| IVOD_ID |
160881 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160881 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-01T10:52:37+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-01T11:00:31+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:54 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/872e8bbe37846fc08f8ad4776b62665e1fb26350580dc1695144d4d67ecd09c112d65d6394dc0c085ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
徐欣瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:52:37 - 11:00:31 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員陳冠廷等21人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員沈伯洋等17人擬具「國家安全法第十三條及第十三條之一條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員陳冠廷等23人擬具「國家安全法第四條及第八條條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員邱志偉等16人擬具「國家安全法第三條條文修正草案」案。五、審查委員沈伯洋等20人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。六、審查委員王定宇等16人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。七、審查委員沈伯洋等20人擬具「國家安全法第三條、第八條及第十八條條文修正草案」案。八、審查委員陳冠廷等19人擬具「國家安全法增訂第十九條之一條文草案」案。九、審查委員黃捷等16人擬具「國家安全法第二條、第三條及第七條條文修正草案」案。） |
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本席有請法務部黃次長及司法院吳法官好請司法院委員好次長好還有我們吳法官我想保障國家安全應該是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.878 |
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所有国人都应该支持而且也是大家有共识的那我们今天国安法的部分修正草案我们要来审理所以我们当然希望把国安法把它修好 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
38.305 |
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能够把国安法修好让人民有所依循也让执法单位能够知道怎么样执法所以本席在这里要先请教我们法务部跟司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
54.756 |
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| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
本席有看到我們法務部跟司法院的書面意見都很明確的有指出我們這一次的修法的草案內容是有一些文字是不是過於含糊過於籠統所以首先第一個本席想請教有關涉及國家安全涉及國家安全它具體的判斷標準是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
82.501 |
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公共利益的範圍又要如何界定由誰來界定那我想分別請法務部跟司法院來提出你們的簡要的見解是我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
不好意思跟委員報告因為今天所提出來的很多的草案後面都涉及到刑事處罰所以刑罰的部分當然會有檢察機關會指揮司法檢察機關的偵辦然後最後如果起訴的話會由法院來審理所以具體的構成要件的判斷會依照個案的事實在這個程序裡面去確認當然所以每個刑罰的 |
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這個範圍比如說的行為它的構成要件符不符合比例原則跟明確性原則這個就是我們在立法的時候必須要審慎來思考所以構成要件要非常明確您認同吧這也是我們的順便意見指出的那請吳法官報告委員正如委員所說的構成要件明確性確實是很重要的刑法原則所以在本院今天的報告裡面譬如說對於委員陳冠廷的21人的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
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也特別提到說呢如果修正層涉及國家安全或公共利益這個部分含義是非明確所以我們見請釐清又例如說對於委員王定宇等16人所提的這個草案呢本院也特別提到說草案的第7條的第4項有些記載比較簡略的部分那是不是應該要加以序名我們也有特別指摘謝謝委員 |
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好謝謝所以我想這個兩個單位都有這樣的一個具體的意見那所以在我們正式逐條討論修法之前本席想請教司法院是不是可以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
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看一个月还是两个月内可以提出针对这次的这些版本的完整的法律专业的评估意见包括各修法的版本和宪政体制以及司法审查标准的冲突与调和分析 |
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以及具體的修法建議可不可以請司法院看一個月或兩個月內可以嗎提出針對我們這個比較因為我知道你們這次報告都簡單幾頁但是我們給更長的時間針對這個修法的內容是不是可以提出比較具體的修法建議兩個月可以嗎還是一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
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委員的意思就是除了今天的本院的報告之外就是針對今天修法的內容可以更具體的可以嗎兩個月嗎你們看一個月還兩個月可以嗎如果要提出這樣的報告可能比較需要演繹那可否比較長的時間可以可以可以那大概多久 |
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法務部是不是也可以在兩個月內就刑事法制與執行風險評估報告具體的檢討條文的明確性 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
269.734 |
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| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
可执行性我先讲完好不好以及刑度的适当性并且对于侦查与起诉可能产生的执法争议提出具体的建议针对这次的法条修正的草案跟委员报告因为刚才在讨论的过程 |
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我们的口头报告里面都已经有报告针对里面部分的这个条文其实目前行政院已经在盘点当中所以您的意思是说会有行政院版的行政院版预计应该会更久吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
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目前还没有这个明确的期程但是我们已经都在进行会加速来办所以行政院整合的时候都有你们的意见那没问题我们希望有行政院版那最后本席还是想要请教最后因为时间的关系那请问这个两个单位我们至今尚未指定国安法的主管机关那到底谁有权指导事宜 |
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所以這主管機關是行政院嗎還是對跟我們報告過去的慣例是由行政院那因為底下的條文其實分別有不同的部會在負責包含本部內政部跟國防部所以行政院統合嗎對由行政院來統合所以我們的負責的人是行政院長是 |
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因為本席看到在修正案裡面很多有寫到主管機關要怎麼樣怎麼樣所以這個我們還是要確立主管機關好那再來 |
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对 我们整个国安法的修法那我们也要兼顾我们的民主与人权所以国安跟民主人权的平衡点到底在哪里所以我们想要请教你们认为目前一些修正草案的模糊性跟广泛性它是不是存在侵害了人民的言论自由集会结社的自由以及资讯自主权的实质风险 |
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而且行政院和司法院目前審查或評估法案的時候都會有一套明確的人權影響評估機制所以是否能夠進行影響評估 |
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跟委員報告人權影響評估機制這個在院的這個人權的小組裡面事實上是今年年初才這個核定之前都是在試辦那所以這個目前行政院正在翻班刑當中那假設本法案未來 |
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有這個要適用的話 行政委員會指示好最後就是請吳法官就是剛剛本席所說的這次你們看到這次修正草案是不是它中間的這種模糊性廣泛性存在了侵害人民的言論自由集會結社自由以及資訊自主的實質風險簡單回答 |
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報告委員那今天本院提出來是就這個構成要件明確性等等部分可能做的一些建議或者是提出意見那是不是會產生這樣的一個後續的情況呢可能還要看個案來認定謝謝委員好謝謝謝謝兩位 |