| IVOD_ID |
160685 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160685 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-25T10:34:52+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-25T10:50:34+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:42 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b161887eae65c3926ca8407ebd5b8c89fbec180d4fb51a06734e47bd71ec00634cbb1eeebf50ae7b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:34:52 - 10:50:34 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第9次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。二、4月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、4月29日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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謝謝院長,麻煩有請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢黃委員好院長好面對美國川普的高關稅的政策我們的政府在過去這段時間當中做了很多宣示 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.451 |
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其中一個非常重要的宣示是針對美國政府所關心中國產品洗產地的問題院長講得非常的好我們要緊盯洗產地設三道防線MIT就是MIT我們要擦亮招牌打齊冒牌我相信這個價值我們大家都非常的支持謝謝但我現在看不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.023 |
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我看不懂什麼事情我說防止洗產地MIT就是MIT但我們看到的是什麼我們看到的是啊拿台灣納稅人的錢去投資的聯合再生當初拿了30億國家的錢說要扶植我們本土的太陽能產業結果在幹什麼事情啊結果在幹的事情是要幫中國賣太陽能電子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.119 |
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101.491 |
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這個事情我之前已經執行過國發會了國發會主委跟我說他這件事情會去了解清楚他今天請假沒來現在行政院了解的結果是什麼丟人現眼拿台灣納稅人的錢去投資結果台灣國家隊現在變成中國貼牌隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
110.06 |
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137.094 |
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我請副主委向委員報告對 我們已經請聯合再生來拒絕就是說他不會有這樣的行為喔 只要拒絕就好了不是 我們已經善盡我們督導前面拿了30億說要成立台灣的太陽能國家隊結果成為什麼中國太陽能代理商從越南進來標準的洗產地行為啊我再說一次啊拿納稅的錢拿了30億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
139.963 |
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144.57 |
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成立太陽能國家隊啊口號喊得很好聽啊實際上在幹什麼在賣中國貼牌貨啊院長可以容忍嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
149.94 |
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151.401 |
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不可以容忍嗎?不可以容忍嗎?不可以容忍嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
174.495 |
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他解決以後不會再犯了他這樣就算了喔他有抵觸現行法律依法律執行他如果拒絕以後不再有這種行為我們就會嚴格的要求以後每一件事情我們再繼續往下看我老實講拿納稅人的錢幹這種事情丟台灣人的臉讓所有台灣的納稅人心寒還不是只有太陽能國家隊幹這種丟臉的事情我們繼續再往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
204.195 |
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230.883 |
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行政院通令全國公務機關2021年底全面台灣中國製的滋痛產品對不對這沒有錯嘛這公開的資訊嘛現在有貫徹這個指令嗎對有嗎成品當中有含中成分的我們還是一律要禁止的來我們繼續我們繼續往下看啦空話關話不用講太多啦生銳電子 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
233.363 |
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257.674 |
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鄭文燦的好朋友啊成立什麼安控國家隊啊安控國家隊啊那個時候的招牌是什麼招牌是說啊為台灣的資通信產品把關啊所有的產品已經應用在哪裡台電台鐵桃園機場全部都是什麼關鍵基礎設施啊結果呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
259.045 |
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287.119 |
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結果成立了所謂的安控國家隊淪為一場大笑話為什麼淪為一場大笑話從中國去進監視器改標MIT這絕對不是院長所講的MIT就是MIT這個MIT是中國貼牌貨我們的國防部軍事要塞關鍵基礎的設施全面都淪陷了行政院對這件事情掌握的程度如何說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
288.217 |
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316.406 |
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我要求MIT就是MIT是從這一次開始對這件事情掌握的情況怎麼樣我還是說過我們會嚴查當中有不法的情況說過的話就不用說了啦你嘴巴說要嚴查嘛那我現在就問你嘛這件事情掌握的狀況如何來說明一下還是完全沒掌握所以我必須去查到目前為止行政院不知道這件事我手上沒有這家電子公司的資料經濟部知不知道這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
318.421 |
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329.774 |
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我們回去再瞭解一下國發會知不知道這件事我想我們進一步要瞭解我要跟院長報告的是什麼你的行政團隊螺絲吊滿地這是公開資訊我再強調一次這是公開資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
339.178 |
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359.506 |
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一個負責任的行政團隊當看到這樣公開資訊的時候如果有把院長您說的話放在心裡面的話早就嚴查徹查下去啦第二個關心的是什麼有多少關鍵基礎設施還在用這種中國的貼牌貨不是早該清查了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
360.816 |
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389.283 |
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院長我有說錯嗎沒有錯那問題是清查了沒有如果剛剛您說的那是2021年我們還是概括的承受我們會重新再請表達不是2021年啦剛剛你說是2021年那是2021年作為這個宣示啊這個案子什麼時候查出來的兩個月以前查出來的兩個月以前查出來的如果是昨天查出來的那我會說只有一天的時間不夠兩個月前查出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
390.202 |
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415.86 |
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站在你左右兩邊的經濟部國發會我會盡快把已經查到的資訊向委員也向社會公開報告來 再往下看依法裁罰了嗎從你剛剛的反應啊我就必須要講絕對沒有罰啦從你剛剛的反應我就知道絕對沒有罰我們的政府非常會做大內卻 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
417.762 |
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445.84 |
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中國產品來談洗產地最重罰300萬還可以廢紙輸出入許可結果呢當整個政府螺絲吊滿地不僅僅是末端的神經麻痺連中樞神經可能都麻痺了這些東西可以放在我們的關鍵基礎設施喔從機場到台鐵到國防部結果部長不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
449.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
451.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
全面清查 需要多久這些標案啊 好幾億啊我每一個都查出來了台灣的安控國家隊 現在變成中國的貼牌隊這些案子 我列出來了 全部清查清查需要多久 來 院長給個時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
473.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
499.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如果委員提供這些案子的資訊包括這些在內我們能夠清楚我相信我在兩個禮拜之內給你兩個禮拜之內我三個問題啦第一個要怎麼處理第二個全面清查完畢第三個這種安控國家隊還從我們前瞻基礎建設去拿補貼去拿補助我再說一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
500.53 |
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522.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這種劣質的公司拿什麼補助啊全部追回來可不可以我們要看當初申請補助的流程程序若有違法的地方我們會檢討甚至做不必要的處分繼續再往下上一次去年的時候您剛上任我在這邊質詢的時候我給你提了一個非常嚴肅的問題那個嚴肅的問題是發展綠能 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
527.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
556.399 |
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我們要嚴加打擊不法我百分之百贊成立揚光電蔡英文後援會會長英系的權貴搞得立揚在台南那邊的光電廠現在確認是違法取得的我去年五月的時候請教你啊說這個違法的電業籌設許可要不要撤銷你說你會回去什麼依法處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
557.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
581.423 |
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快一年了,目前處理的進度如何?請說明跟我們報告,這個案子我們有要求台電在法院判決還沒有確定還有本部還沒有核發電業製造之前我們絕對不會...這個是去年的進度啊,你累個非常不久啦現在我只有兩個基本的問題第一個,這個電業重設許可是不是違法取得的?是還是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
583.03 |
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604.552 |
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這個部分我們已經有函請台南市政府這邊...所以是台南市政府在包庇嗎?包委員 這個是需要經過一個認定當然嘛 所以你說去年站在你旁邊的院長說要依法處理啊我也給院長時間依法處理啦 處理到現在快一年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
605.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
629.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
一年處理不出來喔委員報委剛剛市長有說過在法院沒有判決之前我們不會再做任何等一下要說明清楚喔現在法院在細數的案子是刑事訴訟程序啊它是有關於有沒有犯罪行為的事情現在我在跟你講的是行政處分的合法性啊行政處分的合法性要不要撤銷行政處分依照行政程序法的規定是誰的權責 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
631.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
644.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那不是行政機關的權責嗎給你去調查一年調查不出來其實已經我們目前來講已經是停止他目前的一個升級的一個狀況了那整個你說停止他升級的狀況現在是不是持續在發電 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
648.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
677.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
是持續來發電對啊但是我們這個違法的廠商你電業求生許可違法取得你還不撤銷你不是包庇什麼是包庇我有說錯嗎沒有支付任何費用啊我有說錯嗎那那個跟委員報告其實我們要依法行政啦當然要依法行政啊所以我才問你嘛這個行政處分等一下等一下這個行政處分是合法還是違法還是你不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
679.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
695.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
只有三個答案嘛 這個行政處分 合法 違法 我不知道哪一個答案 請說明是否依照系主法院當中的案件判決之後我們會做進一步的處理院長我再跟你講一次啦 刑事訴訟在處理的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
700.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
728.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
在處理的是有沒有犯罪行為的問題啊行政處分合不合法是行政機關的權責啊就是行政程序法的ABC啊我再問一次這個行政處分合法違法還是我不知道一年的喔剛剛趙市長的答覆是我們已經暫停他現在所有的程序了對不起我問A問題 你們在回答B問題啊這個行政處分合法違法還是我不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
730.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
749.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
行政處分是否有瑕疵現在正在正在調查當中調查一年耶剛剛已經說了 他現在已經暫停了如果他行政 行事處分有出來的話所以呢 現在你們跟全國是全國的公司都一樣行政處分即使有違法我主管機關我還是沒有要撤銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
750.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
770.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我能幫你拖就幫你拖啊電繼續發啊有這樣搞的來我直接給你看我們沒有拖延的責任沒有拖延從去年到現在還沒拖延喔從去年到今年還沒有拖延喔這不是拖延什麼是拖延這不是拖延什麼是拖延你還敢在這邊狡辯喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
772.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
797.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
其實這個相關的程序我們現在有請台南市政府來做認證你今天代表經濟部站在這裡我就問你最直接的問題這麼簡單行政法的概念可以在這邊混了一年沒有答案來看一下避免農地破碎的小二甲禁令你應該很清楚吧對吧 已經禁止開吧是是是 有三個例外嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
798.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
810.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你要符合這三個例外才可以發電業重設許可嗎來請問你到現在還不敢處理的力量是符合哪一個例外的段數說明我給你一年的時間喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
812.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
832.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我如果昨天問 今天找你要答案可能是我不夠厚道我問你一年你今天如果還沒有答案不要說我沒辦法接受啦革命都沒辦法接受因為這個案子他是在108年喔所以是拿一個但書不要在那邊拖時間嘛所以整個申請的程序到底合不合法 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
833.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
847.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們在113年的7月跟9月都已經有喊請台南市政府來確認台南市政府確認的結果是什麼他目前還沒有回他還沒有回所以真相大白了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
848.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
865.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
就真相大白了嘛 你就勇敢講嘛這黃偉哲在包庇嘛黃偉哲在拖延嘛我們中央政府也很無奈啊問了台南市政府問了一年到現在都還沒有答案你就勇敢講嘛 怕什麼怕什麼我直接跟你講前例啊我第一次在當立法委員的時候我在追大創的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
878.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
898.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
當時的經濟部部長沈榮津怎麼處理事稱明確違法的處分不僅撤銷還禁止他們輸出入行政處分都出來了那個時候我從來沒聽沈榮津講說委員對不起喔我要等到刑事訴訟程序了以後才能夠處理該處理就要處理了啦經濟部可不可以發一個函給台南市政府問你還要拖多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
908.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
926.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
會困難嗎?可不可以發這個行給台南市政府,副本給我可以可以,我們可以再請他處理拖一年喔拖一年喔大家都在看啊是綠營權貴就可以包庇喔要包庇這麼久看不下去啊我們立刻發來好,謝謝黃國昌委員質詢,謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢接下來我們請黃珊珊委員發言請王定宇委員準備 |
| gazette.lineno |
802 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
黃委員國昌：（10時34分）謝謝院長，麻煩有請卓院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
卓院長榮泰：黃委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
黃委員國昌：院長好。面對美國川普的高關稅政策，我們的政府在過去這段時間當中做了很多宣示，其中一個非常重要的宣示是針對美國政府所關心中國產品洗產地的問題，院長講得非常的好：我們要緊盯洗產地，設三道防線，MIT就是MIT，我們要擦亮招牌，打擊冒牌。我相信這個價值，我們大家都非常的支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
黃委員國昌：但我現在看不懂，我看不懂什麼事情？你們說要防止洗產地，MIT就是MIT，但我們看到的是什麼？我們看到的是拿臺灣納稅人的錢去投資的聯合再生，當初拿了30億國家的錢，說要扶植我們本土的太陽能產業，結果在幹什麼事情？結果在幹的事情是要幫中國賣太陽能電池。這個事情我之前已經質詢過國發會，國發會主委跟我說這件事情他會去了解清楚，但他今天請假沒來。請問現在行政院了解的結果是什麼？丟人現眼！拿臺灣納稅人的錢去投資，結果呢？臺灣國家隊現在變成中國貼牌隊！ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
卓院長榮泰：請副主委向委員報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
高副主任委員仙桂：我們已經請聯合再生來具結，就是它不會有這樣的行為。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
黃委員國昌：只要具結就好了？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
高副主任委員仙桂：不是，我們已經善盡我們督導的責任。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
黃委員國昌：前面拿了30億，說要成立臺灣的太陽能國家隊，結果成為什麼？中國太陽能代理商！從越南進來，這是標準的洗產地行為。我再說一次，拿納稅人的錢拿了30億，成立太陽能國家隊，口號喊得很好聽，實際上在幹什麼？在賣中國貼牌貨！院長，可以容忍嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
卓院長榮泰：不可以。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
黃委員國昌：不可以容忍！ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，未來在國際貿易秩序重整的過程當中，洗產地這個狀況、貼標籤這個狀況，或是產品當中有含中成分這個狀況，在世界上，尤其在美國市場上會遭到很大的阻礙，我們必須做自我的管理，過去如果有這樣的行為，我們已經要求嚴查；如果它具結，未來…… |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
黃委員國昌：嚴查以後呢？如果它切結後又再犯了呢？這樣就算了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
卓院長榮泰：如果它有牴觸現行法律，依法律執行；如果具結以後不再有這種行為，我們就會嚴格的要求，以後每一件事…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
黃委員國昌：老實講，拿納稅人的錢幹這種事情，是丟臺灣人的臉，讓所有臺灣納稅人心寒，還不是只有太陽能國家隊幹這種丟臉的事情。我們再繼續往下看，行政院通令全國公務機關2021年底全面汰換中國製的資通產品，對不對？這沒有錯嘛！這是公開的資訊嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
黃委員國昌：現在有貫徹這個指令嗎？有嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
卓院長榮泰：成品當中有含中成分的，我們還是一律要禁止的，如果因為某些部位…… |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
黃委員國昌：我們繼續往下看，空話、官話不用講太多，昇銳電子，是鄭文燦的好朋友；成立了所謂的安控國家隊，安控國家隊那個時候的招牌是什麼？它的招牌是，為臺灣的資通訊產品把關。而它所有的產品已經應用在哪裡呢？包括台電、臺鐵、桃園機場全部都是什麼？關鍵基礎設施！結果呢？結果成立了所謂的安控國家隊，淪為一場大笑話，為什麼淪為一場大笑話？從中國進口監視器改標MIT，這絕對不是院長所講的MIT就是MIT。這個MIT是中國貼牌貨，我們的國防部軍事要塞、關鍵基礎設施，全面都淪陷了，行政院對這件事情掌握的程度如何？請說明一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我要求MIT就是MIT，是從這一次開始…… |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
黃委員國昌：是，所以對這件事情掌握的情況是怎麼樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
卓院長榮泰：針對過去我還是有說過，我們會嚴查，當中有不法的情況，依現行的法律來做處理…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
黃委員國昌：說過的話就不用說了，你嘴巴說要嚴查，那我現在就問你嘛！這件事情掌握的狀況如何？你來說明一下，還是完全沒掌握？ |
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卓院長榮泰：這個我必須去查。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
黃委員國昌：到目前為止，行政院不知道這件事？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我手上沒有這一家電子公司的資料。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
黃委員國昌：我問一下，經濟部知不知道這件事？ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
何次長晉滄：報告委員，我們回去再了解一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
黃委員國昌：國發會知不知道這件事？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
高副主任委員仙桂：我想我們要進一步了解。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
黃委員國昌：我要跟院長報告的是什麼？你的行政團隊螺絲掉滿地，這是公開資訊，這是公開資訊，我再強調一次，這是公開資訊，當一個負責任的行政團隊看到這樣的公開資訊時，如果有把院長您說的話放在心裡面的話，早就嚴查、徹查下去了！第二個關心的是什麼？對於有多少關鍵基礎設施還在用這種中國的貼牌貨，不是早該清查了嗎？院長，我有說錯嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：沒有錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
黃委員國昌：那問題是清查了沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
卓院長榮泰：如果剛剛您說的那是2021年，我們還是概括的承受，我們會重新開啟調查。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
黃委員國昌：這不是2021年啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
卓院長榮泰：剛剛你說是2021年。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
黃委員國昌：那是在2021年做了這個宣示，這個案子是什麼時候查出來的？是在2個月以前查出來的，在2個月以前查出來的，如果是昨天查出來的，那我會說只有1天的時間不夠，可是這是在2個月以前查出來的，站在你左右兩邊的經濟部、國發會毫無所知喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我會儘快把已經查到的資訊向委員、也向社會公開報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
黃委員國昌：來，再往下看，依法裁罰了嗎？從你剛剛的反應，我就必須要講絕對沒有罰啦！從你剛剛的反應，我就知道絕對沒有罰啊！我們的政府非常會做大內宣，中國產品來臺洗產地，最重罰300萬，還可以廢止輸出入許可，結果呢？當整個政府螺絲掉滿地，不僅僅是末端的神經麻痺，連中樞神經可能都麻痺了，這些東西可以放在我們的關鍵基礎設施喔？從機場、到臺鐵、到國防部，結果部長不知道！全面清查需要多久的時間？這些標案的金額都好幾億，我每一個都查出來了！臺灣的安控國家隊現在變成中國的貼牌隊，這些案子我列出來了，全部清查需要多久？來，院長給一個時間。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
卓院長榮泰：委員提供這些案子的資訊，包括這些在內，我們能夠清楚，我相信我在2個禮拜之內給委員一個答復。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
黃委員國昌：在2個禮拜之內。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
卓院長榮泰：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
黃委員國昌：我提三個問題，第一個是要怎麼處理，第二個是全面清查完畢，然後第三個是這種安控國家隊還從我們前瞻基礎建設去拿補貼、去拿補助，我再說一次，這種劣質的公司拿什麼補助啊？要全部追回來，可不可以？ |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們要看當初申請補助的流程、程序，如果有違法的地方，我們會檢討，甚至做一個必要的處分。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
黃委員國昌：繼續再往下，上一次在去年您剛上任的時候，我在這邊質詢時有跟你提了一個非常嚴肅的問題，那個嚴肅的問題是在發展綠能時我們要嚴加打擊不法，我百分之百贊成。像力暘光電，蔡英文後援會會長、英系的權貴在臺南那邊搞的力暘光電廠，現在確認是違法取得電業籌設許可，我在去年5月的時候請教你這個違法的電業籌設許可要不要撤銷，你說你會回去依法處理，快1年了，目前處理的進度如何？請說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，這個案子我們有要求台電在法院判決還沒有確定還有本部還沒有核發電業執照之前，我們絕對不會…… |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
黃委員國昌：這個是去年的進度，你lag非常的久啦！現在我只有兩個基本的問題，第一個，這個電業籌設許可是不是違法取得的？是還是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
何次長晉滄：這個部分我們已經有函請臺南市政府這邊去認定…… |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以是臺南市政府在包庇嗎？所以是臺南市政府在包庇嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
何次長晉滄：報告委員，這個是需要經過一個認定，就是它當初申請的程序…… |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
黃委員國昌：當然嘛！站在你旁邊的院長在去年說要依法處理，我也給院長時間依法處理了，處理到現在快一年了，一年處理不出來喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，剛剛次長有說過，在法院沒有判決之前，我們不會再做任何……但是要等法院的判決…… |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
黃委員國昌：等一下，要說明清楚，現在法院在繫屬的案子是刑事訴訟程序，是有關於有沒有犯罪行為的事情，現在我在跟你講的是行政處分的合法性，要不要撤銷行政處分，依照行政程序法的規定是誰的權責？不是行政機關的權責嗎？ |
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何次長晉滄：報告委員，因為這個案件其實已經…… |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
黃委員國昌：給你去調查一年了還調查不出來？ |
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何次長晉滄：目前來講，我們已經停止它申請的狀況，整個程序…… |
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黃委員國昌：對啊！你說停止它申請的狀況，現在是不是持續在發電？ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
何次長晉滄：是持續在發電，但是我們沒有支付它任何的電費。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
黃委員國昌：這個違法廠商的電業籌設許可違法取得，你還不撤銷，你不是包庇，什麼是包庇？我有說錯嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
卓院長榮泰：沒有支付任何費用。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
黃委員國昌：我有說錯嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，其實我們要依法行政。 |
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黃委員國昌：當然要依法行政啊！所以我才問你，這一個行政處分…… |
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何次長晉滄：所以它任何申請的資料，我們要進一步確認…… |
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黃委員國昌：等一下！這個行政處分是合法還是違法？還是你不知道？只有三個答案，這個行政處分合法、違法、我不知道，哪一個答案？請說明。全部都在講空話嘛！ |
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卓院長榮泰：是否會依照，繫屬法院當中的案件判決之後，我們會做進一步的處理。 |
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黃委員國昌：院長，我再跟你講一次，刑事訴訟在處理的是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
卓院長榮泰：刑事責任。 |
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黃委員國昌：在處理的是有沒有犯罪行為的問題，行政處分合不合法是行政機關的權責，這是行政程序法的ABC，我再問一次，這個行政處分合法、違法還是我不知道？一年了。 |
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卓院長榮泰：剛剛照次長的答復是我們已經暫停它現在所有的程序了，等到法院…… |
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黃委員國昌：對不起！我問A問題，你在回答B問題，這個行政處分合法、違法還是我不知道？ |
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卓院長榮泰：行政處分是否有瑕疵，現在正在部裡面…… |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
黃委員國昌：正在調查當中？調查一年了。 |
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卓院長榮泰：剛剛已經說了，它現在已經暫停了，如果刑事處分有出來的話，判決出來，我們就…… |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
黃委員國昌：現在你們跟全國的公司都一樣，行政處分即使有違法，主管機關還是沒有要撤銷，我能幫你拖就幫你拖，電繼續發啊！有這樣搞的喔？來！我直接給你看…… |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們沒有拖延的責任和義務。 |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
黃委員國昌：沒有拖延？從去年到現在還沒拖延喔？ |
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卓院長榮泰：是沒有對這一家廠商…… |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
黃委員國昌：從去年到今年還沒有拖延喔？ |
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卓院長榮泰：沒有對這一家廠商有需要拖延。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
黃委員國昌：這不是拖延，什麼是拖延？ |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
何次長晉滄：跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
黃委員國昌：還敢在這邊狡辯喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
何次長晉滄：其實這個相關的程序，我們現在有請臺南市政府來做認定。 |
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黃委員國昌：沒關係！你今天代表經濟部站在這裡，我就問你最直接的問題，這麼簡單的行政法概念，可以在這邊混了一年沒有答案。來看一下，避免農地破碎的小二甲禁令，你應該很清楚，對吧？ |
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卓院長榮泰：我們已經禁止開發。 |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
黃委員國昌：是，有三個例外，要符合這三個例外才可以發電業籌設許可，請問你到現在還不敢處理的力暘是符合哪一個例外的但書？請說明。我給你一年的時間了，我如果昨天問今天找你要答案，可能是我不夠厚道，我問你一年了，你今天如果還沒有答案，不要說我沒辦法接受，人民都沒辦法接受啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，因為這個案子是在108年向臺南市政府申請…… |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以是哪一個但書？不要在那邊拖時間嘛！ |
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何次長晉滄：所以整個申請的程序到底合不合法…… |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
黃委員國昌：你也不知道？ |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
何次長晉滄：我們在113年7月及9月都已經有函請臺南市政府來確認它的籌設許可。 |
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黃委員國昌：臺南市政府確認的結果是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
何次長晉滄：它目前還沒有回公文。 |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
黃委員國昌：它還沒有回？好，所以真相大白了，真相大白了嘛！你就勇敢講是黃偉哲在包庇、黃偉哲在拖延，我們中央政府也很無奈，問了臺南市政府問了一年到現在都還沒有答案，你就勇敢講嘛！怕什麼？我直接跟你講前例，我第一次在當立法委員的時候，我在追大創的案子，當時的經濟部部長沈榮津怎麼處理的？事證明確，違法的處分不僅撤銷，還禁止他們輸出入，行政處分都出來了，那個時候我從來沒聽沈榮津講過「委員，對不起，我要等到刑事訴訟程序出來以後才能夠處理」，該處理就要處理了，經濟部可不可以發一個函給臺南市政府詢問還要拖多久？這會困難嗎？可不可以發這個函給臺南市政府，副本給我？ |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
何次長晉滄：可以、可以。我們可以再請臺南市政府處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
黃委員國昌：拖一年喔！拖一年喔！大家都在看啦！是綠營權貴就可以包庇喔？包庇這麼久！看不下去啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們立刻發函，再跟委員回報。 |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
主席：謝謝黃國昌委員質詢。謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[100][1] |
接下來我們請黃珊珊委員發言，請王定宇委員準備。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
29 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-3-9 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-04-25 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1143901 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1143901_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第3會期第9次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
報告事項 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1143901_00001 |