| IVOD_ID |
16004 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16004 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-13T08:31:51+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-13T10:57:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:25:09 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685507799957011912f4eb3296cd325b2f419186e52af124432a2da7df6d47667af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查
(一)委員林德福等19人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員馬文君等25人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(四)委員涂權吉等17人擬具「就業服務法部分條文修正草案」案。
(五)委員黃建賓等20人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(六)委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。
(七)委員盧縣一等17人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(八)委員鄭正鈐等17人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(九)委員王育敏等17人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查
(一)委員張嘉郡等30人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員王鴻薇等22人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
三、繼續審查
(一)委員許宇甄等22人擬具「老人福利法增訂第二十二條之一條文草案」案。
(二)委員馬文君等16人擬具「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員張嘉郡等20人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
(四)國民黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
(五)委員黃健豪等17人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
(六)委員王育敏等19人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
(七)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。
【二(一)及(二)，如經復議，則不予審查；二(三)，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】
【本次會議逐條討論】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:51 - 10:57:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
133.154 |
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133.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1790.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1799.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好 出席委員已足法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年6月5日星期三93分至13時55分 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1807.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1826.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
6月6日星期四9時至12時36分地點群賢樓801會議室出席委員林月琴等15人列席委員羅明才等29人列席官員6月5日衛生福利部部長邱太元等相關人員6月6日環境部部長童啟明等相關人員主席黃兆吉委員秀芳 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1827.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1831.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
6月5日報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定邀請衛生福利部部長外交部就2024年我國參與世界衛生大會WHA之經過檢討與展望進行專題報告並被質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1842.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1859.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
本日會議由衛生福利部部長報告後委員林月琴等20人提出質詢均經衛生福利部部長及外交部常務次長陳立國及各相關主管等及其答覆委員陳冠廷所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報決定依報告及詢答完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1859.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1863.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
而委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二週內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從其所定通過臨時提案二項6月6日邀請環境部部長就廢棄物佔存量逐年攀升廢棄物處理政策短中長程規劃進行專題報告並備質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1880.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1907.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
本日會議由環境部部長報告後,委員盧憲一等18人提出質詢。軍經環境部部長、經濟部產業發展署署長、聯警張繼各相關主管等即席答覆。委員王育敏、楊耀、鍾家斌及圖全及所提書面質詢,列入紀錄刊登公報。決定一,報告及詢答完畢。二,委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者。請相關機關於二周內書面答覆。委員令要求期限者從其鎖定。通過臨時提案一項。宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1911.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1940.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
好請問委員會上次議事錄有錯誤或遺漏之處沒有議事錄確定本日會議議程為繼續審查就業服務法部分條文修正草案等九案以及審查委員張家俊等30人委員王宏威等22人委員鄭天才等16人分別擬具就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案等三案二繼續審查老人福利法條文修正草案等七案 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1941.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1969.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那首先我們先介紹第一場就業服務法出席的官員還有委員我們介紹委員陳昭芝委員盧憲一委員鄭天才委員陳金輝委員張家俊委員王振旭委員林月琴委員黃秀芳委員那我們介紹出席的官員勞動部何佩珊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1971.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1998.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
勞動力發展署蔡孟良署長勞動法務司副會職司長衛生福利部長期照顧司祝建方司長護理及健康照護司蔡妍妍副司長社會及家庭署游宜君組長國民健康署謝佩君檢任記者援助民主委員會社會福利處 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1999.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2020.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
董慶芬副處長好那今天有再次交付的提案要進行提案說明不吝作詢答現在新增提案委員說明提案要指每位委員兩分鐘我們請張家俊委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2031.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2059.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席各位委員二零二五年也就是明年臺灣就會正式進入超高齡社會隨著我們的福勞比上升對於營法族的照護需求會越來越大本席就所提的就業服務法第四十六條修正草案做說明主要就是要讓八十歲以上的長者能夠不用再申請巴士量表就得以聘用外籍看護移工依現行法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2060.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2083.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
要求要申請家庭看護工需提供巴氏量表的評估結果那去年選前衛福部宣布放寬政策包括一使用長照持續六個月以上二經醫師評估失智症輕度以上三擴大特定身心障礙免評對象以上這三項都可以經醫療機構評估失能情況不需要巴氏量表 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2087.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2097.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
但是呢即便如此呢稍微放寬了這些門檻很多突發案例還是緩不及急如果85歲老人家突然跌倒骨折要開刀還要申請外籍看護需要醫院就醫三個月以上還要經門診醫師開立證明對於高齡長者突發狀況多 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2111.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2132.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
對醫療的依賴也比較高。如果是在短時間內發生的意外請問如何有持續就醫的記錄?如何有使用長照半年以上的記錄?因此衛福部去年開放的這些限制沒有考量到這些突發狀況。因此我提出就業服務本席提出就業服務法 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2132.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2156.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第四十六條草案修正增列放寬條件讓80歲以上的長者有看護需求者得以免除巴氏量表尤其在少子化的今天放寬這樣的規定可以減輕輕壯家屬的負擔不要讓突發的照護需求變成壓倒家屬的最後一根稻草請各位委員予以支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2159.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2182.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
謝謝張家俊委員的說明。現在我們請鄭天才委員說明。主席、各位委員、我們勞動部長及所有的官員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2183.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2210.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
嚴柱民族的失業率還有就業率跟非嚴柱民仍然有很大的落差所以在這個切工切料的一個年代對於這個外籍勞工的禁用固然有他的一個需要但是怎麼樣去兼顧嚴柱民的就業的機會所以我特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2211.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2233.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
在第46條的增加一項規定對於營造業僱主要禁用外籍勞工我們歡迎他們禁用但是也必須考量到原住民就業的機會所以特別增訂這樣的條文另外就是針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2236.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2258.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第四十六條有關家庭幫傭及康復工作外籍勞工要禁用擔任家庭康復工如果被康復者具有原住民身份的時候他的評估以及認定的方式應該由 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2259.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2264.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2275.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2292.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
案,支持以及有關我們剛才章家俊委員等很多位的委員上次這個召委在這邊安排的時候有不同的意見,希望能夠今天能夠有一個突破。謝謝大家,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2293.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2312.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好謝謝鄭天才委員的說明有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入記錄刊登公報現在請宣讀本次新增提案條文內容就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案委員張家俊等30人提案委員王宏威等22人提案委員鄭天才等16人提案條文對照表 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2313.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2329.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
委員張家俊等30人提案與委員林德福等19人提案同委員王宏威等22人提案修正第三項如下顧主一前項審查標準聘僱外國人從事家庭看護工作被看護者凡年齡滿80歲以上者得免經醫療機構專業評估現行第三項一列為第四項予以現行法同委員鄭天才等16人提案第二項增列後段 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2338.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2352.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
但前項第九款之家庭看護工其被看護者具有原住民身份時其評估與認定方式應由衛生福利部會商原住民族委員會定之修正第三項如下顧主依前項審查標準聘僱外國人從事家庭看護工作若被看護者年滿80歲以上或為年滿70歲以上之原住民免經醫療機構專業評估現行第三項宜為第四項 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2364.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2393.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
增訂第五項如下營造業部主依第一項第十款規定聘僱外國人與取得招募許可後,每禁用援助民意人或向援助民族綜合發展基金繳納貸金者,得申請引進外國人二人與與現行法同。宣讀完畢好那我們現在進行就業服務法部分條文修正草案計12案之審查現在請委員表示意見要發言的委員每位三分鐘請到台前發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2398.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2402.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
委員都沒有意見。好,那,好來,楊耀委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2414.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2438.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
謝謝主席我想放寬放寬長者的特別長者的申請家庭看護工對於長者的照顧也好對於有需求的家庭也好這是一項福音我想大概沒有人反對不過我還是要請教一下勞動部請部長一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2446.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2474.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
就是說因為我們放寬了規定以後呢需求者會大增那在立法的時候我們當然立一個法就是要讓它再可以執行我對於這一次的修法最主要的最大的顧慮就是會不會有排擠效益就是說因為現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2474.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2478.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
現在我們有評鑑標準,所以大概需求度都很強。放寬了以後,你們有關勞動力的引進跟增加有沒有配套? |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2498.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2525.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
是跟委員報告主要是那個放寬以後那個需求一下子會驟然大增那個數目大概高達53萬左右那是一個潛在的人口那麼現在全球缺工是全球搶工的現象所以這個未必能有效來及時滿足這麼龐大的需求所以真的是很有可能會造成重度失能者會被排擠 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2526.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2553.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
會變成挑照顧的這樣的一個逆選擇的現象發生對而且跟委員會報告一下就是說我們現在申請呢是依照申請的前後先後順序來做核定所以會不會我們修法過了以後反而造成因為剛剛部長的答覆就是其實看護工的缺口是很大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2554.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2568.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那假如說這麼大的缺口會不會反而我們立法的美意沒有辦法落實給我們這次修法增加出來可以申請的人反而造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2570.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2591.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
更應該受到照顧的家庭找不到看護高。是,對,是委員這個很重視的就是問題的所在啦齁。那麼因為我們現在也針對這種健康跟亞健康的長者的照顧需求,我們也要發展一個外展的服務。就是我們未來會在很快的下半年會再挑幾個縣市來合辦喔。然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2595.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2602.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2622.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2647.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那跟現在的長照是不是相類似的?因為他就不是單一家庭負擔一對多的那就是類似目前的跟現在的長照制度有點像對可是長照是本國人長照服務體系這個是獨立於長照體系之外的是自費的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2650.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2656.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
對我我我不過我還是必須要求勞動部齁就是說就是說欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2659.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2687.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
台灣的高齡化這麼明顯還是必須要盡可能的去找到家庭看護控的來源因為一定是有需求才會有這麼多的委員版本要求要而且其實巴士量表確實是造成很多家庭的一個困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2689.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2704.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
特別像在離島偏鄉、原住民地區有的時候要一個長者重複的去醫院做評鑑確實對於家庭來講是一個很大的負擔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2705.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2719.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這一點跟委員報告我們未來準備放寬偏遠地區可以不必去醫院平了這樣子對就是整體的配套我覺得是這樣子就是說行政部門呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2720.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2745.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
其實委員的任何版本我相信都是有民意需求才會提出那為什麼會民意需求都是走在前面我們行政部門的配套總是落後了幾拍這個可能行政部門還是要做一下加強好不好好謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2746.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2748.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案。 »: |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2763.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2789.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
主席各位同仁今天我們這個八十兩表的審查這個服務法我是一個臨床的心臟外科醫師長久以來我們臨床醫師最大的困擾就是八十兩表八十兩表營化組或者是失能者要申請看護必須要開立八十兩表但是過去要成功開立 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2790.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2798.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
就是男帳家,因為婚宿打得很緊甚至有家屬跟醫師為此發生衝突我幾乎每個禮拜都在處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2806.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2828.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
要為家裡的長輩申請看護工必須要到醫院開巴士量表先前有醫師因為不開遭受家屬的攻擊這個當然是少數可見今天所有提案的委員他們真的是有壓力也需要所以以前開例難度那麼高但是很多案例顯示 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2830.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2851.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
對民眾來講,非常辛苦的就是,戰備已經臥床了,容易跌倒了,也不能動了,必須還要把整個人用推的,叫到這裡來,因為他先不看到反正他也不敢給你開啦,因為冒名頂替的也有,醫師因此而被送法辦的也有,所以這個是對所有的臨床醫師來講是夢魘。我相信王振旭委員你應該也有感受到啦,陳新威應該也有感受到啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2861.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2882.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
當時總統大選的時候侯友宜是我跟他提的我建議的因為我是醫療後援總會長不好意思他還沒有選上要不然的話這個早就實施了照顧長輩的證件80歲以上申請外籍移工不需要載82票 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2885.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2900.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
當時民進黨賴清德候選人發現這個政見大受百姓歡迎總統大選期間三個候選人都有共識要放寬民眾黨柯文哲也是一樣當時的薛瑞忍部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2902.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2924.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
馬上從善如流立刻由行政院長陳建仁宣布直接採納進行執行效率之高速度之快真是前所未見所以呢表示說這個是非常重要而且迫切齁要拿八十兩表申請刊錄如果不能完成會影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2925.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2949.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
事務具大而且現在年輕人大家都是都要上班雙薪等等齁等老人家平均壽命又長像我們屏東我們老人已經佔了20%65歲以上這是非常非常的重要所以這次的修法對民眾是迫切的那我是我建議討論之後就進行表決了送書委員會以上好謝謝接下來我們請林月琴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2965.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2991.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
議員,可以麻煩一下部長嗎?部長,目前整體來看,如果移工的來源充足的話當然,就是源源不絕的人力的話,當然對於高齡者、重病者開放就不需要設任何限制可是實際上你也知道,現在只有76萬的移工,然後社福類23萬,可是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2992.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3007.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
當中有需要的人才是最主要要被照顧的。可80歲以上的高齡者不經巴士量表去直接可以評估,然後這表示80歲以上就全面可以開放評估。如果剛剛提案是這樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3009.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3034.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
的確有我剛剛提到有需要的我們都非常非常地贊成因為我們現在怕的是排擠的效益所以想問部長的是因為去年10月13號你在實施三類的對象適用多元免評估這個資格包括第一類使用長照服務居家日間家庭照顧服務連續6個月以上還有第二個是輕度失智的鬆綁 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3036.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3058.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那第三個事實上是擴大增加重度呼吸障礙跟中度推進困難中度特定身心障礙的這等14項。想問你去年10月13號之後這樣開放之後到底有哪些會變成80歲以上可能沒辦法納入的? |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3059.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3071.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
就是跟我們報告現在自從我們實施以後80歲以上使用巴士量表的這樣子的一個數據大概已經是三只佔三就是只佔三成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3072.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3072.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3090.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3109.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
所以在這邊真的要去提醒的是因為我們的很多需要照顧的像重度的患者那因為移工如果量少的時候就有所謂的排擠效應那就會變成是重度需求的家庭他用不到為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3110.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3110.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
議員林德福 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3132.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3132.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
黃秀芳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3159.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3181.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
謝謝主席我們上一次在委員會也有特別討論過就是我們擔心的是如果這個一旦是80歲以上那免這個巴士量表那會不會造成中正的這個民眾有需要的這個家庭反而是受到排擠那我想講的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3182.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3182.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
案。 »: |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3197.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3198.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
案。 bicycliffe |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3216.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3217.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3243.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3245.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
議員林德福等19人擬具 «就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件事項》 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3260.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3277.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
是否程序可以更簡化?或醫師可以直接倒載?這是一個更簡化的方式,更簡便的方式,讓這些需要被照顧的人,需要請外籍看護工的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3277.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3278.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
案。 »:接下來請林淑芬委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3313.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3332.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
主席各位委員今天這個委員會審查這個法案的修法已經是第三次討論了我想說的話該講的我們都講了不過在這裡還是今天大家都要出委員會的時候有幾點我在這裡再提醒大家一次第一個大家都說了大家都知道沒有源源 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3333.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3345.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
不覺得外籍康護現在整個康護人力市場是供給小於需求而且是供給遠遠小於需求如果學過經濟學的人都知道供給小於需求是什麼樣的狀況但我們今天的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3348.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3351.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件事項議員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3370.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3384.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
一、後遺症未來中風嚴重失能的家庭會找重症的病患找不到這個看護工因為大家要去看護健康的老人和也健康的老人 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3385.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3385.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3408.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3411.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
當他的人都要想看看這後遺症誰要負責第二個後遺症市場的法則供給遠遠小於需求薪資價格一定大幅上漲現在有錢還可以聘僱外籍看護的中產階級他們未來薪資外籍看護薪資大幅上漲的時候他的家庭負擔會大幅加劇加重 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3434.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3438.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
這個是雪上加霜所以大家在這種狀況裡面第二個這個後遺症當外籍看護工他現在的薪資遠遠落後於工廠的、廠工的但是如果你這樣子此門門戶一開 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3449.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3469.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
公極勞動力不足然後有錢的80歲我就請外籍看護有錢的人買得起你中產階級也買得起但是你會很難過很糟糕你的這個負擔會加重第三個後遺症它會瓦解我們的長照系統我們的長照系統說得比較難聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3473.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3498.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
有錢的人買一對一的外籍看護沒有錢的人只能使用長照系統可是我們知道今年我們的長照預算800多億可是我們知道整個長照不管是日照、外展服務包括所有的共餐等等800多億都還做不到那麼覆蓋率服務的覆蓋率還是很低我們也都有一個願景 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3499.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3506.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我們的願景是要從現在以福利為概念從偏念預算的800多億的長照系統要過度一定要進入真正的長照保險可是如果我們大量的使用一對一的服務誰還會支持這個長照保險每個人要繳長照保險給那個經濟弱勢的人使用我告訴你有錢可以買一對一的人他就不想參加了 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3526.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3530.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
所以這種狀況裡面我們就放任這一些經濟弱勢的人的長照制度瓦解掉嗎所以今天在這裡我要跟大家講今天你就是這樣子一意孤行的要讓他過必須考量到這三個問題第四個我們還是要為有需要的人解決問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3546.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3572.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這是很重要的每個提案的委員都是本於這個初衷和初心那麼我再一次的拜託大家我們就好好的就事論事我們就有需要哪些人還要再更寬鬆不要巴士量表好好的對待這一些失能的人讓我們再開放更多政府再把這些有需要的人接起來行政更簡化這樣子來討論不是很務實嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3576.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3595.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
所以今天的修法我們為什麼要便宜行事啊八十歲總開放就好啊有的人沒八十歲也有需要捏我們我也講過啊單身未婚沒有家屬可是他沒有八十歲他嚴重失他可能也是輕度失能或是過度時期的失能對不對那要怎麼處理所以我們是不是能務實的來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3600.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3611.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
政府、我們法律在把有需要的人接起來,這樣就改過問題就好了,不要再去再做問題啊。今天你用80個一人下去,不是改過問題,是再做問題啦。知事提倡再一次的提醒。接下來請王振旭委員發言。那剛剛這邊有一個提案,幾位委員提案,就是停止討論經負表決。所以王委員,這個發言完之後我們就來處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3634.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3650.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
謝謝主席各位委員我想針對於我們台灣的長者應該接受什麼樣比較完整的照顧大家其實都非常用心那我自己本身以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3651.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3668.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
都在醫院裡面工作尤其是癌症病人的確在突發的狀況之下真的他很希望在短時間裡面有很快速的得到相關的幫忙尤其是申請外籍勞工來協助家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3669.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3692.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
另外有一些針對於在雙就業的家庭當長者年紀大的時候很擔心他在家裡沒有人陪伴出現突發狀況的時候應該怎麼處理會比較讓他繼續工作造成這個就業上的問題同時也能夠讓這個長者有好的陪伴 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3693.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3722.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那可不可以請教一下部長目前我們針對這個雙就業然後有長者在家庭裡面萬一他擔心意外啦或者是有突發狀況沒有人陪伴的時候造成他就業上的這種心理壓力或者是擔心那目前我們在部裡面有安排哪一些的方案來協助這樣的家庭來幫助這個長者可以不用擔心很多人他很喜歡的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3725.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3738.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
事實上晚上他們已經回家了,他們就可以持續陪伴長者,那這方面我們有什麼樣的方案可以來協助嗎?對,其實委員您指的就是健康、雅健康的這種在家裡有跌倒的可能性的。我想我們現在的體制裡面衛福部有長照2.0,這個部分本來照服務員他在家裡,他也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3747.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3775.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
幾乎是白天到家服務的這樣也居多那勞動部這邊未來我們就是希望能夠移工也能進入這一塊那麼是自費市場就是我剛才在強調的請這個NGO團體跟仲介合作那麼仲介聘移工然後這個統一派案到家裡去然後陪伴這種健康或亞健康的長者這樣子那他不是一個全天候的24小時的那樣子的的全日工的看護這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3776.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3791.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
對,他會比較有彈性所以他會解決部分的需求對對對對是我們希望能夠這樣能夠補充啦補充長照2.0不足的部分這樣子是因為如果說80歲以上就真的要能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3792.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3816.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
可以免任何的條件之下得到相關的服務內容當然如果我們真的非常仁義、充裕的同仁而不又去影響到我們本地勞工的權益的話當然這個是一種也許是值得考量不過我想剛剛的委員都已經講得非常的清楚如果需要考量各個方面而且是要考量到真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3817.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3837.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
作好這方面需求的話我想我們真的是需要非常非常慎重的來考量因為一旦通過這樣的修正的話對於台灣的衝擊可能不是我們現在因為調整以後就真的解決問題就好像林書偉所提到的我們是真的在製造另外一個問題的開始謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3847.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3852.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
行,好,劉委員,我剛已經有宣告,但劉委員要再發言,就三分鐘我們就停止討論,來。謝謝主席,各位同仁,我想這件事情基本上也已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3869.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3885.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
很慎重的來做這個討論我還是繼續林署委員剛剛跟各位特別提醒的這個相關面向的事情我們大家都朝向要讓更多的需求者可以得到這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3886.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3912.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
一對一的照顧。這個本意都沒有問題的。但是實際上供給跟需求面實在是落差非常非常大。我們只有單純從80歲以上的就已經沒有辦法去做供給了。那我還是跟各位我們好像在上課我們再複習一下。我是針對80歲以上的亞健康還有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3914.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3920.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
衛生能健康者已經佔了53萬人,80歲以上人口總數是91萬,衛生能健康者佔了53萬人,需要長期照顧者是佔41.7,就是38萬人。這38萬對照這個53萬, |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3940.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3964.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
會產生什麼樣的一個排擠作用各位先思考一下這第一點齁第二點再給各位複習這一張齁這一張也是那一天我是最早希望衛福勞動部把還有衛福部把這個資料提供給大家做參考的齁這個是呃失智症CDRI對不起CDR一分以上啦齁就24萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3967.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3991.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
700多那目前有聘外籍看護工的人數就8萬7千多就已經8萬7千多然後再來就是特定身心障礙項目總共1到14項細節我就不再多談他現在需求人數是7萬5千多目前有聘到外籍看護工的是2萬5千多2萬5千多 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3994.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4001.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
所以用這樣的數據加上80歲以上的需求者其實坦白講已經超過了將近50多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4005.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4030.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
已經超過50多萬所以今天我們的原意我一直感謝昭偉今天可以排這個事情讓大家可以有這個充分討論的這樣的一個空間但是我們是要做正確的事情嘛做對的事情那基本上有時候我們是遇到一個現實的狀況那這個現實的狀況沒有辦法去突破的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4031.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4047.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那可能我們就回到處理緊急需要被照顧對象的現在的這個現狀才是真正解決之道有些事情真的是出發點是對但是他必須循序漸進如果出發點是對要急救張的 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4048.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4066.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
案。netesle等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案。netesle等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案。netesle等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案。netesle等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案。netesle等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4069.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4097.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
並顧外籍家庭康復工的失等程度亦比照85歲以上的長者預換寬。其實這個部分就是有一個論據的啊這個論據也是80歲以上但是他沒有他不會一次就就就就要面對幾十萬的這個這個這個可能會提出的這個需求者的這樣的一個風暴所以所以請各位真的可以去思考那我覺得這個這個修正都會各位如果覺得OK |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4098.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4106.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
不分草也,我們大家都可以共同來提案。我們共同面對這個事情,處理這個事情。以上誠懇建立,謝謝大家。 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4118.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4119 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4139.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4139.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
事實上去年10月放寬之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4159.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4177.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
案,只剩下三成,不是五十幾萬人,對嗎?我剛剛應該沒有聽錯吧?就是只剩下三成的人,八十歲以上的人,他自從去年放寬之後,他目前是沒有的,如果有需要看護是沒有看護可以提供來,如果經過八十歲,所以事實上不是五十幾萬人,是十幾萬人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4180.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4196.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那部長要說明嗎?再來就是說就以80歲如果大家覺得衝擊很大的那你的優先次序你有什麼方案準備好了沒有?如果今天把大家的需求直接否決掉那這樣我們也是有很多的疑問我先跟您報告第一個所謂三成是指 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4202.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4226.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
用巴氏量表申請,現在只佔80歲以上申請者的三成而已了。我們放寬多元認定以後,因為其他你還可以用長照服務六個月,或者是輕度失智症,或是特定身心障礙項目去申請,這些都佔七成了。現在80歲以上的申請,我的意思是說巴氏量表已經被稀釋到只剩三成的申請功能了啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4226.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4231.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
但是現在我們放寬以後也是只有這麼三成的人會是增加的部分? |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4231.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4248.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
不可是現在放寬以後是沒有私能的人也會有需求產生會有沒有私能的那種健康跟亞健康的長者他會想要請移工來陪伴我當然在確定這個數但是會有53萬的缺口那如果勞動部覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4250.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4252.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4266.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4266.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
案。 »: |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4284.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4284.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們請陳金輝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4313.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4334.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
各位委員同事各位官員大家好剛有幾個論點我也想提出來請大家一起來反思一下為什麼當初率先提出來的總統候選人後來紛紛有人跟進表示這個需求不會因為你限制資格而不存在而這個需求是上升的 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4335.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4356.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
表示這個需求不會因為各位現在限縮他的資格而不存在我想這是大家都有一致的共識剛一開始的提案委員說明的非常好現在的三民製家庭很多啊現在終身帶的人肩膀非常的沉重因為往下也很累往上也非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4357.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4376.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
大家也不用去懷疑說80歲以上亞健康健康的人一定會去做這樣子的申請這樣也對我們80歲以上的長者有這樣歧視的感覺另外也提到說移工有可能會挑選雇主請問是不是也有新聞在報導說居服員等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4379.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4400.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
桑照也一樣遇到同樣的問題呢而我是非常誠懇的希望勞動部部長不管是開發移工或者是在我們國內多騙尋一點多元可照顧的人才這些都是可以大大的舒緩我們這些三明治家族的壓力畢竟呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4401.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4424.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
剛有提到說其實勞動部部長也非常非常的重視我們現在的女性是否可以重返職場這個也是您很重要的一個KPI那最後我也很想分享我們臨床的經驗我們很多第一線的醫護人員看到巴士、糧表就皮皮挫因為曾經有同儕因為這樣吃上刑罰那你要一個醫生去判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4430.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4445.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
判斷他是不是假裝的,把很多的壓力都轉介在醫師的身上。還有巴士樑表開不出來,第一線的醫護人員被打,有這樣子的醫療糾紛,然後有這樣子的刑責,導致有些人到醫院他要先到一樓的櫃檯去問說:「請問啊, |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4448.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4464.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
現在這個所有你們醫院的醫生到底還有哪一位是比較願意去做八字兩表的開立這樣子的服務這都是我們第一線的臨床醫生只要看到這四個字就很敏感就很害怕所以呢我是認為啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4466.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4488.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
這個議題已經討論了非常非常的久了我是希望說這個照顧的人力多元的開發並且釋放三民製家庭非常沉重的壓力是目前我們臺灣面臨少子化還有高齡化首要的目標那三黨的總統候選人都有這樣子的認同的話我希望大家可以深思一下 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4490.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4494.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
好謝謝陳金輝委員那我們現在休息三分鐘就回來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4684.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4701.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
好 那請大家回座 做以下決議除委員圖全吉及呂玉玲提案令則其繼續審查外就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案計時案審查完均 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4701.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4716.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
條文及附帶決議均保留並按擬具審查報告提報院會討論。院會討論本案時,由王昭吉委員譽名補充說明。是不是要交由黨團協商?好,交由黨團協商。那請問各位委員有沒有意見?沒有意見那就通過。好,謝謝大家。那我們第一案的審查已經結束。那針對那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4732.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4755.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
與第三案老人福利法無關人員可先行離席那請通知那個衛福部部長我們10點繼續審查老人福利法10點給部長一點時間上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4762.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4762.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5454.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5480.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
好 那我們繼續開會那我們先介紹有關於審查老人福利法出席的官員衛生福利部邱太元部長社會保險司劉玉娟司長法規會陳信成參事社家署簡惠娟署長中央健保署李承華副署長內政部移民署曹固齡副組長國家公園署張順發組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5483.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5508.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
農業部林業及自然保育署莊哲偉科長生物多樣性研究所研究員兼組長林旭鴻組長交通部公共運輸及監理司王基周檢任記政觀光署蔡宗昇副組長經濟部國營事業管理司黃旭輝專門委員水利署米亞儒科長 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5510.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5536.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
國軍退廚藝官兵輔導委員會事業管理處楊溫惠檢任繼政文化部綜合規劃司李世民專門委員行政院主計總處公務預算處廖玉琳專門委員教育部中生教育司紀賢揚專門委員好那我們現在進行老人福利法條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5537.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5541.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
案。繼期案之審查請委員表示意見。每位委員3分鐘。來請陳昭之委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5550.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5578.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
大家好 有關民眾黨黨團提出來這個老人福利法補助這個綜合所得稅為打百分之二十的這個稅率的這個保險這個健保費補助問題那有執政黨說這個是藍白合作推出的錢坑法案這個是一個不實的這個訊息第一個事實上在去年大選期間柯主席他就率先提出這個政策但是他是基於在臺北市市政府說他已經在執行這樣政策而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5579.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5594.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
判決應該要一致推動到全國這個每一個地方就要做一個全國的基礎來做後來有其他黨的這個候選人也提出相互呼應的一個這個做法那健保署現在算出來的這個金額完全是用健保署從口袋前拿出來做補助為基礎這個是有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5597.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5606.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
現行有很多地方政府已經有補助這個未達百分之二十或百分之五長者的健保費這些錢事實上也是來自中央政府的統籌分配款或是專案的這個補助經費花的是同一筆錢只是說你這個編列這個預算機關是放在中央或地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5616.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5638.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
就是可以透過政府的財政收支規劃去處理的所以衛福部沒有告訴大家這個事實而說錢坑法案這個是不正確的第二個就是說目前的補助政策執政黨的縣市也是在做的包括高雄、台南但我手邊我就不一談其實六都都已經在做了那無論是百分之未達百分之五、百分之二十所以我希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5639.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5653.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
判斷多少是可以好好來討論的,但是不能夠說居住在台灣的國人,因為你住在不同的直轄市或縣市而有差別待遇,這是完全違法這個憲法的平等原則。以上報告,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5666.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5682.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
主席還有各位委員各位官員大家好我想今天在審查的現場我必須要說外界有人刻意在危言聳聽說健保費的補助會動之到健保的總額讓健保的點值資源變少影響我國的醫療品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5683.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5712.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我想這個部分呢衛福部明明是可以澄清喔但卻沒有澄清讓這樣的假消息在打擊我們提出老人福利修法的國民黨跟民眾黨如果補助年滿65歲以上的國人會動之到健保的總額讓健保的點值資源變少影響我國醫療的品質的話我想我可以列舉出已經在做對65歲以上國人的法定補助措施通通都在健保法第27條裡面那當然我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5713.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5737.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
衛福部及社會社家署在5月30日晚間發布的新聞稿刻意其實就是要挑起行政跟立法的對立跟仇視社家署的新聞稿說以補助綜合所得稅合定稅率為達20%的老人人數的全額健保費為例推估113年大概需要359億元但是就算是不針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5738.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5755.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
案 中和所得稅和定稅率未達百分之二十的老人人數來補助經費。這些359億的費用裡所給予的對象已經很多都已經適用目前的這個補助的條件。也就是說這並不是一個零和359億的零和選擇。那我想這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5759.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5780.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
社家屬特別灌上最多金額來這個試圖黑化所以希望能夠是不是待會能夠告訴我們健保法第27條中各類給予65歲以上對象的補助費用已經有多少了未來還要增加多少我想這樣子的話才能夠真正的還原事實的真相讓我們希望為這個65歲以上的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5783.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5806.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
老人能夠在全國各地都一個平權的概念讓他們不管在何地都可以享受到一樣的福利而不是因為身在不同地方而就不同的這個福利財源好的地方那這個六十五歲的老人就可以補助健保費可是財源不好的縣市他就沒有辦法這不符合這個全國平權的概念以上謝謝好來我們請楊耀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5822.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5845.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
好,我們今天是不是部長上次審查的時候沒有到嗎?部長要不要上來說明一下剛剛徐理政委員提到的就是這一次如果放寬65歲以上的老人免健保費的話事實上65歲以上的老人原來你們已經給付多少然後要增加多少而不是把所有的總數都算在一起講一下那個數字我們請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5852.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5871.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那個剛剛習委員講的以及陳昭志委員講的都非常有道理我們怎麼樣照顧弱勢這是我們本來台灣國家要做的事情那怎麼樣在世代的一個正義或者是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5872.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5899.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們努力撐起了這個,結果是別人在負擔,而且這負擔的恐怕更慘。那這樣的話恐怕也是我們所擔心的。如果說財政都沒有問題,我想越多補助越好,包括我們剛剛周志偉提的柯市長能夠撥一些來補,其實每一個縣市的福利都相當的多,那有各式各樣的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5900.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5913.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
那這是要全國性的我們就必須要考慮到世代正義跟國家財政整個來看那如果以我剛剛徐委員提的這個部分我們預計如果20%以為了20%的 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5916.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5935.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我們算出來是359億嘛。對。359億。啊這你可以補充?好。補充一下。跟委員報告因為目前的65歲以上適用所的稅率未達20%的大概有到2024年我們推估大概有362萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5937.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5945.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
案。netesle等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案。netesle等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5953.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5974.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
案。 »: 三億左右。那這裡面原來已經在我們補助範圍的低收中低收的老人加起來我們2023年我們已經支付的全年大概是20億左右的錢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5974.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5992.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
目前國家中央加地方補起來大概是20億所以這個就算扣掉我們也還需要339億多這樣的一個經費的支出那這個只是社會局補助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5992.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
6006.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
另外還有健保的那一塊因為這樣而引發的需要再增加大概5503億左右。我請社保司再補充一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
6010.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
6029.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
報告各位委員那因為依照全民健康保險法的第三條其實我們政府必須要負擔保險費用36%意思就是說按照健保法第27條其實不同的類目的民眾他要負的保險費的時候我們政府也要負擔相當的一個就是比例的 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
6030.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
6042.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這個保險費以後如果仍然不足按照第三條必須要負擔36%但是可在健保法的實行細則第45條有提到好那第45提到的呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
6044.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
6059.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
等下我把這個稍微念一下那提到就是說依照這個27條我們健保法就是政府已經負擔了民眾的相當的比例的這些基本的規定保險費以外呢如果與其他法律規定也要補助各類保險人的這些保險費 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
6060.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
6078.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那其他法律就像這次如果訂定65歲以上的老人已經被列為其他法律規定的時候那政府就會把這樣的一個費用要做一個檢列那我們除了收到民眾的保險費以外政府負擔的保險費他會把它納到36%就不用再編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
6079.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
6098.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
那我在收這個保險費的時候我就會少掉也就是剛剛委員有在問說這是不是有算錯或者是說是不是在法律上的見解有問題其實我們拿到的保險費在36%的這個部分就會短收大概503億是用這個方式在做一個報告的以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
6099.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
6125.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我稍微補充報告一下,現在我們努力的真的讓健保的歸健保,所以36%政府盡量不要用公務預算來算到這36%,不然的話我想健保的收入會不足、電池會一直不能提升這樣子,所以這個也要注意。健保署剛好要公開,已經完成齁。好,先以上報告,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
6127.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
6130.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
楊瓊瓔等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案。 »: |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
6148.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
6168.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
副總我請問一下就是用公務預算來支付其實是不會影響到健保的收入的對不對?如果按照健保法第三條因為就是健保其他政府要負擔36%那如果併入進去的話那就會變成我們這36的person就減掉所以卻會影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
6176.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
6198.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
所以因為我們現在是政府負擔政府負擔那補助各種那不足的部分要補到36那現在有另外一個這個老人這個補助那併到36的時候那原來36就不減高度36對不對就是這個36就會變減少了被減少 對被減少可是你增加進來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
6201.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
6228.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
只是收入的來源是從國人還是從公務預算?是不是這樣子講?就業服務法第三條如果進來算在第三條的時候就會實質上減收入因為現在政府補助了36的部分那一部分如果也算進來政府又補了這個東西結果36變成是沒有額外增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
6232.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
6251.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
怎麼會他還是一樣用公務預算補給你啊?對,但是如果他不併到第三條的這個36%那就沒問題,如果併到這裡面的話就會有問題。那不併可以不可以?按照私隱細則他一定併。 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
6256.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
6269.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我是說不併在法制面能不能處理按照施行細則是他都併在裡頭因為法可以修施行細則更可以修 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
6274.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
6296.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
謝謝委員,適應細則是可以修的那這個適應細則在105年就曾經因為這樣修就是說其他的政府就是其他政府也是中央政府的一些相關法規規定如果訂進來比如說有這樣各式各樣補助都是補助保險費的話它都可以當作36%的一個來源之一那這樣子的話它就會被減劣反正我們在年底可以收到就是除了民眾保險費以外的這些政府應負擔的36%的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
6298.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
6327.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我就是因為這樣一直一直一直被扣掉以後我收到的實質的這個收入就會變減少所以在當時105年的時候那時候有把這個其他法律規定的這個費用是列在信息這45條那我們回到母法的第36條是因為有訂定我們政府在負擔我們所有的保費除了27條每一個個人的保費我應該負擔的比例以外那是為了因應個人的比如說百分之三十七十或是第五類福保的100%的部分以外呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
6328.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6328.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
案。 »: |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6347.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6354.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我其實只是把你們剛才講的問題釐清而已啦。我這邊講,我覺得我們現在由衛福部補助的對象確實是太... |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6364.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6378.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
說得太小齁,我們是70歲以上的中低收,我覺得應該65歲以上中低收就可以齁,那身心障礙的部分呢我也覺得應該要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6381.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6399.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
由衛福部來做補貼我覺得就是完全65歲以上全部由公務預算來補助我是覺得這個大家要慎思可是擴大補助的範圍這個是真正落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6408.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6427.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
若實照顧弱勢族群必須要做的也就是說我覺得你們現在全額補助的部分你們連身心障礙者的到中度你們才補助二分之一我覺得這個都應該要檢討那假如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6432.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6445.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
沒有關係部長跟署長你們聽就好了就是說我覺得現在全額補助的對象你們限縮的太少那假如說要擴大到全部65歲以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6448.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6456.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我也承認各縣市政府對於各項福利政策因為選舉的關係所以各縣市都有各自不同不只是健保費的減免 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6470.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6492.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
像跟大家講一件彭吳的補助彭吳透過幾次選舉彭吳的65歲以上的老人是團五節、重陽節跟過年都各發五千塊所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6496.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6516.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
要比照用各地方政府來做比照我是覺得會有問題因為選舉的過程各黨各派的候選人相近提出牛肉政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6517.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6544.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
也就是說澎湖我大概再用大家兩分鐘的時間澎湖我算過光是老人65歲以上的老人領的年節禮金一年要3億澎湖的自主財源總共才6億那我們是不是也可以比照拿澎湖的來比照 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6545.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6565.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
所以我覺得我們就單純探討到底健保的制度下應該要保障哪一些人讓他減輕他的負擔我們已經在點值上面保障一塊錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6567.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6595.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
增加了一些支出必須要公務預算來補貼假如在沒有任何限制的情況下65歲以上又有公務預算來補貼這個會不會第一造成國家政策的困難第二破壞保險制度最主要的本質這個提供給委員會做參考謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6598.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6623.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
謝謝接下來請陳昭智委員因為剛剛主席有請這個社家屬衛福部來做一個報告但是我對這個數字是有疑慮的點是說你現在只計算那個中低收入戶的部分說減只是差了20億但事實上不是我當然沒有時間把它全部念完比如台北市現在就在已經在做這個數字20%的那新北 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6626.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6652.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
他有分類有5%以下的也是相當程度的照顧像台南65歲老人他涉及一年也在裡面的補助那這個部分已經目前在跑的錢你要一併扣掉啊就是說我們不是只要這個原始的中低收入就是說有個性是不均勻的在提供這些補助這個費用要重新要去計算那請問現在有沒有有沒有就是說我認為我個人認為300多億不是事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6655.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6678.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
案,不是大家花的目前的補助同一筆錢你要先把它扣除才知道說你要額外花多少錢我們要的是這個真相那最後可以來補助的話可以討論那不平不平等是是憲法上不平等是不該不對的那我對於這個所上次提出從300多億到700多億這個數字一直有疑慮是不是部長就是說您現在有資料嗎還是說怎麼樣提供給我們謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6682.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6711.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
是不是剛剛陳昭之委員講的我記得三次委員會開會的時候有請你們要整理就是現在六都還有各縣市政府已經在補助了那一些的金額是多少坦白六都是人口最多的那如果六都都已經施行其實是蠻多的絕對不會是你們剛剛講的20億你們只是算中低而已但是六都現在地方政府有些縣市已經在施行了包括離島他們都已經實施65歲以上老人 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6713.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6730.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
免自付健保費。這個部分的資料有沒有?先讓部長講一下有沒有資料?手上的資料跟大家報告一下。你們剛剛一直說359。剛剛算的20億應該是政府補助,不是縣市政府在補助。那縣市政府補助有沒有統計?有沒有齁? |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6736.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6761.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
不過因為縣市政府是縣市政府有時候他為了他特別的特性個別的城市各的考量可能不一定全國都一致的那我們要考慮的我還是要提醒一下如果我們的這些負擔如果是20%以下的那個稅率的老人好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6763.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6773.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
他平均的我們算起來平均的收入是15萬我們今天一個年輕人大學畢業現在的平均值只有37500結果37500的人要去承擔15萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6778.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6806.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
事務的這些老人這樣對這些年輕人恐怕也是非常大的壓力這個是我們最感染的地方那當然國家財政能夠多造福利我相信這都是所以地方政府現在到底多少部長沒回答問題我先跟委員報告一個數字這個是我們請健保署這邊跑出來的資料含所有地方政府在補的目前是133億 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6808.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6808.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
23億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6825.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6840.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
所有的含中低,然後還有臺北市,然後原民,55歲以上的原民,所有的目前在補助的大概佔三分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6842.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6855.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
結果老人大概三分之一我們是用社會局的補助的區塊就是算社會福利的中低收老人2.5倍以下的 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6857.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6884.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我們另外也擔心齁,這些到處的公務預算有一個補助,到最後都算到36%的健保費,那搞不好現在健保費我拿完蛋了這樣子齁。現在我們都努力在36%的政府要給健保36%一定要清除掉所有的公務預算,問題是現在的細則是他都幫你算進去。所以你補助公務預算越多,你說你的健保 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6886.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6914.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
案的費用會越少,這恐怕也會造成醫療體系很大的一個衝擊。謝謝。好,其實他是總而不變,是你們算法的問題。來接下來我們請劉建國委員發言。黃秀芳委員要不要先讓劉建國委員發言?他好像急著要發言。好啦,那就按照順序,黃秀芳委員、蘇清泉委員再來劉建國委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6916.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6945.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
好 謝謝主席我記得上一次在委員會我有特別提到就是說我們現在針對那個中低低收中低收是70歲以上是全部都有我們那個中央這邊來支付那我是不是我上一次也有特別提到其實我認為我們更需要照顧這些需要被照顧的人因為確實如果是低收或中低收的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6945.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6965.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
案。 »: 其實這個真的經濟的壓力也很大那如果政府可以來協助的話我覺得算是也幫助這些這個長輩那我建議就是說是不是可以再把年齡往下降就原本是70歲以上那是不是可以就是針對低收中低收就是調到65歲65歲以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6969.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6996.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那另外就是說就是說我們確實如果說全部65歲以上如果是按照我剛剛拿到這個資料就是說在2024年可能65歲以上的這個老人人口數就436萬嘛那全部如果說由政府來支付以這個六類的話可能就是全部是這個391億 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6999.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
7021.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那391億這個是這個是還要包含就是還要包含那個原本就是這個是政府補助那另外就是健保的那個部分是不是也會短收就是說除了加除了這個391億之外那是不是還在加一個是健保原本是那個36%的那個部分是這個還在加進去嗎是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
7027.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
7041.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
合格是哈對那如果是這樣子的話會不會變成全部就是如果加起來的話將近就是800億如果是如果是全部政府的話那會不會排擠到其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
7043.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
7069.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
預算其實我覺得這個真的要確實要真的非常仔細去考量好那我還是要重申就是我們應該是要照顧這些最需要照顧的人就是低收或中低收那如果說原本是70歲我是覺得說65歲甚至60歲以上我都覺得可以考慮就是說如果他是低收或中低收的話好以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
7087.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
7097.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
主席還有美修部長還有我們所有的列席官員同仁大家午安我們老人福利法65歲以上不要繳健保費這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
7099.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
7126.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
勞有所依、所養的愛民精神我2022選縣長這也是我的政見各縣市的財政狀況不同但是六都大部分都納入了其六都以外的不能這樣不平等台北市、新北市及台中市比較高級 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
7127.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
7136.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我們苗栗、我們屏東是二等國民所以你講這個什麼什麼不同意我沒辦法接受啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
7137.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
7157.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那65歲以上的人,你說一年要350幾億,六都以外,六都以外剩下多少人?人口最多的是彰化縣,再來就是屏東縣。我讓所有算,算一算,屏東一年要20幾億,20幾億我拿去考考的,有些我們農民的,什麼都考考,全十幾億而已。 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
7160.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
7174.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
平均擬具十幾人擬具你台灣這六度以外要三百多個在亂講你們這怎麼算的陳昭之委員剛才也說你們都亂算一條所以算好全策不要互攏互攏這個委員大家現在都很認真 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
7176.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
7200.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那六十五歲國人健保會全額補助不同的待遇不同的縣市那六都就是比較高尚的人我們是不平等這我沒辦法接受這一點那我們全民健保現在已經是全民納保強制納保百分之九十九點九都納保了所以我們這個是很好的指標啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
7200.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
7206.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那我們國家發展委員會有推估,2026老人要高達20幾%屏東縣現在已經20%了,不定,現在已經20%了所以從來到現在70個醫生,我們知道,秀香姐說 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
7224.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
7242.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
他講七十歲他也沒辦法接受要給六五所以我才幫你報告各縣市的補助政策一定要一致性那至於剛剛在講的你的所得我們現在所得稅是5%、12%、20%、30%、40% |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
7247.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
7257.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那如果20%用 guideline的話,如果要往下拉一點,我想這個可以討論,這樣就比較少,就減少了。所以部長你剛才說的20%,這點我可以討論,看是否12%還是幾%。 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
7267.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
7291.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
當然不能說讓年輕人有被剝奪的感覺所以這個是我在這邊要跟大家報告另外也有牌付條款等等所以不像你想的那樣要花這麼多錢我剛才給他算了100萬就有了所以不要把事情看得那麼嚴重我們一心一意為百姓尤其是你看剛才楊耀貢他如果做館長要發一萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
7299.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
7315.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
一、三節各一萬啊。這樣可以嗎?所以,朋友就很有氣配,我們在民眾也比較有氣配。所以,照顧變成是我們的精神啦。以上。謝謝蘇清泉委員。接下來我們請劉建國委員。OK啦,謝謝主席。 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
7330.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
7357.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
青泉兄委員剛才講的齁部分基本上我是認可不過他的算數似乎大家再思考一下齁他說屏東縣就需要他計算之後是十幾億嘛齁那台灣全國應該是22個縣市嘛齁六都一瓦嘛齁啊六都一瓦也16對不對六都嘛22扣六都嘛就16嘛對不對對嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7362.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
7382.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
對啦,你可以這麼講啦,你可以這麼講,但是如果說一個屏東就十幾來億啦先把六都算進去,怎麼算都是三百多億嘛,因為我們現在是講全國要一致嘛所以這個算完應該不為過嘛,10億就兩百二十億了嘛15億就三百七十幾億了嘛,這應該是這樣嘛,我們現在是要說全國啊,要區域一致嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
7387.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7416.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我在這邊也要特別就請部長因為部長我們過去同事現在是貴為衛福部的部長你的高度跟思維是跟以前絕對會不一樣當人口老化臺灣邁入到明年就邁入到這個超高齡社會就所有的65歲的人數是佔總人口人數的20%其實我覺得是可能今年年底就達標了不一定要到2025我想這樣的速度之快 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7416.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7438.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
案 人呃呃老了這個65歲的人數的這樣的一個增長的有時候是我們很難去預估到了嗎應該是10年前是2026了講是2026到3年前就變成在在提早一年嗎那現在有可能是建議年底又達標所以這個人數是往上一直在一直在增加的而且速度是非常快的 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7439.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7457.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
那衛務部當然要做這樣詳細的這個相關的這樣的一個各個面向去做研議啦那原本我們中央市就已經有針對全國年滿70歲以上的中低老在還有相關的福保都是由中央來做這樣的一個負擔來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7460.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7488.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那當然各縣市陳鲁甘仔、楊委員所講的包含青玄松所講的到競選縣長所提出來這個相關的政見的過程裡面都希望可以對65歲以上的長輩有更多的照顧對這樣的家庭可以減輕更多的負擔這絕對是正面的啦他們的思維中央也一樣要有這樣的思維嘛但是在中央還沒有具備這樣的條件之下其實各縣市尤其六都已經先做了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7488.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7510.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
但是六度在做的時候也沒有一致性有的是綜合所得率5%以下有的是綜合所得率20%以下然後其他的一般縣市也有在做65歲我們是70歲他們是65歲以上的中低勞就由地方政府自行去做這樣負擔那全國搞了這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7512.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7521.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7534.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7562.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
事為大眾及各縣市的期待但我現在用另外一個角度去做思考就剛剛楊瓓瓏特別提到他說他們澎湖真的是蠻不錯的他今天在這邊講這些話可能很多人戶籍會遷到澎湖去我不曉得他們能不能夠概括承受就他們有三節的敬老慰問金一節五千三節就一萬五而且不只澎湖縣我記得不曉得是主要縣市忘記了哪一個縣市它是每個月三千 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7564.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7576.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
每個月三千那我們的相關的社會福利只可以折一嘛所以他也很厲害他以前是每個月發每個月發放最後最後他是一次性就發放 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7578.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7578.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
案件都可以去尋找得到。 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7603.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7629.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
那我今天必須要去提到就是說這個大方向基本上不會有問題我也要全力去支持啦但是當中央還沒有從65歲開始做處理的時候各縣市已經有這樣的能力去做處理了所以部長可能就是要跟行政院來做這樣的一個討論當各地方政府有能力做到這樣那中央怎麼可以沒有能力做到這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7631.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7640.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我講這個思維就是從中央在對地方的統籌分配稅款和相關的補助過程裡面可能那個試算必須要重新做檢視了啦重新做檢視了 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7644.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7668.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
因為我們要因應超高齡的社會來臨啦這樣的需求你絕對往上一而再再而三姑且啦齁如果說要去做批判就是說過度的加碼我不會講這種話我就覺得說這原本就會一直往上提高的這樣的需求然而各縣市已經在做就剛剛跟部長跟各位都說明的65歲六都 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7669.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7671.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7682.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7707.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
同樣的65歲的長輩在這個縣市、在這個六都、在另外一個直轄市,所以這個叫差別待遇啦。白白繳稅金啦,啊來賺這罐錢就這樣賺那罐錢就這樣。這給台灣人去做相關的這罐的批評其實也不好啦。所以中央就是要承擔起這樣責任。那另外一點,四大啦齁,除了年輕人,稅金也比較高。 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7708.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7714.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
若有法律的話,若倒下去才有機會,不用再繳稅金,不是說65歲以後你就不用繳稅,你什麼挖國稅,他簽過65歲,他一樣是要繳。 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7721.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7743.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
他不是免費的。房屋稅、地基稅,他好像不是這麼高啊。好,他享有健保免於支付這相關的費用的情況之下,我覺得我們確實可以朝這個方向去做思考。但是,我是要提到一點嘛,當地方的自主裁員允許情況之下,他先走也不為過啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7745.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7752.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
他先走不為過他如果走的像這個有20%的我覺得衛生部你就該獎勵啊行政院你就該獎勵啊他幫你專門減輕相關的負擔啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7758.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7779.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
當現在還沒有走的當然沒有辦法去懲罰嘛但是你在酌情的情況之下在做相關的統籌還有試算的時候你就必須要有一套標準來應變這事情不然今天健保會明天可能又另外一個會用只要過65歲你中央就必須要去做應變去做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7779.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7803.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
但是我覺得說當有很多縣市人家六都為什麼可以走了而六都的財源比較足我跟各位報告現在房地產景氣各位都非常清楚中央一直在打房打打打打打到各位可以看到所有的建築還是淋漓滿目雨後春筍當房屋稅地價稅地方在超徵的過程情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7805.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7832.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
應該都有足夠人力暫時性來做這樣的一個處理啦所以血腥處理我覺得你中央就應該去獎勵正在這個過程裡面趕快去做盤整趕快去做整個這樣的一個規劃我覺得部長有機會可以把這樣的重責大任承擔起來我覺得這個方向是可以被大家討論的也可以從這個方向來做出發啦好不好好謝謝謝謝劉建國委員接下來我們請黃建豪委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7843.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7865.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
好 謝謝我們主席我想今天討論這個健保補助的部分我想先講幾個事實我實在是希望討論一下我們還是要基於一些數字跟事實因為這個剛剛我們部長提到這個300多億我好奇說他是這個算法到底是用多少人口算出來的因為如果是現階段65歲以上的人口大概400多萬人436萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7867.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7888.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
案,436萬人,算下來每個月落800多塊,然後乘以一年,的確差不多就是300多億。所以你是不是用全部的人口算出來的結果是300多億,我在好奇這個數字怎麼算出來的。但是明明大家提出的修法版本並不是全部要補助啊。大家提出來的修法版本是針對一定級距以下才有補助。所以到底一定級距以下在全台灣有多少的人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7889.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7910.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
一年到底多少錢,這個我們是希望有一個具體的數字,我們這個討論才能延續下去,要不然部長你說一個數字,我們委員們又說不同的數字,那雙方就很難有交集,但到底那個數字怎麼出來的,雙方我們都沒有這個概念,那這個討論我覺得就是會比較可惜一點。再來剛剛也提到所謂的65歲以上20%以下年收入的問題,第一個, |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7913.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7916.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
兩人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案：立法院第四十六條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7933.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7951.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
案。netesa等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案。netesa等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案。netesa等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案。netesa等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案。netesa等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案。netesa等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案。netesa等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案。netesa等25人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7961.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7979.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
這個我覺得不用特別去強調這種什麼世代的問題不要說好像年輕人要養老養長輩這個問題因為第一個問題就是說這些長輩他本來就還是有在繳稅那第二個現實的社會面上他們本來就還有還是有在幫自己爸媽繳這個健保這是這個是這個是這個食物面的問題那再來提到一些精神上 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7980.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
8005.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
全民健保也好或老人福利法也好一開始的目的都是希望是做全民那針對所有的長輩要來做照顧所以今天提出這個修法最核心的目標是要維護所謂的老人福利法的第一條立法意旨就是要維護老人尊嚴跟健康延緩老人失能安定老人生活保障老人權利增進老人福利所以才制定本法這是老人福利法第一章寫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
8006.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
8019.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那我們今天提出這個相關修法其實也是在針對這件事情我們希望能夠落實因為既然高齡化社會即將要來臨那這個社會福利的問題我們的確要趕快來面對如果說衛福部對20%或對多少的計算基準 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
8021.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
8047.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
有意見有想法我覺得可以提出來但是我還是要講那個數字要很明確不能說部長講一個數字然後我們其他單位講一個數字委員講一個數字那這個人口基數完全計算標準不一樣的情況下面我們根本算不出來到底要多少錢才是合理的狀態所以以上提供這些想法給大家我們希望說這個法令還是要能夠順利的這個往這方向來推動讓我國65歲以上這些長輩他們能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
8049.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
8059.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
在老年生活中真的享有這個安定穩定的社會福利不用擔心這個不用有後顧之憂以上謝謝好謝謝接下來我們請張家俊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
8075.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
8099.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
過去八年政府因為政策綁裝或者是錯誤的政策預算都是幾千億的在花世代正義這個議題我非常認同但是世代正義不能輸一套做一套新生嬰兒青年學子老人嬰法是國家最需要照顧的三個族群但過去八年來其實我們沒有好好的照顧他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
8100.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
8121.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
出生率屢創新低人民的平均壽命從領先韓國到落後韓國所以呢本席主張這些錢呢應該要用在對的地方照顧更多的人那本席的提案就是要落實世代正義把錢用在對的地方用在需要的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
8122.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
8141.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
一、我們提出的這個老人福利法第22條的修正草案有三個非常重要的點第一點就是公平原則現在六都都各自有不同65歲以上的長者補助都是以地方經費來補助但六都以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
8141.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
8156.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
財政比較困難的縣市就很難去做到這讓台灣不同縣市的長者有差別待遇所以我們的提案首先追求的是公平原則那第二條是排富條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
8157.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
8166.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
案,經過牌覆之後才補助65歲以上的長者,那牌覆大家有不同的這個認定喔,有人提5%,有人提12%,那本席提的是20%,我覺得這的確是可以開放討論的,可以有空間大家仔細的來討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
8176.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
8193.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
案,事態公平對於經濟比較弱勢的65歲以上的族群補助,某種程度上來說是在減輕年輕親屬的負擔。那這個石崇良署長所說的一隻耳拔兩次毛的說法我不認同。 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
8194.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
8219.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
因為現在的狀況是有一些額要拔毛有一些額不用拔毛所以現在政府要做的是要妥善利用稅收讓大家都能夠得到公平的待遇那目前有說一個數字說是400億說健保會短收400億這是一個不實的數字因為現行的各類社福補助地方政府自行補助就有220億那 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8221.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8239.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
案 民眾的支出大概是180億那我覺得說這樣子的說法呢會刻意的造謠製造世代對立是非常的不妥當那包括說衛福部現在要研議的第六類健保補助也編列了100億假設這180億扣掉100億也只剩下80億那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8246.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8257.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
案,65歲以上以眷屬身份投保的有多少人?根據111年的全民健保統計接近200萬人,有198萬人,那65歲以上總投保的人數只有400萬人,那所以說將近五成的 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8268.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8268.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8313.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8317.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我本席支持老人福利可是我認為要理性 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8319.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8340.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
案。而65歲以上的老人並不等於事實上是貧窮。若根據民國111年的數據來看的話,65歲以上所得收入者人數佔總數的26.68%,那意味著社會上有四分之一的財富在65歲以上的人手上。另外, |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8340.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8357.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
判決人數是55至64歲人手上,10年後65歲以上的人口將掌握到48%以上的財富。所以我們今天所談論的老人不是刻板印象裡的衰弱貧窮孤獨的老人, |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8357.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8374.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
而是近代歷史上我們最受優勢的所謂戰後嬰兒潮的高齡化的這些人那這群人裡邊因為如果剛剛講的這樣的收入來看的話所以我們本席還是認為應該考慮到所謂世代爭議的問題因為畢竟我們未來大概15到64歲工作的人口佔67%負擔會在這些人身上的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8382.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8383.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
案。厲 余楊 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8398.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8405.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
案。 bicylaine Lambert等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案。 bicylaine Lambert等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8423.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8444.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
身障跟老人一定是被照顧的誰最沒被照顧就是我們的青少年我覺得這怎麼沒有世代正義的問題那一樣地方在花的時候我也很擔心的像現在剛剛講的那些地方已經在執行的是不是也是擠壓到像當初過去兒童福利法的時代少年福利法 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8445.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8449.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件事項議員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件事項議員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8466.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8495.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
限制在有一些要件來貼補不是不同意就像我們秀芳委員講的要照顧需要照顧的人可是如果全面要開放的話那本席非常不贊成因為這些錢有可能對於拿到那個健保800多塊的人他可能沒有感覺可是整個財政支出很多的時候大家就會影響到而且在財政紀律的考慮下本席認為如果要把地方的福利轉為中央支出要做精算 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8496.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8524.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
的確剛剛陳昭芝委員講說如果有些地方沒有辦法財政沒辦法的時候有沒有次等公民的狀態可是如果統一的話如果中央要來補助的話那可能要去考慮到我剛剛講要一個門檻限制不是全面開放以外可能還要去考慮如果每一個地方全部都有中央大家的福利都一樣那就穿制服一樣如果穿制服的話我不知道選縣市首長的人到底怎麼去開除他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8524.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8551.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
那時候他所謂的扭肉所以我覺得這也要考慮所以中央做精算以外真的要考慮到到底對其他的社福政策產生多大的排斥這也是部長你們要去精算出來假設最後還是排斥到我們的下一代我真的是不太贊成因為青少年青少年福利常常都是被優先排擠的對象這個要考量以上接下來請王正旭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8570.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8589.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
謝謝主席、各位委員。針對這個部分,我個人也真的有一些感受。因為如果按照年齡的話,我也是可以符合這個條款。不過我個人也是這樣覺得,為什麼剛剛建國委員提到,不是5%就20%? |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8591.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8591.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
案 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8608.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8627.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
這個就是我們不知道這個數據的來源為什麼當初會這樣設定這個真的大家要重新來了解看看因為我們做事情希望有一個好的根據好的數據那我們也希望他的背景他的來源會是什麼所以如果說對於我們要尊敬 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8628.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8641.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
章者而且也希望把該有的費用都能夠對我們需要照顧的長者得到最好的處置的話我個人認為還是需要有一些數據來支撐會是比較適當 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8644.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8645.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
桑吉娜等19人擬具桑吉娜等19人擬具桑吉娜等19人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8669.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8694.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我們如果要修法我們希望這個法的修訂是很符合台灣的現況的同時也能夠把該有的費用做適度的處置那我認為建國委員講得非常好如果未來中央需要配合地方整個行政的流程更一致的話那很多前瞻性的思考模式必須要把它列進來以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8697.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8713.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
好 謝謝那委員都已經發言完畢是不是我們就來處理這個議案好不好其實上次也已經討論過是因為部長不在尊重部長所以今天再繼續審查對那我們就做以下決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8714.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8727.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
老人福利法條文修正草案暨七案審查完略條文均保留並按擬具審查報告提報院會討論院會討論本案時由王昭吉委員欲明補充說明是否需交由黨團協商好那交由黨團協商本次會議到此結束散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8742.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8743.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
判決議案判決議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8758.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8776.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
案。閱讀委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案。閱讀委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案。閱讀委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案。閱讀委員楊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案。閱讀委員楊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案。閱讀委員楊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8781.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8790.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
案,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 案,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 |