| IVOD_ID |
160944 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160944 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-05T09:32:51+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-05T09:57:19+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:24:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38e90b73e994f9b7ef4b94772cb4be127d3e2c5f8a9bba8e6af5cb2c6aef9296097c41cf62873e4d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳宗憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:32:51 - 09:57:19 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請總統府秘書長、國家安全會議秘書長、國家安全局、外交部、大陸委員會，並再次邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「近期連環爆發總統府、國家安全會議、外交部遭共諜滲透及忠誠安全查核不足，導致國家機敏資訊外洩，提出檢討報告及相關防制措施之預算執行情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【5月5日及7日兩天一次會】） |
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我們麻煩部長還有調查局局長委員早 |
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局長 部長兩位早安我想我今天問的東西我已經公開了講好幾天了所以這絕對不會是突襲兩位我想日前在調查局還有宜蘭地檢署在搜索宜蘭縣黨部的時候他發生一個狀況就是他把 |
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非本案應該扣押的東西帶回了我想部長知道這件事嗎 局長知道這件事嗎都知道嘛 對不對好 那我來跟各位報告第一個宜蘭地檢署在我當天晚上啊 跟兩位報告 我當天晚上電話接不完啦因為他們要去要回這些資料因為隔天已經是最後一天了 必須要趕快去領表了但是 |
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63.976 |
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當時中選會一開始是跟領銜人他們說如果沒有公文債而且領銜人的身份證還有他的委託書當時也都在限調站沒有就不能夠領所以當時他們熱鍋上螞蟻一直在不知道該怎麼處理這件事情 |
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我請他們依照正常的程序趕快跟地檢署說結果地檢署第一份新聞稿發說沒有扣這個東西好然後第二份新聞稿就是我們在一直跟他講他說沒有結果後來我們還拜託記者去跟他說然後這時候才說有然後有了以後呢他發明了一個我從來沒有看過的東西啦我先想請教部長啊部長請問一下我國齁那個扣押物品的扣押有拿幾種部長知道嗎 |
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好 沒關係 部長 請看這個PowerPoint就除了一般我們對於搜索票上面已經載明應該扣押哪些東西之外我們還有附帶扣押 另案扣押 還有非附屬於搜索的扣押好 那我想請教部長 回到上一頁我想請教部長宜蘭地檢署新聞稿說 |
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發現 經過向調查官反映的時候發現與本案相關查扣資料並同帶回調查站請問部長 並同帶回是屬於哪一種扣押這就是扣押嗎 可謂證據獲得沒收拾單了是就可以的不是 他屬於哪一種扣押 並同帶回是扣押嗎這個帶回是扣押 這個還沒有扣押嗎這個搜索到的東西不一定 這個還沒有有在搜索扣押的清冊裡面嘛 |
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這個要請調查局他們來回答請調查局回答包委員你指的這件文件當時是有在搜索扣押的清冊裡面而且這個扣押的現場是有檢察官帶隊的這不是重點憑什麼去查扣跟本案無關的東西甚至他公文上面一望即知這跟一階連署有什麼關 |
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請問一下局長我們可以去查扣非收索票上面所載跟本案無關顯然是另案而且跟犯罪無關的東西我們可以把它扣回去嗎請問一下什麼叫做並同待回這是屬於刑訴訟法的哪一個條文我想委員可能對這件公文的內涵不是很清楚因為偵查不公開的問題所以我只能很隆重的告訴你這件公文出現在那個現場就是一個問號 |
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214.484 |
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237.915 |
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對 所以當時檢察官跟調查官要扣押 局長這份公文出現在現場問號是什麼 你跟我講清楚法律有沒有規定不可以有這個東西出現在現場這件公文就不是搜索 當時這個搜索現場的授文人 授文者就不是這個搜索現場的所以檢察官覺得這個應該要釐清 他把它扣押回來這太離譜了吧 局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
240.416 |
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264.071 |
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有什麼規定說這一份公文一份公文合法的公文我不能夠放在哪一個地點我國法律有這樣規定嗎所以檢察官他需要釐清所以檢察官他需要釐清啊局長你講這個太外行了喔你不要把我當外行人看我一直在這邊跟各位報告如果我今天外行人你來跟我講這個就算了我聽不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
265 |
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那我今天在 好 那如果照你這樣講那限調站裡面有非常多也不是限調站的東西 你們為什麼不全部查扣回家然後第二個我想請問一下什麼叫做併同待回需不需要立法院幫各位修法把併同待回四個字修進刑事訴訟法裡面沒有 我想他那個併同待回其實他這件事有在扣押清澈裡面的啦整個程序是合法的 我跟委員報告這一點你放心所以今天 |
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293.703 |
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310.884 |
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今天不能扣押的東西我愛扣就扣只要在扣押物品清單裡面就可以嗎這個局長你的意思是這樣對不對這個檢察官他在現場認定啊檢察官他在現場你現在推給檢察官就對了不是啊這個好那檢察官他有帶隊的法務部長請問一下檢察官帶隊就可以隨便愛扣就扣嗎部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
312.426 |
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335.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我不是不懂,麻煩部長說實話,麻煩局長說實話現場的話,那個搜索的,如果檢察當場認為有關聯性的當然我們就可以扣押,就可以先待會兒釐清嘛但是這個後來沒有查過,這個新聞稿也發放給律師來簽收了嘛所以這個並沒有查扣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
335.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
354.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
而且這個是在那個搜索的現場這個是好像那個裡面的你真的確定部長已經多少次我們在這裡的質詢後來回去法官檢察官看到覺得很可笑你今天刑事訴訟法我剛已經給部長我剛已經給你看了我國刑事訴訟法的查扣的方式有哪幾種嘛那後來這個認為說這個就經過一個解釋我們認為說這個檢察認為說沒有查過的必要那就發凡了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
363.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
386.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第一個我先跟各位說明我認為把這個東西扣走這個就屬於一個不合法的扣押這第一個第二個即使你今天是一個合法的扣押那為什麼宜蘭地檢署第一份新聞稿說沒有這個事情請問這是怎麼回事為什麼第一份新聞稿跟第二份新聞稿的內容不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
387.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
412.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個釐清了嘛 這個釐清了所以才發一個新聞 說調查官將該子公文交律師來領回我不知道我國現在的制度可以荒謬的解釋成這樣我愛怎麼解釋就怎麼解釋了這個沒有什麼說愛怎麼解釋 部長 部長我尊重你是前輩但是法律我們念的是同一套如果照這樣子的話 那以後搜索我現場我愛扣什麼就扣什麼我就說我要回家看 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
413.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
438.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
是可以這樣嗎然後我再跟各位報告我國刑事訴訟法沒有併同待回這四個字你跟我講併同待回是屬於扣押的哪一種請你告訴我這個是放在整個一個文件裡面的嗎是放在整個文件裡面的不能這樣講啊 放在文件裡面這個怎麼會是這樣講呢部長我聽不懂欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
440.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
465.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
扣押的意思就是跟本案有關的犯罪物證我們才能扣押嘛所以我即使去一個地點搜索如果我今天去總統府搜索我要搜第幾局的東西然後我可以把總統辦公室的東西一起扣走嗎這我絕對反對到底的嘛那一樣的邏輯是這樣啊或者是我去總統府哪一個單位搜索我可以把他上面總統寫給他的東西我一起扣走嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
466.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
478.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對不對哪一個同仁採購涉嫌違法我就把總統給他的另外一個公文一起帶走嗎可為證據獲得沒收之物當然就是可以扣押嘛那這個檢討在當場認為這個有關聯性的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
482.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
500.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個是可以當觀念性的一個證物那後來整個一個調查後釐清了沒有扣押的證文認為可以釐清 那我們就報告部長 報告部長如果你要這樣子解釋刑事訴訟法那我們國內刑事訴訟法在強制處分那一章可能要完全大修了就檢察官可以要怎麼樣 要扣什麼就扣什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
501.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
520.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
尤其是那一份公文上面清清楚楚寫的是什麼我跟你講啦你今天當事人要求發還你第一份新聞稿跟第二份新聞稿講的內容就不一樣不要當大家傻子看不懂上面寫什麼我第一份新聞稿看到檢方這樣發我還想說不可能檢方不會騙人啊我還跟他們說他們是不是弄錯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
522.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
543.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
結果他們還拜託記者去跟檢察官講之後才會有第二份公文出來我沒有辦法理解什麼叫做併同待回啦所以我現在能想到是不是我們還要幫兩個單位去修法否則我不知道怎麼去解釋併同待回這件事最後還好意思寫說嚴守法定程序這我更覺得要是我今天出了這個包我就出來道個歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
544.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
560.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那另外我也想跟部長講一下跟局長講一下如果說今天你查扣了已經放進扣押物品清單了然後你今天把證物袋打開你有沒有進行正常的啟封程序有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
561.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
584.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
如果沒有的話就便宜措施打開就發還嗎所以這個都請各位去了解你今天在辦的一個案子如果已經高度爭議了那是不是程序上面要更嚴謹我在這邊也跟各位報告一件事我們每個人都會出包我們自己當檢察官的時候有時候程序不小心也會錯但是錯的時候你就出來道個歉說這邊不小心扣到我趕快發還 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
585.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
611.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我覺得這樣子大家國人都可以接受每個人都一定會有不小心弄錯的時候但是如果不小心弄錯了又硬拗自己沒有錯硬拗這個屬於法定程序我跟你講如果我今天在當檢察官我去你家搜索愛扣什麼就扣什麼我去搜兒子的東西我把他爸媽的存摺全部一起扣回家慢慢看把他爸媽手機一起扣回家你看有沒有這個狀況另外我再跟部長和局長報告另外一件事情但這個東西有很多人在抱怨 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
612.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
632.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
說當天去現場的時候有一些人他們的手機他根本跟本案無關他只是義工而已手機就被到場的調查官要求拿出來給調查官看然後在那邊看了一個小時之後把他還給當事人那我想請問一下這個的法律依據是什麼他不是搜索扣押物喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
634.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
649.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那今天如果現場的工友在那邊打掃是不是也叫工友把手機拿來我看一下裡面寫寫了什麼然後看完之後我看 看得很高興看完之後還給他我請問一下這個法律依據在哪裡好吧 兩位答不出來我跟委員報告齁 這個訴訟法112112條齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
663.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
678.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
因為這個法官有核定的一個搜索票的內容來指引搜索那122條對第三人第三人身體物件電子記錄其他處所有相應的可信為被告犯罪嫌因扣押置物存在違憲的搜索資所以這個那你問這些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
681.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
702.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個是現場嗎你現場好那今天這樣講就我剛剛講的那個例子我今天如果總統府某一個人涉貪譬如說總統府有共諜案我去那裡辦共諜案我請總統手機交出來給我看因為我懷疑你是犯罪嫌疑人內亂外犯罪我一樣可以辦你我可以這樣嗎那這樣子的話我國司法不就無限制了這個還有133那個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
706.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
723.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那個一三一條進行搜索的情況也可以可以直接進行搜索嘛凡是可為證據或得莫受當然都得依法扣押之嘛這整次進行搜索整次後來是算是在懲罰法院的問題而已嘛今天出來抱怨那些都是現場的義工他可能就在那邊打掃然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
724.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
748.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
調查局的人到現場就叫他們把手機交出來而且非常多人交出來之後手機就在那邊讓他們看了一個小時看完之後也沒有進行任何的程序沒有扣押沒有把這些人簽為被告手機就還他那今天人家不滿的是這個如果兩位長官你們覺得這樣行為是對的那請 沒關係今天全程錄影公開然後我再講另外一個雖然最高檢說 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
756.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
771.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
最高檢說今天我點出來那些東西他說傷害司法違行但我跟各位兩位報告你們再這樣操作下去才是傷害司法違行我今天我講的每一個東西都是告訴國人你在行政訴訟法上面你有什麼權益你在接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
773.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
799.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
執行機關 司法機關調查搜索的時候你可以主張什麼這個是我國刑事訴訟法我們保障每個人民的基本權利耶民進黨不是最愛講基本人權嗎我國憲法的基本人權明明白白規範在那裡耶我有非常多的自由我有免於恐懼的自由就我今天在面對調查官的時候我跟本案完全無關我是義工我到現場掃地的我到現場整理花圃的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
801.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
827.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
然後在那邊叫我把手機交出來給他看然後他也沒有把我簽為被告我也不是犯罪嫌疑人東西也沒有把我扣走你要是把我查扣回去看我還無話可說現場看一看一個小時後發環這非常多地方人都遇到這種事情如果兩位認為這樣是對的好沒關係 那就這樣我在這邊只是跟各位報告我在當司法人員的一天我總是要求每一個人要嚴守程序正義 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
829.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
856.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
因為陳俊正是死的改天回過頭來當事人來檢舉我的時候我無話可說啊因為那不涉及主觀判斷嘛如果對於宜蘭的這個做法這樣齁我真的覺得我不知道兩位回去你們面對你們所帶領的那些同仁不知道是怎麼樣我從來不覺得說你可以現場隨便你要查過什麼就查過什麼我要人家交出手機就交出手機 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
858.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
861.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
士林北投吳思瑤罷免的那個領銜的賴怡任 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
863.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
889.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
他的女朋友的手機放在家裡然後他調查官還叫賴以任去問他女朋友的手機號碼密碼幾號叫他問到要打開來看其實這個東西在法律上面都有問題除非你認為他女朋友跟他是共同證犯也是犯罪嫌疑人之一那我沒有話說但你今天你不能這樣做啊我今天在這邊希望替國人要求的就是一個程序正義國人在接受公權力的執行的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
890.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
909.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
他有法律上合法的權利我絕對支持國家偵辦犯罪就像這次偽造文書不管別人怎麼講不管人家說我什麼我就說偽造文書犯罪就是犯罪該辦就是該辦但是要注意一下你的比例原則對不對你的平等性原則對不對你辦男辦女邏輯完全不一樣我就沒有辦法理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
911.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
918.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
局長我請問一下最近這幾個案子包括北檢的案子請問一下你們檢察官在指揮偵辦這個案子的時候請問一下涉犯的法條是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
932.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
956.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
最近這個罷免聯署的案件目前初步看起來就是偽造文書嘛然後個人資料保護法就偽造文書跟個人資料保護法嘛對不對因為具體的偵查的細節要檢查官才知道但是目前非常的清楚就是偽造文書以及個人資料保護法那我想請問一下調查局偽造文書 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
957.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
974.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
跟各支你們是屬於你們組織法裡面第二條裡面的哪一個範圍哪一個執掌範圍你們組織法第二條有好幾種執掌範圍是請問是哪一種如果是在這個有跟選舉罷免有關的部分是屬於我們廉政工作的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
976.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1000.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
廉政工作範圍嗎跟選舉罷免有關的就是廉政工作範圍過往都是在經濟嘛如果他單純是偽造文書的話是屬於經濟犯罪防治處的業務如果是在選舉罷免的這個階段的話我現在有一個問題嘛檢察官各地發的新聞稿到目前為止他涉犯的法條就兩個偽造文書以及違反各自法這兩個東西我剛剛請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1006.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1017.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那你們這個偽造文書以前那個績效合分怎麼算這個就要看看我們業務處他的規定好沒關係這邊講不出來那沒有關係好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1021.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1047.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我再請教你一個問題就是說你們最近真的弄到我已經覺得不知道該怎麼去面對你們請問一下局長你擔任基層調查官多久三十年那立案的標準是只要有情資就可以立案還是要有一定的證據當然要有一定程度的證據那立案是誰立案 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1048.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1074.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
各佔的立案者是誰?副主任嘛對不對也不一定喔有些是授權案件有些是非授權案件看案件的類型那立案的情況也很多有時候是檢察官交查的對不一定是我們主動發言根據你的經驗那個績效制度是不是有存在的必要這才能激勵基層辦案當然大家都要有一定的一個標準嘛對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1075.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1099.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
好所以我在這邊跟各位報告就是說所謂的績效等等不管在民間企業或政府企業它其實關係到每個人的升遷還有考績我想這個大概沒有問題嘛一部分對好這當然是一部分啦我們還會考核它的那個那個青年度啦個性啦私生活等等這個我可以理解啦那所以說我今天我要請教你一個問題既然 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1105.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1121.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
好 那我想請教你一個問題這一次齁 這一次你所謂的幽靈聯署這個齁賈官他認為涉犯的法療是偽造文書跟違反個人資料保護法但是你們這個有關績效的評比你們是放在哪一個項目之下我剛剛有跟委員報告就是屬於廉政業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1123.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1128.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
今天檢察官說得非常清楚今天這些行為涉犯的叫做偽造文書以及違反個人資料保護法結果調查局用什麼來來合分給績效大家知道嗎他們用 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1146.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1170.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
用選舉查查為什麼過往調查官在選舉查的期間都像發了瘋一樣不管藍綠的選舉都像發了瘋一樣一直下去殺一直下去砍在選舉查查的期間因為選舉查查的和分續獎都比較高而且時間短他不像一般案件他要辦非常久才能夠拿得到他的組織才拿得到和分他個人才拿得到續獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1171.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1194.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
所以說選舉查查其間 很多人就等四年一次的地方選舉因為立委跟總統的選舉不好查所以他們很多調查官一直以來都在等這四年一次的地方選舉然後在這邊去拿到積分 拿到續獎因為這個東西跟他升遷有非常大的關聯性但是這一次不是 這一次我個人看到的結果是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1197.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1208.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
各位長官 各位司法的長官為了要讓這些調查官瘋狂的去查辦所有連連署的案件你把他認為這叫選舉查查案件然後我也跟兩位報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1211.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1228.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
請兩位知道一件事情我在這個體系做了20年我非常多好朋友非常多調查官我都認識他們會跟我們講很多事情他非常多事情不敢跟長官報告長官要求他什麼他也不得不做甚至檢察官有檢查一體制檢查一體制上級交辦什麼檢察官就必須要辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1229.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1252.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
還有檢查機制的存在調查站有上下隸屬的問題所以基層都不得不聽大家的指揮去辦但是他們心中有非常多的怨恨所以這段時間有不同的調查站一直跟我講同樣的問題就是今天這個案子連中選會都出來說新法有關偽造文書的部分跟這一次的連署適用舊法無關 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1253.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1273.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
無關 所以這次甲官所承辦的案子沒有關係到選舉罷免法但是調查局要希望調查官下去瘋狂的辦這個案子他把他的續講改為選舉塔塔的續講這就是今天問題的所在 我必須要告訴國人就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1276.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1288.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我知道在你們一定會講一個東西啦你說郭台銘那個案子的時候也有怎麼樣啦問你郭台銘那個連鎖的時候他是涉及到用錢去買他是有行賄的問題兩個完全不一樣我可以就你的問題說明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1291.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1308.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
好第一點我們針對這一次的連署罷免沒有任何的專案然後績效的部分就是回歸到選舉查查因為我想你也理解嘛這個在選舉罷免的階段的一些犯罪的行為當然就是選舉查查但是沒有特別加成也沒有特別的優待這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1310.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1331.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
你會不會講這些在誤導國人我到現在此刻為止我到現在此刻為止我沒有跟你談加成喔我只是跟你講說你把一般刑案檢察官的一般刑案灌去選舉罷免法案件我跟你說明我們調查局內部的內控的做法嘛那我舉個例子來講司法詐欺他是詐欺還是司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1332.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1348.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
司法詐欺我們是在廉政案件然後再來一個這個選舉查查的績效不是你講的說很容易拿到然後分數又特別高反而是剛好相反我們選舉查查案件是必須要檢察官有起訴我們才會給績效所以不會說大家瘋狂的去做然後為了升遷局長你講這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1357.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1377.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
就像我講的你們總是講一些讓基層的人聽到之後會當笑話聽的不會不會選舉查的績效很難拿沒錯但是他的誘因就是很大因為他的續獎以他的合分就是誘因很大不然你看每次選舉查期間為什麼大家瘋狂的做我們沒有特別的續獎的規定在這個選舉查查沒有我今天把問題點出來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1379.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1397.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
就很簡單的第一個你去所有我覺得國人都可以去問你所認識的調查官選舉查的分數及選舉查的續講是不是大家時間到就想講很多尤其是比較鄉下的調查站更希望利用四年一次的地方選舉機會好好的去辦選舉罷免案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1399.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1419.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
好 這是第一個 第二個 本次各地監署所發的信用稿它所相關的條文只有刑法以及個人資料保護法但是調查局 貴局竟然可以把它認定它的續講和分是用選罷法案件好 沒關係 你是調查局局長 你是主官你有你的決定權 但是我在這邊就告訴各位國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1425.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1448.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
司法是對付犯罪者 司法不是對付善良百姓我請各位要知道這個點然後另外請不要用這種方式去利誘調查官去辦這種案子這些調查官 基層調查官 基層檢察官都很辛苦他們也希望說能夠得到升遷 能夠得到續獎 大家都是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1449.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1462.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我覺得當長官的 你要有那個肩膀扛下來 任何的壓力你今天做了一個以前沒有的事情以前沒有過的 已經違反法律的平等原則委員你放心啦 我們一定開大門走大路 |