| IVOD_ID |
160133 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160133 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第7次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第7次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-11T15:18:05+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-11T15:34:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:12 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/612fb6649aede2350fc6e9da62388a9c4ee85e61fece82c2edcb3a0837540c3c3eb26cf665c94cb75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:18:05 - 15:34:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-11T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第7次會議（事由：一、覆議案之處理事項（4月11日上午）。二、行政院院長提出針對美國關稅政策因應作為專案報告並備質詢（4月11日下午）。三、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢（4月15日）。四、4月11日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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蔡議員請準備謝謝院長 麻煩有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
35.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
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黃偉豪院長好星期一院長召集朝野各黨團到行政院的時候我當面代表台灣民眾黨立法院黨團跟您表示過對台灣民眾黨而言我們一定把國家利益放在第一位謝謝因此當天您願意來立法院報告我們在禮拜二的時候馬上排了第一個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
60.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
88.995 |
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第二個當天行政院所交給我們的書面報告裡面提到產業創新條例希望趕快完成三讀台灣民眾黨在禮拜二的時候把他排成第二案但是我們希望當在野黨都有心我們要一起為國家艱難的時刻奮鬥的時候我希望民主進步黨作為一個執政黨禮拜二本來搶卷條例就可以完成二讀跟三讀了 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
89.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
114.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
杯葛了一天繼續空轉希望執政黨立院黨團的同仁大家也可以共同努力完成行政院期待的立法院長贊不贊成我希望大院的議事能夠順利的進行先排除一些大家爭議的如果能夠協商那一定很快能夠進入到正常的議事OK 我想禮拜二這個場景大家看了心裡都很痛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
115.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
136.341 |
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行政院要慘狀條例三讀我們也願意配合我相信坐在上面的院長禮拜二也很無奈但現在沒辦法了我們試試看下個禮拜五的時候把它完成二讀跟三讀我們一起來努力接下來有關於台美在進行有關於關稅談判的時候我相信是進入了省水區 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
137.621 |
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156.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
進入深水區的時候我們從一些基本的問題開始談起院長你認為川普總統要的是什麼他要的是零關稅還是零逆差我認為他是在追求貿易平衡排除不公平包括零逆差以及排除關稅貿易障礙 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
157.782 |
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181.493 |
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其實你剛剛講一句話,我不是很贊同你說的是川普總統在追求公平貿易這句話非常說的Diplomatic全世界都在追求但是我要說的是川普總統在爭取的是美國最高的利益從我們的角度上面來講,我必須要說他所提出來的對等關稅其實一點都不對等院長你贊不贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
182.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
207.492 |
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因為他的計算公式只有一個公式一個計算產生一個結果對所有的國家都這樣這就是一個相對性的不公平變成相對性的一致性對台灣來講夠不公平我們當然認為我們應該有更好的一個談判的結果你當初第一時間的時候就講了這個所謂的對等關稅有三大不公平行政院表達了行政院的立場我覺得非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
208.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
231.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
川普總統站在美國人的立場追求美國的利益我們國家的政府就應該站在台灣人的立場追求台灣人的利益你說了他的公視有非常大的問題我想最近這段時間當中非常多不僅僅是美國的學者甚至是台灣的學者跟評論員大家都提出了相對的批評跟觀察 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
232.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
253.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
甚至在美國貿易代表署裡面,他所提出來的計算公式裡面,被引用文獻的學者自己都跳出來了,說川普這個計算公式是錯的。基本上還要再處於4,這是他所引用的文獻的學者所講的。那現在的關鍵是什麼?現在的關鍵是我們要的是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
259.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
285.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們願意付出什麼我們手上還有什麼籌碼院長 接下來在進行跟美國談判的時候啊你覺得台灣要的是什麼我們在計劃跟美國的合作接續過去的台美經貿專業小組以及現在這幾天當中一個禮拜當中持續開會我們當然有列出一些想法策略及應對的一些內容我們願意付出什麼代價 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
286.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
309.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
付出什麼代價是因為國際貿易嘛有得有失嘛他希望對美國好一點我們的政府應該希望對台灣好一點嗎策略方面我大概不容易明講變明講但是我們可能付出就是我們必須在關稅對等的這個不是對等關稅喔是雙方面關稅對等的情況之下我們可能要做一些調適而且我們在排除非關稅障礙的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
311.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
337.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那個非關稅障礙等一下我再進一步請教我們就從你剛剛所講的關稅對等嘛剛剛你說關稅對等不是對等關稅嘛是互相之間的關稅對等互相之間的關稅對等我們來看一下我們的賴總統從林立立開始談嘛他在彭博的投訴講得很清楚啦我們願意在互惠的基礎上面把關稅調到零 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
340.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
353.528 |
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這個是他在彭博上面的投書我想我應該沒有誤會啊這樣的意思他說從零關稅談起這是一個談判的態度來來來我唸給你聽啊We are willing to further cut this rate to zero |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
354.349 |
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371.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們願意把關稅調降到零這個英文沒有那麼難理解啦在互惠的基礎之上現在我的問題就要來了所以我們接下來我們願意把關稅調降到零只要在互惠的基礎之上指的是說如果美國願意調降到零我們也願意調降到零嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
372.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
388.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這是一個基本的態度這是一個基本的態度但是要看對國內的產業的衝擊我們可能這個方面也要列為一個國內產業的衝擊就是我們的政府應該要站在人民的立場去思考的事情剛你講一件事情我基本上是同意是說對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
390.865 |
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412.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
台灣談判的策略我們一定尊重行政團隊但是現在直接把我們願意做的事情在媒體上面投書的其實是我們的總統他願意展現出一個態度我覺得不必然是壞事但是我今天只想要提醒院長一件非常重要的事情在國際貿易上 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
414.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
421.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們跟美國之間有得有失但是在國內哪些產業會因此而受益哪些產業會因此而受衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
425.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
446.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
在得失之間怎麼樣去平衡怎麼樣去分配這是一個非常重要的事情我為什麼說這是一個非常重要的事情來我進一步請教我們在追求跟美國之間的是什麼樣子的平等互惠是什麼樣的對等互惠是我們片面配合還是我們會爭取跟美國簽訂BTA |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
448.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
465.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
原則上是希望透過雙邊的關係來談到比方說FTA或者是美加莫的USMCA這樣的方式所以啦不管是FTA啦或者是你剛講的基本上就是台美之間的貿易協定嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
466.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
488.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
針對台美之間的貿易協定把所有的條件都寫在裡面嘛你們讓什麼 我們讓什麼你們希望我們改善什麼我們希望你們配合什麼我們在21世紀貿易倡議當中也是朝這個方向走但是21世紀貿易倡議有去在這一次美國總統片面的對台灣增加關稅這件事情有扮演什麼角色嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
489.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
507.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
沒有啊全體國人看到了就沒有啊我們的確簽了21世紀貿易倡議啊當初有這個倡議國人也很高興啊結果現在看到的是什麼簽了這個SO WHAT當美國總統片面的要對台灣增加關稅的時候我必須要跟院長強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
509.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
525.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我再說一次川普站在美國人的立場爭取美國人的利益我沒有話說啦雖然我覺得對台灣不公平對台灣不合理但是我們回到國內的時候國內的團結很重要但是我們也希望什麼我們的政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
526.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
542.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
一定要站在台灣人的立場爭取台灣最高的利益我相信院長跟我的看法是一模一樣的因此我下一個問題是我們現在到底是要片面配合美方的要求還是我們要爭取跟他簽BTA |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
543.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
557.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個態度 這個方向很重要具體的底牌是什麼具體的策略是什麼我們不會過問太多我們給行政部門充分的空間是不是以簽訂BTA來當作接下來要求的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
559.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
578.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
絕對不是一個片面的單方面的做某種程度的改變而已所以所謂談判一定是在某一個基礎上面是 所以是不是DTA當作我們爭取的目標您就說是就好了嘛這個問題有這麼難回答嗎這就是談判的一個策略我這樣講好了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
580.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
604.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我代表台灣民眾黨立法院黨團在國會裡面我大聲的大聲疾呼希望美國把我們當成真正的盟友我們是民主盟友我們的很多高科技的產品我們也希望跟美國那邊的產業產生互補的作用請把台灣當成盟友什麼叫做請把台灣當成盟友 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
605.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
622.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們要追求對等我們要追求互惠這個我都同意這兩個國家之間貿易談判的時候有得有失這個我也同意但是如果把我們當成盟友的話我們最後談成的條件是什麼我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
623.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
651.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我也希望我們的政府大力跟美國政府爭取戰友黨做你們最強的後盾做你們最強的後盾去爭取跟美國簽訂BPA如果現在我們已經在最優先的談判的行列國家當中這就是一個善意那兩情相悅的情況底下我覺得我們可以爭取最好的一個對台灣最有利的位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
652.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
677.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我只希望我們的政府去談的時候大聲幫台灣人說話爭取我們最好的條件剛剛有委員問到說我們願意把關稅在互惠的基礎上面砍到零包括農產品嗎農產品我們有WTO的相關的規定在包括稻米我想這個就是已經既有的規定你覺得現在川普政府的遊戲規則有遵守WTO的規範嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
680.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
700.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
至少我們願意這樣遵守用這個來做對等的基礎所以我們如果要對等的話就不是什麼他們不遵守我們要遵守嗎現在我在講的是基本的態度跟立場的問題因為中南部非常多的農漁民發出了聲音農業部部長在你旁邊我相信部長都聽到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
701.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
728.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
但是我一樣強調的一件事情農漁民的權益不可以被犧牲剛剛我在質詢的時候我問了一個其實是最關鍵的問題我們願意配合到什麼程度我們能夠爭取到什麼我們手上還有什麼籌碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
729.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
750.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個都是全體國人大家非常關心的事情因為他會牽涉到國內產業彼此之間橫貧的問題在這個過程當中院長你贊不贊成整個社會乃至於國會在整個經貿談判的過程當中都應該要能夠扮演一定的角色您贊不贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
753.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
766.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
國會當然有國會重要的角色就未來我們對產業的支持當然需要國會的支持我講的不是未來對產業的支持喔國家對外貿易的談判事前事中事後都應該要有社會跟國會的參與這個基本的立場院長贊不贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
771.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
798.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
事前我想剛剛委員也一再尊重行政院談判的策略所以我們能夠報告的我那一天基本上向大家說明一些那現在正在發展當中的隨著情勢我提醒一下喔 院長來看一下國家對外的貿易談判事前事中事後都會有國會參與是先進國家的立法例這個是當初小英總統講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
800.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
814.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這一次您所挑選的經貿談判的代表鄭麗君正副院長也是我之前很好的朋友她也說啦不是只有事後的監督委簽署之前的談判過程就要讓社會參與院長這個態度民進黨還支不支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
819.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
842.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以報告委員我那天嘗試就是做這樣的一個溝通讓大家知道我們已經在做什麼的努力我們準備啟動什麼樣的方式但是非超在我的部分我們極力的爭取當我們有進一步的進展需要讓國會進一步的了解支持的時候我們自然要向國會或向社會沒有關係啦因為我現在只剩下一分多鐘一分多鐘我要問最後一個關鍵的問題我只希望民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
844.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
872.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
不要忘了當初的理想讓公民社會參與讓國會參與這個都是當初民進黨喔從蔡英文總統就提出來的主張但我最關心的事情是我必須要老實講今天我看到你們所提出來的報告之前我跟部長要衝擊影響評估然後我發函去跟經濟部要中經院的評估報告經濟部不願意給說今天你會做報告所以我一直等 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
873.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
898.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我等到今天下午一點半拿到你們書面報告了以後我從頭到尾拜讀讀完了以後大概就是把經濟部那天回函給我的文字再貼上去我就簡單問一件事情是我們現在衝擊影響評估做好了吧現在在投影片上面有很多表格有三個情境一個是現在我們可能願意跟對方談的零關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
899.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
927.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
另外一個是川普在演了90天我們可能談到的其中一個deal是10%那最後一個是我們最不想要看到的事情是32%那不管是0%的關稅對國內的產業會有很大的衝擊喔10%的關稅也一樣但我今天從您的報告裡面對我關心的這些數字我上面什麼數字也沒有填我為什麼什麼數字也沒有填我找不到答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
929.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
938.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
都在這裡的資料裡面但是這牽扯到產業上一些尚不足以對外宣布的事情我們想以後等到一個事情更定案之後我們再來我再說一次啊 店長這些數字啊我剛剛說的都是全體活動的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
955.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
971.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我希望什麼時候行政院能夠負責任根據你的做法好 謝謝黃國昌委的質詢 謝謝主委長 |