| IVOD_ID |
16029 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16029 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-1-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第19次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第19次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-25T08:30:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-25T16:51:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
08:20:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a60929a8150938836f8cad9f551ce5fa921f627684c85f64cd7beca4e55c5cd431f15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第19次會議（事由：一、覆議案之處理事項。（6月21日）
二、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。（6月25日）
三、6月21日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。
四、6月25日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:15 - 16:51:00 |
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1952.578 |
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1974.199 |
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報告院會現在繼續開會對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢在進行質詢之前先請副秘書長報告部會所長請假請醒報告院會行政院來函喬武委員會許委員長嘉卿本日因公請假報告完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1975.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1978.009 |
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法院會今天進行個人質詢,內政組織質詢,請黃委員見好質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1999.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2008.236 |
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好,謝謝主席。我們請行政院左院長跟內政部劉部長。請左院長備詢和內政部部長備詢。黃委員好。委員長好。部長好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2024.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2053.256 |
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院長這個一開始來跟討論幾個客觀數字啊我想近5年臺灣的總人口減少了16.8萬人但臺中市逆勢的增加4.6萬人那如果我們來看的話其實臺中市不少縣市的名字都移入包含說周邊的彰化縣、南投縣也都移入那全國來自全國各地包含新北、臺北、高雄也都分別移入了許多人喔那所以其實看到說這個前5名的彰化、新北、南投、臺北、高雄 |
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2053.956 |
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2072.251 |
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一路人口跟這個彰化南投新北台北高雄一路人口是9282人那彰化南投一路是11000多人所以整體來講的話其實可以肯定說臺中市的人口增加可能跟這個本身有很多重大建設推動還有跟中部的共同生活圈逐漸成形有關係那 |
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2074.193 |
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2097.318 |
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今天我特別提到這個臺中市的人口成長,第一個就是說因為臺中市人口逐漸增加,所以有很多的這個重大建設也都需要這個中央的來幫忙。所以今天第一點我要來感謝我們行政院,包括說推動這個永續提升行政安全計畫,在前幾週來核定,讓臺中的確拿到了非常多的經費,5億多的經費核定,我想這個第一個感謝。 |
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2098.038 |
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2123.741 |
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那第二個要拜託就是說一樣的邏輯臺中是有這麼多的移入人口全國在減少但臺中在增加尤其是在我個人的選區裡面它的增加比例是最高的情況下面我們當然要拜託說這個永續提升行人安全計畫在下一個階段裡面行政院跟內政部是不是可以同意繼續來支持臺中因為我想這個這麼多人移入那我想我也特別重視我們這個行人安全 |
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2124.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2139.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那這麼多人一路可以看到說尤其是人口結構上來講他很多都是所謂年輕家庭年輕家庭他就會有小孩那小孩的問題其實就是最擔心就是說他通學步道他的行人安全我想都是很多年輕家庭最重視的一個生活上的細節 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2140.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2158.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個雖然沒有很政治但是我想都是人民最關心的民生問題所以我想問一下我們行政院跟內政部在接下來二階段也是所謂的行人永續提升永續提升的行人安全計畫裡面是不是能夠繼續來支持讓臺中能夠申請更多的經費來做相關人行道的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2162.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2184.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
謝謝黃委員的關心我想對於行人的安全的永續計畫本來就沒有政黨的差別那對於台中市是一個新興而且發展非常快的這個都市呢行人安全計畫裡面我們當然第一階段已經公布了相當多包括黃委員在你的選區裡面也相當多這個計畫那未來如果有需求的話我們用滾動式的方式會繼續增加這方面的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2185.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2212.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
目前為止行人安全的永續提升計畫大概就是交通部跟內政部尤其是我們的國土管理署為主所以我們要到地方政府來做會刊包括在校園的安全或是行人的安全或者是行人道上面的鋪面改善屬於硬體設備改善的部分都是由國土管理署跟我們台中市政府一起來合作來改善我們很希望在短期之內就達成這樣的目標像目前行政院已經核定全台灣大概有799處 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2213.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2219.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我想台中市的這個比例算相當的高尤其是六都裡面所以我們來繼續加油 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2220.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2249.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好部長謝謝也謝謝拜訪院長因為我想台中現在對第一個當然推動大宗運輸這在交通業務質詢的時候會來拜託也會來這個來要求但是這個交通大宗運輸做完之後大家最重要的就是所謂最後一里路怎麼走完怎麼從這個大宗運輸的節點走到他家裡面這個就需要很完善的這個道路安全行人安全系統當然台灣在這件事情上面這幾年開始關注那其他先進國家他做這件事情做了很多年那我們現在開始做 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2249.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2252.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
報告委員．剛剛部長所說的全國依照是路口799處．我已經要求他3個月內要完成半數 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2268.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2269.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
臨時提供幾個客觀數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2286.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2301.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我想這個全國六都包含新竹縣市的這個房價所得比我想逐年當然每年這個數字那如果我們從2023年Q4往前回推10年左右其實全國的房價所得比的這個比例上漲了非常非常多我想這也是一個客觀的事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2303.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2323.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那當然這個政府一直說要打房但我們也知道說政府做很多行動來打房但是我們可以看到真的房價越打越高啊那房價越打越高我們也看到說從這個當初的房地合一稅上路之後我們包含政府大家都期待說房價會因為房地合一稅上路之後能夠有明顯的下降但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2324.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2348.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
應該說不只下降,至少持平嘛,但是不只沒有持平啊,你看這個數字它的曲線圖它是快速的在成長。那其實我認為大家推動相關的政策本意利益都是良善的,但是我想今天為什麼打房會越打越高,我想提供觀點給院長跟部長來思考啊,就是到底有沒有需要去推動政策來打房。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2349.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2367.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
因為你打房我想最核心的問題是說你今天是在跟資本市場對坐當然理論上來講我們希望房子不應該是資本市場的玩具工具這是理論上但實際上台灣現狀社會裡面來講它的這個房價為什麼越打越高就是因為它我覺得變成某種程度上變成這個資本市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2368.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2372.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
在討論之前我想問一下部長跟院長除了打房之外除了去打壓房價之外還有什麼樣的政策角度可以解決房價問題你們覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2398.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2399.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
可以,兩位都可以回答。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2419.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2420.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2444.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2445.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
臨時提案委員：完整會議臨時提案委員：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2473.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2474.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
跟委員報告房價的高高低低很多因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2503.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2528.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
建築土地成本還有就是群聚形成科技園區高科技工業區等等他都有可能另外就是都會區的形成像台中都會區一形成之後就往都會區來集中沒錯我也很認為打是打不法我們打擊犯罪打擊毒品才叫打防他本身沒有罪所以我們應該證明此後我們就是打草防有草防的行為我們絕對打 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2530.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2548.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
但是房屋它的價值一方面是社會市場的成本一方面政府要用公共的政策來把它平抑下去而不是打房是打炒房好謝謝院長既然談到公共政策我要提出說除了打房之外因為房價現在就還是這個價格現階段所以政府的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2549.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2550.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
社會住宅數字來自於參考日本的數字,所以5%。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2572.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2589.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
．1、2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、36、37、39、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2589.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2613.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
在這個全國社會主體新辦的進度的這個狀況來講我今年初的時候那時候前院長在的時候我也問過這問題那只是唯一的跟動的標準是那時候是1月底那現在是5月31的這個數字到目前為止全國這實際這個中央來興建的社宅可以入住的3萬多戶我想這個比例跟本來預計的要達到這個12萬戶還是一定程度的這個差距那這個從 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2614.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2624.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個後來的2025年的2032年的社會住宅政策裡面我們放眼到這個現階段現在2024的過去的事情當然我們就檢討完但是我們現在放眼2025到2032目標要達到100萬戶100萬戶裡面有25萬戶那時候說要直接興建25萬戶要包租代管也50萬戶的租金補貼原先的政策是不是長這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2640.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2663.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
2025到2032我們的百萬租屋這個社會住宅政策確實是朝著三個方向就是直接興建社會住宅然後包租貸款還有租金補貼其中租金補貼的部分已經遠遠超過原來預期的目標這個我等一下會提到的確我覺得你這個租金補貼的目標放的有點太低了一點現在達到了好那我要提出說今年今天講這100萬戶的裡面25現在已經改了因為現在這個我想新總統上來之後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2666.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2691.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
把這個本來的百萬社宅目標改成了這個八年這個百萬租屋之家庭的支持計畫那我要跟部長也跟院長來提醒一件事情租屋是什麼意思其實一樣就會回到資本市場的問題今天你補貼民眾去租屋他的確解決他短期的問題啊但他這個租屋是他的房子去從哪裡來他去哪裡租他不是就是要跟人家買的房子租嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2692.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2710.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那你同時又推動了新清安政策,同時又推動了各項政策,那如果我是個有點資本的人,我當然去買房子,我繼續租給這些還買不起房子的人,因為反正他會拿政府的租屋補貼來補貼我房子的房貸,那我當然可以有失誤可能繼續買房啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2710.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2726.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以我今天要講的是說如果今天真的政府推動是百萬社宅是由政府來興建或者民間投資興建我當然支持但是如果用成豬補貼的話我想這跟社宅的定義會有一定程度的落差院長你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2727.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2745.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我來回應好不好。我想黃委員的這個觀察非常的正確。但是我們在過去一段時間以來是要解決剛剛進入我們的那個就業市場的年輕人。我們期待他租金補貼過了一段時間以後他可能家戶的這個經濟所的增加了就有可能去外面買一般的房子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2746.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2746.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
新建社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2767.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2795.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那如果直接興建社會住宅對於企業要未來要禁用新人或者是留住這些人的話其實幫助會非常大那同時呢未來我們興建社會住宅會朝著所謂的小造陣也就是說呢社會住宅的興建不要把它放在什麼山邊或是水邊非常偏僻的地方它是有個很好的一個生活的這個機能在所以朝著這個小造陣來發展的話呢興建社會住宅那它的社會功能性對於幫忙年輕族群進入社會呢幫助就會非常大 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2796.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2813.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以我們未來會多元跟多管齊下來來鼓勵企業界甚至內政部以外的其他部會比如說國防部也可以或是其他的單位一起來興建這個社會住宅部長謝謝我聽到了這個關鍵就其實過去在之前的這個質詢我也提過相關的概念就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2814.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2836.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
國現在的社會住宅基本上全都是由政府來興建,就包含說住住中心也好,各地方政府也好,都是由政府出資出土地來興建,但是明明住宅法裡面就有相關的這個鼓勵民間興辦,包含提供到底提供什麼獎勵,當然細節我覺得不可以跟大家一起來思考,但是我覺得的確你應該把這個壓力轉嫁出去給資本市場,就大家賺了這麼多錢, |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2837.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2863.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
大家到底要怎麼樣回饋給社會我想如果能夠讓民間鼓勵民間新辦那讓多數的國民還有權利能夠住得起房子這個住他不一定是買啊他可以長期的租租的情勢嘛那再透過政府的政策他有機會在年輕的時候在還沒有這個穩定財政的時候他能夠有地方能去處所以如果政府的這個這個新辦社出來使用的新辦社出來能夠鼓勵民間新辦是未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2865.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2888.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這個下一個階段社會住宅的新建的這個政策目標嗎?是,我想委員觀察得非常正確在住宅法第19條裡面確實有提到民間可以自行運用土地像譬如說新北市政府已經用BOT的方式在中和跟三重處理所謂的青年社會住宅所以未來台中市政府如果要朝著這方面來發展或是發揮的話我想我們站在內政部的立場一定會來鼓勵跟多多支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2890.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2918.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
謝謝委員的指教剛剛委員那個表格當中我們都看得出來我們在量還是不夠的量還提升但短期之內興建是一個方式但是用比較多的漁屋釋放出來讓他出租也是一個方式但是跟民間合作這個就是委員所提到我們未來要朝這個方向也需要一起來努力讓民間能夠來投入跟政府公司部門共同來合力我們才有辦法在一定的時間把量增加出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2919.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2938.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好,謝謝院長、謝謝部長。我想這個居住正義的問題就有提到,除了打之外,更重要的是讓人民有地方住。這才是這個政策最重要的核心,好不好?好,謝謝黃委員。謝謝院長。下一位請黃仁委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2954.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2963.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
有請我們左院長還有內政部長及園民會。來請左院長、內政部長、園民會主委請備詢。黃委員好。委員好。委員好。院長好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2980.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2999.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
在本席第一次跟你對話非常的榮幸當然這個也是跟全國的族人來跟你對話那我們就考究一下我們的歷史的脈絡在民進黨至今的 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3002.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3025.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
執政已經算第三次。臺灣原住民主的政民權、土地權、自治權三大訴求只完成不到二分之一。縱然民進黨在第一次取得政權後陳水扁總統及中華民國總統之尊以臺灣原住民簽訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3027.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3039.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
原住民主與臺灣政府新夥伴關係及原住民與臺灣政府新的夥伴關係再肯定協定及原住民主與臺灣這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3042.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3065.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
政府蔡英文執政之後以中華民國總統名義代表政府向原住民道歉並設置總統府原住民歷史正義與轉型正義委員會所以我念這一段就是要告訴給院長在過去我們很肯定的是陳水扁總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3067.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3084.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
到我們這個蔡英文總統針對我們的歷史正義來針對我們的原住民的定義已經釋出了一個善意跟肯定但後續的執行的這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3086.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3111.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
動作是非常緩慢所以我們原住民的證明權或是原住民的正義權或什麼土地權之類現在還不到二分之一所以今天我講這個就是我們在臺灣我必須要再肯定的是臺灣真正的臺灣的主人就是原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3112.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3140.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我們過去我們漢民主400年來牽涉到臺灣來但是有沒有尊重到我們真正臺灣的歷史跟原住民的定名是因為我們不斷的在這個時空背景在每一段的世紀裡面不斷的去爭取訴求歷史真相包含歷史還原給原住民的一個尊重這就是我們在過去到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3141.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3142.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
臨時提案時間。（6月25日 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3154.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3172.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
應該要給予我們肯定跟回歸歷史的真正的意義就在這裡那所以剛剛黃建豪一直談到的是社會主宰待會我要跟院長要談到社會主宰跟內政部我必須要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3172.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3197.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
內政部你們的回應跟社會住宅在全國裡面有沒有真正建蓋過原住民的專屬社會住宅今天我們不要被配給我們不要配給到配受原住民的社會住宅原因在哪裡第一我們有原住民的所謂的群組群組的文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3198.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3218.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
所以群組的文化是群聚在一起的文化,因為文化不同,如果被受到在所建蓋的社會住宅裡面,它就會被排擠,因為我們的文化不同,我們唱個唱歌,我們唱個我們16組的文化裡面,我們跳個舞, |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3221.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3244.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
然後各族群裡面去發揚它的文化歷史的時候,隔壁的因為它是漢民族,不了解我們的文化,我們總是被排擠。 在尊嚴上孩子在受教育的時候,在尊嚴上在自尊上都會受損。 我們去思考一下從這個角度,如果我們要培育我們的孩子,我們希望我們的孩子要得到什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3244.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3245.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
更好的教育。 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3246.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3247.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
謝謝委員我始終認為啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3265.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3292.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
原住民族曾經是臺灣這塊土地上唯一的主人你講得好就歷史上來看曾經是這塊土地上唯一的主人經過這麼多年來現在都是你我共同的家園我們共同讓他進步共同學習彼此的長處共同來彌補過去在這塊土地上造成的所有的不公平現在用種種的公共的政策我們來做更多的協助但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3293.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3295.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
好 院長你剛剛前面講的我非常認同你對原住民的歷史的肯定 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3322.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3337.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
但從蔡英文公告全世界包含全國公開的道歉你依你的現在的行政院院長的高度你也認為有沒有道歉這個這個含義 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3339.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3353.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
你願不願意在這個地方跟全國的國人的原住民道歉。蔡前總統以總統的身份在向原住民族表示那就是一種國家基本的態度跟政策。 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3354.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3354.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
好,希望能夠併進 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3382.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3407.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
因為原住民已經沒有時間再來一直訴求著就是說希望能改變我們的生活居住權包含土地土地的保障法希望是一直在陳述這樣的理由但是依你們的高度跟過去裡面對原住民的認同跟肯定跟懷疑歷史的時候也應該要並進進步推動我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3412.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3436.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
不分族群的生活條件包含他的教育環境跟居住環境應該要提升。 這就是我們一直訴求的地方。社會主宰今天我看到你的對原住民的政策裡面當然這個也包含了內政部長你們提供給行政院長的一個報告那這邊就提到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3439.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3464.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
看到你的在第13頁的部分雖然提到保障原住民主權利等內容且只有短短的六行的文字的帶過讓人看不出政府對原住民族人的重視現在針對這個院長的口頭報告內容以下有三點就叫我們的院長第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3465.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3488.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
2016 2016年蔡英文上任之後向原住民道歉請問院長你是否針對原住民土地及居住正義的問題在這個地方利用這個機會向原住民處人的道歉。第二在行政院院長施政報告中卻沒有談到如何落實原住民的居住正義可能內政部沒有給你報告這些項目。原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3489.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3496.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
我們把內容基礎正義的這個項目告訴給大家原住民現在面臨的問題在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3498.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3521.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
在原住民的住宅法裡面第二條第三項目的事業主管機關原民會應視原住民主教育及語言文化等傳承文這個發展還有會統主管機關就是內政部新辦或獎勵民間新辦專攻原住民成豬或社會住宅第二原住民主家庭自有住宅力 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3523.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3549.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
百分之七十六點六六,相對乃低於我國全體家庭的百分之九十點二二。第三,原鄉地區原住民自有住宅率約百分之九十,但都會區原住民自有住宅率僅百分之五十五左右,較一般家庭房屋自有率差距相當於百分之三十一到三十四。 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3552.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3579.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
就是在106年臺灣原住民主經濟狀況調查報告中差跡高達42%雖然以拉近差跡但整體來講房租及房貸乃是原住民主義最大的經濟負擔來源所以今天我們要講的你們過去推動的這個社會主宰是非常很多人在各縣市裡面我曾經在台中市擔任過世界的議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3583.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3608.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
當時對於產業經濟跟房地的衝擊如果你建蓋在它的產值最高的公高限值的土地裡面建蓋社會住宅很多人反對很多人反對因為什麼衝擊它的價格跟公高限值所以他們認為社會住宅就是一般百姓給百姓住的社會住宅可是到最後呢最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3609.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3626.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
人人都要社會住宅,不管他在哪一個黃色袋裡面金黃袋裡面,他的價格土地的價格在貴的地方蓋社會住宅沒有人反對,為什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3628.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3657.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
社會住宅所建構的環境也好,它周邊裡面的整個硬體設備都好,沒有影響它地方的土地產業的價格的提高。所以這就是我們目前全國需求社會住宅的要點、意義在這裡。但原住民的專屬社會住宅在哪裡?沒有。反觀我們在台中裡面有兩個地方, |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3659.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3683.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
兩個地方第一叫志強新村的原地重建第二是花東新村的原地重建在臺中一個霧峰一個太平當時很多人懷疑那個地方建蓋之後會怎麼樣建蓋之後是一個變成一個特色從胡志強到林佳龍到盧秀燕當時他們認為那個地方原地重建會衝擊到 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3684.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3689.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3708.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3736.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
然後遍地在各縣市裡面建蓋原住民的專屬社會住宅融合16屬裡面能夠有自主的生活文化的傳承包含他的這些教育都在裡面而且統一的照顧這就是我們社會要不要得正的行為以上部長我想請教一下有沒有有沒有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3738.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3760.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
來做一個特別預算,建蓋原住民的社會住宅。謝謝黃委員的指教。委員有提到,所謂的原住民的居住正義有兩種,一個就是在山上的。在山上原鄉部落的話,其實按照我們的國土計畫法,所謂的一生一次,或者按照國土功能,限地就可以完全有住宅使用。所以您剛剛提到的90%應該是根據國土計畫法推動的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3764.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3778.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
現在我不要講這些,我現在要講的有沒有必要用特別預算而且特別專案建蓋原住民的專屬社會住宅不要被配給有沒有必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3779.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3807.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
我先跟我委員回應一下第一個我們一定會來協助那這個呢您在推動的臺中市啊這個所謂的都會原住民裡面的專用社會住宅是臺中市政府在推動的那按照我們住宅法上面的目的事業主管機關也是我們在中央的原民會可以幫忙來推動沒關係我下次您聽我講完這樣你先提出你的細節的報告給我好不好還有原民會我今天我是饒過你一次因為你現在什麼都不懂希望你下次我在問你的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3808.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3829.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
報告委員在住宅法裡面規定目的事業主管機關必須依照這個原住民族的語言文化等等去興建社會住宅。這是原民會的權證。我現在講原住民的身分法我們評估組的回歸來暫停一下我的時間然後播放一下影片這個是民國111年的7月26日 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3832.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3850.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
憲法法庭這個月28日即將開庭,針對希拉雅族證明與納入平地原住民的案子進行釋憲,就有部分的原住民團體跟議員出面反對。憲法法庭這個月28日即將開庭,針對希拉雅族證明與納入平地原住民的案子進行釋憲,就有部分的原住民團體跟議員出面反對。憲法法庭這個月28日即將開庭,針對希拉雅族證明與納入平地原住民的案子進行釋憲,就有部分的原住民團體跟議員出面反對。憲法法庭這個月28日即將開庭,針對希拉雅族證明與納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3853.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3880.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
大量的童話、文化的融合在外觀上已經跟漢族群沒有任何差異我們認為他們在法律上欠缺保障的標的他們可以循這個正常的管道成立我們相關的這個事務單位這個平埔族的族群委員會那我想這個也不會排擠到現行的54萬原住民的所有的相關的權益未來相關制定的福利政策應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3882.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3891.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
要成民主的程序來進行才對而不是馬上就弄到憲法庭裡面有13個法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3892.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3914.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
來裁決一群來自臺南的希臘族人真的無法取得平地原住民身份提出行政訴訟跟議審認為與民法有違憲之餘申請釋憲但就怕資源已經夠少的平地原住民在加入平埔族群會稀釋資源造成不公原住民團體呼籲大法官應該先請聽法定16族原住民的聲音登記小孩子或是登記我的媳婦或是登記我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3915.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3916.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
反對他們進入,但是有謊話的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3934.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3934.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我希望這個委員組 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3966.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3967.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
好,謝謝黃委員好,謝謝院長下一位我們請盧憲一委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3998.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4023.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
主席有請院長跟原民會主委來請院長還有原民會主委備詢主委好院長好主委好莫拉克到現在即將邁入第15年 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4024.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4052.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
所以我們今天大概就是在針對我們莫拉克風災後的一些問題來質詢我們的新任的行政院長。就莫拉克來說,院長你的印象是什麼?就是一場吐露起來的非常大的颱風造成……我希望你是說它造成了680億人死亡。它造成了62億美金的損失。我希望這兩點牢牢記得。 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4054.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4076.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
摩拉克的意思是什麼意思?語意上面?摩拉克這三個字的意思?摩拉克這三個字是泰國化的綠寶石。那因為它造成這麼大的損害以後,它被永久除名,也就是說以後再沒有颱風會以摩拉克來命名。 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4077.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4099.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我們就簡單的回顧以後呢,我們來看現在的莫納克的災後重建的這個條例。大概在2009年然後到103年,一共5年的時間,它廢止了。那現在廢止的到現在已經將近10年的時間。那我們看它現在的一些檢討方案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4101.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4113.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我們的監察院在兩年前曾經提出檢討報告,非常厚的報告,不曉得行政院後來有沒有收到這份報告,我相信一定有。那我這邊,因為你是新任,所以我給你這一份新的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4132.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4137.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
這麼厚的一個檢討報告 我不知道相關單位有沒有想死的去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4138.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4138.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
（6月24日（6月25日（6月25日 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4168.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4175.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
不過絕大多數的設置的地方都是在第三個也就是說大概都已經都離開他原本生活的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4176.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4198.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那集體簽春的時候會造成很多我們現在可以看到的一些現象比如說他跟沒有辦法跟當地的文化或者是他原來的一些情感這些糾葛非常的造成現在你如果你到屏東會看到很多亂象在那邊我相信主委知道對不對對好 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4199.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4227.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那我最主要要講的就是說現在他那個品質就一一浮現因為當時在建造的時候他大概只用100天左右的時間來完成這些所謂的永久屋所以他沒有所謂的保固的一個問題那所以如果類似以後有這樣的一個那麼強的風災發生的時候如果還有永久屋的一個需求的話應該這個保固的應該列為他們以後在建造類似房子的一個非常重要的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4229.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4256.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
選項,因為當時沒有重視這個,你看那個臺東的大屋來看,你看它每一個房子幾乎都有呈現大小不一的一個非常嚴重的問題,而且是沒有人可以幫他們解決,因為它是永久屋嘛,它是已經給你保管,所以你等於是要自己去自費去處理,相關所有沒有這樣的經費去幫忙他們來,比如說排水溝的問題啦,屋內漏水的問題啦,這些諸如此類品質不良的問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4258.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4283.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
還有比較重要就是說這個三方契約當時的三方契約就是跟受災戶慈善團體跟縣市政府辦的一個三方契約不過這個三方契約非常的嚴苛不得處分不得出租也不得設定負擔不得在回原居地居住或建造房屋這個三方契約如果不檢討的話會衍生的問題會越來越多接下來我們再看下一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4287.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4306.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
上方契約的當然是一個美意不過他現在我們看到了世代傳承、人口繁衍、生活發展包括他的目的這些都沒有在當時的考量範圍裡面然後他必須在三個月之內當時要離開他原來的居住的地方那不得再回原居地 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4307.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4328 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
還有一個就是最重要,我認為最重要的就是它的土地是地方政府管有。 你看一下我們位在元寶地的有這些區域,比如說山梅、迦蘭這些,還有我們牡丹。 那在傳統領域的有萊籍的、山林的、里納里的這些,我相信主委大概都了解。 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4329.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4355.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我們是希望這個永久屋的土地所有權取得的這個問題,能夠聽當地民眾的真實需求,評估永久屋取得土地所有權的事法性,或者是研究其他可行的方案,不然他們在那裡到底是算什麼呢?又不能回主居地,那個土地又不是他的,又不能去所謂的陳租或者是說很多限制就對了,好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4356.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4375.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這麼多年了已經第15年我相信我們應該好好處理這個問題然後呢就是我們監察院竟然已經處理我們災後的人權促進會他的問題可是我們已經初刊了兩年了到現在還是沒有相關的一個配套措施來回應監察院的問題不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4380.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4405.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我跟委員報告這個永久屋會有永久屋是當時就是說設立他在平地蓋永久屋他原來的土地原來的房子還是他的就是說他這邊永久屋也有也有他的房子跟土地那麼原來的這個房屋讓他休養生息幾年幾十年之後他還是可以回去工作也好回去就是說去做一些檢疫的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4406.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4409.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
８三、6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。８三、6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。８三、6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。８ |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4436.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4456.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
還要跟主任再繼續我們繼續再來溝通好不好OK那我是希望他因為他是跨了七個縣市那我就看對院長的一個建議就是說能不能因為他是跨七個縣市能不能在最短的時間現在在行政院設立專案的辦公室因為總統他也因為他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4457.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4458.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
報告委員．行政院吳哲成前政委他已經就永久屋 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4476.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4491.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
政策來組織過專案的小組也開過歷次的會議做了一些重大的一些決定比如為了保障這個土地永久的使用它不能被列為法拍的一個標的物所以它不能透過這個行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4492.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4513.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
目前所遇到的現在所有的問題誰可以解決．比如說剛才說的排水溝的問題啦．內部設計不良的問題啊．還有它的引用水．還有它的那個冰藏的用地啊這些．如果大家都全部集中在縣市政府．我相信他們是沒有辦法來解決．一定要中央層級來處理這樣的一個問題原在歷年內政部也發布過莫納克颱風災 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4515.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4533.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
後民間興建正與住宅修繕補助作業的要點每戶補助10萬元那麼在111、112、113兩年補助的地方政府已經有637件這個有沒有實際上幫助到居在永久屋裡面的原住民的朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4533.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4535.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4560.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4562.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
一定有必要,不然我會持續做這個問題,好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4562.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4562.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4587.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4610.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那針對我們原住民淨法補償,謝謝昨天已經公佈法律了,我有看到公告。那本席想要確認的就是說,是他會壓縮到我們原有的預算嗎?還是行政院這邊要籌編預算,我只想知道這個答案。主委跟委員報告,那有關這個淨法補償現在是已經公佈了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4613.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4640.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
我們現在也在做概算的籌編當然我們是希望說我們有跟農業部這裡再怎麼樣就是說我們跟他們協調看怎麼樣在這個森林保育底下還有在這麼所有的這個保留地的林地有很多是跟我們這個農業部這裡有重疊的我們在想在提報一個中長城計畫是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4641.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4666.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
希望那個多出來的3萬塊、每公頃3萬塊能不能也在這個裡面來做處理。那總是就是我們希望我們會循程序來提報。那當然我們也希望就是說這個業裡面會給我們協助這樣子。因為公告就是明年要實施嘛。就是明年實施沒有問題。也不會打折扣。也沒有當書。也沒有附加條件。這是大家比較關心的問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4668.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4672.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
目前是沒有延後,就是我們會想窮盡一切的辦法為了照顧我們的族人受到限制,我們會提出一個辦法來,好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4692.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4707.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
最重要的個人在選舉期間的政見謝謝那針對我們原住民文化行政人才的養成我一再的在說明就是說目前的原住民的各個地區的民族文物館很多大概目前有156名是臨時人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4710.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4733.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我們重視原住民文化,我們認為原住民文化是世界的一個瑰寶,也是我們臺灣堪稱在世界上引以為傲的一個產業,可是相關的人才的培訓確實是沒有,而且都是我們剛剛都看都不是公務員,那如果說政府可以把它當作是一個很重要的一個類課的話,能不能就 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4735.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4737.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
這個跟委員報告我們會要求縣尤其是特別有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4750.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4752.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4779.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4779.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我們會請現項提報這考受提報這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4794.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4810.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
文化的這個切出來報告委員現行的原住民族特考裡面我們已經是有文化行政的對只考過一次只有一個人那個人經過世了人數比較少人數比較少那這個已經有開辦這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4811.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4812.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
他不僅僅是一個文化的一個載體他也可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4829.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4832.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4856.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4859.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4870.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4891.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
現在聚落是商戶嘛,定義為商戶,希望就針對泰雅族的部分不要以商戶為聚落,因為當然是整體來說商戶是可以達成,可是就泰雅族群來說,他的散居的個性,獨特性他沒有辦法商戶變成一個聚落,這個可以做調整,針對泰雅族群的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4893.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4920.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
第二、為辦理保存登記的如何取得建造使用執照。．第三、針對原住民受理使用住宅的時候．他不應該設落日條款。．因為我記得每次在國土計劃法的說明會的時候很像都有落日條款。我跟委員報告一下您剛所說的聚落的定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4937.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4943.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
好,謝謝謝謝陸委員,謝謝卓院長下一位我們請鄭天才委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4965.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4984.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
副院長,我們行政院院長,各部會首長,有請我們卓院長。來請卓院長備詢。卓院長,來喔。你好。你好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4987.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5016.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
好 這個非常謝謝這個進法原住民保留地進法補償條例在昨天在我們等了又等我也打了很多次電話到總統府終於公布事情謝謝好 我們看這個進法補償在104年12月18日立法院根據原住民立委的版本沒有行政院版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5017.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5041.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
三讀通過當時就是這個105年每公頃2萬塊106年開始每公頃3萬塊通過之後我們鄭文燦擔任桃園市市長的時候他馬上加碼他的理由是什麼呢因為臺灣省政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5043.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5067.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
從民國82年起進法補償每工刑就是兩萬塊．所以現在還是兩萬塊．太少了加碼四萬塊。．大家比較遺憾的是他當了副院長之後．且沒有去推動加碼的一個修法。．好我們看這個原住民族基本法21條． |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5070.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5096.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
政府或法令限制原住民族利用前向土地及自然資源的時候,也就是原住民族土地及自然資源的時候,受限制所生之損失應由該主管機關,該主管機關是誰呢?就是森林法限制了我們,水土保持法限制了我們的土地,我們只能造林,造林之後又不能砍伐拿去賣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5098.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5127.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
包括．計劃法．國土保安用地等等。．所以過去都．一開始的條文是由行政院來編列預算。．後來被修正為由聯名會。．事實上應該要依延期法．由各該主管機關來去編列預算。．今年爭取的進法補償的議程真的是很艱辛。．沒想到都還要表決。．而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5128.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5156.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
所有原住民的立委都有提案而且兩位民進黨的立委都有很多民進黨的立委像吳立法的有15位的民進黨的立委聯署陳委員的有19位的民進黨立委聯署所以如果加上國民黨民眾黨無黨籍差不多超過90位的立委支持結果還要表決 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5158.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5175.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
這表決的結果這些人也有連署的原來連署吳委員跟陳委員的都投反對票形同測案一樣所以這個部分是需要去檢視的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5177.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5204.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
重點我們一直在關心的就是我也在一再的跟行政院主席總處﹖包括延民會講的就是114年度如期實施而現在就要開始編列預算而且要編列額度外的新增預算。 院長這個不是延民會可以決定的。 院長是不是可以由額度外新增預算。 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5206.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5214.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
報告委員我現在在思考的是依照原民會今年的預算明年的概算他的規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5215.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5242.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我們用今年的預算跟明年概算來看它的規模現在用26億再加26億就是增加3萬元的補助用40%來執行單一政策之後對於所有將近60萬的原住民族朋友我們有什麼方式來普遍照顧他的權益目前我認為看起來是相當的困難現在預算的規模來看那預算規模能不能膨脹到多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5245.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5273.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
這個現在我無法來表示但是一個單一個部會的預算規模應該就是在現在概算的這個額定理和額度裡面的所以依照目前看起來未來只用在單一政策用40%一個部會的預算再加上他的法定支出只剩下大概10多%的預算百分之十幾的預算會用在全體的原住民族身上這個我現在是很傷腦筋的院長不必傷腦筋的 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5274.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5288.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
就是法律義務,這是最簡單的。 30年公務員,法律義務支出。 然後我剛有講了研究法21條,它不是應該只有延民會來編列,包括農業部。 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5291.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5315.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
甚至內政部都應該要編列。 這一個前提是我認為每一個部會都應該廣泛的照顧所有的政策。 單一政策用40%預算的這樣的例子前所未有真的是很傷腦筋。 這個法律不是新訂的。 但是比例的原則要顧及。 你要比例的話你就要以鄭文燦副院長當時的比例。 這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5319.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5340.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我們卓院長你的施政方針口頭報告在5月31號提出來的一、一憲法法庭判決競速完成原住民身份法的修法我要特別跟院長做一個非常審慎而且非常嚴肅的來去解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5345.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5370.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
111年10月28日現判制第17號,他現法判決有兩個途徑,一個途徑就是剛才你口頭施政方針報告裡面所提的修正原住民身份法,另外一個途徑是認定特別法,這個是必須我以下來讓這個院長能夠了解, |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5373.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5400.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
原住民族與平埔族群原來就互不隸屬了從清朝到日本到中華民國政府都是用首藩從過去的首藩、生藩、高砂族這個平埔族群都是這樣不同的法律不同的管理不同的管理好我們讓這個院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5403.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5429.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
省省等級評估希望能夠參考我的意見。 行政院在106年18月18號就提出了原住民身份法的修正案就是針對平埔族他特別在原住民身份法修正案我先跟院長報告原住民身份法是在陳水扁總統任內 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5431.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5454.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
第一年深度通過．我那時候是處長．我那時候是處長所炒你出來的。．好．這個行政院的106年8月18號的版本．平普原住民．增加了一個平普原住民．然後明定其民族權利另以法律定制。．原住民身份法． |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5457.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5469.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這個在106年9月22日送到立法院之後,立法院在106年10月11日、12月20日、12月21日、107年12月24日完成審查。 完成審查了。但是呢,從107年12月24日一直到 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5482.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5510.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
第九屆的立法院109年1月31日一年多的時間基於絕對多數的民進黨立委在立法院沒有把他列入在立法院的院會我們也沒有反對但是沒有讓他三讀通過為什麼呢?知識體大真的是知識體大 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5511.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5538.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
本席也把這段包括前面我講的在憲法法庭判決之前我也寫了信每一個大法官我都寄給他們讓他們了解知識體大所以才會有後來我的判斷沒有人大法官沒有告訴我我的判斷所以後來他們才會說可以修原住民身法 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5539.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5565.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
或者是另定專法。（6月25日（另定專法是有它的一個要去審慎的一個評估的地方。（6月25日（地方。（6月25日（所以因為時間的關係關係。（6月25日（我所謂的時間。（6月25日（憲法（憲法法庭所定的一個時間3年。（6月25日（到明年就3年了。（6月25日（所以要請嚴明會（6月25日（要請行政院加速的來擬定（6月25日（ |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5567.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5590.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我的建議是平埔族身份法,如果按照整個憲法的判決的條文內容各方面,他的理由各方面的話,應該是制定平埔族身份法是最恰當的,而且他的權利義務是另一法律定制。 院長可以朝這個方向嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5592.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5599.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
報告委員現在我們在程序過去的程序下來就是針對原住民身份法 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5602.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5629.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
請原民會繼續再跟各界做更多的溝通那麼也希望他能夠具體的有一個期限能夠拿出一些溝通之後對於這個修法的方向那目前的進度在這裡那至於說已經進行了什麼樣的溝通相信要由原民會來跟委員來報告一下那個這樣齁時間的關係我的建議啦我的建議就是趕快炒你炒 原民會趕快炒你炒案 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5630.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5659.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
然後跟各界溝通希望在今年現在是6月希望在今年的10月或11月能夠送到行政院讓給行政院一些空間時間來討論然後希望能夠在今年年底以前送到立法院為什麼呢因為明年只有半年的時間了 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5661.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5689.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
五月底以前必須三讀通過才能夠符合憲法法庭的一個時間。好,謝謝委員的指教,我們會照這樣的進度,我們現在也在跟這個,也跟專家寫者,我們現在在也就...好,加油,好,加油。好,院長的施政方針口頭報告在5月31日,裡面也提到政府也將落實原住民族基本法,背立原住民族自治的推動。 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5691.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5720.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
書面報告也提到建全原住民族土地法制（維護原住民族土地權益。（我要特別跟院長做詳細的說明。（中華民國憲法徵修條文第10條第12項（規定國家應依民族意願保障原住民族之地位及政治參與（並對其交易文化很多。（我們就談土地（土地（然後其辦法另於法律定制。（ |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5722.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5737.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
現在原住民族基本法就是根據憲法徵修條文第10條第12項來制定的,94年2月5日公布施行。 這裡面特別授權給行政院院長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5739.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5768.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
行政院為審議協調本法相關事務應設置推動委員會由行政院院長召集至這是非常重要的一個條文但是過去沒有善用這個條文我當副主委的時候常務副主委的時候都有善用這個條文把案子送給當時的院長去討論去通過推動我們原住民主基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5769.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5795.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
制定的法律。．好,這個我就舉例子。．研究法推動會第11次會議．111年8月28日．這個議程討論什麼．南島民主論壇推動情形報告．只要報告事項．而且跟研究法毫無關係．沒有．到底哪些法律還沒有．還沒有．還沒有制定．為什麼．應該要做毫無討論． |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5797.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5825.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
在112年9月13日也是一樣．一個報告事項．長期照顧．這個跟這個延期法什麼關係．類似像這樣的．好我現在這個讓．院長．包括各部會能夠瞭解一下．1722年．清朝康熙61年．劃設藩界．大清律例．法律．清國的．清朝的法律．大清律例． |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5826.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5853.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
明月借,人民是誰?清朝的人民。明月借入深番地,勢同出道入關塞。清朝的時候的臺灣地圖,從中國大陸看臺灣。好,牡丹社事件之前,日本為了要攻打牡丹社,他就說深番地是無主之地,深番地不是清朝的土地,他就打了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5855.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5856.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好,日本敗戰回到日本。 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5885.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5908.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
有沒有把土地帶回去日本沒有還在臺灣但是呢臺灣省政府在臺灣省政府在36年定了一個臺灣省土地全力清理辦法特別規定今前臺灣總督府依據土地調查及領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5911.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5937.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
不清理之結果﹖收歸公有之土地蓋不發還。﹖這是臺灣省政府1947年﹖民國三十幾六年。﹖這個臺灣總工府當時收歸官有的土地蓋不發還。﹖所以就繼續就變成國有土地了。﹖臺灣省山地保留地省政府定的民國49年。﹖化設了 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5941.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5965.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
三地保留地24萬公頃。（7、6年起（因為審議員（因為立法委員的建議（所以臺灣省政府根據行政規則（到現在還是用一個要點計畫（真化編原住民保留地（然後這個原住民保留地管理辦法（後來提升為中央的法規（ |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5968.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5995.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
原住民族中華民國的總統陳水扁總統在民國91年10月19日跟原住民族簽訂的協定這個協定就是條約為什麼呢依照條約締結法的規定條約協定就是條約的名稱當然我們還是回到法律我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5998.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6026.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
陳水扁總統的條約應該去落實。﹐原住民族基本法20條明定。﹐政府承認原住民族土地及自然資源的權利。﹐原住民族或原住民所有使用之土地、海域其回覆、其得處分、計劃、管理及利用等事項另以法律定之。﹐所以陳水扁總統任內開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6028.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6051.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
也就是本席擔任副主委的時候,草擬原住民族土地及海域法本席召開跨部會的會議,開了10次,10次,然後送到行政院我們當時的蘇貞昌院長不是交給負責人民會業務的林旺毅政委 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6052.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6079.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
是交給誰呢?．他考量說不要影響到公共政策．所謂的公共工程．我的判斷．交給當時的政務委員．行政院公共工程委員會的．吳哲成政務委員．來負責這個．審議這個．審查這個原住民族土地及海域法．本席親自去跟他做簡報．簡報完之後． |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6082.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6109.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我們吳哲成政委開了三天三夜當然每一天都是隔了一個禮拜隔了一個禮拜然後審查做了一個決定然後送到院會把原住民族土地及海域法行政院院會通過送到立法院很可惜送到立法院的時候已經借期不聯繫了所以就沒有審議然後馬英九總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6110.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6138.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
任內也送了兩次也都是一樣時間都是太晚了好蔡總統這個105年8月1號向原住民族道歉並且承諾會加快將原住民族自治法及原住民族土地夾黑法送請立法院審議但是這兩個法例這八年來都沒有送我們是非常的遺憾我要特別跟院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6139.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6155.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
還有各部會來報告說明我們從這個資料面積就可以知道不要擔心原住民族很寬宏的原住民保留地剛剛講24萬公頃經過增化編之後現在是26萬多公頃維持公有的百分之48.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6168.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6184.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
仍然維持公有的原住民保育地,還是各部會去管理的、去使用的還維持48.66%,施有的已經給原住民所有錢的51.34%,原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6190.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6214.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
原住民我自己用夠了就好了你政府機關你要用沒關係因為要做什麼使用沒關係所以不要擔心有了土海法是不是全台灣就不見了不會我要講這個數字就要讓院長跟各部會尤其是人民會你好好的說明這個數字數據很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6219.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6238.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
傳統文明已經化身了也生安無事啊所以讓院長這個讀法案法希望能夠以陳水扁總統當時所提出來的非常審慎所審議的為基礎你們可不可以再討論趕快送到立法院可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6246.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6274.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
報告委員,我相信委員也清楚,這個土愛法涉及的層面範圍非常的廣泛,所以才會數次在立法院裡面進進出出。但是據我所知,他還沒有真正進入到實質的討論,都是一個程序上的問題。那我想,園民會應該有一個新的想法,或是在廣收各界的意見之後,目前他有沒有更積極的態度,請園民會來報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6277.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6304.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
因為這個齁,跟我們還是要重啓這個,我們還要再徵刑我們的這個地方政府。 因為剛上任了齁,院長剛上任。我的一建議就是說,以陳水扁總統任內,第一個我開了十幾次會議,第二,吳哲成政委開了三天三夜,早起各部會喔,然後送到行政院會所審議出來的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6306.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6334.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
以這個做基礎．在很快的把它提送到行政院。．我的建議是這樣。．好,在下委員請教,謝謝。好,研究法第4條要實行原住民族自治。好,陳水扁總統任內提了92年跟96年提了兩次原住民族自治7法他是一個程式性的一個立法當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6336.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6343.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這個原住民的立委是不贊同因為他每一個每一組都要另外制定提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6344.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6369.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
自治法送到立法院．這是違反自治制度的一個立法例．所以就沒有通過．沒有審查了．然後滿一九總統．在99年10月8號提了原住民主自治法．然後103年12月18號．又提了一個原住民主自治暫行條例．內政委員會針對馬總統． |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6373.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6383.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
第一次提的,召開了三次的一個審查,很可惜沒有完成三讀。 然後後來104年又提了這個戰刑條例, |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6388.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6407.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
本席已經開始當立委了一百零四年已經最後一八屆的最後一年最後一年我們經過很多次的協商討論把它改為原住民主自治推動條例就我一個老公務員來講或是考量到整個各縣市的狀況而言 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6410.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6437.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
是可以參考這個我們立法院各黨團所討論的這個原住民自治制推動條例這個回去去參考本席的建議不要再花很多錢那個院長你看一下這個這張表嚴明會從105年對原住民自治制的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6439.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6466.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
一直到今年花了真的是非常非常多錢總共加起來三千六百三十九萬八千結果這八年來連送立法院一個草案都沒有所以這個部分真的是已經過去有經驗了本席擔任這個陳水扁總統我還是處長的時候我們草擬草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6468.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6494.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
各族群各縣市都討論過所以這個部分不要再花那麼多的一個經費這個我的建議就是說就是參考這個陳水扁總統的草案馬英九總統時代的草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6495.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6517.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
加上原住民立法委員．在立法院所．剛才所講的這個．原住民組自治推動條例．這三個來去．在座審慎的去討論．能夠提出行政院的一個自治法的草案。 院長可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6518.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6539.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
報告委員這個剛剛那個有類似的情況也是在立法院裡面經過很多次的進進出出這8年來沒有了對但是因為這個直接牽涉到現在地方政府很多行政權的權限行政權的話分還有這個地方參政權等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6539.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6539.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我再補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6565.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6590.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
這個原住民族自治推動條例馬英九時代這個部分當時孫大川主委參考了姚家文前院長的一個建議類似像國家公園這樣一個區域所以不影響到現行的地方自治 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6590.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6594.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
．6月25日．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6620.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6642.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
零四零三地震的重建,這個我曾﹐院長也許太忙,我曾經拿一封信給你,所以這個是一定要往這方向去進行,重建,你們這個當然院長還沒有上任之前,行政院所提的一個方案, |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6644.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6668.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
重建、重構貸款最高350萬這個利息補貼。 修繕是150萬利息補貼。 我要特別提到當然現在完全交給內政部其實是我認為是有是不足以解決這個問題。 一定要其他的部會來協助。 92125年前92125年前他訂了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6674.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6686.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
重建家園貸款信用保證業務處理要點所以這個就會包含銀行的參與怎麼樣去處理所以當時350萬到150萬利息補貼150萬以下是免息 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6699.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6726.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
二十五年前是這樣以當時的物價指數利率各方面所以現在的情況我們看這個當初就訂了然後後來修正都是一樣都是會讓他更好都是二十五年前的一個相關的這些處理要點所以我的建議一定要去解決這個問題所以要請院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6729.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6755.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
能夠指派政務委員、召集內政部、財政部﹖甚至經濟部相關的部會來去好好地討論﹖這樣的話才會能夠真正解決從0403地震重建或是重構這樣的一個方向好不好﹖ 可以嗎﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6756.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6782.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
報告委員整個0403的重建不僅是我本人來擔任這個小組的召集人我們會請工程會曾經的主委等統合因為很多牽涉他相關的業務也有跨部會的那包安內政部等等都會在你針對這些類似的問題做一個最終的處理那現在已經有部分已經在處理當中了我知道因為現在這個正在那個吧但是要重建或是要重構 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6784.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6806.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
是後續就會面臨到的問題,好不好?好,謝謝政委員。好,謝謝卓院長。下一位陳素月委員之質詢已書面提出,請行政院書面答覆,並列入紀錄刊登公報。下一位我們請吳麗華委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6822.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6826.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
謝謝主席。有請卓院長。卓院長請備詢。國務委員好。院長好。很高興在這邊見到您。我要先跟您說聲感謝。因為您在擔任黨主席的時候徵召我參選立委。我得以今天有機會站在這個地方,在這邊跟您說聲感謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6853.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6879.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
我會繼續努力那我要跟院長說明一下我先自我介紹我的族名叫做那我目前是被編定在魯凱族那我先是臺灣原住民再來是中華民國的國民我愛我的族人 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6879.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6881.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
你是熱愛中華民國臺灣的國家的主人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6898.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6920.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我們知道中國在21日召開了一個懲戒臺獨的記者會。 如果依照這個定義,我們大概有8成5的國人都會落入臺獨份子,而且有可能入罪,而且心生恐懼。 請教一下院長您的態度如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6924.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6943.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
委員你好,謝謝您中國大陸推出這22條的意見我想只要不是中共所定義的統一的話都可能被列為台獨所以應該是超過你剛所說的八成的人數不過我們要強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6945.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6961.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
北京當局對我國並沒有任何的司法管轄權他的法律、他的規範和包括他的22條的意見對於我們國人都沒有任何的這個拘束力 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6962.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6963.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
政府有責任保護所有國民的安全所以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6989.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7014.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
中華民國境內我們所有的國人當然受到政府最好的保障那我們有國人也會外出我希望拿中華民國護照的所有的國人去到每一個國家既然這本護照能夠在當地國自由的進出就應該得到當地國政府權利的保護中華民國國民持有這個護照的國民的人身安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7015.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7027.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
第三、如果我們要到中國大陸去旅遊去做各種的訪問或者工商的往來確實你要先注意到自己的安全能不能在你有效的管控底下 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7027.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7055.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
否則政府透過陸委會透過海基會能夠做的現在對方的態度是消極的所以我很希望國人能夠慎重的考慮啊慎重的考慮謝謝院長我此生還沒有踏入過中國的國土那我在這裡呢其實是要提到我們跟土地的關係其實原住民族跟土地的關係就跟母親的期待一樣真的是一個密不可分 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7056.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7066.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
那很多人很難理解原住民對土地的感情,像我們很著名的印第安酋長西雅圖,他的那一篇宣言,非常的感人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7067.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7096.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
他們跟土地就像家人一樣的感情我們排灣族也會說土地不會拒絕任何一顆種子泰雅族也會說土地是血山林是家所以很多人很難了解原住民跟土地的感情跟關係特別是昨天的下午總統賴清德他公布了這一次引起大家原住民族人高度重視的進法補償條例的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7097.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7114.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
院長是不是這代表著明年的1月1號開始我們就可以試用新的辦法報告委員剛剛我有答覆過我再跟委員報告一次我覺得從進法補償的這個金額從3萬調整到6萬整個金費從26億調到52億這個佔據原住民族今年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7122.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7127 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
明年會不會支持?是不是明年就會開始? |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7127 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7134.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
是,明年會不會適用這個新辦法? |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7134.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7139.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
是,那現在傷腦筋的是那如何用其他的再扣掉法定支出之外的剩下百分之十多? |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7140.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7142.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我們是不是可以確保這個心智上路? |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7171.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7194.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
這個是依法行政必須要做那就是依法行政嘛對不對那行政措施怎麼來處理我們會研究出來行政措施怎麼處理對一定是合法的依法行政謝謝院長其實我會這樣子講還有一個原因您看一下這則新聞這個是幾年前在台東縣議會爆發一個畸變有一位議員呢他直接提案刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7195.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7197.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
原民會撥補給原民處2200萬元的禁法補償金的追加預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7201.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7228.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那他的理由是什麼呢?他說漢人曾租國有地幾十年也拿不到所有權,原住民在保留地五年就可以取得。事實是什麼呢?幾十年來,原住民的土地沒有所有權,只有他向權利。因為政府制度的改變,讓我們在五年之後就可以被承認權利。也有人說,他說為什麼原住民考試可以加分?事實是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7229.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7244.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
外交官的孩子也可以加分。 僑生也可以加分。 科技人才子女也可以加分。 軍人身心障礙者都可以加分。 所以在這個地方我要特別提到在我們的聯合國原住民族的權利宣言在我們的原基法 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7244.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7260.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
其實政府是承認原住民族的土地跟自然資源,我們原本可以根據這一些政府承認原住民的固有主權,包括我們的狩獵、水源、溫泉、能源等等,來發展我們的社會組織、文化、經濟。 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7262.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7286.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
但是國家點滴式的福利餵養有意無意的擴大了社會的對立跟衝突我特別要在這邊跟院長說其實我們始終都很清楚原住民自治、原住民族的教育是我們擺脫國家社會福利補助污名的唯一途徑我很高興您在5月31日來這個地方做施政報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7287.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7303.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
您有提到說政府將落實原基法必立原住民族自治推動。您也有提到政府將逐步發展雙軌制的原住民族教育體系。我們來看一段影片因為您這段話跟我們的賴總統的政見一模一樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7304.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7310.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
賴清德講到原民自治,強調由下而上推動,首先就是確立部落公法人的法律地位。 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7327.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7342.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
2002年,我們前總統陳水扁正式的國家文件簽署了與原住民的新夥伴關係協定。2005年,我們有了原基法。2016年,前總統蔡英文代表國家跟原住民道歉。 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7343.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7358.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
2024年我們的賴總統宣布要推動原住民族由下而上的自治這個單位叫做部落公法人我要跟院長說明原基法有這樣的一個法源法條部落要設置部落會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7359.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7381.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
部落經原民會主管機關合定為公法人,但是院長你知道嗎?我們的部落會議目前具有法律效力,但是我們原民會合定認可的這些740個部落卻沒有公法人的地位。我要跟院長說明,推動部落公法人是原住民自治很重要的基礎。 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7382.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7392.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
先不要談自治沒有公法人我們不能談自治那我要跟您說明為什麼要推動部落公法人第一個以我們的雅尼 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7393.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7417.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
利益分享回饋金來講到底要存在哪裡沒有部落公法人只好找一個協會存在協會蘭嶼的核廢料補償金這麼多錢到底要存在哪裡沒有部落公法人只好設立一個基金會存起來但是這些協會這些基金會甚至是合作社公司難道可以代表部落全體嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7418.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7438.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
當我們的林業署在推動狩獵自主管理﹖我們到底要跟誰簽﹖我們還得成立一個獵人協會﹖然後由理事長來簽﹖我們的很多的法令﹖礦業法、水利法、再生能源條例等等都說要跟部落進行諮商﹖但是我們的那些利益分享到底我們要跟誰簽﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7440.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7466.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
真正要簽的是部落會議主席但是我們跟理事長簽跟鄉長簽跟很多的人簽就是部落主席不能簽因為他沒有法律地位我們部落辦的這些公共事務像文件站互助教保中心我們只好成立一個協會來承辦我們的部落公共事業有溫泉有地熱很多人要跟我們合作開發我們只能找一個合作公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7466.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7469.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7483.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7483.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我是想要跟院長說﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7500.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7500.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
（6月25日（ |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7522.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7548.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
傳統智慧創作保護我們未來也有生物多樣性的知識像那些保種計畫我們都會有權利我們都會有權利金甚至是未來的森林探會我們的森林驗證我們都沒有部落公法人可以處理我們不知道該怎麼辦所以我在這邊特別就是要拜託院長部落公法人我們的部落就會自主的發展成為一個自治學體 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7549.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7573.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
未來自治要怎麼走部落他要跟誰自治他的自治是像是什麼這個都不用政府煩惱但是一定要從部落公法人開始那我這邊有一個短短的影片這是一個老人家是一個國民黨的大佬做過校長鄉長議員他在過世的三天前他只教訓我一個任務請聽一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7584.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7587.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
院長,這個八十幾歲的老人家,國民黨的大佬, |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7599.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7621.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
他勉勵我只要做到這一項就好因為我們都很清楚知道要擺脫國家福利補助的汙名只能透過我們的自治跟我們的教育所以我希望院長可以責成原名會兩個月內第一個去處理部落公法人的設置條例法律未接那在這個之前希望可以擬定草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7622.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7622.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
（6月25日 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7637.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7666.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
報告委員很感動剛剛那段影片的那一句話我終於知道委員在這個工作上是一直會持續下去的您提到這個議題我想原民會一定會針對每個部落民族他的政經文化的差異人口多少的差異再跟大家積極的溝通謝謝院長那另外一個教育的問題我也覺得我今天一定希望能夠得到你的一個肯認因為您也說了政府也即將逐步推動雙軌的教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7667.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7694.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我們的賴總統也在他的政見當中很清楚的說明那我現在要跟您說其實原教法已經有法源說要做原住民族學校而且是由中央原住民的主管機關也就是原民會來規劃原住民族的學校的設立事項其實在2018年召開過公聽會2022年立法院也曾經排審但是重點末中一事沒有共識因為大家根本不知道原住民族學校是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7694.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7711.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
但是我們從聯合國的宣言我們可以看到所謂的原住民族學校就是以自己的語言和教學方法來提供教育我們看到這些年很多人都去紐西蘭去看毛利族怎麼做但是我們看到他們有了幼兒園的沉浸學校等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7711.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7739.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
可是我們的國家截至目前都是做半套我也曾經質詢過很多次要求要試辦但是到現在都沒有結果我要講的是其實有決心有什麼做不到我們來看一下教育部113年的預算編載我們的民族教育跟語言6.44億元民會113年編載我們這些語言7.12億我們的原住民族教育經費教育部法定預算64億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7741.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7769.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我想說的是我們難道沒有辦法做一個原住民族學校嗎?我希望呢我們的園民會我們就比照像這些科學園區設立的學校其實很簡單我也可以來協助那我很希望說一樣我們有一個示範點我們就開始來做因為我們是在跟時間賽跑我們現在還有老師學校的老師正式的教師還有辦法用自己的語言來進行雙語教學我希望至少我們來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7770.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7789.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
主委,您是臺灣族最多最多會講主語的老師,我們來做好不好?對,很好,我相信這個一定是賴總統非常棒的一個政績,那院長希望您一起來支持好不好?好,謝謝院長,謝謝主委好,謝謝吳委員骰帶的質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7799.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7804.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
也謝謝卓院長。報告院會休息15分鐘,休息之後繼續質詢,現在休息。 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8710.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8721.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
報告院會現在繼續開會報告院會我們現在議場二樓旁聽席的是港湖家長會的會長們我們在此表達對他們的歡迎現在繼續開會請林委員國程質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8760.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8786.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
好,謝謝主席。請行政院左院長,內政部劉部長備詢。您委員好。好,院長部長,我想辛苦了齁。不會。但是我特別一定要去強調, |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8788.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8811.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
本黨一向是秉持理性、務實、科學所以請你放心我不會吵架但是有一點我希望本席提出來的問題我們就會即時來對白我想院長當然一公一私我個人是尊重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8812.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8832.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
但是我也希望部長針對問題的時候特別要針對問題來回答本席因為我也第一個不吵架第二個針對問題所以我們是務實來對白謝謝委員其實我覺得質詢就像一面鏡子你看到的我就跟我看到的你一樣院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8834.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8855.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
我要你看一下我們全國你的八萬大金也就是警察的形象在這十年來喔所有公務人員當中形象最好的是警察完全被老百姓所承認 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8856.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8875.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
所以這個數據我就希望部長跟希望院長可以去看一下各類的公務人員過去警察是倒數的可是這10年來你們確確實實對警察的形象確實給老百姓 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8876.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8888.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
過去是又愛又恨很討厭警察但是又很需要警察但是現在是倒過來每一件事情都需要警察所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8888.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8918.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
第一個我還是要肯定行政院跟內政部對於這個部分的努力但是我今天要跟院長跟部長來探討的就是警察形象雖好但是他的心酸瞎人知所以這個我今天借重這次的執行要讓院長跟部長去了解他們的酸甜苦辣 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8919.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8938.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
所以院長或許你管不到這裡但是你一定要督導警察自強爭奪這個問題非常嚴重一定原因何在那計103年到112年他的統計總共有52個警員自強平均每一年5個 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8948.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8962.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
但是從一月份到現在我們警察治強已經8個這代表什麼?這代表雖然我們形象好但是在這個部分確確實實為什麼會治強這個部分會 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8969.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8995.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
所以院長這個是值得啊因為是你的八萬大軍其實臺灣很多的治安通通都是警察他貢獻良多你們只是做政策引導但是在這裡為什麼平均都五個現在一月到六月已經八個院長你知道什麼原因嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8998.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
9013.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
應該工作的壓力、家庭的因素甚至有經濟的考量等等還有個人對自己工作上未來的一些機會、升先都是造成他工作的壓力我想對員警我們都是非常的關懷 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
9014.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
9015.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
你也是從基層上來部長還是從基層上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
9042.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
9062.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
本席也是從基層上來,有時候看到警察他們的辛酸事,不是他們不做,而是他們的工作環雜已經到他們心靈無法承擔。來,一定,來,其實我為什麼今天要跟你探討這個問題,其實沒事發生, |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
9066.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
9088.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
院長只有講對一半每一次事情自強的發生都是調查起來只有三種一、經濟 二、家庭因素 三、暫停 感情 四所以 一定 不定 感覺好像七三行而已啊 不是欸 不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
9088.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
9117.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
所以我在這裡特別要院長去關心要部長去重視這個是非常重要的因為五個每年五個現在一月到六月已經八個那這個原因為什麼當然我們也承認新的警政署長張署長他一上任他從基層上來他就取消十幾項不必要的評評 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
9119.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
9146.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
這個也是一個減薪所以我希望院長在督導在關心部長在執行的時候要把這個放為重點是為什麼他會自強一個人的生命是可貴的那為什麼他會這樣他沒有辦法就像院長所講的精神壓力生命已經受到非常嚴重的沉重壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
9147.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
9167.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
不管是家庭也好不管是工作也好但是你們的報告裡面都是經濟家庭感情這一點只有答對一半工作壓力也有可能所以我要今天最主要是要跟院長提醒你要去重視這個問題那部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
9169.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
9169.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
拜託! |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
9192.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
9217.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我要傾聽部長,你針對這個要不要重視?我想您的觀察非常的正確,因為你本來就是非常關心警消的權益。在我上任之後,還有包括我們張榮興署長上任之後,真的是取消不必要的評比,減輕他們在工作上面不必要的壓力。我們都知道社會變遷確實造成很多多元的不同的壓力的來源,我想每一個行業都會有。 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
9217.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
9243.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
但是對我們警察同仁我們把他當成自己的兄弟姐妹所以呢我知道我們現在有關於心理這個輔導的機制只有80萬的時候我非常的訝異我今年已經提高到300萬明年希望提高到500萬而且不是所謂的只有內部裡面的什麼關老師這些我希望他們去找大醫院的這些身心健康的科的這個醫師可以用助診的方式可以用協助的方式而且去散佈在 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
9244.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
9244.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
你發現到這個問題我要拜託院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
9274.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
9288.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
真的你要支持內政部真的一定要去支持為什麼根據這些資料根據這些資料也就說全國防止自殺防止中心他的推估 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
9288.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
9289.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
律師律師 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
9309.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
9333.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
不夠的因為有一萬多個一萬多個我們可以去看看國外的警察他雖然他的業務繁重但是他是有業餘輔導時間喔所以這個就跟心靈有關係所以我要拜託在這個部分院長你要把他當成不要以為嚴謹一個字自強 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
9334.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
9359.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
是一個小事錯真的是一個大事那更何況為什麼我會提出這個執行最主要的原因是因為警察在這裡都沒有人替他發聲所以我要拜託院長在這個部分一萬多個需要去執行現在變成我們都沒有專業的人員你要用局長用隊長用長官去做這些輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
9360.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
9360.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
一、六） |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
9381.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
9409.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
我提出這個問題都沒有政治性的問題是你們自己的警察的這些人命關天的問題也讓警察覺得是在這個警察家庭裡面他是第一個雖然出勤但是他是受保障他是受關懷所以在這個部分部長真的是比較缺乏因為你們兩位也剛上任所以在這個部分長官非常重要如果在這個預算可以多撥一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
9411.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
9426.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
災害就會少一點所以我看今年尤其今年已經8件了8件了也有新的也有長官也有什麼所以這些東西不要粉飾太平的心態真的要正視這個問題我本席在這裡要建議第一個擴大這個部分的預算第二個輔導要有專業化 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
9438.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
9452.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
我不是自己長官啊他來輔導這個效果我們沒有朝這個方向那另外就是要做一個長期研究為什麼會這樣最後一個就是我們的工作能夠減少就減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
9453.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
9479.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
當然也不是說什麼都不做最起碼的話不必要的評比能撿就撿我相信現在的張署長他也很願意去聽這些事所以在這裡本期特別拜託院長多支持內政部拜託部長你要多關心我們這個前國的警察這個部分好不好報告委員剛剛部長講的那個我們擴大預算或增加諮詢機構的事情我會請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
9483.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
9497.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
請署長、各縣市的局長、分局長一直落職到基層下去,一定要完全來注意到這個事情。 是啦,鄉議員長你現在就很好啊,到拍手去慰問慰問,這個會鼓舞士氣啊,這個做法是對的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
9497.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
9498.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
9498.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
9524.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
過去很少那個行政院長很少去關心警政的問題但是雖然這是很重要但是院長只要是一個好聽話鼓舞我們的士氣這是很重要的我不是警戒但是我認為看到警察這樣是真的有必要有必要院長這裡支持部長這裡去關懷好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
9524.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
9525.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
好那另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
9526.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9547.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我利用這個小小的時間特別來跟部長研究臺北市中山區大灣北旦這個案子其實這個案子我要替這些住民跟院長投訴跟部長投訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9549.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9566.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這個不要變成這個歷史的共業啦,其實這是過去的政府他們的規劃不當而造成老百姓繼承事實的歷史共業,所以在這個部分有沒有可能據我了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9567.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9596.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
好 你說過去是柯文哲想要做 現在蔣萬安主要做 但是我們不要有政黨色彩嘛我跟你講老百姓也是你卓院長的子民啊 所以在這個部分有沒有好好的拜託部長拜託院長 不要有政治思考能不能在這個部分 因為善意的第三者是大灣北段的祝福 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9596.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9614.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
他要接受滑單他要接受這些折磨所以院長能不能在你的任內請我們劉部長在這個部分也就是我們內政部的國土署在審這個預算的時候不要有顏色只要問題來解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9615.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9632.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我也建議真的能夠中央跟地方把這個問題解決是老百姓受益所以這個部分部長我相信你也剛來但是沒有人送案子退案子已經將近四年 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9633.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9646.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
這是對臺北市大灣北段大直地區有1800多戶的這些住戶非常不公平,非常不公平是前任政府的錯誤來解決問題應該是在卓內閣卓院長的領導之下把這個問題來解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9652.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9682.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
那至於法令哪邊要怎麼做,中央政府跟地方政府要好好商討,把這個問題解決掉,因為為什麼?受益的是老百姓,好,受益的老百姓。 院長,這個事情本席已經跟你請命,那我也要拜託部長你把它當成這是一件事,所以希望我們中央政府跟地方政府好好的去商討,把一個圓滿把它解決,一六。 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9682.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9703.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我希望老百姓就是老百姓好不好這個拜託院長拜託部長一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9711.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9717.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
好,謝謝林委員。謝謝院長。下一位,我們請陳盈委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9741.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9751.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
麻煩請院長以及園民會主委我們請左院長備詢還有園民會主委備詢三國元豪 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9760.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9783.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
院長好,主委好。那在這個禁法補償,我們就是說目前禁法補償的這些面積呢,截至目前為止統計大概有7萬多公頃。其實這些土地呢,有很多其實是可以再進行其他的這個林業以及農業的利用。而且這些林業與農業的這個發展利用的價值呢, |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9789.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9803.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
很有可能其實是高於這個禁法補償的金額。 所以我特別以這個作為開場白是因為在我們這次禁法補償的修法之後大家又開始重視來討論這個林業經濟的這個問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9807.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9814.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
原住民的土地很多是在森林區,過去行政部會常常有提到零下經濟外還有林業經濟的問題,我們今天就要來談一談林業經濟。 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9821.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9839.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
可是呢在這個民國78年全面禁止采伐天然林之後呢加上民國80年的臺灣森林經營管理的方案政府已經倡導二三十年不砍樹那但是呢這完全不砍樹是真的是好事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9840.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9861.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我們有這個新的省思那林業署署長林華慶在2017年就曾經發表文章表示人工林的部分應該要適度的砍伐那過去那麼久的時間不砍樹導致我們林業的技術人才凋零那整個林業市場是萎縮的 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9862.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9885.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
臺灣現在林木的自給率只剩下百分之一點多所以林業署在兩年前有提出希望發展國產財的施政目標在2027年希望國內自給率可以達到百分之五在原住民保留地有相當的面積其實都是竹林 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9887.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9913.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
竹子其實它有100多種用途是相當好的相當棒的一個植物那竹子的部分呢林業署在兩年前呢它有推動這個新興竹產的新興竹產業發展計畫的這個10年中長城計畫就是希望發展臺灣的林業經濟所以森林完全不砍伐對森林的健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9916.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9939.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
當然前面的這個十年的這個中長城計畫其實對原住民是相當有幫助的因為畢竟我剛剛有提過我們其實元寶地很多相當的面積其實都是竹林所以我希望這個發展國產財不要再只是農業部的一個目標而已我們應該要有具體的規劃而且不單單只是主產業而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9940.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9964.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
希望說有個這個中長城的計畫振興整個林業經濟的市場我們開闢這個市場的需求提升相關的技術然後再結合這個森林的固碳造林獎勵還有淨法補償等等這些政策才能打造林業經濟再生產加工還有這個市場整個完整的一個產業鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9965.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9966.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
（6月25日（三、6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（ |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9981.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9986.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
10006.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
10009.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
10022.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
10043.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
因為只有農業部有這個專業可以來協助發展林業市場來提高這個林業技術那我想請教院長是不是我們今天在這邊可以請這個農業部好好來會同這個園民會來支持我這個想法然後提出一個期程一個看什麼樣的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
10044.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
10059.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我先報告一下委員,我想這個非常謝謝委員的指教那我目前正在跟農業部就這個剛才講這個方面是不是在林下經濟還有一些森林保育方面我們多做一些努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
10059.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
10060.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
８三、6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。８ |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
10082.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
10106.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我有提案但是呢我更希望在我們既有的補助之下額外在有限可以利用的部分土地之內我們額外再創造更多的經濟價值讓族人有更好的收入這是我的用意是那接下來呢我另外也要請這個內政部部長上台 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
10108.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
10118.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
相信院長在過去有去過好幾次的園鄉部落。 那我們最近一次我們也去了秀林鄉也去了新城鄉。 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
10121.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
10144.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
抱歉主委您可能也要留步一下雖然主要要問內政部但也請原民會主委這個問題要留意聽我們原鄉部落的生活其實非常純樸相當可愛經濟模式也相對單純在部落裡如果你穿梭在這個部落當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
10145.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
10162.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
每幾乎每一個部落你一定會看到小吃部啦麵攤啊特別小吃部還有那個10元的那個頭10元硬幣的那個卡OK吼那還有這個雜貨店吶吼那其實這個就是原鄉一個小小很可愛的經濟模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
10163.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
10190.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
院長你們千萬不要小看這個部落的小吃麵店因為這個麵店他可能照顧了就是長期在外工作的父母長期在外工作的這個但是孩子留在部落那放學回家沒有家長照顧他可能就會先去麵店吃晚餐那當然卡拉OK這更是我們不可或缺很重要的小吃部裡面一定都會有卡拉OK那這個卡拉OK |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
10191.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
10218.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
他竄起族人之間的這個情感但是更重要了他也舒緩了我們在工作所面臨的壓力還有委屈所以在這樣的一個可愛的原鄉的經濟模式呢在我們國土計劃法通過之後依照第11條的規定應該要照原基法第21條的規定定定了這個原住民族土地及海域管制規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
10219.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
10232.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
凡在105年5月1日前已經存在的建物,未來國土計劃法上路之後,土地都將變成了建築用地。解決原鄉長期建地不足的問題, |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
10236.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
10254.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
雖然說可以變成建地的目前只有限制在這個居住使用所以這些單純經營麵攤小吃店的原住民他們這些小店面可能就只是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
10255.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
10256.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
根據6月13日立法院內政委員會的報告, |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
10273.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
10288.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
賴清德總統2024年的競選政見總統希望尊重並依照原住民族的生活模式去制定原住民族土地使用的管制規則所謂的生活模式絕對不是只有居住這麼狹隘 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
10289.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
10313.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
當然包括我們原住民的文化更包括了我們原住民的經濟活動而且呢原住民的這個經濟活動呢不是只是停留在過去的狩獵採集而已剛剛我講的那些小吃店麵攤等等就是我們原鄉每個部落都會有的一個經濟模式那接下來呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
10314.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
10337.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
希望內政部跟原民會在討論原住民族土地使用管制規則的時候不要把這些純營業處所把它漏掉了這個相當重要讓這些土地能夠合法化讓它可以變成建築用地希望院長是不是可以來幫我們解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
10339.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
10350.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
好謝謝委員剛剛您說的這個麵攤小吃店雜貨店都很可能是我們政府在偏鄉地區還沒有觸及到的一些社會安全網的一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
10351.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
10351.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
10378.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
10405.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
原民會跟內政部將來都必須做跨部會的很多的聯繫所以接下來就是說原民會跟內政部在討論這些土地管制規則的時候呢也希望部長內政部長這邊可以多多幫忙幫我們來解決這些問題而不是就是說讓新的規劃消滅了部落族人的生計還有快樂的這個共同回憶那我做這樣子的請求 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
10407.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
10434.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
請部長回座我接下來就是說現在最後一個問題其實院長今天這個問題是我在這邊質詢的第四次那從這個兩年多前我就開始在推動這個政策已經歷經三位行政院長我希望這件事情可以在卓院長的手中完成畫下完美的據點就差您這麼臨門一腳 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
10437.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
10462.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
政府在歸還原住民土地的政策上有不斷的滾動檢討但是因為政府的規定限制了原保地的流通性導致我們就算有這個具有高經濟價值的原保地銀行仍不願意把我們的原保地視為一個擔保品所以我一直不斷的努力了非常久終於我們協調出一個完整的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
10463.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10473.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那請教一下圓明會這個規劃呢要請你們研擬這個貸款要點到底什麼時候可以完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10475.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10494.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
還需要你們還需要多久的時間謝謝謝謝委員我們在7月底應該就可以整個來把它就是說這個協商會議就是在一個月左右嗎是是是那因為報告院長這個不是找主委的麻煩不是他的錯啦因為這是我其實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10495.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10495.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
是﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10514.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10530.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
好,那今天那個在院長面前也做了這樣子的宣誓,我們要點7月底一定要申出來。好,再來,這個有必要再跟金融單位去處理一下,因為他們現在對於這個移產對象的限定, |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10531.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10547.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
以及市場價值的認定這兩個還是溫婕是所在我會請原民會跟我們金融單位能夠就這兩個貞潔來做比較有效率的因為其實當然一開始大家會有很多的疑慮跟考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10547.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10562.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
但是就是說因為這樣一個政策性的貸款在受信的過程其實他是完全依照這個銀行的機制所以儘管會他們是同意的那財政部呢也是支持的現在唯一差 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10563.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10587.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
一個單位就是這個公股銀行點頭承辦那在整個這個協調的這個過程其實臺銀都有參與那臺銀截至目前為止他們當然仍然維持一個不置可否只說可不可以多幾間銀行一起來承辦這句話透露了一個玄機表示他們不是不能辦而且還可以大家一起來辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10588.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10609.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
那只是說我覺得說這個公股銀行在配合政府政策之下應該要勇於認識當然我們現在因為現在所有的配套所有規定我們都規劃好了那但是就是說我們當然一個事辦現在是從事辦開始做所以我們找一家嘛沒有一下子找八家嘛因為萬一 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10610.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10627.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
大家都不願意好好試試看直接八家聯合說全部不行這樣我也是不樂於看到所以我們還是拜託台銀那今天就是說請院長開個金口是不是都已經在規劃好的前提那院長才是我們就從台銀開始承接這個業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10629.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10655.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
我會請主委積極的聯絡來關注來協助因為原民會他沒有辦法所以在經過長期的協調我只是在這邊特別再請這個院長可以出面開個金口這不然可能又下一次我又質詢說您是第4位第4任的這個院長了我想這件事情真的就是差台銀這個部分那我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10656.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10663.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
來示範一下吧,因為就從一間開始示範嘛。我們會來溝通來處理。好,謝謝院長。謝謝。謝謝委員。好,謝謝陳委員。好,謝謝卓院長。下一位我們請黃珊珊委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10683.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10709.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
現在主席我想請卓院長還有內政部劉部長卓院長還有劉部長請備詢黃委員好部長好跟院長好我想今天很重要的是我想我看到了卓院長昨天針對新清安貸款開了一個內部的會議是嗎是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10710.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10732.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
您上任大概一個月左右的時間,新青安貸款其實從去年8月到現在,他在我2月1號上任之後就一直在問這件事情。但是我很遺憾,當時不知道是不是因為看守內閣的關係,所以他們認為說新青安貸款沒有任何問題,而且不影響房市,因為佔的比例很小。院長,那你昨天為什麼要開會? |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10733.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10750.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
第一個信心跟貸款的補貼原意是非常好的幫助年輕人需要房子的人而且經過這段執行下來房價的高漲絕非是單一的元素這個我們都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10751.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10773.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
但是我們想說如果能夠排除一些現在心理的作用那也許從某些角度來看對政治的調整可以了解。所以院長我很讚賞你一上任就發現這個問題那這個問題在哪裡因為我們來自民間所以我大概簡單講今年5月交易動數達到2萬6千多而且這是10年來的新高所以跟我說沒有跟房市 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10775.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10801.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
吹房市長這是不可能的。（6月25日之前財政部說因為他佔的比例少但是我現在要告訴你說星星之火已經燎原。（6月25日這個燎原的狀況其實非常的嚴重。（6月25日為什麼現在的年輕人應該是某個媒體下了一個註解當政府一直打房一直希望能夠搞居住正義通過平均地點條例要打房但是打不過就加入他。（6月25日 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10802.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10826.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
讓年輕人買房子就成為討好年輕人的選票的方法。 這不是我講的,是一個媒體給現在的政府下的主張。﹖政策不是這樣的利益﹖利益原始不是這樣的﹖是,原來都不是,但是最後變成這樣。 現在的狀況就是,年輕人變成人頭。 我們大概看到的幾個問題,第一個,內政部、財政部、公益股銀行,他們的分工很清楚。 內政部給錢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10828.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10849.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
財政部定辦法交給公股銀行去租但是過程裡面沒有互相監控或者是互相瞭解對方的分工我這邊要跟院長直接說現在的問題就是新青安的年輕人第一他有非常多的銀行的話術告訴他不用把租金交給 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10850.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10850.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
（6月25日（ |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10871.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10897.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
院長這已經是不管是銀行業者重建業者還有所有的新的建商都在做一樣的事情第二個最嚴重的問題是這些年輕人他們知道這種狀況但是還是繼續投下去我們擔心寬卸期過了才是臺灣房市泡沫的開始您覺得呢部分在市場上的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10898.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10918.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
不動產的專家也看到了諸如此類的問題,讓我們一起各個部會來提出一些他們現在的作為跟未來的經濟,那這個是財政部跟公股銀行的事,我今天請部長上來,就是發現一個很嚴重的問題,其實他們在貸款之前要求這個要自主, |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10918.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10922.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我上次問財政部跟內政部的時候他們說有可能因為他們沒有勾結 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10946.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10972.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
部長,你有51萬戶的租金補貼戶,有沒有跟新清安貸款做勾結,開始做了沒?我們在還沒有進行檢討機制之前,確實發現這個缺點。是,他拿著租金補貼還拿著新清安貸款,所以我們為了要勾結,勾結出來的話可能會把他踢出新清安貸款。這就是我二月份問的事情,那時候發現這個問題,然後現在你們的方法是這樣,但是我現在看到比較好笑的是,又來了, |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10974.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10978.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
宮古宇航說我要開始讓他們寫切結。 院長你覺得切結有用嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10978.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10979.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
內容是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10979.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10983.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
切結就是說我保證我自助。 如果不是自助我就怎樣怎樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10983.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10995.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
將來可以避免在如果真正嚴重到需要進行法律的時候在這個糾紛當中訴訟當中也許切結出是一個有效的依據。 切結有效現在就簽了但是沒有人查切結就是無效。 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10995.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
11018.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
所以剛剛部長說的,勾結很重要。第二個,你有51萬戶的租金補貼戶,你還有包租代管戶,這些都是你可以直接勾結的對象。所以財政部不要再跟我說,工股銀行寫的切結就沒事了,現在要開始做這件事。第三個,這個問題就在於我們回到了,我們現在是不是居住正義做一半。 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
11019.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
11046.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
因為我們現在住宅法很清楚很可愛說因為當時為了要讓大家變成公益出租人所以讓大家你的齁租金補貼我不會把你拿去做所得稅的集合但是現在至少可以做新清安的查核吧﹖是﹖可以吧﹖可以第二個就是因為如此所以我們的政府是不是姑息或者是我們政府姑息大家希望大家不要來報稅所以房東現在都不報稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
11048.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
11059.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
大家在租房子的時候最痛苦的三件事第一件,不准設戶口第二件,不准報稅第三件,不准去領租金補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
11060.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
11082.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
劉副長,我上次在委員會的時候,你也承認目前的困境就是如此,對吧?是,但是我們後來有做一下檢討改進,包括你所說的不是只有租屋補貼,還有包括包租代管的業者,他們我要找他來商量,就是說未來要把他所謂的租金對外披露,至少資訊的揭露的話是可以根本知道,需要先處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
11082.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
11102.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我現在要跟院長說的就是臺灣是一個很奇怪的地方因為我們大家都希望有自己的房子有了自己的房子租出去就希望當包租公但不想繳稅所以房租黑市存在在臺灣已經幾十年這個狀況我們目前為止在相關內政部的統計我們大概是有98萬戶的成租人 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
11105.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
11130.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
大概總人口大概是260萬人如果再加上26萬個學生在外面租房子上學的其實我們全臺灣有將近300萬的租屋族也就是租房子過日子的人這300萬人他們能夠所謂申請到租金補貼的其實還是只是少部分如果沒有300萬人可是我們只有51萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
11131.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
11147.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
租金補貼還是有他必須要的條件我同意但是我的意思是說很多人還是拿不到租金補貼尤其是學生但是我們現在已經掌握到了大概有50萬到60萬筆是屬於租金補貼的部分我們有這麼多51萬筆是租金補貼有8萬戶是包租貸款這些有沒有做所謂的租務實價登錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
11156.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
11183.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
目前為主我們大概會要用勾結的方式來處理。（對,所以還是一樣（那個黃委員我想都知道（如果我們要做資訊揭露的話（我們還是要依照法令上（否則會違反政府資訊公開法或是個人隱私法（所以我們現在在4月19號的時候呢（已經邀集地方政府跟產業工會來召開這個會議（那我們所根據的法源就是所謂的租賃市場（租賃住宅市場（沒關係你要有法源還可以再幫你加一條法源啊（ |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
11184.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
11184.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
委員長． |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
11215.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
11232.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
臺灣是租屋黑市還是占一大半的地方有非常多的年輕人在臺北求學他可能永遠不可能去申請而且他可能只租了幾年這幾年就是我們現在大家看不到的地方租屋是黑市所以他就藏在陰影裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
11233.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
11259.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
然後不准你報這個不准你報那個他也享受不到他所居住城市的社會福利因為他永遠沒辦法入戶口這個問題我認為只要先把租實價登錄的制度慢慢的建立我沒有要求你一下子建立你租金補貼的對象可以拿來做實價登錄你包代管業者也可以做實價登錄接下來才是要求一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
11260.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
11283.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
防東將來如果實價登錄我們給他什麼樣子的租稅的赦免也許是一個方式我沒有定見我希望開始朝租屋實價登錄的方向邁進部長可以吧至少你上任之後我相信你一定有這個野心是謝謝黃委員的關心我剛有提到先把資訊透明化是把它做到那一定要有一定的法源資料都在你手上 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
11284.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
11306.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
怎麼法院讓他能夠至少看一看,是,所以要立法,所以要訂出相關的規範。我沒有意見,我的意思是說,我希望一個月之內,針對這些您剛剛所說的方案,也可以給我一個書面的回應。可不可以多給我們一點時間,因為一個月之內的話,我們院會還不開。好,兩個月,至少下個會期前,我會再問同樣的問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
11308.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
11325.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
接下來其實我們今天大家都很關心警消我今天要問的是人力的問題院長我們大家都從地方來我們大概都知道警消的業務很重然後今年你看一年半以來已經有八個殉職的警消了 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
11326.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
11352.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
這八個遜職的錦霄每一次發生事情我們就開始檢討但是我們檢討完畢之後發現其實有很多很多的問題裝備也好訓練也好那其實還有很大的問題是人力不足這個人力不足目前為止之前也做過非常多的檢討然後地方政府每一次都說我人不夠我人不夠人為什麼不夠各位可以看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11353.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11366.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
我們在107年就做了一個檢討。我們在112年要達到一比一千三,現在是113年,請問部長你達到了沒有?沒有,原因是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11367.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11391.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我們在補足這個消防人力尤其是專業人力上面速度比較慢。速度太慢不是比較慢是很慢因為1300是一個基本的標準117年要到1100但是院長我現在要跟你直接說從國際的標準這個還是差的不行日本1比760韓國1比774新加坡多一點1比925 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11397.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11415.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
只有我們現在還在1300 這個比例不要說我們跟其他的城市旁邊你一定的先進國家我們不應該輸給他加上我們少子化高齡化將來的消防更是重要重中之重所以這個比例你可以看得出來很特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11418.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11441.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這個六都也很懸殊。不知道為什麼,大概只有臺北跟桃園還在1300多,其他都是1500以上。部長,什麼時候做得到?113年沒做到,你什麼時候要做到?我覺得我沒有辦法馬上回應黃委員所說的部分,因為我們要補足這個專業的消防能力。 我知道,所以我們希望能夠盡量在至少一年之內1300先到吧。 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11442.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11467.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我們盡量朝這個方向來努力,因為他必須要經過考試資格才能成為真正的專業消防人力。 我知道,這就是問題是我們是不是要在人力禁用的過程中再增加一些彈性,或者是再增加一些訓練的方式,讓他有人力補足的機會。 黃委員講得非常正確,我們已經跟考試院做過這方面的協商,未來再進行考試的時候,所以其實很多人想考都考不上。 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11468.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11468.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11486.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11506.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我始終認為這是一個文明的指標,我會請內政部全力去做,我們那天到新竹看罹難的這個警消,我們就跟他講說考用制度必須要嚴格的再做一個檢討,讓更多的人能夠投入。最後我要問這個問題,這個大概也是我最重要的一個問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11508.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11536.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
院長你當過臺北市的立委你對社子島應該還比我還熟悉那最重要的是我們已經在4年內完成了非常多的程序短短4年107年我們完成了西部計畫、都市計畫跟相關的報部甚至二階段環評但是所謂的開發範圍跟底價地的比例從109年6月送到中央內政部到今天為止4年了還沒審上個禮拜開過一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11538.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11560.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
說明會,然後也有很多人來抗議,我都領先,我的意思是說部長,四年了不能再拖了,其他的程序沒有人超過跑四年,民國59年到現在限制開發,我58年次,所以他已經54年了,多久?還要等多久?還要等多久?我只想問部長這個問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11561.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11579.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
好,謝謝委員的關心,我們上個禮拜開會的時候確實的要求臺北市政府啊,臺北市政府已經溝通溝通再溝通,現在98%的民眾同意,剩下2%可能有意見,你怎麼跟他溝通都沒有用的情況下,但是剔除的範圍也都已經跟報部也都說明了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11580.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11602.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
部長,我希望要溝通可以多少時間?再給我們一點時間,像比如說我也要拜訪臺北市長。我再問你一個,你會不會像林佑昌一樣,又開始說我要弄輕軌弄這個弄那個,然後把這個案子耽誤?我了解都市計畫的審議程序,所以我要跟國會報告。那你不會再像林佑昌說又跑去跟人家講東講西,然後又不知道這個案子會不會繼續過嗎?到目前為止我沒有講東講西啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11613.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11631.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
謝謝黃委員謝謝卓院長八院會現在在議場二樓的貴賓是澳洲新南威爾斯州議會的代表團我們在此掌聲歡迎接下來我們請張志倫委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11655.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11667.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
好,謝謝主席、各位委員、各位官員、大家午安。 是不是有請這個行政院卓院長還有我們內政部、我們劉部長,謝謝。請卓院長還有劉部長備詢。張委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11675.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11691.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
好,院長好,又見面了,一個禮拜見兩次,還是要首先,這是非常辛苦,這兩個禮拜非常辛苦。好,那我要首先跟院長報告,這個院長我是來自新北中和,那新北市是一個很特別的城市,幅員廣大,有400多萬人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11692.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11710.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
中和也是一個非常有人文特色的一個城市我們中和有40萬人中和就佔了新北市十分之一的人口可是它的面積大概只有新北市的百分之一所以它是地狹人稠 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11711.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11735.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
未來還是要拜託這個院長跟部長有關於新北市的建設以及交通問題要拜託院長跟部長多多來關心那第一個我還是要拜託院長的部分新北市中和過去長期以來有很多一些建設緩慢的一個部分要拜託院長來協助尤其我相信那個部長當時李永昌部長也非常答應我就是說我們這個中和有40多萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11736.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11758.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那從這個污水下水道我們所有民眾非常關心的從9393年開始建設污水下水道到現在113年我們這個南四角地區有10萬的鄉親目前還沒有連接污水下水道所以從這個林後昌部長到現在劉部長我也要拜託這個我們現在已經積極努力來興建污水下水道 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11758.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11778.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那比較可惜的是這個是中央跟地方一起來合作﹖過去是由這個內政部來主導來興建那現在是請委託新北市水利局來整個來發包然後由內政部來出錢來協助可是現在因為中央地方我希望第一個還是要溝通的清楚因為本來發包的時間是在這個在113年6月 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11781.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11808.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
也是這個月可是可能現在會延長到113年的7月那總共分第三階段分4個時期的標案整個標案的時間可能會長達10年才能完工所以這個我很難跟我們綜合區的鄉親來交代所以我現在一直積極努力來去讓他的速度來去加快去做推動那現在目前來講大家可以看到這個圖我們的第一標第一標他是屬於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11812.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11839.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
這個紅色的部分那當時我一開始的時候我就跟李厚昌部長講說第一標它的這個顏色、形狀怎麼很像斧頭一樣啊怎麼不跟這個第三標合在一起後來他們說委員不好意思你講得很對可是因為我們已經發包準備要發包了所以現在第一標就只能趕快來去承包了所以這才是造成整個所有的興建完成長達要十年的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11840.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11864.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
那我希望說現在第一標現在已經延長到7月底才會發包那是不是二、三、四標我們可以一起來未來有機會一起來發包然後來讓整個時程現在未來現在聽說這個內政部跟水利局現在預計是7年可以完工請問一下這個部長跟院長有沒有信心可以在7年內完工 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11865.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11891.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
報告委員我想你非常了解這個污水下水道系統要建設的時候其實要跟居民做很好的溝通因為要挖路也許要牽涉到住宅區裡面可能要有一些翻洞所以為什麼時間拉長主要應該不是工程的難度所以要整合的話我們大概會很尊重原來的新北市政府他們在協調你要分三期或是三期要一起推動因為這個案子我們工程經費總共73億那中央已經答應補助60億所以原則上這樣子的規劃並沒有改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11895.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11923.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
那如果你時程要縮短的話,假設工期可以配得上地方居民或者新北市的進度的話,我們願意來努力配合。好,這一點我覺得相當重要,因為南市角剛剛講的這個地狹人稠有非常多的特色,比如說,院長不曉得你有沒有去杭羅爹,杭羅爹過?有嘛,去拜拜嘛,拜土地公。所以南市角有非常多的鄉親,有我們的杭羅爹,新南夜市,華新街,等等這些東西,真的居住非常多的人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11923.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11926.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
．6月25日．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11941.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11960.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
消防的問題我們都不希望說有這個火神的這個眼淚再度的發生那第二個也是講的我們過去中和缺乏剛剛第一個講到的是污水下水道第二個就是我們中和有四區可是我們的東邊的秀安區也住了10萬人可是秀安區長期以來就沒有消防分隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11960.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11962.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
（6月25日．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11980.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11999.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
要出勤745次救護每年出勤8196次緊急救護出勤364次總共一年的出勤要高達9000多次讓我們南市分隊就是因為我們秀安區的消防分隊他過去一直缺乏 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
12000.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
12021.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
現在有個好消息就是我們現在這個在中和有個秀郎橋北側的重劃區他現在有規劃了一個消防分隊就是秀安消防分隊來服務10萬我們的中和鄉親不過他現在預計要蓋好的時程將近要5年以上所以還有5年的時間我們所有男士角的消防同仁會非常的辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
12022.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
12051.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
所以我們現在也提出來過去長期的一個想法就是我們在這個秀朗橋頭有一個現在的憲兵指揮中心那個地方可以來做一個臨時的消防分隊那我跟林德福委員其實有去會刊過了那現在目前因為現在那塊地是憲兵國防部在使用他們說只能提供兩年的時間給這個消防分隊來做可是剛剛跟這個院長跟部長報告過新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
12051.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
12075.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
消防分隊新的消防分局要5年才能蓋好所以是不是請院長跟部長你們是不是認為因為他那個國防是用來做人才招募的一個動作是不是兩位長官認為說消防救災的需求是不是高於這個國防部現在的需求你們是不是也贊成這樣的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
12076.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
12087.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
感謝張委員的關心我馬上來協調因為這件事情非常的重要我們希望我們的消防同仁有一個暫時的安住所可以安心來服務我們秀山這個整個地區的人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
12088.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
12116.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
好,非常感謝。今天院長跟部長非常從善如流,非常感謝。請問兩個事情我們就大家一起積極來推動。那第三個其實也是我跟這個部長那時候來我辦公室大家來聊天拜訪的時候我跟部長講就是說社會住宅我相信是未來台灣大家積極推動的一個非常重要的這個政策。那中和現在從過去到現在以及在興建當中會有10個社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
12116.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
12136.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
十個社會住宅我相信我們都希望說我們全民都來歡迎這個社會住宅到我們的所有的周邊可是我當時跟部長報告說社會住宅在設立的時候應該是要一個是友善的友善鄰居的一個措施所以拜託院長跟部長未來社宅未來有三個它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
12138.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
12163.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
這個設施應該要去做第一個友善我們所有的長輩長照日照要來新建第二個友善我們的所有小朋友所以托嬰托幼要來徵社第三個共享空間讓所有里民們都可以來使用或者是我們說的創客中心所以請教一下這個部長跟院長你們認為未來在建社宅的時候這三個這幾個東西是不是應該是要一個標配 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
12165.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
12178.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
讓所有我們的鄰居如果未來有需要蓋旁邊有蓋社會住宅的時候大家是歡迎社會住宅的而不是認為說社會住宅造成周邊的一些交通或是人口的堵塞你們未來有沒有考慮說設一個標準或一個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
12182.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
12198.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
讓這個社會住宅在蓋的時候會有一些配套的一些周邊的一些設施比如說剛剛講的這個長照日照中心、拖曳拖曳中心或者是一些共享空間或者是一些創客中心是不是應該頒布一個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
12199.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
12225.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
報告委員我想我在這個辦公室裡面跟您說明非常清楚社宅的設立裡面的公共設施本來就是公益性必要性所以未來有社宅的時候包括你所說的長照拖曳或者是其他的跟公益性有關的話在社區同意的狀況之下一定會把它當成標配來處理那同時我們也會朝著未來的社宅如果有願意民間企業願意來協助的話我們也願意協助用住宅法的方式來幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
12226.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
12227.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
12243.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
12265.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
好那請問一下部長未來是不是有一個設立的標準比如說為什麼這個社宅他就只有做日照長照有些就沒有有些有做拖音拖友有些就沒有沒有他是有一定的比例譬如說你有多高或是多大的比例上面有多大的評數的話就是按照他社宅設置的時候能夠提供多少公共空間那通常我們都會要求說地方政府必須要跟民意代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
12265.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
12268.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
12279.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
12299.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
好,就是希望說未來,就是剛剛部長講的,就第一個要傾聽民意嘛,然後第二個當然是需要說有一套標準,不然就是說有些人的想法跟意見可能就會沒有被聽到好不好,就是未來盡量設一個標準好不好,不然大家有些人就搶來搶去,也不一定是好事喔,好那第四個就是要請教就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
12300.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
12326.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
最近這個內政委員會有在調這個數位身份證的一個部分那數位身份證的部分我知道這個一直本席一直有在追這一塊那也請教我們的部長跟院長這個當時當然知道大家知道說調資料的時候有發現這個整份全黑的部分那我相信說這整份全黑的部分當然我們需要說未來的資料還是可以更加的透 公開透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
12327.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
12350.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
可是就是這個是過去這個我們賴清德當行政院長的一個這個政策那未來這個政策我們應該要怎麼去做因為大家都知道這個政策當時這個賴清德當這個院長的時候通過了這個是34億的一整個標案那也劃人民13億那當時因為這個行政院版3736的這個函 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
12353.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
12371.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
內容是說因為有大陸資安的一個問題所以是不是請教這個今天院長跟這個部長到底大陸資安問題未來能不能解決第二個相關的配套的法令是不是應該要來修比如說我們講的戶籍法或者是這個個人資訊安全法 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
12371.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
12393.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
這些等等的是不是應該要來修正那這樣不然的話本席其實在內政委員會我有一頭霧水如果這樣子不去做的話每年還要付高達6000多萬的維護費那這樣子的話每年都是浪費你的明年納稅錢所以今天是不是拜託不要有點時間拜託院長跟部長應該有做一些討論跟研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
12394.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
12394.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
麻煩部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12416.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12441.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
謝謝委員我想委員您大概數字上我稍微跟您更正一下不是14億是10.85億因為當時也牽涉到沒有執行的話那大概就是預算就不會執行下去然後那個我想大家都知道當時是在我們立法院裡面或是行政院有一個共識會覺得說資安問題嚴重嚴重的部分就是說我們很多個人的身份證裡面的資料的話可能會外洩那我們在委託外面的處理的時候也查查到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12443.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12459.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
外面的有一些法律諮詢顧問公司他可能也身兼在中國大陸有這些律師資格那時候我們就非常嚴格要求說要先查出來這樣有沒有問題那後來在執行的過程當中我們發現法令不足尤其是資安法令譬如說個人資料保護法還沒有出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12460.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12489.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
現在我們的檢討之後現在行政院已經有個人資料保護委員會再來就是相關資料的問題包括數位部他成立之後跟數位相關的這些資安的問題希望數位部可以協助把相關的這個資安的法律健全之後我們再來考慮要不要繼續推動再來就是所謂的調閱委員會我想委員非常知道調閱委員會經過兩次內政委員會來商量之後已經延到7月16 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12490.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12511.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
媒體上面都會說內政部遮影資料完全沒有應該是說我們在委託中央印製廠跟廠商他們的技術服務資料那由中央印製廠本於他們的權責來決定說這個是屬於個人資料保護法政府資訊公開法或者是商業法規裡面所說的商業法律由他們來做遮蔽那經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12513.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12513.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
好謝謝部長的解釋有時間的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12529.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12544.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那有沒有一個期程到底數位身份證因為上次你講的是因為資安問題不起應該是不考慮重啟那你現在的想法還是一樣嗎還是說你未來像已經了解這麼多了以後有沒有一個重啟的時間不然的話每年花6千多萬的這個維護費 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12544.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12559.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
因為我們社會上還沒有取得共識之前因為治安確實是一個很大的問題再加上委員看看最近的兩岸關係的狀況我覺得更要非常的謹慎來因應這個部分否則全台灣的人身份證的資料洩漏出去這個才是真正最大的國安問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12560.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12560.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
謝謝張委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12588.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12598.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
謝謝左院長。我們報告院會上午的質詢到此為止,下午1時50分處理臨時提案,下午2時30分繼續進行內政組質詢,現在休息。 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
19212.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
19222.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
報告院會現在繼續開會處理臨時提案每位委員發言時間一分鐘請廖委員先想發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
19243.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
19263.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
主席以及各位委員大家好那國營台鐵股份有限公司於民國104年至113年辦理臺鐵整體購置及貸換車輛計劃貸換超過最低使用年限之臺鐵列車然而自明年開始將會有300餘輛列車已遇最低使用年限116年開始高達700餘輛 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
19266.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
19288.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
都會打到最低使用年限但目前皆沒有相關汰除計畫考量到本期的購置及汰換車輛計畫耗時10年因此無論是提升搭乘體驗或是未來可能無零件汰換的情況影響到車輛檢修及行車安全皆有必要立即啟動新一期的購置及汰換車輛計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
19290.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
19297.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
原此請國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司應於一個月之內啟動新一輪臺鐵整體購置及貸換車輛之評估計畫。 是否有當請公決案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
19308.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
19320.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
本院委員廖先祥等13人提案,作如下決議,含請行政院嚴處,請問院會有無異議,無異議通過。接下來請李委員驗秀發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
19327.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
19328.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
19348.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
19353.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
19378.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
19391.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
本院委員李燕秀等17人提案,作如下決議,含請行政院嚴處,請問院會有異議,無異議通過。下一位請王委員正續發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
19411.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
19429.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
好,謝謝主席。本院委員王振旭、莊瑞雄、吳立華等4人有鑒於學童勢力不良率偏高,為有效降低學童近視盛行率,原提案建請教育部召開跨部會研商會議並擬定具體方案以保障學童勢力。根據衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
19429.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
19451.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
調查結果近視正行率幼兒園大班為9%,國小六年級為70%,到了國中三年級高達89.3%,為達成勢力保健之具體目標原提案,建請教育部應召開會同會務部於本年8月前北東南東各分區召開延長會議,邀請地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
19452.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
19475.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
教育局、衛生局以及教師代表、家長代表必要時的加邀學生代表另外考量學童私立保健涉及醫療專業研商會議需邀請眼科專科醫師、眼光師等相關領域之團體代表及專家學者出席教育部應於本年9月會診提出相關之具體方案並落實至全國各級學校數位有當。 敬請公告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
19480.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
19495.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
本院委員王正旭等14人提案,作如下決議,含請行政院原署,請問院會有無異議,無異議通過。報告院會臨時提案均已處理完畢,下午2點30分繼續開會,進行內政組織質詢,現在休息。 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
21595.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
21613.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
現在我們繼續開會現在在議長二樓旁聽的是十語文教營隊的所有同學們歡迎你們大家好歡迎歡迎現在我們進行內政組織質詢首先請蔡奇昌委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
21643.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
21649.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
主席各位列席的官員大家午安麻煩主席請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備選蔡委員好院長午安 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
21662.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
21689.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
今天本席跟上一次一樣本席對總質詢我還是把年輕朋友最關心的居住正義也就是我們要讓臺灣不斷高不斷上漲的房價怎麼讓年輕朋友可以有一個家所以社宅是一個本席從當副院長一直到回過頭來當委員我們一直在關注的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
21690.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
21697.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
我想讓一開始我先讓卓院長瞭解幾個數據第一個我想這個叫台股的總市值 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
21698.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
21727.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
也就是過去8年的時間蔡政府對於臺灣經濟在方向上政策規劃上事實上是做對了一些方向所以你看我們從2016年開始臺股的總市值從23.9兆幾乎成長3倍到今年的5月臺股的總市值已經達到67.3兆那換言之它創造的一定程度的財富的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
21728.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
21746.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
第二部分我們來看一下我隨便抓一個年份當然新的有時候有些國家還沒有出來我們就用2021年來做一個比較院長你可以看得到臺灣人或者說華人非常喜歡存款所以你看臺灣的國民儲蓄率 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
21749.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
21773.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
接近50%你看相對於美國17英國15加拿大23南韓才33所以國人錢很多第三個部分我想院長你也很清楚我們的政策裡面希望包括過去台商的錢我們透過政策讓台商的錢引流回臺投資臺灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
21776.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
21800.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
這三個數據我們都可以看到一個現象,臺灣人很多錢,油資充斥,那油資充斥的結果臺灣人又喜歡買土地買房子,所以換言之他把供給有限的這個房子不斷的因為油資的充沛,所以大家不斷的供需沒有辦法平衡的情況底下,我們的房價可以說節節高升。 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
21803.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
21829.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
現在我們談都不是在談蛋黃區了現在年輕朋友是談到蛋殼區啦蛋白大概也買不起了啦大家都在談蛋殼區所以啊我們一直在做一件事情你看從這個105年民國105年開始我們一連串無論是房地合一稅的2.0或者109年通過所謂打草房的三法 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
21830.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
21854.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
在109年開始,央行不斷的祭出選擇性的信用管制,其實這些政策都是希望透過政策來打炒房。可是院長你也知道回顧從105年一路109年到今天,我們打炒房的效果是非常的有限,也就是我們眼睜睜的政策不斷推出,但房價不斷的上漲。 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
21856.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
21862.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
所以這個表示我們在政策面對所謂的房地產面對房子政策的時候我們出現了一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
21865.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
21889.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
本席的看法認為很簡單第一個我覺得房子有居住正義也就是有社會正義的一個面向這個政府應該來做應該來照顧年輕人照顧弱勢但是那個院長也不要忘記房地產他還有市場性也就是房子土地他作為在台灣自由市場情況底下他作為一種商品 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
21890.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
21902.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
所以他有他的自由市場的供需的這個狀態要去滿足所以在這個情況底下我想只透過這個政策來做是非常有限也因為如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
21903.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
21924.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
本席過去以來一直積極希望對於社會住宅的推動無論中央政府或者地方政府他都應該要卯足全力也就是我們常常喜歡談的叫做優先法案或者政府的施政重點那本席不厭其煩又花了大概5分鐘的時間來論述這一段因為這個賴總統上任卓內閣也上任 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
21933.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
21949.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
所以我想我很希望從卓院長的這個口中我聽到社會住宅的這個政策社會住宅推動是不是這個卓內閣重要的這個優先法案或者是優先要做的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
21951.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
21953.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
謝謝院長。我們就來具體進入這個政策的內容。 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
21977.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
22001.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
蔡總統的目標8年他要蓋12萬戶所以我們把它做了一個統計幾乎我們從目前既有的新完工的、新建中的、絕標而代開工的以及目前規劃中的這樣加一加剛好12萬6千多戶所以換言之大概蔡總統說 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
22003.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
22031.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
8年要蓋12萬戶的目標這個算是有一個初步的成果那我看了一下這個賴總統所提阿他希望未來的8年當然他現在第一任是4年但規劃是用8年來做規劃如果8年他目標是25萬戶的社宅那我看了一下25萬戶的社宅換言之除了將蔡總統上位完工的都已經規劃好上位完工把他蓋完 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
22033.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
22047.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
賴總統還要再蓋13萬戶。 我也舉一個數據讓卓院長看一下。 全世界各國社會住宅的比例來看, |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
22049.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
22075.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
各位可以看得到這個荷蘭是34啦射載的比例是34%不要講到荷蘭啦我們光隔壁的日本或者美國這高度資本主義國家的美國新加坡或者其他國家台灣只有0.8所以總理長就算你25萬戶8年可以如期完成其實啊占比還是很低啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
22077.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
22103.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
這個0.8我再給你加一趴好了因為你蓋13萬戶你也不過1.81.8我再給你四折五入算兩趴好了你還是距離人家還是非常的遙遠所以本席雖然我知道你有很多的難處因為內政部都會來我辦公室報告但是我認為這個都是什麼這個都是因為站在內政部的立場也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
22104.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
22125.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
這個部長也站在旁邊如果以內政部之力要來完成13萬戶他們就是認為有進步了但是以本席的角度13萬戶那個叫勉強不能叫及格那叫勉強不及格本席認為你應該就目標設定25萬戶不是設定蔡總統的12萬戶加你的13萬戶應該這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
22135.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
22151.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
這個賴政府就應該直接25萬戶這個比例才可以勉強追得上才可以勉強追得上所以這個涉宰的比例過低我們如果要來推動除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
22152.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
22178.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
這個大家都知道以前陳總統的時代中部科學園區化不可能為可能那時候大家說一個科學園區要做得好沒有3、5年以上是不可能的結果當時陳前總統的時代將事用命大家把中部科學園區當成一個很重要的目標所以你看兩年的時間中部科學園區就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
22179.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
22184.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
所以本席只認為這個叫勢在人為如果今天賴政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
22185.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
22212.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
左內閣認為年輕人居住正義的問題如果設宅是解決目前房價高漲或者年輕人要住得起房子很重要的解方之一我認為就應該要請權力來做這個事情而不是這件事情只請那個劉世芳部長的內政部甚至下面的住都中心去想辦法找地啊蓋房子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
22212.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
22212.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
請卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
22221.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
22225.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
兩點跟委員報告第一點我們的社會住宅政策除了直接興建之外委員也知道我們還有包租貸款跟租金補貼另外這個分別有25萬戶跟50萬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
22251.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
22267.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
委員所關心的直接興建我們秉持的態度是我們直接很誠實的看到問題所以務實的提出這樣的數據這是個方法再來就是我們踏實的要在未來的8年內興建包括前面12萬戶之外的13萬戶這是從誠實務實踏實的角度來出發 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
22270.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
22273.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
本席還是覺得啦 就是說 左院長的回答我不是叫做不滿意啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
22294.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
22316.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
就是賴總統要連任他一定要有幾個事情是讓所有國人同胞覺得賴總統在這幾項事情做得有夠好的賴總統很簡單嘛他把台灣的能見度把整個台灣的經濟等等他有幾個很重要的事情是大家記得很清楚的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
22317.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
22340.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
我認為啦,把社會住宅這件事情請全力把它做好。 是賴總統未來四年他要連任之後,年輕朋友會記得最清楚。 蔡總統雖然十二萬戶都一起乞討啊,但是你要知道年輕朋友不買單啊。 十二萬戶在賴總統的這個總統或者選舉過程裡面,年輕朋友是沒有跟我們站在一起的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
22341.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
22366.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
所以本席只是建議啦我說我對你的回答不是滿意的原因就是說本席只是建議就你的回答是你把它當一件事但你沒有把它當最重要的事情所以本席還是認為說這件事情你們去思考一下有哪幾件事情是卓院長你在任內你覺得我要請全力把它做好的事情我覺得挑一兩樣出來做這個這一兩樣做下去是對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
22369.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
22380.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
臺灣的鄉親臺灣的民眾非常有感的所以本席只是建議你或許你有其他的選項本席因為沒有問到所以你可能我不知道即使我們有更多的選項即使有更多的選項 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
22382.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
22401.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
社會住宅、社會居住正義這一件事永遠是我們很重要的一個優先的事項。本席就隨便建議啦,你聽一聽啦,譬如說公私協力啦,也就是什麼叫做請權力,內政部一定沒有這樣的權力,譬如說你在所有這些大型的企業,我們的科學園區、工業區的附近, |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
22402.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
22427.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
跟大型的企業合作因為他們的年輕員工也需要設宅嘛所以讓他們來蓋嘛蓋呢要有誘因啦不是只是說你要去喔不是而是你政府如果你配合我蓋甚至你可以跟建商或者其他有需要的我也講過嘛我也跟部長建議過啊我們那個消防員警消啊你看那個宿舍啊有多老舊 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
22428.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
22452.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
注射非常的老舊然後呢這個你看喔平均屋齡超過50年而且嚴重不足全國只有1.7%的警察人員和1.4%的消防員實際配有這個植物宿舍那22個縣市有17個縣市為提供消防員所謂的植物宿舍所以這個需求很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
22452.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
22480.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
那這個東西要怎麼去蓋這個跟社宅可不可以結合比如說你的容積可以蓋戶數比原來的消防員需求更高你就應該把它蓋滿嘛所以我的意思要跟院長提醒是行政院擁有所有各部會如果各部會把社宅當成一件事情那就不是內政部的事情那是行政院的事情也就是本期所提到這個叫請行政院的力氣來做事 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
22481.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
22483.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
時間剩下最後一分鐘我也從此提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
22511.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
22529.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
我再舉一個表格,你看齁這個中遷率啊我舉一個中遷率你看齁這個臺中地區、桃園地區、臺北地區啊你可以看得到那個中遷率啊有的都只有低到個位數平均也大概都是有十幾%、二十%左右所以表示 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
22531.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
22555.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
大家對社會住宅的需求是很高的需求是很高哪怕你還有這個包租代管啊租金補貼我都不反對啦但基本上還是沒有辦法因為你看這個中簽率就知道大家對社宅的需求還是存在那另外呢我們在媒體上也看到所謂什麼叫做開名車住社宅或者呢最近大家在檢討的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
22558.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
22562.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
購屋的這個所謂第一例的這些貸款等等因為時間的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
22584.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
22587.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
謝謝蔡齊昌委員的質詢,也謝謝卓院長的備詢。接下來,我們請登記第12號羅廷偉委員質詢。好,謝謝院長,有請院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
22616.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
22635.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
委員好 院長好 首先我要特別感謝行政院還有我們的內政部 我們在持續爭取這個永續提升人行安全的計畫 我這裡也有爭取到 也非常感謝因為台中市政府有送案麻園頭溪南區的復興路以及東南區的建成路都有爭取到相關的計畫內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
22636.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
22664.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
但後續呢因為還有國光路、文興南路以及我們的五泉南路未獲補助我們也持續的關注也希望內政部給予我們高度的關心臺中市的建設那當然第一個我想要跟院長爭取照顧弱勢將中低收入戶比照低收入戶啊也可以納入使用公立殯葬設施的免收使用管理費那院長我想跟你分享這個2017年5月立法院三讀通過殯葬管理條例第21之1 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
22665.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
22690.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
條文修正將低收入戶使用公立的殯葬設施火葬場以及納骨塔均免收使用管理相關的一個費用但是呢我要跟你探討的是社會救助法第一條規定很清楚為照顧低收入戶中低收入戶我們可以看到制定的這個本法他就是要把輔助救濟的對象有包含中低收 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
22690.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
22719.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
所以我想截至現在112年第4季,全國約有28萬6千的中低收入戶未不符合這樣子的一個殯葬管理條例。我想跟您爭取,院長,基於照顧弱勢,彰顯政府照顧中低收的國民是否評估商帳費用、火化及納骨塔塔位等所需經費中央編列來給予支持。雲林縣目前正在做。行政院可不可以有這個機會來演繹? |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
22721.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
22745.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
報告委員這個有關於地方自治事項他必須有一個全國的一致性那現在呢中低收入戶總計有26萬餘人這個已經由地方政府在吸收這樣的一個費用是如果再納入中低收入戶那這個人數當然龐大當然同樣如果由地方政府來吸收的話那才是地方自治事項那是不是地方政府能夠去 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
22746.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
22770.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
曾接這樣的一個財政的負擔因為是不是計算結果是可以的這個我覺得我們尊重所以這邊我是說所需的經費由中央政府來編列預算支持所以我想跟您爭取當然我知道現在目前是由地方政府所以雲林縣目前正在自己去想辦法所以我希望透過這個這麼重要的一個質詢來跟您建議希望內政部能夠做一個考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
22771.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
22791.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
那當然第二個我想跟你探討的是有關於我們大家都在探討的社會住宅我想我以103年當這個分水嶺因為103年有所謂的潮運當時內政部統計全國的住宅價格指數99.07而現在第四季112年的第四季來到了136.2那我想孔子說32例 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
22793.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
22818.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
我自己呢35歲我覺得這是一個人生的分水嶺我們在跑這個行程的時候很多有些跟我們差不多歲數的一些年輕人跟我們分享不敢結婚不敢生薪水比不上其他的國家房價持續的攀升對他們來說高不可攀負擔非常的重院長就你自己對自己觀察你對這個房價的觀察房市的觀察你覺得有沒有還漲甚至有降價 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
22820.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
22840.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
當然這個因為都會化的行程公共建設的加強是乃至於整個建築成本的提高以及很多專業區科技園區的產生周遭帶動的一個土地的需求房屋的需求等等以及在這個建商他們用很多的行銷的手法 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
22841.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
22866.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
都會注照著房價往上升。 所謂前景看好的臺灣所以持續在攀升。 但過去我們在透過這個平均地權以及房地合一的2.0的稅率都有看到稍微的舒緩但是我個人認為要讓它下滑很大應該是很難除了有一個很大的一個變動那臺灣在這個穩定的局面底下有看到因為這樣的措施稍微的下緩 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
22867 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
22879.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
但現在他隨時可能因為某種因素在做一些市場上的變化那政府的策略是用公共政策的手段透過金融的方式透過更多租屋補貼的方式來進行評議這個市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
22882.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
22909.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
所以我們一起來探討那我也很高興你實事求是的一個回答那我想在前總統蔡英文所提出的一個住宅三件目前我們看到改革房屋稅制以及健全租屋體制以及新辦社會住宅我們可以來探討幾個稅制的部分因為7月要開始囤房稅2.0實際的效果仍未知但是目前新清安貸款大家都覺得有點不妙最近還有這樣子的一個新聞報導說網路上的探討 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
22911.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
22941.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
很多都不太看好這個新清安的一個貸款那因為現在房價是越打越高我們支持打房但是我覺得是真正的是打炒房我覺得這個關鍵是在這裡我覺得我們明顯這個政策是想要給年輕人吃胡蘿蔔但是我們卻不敢對炒房以及投資客拿出更大更大的一個棒子來因應我覺得這個著力點應該要想辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
22941.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
22967.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
我想這個跟第二支建樓建權租屋體系有著類似的狀況我想租屋的爭議以及租賃的權益我們都持續的關注我想我也緊盯著租屋定型化的契約防範這個房東調漲電價這個部分我想之前也有其他的委員關心這一題那我希望這個定型化契約能夠趕緊出來但接著我要講的是第三事件新辦社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
22968.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
22993.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
我想新辦社會住宅我想要分享幾個數據當然賴總統對於這一個百萬社宅的一個目標我們是很擔憂他的達成如何達成我們當然希望他能夠達成再來我要看一下這些數據是從內政部不動產資訊平台社會住宅專區統計抓出來的我就不細談內部我就跟大家報告說實在話我覺得整個數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
22994.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
23013.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
有過於的美化那您聽聽看我覺得因為真正能住的只有既有加薪完工也就是說全國只有3萬336戶是民眾真正能夠住進去的占比整個全國住宅是0.32% |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
23015.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
23035.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
所以還有7萬2千零24戶是正在蓋根本還沒有蓋好所以跟實際民眾的差距跟落差是有的但是再者我看到內政部在2月23號的臉書有說中央在台中市新辦的社會住宅已達4千戶有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
23035.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
23038.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
有那這個部分我要跟大家分享其中有一個點 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
23040.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
23061.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
國家住住中心推動榮景區的臺棠公營學院轉做社會住宅提供有就學就業居住的民眾可以來申請入住200多戶。﹖是﹖對吧那我想我要跟大家報告可是我們可以看一下全國住宅的這個新辦進度統計表中央在臺中新完工的這個部分有203戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
23063.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
23078.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
可是臺堂公營學院設宅改裝學生宿舍根本就是就不是新完工啊為什麼我要這樣講臺堂在100年就取得使用執照臺堂自營收租的一個宿舍宿舍早就在使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
23078.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
23101.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
只是去年加入了旅館公司有的房轉型設宅專案才轉為社會住宅使用所以從頭到尾我認為它不是新完工但是我們不居就於這細節但是院長我覺得這樣子應該把它分配到既有的那一項但是我要跟大家探討的是臺中市目前已完工2700 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
23104.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
23119.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
臨時提案委員．新建中的社宅有4649戶．共計7368戶．排名六都是第二僅次於臺北市．針對認真執行社宅的地方政府． |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
23119.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
23146.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
院長可不可以給予一些獎勵的計畫措施鼓勵好學生再更認真鼓勵好學生協助我們賴清德總統所訂定的這目標可以在該縣市能夠更加大刀闊斧的進行。 院長你怎麼看?感謝委員如果中央跟地方政府都能就某一個這樣人民所需要的政策能夠通力的合作這絕對是全民之福那地方做得好 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
23148.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
23174.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
不一定掌聲在中央大家還是會給地方政府給台中市政府掌聲的如果這個掌聲我覺得對我們來講都是最大最大的獎勵當然想跟您爭取因為有頒獎台中市政府有被頒獎那是個榮耀我們已經同意補助台中市政府總共有158億來興建有有有我知道我知道這個非常的實際但是也希望未來有機會興建中的工程費用我們很希望台中市政府可以多提供我們一些土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
23175.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
23191.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
中央再來一起來協助如果台中市政府我也在幫忙找土地那來通報給我們中央我也鼓勵台中市政府當然後面我再來跟你探討就是說其實剛剛很多的立委都在分享整個社會住宅的佔總體量我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
23192.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
23218.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
5%是先進國家的一個低標啦,剛剛都在講周邊國家嘛,6%的我們都,我是覺得臺灣目前是0.32啦,當然有人對於這個認知上有差距沒關係,但我要講的是還是跟實際的低標有一定的差距。那本席想談的重點就是內政部的數據一直都是中央跟地方,但是我覺得不是只是單靠一方就能夠完成,院長你也能夠認同嘛,對不對,應該是共同來努力。 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
23218.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
23236.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
所以本席建議中央地方一起來協力,中央主導興建,中央可以盤點現有國有地,例如台塘,在台中扣除了農業區、山坡地、保留地、工業區等用地不能興建以外的,是不是能夠再來持續的盤點,有沒有其他的,台塘只是舉例。 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
23237.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
23238.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（ |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
23267.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
23296.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
最後我想說是不是能夠有一些政策來做引誘的一個誘因那就是新建集合式的住宅隆基獎率可以要求挪移部分作為公益社會住宅以及公托公幼親子館相關的等設施過去我們看到荷蘭的考察荷蘭的一個項目大家都可以稱讚荷蘭他們的相關的政策比如說像其實荷蘭又更進一步公私造屋其實剛剛我們前一位委員也有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
23296.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
23324.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
這個部分鼓勵青年參與合作造屋的方向我想荷蘭這個部分我們還是可以實際有所參考這部分我想臺灣社會住宅起步比較晚很多東西沒有完全這麼成熟但是藉近荷蘭的模式破除大眾對於社會住宅的一個成見形塑一個屬於臺灣新社區的文化我想荷蘭的一個混居透過這樣子的一個模式我想院長針對以上的建議院長有沒有機會回應一下承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
23325.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
23348.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
這個新的區段徵收案期的規定必須要提供5%給直轄市3%給非直轄市來侵犯社會住宅這個已經是將來可行的方式之一那至於說更多的公有土地或是一般可開發的土地我們日前有請內政部來統籌把土地盤點但這個土地要坐落在可需要用的地方而不是偏僻的我請內政部說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
23350.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
23374.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
對剛剛羅委員所講的都非常正確有些措施當中我再提供一個就是住宅法裡面其實它是可以鼓勵私人的企業私人的企業他如果願意留住員工他也願意蓋社宅的話我們也願意協助那這樣子土地的取得就比較沒有問題對當然我是說在誘因在更多對我們多管齊下來興建這個社會住宅提供給年輕人比較多的居住正義的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
23375.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
23391.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
好,謝謝。另外我想再跟這個院長探討毒品防治的一個問題。 院長我想在這一次的書面報告可以寫到,這個落實五打七安政策,受毒追人斷金流。 那我想有幾個舉例跟這個新聞想跟您做一個探討。 第一個,這個新聞呢齁,權力棄毒 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
23394.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
23400.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
23415.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
23431.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
三毒K的菸啊,相關的K毒人數啊,我們覺得有可能毒販是化整為零的方式帶貨,即使被查獲也只要罰錢。我想院長有沒有一個態度,我們之前20公克調整成5公克,有沒有機會再繼續更嚴格? |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
23434.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
23450.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
現在我們把打詐跟反毒列為相當重要的治安工作之一所以在法令上像打詐的釋法我們希望趕快通過在反毒的過程裡面對新興毒品必須要有一個毒品的審議能夠加速至於說 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
23452.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
23465.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
這個已經持在手上的或者是剛剛委員所說的這樣行為的太陽如果我們認為這位將來對反毒的工作會產生不利或是說利有未待的情況底下我們當然共同來討論我跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
23467.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
23488.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
我想520之前我跟法務部長有探討過他也覺得這個所謂的K毒年年篡高這個持有5公克以下只需要裁罰金額他認為應該更嚴格再繼續下降這個功課數我也希望能夠朝這一面來處理那第二個當然我要探討的是新聞新興毒品之冠3年205人死於喵喵 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
23489.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
23501.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
第三、依託米子被滲入電子煙稀釋如同喪屍。（我想法務部讀審會議通過而列為讀品,現在走法制程序,後續要報行政院合併大概要花多少時間? |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
23502.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
23524.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
報告我來講一下我們其實預告的時間是15天那6月13號的時候已經召開毒品防治協會所以其實算上短的時間之內可能就可以公告最後我想講在98年間有一個食品添加威爾岡尾要開始盛行當時的行政院長吳敦義指示要由所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
23547.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
23549.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
謝謝羅廷偉委員的質詢,也謝謝卓院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記13號謝龍介委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
23584.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
23589.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
議長,我請杜議長麻煩請卓院長備詢杜議員好辛苦應該你一生中情,我給你觀察今年心情,我個人吃香菜,也吃琴皮 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
23613.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
23627.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
所以你知道我們說的和樂委啊,我在說這個漢文台語也好,和樂委也好,臺灣話也好,是真真正正中文文化,你覺得不理解?當然是這對水條開始,有一本尺叫做尺文,那麼一直到東條,一本尺,加你發音叫做東文。 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
23643.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
23668.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
來到送到叫做公文,到清到叫做空虛禮典,到清尾一百零零二左右,我們麻辣人這個紅色出一份淚音妙語。一直到195歲年,臺灣人,每三心腹前心聲,出一份淚音保感。 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
23669.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
23681.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
所以臺灣的一句句有音有理,我不知道你有沒有理解?你愛談話早點來打拚,我看你也沒有在打拚啊。 讓這天愛臺灣的人過去之前的人很感慨說,現在有一個國民黨的蔣介石在推薦漢文台語。 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
23695.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
23716.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
你講愛台灣講到都忘記都講我現在都愛台瓶而已我抱歉我講正在臨幕沒大家有接受愛軍姪媽啦但是得手的人還是同樣要一塊土地啦我今天上你這本書齁 最重要有意義的你所看的第二範圍都有我們台語的發音像在查國語字典一樣你如果要查國語理論 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
23725.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
23729.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
在USB齁,你回去聽一遍,後座來到這裡,你就會對W流啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
23755.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
23782.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
鳳珠公有說：軍事提棋員離各棋行：就是說：說一本棋：做沒一趟詩：下詩下情：鳳珠公也有說：國家員即不出：提供即不帶：就是說沒水本生落：因為今天做不夠這很漏氣很減少的事情： |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
23784.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
23792.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
我看你看整個委員裡面的運動包括國民主席也好包括社會主席你不會去設定一個國標的手裡真好 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
23795.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
23820.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
你也要熱情出派,我等會給你看,他都亂講了。 什麼在白暗那一天在選舉他都亂講了,說我理孔什麼,他要起二十萬號,你看總統那天都把他擁有了,就死心無,不然就漏氣,換一個漏氣回來,但是你的態度不錯就是說,包括我們的政府委員長在幫你報告樓庭委員,包括其他議員在講。 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
23822.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
23843.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
我告訴你,做會比較重要,不需要做事情,不能用手裡來包裝,所以你不要叫我熱情地出牌,我看你一刀。﹐不會啦,不會啦﹐真的不會?﹐不會啦﹐不會?﹐不會﹐比較正?﹐不會,他都對國家的風雄,如果這樣很正確,這個國家會有好的風雄,怕這樣就是啊。﹐小韓討判有大韓的討判,小韓的討判不大韓的討判有,你知道嗎?﹐沒有啦,沒有討判,沒有討判啦﹐沒有啦,來來來,給我看看,來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
23857.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
23857.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
臨時提案時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
23874.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
23877.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
謝榮健議員說到做到實現政治人物最重要的誠信。 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
23897.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
23909.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
他們的清白五月26．他要入閒啊你說你用政治生命保證清白現在在入閒啊你的政治生命是什麼這是我個人的事我先吃你的心你、你、你、你、你、你、你、你、你、 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
23915.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
23941.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
謝龍介議員說到做到實現政治人物最重要的誠信。 謝龍介議員說到做到實現政治人物最重要的誠信。 謝龍介議員說到做到實現政治人物最重要的誠信。 謝龍介議員說到做到實現政治人物最重要的誠信。 謝龍介議員說到做到實現政治人物最重要的誠信。 謝龍介議員說到做到實現政治人物最重要的誠信。 謝龍介議員說到做到實現政治人物最重要的誠信。 謝龍介議員說到做到實現政治人物最重要的誠信。 謝龍介議員說到做到實現政治人物最重要的誠信。 謝龍介議員說到做到實現政治人物最重要的誠信。 謝龍介議 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
23943.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
23952.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
主席,他就是說要施理先施啦。他說對啊,有資料你先施啊。 要施理先施這樣。對啊,有資料你先施啊。 我說,我施理就是他。他說對,有資料你先施。對,要兩句一樣的。 我要說嘛,他當然是設定咱們,所以政敵當然,我有意見我付出代價。 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
23969.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
23970.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
整個會議的人要繼續論壇,我鄉親乖乖說我跟你的契約是正義。契約是適當的,你怎麼可以是? |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
23970.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
23974.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
總之我付出待機。所以我要跟你說,講話要心中,你講得風暴,講到三明那一世,現在把他逼走了,早上說三明歹世,我給你看看, |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
23997.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
24004.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
立法院接受這個立法院的這個國情諮詢這是錯的這個是假訊息因為根據不管是根據憲法或是根據立法院職權刑事法 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
24021.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
24021.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
24033.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
24042.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
說得氣氛好高,對啊,台東不錯,現在立法院一個統計人,我救去,走去暢領。 總統的台東並不改變,只要立法院在開會的時候邀請來做國際協議,他就是來。 我跟你說喔,你問我創派,我不知道我對你這麼嚴重,我比你更了解他啦,問我看他啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
24056.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
24066.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
你給我看牌子,你給我看牌子,你給我看牌子,你給我看牌子,你給我看牌子,你給我看牌子,你給我看牌子,你給我看牌子 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
24084.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
24100.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
我不是說他是少年啦,我是說看他,不穿滾珠,要跳舞,他是總統啦,不是總統,總統,大家都會當孫總統啦,總統不太像勒,但是,在這裡我也說了,對國家的元首應該給他有適當的內容,對不對,所以一問一答不一定來,大家要一個態度出來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
24110.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
24111.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
（6月25日（ |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
24123.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
24123.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
．6月25日．6月25日 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
24142.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
24146.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
我告訴你,你不必我更了解,你不必在這裡聽他,這是不必要。 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
24162.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
24169.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
他的事他要自己做,個人做要個人擔。我們是聽憲法的精神,聽憲法的精神。他這樣很好啊,跳下來第一層,我給他欣賞,我給他按個讚。喔,跳下來第一層,好啊,第一層來面對,大家請面面對,面與對冠,都沒問題。我告訴你啦,選舉大家都會啦,不要用騙的,要無失,喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
24190.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
24212.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
啊現在怎麼給我求他你也不怕欸我在台南市給他衝到一半兩百三十四天沒有禮拜議會啊這叫做憲法這沒危險市長不用你給他給禮完這順這樣沒危險啊這危險的事他不做有夠多次啊那有歷史的原因啊你不要再說歷史的原因啊我同時你那邊歷史的原因我同時就給你記了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
24220.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
24223.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我告訴你聽啦,我在第三檔我問啦,我說是對嗎?這三檔我啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
24245.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
24252.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
你告訴我你今天有沒有做一件台南市的建設一件就好我吃兩塊冬季絲巾你老總統不給我贏啊不好意思說給我來拜託來經過五個月以後民進黨提名提名之後你知道他把台南市的鄉親第一股的文宣說什麼你注意聽啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
24274.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
24284.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
各位臺南市民朋友,我是大成長。過去的市長我都在歸位,未來的市長,我們臺南市的大進步。我告訴你,做一個社區,可以領受一個市長都在歸位。所以我問你,你做一條建設,他抱歉給我印,坦白說,印不出來。所以我說你不要拒絕他啦,再給他頒一個五千塊錢來,注意聽。 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
24306.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
24329.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
民進黨籍的公職人員,市長也好、立委也好、議員也好,講一句比較淡白的啦。（6月25日（卡稱幾期末,台南市民都知道啊。（6月25日（哪有什麼樣的條件講無禁啦。（6月25日（但是,現在台灣社會很多人講台南市民進黨的公職是無禁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
24335.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
24363.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
為什麼會這樣?因為互相攻擊嘛!互相攻擊嘛!作為老市長,今天你回來台南,心情是很緊張。對台南市發生的事,我真的很痛心。所以我在這,我希望市長站起來。李維站起來!議員都站起來! |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
24365.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
24366.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
臨時提案會議臨時提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
24393.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
24396.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
今天有一個新聞,就是說中國大陸派人來監視我們的媒體。 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
24416.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
24420.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
你明明知道他在監視我們的媒體,在跟我們操作,你為什麼是抱歉幫我調監幫他做? |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
24420.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
24424.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
媒體可以這樣做嗎?當然不行啊,如果有這個手勢...有這個手勢你為什麼幫他做?這個手勢發生了事情,是不是大家都知道這件事陸委會來跟...大家都知道,我告訴你,他做的事如果有這個事情... |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
24442.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
24457.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
都跟整棟一樣,整棟也利用很多媒體,還有中央廚房,每天都要討論什麼,今天討論韓國禄,明天才討論吃龍蓋。 齁,徐巧欣、葡萄牙說話,每個人都說一樣,你如果說他們是這樣就對了,你如果知道是這樣,不這樣,你回去炒,我會提供一個共同的群組給你。 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
24466.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
24468.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
委員報告,他是因為輪到回去了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
24491.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
24503.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
阿輪到有四人回去阿,你從那些故事你講就對了,是有阿沒有,有這個事情阿沒有啦。我們現在會跟文化部主管機關一起來做行政調查。阿沒調查欸,當報案那樣現在是... |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
24513.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
24539.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
謝謝謝同介委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長的備詢。報告委員會現在在議場二樓旁聽的是臺灣四代教育基金會所有的好朋友歡迎你們。報告委員會現在內政組的質詢已經詢答完畢。我們現在開始換組。換外交及國防組織質詢。現在我們休息10分鐘。10分鐘之後我們開始進行國防外交的詢答。謝謝大家。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
25161.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
25164.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
報告院會現在我們繼續開會進行外交及國防組織諮詢首先我們請賴世保委員諮詢謝謝主席以及各位先進有請行政院的卓院長以及外交部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
25189.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
25217.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
國務委員長外交部林部長備選兩位長官好首先我記得在外交委員會國務委員會我對林佳龍部長有跟你訛諾了按照過去的學經歷耶魯的政治博士 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
25219.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
25245.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
當過台中市長當過立法委員兩個都有當過交通部長等等的反觀我們現在的卓院長就是跟我一樣楊純立委做完一路做一個民進黨代理主席一段時間不是代理報告委員那不是代理那是選出來的選出來的選出來的就當一個黨籍黨籍一般來講社會評價不高社會評價其實林佳龍 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
25249.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
25275.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
為什麼你當院長他當部長他心裡不平啊我那時候問他我沒有能力去當外交部長我那時候問他他說心裡不舒服啊他這樣說啊那個位置本來應該他坐著因為喔政國會沒有位置擺林佳龍擺班無奈坐在這裡好 既然要坐在這裡就隱情做事情該有的做法都做最近有一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
25277.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
25278.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
我有共推韓院長做董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
25301.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
25320.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
為什麼開始給他怎麼穿小鞋呢?基金會的執行長魯業忠外交政大外交系的系主任他也當過民主基金會的副執行長五年內結果你們一把他幹掉請問你下次什麼時候給他提名? |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
25321.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
25346.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
報告委員齁,我們尊重民主基金會董事會的決定。沒有尊重的決定,你副董事長在那裡一手在那裡嚷啊!你在那裡嚷啊!很清楚看得到,現在國外的駐台單位,他們對這事情表達嚴重的關切喔!好幾個國外的駐台單位都說,What's going on? |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
25346.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
25348.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
TFB嘛是吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
25348.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
25349.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
TFN? |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
25351.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
25361.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
為什麼執行長沒有辦法產生?請問有沒有接到外國駐台灣的單位給你的關係?有沒有?沒有。美國的MED也沒有。請問你知不知道全世界世界民主運動大會今年在哪裡舉辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
25382.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
25409.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
韓國韓國韓國韓國韓國韓國韓國 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
25412.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
25433.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
我們外交委員會大概13位13位?你都一個一個拜訪的嗎?就是盡可能啦,因為有些委員公出比較忙。其中有幾身這麼大身,你們要去報過勒?有,我有跟院長的隨乎有留好啊,還沒有安排上。有嗎?沒有嘛齁?院長我沒講錯嗎?沒有啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
25435.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
25462.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
你心裡被卓榮台的憤怒傳遞到韓國瑜的身上,我替院長叫去。 如果院長有空我隨時一定會去跟院長請議。倒是這樣,我當這麼久的立委,部長來不來我都無所謂,但是他是院長不一樣,你不去院長看,其他委員你都去看了,院長不去看什麼意思,你要是國會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
25464.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
25487.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
報告委員,我有去看院長喔。 我知道你有看啦。 看了兩次喔。 所以就因為他可以去看,所以他幫院長,你當部長。 報告委員,我有請那個院長的隨乎幫我聯繫啦,因為這個時間上沒有辦法排好。 那個時候。 那個心不甘情不願。 那個事我每天去站著等著他,覺得碰不到啦。 那我以後跟委員一起去。 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
25489.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
25512.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
這個你不用看我,我不是外交委員會的,你要看院長,院長是國防委員會委員勒,他是國防委員會委員勒,所以你看昨天他就有當院長,你就沒當院長了,差你幾個。結果民主基金會做什麼你不知道,今年的時間民主運動大會在哪裡,在約翰尼斯堡,你也不知道,你是破舊做假的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
25512.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
25518.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
叫做世界民主高峰會的很多個啦,因為最近就是以拜登為主召開的那個在韓國啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
25531.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
25534.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
世界民主運動大會Women for Democracy democracy |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
25559.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
25582.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
WMD這以前在台灣舉辦過今年度是在今年是跟我們TFD跟美國MED共同主辦在2022的時候主辦過2020年2020年就要在預案理事堡10月22日到22號你完全不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
25583.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
25599.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
好,你要感應民主基金會的運作,你是憑哪一頂啊?就憑你叫林佳龍?不是!憑你是民進黨不能可以講信義!我跟妳講齁,民主基金會的副董事長,民主基金會的副董事長,民主基金會副董事長是小禹民主基金會董事長,董事長是在這。你們就一路卡,時間也卡,人選也卡,你什麼時候可以搞定? |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
25614.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
25630.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
那個董事會的這個決定是敦請我們韓院長董事長主持來這個提名那董事會會行同意權可以提早再開可以提早再開以此董事會決定如執行長的人選嗎?可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
25631.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
25659.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
那應該尊重董事長他可以召集董事會。我們下禮拜就召開,下禮拜就召開,這個補起來。因為國外的駐台單位已經倒霉掉了,特別是NEF美國國家民主基金會倒霉掉,他說我要跟你們報告。我不跟委員報告,因為那是假訊息啦,那個有人操作的啦,他就通過媒體放出來。實行長啊。事實上我們跟那個美國的民主基金會,我們聯繫管道很好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
25660.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
25685.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
你請我回吧我都知道你只要想當官想取代他不好好認真努力啦民主基金會部長你聽我一句話先不要走部長部長部長先不要走先不要走你現在來聽我講一句話就好了你沒用這樣的卡沒問題對不起民主基金會錢不多1.8億不到2億我們立法院就好好伺候你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
25687.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
25705.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
同時事後你們外交部預算,馬上就預算審預算了,我們看著辦,走著想看著辦,這樣欺負韓國瑜,你看著好了,欺負韓國瑜等於欺負立法院,這個是欺負立法院的國民黨團,我們絕對全力做到後盾,看著辦,好,好,院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
25710.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
25719.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
這個總統啊!賴清德總統到現在為止我沒有看到總統啊!Where is the president of 賴清德?It's gone! |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
25719.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
25721.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
不見了!他就是民進黨的主席啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
25721.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
25726.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
我經常看到總統啊!沒有我經常看到賴總統啊!昨天! |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
25726.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
25736.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
昨天軍委他也在代表中華民國國人跟政委歡迎友邦的總理 提問我時間很短 我沒有講 叫你講你不要講話好不好?讓我把這個講完 因為我時間太少了 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
25738.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
25761.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
外面共軍鬧台總統大搞內鬥根據憲法44條總統有權利協調5月大家有權利協調一下他不要協調了直接對幹總統不見了只見了民進黨的主席叫賴清德結果呢態度態度TAIBE態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
25763.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
25782.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
那是CHAT GPT我們國共會發展出來的他說什麼注意看喔他說總統發動抗議並號召各機關共同反對國會通過的重大法案可能被視為獨裁皇帝行為但是皇帝啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
25789.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
25812.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
你不要講話,我現在講話,我這不會叫你回答,因為你不是,你不是來心得。再看你,你既然想講,讓你來看這個東西。憲法正確條款,第三條第二項第二款,你自己也講過啊,說覆議不過怎麼辦,覆議不過我就接受,沒有辭職的現象,你講的嘛,對不對?是。是嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
25813.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
25830.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
但是,一句話喔,憲法裡面定的這麼清楚,原來47條,現在是遵修條款,改了47條的時候要辭職,遵修條款的時候不要辭職,但是要接受,既然你接受了,你還提什麼死刑,提第一項那個? |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
25832.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
25859.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
人格錯亂啊先不要急我的整體感覺就是你追隨賴皇帝安普洛賴一起加入追殺在野黨的行列他一聲令下調動你行政院調動監察院調動綠燕黨團一起追殺在野黨讓台灣變成一個紮紮實實的獨裁帝制國家可能啊你可以講給你講30秒 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
25862.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
25871.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
委員你剛剛跟林部長說欺負韓院長就是欺負立法院剛剛你那句話對總統不禮貌對國家不禮貌我提出復議是因為自愛難行 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
25877.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
25883.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
既然他沒有過,我認為從憲法上,他就是違憲不可行。 憲法規定你要接受啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
25883.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
25888.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
You got to accept! |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
25888.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
25889.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
你就接受而已啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
25889.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
25894.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
憲法有賦予行政院長提出赴議的權利啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
25894.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
25896.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
憲法有賦予行政院長提出赴議的權利啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
25897.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
25913.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是因為自愛難行。復議是 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
25922.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
25943.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
總統和執政院長都照憲法的秩序來換,你應該支持,否則你就是反憲法。我跟你講憲法47條後來改成正確條款,你要接受,既然接受你提什麼覆議,你告訴我提什麼覆議。因為自愛難行啊,我認為自愛難行大院不接受,我認為違憲不可行,我請求大法官會議來處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
25944.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
25959.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
提覆議你開一開嘛你怎麼有臉在提覆議你都不是你覆議都輸了怎麼有臉提事先呢事先給總統提一百個理由都很難說服委員我知道了總統提可以對不對監察院提可以夠了啦那是跟總統講不夠啊阿前老師講 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
25961.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
25979.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
賴清德皇帝做了這個事情是最壞的事。 再一次用這種方式來對總統不禮貌,我絕對不能接受。 我講話你不要插嘴。 但是你不禮貌我就不能接受。 有種不禮貌很禮貌,賴清德皇帝很禮貌啊,稱不到皇帝也知道。 一個遵照憲法的總統怎麼會被你稱呼為皇帝呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
25979.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
25981.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
皇帝啊,他行為就是皇帝啊,我們可以看喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
25983.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
26000.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
他叫監察院,然後大法官都是你們提名的,大法官15個人,8個人就可以開會,一個人當主席,7個人,4個人就可以決定就把我們跟掉了,4個人推翻113個人的決議,我們的國外改革無法,民進黨的版本占了4成。 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
26002.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
26021.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
這個好好的檢討,我再講一遍,這個你不要問一回答。你這樣整理表現,我對你的評價越來越低,越來越低。你把自己自作賤,自作賤變成賴皇帝的小跟班。好,我們來看。這個國防部長請一起上來。我時間剩很少,快點。麻煩請國防部長備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
26027.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
26051.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
孫小營還要離開之前AIT的他講了一句話叫臺灣人民不要恐慌面對大陸一直包一直包不要恐慌但是不要麻木不忍你不覺得我們現在在邱部長一上來之後說沒有第一級耶邱國正整個要郭部長上來沒有第一級只有自衛權的第一級他打我們我們再打他 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
26052.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
26075.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
一直說一直說,結果他們的軍艦來了,這個艦來了,潛水艇來了,什麼都來,啊我們這裡什麼都沒有,還居然搞我們的海關演習。 有一句話很有意思,院長你一定要注意,海關演習居然是最貼近實戰的,結果還講了一句話,說如果看到裝備故障, |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
26078.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
26101.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
軍人的服裝不整技術不熟練大家要習以為常可能臺灣中華民國軍什麼時候這麼落差、落魄、不爽你們怎麼會說另一個守則說噴到這樣的情況不要見怪不怪這個我的感覺你這個方法只是這樣講法只是討拍而已你們官員講的你們司長級講的跟委員報告我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
26151.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
26152.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
26179.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
26202.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
謝謝。謝謝賴斯堡委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長國防部的備詢。接下來我們請登記第二號黃仁委員質詢。謝謝主席。有請我們卓院長。待會再請我們國防部部長。再請卓院長備詢。請國防部部長備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
26216.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
26237.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
韓國瑜院長及副堃席總召受習近平的指示這是一個非常政治的議題所以我們來探討一下這樣的一個字眼是用以吐血民進黨造謠利用認知作戰打擊在野黨院長這是一個非常嚴重的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
26239.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
26263.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
你說在臺灣我們是擁護國家國安的立場而且是維護國家的安全尤其是民意代表我們是維護人民的權益跟維護人民的安全一樣那請問院長你是國安會的擔任成員嗎是不是是好 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
26264.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
26278.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
根據《國安法》在《國家安全法》的會議組織第4條,行政院院長是國家安全會議的出席人員。那院長不只是出席國安會議,還要熟悉會議內容並落實會議的決議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
26283.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
26309.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
國安會中曾經討論過認知作戰對國安的危害除了中共對我發動認知作戰為我國還面臨哪一個方向的認知作戰你來回答一下好不好跟委員抱歉到行政院這麼一段時間以來我還沒有正式參加過正式的國安會議目前來講當然我們國防部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
26311.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
26312.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
任次的作戰。來,略行。 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
26324.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
26339.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
剛剛我也提過官會中曾經討論認識作戰對國家的危害除了中共對我們發動認識的作戰我國面臨的哪一些認識作戰的問題將來以後我們怎麼樣去應對跟面臨我們的認識作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
26348.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
26348.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
好,我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
26378.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
26404.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
剛剛你提的任職作戰是對著是這樣的議題而不是任職作戰是今天用一些不少的一個宣講針對傅昆吉或是我們韓院長的這樣的一個任職作戰是說他是代為我們習近平的這些代言人我說這樣的一個做法民進黨這樣的一個策略這樣會 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
26406.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
26423.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
會造成了我們國內的團結。另外就是說,認知作戰不是對內,我們應該是共同對外,如何防範這一些將以後對我們國家危及到安全才是這樣的一個議題啊,是吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
26427.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
26438.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
我想我們面對中國可能的認知作戰,我們都隨時要有警惕跟切心。我們要這裡呼籲的是避免中國藉由認知作戰來 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
26441.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
26441.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
（6月25日（ |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
26459.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
26462.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
海昆縣目前已進行了破崗的測試,破崗的情況有順利嗎?另外有消息指出 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
26485.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
26506.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
光電的尾港五月底已經到貨到現在已經將近一個月了那是否已經完成破港測試何時會進入到海上的測試因為尾港是一個非常重要的一個光電尾港是一個非常重要的一個儀器 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
26509.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
26536.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
部長,你來回答一下。我的了解是都已經交運完畢了,那也現在正在進行博港的測試。那麼都有依照相關的節點來進行。那我沒有辦法在這裡跟委員說明說,大概博港測試大概什麼時候會完畢。但是一旦博港測試完成之後,就接續會進行海上測試。我想這個都依照相關的節點。這邊我必須提醒我們部長, |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
26537.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
26562.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
根據過去各國潛艦造艦的期程沿行艦從下水到沉浸至少要兩年以上而像日本這樣的一個工業大國參隆級潛艦從下水到沉浸也花了大約一年半的時間海昆艦在去年的9月底命名為下水我們最首次造潛艦 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
26565.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
26583.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
其間部分的裝備又延遲按照理論上跟比起其他的國家更多的時間才能成軍本席提醒這個僭建國造一定要以安全為率為優先千萬不要敢進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
26585.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
26586.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
海昆號的海上的進行測試的時候,你們願意登艦一起下這個潛艦測試嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
26608.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
26609.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
臺船董事長鄭文榮也表達了 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
26630.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
26650.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
他會登艦見證海昆的潛艦在各式測試項目黃淑匡可能也會共同登艦出海見證歷史性的一刻海昆線下艦的最重要的里程碑本期建議時任的院長和部長應該要主動參與下艦測試以提高國人潛艦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
26656.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
26659.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
國照的一個信心也提振國情 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
26662.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
26688.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
我認為相關的海事這個是屬於專業的不是我們要去院長或者部長要去做秀的一個地方。 是做秀。 潛艦的完成代表國家一個非常重要的軍事的發展的階段我們應該用很慎重來看它在艦上的所有官兵都是國家賦予重責大任的一時之選測試的過程當中也許工程的測試是另外一種但正式的 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
26689.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
26707.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
下海這個下潛這個測試那絕對是一個很重要的行為所以不是我們去那邊告訴大家說我們願意來的這個情況我想我本人或許部長也應該我們沒有這個能力的資格我們可以從其他方式來讓國家認為我們跟他站在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
26710.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
26735.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
要站在國監的角度裡面提升國監的士氣應該要勇於去面對或者是...我們會適時的來發布相關的這個測試的狀況。你是新任你應該發表表達更有力更讓國監能夠覺得士氣的高昂那另外就是有關於聯合立見2024A |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
26738.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
26755.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
中共到今年的5月23日進行聯合立憲2024A的經驗請問一下部長在這裡在遠溪區城市示意圖裡面哪一個訓練區最為值得關注?你看一下這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
26756.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
26777.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
跟委員報告他這一次2024歷經演習A他只有畫了一個一個那個演習區的一個大致上的一個圖他並沒有標示正確的經緯度所以事實上他演習的區域跟他現在標記的位置也沒有完全的重疊這一個就是讓你眾生 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
26779.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
26807.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
這個縱深的意義是什麼是從西到東部他縱深裡面是臺灣因為和大陸距離太近暫時的前線後方難以區分必須要用各種方式創造部隊的緩衝空間這個空間就是縱深縱深從西部到東部劃掉一道線這個就是一個非常重要的一個戰略的一個線這是我要讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
26813.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
26827.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
國防部刻意淡化這一次的聯合力氣2024A在威脅性在這一張演習區示意圖裏面最值得關注的就是花蓮外海的演習區它正面 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
26828.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
26840.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
（6月25日（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
26845.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
26864.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
我們國際戰力我們的海峽中線已經弄丟了弄丟了所以這個是非常嚴重非常嚴重那另外就是6月13號共經無人機也抵抵近花蓮海海外海39海里讓我們利用他 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
26865.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
26893.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
地形的優勢建立了戰力保存在受到威脅部長如果搞不清楚狀況的話事態將會非常的嚴重我們從來沒有輕忽這個您講的這個歷屆演習他不管是用示意圖的方式或是他在相關的實際作為上面對我們來參與我們來調整這一個國土防衛構想的一個重要的參與這個我想我們高度的重視在之前這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
26895.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
26899.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
當然我們戰力保存是我們在演練的第一個首要的重點當然接下來還有整體防空、海上聯合階級等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
26924.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
26948.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
這些都是在我們眼內的項目之一。暫時保存是特別的重要。那對於另外也是對於柴油的經用車輛設定戰鬥模式的模式設的問題當初為避免柴油經用車輛因暫時無法取得尿素導致動力不足國防部採取了應對的措施是什麼那另外我這特別要講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
26950.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
26976.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
這一些車輛更改設定後的檢測都正常嗎?不正常。第二個,用來更改車輛設定的設備是否符合規定?規範不會符合。那另外據了解提供戰鬥模式設定服務的某個廠商在未經廠商車輛原廠授權下私下採用紅色令大陸製作的設備以 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
26979.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
27004.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
山寨版的設定軟體經行為國新提供服務。 部長,你知不知道這個事情,你要調查清楚啊。跟委員報告,那個我們已經完成車輛戰鬥模式的設定,可以在尿素缺乏的時候呢,車輛的性能不受限制。那另外也建立了尿素的存量跟持續性合約上來籌補,現存的量供 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
27004.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
27009.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
我剛剛已經提出了有大陸的大陸的產品在裡面就紅色鏈所以這個就是你們最反對的那所以你們要了解清楚那另外是這一張圖你看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
27028.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
27048.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
這是原真科技公司的簡介上面清楚寫到深圳市原真科技股份有限公司成立於1992年臺灣則有設立分公司這是一個非常嚴重的事情影響國安的案件本席要求國防部第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
27050.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
27056.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
調查該大陸設備與軟體是否植入非法城市有相關的一體車輛 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
27061.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
27086.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
這個相關軍用車輛上國防如何補救。（第二目前已提供戰鬥模式設定服務廠商其報價落差每輛車輛新台幣一萬兩千六至六千兩百六萬兩千七百等不等報價差距高達五倍軍方是否落實來詢價而且調查這樣的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
27090.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
27114.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
因為這是非常嚴重因為我這邊已經調查清楚麻煩你們在一個禮拜內把這些細數的報告要給本席作為追溯未來是否有引用這個黃色鏈這個部分我下來了解一下以後馬上跟委員回應謝謝委員 像這樣重大的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
27118.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
27118.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
臨近現委員臨近現委員臨近現委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
27160.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
27161.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
麻煩再請卓院長備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
27172.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
27190.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
院長好賴清德總統昨天已經表明針對藍白國會擴權的惡法會向憲法法庭申請釋憲及暫時處分以守護國家的憲政體系也深化台灣的民主守護人民的權利那其實不只總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
27192.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
27215.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
行政院還有立法院的民進黨團還有監察院也都有表態要申請釋憲那然而我想在違憲疑慮都還沒有獲得釐清之前民眾黨的黃國昌宣稱要立刻啟動國會聽證調查那請問院長你怎麼看民眾黨這樣的作為那依行政院的立場要對在野黨有什麼樣的呼籲 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
27216.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
27221.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
謝謝委員就是因為包括總統府、行政院跟監察院 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
27222.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
27249.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
都提出了對這個法案違憲的一些疑慮所以都有接下來的包括立法院黨團民進黨黨團所以我們想應該在維持憲政秩序穩定的狀態底下應該讓大法官的憲法法庭做最後裁定之後這個法到底可行不可行違憲不違憲那時候才會確定下來在此之前我認為所有的憲政機關都應該以穩定憲政為前提 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
27252.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
27278.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
為優先應該按耐不動不要去碰觸將來可能違憲的事情否則任何一個國人任何一個民意代表牽涉到違憲的情況之下他的責任是沒有辦法去比擬的行政院對來就是我們會依照是憲政機關的角色跟我們應該有的職責我們會嚴厲但今天這個法案昨天剛剛總統簽過還沒有正式生效我們生效之後才有下一步的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
27279.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
27301.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
那再來要跟院長討論就是說中國最近說要嚴懲台獨份子那不但可以進行缺席審判那最重要還可以辦到死刑那我想在臺灣每個人都是台獨份子每個人也可以都不是台獨份子怎麼說呢首先只是生活在臺灣只要生活在臺灣我想每一個人每一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
27302.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
27302.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
（6月25日（ |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
27332.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
27359.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
根據中國的標準你覺得你自己背了幾條死罪然後對於中國的放話你有什麼樣的回應因為他對我們沒有司法管轄權所以我不認為我背任何死罪我活著為台灣就好了所以一個不民主而且法治不完備的政權透過他的法治不完備來侵犯台灣的民主這是天大的笑話所以我說行政院的立場保護在國內的國民 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
27360.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
27389.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
也希望我們去到國外的人因為你有這張護照你必須去到當地國因為你可以進出他就必須當地國政府必須保障你的人身自由但是要去到大陸不管你做任何的訪問或是往來你必須清楚知道有沒有能力保護你自己因為他現在對我們是非常消極的但是手段是非常惡毒的你必須能夠保護自己否則我們真的勸全國的國人應該三思而後行 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
27391.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
27408.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
對,因為就是如同您說的,中國無權來恣意對我國國民進行所謂的制裁。那可是一旦踏入您所說的就像踏入中國一樣,或者踏入比他跟中國友好而且親友司法引渡條例的這個國家,那我想我們就不可不慎了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
27409.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
27434.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
好那接下來要跟院長討論就是說立委附中納管的問題也就是沈博洋委員首先提出的那本席跟多位民進黨委員也有後續提出那像我本席的案子今天又在國民黨跟民眾黨聯手之下在程序委員會被封殺了齁好那這個條例就是兩岸人民關係條例的修正案那在我們的提案中有規範與國家秘密 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
27435.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
27463.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
國家安全相關人員若要前往中國就必須要行前申請經過審查而且在中國如果跟黨政軍相關人員有接觸還要申報他接觸的這個狀況交往的情形跟內容那當然我們很清楚知道我們的提案是以台灣保護台灣國家安全的立場為出發點那在中國無所不用其極的打壓台灣的主權跟國人安全的狀態之下我想為了維護國人的安全立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
27464.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
27491.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
及牽涉國家秘密人員的納官附中納官附中納管的規範我覺得就相當的重要實際上我國立委附中交流有極高的機率是因為民選公職的身份會涉及台獨就像中國現在宣示他這種處罰條款會最終會羅織這很多的莫名的罪狀他會送辦所以請問院長如果在這樣的狀況之下我國 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
27492.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
27492.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
那院長你怎麼看? |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
27511.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
27529.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
謝謝委員,也許換一個角度來看,立委是國會議員,也是國家重要的政治工作者,他要去到一個我們認為不是安全的地方,如果讓政府能夠提早事先知道,或是國會裡面有一套自我管理的這個權利,我們也會比較有能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
27530.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
27551.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
知道他的行蹤能夠預先知道他的危險性從這個角度來看是不是可以支持這個而且這不是一種管理的方式這只是讓大家掌握更多的國家資源跟重要人士的進出國門的這個狀態那麼他去到一些安全的國家我們甚至我們不會對他有任何的了解都不需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
27552.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
27561.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
但是去到特殊的地方不安全的地方對人生有威脅的地方我想政府跟人民都有這樣的義務來保障國家重要的資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
27562.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
27589.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
另外跟院長說明5月29日本席在內政委員會有質詢立委副中納管這個問題的時候那時候梁文傑副主委他的回應是說就立委會的立場而言前往中國接受虛數審查的人員在現行兩岸人民關係條例裡面其實就有包括立法院的人員但是長久以來立法院都沒有按照兩岸人民關係條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
27590.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
27612.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
所要求去提列那些前往中國的人員那梁副主委有強調他說針對立法院長期違規的這件事情陸委會曾經行文立法院那立法院從來沒有回覆那從經察院到地方法院到全國各機關人員都會接受附中的審查可是唯獨立法院不遵守 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
27612.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
27636.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
那我想在這個質詢之後那個梁副主委陸委會也進一步透過書面的回答他說實務上政府總統除了立法院之外的四院院長、政務官、地方首長跟及其機關內所涉及國家安全利益跟機密業務的人員其實都依人民兩岸關係條例第9條跟國家機密保護條 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
27637.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
27637.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
請問院長﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
27662.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
27670.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
對於立法院知法犯法的行為這個開法了嗎那該如何要嚴格執法讓立法院可以遵守這個規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
27672.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
27695.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
我舉這個在過去的執行過程當中我必須承認這個可能過去並沒有在這個重點上去做任何的處理但是我是尊重大院裡面對未來修法的過程但是還是希望經過民主的討論是公開的討論那現在重要的人士去到中國大陸我們都覺得對他的人身安全確實很有擔心我這兩天就很擔心王前院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
27697.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
27709.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
我希望他安全的回來告訴我們將來如何保護自己的安全如果這個是一個過程的話那我們希望說能夠促進大家更有效的對自己人身安全的顧慮跟保障這個才是重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
27709.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
27730.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
好,那再來要跟院長談到中正紀念壇的轉型的問題。利用國家資源,然後強迫全民浪費紀念獨裁者,這件極度不合理的事情,我從大學時期就一路反對到現在。在教育委員會裡面,包括李永德部長、史哲部長、現在的李遠部長也都被我質詢過這一題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
27732.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
27756.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
那我想在院會我也跟孫昌院長討論過就是促轉會提出任務總結報告後各部會的轉型正義的工作的交接狀況那根據促轉會的總結報告我進一步有在院會跟陳建仁院長有討論過在中正進黨的轉型的過程中有一件事情是此時此刻我們就可以做的就是撤離三軍儀隊又或者至少讓三軍儀隊離開堂體 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
27759.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
27787.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
改註所在升旗台那裡（那（把原先對獨裁者的崇拜轉換則對國家的效忠。（那6月11日顧部長有回答邱志偉委員的答詢的時候您個人的看法有說一對是可以移到自由廣場進行操練也等於說回應了本席長期的倡議喔那不過今天想要進一步跟院長跟部長請教的是第一若使這些作為的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
27789.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
27819.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
第二,就是上一次針對這項議題的詢答,昨天院長也有提到說,如果三軍一隊駐守在中列慈,那這種代表的是我們對壯烈犧牲官兵的尊敬,那造成的爭議就不會像住房在中正建堂那麼大。換句話說,三軍一隊為什麼住房的背後的意義跟論述非常的重要?所以我們現在才回頭來請教,那三軍一隊如果真的移往所謂的自由廣場,那它的代表的意義是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
27820.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
27822.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
國防部副委員操練的意義是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
27822.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
27824.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
是觀光嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
27824.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
27839.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
部長先回答。 跟委員報告,因為三菁儀殿現在有關他要如何進行操演,現在是文化部在主管。 那我們觀光部已經跟文化部已經經過,我不曉得應該有一兩三次的協調。 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
27841.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
27843.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
所以是文化部主導嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
27843.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
27843.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
我們國防部是完全配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
27868.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
27887.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
國防部完全配合文化部,所以文化部在規劃。 議長拜託這個時間不要再拖了。我期待下一個會期的質詢就不要再質詢這個議題了。 我們都應該承認中正紀念堂的定義跟他的意義社會上還是存在不同的看法的。那我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
27888.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
27906.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
國防部跟文化部就是在掃尋一個大家最能夠接受共識最高的方式同樣表達我們對國家過去歷史的一個認知但是也讓更多的民眾可以在更寬廣的地方看得到這種儀隊的表演代表國家的一種軍隊文化對國家的效忠對沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
27907.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
27923.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
好那拜託這件事情儘速處理假設有共識的話那另外我想最後要跟院長探討五一勞動節全國一致性放假這個議題喔院長其實這個議題本身做了很久我在2020選第一次立委的時候就把這個議題放進我的政見裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
27924.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
27953.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
那當上立委之後我就馬上跟當時的蘇貞昌院長提議這件事情那後來陳建仁院長上任我也一直跟他倡議那我想對於勞動解放假這個議題本席不斷的跟中央真的耳提面面那好不容易在去年在今年陳建仁院長有說好好的要來研議那可能會有一些共識要作為全國性一致放假的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
27953.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
27954.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
．6月30日 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
27970.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
27998.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
前會公布今年的行事曆那表示明年的行事曆今年6月30號會公布那所以好我想要請問院長的是這件事情到底有沒有譜就是說明年五一勞動節全面放假這件事確實如委員所說這個明年的行事曆現在在行政院裡面他正在尋一定的程序在往上來處理那 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
27999.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
28024.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
我們對於勞工的尊重跟理解我們五一勞動節是勞工有放假但是其他的也有類似這樣的單一職業別或類別的假期是沒有放假的那這個我們從常來規劃因為我們現在全國一年當中的放假日已經達到117天了117天比過去又多了幾天所以在這樣的情況底下我們必須考慮到勞僱雙方的關係還有整個社會其他層面的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
28025.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
28052.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
但是現在既然這個案已經在院內裡面在處理我們就用一種全新的感覺去感覺說這個到底對社會的因為院長這個假日是對這個產業衝擊最小因為本來就放假產業本來就放假反而是軍公教不放假這個假設是一個學校的話一個公立學校那老師學生都要去上課可是由裡面的工友裡面的雛工 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
28052.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
28054.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
假日對於家庭就是一個所謂的全家享天倫之樂的一個很好的規劃。 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
28082.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
28103.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
我們再繼續研究,謝謝委員指教,謝謝。謝謝林益錦委員的諮詢,也謝謝卓院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第5號王定宇委員諮詢改書面諮詢。我們再接下來請登記第6號陳永康委員諮詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
28119.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
28133.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
主席各位立委同仁各位今天與會的部會首長大家午安特別感謝今天給我這個機會那麼有機會跟院長請議請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選陳國賢好院長好我今天回想到在10年前 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
28147.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
28167.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
我也曾經就站在您的左邊這個位置﹖當年是面對立委的質詢﹖因為誤換心儀﹖這個角色互換﹖當年質詢我的委員﹖很多今天都成為您內閣的菁英閣員﹖雖然角色互換了﹖但是對國家安全的期許﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
28168.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
28187.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
社會福祉的維持人民權益的維護應該是理想不變眼光不變因此我覺得今天質詢中間的距離啊不會那麼遠那麼個人過去在40年的軍旅生涯中間呢大部分都是直來直往那麼有的時候也就是貫徹命令 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
28189.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
28206.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
我個人感受我可能是立法院裡面用語言表達最不適宜、最不妥善的一位委員。 所以我幾乎要用圖表來協助向院長請議。 在3月12日的時候在前任的陳院長期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
28207.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
28235.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
我們曾經提到了人才培養軍事教育訓練以及國家安全戰略的法制化另外還有一部分就是未來的醫療系統科技的管理在這裡面因為當時我們得到共識雖然現在的狀況產生了微微的變化但是我個人覺得這個題目還是有延伸性很高興顧部長現在已經主動到台前我們這邊可以看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
28236.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
28250.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
我們國家安全的目標是所有國人必須要知道的事。國家安全的方向是因為部會各部會都要掌握的事。至於國家安全的手段是執行必須要落實的事。 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
28252.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
28278.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
由於我們目前沒有法定的國家安全戰略的文件﹖所以資源分配上是不平均﹖跨部會的協商有它的困難﹖策略的執行不容易﹖法制不夠周延﹖這個問題是二、三十年前一路累積下來的﹖不是針對性的﹖但是因為施政不容易同步﹖政策難以持續﹖因此在各個層級任務編組過多﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
28280.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
28293.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日上午1時50分為處理� |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
28294.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
28304.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
28325.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
28326.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
國家安全社會堅韌民心安地經濟繁榮軍事堅強太海和平 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
28355.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
28383.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
他所有的連結都跟治安有關但實際上他的外圍包括了就是國家安全戰略的八個面向政治外交經濟軍事這涉及到兩岸的關係能源社會醫療產業他是基建基礎建設所以我們要做管控分歧做風險控管做情勢的控管做衝突的控管 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
28385.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
28402.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
在基建部分是風險、禦印、災難管制、災害管制、災損管制。 在這個環節內,我們政府的領導、總統、國安會、行政院、國防外交、陸委會是環環相扣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
28404.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
28428.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
現在的總統提出了新的委員會當然可能是跟我們部分行政院的工作是有部分重疊所以他這個組織架構下將來希望在建制的框架下比較有明確的定義這樣在有限的資源分工下是比較可以落實希望不要重複浪費人力但是成果我們是希望累積 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
28431.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
28443.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
各位看一下這個就是我們國家安全戰略發展的一個方式這是一個methodology在圖的右側是國內情勢影響及趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
28444.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
28461.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
在左側是全球環境影響及趨勢,左邊是動態比較大,右邊是國內的靜態比較可控制,但是這兩項產生的因素都直接影響到我們的評估,也就是我們的幾個重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
28462.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
28485.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
范畴包括兩岸政策外交政策國防政策經濟政策能源政策資安政策未還政策人口政策這個都是國安戰略裡面的環節而不是純軍事的問題現在再把總統提出來的這幾個重點再跟原先列舉動態靜態相關的我們把它的重疊領域性找出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
28486.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
28514.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
理想的過程常常我們常說無縫接軌但是無縫接軌實際上只有單線鐵路叫無縫接軌如果有雙線交叉有多重配置必然會有重置性而不是單一的想法那最後我用美國的國家安全戰略來顯示我們跟美國學習了這麼多年但是精髓啊並沒有完全掌握到 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
28515.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
28539.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
他的國家安全戰略裡面包括了國家的利益目標還有他的優先順序那麼如何去整合國家的實力包括國家安全的方向但是他下面的國防戰略就跟他有重疊性包括戰略的背景因素包括戰略的目的如何完成目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
28540.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
28562.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
實施國家安全戰略的方法論導引方式．最後風險的控管。．從國家安全戰略底下又有了國防軍事戰略也就是從上到下有他政策的指導由下到上有實力的支撐這上下之間要同步調現在看一下美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
28566.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
28587.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
每四年每兩年都出的刊物這都是公開的當然還有機密本我們在2021年出了我們的四年期國防總檢討那麼2023年出了我們的國防政策白皮書左側因為目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
28589.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
28596.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
沒有法定國家安全戰略的文件也就是沒有明確的從上到下的政策指導我在想這個顧部長日理萬機可能還沒有時間去看這兩本刊物這個我們的四年期國防總檢討一共48頁中間講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
28619.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
28644.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
國防戰略軍事戰略一頁半2023年的這個國防戰略軍事戰略在這本書裡面183頁講到戰略一共三頁半也就是說整本的書啊多半都是這個美編的圖集卡通示意圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
28646.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
28672.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
美國國會在2017年取消了四年期國防總檢討。我也面對過美國參加聽證的前政府官員。他說因為四年期總檢,雖然每四年發行一次,但每年開會,大部分是由下屬單位上百人共同創作,寫出這本東西來。因此他聚焦在美國國防產業區域性的利益。 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
28674.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
28685.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
（6月25日上午9時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理� |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
28701.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
28703.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
我們給各位看一張這個圖這是一個東北亞整個大區域的圖經過異地空間資訊系統的校正 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
28733.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
28745.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
這個是在總統就職之前去年的1月9號中共發射的火箭從西艙但是因為它是用平面的突擊來顯示這個狀況那麼產生了一些錯誤的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
28752.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
28780.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
如果能夠用3D的圖示顯示發射位置發射時間就發現它的衛星通過我們本島上空是600公里那算太空因此不形成威脅但是那一次啊發布了國家級的防空警報這個事過境遷但是國防部現在已經改進在這一次中共預備發射衛星可能是明天發射那麼國防部已經明速說這個是走太空並不影響我們的空域安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
28783.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
28812.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
這個是兩年前培洛西訪問造成中共一個威者武嚇的實彈軍演就是發射導彈飛越台灣上空但是當時我們並沒有用這個3D的圖像來做解釋所以只有左上角的那個平面顯示我們根據的資料國防部沒有發布是日本公布的所以根據這個資料我們來模擬看它產生的彈道實際上都是在太空平流程以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
28817.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
28822.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
這就是他的彈道拋物線那麼我們希望將來國防部跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
28824.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
28847.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
科技部甚至太空中心有橫向聯繫在衛星導控跟發射的軌跡部分能夠共同合作用這種圖像來看當時有三枚飛彈其實是飛越新竹科學園區那這個圖像目前我們國內尚沒有機會來做模擬展示但是這個告訴我們一個就是用二維的圖跟三維的圖你會有不同的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
28852.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
28868.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
有關剛才前面黃榮委員提到聯合立見我的建議是我們要把格局放大要有宏觀的大區塊也有圍觀的細節要把它整合起來所以我們看到並不是上面那塊上面這塊的圖是國防部發布的 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
28870.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
28896.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
我幫國防部的解讀是說他的巡邏區跟中共的不同 這個表示我們國軍拒止中共的艦機在24里之外但是共軍的圖是劃到12里 這表示我們國軍的付出辛勞是能夠守衛我們的疆土但是這個一般的老百姓看不懂圖 所以圖要套疊圖要校正 那麼同時各位看到右邊的這個圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
28898.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
28904.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
28921.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
28922.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
（6月25日．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
28939.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
28962.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
上面這個圖就是顯示這是今天早上7點30分我把共機擾台的圖機套到圖像上我們一定要用圖像套疊才能把不同的時間不同的位置不同的事件不同的動態最後研派出它不同的意圖做長官的判斷而不是用單一圖像 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
28963.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
28977.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
未來在國土辦公室或是在國防部乃至於國安會我建議設立這種模擬虛擬的戰情顯示可以把不同的場景圖像而不是開會每人帶張紙做個簡報長官非常難收斂這種動態變化的情勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
28984.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
28999.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
2月14日金門因為中共三無遺傳違法越界至於我們執法的過程中產生差狀這個問題還沒有解決當時我跟前院長在報告的時候我是列舉了14項 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
29001.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
29029.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
但是因為在狀況在變化所以我們繼續修正今天有18項這個法制的流程最後就是因為現在我們很多的依據是兩岸人民關係條例那麼事實上在太平島不在我們的領海基線化內所有的外島都不是我們的領海基線化定內所以在執法的過程上雙方的溝通用什麼條例來引述是很重要另外一個就是必須用標準的圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
29030.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
29032.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
（6月25日．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
29047.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
29076.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
共軍潛艦通過海峽那有許多的外面的媒體名嘴專家有各種的論述其實臺灣海峽的水非常淺尤其是在臺灣灘水深大概只有三四十公尺所以共軍的潛艦不管何潛艦傳統潛艦如果要回他的原造船船去修他一定是在海峽中線以西浮航那麼這張圖裡面包括海圖海底圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
29077.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
29078.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
（6月25日（6月25日下午5時 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
29107.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
29133.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
以當時的金門的雷達看,4點鐘就應該發現它了,所以國軍是有保持偵測到,只是老百姓公佈了以後,外面就產生了很多的敘述。我在這邊提出的是說不要看小區塊,要用整個一個大區塊圖,包括細緻的圖,包括當時海底圖,岸上的地藏圖,離岸風機,海上航行安全,用這個圖來做一個客觀的判斷。 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
29137.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
29153.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
剛才是一張衛照圖再套上南海的海圖再套上我們航空圖這都經過校正各位看這個航圖可以連接到海圖上面的菲律賓的基線是校正過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
29155.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
29178.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
這是所有南海人造島礁或是人工造島的島根據比例把它的標準位置把它顯示出來比方講今天的報紙講菲律賓在擴大新建中葉島在蓋機堡那中共當然是反彈但中葉島在1971年原來是我們的因為防台國軍撤離菲律賓佔領現在已經超過50年了繼承事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
29182.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
29206.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
目前在仁愛礁那邊我個人的研究菲律賓跟中共還是以海巡執法不會變成真正的軍事衝突但其中有一個重點就是黃岩島黃岩島是我們中華民國領海法裡面標註的但是這個外交部的立場要向非方表示 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
29208.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
29222.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
主權在運輸上是不讓但是在真正的海上執法過程中間很多還是可以探討但是這個要強調因為這是我們內政部公布的在左上角的臨海反面黃岩島是我們的臨海用這張圖來顯示一下如果我們建立一個虛擬的戰情勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
29233.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
29248.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
不管是在國防部不管是在行政院國土這個安全辦公室或者在國安會你可以透過資料庫我們現在已經建立這個資料檔所以你可以看到不同的裡面的圖像啊各個顯示出來動態繼續做動態的要向大家報告是因為我們立法院的電腦啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
29263.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
29267.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
29292.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
29298.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日（6月25日 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
29321.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
29349.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
攻擊老台的時候我們國安部展示我們把它驅離的位置在套上中共顯示的位置這名國軍把它驅離在24里並沒有讓它進到12里用這個共同圖像是可以提供所有做決策高階政策下達人一個客觀的判斷他是一個工具是一個方法論而不要用傳統的簡報圖每人三張紙這個時候高階長官是很難收斂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
29351.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
29367.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
現在就要談到教育了曾國藩曾經講過忠心以文才為本但今天很多年輕人也許不知道曾國藩是誰了 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
29368.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
29394.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
但健賢思齊有為者亦或是,我相信年輕人都知道,但現在的健賢思齊可能不是學者,可能不是政治人物,而是我們高科技,可能是台積電的張忠謀,可能是這個黃仁勳,年輕人優秀的通通都只要是理工的,通通足科去了,所以我們要看一下兩岸教育的投資, |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
29397.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
29420.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
這是我們國內前七大這是大陸的前七大清華大學最高它是臺大的五倍每人每年平均的投資費南京大學是最低的它也是海洋大學的4.03倍所以這個給我們一個警訊就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
29421.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
29444.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
大陸在人才培養上他跟你競爭他高科技但是他投資在教育上面那這個是國內的七大在跟我們國軍的學校軍事教育再做個比較臺大是我們軍事院校的2.8倍海大是最低的也是我們的1.3倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
29446.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
29474.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
但這邊我提請部長一個注意點就是根據美國國防安和局安全合作局他公布的資料過去10年來我們的軍售軍售投資就是Foreign military saleFMS總共是255億美元換算成台幣每年10年每年是770億投資在軍售但是我們的軍事教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
29476.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
29498.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
只有20餘億元如果不加速增加教育的投資提升軍校的數值我們是很難有效運用這些先進的武器做成有效的管理第一個所有武器裝備它的操作手冊、維保手冊、作戰準則教範全部是英文版 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
29499.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
29527.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
那那AIT的這個處長要調回國了．他曾經講說我們基層官兵的英文素質閱讀能力要趕快提升越先進的武器越好的裝備你不能夠瞭解他的操作手冊不瞭解他的準則教範所以我們將來軍售的投資不僅只於買武器裝備人才培養大幅提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
29528.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
29537.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
．6月25日．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
29556.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
29578.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
教育部有高等教育深耕計劃,今年編了100多億,但是國軍沒有在裡面有這個額度。在104年到106年,我當時曾經向當時的教育部長江偉寧爭取到給國防醫學院的這個經費,因此在當年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
29579.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
29604.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
八仙城報、粉城報、699個燒燙商．國軍收容了65個．零傷亡．為什麼．我們當時在那個經費．投資在燒燙商．那麼今天國家有任何意外災難．國軍的意願是全部投入．當時燒燙商、八仙城報的當天晚上．我們動員了300個醫生．護士、緊急人員． |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
29608.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
29610.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
（6月25日．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
29623.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
29648.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
因為我們每年都受到他的教學評鑑、師資評鑑。 我們用的是同一個標準的教育體制。 國軍不應該排除在外。 那至於我們國軍教育本身, 建請部長要考慮趕快提升教育經費。 因為老師的額度受限於編制, 但是我們可以請好手、請高手用特殊的講座方式。 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
29649.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
29653.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
報告委員我們有兩個學校包括國防醫學院跟理工大學已經在深耕計畫裏面我請部長再說明一下對我了解但是這個是國防部的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
29673.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
29700.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
我們建議由這個教育部來cover,就是說深耕計畫因為教育部可以統一申請,國防部不應該,國防部我自己撥給他就行了,隨便他叫什麼計畫,這個是可以區隔的,當然我們也肯定部長同意給他,但是這個額度是不夠的,也就是說一年花了770億美元台幣買裝備,但是投資在,我們這邊是寫8所,其實我們13所軍事院校, |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
29701.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
29724.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
整個的經費就這麼多所以要考慮未來有卓越的領導人才接受先進的武器系統要能夠管理要能夠有宏觀有世界觀能夠運用科技需要投資培養那麼最後一個我要做一個解釋我們中山科學院的基礎從1956年成立在1980年代這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
29729.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
29755.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
李國鼎先生推薦,毫不稱前院長從美國邀請了一個黃孝宗博士,他是美國NASA太空總署太空計劃火箭推進的主持人,做了兩個主持人回國,把中科院奠定了所有的基礎。那麼今天我們有6個所,5個中心,並擁有關鍵技術科研的21個案,全部是據證式的管理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
29756.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
29760.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
29781.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
29793.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
．6月25日．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．6月25日下午1 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
29801.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
29816.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
打破很多的計畫做出來可能數字高格三年後發現別人跟上我可以拿出來用所以研發計畫應該允許有失敗而不是零失敗那在這個層級水平的分割上面一定要有重置性 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
29818.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
29842.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
我曾經在中科院擔任董事也提供了建言尤其是部長是法律的專家很多的跟國外廠商的簽約的過程中間我們希望我們的法尊法治人員從開始就要介入今天設限於時間有限我的問詢到這邊我要請一下院長做一些您對今天看法的陳腐 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
29843.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
29860.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
非常謝謝陳委員。其實從陳委員21日到立法院到國會來以後在許多關鍵的時刻都聽不到委員的一些看法我就表示非常的敬佩尤其今天看到剛剛的3D的圖像我覺得那個給我們是一個相當大的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
29861.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
29861.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
市長﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
29890.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
29911.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
部長您這邊跟委員報告我想剛剛委員指教很多我上次去拜訪委員的時候委員也有展示有類似的這樣子的一個動態的一個戰警顯示然後給我們看我覺得這個國防部回去要確實是要好好研究一下像這樣子的一個這種比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
29912.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
29932.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
應該是三維吧,這種顯示的方式,我們應該會來研究一下。那你剛提到那個陸軍的那個UTM的我們現在也應該在進行當中,也就是要將他地圖要數位化就要採數位地圖,這個應該沒有問題。那另外就是說那個有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
29934.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
29946.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
軍事院校的這個教育行政的預算我們現在是列入作業維持會裡面那今年我們也打算要增加大概114年預算需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
29961.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
29963.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
謝謝陳永康委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長國防部的備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
29967.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
29995.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
報告委員會外交及國防委員會之質詢已詢答完畢。 我們謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席的答詢。 現在作以下決定。 下次會議進行經濟組之質詢。 報告委員會現在我們繼續處理覆議案。 本院民進黨黨團針對第18次會議報告事項第6案、15案、16案之決定提出覆議。 請公決案。 我們現在作以下決定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
29996.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
30001.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
令定期處理。 報告委員會本次會議進行到此為止。 我們現在散會。 謝謝主委長。 謝謝。 |