| IVOD_ID |
16018 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16018 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
28 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-17T08:30:50+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-17T12:03:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:32:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d4704513b222bf9e414968be1351dde7819186e52af124432710420bb65eb42db5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、邀請國防部報告「海空戰力提升計畫採購進度及執行成效」，並備質詢。
二、邀請國防部報告「國防部機密專案預算需求」，並備質詢。【報告秘密，詢答「先秘密、後公開」】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:50 - 12:03:00 |
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1806.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
報告委員會出席委員9人與主法定人數我們開會那請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1808.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1828.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國113年6月13日星期四上午9時至11時37分地點紅樓301會議室出席委員洪生翰等11人列席委員蘇巧慧等15人列席人員國軍退出亦官兵輔導委員會主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1830.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1857.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
嚴德發及所屬人員：國防部支援規劃師師長鄧克雄：法務部法治師調部辦事檢察官謝佑雲：行政院人事行政總處副人事長懷旭：行政院主計處專門委員秋碧珠：主席馬昭吉委員文君：報告四、向一宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定：二、邀請國軍退儲役官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴德發報告退府會執訓機構如何提升退儲役官兵： |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1858.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1884.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
專業職能及媒合就業之具體做法．並備質詢．討論事項審查本院委員翁曉琳等18人．領據《國軍退出與官兵輔導條例》徵定第27條之二條文草案案本案驚提本院第11屆第1會期第14次會議報告決定交外交及國防委員會審查委員翁曉琳說明提案子去國軍退出與官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴格發就協就業處處長慈玉蘭及退出及副處處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1886.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1912.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
如馬可提出報告委員弘生漢等12人諮詢均由國軍退出與官兵不到委員會主任委員嚴德發救援養護處處長周新國退出己副處處長盧馬可臺北榮民總議院副院長李維強退出與官兵職業訓練中心主任光永忠財團法人榮民融券基金會秘書長李世國及行政院人事行政總處副人事長懷旭等及其 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1912.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1940.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
即席答覆決議一、登記質詢在場委員：均發言完畢報告及詢答結束二、委員口頭質詢未及答覆或要求提供資訊請相關機關於二周內以書面答覆本會全體委員並赴資本會委員令指定期限者從其所定三、有關討論事項已案一、針對本案是否保留送用會處理才舉手表決在場委員不含主席九人贊成者三人反對者六人贊成者少數表決結果不通過二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1941.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1968.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
本案保留令則及繼續審查：宣讀完畢。請問在場委員對於上一次會議議事錄有遺漏、錯誤或需要更正的地方?沒有的話我們議事錄確定。請議事委員宣讀今天的報告事項。報告事項二,邀請國防部報告:「海空戰力提升計畫採購進度及執行成效，並備質詢。」三,邀請國防部報告:「國防機密專案預算需求，並備質詢。」：宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1972.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1991.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們先介紹現在已經在場的委員陳永康委員沈博洋委員今天由國防部長顧立雄先生顧部長以及我們副參謀總長執行官鄭榮峰常務次長楊基榮權動署署長白潔榮 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2001.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2024.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
總督察長是總督察長李榮華政府辦公室主任廖建新偵探局局長陳玉琳軍備局局長謝祺賢欸不對你是林文祥請坐請坐軍備局局長在主計局局長謝祺賢 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2026.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2054.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
剛才軍備局局長是我們林文祥中將再來軍醫局局長蔡建松戰規司司長李世強資規司司長鄧克雄法律司司長沈世偉整評司司長苗慧芬國防採購事主任趙雅萍人事參謀次長是次長劉佩智 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2058.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2076.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
請次市次長顏友賢作戰及計畫參謀次長市次長陳文新後勤參謀次長市次長陳道輝通信電子資訊參謀次長市次長盧建宗訓次市次長張俊志陸軍參謀長陳建義 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2088.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2097.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
海軍參謀長邱俊榮空軍參謀長曹敬平後備指揮部參謀長薛淵泉縣指部參謀長呂正芳陸軍後勤指揮部參謀長劉清薰支通電軍指揮部參謀長陳俊良 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2116.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2127.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
軍情局第一處處長鄧敦仁電展室執行長許益新中科院院長張忠誠 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2131.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2157.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
今天跟委員會報告我們今天有兩個案子一個是海空戰力提升計畫採購進度及執行成效那我們在場多數為新的國防委員我們在特別預算必須要先制定特別預算的法律根據特別預算的法律來編列預算那預算也要經過審計每個年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2160.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2182.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
特別預算的致用單位必須在每一個年度提出他們的執行進度跟成效的報告那特別預算也要納入國家的舉債額度也沒辦法迴避所以特別預算只是說跨年度或者是特別的項目必須使用的國家總預算的合法的預算的一種方式它也必須經過審查、經過審計、經過監督、年度也要經過報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2186.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2208.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以我們今天就是進行海空戰力提升計畫採購進度及執行成效的報告案另外一個是國防部的機密專案預算待會採取機密報告跟機密詢答的方式那基於作業的順暢我們今天的議程採取先公開報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2209.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2231.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
接下來清場清場完之後進行秘密報告秘密詢答秘密詢答之後再開放我們301的會議現場然後進行公開的詢答這樣作業的話我們只需要清場一次本會委員今天質詢的時間6加2分鐘機密跟公開共用時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2232.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2252.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
非本會委員4分鐘10點半發言登記截止那如果有臨時提案請在10點半以前提出11點左右本席會試詢答的情形彈性處理現在我們進行公開報告的部分請國防部顧立雄部長上台報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2261.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2274.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
主席、各位委員先進今天非常榮幸應邀到大院委員會進行專案報告承蒙各位委員對國防安全及國軍建軍備戰關切與指導在此表達誠摯的謝意 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2277.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2303.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
為適應兩岸極具升溫的敵情威脅本部針對聯合反制、整體防空、海上截擊等任務需求編列特別預算執行海空戰力提升計畫採購案規劃於民國111年至115年籌獲各式精準飛彈、載台等裝備備提升國軍整體戰力達成防衛固守重成核組織作戰需求確保國家安全與 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2304.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2329.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
區域和平穩定國防部將全力督管中科院及各建案軍種缺一計畫目標籌建海空戰力提升計畫所需各式武器裝備並兼顧戰力提升與貫徹國防自主政策備力國防資源發揮最大效益接續由本部的軍備局局長林文祥中將實施專案報告進行各位委員先進指導與支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2334.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2361.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
召委各位委員大家好軍備局局長報告海空戰力提升計畫採購進度及執行成效專案報告一、前言衛士印兩岸集聚升溫之敵情威脅快速提升國軍整體防衛能力本部編列特別預算籌獲海空戰力提升計畫各式武器系統必提升國軍整體戰力現緊就採購進度及執行成效說明如後二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2362.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2374.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
計畫目標是111-115年一聯合反制、整體防空及海上截擊等作戰需求編列特別預算新台幣2369億5000餘萬元以8類10項專案籌建、安置反艦飛彈、高效能艦艇、海巡艇加裝戰時武器 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2383.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2409.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
三、萬箭飛彈、無人攻擊載具、雄生飛彈、陸基防空飛彈及野戰防空飛彈等武器系統。三、一百一十二年執行成效本計畫一百一十二年貨戶特別預算六百八十五億餘元規劃籌建各型飛彈載台、軍事設施及通信指管裝備等四項執行成效分數如後。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2410.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2417.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
一、專案執行進度一、飛彈籌募進度年度已一計畫產制各式飛彈並結角軍種擔任戰備任務執行進度百分之百 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2424.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2452.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
二、載台籌貨進度．除高效能艦艇外．玄岸已依計畫完成機動飛彈車等各式載台產製．執行進度94%．相關測定作為災暴如後一、玄岸局依計畫年度計畫管制執行．其中第45艘艦受限於外購．射控雷達原廠產能不足、延遲到貨影響．未能於112年12月交件二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2454.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2473.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
為確保本案順利執行則互中科院專案團隊指派高階人員赴原場盯催並要求船長調整檢驗工序及派員進駐船長管制工進已於113年2月全數到料並於3月26日完成全案五艘艦艇交艦任務 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2476.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2501.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
三、軍事設施籌建進度．年度一計畫完成各式武器、裝備及軍事設施．並移交軍種執行戰備任務．執行進度百分之百。四、通訊執管裝備籌募進度．年度一計畫產製及結繳各式．通訊執管裝備交互海軍、海巡署應用．執行進度百分之百。二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2502.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2520.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
預算之用一百一十二年度分配預算六百八十五億三千九百零九萬餘元包含一百一十二年度預算數六百三十二億兩千四百四十五萬餘元及一百一十一年節轉數五十三億一千四百六十三萬餘元 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2521.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2545.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
一百一十二年度致用六百零一億元．致用率八十七點七五．於八十三億元．節轉至一百一十三年度致用．降如下表一．請參閱。三、試商成果一百一十二年度試商規劃．四百九十八點五億元．採購簽約四百零八點三億元．試商成效達八十一點九． |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2546.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2562.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
二、以執行採購事商暨4344案．三、與廠商暨有1735家．跨族、機械、電子、營造、資通、造船．汽車、化學、光電等各產業．產業衍生效益達816.6億元．增加就業人數22513人． |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2569.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2577.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
有效創造國防安全與擴大產業鏈經濟動能效益之雙贏目標四章效益統計降爐下表二請參約 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2581.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2604.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
是強化履約及專案督管機制一、中科院海空戰力提升計畫採購特別預算各生產案均編設專責單位負責各式的武器系統生產製造另於院部、納編、財務、法務、採購、督察等業管成立專責管制室以編組分工專人專責統籌各項工作嚴密各計畫節點管制必落實風險管控與執行考管 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2611.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2631.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
二、建案軍種各軍種預約納編、主計、採購、法務及監察等單位執行海空戰力提升計畫、履約督導並利用軍種每季專案管制每月專案整合團隊會議依節點督管產制進度及管制風險並 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2634.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2642.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
一、約檢驗驗收武器裝備令針對落後個案檢派專員進駐必及時掌握生產備料、禮業進度、裝備測試及人員教育訓練等作業以督管全案執行狀況。三、國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2651.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2680.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
本部納編各業館連餐共同督管每兩個月召開監審作業整合團隊工作會議針對節點、平和、專案風險、公淨負荷程度及預算執行進度等等項實施管控並採定期、不定期查查集合另據風險專案主舉提報方式由軍備副部長每月召開會議管制確保專案執行無虞、順利達成年度量產任務 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2682.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2683.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
五、113年執行規劃本計畫113年貨戶特別預算489億6300 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2693.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2714.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
．規劃籌建雄風、天劍系列、天弓三型．及艦翔無人機等各式飛彈．機動載台等各式裝備及軍事設施．針對海空戰力提升計畫各項專案．需由本部依規劃期程督管、建案軍種．及中科院落實執行．必滿足年度量產任務。 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2715.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2732.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
六、節語本計畫依防衛固守、重重嚇阻軍事戰略指導於最短的期程內籌獲、成熟、效高及快速形成戰力的各式軍種飛彈及海軍高效能艦艇有效強化國軍整體防衛能量建構可視嚇阻戰力 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2733.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2758.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
感謝大院各委員的指導有關海空戰力提升計畫112年各項工作均依計畫期程執行本部將嚴格督管各單位入力按計畫期程管制武器裝備獲得並藉全案推動國內市商帶動國防產業發展升級逐步建構完整國防產業供應鏈以上報告敬請各位委員先進支持與指導謝謝好謝謝軍備局長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2762.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2776.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
公開報告結束接下來我們要以秘密會議的方式進行機密報告本委員會去年10月12號通過之決議參與秘密會議人員應切實遵循保密規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2777.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2800.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我們現在要進行清場稍後參與秘密會議人員除委員外都要憑機密證才能進入會場所有人員請將手機、攝錄影設備電子手錶、手環二哥大等有傳訊相關功能的設備置於場外置物櫃並接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3627.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3646.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好,現在登記公開質詢委員開始詢答那先請王定宇召委上台質詢好,謝謝主席,麻煩顧立雄部長有請部長,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3652.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3675.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
事由王委員好部長早我們今天那個每個年度要報告海空戰力提升計畫裡面根據你們提列的報告那你們要來報告預算條例我們以前主計長也上來了那也要把執行成效報告進來主計長來主計局我待會有些問這個部分的數據要請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3676.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3689.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
主席長你邊走邊聽我問我們這個特別預算條例裡面所列的預算跟我們年度的總預算其實都要納入國家局在上限是這樣子嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3689.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3691.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
是啊他沒辦法迴避嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3691.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3699.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
是的對就是我們的局在上限沒辦法迴避還是在國家整個財務控管下嘛那他要經過立法院同意那要不要經過審計 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3701.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3725.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
也要經過審計然後每一年度還是要報告進度跟成效嘛所以事實上特別預算在我們的預算法裡面其實是跟總預算一樣它就是一個法定的編列預算方式大概用於跨年度或者比較重要的科目它沒辦法在年度預算裡面編列才來進行執行所以我是建議我們主計單位對於特別預算的法源 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3726.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3727.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
報告秘密． |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3746.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3749.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
總共8項10類其中有一個是他講除了高效能艦艇載台這個大概講的就駝江啦高效能艦艇載台外 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3770.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3780.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這個執行成效達到百分之九十四但體的取得已經到百分之百所以第一個問題是我們那個高效能艦艇現在進度到底怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3782.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3799.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
因為你上面沒有單獨把它列出來,它到底進度...五艘,我覺得了解五艘都已經交付了所以它現在的進度是多少?你報告沒有這個數據你上面只寫除載台外執行成效94%那高校人載台已經解決了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3801.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3822.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
對,他的報告我看我第一次看的時候也是有一點那個但是他的意思應該是如果你算到去年年底他是94%點多但是到今年的3月那已經全部6艘都已經交進就是一艘原型加5艘全部都交運了那你這個報告是最近交進來的為什麼還在寫去年的94%來來對麥克風回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3826.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3843.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
你懂意思嗎?那一段文字我看不懂啦各位報告一下因為我們就是以112年的執行成效因為標題是112所以你現在報告的是對這是2023就112年會計年度裡面的執行成效對,確實好,那就本席可以接受就是說到去年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3843.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3860.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
在台可能有一些設備還沒辦法取得,所以你把他先扣除,他執行成效94%但是在今年3月都開始追上進度了,這樣詮釋是對的那另外呢,你們世商就是我們希望透過這個促進我們國內的經濟嘛,世商預計498.5億 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3864.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3881.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那你們報告裡面說執行成效是408.3億成效是81.9%其實落差20%左右還蠻大的這個試商為什麼有兩成無法試出是我們國內廠商沒有意願技術不足還是有什麼樣的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3882.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3895.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
國防部報告當初我們在預估試商金額的時候是以公開公告招標的錢來算也就是說我們的預算來算但是經過整個我現在寫的那個是有80多億沒有試商欸對是絕標價絕標價 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3901.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3929.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
公告的前面是用公告的金額來算所以項目上是不是全部試商了全部試商但是呢因為你用招標的所以有的85折有的82折所以金額就沒有達到那邊對但是事實上我公告金額是500零那我會建議報告可以寫詳盡就是你試商的科項目全部都試商完成但因為招標招標金額不可能百分之百一樣因為你們不是全部都最有利標嘛有的是價格標嘛那價格標打折下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3930.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3930.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
拜訪議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3953.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3962.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
目前都是按照進度,現在就... 不不不,我在問你剛才的回答會讓我誤以為全部的項目都試商了只是招標額度打折而已啊有沒有項目沒有試商? |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3962.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3967.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
還沒有幾乎該採購的都採購了 我不要幾乎這種談有沒有項目還沒有試商? |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3967.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3975.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
沒有該做的都沒有 全部都試商了 對還有113年,今年度的還是有試商的金額當然,我們在講去年度的嘛 去年度全部都試商了 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3977.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3986.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我要問的有關這個報告的最後一個問題就是我們因應這一個海空戰力提升不管是各類的,像雄風啊各類的彈體的製造、載台的製造 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3990.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
4018.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
有提升產線的產能吧?有產線的產能包含人員包含產線的裝備都提升了我現在請問那如果我們這一個計畫結束之後提升的產能增加的人力你們後續打算怎麼辦?各位報告在人力方面因為我們現在是採用不定期契約的方式來進人就是為了因為不定期你這樣講你現在在中科院上班的員工馬上想到下一個問題是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
4019.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
4046.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
結束我就結束了欸我就沒工作了會不會報告這些海空戰力提升員我們用定期的方式他有三年的、有五年的、有兩年的所以你們產能提升這個計畫結束了這些有技術的工人、技術工契約到期就不予需要他就沒有了吧我們有配套措施這些人我們還有擇優入用的方式如果說他表現得不錯你擇優入用 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
4047.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
4050.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
跟契約到齊他就是合約不續約 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
4052.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
4080.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
大概是現在目前大概三分之一留用所以有三分之一可以留用表現好的可以留用是的還是特殊專長可以留用表現好特殊專長但是他有評比院長這些東西不能含糊啦不能說大概幾乎好像可以你知道這牽涉到你現在帶的人他的軍心能不能穩定接下來我們國防產業是永續性的本期給你一個具體的建議你產能提升不是只有人你還裝備都提升了那你這些契約工到期了不去用 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
4081.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
4095.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那你那些提升產能的裝備就閒置在那裡就像我們以前製造砲那個腰兩洞砲的那個榴彈砲的東西就封在那邊機器是會老會壞的所以一方面是不是要尋求怎麼樣去繼續生產製造 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
4097.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
4117.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
二方面我們優秀的技術工我們民間如果有相關的產業你們事實上要結合輔導他去就業不要讓自己的員工努力了三年五年他覺得契約到了我大概就沒有明天了那會產生一些問題這個我一定要提醒工科院好這個部分請回我回到部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
4119.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
4139.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
部長我們除了這個海空戰力提升計畫以外呢我現在舉一個項目是我們對美採購的托式飛彈托式2B飛彈大概是新型的要過去是線性在拖有時候碰到海水會有些干擾等等那就我們看到的計畫其成從2018年起案至今 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
4141.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
4169.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
都還是沒有籌獲到任何的就脫勢非但二逼從2018年起案至今是零籌獲原因是什麼就是它剛開始出來的時候測評好像有點問題不過現在這個測評已經過了所以預計在今年的年底以前全數會交易全數一次交過嗎因為已經六、七年了好像是它生產出來的品質沒有達標了 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
4170.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
4183.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
這個是屬於我們三項重大延宕的裡面其中一款但是現在測評過了之後應該是在第四季也就是年底之前應該會全數交易他測評沒過是美軍那邊測的?不是我們嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
4186.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
4207.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以是美國的製造商托斯2B製造出來美軍做評判把關徹底沒有過通通退貨重來然後後來再重新再改進之後呢那現在在年底以前會全數交易所以這個案子在今年底應該可以結案全部都可以取得是全部的托斯2B是那另外兩個案子呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
4209.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
4224.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
另外一個F16那個就您理解了現在就是說要在今年的第10屆產出第二架原型機之後做飛行測試那我們還是要求在2026年年底全速交運好 相為細節我有空再跟部長請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
4225.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
4226.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
謝謝王定宇委員 謝謝部長接下來有請林楚瑩委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
4266.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
4269.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
謝謝主席。主席有請顧部長。來,部長請。這領委很好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
4277.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
4283.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
部長早安喔賴清德總統身為我們的這個三軍統帥那麼他在這個陸關的百年校慶當中特別點到就是要分清楚中華民國跟中華人民共和國這是互不隸屬國軍捍衛中華民國的決心絕對是必須要貫徹的這個部分本席予以非常大的肯定 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4299.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4315.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
但是他後面講到絕不接受首戰及終戰這樣的一個說法馬上就招到了馬英九辦公室的批評但是本席特別去找了一下首戰及終戰到底是從哪裡出來的不知道部長你知道首戰及終戰這句話是從哪裡出來的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4317.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4341.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我只知道就是說所戰及中戰是一種投降主義也就是說認為一開始打仗那我們就要想定這個可能的中戰那我就覺得我們是防衛作戰我們要有寸土必爭的決心那強化自我防衛能力然後以逐步削弱這個共軍侵台的這些能力然後最後的讓他沒有辦法完成侵台的這個目標好 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4342.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4348.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那麼本席其實是比較只有媒體的反應來講那部長當然是講出了首戰集中戰它的到底它的內容是什麼但是呢我現在要來講的是既然我們在國會詢答當中不能夠隨意扯謊那我就找出到底真相在哪裡首戰集中戰到底是哪裡來的現在馬辦是說首戰集中戰是蔡英文總統時期的國防政策的報告我同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4370.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4398.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
但是這是我方的策略嗎?我不同意其實我個人 應該說我不同意是我個人要拿出真相基本上在2018年中共政軍發展評估報告當中確實這是我們國防安全研究院的報告但是在第56頁當中他所寫出來的是中國強調首戰集中戰讓美軍衛到戰事已定言下之意 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4399.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4428.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
部長這裡頭寫的雖然是2018年還沒上任所以這份報告寫的首戰集中戰應該是中國也就是解放軍的策略對吧?所以當今天現在馬辦執行長蕭旭辰說這是賴總統指責蔡英文總統時期的投降主義嗎?跨著剛剛您所說的說法這是不是丟哥倒菜兜是不是一個偷換概念又或者是因為這上面是 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4429.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4435.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
反體字他們看不懂,他們只看得懂簡體字嗎?不然為什麼明明白白寫著這是中國強調首戰集中戰但他現在卻說這是蔡英文總統時期的研究報告所以認為蔡英文總統是所謂蔡規賴不遂你覺得這樣說法合理嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4447.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4469.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
跟委員報告所戰即終戰這應該是中共主觀的一個期待一廂情願的一個想法所以這個這樣子的一個想法跟我們寸土匕首的這樣子的一個決心我想不一樣那國防院的報告引述的應該是共軍他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4471.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4492.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所認為的所認為的那我這邊了解好像是共青在98年1998年的九陽軍報就有提到這樣的一個文章那這樣子的一個說法是他們的他們認為他們預期想要達到的目標或是對台的軍事策略是嗎是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4493.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4521.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
好,所以我希望就是說在這個部分部長能夠就像您剛剛所講的真、正確的傳達出來因為畢竟喔現在很容易喔然後我們沒有講過的話塞到我們嘴巴裡面就變成好像是我們的報告提出了我們的想法不是這是指中國他們對於台灣策略的想定而不是中華民國國防部是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4523.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4542.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
接下來呢當然部長上任以來做了很多的軍務革新我特別也跟我的辦公室我們整理了一下包括取消傳統刺槍術廢除軍官休假回報然後官士兵出國就可以不用跟團包括安全檢核管制方式以及媒體到這兩天都還在講的這個免踢正步只要齊步就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4546.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4553.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
８然後作戰戰術回歸參謀長：那麼政府主觀留職規定恢復常態我相信這個都是美意因為我們希望所謂形式化的管理可以免就像您所說的我們用檢法的方式但是現在很怕就是上有政策下有對策本席呢最近接到了一些不少的這個抱怨或者是說在網路上找到一些大家所謂的上的上面的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4574.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4595.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
每議但是執行到下端之後是不是到基層之後就出現了其他的對策好像變成只改了名字但是該做的還是不能少包括定期回報就變成主動回報或者是回報群組就改一個名字或是互助回報組就會雨後春筍 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4596.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4600.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
因為時間有限我想問一下就是其實在我們的國軍、官軍、士官、士兵、休假、請假規則或是我們的國軍軍紀維護實施要責裡面其實都沒有所謂要定期回報或者是主動回報這樣的一個項目其實只是都是一些安全提醒那我希望部長可不可以在這裡我們真的明確的給他講一下不要說今天部長的美意 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4622.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4651.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
打了折然後變成是換了個名義然後讓基層的士官還是覺得說基層的弟兄覺得說哎呀感覺上美意但是我無福消受啊部長跟委員報告我也聽到有一些反應那我因此我有在我們的內部會議裡面也再次的要求那所以在6月6號人事通報令的另一班全軍具體執行的時候呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4651.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4671.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
也就是說這個目前的執行的狀況已經納入內部管理督導這個時機來做驗證也就是說他不要再加任何額外其他的規定來做一個限制那希望就是說但是你如果發生什麼事情當然要回報這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4673.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4681.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
好 所以言下之意就是出事了要講一下是這樣子嗎然後但是一切平安就沒消息就是好消息可以有辦法這樣嗎還是說現在你所看到的這個主動回報啦或是回報群組啦該怎麼樣來處理或是該怎麼樣來進行有效的管理因為我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4694.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4695.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
拜託部長,你怎麼看? |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4720.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4733.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我想我們就不要再一定要減低這個基層官兵的負荷那我在這裡面要求就是說希望不要再額外的律定其他的規定來做限制那只有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4735.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4761.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
﹝延期官兵遇到狀況﹞才需要主動回報我希望能夠做到這樣子好 謝謝部長很明確地點出來那就是不要再增加基層官兵的負荷也不要說我們改了一個名字變成是不用定期回報變成主動回報然後就是不要回報但是面對突發狀況或是意外狀況的時候必須做有效的溝通是這個意思嗎是是好 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4766.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4787.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
好,謝謝林楚瑩委員,謝謝部長接下來有請陳永康委員,謝謝有請部長有請部長,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4795.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4806.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
是,陳委員好部長早今天聽取了這個有關特別預算的執行經過那裡面有一些部分我提出建言提供參考這邊有請中科院院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4815.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4828.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
立法院在110年制定的海空戰力提升這個採購的特別條例是在111到115年要完成那這裡面的項目特別提到有海軍高效能艦因為這個攻進延宕我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4833.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4856.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
委員長,我們對海軍的這個STER雷達這個歷史源源從當初的STER雷達荷蘭的然後併到法國的公司那由法國的公司再到美國登記那現在由美國的公司拿到合約再交給子公司結果它的量能產值不足所以延宕 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4857.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4871.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
現階段當然一到六都已經交了我們拿這個特別要做一個案例就是在第二階段的七到十二的時候要特別注意因為部長在這個採購合約您是專家我們當初簽這個約啊你簽約的對象絕不是子公司嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4872.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4872.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
８提供答案： |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4897.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4898.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
．二、邀請國防部報告． |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4924.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4937.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
﹖第二、本案現在進入第三年了﹖五年的期爭﹖因為軍售、商售快速獲得﹖我們現在除了裝備的獲得﹖面臨的另外一個挑戰﹖也請部長注意就是﹖國軍的邊線比80%﹖這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4941.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4965.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
一般概念很多單位是低於這個所以新武器新裝備尤其是海巡現在他也強調他是第二海軍他也要在船上的他的這個巡防艦上加裝這個海軍的武器由海軍籌購暫時加這個員額海軍有沒有額外的員額來那平常海軍跟海巡的橫向協調就是掛舖會協商的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4970.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4997.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
．中的準則教範．會面臨一個很大的挑戰．舊裝備的更替．面臨戰術概念的更新．後勤維保的複雜．相對在裝備操作手冊．準則教範．維保紀令都在編修情況下．非常的繁瑣．那國軍又有於人力的受限．能夠參加這些工作．會產生一種惡性循環．所以人員的招募．是另外一個重點．也就是說． |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4998.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4999.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
另外,另外我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
5031.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
5054.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我特別提到就是我們講的共同圖像就是COP那麼由於海巡要加裝飛彈那麼他要海軍的人派上去那海巡的艦長並沒有參與過我們的國軍的準則教範甚至只參的訓練那在這個跟聯合作戰構想的時候如果沒有一個共同圖像 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
5055.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
5056.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
８提供答案： |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
5081.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
5109.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
另外中科院本身我看到今天的報告就是說我們的半藥產量已經進步了這數字就不念了但是還有一個5%到16%的落差我提醒因為這個尤其是半藥這個製程中間我曉得這個院長也很重視安全我們的風險控管Risk management更重要而不是傷後Damage control我如何能夠消除人員的損傷 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
5110.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
5119.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
委員的安全要幫他特別保險這個是非常重要的因為尤其是在這個火炸藥的攪拌這個過程中間特別提醒注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
5122.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
5144.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
那麼奉展專案當然是希望在2026年能夠順利的完成那因為空軍的這個飛行員的座艙比目前短時間還沒有辦法提升我們是不是要一方面培訓新的飛行員的量要加大二方面由現在轉型過來的飛行員可能從機種換裝原來的過來這個速度要加快我請一下參謀長就說您認為一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
5147.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
5150.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
委員提到這F16飛行員訓練的問題其實我們沒有一個確實的具體的數字來做規範但一般的訓練來講它大概完成我們三個階段的訓練就可以達到我們的戰力的需求那後續會在它飛行生涯裡面持續的精進它的戰術技能 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
5176.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
5205.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我們希望您這邊幫空軍整體規劃我們的座艙比我不談數字必須要提升因為這個負荷太重再加上一部分飛行員的流失所以這是一個非常重要的專案我們是全力配合也支持但我本席站在國防委員會角色的立場來看我們不只是協度建言當然在很多執行過程中力道不夠集中或者是還有時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
5206.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
5211.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
進度水平落後的時候我們要作為督導那最後我們提出一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
5213.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
5239.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
國家安全戰略國家安全戰略的終極目標是和平必戰我們的方法是強軍備戰手段是能戰止戰就是目的、方法、手段我希望國防部不要把這三個名詞混淆我們現在在推動國家安全戰略希望明確定定那麼後面在其他的這個會議中間我們再提出建言這邊提出的建議給部長做參考以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
5240.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
5260.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
好,謝謝委員。剛剛委員所指教的,我們會後會一一再跟委員做說明,像比如說F16的座長筆的這個部分,我也聽過他們大概兩次的報告了,應該都有在積極的準備當中,這樣子。那謝謝委員,我想我們會後會一一再跟委員做一個充分的解釋,這樣子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
5261.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
5280.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
另外中科院有關STER雷達那個部分對於下一個階段就是7到12的那個合約對於美國製造公司的子公司那段一定要釐清要求要求因為這次對我們是一種保障謝謝謝謝陳永康委員謝謝部長那接下來有請黃仁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
5299.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
5301.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我們先請一下中科院的院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
5312.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5337.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
為因應海空戰力提升計畫人員的任用及後期安排請教一下院長在111年開始執行海空戰力提升計畫為了海空戰力提升計畫是否有增加人力?增加多少?尤其是科技之類的人數有多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5338.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5358.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
跟委員報告我們依照這個因為為了運營海空戰力提升我們向國防部申請了大概1200位這個定期契約那現在依照實際的需求我們禁用了大概900位900位大部分是以技術員來做組裝的為主大概是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5361.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5381.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
另外就是你這個定期的契約是屬於不定期還是屬於定期的?定期的。有分幾年?有分為一到五年都有。最多到五年。最短的是一年,一年期。因為海空戰力提升計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5383.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5400.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
是非常的龐大那尤其在飛彈部分的全由中科院的負擔產生的量能這是產生的一個製造的責任當年在立法院有不少委員擔心中科院的生產量能尤其是人力的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5402.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5428.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
為了讓計畫能夠順利完成衝科院應該要擴大的來這個增加能力這是一個本來你們在生產量能的時候就是應該增加這個這個能力但是有一些問題我必須要必須要跟跟院長講一下那個115年海空戰力提升計畫到期之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5430.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5438.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這些人才到中科院的關係終將終止剛剛王定一委員也特別有質疑這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5441.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5465.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
這些不管是定期的一年到五年之後那人才的流失能不能留住優等的人才留住那這個就看你們自己本身一定要考量一定要考量留住人才那過去裡面有個案例在當年我國研發這個IDF |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5466.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5492.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
後來因為美國突然賣我國的F16的戰機所以IDF的產量減半那參與的人數都被大舉的裁員其中有100多個都被韓國聘用所以提升了他們的科技戰力的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5493.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5512.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
所以這個就是我們警示如果我們今天我們企業的這一些人員到期應該在他的整個過程裡面要留住人才而不是要讓他定期之後我們應該就讓他就犧牲掉了讓其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5513.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5530.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
國際的這一些人才培訓或者是這一些企業都已經正在盯住我們現在中科院這一些如果它倒起之後可能會被吸收那我們這邊如何因應留住這個人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5531.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5553.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
國防部報告簡短來報 這個好 這個這是我們最重要 謝謝委員關切當然第一個 我們金融人一定要合乎合法 這合法那我們也考量到110年結束之後怎麼辦 所以說我們用定期契約來招 就是怕以後工作減少的時候 這個人員維持是很困難 但是我們現在就有個配套措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5554.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5578.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
我們這些表現好的定期人員我們有幾個方案第一個只要考機要夾等然後必須在三分之一我們會配合各年度像中科院一年大概介齡退伍的是250到300人左右我們就利用這個差額來依我們的實際狀況來做個彈性的禁用所以是第一個第二個我們也鼓勵他們能夠在招考 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5579.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5579.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
拜託國防部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5604.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5609.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
國防部提交的立法院的報告指出目前進行中的對美重大競購案中只有托四飛彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5625.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5640.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
還有F-16、F-16V、F-16CD還有布拉格的拐動採購三項的延宕甚至海馬式火箭和標槍飛彈兩項提前交運那對於這樣的一個延宕那你能不能舉例這幾項 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5649.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5675.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
跟委員報告我之前有在媒體詢問的時候有回答就是說我們都是依照這個第一版的發價書所定的這個期程來決定它原諒與否那也許在之前的這個整歸書的時候我們也許定的時程會比較短但事實上到了美軍給我們美方給我們這個第一版的發價書它的時程可能拉得比較長 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5676.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5691.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
⋯⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5691.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5704.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
﹏發價書所定的期程來決定它延宕與否﹏那有些期程確實拉了比較長﹏那所以才會提到說現在按照發價書延宕的話大概就三個一個就是剛剛講的托斯2V的飛彈然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5706.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5726.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5726.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5747.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
根據資料裏面對台的台售武器的延宕交貨總共有19筆金額大概220億美元甚至拖到2027甚至不等另外就是今年的5月我們許延樸副部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5752.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5771.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
也曾說就美國對台經受延宕累積金額達到190億美元做出回應表示臺美的這樣的一個問題是相當的重視但是在你在立法院總執行的時候你說這個是正常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5772.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5789.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
正常什麼是在上週自己說目前交貨延宕金額約為190億美元結果給立法院的報告突然表示一切正常到底怎麼一回事你來回答一下好不好跟委員報告我想沒有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5789.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5813.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
以前剛我跟委員報告的就是確實是有三項的延宕的這個事實我剛已經解釋就是我們都是以第一版的發價書那後來即使發價書修改我們還時辰把它拉的話我們還是把它列為延宕所以我給你機會表示啊你在總諮詢的時候你達到的跟這個喜鹽埔沒有我在總諮詢也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5815.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5816.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
謝謝黃仁委員接下來有請馬文君委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5845.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5847.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
謝謝主席,麻煩請郭部長請部長,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5857.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5876.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
部長您上任以後其實有放寬了很多的一些對於我們國軍的一些管制還有包括管理訓練等等不過我們剛剛看到一則消息就是有一個海軍的上兵他跳船說不想當兵了這一個新聞部長不曉得看到了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5880.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5905.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
海軍有跟我報告了那他目前掌握的狀況是怎麼樣已經上岸他自己游上岸了知道為什麼嗎因為你今天這個應該算是志願役的因為義務役才剛第一天不可能所以以志願役他過去其實應該也接受過訓練那發生這樣的事情有沒有初步掌握是什麼樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5907.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5926.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
報告委員,他是108年上船到現在將近快4年7個月到8個月,那我們也積極的輔導他,那他其實平常表現的部分都還算正常,但是有一些個人一些的一個小問題,那我們單位也積極在輔導他。 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5929.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5941.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
最近的話目前的實際狀況我們要再看已經跟他做服訪可能對他的未來的繼續服役他有一些需要再跟家裡面跟單位再做溝通因為已經上船四年多老實說你說他不想當兵或者發生這樣跳船的事件這個非常嚴重尤其對於整個國軍的形象所以儘速可以釐清到底是什麼樣的問題然後因為他是比較近還可以有回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5955.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5963.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那如果發生在其他的狀況底下是不是又會有造成很多智商或者什麼其他的狀況這個部分競速有沒有可能是刻意為止? |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5970.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5970.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
接下來我們請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5989.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
6000.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
因為部長我們最近在您說不用回報或者像刺槍術啊其他的這些部分都放寬以後那如果不要回報發生重大問題的時候還要不要連坐? |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
6003.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
6022.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我們希望我們讓官兵能夠掌握他自己的自律這個是比較重要所以要不要連坐因為過去是因為長官就是怕說你有時候你在外面發生了什麼樣的狀況那上面的可能還要接受懲處那既然你要放寬然後他又不需要回報那這個部分需不需要一併的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
6028.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
6051.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
因為他如果在外面都必須自律然後自己去做決定的時候而且沒有人管他發生問題或者發生重大案件的時候那要不要連坐因為在外面發生我個人是部長有沒有一併的考量因為當你在放鬆這個的時候我個人不贊成這樣子的一種連坐的方式我想是不是特別所以連坐還是會 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
6052.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
6068.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
委員好 我是聯誼次長跟委員報告我們整個休假在著重自主的管理然後遇到有事情的那簡單說就好了因為你現在放寬了嘛對然後重點事情一定要回報那我們現在是通過所謂重點事情大概是什麼樣的狀況就是說他在外面遇到車禍 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
6069.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
6088.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
﹏或是說發生跟家庭有很大糾紛﹏這些重大的事情還要跟部的來做回報﹏那我們協助來處理﹏那我們現在的重點就是在理營宣教﹏我們在理營宣教的時候會跟所有的官兵弟兄講清楚哪些可以做﹏沒關係,因為我們現在只是提出來就是說當你在修正一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
6089.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
6116.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
⋯⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
6117.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
6132.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
很簡單跟委員報告就是你宣教我們一定要宣教只要幹部宣教了我們就不會做連做相關的處分那接下來他就是自主管理的部分以上報告好就這個部分我們希望他都是有一併的一些考量因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
6133.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
6155.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
部長因為我們現在還是有刺刀啦那你刺刀術你不訓練那總是像其他國外其實它還有一些戰鬥一些相關的比較先進的跟委員報告我一再的強調傳統的刺槍術跟近戰的格鬥這兩個是不同的也就是說我們要去除的是表演性質的刺槍術 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
6156.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
6166.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
那現在有包括槍械包括身上所配的刺刀包括隨手可得的任何武器包括跟他進行搏擊這個都屬於近戰格鬥的項目這個部分我們都要維持住還是會維持嗎因為其實大家聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
6174.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
6186.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
部長說出來的時候大家都會覺得說只講了前半段後半段沒了阿不然還以為刺刀要拿來消水因為我一直一直在強調說你傳統的刺槍是不是在那邊這個我們都當過兵我們都知道傳統的這個就這個部分我們當然還是希望他還是要有一個完整的因為畢竟我們現在整個政策還有現在國家的大環境其實是有風險的我們怎麼樣加強或者更嚴謹 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
6203.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
6213.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
因為你又把法令又限縮得更嚴重可是好像在管理或其他的訓練又更鬆散這是一個實戰化具有實用性的訓練我們贊成與時俱進接下來我想要請教部長因為剛剛有特別提到而且在今天的報告裡面有說我們在對美採購的 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
6228.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
6247.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
6247.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6254.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
其實我們所有的延宕並不是像剛剛講的說第一封的發架書因為有很多包括我們在美國國防新聞週刊還有華爾街日報的報導裡面其實都很清楚的寫到台灣軍方向美國下單採購的武器裝備面臨延遲交貨的狀況這個美方其實他們當時也講過而且包括AIT的處長在最後一次在台的在台灣的記者會也提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6277.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6280.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
因為我們不管是刺針飛彈、魚叉飛彈、重型魚雷海馬斯、高機動多管、火箭系統等等其實它那時候高達220億美元都是延遲的所以其實大概如果以目前為止它應該算時間更長了你不能因為把它的期程往後延比如說魚叉飛彈那時候用 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6303.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6305.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
美國的國政軍界智庫都承認對台軍售都有延宕我們希望在國會的時候是給大家更正確的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6329.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6355.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
他不只3案而且我們對美軍售也不只18案少說光從預算書翻開至少25案以上跟委員報告簡單報告一下就是說智慧國會的程序完之後那大家都希望盡快的拿到武器可是就這方面我們確實是看到他軍售的交貨提成明顯的拉長所以才所有的這個國會議員或者是媒體跟智庫都會把這種現象視為延宕 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6357.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6370.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
但是呢我們最後拿到這個第一版的發價書的時候他確實就我們原來預期的一件案的整歸數是有落差所以大家都會印象上會覺得說那他的第一版的發價書部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6372.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6382.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
因為我們在編預算的時候他已經把期程寫出來了所以我們是按我們自己的預算上面下去看的那這個部分對我們來說它就是延宕比如說你現在說兵凶戰危很快可能會發生什麼樣的狀況你從5年延到10年你從3年延到8年其實對我們來說都是延宕而且到目前為止連一個都還沒有到手 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6395.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6401.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
所以因為美國也很清楚的講到說因為俄烏戰爭因為疫情的關係所以他延宕這個理由其實我們是可以接受可是對我們來說對我們的國防安全影響甚具這個部分應該要據理力爭而不是他說什麼就什麼而且我們在這裡還幫他粉飾說我們延宕的只有三案 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6415.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6438.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我們沒有幫他分析但是委員的指教是對的我們一定要跟他距離力爭就是說那個發家書跟他智慧國會那最後我們整歸師的部分要跟這個發家書的這個期程不能夠落差太大這一點我們一定要跟他進行溝通因為我們希望給我們看的報告是正確的啦而不是說用其他的方式然後去做一些轉換那因為時間的關係我就一點點跟主席接一些時間齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6442.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6450.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
因為目前站在部長旁邊的這一位很快應該7月份想要去接中科院的院長是不是媒體已經有報導了 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6460.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6484.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
應該是因為今天的報告裡面就說中科院在張院長的帶領之下尤其我們的蔡前總統其實也一直稱讚說我們中科院不管在武器裝備在很多的研發不管在各方面的一個計畫進程都非常的好而且甚至還超前那既然這麼好為什麼他第二任的任期還有一年半就要把他換掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6485.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6499.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
跟委員報告我想我非常非常的肯定章院長的過去的相關的這個作為跟努力那現在我想他還會我們還會借重他所以我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6501.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6512.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
拜訪他到這個他應該有在有的位置在中科院裡面不容易在這裡講清楚啦只是因為我覺得說報告跟你在用人的狀況還有未來未來其實還有很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6517.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6529.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我們希望中科院存在的目的還有價值還特別給他法人化很重要的一個因素是因為他不管是研發人才還有核心技術都可以整合延續當時我們的飛彈的經驗就是這樣來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6532.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6533.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我高度的期待張院長繼續在中科院幫忙我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6554.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6555.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
謝謝主席,我們有請部長來,部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6588.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6615.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
是徐委員好部長好昨天黃埔建軍百年是中華民國的大事情我們都在而且我們也都非常佩服我們國軍的努力當然我們賴清德總統的講話也是字字句句都被外界斟酌尤其是他提到首戰及終戰是一個投降主義我想要問一下部長您知道首戰及終戰這句話是誰在研究的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6618.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6631.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
剛剛林委也有問到,首戰及終戰據我所知是在最早在共軍在98年的解放軍報認為就是說首戰及接戰及新式就發表在首戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6633.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6650.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
所以是我們在研究中共它對於台灣如果今天它要進行武統的話它要怎麼樣做策略而我們看到他們這樣的策略想定之後我們自己要想那我們要怎麼應對這樣的策略部長我說的您認同嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6651.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6661.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
所以我們因為首次作戰嘛當然我們就一定要堅守我們當然我想全台灣沒有人說這個要不堅守的那包含您剛講的很對從我們民國98年的國防報告書裡面呢就已經有這樣子的討論了那當時這個報告書裡面是在講這個木兵相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6673.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6700.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
他裡面怎麼說的呢他說中共的軍事專聯裡面強調的是速戰速勝、首戰決勝再來呢有一位我們大概應該有很熟的叫做陳明通博士他的論文題目叫做中共攻台軍事策略思維變遷在二次波灣戰爭之後他也寫到了首戰及決戰的速戰速決局勢這個是中共 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6700.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6729.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
如果他有一天要武統的話他們希望的策略所以這完全是中共的說法這不是我們台灣人的說法也不是我們台灣人的想定所以當在我們台灣包含我們的國軍沒有人知這是一個中共的想法不是我們的想法的時候拿出說首戰及終戰這樣的投降主義大家不能接受我想在場的所有包含我們黃埔的士兵都一頭吐水我沒有人來接受啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6729.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6754.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
所以我想請問一下部長喔賴總統這樣講的說法您所看到的有人在認同說因為首戰及終戰所以我們不要跟中國大陸開戰我們如果今天中國大陸來對我們開戰的話我們要直接宣布投降有這樣賴清德總統所謂的投降主義派的話可不可以幫我們點名一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6756.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6767.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我想總統主要在強調的就是我們要有自我防衛的能力這個我們都認同這個我們都認同但是我想他演講的這個意思主要主要意思是這樣嘛但是因為他的說法就會讓大家揣測說你是不是認為有一些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6772.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6785.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
他認為中共打來我們就投降他反對這樣子的說法那如果有這樣子的一個揣測的話那我們就想知道啊有這樣的說法有這樣的想法的人到底是誰我要陪賴總統一起罵他陪郭部長一起罵他我是願意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6790.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6792.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我們來看一下因為昨天在黃埔的時候我們也很關心我們整個部長有影片嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6805.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6830.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我們播一下影片好不好這是第一個影片我們可以看一下部長您還有旁邊這個吳釗燮、顏德發跟韓國瑜院長跟總統來看一下我們這個踢著正步的軍人朋友們這個進行了讓大家覺得非常感動的儀式等一下鏡頭會再回到台上當這些踢正步的軍人們只有這樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6832.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6842.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那你可能放錯了齁但是再放另外一個好不好第6年油電機器周澤雄代理Finally, the tech company made by the tech company |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6844.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6873.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
你放的是一樣的影片你有發現這件事嗎好總之呢那我直接用口述的好不好因為我們的這個助理他沒有放出影片來那基本上呢這個我影片會再傳給媒體朋友第一個狀況呢就是部長您在大家在就是比如說旁邊的軍官在敬禮的時候您有一點手足無措的情況就是偷看了一下隔壁的然後呢想說這個時候我應不應該敬禮這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6874.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6899.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
第二點呢我們知道昨天有一個最感人的是我們有平均57歲的這個退役軍官他們組成了一個隊伍然後共同的來踢著正步經過的時候所有全場都給予他們掌聲包含賴總統包含韓院長再包含到所有台上的貴賓但是您當時呢沒有任何的舉措我想問一下部長當時的心情是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6901.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6916.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
跟委員報告您講的可能是兩段不同的對,兩段兩段一個部分是他先有一個向總統致敬取這個部分對那這個部分呢當時我想我舉扶手禮 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6917.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6937.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6937.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6942.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
但是我還是舉起來我懂我懂部長我覺得你很努力的在融入我們的軍隊這一點我也給你肯定但是我覺得類似這樣的狀況可能我們的包含我們的那個同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6953.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6973.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
應該要在黃埔事前來跟我們部長好好做說明整個禮儀的過程否則被媒體拍下這樣子的一個影片大家會認為你對於軍隊管理是不夠熟悉的下一個問題也是剛才很多人都問過但是呢我一定要把這個陳情再給大家下一張投影片好不好下一張投影片再下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6974.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6983.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
這是您在上任之後所做的一些這個改革那包含呢,裡面有一個這個是安全查核管制方式然後還有這個主要是回報的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6989.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
7009.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
．廢除官兵休假回報．有事再回報即可．但這個事情．對於中階長官．在領導基層幹部來說．遇到了一個很大的難題．所以光是這一個禮拜．部長我必須告訴你．我們就是光我辦公室．就收到了十幾封的陳情書．我們來看一下所有的陳情好不好．你看．他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
7011.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
7031.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我空軍防空部同學說他們營長解釋二四零零安全回報不用了但二一五零就請前需回報是否反應真的把國防部的命令當成放屁另外一邊講什麼呢不回報改成投票回報他直接在賴群組上面叫大家用投票的方式回報那還不是一樣再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
7034.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
7038.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
另外一個檢查宣導部長只有說取消回報沒有說取消每日視訊反查發明新名詞厲害吧然後請各單位由互助組長實施視訊反查更麻煩了本來只要寫個LINE而已他現在叫你要視訊然後還要幹嘛截圖回報感謝配合右邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
7057.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
7084.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
根據政戰部門的示意部長您的說法他自己在解釋欸每週休假呢並不是回報而是反查所以呢早就取這個安全回報在大棚部長就取消了啦這一次的人事不好意思我們主席再借我一分鐘我把這個念完好不好然後呢國防部長本身也只是表示取消安全回報故休假互助組反查並沒有取消後面還有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
7085.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
7096.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
就這四篇我最後想要請我們部長回答一件事情就好光是我辦公室一個禮拜我沒有把所有的都放上去因為我知道我的時間不夠類似這樣在國軍基層裡面您所下的指令他們不僅是沒有完全服從還自己善改 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
7105.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
7120.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
還把事情弄得更麻煩還用賴投票的方式要他們回復請問一下部長針對這種狀況你打算要怎麼處理請再要回答跟我們報告我已經在內部已經再度要求那如果還有類似的這個狀況我想我會嚴格來執行這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
7124.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
7125.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
接下來進行詢答的委員是沈博洋委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
7154.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
7155.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
謝謝主席,有請部長,謝謝來,部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
7164.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
7189.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
好部長好那因為剛剛這個徐委員已經提到了就是說這一個改休假不合理回報這件事情所以呢這個部分呢我們就是快速帶過就好了就是說一開始在這個畢竟國訓改革不易啦那一開始休假回報這件事情呢也看到很多這個在匿名的這個板上面呢很多人就說很高興有這樣的一些回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7189.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
7204.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
但是呢後來就是也出現了就是剛剛這一個學友委員提到的就是很多人有時候他們會自行這個去解讀這個命令那所以希望呢就是因為最早就提到檢法這件事情那希望呢之後還可以再繼續這一個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
7206.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7209.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
執行這項措施因為剛剛已經回答過學委員 這個部分我就跳過了接下來我想問一下葉士進的問題2023年的時候軍備局有說401場就是大概12億元的光放管這個光放管當時有說有不合格率達到85% |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7228.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7230.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
但後來有說這一個現在401新的這些新的採購入軍回復使用狀況均正常是不是能夠說明一下這個中間的過程是發生什麼事謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7244.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7265.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
議員好 我是秘密局局長跟你報告就是說我們前兩年確實方法案館我們無惡戰爭的確的那個到貨都比較不正常那這個案子我們王采緯在去年很多委員都關心過那自從去年以來我們新的案子我們對外採購的一萬兩千個我們是從 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7266.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7290.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
美國、法國現在來的品質都還不錯尤其我們的合格率都已經到達了85%跟90%以上那我們還有很多東歐的國家包括我們的友盟、捷克都有來投單相信這個情形我們從去年我們從王釗偉到很多委員都已經有關心這個問題目前我們的官方的採購的品質目前進度是正常的跟委員來做個回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7291.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7313.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
好,那我想再繼續問一下就是說呢因為今年的五月嘛又有在這一個我看有這一個夜市季的這個尋商公告啦那這件事情呢大概有這個也是五萬具由401之外想要尋找其他的那剛好聽到可能有美國、法國等等之類的那我知道我們自己是不使用這個中國製的這個相關的零件那我想問一下就是台灣的廠商呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7314.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7315.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我問這個原因是因為我知道台灣一直以來也都有廠商在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7341.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7367.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
但是有兩個困境第一個困境就是說呢我們在找這些台灣廠商的時候我們是跟他拿成品還是說他的技術也要能夠交給軍方呢?我們是跟他拿成品當然包含後續的維保的料件還有後續的這些保固那第二個問題就是說呢在台灣的這些廠商他們有些他本來就直接做國外的案子他並沒有做這一個台灣國軍的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7368.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7381.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
如果他來找台灣國軍的案子目前這個標準為何?因為在最早的時候我們在採購這個美國法國之前我們有遇到這個就是不合格率高的這個狀況那現在要怎麼去解決這個問題?如果是台灣的廠商來的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7383.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7407.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
目前我們因為本身401廠它在剛剛您委員質詢的這個第一階段的採購就是401廠製造的那401廠事實上是有相關的關鍵技術那我們會從我們在細分階段從這些仿商的過程我們會評估它整個的價格還有相關的品質是否依照這段需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7410.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7431.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
謝謝這是5月的媒體報導我想問一下美國這部分的驗收不合格我先不問這個我問第二個在第三代光泛館採購案第一標案被評選他說不合格的廠商同規格第二標案得標的廠商居然是前案被刷掉的廠商是不是能夠針對這件事情做一個回覆呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7432.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7454.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
跟委員說明第一標被刷掉的是很多年了我們依照我們的採購法裡面的相關規定任何個標案它有沒有來承包我們的案子我們就是經過我們的國防採購室標準的一個規範當初它假如違反規定它被停權是停一年、兩年、三年都有相關的規範當時的原因是什麼當時的原因應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7456.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7482.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
當時的原因我們查了就是他當時的品質也是交不出來產量跟品質也是沒辦法通過的部分好那所以呢這一次因為我覺得畢竟是新聞報導所以有必要說明所以呢接下來就是如果剛剛像前面講的標準按照中戰需求都有一致的話那這一次第二次的這一次就一定要特別注意因為畢竟有發生過潛力然後我覺得這個是一定要注意的事那這一個全民防衛本來今天想問但我看時間實在是不太夠我這個先 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7484.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7501.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我這個先稍微跳過一下我問一下無人機就是說無人機因為之前我看到有這個DIU這個我看到部長也有提到就是先進國防科技小組那應該是昨天的新聞還是前天的新聞有講到AI的一個運用那我當然知道AI的運用在這邊因為我看新聞報導得非常模糊說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7502.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7525.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7525.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7549.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
因為本來要試飛這件事情可能要陸地然後往這個海上飛可能要飛個100公里那這個飛的100公里就要到海峽中線了所以這個對大家來講也是非常的困難那目前來講看到雅創這一邊它這三個地方距離加起來看來是50那50這樣來回可能就只能用來回飛來去測這個100所以在這個部分不知道現在在測試的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7550.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7552.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
拜託我跟委員報告您所提問的無人機的性能是一個樣機的測試 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7566.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7570.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
這是在我們採購的標案裡面的第一階段包含到資格標裡面這個樣機的測試已經在6月份已經實施完畢了之所以在雅創實施是結合它相關的科技這個是驗證我們國內的產能它跟實際的作戰需求不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7589.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7613.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
最有利標．在評選出來以後．我們會依據作戰需求的場景來測試．不見得會是在雅創．這個剛好之前也在辦公室的時候有提到．就是要符合作戰需求．所以我這邊也有把這些標案的地方有把它寫出來．譬如說制空6小時．最大飛行速度31．這個在最早的第一次的時候．看起來都是一個個別的項目．但接下來如果要符合作戰需求的話．它應該要綜合測試嗎． |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7615.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7641.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
因為如果它不綜合測試它只是單單過了第7項或單單過了第12項這個對我們的作戰需求是沒有意義的那因為只剩一點時間我再建議一下就是說因為無人機它會有一些功率跟頻率的問題那即使是同一家廠商它有不同的比如說它是建載的、木貨的它的那一個頻率不同那不同的話呢其實這個都可能需要跟NCC來做協調所以呢這個就是之後跟NCC協調這件事情可能也要盡快進行因為已經到下面這個階段了 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7643.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7667.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
已經在連六的部分已經有把我們軍用演訓的這個頻率波段已經有相關匡列了謝謝委員太好了謝謝那謝謝主席謝謝部長所以我們那個頻率都OK了是OK好謝謝部長請回我們下一位羅美玲委員進行詢答那本席在這邊宣告洪森漢委員詢答結束我們休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7674.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7675.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
謝謝主席。有請顧部長。來,部長請。是羅遠吼。 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7687.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7711.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
昨天是黃浦軍校建校100周年校慶當然這次的機會中國也是大規模的要邀請臺灣的退役官兵到廣州的黃浦軍校去做參訪原先傳出是要邀請將近3000名的官兵我想請教部長昨天有掌握到有多少人過去嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7715.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7716.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
這在你是不是說明一下? |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7723.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7746.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
這個部分在退府會嚴主委在回答的時候他有說大概是100位左右那是之前嘛之前還沒有就是還沒有過去之前說可能大約100位是昨天經過昨天之後我想國防部是不是也可以跟這個退府會這邊了解一下到底有多少人過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7747.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7766.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那因為這次呢先前其實其他的委員其實也有稍微有之前我聽過他們就是有在問說他們除了去參訪之外參加這次的活動之外讓我們覺得可能要請國安單位或者是說請我們國防部這邊要留意的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7767.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7794.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
這些退役的軍人被帶到廈門去辦比如說居住證、敬老證、駕駛證、銀行卡等等因為辦理這些證件是不是需要他們的這些指紋、照片等等我在想這會不會有國安的疑慮這部分我們有掌握嗎?因為之前的報導是這樣昨天黃埔建銷100周年在結束了那你們所掌握到的有沒有相關像報導所提到的這樣子他們到那邊辦了各種的證 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7796.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7823.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
然後把自己的這個神武特徵呢可能你是上交給中國有沒有這樣子的狀況?有嗎?這些退軍人到中國去國防部完全還是說這次退府會的事情與你們無關你們好像對這部分完全沒有掌握的感覺我完全不知道無法掌握那就糟糕了 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7825.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7838.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
因為這個是退役的部分我們再跟那個輔導會那邊再聊一下所以這是輔導會的事情所以國防部這邊完全沒有退了之後就跟國防部就沒有關係了嗎?是這樣子嗎?我在想這應該不太對 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7850.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7869.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
昨天賴清德總統有提到說中華民國在哪裡黃埔精神就在哪裡甚至國民黨的朱立倫主席都說中華民國在哪裡黃埔精神就在哪裡可是我們看得出來有些退役金人對這個部分好像沒有認同我就覺得這是非常糟糕的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7869.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7889.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7889.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7906.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
其實這是扣分的所以我在想這部分不單單這是那個退譜會的事情我想國防部都要來了解到底這些軍人退的軍人到了那裡去他們到底做了什麼事情然後對國家的安全有沒有影響我想國防部今天的回答就是讓本期還蠻失望的 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7910.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7928.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
因為我們主要是在以秘密離退人員的核定他附入管制的這個期間裡面從3年甚至一直到10年當然管制之後我們還是希望這些不要附入參加黨政軍的活動而有妨礙國家尊嚴的這個行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7930.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7946.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
就這個部分在離開這個管制的這個期限之後那我們還是會對這些退役的這些將領們我們來會與關切然後來跟他做充分的說明這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7946.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7969.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
是啊,我是覺得說這本來就是應該是國防部應該要有延續的這個關注而不是說他退役之後當然我們知道說他有一些限制的年限年限到了之後他們到中國去做什麼好像就與國防部無關好像就是跟輔導才是輔導會的這事情我想這部分真的是不 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7969.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7995.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
這個部分委員的指教我們會來跟退輔會好好的研議大家互相來協助因為這是跟國家安全有關係這部分應該是各個部會國安單位都是要來非常重視的部份大家都一起是國安單位的一員應該是我問到相關的單位應該都有一些認知而不是說這個是他們是退役軍人然後是跟退輔會有關係我覺得這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7996.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7997.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
除了這些退役軍官呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
8022.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
8049.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
拜訪中國、接受他們的招待也好：或者是同戰也好：那最近也有一些像這個網紅都有透露就是說像中國呢用幾家酒的方式邀請台灣網紅到中國去其實類似這種他們中國利用各種的方式用各種的方式要來滲透台灣我想這都是國防部要特別留意的事情那再來還有一點我想請教的就是說像我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8050.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8052.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
但是你知道嗎?部長你知道嗎?就像台灣有好幾百萬人在用小紅書、用抖音 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8068.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8071.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我想請問一下像中國它有一些假訊息或是大外宣然後經過像這個小紅書抖音來做這個傳遞那讓台灣的年輕人全面的接收這個訊息的話那我們要怎麼辦呢我們像國安單位也沒有辦法說到這些軟體去做一些澄清那怎麼處理呢這部分請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8096.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8103.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
跟委員報告就我的理解是這樣子因為我在國安會也待過我們這個是整個是跨部會的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8104.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8128.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
一個協作的關係那麼整個認知作戰反認知作戰這樣子一個部分整個是一個全面性全政府都要來做的事情那國防部立場就是加入在這一個反認知作戰的這一環那我們著重的當然是在我們官兵部分的在媒體制度跟認知作戰宣傳的這一個部分要來著重 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8128.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8156.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我們資通電軍這部分要如何再做監管比如說像有些他們在小紅書或抖音可能也有一些跟國安有關係的一些訊息的話我們有辦法去做一個監管嗎因為我們現在是全面在禁止使用這些軟體如果說經由這些小紅書或是抖音出來的這些假訊息我們的資通電軍是如何去掌握這裡面的內容呢請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8156.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8183.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
您是說對於我們的官兵在使用這些不是不是不是我是說我們的我們有一個自通電軍嘛是不是對我們有自通電軍我們是不是如何去掌握說像小猴叔抖音像民眾如果接收這些訊息的話然後是跟國安有關係的話你們是如何去掌握呢請問我想這主要是在國安那個政戰局的這一個那個文宣大文宣的部分來做一個掌握這樣是 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8184.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8203.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
跟委員報告我們如果有發現就是跟國防有相關的假訊息那我們會即時的去做一個澄清透過我們相關的文宣管道我們都會進行有沒有協作就中共協作的這樣子的一個激政 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8204.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8208.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
閱讀新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8229.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8233.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
接下來進行詢答的委員是紅色岸委員紅色岸委員詢答結束我們休息五分鐘來紅色岸委員請請顧部長來部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8260.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8273.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
是,黃委員好部長,這個我今天其實是想要來跟部長討論的還是是我們其實在這個很多我們軍職的人員那退伍以後的這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8275.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8293.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
在1991年的波灣戰爭的時候我們其實看到這個美軍的後勤的司令其實其中有一個中將那他其實為了這個物流的管理那設計了整個條碼的系統那這個打完仗以後退役後他其實就到一個很知名的百貨公司去當副總 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8295.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8309.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
其實這是一個非常好的案例其實軍事相關的物流管理的經驗它其實就成為下一段質押的累積那我們今天在討論到的是這個軍職轉換的問題其實我們知道現在有很多軍校的學生他們從15歲、18歲進入 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8312.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8329.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
過去的想法是他其實退伍就退休了但是我們都很清楚知道現在狀況可能不是這樣我想給部長看一下這是我們從退伍會這邊拿到統計的資料在近三年的退伍人員裡面第一類的平均的人員退伍時間是41歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8331.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8355.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
第二類官兵63.7%平均退伍年齡26歲所以很明顯大家知道其實這個軍職只是他執牙的第一戰絕對不會是中戰我知道現在國防部花很多力氣在思考怎麼再去做招募其實這次不管執政黨也好在野黨也好大家都給很多的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8356.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8379.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
但我不知道部長知不知道其實有很多年輕人他其實不願重軍很重要的原因是因為他們會想到的不是只是報效國家這一段他想到的事情是如果他離開了軍隊以後他找下一份工作如果都會是覺得從零開始的話那沒有什麼重要的累積的話他就會開始思考那我到底要不要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8381.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8402.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8402.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8412.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
不是退府會其實是國防部部長同不同意是這個在他軍里的生涯過程當中他 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8414.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8435.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8435.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8449.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
那當時這個軍民職業的對照他其實是一個很簡單的這個職業別的對照看一下螢幕上面他大概就把我們空軍的飛行員他大概就說你可以轉職去開民航機軍卡的駕駛那大概就說你可以轉民間卡車的執照 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8450.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8461.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
所以在這個狀況之下比如說我們野戰部隊裝甲兵就沒有對應的民間的職業了這是那時候我們發生的狀況所以當時這744項軍隊的職務裡面只有少數可以直接對應的狀況下其實當時這個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8468.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8493.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
最後是失敗告終的所以不然我現在談的不是簡單的職業對照是我們能不能參考其他部會這我也問過退輔會比方說在勞動部裡面他其實花了很大的力氣去找各個包括一些專家學者來針對他們職能內涵的轉換來拆分舉例來說他把它拆成幾個層次在主要職責上工作任務上跟這些工作任務背後需要什麼知識、技能 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8493.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8509.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
來做一個這樣子一個完整的對照表我們現在看到不只在勞動部包括在經濟部、教育部其實都有這樣子比較用科學的解析的模式去細分你工作的這個內涵的職能的部分目前我們看到其實坦白說好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8511.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8529.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
所有需求的部會裡面只有國防部還沒有建立這個職能基準的這樣的對照的分析再加上大家都知道其實軍隊其實比別的部會來的封閉的所以其他的民間公司很難想像我們這裡面一些官客到底是在做什麼我們這邊舉個例子如果你是一個裝甲營的營長 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8531.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8552.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
一個中小企業的老闆他看到你的履歷上面寫戰車營營長他大概想的事情是說我們又沒有坦克車所以你到我們這邊來要做什麼可是如果今天國防部可以協助他們把這個職能的內涵給分析清楚的話你大概就知道說其實一個營長他要管 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8552.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8580.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
四百多人的生活、演訓的任務甚至這個我們很多的戰車的維修調度這裡面包括很多重要的知能啊可能有領導力可能有運輸管理可能有人知可能有倉儲管理如果這樣子的專長跟專業一個人在一個營長上面都可以有的時候他如果我們國防部可以把這些所有的知能都分析出來寫在他的履歷來說的話我們相信他下一階段的職能轉換 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8581.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8609.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
很多企業的老闆就會完全看出不同的這個人背後的潛力甚至聘用的這個吸引力就會完全的不同部長同意嗎?是,我同意但是這個工作到目前為止其實大家談的很久其他部會都做了但我們現在看到反而是我們國防部跟退府會還沒做所以大概在一個多月前我其實也問過退府會退府會說目前那個顏德發 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8610.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8639.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
主委跟我說他們願意來做甚至他們說他們願意出錢所以我今天為什麼要在這個地方再問一次顧部長因為我們很清楚知道就算今天退府會出錢可是大部分的人力資源資料抱歉還是在國防部的手上所以國防部在這個事情上面是什麼態度我認為就是非常非常關鍵甚至我都認為比退府會更關鍵所以部長你覺得這些下面的工作你有沒有打算往這個方向來推動或怎麼推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8639.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8663.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
有,事實上跟委員報告因為我看到那個退伍會來這裡的時候就有提到說好像大院有希望他們提出一些方案出來我是六月初的時候先問了他們對,那我當時就跟原主委我有跟他講我就說國防部應該要跟退伍會來合作來做好這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8663.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8686.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以我事實上也了解我們現行的這個做法是沒有辦法達到這個崗委員的這個期待所以我現在會來積極的來建立這樣子你剛剛講的這個只能轉換它這個相關的這些不是那麼簡單的講就是說你的戰車營營長然後就對照到民間的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8691.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8709.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
關聯的專長這樣子的部分應該是從他職涯的歷練上來看包括他後面的知能你能夠把他的知能給分析出來對,那不涉及秘密的這個情況之下那我們如何來做好這部分的工作不然我要提醒你其實這是一個非常非常龐大的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8710.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8731.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
﹏尤其是你們涉及到的軍種﹏跟你們涉及到的很多不同的工作崗位上面﹏是有很多不同的職能﹏我們今天在這邊談這件事﹏也不是希望大家吵吵的做﹏以我們看到勞動部﹏或者是教育部來說的話﹏他們做這個盤點的工作﹏是做了數年的工作﹏也不是一觸可擊就完成達成的事情﹏是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8731.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8749.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
他們確實是這樣所以今天如果部長願意往這個地方開始當然我覺得給他可以很大的肯定可是我是希望說有沒有可能我們其實有一個節奏甚至是有一些優先比方說我們來看2023年新退的官兵大概一萬五千人裡面這個布號裝的戰鬥官科裡面站 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8751.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8751.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
委員． |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8778.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8803.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
指導出這一個部分我們到現在為止做連結之間的一個弱點的這個點就布泡裝的這個部分事實上背後的職能、知識跟他的經驗的累積是什麼這件事情我們要好好來檢討然後來跟民間職業做銜接不然我倒會聽出你願意往這個方向去可是我有幾件事情我想要我可不可以請你在一個月內跟退府會 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8803.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8826.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
你們可以討論一個你們在這個這麼大的計畫裡面你們的分工關係是什麼那一個月讓我們知道送到這個外交國防委員會讓我們知道你們的分工關係這裡面你們的協同關係是什麼這是第一點第二點我們也希望說是不是可以每三個月來跟我們立法院來報告一次你們這事情的進度三個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8829.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8846.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
我來跟退伍會好好地討論一下因為我事實上對這件事情是很重所以我才會跟原主委有講當然我退伍會是能不能夠跟國防部在這個部分做配合未來我們就三個月排一次專報他就會來 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8847.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8848.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
謝謝紅山委員 部長請回 我們休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
9207.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
9210.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
好,我們恢復開會接下來進行詢答的委員張祺凱委員來,部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
9240.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
9246.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
今天我們說國防,國防第一的重點就是臺灣的安全及資金一定要顧到,對不對?是我可以聽很多委員問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
9254.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9279.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
首戰及終戰這個事因為我們總統說他說是一個投降主義不接受我聽到你答詢的時候你說的重點是要加強國防的防衛寸土必爭不會讓中共得逞是嗎?對嗎?你這個原則跟定位跟上個月來這邊答詢的邱部長邱部長我問他這個事 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9280.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9302.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
守戰及終戰,你說最高指導目標是必戰。您前後的國防部長立場是一樣的嗎?原則是一樣的嗎?一樣啊。沒有不一齁?備戰才能必戰嘛。備戰才能必戰。所以你把備戰做好才能必戰。是。所以沒有不一,兩個是一樣的。你是加強備戰所以可以必戰。啊邱部長在這講必戰是最高原則,是不是這樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9303.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9326.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
因為要用實力有決心能力然後充分的準備讓這個中共不會冒進來避戰這個就是我們我想這個目標都是一致的目標一致那你的方法就是加強我們的國防跟防衛包括美國會支持我們我們有很好的這個盟邦 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9331.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9347.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
其中的一環,你的防衛裡面其中一環很重要是美國嘛部長會這樣問的原因是因為,來我們看下一題金融時報今天報道說習近平說美國要誘使北京來攻台灣但是他不會上當 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9348.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9370.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
你怎麼看這個事情?是在可能會覺得比較安心說中國大陸不會來打還是說中共那邊可能在分化我們在放假消息我們來加強自己的防衛跟委員報告我沒有辦法證實這個金融時報的報導說秘密確實有沒有講過這樣子的話但是我想要講的一點是中國一直不斷的 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9372.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9395.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
宣稱不放棄武力換台然後軍事的擴張一直在持續的進行而且加速進行當中那麼對於這一個台海的和平穩定現狀他也不斷的在以切香腸的方式來進行這一個片面的改變現狀我想這樣子的情況是所以他才是麻煩的製造者我想這是很清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9395.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9414.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
所以保定,不能夠因為金融時報是很有名的國際媒體而且他引述的是說這幾年四月習近平跟這個歐盟的執委會主席範德萊恩說的不能夠因為他講了這個話我們就鬆懈嘛,對不對?是,是他提了一個理由啊,他說什麼?他說習近平特別有說啊,他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9416.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9439.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
如果中國大陸跟美國發生衝突會破壞中國喜多的這個成就而且影響他2049年要實現他的偉大復興的這個目標這個有沒有說服力?沒有齁?你都沒有管他啊反正你就是加強我們自己防衛我們資金安全還可以得到是不是這樣?是啊我們一定要夠得到我們自己的自我防衛能力跟決心喔所以你不會因為金融時報這個報導也不會說他報導的是對 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9444.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9455.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我們不能對中國有一個不切實際的幻想所以一定要準備好不要管別人怎麼講不能鬆懈那不能鬆懈有沒有一個辦法今天有美國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9461.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9488.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
評論家：國防評論家：他還說我們台灣是不是要招募非公民來從軍他說的是澳洲啦澳洲現在跟中國大陸關係有點緊張嘛他說的是澳洲現在允許當地居住至少12個月的永久居民去註冊來服役包括紐西蘭人而且擴大以後是英國人、美國人加拿大跟太平洋你作為國安部長你有沒有考慮過這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9491.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9509.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
這個看法怎麼看?你沒有考慮?還是完全沒有?兩國的國情我想不太一樣目前這一個部分還沒有在我們的思考範圍內所以我們不會去找非公民來當我們的...因為我們的從軍一定要中華民國的國民啊你這個要...那除非大院同意要進行修法立法院通過嘛現在就是有國際知名的這個評論人家在建議這個不類似我們考慮對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9519.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9526.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
接下來進行詢答委員是賴子寶委員你相會期要來我們這裡嗎?不排除我很歡迎你你現在就可以來了沒有啦,會在這裡啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9551.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9553.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進,請顧部長來,部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9560.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9588.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
賴委員好你好不是不是來部長這個剛才你已經回答了等一面回答了張委員問你習近平中共的總書記他說美國刺激我打台灣不上當這一句話這個是不是可以讓我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9589.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9602.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
你可以講我記得在這個地方陳明通接受我的質詢陳明通國安局長他說他保證蔡英文的任內兩岸不會打仗雖然後來蔡明硯有一點打臉他了說尊重他的講法可是事實上沒有打仗啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9614.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9640.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
你要不要藉這個習近平都這樣講的他不會上當因為以烏克蘭的例子就很清楚了俄羅斯被拖下水了接受美國的刺激去打了烏克蘭把自己拖垮了美國要用這樣的一個同樣的邏輯讓老共打台灣拖垮老共的實力他說不上當我們有沒有理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9643.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9646.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
說未來幾年兩岸不會打仗,你要這樣說嗎?跟委員報告,我還是剛剛講的備戰才能避戰啦中共在這個台海地區周圍對我們所進行這樣的演習不斷然後軍事的襲擾不斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9664.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9689.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
然後他的軍事的擴張的程度相當驚人那像這樣子的一些種種的一個作為我們沒有辦法鬆懈自己說金融時報這樣的講法等等等等我們也沒辦法去證實但是我們要強調以實力才能有效的嚇阻嘛是實力才是一個有效嚇阻的如果首戰一定是飛彈的齁我們有沒有實力把他打下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9690.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9716.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我...我...就不用具體了這個沒有秘密的問題就是你要讓我們有決心讓我們對你放心說我們部長在這裡他們只要首戰我們絕對要把他打下來首戰他就結束啦誒陳明東就說他不會勝算啦他不會贏啊你敢不敢在這裡講說以我們現在的武力我們的裝備老共即便來翻台不會成功你敢這樣講嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9718.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9735.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我們有這個自信認為在台海這個天險這種情況之下他要以兩棲登陸攻台他不要兩棲啊他飛彈我先問你飛彈飛彈我們有我們整體防空的能力不斷地正在加強當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9736.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9762.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
我們承受第一級之後我們做好戰力的保存我們可以有反制的能力什麼叫戰力保存就是不要打他先躲起來戰力保存我們一方面有整體防空的能量那一方面我們其他的反制的力量要做好整個機動的這個然後就地就做好戰術的位置然後來做好保存這兩個都是不違背的啊我們有整體防空的力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9763.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9768.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
聽起來感覺是第一集打的時候快點秘密起來保存實力準備進行巷戰你的講法變這個樣子沒有啦保存實力啥是保存實力跟委員報告第一集呢就請全力把他打過去了什麼叫保存實力聽都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9779.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9802.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
保存實力是比如說反艦飛彈等等要機動要保存然後包括雷達車包括這些下彎的我們要保存我們的戰力然後在承受第一級之後我們能夠反制回去而這個反制是要能夠有效能夠來摧毀它的有生戰力逐次的消耗現在可以有效把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9805.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9811.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我認為我們逐步的正在人力的建構當中我們有這個自信應該是有做得到我今天要問的問題就是軍備很重要你還有這樣的實力反擊我們看到省紀部111年的決算報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9822.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9827.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
已經簽了發價書沒有結案的419案有人講416台幣1.7兆我們已經付了1.1兆美方只交了8500億主席也問你這個問題我們在看結果因為審計部將這樣子糾正提出來國防部去改合約啊改了又改那個什麼交貨期啊改改了又說18項重要的合約只有剩下3項F16、V2 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9853.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9853.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
發言委員：發言委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9878.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9889.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
新式的戰機也是如此我們已經就把它放入研究委員你回答主席講說今年交兩架是吧那兩架要測評出廠原型機出廠要做什麼時候開始交旅約什麼時候開始交我們要求他們在2026年底以前66架全數交全部交完囉現在開始都沒看到喔你要知道我們的特別條例2026就結束囉2026你如果沒有交的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9905.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9906.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我們接下來進行詢答的委員是楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9941.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9942.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
謝謝主席。本席想邀請部長。來,部長請。市長、委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9951.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9974.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
部長好根據華虎智庫卡托研究報告美國軍售到今天我們尚未交貨的武器累計到190億美元是不是啊請教部長是他的報告是正確的吼是那麼在這樣的情況之下呢美國對我國的軍售是我們國防非常重要的一環對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9977.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9985.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
當然當然那如果武器研製呢交貨的時間繼續這個情況繼續那請教部長我們要怎麼應對請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9989.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
10006.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
所以我們跟美方一直在持續密切溝通那美方有成立這個Tiger Team來針對台海面臨的顯著威脅希望能夠從舊軍售案從各個面向來協助我們來快速的建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
10007.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
10033.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
就是包括軍售案的行政的審查的程序還有生產我們出來之後我們的優惠的排列到我們是不是提前接裝訓練然後全面性的協助來我們在他們這樣軍工產能不足的情況下仍然能夠快速的建立我們的足夠的自衛能力這樣部長你最後一個答案說仍然能夠提供有這個信心嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
10035.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
10048.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
剛剛好幾天委員報告我們有這個信心你有這個信心因為在前任部長往前推我們的結果論是研制的所以接下來本席要請教在報告的當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
10049.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
10065.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
他說期程你們都是以展延後的方式計算有沒有這回事沒有剛剛已經該跟委員報告了我們就是以第一版的發價書它所設定的期程來決定來看它是不是有構成延期 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
10067.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
10088.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
我們要給他理清楚不要以訛傳訛 這個對我們台灣不好的所以在這樣的情況之下您剛才所說的一個重點審查報告、審查過程要怎麼樣去濃縮是不是?行政程序的審查要縮短程序審查要縮短 有改善方式就好第二個也就是他們缺工的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
10090.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
10116.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那要怎麼樣還是補足我方應會依照時間點來交貨嗎?請教這個缺工的情況之下我們希望我們的生產的優勢能夠排在比如說最前面所以本席要請教你一個答案因為民眾要的是結果是一個安全我們既然有這個買了這些軍售當然希望如期回來一個結論請教會不會如期回來請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
10119.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
10140.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
跟委員報告我想明年、後年是一個交貨的一個高峰期也是我們付款的高峰期所以我會跟委員報告2026年年底之前像這樣子的延宕的情形會做很有效的改善會有效改善還不保證會如期回來嗎?是不是如此?我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
10142.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
10157.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我們現在共同來努力然後美方也承諾所以我們希望2026年的年齡以前這些情況都能夠有效的...美方的承諾是能夠如期回來嗎?按照現在我剛剛個別的項目跟...部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
10158.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
10185.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
新的部長就有新的作為我們希望的是答案那所以本席請教你剛才說得出的方案審查時間、程序、簡化、縮短那請教這個答案會不會如期交回來請教像F16新式戰機2026年年底以前我們希望它能夠全部那仿專甲的那個托式配彈我們希望在你今年年底以前今年年底以前全部能夠交易完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
10187.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
10206.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
你跳躍式的回答本席跳躍式的回答本席所以我還是希望你繼續努力去盤點既然我們有約定有契約我們要怎麼樣讓它能夠如期回來這是重點這也是今天一開始我們花了四個小時四分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
10207.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
10227.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
主席這給我4分鐘跟委員報告我們事實上還有其他的一些手段包括FMF、PDA等等這樣的軍演的一個手段來加強我們的防衛能力的提升這樣子這個因為很多是剩下的細節部長你還是針對本席的回答本席還是希望我們既然 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
10229.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10254.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
閱讀這些研製的我們希望也能夠如期鼓勵你們在各個比如說你剛才說的我們的審查它有調整的空間嘛縮短的時間、缺工他們要怎麼處理我們是買方欸我們不是賣方欸對不對我相信美國不會比我們不心急美國比我們也要更心急你這個答案本行沒有辦法接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10255.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10261.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我們一定心急我是買方啊我是買方你怎麼替買方講話你這個邏輯太奇怪你是中華民國的國防部長是保衛我們的我們雙方都有這個急迫感你如果講這樣還勉強可以接受但是你不能說美國比我們心急你這個話中有話他為什麼比我們更心急請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10278.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10279.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
接下來進行詢答委員是邱志偉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10308.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10326.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
謝謝主席,有請顧部長來,部長請邱委員好部長好,上週在總政卿我請教您關於自由自衛權的行使所以行使大概我想台大教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10327.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10327.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
先秘密、後公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10345.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10369.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
如果我國已經遭受武力攻擊必須按照聯合國憲章習慣法規則訴諸武力保護自己這是智慧權的行使跟第一級概念不一樣第一級概念是說如果那時候邱部長的說法是說無人機艦氣球侵入我國領空無需對我開槍開炮我方就可以加以擊落如果以國際法的實務來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10372.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10391.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
國會長時務來看其他國家面對敵對勢力他用這個無人機或者是氣球進行蓄意的闖入或者情報收集或者是這個政治的宣傳種種目的的時候其他國家的實踐會是怎麼樣去處理這是駕馭無力排除 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10393.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10417.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
像美國上次那個氣球不是飛到美國的上空嗎所以美國認為這個是具有間諜衛星的性質那侵犯它的領空那他們就派出他們的飛機去把它擊落那我國的失誤呢如果主要是發生在外島的領空外島的領空如果這種灰色地帶它用無人機進行情報收集或者是這個政治宣傳這個時候我們國際法作為基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10420.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10441.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
我們用武力去排除 這個應當是符合國際法法相關規定吧這個跟委員報告齁 因為現在大部分我想無人機的它那個會越到我們外離島上面都是一些小型的無人機它是零散性的齁 但是你不能判斷它是不是有政治宣傳或者是情報搜集的目的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10442.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10456.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
他主要的我想都是在從事認知作戰那我想我們是應該要進行這一個反制無人機的一個部署那我想這個最近也積極的在進行當中具體的做法是什麼部署就是你可以驅離嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10458.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10483.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我們要用那個干擾的方式讓他來進行其他國家像美國就直接擊落了嘛對不對他認為說這個氣球有這個情報收集的這個氣土他就直接加以擊落所以國際掌防是支持我們用比較強力的手段用武力來排除無人機的入侵這個未來實務可能要定得很清楚而且這種現象可能變成一個常態 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10484.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10509.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那我們前方這個所有的我們的這個國軍弟兄面對這種灰色地帶的這個這個狀況該如何處置對於這種突發狀況我們在突發狀況處置規定裡面有明電啦應該要加以排除排除的方法有很多啊是是有沒有包括武力當然有但是要很明確是什麼樣的情況之下你要使用武力 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10512.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10539.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我認為江教授的意見國際法上的實證應當是支持用武力去排除無人機入侵做情報收集等等目的所以我覺得應該更高強度否則你如果沒有用高強度來因應來嚇死他們每天都來每天都來怎麼辦我們這個防部勝防所以一定要拿出這個強力的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10541.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10555.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
另外這個問題先到此,高校機會不會延產?高校機會不會延產?延產,就是說66架嘛,會不會再延產?因為高校機這個性能非常好嘛,對不對?你平時是做訓練,暫時可以作為作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10561.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10588.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我們現在的計畫應該是沒有要再增產的沒有延產計畫那出交機未來是要國機國造還是要外交所以要由空軍來做一個評估有沒有一個方向再來要回答是,包委員因為出交機到122年才接受那這幾年正好是我們各種軍頭現在付款的高峰所以現在暫時還沒有優先決定所以還在評估了還在評估另外10秒鐘軍方的醫院軍事局蔡局長也在 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10589.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10598.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
有沒有因為護理師的運不足發生關床或者是剪刀的狀況? |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10600.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10619.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
有沒有這種狀況?有稍微局部的關闖,不過...這個不要發生這種狀況,你要...我們關闖的量跟民間的醫院比算小的我問過部立醫院啦,部立醫院或者是這個國立教學醫院幾乎都沒有這個關闖問題那到底誰在關闖問題?這個超過很多十秒鐘了 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10623.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10623.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
主席有請部長部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10655.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10681.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
是羅委員好部長首戰即決戰讓美軍衛到戰事已定這句話出自哪裡我這邊的資料就是說首戰即終戰最先開始是在解放軍報的一篇文章裡面好那我想問你我剛剛講那句話出自哪裡首戰即決戰美軍衛到戰事已定讓美軍衛到戰事已定我告訴你好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10682.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10705.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
是這個國防院2018年中共政軍發展評估報告不過他是提到中國強調啊對啊中國強調首戰即決戰啊讓美軍未到戰事一定沒錯吧所以他講的是中國的看法當然我後面要告訴你嘛就是中國強調關鍵這件事嘛事實上這句話的語意是說中共解放軍的戰略指導不是預測戰事結果對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10708.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10731.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
他們是希望戰事一開的時候就結合什麼滲透啦這個我講嘛他的這句話我知道你後面很多具體作為你講四個小時也講不完啦是那我要講說這句話整體是講中共解放軍的戰略指導不是預測戰事結果嘛對不對呃不是這是他的應該是他的主觀期待吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10733.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10744.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
你跟我講的一模一樣啊不是嗎我直接跟你講啦這句話也整體意義是說明中共解放軍是戰略指導並非預設戰事結果你知道這句話出自哪裡嗎這句話也出自國防院的新聞稿啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10749.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10763.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
所以我要跟部長講一件事情我想請問你國防院把中國強調首戰及決戰讓美軍衛到戰事儀我們先來解釋中共的戰略講定就是希望美軍還沒到就把戰爭結束了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10766.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10788.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我還是說對這中國的一個主觀上面的一個記憶對中國主觀嘛國防院也是這麼講嘛還希望速戰速決的這樣的狀態對啊所以我要講一件什麼事那我想請問你齁國防院把中國強調首戰即決戰讓美軍未到戰事已定這句話放進我們的政軍評估報告是不是投降主義呃我想呃 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10793.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10803.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
如果你講的是賴總統的演說的話我只講國防院我還沒講到賴總統演說我講國防院而已國防院強調的就是說我們不能夠讓首戰及決戰就發生嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10807.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10829.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
誰想要它發聲啊?台灣沒有人想要發聲,我只問你嘛,國防院把這句話放進去是不是投降主義嘛?如果說我們讓首戰局決戰變成真的話,那就是一種投降主義。我只問你,他把它放進去,把這個戰略想定,中共戰略想定揭露,讓我們有所防範,是不是投降主義嘛? |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10830.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10840.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我們就不能接受嗎?我們如果接受就是投降主義啊。部長,我跟你講過我們不能接受,我只問你可不可以放進評估報告嗎?跟委員報告,我們沒有辦法接受首戰局決戰,如果我們接受首戰局決戰就是投降主義。你講的評估報告是誰的評估?國防院的啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10853.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10873.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
國防院評估的報告...而且是蔡英文政府國防院2018年喔但是他不是在講我...他是不是投降主義我們沒有辦法接受首戰局決戰他講的是中國的主要期待嘛我跟你講過你在跟我鬼打架沒有人能接受啊我要跟你講啦光這個問題你迴避這麼久原因很簡單因為你也不認為國防院放進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10874.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10889.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
是一個投降主義嘛他是分析戰略假定嘛戰略想定我們要擊破中共的首戰即決戰的這個想法嘛不是嗎你不把中共的首戰即決戰想進去你怎麼去想出方式呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10890.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10914.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我今天這四分鐘馬上就結束了你光第一個問題你就問四分鐘我只想最後一個結論馬總統引述的就是2018的國防院的報告跟投降主義沒有關係我們都要急迫這個戰略想定關鍵是政府要有能力有信心急迫中共首戰即決戰的戰略想定沒錯吧是 這我們努力的目標請您努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10915.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10932.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我很希望有再多幾個幾十秒啦但是真的也沒辦法對,我也希望有四小時因為我第一個問題四分鐘就結束了歡迎再來謝謝下次再跟部長就教謝謝你歡迎歡迎那請回謝謝接下來進行詢答委員是李坤城委員謝謝主席我們請部長來部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10952.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10965.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
部長好,上次我在詢問部長的時候,那部長也有證實這個要成立類似美軍DIU的單位,那是編織在整平室的下面,在強化中科院跟民間研發單位整合嘛,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10967.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10992.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我想主要是在引進成熟的關鍵技術讓我們的這一個達到這一個作戰的實際的需要的這個速度能夠加快那我們是要去尋求這個不管是國內或國外適當的一個成熟的這樣的技術然後來引進然後來快速的加強我們國防的 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10993.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
11021.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
包括 自主能力也好或者是參加這個相關的國防產業供應鏈也好那這個單位是由部長親自來督導嘛 對不對我跟陳平師我們希望他能夠親自跟我報告相關的東西那現在大家都知道說無人機很重要那當然這一個無人艇也很重要那這個引述這個媒體這個就是報導就是說部長認為說無人艇的發展會以水面無人艇為主那水面下無人載具因為科技難度高 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
11022.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
11024.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
還不是目前的工作重點那這個引述有正確嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
11026.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
11053.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
這個是我當時在跟記者參敘的時候提到的這個它的水面下無人載確實有難度是高的但是也是仍然是在我們DIU要屬於要訪尋訪的一個重點項目我們不會我們不會放棄這個水面下的無人載去這一部分那現在因為有這個無人機國家隊但是我請問一下部長有這個無人艇的國家隊了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
11056.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
11083.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我們已經有在從事這個部分的專案看起來進度好像稍微慢一點嘛是不是?這個進度就相較於無人機的部分啦那我不知道說是不是因為在水面我比較看不到所以我直覺上認為說他的這個進度比這一個無人機的這一個這個進度要稍微慢一點各位報告因為這個委員表示機敏愛那我只能說現在目前都很順利目前進度都很正常 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
11084.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
11104.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
因為無人機有分軍用軍規、軍用商規還有各種偵察型、攻擊型、偵察一體的你也不能夠說它一定比它比較慢因為我們無人機的技術我就是問進度啦我們就是關心進度那當然就是這機敏性的資料無人艇的部門可能不太適宜做過多的揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
11105.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
11120.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
我一直想到一個議題就在6月9號的時候不是有一個具有中國解放軍背景的人長驅直入從福州寧德港衝到淡水來了然後在海軍跟海巡署都沒有辦法及時攔截的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
11121.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
11141.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
那我在想到說那如果有部署無人艇的話效果會比較好一點嗎?因為上次海巡所要就是說那個雷達只有這個光點啊這個一閃一滅的也不知道說到底是敵是友啊那如果有這個無人艇在部署在我們的淡水河口的話那效果會好一點嗎?能夠比較早知道說到底是敵是友嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
11143.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
11155.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
您意思是說是我們的無人艇?對對,當然是我們的無人艇啊但我也不知道我們有沒有一個設備啦我只是那個設想就是說如果有這個無人艇在的話因為我知道國外有這個技術啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
11157.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
11180.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
跟國防部報告我只能夠很簡要地回答說應該是有幫助的但事實上要怎麼去做我想我不適合在現在這個階段跟做那我是認為說應該是比如說有這個無人艇的話它可以來分擔一下海軍或是海巡署的部分的這一個偵查的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11181.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11196.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
他不但是有偵察功能甚至可以有攻擊的功能是啊那這部分我也因為這個是你們比較清楚我只是說就當時的情況之下如果我們有這個部署無人艇的話那部署在淡水河口其他的重要的這個據點的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11199.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11225.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
這個類似的情況就會減少讓它發生啦因為其實它還是要有一個雷達的一個偵測的系統當然啦然後這個AIS的這種自動辨識的系統等等這些但是我想這個部分我們還是會再來包括人員的訓練跟這個裝備的獲得要來加強是啊是啊我是就這個齁因為淡水這個河口是我們重要的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11227.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11228.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
接下來進行詢答委員是陳冠廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11266.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11267.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我們請部長來,部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11280.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11308.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
是陳偉部長好部長剛才幾位委員有提到這個DIU的規劃的大方向那我們這次就針對這一個規劃裡面先進國防科技小組的它的任務還有它的定位是什麼那我為什麼會這樣問其實DIU的機制它是除了是一個創新的管道之外它也是一個加速的一個生態圈那我是希望說我們來談論這件事情的時候能夠不是以國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11314.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11336.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
這是我們自己辦公室簡單二要的把從1945年到現在由他們美國國防部投資的R&D跟一般民間投資的R&D做一個簡單的梳理那因為是由三個不同的資料來源基本上我們可以看到這一個由國防部主導的這種創新是逐年在降低那由一般民間的是逐年在增高 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11337.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11347.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
那基本上60年代之後越來越明顯我想這樣子的文獻資料不管是中科院或者是其他國防部整平時真的應該都有過類似這樣子的研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11348.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11373.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
特別是在這些重要的科技巨頭從Google或者是一些科技大公司在美國的Meta等等還有現在新興的AI的公司、新能源等等它這個趨勢是非常的明顯所以當我們講國防或者是說國家安全的創新管道的時候我希望是不是以一個部門為主那我們是把自己想像成是一個加速器也好或者是一個催化劑也好應該會更加妥適 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11376.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11398.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
副長你覺得國防創新是一個管道還是一個它是什麼樣的你怎麼看在DIU在台灣的可能性你把它當成是什麼樣的一個組織是一個引進先進成熟的技術跟產品然後結合國內的產業還有包括中科院的科研能量來加速建構不對稱戰力 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11400.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11418.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
謝謝部長講的沒錯那他其實他變成說他不是一個組織然後一個由國防部全力在推動技術發展他就不是中科院他是在每一個不同的領域上面都能夠有重要的表現我為什麼特別這樣子談因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11419.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11430.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
在美國的DIU它主要的有六個專門解決國家安全的組合人工智能、自主技術、能源還有太空還有網路安全等等六大產業的這個部分那我們希望來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11432.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11448.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
它不僅是一個管道它是一個生態圈從民間來講我們現在剛剛提到的那六大國家安全的範疇其實是需要的這一個部門從科技界、生技業還有網路安全、金融界、法律界 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11449.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11470.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
國防、退伍軍人、中階、高階、創業家、技術人員都是在這個裡面我們是希望說他可以在每一個系統都能夠有我們部會來去參與來去協助來去加速比方說這一些來自科技、衛生、經驗或者是創業家他們想要進入國防產業的話首先他們要知道說我們現在各個 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11472.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11499.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
基地也好或者是各個部門也好他們現在在做什麼?他們面臨的問題是什麼?挑戰是什麼?甚至是預算上面的這個範疇是什麼?所以首先他們必須有一個boot camp就像是在2015年的時候當他們開始DIU是有一個X他也不知道說這個可以走多久他就知道最近應該是從去年開始這一個DIU的這一個主任才正式向國防部部長報告直接報告以前都還會有各個分層科可能的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11499.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11515.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
所以這是經過8年的這個試驗之後有一個更完整的系統出來所以我現在把這個聖誕圈簡單的用圖示的方式講出來就是說我們能夠參與的地方其實從教育開始就能夠參與教育的意思不是叫他們過來來我告訴你們你們該做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11517.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11541.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
而是把他們叫過來跟大家說這是現在我們的國防現況中科院現在大概在研究哪一個範疇大概是要做完整的背景查核所以跟顧部長之前講的接密的層級過他的國家安全的背景查核就很重要了因為他們可能沒有軍階這些民間人是怎麼會有軍階所以他們的涉密層級跟他們未來的涉密的這種背景查核就很重要所以國家安全是一環接著一環的 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11542.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11556.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
把他們經過12週以上的啟動營經過訓練之後再進入我們的簡單的原型跟初級方案我現在講的是DIU現在已經正在做的事情那裡面當然有美國他們自己軍種各個不同他們提出他們的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11558.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11578.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
提出問題之後讓這一些由科技業、生技業、創業家組成的小組這個小組是可能來自四、五個不同的背景組成了一個小組用真案的方式用最簡單、最小的方案先讓他們去嘗試那經過嘗試之後他們可以把他們的原型跟初期方案提供給相關單位不管是國防部、國安局還是科技部 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11578.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11599.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
當然國防的加速器就是由國防部來去提供相關的設備跟實驗室資源讓他們免去最初的資源投入我們講的不僅僅是已經是我們已經成了上市企業公司什麼經緯等等這些或者是我們過去這個漢翔由國家做的我們講的是中小企業就可以開始進入這個國防的產業在美國DIU從成案到這個招標和契約的週期是90天 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11608.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11633.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
從今天開始三個月後就已經成案就已經招標完成當然我們講的不是說大型的這種軍事的採購不是不是像潛艇不是像這種教練機等等不是像小型的解決方案因為我們未來運動的挑戰不見得是這種大型需要二三十年規劃的而是每一個結構體我們都必須要先做好準備所以從國防的加速到這個金融的加速比方說天使基金的投入A輪B輪之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11634.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11658.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
當他們成為國防部的這種合格廠商同時也可以成為我們向國際社會說這已經經過我們國防部或者是我們相關的官方單位印證出來的產業的企業那之後提供給我們在國際的友邦包含烏克蘭我們變成是說是一個由品牌由國家跟民間企業共同它表示說它不是關閉在一個黑盒子裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11659.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11683.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
他是能夠出去跟其他國家挑戰的經過這樣的認證我們還可以進入美國的國防產業鏈所以我們要打造的是一個國家安全創新的生態圈而這個生態圈我是希望是說是能夠依照它的特色比方說是跟生技相關的是跟科技相關的所謂科技方法剛剛我們講到無人機啊或者是水上水下載具等等都算來去偵測部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11685.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11707.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我記得DIAU在美國大概是從波士頓也有在麻州在他們DC都有也就是說他們在因應這一個地理特色比方說在波士頓可能是生技產業為主的cluster在這個生技產業裡面他們辦公室設在那邊就可以與當地的企業甚至是來自這些重大的這些高等教育出來的學生就直接可以合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11707.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11729.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那如果剛剛就不用講說麻省理工學院或者是哈佛大學所在地等等所以我們必須要因應區域還有這個地區的特色設置辦公室並且直接與這些民間企業開始接洽所以它必須是跨部會的那我們今天要講的國防的創新設施從剛剛講到現在從國防部、科技部甚至是跟我們金融都有相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11730.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11737.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
所以我是希望說部長過去不管是在金融、在法律現在是國防部的部長如果能的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11743.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11763.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
議員們都必須叫過來先來一個完整的會前會他不應該只是一個私或者是一個部門下面的一個部門就是說部門下面的一個組他可能必須他不是一個中央集權式的他必須分散式的在各個的部門接洽他是做一個我再講一次催化劑那最後我 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11766.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11794.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
講完這個是想要請教第二個部分這是再給我10秒鐘謝謝主席主席關於這個低軌衛星因為我們知道上次應該說上週我們針對這個民雄航太園區的規劃那我們提到無人機產業那還有航太的部分我想請問顧部長是不是有可能讓航太像是低軌衛星的這些產業能夠進駐我們民雄航太園區由中科院主導的東部的這個東廠區的部分有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11795.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11822.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我跟委員報告,我是聯六的次長現在目前我們所引進的低軌衛星是由數位部做整體的規劃有關於國防部的所有的需求都已經納入到整個案子裡面來做整體的規劃預計在今年我們可以獲得我們所有的一些相關的裝備 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11823.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11849.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
你可以獲得地軌道衛星了,今年?我們的裝備。那所以說如果進駐我們的產業園區,如果我們希望航太園區進駐產業園區,西部的部分,就是西半場的那個產業園區是不是由國防部這邊協助,還是由哪一個部門去來做統合?報告委員,現在目標我們送的國防會去審查的,目前規劃的還是以無人機跟航太產業為主。 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11850.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11876.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
低軌道衛星是韓太產業嘛對不對後來若委員您建議的我可以跟嘉義縣政府再做個溝通協調好因為未來發展好謝謝謝謝陳冠廷委員這個我詢問一下你剛才講我們低軌道衛星我們軍方需要的部分是由速發部主導嘛我把我們的需求丟給他們嘛那你說你們今年可以取得裝備OK驗證你要加驗證兩個字我說你怎麼拿得到裝備好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11880.726 |
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來接下來進行詢答委員鄭天才委員來主席各位委員有請部長來部長請是政委部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11909.216 |
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11937.769 |
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過去在你當立委的時候我們常見面我離開之後我們大概第一次見到你是很高興見到委員今天特別談這個精良的軍備這個是我們不斷的要這個去採購或是去製造都應該的但是也要有更要有精良的軍人 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11940.688 |
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11966.717 |
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我們看這個是2023年10月16號的一個報導志願役不是服然後兩年超過7000人離開我們的志願役這樣的一個數字是相當高我們看這個是112年度的國防部的預算書 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11969.194 |
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11984.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
一一三年度沒有呈現沒有呈現那希望這個一一三年度的部分也請國防部再補充可以嗎提書面資料給我好我們看這個軍官 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11986.159 |
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12005.567 |
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軍官的人數上望6710人這是一百一十二年度的預算數士官八望九千八百零一人士兵這個士兵是指志願役部長這是志願役的士兵四望四千九百一十一人這樣的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
12007.472 |
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12027.068 |
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志願役：士兵：士兵更重要當然士官要有軍官也要有第一線的還是要有但是這個人數真的是很少所以剛才講的這個市府兩年就離開這麼多就是指士兵了志願役的士兵 |
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12028.496 |
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12056.294 |
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我們看這是112年志願役士兵的實領的薪資當然這個今年有調薪有增加了那我們就以這個數字來做比較二等兵35320元一等兵37000多上等兵38000多這樣的一個數真的是很低 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
12057.25 |
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12085.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
好,我們看這個勞工基本勞工的薪資的一個現況基本工資2021年開始不斷的提升都應該的當時月薪台幣兩萬四千2021年每月經常的勞工的平均薪資四萬三千多部長2021年就比我們志願役士兵高很多 |
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12086.474 |
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12099.4 |
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四萬三千多二零二二年基本工資又調高了哈兩萬五千兩百五十然後勞工的平均薪資四萬四千多四萬四千四百一十七 |
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12101.358 |
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12128.792 |
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然後2023年基本工資又調高兩萬六千四百勞工的平均薪資也調高了四萬五千四百九十六元2024年今年基本工資也調高了兩萬七千四百七十這個平均勞工的平均薪資四萬六千一百零五所以我們如果看我們的 |
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12131.95 |
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12145.209 |
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這個志願役的士兵執領的薪資當然這是1、1、2年了1、1、3有在調高了所以這個數字可以後續提供嗎部長1、1、3的可以素面資料提供給我嗎可以 |
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12147.591 |
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12169.943 |
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講這個就是要讓部長要去跟相關的部會組織總署要提升自願役的相關的席次當然包括事官、軍官尤其是士兵啊剛才前面委員有提到平均幾歲就要離開了 |
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12191.227 |
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他沒有再升的時候,士兵啊,志願役的士兵沒有升士官,士官沒有升軍官,少尉沒有升中尉,中尉沒有升上尉,沒有升少校,沒有升中校,他就要退了,所以年齡都很低。 |
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就會涉及到後面的下次再跟你討論這個有關後面的這個相關的這些就業的部分所以就基本上這個精良的軍備也要有精良的軍人職業軍人來去才能夠真正能夠那個才是真正能夠備戰啊 |
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12214.926 |
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對不對,不然的話如何備戰部長這個是新這個因為你剛上任啊就是回去讓你去提高流言率還有這個看看哪些部隊的這一個邊線比過低我們要對症下藥這個部門正在積極的研議這樣子謝謝政經財委員部長請回這個是沒有含加級的我知道這個沒有含加級的那個總統公正也應該 |
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12246.694 |
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接下來進行詢答委員是翁曉琳委員部長請 |
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12287.922 |
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昨天您有陪同賴總統一起去參加入關的百年校慶。您看到這個精神抖擻畫著步伐整齊畫一的三軍官校學生踢正步,您有受到感動嗎? |
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12289.113 |
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12318.013 |
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所以我想他們的士氣都相當的高啊是是是,OK我也很深受感動那賴金德總統昨天有說了一句話那我覺得這個部分可能需要再請部長再來回應一下賴總統說中華民國在哪裡黃埔精神就在哪裡我想請問部長我們中華民國在哪裡我想中華民國現在在台澎金馬已經落地生根 |
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12325.576 |
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這是什麼意思我們的意思就是說黃埔在創建的時候並沒有中華人民共和國 |
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那黃埔創建的時候是中華民國那後來隨著不斷的時期南京、成都然後一直到鳳山都是隨著中華民國那所以中華民國在哪裡黃埔精神就在哪裡因為部長您是法律人所以我不想我們就直接切到法律的角度裡面來談中華民國在哪裡的這個問題我想請問部長從憲法跟法律上的角度來看您認為中華民國在哪裡 |
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中華民國現在有效的這個治權、統治的這個範圍,就是我剛剛講的,就在臺灣監獄。好,是有效的治權範圍,對不對?好,那我們來看一下下張地圖。來,請部長,請問您承認這張地圖嗎?您認為這是中華民國的地圖嗎? |
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我認為我們中華民國現在有效的統治範圍就是颱風金嘛是,我現在想的是領土領土的範圍,對不對?主權包含政府、領土、人民我們的領土,您承不承認這是我們中華民國的領土? |
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我只能夠跟委員說如果要照您這樣講的話那外蒙古現在這個地方所畫的外蒙古我現在是從中華民國的角度從歷史政治上的角度來看這張地圖您承不承認您作為中華民國的國防部長您認為這是我們中華民國地圖嗎 |
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我只能夠回答說我們現在中華民國有效統治的地方所以您還談的是治權嘛所以主權的部分您要迴避接下來我們來談一下下一頁我們就從憲法上面來談談吧什麼叫做我們憲法前面裡面有講為因應國家統一前的需要然後做了這個憲法的修正什麼叫做國家統一我想這一個我們要跟誰統一 |
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國家統一的這個部分在我們現在至少就我的理解我們現在並沒有再採取反攻大陸的政策 |
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12444.592 |
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是您不採取反共大陸的政策還是我們全中華民國的國民不採取反共大陸的政策至少就我的理解所以是您部長個人自己的意見在我們的憲法第11條裡面非常清楚中華民國現在涵蓋自由地區與大陸地區接下來下一頁在兩岸人民關係條例裡面也講得很清楚 |
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12465.79 |
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12486.997 |
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我們的兩岸地區是指的兩岸地區與大陸地區請注意大陸地區的規定指台灣地區以外的中華民國領土從憲法跟法律的角度裡面非常清楚大陸地區就是中華民國的領土請您作為國防部部長不要忘記這麼重要的法律的意涵 |
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12489.732 |
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12499.844 |
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接下來我想請問一下我們現在就是台灣澎湖金門馬祖基政府統治權所在之其他地區是所以這是治權我現在跟你講的是主權跟領土的部分來接下來請下一頁 |
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12506.697 |
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12534.225 |
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這是我們中華民國的領土的規定在我們的憲法憲法徵修條文裡面都講得非常清楚領土就是依照我們的固有疆域非經國民大會的決議是不可以變更在後來這憲法徵修條文裡面有講如果我們要變更領土必須要由立法院提起領土變更案那麼並且要進行全國人民的在台灣地區自由地區全國人民的這個公投賦決 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12535.665 |
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12562.836 |
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我希望部長不要忘記這件事情在我們沒有進行憲法公投覆決之前中華民國的領土範圍就是我們剛剛所講的在憲法還有兩岸人民政修條例裡面所指的領土範圍接下來下一頁賴總統說中華人民共和國跟中華民國互不相隸屬代表是說賴清德總統是承認中華人民共和國是嗎? |
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12564.416 |
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12582.294 |
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跟委員報告中華人民共和國現在事實的存在這個是毋庸置疑的事實我們不管其他國家怎麼承認怎麼去看中華人民共和國從中華民國的角度裡面賴總統是不是說中華人民共和是不是承認中華人民共和國 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12583.554 |
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12598.954 |
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委員報告您看您這張圖那個蒙古的地區又把它畫出去了我重點在於台灣中華人民共和國的領土有沒有包含台灣如果你們承認中華人民共和國的話中華人民共和國的領土範圍包含台灣 |
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12599.855 |
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12616.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我必須說賴清德總統的這樣的發言他作為中華民國總統他矮化台灣拋棄中華民國的領土然後而且給中華人民共和國有個合理化收復台灣的這樣的一個說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12618.055 |
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12643.353 |
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本席以為賴清德總統他才是中華民國的賣國賊賴清德總統說中華民國的這個前途是由2300萬人民共同決定不要忘記我們現在2300萬人共同決定中華民國領土是在哪裡我們有經過憲法公投嗎在沒有經過任何憲法公投之前請不要說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12647.327 |
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12672.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
這個中華人民共和國這個承認中華人民共和國基本上對中華人民共和國就是一個很大的傷害以上國防部的立場就是首途有責我們捍衛的就是中華人民共和國所統治權所及的地區我們寸土不浪謝謝部長我們今天這相關事情都處理完了不過這個不承認去中華人民共和國好像還是要過他們海關好接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12674.562 |
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12697.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
正正前委員、正正前委員、正正前委員不在以登記質詢委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束那機密報告部分報告已完成委員並沒有秘密詢答那我們就這個報告就已經都報委員會了 |
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12700.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12717.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
另外今天會議有林益君委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報相關機關已書面於兩週內答覆委員口頭質詢未及答覆部分或要求補充資料者 |
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12718.53 |
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12731.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
議請相關單位以書面於兩週內提供委員令約定期限從其所定那如以上有涉及機密部分請確實依相關保密規定辦理本日會議到此結束散會 |