| IVOD_ID |
16068 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16068 |
| 日期 |
2024-07-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-36-35 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第35次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
35 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第35次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-07-04T08:30:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-07-04T14:36:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
06:05:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fccdb159a08970f4755e5a7d9476abbdb34f242ceca9577839d8070d54b94b0e355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-07-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第35次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部、金融監督管理委員會、經濟部、數位發展部、內政部列席就「洗錢防制法規範下洗錢防制對象在新興通路之風險評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:45 - 14:36:00 |
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報告委員會出席委員9人以足法定人數請主席宣布開會好現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
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1793.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第34次全體委員會議議事錄顯示中華民國113年7月3日星期三上午9時至11時23分地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員陳文、俊宇等13人列席委員郭文、郭文等11人列席官員法務部政務次長黃士傑等人主席中召集委員嘉賓報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項並按審查委員郭國文等18人以據民法第200 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1794.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1797.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
好那因為在場人數不足3人齁那麼我們稍後等3人足之後我們再確認議事錄先來休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
3625.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
3641.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
中嘉賓回來喔 還沒去阿中嘉賓回來喔 不要跟王定宇一樣好不好委員會開會是你的本務 中嘉賓回來喔我們所有委員都在那邊排排隊 要質詢為了你一個人 半個小時耗掉外交國防也一樣 你是召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
3655.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
3680.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
所有的官員在那邊被你叫過來幹什麼啊浪費時間啊宗家兵等來啊神盾局長不要又再當第二次了啦他就不見了啊你不見直接宣布散會嘛不要把官員們扣在這個地方外交國防也一樣啊兩個召委直接散人散彈啊散彈雙俠啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
3685.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
3696.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
拜託宗嘉賓消失神隱30分鐘了官員們都在那邊哭耗30分鐘了外交國防現在也要幹什麼也要哭耗在那邊嗎關心別的委員會沒有問題但是你是召委不要忘了你的職份不要忘了你的職份把你的意識顧好不差你一個宗嘉賓一個人去內政啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
3714.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
3719.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
也不差你王定宇一個人去內政啦你明明講這麼缺人缺兩個人嗎啊召委的委員會自己委員會不顧擺爛落跑嗎還說沒有討論沒有民主討論在哪裡今天討論在哪裡沒有討論沒有民主啊人都不見怎麼討論鍾嘉賓、王定宇、鄧乃亞 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
3765.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
3765.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
4893.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
4919.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們不存在的主席還有我們在座的國參委員我們的中線委員還有我們敬愛的次長我們這些甘等甘坐的官員們我今天來示範一場什麼叫做無主席質詢無主席質詢我剛已經在外交國防委員會質詢完了現在我回到我本委員會來質詢無主席質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
4925.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
4930.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
鍾嘉斌,你回來了啦鍾嘉斌,你跑去哪裡啦今天你是司法法制委員會的召委主席你把官員都當什麼傻蛋還是當懶蛋無聊的人懶惰的人沒事幹的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
4952.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
4955.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
把他擱在這個地方你對得起這些官員嗎立法委員你可以到不同委員會去關心沒有問題可是不要在你當章委的時候當主席的時候嘛民進黨在底下那麼多的人啊缺你宗嘉斌一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
4979.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
4982.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們的神盾局長上次已經一次了今天更誇張開會及休息進來只喊一聲休息就跑了你直接開會就散會算了吧你開會喊散會就算了吧你民進黨底下這麼缺人缺你兩個人就不能站主席台民進黨戰力這麼弱 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
5009.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
5010.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
缺兩個人不能站主席台司法法制委員會的主席那是你的職份啦你回來好好的主持你的會議你讓你的同志去作秀嘛你為什麼不能夠好好主持會議沒有關係啦我剛剛已經完成我的有史以來第一次無主席質詢在外交國防委員會啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
5038.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
5054.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以我跟你講次長你也不用上台沒有關係因為主席不在所以你不用上台我只好來一個一人質詢啦我質詢稿準備好我也不能不講對不對但我不知道我們的宗家兵要神盾到什麼時候今天會還開不開得成不知道我今天就在這邊質詢啊我們今天喔有一個宗家兵非常不重視的洗錢防制法他們有洗錢防制法一點都不重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
5068.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
5077.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
他認為今天洗錢防制跟整個現在國內詐騙猖獗這個關聯性要解決他覺得不重要然後他不只覺得不重要他還嫌我們市長我們的所有的我們的法務部我們的經管會我們的速發部我們的內政部我們的通傳會他覺得你們打詐不利啊太閒啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
5096.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
5100.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
把你們叫到這邊來讓你們坐在這個地方罰坐啦洗錢防制法不重要嗎阿為什麼請問今天我們主席可以不見阿徒成文集團阿利用遊戲點數洗錢在2020年到2023年買了百億元的遊戲點數 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
5124.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
5153.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
整批賣給香港等境外公司來套現洗錢拿香港公司在來購買的點數化整為零在網路以超商小孩代收的方式賣給不知情的遊戲玩家事實上我國合法線上遊戲業者跟違法博弈網站每年上百億元的營收其中有不少被詐騙集團利用買點數的方式來洗錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
5154.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
5179.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
而詐騙案的被害人的錢遭騙走之後經過層層洗錢漂白所以才難以討回所以立法院法治局我們在洗錢防治法修正草案當中就有評估指出遊戲點數卡具有匿名性而且流通性加也有可移轉性很容易變成所謂的洗錢工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
5181.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
5204.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
建議將線上遊戲點數業者納入《洗錢防治法》草案第5條第3項第5款所規定的其他業務性或交易型態為洗錢犯罪利用之事業或從事人員來規範指定《洗錢防治法》所定的非金融事業來加以管理以強化《洗錢防治法》的成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
5205.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
5216.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
但是本次的洗錢防制法修法並沒有納入線上遊戲點數業者而是在詐欺犯罪危害防制條例中對網路連線遊戲及遊戲點數等業者科與防詐的義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
5223.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
5251.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以我今天來這裡本來是要好好問問法務部、數位部、金管會還有目前修法是不是有足以有效可以防止這個遊戲點數淪為洗錢的工具以及提出一些具體的辦法我知道次長一定有做很充足的準備但抱歉你沒辦法上台所以我也只能說能不能請你主席恭喜你終於回來一個小時後主席出現了 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
5251.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
5273.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
但是抱歉我也質詢完了所以我的第二名可以拿掉了謝謝大家謝謝好現在繼續開會請問對於上次會議議事錄有錯誤或遺漏沒有好沒有我們議事錄確定好現在介紹到場委員及應邀列席官員先介紹在場委員我們介紹羅志強委員胡宗憲委員黃國昌委員陳俊宇委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
5282.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
5296.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那麼接下來介紹應邀列席官員法務部常務次長黃謀信黃次長歡迎您那其他的未及介紹的列席代表請參與名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
5299.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
5312.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
本次議程邀請法務部、金融監督管理委員會、經濟部、數位發展部、內政部列席就《洗錢防制法規範下洗錢防制對象在新興通路之風險評估》進行專題報告．並備質詢。好,現在進行報告,發言時間遠上3分鐘,請法務部黃次長報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
5326.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
5355.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
主席各位委員各位縣議員大家好今天奉邀到各位委員會就本專題代表本部列席報告簡單的說明如下第一有關於受洗錢防制法規範的業別部分我們洗房法第五條明文的規定包括所謂的金融機構以及適用洗錢防制法關於金融機構規定以及指定之非金融事業及人員詳細的條文規定請參科院報告那另外第二部分本部有關於報告部分有提及 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
5355.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
5371.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我國容易被利用做洗錢的行業依照我們這個洗房辦在110年所提出來的國家洗錢之恐及之五擴風險評估報告裡面其中非常高風險弱點的包括虛擬資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
5374.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
5397.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
高風險弱點的包括第三方支付服務業以及線上遊戲業都是近幾年來司法實務上常常被運用在洗錢、炸機的業別那前兩者現在在我們這次洗錢防制法修法裡面已經加強的修法列管另外有關於遊戲事業的部分則是在我們的打炸專法裡面由我們速發部來進行管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
5397.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
5421.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那相關的這個第三部分有關於整個我們本部就這個新興洗錢業的策進作為的部分呢那有建議近幾年來新興洗錢的犯罪這個猖獗那本部積極持續督導臺灣高等檢查署對於包括虛擬資產、第三項支付、遊戲點數等高洗錢或詐欺風險的新興型態犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
5423.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
5427.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
邀請相關部會進行演商．擬定相關查緝策略及防制規劃作為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
5441.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
5464.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
並且我們也建立了扣押心理資產監管平臺來徹底剝奪有關於心理資產的不法所得那有關於第三方支付業者的部分呢我們要出發步他們現在已經建置了相關的查詢平臺讓執法機關可以快速的查詢有關心理帳號所對應的第三方支付業者那另外我們掉下去洗房處呢有關於這個申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
5465.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
5486.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
之後分析所得的第三方支付業者的相關的可疑資料也會經過分析之後分送給相關的金融機構以及相關的執法機關那第三部分有關於遊戲產業的部分呢遊戲業的部分呢那我們的打詐專法也就刻意的相關的業者相關義務那以上報告請各位委員指正謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
5488.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
5508.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好謝謝黃次長那麼其餘金管會、經濟部、數法部、內政部、機關報告請參閱書面那機關代表報告完畢相關書面報告內容請列入公報記錄好現在呢開始進行詢答本會委員詢答時間為8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員詢答時間為5分鐘並不再延長上午10時30分截止發言登記請登記第一位黃國昌委員發言請 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
5528.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
5554.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
來一馬有請法務部次長、金管會銀行局局長以及我們的國家通訊委員會好,請法務部黃次長、金管會銀行局莊局長以及國家通訊傳播委員會法律事務處的蔡處長請委好詐騙洗錢造成了無數人受害在這整個詐騙洗錢產業鏈裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
5557.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
5581.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
一個過去一直被忽略我們的金管會去年說要仰賴這個虛擬資產平台的工會這個是黃天牧嗎去年是不是這樣講的金管會要納管然後出台VASP指導原則結果搞了半天出了什麼事啊VASP籌備小組靈魂人物 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
5587.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
5589.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
自己是詐騙集團的首腦這就是我們的金管會啊要業者自律成立工會結果工會的靈魂人物正是詐欺集團的首腦這一路走來法務部認為金管會的政策是不是錯誤有沒有重新檢討的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
5616.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
5630.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
報告這是主管機關的執掌法務部尊重到現在還在尊重喔搞成這樣還尊重喔來看一下事情有多嚴重啊王牌交易所詐欺洗錢20幾億20幾億啊前一陣子終於起訴了 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
5638.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
5657.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我整份請書書看完啊我不可置信啊我為什麼不可置信今天要談虛擬貨幣要談洗錢來我先具體請教詐欺所得成立的公司是不是不罰所得這些不罰所得要不要列入沒收的範圍來請教市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
5660.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
5689.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
呃...犯罪...前置犯罪所得當然是這個詐欺所得他有可能會涉及到其他的相...相...這些在洗錢網絡裡面的公司負責人實際的行為人應不應該被訴追呃...各位報告那...這個案子把台北地檢署已經...他已經做部分的偵檢相關的案子...相關的案情如果涉及其他犯罪那本部相信台北地檢署會做後續的偵查會做後續的偵查齁麻煩齁次長回去一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
5690.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
5715.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
提醒臺北地檢署我看完了以後我非常的納悶地檢署的起訴書認定的犯罪事實來看清楚王牌交易所四個主嫌潘毅章、林耿宏、林若喬、王承環下面詐欺二十幾億層層的不法所得透過這些公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
5716.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
5742.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
洗錢洗到下面有一家叫移賺股份有限公司的董事長謝新英被起訴了不罰所得留到這裡了但我看起訴書很奇怪怎麼移賺股份有限公司就輕輕放掉在洗錢網絡裡欸行為呢要不要訴追不罰所得要不要沒收 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
5743.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
5772.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
是怎麼樣?偵辦到這家公司發現背後有綠色媒體集團當重要的股東一起參與其中輕輕放下是這樣嗎?請教市長呃 各位報告我剛剛已經說明清楚了那台北地檢署他就他的起訴的事實來講當然如同委員的PVP地上所載他只是起訴他現在目前認定的事實那至於有沒有其他的犯罪事實我們相信台北地檢署他應該也一定會繼續來追查 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
5774.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
5799.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我講話有意思一啊我邀請市長跟我們所有法務部的長官回去看這個起訴書他就在起訴犯罪事實裡啊問題是他在起訴犯罪事實裡在談到不法禁流的時候在追究刑事責任的時候碰到這家遺傳公司啊登記在三立集團大樓裡面的遺傳公司啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
5802.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
5806.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
談都不談欸談都不談為什麼這件事情可惡 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
5807.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
5833.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我跟市長講有很多人會受騙大家都在想說哇 這個王牌交易所他發行的虛擬貨幣在這個平台上面交易的虛擬貨幣是不是真的貨幣大家就會在網路上面去搜尋資訊嘛結果搜尋資訊以後發現哇 這個交易所好棒棒這個虛擬貨幣好棒棒這麼多新聞幫他吹捧幫他拉抬 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
5834.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
5863.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
非常的有前景結果搞了半天是什麼內容農場啊還是詐騙集團養的內容農場啊民生頭條Potato Media上面講什麼CSO全球最大Web3.0社群平台Potato MediaCSO垃圾幣拿來詐騙用的垃圾幣NFTC是Shopee社群平台代理的貨幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
5864.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
5882.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
NFTC也是垃圾幣拿來詐騙用的結果呢內容農場主嫌犯罪組織成員在外面成立民生頭條Potato Media化名記者撰寫虛擬貨幣的內容空洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
5886.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
5913.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
欺騙消費者騙一堆無辜的人上這個平台上去買他的虛擬貨幣如果是內容農場的一定要訴追嘛對不對各位報告從台北地檢署的新聞稿及起訴書我們可以看得出來相關委員所提到的相關的媒體記者他有用涉嫌散佈假訊息的共犯起訴了好你說相關的人都共犯起訴了我的問題是有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
5914.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
5928.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
有部份的所謂的假媒體有嗎?真的有嗎?部份被起訴了嘛那其他的人呢?放掉嗎?可以放掉嗎?來我們繼續啊再往下看這個就是我剛講的詐騙集團散播的假新聞嘛來看一下江健良李燕蘭一個是什麼?三立節目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
5943.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
5967.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
製作人而且他就是用這個三立的節目people願望合夥人把這個垃圾幣透過詐騙平台在推廣右手邊這個李彥南他也是一模一樣幹一模一樣的事就在我剛講的那個洗錢犯罪網絡裡面結果還不只是這樣來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
5969.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
5997.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
這個三立的政論節目啊竟然跟詐騙集團所成立的假新聞平台強強聯手抽黃金啊這是他們的新聞啊 來看一下完成三步驟投票抽黃金三立與Potato Media強強聯手我老天啊Potato Media就是我剛講的啊那個詐騙集團的內容農場啊三立跟Potato Media強強聯手 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
5998.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
6022.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
可以這樣幹喔來請問一下NCC新聞台喔新聞台喔搞到陳為邦詐騙集團跟他們強強聯手出假新聞騙一堆人上車NCC要不要追究責任知不知道這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
6023.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
6038.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
NCC知不知道向委員報告 這個案件我們現在才了解那當然如果有涉及到說違反強制規定來我就具體的看嘛我們的電視新聞台跟Potato Media這個被檢察官認證拿來詐騙洗錢的平台還強強聯手抽黃金 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
6051.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
6077.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
剛法務部說囉他們不是放水不辦喔還沒辦到嘛我們拭目以待看檢察官是不是遇到綠色媒體集團就變得軟趴趴不敢辦我們拭目以待我今天相信次長因為次長說有的先一波solo還有下一波嘛我們拭目以待看下一波但NCC這件事情知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
6079.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
6107.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
現在知道現在知道要不要徹查新聞台可以這樣幹喔當然有進一步檢察官這樣還不夠明確喔這樣還不夠明確喔我們依程序來進行了解調查要不要立案調查需不需要我們就依程序來進行調查依什麼程序講清楚不要講官話啦這樣還不嚴重喔NCC應該展現什麼態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
6108.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
6131.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
全民在打詐痛恨詐騙集團洗錢集團竟然由我們的電視新聞台涉入其中非同小可徹查到底這才是NCC應該有的態度嘛是因為人家背後有黨政高層撐腰NCC開刀三立腰桿子都挺不直喔要不要徹查 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
6133.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
6156.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我們會依法來進行處理依法處理今天才知道反應這麼慢喔來再看一下詐騙集團在三立開節目推廣垃圾幣出品的公司出品人監製有兩個現在被起訴了其他的還沒有追究責任喔次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
6157.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
6186.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
有兩個被起訴了喔其他還沒有追究責任喔這個出品的硬業科技傳媒股份有限公司背後也有問題喔然後還有三立新聞幫詐騙的垃圾幣在散播假訊息我們過去一段時間一直在講網際網絡散播假訊息很嚴重嘛對吧受害的人很多嘛那電視新聞散播假訊息幫詐騙集團拉抬作教嚴不嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
6188.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
6216.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
請教次長關於報告如果他涉及我們刑法的規定當法部來處理那如果涉及相關主管部會相關的主管法規必須要主管機關他來依照他除了刑法以外還有洗錢防制法嘛如果有個人洗錢防制法當然我們檢察局還會依照徹查到底喔徹查到底喔來請NCC我們現在都在講說透過網際網絡搞詐騙一堆人受害很可惡很嚴重阿透過電視新聞直接散播嚴不嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
6218.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
6238.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
嚴不嚴重 要不要處理不是說我涉及啦檢察官起訴事實就白紙黑字寫在那邊了啦NCC這樣軟趴趴難怪人家對NCC不信任嘛遇到執政黨遇到執政黨撐腰的媒體集團軟趴趴整個會跪下去了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
6247.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
6254.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
請回去帶給所有七位NCC委員知道當一天和尚撞一天鐘徹查到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
6259.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
6283.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
好 謝謝黃委員 謝謝黃次長好 那接下來請羅委員志強發言羅志強 羅志強委員不在不過因為剛剛他似乎在我們重新開會之前他有在場 那麼麻煩請國民黨團助理可以協助通知他只要一在場 我們再來適當的安排好 那接下來俊宇 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
6301.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
6304.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
好接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
6312.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
6336.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
主席、代黨委員、先進、列席政府局長、市長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體、記者、女士、先生有請法務部的黃次長然後請調查局吳處長、銀行局莊局長、經濟部的商發署陳副署長、數位發展部的產業署的林副署長好,請再協助好,請我們費詢的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
6338.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
6368.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
好 次長我今天題目很清楚網路平台要納入洗房的申報範圍條碼超商繳費要主付款防詐騙來 我們來看一下就是新興科技之下其實我們民眾很多都是透過大平台來進行購買這是最典型的我先請教一下如果是銀樓直接賣給消費者那它是一個我們洗房上我們的銀樓要不要做KYC要嗎要但是如果銀樓在網路平台上 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
6369.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
6371.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
請問網路平台是否需要向法務部調查局申報? |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
6390.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
6400.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
目前如果是直接向銀樓業購買的話當然是要向沒有沒有沒有網路平台跟銀樓業買斷喔在網路上喔消費者跟網路平台買了誰跟誰申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
6405.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
6428.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
目前沒有規範對不對請回沒有法規往下看目前盤點我國洗錢防治法的相關辦法剛剛為什麼問法務部調查局因為他是洗房法下這些申報的一個受理機關如果以職業別來講有以下6個職業包括律師、會計師如果以業別指定的辦法包括金融機構以及最近 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
6428.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
6455.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
很注意的虛擬通貨平台及交易的第三方支付還有融資性租賃那範本類的呢就是這些機構他必須用標準的範本來進行這樣的一個交易次長沒錯吧?沒錯好那我們看一下銀樓業者防制洗房以及打擊知恐的辦法第7條他說交易的情況之下呢要留存客戶資料那如果又顯不相當的時候呢他要進行申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
6456.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
6478.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
請問Costco或PG Home它是不是營樓業Costco會申報我答他是不是營樓業他如果是販售這個有關這個高價值的那個珠寶之類的話他也會一時前方Costco不是營樓業但是Costco會申報那PG Home呢PG Home的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
6481.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
6505.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
不知道?好沒關係來次長你又發現了齁如果一個不同的銀樓業者好幾家不同的銀樓業者在同一個電商平台銷售誰才知道客戶資料?誰要負責申報?如果ABC三個銀樓業者在Costco銷售他們的珠寶誰要申報?Costco嘛剛剛有講了嘛是不是?確定嗎?那如果他做PC Home咧?誰要申報?好你們再去想一下齁往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
6506.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
6528.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
來NVIDIA最近火紅根據第三方支付的防制洗錢及打擊滋恐罵有第7條一樣要確認客戶身份而且只要超過新台幣5萬元或者信用卡超過20萬元那麼他就要有疑似洗錢或滋恐的時候三支業者要進行那請問你們看NVIDIA這個多少錢139萬這是H100的 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
6533.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
6553.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
超過20萬以上,他透過三支來支付,那請問誰要申報?吊銷局知道嗎?第三方支付的部分業者必須要申報,只要那個金額超過現金5萬塊以上,然後信用卡交易超過20萬以上都必須要申報?就是如果他透過三支 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
6555.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
6569.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
他透過三資來支付可是三資怎麼知道他買什麼東西我們往下看什麼是H100H100是高科技啊美國禁止輸入大陸啊網路平台要賣啊要不要KYC誰對他做KYC是平台對他做KYC還是三資對他做KYC有沒有法律規範怎麼稽查他是不是透過郵遞或會計接到受制裁的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
6582.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
6606.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
市長有沒有發現我們的洗房法上是不是有規範需要在周延的地方有沒有感覺我們當然洗房法規範特定的業別要做相關的洗房業務啦但是透過平台的部分倒是委員關心的他作為一個平台在轉介的話這部分的申報主體的話就會開始移動嗎往下看就是我要問的 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
6609.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
6631.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
如果說今天是個洗錢業者透過3個人頭到網路平台每一個他都買了將近50萬的商品那這樣有沒有涉及洗錢誰會知道來往下看所以說不同消費者以同一個IP位置他用不同的名稱但是同一個IP在網路平台上連續購買接近50萬的商品社會需要向法務部調查局申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
6635.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
6655.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
就要看這個販售這個商品的是哪一個業別而且他在通路上啊在平台上啊單比50萬看這個平台是哪一個業別所駕那個建構如果他是他自己的品牌比如Costco他自己駕的OK如果是綜合電商呢綜合電商的話目前他還是以他的賣方賣方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
6658.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
6675.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
他用消費者不同的消費者現在是不同的消費者剛剛講的是好幾家營樓現在不同的消費者他要洗錢他用不同的名稱用同一個IP在網路上的平台去買市長知道哪裡需要再周延了吧清楚你簡單回應一下來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
6677.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
6694.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
跟委員報告這的確如同我剛剛所說的我們的洗錢防制法只就業別做一個特別的申報的義務跟規範那至於它是否有些脫法行為不同的消費者或透過平台這部分我們可能未來在相關的規範要加強來速發部速發部有第三方支付的機構的能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
6695.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
6696.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
網路平臺可不可以納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
6709.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
6734.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
蘇巴部 你們要讓他管嗎 網路平台網路平台如果透過第三方支付進行金流的支付的話第三方支付會知道異常交易第三方支付知道 但是平台知不知道第三方支付怎麼會知道呢 剛剛說了啊不同的營樓業者或者說同一個洗錢飯透過不同名稱 他怎麼知道對於第三方支付來講 他不同的名稱啊只有平台有可能勾結出來 次長是不是這樣次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
6737.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
6757.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
所以我是說你們要慎重的考慮未來平台業者是不是要審慎的找到一個主管機關加以納入 可以嗎這個平台業者部分要看他是業別的主管機關啦平台就跟你講了 業別 平台現在主管 電商平台誰管對嘛 速發部嘛 那請告訴速發部嘛 來往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
6758.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
6777.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
現在另外一種透過繳費條碼到便利超商林桂繳納的詐騙手法我們都知道如果詐騙犯透過APP他傳給受害者三個繳費條碼叫他去繳費他到林桂繳費是繳現金超商收的是現金但是超商收的這三個條碼一個代表是誰一個代表是貨品 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
6778.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
6798.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
一個代表的是金額一個代表的是收付者收這個款的人他透過銷帳檔這可能是虛擬平台可能是三資那麼他們就進行電付貸款電付款給詐騙者然後呢過了7到10天看便利超商跟三資或虛擬平台的契約關係他們再把貨款呢移過去知道這個時間差了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
6801.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
6829.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
詐騙犯可能會先收到平台或三資的電款但是呢受害者繳的現金他會大概延遲個7到10天看便利超商業者跟這個平台的契約關係他來支付市長有沒有看到一個一個寂寂的往下看就是債圖金流啊如果說我們再往前看如果說今天受害者去報案了一天內就報案了錢還在哪裡錢還在超商手上嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
6831.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
6855.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
但是如果平台或三資先墊付給詐騙犯了以後這筆錢你們去阻卻了便利超商不要付給平台或三資誰會受損害市長誰會受損害是平台或三資嘛 對不對所以兩個要件如果警方來得及即時在便利超商把這個現金不要變成了支付給平台那麼消費者的錢就可以追回嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
6856.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
6881.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那誰要去負這個損失平台跟三資嘛那這樣子平台跟三資會不會比較認真來做KYC了解了齁那以後你們怎麼做告訴我你打算怎麼做跟委員報告這個外界有在倡議啦是不是說有延緩說延緩這已經不用延緩了本來他們企業就是7到10天現在是你們有沒有能力發掘之後阻止超商轉帳對 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
6883.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
6905.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
就是延緩跟圈存的問題對就是圈存的問題他已經有再途期限7天了請你們想想幾大超商業者跟這些平台和三資的契約關係只要是超過一天以上的你們都來得及啊那這樣的方式下三資跟平台他才會擔心收不到錢他會認真的做KYC是不是這樣子那你們要去強化宣傳往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
6906.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
6930.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
好了現在基層檢察官胡不堪言因為根據這個律師的打擊之恐辦法第18條還有銀樓第13條他們都要有工會對不對法務部可以去工會查核嗎我們事實上限地查核我們現在每年都在進行好那請問三支有沒有查核誰去查核訴發部你們怎麼查核有工會可以查核嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
6934.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
6961.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
主要在限地跟非限地都有查核你們有沒有查核報告人家目前律師跟營樓都是公會查核啊三支你們是一家一家查核是不是好 社長那你知道問題出哪裡了以這樣的一個管制能量你們檢察官他們訴發部是一家一家的去查核 人家是公會查核來往下看現在我的要求 時間的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
6963.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
6969.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
請次長研議將網路平台納入洗錢防制及打擊自恐規範的方案並一個月提出運費報告．可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
6971.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
6995.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
因為這涉及到跨部會啦那是不是我們再多點時間兩個月兩個月好可以那請經濟部來經濟部代表請儘速協調便利超商業者跟內政部和速發部串接去代收款的查詢機制你懂我的意思嗎如果警方知道了他要去坑怎麼樣跟超商知道受害者的金錢是不是還在超商手上嘛那第一時間可以主詐可以嗎我們來協調超商 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
6999.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
7012.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
好那最後各主管機關包括銀行局、法務部、調查局應該明確的各打擊知恐辦法內要求工會進行自律及協助管理減輕基層公務員尤其我們檢察官的負擔請問銀行局可以嗎如果你們有的話報告委員我們會遵照辦理好謝謝那速發部呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
7022.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
7022.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
法務部．經濟部． |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
7051.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
7062.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
7079.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
7092.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
對,然後有一種的話就像某某某某某他的發表就是對 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
7109.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
7133.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
因為它有免費使用,所以對於新興通路的使用方法來說,是很重要的對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
7177.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
7187.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
7200.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
7204.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
新興通路新興通路新興通路 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
7229.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
7251.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
新興通路新興通路 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
7254.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
7255.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
主席響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
7265.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
7292.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
對,對,對,對,對 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
7294.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
7294.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
7323.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
7323.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
本集完 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
7332.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
7334.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
7365.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
7391.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
議員會議員會議員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
7403.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
7404.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
本會議的主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
7417.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
7430.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
現在的交易是很難理解,因為買的商品就是能知道上面買的內容並不清楚,所以在辦公室裡沒有電話,因為商品太多 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
7446.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
7449.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
本會議的主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
7471.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
7472.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
新興通路新興通路 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
7684.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
7699.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
好 我們這邊宣告齁 我們休息到下午兩點半後繼續開會 現在繼續休息那我們兩點半再開啊 我知道 兩點半我們再開啊 他們兩點協商怎麼樣我們再演嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
21543.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
21548.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
因為我們已經等了半個小時了那三黨的代表都沒有過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
21550.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
21578.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
而且我們現在已經2點30分那因為我們2點30分呢司法法制委員會預定要開會所以本日的黨團協商因為三黨都沒有到場所以無法達成共識所以本案後續會依據立法院職權刑事法第12章的規定我們已請院長召開 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
21581.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
21606.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
黨團協商會議在進行協商在這邊跟各位表達謝意謝謝各位 散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
21866.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
21888.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
跟委員報告因為剛剛多數委員都困住了我也上不來那因為顯然多數委員都無法到本委會進行今天的議事所以今天的會議到此那麼委員莊瑞雄、羅志強所提書面質詢均列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關會議以書面答覆那麼本日會議進行到此現在散會 |