iVOD / 160952

Field Value
IVOD_ID 160952
IVOD_URL https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160952
日期 2025-05-05
會議資料.會議代碼 委員會-11-3-36-15
會議資料.會議代碼:str 第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議
會議資料.屆 11
會議資料.會期 3
會議資料.會次 15
會議資料.種類 委員會
會議資料.委員會代碼[0] 36
會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] 司法及法制委員會
會議資料.標題 第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議
影片種類 Clip
開始時間 2025-05-05T11:44:15+08:00
結束時間 2025-05-05T12:00:23+08:00
影片長度 00:16:08
支援功能[0] ai-transcript
video_url https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38e90b73e994f9b731141fd9ac8a7e4e7d3e2c5f8a9bba8e627b44cbce2319d1543d5268b71a667c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8
委員名稱 張啓楷
委員發言時間 11:44:15 - 12:00:23
會議時間 2025-05-05T09:00:00+08:00
會議名稱 立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議(事由:邀請總統府秘書長、國家安全會議秘書長、國家安全局、外交部、大陸委員會,並再次邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「近期連環爆發總統府、國家安全會議、外交部遭共諜滲透及忠誠安全查核不足,導致國家機敏資訊外洩,提出檢討報告及相關防制措施之預算執行情形」進行專題報告,並備質詢。 【5月5日及7日兩天一次會】)
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transcript.whisperx[0].start 18.976
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transcript.whisperx[0].text 請鎮部長叫陳局長麻煩鎮部長陳局長委員好剛才吳思堯委員一直在說我們這次是國安會期嘛國安會期最近民進黨的共諜案連環報敵人就在本能寺啊那吳思堯講得這麼重要保證叫囚定
transcript.whisperx[1].start 48.82
transcript.whisperx[1].end 51.062
transcript.whisperx[1].text 你們有沒有像在辦那個連署案一樣有沒有去大搜索大搜押共諜案應該比共諜案跟這個死人連署哪一個比較重都很重要的案件情則差很多嘛對不對共諜案如果涉國安法幾年
transcript.whisperx[2].start 78.831
transcript.whisperx[2].end 93.701
transcript.whisperx[2].text 七年 七年對不對 如果是發展組織 七年以上啊 七年以上 對啊課長文書勒 課長是五年以下一個重罪 一個輕罪啊 你們有辦嗎你們有共諜案 連環報 八字不通話 統幹單文問你你們有傳訊游錫坤 有傳訊吳釗燮有傳釋 傳訊你餘諜嗎
transcript.whisperx[3].start 105.558
transcript.whisperx[3].end 131.813
transcript.whisperx[3].text 你們有去大搜索嗎 有去那邊加或者是總統府 國安局 國安會或者是外交部有押嗎 有押任何一個人嗎爭吵不公開齁 我跟委員報告齁反正這是個案的問題 我沒辦法去做一個回答這麼多就是通案囉 也是一個案喔那不是有羈押的 羈押的不少人了嗎有羈押的 像吳尚偉等的有被羈押了嗎那這些老闆 這些老闆他的住所沒有一個有被傳嗎
transcript.whisperx[4].start 133.528
transcript.whisperx[4].end 147.105
transcript.whisperx[4].text 這個我沒辦法去回答這個問題完全這個這個案件依照案件的一個證據收證的程度我相信檢察官他會做整個一個案件的一個偵查這個計畫所以我沒辦法幫你回答這個問題你很負責任何講好啦 吳釗燮好了我沒辦法
transcript.whisperx[5].start 150.088
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transcript.whisperx[5].text 吳釗燮涉及的 來 來 等一下有沒有去他家裡搜索過 等一下 等一下有沒有去外交部搜索過我們要去干涉指揮檢察官去要搜索哪一個地點 要搜索哪一個對象那這是一個個案的一個問題 而且檢察官這麼多就是一個通案喔 而且你現在在這不是通案啦 這是個案啦五個 我問你這五個 我問你 來來 保證人 我問你
transcript.whisperx[6].start 172.108
transcript.whisperx[6].end 192.385
transcript.whisperx[6].text 那五個案子你有任何去搜索任何人的這些涉案的這些人的家裡我想這個檢察認為案件有必要的話而且不是檢察說哪一個就說哪一個法院還要再法官還要再審核嘛那我想這個大家都已經大家都清楚的事情嘛這個也不是我當部長我沒辦法去
transcript.whisperx[7].start 193.306
transcript.whisperx[7].end 214.459
transcript.whisperx[7].text 去指示檢查說你要收哪一個哪一個你要辦哪一個我沒辦法去干涉介入指導的個案的一個偵辦嘛但是我想說共諜案當然我們要嚴辦這是一個通案但是我們想是哪個個案你要辦到誰對啊你嚴辦你看這些相關的人都在外面趴趴走啊也沒有看到你辦啊還有嚴辦的話不然我們怎麼會收押呢這個不認為積壓的必要就收押了嘛你看國民黨這樣罵髒話罵髒話一關一關一關起來
transcript.whisperx[8].start 218.642
transcript.whisperx[8].end 225.549
transcript.whisperx[8].text 結果你看這些人有辦嗎 民眾會有判斷的啦 為什麼會出現 辦懶不辦綠 辦小不辦大我問你一個 四月二十六日 有二十五萬人上街頭 你知道他們在抗議什麼抗議的訴求 主要訴求是什麼 二十萬人上了街頭
transcript.whisperx[9].start 243.595
transcript.whisperx[9].end 270.507
transcript.whisperx[9].text 那天主要的抗議的訴求是什麼?人民為什麼怒火?我想上場都有他自己的想法啦這個訴求你都不重視民意嗎?有不同的訴求我沒有去做這樣的特別去研究這些那天主要啊反對獨裁的最重要那天最熱的就是司法不公啦我給你看民調不是只有人民用腳這個表態那麼多人出來怒火看看最新民調
transcript.whisperx[10].start 273.514
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transcript.whisperx[10].text 57.9%的民眾認為政治力介入了檢調機關的辦案57.6%認為政治力介入了司法案件59.3%認為政府譴責性辦案
transcript.whisperx[11].start 290.885
transcript.whisperx[11].end 306.682
transcript.whisperx[11].text 所以委員你也不要叫我說要去叫起來辦哪一個人啦我認為這個就不是你看了我們就覺得很沒有面子你看了這三個民調你就是叫我說你要辦哪一個辦哪一個辦哪一個我認為這個是我沒有叫你辦哪一個我叫你通案
transcript.whisperx[12].start 307.463
transcript.whisperx[12].end 322.756
transcript.whisperx[12].text 你在辦這個指引連署的時候你這麼大力你在大搜手大搜押我這邊沒有看到你該有的動作這兩個都是通 兩個這麼多這麼多案子啊不要保證我現在問你啦不是給他二十五萬人上街啦你看到這三個民調你有覺得連上很無光嗎愧對你的職責嗎你是發不保證欸這民調你不覺得
transcript.whisperx[13].start 334.546
transcript.whisperx[13].end 362.503
transcript.whisperx[13].text 檢調那麼辛苦在捍衛我們人權跟法治給個人民一下對你們的觀感是這樣子說委員檢調可以我部長怎麼去介入呢不是介入你領導你當法務部長你看到這個沒有難過嗎你沒有做一些改革嗎沒有反省嗎那你認為是檢調就要偵辦這些犯罪難道是還要再分不同的這些這個可以辦那個不應該辦他沒有這種事情反正有涉及犯罪都該辦嘛
transcript.whisperx[14].start 367.464
transcript.whisperx[14].end 381.432
transcript.whisperx[14].text 59.3%認為你正譜就是選擇性辦案但我不曉得這個民調是怎樣當然可以檢討啦這美麗島電子報啊這兩個禮拜是最熱門的新聞耶最重要是你到底從裡面得到一些反省跟檢討法定 什麼叫做選擇性辦案
transcript.whisperx[15].start 386.363
transcript.whisperx[15].end 397.531
transcript.whisperx[15].text 我們沒有選擇性辦案 凡是有涉及犯罪性...人民就是這樣認為嘛 對不對那這個問題記不具體政治力有沒有介入檢調機關辦案這個題目還不夠清楚嗎好 來 我們繼續來談一個你這段時間在辦的啊死亡連署我怎麼說
transcript.whisperx[16].start 411.877
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transcript.whisperx[16].text 跟這個共諜案比起來一個大一個小第二個來看一段話這是以前做法官的時候的李敬榮現在中選會主委李敬榮說的他說啦雖然我有偽造文書但是你們不要擔心因為沒有實質傷害所以我不會有罪這個是這段時間你們在大搜手在大搜押這些往生者幽靈靈所這很多人在提醒你的大砲打學長輕罪
transcript.whisperx[17].start 442.418
transcript.whisperx[17].end 444.302
transcript.whisperx[17].text 你看李靖遠為什麼這樣講李靖遠為什麼這樣講他能產生什麼實質上的傷害
transcript.whisperx[18].start 454.047
transcript.whisperx[18].end 476.642
transcript.whisperx[18].text 這個死亡連署的這種 就像我講說死人不會從你爬出來再做一個連署啦那我是認為啦 我認為 反制和涉及犯罪就該辦所以大院的委員該辦是不是有個比例延遲 法治國基本的比例延遲是不是被你迫害了延遲不死 這嚴重違反 違反侵蝕民主政治的基石所以這個要延辦
transcript.whisperx[19].start 477.883
transcript.whisperx[19].end 492.029
transcript.whisperx[19].text 我想這個大院委員都是有志一統就是把那個那個那個 你是說不保證啦講法 不要破壞法治保證來來來 保證我問你一下你現在用的是第200 刑法 委員你的意思是叫我不要再去叫檢討說委託委員都不要辦嗎 是不是這樣
transcript.whisperx[20].start 493.49
transcript.whisperx[20].end 516.002
transcript.whisperx[20].text 你一直所有犯罪都辦啊可是你大小總有分啊現在人民為什麼有那麼多說你是選擇性辦案你共諜案也不辦大的案子不辦共諜怎麼辦如果沒有不辦那怎麼可能會被收押呢而且辦案都不分檔案嘛你一直繞在那個繞在那幾個五個五個案子對不對押了四個人一個人二十萬交保出去人民都笑你們的人民在笑我們的司法這共諜案啊比這個幽靈連署還要輕欸
transcript.whisperx[21].start 523.479
transcript.whisperx[21].end 532.921
transcript.whisperx[21].text 更重要來 萬鵬尼 你是 萬鵬尼你用刑法第210條 偽造文書版嘛 對不對他的要件是什麼偽造文書要成立的要件是什麼偽造編造他人之私生什麼 損害於什麼之他人啊損害於公眾跟個人好 那請問 請問剛才 李敬榮是要說你再看一次李敬榮講的話
transcript.whisperx[22].start 553.869
transcript.whisperx[22].end 576.822
transcript.whisperx[22].text 他偽造文書李部長 李委員那個主委他當時這個背景我不清楚這1985年 你說1985年4月的一個發言我不曉得是哪個個案 這個我不清楚大搜手他 大搜押他嗎這我沒有辦法對一個我不清楚的個案表示任何意見
transcript.whisperx[23].start 578.41
transcript.whisperx[23].end 581.619
transcript.whisperx[23].text 如果就他用的這個刑法第210條要損害於公眾跟個人嘛
transcript.whisperx[24].start 586.36
transcript.whisperx[24].end 605.029
transcript.whisperx[24].text 那你連署你的互義證如果連署沒有損害公眾跟他人嗎這個嚴重影響 嚴重侵蝕民主政治的基石真的選舉可以去用作票作假嗎我想全民是沒辦法去接受的先不要講輕罪跟重罪來來來 我問你一個重點來來來你的連署要不要經過互義證系統的這個檢核會不會塞掉
transcript.whisperx[25].start 615.697
transcript.whisperx[25].end 626.549
transcript.whisperx[25].text 你連署完之後包括罷免吳思瑤的這些人他第一個拿到送到中選會要做什麼違照文書本來就是集成犯了嘛你只要違照他們的署押這個就是發生損害了嘛你的護意證系統會剔除掉嘛對不對有損害嗎
transcript.whisperx[26].start 635.595
transcript.whisperx[26].end 657.738
transcript.whisperx[26].text 怎麼會沒損害 又假冒假冒了你的名字去叫我想這個孫生損害這個事只要圍繞他女兒的鼠丫一層就是會出生損害啦連部長你問一下幕僚亂講法律怎麼這樣規定的你自身損害他的那個你問一下幕僚這樣會不好意思會讓人家笑話 張偉不要打插話不是 我怕部長讓人家笑話啦
transcript.whisperx[27].start 659.462
transcript.whisperx[27].end 671.593
transcript.whisperx[27].text 在這邊是全民直播喔 全民都在看喔我剛剛跟你講 第一個我拿了李進隆的案例給你看第二個我是就法認法跟你講刑務法第210條 更重要的我們的中選會 我們的互義證系統是要篩選的你如果有死人連署 篩選就剔除了嘛 對不對有對連署發生影響嗎這個案子會成立嗎 例如說吳思瑤那邊吳思瑤那邊的如果有死亡連署你後來會照這還有各自法的問題嘛
transcript.whisperx[28].start 688.353
transcript.whisperx[28].end 691.415
transcript.whisperx[28].text 什麼司法問題你救法論法你這個問題要不要去補救這個會不會是這個案本來就是我從民調還有二十萬人上街頭一直跟你講到法律的這個問題連民進黨啊民進黨的人都高喊林黛嬅說政治啊干預了司法司法又去干預了這個初選然後呢民進黨政府下指導旗司法介入
transcript.whisperx[29].start 719.841
transcript.whisperx[29].end 739.295
transcript.whisperx[29].text 斑斑可考虎鑿斑斑 你看你有沒有聽到民進黨的辭職令上面說國民黨這個事情是系統性的組織犯罪是系統性的組織犯罪嗎你目前去搜索用的是什麼罪你壓人用什麼 有用系統性組織犯罪嗎 有沒有
transcript.whisperx[30].start 743.007
transcript.whisperx[30].end 767.336
transcript.whisperx[30].text 這個案件是檢查在偵辦中會涉及到其他的一個犯罪我想我想這個這個我沒辦法去救個案的隊去去做一個報告你那麼多案子那是不是林佑昌講的系統性的組織犯罪我問你一個最明確的郭民眾正在做直播說禮拜三啊現在搜索過台北市黨部新北市黨部台南市黨部禮拜三要去搜索大搜索國民黨
transcript.whisperx[31].start 769.845
transcript.whisperx[31].end 791.885
transcript.whisperx[31].text 這個是一個個案有沒有看到會搜索那個地點那個檢察會申請法院來核發這是另狀主義的嘛如果說可不可以說有沒有必要性這個不是檢察說了就直接就有辦法去執行的這還要經過法院的一個審的開法院開搜索票我們依照法院開的說法去做執行的嘛
transcript.whisperx[32].start 793.581
transcript.whisperx[32].end 817.299
transcript.whisperx[32].text 而且司法法院本來就是獨立的嘛那怎麼會司法介入呢 那個政治介入呢 黨政黨介入呢所以民眾從民調裡面 20萬人的上街頭吶喊還有民眾的民調的對你們的提醒跟警示 你完全都沒有感覺你都沒有覺得說你們要好好做個檢討要去反省嗎我用一個最具體的做一個總結好了 包括調查局局長跟部長
transcript.whisperx[33].start 819.522
transcript.whisperx[33].end 835.642
transcript.whisperx[33].text 那麼多的民眾說你們 選擇性辦案我聽到人們啊 到目前為止中選會告發了他告發了國民黨跟 國民黨去罷免民進黨的民進黨去罷免國民黨 對不對我聽到那百分之九 五比零嘛 對不對
transcript.whisperx[34].start 837.165
transcript.whisperx[34].end 865.388
transcript.whisperx[34].text 你說 你說你們會證明你們不會選擇性辦案都辦啊 因為委員沒有注意到新聞對啦 五比零嘛 五比零的新聞都辦嘛不要啊 現在多少都辦了 台中的部分你可能沒有注意到新聞 都辦現在幾比幾幾比幾 具體我現在手上11比1啦 對不對沒有沒有民進黨現在辦了 基隆還辦哪裡不止不止不止台中喔 兩個是不是然後基隆 基隆 你看 你有收手嗎
transcript.whisperx[35].start 868.584
transcript.whisperx[35].end 891.871
transcript.whisperx[35].text 基隆你有搜索嗎不是啊 搜索是為了要保全證據對啊 現在國民黨像你這些十幾個地方都被你搜索民進黨的沒有搜索 用約談的方式回來一兩個小時還請回所以人民才會說你選擇性辦案嘛我想具體的個案的內容我沒辦法跟你說明但是都辦了 都辦了
transcript.whisperx[36].start 894.307
transcript.whisperx[36].end 913.325
transcript.whisperx[36].text 人民的眼睛是血亮的不要輕忽不要看低台灣人民的水準已經那麼清楚公不公正人民會做判斷我已經跟你講了11比2上次5比0然後你辦國民黨是大收手大收押再這樣繼續下去我跟你講民調還會繼續再掉
transcript.whisperx[37].start 914.929
transcript.whisperx[37].end 943.488
transcript.whisperx[37].text 你們的歷史定會出很大問題你們對尤其說的剪掉剪掉人眼嗎我想在這個過程裡面檢察官跟調查官都是依法依法這個來公正的執法這個我們非常非常有信心這個委員謝謝委員的施法有他的天平啦人民心中也有一把尺啦人民隨時在幫你們打分數啦希望下次你們分數可以升高我最後做一個總結啦請一起保定 決定我一直捍衛司法的正義不要再受到任何政治的干預
transcript.whisperx[38].start 947.309
transcript.whisperx[38].end 963.696
transcript.whisperx[38].text 維護公平的這個中立不要為特定的政黨服務嚴守司法的分際不枉法不濫權人民心中有一把尺人民眼睛也是血亮的大家都盯著你們在看期待你們去聽得起考驗了謝謝