| IVOD_ID |
16017 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16017 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第2次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[2] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[2] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第2次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-17T08:30:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-17T10:23:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:52:26 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db4704513b222bf9e49e564336fc7700a119186e52af12443248b898c22f1507365ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第2次聯席會議（事由：一、繼續審查本院委員羅美玲等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。
二、繼續審查本院委員王定宇等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案。
三、繼續審查本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案」案。
四、審查本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。
五、審查本院委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。
(第五案如經復議，則不予審查。）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:34 - 10:23:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
399.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
399.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
二、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1110.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1110.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
二、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1193.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1194.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
二、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1314.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1315.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
二、繼續審查本院委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1795.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1796.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
二、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1824.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1845.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
請主秘報告出席人數報告聯席會出席委員15人以主法定人數好我們現在開始開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第一次聯席會議議事錄時間113年5月22日星期三9時至13時13分 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1850.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1852.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
第2、繼續審查本院委員羅美玲等20人擬具第1次聯席會議第2次聯席會議第2次聯席會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1866.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1895.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
法務部、勞動部、勞動署等單位代表及相關人員、主席、邱昭及委員議員、討論事項、審查一本院委員羅美玲等人擬具:「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案案。」討論事項和並詢答委員王定宇及羅美玲說明提案要旨。國發會副主委高仙貴、報告號委員陳天飛等28人提出質詢。均由國發會副主委高仙貴、勞動部勞發署主秘程施昌為服務長照司副司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1895.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1901.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
五夕委員及教育部國教司代理司長廖高賢暨相關人員及其答覆後登記發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1904.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1928.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
委員處不在場者外區域均已發言完畢,詢答結束委員陳昭芝、張家俊、莊瑞雄、盧仙怡、邱振鈞、蘇清泉、雷淑芬、陳昭明、廖偉祥及羅廷偉所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢項會局答覆部分請相關單位一週內以書面答覆並複製本會二委員王定宇等人擬具:「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1928.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1938.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
三委員邱志偉等人擬具《外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案》案。決議尋答結束令定期繼續審查。散會宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1949.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1973.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
本院委員羅美玲等人擬具:「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案案。」二、繼續審查本院委員王定宇等人擬具:「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案 案。」三、繼續審查本院委員邱志維等人擬具:「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案 案。」四、審查本院委員邱奕寅等人擬具:「外國專業人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1974.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1989.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
引覽及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案案。五、審查本院委員賴瑞榮等人擬具:「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條及第十四條條文修正草案案。」宣讀而閉。好,那我們現在開始這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1993.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2020.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
本日議程所列討論事項已經在5月22日巡達完畢而後院會交付聯席會審查提案有本席等19人以及委員賴瑞榮等17人分別擬具外國專業人才延攬及僱用法部分條文修正草案案等二案現在共有五個版本然後我們今天就一併進行協商那我們現在先進行廣泛討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2022.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2031.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
廣泛討論無人登記發言我們請議事人員宣讀所有條文如果有修正登議或附帶決議請一併宣讀宣讀完畢以後我們再進行協商請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2034.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2060.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
外國專業人才延攬及僱用法委員邱志偉等提案第十二條刪除現行法第三項至第五項規定其餘同現行法條文委員賴瑞榮等提案第十二條同委員邱志偉等提案委員羅美玲等提案第十四條修正現行法條文第四項外國專業人才及外國特定專業人才在我國就學取得大學、校院、學士以上學位者 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2060.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2073.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
得折抵第一項及前項之在我國連續拘留期間取得博士學位者折抵二年、碩士學位者折抵一年、學士學位且就讀四年以上者折抵二年。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2074.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2101.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
復學士學位且就讀二年以上者折抵一年以上各學位不得合併折抵其餘同現行法條文委員邱瑩等提案第十四條修正現行法條文第四項外國專業人才及外國特定專業人才在我國就學取得大學、校院、學士以上學位者得依下列規定折抵第一項及前項之在我國連續拘留期間依外國專業人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2102.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2122.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
取得博士學位者折抵二年、碩士學位或學士學位者折抵一年三者不得合併折抵二、外國特定專業人才取得博士學位者折抵二年、碩士學位者折抵一年二者不得合併折抵其餘同現行法條文委員賴樂榮等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2123.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2139.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第十四條除第四項第一款修正為外國專業人才取得博士學位者折抵二年、碩士學位頓點、學士學位者折抵一年以上各學位不得合併折抵其餘同委員邱毅英等提案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2140.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2166.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
委員王定宇等人提案新增第21條之一外國專業人才外國特定專業人才及外國高級專業人才其本人配偶未成年子女及因身心障礙無法自理生活之成年子女經內政部移民署許可永久居留並合法累計居留10年,每年居住超過183日者,得適用身心障礙者權益保障法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2167.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2187.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第五十條及第五十一條及長期照顧服務申請及給付辦法之規定以下列各款情形之一為居留原因而經許可在我國居留之期間不記錄前項在我國累計居留期間一、在我國就學二、以前款人員為依親對象經許可居留 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2188.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2202.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
以取得第一項資格而經內政部移民署撤銷或廢止其永久居留許可者、終止適用身心障礙者權益保障法第五十條及第五十一條及長期照顧服務申請及不辦法之權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2203.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2220.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
但因回復我國國籍、取得我國國籍或兼具我國國籍經撤銷或廢止永久居留許可者不在此限。第一項之服務內容申請程序應檢附文件及其他相關事項之辦法由衛生福利部定之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2221.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2247.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
委員邱瑩等人所提修正動議第21條之一對照委員王定宇等提案第一項倒數第二具起修正為得因下列規定使用相關服務依經身心障礙權益保障法第五條所定之專業團隊鑑定及評估符合該法相關規定者得適用身心障礙者權益保障法第五十條及第五十一條之規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2248.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2257.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
二、依身心失能且符合下列資格之一者,得適用長期照顧法第八條之一第四項規定所提供之服務。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2260.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2287.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
65歲以上二、經身心障礙者權益保障法第五條所定之專業團隊鑑定及評估符合該法相關規定者其餘同委員王定宇等提案第一項第二項同委員王定宇等提案第三項第三具修正為及長期照顧服務法第八條之一第四項規定所提供服務之權利其餘同委員王定宇等提案第四項同委員王定宇等提案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2290.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2310.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好謝謝那我們現在就開始進行協商首先我們先進行第十二條條文的協商那第十二條條文有賴瑞榮委員的版本跟邱志偉委員的版本我是不是請國發會表示一下意見好嗎那委員如果有要發言的我們就呃邱志偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2318.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2343.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
主席還有各位委員大家好關於外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條考量到入出國籍移民法已經於112年6月18號修正過以後我們部分條文沒有重複擺放的必要所以我們也建議回歸到入出國籍移民法辦理所以本會支持委員提案內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2347.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2348.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
邱志偉委員之後是賴瑞榮 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2356.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2383.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
來,邱志偉這個十二條的部分大概我跟賴瑞榮提案是一樣的那建議修正條文也是跟我們兩人所提的版本是一樣的這主要是陸續國移民法已經通過了所以你第三項到第五項的規定是重複的我們就回歸到這個陸續國移民法這樣子適用法則才會一致化另外我之前請教那個主委整體的這個外國專業人才攬裁跟僱用 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2385.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2413.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
對於這個我們需要產業的人才是不是可以銜接得上或是補充足夠這個法律是不是它的誘因這個強度夠不夠吸引人才能夠提供給我們這個產業所需所以我本席一直強調說這個新經濟移民法是不是有這個必要性新經濟移民法你也了解是這個賴總統在當行政院長的時候提出的這個版本他有更全面化 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2413.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2427.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那你那個那時候是涵蓋所有包括這個中間藍領包括白領所有的專業人才那我認為那是一個好的版本那有沒有必要把這個現行所有版本再做一個整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2429.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2448.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
另訂一個新經濟移民法。部裡面有沒有這個想法要提部的版本,那我已經是提案了,我要提新經濟移民法,來補充現有這個外國專業人才攬裁跟僱用,這些這個目前現行法律規定不足的地方。我想請教一下主委的意見。 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2451.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2472.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
來 瑞榮等一下好了 那個瑞榮問完再好 謝謝我想這個部分的話如果已經有達成公示我建議就照邱志偉委員跟我們的委員的版本通過了那另外我也同時我也呼應邱志偉委員因為事實上我也有提了新經濟移民法我也認為其實重要的人力的補充很重要所以說我們現在少子化所以說我們的專業人才持續不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2473.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2491.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那對於中階的藍領或高階的白領這一塊用更有策略性的一個整個法來也讓國際感受到台灣對人才的重視跟整個支持啦那這個確實也是在當時賴清德總統還要擔任行政院長的時候他很重視的一個法案那我建議國發會回去要再盤點一下啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2492.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2520.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
放到這個外國專業人才延攬及僱用法當然也可以但是如果再單獨用新疾民法來立的話其實可以跟台灣的社會跟全世界宣示我們對這些中階跟高階的人才的重視同時也讓他們知道說你來到台灣為台灣長期付出了之後其實是有機會跟台灣成為一家人而長期在這邊發展的那我認為對於我們人力的補充對於特別面對少子化的壓力的時候其實會給台灣長遠的經濟有更大的幫助啦這也請主委整體思考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2521.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2522.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
謝依鳳委員陳婷暉委員陳婷暉委員主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2535.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2559.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
謝謝主席,其實我是非常支持這個外國專業人才延攬及僱用法的因為未來可能就是在AI的運用上面或者是在我們就是留學生就是跟這些東西南向國家的合作上面我們的確需要就是說更多的攬才的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2559.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2582.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
但是剛才邱委員跟賴委員所提到的新基金移民法我覺得我們必須要考量到到底會不會影響到我們本國的勞工以及影響到就是到底跟我們現在現行的就是新住民的法案等等有沒有什麼相衝突的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2582.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2603.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我認為這是必須要就是說綜合去考量的那這個部分我持保留的意見但是我支持我們外國專業人才延攬及僱用法的修正 謝謝好 謝謝 來陳婷菲委員我想新經濟移民法絕對不會是影響到這個就業的問題 國內就業問題因為我們現在最主要是人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2607.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2627.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
因為在這個上一次我們跟經濟部長在做諮詢的時候其實我們很清楚我們現在面對整個國際局勢的一個競爭我們必須很清楚說人才大家都在搶我們每一次修了法之後基本上人家又跑到另外一屆了 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2628.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2629.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
二、繼續審查本院委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2643.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2673.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
而不是影響到我們本勞的問題我覺得這必須要把它分得很清楚否則今天出去可能大家都會誤解我覺得這個分也要分得很清楚所以我們所講的新經濟移民法是說我們不要再一次每一次我們當然提人才的部分要去延攬人才然後修這個法修那個法而是一次性我們討論好現在國際局勢需要什麼樣的一個人才然後需要什麼樣的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2673.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2699.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我們一次然後希望透過我們國發會我們是know-how我們很重要都是一個平台但我們這個平台不是一個經濟部可以去談我們其實把經濟部要求你趕快去處理他也處理不了因為這是跨部會的所以我們希望說今天已經到了這個時間點從之前賴清德院長那個時候到現在已經又經過了好幾年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2700.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2725.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
事實上在整個這個國際局勢的一個潮流已經又變了好幾遍了所以我認為我們士兵應該趕快一次討論好一次處理好把所有各部位找來現在大家所需要的是什麼人才是什麼樣的一個競爭力在我們這個新經濟移民法法討論清楚我覺得這是比較重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2727.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2732.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
好來那我是不是讓陳金輝委員發言完就請那個國發會主委回答好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2734.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2759.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
今天在這個外國專業人才延攬跟僱用法審查雖然我不是主題案人但是也很想詢問主管機關就是國發會的主委一些相關於這個法案的意見那當然剛有聽到說陳庭樂有提到的很多是我也認同的比如說我們目前折抵申請永久居留的續留期間條件上是不是已經不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2759.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2783.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
所以導致我們已經無法透過高教的招生來搶國際的人才因此需要做這樣子的放寬具體的情況是什麼另外我也很想知道說跟我們比如說臨近的日韓等國的比較各自的條件啊施政措施是什麼我們是不是有比人家差是不是有一些國際上的案例可以來參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2785.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2799.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
第三、當然陳琦菲委員覺得可能不會影響到本土的就業人才不過因為現在是各級學校的畢業季所以同學們也會關心到說未來是不是會面臨到這方面就業的衝擊還有壓力謝謝好來請國發會 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2805.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2830.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
一併回答好謝謝各位委員的建議跟看法這些都是值得我們去思考跟了解的部分那其實政府在施政上面一定會照顧本國人民為優先這個是絕對是不容置疑的包括我們的就業率、就業狀況那我們本國勞工或者是白領階級我們都會充分的照顧這是一定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2831.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2856.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
只是我們現在面臨兩個問題第一個國際上快速的人才的需求跟競爭是非常非常激烈的加上我們的少子化大概我們現在新生兒也剩下12萬我們必須去填補它這個是整個全球的趨勢在亞洲部分我們其實在比較日本來講日本的JSKIP他現在最快速的不到一年可以取得永居就是高端專業人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2857.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2883.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
到一年就可以取得了。我們目前來講,如果我們這次不修正的話,我們大概要到兩年到三年才能取得。相較的話,我們跟日本的人才吸引比較就會比較落後。最近韓國也在調整,泰國也在調整,新加坡也在調整。所以我們必須跟上去做一個競爭。我們現在的目的是絕對不能以不輸為原則,一定要做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2883.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2884.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
議員王定宇等二、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2905.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2933.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那我想這個一個整合性的規劃是一個可以可以被考慮的事情我們也會去請各部相關部會也會跟跟院報告來看看是不是我們來做一個比較整合性的探討讓我們未來的國家人才競爭力會做得更好對主委你的答覆我覺得還沒有回到重點新經營運法是經過行政院院會通過那時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2936.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2946.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
你要行政院通過市中委嚴謹程序,州委員要審核,然後各部會要提供意見,然後送來立法院,按當會前列為優先法案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2947.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2970.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
現在新經濟的形態日新月異一直不斷地演變所需要的人才的樣態也一直不斷地改變當然需要一部專法你現在把白領用國發會的外國人才的僱用方法來弄然後藍領的部位又從勞動部去 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2972.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2985.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我覺得這個整體需要一個專法來整合那個邱志偉委員因為我們今天審查的是外國專業人才的攬財條例我們到時候再討論新經濟移民法的部分您再提我們再來就這個部分來研討好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2987.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2989.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
接下來我們請看第十四條條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3013.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3024.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
對,第十四條的條文有羅美玲委員還有邱益穎委員賴瑞榮委員的提案那請國發會表示一下意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3031.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3049.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
關於這個條文因為我們比較過跟目前臨近的國家的比較的確我們原來的法條是比較稍微有點沒辦法跟上整個亞洲的一個競爭狀態所以尤其是跟日本的比較我們差的 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3050.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3068.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
稍微遠了一點所以我們本會目前是贊同委員的提案就是說在博士可以折抵兩年、碩士、學士或者副學士可以折抵一年所以我目前支持委員的提案接下來羅美玲委員我有看了國發會 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3078.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3103.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
還有各部會的針對上一次的書面報告那國會針對有一部分的意見認為要這個要由衛生福利部來表示意見那有的是會寫說要尊重這個勞動部的意見然後勞動部的報告裡面又提到尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3104.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3131.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
本院委員羅美玲等16人擬具 «外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案》案。 bicy,你現在講的這個是下一條?就是王定宇的那個案?我還沒有講這條。我還沒講完嘛。因為我想說你講到那個勞動部跟衛福部那個是下一條的條文。教育部,今天設立到教育部嘛。我馬上就講到教育部。那教育部這裡面也提到尊重國發會的意見。那教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3133.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3156.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
這個當然他就教育部來講他考量的我不知道是不是應該是沒有考慮到原住民的這個救血我們原住民救血大專校院從107年到現在沿漢的初債協力沿漢的大專校院的初債協力 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3158.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3159.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
本院委員王定宇等16人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3182.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3197.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
我在教育部質詢或甚至跟行政院院長質詢,怎麼樣去提升原住民的就讀大專校院,百分之三十幾是很大吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3202.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3229.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
所以這個部分這個也會影響到這條條文收短後來本來沒有那個協事什麼還附協事都會影響所以這個部分在沒有去考量到這個在地的就業或是就學都會受到影響所以包括前面後面的條文也都會有這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3230.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3249.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
問題因為專業人才很廣的專業人才很廣難道我們台灣的各大學都沒有培養這些專業人才嗎所以這個部分我們也必須考慮到尤其是勞動部也必須考慮到我們的就業 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3251.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3252.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
二、繼續審查本院委員王定宇等16人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3281.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3305.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
在地的就業主委因為你剛上任不是很清楚我們的就業率有比較好沒錯但是員工的薪資有沒有比較好有沒有提升沒有我最近跑行程我們的鄉親就告訴我為什麼我們跟外籍勞工的薪水一模一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3308.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3329.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
所以很多的這些廠商啊就禁用外籍勞工嘛那我們的在地的那個我們各級我們不管是原住民還是不是原住民都一樣如果整體你國發會就現在整體去看整體去看各種狀況為什麼我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3333.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3359.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
很清楚啊 主席總署的那個報告都很清楚啊為什麼我們的薪資的提升有限呢甚至倒退都有啊基本工資一直提升沒錯基本工資提升是對這個外籍勞工有利啦我們都歡迎但是對本勞的本勞的就業或者是他的薪資是不是受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3360.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3373.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
多有,所以國安會要衡量的是全部,要整合各部會,然後尤其是相關的這些統計數字,以上。好,謝謝鄭天才委員。接下來請羅美玲委員,羅美玲委員之後是范雲委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3376.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3391.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
謝謝主席不管是外國專業人才或是外國特定專業人才其實他來到台灣其實還是有一定的這個條件而且我們也希望就是說這些優質的人才都能夠留在台灣當然我們要有一些誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3391.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3410.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
|
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3411.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3424.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
只是支持這兩位委員的版本可是因為現在副學士已經納入了評點制所以我就期待就是說能把副學士納入可以折抵一年以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3426.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3444.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
謝謝羅美玲委員接下來請范雲委員范雲委員之後是陳婷菲委員其實我就是想問這個羅美玲委員的版本因為副學士他取得的時候是不是同時要有一個學士學位才會有副學士那又不能合併計算我有點不了解想要問這個問題不是像副學士他像是二專 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3446.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3447.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
三、繼續審查三、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3467.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3471.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
陳婷菲議員賴瑞榮、謝伊鳳議員我們在質詢的時候其實已經有跟我們國發會都有就教過了就是說還有經濟部這相關單位就是說我們確實現在是需要有這樣的一個所謂的他的一個學士則底或是碩士則底的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3494.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3494.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
三、繼續審查三、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3511.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3512.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
三、繼續審查三、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3531.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3532.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
賴瑞隆委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3551.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3574.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
好 謝謝主席我想現在全世界大家都在搶人才了那怎麼樣把一些人才能夠留在台灣那至於大家擔憂的一些有些的這些是不是影響到我們的一些人力的部分這個其實是有特定的包括外國專業人才或者外國特定的專業人才他都有一些限定的其實是國家所需要的一些特定產業我們確實找不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3575.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3576.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
本院委員王定宇等16人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3592.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3620.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
大家整合過各委員的意見那國發會同意以後其實我們是把這個包括博士則兩年、碩士、學士、副學士則一年那如果外國的部分的話是只有碩士則一年我認為這個已經形成大家有一個共識了我建議就照這樣的版本來通過那我希望說這個未來對於這些居留時間的扣底能夠讓這些優秀人才未來優先選擇來到台灣來居留感受到台灣在競爭人才這個尋求人才上的積極度 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3621.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3647.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
另外我再補充一下,因為《新經濟民法》其實版本其實我們委員的版本已經有進到委員會來討論我也希望國發會盡快把你們版本今年度能夠趕快送進來那也希望再有機會我們大家來加快來討論希望能夠更全面的來就競爭人才的部分能夠來用一個專法來做處理好以上好謝謝賴瑞龍委員那我最後一個請謝一芬委員謝一芬委員詢問完之後我們就請國發會一併回答好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3649.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3671.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
主委,我們必須要說其實上一次在詢答的時候葛如君委員他是在AI部分就是非常專業的委員他也提到應該要放寬甚至連就是在學時候的這個公讀的部分是不是應該要放寬納入那當然我們考量到會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3672.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3672.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
三、繼續審查三、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3697.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3697.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
三、繼續審查三、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3712.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3713.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
邱志偉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3741.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3758.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
秋雲委員跟賴榮文委員版本加上羅美玲版本大致上是羅美玲委員加一個副學士最主要的跟現行法律不一樣就是我們甄列的學士、碩士的部分還有外國特定專業人士的部分加一個博士 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3759.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3787.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
那個﹐如果剛剛的現行法﹐如果暫照這個賴瑞榮跟邱若驹的版本通過之後﹐大概我們目標可以募集多少﹐這個﹐更多的專業人才﹐有沒有順序算過這個﹐這個可能請諸位再去﹐去評估一下﹐如果曾﹐曾烈的博士﹐外國特定專業人士曾烈博士﹐的兩年﹐收視增加一年﹐然後﹐外國專業人才增加了學士﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3788.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3789.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
來請國發會主委回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3794.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3817.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
關於人才的部分目前會留下來的大概在48.1%那我們希望透過這樣的方式能夠增加到七成留下來至於畢業生數我們從2021年訂這個法規範之後我們現在的每一年招生數是逐年在增加所以確實的數據應該是有機會填補我們未來的缺口 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3822.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3846.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
但是呢的確像委員講的因為這個競爭很激烈有些人他不見得會留下來甚至我們在臺灣的人也不見得會留在這裡因為各國都在搶人才所以我們一定要想辦法讓這些比較有競爭力的法案能夠盡量的過關然後讓我們可以吸引到專業人才因為這是針對專業人才那也包括AI人才、資安人才都需要所以我們需要把這個專業人才拉進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3847.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3869.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
目前來講,以目前缺人才的狀況來看,從企業的反應來看,目前我們人才還處於不夠的階段,還沒有到會跟本國勞工去搶的程度。目前統計數字來看,大概這樣的人才只佔了6%,也就是說每100個專業人才有94個是本國的,只有6個是非本國的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3870.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3897.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
所以我們還要在以現在的出生率的狀態其實要盡快去準備未來跟競爭跟全世界競爭瞬間的人才需求尤其在AI跟資安數位方面所以謝謝委員好謝謝來那個曾天才委員第二輪發言主委這個我還是請你要慎重好我們先看 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3898.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3928.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第四條什麼叫外國專業人才只得在我國從事專業工作之外國人專業工作那什麼是專業工作第四款有規定只下列工作就業服務法第一款只下列工作專業工作他有很多款 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3929.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3950.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
第一款,第四款的第一幕了。就業服務法第46條第一項第一款至第三款、第五款及第六款所定的工作。第二幕是就業服務法第48條第一項第一款及第三款所定工作。 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3951.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3974.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
第三目,依補習及進修教育法立案之短期補習班之專任外國語文教師或最專門之他什麼。這還有好幾專業工作有好幾目。這裡面就還要去看就業服務法的相關的這些到底是什麼。 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3977.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4003.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
本院委員羅美玲等16條條文修正草案第十四條的第一項,第一款是什麼?專門性或技術性之工作,它是很廣的你不要只想到AI還是什麼,某個特別的專業的特定我們台灣比較少有的這方面專業的比較少的,你不能只想到那個部分因為這個一開就全部開了 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4005.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4033.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
因為這裡面第四十六條的第一項的第一款就是專門性及或技術性工作它是很廣的然後呢第三款是什麼呢公立或經歷案之私立大專以上校院或外國僱民學校之教師老師很多大專校院的老師都可以一樣都適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4036.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4057.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
包括第五款、第六款還有四、八條、第一項、第一款及第三款所以教育不好所以你們也要去認真到底我們學我們很多大這個博士、學士、碩士找不到學校教的也有很多啊所以這個不是在整體的整體的去評估、去考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4066.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4094.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
這是很專業的而且很廣的所以這個部分我對今天這個各部會上次我看了那個報告就覺得怎麼會這樣我是30年公務員啊各部會怎麼樣應該去應用自己的怎麼不要影響到我們臺灣的就業各行各業都有了專門性工作太廣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4097.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4126.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我們很多博士一樣啊沒有學校可以教啊現在學校學校越來越少啦除非去修嘛去修這個專門性工作是什麼要把它限縮除非是這樣啊現在很多大學又要減少啦那博士又去哪裡怎麼辦呢大家必須要去整體的去衡量啊我真的是拜託大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4128.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4154.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
好 謝謝那政委員您是反對這個條文的修正嗎我是認為這種特別的一定要國發會在整體跟各部會整體的去評估我不盡然說一定要像你們的說法一定要行政院版本我不會這樣認為啦但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4156.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4157.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
五、繼續審查五、繼續審查五、繼續審查五、繼續審查五、繼續審查五、繼續審查五、 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4182.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4211.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
大家都有去做過這個討論所以今天會有一個建議修正的條文包括本席的案子羅美玲委員的案子賴瑞榮委員的提案大家都會有做一些文字上的調整那如果沒有大家都同意的話我們是不是這個其實是沒有啊沒有推來推去啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4214.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4238.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那你要看這一次的因為這個已經大家已經協商過了已經協調過了因為這個不會影響到國人的就業問題這個是外國的專業人才來台灣的的因為我們要延攬一些外國的專業人才所以這個跟國內的就業市場是兩兩回事我們只是提供一個更好的更優惠的環境讓更多人願意到台灣來或限收在那那那些地方嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4244.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4264.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
當面啊,大家沒有聽懂嗎?專民性工作很廣啊無論是從這個外國專業人才延攬及僱用法裡面所訂的條文然後再引用到的就業服務法46條、48條這個都很廣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4269.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4283.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
來那個政委員我因為這個是現行法令已經有了我們只是讓他的這個比如說副學士的取得的折抵的時間在放寬碩士博士的這個折抵時間在放寬我們不是寫立一個法所以這個在我們就業人才法裡頭其實已經就有我們只是把那個限縮讓他再放寬一點因為現在全世界都在追求這個各類的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4296.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4298.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那我們是不是休息五分鐘?謝委員你要不要跟鄭委員溝通一下好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4843.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4848.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
你今天保留的話沒有時間協商因為就到九月以後去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4907.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4920.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
不是啦,這個我再度跟委員說明一下,這一個條文跟原住民或者是跟國內的就業市場一點關係都沒有。一點關係都沒有。那 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4923.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4932.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
因為剛剛鄭天才委員他有說的部分包括教育部、勞動部還有國發會的部分那剛剛經過他們幾個單位的確認其實都不影響就我們的修法都不影響那我們是不是可以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4941.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4943.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
二、繼續審查本院委員羅美玲等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4961.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4975.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
他包括說教育部他現在擔心的是教育部在大學教授還有我們老師的任用部分會受到影響那勞動部會說勞工會受到影響然後呢國發會是什麼會受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4978.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4979.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
各位委員,這個條文討論的是居留時間的折抵 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
5000.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5027.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
不是工作權的折抵請大家看清楚條文我們現在談的是他居留時間的折抵我知道可是問題是他居留時間的折抵就鄭委員的說法還是可能會影響到就是會限縮到這個原住民學生或者相關權益的這樣子那這個部分原住民學生不需要申請我國居留因為原住民是我國的國民 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5028.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5046.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
這條條文基本上跟原住民無關啦但是會跟一般我們的這些台灣的人才台灣的這些就業機會有關係啦這條條文跟原住民無關啦我剛剛只是舉例子啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5053.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5055.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我還是再提醒大家一下因為原來就有現行條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5070.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5098.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
對於外國專業人才在台灣的居留時間包括包含他們過去在台灣求學的時間那我們現在只是把這個折抵的年限再放寬一些希望能夠讓更多的在台灣求學的曾經在台灣求學的這些專業的人才能夠留下來在台灣貢獻他們的所學不過就是這樣而已所以這個跟原住民沒有關係那這個也沒有影響到 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5099.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5124.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
響鐘響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5124.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5150.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
幾位委員的修正版本來通過好不好因為今天如果保留了之後我們未來沒有時間協商你還要再等到9月10月下一個會期開議之後那下個會期開議又要審預算那個協商的時間可能又會再往後壓縮我們是不是懇請各位委員能夠支持這樣的一個修正動議修正版本好不好還是要協商今天出委會沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5156.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5179.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我想委員我來自企業我舉幾個例子給個委員聽一下大概在4年前在五股有一家企業來找我找我的原因很簡單他們的訂單被越南搶走了那搶走的原因是什麼呢是英國的客戶在越南找到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5180.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5203.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
第二供應商,那這些供應商是早年在台灣被訓練出去的。那我們把他訓練了十年,他回到了越南,他們投入這個市場,搶走了我們這個客戶的訂單。搶走了多少呢?一家公司搶走了22億,影響了200個家庭。影響了200個家庭。當時很多的廠商都在講說,難道優秀的人我們為什麼不能把他留下來? |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5204.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5231.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
而送出去到別的國家跟我們競爭搶走我們台灣人民的飯碗我只是舉例給委員知道一下現在這個法令是針對一些優秀的人才已經有工作了在企業裡面工作的人然後這個企業如果覺得他是一個很優秀的人才希望他不要離開我們有一個方式讓他留下來而不是把他送到別的國家跟我們競爭我請委員多考慮一下這是在企業界我看到的心聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5232.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5260.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
好 謝謝劉主委這麼清楚的說明主委你講的那個部分我絕對支持重點是重點是現在的條文外國專業人才的定義不是限收在你剛才講的如果你剛才講的那個部分我絕對支持但是因為現在所謂的外國專業人才的定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5261.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5275.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
是很廣的是很廣所以竹偉你講的我絕對支持但是因為剛才我講的你現在要放寬因為放寬不是只針對你剛剛講的那個專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5277.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5277.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
三、繼續審查三、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5297.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5312.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我沒有意見但是相關的數據要提供然後呢本來是只有博士博士博士博士博士博士博士博士博士博士博士 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5321.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5347.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
不得合併折抵這個一樣所以有一些有放寬的部分那我們總是要了解放寬之後的影響是如何有沒有這樣的一個評估報告那現況的是怎麼樣那折抵的放寬形式之後我們台灣的大專校院的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5349.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5351.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
本院委員王定宇等16人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5362.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5364.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
委員我說明一下專業的定義是按照企業的需求來定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5380.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5402.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我也說明一下目前我們統計下來從民國111年到112年目前為止可以折抵一年的是501人可以折抵兩年的是197人這個數字是非常低的可是對企業而言能留下兩個人就是兩個人三個人就三個人但是整個國家就是這麼少阿如果放寬協事協會的話呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5405.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5409.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我再跟委員報告一個數字,我們評估到2030年我們需要40萬的人才,我們目前供給量是26萬多,我們差14萬多。 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5427.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5456.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
即使我們放寬,我們都不見得有補得上這14萬的人力缺口。這個請委員也幫考慮一下這個社會的需求。好來那個我是不是因為王定宇委員賴瑞榮委員有舉手先讓他們講完之後我們這條是不是就先保留我們先處理下一條等一下再回來好不好好也讓那個鄭委員也思考一下然後你們勞動部教育部可以看一下你們能不能把那個評估報告送上來好來那個王定宇委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5457.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5484.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
謝謝主席那個這年這年委員擔心的是影響衝擊到國內的就業市場但這些條文有幾個基本的定義第一個是現有這些工作就是這些外籍朋友在工作的所以他不會有新的衝擊就業市場第二個我們現在台灣面對的困境是培養成熟的技術勞工或者是優秀的專業白領人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5486.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5502.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我們有個限定年限到了他就走了我們得幫別的國家在培養技術勞工把一領人才這個對沒有一個國家會會這樣做第三個加上我們國內這樣子的缺工台灣在國際化國際人才快速的流通你不管是從 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5503.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5532.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
從AI到一般的精密機械的製造所以這一塊剛才我聽起來政經財委員其實是不反對這些計算方式但是這些計算方式跟人去占到那個工作其實是平行線的它是不會影響到的但是因為我們這個每慢每慢一次可能就影響很大像我待會那個21條之一那個是在台灣已經繳稅而且他已經工作甚至結婚十幾十年以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5533.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5541.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
結果他在台灣連基本的社會福利都不能享用他有繳稅他不能享用那我上次在這邊做提案說明報告那個法國人就在前天6月15號過世了 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5543.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5544.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
來,樂瑞隆委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5572.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5593.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這個條文主要也是在處理外國專業人才跟外國特定專業人才那事實上這個現行就要實施了而且他有國家也因為要確保所以他有相關的一些界定就認定某些我們需要的確實找不到的所以才引用這些進來甚至於他對國家整個整體的產業跟經濟有所幫助所以用這個因為他有可能因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5593.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5622.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
這些人才在台灣的禁用之後有可能讓更多外資來台灣投資或者是產業留在台灣而沒有外移出去所以他反而會創造出更多的就業機會甚至有可能是其他更中低階的就業機會反倒對我們國人的一些工作有可能帶到刺激的效果所以我是覺得當現在也只有幾百位聽起來只有幾百位的影響那我們的缺口這麼大的時候我認為適度的一些讓他們在居留的權限上面再多一點點的放寬讓這些人才更願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5623.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5625.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
本院委員王定宇等16人擬具:「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條之一條之一條之一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5651.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5657.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我認為這些通過對於整個立法院的形象都有正面的效果所以我是希望各位委員能夠大力支持好 謝謝 來陳廷飛委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5661.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5684.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我想我們今天如果說這個條文被這樣子沒有講清楚我覺得會被誤解我們就很清楚針對就是人才今天我們如何讓他有誘因然後能夠有一些條件來讓他願意來到台灣這是很重要這不影響到我們目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5685.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5685.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
本院委員王定宇等16人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5708.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5732.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
不過與不過,我覺得這個優先條件是要先把問題講清楚、釐清清楚。我們對的是國外人才的誘因。跟我們本國人才的任用還有他們的一個工作權是毫無關係的。我們不要被這樣的一個誤導。我覺得這個要講清楚、說明白。 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5732.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5761.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
所以我認為這個案子必須通過的原因是我們真的是落後人家太久了我剛剛講說其實這個應該是在第一時間我們政府發現問題就要提出來的可是我們延宕了那麼久才提出來這是事隔好多年之後又提出來的一個部分而且又是由委員提案等於是委員比你們更動機整個國際情勢所以這是晚了很久好幾年了所以不能再拖了 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5762.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5788.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那跟我們本國人才的任用是毫無關係不會影響到我們的工作權跟我們本國人才的被任用這個部分必須講清楚對謝謝委員這的確我們現在面臨問題而且最近有一家企業他因為找不到人決定把他的研發放到美國去那這對國家是一個很大的損失所以我還是希望政委員能多考慮一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5791.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5808.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我還是跟各位委員說明一下這個條文開宗明義就這一條第十四條開宗明義就講外國專業人才在我國從事專業工作所以指的是已經在我國工作的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5808.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5823.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那我們接下來要放寬的是這些人過去曾經在台灣就學在台灣求學他可能讀碩士、讀學士、讀博士那我們把他過去讀書的那一段時間那個期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5825.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5841.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
把他折抵他未來能夠在台灣申請永久居留的時間把他折抵進去所以第一個他不影響未來的就業市場這些人是本來已經現在在台灣就學第二個他在台灣他所受的專業訓練是在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5843.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5858.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
獲得的專業訓練,所以他是台灣訓練出來的專業人才,我們只是把他合併計算他在台灣求學的那個時間的年資,把他併進去他未來可以申請永久居留的年資折抵而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5859.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5876.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
所以這個也不影響國內的就業市場也不是另外開一個門你國外有讀大學有讀博士的人你來台灣就可以直接折底年資不是這樣是他在台灣就學的年資折底第三我們台灣訓練這麼多好的人才如果因為條件太過嚴苛讓這些人才回到或者是去到其他的國家的話這都是台灣的損失所以我是不是能夠懇請 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5890.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5911.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
正委員能夠支持這個提案修正好不好來來謝謝范委其實剛才正委員說的就是當然我們知道說這不是這只是說是說把他們降低他們留在台灣的門檻那當然到底跟就是所謂的我們也不能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5912.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5928.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
一、繼續審查二、繼續審查三、繼續審查四、繼續審查五、繼續審查六、繼續審查七、繼續審查八、繼續審查八、繼續審查九、繼續審查十一、繼續審查十一、繼續審查十一、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、繼續審查十二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5939.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5940.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
議員王定宇等16人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5961.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5961.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
議員王定宇 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5980.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5995.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
關於這一點我説明一下這個是這個對僱外生目前教育部所找的外籍生子從直接海外進來的但是我們指的是在這裏畢業的在這裏畢業的那這裏畢業的大部分目前的科系 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5996.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6012.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我知道那既然沒有在我是說雖然現在沒有在可是我們這次的修法通過以後未來如果有這樣子的一個開放那當然它就符合相關的這樣子的一個規範嘛那 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6014.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6039.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
所以可是這對於我們目前公司裡的大學的教師還有高中的外師以及雙語學校的學科教師等等的確我們目前國內的教師都有相關的就是找不到就是沒有辦法就是有職缺的情況下那未來會不會也變成另外一項衝擊我認為國發會必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6042.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6057.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
就是去考量那當然你以目前的資料顯示沒有相關性但是在我們今天修法以後就是同樣的同等的開放那會不會有相關的影響的時候我認為這一個的確是國發會必須要相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6062.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6084.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
委員跟委員再補充說明一下齁這個只是條件之一不是全部條件齁他還有一個評點制評點制他會有一個評點分數要70分以上齁那這個評點制的部分就可以做到委員講的去做適度的控制當然我們認為他發生的距離品不大因為他對於高中來講是只有外國語那這種這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6086.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6113.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
外國語跑到台灣來學英文系的我們自己認為應該是可以得到一定的控制那如果將來再做過評點的話他的評點分數如果不夠高他還是一樣沒有他只是這個只是縮短他的實現而已主委你這個齁我跟謝委員講一下啦如果擔心是外資我講真實的狀況我現在某一個學校要請一個外資我會請一個高中生來台灣讀完大學 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6114.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6115.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
．立法院議員王定宇等16人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6134.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6136.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我剛再度提醒大家這個條文的前提是這些人是在台灣就學的 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6153.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6179.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
不是他在國外飛來台灣然後就要折抵台灣的居留證這個是大前提就是他曾經在台灣留學在台灣讀書的把他留學的那個兩年三年的時間折抵他未來申請永久居留的資格就這樣你們大家再想一下所以這條我先保留我們先回到我們先到進到先下一條21條之一那21條之一的新修正條文現在有唸了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6184.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6208.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那個好像有楊瓊英委員的修正動議是不是好那先讓他們印一下那個條文剛剛已經已經有宣讀過了啦那我是不是有有沒有委員要先發表意見那個王定宇委員好謝謝主席因為我現在在另外一個委員會要主持會議我跟大家拜託這21條之一我在提案說明就說過這個是針對在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6212.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6233.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
內基居留超過十年以上他有工作有繳稅甚至於在台灣都已經有家庭可他不能適用我們相關的社會福利那我上次舉一個法國人娶了一個高雄的太太然後他太太在三年前因為癌症過世他被診斷出健動人症就他連復康巴士都不能申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6234.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6250.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
後來我們也謝謝我們相關部會那時候去找到法國有允許台灣人在法國使用他們的社會福利所以這一位Michael他最後也可以用互惠的方式來取得我們相關社會福利他拿到這個之後他就過世了 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6251.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6267.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
他還沒使用他在前天過世了那這一個條文其實是說當我們前面那一段在爭論的是我們在招攬這些優秀的國際人才通常都是屬於年輕壯年時期但是如果他在台灣貢獻他的青春把台灣當作他的家 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6268.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6269.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
一、繼續審查二、繼續審查三、繼續審查四、繼續審查五、繼續審查六、繼續審查七、 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6301.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6321.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
委員王定宇委員那因為現在有那個謝依鳳委員、楊全英委員有一個修正動議我們是不是請那個議事人員先宣讀一下請問大家桌上是不是都有收到拿到那個修正動議請宣讀委員謝依鳳等所提修正動議同委員邱益穎等所提修正動議宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6323.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6324.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6340.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6340.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
三、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6359.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6378.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
這個條文的部分就是說未來我們的方向還有它的一個限縮性是不是能夠實時幫助到我們這些需要幫助的而且也不會擴及到其他範圍擴大而影響到大家所擔心的這個所謂健保的一個問題或是一些醫療的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6383.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6384.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
議員王定宇等二、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6398.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6400.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
本院委員羅美玲等一、繼續審查本院委員王定宇等一、繼續審查本院委員王定宇等一、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6424.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6424.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我也謝謝這個提案的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6443.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6470.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我謝謝提案的委員那在這個修正動力裡頭像我們台中國會會主委在這邊我們台中的經營園區、科園區、工業區讓他覺得很多這樣子的人才回到了台灣然後他也學習到很多技術甚至有的他也已經跟原來的老闆合作再去開子公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6471.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6486.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
我想您來自產業最了解這個情勢所以在上一任王美花鋪長的時候我們也陪她一起到看到這些的問題尤其在精明園區裡頭有很多這樣的現象而且她已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6488.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6515.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
他也有生孩子的都在這邊了但是他取不到這樣子的一個資格所以我們就很歡喜那當然這個在21條裡頭的21條之一因為這全球大家都關心的也就是身心障礙的這個部分所以我們也特別在詳細把它這個細目寫清楚到時候再給主委你這邊在做的時候會更加的方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6516.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6534.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
那這個重點也就是在第一項資格而經過內政部這個很重要了內政部移民署撤銷或者是廢止其永久居留許可者終止適用身心障礙者權益保障在我們的第50條51條以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6537.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6555.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
因為現在這一塊很重要我本席現在念的長照服務法第八條之一第四項規定所提供的服務的權益但因為回復我國的國籍取得我國國籍或兼具我國國籍經撤銷或廢止 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6556.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6556.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
本院委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6571.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6593.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我經常說的我們在地方探求明末我們希望這個法通過之後是要執行者可以執行政府的公部門也可以去發揮執行這樣子才能夠達到雙成的效果要不然如果沒有嚴定清楚的時候到時候又有模糊的空間那隨時再陳請這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6597.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6613.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
這個三敗俱傷所以我們特別要把這個部分的來理清楚那內政部你平民點頭在你審定的時候也就是你要不要再說明一下國防會的內政部是這一個沒關係啦來一併說明清楚衛福部來那個長照司副司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6618.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6618.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
一、繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6636.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6636.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
本院委員王定宇等16人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6655.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6677.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
好來請問各位委員如果沒有意見的話我們第20新增的第21條之一的條文是不是依照本席跟楊瓊英委員的修正動議條文通過好不好楊委員好好如果沒有意見的話那因為文字上可能有一些調整我們是不是就授權議事人員去做文字的調整處理好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6680.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6697.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
第十四條,請問大家有沒有意見我們是不是照這個邱益穎委員、賴瑞榮委員、羅美玲委員三個委員的版本再修正通過?主委會在寫上了 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6706.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6732.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
第十四條保留請宣讀學生結論外國專業人才延攬及僱用法學生結論第十二條趙委員、邱志偉等人及委員賴瑞榮等人提案通過第十四條保留送院會處理增訂第21條之一修正通過參照今日邱委員及楊委員分別所提修正動議文字通過謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6734.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6756.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
宣讀完畢好請問各位同仁剛宣讀的寫上結論有沒有意義好沒有意義的話我們就通過討論事項所列外國專業人才延攬及僱用辦法僱用法部分條文修正草案並按審查文具擬具審查報告提報院會討論那因為我們還有條文要寫上我們就這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6759.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6768.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我們會再擇期再進行協商那已經通過的條文相關的法制用語授權主席及議事人員整理本日議程處理完畢謝謝大家散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6953.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6954.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
二、繼續審查本院委員 |