| IVOD_ID |
160425 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160425 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-21T12:12:36+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-21T12:26:03+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/16e1d9e54b37d4c86b77af023b31c360d5119736a8127fe72f7633afc40a593bf151987b109fadff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:12:36 - 12:26:03 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、國家安全會議、國防部、國家安全局、海洋委員會、內政部警政署、國防部憲兵指揮部、國防部資通電軍指揮部、海洋委員會海巡署率所屬相關單位列席就「軍事審判專庭（股）之執行現況，並就共諜滲透、機敏資訊洩漏等國安事件及忠誠安全查核機制，提出檢討報告及防制措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.823 |
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21.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
請部長跟局長麻煩部長局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
41.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
法定人數不足司法最基本的一定是要公正公平對不對我看了一下目前因為這個罷免案的連署兩邊去檢舉之後中選會告發的罷免就是民進黨連署有15個案子再加高鴻安一共16個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
71.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
相對這邊國民黨罷這個民進黨17個案子16比17結果啊目前已經辦了國民黨已經被辦了5個案子0比5這個有符合司法的公正跟公平嗎法定 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
75.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
101.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這個每個案件的一個案情不一樣啦 案情不一樣那我也不會干涉介入 我也沒有去參與了解這些事你有聽到你這層檢察官說你這樣是不是變成司法打手了怎麼會這麼不公平 你看看咧明明是加起來16比17啊你再怎麼取樣都不可能出現這麼不公平吧剛剛 局長 你剛才的意思你剛才的意思是法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
102.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
122.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
檢察官這邊都沒有沒有沒有發查你現在責任是推給那個推給那個檢察官這邊嗎沒有檢察官有發查但是應該是沒有全部我們現在沒發查你為什麼0比5呢為什麼出現0比5你的意思是報告員如果你有注意到的話其實目前現在發動偵辦的都是一些死亡連署 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
123.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
146.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
的一個狀況基隆您配講那個是110多個不是死亡連署是什麼那個不是死亡連署他沒有任何死亡連署嗎來你看你看中選會來看中選會的告發他什麼一件以上有涉及死亡連署或者其他的這裡面有多少16個案15加1包括高雄案的有多少是有死亡連署的你目前辦一個案子給我看有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
147.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
155.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們現在辦的都是死亡連署 因為死亡連署死亡連署就是一個很明顯的地方你不要硬啊 你不要閃避 這16個案子裡面沒有任何一個案子是有死亡連署的嗎這個要看個案的要看個案 你這邊已經辦了 南京這邊辦了5個啊你這邊16個 我問你 16個裡面沒有任何一個有死亡連署嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
171.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
188.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
其實對我們來說沒有這個要經得起考驗喔這個非常經得起考驗對我們來說其實是沒有藍綠我們只是從這些死亡連署的人數太多的這些狀況可能檢察官覺得這個是比較嚴重的第一個中選會是有一個以上他就告發了這是第一次嘛對不對第一次的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
190.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
207.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那你應該同時辦啊你覺得有 到目前我就是在辦啊你去辦 辦到一個5比0包括一個5比0局長 局長你能不能給我的答案 局長現在是嚴重 這個司法的天秤 嚴重傾斜嘛我看到也知道啊現在就是說 你到底當時要辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
209.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
232.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
你要公平嘛我現在不是講藍綠的問題你要司法是要公正跟公平的你什麼時候綠的才要辦我們很同意喔我們很同意委員說這個這個司法要公平我們不是講藍綠啊你這樣有公平嗎所以我們現在就是針對如果委員你去看那些死亡連署的狀況你就會出現你就會知道說問題出在哪裡對啊啊你綠的我就問你嘛綠的都沒有死亡連署嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
236.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
255.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
都沒有是嗎15加1 包括高黃金的案 霸藍的15個案子都沒有嗎現在在國會殿堂 現在是對著全民講話 局長現在檢驗兩個嘛 你什麼時候開始辦律第二個你在辦的時候有多少個是有死亡連署是律的發起的一定經得起考驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
257.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
282.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好 現在去考驗 有 全民正在看你你目前已經經不起考驗了0比5 你接下來就看你的進度來 保定 我問你一下我們年紀都差不多啦我跟你講一個比較沉痛的事情我們這個年紀啊 我們經過戒嚴到解嚴多少人為了台灣的民主法治 人權不要說流血流汗 連性命都丟了啦那鄭南榕為了爭取言論100%你們現在辦這個案子這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
311.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這樣辦不只是沒有公正沒有公平我問你一個最簡單的你應該是一個民主素養的法務部長全世界的民主國家除了台灣這一次國民黨的台北市黨部被你們搜索了近景連柯文哲家裡面跟民眾黨的中央黨部都被你們搜索了你的腦海裡面全世界民主國家有那個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
313.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
341.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
檢調去搜索在野黨的這個辦公室的有沒有幾個給我聽這個我對這邊是沒有研究美國如果共和黨執政如果共和黨執政敢去搜索民進黨民主黨任何一個辦公室而且這個是權力分立的嘛這個有犯罪嫌疑要搜索的話這是要跟法院申請的如果法院沒有搜索的必要所以柏定我說你我們年紀差不多我們經歷了那個整個民主進程你現在倒退如何啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
344.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
359.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個對你來講歷史定位這是一個傷害你要想辦法去補破往往前邁進我剛問你的是一個全世界的標準全世界有哪個民主國家發生了最近這八九個月以來民眾黨的中央黨部被搜索國民黨的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
361.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
376.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
台南的黨部被搜索台北市黨部被搜索現在台南新北都有多少人有五個人被你們縮壓我現在問的是一個普世的價值全世界民主國家美國這樣共和黨執政他敢去搜索民主黨的這個黨部嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
378.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
397.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以跟委員報告 這個違照屬押 違照提議這本來就是破壞民主法制的基石嘛所以這次貴大院也是不是在去年也通過了選罷法的修法就嚴懲就是這些違照屬押 違照這些的提議的這些的未經他們同意的 這些違照法所以這個本來就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
400.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
427.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我現在要講的是你的歷史定位今天怎麼樣去捍衛台灣的法治跟人權我給你一個標準是說你去看看全世界的全世界的民主國家有哪一個民主國家的在野黨的黨部中央黨部像最近這八個多月以來被這樣搜索你們要經得去考驗那你如果還在意的話我講的話你還在意的話要想一想夜深人靜的時候想一想你的歷史定位是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
428.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
454.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好 接下來司法處剛剛講的公正跟公平比例原則很重要嘛 對不對這是比例原則也很重要嘛 我問啊共諜案 民進黨連環報你們有沒有要好好去辦相對的比例原則 你說有死人去連署委照文書嘛 告知嘛 對不對這是重罪嗎國家安全這個才是國家安全法這個才是重罪法 七年以上啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
456.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
464.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這邊五年以下就你現在用大砲打小鳥不只是5比0的問題耶需要去大收手大縮壓嗎這個沒有違反比例的原則個案不同啊個案不同這五個個案變成一個通案嘛對不對結果你五個通案的原則是什麼就是大收手大縮壓嘛不是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
480.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
489.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個犯罪嫌疑重大當然有刑事司法101條的這些要件都發生嫌疑重大他的徒刑是五年以下他是重大犯罪嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
490.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
511.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你要好好辦 你去辦共諜案 民進黨的共諜案這完全是回到法律刑事訴訟法的法律得益的規定以及那個案情 以及那個偵查案罪所必要的已經有多少法界的人士 從學者到法官到檢察官 律師在提醒你嚴重違反這個比例原則 你都沒有聽進去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
512.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
521.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
不要再大砲倒小鳥了來 我們再看看以前的個案你從早上被問的同樣的案子以前為什麼沒有大搜索 沒有大收押 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
523.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
542.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
韓國瑜一千多個案子喔我想這個不起訴所分是在你那個人已經理由說得非常的清楚非常的清楚來 博定 你說理由來我們看看呢當初啊 綠營在高雄罷免高雄市長韓國瑜後來沒有起訴綠營地檢署的更高官第一個起訴書那個不起訴人在說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
544.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
571.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他說在蒐集連署的過程裡面並沒有護意證系統等方式去核對跟比照身份證字號所以自義難去驅使說你要發覺有連署者是提議前就已經死亡的情形所以是被告等人根本就難以迎之刑死偽造文書罪當初這個檢察官是這樣提的這個理由現在存不存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
572.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
593.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
存在啊 再看看郭台銘 郭台銘更多耶郭台銘五千兩百七十一個 剛才民進黨在講他們比例比較低這個數目是這麼大耶這個案子第一個 沒有大搜索 更沒有大收押後來約談了三個主要的幹部對不對約談完以後 今年三月份 聽各位喔上個月 這個剛剛簽結喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
596.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
617.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這兩個案子都沒事 結果你現在不只有事 你還大縮手大縮鴨你是不是有嚴重違反法律的比例原則好來 再看下一個人民現在更生氣的是什麼你有很多大案子要辦 我剛才說的你還要去辦 民進黨這個共諜案聯環報 這個不是影響更大 第二個打詐的案子啊今年三月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
621.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
643.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
台灣人民被騙了一萬六千多件損失的錢高達七十一億這每個案子可能都是破一個家庭甚至是幾個人可能會想不開的事情這多嚴重啊莫定 我們不要講多啦你跟我我們如果被騙個十萬塊你可能還了幾十天 一輩子搞不好都記得有些人是一輩子的居蓄 關財本都不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
644.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
672.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
整個可能都家破人亡了你們有好好去打仗嗎你多一點心思去辦這個事嘛不是 我現在跟你講是比較你現在花了那麼多的人力這個打仗本來就是我們現在整個辦單人員就全力在這打仗所以那個成果我整個檢察官跟警方非常的認真在辦這個很辛苦嘛可是第一個是所以你現在把人力你現在把人力 把減掉人力移出去搞 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
675.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
702.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
去搞這個偽造文書稅你這樣不是對不起你們檢察官記不起調查局的人員嗎抓重點做嘛 這個是不是更重要是不是人民現在就說 我代表人民在問你你把打詐的事情做好不要把人力分出去做一些人民生氣的事情反正有任何的犯罪 犯罪嫌疑我想辦案人員都會 都會積極的你的人力有限嘛 對不對輕重緩急嘛 你現在這個該重的地方不重 該輕的不輕你怎麼可以不辦呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
705.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
716.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你有辦啦 所以第一個公平那第二個就是委婉比例原則嘛你把最重要的事情多做才是重要的共諜案跟打詐來 最後我最後做一個最後做一個適合三個要求基於法律的平等原則不要雙標辦案不要讓人家覺得說案子碰到民進黨就轉彎了 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
725.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
746.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以請一座內你針對藍綠你在辦的狀況是怎麼樣給本席一個報告第二個依照比例原則你既然你在辦的這個偽造文書過往的人他這個連署請你把共諜案你們目前做到什麼程度也跟本席報告一下我現在不是只有本席要的全民現在盯著你們在看另外呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
747.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
771.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
各界現在在講 政府是濫用司法檢調的這個潛力 以大砲打小奶這個行徑我覺得不是只有對立法院負責你們應該公開開個記者會 也提出個說明以示眾議 不要讓你們基層的檢察官跟調查員接著說你們做長官的高高在上 聽不到基層的聲音也沒有去捍衛他們的這個形象一個禮拜都要一個公開說明 可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
777.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
796.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
主席我要求這三個特別是第三項請給本席一個八卦然後你們對外要明確的說明好不好跟全民做個交代就麻煩照剛委員所說的處理我們年紀差不多啦台灣真的是在一個非常危險的狀況我們年輕的時候那麼辛辛苦苦建立的民主法治人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
798.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
804.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
趕快踩煞車 怎麼讓他回到一個公正公平好不好 那這我留給你啦好 謝謝 |