| IVOD_ID |
160691 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160691 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-25T14:31:04+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-25T14:51:02+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:19:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b161887eae65c392d9a34e4207b197a5fbec180d4fb51a06cf9e1f550594d553f952555c339954dd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:31:04 - 14:51:02 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。二、4月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、4月29日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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SPEAKER_00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝這個主持人韓院長以及我們的卓院長以及各位先進有請卓院長但是要先拜託主席可不可以時間給我暫停我有權力問題但是要請院長能夠上來麻煩請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
36.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
45.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
向兩位院長報告我之所以提權宜問題啊這是第二次我來總諮詢經濟部長不來第二次我們的韓院長宅心仁厚太好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
67.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
請問主院長你知道我們郭志輝這個部長他的行程嗎跟委員致歉 不過郭部長今早應與總統有重要的行程我秀給你看 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
78.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
早上他九點出席與傳統產業作者座談會這個講得過去因為要關心傳統產業受關稅的影響可是下午咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
85.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
105.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
現在我跟他一點關係都沒有這個賴總統的行程是114年國家政務研究班第16期的什麼高階領導研究班開訓典禮跟他一點關係都沒有所以現在顧部長能在哪裡躲在家裡睡覺啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
106.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
121.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
跟他一個關係都沒有啊總院長你被你的屬下欺騙啊他早上請假我覺得我可以接受可是下午他還請假我不能接受他不到另外今天經濟組很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
123.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
150.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
國家發展委員會 國科會國科會的主委他生病這個情有可原但是老實講這兩位重要的部長這個重要的部會首長居然在國會殿堂兩次 這已經第二次了我不知道為什麼郭部長每次要執行就不在為什麼每次執行就不在我就拜託這個韓院長以後下一次對於我們郭部長他的請假設施可以更嚴格一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
151.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
179.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
委員 容許我跟您報告事事事 請跟左院長一併報告 跟那個官員各位新聞界廣大的台灣人民報告一下伊利法院執行法第26條規定行政院院長及各部會首長應該親自出席伊利法院的院會並被質詢如果因故不能出席則應該檢訟行政院院長批准之請假書今天兩位首長沒有到是左院長行政院有批准這第一第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
180.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
204.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
再次重申要基於對憲法的尊重以及重視本院委員的質詢要特別拜託左院長針對各部會首長除非出國獲得特別重要且迫切的公務要親自處理的情況之下才能予以同意另外後續的質詢各首長列席的情況也特別要拜託左院長能夠尊切 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
224.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們能夠確實來進行處理 好嗎 這樣我想謝謝 謝謝韓院長我希望卓院長能夠確實約束啦他早上請假 我剛剛說過因為要聽業主的聲音 我可以接受但是下午 他跑去胡攏區啦 不知道去哪裡啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
225.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
252.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那還是有其他東西 謝謝但是我每次我都要約束他 我覺得你不可以放縱他郭志輝部長像泥鳅一樣啊 會閃啊早上請假效果就溜掉了 不好啦我選你啦我選你啦每次在會期要開始之前在行政院院會都再三的要求委員長要以親自出席院會的議程為優先他看你沒啊 我替你出氣啊你要知道 我替你講話啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
255.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
281.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我相信你一定同意賴慶德總統說的AI就是國力我們國家全力發展AI台灣什麼人才資訊人才誰誰叫結果我一看人家排名叫AI人才集中度 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
282.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
292.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你現在去看大學的科系啊很多那個好的學校他第一支院已經不是台大醫學院了第一支院就台大志工要去念AI了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
293.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
312.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
即便醫生也想要弄一點AI這是未來的趨勢 未來的主流結果我們的人才集中度第一名你看全世界有十個國家以色列 新加坡跟亞洲有關係的第十名 韓國沒有台灣啦 沒有中華民國啊看了難過啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
314.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
330.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
院長啊 我看了心酸啊你可不可以在這裡公開跟大家承諾啊 或者國科會的副主委你是國科會副主委是不是市長 何市長 經濟部不是 國科會副主委要國科會副主委還是你們要講都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
331.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
347.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你們有沒有企圖心 什麼時候可以紀錄全市民報告委 去年我們在這裡就像國人說過我們國家的高科技製造力是領先的但是軟體設計軟體設計的人才是沒有的所以一年當中我們很難把他趕上這麼多的人才訓練經濟部已經有一個計畫要在四年內訓練20萬的AI人才一部分從國外引進 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
359.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
374.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我不知道你能不能做十年沒有時間我沒有時間聽你講我再請教院長因為這是你院長你帶頭你要不要有一點魄力拿出來一年內我要紀錄前十年多少一個月一年內一年內一年人才的培育不是這樣的簡單兩年兩年我們會達到一個數字像三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
383.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我都說過 四年內我們會培育20萬的AI人才四年內 那我們現在已經過了一年了 等於是三年了從現在開始 我們從現在開始從現在開始依照我們去年的計畫 四年就是 剩下三年了三年內我們要培育20萬的AI人才好啦 好啦 這題是送你分數 讓你發揮啦結果你發揮的不好啦我以為你要來現靠我讀下去就說賴委你放心 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
413.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
438.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我琢磨人在這裡一年內就給他拚到70名教育是百年的大事不是一兩年可以訓練這麼多的人才訓練的人要能夠實用才是重點我在今天很高興看到教授有正道的學生來我在正道當教授包括立法院基調二十年了我知道沒那麼快但是現在幾乎年輕人義和風都有在擠AI |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
439.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以一年內 老實講 你要有魄力給錢 給資源我告訴你 一年內就可以達到這個10名內了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
450.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
459.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我會努力啊不是會努力 你要承諾啊今天來聽你承諾啊不是會聽你會努力啊對不對 會努力的話被他騙啊不是這樣啊 對不對好啦 我們來看啊第二個 大家很關心的我們跟美國的關稅談判啊什麼時候可以開始談 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
471.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
489.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們第一階段 第一次的視訊會議已經不是啦 對不起 那個叫準備庭啦你不要呼嚨 那個叫準備庭 那就誤裝你叫什麼名字 我叫卓榮泰這個你出生年齡日 我不笑臉喔第一個是準備庭啦不是談判啦 談判還沒有開始談判的五個國家 沒有台灣啦 沒有中華民國啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
497.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
523.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
報告委員第一次的接觸已經過大家都知道第二次的接觸我們爭取最快的時間對於雙方的默契在事情到達之前我們不予追問因為90天時間也快到了啊4月2號90天就三個月而已喔就七月份初七月初就到期現在已經四月底馬上就五月了你該不該在這裡做一個我不要你具體時間這是你談判的機密 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
528.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
546.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
但是你可以不可以講說你預估五月底以前一定可以抬到台灣敢這樣講嗎 敢不敢這樣講我說我已備妥方案 我們在很快的時間內是這樣子 問你答案問你答案你都給我抓泥鰍 跑掉了 不可以這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
547.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
571.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
五月一定可以五月一定可以談 五月一定談喔這是我已經記起來了 全國都聽到了五月底以前 台灣一定可以排到跟美國談好 那我們就看那你具體目標 現在10%啦那你一覺醒來 你不知道要怎麼30% 80%對不對那是在中間你都可以接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
573.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
579.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
如果是這個數字你我都不能滿意我不能滿意啊我們現在你知道現在美國關稅台灣的商品去美國關稅課幾%你知道嗎平均6.53%啦6.5那個實際的啦加起來是3%啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
601.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
603.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們是普通的數字如果平均的加起來要更低喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
618.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
636.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
明目上實質就是加權平均之後是3%啦那我們現在是剋10%啦所以現在來講就7%所以就造成很大的影響你也知道我們現在銷到美國是銷1100多億美金去年度的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
638.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
652.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
7%代表什麼意思7%代表77億美金就幾千億的台幣所以才會有你昨天癢癢灑灑的報告出來我們都很清楚因為確實已經有傳統業受到傷害了原來3%現在10%差7%傳統產業的毛利 毛山道士這個7%都賣掉開始有人擔心這個無薪假來 你看喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
667.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
681.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
勞動部長 勞動部長說全台超過10萬個勞工受影響然後呢 關稅 中經院的推估關稅如果10% 現在是10%我們GDP下降到2.85%如果15%到20% 1.66%如果悲觀的話那就32% 只剩下0.16% 甚至於馬納死 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
692.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
715.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以你談的你心裡行政院長總是應該讓全國人民知道你的企圖心我們希望你剛剛講了21%你不能接受我也不能接受我覺得底線你可不可以講我底線就撐在那裡說最多都希望你10%啦如果這樣我就給你放鞭炮我們有交給我們的談判團隊將來在談判的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
718.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
730.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
進行過程當中 一定會堅持一個對我國最有利的方向當然最好更低更好啦齁10% PLUS-3% 我說這個答案是不是講到你心裡的話有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
732.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
758.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
或是你的企圖心我今天都做足給你了我都不知道對你這麼好在談判還沒有開始之前講太多這樣的談判的內容容許我們再做多一點點的思考讓我們在談判過程當中有更大的彈性今天是國會議員問你的話你當然要回答啊表示你的態度拿出來對不對我要讓我的所有的全台灣的產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
760.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
781.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
因為我的領導然後大家的傷害降到最低這是一個企圖性的表現這跟性命沒有關係耶老實講 談判又不是你去談我們的目標就是爭取國家最大的利益讓產業在國際間有競爭力所以我希望我們爭取到的不高於跟我們競爭的國家這個是最低最低你說這東西沒說啦 沒關係 繼續來 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
784.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
808.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
你昨天談了洋洋灑灑4100億啊我們都知道 這一次老實講啊 院長你人實在是不錯啦但是怎麼會 怎麼做這些奇奇怪怪我們一路叫SNEAKY 你知道嗎 SNEAKY用流氓的做法來做這件事情你講 一開始你講八百八齁 再給人家報告啦 給你兩千啦我們 主席啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
812.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
819.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
部隊帶領的時間都很清楚,我們在下部隊最喜歡講一句話,班長你不要把這個這個什麼,這個這個這個你不要把這個好的消息啊把這個幸運當福氣啊客氣當福氣啊,最喜歡講這一句話不要把客氣當福氣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
840.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
864.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們說給你兩千億 結果你現在空四千億真正跟傳統產業有關的只有九百三 原來你八百八加五十億 九百三 都給你 都給你只要跟產業有關的 都給你我個人的意見 都給你一個人都不為難可是你另外跑來兩條很重要的東西一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
866.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
874.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
又說什麼國土安全任性一千五百億另外一個台電一千億請問台電一千億都不看掉你還要 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
877.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
899.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
你是怎麼樣我看了是很寬鬆的喔我說假如你承諾用核電我就主張一千億給你你敢這樣主張嗎一柱台電的一千億我們在產業的座談當中產業界屢屢都提到希望電價不要再調整那當然啦就用用國家的錢向老百姓的錢貼補他們用電報戶當然他們要高興啊所以這兩個而且談到國安的 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
906.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
923.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
國土安全韌性一千五百億不管你買什麼感覺像比較像國防預算這個這兩塊要談的切割出來你不要放在這裡一輪十菜蜜混水摸魚就摸進來了而且講個難聽一點啦趁火打劫啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
924.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
927.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我們 你這個標885 我沒有說要給你2000結果你登彼此上點你要了4100 結果2500億跟這裡面一定關係都沒有院長 不好啦即使沒有關稅調整的這個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
942.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
957.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
原來我們對今年的稅計剩餘我們也來準備用將近三千億來做這個兩千億啊這兩條這兩條你要另外成立一個特別預算另外一題不應該混在這裡這裡的話你是談到我們是受了關稅的影響所以這兩千五百億剛剛好來給我們一人一萬塊一人一萬塊普發現金請你在看上一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
971.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1000.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
你可以看到物價上漲勞工整個來講我相信經濟你也懂經濟的發展除了外銷佔七成我們還有內需啊當時候上一任的總統蔡英文發六千塊主計長朱哲銘說多了就六千塊GDP增加百分之零點三所以如果一萬塊就增加零點五%的GDP |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1002.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1010.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這個都是數字在這裡人家0.5的GDP為什麼你不要然後你去搞這些就是你要錢要這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1012.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1018.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我已經跟你講了你另外提計畫我們給你支持但是不應該在這個Umbrella的地下這個Umbrella是因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1040.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1063.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
美國的關稅衝擊對產業對產業的影響對因為產業的影響勞工受到影響無薪假可能他減薪可能他沒有薪水他沒有工作很可憐啦物價要漲那個樣子給人家一人一萬塊我們對弱勢的照顧這部分也希望委員能夠支持那個也可以照顧沒問題但是你為什麼可以讓你增加GDP0.5% |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1070.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1097.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
你為什麼不要呢?你為什麼不要呢?這是我們最弱勢的道路這次也變成170億170億教育跟人才的培訓也變成200億那很遠啦那很遠是在特別條例通過之後我也不會反對但是我跟你講的是這一條安全任性的一千五plus台電的一千剛好兩千五剛剛好一個人一萬塊這個普發現金你反對嗎?你反對普發現金? |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1098.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1125.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我覺得普發現金是一個最簡單的方式但是不能達到我們現在期待的效果朱正麟的功課可以賺GDP算起來就是0.5%的一個GDP我們國家現在的生命經濟的威脅等等跟關稅貿易秩序的沖繩我們需要依薩成達以一起的力量去對抗我再跟你確定一點啦你反對普發現金一萬就對了 是不是因為普發現金不是最好的方式對我來講也許是最簡單的 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1126.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1149.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
反對普發現金一萬四你講的是不是我覺得他不是好的方向你反對普發現金最簡單不是都不用反對好 還有一個我們來看喔我們現在美國阿拉斯加很北的地方LNG液態天然氣liquid natural gas440億美金 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1153.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1156.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
日本由於韓國標泰要參與這應該得等於蔣介石連就直接叫我們付錢 三個國家付錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1191.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1195.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
好,謝謝賴氏寶委員質詢 |
| gazette.lineno |
15 |
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賴委員士葆：（14時31分）謝謝主持人韓院長、卓院長，以及各位先進。有請卓院長，但是要先拜託主席可不可以給我時間暫停？我有權宜問題，但是要請院長上來。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。 |
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賴委員士葆：向兩位院長報告，我之所以提權宜問題，這是我第二次來總質詢，經濟部長不來。第二次！我們的韓院長宅心仁厚，太好了。請問卓院長，你知道郭智輝部長的行程嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
卓院長榮泰：跟委員致歉，郭部長今早因與總統有重要行程…… |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，我show給你看，他早上九點出席「與傳統產業業者座談會」，這個講得過去，因為關心傳統產業受關稅的影響，可是下午跟他一點關係都沒有，下午賴總統的行程是「114年國家政務研究班第16期及高階領導研究班第15期聯合開訓典禮」，跟他一點關係都沒有，所以現在郭部長人在哪裡？躲在家裡睡覺嗎？跟他一點關係都沒有啊！卓院長，你被你的屬下欺騙了。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我…… |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
賴委員士葆：他早上請假，我覺得可以接受，可是下午他也請假，我不能接受他不到。另外，今天經濟組很重要的國家發展委員會主委生病，這個情有可原。但是老實講這兩位重要的部會首長，居然在國會殿堂缺席兩次，這已經第二次了，我不知道為什麼每次我質詢郭部長就不在，我拜託韓院長，下一次對郭部長請假是不是可以更嚴格一點？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
主席：委員，容許我跟你報告一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
賴委員士葆：是，請。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
主席：跟卓院長一併報告，也跟各位內閣官員、各位新聞界和廣大的臺灣人民報告一下。第一，依立法院職權行使法第二十六條規定，行政院院長及各部會首長應該親自出席立法院院會，並備質詢，因故不能出席者，應該檢送行政院院長批准之請假書。今天兩位首長沒有到，行政院卓院長有批准。第二，再次重申，基於對憲法之尊重，以及重視本院委員的質詢，要特別拜託卓院長，各部會首長除非出國或者有特別重要且迫切的公務要親自處理的情況之下，才能予以同意。另外，後續質詢各首長列席的情況，也特別要拜託卓院長能夠確實進行處理，好嗎？賴委員，這樣我想我也跟您報告了，那我們就正式開始質詢，好嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝韓院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
賴委員士葆：我希望卓院長能夠確實約束，他早上請假，我剛剛說過，因為要聽業者的聲音，我可以接受，但是下午他跑去糊弄，不知道去哪裡了。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
卓院長榮泰：他還是有其他公務行程，但是我每次都…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
賴委員士葆：要約束他，我覺得你不可以放縱他。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
卓院長榮泰：不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
賴委員士葆：郭智輝部長像泥鰍一樣啊！會閃啊！早上請假，下午就溜掉了，不好啦！這樣有損你啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，每次在會期要開始之前，我在行政院院會都再三要求部會首長要以親自出席院會的議程為優先。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
賴委員士葆：他看不起你啊！我替你出氣啊！你要知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
卓院長榮泰：不會、不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
賴委員士葆：我替你講話啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
主席：賴委員，現在我們開始進入正式質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，開始詢答。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
主席：時間開始，請賴委員質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
賴委員士葆：我相信你一定同意賴清德總統所講的AI就是國力，對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
賴委員士葆：我們國家全力發展AI，臺灣什麼沒有？資訊人才「削削叫」！結果我一看，乖乖，人家的排名叫AI人才集中度，你現在去看大學的科系，很多好的學校，它的第一志願已經不是臺大醫學院了，第一志願是臺大資工，要去唸AI了，即便醫生也想弄一點AI，這是未來的趨勢、未來的主流。結果我們的人才集中度，你看全世界前10個國家，以色列、新加坡，跟亞洲有關係的第10名是韓國，沒有臺灣啦！沒有中華民國啊！看了難過啊！院長，我看了心酸啦！你可不可以在這裡公開跟大家承諾？或者國科會的副主委來，你是國科會副主委是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是何次長，經濟部。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是，要國科會副主委。還是你們要講？都可以。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
賴委員士葆：你們有沒有企圖心？什麼時候可以擠入前10名？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，去年我們在這裡就向國人說過，我們國家的高科技製造力是領先的，但是我們軟體設計的人才是不足的。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有耶！前10名都沒有耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
卓院長榮泰：所以一年當中我們很難趕上這麼多的人才訓練，經濟部已經有一個計畫，要在四年內訓練20萬的AI人才…… |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以四年才能擠進前10名？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
卓院長榮泰：一部分從國內訓練，一部分從國外引進。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
賴委員士葆：我不知道你能不能做四年！ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
高副主任委員仙桂：…… |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
賴委員士葆：我沒有時間聽你講，我就請教院長，因為這是院長你帶頭，你要不要有一點魄力拿出來，一年內我要擠入前10名，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
卓院長榮泰：多少？一個月？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
賴委員士葆：一年內、一年內，一年。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
卓院長榮泰：人才的培育不是這樣的…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
賴委員士葆：兩年？ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
卓院長榮泰：兩年我們會達到一個數字，像…… |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
賴委員士葆：三年？ |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我剛剛說過了，四年內我們會培育20萬的AI人才。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
賴委員士葆：院長啊！三年都不敢…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
卓院長榮泰：四年內……那我們現在已經過了一年了，等於是三年啦！ |
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賴委員士葆：從現在開始，我們從現在開始，從現在開始。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
卓院長榮泰：依照我們去年的計畫四年，就是剩下三年啦！三年內我們要培育20萬的AI人才。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
賴委員士葆：太慢啦！好啦、好啦！這一題是送你分數，讓你發揮啦！結果你也發揮得不好啦！我以為你會拍胸脯說：賴委員你放心，我卓某人在這裡一年內就給它拼到前10名。這樣才是我要的啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
卓院長榮泰：教育是百年的大事，不是一兩年可以訓練這麼多的人才。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
賴委員士葆：我知道啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
卓院長榮泰：而且訓練的人要能夠實用才是重點啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
賴委員士葆：今天很高興看到有政大的學生來，我在政大當教授，包括立法院借調，20年了啦！我知道沒那麼快，但是現在幾乎年輕人一窩蜂的在擠AI啦！所以一年內老實講你要有魄力，給錢、給資源，我告訴你，一年內就可以達到10名內啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們會努力。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是會努力，你要承諾啊！今天來聽你承諾啊！不是聽你說會努力啊！對不對？會努力就是討價還價，就不是這樣啊！對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][1] |
好啦！我們來看一兩個大家很關心的，我們跟美國的關稅談判，什麼時候可以開始談？ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們第一階段第一次的視訊會議，已經在4月11號…… |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
賴委員士葆：那個不是啦！對不起，那個叫「準備庭」啦！你不要糊弄，那個叫準備庭，那是問你叫什麼名字？我叫卓榮泰；你的出生年月日？很年輕耶！第一個是準備庭啦！那不是談判，談判還沒有開始，談判的5個國家沒有臺灣啦！沒有中華民國啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，第一次的接觸大家都知道，第二次的接觸，我們會爭取最快的時間…… |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼時候嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
卓院長榮泰：依雙方的默契，在事情最後到達之前，我們不宜對外說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
賴委員士葆：我知道，但是你總是……因為90天時間也快到了，4月2號說的，90天就三個月而已喔！7月初就到期，現在已經4月底，馬上就5月了…… |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我方已備妥方案。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
賴委員士葆：你可不可以在這裡做一個……我不要你具體時間，這是你談判的機密，我尊重，但是你可不可以預估5月底以前一定可以排到臺灣，你敢這樣講嗎？敢不敢這樣講？ |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我是說我已備妥方案，我們在很快的時間內可以…… |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
賴委員士葆：怎麼還是這樣子！我問你答案，你都給我裝泥鰍跑掉了，不可以這樣子啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
卓院長榮泰：5月一定可以。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
賴委員士葆：院長，5月一定可以談，5月一定談喔！這事我已經記起來了，全國都聽到了，5月底以前臺灣一定可以排到跟美國談。好，我們就看你的具體目標，現在是10%，你一覺醒來就不知道該怎麼辦，因為變成32%了，對不對？那在中間的話，你都可以接受嗎？比如說，不然就是「殘殘豆乾切五角」，直接切一半，10%加32%，42%除以2就是21%，21%你滿意嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
卓院長榮泰：如果是這個數字，你我都不能滿意啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
賴委員士葆：不能滿意啊！你知道我們臺灣的商品現在去美國的關稅是課百分之幾嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
卓院長榮泰：平均6.5%。 |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
賴委員士葆：3%啦，怎麼是6.5%？ |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
卓院長榮泰：平均啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
賴委員士葆：要看實際的啦，加權下來是3%啦，你那個是nominal（名目）6.5%，實質是3%，對吧？那個經濟部次長…… |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是平均…… |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
賴委員士葆：是3%，不是6.5%。 |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
卓院長榮泰：平均的還要更低。 |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
賴委員士葆：3%啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們是普通的數字，如果是平均的加起來還會更低。 |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
賴委員士葆：名目上……實質就是加權平均之後是3%啦！好，我們現在是課10%，所以現在差7%，就會造成很大的影響。你也知道我們去年度銷到美國的有一千一百多億美金，所以7%代表什麼意思？7%代表77億美金，就是幾千億臺幣，所以才會有你昨天洋洋灑灑的報告出來。我們都很清楚，因為確實已經有傳統產業受到傷害了，原來是3%，現在是10%，差了7%，傳統產業的毛利只有「毛三到四」，一次多7%，真的是承受不了，開始有人擔心無薪假了。 |
| gazette.blocks[80][1] |
你看，勞動部長說，全臺超過10萬個勞工受影響，然後中經院的推估，關稅如果是10%，現在就是10%，我們的GDP就會下修到2.85%，如果是15%到20%，就是1.66%，如果悲觀的話，課32%就只剩0.16%，甚至是minus，對不對？所以你心裡……行政院長總是要讓全國人民知道你的企圖心，我們希望就像你剛剛講的，21%你不能接受，我也不能接受，我覺得底線……你可不可以講，我的底線就是撐在那裡，最多就是給你10%啦！如果這樣，我就給你放鞭炮。 |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
卓院長榮泰：底線我有交給我們的談判團隊，將來在談判進行的過程當中，我們會堅持一個對我國最有利的方向。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
賴委員士葆：當然是愈低愈好啦！10%plus、minus3%可不可以？我說的這個答案，是不是有講到你心裡的話，有沒有？否則你的企圖心呢？我今天都一直在做球給你耶，都不知道我對你這麼好！ |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
卓院長榮泰：在談判還沒有開始之前，講太多這樣的談判內容……容許我們再做多一點點的思考，讓我們在談判的過程當中會有更大的彈性。 |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
賴委員士葆：今天是國會議員問你，你當然要回答啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
卓院長榮泰：就是因為這個地方…… |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
賴委員士葆：把你的態度拿出來，對不對？我要讓全臺灣所有的產業因為我的領導，把大家的傷害降到最低，這是一個企圖心的表現，這跟洩密沒有關係。老實講，談判也不是你去談。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們的目標就是爭取國家最大的利益，讓產業在國際之間有競爭力，所以我希望爭取到的高於跟我們競爭的國家，這個最低最低的…… |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
賴委員士葆：你講這個等於沒講，不要緊，繼續來。你昨天談了洋洋灑灑的4,100億，我們都知道這一次……老實講，院長，你的人實在是不錯啦！但是怎麼會做這些奇奇怪怪的事，在英文這就叫做sneaky，你知道sneaky嗎？用溜的做法來做這個事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[88][1] |
一開始你講880億，在野黨說不夠，給你2,000億啦！我們主席在部隊待了一段時間都很清楚，我們下部隊，班長就會先講一句話：對於這個好的消息，你要把幸運當福氣、把客氣當福氣。他們最喜歡講這一句話：不要把客氣當福氣啦！我們說給你2,000億，結果你現在匡列4,000億，真正跟傳統產業有關的只有930億，原來880億加50億是930億，也都給你，只要跟產業有關的都給你，我個人的意見都給你，一點都不為難！可是你另外又加了兩條很重要的預算，一個叫做國土安全韌性1,500億，另外一個是台電1,000億。台電的1,000億都被砍掉了，你還要？你是怎麼樣？我個人是很寬鬆的喔，我說假如你承諾使用核電，我就主張1,000億給你，你敢這樣主張嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
卓院長榮泰：挹注台電的1,000億是我們在跟產業界的座談當中，產業界屢屢都提到，希望電價不要再調漲，我們希望…… |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
賴委員士葆：那當然啊！就用國家的錢、小老百姓的錢來貼補他們用電大戶，當然他們要高興啊！是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
卓院長榮泰：為了能夠健全台電的財政…… |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
賴委員士葆：再談到國安的國土安全韌性1,500億，不管你買什麼，感覺比較像國防預算，這兩塊要談的話，請切割出來，不要放在這裡面像「什錦麵」，混水摸魚就摸進來了，而且講個難聽一點，趁火打劫啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，並非如此。 |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
賴委員士葆：你要880億，我們說要給你2,000億，結果你蹬鼻子上臉，要了4,100億，結果2,500億跟這裡面一點關係都沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
卓院長榮泰：在日前跟今天都有說過…… |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
賴委員士葆：院長，不好啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
卓院長榮泰：即使沒有關稅調整的這個事件…… |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
賴委員士葆：這樣不好啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
卓院長榮泰：原本我們對今年的歲計賸餘，也準備用將近3,000億來做特別條例、特別預算的…… |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
賴委員士葆：用這2,000億來做這兩條！這兩條你要，就另外成立一個特別預算，另外去提，不應該混在這裡…… |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
卓院長榮泰：特別預算…… |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
賴委員士葆：你是談到我們受了關稅的影響，所以這2,500億剛剛好可以普發現金給我們一人1萬元。你可以看到物價上漲，對勞工整個來講……我相信經濟你也懂，經濟的發展，除了外銷占7成，我們還有內需啦！上一任的總統蔡英文普發6,000元，時任主計長朱澤民說：多了這6,000元，GDP增加了0.3%。所以如果普發1萬元就增加0.5%的GDP，數字都在這裡，增加0.5%的GDP，為什麼你不要，而是去搞這些，要這麼多錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，關稅…… |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
賴委員士葆：趁火打劫，不好啦！院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
卓院長榮泰：在新關稅之下，全球的貿易秩序在重整，而且在地緣政治下，臺灣面臨了很多新的威脅，我們希望國家的力量能夠集中在這裡，以聚沙成塔的方式去面對直接威脅的風暴。 |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
賴委員士葆：我已經跟你講了，你另外提計畫，我們給你支持，但是不應該在這個umbrella底下，這umbrella是因應美國的關稅衝擊對產業的影響，也因為產業的影響，導致勞工也受到影響，像是可能放無薪假、被減薪、沒有薪水、沒有工作，很可憐啦！物價又漲的那個樣子，給他們一人1萬元。 |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們對產業界的損失、對弱勢的照顧，這部分也希望委員能夠支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
賴委員士葆：那個可以照顧，這沒問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對弱勢的照顧、為人才的培育，我們都有編啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
賴委員士葆：但是明明可以讓你增加0.5%的GDP，你為什麼不要呢？你為什麼不要呢？這是主計長提到的。 |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們對弱勢的照顧，在這次編了170億。 |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
賴委員士葆：170億？ |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
卓院長榮泰：教育跟人才的培訓也編了200億。 |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
賴委員士葆：那很遠啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
卓院長榮泰：當然都是在特別條例通過之後…… |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
賴委員士葆：那個我也不會反對，但是我跟你講的是國土安全韌性的1,500億plus台電的1,000億，總共2,500億，剛剛好一個人1萬元，就是普發現金，你反對嗎？你反對普發現金？ |
| gazette.blocks[117][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我覺得普發現金是一個最簡單的方式，但是無法達到我們現在期待的效果。 |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
賴委員士葆：前主計長朱澤民說，算起來可以增加0.5%的GDP，不得了了，0.5%GDP很了不起耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們國家現在面臨新的威脅跟關稅貿易秩序的重整，我們需要聚沙成塔，用大家的力量一起去面對它。 |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
賴委員士葆：好啦！我再跟你確定一點，你反對普發現金1萬就對了，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[121][0] |
卓院長榮泰：普發現金不是最好的方式，對政府來講也許是最簡單的。 |
| gazette.blocks[122][0] |
賴委員士葆：你回答我，反對普發現金1萬是你講的，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我覺得它不是好的方向…… |
| gazette.blocks[124][0] |
賴委員士葆：就你反對嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[125][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對政府來講，普發現金最簡單，什麼都不用煩惱…… |
| gazette.blocks[126][0] |
賴委員士葆：好。另外一個，我們來看，現在美國阿拉斯加（在很北的地方）LNG（液態天然氣Liquefied Natural Gas）案耗資440億美金，日本猶豫，韓國表態要參與，這個東西講難聽點就是直接叫我們三個國家付錢，這個我們要不要付？我們要不要參與？ |
| gazette.blocks[127][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對美的投資與採購，我們都審慎進行當中，會以國家的利益為重。 |
| gazette.blocks[128][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以就是參與就對了？ |
| gazette.blocks[129][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們再評估對國家最大的利益。 |
| gazette.blocks[130][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼時候可以出來？ |
| gazette.blocks[131][0] |
卓院長榮泰：現在我沒有時間表。 |
| gazette.blocks[132][0] |
賴委員士葆：這個很重要喔！這個耗資440億美金，如果我們全部參與的話，等於川普要我們吐出來的錢就全部吐出來了，還要370億吐給他，440億就夠了啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[133][0] |
主席：謝謝賴士葆委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[133][1] |
報告院會，現在議場二樓是來自國立臺灣大學法律系的同學，未來臺灣的棟梁、人才，我們掌聲歡迎！ |
| gazette.blocks[133][2] |
接下來下面登記的蔡其昌委員、鍾佳濱委員、沈發惠委員、徐富癸委員、蔡易餘委員等之質詢，均以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
98 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-3-9 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
葛如鈞 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
吳琪銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
沈發惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
丁學忠 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
30 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-04-25 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1143901 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1143901_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[1] |
1143901_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第3會期第9次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
施政質詢
對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─ |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1143901_00003 |