| IVOD_ID |
160287 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160287 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-20-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-16T10:06:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-16T10:18:31+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:46 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f9d2e74df98279df3702deb6167a1f6ca3fd8a5ba555e825f6a02a661f50ca45b268d5fed35f2e155ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
郭國文 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:06:45 - 10:18:31 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、經濟部、農業部及公平交易委員會就「防範中國大陸產品低價傾銷及透過台灣洗產地問題之因應策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席 我要先講一下 我每次在賴委員後面都等了很久賴世保 你不能稍微約束一下是 好再提醒一下賴世保委員好 謝謝主席有請莊部長還有彭署長以及江次長好 那個我們那個莊部長 江次長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
60.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長好 部長那個中國啤酒傾銷衝擊到台啤的員工的生計台啤公會來跟我澄清從竹南烏日散化的員工數從減少了三成到四成所以它的產業的衝擊傾銷造成市場被侵佔的情況底下是非常嚴重的現在我們在談席產地也有可能會被席產地我們可能看起來我們好像是加害者其實某個程度我們也是中國的被害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
61.89 |
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76.469 |
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所以這個問題你們要去面對這個問題的過程當中應該從兩頭思考我們不要成為加害者我們也不要成為被害者中國啤酒就是這種狀況啊你們現在的反省銷調查現在什麼時候做出認定產業認定的部分經濟部什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
100.615 |
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不知道6月底本來初步調查是4月20號要做出認定喔已經調查了已經在調查了那延長到什麼時候才要完成沒有延長就按照我們規定的一個進程沒有延長啊經濟部在認定我們請經濟部認定要快一點啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
101.315 |
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126.622 |
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是我們在進行損害市長你可能不清楚但是回去多了解一下再加快已經明明對台灣的產業已經造成這麼大的傷害這很明顯中國想要透過這種傾銷的手法把台灣的消費市場腹地化把台灣的消費市場內地化不只是消費市場而已還有製造市場的部分你去看江市長你曉不曉得啊越南的部分有沒有在做不鏽鋼線啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
129.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
151.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
美國商務部的DOC調查過 越南的不鏽鋼線其實使用是南韓進口的原料生產就我去了解過業者越南也沒有做不鏽鋼線的一個廠商那為什麼有高達一萬五千多噸從2023年到了這個2024年一萬八千多噸到現在三一季已經佔了15%都從越南進來的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
156.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
181.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
都從雲南進來囉所以台灣的產業有多大的衝擊而且還有一個那個部長這不是經濟部的事情而已經濟部我看一副狀況外還在看那些數字你看我們就是因為這樣子的情況底下我們是被害者進口產地的時候彭署長在後面有沒有加上一個進口的產地證明 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
185.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
212.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
報告委員那個進口產地要不要付產證那個別的貨物都有不同的規定對 就我知道有些產品就類似這不鏽鋼線的部分是不用的是不用的所以說越南進來你就是以為越南做 不是越南根本沒有那個產你沒有個產品溯源的機制嘛對啊結果搞了半天它越南是被洗產地的洗了產地越南成為加害者台灣的業者變受害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
214.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
236.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
主長你要去了解你要透過這種加入一個進口審查產地的證明才能夠避免台灣的產業被加害者同意嗎同意要去加強還有現在這種狀況嚴重到什麼程度呢這種就等於製造市場的被內地化 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
237.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
261.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這樣的情況底下齁 我跟你講情況要請那個部長還有經濟部跟財政部組成一個調查小組你們看起來我們被我們起產地好像我們是加害者其實我們被害者的項目我們才一併的要去調查啊部長有沒有同意不是這個不修剛線而已啊其他的處長剛剛有講很多都是不用付的你根本不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
263.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
273.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
不清楚就在那經濟部你要保護產業對不對台灣的產業對不對你要保護員工的就業就業機會對不對這樣的情況底下你們要不要組一個調查清楚來調查清楚兩位 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
275.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
297.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我想謝謝委員的提示這個部分我們會和經濟部一起來把這個事情來做一個好的處理避免台灣的製造市場也被內地化消費市場被內地化製造市場被內地化還有一種是消費市場跟製造市場同時都會被內地化那個莊部長我再讓你看一個數字最近大家有在討論這個電商的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
299.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
326.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這中國電商也有傾銷的問題這傾銷的數字我讓你看一下中國從2022年到2024年因為他用低價傾銷什麼方式就補助運費嘛99塊以下的人民幣不用運費的情況底下這種變相的低價傾銷的方式以至於讓他的整個市佔率高達64.4%而且你如果再加上香港再加上澳門 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
327.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
350.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
整個進口的這一個電商的部分港中澳中港澳加起來超過八成八 將近九成這也是很清楚的把台灣的消費市場內地化的一個結果嘛這會影響到什麼 影響到消費市場 影響到製造市場啊這非常嚴重啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
352.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
365.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以你去看類似這一種變相的這種補貼的方式達到低價傾銷的一個目的的這種做法我要請問一下你有沒有類似反傾銷制裁方式 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
367.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
386.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
部分因為都是小的包裹不同的消費者這個部分然後他的貨品也很分散大部分什麼生活上的一些小東西或者是小的家電之類的這個部分那當然這個部分所謂的第一個是小包裹的量快速成長而且透過我們的海運快遞進來你現在在描述現狀我在問你如何解決問題你一直在描述現狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
391.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
418.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
現階段來說我們的免稅額度是兩千元這個部分有沒有可能差別待遇化其他的國家沒有這種低價請銷的情況有低價請銷的中國就把它降為一千或者其他國家有低價請銷我們要把它降為一千有沒有可能是委員這個方向我們也會納入一起考慮這個部分本來就是目前我們在你們要納入計畫喔這要差別待遇因為要用這種方式遏止這種不當的請銷嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
420.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
426.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
對國內的產業也會受到傷害我同意委員的觀點你知道淘寶在幾年前一直想要進入台灣的市場裡頭只有三次要進入投審會都沒有通過就他轉個彎用什麼方式他用下一個廣告公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
445.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
460.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
用廣告公司來達到營運的事實啊就是廣告公司營運的事實的情況底下你知道嗎這種廣告公司進來這又是100%由阿里巴巴集團所投資設立的叫香港這個淘寶國際產業結果呢他在這邊一樣達到營運的事實啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
466.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
483.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那你完全拿他沒轍嗎結果你知道嗎這會變成什麼早期有一段時間我們的這個電商的各自外流就達成詐騙犯案的結果嘛所以這裡頭有牽扯到各自的管理還有牽扯到什麼因為違禁商品上架的問題你完全沒有辦法管理他 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
484.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
500.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
市長 這問題要怎麼處理第一個 你要去思考這個各自的問題要去跟速發部來做個協調總共有高達多少我們2024年從中國進口的小額免稅的商品高達3337萬個比我們人口數還多1000萬如果以六次滿額來計算的話你至少有556萬人來使用淘寶 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
512.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
535.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
就確診到各自的人數是如此之多喔市長這非常嚴重喔你要怎麼處理我們會跟數位部來做不是數發部處理而已你不是跟數發部講而已還要跟他講你要如何落地監管的問題嘛他等於繞個彎不經過你的投審思嘛對不對這種情況底下是不是要考慮廢止淘寶國際產業的這個投資許可 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
538.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
557.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們核准淘寶因為它是電子資訊服務業就是如同剛才委員所說的它去年雙11的時候有做了相關的廣告其實我們經濟部已經對於這家公司進行了相關的裁罰相關的裁罰不夠啦對不對它的盈利這麼大你的行政裁罰能夠裁罰多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
559.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
582.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們而且呢除了這個以外我們也要求他要改正如果沒有改正呢如果連續的情況底下他明明就是這樣營業的方式啊他是繞個彎啊你必要的時候應該要廢止許可才對啦否則的話你就落地你這個投審會的功能就不在啦就等被架空啊不是嗎必要的時候我們可以要求他撤資好必要的時候要求撤資我就等你這句話好最後一個部分齁那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
584.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
611.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你知道那個部長上一次有關於這個Anytech的部分新加坡的這個資金很難辨識他進來以後變化股權香港更難辨識這種香港更難辨識的情況底下有一些進來之後的這個部分的資金的資本屬性的轉化的過程當中有沒有可能一個至親的機制那個次長這個部分我要請你跟那個陸委會溝通一下因為今天陸委會沒有來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
612.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
626.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
也就是中資的認定要怎麼認定以前港澳資基本上我們把它視為外資還把它視為第三地喔對不對可是現在隨著港澳內地化的情況底下中國的屬性越來越高這資本屬性應該是不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
628.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
643.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這種不同的情況底下他隱含的就是中資的色彩未來越高嘛那這個部分你有沒有可能以前以港資澳資澳資進來的這些人你要求他類似像陸配一樣自清一下說我呢基本上沒有受到中資的實質控制權有沒有可能那個次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
644.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
671.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
有的我們對於這些業者其實都要他們來做切結我們也很擔心是假外資真中資的情形所以這個部分現在有進行切結然後未來在股權變動的時候我們也會要求這些外資如果有任何股權的變動從現在開始要求起我們已經開始了最根本的方式你們應該跟陸委會講清楚港澳條例該改要改 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
672.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
678.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
港澳之間的這個資本屬性已經中資化的情況底下我們要把它視為中資來看待你同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
679.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
702.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
是 我們再跟陸委會來進行相關討論好好 最後我再請那個部長說一下因為天然災害的結果有很多青龍的權益也受損 沒有收入天然災害的結果然後有一些資金的一些貸款的部分請部長好好思考一下該優惠應該有優惠 該展期應該讓它展期請那個部長回去思考一下好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝郭委員 謝謝部長 |