| IVOD_ID |
16087 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16087 |
| 日期 |
2024-07-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-23-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-07-10T08:30:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-07-10T13:33:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:02:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302ddf83f7170d9d56c87ad9f551ce5fa921f28aaa308df9ea3730f2f38fe9052579b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-07-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長李孟諺就「TPASS通勤月票辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:15 - 13:33:00 |
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| transcript.pyannote[2249].start |
14541.87659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[2249].end |
14543.68221875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1846.775 |
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1855.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
初期委員已足法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第18次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年7月3日星期三上午10時30分至下午1時17分地點本院紅樓201會議室初期委員陳樹岳等14人列席委員邱志偉等17人列席官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1875.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1897.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
交通部政務次長伍聖元等．主席陳昭吉委員學生報告四項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定討論四項一討論立法院交通委員會競電式深設及後續爭議調閱專案小組運作後續事宜本案由委員林國誠等六人提出提案小組召集人林國誠委員說明提案要指今與會委員進行討論決議一 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1900.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1927.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
造案通過立法院交通委員會競電視深設及後續爭議調閱專案小組及日期停止運作二本決議含資國家通訊傳播委員會通過委員林國成等6人提案一項二審查鐵路法修正草案兩案白案由委員廖先祥說明提案要指交通部政務次長伍聖元等報告後藉由委員陳樹越等16人提出質詢軍警交通部政務次長伍聖元及 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1927.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1946.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
相關人員分別願意答覆決定一、報告及詢談完畢二為林國成等二人所提書面質詢列入紀錄並刊登公報三、委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或為其答覆部分請交通部盡速以書面答覆決議鐵路法修論草案兩案均另折其繼續審查通過臨時提案兩項散會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2020.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2026.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
針對議事錄的確定由委員提出相關提案來請議事人員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2031.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2046.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
臨時提案一案由有關立法院第11屆第1會期第18次全體委員會議一事錄討論事項第一案部分因2024年7月3日之交通司法聯席會議違反立法院各委員會組織法第13條規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2050.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2066.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
建請討論思想第一案．事入暫不予確認．敦請院長召集草野協商．針對該次會議之合法性、適切性．進行確認後再行處理提案人委員陳樹岳等宣讀完畢來,請提案相關委員來做說明有要做說明嗎來,林俊憲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2095.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2101.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
好在座委員有沒有其他意見有沒有其他意見來請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2113.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2132.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
好 謝謝那因為上一次的會議是交通司法聯席會議那今天只有我們交通委員會的委員在場那是不是能夠由交通委員代表上一次的聯席會議去做一個決議本人持保留這個跟淳于的看法這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2139.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2148.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
來請何欣淳委員接下來林國成委員謝謝主席對第一個我想7月3號那一天的交通聯席會議當時候的會議的正當性 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2154.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2168.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
本來就有很多的爭議跟疑慮再加上在那一天開會的過程也有一些爭議跟疑慮所以我是認為我們今天要來成立這個議事錄確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2171.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2172.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
上午交通司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2201.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2222.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
請您過程委員我想今天確定的應該是我提案我們委員會裡面在我們的調查小組我的提案是終止而已所以跟這個聯席會是沒有關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2223.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2243.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
沒有關的我的提案裡面請主席請主席就是我的在交通委員會我是吊業小職本來我們也延到7月16號7月16號所以我的我提案的宗旨是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2245.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2262.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
7月16號以前我們這一次把它終止掉那至於其他聯席會的這些也不在這個此限為什麼要送到那個今天是因為我要終止我們交通委員會成立的調閱小組我提案的本質是這樣跟這個聯席會是無關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2267.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2282.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
不是 我只有今天主席在確認的應該只有交通委員會我終止我的調閱小組結束是這樣怎麼會扯到這裡來呢我提案是這樣而已喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2286.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2311.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我在委員會提的不是聯席會議提的所以我要跟各位委員報告我是提我們交通委員會調閱小組終止運作在交通委員會我只有這個部分啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2316.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2333.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
徐志傑委員、林俊憲委員我想上一次的聯席我們有意見所以我們退席退席之後你們在裡面開什麼坦白講我們並不是那麼的清楚因為一開始我們就認為會有問題所以這個其實既然有爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2339.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2339.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
林俊憲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2364.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2389.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好 這個主席齁我們提朝委協商就是說要確認那一天的會議是有效的因為那一天的會議爭議在於召委沒有經過院會交下來就自己召開聯席會議如果黨團協商認為可以這樣那以後每個召委都可以比照辦理你要確認這樣嘛他讓我也有機會做召委啊我也要可以召開聯席會議啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2391.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2406.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那林國正委員提的就是在那個聯席會議上提的如果不是那我們在我們在協商的時候也再來再把它一併不是不是我是要確認說札委可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2408.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2423.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
沒有經過院會交辦：或者召委員沒有跟院會申請：他就直接召開聯席會議：如果我們草野絕章可以：那大家以後都這樣來照辦了那個競選委員我跟你講大家這內容可以看我是在委員會提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2425.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2452.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
是要終止進電視的調閱小組我們來我們來我們來協商看這個東西把這個程序講清楚不是啦因為我是在我們委員會我只有提這個其他的部分那當然如果是聯合那個那個那個聯審小組那個是要去質疑再質疑我這個是把我這個委員會是大家通過的我因為我們原我們本來是7月16號 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2453.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2472.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以我提的是終止這個運作我們委員會的運作來等一下主席主席林國正委員因為林國正委員的提案你自己寫的來看一下你自己寫的提案你寫的提案就是說在鑒於近電視深色及後續正義調閱小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2474.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2478.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
在立法院交通司法自委員會聯席會議以依據修正後 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2487.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2510.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好 請許智傑委員謝謝 林國昌委員我們看第一 那個會議是一開始聯席會大家有意見嘛剛才林俊賢委員說的就是說我們如果要可以 他們都可以我們不可以 他們都不可以 對不對我們是建立一個立法院的制度啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2511.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2538.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
對,不說你這次朝野協商後就韓院長來主持嘛你如果大家都說可以像之前學生處理的那樣以後大家都可以這樣處理嘛如果不行大家都不行有一個一致的標準跟規則我們不要去說什麼人可以什麼人不行我們立法院有立法院的規則嘛我們是要建立這個規則所以經過朝野協商之後韓院長主持你也不用怕啊如果他說以後可以就大家都可以嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2539.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2564.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
是不是有一個一致的標準你那個會議是我們離席之後講的我們就是對那個聯席不是啊你們有這種疑慮當然我要跟各位報告我是在我們委員會提的我們講道理讓其他委員也聽聽國民黨委員也聽聽啦我們其實是要建立這個制度我們無關說民進黨民眾黨國民黨而是將來召委如果可以這樣子召開臨時會議召開聯席會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2567.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2596.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
每一個召委,不管國民黨、民眾黨、民進黨都可以召開如果不行就通通不要是要讓韓院長來協商這樣子一個議事規則這是大家公平的啦,我們沒有關係什麼董的啦比如說你在我們都離席了,因為我們一年沒收董,你一年可以嘛他要建立一個制度,可以都可以,不可以都不可以所以我覺得後面那個就不要再爭議了,國民黨的委員也參考看看啦,我們是要建立制度的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2597.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2614.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好 我想民進黨委員很明確的就是針對聯席會議的釋法性存有疑義所以說基於在民進黨的精神所以這件事情不應該就是你們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2618.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2638.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
剛聽你們發言跟你們的提案內容是好像兩件不一樣的事情因為我剛想林國成委員已經很清楚了我們那天開會是先開交通司法聯席會議然後當然中間退席怎麼樣那個就是交通司法聯席會議過程的事情之後結束了之後才是我們交通委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2639.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2657.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
自己開會那林國成委員的案子是在交通委員會自己開會的情況下所提出來討論決議的事項所以這部分跟交通司法聯席會議是完全沒有相關的一個提案所以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2660.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2686.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
提案內容我會認為你們可能以為說林國成委員的提案是不是在交通司法聯席會議提出來的並不是林國成委員並不是在交通司法聯席會議提出來的他是在交通委員會提出來的所以說我認為這樣的質疑可能是大家對時間序上或會議流程上面有一些誤解才會提出這樣子的一個提案因為提案的前半段跟後半段兩件事情也是完全不相關的事情以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2690.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2690.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
陳舒悅委員陳舒悅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2709.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2736.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
以依據修正後之立法院職選行使法之規定成立禁電式深涉及後續弊案爭議調查專案小組我們就是對這個有疑慮我們覺得這個在司法性上有問題所以如果說今天林國成委員他提的案就是單純的就是好終止了這個禁電式的這一個專案調查小組他不要去提到說因為這個司法法治委員會的聯席會議這個前因的話我想這樣子會比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2739.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2741.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
其實你看結議我們大家看結議那個內容是在交代而已我們的結議是照案通過立法委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2771.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2775.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
對啦 啊你現在就是 這就太緊張了 我給你解說 我就是在委員會 提 在我們委員會提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2795.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2807.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我覺得在程序上面提案的宗旨才是最重要的所有的討論內容當然民進黨委員對於討論的內容到底有沒有爭議這當然可以討論這應該在做決議的時候做決議之前的討論大家可以討論這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2814.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2832.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們可以在 民進黨的委員可以在民進黨的委員可以在討論林國成委員這一項內容討論提案的時候提出來說林國成委員提出了的一些背景資訊或許有一些疑慮來當作大家要不要贊成這件提案的一個決定的依據但是既然已經決定了討論的 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2836.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2855.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
終止了那所有的討論的內容那這樣子以後如果有任何的會議大家對於討論過程中委員引述的資料如果認為有一些疑義的話那是不是以後這樣子的決議都不算數了那這樣子以後大家都去挑語病那會都開不下去啦你以後的會議確認都不用確認啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2858.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2869.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
黃建豪委員好 謝謝趙偉我跟各位委員的這個說明一下我的立場其實剛剛我們世界委員一直說你們退席退席但是我要先和先續名一下就是說如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2871.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2892.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
貴黨團自始至終覺得上一次的這個司法法制跟交通委員會聯席會議是錯誤的召開那你們就不要出席不是後來退席,因為退席沒有辦法記錄嘛那其實你們也都簽到了也都出席了那場會議那只是讓大家對於開會的議程怎麼開有不同的意見那所以只有你們退席但這並不表示那一次的會議是無效的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2893.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2919.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
所以我覺得用這個會議的這個程序來卡我林國昌委員提案我覺得本質上是有一些程序上邏輯上是錯誤的所以我覺得我們還是要尊重林國昌委員的提案他的提案說明他包含本人也在現場也就跟大家講了他的提案是在聯席會後的交通委員會裡面提要去的這個這個這個這個提案所以不應該用前面那個會議怎麼樣前面會議如果大家有爭議那是另外一件事情但他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2920.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2924.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我的提案跟決議寫得很清楚那後面那一段我們的決議是我只要一個宗族我們的爭議調閱小組終止應用那如果我的本職 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2946.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2967.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
在我們委員會本委員會通過的東西我怎麼有辦法去涵蓋其他的法的立場也就是聯席會你們認為有問題是應該聯席會處理啊那我提案的本質是進電視吊業小組終止停職 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2969.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2970.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2997.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3003.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
關你不同意有什麼樣的問題就過了啊沒有啦 這沒話說啦 這沒話說嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3011.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3023.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個是我交代我跟各位報告為什麼要停職黃建平委員黃建豪委員不好意思這個決議就是上次 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3039.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3054.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
專案小組大家開會討論決議嘛我們今天在討論的會議意思就是確認不就是要確認這個決議有沒有有沒有問題嗎啊絕對沒有問題那就沒有問題好不好我是覺得大家針對決議的部分嘛這是結論嘛那當然會議的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3056.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3074.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
規過程 討論是規討論但是真正有效是所謂的會議結論的決議今天要缺的是這個決議那如果決議大家沒意見那我想應該就是沒意見了我也不知道為什麼我們要花20分鐘在討論這個事情好不好 以上說實在的 如果有一例主席我是建議他們可以臨時 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3077.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3096.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
臨時表示他的意見把他發進去這個是可以的但是我的終止本來就是終止硬做而已我也沒有講說那個會議有沒有效啊那個會議有沒有效不是我可以提的我只是終止我的小組的硬做我在這邊做個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3097.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3119.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
一事入的確定不是指決定決議而已不是指決定決議而已你還說對林委員我說一事入的確定不是指決定決議而已這個魯明哲委員也非常的清楚那另外我要說明的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3121.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3137.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
決議的部分只有提案才有決議沒有之前的這個林國成委員等6人提案的這個部分才有相關的這個決議的產生那我尊重各位委員的發言來 魯明哲委 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3138.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3156.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝主席我想針對這個議書確定我個人建議還是要把它確定第一個確實有一些不可逆的東西包括我們7月3號決議之後NCC已經收攤了嘛它已經收攤了嘛501我不知道所有委員去沒有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3157.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3177.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那他的功能在7月3號我們即當時講說即日停止運作他已經收攤了那這幾天我們也不可逆今天啊原來這個不應該這樣的他應該擺回來放在那裡甚至今天下午再把它放回來要不要這樣的第二個呢我不知道公文發了沒有因為其實就已經也發文一個正式經關一個新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3179.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3204.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那我是覺得是這樣嘛就在這個的部分其實主要的一個停止的一個理由當然是第一個因為我們要的一些資料我想林國純當時這個他做召委召集人很多的資料他都沒有辦法得到嘛沒有辦法得到完整的資料致使我們調閱專案小組無法落實調閱權的行使這個是裡面的一個精髓 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3205.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3229.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
當然第二段這個部分 兩個委員會聯席跟立法院職權行事法即使沒有兩個委員會聯席的話我相信可能民進黨的委員你也不認為立法院職權行事法現在在釋憲你也認為違憲可是問題是我們通過這個決議在違憲判定之前這個部分我們是有合法 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3230.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3256.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我們當然可以去依照法令總統都公告了來執行那如果你但針對聯席真的有問題真的真的有問題未來在院長級有什麼調整最後談之前之前我們這麼多人雙方都有出席開了一個正式的會議我們當然要認定這個會議的決議是有效的我至少我個人認為是這樣希望能夠一速度照這個表列通過謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3257.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3277.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好謝謝那在這邊我也要處理一下相關的議事的程序那我們等一下會請交通委員會我們的主秘來做簡單的說明這是有關於7月3號交通司法法制的聯席會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3279.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3296.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
相關議事的進行他的議事錄到底是確定了沒有公告了沒有那你上午的會如果議事錄還沒有確定還沒有公告的話那下午的這個會現在就要做議事錄確定那 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3297.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3308.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
相關的決議內容又有提案的主要內容是跟上午的會議是實質關聯的那這個部分要怎麼處置我們先請竹民來做簡單的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3314.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3331.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
向各位委員報告因為那個7月3日的聯席會議的議事錄當時委員的宣告最後一點是說如果本次的聯席會是本會期最後一次議事錄就授權由 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3333.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3334.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
還沒有公告算不算議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3353.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3375.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
就是如果說他是確定的部分的話按照我們的慣例只要是那個以前的慣例就是主席他核定後就算是確定我現在討論的不是慣例我們意思程序那這樣算不算意思度確定程序上 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3376.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3398.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
因為呢就是說事實上最後一次的議事錄他是一個比較特別的那個情況一般的議事錄一定是經過會議的決議來確定但是最後一次的議事錄因為沒有下一次會議只能交由主席來確定這是我們一向那個委員會運作的慣例 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3398.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3417.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
所以我說沒有公告的話算不算一絲路確定例如今天我們的這個一絲路裡面就是林國成委員提案的這個相關的決議那第一個他是召喚通過立法院交通委員會進電視深色及後續爭議調閱專案小組及日期停止運作二本決議涵 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3419.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3428.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
韓資國家通信傳播委員會那如果今天沒有意思都確定你們要去去韓國家通信委員會說你們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3429.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3454.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
報告委員會就是說事實上這個全體會的部分的議事錄跟聯席會議事錄是不一樣的因為今天我們確認的是有關這個小組停止運作的部分那然後如果今天也是最後一次全體會通常我也會請召委宣告說今天是最後一次那個全體會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3456.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3477.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
議事錄會交由會授權主席合訂後確定所以是跟那個聯席會是同樣的情況所以如果今天是最後一次全體會就是由李召集委員來合訂後確定那如果今天這個議事錄經過確定跟經過李召集委員確定之後我們才會 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3478.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3495.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
今天這個會議確定之後我們才會發函給國家通訊傳播委員會告訴他們說這個小組已經停止運作在這個議事錄還沒有經過李召集委員合訂之前我們不會發函以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3497.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3512.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
好我們在處理交通委員會相關的議程那我個人都會秉持的大家形成共識也不會說強行的來做自己的一個裁決現在休息5分鐘大家寫上 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3861.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3882.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
好,我們繼續開會今日的議事錄確定那召委、主席一定都是秉持議事程序讓大家充分的討論所以今天的討論過程也讓我們各黨派的委員充分的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3883.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3909.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
第二：也請議事人員：請主秘來說明相關的議事程序處理的過程那在大家意見都有不同的說明之下我們也進行的5分鐘的相關的協商就是充分的我們必須尊重會議的民主的程序那 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3911.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3928.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
在這邊我們委員有建議是否就符合相關的決議就是照案通過立法院交通委員會今天是深涉及後續爭議調閱專案小組即日起停止運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3929.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3957.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
這樣的一個會議的決議是否能夠讓它確實的符合相關的決議所以針對這個提案的內容通過委員林國成等6人提案以下第一段都保留第二段鑑於今天是深色及後續爭議調閱專案小組調閱期間將屆且立法院交通司法法治委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3960.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3984.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
聯席會以依據修正後之立法院職權行使法之規定成立競電式深色及後續弊案爭議調查小組這一段刪調那保留交通委員會競電式深色及後續爭議調閱專案小組階段任務已經完成後續立法院對競電式案調查員 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3990.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
4014.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
今天是深涉及後續正義專案這個調閱專案小組即日起停止運作那還有倒數的第三段就是倒數的第三行已如今天是深涉及後續弊案正義調查小組行使職權行使職權這一句也刪除不知道大家有沒有意見請大家表示意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4016.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4037.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那這樣就符合林國成委員以及相關的意思錄的確定就是決議的部分就是單純的召喚通過立法院交通委員會進電視聲色及後續爭議調案調閱專業小組即日起停止運作這就符合相關的決議抱歉我保留一下表達一下意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4039.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4050.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
就是剛剛趙薇講的針對剛剛的文字敘述去做調整這些東西應該是要在上次會議的時候討論的時候去討論而不是在確認議事錄的時候來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4055.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4078.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那這樣子以後大家都來這樣子做以後美式的決議討論完了之後下次要確認的時候又來修改文字程序應該不是這樣子吧文字要修正應該是要在就有點類似刪讀那你刪讀的時候你怎麼可以再去做大幅度的文字的修正這只是確認跟不確認針對裡面的內容有沒有意見是在討論階段要討論的不是今天應該要討論的 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4080.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4081.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
今天是向交通委員會的各位同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4102.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4126.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
做一次說明我們都遵照相關的民主程序以及充分的討論希望能夠符合相關的議事規則那我再重申一遍今天讓大家充分的討論第二也請主秘來說明相關的會議程序的進行的現況 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4128.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4151.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
第3也在進行相關的協商接下來也再一次的進行相關內容的大家的一個確定如果大家都還是有各持己見那我們就尊重林國成召委的提議來進行表決來表決前請清點人數好 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4156.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4167.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
在場出席委員12人不含主席以足法定人數來贊成一事路確定的請舉手 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4192.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4215.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
好那贊成者八人反對請舉手四位不要用貓來形容委員好不好好那反對者四人那贊成者多數議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4228.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4249.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
現在介紹在場的官員李孟諺部長林福山市長陳文瑞局長林紀國所長杜威董事長委員的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4252.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4279.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
來．林佩祥委員．林國誠召委．陳雪生召委．邱若驊委員．廖先祥委員．黃建豪委員好．現在本日進行TPASS通勤月票辦理情形專題報告．請交通部．李孟諺部長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4291.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4317.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
主席．各位委員．各位女士先生．今天應邀列席貴委員會．就TPASS通勤月票辦理情形提出報告．謹敬請各位委員指教．為振興公共運輸．及減輕民眾日常通勤通學交通負擔．交通部配合義後強化經濟．以社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果特別條例． |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4318.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4341.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
擬定行政院促進公共運輸使用方案並編列3年200億元預算來推動TPASS行政院通勤月票由中央主導地方共同參與的方式依不同旅運需求及縣市緊密程度規劃月票方案其能有效恢復及提升公共運輸的運量 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4343.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4364.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
交通部自112年2月議後特別條例通過後﹐及積極協助輔導﹐及審查各縣市政府規劃月票方案﹐其中,北中南三大生活圈月票方案﹐於112年7月1日率先上路實施。新竹縣市、雲林縣、嘉義縣市、宜蘭縣、花蓮縣及台東縣等縣市﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4369.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4396.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
陸續響應推動目前已經有19個縣市實施月票方案上線以來也獲得民眾踴躍使用已經有超過760萬人次加值購買及5.7億人次使用月票搭乘各類公共運輸工具全國實施月票縣市之公共運輸量依照月票實施前成長12.7%推動成效良好 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4397.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4418.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
為持續擴大TPASS的受惠族群照顧短期非通勤公共運輸需求本部克正規劃TPASS2.0短天期的定期票並其能於113年12月底以前來事半推動以滿足更多元化的旅運需求及鼓勵民眾使用公共運輸 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4419.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4431.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
接下來詳細的說明請容我請本部公路局陳局長、文瑞向各位委員做報告再次謝謝各位委員的指教來請陳文瑞局長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4438.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4455.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
主席、各位委員、各位理事先生接著報告TPASS通勤月票目前的辦理情形在1號為了要增新公共運輸本部在1號特別預算編列3年200億元的預算那這個案子是由這個全國首創由中央主導地方參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4456.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4482.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
從這個生活圈的角度來規劃整合生活圈內的運具那整合這個運具種類最多的一個政策那民眾大概是用交通支出原有的3到5折就可以就是說這樣子的優惠來達成各類的公共運輸那TPASS的月票是112年去年7月1日開始這個實施以來目前全國已經有19個縣市24個月票方案那澎湖縣我們也核定了那預計 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4483.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4483.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4501.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4516.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
現在大概有5.74億人是使用月票搭乘各類公共運輸平均每月是4787萬人次因為這個TPASS也帶動了這個實施TPASS月票的縣市的公共運輸所以平均每月的這個帶動這個公共運輸全國這個實施這個月票的縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4521.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4521.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
公共自行車23.8% |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4541.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4563.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
在TPASS執行的過程中,交通部是透過EO特別預算來補助各縣市政府所需的,包括優惠票價差額,票證系統的建置,票證系統的修改。在去年112年的預算,21億元也全部執行完畢。今年編列的預算,預計我們也可以執行到百分之百。 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4564.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4580.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那後續的推動的這個方向包括這個我們已經核定各縣市政府還沒有上線的這個月票方案包括澎湖縣的這個月票以及北宜的2300月票那澎湖縣月票預計在8月份可以來實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4580.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4608.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
伊蘭縣的2300月票公路局也在今年的6月6日審查原則通過也預計在9月份來實施另外在更精進的部分因為這個TPASS主要是就是說當初是30天通勤通學的公共運輸使用者為了擴大使用的族群交通部也在跟各縣政府討論要推動TPASS2.0的短期定期票 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4609.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4637.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
這個部分可以來照顧非通勤的公共運輸使用者那大概就是說這個適用的天數不超過14天那這個方案的話在6月25日公路局也都跟各縣政府召開討論的一些這個執行的一些過程執行的一些方案的一個確認那預計在今年的12月底可以來事辦推動讓這個TPASS能夠擴大加惠到更多元的這個旅運需求的一個族群那 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4638.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4666.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
整個TPASS的月票從去年的這個7月上路實施以來成像良好那各方也都反映在疫後特別預算這個三年的預算這個執行完畢後是能夠希望能夠持續推動所以本部也預計在今年年底提出後續推動計劃來爭取在115年之後能夠常態的推動預算那未來就是這個編列的這個預算還請這個委員能夠支持那以上報告進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4667.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4696.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這個各位委員指教謝謝好在進行詢問之前我們要做個議事程序的一個補足那剛才議事錄已經確定那相關陳樹越等人的提案我必須做個正式宣告委員陳樹越等私人提案不通過好 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4699.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4720.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
現在要進行詢答先宣告以下事項發言時間出席委員6加1分鐘列席委員5分鐘委員發言登記於10點30分截止各委員若提案請於10點前提出以便議事人員彙整 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4721.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4741.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
暫定10點30分 休息10分鐘 中午原則上不休息 現在請登記第一位 林沛翔委員發言有請部長 跟我們公路局局長 請陳局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4752.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4764.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
部長 局長針對TPASS這個政策本席是給予高度的肯定但是老實說我也覺得因為TPASS的上路我有點失望 有點困惑為什麼這樣說 因為我會認為現在的TPASS |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4768.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4790.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
聯閣講起來是對基隆的民眾甚至對大台北的民眾有點於不掩霞實質上來講這是現在TPASS之後呢服務品質不但不足反而變更差那我們現在看到的這些都是目前我想局長都很清楚可能部長第一次看到這全部都是在台北等車等國道客運的基隆人 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4791.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4814.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那每天都是這樣的狀況這是白天上班這是一邊是白天上班一邊是晚上下班變成是說造成我們這些已經從這樣的狀況已經持續了至少三年以上基本上來講越來 尤其是TPASS上路之後是越來越嚴重原因其實很特別就是因為我們都知道司機繼續缺工但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4816.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4843.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
班次因為人數的增加又因為司機的缺工所以反而更開不出來我記得沒有錯我最近這半年沒有去調資料因為每個月搭乘用TPASS搭乘國道客運的人數都在增加甚至以前我記得是約略每天有3萬5千名基隆人搭乘這個國道客運來台北上班上課現在應該已經突破4萬人以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4844.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4865.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那這樣的一個大型的人潮那他們當他們這個上班沒有辦法沒有辦法準時上班明明要趕九點的班他們必須六點就六點六點半就已經出門那晚上明明五點半已經下了班他們到家時間是八點八點半那本席身為基隆的民意代表本席是感到非常的心痛 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4866.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4881.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
甚至這樣講今天我也看到交通運營所的所長在這邊對吧我們也都知道基隆到台北這一段跟台北到桃園這一段在上班時間都是最困難的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4882.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4896.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這些是全台灣在上班時間交通最密集最容易塞車的時候但是如果我們的國道科學沒有辦法順利的去符合這大眾運輸的功能的話是不是變相的要逼大家去開車呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4897.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4916.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
所以本席有針對下面五點來請教我們交通部也順便做出建議第一個從我2月1號一上任之後我就一直請我們交通部研擬所謂的國道客運的補助請問什麼時候到位那請問這個金額大概是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4917.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4940.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
因為我從5月的時候最後王部長要離開的時候說已經合訂了不要擔心已經合訂了那本來說6月就會到位結果6月還沒有現在到7月最後面說8月那你們給我們個確切時間什麼時候到位那第二個來講就是說我們什麼時候這筆補助大概是多少的金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4940.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4940.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4966.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4986.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
相關的先跟委員報告就是缺司機這個部分目前已經有幾個措施在進行比如說我們把駕駛的那個年紀從65歲提高到68歲讓有更多人可以來擔任那第二個有相關的一些加薪的措施目前平均大概每個駕駛大概有加薪5000塊月薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4987.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
5004.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那另外也協助流財久用協助招募新的人包括訓練期間每天有915元的津貼那整個招募如果他留任超過一年最多可以領到13萬多的補助那現在已經協助各客運 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
5005.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
5025.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
大概增加了將近2900多位的駕駛那另外有關桃園基隆這7條比較特殊的這個國道那目前有一些正在研擬特殊的一個協助的方式因為確實他的運量離峰跟尖峰有很大的落差那細節我是不是請我們局長跟您報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
5026.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5029.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
反映業者實質營運成本,國道科運交通部合併在今年5月1日調漲運價,因為TPASS是補助票價差額 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5043.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5069.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
所以就是說目前就是說這個業者他要去公告就是說他要提升的因為像我們TPASS的話是全額做補貼所以基本上就是說業者他要調帳公告他的票價不過這個票價不會反映到民眾的身上基本上就是說這個部分TPASS的部分都是全額補助那而且就是說我們是追溯回這個交通部的這個5月1日合訂的這個部分也就是說從5月1日之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5070.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5089.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
業者的營運成本的話接受這個我們的補貼像三排座的話就是說大概就是這個整個營運的成本這個我們的補貼是在接近百分之二十那四排座大概是百分之五局長能不能直接跟我們講說這次的補貼整個補助會大概是會有多少這個金額大概大約是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5093.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5097.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
國道客運整個運價調整一年會增加6億元補貼經費基隆、臺北的尖峰性非常強所以我們現在補貼跟一般國道客運運價的補貼不一樣還會再加成另外它的路線 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5121.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5122.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
人均公里補助會提供多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5136.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5158.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這個部分的話 因為這個它的像基隆台北這邊的話就是說它會比我們5月1日合定的運價大概還會再增加2到6成左右我在這邊就直接把事情講因為局長也知道本溪長期關心我們的國道客運那尤其是不管是平面跟高速公路上面的補助其實是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5159.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5179.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那我在這邊強烈建議就是說在人均公里補助的時候如果能的話建議一次補齊如果能夠到5塊台幣5塊的話人均公里補助如果能到台幣5塊的話我認為一次可以反映所有的成本而且跟甚至有關這個通貨膨脹另外一方面來講就是說你這樣子可以讓業者會願意來進來去經營這些辛苦的路線 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5185.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5190.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
平面道路補貼目前有計劃43塊提高到46塊明年才會去進行計劃平面路段部分去年已經核定了什麼時候實施去年5月份已經實施了平面路段現在是45塊85嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5210.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5212.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
本席認為說如果只定期為三年的氧量計劃基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5236.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5258.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
這幾條路線都不用養量這幾條路線量都很大不管是基隆到台北還是桃園到台北量其實都很大而局長你知道我講哪幾條路線所以說與其是這樣講倒不如說一個補助必要性國道客運的補助變成是一個常態性補助簡稱叫補幣因為這些路線必須要在不然的話這些路線他太多人去搭乘 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5258.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5286.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
如果這些沒有搭乘這些路線的話我們至少我保守估計至少多1000台車從基隆跟桃園上高速公路來做搭乘那這樣對我們目前的高速公路會有更大的影響那最後一點是我這邊就直接跟幫我們新鄉委員講話基隆市目前最大的客運路線叫做1815我想局長很清楚那這條路線不是只有在基隆人也包括金山萬里的鄉親主要都是靠這條路線到臺北 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5288.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5307.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
不過呢因為最近1815的量太大已經大到無法負荷變成是說我們常常聽到基隆跟新北的鄉親我們在場說我們能不能說去誰能夠搭車先誰先排隊那我在這邊見醒我們公路局然後請國光客運然後在1815上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5307.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5330.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
直接試開一班直接從1815經過台北市之後直接到萬里金山我知道現在有直接到萬里可是有經過基隆市可是直接越過基隆市試開一班越過基隆市直接到萬里跟金山到法鼓山這個路線看是否能夠有效的把這個運量給疏散掉這是我的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5332.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5346.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
這個部分的話我記得有在討論我確認一下他們是不是什麼時候要實施因為確實就是說他有一些部分的話可能是需要做一些可能挑戰的一個我剛剛提議的這些不管是運量上面的補價也好還是說還是說那個養量計畫的常態性或者1815的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5354.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5370.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這些問題都會實質上對我們的國道科運有幫助而國道科運是我們在TPASS裡面在基隆這一環裡面受惠最多的人那我希望說部長也好然後我們局長也好能夠認真把本席的本席剛剛進言納入考量以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5370.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5372.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我覺得這一點TPASS對民眾是好事可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5398.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5419.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
如果說業者沒有足夠的補助那變成是說有民眾願意買單但是業者養不活最後面損失的還是我們的民眾所以這點我想請交通部好好列入考量我們來設法來改善這個問題以上好 謝謝林佩祥委員發言完畢現在請林國成委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5433.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5443.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
謝謝主席 請李部長陳局長還有另外我們運輸研究所來林所長 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5452.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5467.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
好,我想部長跟局長還有所長你們早啦,但是我要特別謝謝這個政策,其實TPASS這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5468.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5487.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
政策基本上多數的人是認同的所以在這個部分我們也要謝謝我們召集人他排這個讓我們有一個彼此之間好壞我們做一個充分的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5487.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5510.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我想任何一個政策要做讓人家百分之百是不可能但是有多數的人來認同這是非常重要不要說開錢耍得還要罵這個沒有意義但是可以確定TPASS這個政策是老百姓是認同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5511.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5528.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
但是你認同的過程當中我必須要特別第一個我要請教一下本來加入的有19個縣市喔局長那現在為什麼只剩下15個其他4個是什麼原因可以告訴本席嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5531.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5532.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們這個政策是從去年開始做 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5550.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5566.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
對不對但是第一我要問所長的你們有沒有研究到底老百姓滿意度有多少這第一喔第二你們黃金路線到底每一個線是哪幾條 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5568.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5597.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
首長你有研究嗎跟委員報告一下部裡面有特別要責請運營所來辦理一個研究計畫就是針對這個TPASS上路以後到底它的成效怎麼樣那這裡面當然就是包括委員剛才指教的這個滿意度現在研究出來了沒有現在正在做問卷正在做問卷調查當中黃金路線啊滿意度啊現在在做什麼時候可以做出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5598.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5600.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
任何政府的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5616.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5634.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
當然就是要跟民意結合啊這個效益不要花了幾百億然後效益啊都像在把錢放在水中這個沒有意義啦那我也想李部長是想做事的 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5635.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5660.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
所以我也希望李部長當然雖然充分授權但是既然好的政策要繼續去推你不要推了一年兩年不要給人家老百姓覺得說要選舉就有福利沒選舉就沒福利這點我要勉勵我們李部長這個應該要去堅持因為我們任何政策任何錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5661.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5677.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
只要花在老百姓身上﹐對老百姓有意義的﹐對老百姓﹐可以幫助他們減輕﹐上班主這等等﹐我認為﹐這都是值得的﹐所以﹐伯娘﹐有可能﹐現在如果停起來﹐沒辦法選舉﹐這步驟就沒辦法做﹐會不會﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5680.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5683.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
好 據我手頭資料是否正確 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5710.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5735.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
第一北北居桃使用量佔了八成但是其他兩成啊就只有就只有其他的縣市這個要怎麼解決啊這代表都會行是大受歡迎但是偏鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5737.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5759.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
是有一點障礙那這個障礙是什麼你們有沒有把它研究出來我想整體來講各生活圈在透過這個TPASS之後大眾運輸的使用率是都有提升的不過確實中南部的整個包括捷運路網大眾運輸的這樣的一個可及性 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5760.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5761.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
還有所長跟這個局長我這裡也要有一個建議第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5789.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5807.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
北北基桃確實使用率是高的那它的高的優點是什麼當然是集中人潮集中嘛車輛集中嘛路網比較集中其實臺北市本席啊做過市議員做過世界我很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5808.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5828.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
這個交通網基本上像都會行臺北市是做得比較好所以它效益會比較好這一點我要拜託所長你們在研究的時候要把它分區分段做一些剛才我所提的黃金路線以及班次 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5831.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5854.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
黃金這個都要把它研究出來哪邊車輛不足哪一個時間是最需要這個研究所就要把它研究出來另外一個我還是要建議建議局長在做這些事的時候逃逐逐秒要有另外一種研究很明顯現在是印量有沒運據 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5855.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5855.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
中章頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5875.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5894.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
銀嘉蘭這等等這生活圈完全都是會不一樣所以我也要拜託我們部長當然你不可能管得這麼細膩在最起碼局長還有首長你要研究出來一套這些TPASS |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5895.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5896.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
方法對! |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5915.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5932.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
自然而然就會做的正確方法不對那就會做的不正確所以我要拜託我們陳局長還有我們林所長部長要督促把這個政策好的政策把它做好但是像這種印量油 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5933.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5949.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
沒車輛這個問題怎麼解決我也希望林所長好好提供幕僚參考的資料給部長去做政策的限制給局長去做這個執行的議題這樣的話我相信這個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5950.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5967.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
老百姓會給你們賀財的好不好好也簡單跟我們報告剛剛提到有運量沒運據現在我們有一個市區的電動公車的補助那今年有合訂了1900台那我想剛剛逃逐逐秒如果說缺乏公車我們會來聊像雲嘉嵐啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5969.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5986.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
另外中南部也協助很多所以啦 部長我剛才跟你們建議就是要切塊啦不能依照白白機啊 這個方式但是偏遠有偏遠的這些需求所以我還是建議這個部分可能要把它分開規劃這樣的話才會進善進美好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5996.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6000.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
謝謝林國成委員質詢接下來邀請李昆澤召委質詢謝謝主席請一下李部長陳局長還有台鐵杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6018.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6034.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
副部長我先就教於台鐵那我請教杜威董事長藍皮解憂號他的票價調整其實他也不是這兩天調整他在5月1號就已經調整票價了那這兩天社會多所議論 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6035.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6054.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那最主要說台鐵它當初在2021年的時候它是以固定的價格來輸出給旅行社就是雄獅旅行社那我記得當初在2021年的時候它的票價全票是499 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6057.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6061.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
臺鐵當初也有一些的基本要求就是說屏東跟台東的民眾他們有特別的優惠全票啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6084.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6098.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
一般人是599台東跟屏東是399那5月1號調整之後台東跟屏東的這個票價還是399嗎來說明一下調整到499調整到499喔399調整到499也調整了100塊那 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6106.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6130.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
全票的部分從2021年的1999到2022年的599現在到5月1號調整為699那當初這個藍皮捷運號他其實不只是藍皮捷運號他是跟明日號明日廚房同樣的都是出租給旅行社那我要提醒這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6132.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6160.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
局長 這個票價的調整 台鐵有跟他們討論嗎有 他們要提出他們的方案以後 我們公司會做審核他們最主要的方案應該就是說 因為他們的薪水有調整或是說他們藍皮9號有相關的贈品 這些贈品的票價也調整這些價格也調整 但是這個調整的幅度是高了一點 我還是要提醒杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6163.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6187.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
最主要是說因為他的名字號是賺錢的是很賺錢的尤其是在疫情期間因為國人出國比較困難所以他真的是一票難求疫情期間就算現在疫情和緩他平日也應該都有八成左右的搭乘量是不是所以說部長跟局長我要提醒就是說我們客運 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6190.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6195.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
國際航空也是一樣,你有黃金的航線,你也必須要搭配幾條沒有那麼賺錢的航線 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6205.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6206.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
接下來就討論TPASS的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6227.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6245.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
TPASS問題我看我們在2023年的7月啟用其實到今年的6月30號為止搭乘的人次已經達到5.74億人次那累計有768萬8千人的人次購買TPASS的這個相關的這個優惠那其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6255.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6271.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
部長我要提醒你,我們搭乘的人次沒有增加,還減少。今年一至四月的搭乘總人次,對比2019年的同期,就是一至四月,整體減少了,就是所有的載具,減少了9.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6274.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6291.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
其實台鐵還有維吾的成長大概維吾成長0.2高雄捷運也大概有成長這樣的13%的左右台北捷運反而是下跌的台北捷運下降了5.3%那機車客運減少了20.5%市區客運減少18.5%公路客運減少了37.3% |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6299.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6299.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
為什麼?來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6326.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6341.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
委員跟您報告就是大概從實施以來到6月為止平均大概每月購買人數大概是64萬那累計是到768萬那最高峰的是在去年的10月大概71萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6343.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6358.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
每個月平均那這幾個月其實是大概4月5月都到67萬部長這個沒問題我說的搭乘的總能次也好或者是購買的這樣的一個總能次他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6359.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6360.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
公共運輸的這些通勤者 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6373.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6386.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
他是衰退他也不是現在才發生這是一個交通公共運輸的重要問題的趨勢就是說2019年的時候還有48.22023年下降成39.3然後交通部在2022年也有相關的調查報告公共運輸的市佔率2009年還有16.3到2022年變成14.3都是有下降的然後我 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6403.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6429.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我們必須要來面對這個問題來部長您說明一下有一些細節我是不是請局長請陳局長來跟委員報告確實因為三年的疫情其實這個整個公共運輸的這個使用量其實是一直在衰退所以在TPASS的這個加入之後的話其實是一直將這個以前衰退三年疫情的衰退的你的意思是說本來會衰退的更嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6429.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6430.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
公共運輸是遠遠的落後其他的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6451.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6458.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
你看我們的公共運輸的市佔率臺灣整體是18.2日本是36%英國是36%然後亞洲各大城市的對比臺北是37.2臺北算高的臺北37.2香港是87新加坡是86東京是84首爾是57 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6477.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6501.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
差很大耶!差很大耶!所以說部長我們的責任很大的啦!責任很大啦!這個公共運輸的必須要提升它的市佔率嘛!我們當然我們的推動公共運輸當然有五項指標啦!就是價格要可以負擔啦!私人載具的成本與障礙這個我們要公共運輸價格比較可以負擔嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6502.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6515.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
道路的建設、交通網的密度也要提升速度通勤的時間要能夠更縮短舒適度、票務系統的方便度、電子化的方便度轉乘的方便度還有安全跟環境的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6517.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6543.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
這都是很重要的指標來說明一下是我想確實臺灣的這個公共運輸還有很大的成長空間那包括像入網的建設密度還有票務的方便性等等還有可負擔的這個程度那我想這個部分我們會持續的來努力來推動增加入網的密度包括捷運的建設公車入網的建置那還有票證的整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6546.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6572.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
時間的關係我有簡單的幾項建議第一個在票物的價格方面我們應該要以提升服務品質以及安全性這是首要的目標那我們要以良好的服務品質來帶動運載量的上升那改善財務狀況如果你一昧的調高票價他是會導致搭乘意願更低的這樣的惡性循環 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6573.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6601.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
交通部要提供必要的協助啦這我也說給杜董事長聽啦你藍皮截圖號,這樣越來越貴,現在699,不吃你借3這個票價太高了那第二個,交通網的密度不足的問題我們必須要面對就是說以區域的概念來推動區域的交通建設那中南部地區的公共運輸的這種系統的建設不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6602.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6621.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那是要推展國際觀光的一個主力啦也是中央部民眾的痛啦因為市佔率都還是個位數啦都還必須要再提升那針對班次候車時間以及轉乘的距離啊這個都要去做改善啦那提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6622.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6647.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
提高這個接駁轉稱的密度來推動票務及系統的整合來提高這個公共運輸的便利性然後我們要全面盤點各項的交通系統的整合及安全性的問題來進行改善提高民眾公共運輸的信賴度部長我還是要提醒你我們對公共運輸的市佔率 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6650.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6678.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這個是很重要的工作啦我不太能接受陳局長所說的如果沒有TPASS這個市佔率會衰退得更嚴重阿我們好家宅我們有TPASS讓我們的這個衰退沒那麼嚴重本來要送加護病房阿現在是住一般病房大家應該要給交通部下落這是不對的因為整體來說我們的衰退阿以國內自己來比較這兩三年來是逐漸的下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6679.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6679.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
謝謝李昆哲召委質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6709.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6712.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
謝謝陳淑月委員現在請廖先祥委員發言謝謝召委幫我要請我們的部長陳局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6736.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6754.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
委員好部長好 謝謝部長今天應該是我們這個會期最後一次的答詢為了表示我的慎重我昨天還特地去剪了頭髮希望我們今天的答詢能夠愉快我們今天要討論TPASS的使用我們TPASS推出來的最主要的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6755.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6774.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
最主要的目的應該是要提升我們公共運輸的使用率嘛對不對如果說只是單純減輕民眾的負擔沒有辦法提升公共運輸的使用率那就單純的就是一個單純的真正買票而已所以說我們在報告裡面才會特別強調我們從111年7月到112年4月跟112年7月到113年4月就是同樣的月份去對一個比較我們運量提升了12.7% |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6784.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6810.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
當然還有其他的一些細項但是我們在討論一個科學化的統計的時候我想必須要有一些科學化的一些的一些做法我們比如說在做一些化學實驗的時候我們一定要什麼我們要有實驗組跟對照組對不對我們要排除掉實驗組跟對照組除了那項變因以外的其他變因我們都要去排除來確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6812.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6838.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我們去做的這一項變因到底對它實際上面的影響有多大我們在做TPASS也一樣我們從我們110年7月開始有幾項我們臺灣公共運輸一些比較大的一些變化包括你們有提到整個南部的公共自行車或者是南部公共運輸有所成長有許多的變因這跟兩位報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6840.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6867.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我們統計從110年7月開始那我們在也就是2022年那我們在2022年10月5號的時候高雄捷運美術館站到愛河之心啟用同樣的高雄捷運在2024年1月1號愛河之心到凱旋公園啟用那我們高雄的輕軌才是一個完整的環狀線嘛是嘛那也因為高雄輕軌環狀線的完整啟用 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6870.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6888.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
相信也會造成我們這個搭乘使用率的一個上升所以說我們的一些報告比如說南部生活圈高屏成長20.5最高我想除了我們的TPASS我們這個捷運建設入廊的一個健全我認為這才是一個最主要的原因那包括我們的自行車公共自行車成長23.8% |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6892.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6914.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
在2022年11月16號的時候高雄UBIKE 2.01啟用了那當然陸陸續續就增加了很多站以及台北市的UBIKE在今年的2月8號恢復了前30分鐘免費這些都是除了我們TPASS以外的一些公共政策上面的一些改變那也因為他們的改變顯著的 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6916.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6925.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
成長的這個公共運輸的使用率那我們要那包括剛剛我們趙薇講的我們的疫情指揮中心事項所解散的 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6926.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6955.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
是在2023年的5月1號也就是在我們這一次的統計數據跟上一次的統計數據之間我們一起中間去做解散那在疫情中心解散了之後疫情的影響降低之後那包括公共運輸入網的一個完善自行車案的完善導致了我們的運量的上升那要把這些運量上升的結果通通歸功於我們TPASS的一個月票的推出我認為這有點自我感覺良好 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6955.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6984.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
就比如說我們在考量到我們餐廳的一個業績好了我們可以說我們今年餐廳業績跟疫情期間業績我們暴增了10倍那你認為這樣的統計數據有意義嗎它有許多不同的客觀因素那包括疫情也是一個很大的一個因素因此我認為剛剛我們李孟諾召委特別提出來疫情前跟疫情後的公共運輸的一個數據的一個比較它才是有意義的 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6985.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
7012.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
以阪南縣來講我們應該要拿疫情前阪南縣的使用人數使用率來跟疫情後阪南縣或者是淡水縣的使用人數來比他才是有意義的啊因為我們並沒有做路線的變換我們並沒有政策上面的改變我們也排除掉疫情導致我們力量降低先蹲後跳的一個成長的因素啊那我們確實如剛剛我們的李昆哲教委講的在疫情前 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
7013.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
7029.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
的使用率跟我們疫情後的大眾使用率來相比我們推出了TPASS之後反而使用率還降低了這在剛剛的答詢之中你們並沒有回答出你們的一些檢討原因我們這部分可不可以先針對這部分來做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7030.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
7057.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
跟委員報告,就是當然大眾運輸的使用因素的這個升或降有很多種因素,譬如說可能疫情的考量,那人不希望積極,那另外譬如說UBIKE恢復30分鐘的免費,還有譬如說路網的比較健全,路網的新增的路網,我想你都會增加使用率,那不過從TPASS實施後,確實像臺北捷運,他的運量是增加了11.26,那桃園 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
7059.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7060.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
陶傑增加68.1% |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7084.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7091.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
臺中捷運是增加31.7%不過這個數字當然委員建議說可不可以跟疫情前再做比較我只是希望推出這個政策我想不會有民意代表反對畢竟他就是一個傻錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7110.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7110.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7128.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7131.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
使用公眾運輸的使用率這個政策才叫做成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7159.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7173.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
提供一些我個人搭乘大眾運輸的體驗因為台灣的公共運輸跟國外比確實價格是便宜非常的多所以許多的民眾其實他在乎的不一定是價格許多民眾在乎的是搭乘的舒適度 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7174.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7196.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我不知道部長最近有沒有機會看到搭公車的民眾因為公車司機的缺顏導致班次減少到每個民眾搭乘公車的時候跟擠沙丁魚一樣他是非常不好的乘車的體驗每一個人在是否選擇公共運輸的時候可能會有不同的原因有的人選因為價格有的人是因為舒適度 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7198.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7218.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我覺得這個東西我們交通部不要只用一個價格好像就是做一個政策性的補貼好像就好像是在做這個交通政策是一個很大的一個成功好像很多人買就很多人成功問題是買的這些人本來就是在搭乘這種運輸工具對我們政策精神的目標是沒有去達到我們當初的設定的目標我是希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7220.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7239.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
兩個面向我們交通部願意補助我們搭乘的民眾我當然覺得很好但是我們也希望能夠提升我們大眾運輸的搭乘的一個品質包括我上禮拜搭台鐵來我們立院我差點遲到因為第一班我擠不上去阿第二班我是硬擠貼在門上我才搭過來阿這就是搭乘體驗嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7240.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7267.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那我們唯有雙管齊下我們在搭乘體驗的部分也同步的來做提升我相信才能夠提升我們民眾使用大眾運輸的一個使用率那我希望我們所有的統計的資料不要用美化後對自己有利的一個統計資料來做呈現而已一定往後希望相關的數據都能夠把疫情前的數據來跟疫情後的數據來做比較我相信這才會比較有意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7268.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7273.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我們會虛心來面對﹖那有很多待改善的﹖比如說該提升品質的﹖我們也會來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7288.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7317.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
抱歉 廖先祥委員我們現在請林俊憲委員發言先做一下宣告林俊憲委員發言完畢之後在陳樹業委員發言完畢之後我們休息10分鐘謝謝主席本席邀請我們交通部李孟諺李孟諺理部長請理部長那也再一次跟廖先祥委員抱歉年紀大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7320.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7337.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
來 部長 是 委員好我今天還是要再跟你討論一些台南的事情幫我們台南鄉親爭取一些來自中央的幫助現在我們在推這個TPASS有一個系統就是藍高頻 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7339.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7356.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
部長你在台南也長期服務過你知道台南的地形是南北很狹長你如果高鐵從台南站上車你要坐19分鐘才會到嘉義等於說你用200多公里你要跑20分鐘才能離開台南所以他南北是很狹長 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7358.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7384.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
因此北台南,就是我們說的KB,西北地區,尤其是大新寧地區,他的生活圈其實根本都不是跟高雄在一起。所以你那個TPASS你用南高屏,根本一半的台南人不會使用。所以台南市政府現在要結合嘉義縣市,要來推一個加加南的生活圈通勤需求,尤其現在, |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7386.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7402.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
這個西北地區也逐步的要開發加益現在台積電也要去投資所以呢現在的TPASS這個加加南台南市政府希望我們交通部能夠予以幫助啦幫助什麼呢他需要一些數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7404.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7428.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
什麼數字?就是通勤人數的統計這樣他才可以計算出跟嘉義合作以後的TPASS的價格那為什麼需要推一個嘉嘉欄呢?就讓我們企業的地方尤其是大型地區的民眾來使用你如果以民用到藍科啦比如說以生活圈加以民用到藍科做一個例子你如果一天的來回費差別要多少?要160塊啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7430.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7441.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
如果你上班20天啊那一個月通勤火車票要3200塊所以你如果推一個TPASS會大幅的減輕負擔但是現在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7446.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7460.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
加加南的TPASS沒有納入台鐵所以我希望未來要把台鐵給納進來要把台鐵納進那個TPASS的系統裡面那現在因為台南嘉義是不同系統平台啦這個局長知道齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7462.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7477.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
現在自己一個系統 台南一個系統因為台南現在贏的是藍高屏系統所以你如果北台南要跟嘉義合作的話第一個 它這個技術的串接還有運具系統的程式修改經費還有票務系統的串聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7478.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7484.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
目前臺南有一個299跟399自己的方案那嘉義有一個399的方案那我們現在有跟臺南跟嘉義在協助就是說怎麼樣這兩個縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7499.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7505.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
其實有一些經費更需要交通部的補助例如電子票證的製作民眾搭乘各類的公共運輸如果你買月票有優待票 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7525.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7546.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
那跟正常票價之間的差額 這個部分有 交通部也是可以納為補助項目還有票證系統的建置 還有程式開發跟修改他如果要搭高鐵都要到鋪子 另外有一些人是在家中念書 所以相當的通勤確實是有用 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7546.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7547.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
另外部長我這裡有一個建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7577.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7586.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
你知道去年我們2023年全國交通事故的死傷總人數有多少人有54萬2000人那其中騎機車的包含重型機車死傷人數是42萬1000也就是說全國一年的車禍死傷人數騎機車的佔了百分之將近78 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7605.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7632.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
所以其實在台灣騎機車是非常危險而且是佔肇事的死傷人數70倍那我們要如何減降低死傷人數呢就是應該要從降低機車的車禍事故發生來多方面的著手那交通的事故都發生在哪裡其實因為我們有很多地方是沒有大眾運輸工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7634.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7662.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
那六都加總起來啦因為人口稠密啦所以六都加總起來又佔了我們機車所有造勢事件的七成因為人多嘛那其實很多地方基本上使用的交通工具還是機車啦他們機車的數目我看有幾乎都是一個人一台啦一千多萬台啦兩千萬台啦那台南雖然是六都裡面人口最少 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7663.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7683.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
但是因為台南的交通大眾運輸幾乎就比較起來啊 台南大眾運輸還是相對的落後所以台南人口雖然六都最少但是啊相較於其他直轄市呢 台南的機車造勢的建樹是全國第四那要怎麼走開人家幹的這個機車的造勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7690.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7703.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
所以你要去統計研究也是交通部有發現那交通部現在在推動就是機車駕訓班我們大部分的人去考機車駕照都是自己學自己騎實際上很少人會去機車駕訓班那交通部為什麼你要來推這個其實這是有研究數據的你如果有去 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7716.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7743.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
這次機車駕訓班訓練後扣到機車的價值你後來發生車禍的比例大幅減少有受訓的比沒受訓的在違規方面少了快六成他可能就比較懂交通規則啦我再猜啦違規啦如果有受過駕訓班的比沒有受過駕訓班的肇事 化妝車喔少了36% |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7745.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7763.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
民眾在考照一年後 還有考照三年後 也平均違規率或肇事率都明顯的下降所以現在交通部在推這個駕訓班 但我覺得好過很壞推行到現在還是只有12.6%的民眾 他考照是經過機車駕訓班 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7766.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7789.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
全國平均可以使用的名額都用不完,因為我們交通部部長有地方政府,你如果要靠交通架腳,要去架分班,政府幫你倒出錢,一個人好像出一千三百塊,是不是這樣?但每個縣市財源不一樣,臺北市就很有錢,臺北市幾乎剩下的,臺北市政府全部買單。 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7791.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7814.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
臺南市政府大概比較不行啦民眾一般大概要再負擔差不多將近一千多塊啦將近兩千塊啦但是這個名額為什麼用不完你全國用百分之八十八齁其實都集中在比較進步的臺北、雙北、加拿大臺南的使用名額只有百分之五十七啦不到六成很多地方齁你看平均都只有十幾趴啦全國 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7817.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7835.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
這個使用這個名額的比例啊非常非常低啊有幾個原因啊第一個你駕訓班齁設置的點數還很少啦其實駕訓班跟一般考汽車不一樣啊機車駕訓班有時候少少一個空地就可以啦那其實應該要落實到行政區落實到社區去啦過去齁交通部拿台南做第一個事辦齁交通部讓台南事辦那個就是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7847.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7875.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
機車駕訓班讓他到地方來到比較有社區性不過我希望交通部部長你既然要推這種機車駕訓班那你應該要讓民眾有一個第一個方便性就是你希望他你如果他要去機車駕訓班然後還要跑很遠他基本上你這個普舉率就不拉不起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7876.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7902.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那像臺南的機車駕訓班齁,那個部長,我們台南只有陰空臨地到整個臨路啦臺南就只有這幾個點啦,只有五個點啦而且行政區只在永康仁德歸人啦那臺灣有很多縣市啦,就是在五家以下其中有六個縣市齁,全縣啦,全縣市只有一家啦所以這個便利性啦,一定很不足啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7904.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7932.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
還有你去駕訓班應該讓他可以原地考照我們現在有24間醫學部幫我原地考照的那誰要去那邊練習基本上我們現在讓民眾便利就是說他在這個場地如果來練習你應該讓這個地方如果既然是機車駕訓班的場地就應該允許他可以原地考照這樣才對你現在有幾十間都沒辦法提供這樣好不好簡單一句話你要推這個政策我就要讓他推成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7933.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7942.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
推到現在那個誘因還有普及率都那麼低啦現在考機車駕照了還是只有12.6%有經過駕訓班那你明明知道機車駕訓班上過課的 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7948.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7974.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
一年三年的統計他的肇事還有違規風險都大幅降低那麼就既然政策要推就要好好的推動好不好跟委員報告就是現在這些很多是新設的那設一年之後就可以經過審核就可以原地考照所以目前還在推動所以大概一年內應該就會陸續增加好我們希望這樣如果你要推動希望能夠全力來協助地方政府來推動好謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7976.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7982.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
李俊憲委員發言完畢．現在請陳素月委員．陳素月委員發言完畢．之後休息10分鐘謝謝主席．請主席邀請李部長請李部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8003.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8014.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
有關TPASS通勤月票從去年7月1號上路到今天也剛好滿一年了這個政策的實施我想當初就是希望來減輕通勤組的負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8017.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8020.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
提升公共運輸運量檢討道路交通事故經過實施一年,請部長簡略說一下成效如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8033.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8051.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
跟委員報告就是目前整體的公共運輸那經過TPASS這樣跟實施前同期來比較大概普遍公共運具的使用率提升了12.7那其中像臺鐵大概提升了20% |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8052.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8080.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那另外捷運的部分跟去年的同期比較跟實施前的同期比較都有顯著提升那像桃園捷運大概提升了百分之六十幾以上是就是有我們看到這個統計的資料就是目前就是全國累計已經有達到768.8萬人次來加持購買這個通勤月票那使用的人次也累計到這個5.74億人次的一個使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8080.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8103.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
所以我想今天很多委員都在關心事實上我們對於這個TPASS通勤月票的一個實事辦理我們不能滿足於說這個使用的一個人次而是要去確實去檢討說到底有沒有提升這個運量然後就原來的這個運量就是通勤組裡面是不是有真的讓原來自駕的 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8105.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8105.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
委員會長 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8115.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8139.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
是,如果以各個區來分析公共運輸的運量,像中樟投苗,那它的運量從1200多萬增加到1300多萬,提升了大概8.64那確實是有一些移轉的效果,就是說原來可能是利用自由的運具,要有移轉到公共運輸來 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8140.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8148.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
每個地方的效果因為路網密度等等不一所以效果不一定完全一樣我們看到有關TPASS的使用生活圈的統計來看還是集中在北部都會區就是北北桃 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8160.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8160.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
中南部公共運輸 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8177.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8203.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
這個路網或者是班次都相對的減少所以在整個公共運輸的資源上本來就不平均其實所以就這個政策來說基本上看起來我覺得對中南部也不是很公平因為還是直接受惠的還是以北部就是基北北桃的這個通勤組為主當然這是另外一個問題那我們希望就是說接下來我們交通部還會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8204.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8205.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
除了TPASS可以持續推動之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8221.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8246.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
其實我們另外還有一個計畫就是提升國內的公共運輸包括對於電動公車、市區公車的補助像今年就合訂了新增1900多台希望這些都盡量能夠補助到中南部另外幸福巴士這個也是持續在推動還有各縣市增建捷運的路網 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8247.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8255.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
還有這個相關台鐵班次的提升我想大概要擴大公共運輸的量能確實是需要多管齊下 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8256.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8263.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
對中南部來說公共運輸的建設資源比較少比北部比較少因為我們這樣彰化就沒有捷運目前還在規劃當中這個鐵路就是由北到南這樣縱線的鐵路所以對我們鄉親來說因為交通工具少選擇性就是比較少所以要來使用TPASS的 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8285.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8300.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
﹚議員﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8305.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8328.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
目前在彰化縣就是已經合訂然後已經在通車的就只有竹塘鄉的幸福巴士那目前已經陸續在申請已經決標的就是永晉然後和目前還在審核合訂當中的有西州和美那目前就是希望在這些有申請的這些鄉鎮我們也希望交通部能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8329.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8330.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
主堂不是已經通車了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8352.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8374.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
主堂另外還有一個路線還有一個路線那相信後續應該還會有其他的鄉鎮會再來送申請那這部分也希望政府能夠多予以協助那剛剛部長有提到說補助這個電動巴士的一個部分可是這個我們還有設幾個問題就是駕駛人力這個缺工的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8375.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8375.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8397.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8397.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
李孟諺議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8424.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8425.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
區和公園政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8441.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8455.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
每個月大概平均透過票價的調整等等提薪的大概5000塊每個月那另外新任新聘任的駕駛受訓期間每天可以有900多塊的這個津貼那最高每個如果他能夠留任一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8456.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8457.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
新增新進的駕駛 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8478.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8494.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
﹚議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8495.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8495.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8514.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8542.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那這個計畫目前我們應該就是這是運營所在辦理的是不是可以簡單說明一下這個成效如何是跟委員報告一下IJ送的這個示範計畫當然目前是在六都都已經有這個服務的車隊然後整個一個服務的人次大概已經應該有到70萬人次以上那這個是讓受到各個這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8543.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8570.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
包括服務的民眾跟地方政府都希望能夠持續後續能夠來推動辦理那這個部分因為我們是事辦計畫會到今年的這個年底但是後續的部分就會回歸到不免對於所謂的通用計程車的一個補助的一個辦法裡面那會把這個愛接送這個部分未來在營運上面怎麼樣能夠把它的衍生的成本能夠反映到 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8570.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8575.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
對於中南部真的偏鄉的地方因為交通工具就是比較不方便然後子女也都外出要上班所以對連脈的長輩 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8593.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8621.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
如果說有這樣子的一個愛接送可以預約式的通用計程車服務我想對他們幫助會比較大因為剛剛我們提到這個幸福巴士他是有固定的一個行駛的一個路線我想對於一些行動不便的長輩也是仍然還是不夠方便不夠這個便利性所以針對這一個政策就是愛接送預約式的通用計程車服務我們是建議交通部是不是可以就是評估他的成效之後未來能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8622.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8623.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
請休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8659.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8674.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8705.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8724.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
兩位司法官有聽到消息指望受傷的準備人員是五十五個另外一位司法官是六五個 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8732.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8735.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那現在會議通常在附近附近附近附近 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8758.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8781.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8789.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8790.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
本會議的主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8818.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8819.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8830.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8837.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8843.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8844.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8861.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8861.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
韓國瑜議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8894.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8901.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8917.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8918.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8947.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8949.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8969.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8992.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那另外一則報告．為了這個票跟其他的運營的其他項目．例如說像自行貿易貿易項目．那這個運營大概要多少塊．公車要幾塊、要三十塊．剛才你提到十五塊．那我覺得它的數據又比這兩個運營還要大 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8994.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8995.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
委員會主席委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9013.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9016.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9040.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9054.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
希望透過TPASS擴大民主主義和共同社會共同社會共同社會共同社會共同社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9057.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9059.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
目前馬車還是跟各區塊的運動隊組在一起? |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9075.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9075.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9112.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9115.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9121.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9122.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9142.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9144.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9171.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9175.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我只好再打一遍吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9202.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9202.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9219.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9219.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9255.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9256.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9314.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9318.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
委員會主席委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9340.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9340.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9377.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9379.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9394.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9395.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9443.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9444.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
繼續開會 現在請何欣淳委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9452.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9457.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
好謝謝李昭惟我們請部長請李部長部長好在進入今天的質詢主題之前先謝謝禮拜一的一個臺中捷運的考察那部長在事後也有發臉書也有圖卡就是支持臺中的捷運五線齊發那能夠讓臺中更進步那中央全力支持那 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9482.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9511.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我是希望再借重中央的經驗就是說其他城市的捷運入網尤其像台北市已經成行那我們希望未來能夠參考其他城市的經驗那請中央也跟地方一起把我們台中捷運的五線齊發的一個財務的規劃要如何穩健然後能夠落實而且中央全力支持這個我希望將來部長可以中央的立場跟經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9512.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9514.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
提醒提醒提醒提醒提醒提醒提醒提醒提醒提醒提醒提醒提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9532.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9559.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
不管軟硬體的一個交通基礎運輸是必須要完善的那以台中來講現在有鐵道公路捷運只有一條但是我們也很高興在中央的支持之下我們看到這個數據是來自於交通部公路局的TPASS的專用的網站那以我們113年6月份跟之前去年的112年的8月 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9561.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9582.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我們比較起來臺中的增加率是最高的增加了227%比原來因為北部本身它原來的這個應該通行證本來就是充分的使用那所以呢雖然它的成長比較少但是還是有成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9584.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9601.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
南部也相對的成長的算不錯將近150、140幾所以以TPASS這樣子的一個公共政策行政院的決定是對的他的決策是對的而且真的是對我們全台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9602.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9623.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
北中南的公共運輸是有增加成長的趨勢尤其台中增加了2.3倍所以我必須要先謝謝行政院謝謝交通部那接著我們就要來討論那執行一年像我剛剛講都有提升但是台中提升這麼大的情況之下我們捷運還是只有一條線 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9626.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9654.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我期許在剛剛我講的中央能夠努力的支持臺中捷運入網成型而且能夠五線齊發能夠完成除了穩健的財務規劃中央要支持以外最重要的是未來的TPASS的一個政策的延續永續還有是不是有其他加碼的可能性來全力支持臺中的這個公共運輸還有我們的TPASS政策可以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9654.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9657.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
的政策感謝委員的大家的支持能夠讓他能夠順利的這幾年來上路那後續我們覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9674.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9692.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
交通部也會來跟院裡面院裡面我認為也是支持的就繼續的來持續延續這樣的政策那但是確實是後續怎麼樣能夠再更精進讓使用率更高那提升大眾運輸的這個這個搭乘我想還有很多各方面的努力要 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9693.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9693.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9708.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9725.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
當然我們一般民眾他會使用這個公共運輸的意願就會提高意願提高再加上政府的政策決策的一個引導跟配合跟補助那當然才會改變國人的交通習慣使用習慣 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9727.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9745.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
這在臺中尤其重要尤其臺中的人口正在成長已經是全國的第二大城市如果再加上其他中部的縣市事實上是數百萬的人口的移動人口在這個臺中都會需再移動所以這要拜託部長一定要支持也要要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9746.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9749.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
交通基礎設施到底方不方便? |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9771.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9791.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我們現在看到以這個捷運路網這個是我們未來的願景圖剛剛講的五線齊發在還沒有只有一個一條綠線的情況之下公路跟鐵路是現在接柏進市區的重要選項那尤其是鐵路尤其現在你看到從清泉崗機場要進來市區 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9795.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9816.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
是非常不方便還不方便那我們高鐵呢從新烏日站要進市區也不是很有善之前我曾經跟杜董事長提過包括班次的增加那班次的增加呢就要什麼就要因為新烏日站叫做三鐵共購在三鐵共購的情況之下我們不僅僅是雙鐵啦我現在只是今天只是講雙鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9820.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9841.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
實際上連捷運的便利性都未來要納進去這樣子呢國內外的旅客選擇臺中這個城市要來觀光旅遊的時候他才會方便啦方便的時候那才能夠有正向的一個循環吸引更多人來臺中嘛對不對我今天只是稍微把這個高鐵的到站的時刻從早上到下午 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9841.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9860.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
跟台鐵在新烏日站的一個區間車的一個發車的時刻我只是稍微比對了一下啦事實上我覺得這個等待的時間算長而且還可以再改進進進就是銜接啦那個班車與班車之間的銜接我們是不是第一個我的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9861.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9889.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
有沒有可能呢是不是盤點像台北火車站也好或者日本東京車站也好或者是呢國外的各個國家的一個主要的一個轉運車站轉協車站也好我們去看看別人的經驗怎麼樣的一個等候的時間轉協的時間是適合的是恰當的是符合民眾的交通的習慣跟他的需求的我覺得這個是可以用大數據第一個來 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9890.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9890.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
先請董事長回答好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9919.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9937.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
跟委員報告的確最近我們高鐵還有增班是高鐵7月開始要再增43班對所以在這個情況之下我們這個提供的我們的接駁的車輛我們會來跟高鐵配合來研議看怎麼樣來調整這個間距 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9940.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9955.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
部長你就希望要求台鐵基於專業而且他必須要跨雙鐵來協調那如果更進一步的話還要跟地方政府捷運來做協調那如何讓這個轉成轉弦的這個不僅僅是空間的一個問題還有時間的拿捏問題甚至牽涉到這個山鐵公共裡面的車站裡面的營運的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9968.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9995.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
那我相信這個是可以有其他的經驗來研議再加上我再提醒雖然是兩年後會發生的事情再提醒一次高鐵車站外我們鐵道局招商的全亞洲最大的shopping mall2026要開張我們要有預期心理啊現在就要逐步的來調整來面對啊因應啊你兩年後 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9996.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10020.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那個全亞洲最大的娛樂城如果真的完工開始啟用了之後他未來的人潮車潮是遠遠數倍於現在的規模那我們又該如何因應所以我再一次很誠懇的提醒啦好不好逐步的來調整逐步的以其他各車站的一個經驗來做最恰當的調整好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10020.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10040.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我想這個部分台鐵會請台鐵跟高鐵密切合作不要讓下了高鐵的乘客轉搭台鐵那等候過久那這樣就會失去接駁什麼樣是適當的等候時間我覺得這個是可以有大數據或是其他各國的大車站可以來做一個比較或者是來汲取他們的經驗嗎好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10041.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10041.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
許智傑委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10074.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10077.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
謝謝主席我們請部長還有公務局陳局長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10088.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10116.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
部長好部長這個TPASS前幾天我在院會質詢的時候部長有提到先跟交通部感謝一下就是TPASS的確現在獲得蠻好的迴響我從去111年事實上那個時候交通部首次提出通勤月票北北機正好那時候交通部到我們鳳山考察 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10117.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10117.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
那當然﹖好 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10143.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10168.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
還要更好我們的叫做實事求是 精益求精那上一次我有在院會跟部長要求說TPASS是不是可以結合好玩卡那交通部也有在研擬嘛 對不對我想部長可能沒有玩過好玩卡好玩卡其實我們的TPASS是針對交通好玩卡是針對觀光那 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10171.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10198.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
公路局在規劃這個TPASS的時候如果只是規劃公路局的就會變成兩線的獨立行駛事實上兩線如果結合1加1可以大於2所以我希望說公路局跟交通部可以有這樣子的思考未來才會有不一樣的翻轉我舉個例子給部長參考部長這你可以參考一下你大阪那你可能不去選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10200.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10222.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
日本有週郵券跟樂郵券週郵券是實體卡樂郵券是QR CODE他們規劃到多細呢你可以看到他這個語言中間那一條字太小了他們的語言包括日語、英語、繁體中文 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10224.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10248.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
簡體中文、韓語不同的國家要去那邊玩你要看他們的裡面的細部的內容你就可以用自己的語言進去看然後呢你看底下有很多的好玩的點什麼空中庭園長萬台啦天空美術館啦摩天輪啦等等你看喔還有那個美女做代言人 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10250.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10278.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
那他們規劃到這個形勢力上規劃多細跟部長報告所以你看到他7月9號黃色的那一天你只要點那一天那這些旅遊景點哪一些點在今天是休館的哪一些點開放的時間是什麼時候他只要點進去都寫得很清楚所以你如果要去大阪旅遊你只要在網上這樣子看了一下查了一下你大概就知道要怎麼玩 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10280.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10305.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那包括你看他那邊還有免費景點你出示卡片他會送你小禮物甚至你去買什麼東西會打折也就是說你有人潮才會有錢潮所以台灣好玩卡跟TPASS是不是將來有機會結合這個要出這個電子版那現在年輕人其實到全世界各國去玩他們已經很習慣用這個QR CODE電子版在玩那我們再看 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10307.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10326.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
底下第二行就是未來的TPASS其實交通部可以看看日本跟高雄的Mango卡我們高雄Mango卡其實也做得還不錯那現在應該比台北推得還要好啦但是這個就是從交通部公務局的角度它是TPASS卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10326.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10342.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那從觀光署的角度今天觀光署正好沒來也拜託部長先有這樣一個格局跟眼光那也一起要求觀光署就是說這個搭配在一起他才會玩得更好玩所以呢我們再看韓國 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10344.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10359.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
韓國其實韓國的那個首爾的轉轉卡也類似他們現在在學習大阪事實上大阪這部分應該是除了歐洲之外亞洲應該是大阪做得最好的那韓國他們也在學習他這個轉轉卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10361.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10367.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
臺幣在大阪大概1100在首爾大概1500在高雄我們從1090現在陳其邁市長現在把它變成990北北基大概有1900 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10378.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10401.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那類似這樣子一個卡呢他可以做交通工具可以到旅遊景點那全部都把它融合在一起甚至你上網呢就可以看到我們在看前面日本那一張你上網就可以看到你看這麼多的旅遊景點哪一天啊什麼日期開放什麼這做得很細所以你可以看到台灣在這部分還差很遠我們沒有做這麼細的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10404.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10408.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
世界博覽會宣揚國威宣傳自己國家特色大阪明年3月到10月規劃3千萬人次 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10426.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10442.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
如果我們台灣館在那邊趁機人家也要吸引3000萬人到這個城市去那我們在那個城市去有沒有去宣傳以及在這個城市世界博覽會之前我們台灣這部分的配套有沒有做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10443.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10457.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
假設啦我們就是從高雄來購卡那再加上台北北北基這個其實可以配合這個好玩卡那將來是不是台灣各個不同的城市都可以有這樣子一個推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10458.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10487.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
今天假設我高雄人我會來買北北機的好玩卡那臺中人會去買高雄的好玩卡你今天國人要先會用外國人要來才會用所以在世界博覽會這個明年的時候是不是我們交通部跟公安署當然公路局是管國內的公路但是你如果也加上觀光的概念我們有沒有機會去吸引人家去世界博覽會順便到台灣來玩 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10490.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10505.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
文化總會今年去京都要辦台灣PLUS也是一個宣傳熱身也是希望替台灣宣傳包括之前的東京奧運故宮也會去宣傳我們今天大阪有大阪辦事處 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10506.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10532.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
也有我們觀光署的辦事處那我們有沒有做這樣子一個準備我是希望說 處處都是打卡點 步步都是觀光部台灣將來高科技產業國跟觀光文化國需要我們做更多這樣子一個全面性的思考才能夠把台灣這部分再做一個不同的提升所以我在這邊正式的呼籲就是說 最後一行 交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10533.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10549.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
最後一樣,交通部重點要推行TPASS 2.0目前的TPASS是針對交通,未來的TPASS 2.0是交通跟觀光那TPASS 2.0是包括像日本、韓國這樣子一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10555.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10577.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
目前我們都是外包 外包效果不好日本和韓國他們都是自己公部門主導當然就是說他可能也會主公司或者是他會有一個法人機構等等但是公部門就會負責去做這一部分比較完整的思考跟效率成果的展現 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10578.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10599.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
外包出去好像外包出去就沒事了我是覺得這個不夠所以是不是請部長能夠仔細做這樣的一個思考然後跟公路局跟觀光署做一個結合那為了我們可以看到TPASS 2.0表現的是不一樣的高度跟不一樣的細膩然後能夠吸引世界的人到我們台灣來玩這部分部長還OK嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10600.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10629.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
是 我想謝謝委員的提醒那確實怎麼樣讓食宿遊構型可以人家說一網打盡是一卡打盡一卡都涵蓋在內我覺得讓觀光客他覺得他只要辦一張卡來台灣旅遊的食宿遊構型都可以在裡面得到很好的這個資訊或者是很好的優惠那我覺得這個方向應該是我們要來努力好 我今天是把這個給部長看了一下就是說你知道人家國家怎麼玩 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10630.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10640.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那我們國內什麼時候可以看到我們交通部有這樣子一個豐富的內容跟展現讓國人、讓世人、世界的人可以到台灣這樣子玩 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10642.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10661.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
部長有沒有什麼概念時間上有個要求第一個就是他我們現在公共總局會在年底推T-PASS 2.0那這個部分就是會比較短天期比如說5天7天那麼讓觀光客或是讓出差的所以T-PASS有把好玩卡結合嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10662.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10681.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
但是現在還沒有考慮到要把相關的時數郵購把它結合在進來所以這個我們會再跟請公務局跟觀光署大家看怎麼樣對就是我是今天的重點就是一個跨署司的一個交通部底下由部長能夠督導跟要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10682.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10706.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
請他們能夠有具體的成果的展現在明年的世界展覽會博覽會到日本的時候我們國內今年就開始做準備那明年他們來也正好可以用得上確實從公路局的角度他覺得我只要解決行的問題那怎麼樣把食宿遊購也都能夠所以要步步都是觀光部啊那個我們的公路局也要有這樣子的思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10706.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10708.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
謝謝許智傑委員發言完畢 現在請蔡奇昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10741.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10744.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
謝謝主席 請李部長請李部長委員好 部長好部長這個TPASS這個上路一年了嘛是在議後特別預算裡面我們編了3年200億的經費來做這個TPASS |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10766.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10787.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
本席是非常支持我認為這個對上班族來講其實都是很好的政策那我想民眾的滿意度我們做過調查嗎現在正在因為週年剛週年我們正在做調查現在在調查那你自己的預估民眾的滿意度大概會多高 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10792.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10806.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
目前來講算是這個政策的負評是所有的交通政策裡面負評是比較少我個人滿意度會到什麼程度我目前沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10807.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10826.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我希望你們積極去滿意度是一定會滿意因為政府3年編了200億來協助這些上班族減輕他們的負擔這個一定是滿意但我的意思是說滿意度之外我們要把不滿意的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10827.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10855.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
透過這個調查把不滿意的部分把它找出來然後來把它加以改正那我看了一下這個交通部這些相關的統計數據如果我們以這個臺灣的各地區我們來做一個比較的話我們可以很清楚的從數據上面看到這個基隆北北桃這個核定的預算數跟核撥的預算數其實都是相對最高 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10857.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10874.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
換言之這個地方公共運輸不論是軌道或者是交通公共運輸網絡的這個比例跟密度相對一定比較高因為人數差距不會很遠但為什麼你看這個合定預算數到預算撥付數 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10878.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10890.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這個基隆北北桃都比中部跟南部來得高那如果用各生活圈購買人數使用人數以及跨區使用的情形那使用量你可以看得到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10893.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10907.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
基隆台北北北桃很明顯的使用量是大過這個中張投苗跟南高坪那個倍數是非常驚人這個千萬大概臺中才兩千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10912.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10938.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
這高雄南高屏還有4000多萬那到了這個雞尾尾桃那個是大概快5億了吧所以明顯這個比例是幾乎是不成比例那為什麼不成比例呢其實我們用常識就可以知道這個跟你的公共運輸的量能密度都會有很結的關係所以如果這樣其實我們反過來從TPASS的 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10940.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10960.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
的這個這個好的政策實施反過來講這個更顯得顯示出我們這個中章投秒這個交通建設的緩慢或者頻頻發那當然這個事情不能完全怪交通部因為這個中章投秒也有地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10961.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10989.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
地方政府對於自己城市的建設的交通建設的積極度也有很大的關係但是不管怎麼樣交通部作為國家整個交通這個主管或者督導的這個機關我覺得這個事情我們不能置身事外不能置身事外所以本席作為台中選出來的立委特別是台中海線選出來的立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10989.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11002.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
本席還是要回過這個問題從TPASS的問題來看我們台中這個交通建設的這些問題我最近看到台中市政府送了橘縣的案子當然藍縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11004.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11023.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我們也還沒開始動啦不過局限也送這個本席不反對多線齊發嘛趕快讓台中的捷運的交通網絡能夠早日來合併然後得到中央的補助這個過去本席這麼多年來持續的在爭取所以市政府送案的速度快本席並不反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11024.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11038.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
但是本席對局限我就非常的有意見那如果部長你了解臺中的這個地理狀況你就可以知道捷運局限這個001站叫做清泉崗國際機場那清泉崗國際機場離我們海線就清水市區大概3公里 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11047.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11071.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
大概3公里我也把圖標出來給大家看一下大概3公里但是市政府本席已經講過很多次但是本席是中央民代市政府大概也不大鳥我那所以這個短短的3公里卻不願意把它規劃進去所以我看了市政府送到交通部的案子裡面還是依然沒有這3公里 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11073.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11097.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
這三公里串聯了可以串聯高鐵可以讓海線過去發展長期最重要的一個城鎮就清水鎮覆地都可以整個包進去但市政府卻不送案所以本席我一直講過我再三強調這個市政府當然市長有他的權利他對於整個城市的規劃發展本席尊重因為他是民選的市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11098.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11108.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
但是啊 送到中央來的案子只要沒有把清水納進去本期對經費 中央經費補助預算本期就大有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11109.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11136.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
本席就大有意見所以我會在這裡就先預告因為這個只是送案來審查那你要通過到未來整個細部設計到綜合規劃細部設計還有一段時間所以對於補助款項的撥補還有一段時間但本席現在先講我現在再講一次如果局限沒有把清水納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11137.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11166.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
本席對於中央的補助我就會有很強烈的反對意見我希望台中發展但不可以老是把海線給忘了海線已經相對落後的地方這3公里不把它補起來就交通專業來講就區域的發展而言這個都認為是很不正義的事情所以你的TPASS做得再好滿意度再高對我們那裡的人來講感覺很低 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11167.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11171.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
為什麼感覺很低 啊我問一下就沒有捷運堂坐到時 這TPASS對我什麼錄影 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11173.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11201.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
對不對海線雙軌我們爭取那麼久還好我們當時把把整個台中環線做切割本席在當副院長的時候切割啊要求不可以把海線的雙軌化跟環線一起評估一起評估到現在還在評估嘛所以我們當時把它切割讓雙軌化單獨進行評估所以才可以在今年1月啊這個通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11202.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11203.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11204.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11229.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
中央的這個相關的這些可行性評估才可以通過那為什麼要切割因為雙軌化不做我們海線的火車班次就非常的少都會集中在山線而海線到今天還在單軌所以總算我們做了一件對的事情你們也這個從善如流遵照本席的意見把它做切割所以今天可以完成可行性評估接下來進入細部設計跟這個綜合規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11235.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11261.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那雙軌化完成之後我們總算才對比如說你的TPASS我們會有感覺一點是因為我們的火車班次增多了我們海線要去高鐵要到要南北這個做鐵路的時候我們使用這個TPASS的頻率才會高嘛人次才會高嘛否則你中央訂了再好的政策都只是強化那個區域的不公平都只是強化了區域的不正義 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11262.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11285.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
所以本席今天要探討的是從我們海線的例子來告訴交通部當你們對於地方政府當然我講過市政府要怎麼規劃線路要怎麼畫這是他的權利啦但是中央在面對地方政府要上來爭取經費的時候對於這個區域的公平性啊對於區域的正義一定要這個堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11286.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11305.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
那本席這個要求不是不合理嗎如果說我要求你把這路線再拉個20公里30公里到某一個地方這個其實是說實在話本位主義太強但是海線的鐵路雙軌化局限延伸到清水其實這個都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11307.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11324.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
政府應該做的沒有道理海線山線塞得要命大家火車密集到那個程度然後火車排不進去但是海線卻放任他這個當軌所以交通部先做了一件對的事情海線讓他雙軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11326.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11354.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
那當然接下來施工要快接下來局限短短的這個3公里就可以串接起這個海線阿非常大的一個區域但你卻到這裡市政府不規劃那交通部沒意見所以我沒有辦法要求市長但我可以要求部長在接下來市府的你們相關的對決運局限的會議跟溝通裡面一定要把本期的意見強烈的表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11355.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11367.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
強烈的表達否則的話本席會認為這個就是強化的區域不正義啦再一次強化區域的不正義所以這一點我希望部長可以來重視這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11370.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11395.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
也跟委員報告就是像現在臺中現在只有一條綠線不過藍線目前已經有比較好的進展在過去委員多次的這個催促跟協助現在藍線已經在進行設計的階段那只要機設經過工程會的審議通過之後就可以來辦理相關的發包的階段所以我想藍線已經進入接近實質建設的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11397.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11425.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那現在局限目前看起來規劃上就是缺這個往清水這一段的是不是來延伸那這部分我們會來跟臺中市政府再做溝通那來看怎麼樣讓這個部分的這個大家的期待能夠可以得到來實現好這是我只是不想講說我知道啦你對臺中市政府的你也不能要求市長怎麼規劃我也不能要求市長怎麼規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11426.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11445.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
但是別忘了臺中市局限要蓋他必須要中央來支持經費中央如果不支持這個局限是不可能可以蓋的所以我希望在審查的時候你一定要跟市政府講這個是蔡其昌堅持強烈要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11446.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11473.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
沒有做到這個事情我覺得這個是太荒謬的事太離譜太荒謬了海線不是二等公民啊海線雖然人口沒有市區多啊但是都叫台中市啊回去把那些放在旁邊 遺棄在旁邊讓海線的人當二等公民三等公民這合理嗎這個短短的一小段的路然後可以讓運量也可以增加然後他其實如果 如果啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11475.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11494.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
這個市長是我來當我就把他拉到台中港了啦我再連接台中港那又是三公里而已嘛台中港現在發展成這個樣子然後你不把他連結這個我也覺得很荒謬好啦這個後話啦重點就是不可以再放任中央一定要強烈表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11497.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11525.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
這個對於這個規劃專業以及區域公平的問題這三公里沒有道理不做最後一個藍線啊剛剛本來我今天沒有要問了時間關係但部長也提到了本席這麼多年來在幫忙協助推動藍線中央的這些相關的經費的協助然後我要問的只有一個問題那個本席要求啊那個港務公司跟捷運共購這個案子交通部有沒有如你們已經承諾嘛齁這個當時的行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11526.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11551.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
也承諾本席臺中港務公司的大樓已經老舊了臺中港長期沒有新的辦公大樓捷運站在那個地方供購市政府我看他也改了圖了那我們到底這個南線到了這個臺中港港務公司的這一站這個新大樓的規劃有沒有同時如期的在進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11552.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11553.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
現在請黃建豪委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11586.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11590.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
好 謝謝主席 那我們一樣先請交通部我們李部長請李部長貴賢好 部長好 部長今天我們討論的TPASS我想也涉及到了這個大眾運輸系統的問題那我也事先肯定也感謝我看交通部在禮拜一的下午也發了一個貼文來講說臺中的捷運五線起發要來支持臺中發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11618.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11631.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
臺中捷運五條線,不管是現在的路線延伸,準備要發放的藍線,還有正在送案的橘線跟紫線,還有未來的其他的各項路線來講,交通部會全力來支持。 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11635.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11662.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
信心喊話一下部長如果你真的這個按照臉書貼文的五線啟發全力支持台中把它做好我想部長有一天來選台中市長搞不好會當選我想台中人都很務實也很現實如果你幫我把這蓋好了我想大家都會非常感謝你所以說部長先跟大家跟本席簡單說明一下到底這五線啟發的這個狀況目前的交通部的進度跟市府的幫的這個狀況下面交通部要怎麼協助市府來做到這個五線啟發的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11664.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11693.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
首先謝謝委員的這個我想第一個就是說藍線藍線目前是整個這幾條線裡面進度最快因為它已經經過中規已經核定而且環評也過環評也通過了所以現在只要它的相關的設計基設的部分經過工程會的審議那它就可以進入包括像用地取得還有包括招標的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11694.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11694.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
臺灣大道、台鐵、相關捷運站、共購方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11724.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11724.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
委員會長 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11739.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11758.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那假設那些細節困難不是馬上立即就可以解決的那也許我們就先繼續往下走比如說可行性先核定那有些部分細節困難要要要後續解決的部分在中規之前把它處理把它完成比如說像綠線延伸到彰化 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11760.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11779.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
當時也是可行先核定但是彰化的這個部分有一個有一個都市計畫張東都市計畫還沒有確定那當時就附帶的方式就是在在中歸的階段之前都市計畫要發布實施所以我想用這樣的原則可以讓一些計畫的進行審議不會因為卡在細節 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11782.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11804.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
好部長謝謝其實我就是要跟你講這個就是過去有藍線的經驗有綠線本就是原則這現在綠線這條的經驗很多時候就真的在可歸在文書作業上這個在時間上拖太久了包含說我們這次送案的這個局限當年送案是民國105年現在民國113年當然都還在這個紙上作業的階段所以我們希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11806.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11833.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
記取前面這兩條線的這目前的藍線已經過了這個綜合規劃那綠線已經正在跑了這兩個線的這個經驗就是文書的這個文件上的作業啊這個會議的流程啊我們希望能夠加速一點有任何的疑問有任何的問題因為我其實過去看到藍線也好綠線延伸也好或是綠線也好很多時候在這個可惜性規劃的時候都是因為會議不斷的開完之後有意見回去再等三個月再回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11834.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11862.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
不能有意見再回去三個月再回來有時候光是一件事情一條線來來回回可能一年都不會有實際的進度所以我們希望這個五線齊發這個五線齊發既然這個部長交通部有這樣子的願景那我們希望在這個行政效率上面能夠加速專家學者有什麼想法有什麼意見一次的提給台中市政府讓市政府能夠一次的來給他回應那儘速的縮短這個時間點部長有沒有辦法做到這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11862.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11886.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
我想台中市是已經是全國第二大城市那確實是應該要有一個健全的捷運的網路才能夠讓台中市民行的安全行的便利更加的提升而且也符合一個國際都市的一個規模跟這個架構那我們會後續這幾條路線我們都會秉持這樣的原則跟中央地方是一個夥伴關係那從來促成 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11888.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11916.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
好 縣部長那提到TPASS的問題其實今天為什麼特別提捷運我給大家看一個數據我這個不是針對高雄但是因為剛好這個南高屏跟中張頭的月票都是999元我們用相同的基準來比較這個數字當然高雄捷運的月運量人次比台中多 非常多那台中現在月運量是只有124萬平均124萬以6月來講的話那高雄捷運加輕軌是602萬那使用TPASS的人數跟比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11917.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11932.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
臺中捷運的確明顯的使用月票的比例是83%換句話說所以臺中現在雖然就一條捷運但他使用的這個比例來講其實非常非常高所以我們還是要支持也是支持也肯定說當初推動這TPASS那但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11933.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11954.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
我們使用比例高但是問題就在於說我的運量整體的捷運就只有一條所以為什麼今天特別要去提捷運五線奇葩是對台中那麼重要就是因為這個TPASS的確對市民來講他是一個能夠有效的利用的這個工具那我們希望說未來如果台中的月運量人數跟我們台中的捷運的這個規劃的這個線路 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11957.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11980.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
跟追上高雄之後我們如果維持這樣同樣的月票比例我想這個TPASS在推動大眾運輸上面就有實際的效果但是我們回到這個實際面上來看這個TPASS月票使用情況我們當初在推動TPASS的時候除了去讓使用者更方便之外其實本身也應該是希望說有更多的人來使用大眾運輸但是我們從數據上來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11983.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11998.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
每個月每個月大概每個月的起起伏伏都會有變動但是很明顯的從去年推出來到現在大約去年的10月跟去年的12月人數突然增加到70萬但是今年以來大概人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11999.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12026.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
維持在60萬一個月60萬人次左右的時間我想全臺灣兩天300萬人啊一個月大概只有60萬人使用大眾運輸系統而且多數集中在北北基桃那剩下大概80在北北基桃剩下的才是其他地區所以我想問一下部長看到這個數字全臺灣現在加起來一個月有60萬人使用這TPASS的狀況有沒有什麼方式你們有沒有想辦法去提升TPASS的使用的情況是 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12030.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12047.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
確實目前大概平均是64萬就是從實施以來到目前為止那確實是我們覺得這個還有成長空間那所以我們在年底會推出TPASS 2.0那針對不是月的使用量比如說它是短天期的 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12048.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12048.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
還有其他的方案我們會持續來評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12063.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12082.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
對於觀光客短期票這份我覺得這個是比較屬於觀光但是我們一樣我想要提到的是說其實應該是針對國內的使用者因為像比如說像TPASS它本身現在的方向是以鎖定區域比如說我剛剛提到的中張頭、高高屏、北北基桃等等是用區域的方式但是以本席自己的生活經驗過去的生活經驗包含可能部長也是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12083.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12099.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我們以前我是台中人在台北念書所以我固定我可能每個禮拜我都要回台中那像這樣的學生通勤票他是不是也可以有一個吃到飽的狀況一個吃到飽的方案提供跨縣式的或是自選方案當然這是需要經過細部的設計讓層級之間的移動 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12103.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12132.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
跨區域的成績移動他也是很固定式的我覺得要使用我可能用年度的或一季或一個月的方式來使用我覺得這個也是另外的方向去思考這一塊的這個族群因為我想多數的這個很多大專業比如說很多大專業教在台北在這個北北基桃但是全台灣有很多學生他是北上來這邊念書或者是流動人口流動要固定的往返的這一塊尤其看到你看到現在包括說我們很多車站也好不論台北也好台中也好高雄也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12132.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12132.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
李孟諺 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12151.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12151.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
部長可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12173.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12174.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
謝謝黃建豪委員發言完畢現在請邱若驊委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12206.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12209.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
謝謝主席 請李部長請李部長部長好是 委員好是 部長我們看到TPASS 月票至去年1月上路至今已經滿週年了那其中我們看到我們桃園市捷運113年1月到5月的運量成長約3 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12233.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12234.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
市區公車成長政府有限,您認為主要的原因是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12262.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12267.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
全國性來看確實公車的成長大概只有8.4是低於捷運14.9台鐵的17.7是確實是有比較低全國性也是這樣那您認為這個原因是為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12282.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12307.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我覺得大概就是跟公車因為他會他不像軌道他是比較準點軌道的時間是比較容易控制那公車有時候會受市區塞車的影響所以民眾對他的那個搭乘的意願或是信任度會受有時候會拖班或者是因為塞車會影響到班次的準確度這是其中一個原因那另外一個主要的因素是因為司機嚴重的短缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12309.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12320.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
這是另外一個對這是另外一個那根據我們桃園市交通局的統計今年年初桃園還有272名的客運司機他的缺額逮捕那在我們全市的駕駛人數是27%那這邊下一張簡報謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12325.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12348.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
那另外112年次我們看到桃園各景區的旅遊人次高達4046萬人次那目前我們市區的公車班次恐怕無法營業這樣子的遊客數那缺駕駛遊客多那也會造成發車等他的那個區間時間拉長那影響有旅客搭乘的意願那對於市區人力荒部長局長你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12349.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12379.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
是 確實是市區客運還有長途的國道客運的駕駛目前都有缺的這個現象那我們交通部大概朝幾個方向在協助包括我們把駕駛的年紀原來限制是要65歲以下提到68那本席也有和 不好意思這邊先中斷部長一下本席也有和我們的王前部長討論過那先前有討論說要開放外籍的駕駛員那這部分進行到哪了 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12379.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12402.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
是 這個部分目前已經把方案提到勞動部了那勞動部現在正在審議的階段那勞動部原則上也支持這個引進類似中階的外籍的人力來投入那另外過去我們包括提升包括協助引進新的駕駛的方案大概已經幫全國各個客運大概增加了2900多位還在審議的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12404.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12425.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
還在審議的階段應該我認為下半年就會有好結果下半年因為7月4號的時候行政院院會我們桃園市的蘇俊斌副市長也有分享我們桃園今年2月中推出的一個計畫叫做授訓級就業計畫那也受到卓院長的高度認同那後續我們交通部有執行就是參考這項計畫嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12426.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12449.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
其實現在已經有一個類跟他類似比如說新進的司機駕駛那在受訓期間每天可以補助900多塊的津貼那另外如果能夠留才久用留任超過一年還有相關的3萬塊的這個補助所以最高一個駕駛新進訓來可以領13萬多所以這是我們的市區的公車包括客運是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12450.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12453.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
臺北與桃園之間的國道客運缺司機的問題交通部應該協助業者後續我們交通部有和業者討論嗎後續的實際的成效針對我們解決缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12478.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12502.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
司機這一部分 國道客運桃園這一段是不是請局長跟您報告一下目前的狀況因為跟各位報告就是說大概就是說缺司機的部分包括就是說這個提升這個公路客運跟市區客運的他們的營運的一個成本的補貼那這樣子的話其實就是說對於駕駛的薪資的部分其實就是能夠提升讓他們能夠留財或是徵財 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12506.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12528.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
訓練方面,桃園市跟公路局一樣,訓練也是要讓他們能夠取得大型車的駕照,取得駕照之後,能夠媒合到他們其他的相關,比如說桃園的客運業者的公司去上班,這些部分的話,其實在訓練的過程中,其實都是訓練完,考上駕照,就可以到這個業者的 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12529.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12530.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
提供提供提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12558.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12584.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
旅客運輸還有高鐵接駁功能那也有參考國道客運跨三縣市的程序運輸那應該都是屬於我們中央服務的範圍那部長請問桃園機場捷運月票1200那它的營收補助比例那目前中央還有地方政府是各50百分之各50那不符合比例原則那既然機捷有我們的國際旅客運輸還有高鐵接駁功能加上one fund |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12584.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12585.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
部長可以做協助嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12609.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12623.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
跟委員報告其實這次TPASS的投入陶傑他的運量大概提升了將近6成6成多那已經從虧損變成轉虧為盈了他已經進入每天的運量有10萬人次以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12624.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12628.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
致於這個TPASS負擔比例因為這個有全國性的一致的標準所以沒有辦法為單獨的縣市去做不同的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12648.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12657.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
是那會後本席也會再提供部長資料那再請您做參考好謝謝部長謝謝局長謝謝區議員發言完畢現在請盧明哲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12675.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12678.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
謝謝主席：有請我們李部長請李部長部長好 委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12686.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12706.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
因為事實上這三個禮拜五才剛剛完成我們交通組的總質詢針對議題其實也是著重有的時候跟你討論到我們這個機場捷運相關的一些問題那我也趁著是這樣啦因為新的院長我們新的部長很多的一些訊息我們是希望說政策是延續的 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12707.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12728.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
所以我們會花這段的時間會把很多過去到底談的怎麼樣進度如何也希望能夠部長能夠了解當然今天談到一個TPASS在去年上路之後我們看到在我們桃園電子報的一個報導在去年的7到12月整體的公共運輸系統事實上明顯的一個成長成長到86.7%這是根據桃園電子報的一個當時的一個報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12733.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12759.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
那我沒有看到到今天為止今天7月10號我下午早上早上的時候我拿到最新的一個數字了就在整個機場捷運就像剛剛部長也有在在這個說嘛機場捷運我們是用112年到今年113年這在6個月同期它的用量到底呈現什麼樣的一個成長的一個數字因為畢竟你的TPASS是在年中才上路的嘛所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12759.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12787.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
也看到蠻明顯的一個成長總共從去年的一到六月份去年每一天每日大概七萬七人次使用季節到了今年的一到六月因為剛平均出來他的每日的人次達到十一萬多所以大概成長百分之四十二那我也請這個大眾決定公司去分析啦因為有很多因素嘛也要謝謝鐵道局謝謝交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12788.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12805.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
去年的7月也正好A22通道市區因為多了一站嘛很多市區人就來使用了蠻多元的理由但是我們在預估因為TPASS這個理由至少10%至少也造成了一個非常大幅度的一個成長來帶動成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12808.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12811.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
現在回到在我們總諮詢相關的一些問題當然這個減價驗收也是驗收但是現在的一個情況產生的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12820.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12845.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
原本的 要求的車數 達不到 沒辦法原本要求的班距 你應該短短 某個時間10分鐘你就來一班可以載客人 那也做不到那沒有辦法 這已經是事實了啦現在 我們這個討論也不是部長的錯啦 這都 但是已經造成這樣的一個情況所以呢 在載客人次上面 有多重的影響 其中 這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12846.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12846.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
李卓人議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12872.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12889.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
中壢火車站的話那就有很多小站火車的客戶他不見得會坐高鐵啦他就坐這個火車過來從中壢直接轉運那包括他的沿線還有很多的園區的完工所以我們是擔心這件事那你剛剛特別有說集結購車補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12893.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12915.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
目前我們在之前達到一個初步的一個共識本來我們桃園大眾捷運公司桃園市政府是希望能夠有這個9直6普總共15列車那後面初步討論的結果變成了直搭車6列跟普通車4列6直4普的這樣的一個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12916.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12936.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
不過我要在這裡特別拜託這也是我上次在前任院長跟部長上一次總質詢的時候因為現在全部都換人了因為我覺得這中間有些不合理的部分希望這個部長回憶要好好研究一下因為現在中央初步給我們的補助說直搭車6列那由中央來補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12938.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12938.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12958.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12976.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
零啊 不補助因為什麼呢 是你們桃園市甚至新北市 台北市你們自己承繼城市中的運輸所以不補助那我想部長先你初步回答一下好不好你覺得這樣一個補助的一個比例分配理由你自己的初步看法如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12978.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13001.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
我的了解這個是根據交通委員會當時有一個會議的記錄來延伸那另外確實是機場捷運當時特別因為他是肩負著國門的這個交通所以不然一般的捷運的車廂的補助在各個直轄市是由各直轄市這邊自己來負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13002.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13027.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
因為季節不一樣所以剛剛委員特別問到因為現在季節事實上都還沒有交接都還是交通部的你要講財產誰的但我們今天站在這裡這整個資產全部都還是交通部的目前我也都還是中央的所以我們在討論這件事情純粹用地方政府的角度去討論是跟其他的一個軌道系統還是真的不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13027.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13044.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
那你剛剛講的是那一次的這個會刊那天我們的地方考察那也是我們辦的所以在討論的過程就是我剛剛跟你有說明了本來是希望他們能夠有15列車後面達到初步的一個共識說大概只有10列車 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13046.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13069.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
接下來也謝謝鐵道局那之前王部長在細部的去討論說大概初步補助的原則是這樣那我是想請教一下因為普通車在沉寂的一個運輸那未來中南北的軌道工程只要負責沉寂運輸的如果更新申請列車的補助是不是都是0%我就問一下跟鄉親好交代啦你不要說今天給我是0% |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13070.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13093.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
結果人家50%那這個東西我這個委員就做的比較弱一點就這是不是一個原則原則性就是說因為你這個普通車是跑你成績的一些的站所以我們不管是台北新北桃園台中高雄哪裡來只要他的功能是這樣我都不補助是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13094.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13116.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
我的瞭解因為捷運是把它視為是地方自治事項所以是嗎?是不是嗎?都是在興建階段我是希望說興建階段有時候興建階段就會有購車會跟著購車一起我今天這樣的去說最主要的一個原因是就做個結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13117.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13145.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
因為你的直達車只有幾站現在比較大的那個我有那個反白給你看直達車就停這些站你說他負責機場的一個運輸然後呢其他的國內各站的各站的人他們要去機場那只有去間車可以坐啊那再來我們再過幾年A223中立火車站中立火車站坐好之後那非常多可能從南部來的小站的一個坐火車的鄉親長輩 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13146.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13172.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
他也要去機場啊他也要出國啊那這個責任誰肩負呢一樣是區間車嘛再來在高鐵站也是一樣我們其實在桃園高鐵站只有在尖峰的時間來搭配幾台其他也沒有嘛所以剛剛講了半天就是你說國門運輸的一個責任其實區間車也佔了非常非常大的功能所以我這個部分我是希望建議我事實上上 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13173.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13202.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
上次總諮詢我也是建議你們回去研究一下除非你們研究結果說我剛剛講的其他區間車都沒有人會坐這個去機場也沒有人機場的旅客會坐這個到哪裡去這不可能嘛有人要坐到桃園高鐵站也只有區間車可以選擇在大部分的一個時段所以我們希望不要是0%啦不要是0%你無論如何他肩負多少國門的責任要講個道理給我們聽請你們回去研究好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13203.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13230.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
第二 最後一個是事實上高雄的輕軌也在排隊所以我剛剛在講因為城市城市之間大家正面的我們希望每一個城市都好那他17列車也要跟你們爭取全部都沒有繞到國門之都他是一個成績的一個車如果你剛剛跟我講是0%那未來到你這邊都是0%那我搞不好也接受啊可是我覺得這樣子是不好的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13231.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13232.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
謝謝魯明哲委員 發言完畢 現在請劉許廷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13264.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13267.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
謝謝主席 交通部部長有請李部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13274.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13298.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
市長午安 辛苦了這個雖然今天排這個TPASS的專題報告要謝謝召委這是我們桃園非常非常關心的一個題目不過針對這個交通部提出來的報告這個本席就有點小意見這根據你的未來的這個政策的方向這一點我非常滿意就是說我們要透過再推出這個短期試用方案嘛比如說週套票或者是雙週套票這方向本席完全支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13299.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13322.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
任何有助於提升大眾運輸使用率的政策我們都非常支持這一點非常好但這不代表我們回過頭來去檢視這一年TPASS的政策成效的時候要放鬆一對這政策雖然是對的但我想中間的問題我們還是要做一下釐清特別是本席來自於桃園大眾運輸通勤族最大宗的居住城市通勤人次這個320萬人次非常可怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13322.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13350.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
但是我今天在你們報告裡面我比較遺憾的是我沒有看到詳細的運量分析也就是說我們要檢視這個政策的成效的時候我當然要知道各個公共運輸的運量成長了多少我現在看到裡面看到目前我看到只有說全部平均大概是12.7%部長還有沒有一些補充的資料我們因為本期是來自於桃園我們就看北北基桃這個區塊就好因為你每個區塊不一樣北北基桃這個公共運輸的運量總共成長多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13356.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13360.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
其中軌道運輸的運量增加多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13366.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13376.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
臺北捷運、機場捷運等等臺北捷運是成長11.26新北捷運成長23.27桃園是成長68桃園最多嘛對不對60幾%對不對68市區公共運輸公共汽車啦市區公車運量成長多少整體是全國是成長8.4你有沒有北北機桃的數據因為全國那個有入網的問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13394.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13398.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
短途國道客運的數字是多少北北基桃的國道客運 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13402.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13428.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
沒關係這一樣你後補啦但這個數字最重要好不好本期之所以問這些問題問得比較詳細的原因是這樣這政策好但滿一年之後要了解這個政策的成效當然要知道各個公共運輸的成效占比你才知道我怎麼樣去調度未來的交通政策嘛那你剛剛講了這麼多的一些你手上有的數據其實你發現這個桃園捷運就是所謂的機場捷運的占比其實是最高的可是同時也表示如果你全國平均12%但機場捷運就占了60幾%那 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13429.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13445.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
那麼桃園自己內部的輸出統計運量成長甚至到85%左右但不管是我們桃園自己的資料或者是交通部的資料顯然都共同指向一件事就是機場捷運一枝獨秀成長很多但是就代表其他的項目成長有限這難道不是一個問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13447.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13471.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
機場捷運當然因為人口稠密剛好做變成重劃區 廠商開發有成所以它有它成長的一定的道理但是我們要撇除機場捷運這個特別的個案之後下了這麼多的資源如果運量只有十幾%十幾%的成長我認為是還有改善的空間第二個我本期為什麼要特別問短途國道客運的問題就是因為本期在基層的了解短途國道客運有些時候第一個它成長有限就我所知是低於10%那甚至有些路線因為機場捷運搶客人 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13473.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13496.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
所以它反而變成雪上加霜﹖人被吸走營運未見改善那凡此種種就發現一件事就是說雖然總體的運量是增加了但它難道不是各個大眾運輸工具之間的人的互相流動嗎有可能對不對所以我覺得這個政策真正的成效指標真正的KPI應該是私人運具啊汽車機車的使用率下降多少請問交通部針對這件事有沒有調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13507.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13519.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
我希望我趕快拿到這個數字好不好私人運劇的數量下降因為這事關未來我們要花多少資源然後他的政策效益我希望交通部一定要以私人運劇下降比例作為重要指標為什麼因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13520.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13548.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
我們要投入TPASS中央也好地方也好大概幾百億幾百億聽起來很多阿但是我講另外一個例子我蓋一條捷運難道不用五百億嗎我蓋一條新的高速公路難道不用三四百億嗎可是你這兩百億給全國的大眾運輸提升我認為是我認為不但不用減少反而應該增加可是要增加增加有道理我們不能讓這個政策只照顧本來就使用大眾運輸的人我們要用這樣子的政策跟其他的配套去帶動大眾運輸的品質提升讓私人運去減少阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13548.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13563.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
讓本來開車騎車的人轉做大眾運輸工具這樣子你這筆錢下去的效益就不是只是提升大眾運輸使用率你同時解決了塞車的問題停車的問題那他就變成一個你可能是全交通部裡面縱效最高的一個資源投入嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13564.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13581.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
所以說這些數據我要拜託今天因為時間有限我請交通部趕快收集我剛剛問的北北機桃裡面市區公車短途國道客運還有軌道運輸的運量分別增加多少私人運具的使用率下降了多少這些數據請盡快來提供本期非常支持我認為這個上路一年初步成效是有成果的 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13582.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13609.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
但是針對這些後面的細節的數據分析你給予客運業者支持啊市區公車支持啊路線路網的調整、微調啊做合理的整併這些都是交通部後面要做的配套措施這些一起到位之後下降私人運具的時候我認為不只兩百億啊你每年花五百億我都認為這是一筆值得的投資啦希望交通部用這樣的心態好好的來整頓大眾運輸提升大眾運輸的使用率可以嗎好謝謝部長辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13613.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13634.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
好 謝謝劉許廷委員 發言完畢 現在請陳俊宇委員發言好 謝謝主席我們李昭偉 我們有請我們李部長請李部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13638.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13663.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
好部長午安辛苦了委員好部長我想請教一下TPASS現在在宜蘭這個使用率我們每天大概有7000位的這個民眾在使用那對於這個部分因為宜蘭縣除了推出這個1800的這個套票以外還有另外一個1200那之前我在3月19號曾經在總諮詢的時候詢問過我們之前王部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13664.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13680.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
對於這個部分因為兩張票券的使用這個票卡讓民眾在出門的時候會衍生許多非常困擾的問題那如果拿錯卡被扣款也是被白扣了所以我覺得說是不是兩張卡可以合併可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13681.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13701.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
當時是我們交通部是有答應就是會後會跟縣政府來做這個協調那看起來目前這個依然縣政府的態度應該是考量到成本的問題所以在這個兩張卡合併的方面他們可能目前沒有這個想法那未來我們交通部是不是可以再邀集縣政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13703.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13720.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
針對這個問題再做一次這個比較緊密的協調我的瞭解目前宜蘭是有一個是宜蘭縣內是750那另外宜蘭跟台北跨城是1800那最近他們也會提一個宜蘭跨城計再加雙北 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13721.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13739.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
因為他可能到了台北還要在雙北之間的這個搭乘各種大眾運輸那個是2300那這三種卡怎麼樣整合一般來講民眾應該只會在三種選一種比較合理跟部長報告一下就是他現在是1800 750另外還有個1200 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13742.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13743.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
這個我請局長跟您報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13759.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13783.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
跟委員報告因為宜蘭縣府這邊就是說大概也有提案到局裡面來做審查那2300元的這個月票方案其實6月份我們有給他核定了那核定的話其實未來就是說當然就是這一個因為他要整合這個基北北桃的1200所以會變成說基北北桃的這一個他們的系統修改的幅度會蠻大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13785.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13809.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
那所以就是說如果說要這個整個是變成一張卡片的話其實那個基北北桃這邊投入的成本是蠻高的所以沿岸縣府6月份提報到局裡面來的時候是討論就是說如果說已經有買到這個1200塊的這一個基北北桃的這一個TPASS的票卡的時候那再加1100這樣子的話就是說也可以取得這個1800塊的這個北宜的這個廊道的這個1800塊的月票 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13814.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13841.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
那所以就是說大概就是說還是維持2300那這個相關的補貼的話其實這個中央也都有給相關的補助那確實是不是說目前他可能是初步是這樣子當然未來的整合如果說能夠用更節省的這個修改的幅度那這樣子的話其實我們也可以來那個協助宜蘭縣來處理這樣子好 局長我拜託就是我們在未來北北基討在討論的時候能夠納入以 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13843.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13867.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
對,能夠納入宜蘭就北北機陶宜一併做檢討看能不能把所有的這個優惠就整合成一張卡這樣子這個部分拜託局長那另外剛剛局長您也有說到這個700元的部分因為他是1800加1200然後縣政府目前是退700塊那退700塊的部分我在3月19也曾經詢問過這個部分是不是我們交通部這邊可以來幫助宜蘭縣政府對700塊的部分來做補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13871.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13897.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
因為這個部分還要再精算跟委員報告就是說因為全國的那個TPASS的定價因為定價是比如說你到底要收多少錢是地方政府定的可是中央有一個原則也就是說我們基本上就是說我們最多就是整個票價在這個成本裡面不能低於三折啦所以就是說我們也就是說中央最多就是說整個的如果說這個需要補貼的大概是70% |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13898.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13920.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
那所以精算以後當然如果說這個精算以後這個這個700塊如果說有一些部分他都是不會低於三成的部分的話我們其實是可以補貼他的好這個部分再請我們局長這邊再精算看看那另外我們現在後續將推出這個這個TPASS台灣PASS這個TPASS2.0 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13922.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13940.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
那這個部分他可能就是台灣PASS的升級版那相關的這個配套我相信應該非常的這個完整那也可能對於這個乘車的民眾可能會有許多的幫助可是我感覺到就是說事實上對於觀光旅宿業來講並沒有實質的一個幫助的誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13943.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13960.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
所以我有一個建議就是說對於我們未來再推出的這個升級版的部分是不是可以考量到觀光旅宿業那對於他們的部分我們是不是可以在這個車票補助的時候憑住宿票券可以再減少多少費用有沒有可能是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13961.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13965.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
這部長再請局長跟部長多費心另外我再用一點時間我還是拜託我們部長因為說實在的在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13991.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
14008.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
國道的車流量我上次詢問過就是說我們在近期內好像有發現到國道5號的車流量已經有回復的情況可是這個回復我這幾天觀察並不是這個到宜蘭的遊客住宿的情況他可能是單日的旅遊 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
14009.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14032.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
他去到宜蘭之後可能今天傍晚就回程了所以並沒有辦法達到讓這個呂蘇業的這個住房率提高那我這幾天觀察我們宜蘭縣的這個觀光呂蘇業住房率還是沒有辦法回復到去年的這個同時間的八成現在目前應該是大概三成多而已也沒有辦法有比較好的方式來這個復甦所以我還是建議說在0403 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14037.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14062.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
正後的相關這個振興方案拜託這個部長是不是可以重新審慎評估讓宜蘭縣加入這個輔助的方案我們再來做一個包括住宿率的部分的一個整體評估來考量好 這個部長再拜託你以上謝謝部長 謝謝局長好 謝謝陳俊宇委員發言完畢現在請游浩委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14084.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14088.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
謝謝大會主席召委那有請部長還有局長請部長、局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14095.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14119.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
委員好部長好那本席在這裡還是要再次感謝也肯定我們部長之前本席所提的終結延伸到南投在後續看到相關的報導您有延伸到南投的許多的意見也都有在媒體前公開表達交通部的重視在這裡也代表南投縣政府跟您表達致謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14120.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14145.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
那包括局長其實在這個公路的部分其實在南投縣地方的幹部都都積極的協助配合那也謝謝局長那本期在這裡依舊是就教這個我們南投縣鄉親的這個交通權益那以及交通南投縣那個交通的發展如何能夠更為便利那來進行探討那延續剛才陳委員所提到的那其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14146.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14169.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
上次我們有請教部長就是有關於因為南投縣的鄉親在竹山路區他的生活圈跟雲林縣包括斗六他是比較相近那時候有請局長到時候在南投縣政府以及雲林縣政府在去溝通協調的時候能夠積極來去做一個就是串聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14170.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14170.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
請問目前進度如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14185.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14200.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
跟委員報告就說因為像雲林縣的就是說他TPASS的這一個月票的方案的話其實有一些的那個公路客運的路線是從南投過來就是說南投雲林銜接的這條路線的話其實是有納入整個月票方案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14201.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14222.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
那所以就是說更就是因為因為臨近的這一個比如說南投現在他是在這個中張頭苗裡面不過就是說因為南投雲林那這些部分的話就是比如說包括既有的各縣裡面自己本身就是說把這個跨縣市的這個公路坑已經拉進去了那如果說他有更進一步的就是說比如說方案的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14222.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14239.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
其實像最近有些鄰近的縣市他們也在談論說他們這個生活圈業在同一個縣市裡面往北往南其實是有不同的一個範圍所以他們現在就是說相關的縣市其實也有相關的一些提案那我們也都會願意來就是說來協助他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14240.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14260.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
那還是積極的就是請局長這邊能夠在兩個縣市之間的溝通那能夠強化因為目前這件事因為鄉親他們反映這路線上來講他因為跨縣市在適用範圍的這個類別上造成民眾的一個就是不適應或者是他們也反映需求嘛那同樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14261.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14283.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
我要接著請教PTT的第1頁就是有關於這個價格的部分那因為他有一個價格的落差那我想先接著請教一下部長有關於財化法的一個重新版本那部長因為你也擔任過行政秘書長你是不是會覺得其實財化法也需要做一個重新的一個檢討或是重新的一個審視這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14287.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14314.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
財劃法目前我的瞭解確實是各縣市政府都期待能夠有一些比如說增加統籌分配款不過從中央執政的角度確實是不只是地方的建設我們還有很多包括像國防外交等等都是需要還有挹注產業都是需要中央集中國力來做重新的資源的分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14315.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14341.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
所以確實是有他的這個不同的角度我是覺得重新檢討啦重新檢視採訪法因為我們看到這個是中張投的這一個資料那包括中張投苗他的這個價格那在南投縣、彰化縣都是699那但是在台中市他是299那所以說在這樣子的一個票價的一個比例啊我們看到的是富者越富、貧者越貧 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14342.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14357.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
在南投縣要去搭乘這樣子客運的反而是更多的長者他們反而不付他們這樣子的一個票價那其實看得起就是說生不起孩子買不起房子甚至連搭不起車子都有可能那如何能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14357.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14378.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
能夠在這個票價的部分能夠去做一個補償或是補貼來協調縣市政府當然這就凸顯了臺中市的財源他們是比較豐沛那像南投縣算是窮縣那這樣子來講我們大的價格也比別人高那如何在這個交通部這邊能夠協助讓那個價格能夠更為合理能夠進行補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14385.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14394.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
補貼其實像這個直轄市的部分其實我們像TPASS的部分直轄市的主管的這些公車捷運的話其實我們只有補貼50% |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14395.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14397.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
提出對縣民的補貼所以南投縣這邊是提 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14425.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14454.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
所以說在這裡就凸顯了財化法的一個重要性那這個表示說如果地方新市政府的財源如果較為豐沛的話也可以配合中央的政策來讓許多的包括比較社會福利的部分有更多的經費的來源能夠補貼那同樣的也在拜託這個部長跟局長這邊一樣在持續的協調這個南投縣政府以及包括地方政府的部分如果在票價可以更符合民眾的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14455.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14456.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
登記諮詢委員．均已發言完畢．做以下決定報告及詢討完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14484.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14506.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
委員．於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料．或未及答覆部分．請交通部競速以書面答覆如本次全體會議．為本會期最後一次．亦是入授權主席合併後確定本日議程處理完畢．散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14522.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14522.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
暫停會議 |