| IVOD_ID |
160033 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160033 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-10T09:09:42+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-10T09:25:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:35 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/127fafa562dc971286715591e82c19e6803d2cc4ed617307dffdecc4c49be5a794f7e1115bc77d055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:09:42 - 09:25:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部矯正署、內政部警政署、內政部移民署、海洋委員會海巡署率所屬相關單位列席就「法院作成『略式裁定』之依據、理由、法定程序、救濟方式，與科技設備監控處分變更、延長或撤銷之標準，並就執行現況，提供相關統計數據與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席,麻煩請司法院王副秘書長、法務部部長麻煩部長還有副秘兩位好,上一次針對有關於中文字細胞檢討的案子我想副秘書長應該還記得很清楚那天我請教您為什麼高院的裁定 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
43.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
對於保證金取代科技監控設備完全找不到結果搞了半天是連裁定都沒有做完全沒有做完全沒有做 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
62.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
等到事情大調了以後才開始匆匆補做我們先分兩個層次的問題剛剛第一個層次的問題就是複密講的沒有錯裁定你要不然要宣示要不然要送達才會對外發生效力 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
63.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
92.674 |
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那我現在下一個問題來啦因為這個裁定一直到了今年我們質詢完了以後發現當初根本沒有做才在今年3月28號補做下面的問題是啊去年10月16號的時候是不是叫鐘文志或者是通知他的辯護人多拿2000萬來辦交保是沒有做嗎是那請他繳2000萬的法律基礎是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
103.411 |
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在去年10月16號的時候在我們的法律世界當中沒有任何一個裁判可以命他多繳2000萬我說的沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
107.355 |
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130.741 |
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委員您垂詢的是那也正是因為何義廷的這個為師就是沒有就是送答然後也沒有在當庭言辭做宣示所以他們所做的這個就是違反一個程序的規定也因此呢司法院的態度很清楚就是我們後來查細這些事情之後司法院的態度我等一下會問啦我們是法律人嘛因為我如果再問A問題然後你再回答B答案這樣大家會聽不懂啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
135.662 |
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163.061 |
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這樣對不起來嘛現在我的問題很具體啊去年10月16號叫他拿兩千萬來的那個法律的基礎是什麼我從法律的觀點看是沒有法律的基礎我這樣的理解有沒有錯誤可以這樣說因為那個裁定根本沒有對外生效那現在問題來了啊現在這兩千萬如果人家要你還他那你怎麼辦那個報告委員因為這個部分就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
164.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
191.627 |
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之後的這一些程序的處理它還是涉及到審判的核心這個部分我們司法行政也不便對就是就何一庭這個職權的行使來做一個回答現在喔何一庭啊出了這個大包他們要負責這個我同意我其實也沒有在怪您啊因為那裁定也不是你做人也不是你放的嘛要你在這邊幫他挨罵幫他背鍋對你也不公平啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
192.458 |
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220.264 |
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但是我覺得在法律上面我們在討論法律制度的問題就要把法律制度的問題講清楚所以我現在擔心的第一個事情是什麼第一個事情是去年繳的那兩千萬沒有法律授權的基礎你憑什麼給人家留著今天如果中文字囂張一點啊就叫他辯護人啊叫你們兩千萬還來啊當初你要我繳那兩千萬根本沒有法律的基礎啊這個時候怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
222.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
227.837 |
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這個說我國司法制度就尷尬了真的就尷尬了第二個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
230.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
256.636 |
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在你今天司法院的報告也不了解的所謂劣勢裁定嘛因為今天你報告我覺得法律人有一說一對於這樣的精神我基本上是認同的啦司法院在書面報告上跟全國的法律人講說我們的司法院也搞不清楚什麼叫劣勢裁定那顯然啦這個法官知道出了包了以後想要亡羊補牢 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
258.277 |
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276.63 |
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去發明了這個詞出來但是我對你們講的一個詞啊是有意見的 什麼意見啊 來看一下裁定雖然沒有判決書格式那麼嚴謹的要求那但是什麼 但是刑事訴訟法50條到51條針對於裁判書所應記載的內容基本上是有規定的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
283.317 |
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309.671 |
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所以即使是裁定刑事訴訟法51條針對裁判書所應記載的內容也有要求嗎是的我這樣說應該沒有錯嗎是的那因為你們公告的裁定跟原始的裁定是不是一樣我們無從得知因為依照刑事訴訟法的規定裡面有一些針對有關於受裁定人要被特定的那些資料是應記載的事項沒有錯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
313.789 |
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330.31 |
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您聽不懂嗎?我教說應該沒有錯嗎?但是你們現在所公告的這個劣勢裁定對於實際上面那個裁定的原本跟正本是不是相符的這件事情司法院確認過了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
335.007 |
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352.82 |
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因為那個書記官嘛 上面是寫說上面正本的製作跟原本相符嘛那按照目前司法院或高院所採取的立場是案件審理單可能也是書面裁定的一種嘛我特別加可能兩個字啦還是你們現在就確定是裁定的一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
354.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
374.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
就我們調查就是這個何怡婷呢他們是在那個理由單裡面去批了這個裁定的意旨然後何怡婷之後在3月28號的時候呢是把這個審理單上那個裁定意旨的那個內容也就是現在大家看到我現在就問得很清楚囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
375.692 |
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400.773 |
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如果這個審理單我們按照高院的那個法官他的主張他認為是所謂的裁定的話他現在顯然就這樣主張嘛他的主張只是這個裁定有沒有對外發生法律效果嘛所以是不是要補送答的問題嘛那我現在的問題是那個案件審理單上面的資訊跟他現在公告的這個裁定的資訊內容是不是一樣這件事情確認過了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
402.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
417.098 |
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跟委員報告就是說就我們因為這個自律的那個內容也都已經揭露嘛那這我們可以報告就是說他們這個審理單上呢就是最早原始的那個記載就是如現在所那個揭示的那但是那個自律 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
418.618 |
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446.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
之所以他們成立就是決議說這要送法平有為師其中的第二個理由就是說他們後來在上面還有再增加了一些那個增刪了一些東西這個現在就是我的核心問題喔是當初的案件審理單我姑且把它成為A版本嘛是但是現在公告的裁定是B版本嘛我應該沒有說錯吧現在公告的是第一個版本是A版本它後來還有個第二跟第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
446.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
476.147 |
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他後面還有第二跟第三個版本這個在這個新聞稿上已經有揭露了法官可以這樣做嗎因為依刑事訴訟法40條就是所公務員所製作的文書有增刪的時候呢就是一定要去那個註記不是啊依照他們現在的看法啦那個裁定啊成立的時間點到底是什麼那個裁定成立的時間點是A版本B版本還是C版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
477.324 |
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505.359 |
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因為我現在如果按照您剛剛這樣的講法現在有三個版本的裁定喔現在公告的是第一個版本嘛是那第二個版本跟第三個版本從司法院的觀點算什麼隨便亂寫的東西這個部分要由何一庭來回答這司法院沒有辦法幫忙做那個沒有啦 做解釋我尊重審判獨立啦是但是你如果尊重審判獨立尊重到ABC三個版本要怎麼回答都要由何一庭來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
506.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
528.583 |
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在司法的公眾監督上面沒有辦法處理這件事情那等於是法官針對自己的裁定可以做很多版本司法院的態度很清楚因為他們這樣子做就已經是違背了這些程式規定也因此有這個圍屍呢那個高院的資歷委員會就是送法屏的圍屍室又有包括這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
530.923 |
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543.422 |
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這法官百分之百應該要送懲戒這個我跟你沒有意見不一樣的地方現在我在請教的是在法律上面現在這個裁定到底是A版本 B版本還是C版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
545.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
573.94 |
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因為他會牽涉到一個更大的問題是我昨天啊請教一下法務部部長的上面的記載後來被抽換那我相信我們都是法律人不要爭執這件事情啦這種事情用抽換的方式是不對的嘛我的理解沒有錯吧電話紀錄嗎還是手提單電話紀錄是對這也是違反刑事說法40條來那個部長我昨天請教完了你以後你有沒有回去瞭解那個檢察官到底有沒有表達這個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
575.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
595.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這部分是如同那個整個電話紀錄裡面我們還在調查中你們還在調查嗎因為這個還在那個調卷嘛希望動作可以快一點希望可以動作快一點因為這個司法大醜聞整個社會都非常非常的關心那最後我先請教一下司法院副秘書長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
597.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
607.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
因為那一位審判長他已經不事任兼任庭長了嘛你們說你們要開人審會把他庭長拔掉嘛庭長拔掉沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
607.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
630.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
報告委員因為這位庭長他後來在4月1號的時候他就寫了簽呈自行免監那這個也已經核定下來了所以連人審會都不用開了嗎是 預計4月14號派令會生效接下來整個懲處的程序可能對於法官評鑑委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
631.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
660.677 |
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的公信力 社會公信力 可能會再遭受一次社會全面的檢視 這個司法院應該心裡有數嗎是的 也跟委員報告在昨天的時候呢 就是這一個申請書也送到法評會了OK 好 來 接下來請部長那個部長我知道你等一下要走齁 我們講快一點之前啊 我揭露有檢察官跑去跟無奶人吃香喝辣 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
661.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
690.136 |
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那後來呢地檢署就地檢署的部分有把這幾個檢察官送檢察官評鑑嘛那之前呢你們回給我的函說高檢署有要做行政調查報告這個行政調查報告完成了嗎各位委員報告齁這個高檢這個有發交給北檢來做行政調查那北檢的行政調查是認為這個有違反公務員所以在這邊齁來來來你看你公務員最下一行 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
690.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
708.44 |
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高檢的行政調查持續進行中尚未結案所以你現在回給我的高檢的行政調查到底還有沒有在進行還是北檢移送評鑑以後就算結案了因為這個已經移送那個個案評鑑那這部分高檢贊同這種的看法所以這邊已經結案了蛤 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
710.368 |
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725.616 |
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這個部分就算結案了這個一定會送個案評鑑因為所有參與參會的這些五位檢察官都送個案評鑑現在喔我公開質疑過一個問題我到目前為止沒有聽到法務部的回應所以我想今天公開請教你的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
726.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
753.65 |
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把這五個檢察官送評鑑我非常贊成我非常贊成敗壞檢察官的官真敗壞檢察官的官真傷害司法的公信力但我的問題啊 是什麼這個標準有適用所有的檢調嗎為什麼我這樣問當初北檢的檢察長在當調查局局長的時候跑去台碩的招待所 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
755.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
778.753 |
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跑去台塑的招待所那個時候正在接受調查的是誰是鄭文燦還有送他錢的楊兆琳還有送他錢的楊兆琳這個是等於什麼調查局帶了一堆官員去台塑的招待所招待一個貪污犯送錢的人他們的招待 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
781.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
790.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
為什麼調查局的局長現在北檢的檢察長可以幹這種事情然後都不需要接受任何的行政調查或懲處是有雙標嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
793.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
817.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
是有雙標嗎這個沒有雙標如果沒有雙標的話 那請問針對這位前調查局局長現在台北地檢署的檢察長法務部做了什麼處理因為我看不到我公開發文質疑了非常久啊是跟全國的檢察官說即使那個貪汙犯那個送錢的正在被調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
818.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
841.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
只要財大氣粗一樣可以去他的招待所吃喝玩樂是這樣嗎請部長這部分如果有具體事證那我們是絕對聽聽聽這上面寫的還不夠清楚這上面寫的還不夠清楚王俊麗也沒有否認他有去啊他從頭到尾沒有否認他有去啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
847.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
867.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
他說他去是公務啊我看不懂這是什麼公務啊一個正在被你調查貪污犯送錢給鄭文燦的在招待所裡面招待你結果他跟社會說是公務然後整個法務部從上到下靜悄悄都不用調查不用處理來請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
871.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
899.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我們再重申就是我們會秉公處理絕對不會互端好 你說要秉公處理我非常讚賞可不可以講具體一點如何秉公處理那這個還是經過要了解這個還要了解 你要了解多久給你一個禮拜了解夠不夠這件事情發生很久了啦我也公開質疑很久了啦只不過我人為言輕狗吠火車啊我公開質疑了以後到今天從法務部到高檢署到台北地檢署沒有一個人回應啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
901.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
913.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
大家都在裝沒事啦反正用混的混過去就好啦然後您今天說要秉公處理不要講空話如何秉公處理主席站起來了給我一個答案就好你需要多久你說你還要調查嗎沒關係我給你時間調查一個禮拜夠不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
919.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
932.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們半個月兩個禮拜兩個禮拜好兩個禮拜我們來瞭解看看兩個禮拜這件事情該什麼處理請法務部正式的回函給所有世華法治委員會的委員好 謝謝好 謝謝 |