iVOD / 160711

Field Value
IVOD_ID 160711
IVOD_URL https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160711
日期 2025-04-28
會議資料.會議代碼 委員會-11-3-26-8
會議資料.會議代碼:str 第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議
會議資料.屆 11
會議資料.會期 3
會議資料.會次 8
會議資料.種類 委員會
會議資料.委員會代碼[0] 26
會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] 社會福利及衛生環境委員會
會議資料.標題 第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議
影片種類 Clip
開始時間 2025-04-28T11:37:24+08:00
結束時間 2025-04-28T11:53:54+08:00
影片長度 00:16:30
支援功能[0] ai-transcript
video_url https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f76a0bd18e4ae6a53b8f53f87fc2aede7917adb13da216115a6895f83779ad0d5025eb6a0fa74945ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8
委員名稱 劉建國
委員發言時間 11:37:24 - 11:53:54
會議時間 2025-04-28T09:00:00+08:00
會議名稱 立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議(事由:邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況,並備質詢。)
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transcript.whisperx[0].start 2.591
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transcript.whisperx[0].text 法定人數不足
transcript.whisperx[1].start 15.186
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transcript.whisperx[1].text 剛剛有委員槌尋說他能關電板一個叫做石油連線到時候怎麼處理另外一個是因為天災地變有損毀那我看你答覆那個委員我覺得你有點胸有不成竹然後你旁邊的幕僚還頻頻點頭因為那個槌尋的委員是要講說是叫清潔隊來處理是不是
transcript.whisperx[2].start 40.399
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transcript.whisperx[2].text 他在旁邊一直點頭,是這樣嗎?你要不要答覆清楚一點?一個是使用連線到了,怎麼處理?另外一個是使用連線尚未到了,因為天災地變它損壞了,怎麼處理?
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transcript.whisperx[3].text 跟委員報告在使用年限道或者說天災地變就是因為天災的關係它有損壞都可以達到我們有一個碳能板的回收專線去集中來回收那另外一部分是說民眾可能有些小的它數量比較少那就可以跟清潔隊來聯絡來回收跟清潔隊來聯絡來回收嘛對不對可以問清潔隊員
transcript.whisperx[4].start 82.356
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transcript.whisperx[4].text 看那個回收的管道是怎麼樣是問清潔隊員回收管道還是請清潔隊員來回收剛剛你的答案是請清潔隊員來回收那你的幕僚跟你一樣都投一支點哪一個清潔隊有在回收這個小型家用的碳能關鍵板如果是比較小的或是說因為它數量它是有稍微大一點可能它的回收車沒辦法回收那就要去清潔什麼叫比較小 什麼叫比較大怎麼去界定
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transcript.whisperx[5].text 哪一個清潔隊有在收你講的所謂的比較小的這兩個問題就好簡單就好好不好有些是那個它有些它是屋頂那個早期小型的它那個小型的那如果回收車它可以回收你講回收車指清潔隊的回收車嘛對不對哪一個清潔隊的哪一個鄉鎮的哪一區的清潔隊的回收車有在回收可以明確跟我講嗎有嗎
transcript.whisperx[6].start 143.837
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transcript.whisperx[6].text 你要不要再確定一下是是 那我們是有跟我們的地方簽沒有啦如果有你就先跟我講嘛台北市哪一區還是運線哪一個鄉鎮的清潔隊有在收這個小型的因為天災地變損害的太陽能光電板
transcript.whisperx[7].start 163.906
transcript.whisperx[7].end 173.711
transcript.whisperx[7].text 跟委員報告我講的是說家戶的事可以一樣家戶啊我這跟你講也是家戶啊就小型家用不是家戶嗎對不對誰在收嘛哪一個清潔隊在收嘛跟委員報告我們也是有曾經有這個民眾打來那我們會跟清潔隊那邊來聯絡對你好那你就直接講各位講你們處理的實力給我聽嘛給委員會聽嘛你打給哪一個清潔隊嘛
transcript.whisperx[8].start 195.558
transcript.whisperx[8].end 210.14
transcript.whisperx[8].text 因為你每天要清災應領的嘛,你自己塞在清廠,你自己不知道,你說清潔堆有你修,我只能問,對,清潔堆有你修,你又說人家卡電來,你又還沒修,所以環境部,所以環境部就聯絡那個地方的清潔堆,好,你就跟我說對一下小型家用的太陽光電,因為天災地變損害之後,然後不曉得要找誰收,然後導致你環境部來,那環境部,然後再找地方的清潔隊,去做回收,
transcript.whisperx[9].start 227.483
transcript.whisperx[9].end 228.464
transcript.whisperx[9].text 天啊!天啊!誇張吧!你不會去?你這個事有什麼事?這是有些個案,我們過去是有...沒有沒有,你有些個案,你跟我講個案啊哪一個清潔隊啊?哪一個鄉鎮的啊?哪一個縣的啊?
transcript.whisperx[10].start 253.485
transcript.whisperx[10].end 280.883
transcript.whisperx[10].text 所以我不是要跟台灣吐槽債啦我是要跟你提倡說你這樣回答是有出問題啦都不可能嘛你們有心智跟舊智嘛對不對 那舊智我們就不談你的心智也不是這樣啊你的舊智也沒有這樣啊清潔隊就不肯去跟你搜小型家用的損害的開門光電板啊都不可能啊那你們自己的制度怎麼樣 你能不能簡單說明一下我時間有限 已經佔一半的時間了
transcript.whisperx[11].start 282.762
transcript.whisperx[11].end 302.76
transcript.whisperx[11].text 我們的制度現在是由我們是請能源署就在它的短購費率裡面有增加我們太陽能板的費用所以現在是由能源署這邊來幫我們發通知單由一些設置業者來繳錢那目前收的錢的情況是108到12年應收的費用是10億
transcript.whisperx[12].start 306.684
transcript.whisperx[12].end 329.764
transcript.whisperx[12].text 沒有,我沒有在問你多少錢嘛,署長不要這樣啦,好不好你們回收流程是不是這樣,你這個人,我個人沒聽你聽,沒聽你聽,這樣不對吧這樣處理事情怎麼會對,你對自己的業務沒清楚到這種程度大型營利回收時必須先登入PV、IS系統報備環境部會請臨近的業者處理之後向能源署申請相關費用,對不對
transcript.whisperx[13].start 332.09
transcript.whisperx[13].end 351.947
transcript.whisperx[13].text 這個已經省略很多了啦 其實一般業者都會直接跟這個反正就甲方乙方就會先簽訂合約啦萬一有這些狀況 那他們就會通知相關的業者來做處理嘛這是大型的嘛 應該是這樣嘛 矯正反矯正嘛對不對你小心加油 你人家可請清潔隊處理之清潔隊登陸PBIS系統轉交於相關業者處理之這個就有問題了啊
transcript.whisperx[14].start 360.333
transcript.whisperx[14].end 371.036
transcript.whisperx[14].text 你交給哪一個清潔隊處理之?你為什麼這樣?結果你沒辦法清潔,就在處理這件事啊你現在還要回答,叫做個案?然後什麼叫個案?不是這樣啦,我覺得這樣會出很大的問題啦部長你請上來啦
transcript.whisperx[15].start 381.168
transcript.whisperx[15].end 403.125
transcript.whisperx[15].text 組長 這個要討論一下 檢討一下啦 明確啦 好不好我只希望明確 因為你剛剛因為我剛剛有慶祝在主席台的時候在聆聽你講的時候 我就覺得很差異嘛因為我們都在基層 我們在跑嘛像這種事情我們經常會遇到就我遇到的清潔隊沒有在搜嘛我剛剛還問了別縣市的清潔隊有沒有在搜沒有啊 都沒在搜啊 他們都沒在搜啊這本身夾著就跟他們簽了合約啊老孫啊就對了 夾著就叫處理 夾著去處理啊
transcript.whisperx[16].start 407.788
transcript.whisperx[16].end 430.096
transcript.whisperx[16].text 他們關電業者就找處理的業者去做處理啦不管你大型小型嘛那怎麼在你們這個回收程序是完全不一樣所以你才會這麼打嘛那你這麼打就出問題啊就不是這樣啊好 那我為什麼要提醒這個事情106年的時候在我們雲林大V鄉有一個已經沒有在營運的工廠堆了4200桶的消 切 切消液嘛
transcript.whisperx[17].start 430.876
transcript.whisperx[17].end 437.899
transcript.whisperx[17].text 我對他有印証,真的有事,說得很清楚那怎麼處理他們關鍵盤處理相關的這些化學的物品等多久呢?一趟是五個月,等四、七、八個月,等多久不知道最後當然有移送法辦,後來有罰款後來又判刑,後來這4200桶的切消費跑去哪裡?
transcript.whisperx[18].start 463.824
transcript.whisperx[18].end 486.941
transcript.whisperx[18].text 4200桶喔我們要做太陽光電如果我們對這事情都沒有掌握我覺得我必須要來跟行政院做反應因為這事情我們不是現在在討論我曾經在院會執行就已經在前前前前的署長你署長的時候就特別提到說這種事情你如果不重視
transcript.whisperx[19].start 488.062
transcript.whisperx[19].end 515.493
transcript.whisperx[19].text 當台灣的能源的政策一直朝這個方向去做發展然後我們又沒有後端 後續的一個處理的機制然後讓這四千兩百桶的五家輪的切消費囤亂在那個地方不曉得多久時間是被一個路跑的一個百姓發現到去舉報的咧啊可以堆置在那個地方嗎啊可以堆置這麼久嗎那後續 垮了 判刑了四千兩百桶的五家輪的切消費跑去哪裡
transcript.whisperx[20].start 516.892
transcript.whisperx[20].end 527.079
transcript.whisperx[20].text 委員這個我們來去了解一下好不好你不可以到現在還不知道啊你到現在還不知道就糟糕了不知你會不會不知道你會不會不知道這樣用完會出問題啊這是當時多麼大的案件都已經見報了而且我們還在院會提出質詢的
transcript.whisperx[21].start 543.12
transcript.whisperx[21].end 563.167
transcript.whisperx[21].text 今天的一個使用連線尚未到齊的太陽能光電板損壞了怎麼處理我們答揮所問我們不曉得程序處理太陽能光電板的切削液4200桶的5加侖的這麼大的數量到最終最後什麼地方處理掉了怎麼處理的你們不知道
transcript.whisperx[22].start 566.057
transcript.whisperx[22].end 593.019
transcript.whisperx[22].text 包委員我們回去查一下這是在107年的時候當然就解除列管了當時是由地方政府提清理計畫書給地方政府審查之後他以清理計畫書的內容去執行那107年到現在因為解列我們再去查一下跟委員報告 以上如果地方政府江老天不熟悉相關的程序
transcript.whisperx[23].start 595.37
transcript.whisperx[23].end 610.892
transcript.whisperx[23].text 講藍衣田叫做怠惰叫做堵職的情況之下那我們身為一個主管機關一個監督的單位那我們都不曉得這些東西跑去哪裡環境部到時候不用負責嗎
transcript.whisperx[24].start 615.526
transcript.whisperx[24].end 623.51
transcript.whisperx[24].text 我沒有針對這兩個數據怎麼做,但是我剛才聽起來一直覺得很奇怪這不是現在發生的事情,他們已經實施多久了大型的、家用的怎麼處理,中國已經絕對有一個統一的標準了我了解的是,清潔廠就沒有你收債,你怎麼會說清潔廠有你收債
transcript.whisperx[25].start 639.358
transcript.whisperx[25].end 645.764
transcript.whisperx[25].text 你又說清潔隊還被批准給你,你還把清潔隊處理,讓清潔隊聽你的話要表揚是真的要表揚但是我的理解是沒有啊委員這個我們回去來檢討一下所以如果通通沒有接受你們建議的,清潔隊沒有去搜,那緩之是不是要處分?當然你沒辦法對他處分嘛
transcript.whisperx[26].start 664.551
transcript.whisperx[26].end 685.991
transcript.whisperx[26].text 不過我是覺得張達富很不好啦,真的很不好我要提醒部長,兩位署長請回啦我這邊聽到不是針對這兩個署長我是想說,但是張達富是顯然是...我知道你那個報告寫得很好啦你讓大家覺得他的態度跟應對都很好但是我是要保證你用人也是有問題喔
transcript.whisperx[27].start 688.919
transcript.whisperx[27].end 707.829
transcript.whisperx[27].text 我提醒一下,老挖署,一樣在這個委會,發生什麼事情,勞動部的老挖署,最緊急是北分署,發生那些霸凌的,發生到最後救安基金等等等,那分署長後來遇到什麼狀況,我都不再贅述了。連那個署長,連那個署長兩年內都有101年的異動。
transcript.whisperx[28].start 712.15
transcript.whisperx[28].end 740.593
transcript.whisperx[28].text 所以當時的部長對這個事情沒有處理,就衍生這樣的問題就剛剛我們也特別提到了,開場白你的第一個被質詢的,就是前的機場總隊的隊長嘛我講那個官部很大,但是他就看你大到那裡啊大到他這兒他也不容易開關頂到嘛你看那個不是幾案耶,那個不是一兩件耶,那是好幾件耶所以人民會對政府失去信心了連自己公部門的同仁都會對機關所長失去信心了
transcript.whisperx[29].start 742.904
transcript.whisperx[29].end 762.658
transcript.whisperx[29].text 環境部怎麼可以做出這樣不好的紀錄沒有道理啊環境部照理講不應該發生這種事情而且也不是只有北華署不是老華署還有台鐵還有台鐵一個案件
transcript.whisperx[30].start 766.69
transcript.whisperx[30].end 792.453
transcript.whisperx[30].text 我今天坦白講我是要針對部長的AI報告啦這個AI到時候這個碳排放的一個處理會增加到你還難預估的這樣的一個程度嘛我是在你的報告裡面有啦有看到你在28項裡面推動數位轉型啦AI協力解決環境啦列出了以愛技術解決環境議題內部共用這個行政系統導入AI服務總統杯
transcript.whisperx[31].start 793.533
transcript.whisperx[31].end 816.611
transcript.whisperx[31].text 黑客松競賽只有AI應用這樣而已嗎?這個每一個都很難做我們現在其實已經很多的工作都在融入了例如說會議記錄啊然後例如說環評啊等等我們都有在融入啦我們每一個司署都有AI的工作正在進行當中你剛剛三二說你講一句話我聽了真的也覺得
transcript.whisperx[32].start 817.443
transcript.whisperx[32].end 838.426
transcript.whisperx[32].text 也覺得非常的敬佩你說表示要先推動環境部的數位轉型然後希望主管們都必須要上數位轉型的課程高階主管要懂得分析數據科長等著要寫程式希望以後這些主管的能力可以達到對外面資訊公司挖角的程度
transcript.whisperx[33].start 840.269
transcript.whisperx[33].end 856.842
transcript.whisperx[33].text 這補充說的嘛,就是我看現在應該不是要下程式,是面對這個AI產業的高碳排,環境部要怎麼來因應?能源署有一個應該是副署長吧,他也在講說未來AI半導體這些碳排放,
transcript.whisperx[34].start 857.83
transcript.whisperx[34].end 869.937
transcript.whisperx[34].text 要如何去降低基本上是沒有辦法的啦這是現實啊我們的報告裡面特別強調國家減碳新目標嘛2030年3.2、3.5分別一對照當時基準是2025的時候要達成減量分別是在2.8、3.2、3.8正負2%嘛對不對
transcript.whisperx[35].start 885.899
transcript.whisperx[35].end 914.63
transcript.whisperx[35].text 那你有把這些算進去嗎?有包委員,我們現在是規劃2035年的用電需求量是到3500億度啦有把AI可能的需求都算進去了那目前大概是2800億度左右AI如果處理得好嘛,它或許,在你們報告也特別提到嘛它應用於怎麼煙露判斷啦、聲音監測啦怎麼波形石門瓦、屋頂的空間這個分布的季線調查等等等嘛然後
transcript.whisperx[36].start 915.902
transcript.whisperx[36].end 932.193
transcript.whisperx[36].text 然後他或許還有機會管理得當這個是一個講法說AR的能工智能是雙面刃他雖然有高碳排的問題但如果產業界的一個評估AR在農業、能源、交通等領域運用得當的話預計還可以為全球經濟貢獻度高達5.2萬美元並減少4%的總溫室氣體的排放量
transcript.whisperx[37].start 944.881
transcript.whisperx[37].end 970.541
transcript.whisperx[37].text 是這樣嗎?是對嗎?是但是你的報告裡面我沒有看到因為你分別的30年、32年、35年只是在2%、32年及38年增幅2%對 包委我們是用AI需求的用電量增加放進去但是沒有算出AI讓我們可以減碳的規模我們目前在這個近零的路徑裡面沒有算得清楚那我們要跟部長再特別要求一份就是AI對減碳的衝擊與因應
transcript.whisperx[38].start 972.608
transcript.whisperx[38].end 984.739
transcript.whisperx[38].text 比較詳細的報告可以嗎好因為他就跟用電需求啦所以呃好這個我們想辦法來來討論一下內部來討論一下好再幫部長一個月可以嗎好可以謝謝謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝劉建國稍微的發言也謝謝部長的答詢