| IVOD_ID |
160821 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160821 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-30T12:31:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-30T12:42:55+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b6da7da99b942369e6da6a1b84d531cb3c0ba1d923b4b8db98ab4b80bc74e67d8c2082ecc2dcd8fa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李坤城 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:31:45 - 12:42:55 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：審查：
一、本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
二、本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。
三、本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。
四、本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。
五、本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。
七、本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。
八、本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
九、本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。
十、本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
十一、本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
十二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
十三、本院委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
十四、本院委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
十五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。
十六、本院委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「動物保護法第五條、第二十條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。
十七、本院委員林思銘等18人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
十八、本院委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
十九、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」案。
二十、本院委員游顥等23人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。
二十一、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。
二十二、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法增訂第十四條之三條文草案」案。
二十三、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。
二十四、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。
二十五、本院委員蘇巧慧等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。
二十六、本院委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十二條之四條文修正草案」案。（詢答）
【4月30日及5月1日二天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席我先讓部長喝口水來問請陳部長陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.514 |
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委員好部長好這早上我在做這個提案說明的時候我有特別提到說我們行政院的版本還沒有來那請問一下行政院版本現在是卡在哪裡沒有現在就是最後一步就是要通過院會以後就可以出立法院那剛才我也跟包括謝議員委員召委這邊提到的就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
41.391 |
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目標是下個禮拜希望能夠協調行政院能夠納到下個禮拜的院會報告院會報告以後在五月上旬看看有沒有機會送到立法院來審議那所以這樣聽起來應該是在院那邊應該沒什麼大問題因為已經審查完了最後一關就是要在院會報告那審查完基本上有什麼大問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
66.06 |
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93.668 |
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有一些問題但是經過溝通大概現在目前為止版本大概都已經定案了這樣子喔那這個本席有提案那我覺得比較重要的幾點再提出來跟部長再討論那第一個你們現在有關於這個寵物食品安全管理法是另外一個法對不對是那這個法現在也是在預告的部分嗎我跟委員報告本來動保法裡面有一個跟寵物食品有關的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.648 |
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118.09 |
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但是因為寵物食品是大家非常關心的從原料的來源到生產製造到產品的開發跟內容物的安全性所以他很多委員就提出說要變成一個專法你也說要專法所以這個專法預計現在已經完成了在我們的部裡面的法規會審查那我是要求五月底一定要出 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
119.351 |
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138.548 |
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農業部進到行政院然後目標是下個會期能夠進到立法院好 那這個這還算蠻明確的那第二個就是說在那個就是加重刑責這部分的話那這個我們農業部的版本咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
139.758 |
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158.058 |
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我們是有加重我們也同意這個方向至於刑度有沒有跟他的罰款併割罰金的這個部分到底是多少萬可能大家到時候版本提出來的時候大家再來討論所以這個刑責就跟你們預告的是一樣就是有加重有加重那就是跟預告的是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
159.199 |
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181.06 |
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不同的委員有不同的版本到時候我們再來看看哪一個刑度刑責跟他的罰款是大家可以接受的好那我早上有提到就是說我們現在有一些民間他有一些動物的收容所那他其實養的也蠻多的啦那規模也蠻大的那可是的話你們我是提案說納管那就是你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
182.254 |
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196.726 |
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認為說如果納管這個進去的話那會變成是說問題可能會衍生其他的問題啦那可是不納管也不行啦我是說這部分的話你們要做怎麼樣做處理啊不過我剛才也跟其他幾位委員提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
197.635 |
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226.528 |
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我非常認同就是說所有的這些動物收農不能只靠公家單位啦一定要公家單位跟民間的都協同作業的方式那雖然說現在民間的收農所不管它的土地的土地的合法性或是它設施設備裡面的設施設備的完整度跟它的衛生安全可能都有一些差異性那如果直接納管的時候其實同仁是擔心直接納管相關的規範一出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
227.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
249.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
可能完全 可能本來一百家 可能剩下十家但是也不能因為 但是也不能因為這樣子不做啦所以我覺得應該要有一個輔導期啦等於說訂了這樣 我想方向是我們都要認同透過公家跟民間的一起但是相對的民間的整個納管 應該要有一個輔導期 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
251.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
269.513 |
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那這個輔導棋讓我們去協助民間業者取得比較安全衛生的環境來做這樣的一個收容的動作然後才真正的開始實施我們是期待用這樣的方式來處理好 那就是說就是有關民間部分的話還是會做管理就對了啦那管理就是會有一個輔導棋 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.495 |
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297.849 |
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那另外一個還是大家也蠻關心就是說齁這個動物警察的這個職權那可是我剛聽這個部長的這一個你的概念應該是說他他不是警察啊但是他是類似一個動物檢察官的意思嗎還是小保官的概念小保官那那個概念是什麼樣的我想齁我們現在目前實務上就是當有人檢舉然後我們的動保檢察員去訪查的時候如果需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
313.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
進一步的做調查的時候就會通知警察單位來協助他目前現況是這樣現在這樣但是我們也知道他可能有點時間差對有點時間差所以有很多委員說因為這種時間差會導致很多他沒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
314.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
336.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
進去處理對所以希望有個動保警察但是動保警察就牽涉到警察的職務對這屬於內政部的那跟內政部討論警察還有警察的本身的一些很多業務所以我們基本上也尊重那如果不是用動物警察的這一個權利的話那有什麼其他可以去說然後剛才也有委員提到就是說我們賦予 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
338.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
351.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
動物檢查單元的司法職權我不一定稱他為警察但是他具有司法的職權的部分然後如果說大家有認同這個方向的時候也許我們可以透過後面的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
352.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
370.39 |
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入法以後後面的這些訓練但是我也必須提醒現在的動保檢查人員他能夠進來的科目如果是高考的話科目跟未來如果有賦予司法警察的人士的這些要求就不一樣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
371.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
393.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那專業就不一樣了那個部分可能都要重新針對人力跟相關的調整那這個部分如果說我們後續再主要討論的時候如果大家有一致的共識那農業部基本上立場也是希望朝這個方向就是有更好的更有效率的但是也考量到部會之間我們也希望說大家也彼此尊重那看找到一個平衡點我們再來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
394.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
409.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好 那最後一個問題請教就是說就比較不幸的事情就是說4月21號我們有一隻台灣黑熊是那不幸在花蓮地方然後它應該是被我們這一個林業署的這一個管理員好像是路管員對 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
410.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
428.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那當然我看那一個整個的流程來講就是說他是為了要保護自己因為那個黑熊他其實已經有了一個有那個動作就是對那有可能對人會造成這一個危害所以我們那位管理員他有開槍 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
429.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
447.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那我想起就是說在兩三年前也有一隻台灣黑熊還要寫成一本書就是這個未完的旅程一隻台灣黑熊的人間啟示錄但也是一隻台灣黑熊他要回到他的家鄉回到他的住的地方大雪山可是在回程的過程當中也是因為比較輕 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
448.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
474.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
就是已經到了這個人類居住的地方然後也引起這個人類的這個這個要自我保護然後也射殺了這個黑熊那我就想說這件事情對於這個農業部或對於我們林業署來講有沒有什麼要檢討的地方我覺得每一件事情背後都有它改進的空間其實在當下如果黑熊開始入侵這些民宅的時候我們做驅離那其實驅離就應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
476.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
476.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
當時有辦法這樣做嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
499.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
513.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為我沒有在現場我不是很了解那我們曾經也檢討過如果但是相對我們並沒有抓到他只是我們人去去驅惑他的時候他就跑掉了那跑掉以野生動物來講我們不會去追他去抓捕他啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
514.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
531.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以後續我覺得還有就是因為當下在處理的時候他是比較黑暗嘛那因為熊的那個個體還有他當下剛好在吃那隻狗所以他有那個護那個食物的那個動作有沒有不管他是驚嚇看到人也會怕我相信他看到人也會怕啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
532.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
561.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
彼此之間 我想我們護管員的安全是非常重要的所以我們也不會去究責說他開槍殺死這個野保動物因為他本身也是布農族的他也是布農族的在布農族他們的禁忌裡面是不能夠殺黑熊的所以相關就是要當他自身安全受到影響所以後面的檢討其實我覺得後續如果還有還會發生這種情形的話我們在第一時間應該讓這隻黑熊遠離更遠的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
562.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
569.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
避免再度的這樣子的一個來侵害我們的鄉村的那我再問一下我現在知道說我們台灣黑熊大概有幾隻嗎幾隻 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
574.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
578.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
六百隻左右,六百隻左右那這個數字應該是有保護成功吧這個數字跟五年前之前比起來剛才有委員說已經增加六百隻是不是還是保育的動力 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
596.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
612.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
就跟食虎一樣啊都是保育類的動物我覺得台灣蟲是一個台灣蠻具有特色的一個動物但是因為如果它數量多然後它現在那個因為它的侵襲我看它的路徑也會到低海拔的地方那我覺得接下來怎麼去教導不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
612.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
629.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
住在附近的人或是說遊客我覺得可能這部分關於人跟熊之間如何和諧相處這部分我覺得可能要多一些的一些指導原則出來我也跟委員報告我們現在推動了那個生態給付的概念就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
630.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
652.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
特別是在原民部落的部分他可以領一些撐帶給付然後跟我們農業部門一起合作然後一起來遇到黑熊的話能夠通報我們然後我們來協助來處理的方式那也因為這個績效做得很好所以相對的這些黑熊被誤殺被獵捕的機會變少了然後受傷 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
652.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
669.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
被通報的我們能夠及時把他救回的個案也越來越多所以他的族群是越來越上面所以後續我們會持續用生態警務的方式讓原民部落跟我們做一個共同守護的一個動作好OK好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝我們現在請何欣淳委員 |