IVOD_ID |
160866 |
IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160866 |
日期 |
2025-05-01 |
會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-11 |
會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
會議資料.屆 |
11 |
會議資料.會期 |
3 |
會議資料.會次 |
11 |
會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
影片種類 |
Clip |
開始時間 |
2025-05-01T10:57:56+08:00 |
結束時間 |
2025-05-01T11:07:01+08:00 |
影片長度 |
00:09:05 |
支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/872e8bbe37846fc054531937b5c43c094de01e9c6ce952975144d4d67ecd09c12f620ca07494474b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
委員發言時間 |
10:57:56 - 11:07:01 |
會議時間 |
2025-05-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議(事由:審查:
一、本院委員魯明哲等 19 人擬具「再生能源發展條例第十三條條文修正草案」案。
二、本院委員謝衣鳯等 17人擬具「再生能源發展條例第十三條條文修正草案」案。
【4月30日及5月1日二天一次會】) |
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主席 在場的委員先進 列席的總經理事長 官員 會長 工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們經濟部郭部長和能源署的李署長郭部長 李署長委員好部長好 署長好 你看第一頁部長您是個企業家來自商業界商業上解決自己的問題和解決別人的問題最大的差別在哪裡 |
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直覺反應商業上他想來我直接看看您答案對不對您要給我評題一下解決自己的問題要花錢解決別人的問題可以賺錢您同意嗎這個同意那這個誰很會做新加坡跟台灣都很會對不對新加坡跟台灣都不產石油啊結果我們都有很大規模的石化業您覺得誰的規模比較大新加坡跟台灣 |
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新加坡這個我不清楚新加坡比較大這很特別嘛那他就供應給誰呢我們來看一下新加坡是世界三大煉油中心之一啊新加坡除了金融業跟觀光業之外他的行業幫他賺最多錢因為他周邊呢有產油的馬來西亞跟印尼他透過填海遭遇涉熱大量的煉油廠最重要是什麼麻六甲海峽呢世界上哇所有的郵輪都要從那邊經過是不是這樣好那往下看那 |
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新加坡的燃料它是供應給船舶用它的石化業那你覺得台灣的石化業是做來做什麼的做下游產品嘛對 而且我們不是自己用我們還出口對不對 |
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所以我們跟新加坡自己的船隊啊它在全世界只有占1.3% 一點點它煉那麼多的油都是給路過的船舶使用 賺人家的錢台灣的石化業進口那麼多的原油做出來的石化材料也不是自己用而已賣給別人 也賺別人錢 您同意嗎是好 往下看所以新加坡跟台灣都有船 航運船隊那剛剛我說了嘛新加坡的船隊當然在自己那邊加油啊台灣的船隊會在哪裡加油 你覺得 |
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看他的航線吧看航線我們往下看台灣的航運能力我們前貨運的十二大航商台灣佔了三名我們的運力快了市佔率在全球快了一成所以這個船隊是不是規模很龐大很龐大嘛但是他在哪裡加油呢我可以賣個關子往下看 |
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現在為了降低碳排應用而生的氫能產業你覺得在台灣他除了發電工業製造還有運輸哪一方面需求最迫切我們往下看我再給你看一下台灣要降低碳排所以我們的氫能未來要供應給發電供應給製造供應給運輸運輸又有陸海空你覺得哪一個占比最高哪個需求最迫切 |
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這個都在未來吧 現在氫能沒有那麼大氫能沒有那麼大 是我們要降低碳排那你覺得現在世界各國都在研究氫能怎麼樣來降低碳排要看成本了 報告委員我想這件事情喔 替代的能源是這樣就是方法有很多但是就商業的考量來講我們還是要考慮那個成本是 除了看成本之外 成本會用什麼來做碳稅就是一種成本 我們往下看其實呢 在運輸的領域當中 |
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陸海空啊現在對氫能需求最陰氣的是航運我們往下看喔IMO是國際海事組織它已經規定了為了降低溫室氣體排放在2028年開始如果你的船舶用有沒有用低碳燃料可以用課100美金到380美金的額外的碳稅所以部長你說對了嘛是不是價格出來了如果你不使用低碳燃料你就會被課碳稅嘛同意嘛齁所以你覺得航運是不是很迫切需要使用低碳燃料 |
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所以低碳燃料目前對我們航運的衝擊是什麼長榮他去年買了24艘假存的雙燃料未來他會再訂11艘24000噸的LNG的雙燃料連萬海都要用生質燃油導入那剛剛講了航運就都看很遠一艘船訂下去要用二三十年雖然是未來的事情現在就開始做準備是不是應該要這樣做企業家是不是要這樣做 |
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是嗎 好 往下看但是剛剛揭曉了 我們關谷的陽明海運呢它到哪裡去加低碳燃料 到韓國啊 您說的沒有錯輕對台灣來講 它是一個進口的 價格也比較貴所以我們的船隊 自家船隊要用的油 低碳燃料到別的國家去加台灣有沒有加住生質燃油的能力 署長有沒有 |
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台灣可以生產生殖奶油有這個生產的能力但是目前我們像現在那個玉米玉米都可以來做生殖奶油但是目前有沒有供應給我們傳播用呢因為市場太小我們台灣這個市場 |
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transcript.whisperx[12].end |
342.628 |
transcript.whisperx[12].text |
市場能不能講現在全世界的航運公司2028年要面對100到380美金對一個大的製造廠來講我講的不是工業製造我講的是船舶燃料往下看所以未來為了滿足IMO的溫體的排放所以台灣要思考有沒有可能幫這個船隊經過台灣海峽的船隊佔五分之一的世界航運量 |
transcript.whisperx[13].start |
343.43 |
transcript.whisperx[13].end |
351.911 |
transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們國家的船隊佔十分之一的航運量這些船舶有沒有可能在台灣加注低碳燃料這是不是一個市場部長你認為這是不是一個市場 |
transcript.whisperx[14].start |
354.031 |
transcript.whisperx[14].end |
381.588 |
transcript.whisperx[14].text |
就我商業的看法啦就是通過台灣海峽來台灣加油的這個機率不高因為他要加低碳燃料嘛所以我的意思就是說其實我們高雄港來高雄港然後來轉運高雄港變成一個大型的轉運中心的時候那在這個地方加油這才有機會啦是的 沒有錯所以您說的沒有錯如果是在這邊有吞吐他跟新加坡的馬六甲海峽有吞吐的時候他會同時加注燃料 |
transcript.whisperx[15].start |
382.108 |
transcript.whisperx[15].end |
409.58 |
transcript.whisperx[15].text |
主要說的是說其實在我們思考輕能產業的時候不要只有經濟部思考說用來替代我們的LNG的火力發電的燃料要思考到說舉例講啦有人說不要為了喝一杯牛奶去養一頭牛對不對但是如果你家有個小牧場你可以跟大牧場批很多原乳來加工成鮮乳賣給全社區的人所以台灣有沒有綠能 有嘛 |
transcript.whisperx[16].start |
410.472 |
transcript.whisperx[16].end |
433.024 |
transcript.whisperx[16].text |
有沒有風電 有嘛 有沒有光電 有嘛 但是錢價就不夠啊 這些電呢直接供應電力供應都來不及了有沒有可能去煉傳播燃料 不可能但是我們如果有這個技術 我們可以進國外類似原料的氫原料煉製成傳播要用的低碳多元燃料 你覺得有沒有可能這樣做 |
transcript.whisperx[17].start |
434.233 |
transcript.whisperx[17].end |
460.686 |
transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這都有可能啦商業模式都可以發展是的所以就是因為是未來的模式所以拜託您發展往下看最後結論因為我國的港區跟我國的船隊規模有提供多元低碳燃料家族的業務所以請經濟部研究一下國營事業包括台灣中油有沒有帶動民間產業煉製及供應港區多元低碳燃料的可能性可不可以去請能源署評估一下是我們可以評估那我當然我昨天也問過交通部長了 |
transcript.whisperx[18].start |
461.306 |
transcript.whisperx[18].end |
488.72 |
transcript.whisperx[18].text |
未來如果要對我們的港區的船舶提供多元低碳燃料也要專用的管路跟儲槽這個就是交通部的事情了所以最後我要請經濟部還有能源署跟台電和中油本席將會召開公聽會我會請交通部跟經濟部共同來研究氫能產業除了在台灣除了經濟部取代陸運的汽車用汽油氫能代替汽油用這個 |
transcript.whisperx[19].start |
490.388 |
transcript.whisperx[19].end |
502.894 |
transcript.whisperx[19].text |
輕能代替LNG的發電之外有沒有可能鎖定船舶燃料這個檜面來把台灣打造成一個類似新加坡為我們國際航運的船舶加注多元低碳燃料的可能性 |
transcript.whisperx[20].start |
503.638 |
transcript.whisperx[20].end |
525.858 |
transcript.whisperx[20].text |
署長你要不要補充一下我們來研究啦我要跟委員報告所有的事情其實最後還是成本來做決定是的所以就是碳定價的問題如果說今天我們經濟部有辦法評估2030或2035年我們可以提供一個什麼樣的低碳燃料的定價那交通部就會告訴你 |
transcript.whisperx[21].start |
526.628 |
transcript.whisperx[21].end |
542.811 |
transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這樣的定價的低碳燃料我的船舶需要多少的量你就可以去規劃產生這樣的低碳燃料的一個限制規模交通部也可以去規劃供應這樣的低碳燃料給船舶的一個港部設施這樣的一個建議你會不會去評估我們來評估啦好 謝謝 |