| IVOD_ID |
160360 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160360 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-17T13:01:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-17T13:15:04+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c2d17dc46794b9a4b556dae5d6ba4ab1db8644d80871ec8675aa7aeb25548b49fc958fb506399f075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:01:31 - 13:15:04 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、外交部就「因應美國退出巴黎氣候協定並提出對等關稅，對國內產業淨零轉型造成衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請環境部部長、勞動部、教育部、經濟部針對「國內校園、賣場及工作場域之室內空氣污染物管理及防制精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【專題報告綜合詢答】
【4月16日及17日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 謝主席那那個因為我還是在這邊再次謝謝部長幫助台東所以我今天就不請您上台了首先我想先請我請那個勞動部信任職安署林署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
43.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
65.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
來麻煩林署長林副署長林玉堂林副署長是這樣子我想先請教您說是否贊成開放植栽報告我想了解一下您的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
71.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
87.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
有關職業災害的資料的透明化跟公開揭露這個是我們紅部長一直在要我們這邊在做努力的方向目前其實在部裡面目前的一個有關職業災害的資訊的揭露已經有很多平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
88.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
114.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
但是呢並沒有把整個報告書整個送到這個平台上因為這是涉及到這個相關的一個規範那但是個案做成宣導資料或是災害發生的地點原因然後罰款金額等等我們在我們其他的公開平台都有放你說現在目前公告的是重大職災我們看一下你們公告的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
116.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
143.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
最後最後一頁吧其實就是這麼簡單我那天已經有放過這一張了就是這個離災人數然後地點工程名稱就這樣那這個完全看不出對未來是沒有幫助的所以我接下來我再請教就是局限空間是不是室內作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
148.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
169.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
局限空間它基本上就是我們這個勞工在進出這個工作的那個場域它受限那是不是室內呢那就要看因情形而定如果說以這個建築物來講地下室裡面它就有可能會有一個所謂的這個需要一個人孔蓋打開以後人進去那這個就是局限空間是 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
174.425 |
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197.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我希望你可以不要被你們的原來的署長影響因為我的答案很簡單我的問題很簡單就是局限空間是不是室內作業是或者不是而已如果以我剛剛舉的例子就是室內作業沒有錯好那有含釋嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
201.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
221.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
沒有特別就這個部分因為好像我們也沒有受到這樣的一個需要我們這邊有在問答因為我幫你統計了其實目前從以前到現在應該有八個那最近一個月連續發生了三件侷限空間作業時的災害包括了3月23號台中金屬表面處理業 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
223.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
241.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
還有清洗污水槽作業造成四人中毒昏迷兩人身體不適住院觀察還有4月10號桃園下水道罕管內從事纜線檢查作業一人被大水沖走了溺斃死亡4月13日斗六食品工廠兩個兄弟 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
243.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
262.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
從事這個伐機抽水作業吸入硫化氫中毒死亡總共造成36住院發生頻率有上升的情形那如何避免這個室內侷限空間的危害指安署應該要有積極的對策不曉得您認不認同我剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
266.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
291.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那特別是在這個月的13日雲林縣斗六市這一家食品公司傳出了兩死公安意外那黃姓兄弟進行雨水回收的池閥機抽水時因為吸入了這個早期昏迷跌落回收池逆避那職安署的中區職安中心14日的時候有表示池水中含有高濃度的硫化氫 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
292.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
318.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
是這次植栽主要的原因喔那這個訊息是不是正確跟委員報告目前整個案子的詳細發生原因我們的植栽正在進行調查進行那這個是我們初步當天我們的勞檢員在案發後初步到現場初步了解的原因是不是那是不是食品公司都有類似的回收池有吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
320.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
335.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那是不是回收池就一定會抽水那會抽水的話就容易造成這個硫化氫跑出來那這種有毒的物質事業單位跟這個勞工如果知道了你覺得他們還會冒險從事這樣有死亡死亡風險的作業嗎不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
337.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
359.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
好 那這樣反應都很正常那如果這樣的案例讓所有的回收池可能產生硫化氫的業者包括外包商知道別人發生了而他們可能也會發生難道他們就不會想要預防嗎應該是會吧他們也應該會去遵守安全措施吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
360.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
384.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
可是呢這樣的案例一直在發生喔所以本席才會一直請你們說要開放職災調查報告我已經講了很多次那我要再請教就是全國各種行業以及這個從事局限空間作業的勞工你們有掌握嗎你們可不可以透過這個調查或跨部會的合作來掌握可能發生的這個行職業跟勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
386.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
414.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
是跟委員報告確實我們有跟國土署這邊內政部國土署這邊有在合作像包括下水道的這些資料等等我們有陸續在跟各部會有在做資料的一個互相的一個借解所以狀況如何你們行業別都完全有掌握嗎跟委員報告大概沒有辦法完全掌握而且還有臨時工的部分臨時工的部分你們有掌握嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
415.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
432.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這困難度非常高因為他有時候作業只有半天或兩個小時就離開了特別是我們很多族人又特別臨時工又特別多那這個部分所以要請你們再加把勁那你們可不可以根據這些慘痛的教訓去宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
433.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
459.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
沒問題那為什麼就是說因為看來大部分的時候你們都是只會去勞動檢查然後出事了呢就調查開罰然後就沒了因為大家不知道發生的原因跟狀況也沒有辦法從中得到教訓所以大家不懂得預防所以同類型的這個災害就不斷的發生嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
461.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
479.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
接下來呢發生之後接下來就是等著這個新聞報導去就是應該是說你們在調查開罰之後然後實在調查報告批示完你們就存檔了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
480.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
507.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好 存檔了 因為封起來存檔了所以才會有我剛剛講的那個狀況那再來就是等著這個新聞報導去講這個不幸的悲劇啊好 所以這個是一個二循環那就是說這些調查報告其實是可以去個資之後那就是說為什麼不能公務使用我是覺得很莫名其妙 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
508.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
535.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那其他的這個重大職災也是一樣針對特定這個暴露風險族群去做有效的預防宣導我相信像火災的爆炸然後墜落還有這個侷限空間都是一樣的預防原則就是要有效的定期的教育訓練那我相信沒有人是願意這個冒著生命危險去做這些工作啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
535.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
560.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
只要他们能够知道说危险是什么在哪里怎么预防那别人是怎么发生意外的我想这些都是你们这个职灾调查报告的一个非常宝贵的资讯一定要揭露那我再请教就是职灾调查报告经过你们批准之后是不是就封存在自己内部欣赏了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
562.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
590.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
目前看起來好像是這樣公文報告 職災調查報告基本上到最後整個公文的最後存檔之前其實我們還是會做剛剛委員關心的這個宣導那確實這個光看 很多剛剛舉的那些例子光靠勞解是絕對不夠的我這樣問 因為我比較關心那個職災調查報告的部分我沒有要問你說宣導什麼東西那現在就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
592.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
619.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
剛剛就說你報告完基本上就內部封城你沒有就是完整的公告嗎沒有啊沒有完整的公布啊我們剛剛你如果忘記我可以再放一次給你看還要嗎第三次不用了吧那多久以後會把它key進資料庫對你們多久通常實在發生多久之後你們會把它key進資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
620.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
635.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
跟微報告我們從這個案子開始啟動調查就進入到資訊系統了所以整個都在系統裡面好那我可以請你提供這個存檔的格式給本席嗎好那再來你們現在的電腦存檔存了多少筆資料跟微報告這個資料旁邊的人知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
641.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
650.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們這個系統非常龐大 從民國93年都電運到現在所以你回去看一下目前提供給職災勞工的家屬大概有多少比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
653.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
679.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
如果重大實災的話基本上檢查報告書會去掉很多比較這個應該其實大部分百分之八十有十的資訊都提供給家屬你確定都提供給家屬因為很多的家屬跟我們反映實際的案例就是說家屬還要跟你們申請也未必申請得到完整的資訊而且都非常依賴這個檢查機關或者法院來調卷 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
680.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
708.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
很多這樣的比例不高嗎確實是現在目前是由家屬來跟我們索取資料的時候再提供我知道啊家屬一定會找你們要但是你們到底給多少嗎我想我只是點出這個那你如果覺得說家屬跟你們調你們就給完整的資訊你敢在這裡拍胸脯保證那可能拍令很快會下來你看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
710.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
726.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
講話要很我說你答詢要很注意啦你回頭去看看啦家屬調閱到底拿到多少資訊再不然又有多少是勞師動眾讓檢調機關跟法院來調卷的你回去換算一下比例啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
726.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
746.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好那我希望是說透過這一次的植栽的這個教訓悲劇可以不要再發生那最重要的是你們的資料能不能有效的應用那這個事情能不能順利的進行關鍵在於植栽署能不能開放你們就是剛剛講的這些資料那你們什麼時候才可以open data |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
749.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
758.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
委員應該是有在委員會的提案那這個部分我們目前正在研議也在處理說怎麼樣讓這個職業障礙的一個資料盡量公開那你預估大概需要多久的時間研議啊不會研議一輩子嗎任期都有限啊委員給我們三個月的時間好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
769.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
784.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我記得我質詢的要求我通常不會給人家到三個月那麼久應該最多都到兩個月而已是那就兩個月是謝謝好那我如果說今天一個月你行嗎喂那就兩個月謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
785.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
807.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
好啦那就兩個月齁那你們好好研究 希望兩個月後就有好消息所以我最後也希望說環境部跟這個經濟部各機關齁大家可以一起來協助治安署來掌握各個事業單位的這個高風險的這個設備跟機具然後大家一起為這個室內作業的有毒物質預防曝露一起盡一份心力好謝謝謝謝陳盈委員 |