| IVOD_ID |
160247 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160247 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-16T11:56:43+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-16T12:11:05+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:22 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f9d2e74df98279dfd3b80bcf903a1c95d598beef862d51bb1a52cf64e50924c011952e407ee502b55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:56:43 - 12:11:05 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長就「面對國際經貿情勢瞬變，我國如何因應並確保藥品、醫療器材等各面向供應正常，保障國人權益。」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【4月16日及17日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
47.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長好部長一早上我都有聆聽你在達沃修委員的提出質疑還有一些相關重點的回應,基本上都還蠻OK不過我這個請在修正後整理幾個點,也請給部長做一些參考請指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
53.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
其實這個川普預告藥品也可能納入關稅的清單在這個當下同時在14日就前天也啟動了調查半導體與半導體製造設備及藥品與藥物原料 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
90.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
包含這個陳敏藥進口對美國國家的安全的影響所以他就會繼續引發各國對進口藥價的上漲的高度緊張這個是必然但是台灣的健保也是高度依賴進口藥物尤其是癌症藥的藥品應該有18次來自美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
95.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
122.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這也是不爭的事實對不對那同時國際藥廠在台灣剛剛已經有講到已經就是沒有直接在這邊投資的生產的這個藥廠啦以前還有石家嘛但是講那個說因為台灣的市場很小所以所以就是這樣離開這個我倒很難認同我在這邊就我的理解像新加坡新加坡有些藥廠是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
125.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
145.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
阿斯利康他設施數億美元在新加坡的國內去設廠按人口、按土地面積台灣都大過於新加坡了所以這個等一下我們再來討論我是先跟部長提醒這同時國際藥廠原廠要仰賴進口輸入佔健保會的支出高達七成以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
152.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
163.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
另外根據經濟部的統計藥品及醫用化學品2023出口值是17.8億那進口值是66億所以藥品貿易的利差高達48.2億的美元我想從這些數據會顯示台灣這個醫藥品依賴進口的程度是非常大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
173.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
200.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這也是一個事實嘛對不對所以部長昨天有接受媒體採訪的時候你的回應是這樣表示全民健康保險要務幾戶項目及支付標準已訂定明確規範未來藥品價格調漲將依照規定進行成本分析並向健保署提出相關申請再依據這個核准結果調整要價不會影響國內藥品進口這是部長的答案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
203.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
213.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
政府正確?這可能要分兩段,一個是在福祉國內...那你在答詢的時候有沒有分兩段? |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
214.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
238.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
對,我的意思就是說只要進口的有漲價,有社道專制的影響,當然我們有一個機制來讓他來不要賠本嘛,就是能夠在健保就會漲價嘛那當然第二個就是我們在盡量,剛剛委員也提到嘛,我們盡量來扶植國內的,這又是另外一個很重要的一個政策在努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
240.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
249.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我只是要再請教說部長如果達戶這樣是正確的只不過是分兩段我把它併在一塊這樣說明是比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
251.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
278.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
比較不精準啦,是不是這樣?還是其實你確實就是講這樣嘛?對啦,我要講的就是這樣子這個有工會是有提出相關的一些警告啦他們表示今年健保要求正在進行健保要價的政策改革嘛那現在你又遇到美國關稅變革之際是不是會衝擊這個國外藥廠蘇台的意願?所以到時候不是只有價格的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
279.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
283.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
絕對不是只有價格的問題然後國外的藥廠到底願不願意把藥賣到台灣的問題喔這個你們有沒有評估過 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
293.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
316.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
來跟委員說明一下就是說在我們這一次的這個藥價調整裡面呢對於這個過專利期的我們就是所謂的第二類藥我們會去參考10國的藥價去做藥價的調整我想大家可能在關切這些進口商關切的是這一種可是因為它是過了專利期在其他各國都是快速的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
317.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
336.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
來節省藥費那麼對於參考10國我們參考這10國都是比我們GDP高的國家所以我們也不認為說這樣是會強害到台灣的進口商的意願只要是成本不合都可以按照我們支付標準的34條來提出申請來適時的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
341.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
好,這個是署長你的答覆。工會現在有提出三個建言,你們看一下,請部長跟署長看一下。第一個是由經濟部,其實今天經濟部沒有來是很奇怪一件事情。經濟部設立生技外銷統籌窗口,積極協助國內廠商。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
359.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
384.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那第二項是簡化台灣藥品市場准錄程序經美國歐盟核准處方藥建立簡化縮短台灣食藥署藥品查驗流程加速提升新藥可進國外藥廠輸給醫院那第三是調整健保署藥價改革措施你們怎麼看這樣的建議好我想第一個當然經濟部這個部分我相信是應該有 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
385.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
406.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
有這樣的窗口那當然這個部分我們再跟經濟部來請教那第二項就請食藥署江署長跟委員報告一下蔡委這邊我簡單的說明有關於台灣藥品市場進入的程序裡面特別提到美國的話就是FDA歐盟就是EMA裡面的核准的處方用藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
407.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
430.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那我們針對處方的用藥其實在國內的審核的機制裡面我們也有一些加速審核的機制如果國外已經審核的部分我們目前其實希望能夠去簡化它能夠達成新藥能夠新的療效國人有機會能夠快速使用到這些先進的用藥的方式這剛剛你都有答悟過我說針對這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
432.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
454.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對 國會提出的健額對策 你們原則上可以接受吧只有在新藥的部分比較有考量這個90天內 剩下不到90天 到時候會有什麼變化沒有誰抓得準啦 對不對因為這個川普的變化太大了 現在當然幕僚給他什麼建議他或許會聽 也或許不會聽 也或許聽了他又改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
456.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
483.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以你很難抓個準嘛 但是因為因為這種重要的物資我們不能要缺藥的時候才來做相關的醫療所以我們要相關的預防機制嘛原則上是沒有錯嘛 對不對對於新藥的部分加速對於一般學名藥的部分我們其實覺得它會強力的衝擊到國內的一些藥廠的發展所以要做整體的一些考量 以上的說明好 反正我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
484.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
509.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
納入參考然後積極來做一些應變應該是這樣我想不只是這個現在帶以上的公會發聲連國內的三大製藥公會都有一些建議也領著發表聲明台灣應該仿效歐美日等國家以政策手段引導國產料品訓練藥提升療效跟品質這剛剛特別都有提到了建立醫病對國產料品的信心並鼓勵醫院採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
527.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
但是台灣一年的藥品及醫藥的化學品進口就高達66億美元這額度也蠻大的然後顯示台灣在藥品的戰略物資上它還是嚴重的依賴國外的資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
528.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
548.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以因此大家才會如此擔憂美國關稅貿易戰對台灣的藥品市場帶來的衝擊所以我們一定要強化我們自製藥品的能力嘛都要補兌也都有說嘛都有承諾嘛但是我們有什麼樣的一個先期計畫還是一個事半計畫還是你這樣到目前為止你們早已經有行政相關的政策準備要再推了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
549.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
571.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
有 我們即將公告的這兩個政策就是在增加我們的產業鏈的能力我那次要的能力這樣子你們有即將公告的哪兩項請說明一下一個是我們健保的藥品 藥價調整辦法還有一個是藥品的支付標準就剩這兩個法規這個就是剛剛說4月27號前要公告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
577.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
589.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這樣就可以讓台灣強化自製藥品的能力所以是剛剛那國內三大製藥公會聯合聲明希望趕快推動的三大公會跟台灣要強化自製藥品的能力有關係嗎沒有吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
597.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
626.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
有啊,他們最近的一個聯合聲明就是希望那兩個政策趕快來實施不是啦,我們是,我剛剛最後的一點我時間到了啦,我是要強化台灣自製藥品的能力我想講這句話這兩個政策是一定有我們不僅要加強在台製造,不僅要更需要鼓勵投資生技產業嘛然後再來,因為未來不是強藥啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
627.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
641.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為未來不是只有疫道搶藥,我們是應該搶製藥生產線搶製藥生產線嘛,所以在這個疫情的時候就已經發現掌握藥品或是疫苗的國家,他就有話語權嘛我們現在有什麼樣的計畫,現在就來處理這些事情嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
648.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
665.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我再跟委員簡單的說明就是我們分成幾段一個是對於台灣首發新藥的優惠價包含他是全球第一個或者是在國外然後兩年內國外上市兩年內到台灣來製造發行我們都有優惠合價另外對於國內製造的品項 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
668.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
682.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那麼用國內製造的原料藥我們藥價加10%在國內做臨床試驗我們也加10%這個都是鼓勵讓這個在國內來製造後面就是鼓勵的一種我接受了前面那一個我覺得倒還好 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
684.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
708.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
如果只有這樣這坦白講江蘇長應該來答問才對因為進一步的是在國藥能夠國用國產的其實在學名藥的這個門檻相對的對接的機會大所以我們對於必要藥品的盤點那種已經過了專利期的用藥裡面有三百多種用藥我們其實看過了那我們為了讓國內的藥廠有吸引力所以我們針對東南亞國協之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
710.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
733.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們的藥廠的PIC GMP的認證我們產的藥就有機會往東南亞銷對於歐盟的所謂關鍵藥品的法案底下我們國內的藥廠的製作因為是PIC GMP也可以對接到那邊的銷售所以整體來講我們針對這一次剛才提到了健康保健相關食品的部分的產線因為是藥廠跟食品廠之間的產線之間的競合那未來因為關稅在 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
739.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
761.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
保健相關食品的一些差異之下我們希望能夠積極的往他導引在這個部分讓他能夠有利可圖讓這些廠商都能夠把台灣的製藥的產線能夠積極的能夠完成謝謝署長我時間已經超過一些了我剛剛特別提醒部長還有兩位署長我們未來恐怕不是只有搶藥就是搶藥就是搶製藥生產線那台灣成績何時有這麼多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
767.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
796.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這個國外大廠來設廠,那曾幾何時這些大廠都不見了那我們收穫我們的市場很小在講這一話好像滅自己威風啊那我就疲於了新加坡,人家就可以成功去去招到這麼大的藥廠所以我們是不只要能夠自製藥品,也是要能夠吸引國際的藥廠來台來設廠啊,我想這個必須要鬆軟旗下嘛我記得我去年6月5號的時候還在委員會,甚至在院會也都指引過部長說台灣的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
797.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
823.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們就有辦法舉辦這個台北國際電腦展我們應該也有能力來舉辦國際AI展智慧展都可以嘛對不對我也不曉得部長什麼時候可以成行是不是在短時間內包含這個相關的提升台灣自己製藥的能力招募國際大廠來這邊設廠的相關的一些計畫跟辦法是不是可以提供給委會做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
824.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
827.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
有相關的流程跟計畫都很重要我們重新來檢討來研究報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
855.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
857.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
也請一座列提出了好不好好 謝謝 |