| IVOD_ID |
160831 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160831 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-30T13:00:12+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-30T13:10:39+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b6da7da99b942369340a22deccb94795385a4fd0f0fffa493679622006e3328bd3c8be10e344e7af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱若華 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:00:12 - 13:10:39 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部民用航空局局長何淑萍、交通部鐵道局局長楊正君、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司代理董事長伍勝園、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長鄭光遠、中華航空股份有限公司董事長高星潢及國家運輸安全調查委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「近期我國航空、鐵路運營安全事件之檢討與改善及臺鐵票價調整方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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好 謝謝主席 主席請陳士凱部長還有台鐵的吳代理董事長好 我們吳代董事長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
21.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
49.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長好部長本席過去在113、114的年度預算提案以及過去4月23台鐵的專案報告中都有多次要求台鐵來研議看我們第一線的執行人員是否要佩戴密錄器那以強化勤務的安全還有事後釐清責任有一個畫面可以來作為依據那本席在今年的3月24號那也收到台鐵的回覆指出在114年第一次車班公司協商會議決議中出席代表全數不同意購買 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
64.607 |
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那本案還會繼續溝通研議嘛那所以本席在本月的7號也就台鐵的回文內容提出質詢那本席今天就該一提請教部長然後還有我們代理董事長首先先問請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
66.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
88.824 |
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部長您贊成台鐵第一線執行人員佩戴密錄器嗎如果是站在保障員工執行的安全的部分我當然是贊成啦但是工會那邊有不一樣的思考他們也考量到說同仁的隱私或者說他執行過程當中不希望透過公司透過這個密錄器來做類似懲處部長我們先繼續看下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
89.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
117.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那根據台鐵提供給本席的資料我們可以看到應該要調查的人數是1139人那實際調查人數是900人那我們看到調查結果有56%的人認為知情時應該佩戴密錄器57%的人認為應該要統一來公發那超過六成的員工不反對使用密錄器部長從台鐵的調查資料我們可以看到超過一半的員工都是贊成佩戴密錄器的而且六成以上不反對嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
118.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
135.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那既然有那麼多員工他明確都表示支持那為什麼在協商會議上呢那麼多代表他是全數來做反對是哪一個環節出了問題還是有落差與基層的聲音有落差工會當時怎麼說我是不是請台鐵先回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
138.434 |
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159.478 |
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主要問題出現在我們的使用規則裡面有一條是 上一次本席質詢的時候您也在台下嘛那沒關係我們繼續我們請部長繼續看下去就是使用規章的部分那部長您看到你覺得最有問題的是哪一點我想如果就剛剛的說法應該是全程錄影的這個部分他們應該是會有意見的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.194 |
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189.038 |
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沒錯 這就是引發反對聲音的主因那上一次馮總經理也說到這一點就是全程要開啟讓所有代表都有意見就是有人質疑說隱私被侵犯了那上廁所的時候是不是錄影也要開著所以不同意購買部長您認為這一點它合理嗎如果考量到例如說上廁所的時候那當然這是非常不合理所以為什麼會有那麼僵化跟死板的規定為什麼一定要全程來做錄影呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
190.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
215.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個我們可以來討論好不好我們先董事長今天委員報告齁這個中間其實大家討論很多齁剛剛提到如果說是上廁所那當然這個當然是一定要關掉就不會去要求公司要求說你上廁所都要打開不會但是如果全程你在執勤的期間我們會希望他全程的開路為什麼呢第一個我們不希望未來如果有什麼事情被端端起於 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
216.408 |
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243.139 |
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就截斷一部分這真的我覺得我認為這其實是保護同仁要不然到時候你只有一個畫面你說啊前面我們是確實啊這個密錄器應該是要保障安全的工具啊不是變成壓力的來源那部長還有戴隆市長那其實在其他部門密錄器的使用已經早就行之有年啦不只是我們看到可以看到消防機關還有財政部還有地方的社會局都有建制規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
244.58 |
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269.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
跟委員報告好 因為我們跟第一 剛講這些大概都第一線的同仁跟那個一般我們的用戶人接觸比較頻繁所以在台鐵沒有辦法來做事情況開啟嗎到目前至少 我認為應該是這個應該 我覺得應該還要繼續那什麼時候會再召開下一次的會議再做討論呢就是真的不要那麼一切全程都要錄影我們盡快再找先生跟人家溝通一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
271.087 |
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289.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
報告委員未來如果要在開會討論我們會針對一些情境一些情境排除的部分我們來列入也就是說更人性化你在執勤的過程當中我們希望全程都要錄影但是裡面有一些情境例如說我們剛才所提到上廁所上洗手間這個部分我們就是可以關掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
290.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
307.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
但是當你面對客人的時候在第一線面對客人在工作的時候為了保護自己我們還是希望他開啟我們就是說這個前提是在他們在執行在第一線在第一線執行的時候才做使用對沒有錯OK好那可以先請對朝這個方向來調整我相信大家接受度會相對高一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
307.859 |
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323.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
OK 好 那總經理和我們的代理董事長可以先請回座休息那本席接下來我們看到在這個月17號的時候台鐵它頻繁發生吊車的意外然後還有幽靈列車的問題那本席也有向預安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
324.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
346.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
反映這個問題是否該介入調查那剛好藉這個機會也讓部長您了解那最近台鐵的事故頻傳我們可以看到短短四個月內就發生七起不當的停車事件五個月內也發生了七起吊車意外那請問這個雙七這個雙七的問題看起來不是偶發的事件那台鐵有沒有提出改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
347.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
367.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
當然啦 針對這些事情不斷在檢討啦那我們也看得出來說有大部分的案例是因為我們的同仁沒有依照這個SOP 相關的SOP的規定下去做當你沒有依照SOP當然就容易出意外所以是人為的問題嘛人為的問題 人為的問題那部長 現在還要給您看一段影片 我們先來看影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
368.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
381.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
來看一下我們到站列車317那就是他現在位置等一下位置然後等一下他到站之後他的317會不會變幽靈列車好我們看一下他會不會變幽靈列車進來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
385.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
399.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
坐不見了一股、二股、三股、四股、五股、六股、一股還有車還有車不見了那他不是到車站沒了喔他還要去調度到那個基地喔沒了就這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
401.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
415.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好部長您有看到嗎明明就是列車還在月台可是在這個監視畫面中我們沒有看到任何訊號他沒有顯示在這個監視畫面中那這邊也請我們林信德主委保護委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
416.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
432.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個案例我聽台鐵公司有在說明這位值班的副站長他應該要理解實際的狀況但是他不理解然後還錄了影片給大家一個錯誤的訊息我認為這個是所以這個都是站長的問題嗎不是這個到了他終點站到了終點站本來他那個車號就是會消失 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
439.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
441.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們有請台鐵提供資料 現在詳細資料還沒到我們這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
457.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
480.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以台鐵的詳細資料還沒有到運安會嗎?那運安會是什麼時候開始起動調查?就剛剛台鐵所說明的它是有一點類似像假信號資料事實上它不是真正實行但是我們還希望它的資料是說不定的所以現在台鐵說是因為這樣的情況所以就運安會就不用調查了嗎?不是還是會調查嗎?還是會調查我們還是還沒有考慮要不要立案因為它資料還沒有完全齊全 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
481.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
509.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以剛才在我們台鐵的說明這個也是人為的問題嗎?不是系統出現錯誤嗎?包委員這個系統的設定長年來都是這樣設定但是錄影片的這一位先生是他不了解這個狀況那如果是一般的民眾不了解這個狀況我們可以接受如果說這位先生不了解狀況那是不是教育訓練出現了問題?我認為這個人的教育訓練應該是有問題我認為台鐵應該要懲處喔事實上軌道比賽我們有EP盤 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
510.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
525.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
是 那會不會針對這位這位員工來做懲處我們會再加強訓練會再加強訓練了解我們的系統整個運作的一個所以他今天不了解這個系統你們就讓他上工啊沒有 他應該是要了解他 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
526.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
549.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們這個部分也會詳細的去對他做輔導我認為除了訓練之外這位同仁在台鐵裡面這麼多年的時間不了解這個狀況還錄影片讓社會誤導社會對台鐵這件事情的誤解我認為這位員工台鐵要好好的輔導以外那就是台鐵本身就有很大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
551.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
564.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
因為他在安全管理上面本來就是要系統化跟常態化還有標準化那為什麼今天會有這位這位員工他不了解情況他還把影片傳到傳到網路上那他明明就在第一線他應該要了解情況的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
568.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
587.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
報告委員我再說明稍微清楚一點這個是我們的TID系統就是車輛的列車資訊顯示的系統那他會跟我們車站的這個車站的一個顯示板是連動的所以因為他到終點站所以到站了這個列車就會 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
588.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
607.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
就會消失掉因為避免旅客還看到那一班車還在還認為他還在營運他已經到站了那但是我們的安全絕對的安全是我們的CP盤就是我們的所以這一位副站長他其實應該說那麼多那其實就是台鐵現在內部還是存在著問題啊很大的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
609.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
624.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
沒有 這個我們會詳細的再去了解就剛才部長也提到本席今天也讓部長了解那請在督促開帖這件事情上系統沒問題啦這件事情上是人的誤解所以又是人為的問題嗎是人的誤解所以還有管理上面出了問題嗎這個我們來檢討好 謝謝部長 |