| IVOD_ID |
16046 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16046 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-27 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-27T12:00:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-27T13:06:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:06:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b73ade72829c64ed53741711f1205b95f63b917443c8985e627684c85f64cd7bd4be71ccd4f6cc005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-27T12:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院黨團朝野黨團協商（事由：本院經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會報告併案審查委員羅美玲等20人、委員邱議瑩等19人分別擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」、委員王定宇等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」、委員邱志偉等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案」及委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:00:00 - 13:06:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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2117.04 |
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好,那我們是不是就先來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2341.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2342.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
衛福部有人在嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2400.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2414.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
好那我們就先宣讀好不好先宣讀那個好那我們就先直接開始今天的那個協商號那是不是請先宣讀這個新的提案內容跟附帶決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2416.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2435.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
宣讀政委員天才黨人所提的修正動議第十四條第四項外國專業人才及外國貼定專業人才在我國就學取得大學、校院、學士以上學位者得一下列規定折抵第一項及前項之在我國連續拘留期間一 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2436.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2458.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
外國專業人才取得博士學位者折抵兩年、碩士學位者折抵一年、學士學位且就讀四年以上者折抵六個月、三者不得合併折抵、二外國特定專業人才取得博士學位者折抵兩年、碩士學位者折抵一年、二者不得合併折抵、其餘均與現行法相同。附帶決議第一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2460.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2482.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
建立有國勞動力短缺導因於少子女化與高齡化問題,由於產業人才短缺的急迫性,特別是中高階或掌握關鍵技術的人才,因此對內打造培育產業人才需求的高教育環境,對外進行攬裁、流裁兩者應可並行不備 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2483.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2506.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
此次為能立即爭取外籍人才留台服務、修法與我國就讀並取得學位者放寬申請永久居留年限為鑒於政府資源有限各類產業對專業人才需求的急迫性不一、衛冕法規遭不當濫用、形成移民漏洞而引發社會對立、影響國人權益。國發會應討籌相關部會議各類專業工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2511.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2519.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
公需狀況分別定地外籍專業人才每年申請永久居留名額並適時檢討政策執行狀況滾動修正之提案委員謝依鳳、楊瓊英、鄭振前、鄭天才 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2526.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2544.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
第二案介於現行身心障礙照顧服務資源有限未免應建立友善樓台環境卻產生排擠效應從而降低國人原有照顧服務品質針對外國專業人才本人配偶未成年子女及因身心障礙無法治理生活之成年子女 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2544.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2567.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
於獲取永久居留並經評估適用身心障礙者權益保障法第五十條及第五十一條長期照顧法第八條之一第四項規定所提供之服務而衍生之相關經費惠服不應以外加方式編列之意維持整體照顧服務品質與能量提案委員謝依鳳、楊瓊英、鄭任前、鄭清才宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2569.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2585.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
好 謝謝那我們現在三黨的這個同仁都到齊我是不是先讓國發會針對今天國民黨黨團提出來的這個修正動議是不是先表示一下意見好不好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2587.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2597.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
謝謝主席還有各位委員我做簡短的說明就第一個我們現在今年光今年組織總數統計我們的缺工就是24.4萬那專業人才缺6.7萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2601.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2628.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
專業人才缺六點七萬我們估到2038年我們缺口是一百萬我們現在也做了很多的調查發現副學士在我們這個領域裡面扮演非常重要的角色比如說工廠他需要乙級電匠、甲級電匠這種電匠的重電維修大學生比較不會去做得靠副學士我們今天早上才開一個能源會議就發現現在光申請裝冷就你買冷氣要等三個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2629.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2653.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
在台北因為這樣的技術人才都找不到如果我們在限縮這種技術人才的需求的話我們其實會持續造成很嚴重的社會權供所以我們希望能夠維持原版本在學士跟副學士上面我們都可以放寬也請委員放心放心什麼原因呢?這樣的人數目前我們看到目前在就讀大學的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2654.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2679.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這些人那如果有一半的人願意留下來只佔千分之二點八的就業人口數那這個人口數是非常少的所以呢如果我們還要緊縮我們將很難面對競爭因為我們最近統計下來我們是輸給日本也輸給新加坡我們只有比韓國好一點點那我們的競爭力會薄弱另外一個很關鍵的是2038年 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2682.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2703.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
2038年東南亞的薪資水平跟各種福利會達到跟我們一樣所以我們會找不到人那日本也在決戰2038年之前怎麼樣去累積足夠的人才所以我是希望這個法條能夠維持原意請各位委員能夠支持好來江淇凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2704.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2721.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
今天這個修法是好事因為現在缺工確實很嚴重燒紙化問題也嚴重那國際上都在搶人才台灣東城要慶祝我現在看到依鳳也有提邱瑩、邱委員、羅美玲跟賴瑞榮那我個人的立場我比較贊成就可以支持行政業院版 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2722.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2736.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
就是在那個學士或副學士可以折抵一年然後那個博士是折抵兩年、碩士學位折抵一年可是不得併計好不好我就支持行政的驗版謝謝好謝謝謝謝張綺凱委員來羅美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2742.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2761.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好 剛剛主委已經講得非常的清楚我們是連國外的專業人才我們都要吸引來台更何況這些僑外生是我們台灣自己培育的人才我們如果是說要緊縮不讓他們就是有誘因留在台灣我覺得這是一個非常讓人家匪夷所思的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2762.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2779.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
因為這僑外信是我們臺灣大專院校所培養出來的人才你不把他留著就把他送到日本、把他送到新加坡、把他送到韓國所以我是覺得說真的是支持院本因為剛剛主委也講得很清楚像副學士的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2781.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2804.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以我們家也是一樣冷氣壞了兩三個禮拜我找不到人家來幫我幫我們做修理天氣又這麼的熱那是誰會去做就像主委所講的是副學士像甲級電這樣才會來做處理的事情所以我是覺得說我們缺的人才是方方面面都有各層級都有所以我是支持這個院版那就是這部分的話也請我們國民黨委員可以支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2806.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2809.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
國民黨也支持外國專業人才延攬及僱用法,因應未來高階人才缺乏的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2822.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2825.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們也知道說怎麼樣子修這個法然後再向外來延攬人才進來那畢竟我們還有未來的AI產業等等那但是不能夠因為我們提到的就是說什麼冷氣缺口問題我們就開放了 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2841.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2857.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
對就開放我們絕對是贊成橋外人士留台繼續為臺灣服務但是必須是要有合理性因為過去以來大家都認為說學士臺灣現在學士已經都是比比皆是那 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2857.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2885.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
怎麼可能就是在這個法上面來看好像把連就是副學士也變成專業人才那對於就是說我們未來在邏輯性的這個考量上面當然會有有一點不一致的情況所以我認為說我們是不是我們是不是還是可以就是說以學士以上那當然說博士我們當然希望說臺灣培養的這樣子優秀人的橋外人才可以留在臺灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2888.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2909.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
等一下等一下那個鄭天才委員發言完再讓國發會回應非常謝謝國發會還有相關的部會這個我在前幾天有邀請他們來討論也提供了相關的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2911.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2918.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我還是大家這個還是要從法律的條文來看所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2921.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2942.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個專業工作這個就是外國專業人才延攬及僱用法所謂的專業工作就是就業服務法46條第一項第一款至第三款第五款及第六款就是就業服務法還有48條還有就業服務法48條 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2946.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2969.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以我們這個剛才這個委員支持的理由其實是看到只是部分看到只是部分就那個部分我絕對是支持但是我要讓大家了解的是說這個是就業服務法46條 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2973.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2992.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個第三款是什麼呢老師一般的老師啊我們現在我上次講了哈我還是要講就是我們現在很多大專校宴一直在裁測失利的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2994.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
3005.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
然後很多老師都還是這個帶課帶課帶課啊帶課啊國內的一直帶課所以我們必須真的是要考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
3007.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
3034.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
如果要去限收在專門性及技術性工作我絕對百分之百支持或是華小或外國人經政府核准投資或設立事業之主管百分之百支持問題是就是這些下列學校教師好幾款所以這個真的是要去仔細的去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
3035.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
3053.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
然後這個國安會整理相關的部會所提供的資料橋外生來台修讀協會之領域分布情形教育領域2.16%人文及藝術領域15.47%包括其他的這個比例都還不少 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
3065.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
3086.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以真正要講到的那個專門性及技術性質工作的比例是部分所以我們要很仔細的因為如果真的這麼是所以我們有提修正動議希望能夠支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
3087.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
3093.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
法定人權及法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
3101.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
3128.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
不是負責另外一個業務的你們要通盤的就在教育部各司之間來討論你是國際司當然就你不了解其他的高教師的困難他有他的很多困難包括國教署他有他的困難常常也曾經反映我們的流浪教師所以這個部分真的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
3130.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
3156.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
如果是真的專門性技術性的我百分之百支持但是因為他很廣啊還有包括我只是舉例子一般教師哦那還有其他的48條那個所以這個還有後面的第46條就業服務法第46條的第五款第六款所以這個部分這個我要還是要自己審慎以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3162.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3184.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
來 劉主委回應一下謝謝委員我想跟委員做兩個補充說明這個只是一個折抵那將來他要留下來還要經過一個評鑑考核總共有八大項這八大項有兩項我說明一下第一個就是碩士的學歷評分碩士是20分 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3186.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3212.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
學士是十分、副學士是五分所以對學歷本來就存在的差異其中還有一項是配合政府政策也就是說主要是配合政府產業發展相關的政策企業受雇者還有國家政策所開設專班經由基督基管到入學的僑生只有這兩個條件也就是說如果這個產業它不是教育產業它不是在我們的政策範圍內 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3213.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3234.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那他是並沒有辦法得到分數那當他得不到分數他其實是折抵只是一個加分的項目並不是決定項目所以第二個事情呢那這樣的委員所擔心的人數呢我們現在就算整個整個整個全部畢業進來那大概只佔千分之二點八 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3235.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3250.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那從事教育相關的人按照我們過去存留比例這1408人存留大概不會到一半所以影響就業人口數是不到萬分之一萬分之大概0.7只有萬分之0.7第二個經過這八個條件的選項裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3256.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3281.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那從學歷的角度跟他在政策的角度他的得分數都會尤其是政策角度他是沒辦法得到分數的所以我認為在委員的這個擔心的領域裡面影響是微乎其微也請委員考慮一下這個只是一個讓他更寬更比較跟別的國家有競爭力跟別的國家有競爭力那我們還是有個管控的地方是在評分的上面八個要項的評分 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3287.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3302.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我還是建議大家先看一下其實我們上一次的在主條討論的時候已經大家都有充分表達意見也談得非常清楚這個開放的外國專業人才尤其是在台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3304.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3310.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
曾經在臺灣就學、折抵他的居留的時程其實對於國內的就業市場影響並不大但是對於我們攬財的影響其實是會有的我們也希望這些人都是在臺灣就學 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3321.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3337.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
台灣訓練出來的專業人士我們只是希望他在過去在台灣就學的時候的居留時間能夠折抵他未來申請永居的這個時間而已所以是不是懇請各位委員因為國民黨也有提出一個修正動議那國民黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3340.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3360.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
黨團的版本是把這個副學士把它取消然後這個學士的居留只折抵半年我覺得在現在這個全球虛才恐極的時段是不是我們能夠敬請這個國民黨黨團的同仁是不是能夠支持原來行政院的這個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3361.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3378.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
就是不要去歧視副學士啦副學士其實我們現在看到很多的科技大廠的科技大廠的這些老闆過去他都是專科畢業而已喔趙薇我們沒有歧視副學士我們只是說就是為了就是說讓就是國內的專業人才也可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3381.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3407.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
國內的專業人才不會有永居的問題因為他就是臺灣人我們現在講的是國外的來臺灣就學的人才臺灣培訓出來的專業人才是臺灣培訓出來的專業人才不是否定臺灣的每個政策都要多重考量那我們只是著重說怎麼樣子考量就是不要影響到國內專業人才的這樣子就業的權利這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3411.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3412.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
並沒有行政院版 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3439.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3459.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
因為我們現在樓下還有一場協商那這個聽說是已經跟國民黨團有協調過了我們先再討論先討論下面的那個附帶決議來那個附帶決議好那第十四條的附帶決議兩個附帶決議齁一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3467.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3496.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
二十一條之一的附帶決議是希望衛福部能夠外加的在額外編列預算嘛對不對那衛福部是同意的嘛好那二十一條之一的附帶決議我們就通過大家沒意見沒有意見的話我們就通過好不好就照國民黨版的那個國民黨提的版本附帶決議通過那現在第十四條的附帶決議因為這個你們十四條的附帶決議跟第十四條的修正案其實是有相關聯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3497.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3522.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以第十四條大家沒有共識的話十四條的附帶決也不會有共識因為你現在是還要還要他們去檢討拘留名額現在連拘留的扣底時間我們都沒有沒有共識了更何況要去檢討拘留名額這個其實是要限縮了不是放寬我覺得大家要考慮清楚為了國家長遠的發展我是建議要考慮清楚這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3529.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3557.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
現在能夠拿到的居留的名額其實也不多啦因為他有各種不同的評比那我們如果還要去滾動檢討要限縮他的居留名額的話我覺得這個反而是走回頭路來那不然那個主委你要不要先跟國民黨團溝通一下我先下去樓下 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3562.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3577.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
阿對啊他們也要下去樓下阿他們也要處理農業移工那個公糧的事情好啦我是建議這樣啦這個其實對國內的就業市場是沒有影響第二個我們要想清楚這些人是台灣培育出來的專業人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3578.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3604.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
是在臺灣就學臺灣培育出來的專業人才我們如果現在給他限縮等於我們否定我們自己培育的專業人才我覺得這個邏輯上不太通啦第三個政委員您剛提到那個老師的部分他如果真的要去當老師要去學校任教他還要有特殊的比如說他的是特殊的語言是學校的需求我建議用詞我用詞又不精準了好對不起當然啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3606.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3630.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
就像陸生陸生來台也是在台灣培育的人才我們沒有讓他進來所以用詞還是要精準一點從國外來的不只是僱外生還有外國人還有陸生不能說因為他是台灣培育的人才所以就可以這個用詞還是要精準一點中生跟僱外生是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3635.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3654.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
來好不好那要不要我們支持那個修正修正的條文好不好副學士我是覺得把副學士納入沒有什麼不好啦副學士 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3661.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3680.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那附帶決議附帶決議我覺得那個第十四條的附帶決議我們是不是就我們不要去限縮那個居留的名額啦那第二十一條的附帶決議我們剛剛已經通過了嘛好嗎我們現在整個法其實是要放寬我們要吸引更多的人才能夠留在台灣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3683.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3698.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
你們同意我們就可以簽協商結論啦你現在不能講不是你能決定那我們是不是應該對這個政策滾動檢討啦是不是可以啊那就是國發會應統籌各部會依各類專業工作需求狀況做滾動檢討好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3708 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3732.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
居留名額那個限縮的我們就我們就先不要我們就是把這整個外國人才的這個實際的工作狀況跟需求狀況我們做滾動式的檢討好嗎那個文字我是不是授權議事人員跟國發會這邊去做比較精準的文字修正好嗎先先修完吧現在現在每次都 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3734.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3746.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
等下修完還是要讓你們看還是要讓你們簽名那OK是怎樣?同意嗎?照原來的修正條文嗎?學士赴學士則抵一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3789.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3793.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那我是不是先宣讀一下第十四條條文我們照協商內容通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3891.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3898.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我們請宣讀一下那個附帶決議的修正文字附帶決議第一案倒數第三行從國發會這邊改成國發會每年因統籌相關部會依各類專業工作供需狀況做滾動式檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3909.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3909.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
宣讀完畢 |