| IVOD_ID |
160735 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160735 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-29T15:24:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-29T15:40:09+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:41 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5e3950a5df8d034b99e5d23ad50e9656066821ab1e45083e07d926e96d12bddf6511449ee88a32a45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
葛如鈞 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:24:28 - 15:40:09 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。二、4月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、4月29日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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好謝謝主席有請卓榮泰院長麻煩請卓院長備詢各位好院長好我想我國的科研界及產業界都非常關注我們目前人工智慧基本法的立法方向跟進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
34.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
63.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這實際上也是陳建仁前院長以及吳政中前政委卸任之前心心念念的嘱托啦也是所有的人都非常關注的回顧我國整個人工智慧基本法的研議過程早在去年3月本席剛剛就任就曾經質詢過AI基本法草案的進度當時呢陳建仁前院長表示樂觀其成那當時呢我們有一位先發投手吳政中前政委進一步表示 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
63.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
77.632 |
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即便他從內閣回歸民間但是科技政策是會延續的預計2024年年底會有院版的草案提出預計將會尋所謂的美日模式也就是對AI是鼓勵研發跟創新為主風險歸管為輔 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
81.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
103.954 |
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不過去年520新內閣上任以後卓院長您所率領的團隊說是AI內閣對於各界可以說是非常非常的期待對於AI基本法的設定具以厚望認為錢建仁前院長交棒給卓院長AI基本法的草案一定就能夠在24年年底送進立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
105.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
128.622 |
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當時制定人工智慧基本法的重責大任也就從吳振中前主委交給了我們現在的吳承文主委如果說吳振中主委是所謂的先發投手那麼我想吳承文主委就是非常重要的中繼投手如果狀態好的話應該可以一路投下去投到第九局取得比賽的勝利去年剛剛登板的吳承文主委也不負眾望了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
129.082 |
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150.676 |
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一開始就給我們投出好球在6月的時候就召開了人工智慧基本法的首場諮詢會議並且在7月15號正式預告人工智慧基本法的草案收集了各界的意見再次投出好球主委您11月28號在教皇委員會也在詢答的時候說 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
151.616 |
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179.156 |
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草案方向未有大幅變動預計最晚於明年也就是今年的第一個會期呢送到立法院審議直到今年的2月6號行政院會後記者會國科會也都還持續在場上穩定的投球我想請教齁那當時呢也國科會表示一定會在新會期也就是這個會期重新送出我想請教員工智慧基本法法案草案送出來了沒跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
180.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
197.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
吳承文主委五十多年前就一直是國家的勝利投手所以他投了很多好球送出了沒 送出了沒去年底我們經過國科會送到行政院行政院也再一次的進行審議我們對內容還有一些意見所以現在還沒送出對 我們是審慎起見 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
199.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
220.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
其實這個180度的髮夾彎轉折出現了正當各界認為AI內閣應該要儘速提出沒想到剛剛二月初的時候國科會都還說沒問題結果二月底突然豬羊變色在場上穩定發揮的國科會突然被我們的這個教練來換將 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
222.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
247.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
改由速發部上場投球行政院立場突然180度大轉變宣布要將人工智慧基本法改由速發部來主管對此吼我們這個吳承恩主委也有相關的說明不過各見一片嘩然啊不知道到底什麼樣的理由這場比賽在終局之前有這麼大的轉變林鄭換將外界物理看花抽絲剝繭沒有一個答案院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
248.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
248.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
請問,這是不是真的? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
288.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
因為經過院內包括政委包括各部會相關的討論我們認為這個AI基本法牽扯到國家安全也牽扯到這個基本的安全上的管理跟人民的直接權益關係都有相當大所以交由部會更有能力但是吳承偉主委用政委的身份隨時在督導這個工作絕對沒有問題謝謝院長我要問的是這是不是您的指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
294.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
是不是行政院的指示在討論之後做最後終決定的當然是院長院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
296.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
321.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
事實上你說得很好嘛 是你做的決定對不對對嘛 你剛剛說了嘛2月26號其實是星期三並不是行政院院會召開的日期本席上網特地查了2月20號 2月27號是行政院院會的決議這兩次的會議無論是報告事項或討論事項都沒有人工智慧基本法請問院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
322.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
348.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
到底在什麼樣的場合什麼樣的會議上去指示國科會要將AI人工智慧基本法的草案改交速發布這個跟委員報告行政院除了行政院會之外我們還有政委的政務會議同時每一天不定時不定內容的我們還有各個大大小小的相關會議都會做成重要的決定但最終重要的法案都會經過行政院院會才會做決定好 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
349.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
373.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
2月26號說改交嘛那這是哪一場會議這是哪一場會議抱歉委員這樣問我必須要查一下這是哪一場一定是經過一個所以必然是經過會議嘛一定是經過討論之後的調整那有沒有會議記錄有沒有會議記錄有沒有公文佐證查出來相關談到人工智慧基本法的討論的會議2月26號為什麼我要這樣問因為各界非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
379.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
397.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
擔憂覺得為什麼會突然林鄭換將這是不是一個黑心教練中途更換投手的黑心事件啊我們我國在對AI的這個法規上是不是在打假球要對全國對全世界來做一個很奇怪的振錢換將的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
397.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
405.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
到底是什麼樣的原因大家會非常懷疑啊事實上政治呢2月26號其實是民進黨2月26號其實是民進黨的中常會啊是民進黨的會議啊沒有關係嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
414.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
441.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以2月26號的哪一場會議請提供資料否則這個重大的轉折大家沒有辦法理解我再請教院長人工智慧基本法等同於我國人工智慧基本的發展大法一共18條裡面只有5條是做風險的監管可以說本來是要定調研發為主監管為輔在先發投手的時期但是現在政院版的草案的主管機關改為速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
443.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
455.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
國務科會說要全新發展AI相關的研究我們是不是可以確定我國對AI發展的未來整體規劃就正式要定調為從鼓勵研發科研創新轉為強調風險監管的方向院長那並不衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
461.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
484.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這就跟你的這個特別預算一樣什麼都要參進來嗎並不衝突不是來AI就是一個研發也要管控它的風險管理這並不衝突啊好沒關係你說沒有衝突那我就告訴院長為什麼速發部其實是不適合作為人工智慧的主管機關這裡面是可能存在衝突的第一根據速發部所提供的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
485.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
508.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
素產署還有資安署都表示114年度沒有編列AI科研的預算只有產業署勉強編列跟數位產業有關這還不是AI喔 是5.9億元相比之下114年度國科會掌握的AI科技研發的預算一共將近52億元總共掌握的很可能還是到300億的規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
509.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
529.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
以預算的規模來看 國科會來掌握AI科研的預算是速發部的10倍所以這個其實就是一種差異啊 對不起 稍微等我一下還有第二點 從組織架構來看 國科會是中央二級機關預算員額加聘僱大概有299人 速產署是三級機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
531.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
553.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
加上這個聘用人員大概只有163個人,在資源和人力雙重缺乏的之下,怎麼能夠承擔我們的AI整體發展的重任呢?第三,法治量能速發部是一向為人併購的,我們沒有批評的意思,但事實上就是11屆會期到目前為止,總共速發部只提出了電子簽章管理法和資通安全管理法, |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
554.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
579.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
完全AI基本法到現在也草案的修正也沒看到影子沒錢沒人沒有法治量人怎麼能做我國的未來人工智慧發展的主管機關呢這是怎麼做的呢為什麼會有這樣的一個事情呢報告委員我們科技研發的預算國會來編列那我們支撐的當然不是政府在做研發而是我們的學界我們的產業界研究機構都會做然後速發部呢將來會做產業AI的產業的推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
582.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
584.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝主委我沒有問您 我要問院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
586.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
611.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
您剛剛說可以平衡啊可是速發部就是沒有在做這塊啊沒有預算沒有人沒有錢在主管的單位上面更是速產署三級機關這怎麼科研怎麼發展怎麼創新院長您可以回應一下嗎我是真的很誠心的去請教啊數位發展部本來就是掌管國家重大的數位發展計畫以及執行他重要在執行一個部會比一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
612.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
637.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
委員會來講它的執行能力會更強所以我們是著眼這樣子必須做高風險的安全管理院長你覺得數位產業跟AI產業是一樣的嗎數位產業它包含比較大所以我們剛剛看到只做資安跟素產我們的人力就已經不夠了草案都申不出來了你覺得它有量能可以繼續做AI嗎委員會要求速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
638.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
659.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
在現在的時間內儘速把AI基本法草案完整的送到行政院我們的方向到底是不是轉變了我們以科研為主 創新為主轉成速發部 速發部是打詐跟治安嘛我們現在 您剛剛也講了是不是以風險公關 要就講清楚我們的方向是不是轉變了我們要並重 我們要鼓勵民間 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
660.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
683.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
多研發 我們也要著重於公權力上面的管理讓它高風險的管理能夠有安全的機制好 如果你說併重的話 請教院長您是否贊成應該比照行政院國家資通安全會報成立一個由行政院召集的國家人工智慧戰略特別委員會您說要併重嘛 您才有高度可以併重啊主委還是政委嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
685.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
700.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
蘇發部他也沒有辦法跨部會協調所以您支持這個說法嗎我們現在已經有跨部會的自動安全匯報因為戰略人工智慧戰略特別委員會我們在公立會裡大家都提出來目前我們是沒有這樣的規劃但是我們已經有跨部會的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
702.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
727.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
跨部會的自動安全匯報來統合各部會的工作所以要把AI放到自動安全匯報裡面嗎我說我們現在已經有這個我們可以跨部會來做自動安全匯報我說吃不吃吃AI也有這樣跨部會召集的委員會我們有一個現在有一個智慧國家2.0方案剛啟動那副院長 政府院長召集我協助裡面會把AI產業的推動也會放在這裡不是 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
728.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
757.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這樣大家越聽越模糊啊你的AI有一個智慧國家2.0是主委在協調然後你的AI基本法草案又給速發部來處理那你這個台灣到底AI是不是多頭N頭馬車啊這是副院長主持的是院級的副院長主持的智慧國家2.0所以不需要這個戰略了是不是智慧國家2.0就是在講AI嗎戰略可以在那邊談那速發部會是一個很重要的執行的一個部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
757.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
776.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那其他的包含經濟部國會也都會協助沒關係我想這個整合的戰略我們還是希望有一個中央的帶頭啦否則的話我覺得現在這樣一團混亂再來我還是想請教一下院長現在啦我想繁體中文面臨到這個存續的問題我們很感謝文化部幫忙我們啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
777.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
803.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
跟這個相關的這個企業來溝通讓這個YouTube還有很多的平台繁中是繼續支持的那我請教一下院長你是不是認同我們應該要加速資料的開放相關法制化的作業我們在公聽會裡面也有很多專家說我們應該要有國家層級的AI訓練資料庫這個AI訓練院長知不知道什麼意思我們一直包括我們大型語言模型Tide這個就是一個大型的資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
804.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
832.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們也希望資料能夠在開放政府的這個概念底下能夠跟民間充分來使用國家現有的資源對不起 院長你可能要回去做一下功課TIDE是所謂的大型語言模型它不是一個資料庫我們需要一個國家級的資料庫台德在喊說資料不夠民間也在喊說資料不夠我們要有一個AI的語料庫讓民間跟國家級的都可以來運用院長可不可以支持這樣的主張啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
834.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
857.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們的確朝這個方向在走因為我們要發展主權AI一定要建自己的資料庫什麼時候會完成我們什麼時候會有這個國家級的AI資料庫這部分的工作現在在速發部因為他負責資料治理速發部負責資料治理所以速發部在AI基本法以及相關資料治理的法案他都會去推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
859.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
875.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
在推動的過程當中會跟我們的國防中心沒有關係謝謝相關的資料請提供出來院長我相信你已經可以看到了啦一個AI產業到現在完全多頭馬車沒有資料沒有AI沒有電也沒有AI啦事實上我們想要告訴你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
875.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
895.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們需要核電我們需要更多元的能源彭子前董事長也說了核綠不要偏廢啦我們發現我們完全沒有編列相關的補助在做核能的研究跟創新我們甚至中研院所做出的近零五支箭完全沒有任何一支是核能啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
896.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
913.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
結果我們的中研院告訴我們說沒有人在討論的我們才把它放進來變成箭有人在討論就是有用的箭啊沒人在討論可能就是沒用的箭啊我們怎麼中研院幫我們政府規劃出來要設出的是五支沒有用的箭呢我想最後想要讓院長知道啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
913.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
927.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
五月十七河山研議在即啦我們的河山場還可以放九年半以上我們是不是可以不要再大罷免大拖度了我們要大台灣大成功我們更理性看待台灣的需要可以嗎謝謝葛如今委員資訊謝謝卓院長 國科會背景 謝謝 |