| IVOD_ID |
160546 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160546 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-23T11:11:10+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-23T11:23:12+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:02 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/27ac2f54fdf75cc0ee4402de50a9320165a835c60a672e28ca7a32b531de3e80d2a91ba8bd4818235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
徐欣瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:11:10 - 11:23:12 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「社會秩序維護法第六十四條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「社會秩序維護法第六十四條條文修正草案」案。
三、審查委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「社會秩序維護法第六十四條條文修正草案」案。
四、審查委員林思銘等22人擬具「社會秩序維護法第六十四條條文修正草案」案。
五、審查委員魯明哲等17人擬具「社會秩序維護法第八十九條條文修正草案」案。
六、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「社會秩序維護法第六十四條及第七十二條條文修正草案」案。
七、審查委員邱若華等19人擬具「社會秩序維護法第六十四條條文修正草案」案。
八、審查委員邱若華等19人擬具「社會秩序維護法第七十二條條文修正草案」案。
九、審查委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「社會秩序維護法第九條條文修正草案」案。
十、審查委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「社會秩序維護法第八十九條條文修正草案」案。
十一、審查委員魯明哲等18人擬具「社會秩序維護法第八十九條條文修正草案」案。
【詢答及處理】
【4月23日及24日兩天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席本席請劉部長還有張署長警政署張署長劉部長張署長有請徐委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
9.851 |
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部長還有署長首先本席想請教一個問題這個禮拜六426凱道有活動兩位知道嗎知道那我們現在得到消息就是會有人反串這個自備五星旗或共黨旗混入人群那可能會引起一些衝突請問這個部分部長是不是會 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
36.61 |
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要求警政署好好的來取締這個我們對於這個狀況各種種我們都會掌握來做處理那如果本席在這裡可以明確的先告知我們絕對沒有只要拿五星旗或共黨旗的絕對不是這次我們真正邀請的對象如果警方看到五星旗共黨旗 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.03 |
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84.185 |
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這個我不知道長怎麼樣那你們會不會取締?會不會協助?會這個4月26日那個是申請合法的一個集會我們一定會維護這個集會過程當中的和平順利那如果牽涉到其他會計做干擾干涉不相關的我們會配合主辦單位來做排除好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
86.767 |
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92.655 |
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接著本席要就我們今天這個社會秩序維護法來請教署長那您先回座我接下來請教部長部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
103.329 |
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130.868 |
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這個社會秩序維護法是在內政部但是好像這次修法新增的有些部分好像跟文化部體育部但是體育部還沒成立還有跟可能行政院消保處都很有關環境部對對對還有衛福部衛福部有關所以本席在這裡首先先就這次修法有人提這個醫療票券的部分那我看到衛福部的回應是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
131.809 |
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156.784 |
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等於是可以免就是免列意思就是說這個所謂的醫療票券我們也許有一些長者或是有些民眾他是因為工作忙碌或是長者不便請人代為不管掛號或是排隊那這個部分請人代為掛號排隊所以提供一些勞務費我想這個部長您是否認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
158.085 |
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178.944 |
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我想他的定義啦還是由目的事業主管機關來講會比較因為掛號涉及到衛福部的整個醫事的系統衛福部已經說如果所謂的醫療票卷他們的意見我看到他們的報告但是這個還沒有做最後的確認因為委員的說法不是您啦委員有的人覺得是有人覺得不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
179.244 |
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202.979 |
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所以這個還要討論就是一般是戴掛號是為了解決譬如說行動不方便的老者長者那另外一方面有的人說在網路上面就有的人已經包山包海要包掛號你要從台大醫院到小診所都有那就表示說他有沒有涉及惡意或者是哄抬或者是要用這個高的這個報酬的方式來幫忙處理這件事譬如說我們的掛號費只要100單單給你收1000 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
212.626 |
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那這樣對不對那這裡面又有很多委託行為是否合法化所以這個應該是我們進入主條的時候還要做討論然後釐清的意思嗎我還是一樣因為我們在處理有關於黃牛這件事情在行政院的四次這個開會裡面都有提到要採取分散立法也就是目的失業主管機關盡量分散 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
229.957 |
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250.836 |
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那如果说是挂号黄牛如果有这个名词的话那是否由卫福部他们来做比较好的所以您表达意见是因为要分散到目的或者叫分流立法分流立法到目的事业主管机关那我们来配合就不希望纳在我们内政部管辖的社会秩序维护法里 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
250.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
270.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那個報告委員我想我們是一起合作的啦就是各個部一起合作那我們因為警察人員有那個警察權那警察權可以協助的立場一定來協助但是這一張黃牛票他的認定要開罰多少錢或是怎麼認定不是由我們來認定的是目的事業主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
295.806 |
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或者它是違反環境噪音的部分的話呢是要目的事業主管機關來認定可能會比較好所以這樣子的競合啊我們需要仔細來討論我想很多委員都贊成但是如果你全部把它堆回去是社會秩序維護法那就一條條圓要解決一個部會裡面要處理的事情會有困擾那部長您請留步然後同步請消保處的代表有嗎今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
296.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
320.56 |
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小寶處有請還有一今天好像是文化部來文化部副市長有請謝謝包含教育部不好意思最後我想請教因為剛剛我還沒提到黃牛票我只是提到醫療我們部長就提到黃牛票現在對於不管是運動賽事或是像演唱會 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
321.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
341.941 |
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那这个在过去可能他卖假设好一点的位置五千块黄牛票如果烘台到八千或甚至一万的我们就认定是黄牛票嘛对不对那但是现在因为现在社会变迁那我们在饮食上已经有所谓的代买代牌 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
342.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
361.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
就现在不是只有像Uber其实我们现在有一种就是它取代了整合了传统代为排队就在饮食上也有包括买这些票券所以以前的黄牛票我们是称黄牛票现在如果说OK我请他帮我代排代买 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
362.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
390.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個部分怎麼認定因為我 譬如說他賣我八千假設這一個演唱會的這位歌星我覺得我能夠聽到他的演唱他的票券本來五千塊的那幫我代牌代買的他說那個勞務費要我給他三千這個願者如果我也願意的話這樣還會是黃牛票嗎這個部分可不可以回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
392.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
395.5 |
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那部長您就先請坐好了好好好你請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
396.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
425.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
跟委員報告這個在行政院討論的時候把黃牛票的一個定義上就是說是一個加價轉售就是從所以我把那個加價看成是勞務就沒關係勞務如果說真的是有一些勞務的付出我想那是一般的一個社會上通常的一個合理情形但是如果說不是超過一般社會上合理認定的這種勞務的這個給付的話那是一個所謂的加價轉售然後謀取所謂的一個不當的這個是不是要定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
425.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
441.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
因為有些人他比如說原價五千但是他真的覺得一萬他也願意那所以你的勞務要跟我收同樣五千那這個你要認定是黃牛還是是是他勞務一般是會想共通 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
442.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
460.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
共同認定的一個所謂的勞務的給付的一個費用我想這個應該是在所有的各行各業中都有一定的一個給付的一個標準啦有嗎現在買運動賽事或是買演唱會也有一個認定標準的嗎如果是個人親自去網路上去購票或去現場購票的話那就沒有所謂勞務的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
461.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
481.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那委託他人的話也許會有所謂的跑路啊或者說一些服務的費用但這種服務費用如果說已經超過原價的一倍或兩倍的話那實際上就是一個超越的性質啦那就是一個加價的轉售啦它加價轉售的目的是在於它自己個人的圖利啊而不是說跑路費用所謂的一個勞務上付出的一個對價啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
483.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
506.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以你們是這樣認定但是買的人他甘願的話怎麼辦他還是有罪對方還是有罪假定買人甘願的話可能就不會提出任何的買了黃牛票所以就沒有這個問題我們不能說沒有這個問題而是說絕大部分的黃牛票的形成就是因為說這種加價轉秀然後被迫讓這些沒有辦法買到票的消費者 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
507.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
517.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
被迫要去負擔這樣的一個錢出來那是一個被迫性質跟所謂的勞務性的基金應該是有差別的所以我想其他的應該也是一樣的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
520.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
549.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
是不是委員報告就是一般像以代購行為他很可能其實只是以代購的行為包裝他加價的這個非法的事實所以這可能都還是要事實認定那基本上我們還是會從法法來看的話超過票價的金額在販售的話他其實應該就是就是在我們法裡面是個黃牛的行為對那大部分說代購其實都只是用代購在做一個違法行為的包裝這樣子所以你們不 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
550.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
578.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
不認可這樣嗎 但實際上生活上可能需要喔所以這塊沒關係 那我大概了解你們的立場最後 請回座 最後部長我最後不好意思 我最後再請教一點不是這次修法 但是也是社會秩序維護法第63條有提到就是說如果散佈謠言足以影響公共之安寧者要處三日以下的拘留或新台幣三萬以下的罰環 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
579.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
606.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那像現在大罷免 不是大罷免 對不起現在預算 現在這個我們總預算的從去年底到今年很多的謠言不斷的衝刺散布在我們社會上甚至有的是行政機關散播出來的那像這個 請問您這個合不合乎因為民眾常常就恐慌啦說什麼錢被刪 所以我什麼福利沒了 什麼福利沒這有沒有影響公共安寧 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
608.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
636.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
报告委员这个要看事实上如何认定对如果事实上谣言所说的那个项目没有被删除但是却有这样的谣言出来那这一块是警察还是谁要去执法如果是社会秩序维护法当然是由警察来出面来处理这一块所以呢所以我们听到这样谣言的要检举是吗对是不是检举然后警察就就 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
637.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
660.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
跟我們警政署檢舉是嗎不是啊我就問你這一塊現在就很多啊您剛所引用的這個條文當然裡面寫的是這個部分那應該怎麼處理啊檢舉完了我們還要做事實的認定啊事實的認定所以現在要有人等於提出跟警政署提出有這樣的謠言是這樣嗎程序上我請警政署來回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
662.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
687.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
如果有這個狀況的話就是提出檢舉那我們會來做調查像誰像如果說110或者是到警察機關檢舉都可以你第一前面講110110的報案或警察機關來做檢舉如果是屬於這個設置法裡面我們會做設立然後再做依照市值的一個調查依照這個市值的證據是不是屬於這個屬於這個是屬於遙遠的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
690.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
719.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好那最後我想請部長還有署長我們現在接下來我們的社會有很多的考驗我們希望我們中央單位千萬不要辦藍不辦綠希望能夠公正好嗎該維護的要維護然後真的違法的不要分藍綠都該處理好嗎沒有問題一定是依法行政對依法行政我們會保持重力好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
720.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
722.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好,謝謝徐姓委員的諮詢 |