| IVOD_ID |
160636 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160636 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-24T10:43:12+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-24T11:04:25+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:21:13 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5e1f7c3e1748c6e5b4072938008046589742596ee20a55b87970360821fa2dae1c4c51fc1a7b281b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林淑芬 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:43:12 - 11:04:25 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、農業部次長、經濟部次長、外交部次長、行政院經貿談判辦公室副總談判代表、行政院食品安全辦公室主任針對「美豬、美牛進口零關稅且如何保障國人食品安全及農民權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【4月23日及24日二天一次會】） |
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好 謝謝主席是不是請我們這個部長和署長好 |
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因為我們署長大家頗為為以重任你和那個台大醫院明顯這個院長都稱他是不可多得的三刀流人才啊腎臟科醫師讀藥品的專業還有具有法律措施的學位的確是三刀流 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.762 |
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67.051 |
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那署長就任的時候也一直在強調說這個強化邊境的查驗然後呢我們其實有幾點其實真的是想要討論一下就是說署長以前也接受過政府的委託報告那有一篇叫寒川的廢水排放後的食品安全影響研析還有風險溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.072 |
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87.53 |
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這幾年的署長在風險溝通上包括剛才的這個答詢上顯然看起來是很專業的但是呢再怎麼專業我是在這裡希望因為看到你的報告以後有幾個這個態度上的問題特別要跟署長就教我是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.097 |
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116.943 |
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我是希望這件事情可以溝通因為啊你主持的這一個報告的這個我在報告寫的內容是講說啊以食品添加物為例當消費者在包裝上看到一連串不熟悉的化學成分的時候往往會自動聯想到這些成分可能對健康有害然後這種擔憂往往源自於知識的缺乏而非基於科學的風險評估然後 |
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118.983 |
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142.341 |
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你後面在這裡前面你控訴了說如果擔心太過擔心看到一連串這個標示不明的化學成分會恐懼這個是來自於知識的缺乏可是你的單數又說只要消費者不食用過量只要身體的代謝功能正常這不會對身體健康過程威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
143.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
172.197 |
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前面說人民可能知識不足後面說科學的風險評估的變相還很多那我要提醒你是希望這一套不要用在立法院因為這件事情知識體大你在控訴人民知識缺乏的時候不要忘了你所加的但書必須是身體代謝功能正常而我要提醒你一件事情台灣人的代謝症候群40歲以上有將近四成 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
173.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
187.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
都罹患三高然後呢20到64歲我想都是衛福部的數據每四人就一人罹患20到6464以上更高啦每四人就一人罹患代謝症候群 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
188.813 |
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217.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
而且三高的自支率民眾對自己罹患三高有沒有自我的感知20歲以上的高血壓自支率是68血糖自支率是66血脂的自支率是23其實三高人數在2023年你們也發表有47%將近五成的人不知道自己有代謝症候群而且都不知道自己有三高 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
218.156 |
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218.457 |
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所以在這種狀況裡面你在 |
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223.002 |
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241.049 |
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對人民這個說知識缺乏的時候其實你要知道人民並不是知識缺乏其實相反的人民自己知道我可能有三高所以我對於太多的添加物我們是有擔心的OK那我要跟他溝通的是這個署長我要溝通的是這個態度你的報告的態度其實我不太能接受你的說法那我要就叫部長和署長就是說一直以來食藥署的問題在哪裡啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
252.313 |
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276.525 |
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食藥署部長其實包裝了一個形象上非常專業的確也很專業 我不好意思說是包裝是真的也很專業但食安專家 腎臟科 毒物科的專家 法律的碩士但是要真的要把它做好並不是一件很容易的事情而且要明食相符在這種狀況 台灣食品安全上所面臨的挑戰很多署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
282.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
309.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
如果整個衛福部食藥署你上任的時候你的觀察你覺得台灣面臨的這個食安的挑戰有哪些呢好 謝謝這是不是請署長好 那署長你來回答好了謝謝委員的提問我首先針對剛剛委員提到的寒川水廢水排水的這個計畫裡面做一點點的回應那上面寫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
335.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
的確像是學者當老師在教同學的時候覺得我們需要給他更多的期待把我們知道的東西從科學的依據這是政府的委外報告對政府不能用這種字眼來教訓人民說你無知所以這邊我們非常非常虛心的接受委員這樣的指導我們在態度上面會有很大的轉變學者跟當官員不一樣那是你學者時候寫的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
337.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
謝謝委員給我一點點空間你覺得台灣的食安問題你自己從接任到現在面臨的挑戰有哪些食品安全的議題裡面我稍微說明一下最大的議題是任何一個食品安全議題一定要先標定現在要問什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
357.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
380.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以在標定一個特定議題的過程中我們就是會食品安全的風險分析會導入你知道過去的食品安全的議題都是接避者揭發的幾乎都是接避者所以我上一次質詢問你食品也是藥品也是所以是接避者主動去揭發然後才產生問題然後你們才去做風險評估才去做風險控管 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
382.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
384.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
過去是這樣子 但我認為我認為江志剛署長有能力不應該只是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
390.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
415.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
謝謝委員這邊的提點因為食安的管制其實在食安五環到現在五環2.0它是全面性的建構接避者是其中一但事實上我們的團隊行政團隊主動去查查中央地方的合作的檢驗其實跟整個產業鏈所謂的公司協力自主規制我們希望能夠跟所有的業者做很好的鏈接 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
417.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
433.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
更重要的事情是業者之間的工協會他們發揮了很重要的功能達到了我們努力的地方你在新聞稿上面有講了你甚至在新聞稿上面也有講說像班克列酸 諾羅病毒 仙人掌桿菌等生物性危害這種生物性危害蘇丹虹 農藥殘留等化學性危害你們都要進行控管但是我要告訴你說這種議題歷史已經翻頁了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
440.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
445.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們不要總是一直停留在過去政府要深刻的反省主動去發現問題而且解決我們當初的食安五環我們登錄制度都認為說能夠達到預警的效果然後可以主動發現問題然後政府就可以達到風險控管事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
457.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
477.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
都沒有運作出來而且都是接避者然後事情發生以後才發現整個制度有問題那食藥署的過去都是頭痛一頭腳痛一腳台灣的食品安全如果是這樣子的話這樣的管理方式的話會不斷的重演那我們現在在這裡就是說我在這裡要問署長你有沒有吃零食的習慣 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
478.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
496.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
署長有很少啦 我這個健康取向這個齁 過年期間人家送我們很多家家戶戶大概是人手一包有沒有吃過這種零食 核桃 核桃大家都有吃過喔 簡體制的包裝 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
498.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
514.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
但是也有合格輸入有這個代理商的這一包兩三百元這一包一百元我們去蝦皮上網購了然後呢伴手禮在夜市在網路隨手買得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
515.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
535.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那我為什麼要講這個事情因為在2月3號我們辦公室發了公文給你們食藥署要求去查明大量的網路這個販售未辦理輸入產品的資訊申報未辦理查驗的新疆紙皮烤核桃除了嚴重造成國人健康風險而且已經違反了食安法請貴屬詳查要求他下架而且我們去文來講說30天內 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
543.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
567.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
把你開罰的狀況來告訴我們回報一下結果你們的公文回復是這樣子啦你們去查買了六件的確就有一件發現添加不許可的這個食品添加物然後呢最後你們又講說這是電商平台所以你們叫地方政府自己去依法查查好像這件事情你就沒了好像就沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
570.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
582.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們在講是因為立委辦公室出門叫你查立委舉一個舉一件產品就馬上通通都是然後呢 到底有沒有下架有沒有開罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
584.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
607.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這邊跟委員做進一步報告新疆紙皮烤核桃炒本味當初這個也非常感謝委員給我們指導跟給我們機會能夠快速的了解了解之後我們在我們檢舉的時候你還沒上任但你回文是一個多月以後3月14號才公文回覆我們所以照理說也應該開罰了有沒有開罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
609.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
631.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
有的 我們後續呢開罰誰我們因為查查的過程當中呢標示的結果五件不符合規定所以我們因此有兩件不是標示不符合規定喔未查驗沒有代理商在這種狀況裡面他是違反很多法律不是只有標示喔還不只是標示喔同時呢我們就積極的就裁處了裁處誰啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
637.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
645.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個採取的是進口的部分我們又採取了六萬塊錢那衛生在網路電商上你們到底是罰誰跟委員報告現在網路電商的部分我們面對都現在用你們六件是去實體店鋪買的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
653.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
661.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
呃我們是用網路平台架構的對那你網路平台架構我問你說你處罰誰啊你處分的對象是誰為什麼一直都講不出來這個部分呢對於電商的部分我們只能說告訴他有違規的所以沒有處分電商 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
669.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
692.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
然後也沒有處分廠商廠商有對廠商電商有提供廠商的資料給你採取嗎對所以我們在這個部分就採取了部分我現在在問你平台下架電商的部分現在網路上是不是還可以買到為辦理輸入產品資訊申報查驗的新疆紙皮烤核桃 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
693.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
712.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
還是不是可以繼續買這個報告委員我們這個持續跟這個平台只要有違規的關鍵字的部分都請他在二四小時能下架這個我們前幾天才買的蝦皮繼續在賣而且大量你點進去大家使用蝦皮現在馬上新疆紙皮烤核桃馬上全部都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
713.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
734.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
都沒有查驗登記沒有台灣未符合台灣相關法令你們買六件就有一件是含了很恐怖的不允許添加的有許可添加的也搞不好有的超標為了今天的質詢我還打開吃了一下吃了以後覺得很噁心但是我還是吃了喝了三杯水但是我要講說我不是要講這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
736.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
757.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
主角於邊境今天邊境淪陷了長驅直入沒有主角於邊境這一件事而且電商這種中國違法販賣的食品整個網路上通通都是然後邊境 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
758.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
772.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
喔 不要忘了這些東西還賣到嚇嚇叫 你看這個已售出 來兩萬包 已售出兩萬包 已售出幾百包 已售出左下角3.8萬包台灣人 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
775.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
788.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
大家瘋狂的買啊在電商上瘋狂的買江志剛署長掌管的食藥署你說有檢舉你就叫他下架沒檢舉的就不下架了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
792.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
810.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
沒有檢舉我們隨時都用人工智慧的關鍵字在爬蟲所以現在我們爬到你們有人工智慧在爬書然後有下架還會這樣子這是我們前兩天才打開的網頁來你再去看叫大家現場蝦皮再打開保證裡面還一堆我們隨時積極的我們會隨時關鍵字會沒有勾起好沒關係那你這樣子的話一個月處分幾件 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
818.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
845.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
他這裡你處分多少你說你們關鍵字然後再管理所以特別我們最近的財閥有點兇所以財閥兇的情形之下來啦多兇啊你都告訴我們到底是多兇賣到下下叫的中國產品多少有毒物質台灣人已經吃下肚而台灣的三高代謝症候群的人口數有多高對台灣人的健康風險有多嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
846.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
874.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個有符合食品衛生法裡面第30條的規定嗎有報官查驗嗎有經過邊境的這個把關嗎已經長驅直入了長驅直入了而且不是只有線上欸欸這個實體店家都有滿山滿谷 滿坑滿谷都是中國食品而且小孩子最愛的我們還買了剛才那是大人最愛的現在是小孩最愛的這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
879.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
905.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
太多了 我也不曉得要拿多出來全部都是小孩的 全部都是小孩的小孩的 電商就買得到的 滿坑滿谷給小孩吃的零食中國來的 沒有檢驗 沒有查驗沒有進口商 沒有受台灣法律安全規範的而且沒有政府在管理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
906.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
916.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
從透過網購、郵購甚至在夜市的實體店面長驅直入台灣沒有邊境把關了沒有邊境把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
918.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
943.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
所以署長為什麼要講這件事情是因為不要打高空不要唱高調這個事情你把這件事情管好就功德無量真的食品安全的風險管控在哪裡在生活當中而這個在夜市實體店面就在賣不用到網路所以到底是不知道還是不想做 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
944.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
962.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
還是你們跟你們無關我不好意思說這是裝睡的人叫不醒因為過去的食藥署的確都是裝睡的人叫不醒啦那因為江署長三刀流的不可多得的人才我就相信你不是叫不醒的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
964.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
972.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以署長你有沒有去逛過夜市 你有後市場抽驗 後市場檢查過嗎食藥署有預算進行輿情監測有食安網路大數據剖析應用與風險管控及處理應變計畫然後有這個你們講的導入網路爬蟲及風險智能監控的研發計畫還有食品大數據的智能監控及風險偵測預警研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
990.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
996.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
千萬百萬然後這種東西你告訴我說你們通通沒有在管然後有這些預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
998.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1025.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
然後呢其實去年有人就跟地方的衛生局檢舉在夜市裡面夜市裡面太多太多中國違反違法的零食商品在地方政府都沒有反應上來你們都無知嗎所以在這種狀況裡面我是要講電商就算了我們大家上網就知道你知道實體店面離我們距離最近的在哪裡你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1026.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1034.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
你知道嗎 立法院最近的實體店面也在販賣這一種違法的中國食品最近的在哪裡 你知道嗎這個要委員提示你不知道齁 在樓下立法院的福利社前面都有在賣 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1045.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1068.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
然後呢店家還說JP很新鮮製造日期2025年你問他說怎麼進口這種非法的中國食品他說飛機、海運、小三通都很方便更不用說到台灣以後夜市市場或是大家都很好賣因為台灣人很喜歡吃很香的核桃所以我們有邊境嗎邊境有把關嗎有阻絕於境外嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1073.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1086.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
已經長驅直入 而且變像話所以在這裡隨便都數萬包在賣然後在這種 你剛剛驗出來你們自己驗出來 甜味濟糖精環擠雞帶黃溪胺酸鈉 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1090.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1119.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
一規定都要退運一規定都要銷毀你開了一張罰單你還讓他繼續賣然後你是覺得長輩的肝汗腎代謝功能都可以全台灣的都沒有代謝症候群了嗎這個就是為什麼我們要我們的肝汗腎來承受政府對食品安全邊境把關不利的這一種風險呢更不要講喔這不是單一事件當 去年我記得林次長有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1120.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1132.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
辣平糖啦 魔芋爽啦在你們禁止這個以前我都還記得我的小孩也拿一個紅紅汽汽的魔芋爽回來吃我一看就說這很恐怖就他說很好吃所以這些未經中國 中國來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1140.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1158.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
未經查驗的 沒有核准輸入的食品都是冰山一角早就充斥在全台灣的民眾的生活當中所以歷史翻了這麼多頁 新的課題永遠在這裡政府 政府要承擔起這個責任啊 署長署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1161.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1177.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
三刀流人才 應該不是立委跟你講這麼想的對啦這個食藥署除了你以外 其他人都是舊的從馬英九時代做到蔡英文時代再做到賴清德時代食藥署很多人都是三朝四朝五朝元老了啦他們喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1180.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1188.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我不好意思說太難聽啦你署長沒有上警發條下面的人絕對不會上警發條然後國人的健康風險永遠暴露在高風險裡面不是一個署長很厲害有那麼多改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1199.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1216.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我現在提醒你是務實一點讓人民的生活真的從小的到老的從生活的所有每一項讓我們的風險降低一點少一點這個就是最務實的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1218.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1229.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
謝謝委員 委員特別提到風險能夠降低那我們一定會基於這個 希望能夠趨近移臨 臨風險很困難你剛才下面的人給你唸的稿子 你們什麼爬蟲啦然後關鍵字啦 那些都沒在做也沒用啦他跟你虛偽 跟你說 你拿來這裡回答立委馬上要打槍啊 馬上上網 馬上蝦皮 馬上去點 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1245.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1265.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
幾萬包 幾萬包 還在 還在你們都沒有一個霹靂的手段可以阻絕嗎完全都一籌莫展嗎對不對不要再講那種官方 官槍官吊 官方的標準回答不要讓你下面的人蒙蔽了你啊我簡單的就是這麼說好 繼續喔 我要繼續看喔我們繼續追喔謝謝委員 謝謝林淑芬委員 |