| IVOD_ID |
160020 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160020 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-09T12:27:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-09T12:51:15+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:24:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/984603a5a250cdce3ec931abfb5ca20679a8b3a3b5782fdd03873e74607c39c28053b69fbe3a03365ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳宗憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:27:01 - 12:51:15 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、數位發展部部長、教育部部長、大陸委員會主任委員、內政部移民署署長、國家安全局局長及國家人權委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「言論自由不在？界線誰說了算！國家介入特定政治言論之法律邊界」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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我們麻煩教育部正次 陸委會副主委 法務部長還有司法院廳長教育部陸委會 法務部還有司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.278 |
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好那首先我先破題的簡單講一下就是因為我們其實這段時間我受夠了很多不明的不明的這些網軍總之對我們的發言斷章取義所以我先在這邊先說明一下第一個我今天所有的質詢都不針對個案那你們也請不要用個案來回答我第二個對於所有 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
46.414 |
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只要是對我們這塊土地的有侵害的外來武力我們都予以反抗我們一定都會出來反抗而且所有希望以武力來顛覆我們這塊土地的我們都予以譴責但是呢 回過頭來我講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
65.373 |
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85.738 |
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重點但是有些言論雖然不被我們所能接受但是不代表國家就可以動用公權力來加以限制他發言的理由也就是有一些言論他不被我們喜歡但是是不是有到達違法或用法律加以處罰其實這兩個東西是完全不同層次的 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
86.678 |
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的概念所以我自己在上個會期的時候我有提到在1990年的時候我自己參加野百合學運一直到後續也有廢紙動力勘案次序臨時條款然後後來我再去參加了廢除刑法100條的活動其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
104.961 |
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我一直在追求的就是所謂的百分之百言論自由所以今天很多民進黨委員來這邊講說鄭南榮多麼啟發他其實鄭南榮一直他的言論他所謂的言論自由一直是我追求的一個重點所以他所說的在面對槍口之下他也是追求百分之百言論自由或是像楊兆所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
128.192 |
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鄭南榮到死他都還是堅守百分之百言論自由我想說這些東西現在目前在有一些民進黨的政客的嘴裡面其實我覺得他們是在褻瀆鄭南榮的精神我想先提一下 當年為什麼參加廢物刑法100條 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
148.874 |
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168.154 |
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的這個活動當然當時那個主要原因是因為當時我的學校導師是劉初之教授他先生是林三田那林三田本來就是廢族刑法100條的領先人所以一直以來我們都是追隨著他們而且我們希望當時流亡在海外的異議分子能夠平安的回到台灣我們當時是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
169.756 |
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195.395 |
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我們的都在追求這個甚至在刑法100條在修正之前其他第二項根本就是一個思想犯的控制那他第一項他在修正之後也加上了許多必須要強暴脅迫的實際行為這時候才會加以限制所以我們在這麼久以前就知道要去廢除刑法100條來追求我們人民的言論自由為什麼到今天反而走回頭路 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
196.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
204.498 |
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那我想請問一下法務部跟司法院如果有人在網路上面發表說我要顛覆賴清德政府請問這有沒有成立內亂罪這應該很簡單吧請問這有沒有成立內亂罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
221.072 |
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250.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
好 就是沒有成立內亂罪嘛 對不對我想這結論 我想這非常簡單啦所以呢 其實賴總統他前天說的他說任何鼓吹剝奪台灣人民自由主張讓中華民國台灣消失的倡議都不是台灣社會能夠接受的言論自由而百分之百的言論自由 更不是利用自由來消滅自由基本上啊 我大部分還是認同賴總統說的話畢竟沒有國家了 那大家也就無所依附了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
251.047 |
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268.7 |
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所以講台灣消失的言論不會被主流民意所接受但是違不違法這是另外一回事我再講一次很多言論不被主流民意所接受但是違不違法是另外一個層次的問題所以呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.618 |
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299.397 |
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我想言論自由的界限在哪裡 這個很重要我們必須告訴人民 什麼能講 什麼不能講但是政府對於這個東西 似乎是完全沒有很明確的規範就像這次法務部你們跟司法院都有提到的4至445號跟644號其實他已經講得很明確了就是說國家不可以單純因為集會遊行的團體主張共產主義或分裂國土 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.297 |
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325.828 |
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不能因為主張這個就限制他們或拒絕他們集會遊行的許可所以從這個四字我們很能夠明確的了解就是所謂限制人民的言論自由它必須要有兩個要件第一個要明確所以我們法律要有明確性第二個要有立即的危險所以當有這兩個的時候你加以限制是完全正確的但是今天如果不是的情況下 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
327.188 |
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337.786 |
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那實際不應該立法加以限制啊你只能說他是一個不入流一個不好的言論但是不至於到我們要用法律去規範他嘛所以呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
340.233 |
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356.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
過去民進黨追求100%研究結果 但到今天似乎又變了那我再請教一下教育部政次我想請教一下 部長最近的發言他認為說 教育人員在教學的時候要讓青少年具有國家主權的意識要確保國家認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
359.941 |
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379.996 |
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我跟你說我認同這一句話因為我從小我爸爸就告訴我叫我做到兩件事愛國還有孝順這我公開講過很多次我爸從小就叫我這兩件事一定要做到所以我對於國家認同對於愛國我是非常重視這個行為好那我請教一下部長這麼說那鄭次郭想請教你 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
382.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
409.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
今天你們要求老師跟學生要這麼做要求老師要這麼宣導那我請教您一個問題所謂的國家認同是一憲法所講的中華民國還是二兩岸人民關係所講的台灣地區以及大陸地區或是三台獨就是台灣獨立主權獨立的台灣國還是四蔡英文政府她所說的堅持維持現狀的台灣還是五 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
412.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
437.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
小時候課本寫了做個堂堂正任中國人請問這五個是哪一個叫做是我們的國家認同我想部長已經講得很清楚那你等於沒回答我他就是中華民國的教育工作者你等於沒回答我請問一下這五個是哪一個我講一個最簡單您今天貴為次長您也是政治人物出身我非常尊重您但是如果貴為政次而且是政治人物出身的人都無法告訴我所謂的國家認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
440.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
467.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
愛國到底愛的是什麼樣的到底是什麼我剛剛講的就五個這五個也是非常明確第一個憲法第二個兩岸人民關係條例第三個大家講的台獨第四個蔡英文前總統所說的維持現狀的台灣第五個還是小時候課本說的台灣真正的中國人這五個是哪一個我要效忠哪一個或我要認同哪一個那個才叫做符合教育部部長所說的國家認同請教次長他有講到憲法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
470.054 |
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480.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以呢我剛才在報告的時候也有提到我們享用的言論自由是根據憲法第二條這五個選項很簡單嘛憲法上現在是中華民國嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
482.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
505.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以今天你說的是你認為部長所說的國家認同是憲法的中華民國我以為你秀出來就有提到不要忘掉身為一個中華民國的教育工作者所以這個講得很清楚沒有問題沒關係我剛剛就講有五個但是今天似乎實際上在政治圈大家不是這麼講 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
507.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
530.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
還有人大言不慚的說中華民國憲法是災難本來一開始說中華民國是災難後來趕快改口說中華民國憲法是災難那我這不講誰大家也都知道所以現在其實我跟各位報告搞到今天所謂的國家認同都只能講台灣你不能講別的你講台灣以外就叫做中共同路人所以打球打贏的台灣隊打輸的叫中華隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
531.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
555.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這只會出現在荒謬的台灣才有這個狀況其實這很離譜但是我還是跟各位說我不討厭民進黨的人我不痛恨他們但是我超級熱愛這塊土地所以我認為我就是熱愛這塊土地所以我從小就認為愛國是一件很重要的事情可是你今天反而混淆了我到底我的國家認同要在哪裡那如果說今天連 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
557.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
572.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
上面的長官們自己都搞不清楚都無法確定了或是說的跟做的不一樣就像部長在喊說台灣國的什麼什麼這是部長 不是教育部長啦連劉部長都說了我們台灣國怎麼樣那我要 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
573.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
588.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
老師怎麼教學生 要學生怎麼遵循就我剛剛講的 這各種都是不一樣啊所以 好吧 反正這個不是教育部講 所以我也不適合問次長說有部長在台上喊台灣國 這個大家想法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
589.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
615.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以我覺得這種搞下去台灣變成很對立的社會似乎你不認同民進黨口中所說的那個國家的那個概念或他的定義那你就是中共同路人事實上我剛剛講的我不恨民進黨員我以前也很堅持的支持民進黨的青年情障礙鄉土但是今天他變了是他變了不是我變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
617.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
642.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
他對這塊的土地熱愛 其實我是已經看不到了那我再跟各位報告一件事情DPPS前幾天的網路投票其實有77.4%的人認為戴總統上任之後言論自由被限縮很多9.3%認為被限縮了一些也就是說超過8成5的民眾感受言論自由的限制是比過去更嚴重這個請給各位參考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
643.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
660.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個不是我所追求的百分之百言論自由也不是我一生尊崇的鄭南榮他的言論自由所會引導出今天台灣的這個現狀所以一些言論即使在言論的市場不被大家喜歡但是不代表它就是違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
661.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
683.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
不被人民喜歡的言論他也不代表就會動搖台灣現在的安全跟國際的現狀所以我想這給各位講一下那我再請教一個問題法務部跟司法院我請教一下我國目前有沒有規範鼓吹戰爭罪請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
690.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
700.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這份委員報告,那個現刑法有可能涉及到鼓吹戰爭的言論,包括就是仇恨性的言論,這個譬如說刑法100條、101條、103條、309、310、還有153條,還有涉違法的63條。309、310,公然侮辱舉報。這就是妨害名譽這部分,都有涉及仇恨性的言論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
714.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
740.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
誹謗跟供罕無辱這是仇恨性的言論這跟骨髓戰爭有什麼關係309、310不可能啦骨髓戰爭的言論這部分骨髓戰爭的言論的話我們看可以更明確化但是有涉及的條文是有這些跟仇恨性的言論部長你這樣講太包沾包海了這講出去會被念法律的人笑啦我說實在話我想這個我們就可能我說可能有涉及到這部分仇恨性言論因為這個戰爭有這些仇恨性的言論 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
741.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
766.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個講仇恨性能夠講一個就是戰爭簡單來說就是譬如說有人喊武統這個我國目前到底有沒有制定這個法律有沒有那還是廳長如果部長你總是搞不清楚那廳長呢我不會搞不清楚啦那個我已經好那你跟我說哪一條你再跟我說一次哪309、310講出去線上看到的法官檢察官應該會笑出聲音那我們就先說在那個整個一個內亂外患通某開戰這部分嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
770.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
786.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這跟鼓吹沒有關係啊我來跟各位報告 至少我自己基本認為啦目前我國並沒有就鼓吹戰爭這個行為加以立法那我再跟各位報告一下 我國是成文法國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
787.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
812.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
以及我國的罪行法定原則也就是你的行為除非法律有規範他犯罪否則基本上他是不會構成犯罪所以我國是堅守罪行法定主義以及純文法國家的這個概念那今天有兩位民進黨的委員一位省姓委員一位無姓委員他們兩位一直在講公正公約二十條他說某人 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
813.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
839.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
鼓吹 蔣無統這個部分呢怎麼會沒有違法這個公正公約第20條就他們也念了公正公約20條的條文結果他念的條文跟他講的解釋完全不一樣他連法律都沒有搞懂公正公約20條任何鼓吹戰爭之宣傳應以法律禁止之也就是說公正公約20條他所刻意的義務是國家必須訂出法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
841.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
868.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
是這個規定國家必須定出法律而不是告訴人民說你講這個就是違法什麼情況下會違法就是當國家定出法律之後人民加以違法那叫做違法這叫做所以這就回到我剛說的這是我國的罪行法定主義是這樣所以呢今天這兩位委員一直提公正公約二十條所以今天有人在網路上面講梧桐兩個字這個是違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
870.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
898.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
其實這是完全錯誤的概念這個也是對於法律認知的思考的跳躍這個邏輯完全中斷思考的跳躍才會發生這個說法所以公正公約二十條第一項我們該檢討的是什麼是過去的立法院以及過去不管藍綠執政的行政單位為什麼沒有趕快把這個法律立出來為什麼沒有2009年公正公約就已經生效了為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
899.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
927.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
十幾年下來國家卻沒有把這條法律立出來結果今天有某一個人他在網路上面講了這句話之後你就說這個違反公正公約20條可是公正公約20條他是要求國家去立這個法律我想這很明確那至於說有一些人他要思考跳躍的去解釋法律那我就予以尊重所以又回到我剛剛說的我國目前沒有鼓吹戰爭罪嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
928.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
950.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
至少從構成要件來看 有嗎好 那不管有沒有 那我再請教一下有網紅啊 在他的歌曲裡面 就是要求中國大陸求你趕快打過來 你到底打不打那請問一下 這個有沒有違反 違反法律規定這個是不是鼓吹戰爭我想請教兩位 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
956.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
984.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好吧 那沒有辦法回答就算了我想我們不能always雙標在面對國人尤其是法律跟制度應該長治久安你一方面可以說有人在講武統或武裝那個我也很討厭那個言論我也絕對譴責講這些話的人但是他在法律上面要怎麼去定位法律是不是要符合法律明確性告訴大家言論自由的界限在哪裡而不是今天你非我族類 那你就違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
985.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1004.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
你是我同一掛人所以你今天你講叫中國大陸趕快打過來你到底打不打啊就沒事所以我在這邊必須點出這個從法律的角度來告訴大家公正公約第一個被很多政客自己隨便亂誤解公正公約它刻意的對象是國家以及行政機關、立法機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1005.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1030.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那今天我國只要還沒有完成這個立法程序之前人民你不能說他這個行為違法你可以說他不道德你可以說他這樣不好你可以說我譴責你這個說法但是你沒辦法說他違法我在這邊跟各位做這樣的報告好那我這次跟法務部要資料部長啊我給你請教一下說啊到底你這個鼓吹戰爭罪什麼時候要立法你們給我的回覆是研修小組在113年4月2號已經開過有開過一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1034.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1046.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那現在一年多了啊那到現在到底是怎麼樣卻沒看到第二個我跟你要資料你又給我回覆說不提供會議紀錄因為依據政府資訊公開法18條第一項第三款這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1050.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1067.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這個研修紀錄是不能公開的但是請你看一下那一條有一個但書那一條的但書就是跟公益有必要的時候得公開那我今天覺得這個東西跟我們國人言論自由的範圍有非常大的關聯性跟公益也有關聯性 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1068.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1083.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
甚至一個人他到底在網路上面能講什麼不能講什麼或者是有人講被辦有人講沒事那到底範圍界限在哪裡這毫不明確所以我還是認為說下次我還是會形容跟你們一樣但是我想說如果你再跟我說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1085.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1111.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
你要提這個政府資訊公開法來不給我的話我想說這個跟公益有關我還是希望你們能夠公開另外一年多了這東西到現在沒有進度這也是我想要點出來讓大家知道法務部這一塊你就是怠惰在處理這個事情最後我想請 不好意思喔耽誤到大家的時間最後我想請問一下那個陸委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1113.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1142.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
陸委會我有拜讀你們的資料還有剛剛陸委會主委也有提到剛剛在做口頭報告的時候也有提到一個點就是說你說陸配的言論自由程度跟公民不同因為要有較高的管制那這個我不評論我都予以尊重因為你說這個是境外敵對勢力等等的這個說法所以必須對他們有高強度的管制我先不評論這件事情我想要請教你的那所謂的陸配的定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1144.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1171.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
第一個如果只有居留權的陸配才要高強度的管制嗎還是第二個取得身份證後的陸配也要高強度的管制第三個如果是中國大陸出生成長受教育但是事後入籍他國或港澳然後再與我國人結婚那這三種請問一下這個管制上面是一致適用高強度管制還是有所區別請教副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1173.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1195.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
如果他只有居留權 他能夠住在台灣是因為我們特許他我們給他特許讓你住在台灣 但我們可以隨時取消這個特許權所以他的管制就會比較更高一點譬如說他不一定要居留 也許他是來停留或者是來觀光 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1196.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1217.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
他講出類似可以會違背國家利益或是干擾社會秩序的言論那我們就不歡迎那他如果拿到身份證或是定居但我們在定居留許可辦法之中也有相對的條文至於你說第三種狀況是說他 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1221.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1246.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
中國大陸人士他拿到美國籍然後跟台灣人結婚那我們會看他說拿到美國籍或是拿到其他國家國籍有多久的時間基本上我們會用五年來算就是說你拿到其他國家的國籍五年之後我才四年之後我才確認你可能已經放棄了中國的國籍了這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1249.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1257.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
第一個只有居留證的陸配你們認為是要比較高強度的管制那有身份證的我剛剛沒有聽清楚有身份證的話你們怎麼認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1258.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1283.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
有身份證的話 因為我們在定居留尋可辦法裡面也有相應的條文跟這個居留的部分是有點類似所以這個部分應該是這麼說就是台灣跟大陸之間它的狀況很特殊所以我們在兩岸條例從一開始設計的時候它就跟國籍法不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1284.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1313.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我們在處理兩岸人民關係的時候跟台灣跟其他國家是不同我也認同我的意思是說我都沒有意見啦就是說台灣跟中國大陸之間的關係很特別這個我OK但是我的意思是說不管怎麼樣對人民我們的任何行政處分都要明確嘛法律明確性原則這是一個法律最基本的概念所以呢我現在確認的是第一個有居留權的陸配這個管制上面會比較嚴格那我剛剛請教的如果您有身份證的當初的陸配 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1314.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1338.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那這個要不要嚴格我只是要問這個問題而已應該是這樣講就是我們既然給他身分證原則上我們是把他當作是中華民國國民就是他的言論自由的審查程度不會像只有居留權的陸配那麼高好像得到這個有他國籍的這些就是以四年來當作判斷的標準那這個我可以了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1339.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1361.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
好那最後我還是一樣就是說我提到一個我還是反對任何武統言論或者是只要有任何武力要對我們這塊土地要侵害我都願意出來對抗所以不要扣我們什麼帽子只要不認同民進黨就叫舔共沒有這種事情啦台灣是大家的台灣是我們熱愛的這塊土地不是我不認同你的邏輯那我就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1361.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1373.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那個誰的同路人我跟你講這個就是把人民二分法搞激烈對抗然後獲取政治利益而已啦這其實很沒水準啦所以但是呢不管怎麼樣我覺得我對言論自由的追求 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1375.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1395.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
還是一樣百分之百言論自由但是我不容許任何政府或個人假借民主的名義或抗中保台口號的名義或國家安全的名義在沒有法律授權法律明確性的情況下去侵害人民在憲法第11條的言論自由的基本人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1396.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1418.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那就是看誰是人民啊我們現在這次處理的幾位 他們都不是我們那個 副主委我已經說了 我一開始就說我不講個案那我剛所謂的百分之百的言論自由我絕對沒有排除掉所謂的人民所以我跟你講 我從年輕二十幾歲的時候就在 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1419.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1445.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
十幾歲跟著野百合學院二十幾歲跟著廢書刑法一百條我一路這樣走過來那我們以前追求的是什麼對啊那今天鄭楠榮變成很多人的提款機但是他還是我心裡面我覺得我堅持的理想啊那你今天你要扣這個帽子扣別人講一些有沒有我不是不太能接受但我也尊重各位的的發言的內容鄭楠榮是前輩啊但是他並不是神主派 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1446.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1451.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我沒有說要繩子款 我說大家不要把它當作提款機來用好 那謝謝各位 |