| IVOD_ID |
160841 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160841 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-30T09:59:41+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-30T10:15:26+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b6da7da99b942369cbcde870071551eb385a4fd0f0fffa49d80416c5864e049c27a1751fd121cdf95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
傅崐萁 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:59:41 - 10:15:26 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部民用航空局局長何淑萍、交通部鐵道局局長楊正君、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司代理董事長伍勝園、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長鄭光遠、中華航空股份有限公司董事長高星潢及國家運輸安全調查委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「近期我國航空、鐵路運營安全事件之檢討與改善及臺鐵票價調整方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席 請部長請交通部陳部長 |
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部長早我想今天我們的詢答都是關心我們整體交通的發展是因為主席給的時間很短所以我們能夠盡快好不好請問及答好不好好本席提醒一下2020蔡英文總統競選連任的時候推出的交通政策白皮書很清楚接駐西高鐵東快鐵 |
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部長知道這個事嗎 是 我知道要不要履行正在做西高鐵東快鐵東快鐵的時速要提升到多少車速 部長了解吧車速這個我沒有把它記起來局長是不是可以回答 到多少時速我們是透過提升路線標準來提高平均速度最高速度並沒有提升 一樣是130 |
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你可以回去翻一下過去幾次2020年本席跟歷任的交通部長的詢答或是歷任的行政院長的詢答你們可以去查清楚交通部所提出來是時速可以到160公里160公里 |
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如果你們不知道的話可以回去看一下歷次的詢問報告委員 剛剛局長有說就是後來有經過研究 確實當時有這麼說但是經過研究之後認為不可行160 安全大概無法達到現在的交通技術是在逐步的往上提升當時對人民的承諾是160不能執政越久 這個承諾越來越低 |
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149.408 |
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我想交通的技術只有日新月異沒有在跟人民宣示你們是越做越差我想160是過去很清楚的一個政策說明你們必須要間接旅行的來旅行當時也提到當時速到160的時候環島是6小時全國共同的生活圈 |
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| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以這是對全國國人來講是非常雀躍的一件事情當時我們對這個政策也非常的支持那部長從2017年這個花東鐵路雙軌電氣化從開始的這個可行研究410億到後來核定456億大概都400多億的範疇 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
178.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
187.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
裡面啦 前瞻預算編列了多少錢269269億那到現在為止 前瞻計畫已經積極扶持 行快完畢了前瞻計畫裡面 總共華東雙軌電信化 總共編列了多少錢實際編列了多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
199.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
203.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
643643 前瞻計畫裡面對花東雙軌電氣化實際實際編列了多少 實編63.53億所以當時的8000多億的前瞻計畫民進黨政府宣示啊在花東雙軌的部分269億 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
226.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
253.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
在整個8000多億的前瞻裡面269億用在花蓮台東所以所以當時這個占比就讓前瞻計畫和其他給花東地區的預算就相對的被排擠結果現在前瞻計畫已經差不多8000多億差不多快要結束了 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
254.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
255.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
結果269億剩下62億為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
261.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
286.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
報告委員 當時是因為他編列的時程比較後面所以其他的預算跟其他的計畫都已經在先行了那前瞻應該這個預算要保留啊那是核定的時間的問題 那但是跟委員報告後來我們還是用公務預算 那這個前瞻的預算為什麼沒有保留呢我們用一般的公務預算一樣可以支應同樣的一個計畫當然用一般的公務預算可以做但是既然公務預算要做 為什麼要匡列前瞻呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
287.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
309.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以你們現在自漏馬腳 當時的269億因為高舉的269億前瞻的大旗所以花蓮台東地區在使用這8000多億前瞻的部分就被相對的排擠了到今天為止真相揭露出來 269億 200多億不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
312.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
332.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那還是回到公務預算那當時前瞻劃給花蓮台東人269億那200億跑哪裡去了報告委員那個部分本來就沒有辦法去保留預算但是我們一樣是用公務預算對花東的居民我們一樣是這麼重視還有最後前瞻的餘額如果要用的話用在花蓮台東 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
341.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
367.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
不然的話你們整體八千多億的前瞻最後用在花蓮台東是多少你們很難跟人民來交代很難對人民交代如果你沒有確實的來履行這樣的一個責任我們很難對於最後一期的前瞻來表示贊同 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
368.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
396.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
本席在隆重的讓部長能夠了解報告委員 這個我們來爭取對於啊當時提速到160公里最主要的原因最主要的原因就是因為啊花東雙軌電氣化提速到160成為東快鐵就是因為花蓮到吉安有七個危險平交道這七個危險平交道 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
398.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
427.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
必須納入立體化才能夠把整個曲線的速度加快這是當時不管是部長院長再三再三的聲明也支持而且由交通部概括承受因為它不是城市的縫合不是為了地方的繁榮發展而是要履行環島的六小時共同生活圈 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
431.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
454.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
一直到去年本席都支持花中雙軌從2017年的410億到2024年因為要把立體化花蓮到吉安的7個危險品交道所以提升到955億交通部我們都支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
456.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
470.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
但是怎麼會在你任內又把它修正成691億然後把花蓮吉安七個危險評價到立體化全數排除部長你要做歷史的罪人嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
473.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
500.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
報告委員 這個審查的過程有它的專業性那我們要考量到一致性跟公平性所以呢 雙軌電氣化我們就把它拿來做雙軌電氣化但是如果是高價化的部分我們另外可以做高價化的來做其他的計畫部長一件衣服要做兩次嘛 同一件衣服要做兩次你講的是完全不可行的事情嘛表示你完全沒有準備嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
502.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
520.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你把政策改成這樣,你做好了準備嗎?同一個路廊,你要做兩次嗎?報告員,如果現在我們把高價化的計畫趕快提出來,我們到時候會一次試做,不會分兩次。好,那你什麼時候要提出來? |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
524.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
547.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
花蓮縣政府如果趕快提出來我們就趕快把他計畫趕快來審查這怎麼跟花蓮縣政府又扯上關係了交通部已經概括承受啦高加化的事情是地方政府提出當然當時已經是納入了這個是中央改善危險道路而且符合東快鐵整體曲線的速度包括費用都是由中央概括承受 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
556.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
582.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
有幾位部長宣示過你知道嗎這我不曉得本席請你回去google一下林佳龍部長王國才部長蘇貞昌院長陳建仁院長在院會的詢答都表示過本席再提醒你一下這些幕僚不曉得跟你講什麼你要回去看看過去的部長跟院長的詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
585.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
612.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
還有對人民的承諾是什麼這不同於宜蘭跟嘉義他們是做地方繁榮的城市縫合而東快點是中央的政策並不是來提升地方的繁榮而是環島共同生活圈是蔡總統民進黨政府的交通白皮書部長了解了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
616.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
637.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這題本席還會再請教你希望幕僚給你正確的訊息也希望你回去看一下那對於啊這個行政院院長所提出啊要把這個票價這個花東居民的票價要優惠的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
638.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
663.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
本席請問你什麼時候可以提出來報告委員我們希望因為票價的調漲是在6月23我們希望在6月23也可以同步我們希望我們現在朝這個方向你什麼時候要提出來這個政策讓我們能夠了解報告委員花東居民的優惠這是確定的政策一定會做但是確定的方案跟內容目前台鐵正在研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
665.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
685.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
什麼時候可以演繹出來我們希望6月23可以跟票價的整體同步來進行本席講得很清楚吧你不要一直老是講6月23同步6月23之前我們總要討論過吧是啊我會聽你們是關門自己做事情嗎我會請他們提早提出來提早什麼時候可以提出來有這麼困難嗎我們一個月一個月的時間來提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
694.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
721.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
一個月今天是今天30號到5月305月30以前好不好好 5月30以前另外啊對於怎麼優惠是一件事情怎麼把觀光客吸引進來是一件事情對於整個你們這次所訂定的平均的票價 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
723.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
749.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
全國平均是26調漲26%但卻對花蓮台東地區調漲是32本身認為這個要先趨於一致性要先趨於一致性全國應該是一致性報告委員他有遞遠遞減因為那個運具的競爭但是現在平均算出來就是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
752.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
778.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
平均算出來就是這樣子吧所以你們現在的政策本其實希望你現在的政策要進行調整嘛這不是懲罰偏遠地區的人民嗎也不會 其實台北到台中的漲幅只有19%台北到台中19%台東19%所以越遠 越偏遠其實是越遠到花蓮花蓮比較近 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
779.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
790.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
花蓮比較近所以到花蓮是多少離台北就32沒有錯32好到花蓮32那請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
792.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
810.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你們為什麼可以把它認為台北到花蓮可以到32%包委員這是以距離來算以距離來算西部從台北可能到彰化你也32%台北到台中的漲幅也是差不多那請問一下台北到台中的交通所有的幹線 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
811.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
839.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
包括高鐵包括高速公路密密麻麻高速公路快速道路有多少條報告委員所以花東有優惠方案我們正在研擬本席現在告訴你喔在去年10月就已經在本委員會已經做了決議在整體花東道路沒有改善完成之前不可以做不可以做 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
842.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
871.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
票價的調漲因為那是唯一對外公共運具就只有台鐵這已經做成了決議你們對立法院的決議完全視若無睹嗎所以花東會有優惠方案本席認為你在優惠方案之前應該先要想清楚整體的交通要如何解決如何改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
872.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
900.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這個才是交通部該做的當務之急啊所以啊本席在這裡啊希望啊部長能夠體恤啊零四零三大地震到現在現在花蓮假日的住房大概四成五成平日大概兩成所有的產業愛好遍野 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
902.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
920.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
旅輸業一家一家的關門國家整體的觀光去年逆差是900萬人次出入國逆差消費是7000億元我們記錄的是東南亞最後一名部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
921.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
943.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
今年可不可以把這個成績改善報告委員今年一定會比去年更成長我們會努力成長的幅度跟其他國家成長的幅度一樣可以嗎要看比哪個國家比大多數的國家要成長東南亞大多數的國家要成長可以嗎我們盡量來努力你的成績我們很快就看到了好不好好 謝謝 |