| IVOD_ID |
15999 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15999 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-12T08:31:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-12T12:54:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:22:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db38aadac80e2e3f80d6a76734f739918219186e52af124432f7bb005c3c07a2cf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、國家科學及技術委員會首長、數位發展部首長、教育部首長就「為掌握生成式AI等關鍵技術帶來的產業革命機會，台灣要如何深化AI生態系及充實AI人才與產業AI化，促動台灣產業數位轉型與運用AI賦能升級，擴展產業發展，打造智慧未來」進行報告，並備質詢。【6月12日及6月13日兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:03 - 12:54:00 |
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| transcript.pyannote[2946].speaker |
SPEAKER_28 |
| transcript.pyannote[2946].start |
15795.55409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[2946].end |
15796.49909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[2947].speaker |
SPEAKER_28 |
| transcript.pyannote[2947].start |
15797.66346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[2947].end |
15797.79846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[2948].speaker |
SPEAKER_28 |
| transcript.pyannote[2948].start |
15797.93346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[2948].end |
15802.03409375 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
360.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
361.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
955.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
955.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
其中： |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1578.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1578.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
全體委員會主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1628.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1632.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
全體委員會主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1754.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1760.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們現在主法定人數現在正式開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議意思錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1773.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1795.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年6月5日星期三9時至13時40分地點紅樓10會議室出席委員、林代化委員等14人略席委員、洪孟楷委員等26人略席人員、經濟部部長、郭志輝及相關人員、主席、邱昭吉委員、易雲 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1796.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1822.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
報告事項一 宣讀上次會議事務決定確定二 邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況並備質詢經濟部部長郭志輝報告後委員林大化等27人提出質詢均由經濟部郭部長及鄉外人即席答覆決定一 登記方委員除在不在場外其餘均與發言完畢詢答結束二 委員李博義所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1822.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1829.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
三 書面執行案未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並赴日本會 散會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1832.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1836.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、國家科學及技術委員會首長、數位發展部首長、教育部首長就:「為掌握生成式AI等關鍵技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1857.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1859.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
及擴展產業發展打造智慧未來進行報告並備諮詢 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1878.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1906.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
好 那我們今日議程排定是為掌握生成式的AI等關鍵技術．帶來的產業革命機會．台灣要如何的來深化AI生態系以及充實AI人才與產業AI化．促進台灣產業數位轉型與運用AI賦能的升級．擴展產業的發展打造智慧未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1907.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1930.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
進行報告以及備諮詢。」我們在進行詢問之前首先要來介紹今天列席的部會首長我們首先歡迎國發會主委 劉主委我們國發會發展管理基金的代理執行秘書 汪執行秘書 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1933.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1960.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們經濟部 郭部長我們國科會副主委 林副主委接下來我們書發部的政事 林政事接下來還有我們教育部我們的葉政事歡迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1962.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1964.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
來接下來我們要請國發會劉靜欽主委來進行報告請 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1981.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1992.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
主席、各位委員、各位在場的記者大家好今天很榮幸代表國安會來到貴會、貴委員會針對促進AI產業發展進行報告與質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1998.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2027.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
AI這個議題其實也不是今天才有的在之前就已經開始發生了但是這幾年的生成式AI帶動了一個浪潮這個浪潮看起來會讓整個世界有一個很大的進化跟進步因此其實政府在112年就已經看到了所以在112年我們訂定了台灣AI行動計畫2.0也成立了這個精創台灣方案這兩個方案都在進行中 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2028.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2051.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那之後在我們總統的競選的政見裡面加上卓院長整合出來的希望工程也有創新經濟、智慧國家兩個重要的政策發展也就造成我們今天朝向創新經濟的發展尤其在信賴無產業裡面講得很清楚那兩個很重要的核心關鍵就是第一個是半導體第二個就是我們的AI的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2053.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2068.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這兩個發展很明顯會成為台灣在未來經濟成長最重要的兩支支柱與核心為了強化這個支柱與核心本會從整個生態系重新整理在市場、能力、人才、資本、法規這五個構面 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2070.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2096.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
進行強化希望讓台灣的產業能夠抓到這一次的脈絡的動機機會然後往前走那這個機會的市場的部分我們是用微笑曲線來做一個分析我們微笑曲線大概是一個弧形分成三段最底端的是製造也就是過去台灣非常強的一塊那目前我們在伺服器的製造甚至在一些主機板等等的應用我們已經到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2097.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2113.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
大概全球有90%的市佔率簡單的講這個世界沒有台灣就很難看到server很難看到AI server的產生這個關鍵的部位抓到之後我們往上游供應鏈走的部分從目前散熱的模組也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2114.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2131.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
到連接器﹐各種電子零組件﹐到半導體的生產﹐到設計﹐台灣也取得了關鍵位置再往前一走上去是Sensor跟Data Collect的部分是我們還要再加強的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2131.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2150.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以在Research的部分從物理學、光學這些地方雷射等等我們會希望在這個地方再強化讓我們在前端的Sensor取得Data的部分再運作回來的話它是一個供應鏈更強化完整的部分另外還有一塊就是整個Server做完以後供應出去是應用面 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2151.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2180.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個應用面來自於解決方案從智慧的解決方案到智慧人員到智慧的醫療生活的應用、智慧生活的應用等等都是一個很大的市場這塊市場是台灣目前比較少著墨的那估計整個市場大概佔全球來講大概有2.3兆美元一年的市場那我們目前市佔率應該是在千分之一左右所以這一塊是我們會很強化發展的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2180.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2196.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這樣的話讓台灣在整個AI的這個價值鏈裡面都能夠有一定的發展機會那這個在執行的部分在AI運用的部分是我們會跟這個數碼部一起在努力往這條路走那另外在 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2197.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2210.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
國科會會負責在零件跟經濟部會在零件端跟研究端的發展然後經濟部會在製造端當然教育部跟勞動部都會在人力上面提供比較大的協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2212.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2229.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
整個市場看到之後依據市場的開發我們協助廠商之後其實我們要建構後面的幾個關鍵的生態系統那第一個比較大的關鍵系統是來自於人才我們可以看得到輝達過來就號稱他一次就要找一千人 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2229.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2243.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那這裡面形成一個很巨大的壓力就是過去可能整個台灣的市場在考慮上面永遠不知道下一個廠商會要幾千人那這個是永遠在追逐那全世界目前都遇到人才荒都在努力解決這個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2245.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2268.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那這個方向我們現在朝幾個方向做從比較短期到中期長期都開始在進行那這個進行也是兩年前就開始在發展那目前我們會從人才會有Build and Buy就是從自己培育跟從外面獵財、攬財這兩個方向來做那自己培育我們目前是從政府、學校、社會三個構面在發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2270.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2297.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那在攬財的部分呢我們現在正在盤點世界各國主要競爭國的他的人才吸引條件那我們必須創造比他們更好的吸引條件才有機會把這群人吸引過來、流過來那所以我們也正在規劃中那以政府的部分目前是做得比較多的我們政府跟學校兩個地方合計起來在今年2024年預計會有10萬9千7百位數位相關人才投入市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2298.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2326.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
投入市場。」那這裡面最大的一塊是來自教育部教育部大概會有8.3萬那除了有2萬多人來自於這個數位相關科系之外教育部也很積極地推動STEM就是讓非資訊科系非數位科系的學生可以透過學程的方式去培養自己這方面的能力那這個地方培養出來的人力現在也是非常多大概有一年可以有6萬2千人 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2329.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2336.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
同時,國發會也跟教育部學校合作,做了很多企業專班,培養人才發展。社會方面,從勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2345.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2359.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個國科會等單位也都有在做這方面人才的協助與發展那這樣的話目前來看的話在短期內還算是可以使用但是比較會大的落差是來自於尖端特殊 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2360.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2362.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
特殊領域需要的人才。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2383.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2404.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
企業的部分我們也會大幅的去協助企業來做大幅的培育那早年其實整個資訊行業每個領域外表看起來是叫AI往裡面一展下去它可能有數百個領域那數百個領域的人才我們就要協助企業去進行發展那另外對於勞動部也對於中小企業提供了相當的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2406.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2421.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這個補助方案也會讓中小企業可以比較輕鬆地去培育這樣的人才所以我們從輔佐大型的企業到中型、小型企業目前都有考慮到也在努力當中當然在一個全球的競爭上面我們還是希望奮力地往前走 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2422.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2448.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那另外一部分就是我們也開始創造這個有利條件之外我們開始在持續鬆綁法規我們希望這個法規的鬆綁能讓更多的人留在台灣那更多的人願意到台灣來那我們把這些誘因整理完之後呢我們也對於這個整理完之後其實我們會還要進一步的跟企業用企業的方法來做什麼叫企業的方法呢就是我們從過去設立網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2451.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2459.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
然後放寬法規然後培養人才然後等待這些人才進來到我們到不同的國家去投放廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2460.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2489.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以我們會開始進入精準廣告的投放到我們特定的美國或者是中歐一帶我們目標的市場開始去吸引這些人然後透過精準廣告的投放讓他們可以想要來台灣的人或是想要到海外發展的人可以找到台灣的訊息那透過我們網站的吸引來走進來所以我們會強化我們在Talent台灣這個Program跟網站上的發展那另外在資金面的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2491.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2502.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們會在融資跟投資兩面同時下手。」那投資的部分我們目前跟這個出發部我們稍微有一個討論我們計劃曠業100億AI的創新專業投資那由出發部來執行做 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2509.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2522.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
做大幅的投資專注在AI領域的發展：同時我們也會強化國際基金在相關領域的發展讓這個資金的面向會拉得更大我們也同時希望找金管會來放寬法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2525.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2541.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
讓保險資金也可以進到這個領域創造更多的投資的量能另外我們也會強化在我們目前在整個被投資標的5的改善這個標的5的改善包括我們跟GaragePlus等等這些單位在合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2542.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2559.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
所以這次在黃仁勳在台大演講他在他的背板上打出了很多公司裡面有5家就是我們投資輔導的公司被在黃仁勳的那個演講裡面出來那我們裡面也有2家是我們合作的夥伴那我們共同在培養 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2559.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2576.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那另外在融資的方面我們也會在這方面跟銀行協調希望給予更多的資金進到這個市場讓資金更充裕再投資更方便另外在研發上面的合作我們現在也積極的去建立一個Tech Hub |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2577.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2597.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所謂Tech Hub就是把一個Hub把各種相關的科技從AI的發展領域到先進科技發展領域到創新創業領域我們集中在一個區那這個生態區包括也有住宿的部分去整合起來那其中AI的部分目前是我們協助速發部開始在規劃工建的部分那如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2599.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2628.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我們將來就是很快的會去協助審核完成這個部分讓它盡快可以運作起來那這個運作起來的話就可以跟國外合作那目前我們也找了一些學校希望跟國外進行整個AI的合作因為在美國這個領域是比較新的所以譬如說我們跟台大目前大概在合作台大跟伊利諾那在德州這些地方的學校都有進行相關的合作我們希望去進行產學的合作一起帶動所以讓我們的研發可以更完整那同時呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2629.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2645.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
當然我想經濟部也會做相關的法規更進一步的鬆綁那這樣的話呢就讓我們的研發的量能可以拉得比較高一些那繼續往前邁進那同時我們在學校方面我們也投資了投資了資金跟企業合作那讓什麼讓老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2648.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2657.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
的待遇不再是受限於政府的規定：可以有更高的金額去吸引到比較有經驗的產業的業士進來然後透過實務跟學校兩邊的產學合作培養比較務實的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2663.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2678.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
另外在市場面我們除了去發展創新創業領域我們希望大力投資在AI的新創跟轉型跟創業這三個領域上面我們都會引入國發基金來協助之外我們也會透過我們投資的創新創業去協助百工百業的帶動 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2684.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2705.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
尤其是讓這些單位去協助傳產跟中小企業原因是傳產跟中小企業過去在人才戰爭上面他處於比較低的弱勢那我們引導我們的新創團隊或是創業比較成熟的或是一些企業的轉型團隊轉到這裡面來那透過資金的協助跟誘導讓他進來之後呢透過財務政策的誘導讓他進來之後呢就會讓這個產業比較容易有機會讓他的產品開始進入比較AI的世界 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2714.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2726.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
也可以把關鍵零組件改善比如說在工具機的關鍵零組件我們過去仰賴於日本跟德國那如果我們好好的發展的話可以取代下來那第二個把大量的AI導進這個產業裡面也會讓它的整個產品的競爭力會提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2730.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2752.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那我們都會朝這幾個地方去發展那我們同時也積極地會在東京跟矽谷都設立我們的創新中心那這個創新中心的主要目的是每一屆台灣的創新創業團隊能夠走入全球也跟著試著也把美國、日本等地的創新團隊引進台灣進行一個交流合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2753.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2777.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這些合作都在進行中我們的新放的基地也預計今年下半年會設置完成不論是在美國或是在矽谷或是在東京我們都會盡快地把它做起來這樣的話就會形成一個比較完整的生態系從市場面看得精準 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2778.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2796.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
從這個人才面大力的扶植跟培育那再從這個資金面我們提供足夠的資金與發展然後在研發面跟市場面我們都把它可以投資下去的話我想這個產業的發展就很快可以實現政府信賴產業跟創新經濟的發展也可以帶動這個產業的發展我的報告到此了 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2802.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2808.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好 謝謝我們國防會主委的報告那接下來我們請經濟部 郭部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2836.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2858.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
主席、各位委員大家好陳孟貴委員的邀請就AI相關主題來進行報告那麼敬請各位委員先進不吝視教那麼首先跟各位報告就是AI人工智慧發展的趨勢剛才我想這個劉主委也說了很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2859.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2875.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
隨著OpenAI於2022年推出的CHOP GPT﹐AI技術進入一個新時代﹐預計將啟動新一波的AI應用大爆發﹐台灣具備半導體與資通訊的產業優勢﹐是支持AI發展的關鍵要素﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2880.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2902.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
今年臺北國際電腦展Computex中全球AI科技大廠如輝達、超維、英特爾、高通、美超維以及國內聯發科等重要廠商的高層都出現足證台灣已經躍居為全球AI發展的關鍵核心 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2904.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2928.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那麼我們要談這個培育國內所需的AI人才呢那麼在這個全球面臨AI應用成長的爆發期台灣必須要加速推動AI產業創新以創臥巨大商機並帶動企業全面數位轉型為此培育各行業AI人才刻不容返本人已經在貴委員會經濟部業務報告中宣誓 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2933.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2958.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
將在4年內培育20萬名AI人才將涵蓋大語言模型訓練與微調等人才加速百工百業的AI應用人才培育並推動AI人才認證以符合AI發展的趨勢期待透過跨部會合作達成共同目標滿足AI時代的人才需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2960.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2985.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
台灣專屬生成式AI核心技術是可以看到現在國際AI科技大廠陸續推出生成式AI工具但主要以一般知識的問答、英文資料為主對於產業專業知識如半導體製程、我國的金融法規乃至於繁體中文的運用 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2987.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3012.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
就無法完全滿足使用者的需求另外,國際大廠的AI服務都需要使用者把資料上傳到雲端對企業會有機密資料外洩的風險本部將建立專屬的生成式AI核心技術運用台灣在製造和服務產業豐富的知識和資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3014.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3037.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
打造出台灣產業專屬模型讓AI服務可以在企業內部使用以提升資安等級而且懂得企業想要知道的特定知識協助業者實現產業AI化提升產業競爭力引進國際大廠來台設立研發中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3042.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3060.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
本部積極引進國際領先企業來臺設立研發中心這不僅能帶來最先進的技術也能讓台灣的廠商進入全球創新價值鏈同時吸引頂尖人才來臺促進台灣人才的培訓與升級 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3062.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3080.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
這些國際人才來此學習台灣AI發展的經驗回國以後能夠貢獻母國促進雙方科技研發的雙贏攜手共創商機今年本部把握盛大的臺北國際電腦展的機會與多家國際大廠深入洽談合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3085.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3112.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
未來將會陸續引進更多外資企業進駐台灣相關合作內容將在適當的時間向各位委員報告輔導百工百業導入AI本部積極整合產業需求與各方資源開通法人與工協會支付業者合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3113.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3138.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
推動AI技術在各行各業的普及提升產業競爭力與數位轉型具體措施包括一、擴散生成式AI核心技術與領域專屬模型提供跨部會與GAI共通平台上的應用協助中小企業數位轉型二、透過應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3141.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3153.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
驗證以及大大小方式擴散普及﹐輔導百工百業運用生成式AI﹐建立產業導入AI資運﹐透過專家顧問輔導企業導入成熟AI工具﹐促進 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3161.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3187.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
製造業AI普及加速將運用產創條例十之一創新租稅優惠修正案提高產業對AI應用的投資預計在117年製造業AI應用普及率從目前的12.3%提升到50%最後經濟部最重要的任務就是活絡台灣經濟與產業發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3190.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3219.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
本部將致力於推動人工智慧在台灣產業化且持續發展建立具備AI算力的超級電腦此外也將培養產業所需人才讓人工智慧在台灣有更多創新的面貌更重要的是要推動AI在百工百業的運用強化競爭力讓台灣成為世界的支柱讓台灣成為人工智慧島 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3220.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3241.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
期盼各位委員對於本部施政指正視教本會期送請大院審議的相關議案亦懇請委員鼎力資助最後敬祝各位委員身體健康萬事如意以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3246.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3257.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
好 謝謝郭部長的報告那我們先來處理議事錄現在已足法定人數三位請問剛剛所宣讀的議事錄有沒有意見好 那我們議事錄確認那現在呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3262.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3280.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
這個我們還有國科會以及數發部還有教育部的書面報告我們請委員自行參閱並刊登公報謝謝那現在我們要進行詢答在委員詢答前主席台依照慣例做以下幾項的宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3281.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3301.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
每位委員發言的時間本會委員6分鐘加必要時加2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘10點半截止發言登記那我要拜託我們委員時間掌控一下因為今天登記的委員非常的熱情謝謝那我們現在請登記第一位的林黛樺委員請做發言有請國發會主委我們請國發會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3314.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3335.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
主委我就先看你的簡報你第一頁當中去講到說您報告有台灣AI行動2.0跟精創台灣方案這未來的9年那我要提醒你的你的精創台灣方案當中補助都在優勢產業也就是在最基層的硬體的部分它在終端的相關的運算中心包括相關的運用領域是沒有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3336.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3354.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
所以我提醒你這是在你竟然是今年開始你也放在你的這個簡報當中表示你是很重視的那包括你的台灣AI行動2.0這當中的執行計畫但既然你先來我要拜託你等一下我質詢的時候也會講你們的計畫方案也講得很好包括今年你們也編列119億 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3357.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3372.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
那我要拜託你要重新的來檢視它是不是真的符合AI的運作再來你的人才培訓當中你花了這個兩大部分一個是鼓勵資訊人才包括這個協助企業人才的佈局 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3373.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3391.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我就根據你的企業人才布局有一點我不知道你們能克服光是你說要3、4、5到國際的點財、列財要參照新加坡、日本、韓國要盤點我們的居住租稅等光是台灣個人所得最高克40% |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3393.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3401.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
然後你要獵財來你知道新加坡獵財來之後他們在60天以下來這邊的優秀人60天以下免稅60天到182天是課15%的個人所得稅如果你多於180天以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3411.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3414.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
6個月以上是淨所得課22%總收入課15%公司董事一律課22%我不知道您能不能去說服財政部光是你的列財你就列了三 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3430.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3434.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
2、3、4、5一個列才當中的3、4、5多大的拼譜5項有3項是講到這個東西好本席提點你那再來本席針對今天講到AI那我也認為國發會當則不讓我這邊針對幾個面向跟你一起討論包括台灣人工智慧的全球排名第二個產業結構第三個針對產業能做什麼以及垂直領域的專家才是成功成敗的關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3455.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3481.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
當然 跨部會的協作 國發會是當然當則不讓當然本席最後有具體的要求那在我覺得爬出了是一個在英國有這樣的一個雜誌這個Total is Media它針對全球AI的排名我們全球整體AI的指數我們排名26新加坡排名3韓國排名6那在政府投入的部分上面有兩張表 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3483.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3488.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
總排名的部分是左邊這張表那右邊有講到左邊這邊也講到政府的投入我們在2022年政府的投入是全球42名2023年我們是全球33名好再看右邊那張圖他所講的是我們在研究的部分我們全球排名36發展51規模38所以我要講的你會覺得落差很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3506.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3526.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
哇我們的這個所以我們的晶圓代工我們的伺服器全球排行數一數二再加上這個AI教父教母來了現在離台之後這麼的風光其實它證明了一件事情我們的基礎產業是好的但是你看我們全球AI的應用包括政府的投入是這麼的低好 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3528.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3532.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
所以本席認為在你們優勢產業當中已經投入這麼多資源了重點你們也講到AI應用在各行各業才是AI創造價值的核心關鍵好本席用這一張圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3544.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3564.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
這個你們現在有基礎層、中間層、應用層你們現在所有的資源都在右下方基礎層我們從最基層AI晶片運算晶圓的代工伺服器中間的雲端運算中心是我們現在各縣市都在爭取的在AI核心技術當中從基層、中層到最後的應用軟體的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3565.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3580.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
好這才是應用好那另外還AI應用的價值鏈從下面的我們的預先訓練微調啦對於這個我們的晶片當中的所有的這個資料標注等啊以及我們現在你們也花很大規模的在生成式的AI模型但 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3581.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3602.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我今天要有AI價值創造的核心關鍵就是在左上角的各行各業的應用所以你看你的資源配置你是放在最右下端的在晶片代工跟伺服器頂多現在是這個國際的投資在雲端資訊中心但是我們要做的是左上角這件事情那就要盤點你的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3604.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3618.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
你的執行的科目有沒有符合這個東西有沒有符合呢好那個人工產業可以做什麼本席特別針對幾個領域在醫療、保健、金融服務、製造業、零售、電子、教育、農業在醫療的部分我有幾個案例速發部今天速發部的副署長副署長有來我之前就有一個陳情案那我就練給我就呢陳述給大家聽他是被駁回了來跟我哭訴說我們的速發部根本就不懂AI |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3634.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3648.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這是眼科眼體鏡進行視網膜神經及血管攝影結合了失智症的患者有發生原血管跟神經萎縮病的近症進行匹配也就是我單純的眼科醫生我只會做眼體鏡的視網膜的神經可是這個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3651.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3657.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
其實在我們教學醫院榮總長跟已經有研究在醫院內有研究他其實這樣的數據分區是可以跟我私自站可以匹配在一塊這都有教學醫院的一個研究他希望來跟政府爭取經費說我能擴大到醫院外的人民來蒐集更大的這樣的一個數據來做AI的匹配結果被你們打回來後來我瞭解了結果原來你們審查委員是有眼科經由眼科專業根本沒有AI產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3680.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3693.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
也沒有這個老年失智的跨領域你知道這個早期預防可以減少大量的這個健保支出又可以造福多少個家庭光是這個失智症的文明病我光是做一個眼睛的檢查我就可以去跟早期發現我的這個文明病失智症他可以減緩可以提早預防減緩他的發病 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3702.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3717.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
好包括金融我們說詐騙今天我們都是政府叫被動啊我發現這個是不是我打電話到打詐中心啊我被動的接受人民的陳情啊但是如果我有AI導入的話我整個這個欺詐的檢測其實他只要導入的時候我的人民他不需要打了 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3723.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3753.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
只要他要再做他的行為的時候就已經政府的這個AI的模型已經套路了告訴你欸這個就是這就是告訴你喔政府告訴你你這是詐騙喔甚至本席一直主張的我們的農業智慧決策連農業決策能夠要都要智慧的精準農業講坦白的就是農業優生學我們的農業預測等好這個就是等本席就是提供給你在現在符合民意當中你AI的應用面包括你的預算為什麼你要 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3753.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3778.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
重新的檢視好 我們這個人工智慧啊它也不是萬能有優點缺點優點就是它能短時間內處理大量的數據提高工作效能 節省時間成本在作業精準度上是堪稱完美經過專家系統的定義過的作業可以全天候24小時準確的執行我的指定作業缺點是什麼AI它只是一個工具這句話是重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3779.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3797.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
AI只是個工具所以它缺乏創造力它的技術還沒有辦法具備人類的創造力跟想像力無法創造新的東西所以儘管AI可以通過大量的數據訓練來提升自身的智能水平但是還是需要相關專家明確的定義才行好 這句話的結果也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3798.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3823.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
台灣人工智慧產業當中你們講到人才專家很可惜你們就講到法人及學研當中包括說你們要到外面獵財我也沒意見但是你光是突破那個租稅的部分就請你好好的跟財政部研究了好我在這邊具體主張你這個一定要有各行各業業界的實務專家導入你的專家人才庫這是本席的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3824.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3846.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
主委就在你在籌組各部會今天來了好多各部會你們的專家一定要各產業的實務專家才有可能成為專家好那在這邊呢我這個也是上週我針對經濟部質詢的已經明確杜絕我們紅色供應鏈下我又要在怎麼的發展各製造業的AI升級的輔導杜絕紅色供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3849.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3870.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
這也提醒給我們的這個主委跨部會的協作當國發會就當則不讓了本席我就以這個案例國家農業治理的一個智慧化我就以我的選區裡面的這個石斑魚我會舉這個案例是因為中國拒絕我石斑魚進口到中國的時候所以我就替我自己的產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3871.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3877.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
找了速發部他就是呢這個速發部協助下確實補助這個經費做了AI的相關的定序數據的收集所以這是這個速發部支持但是這個計畫是從哪裡來呢誰發想呢是我教育部是我一個科技大學的一個學者他的一個團隊所以他把他技術來找我的這個農民這是農業部應該輔導的 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3900 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3913.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那但是呢跟經濟部有什麼關係因為呢我們不能輸到中國啦我們就走南向所以他就輸到東南亞那所以呢這又跨了農業部跨了書發部跟經濟部跟教育部所以你今天AI要完成當然是要跨部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3915.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3930.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我的具體建議四點第一個盤點現行狀態第二個盤點各單位使用人工智慧的可行性第三個建立專家人才系統第四個加速普惠百工百業我舉兩張圖怎麼叫盤點現行的狀態這一張圖我辦公室這樣盤整出來了光是你們賓的這個AI2.0你在簡報上講的119億這個當中你就要去盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3944.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3964.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
好 盤點什麼呢到底目前我有關智慧化應用的經費跟計畫狀況是否都適合導入人工智慧智慧化的應用並不代表所有的人工智慧但是你要專門在AI的這個工具上的應用你要在你智慧編了119億的這個2.0行動的2.0當中台灣AI行動2.0當中你就要去盤點了 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3970.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3989.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
好那第二個盤點各單位就針對政府部門你自己就要以身作則哪些是中央單位可以建立封閉式跟開放式的人工智慧剛才譬如說開放式就打炸就好了我的警政署你們可以協助警政署在開放他們的這個開放式的哪些是一個詐騙的相關的事先預測 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3992.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4001.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這人民超有感的我不用再被動打電話給警察去不用打電話到打詐中心的他任何的行為我直接在金融系統當中他要會的時候我就告訴他了他或者他樣態的一個告知啊第三建立專栽人才庫本席在這邊重點是各產業領域涵蓋各產業的業界人才這我舉一個例子比如說我在補習班我這邊工作22年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4017.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4022.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
好 那你說要AI啊一定是這個補習班內的長期的資深員工譬如說我有一個資訊部門由我在這個補習班內的資深的資訊部門的人來受你的訓練啊而不是這樣才有可能成為專家如果你從外部他怎麼可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4034.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4049.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
他怎麼可能會是一個對補習班瞭解或者是對我這個螺絲工具區瞭解的人他來設計他的AI呢不可能吶包括我的高雄市當中的所有金屬扣件包括我們的離岸風電等等相關所有中小企業都遍佈整個我高雄市那你怎麼當然是從他們裡面的資訊部門去訓練所以你的國內人才的訓練是要從這邊來 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4064.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4080.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
好那當然我們普惠百工百業的部分與公共建設這個是你要公建的角度這是因為一個公建就是四年計畫所以針對國內產業中小企業的組成特性提供主題式的計畫補助人工智慧導入並採審查重觀審查和重演為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4083.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4091.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
因為中小企業有910萬的從業人口半導體29萬的人口如果你再繼續補助優勢產業半導體就29萬有感中小企業913萬人無感重點就在這邊好 您簡單回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4100.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4101.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
接下來我們請陳廷飛委員請做詢談 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4134.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4136.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
謝謝主席 教委我們請主委我們再請國發委主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4145.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4173.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
委員長主委我想我第一次也在這個地方我跟你談的就是AI的研發中心也就是黃仁勳執行長他一直希望就是說在台南在高雄有一個AI研發中心所以我們也希望說我們的國發會要怎麼樣去掌握這樣的訊息然後我們要怎麼去push然後把這樣的一個所謂AI的研發中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4176.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4202.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我們也希望現在擴大變成生態園區這是我們現在政府所非常重要的一個指標叫生態園區可是這個生態園區我相信在台南的部分我們有很多包括綠能科技產業園區也就是在沙崙然後再加上我們的南科 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4203.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4229.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那再加上我們目前所有的一些電一些水利的部分在整個的條件當中我們認為在台南是非常適當的那可是我們的AI生態園區到底我們現在我們的目標在哪裡重點在哪裡預算在哪裡速發部一下子說要實體一下子說可以虛擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4230.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4245.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
然後呢國科會說他們都可以配合因為他們本來在南科園區就有這樣的一個所謂相關AI的產業他們沒有問題那國發會呢你們的態度是如何你們的態度是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4249.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4277.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我們的態度現在是積極的跟數發部跟國科會我們一起在合作那台南的部分的確像委員講的我想委員我很佩服您一直在爭取台南然後也一直在把台南的優勢不斷的讓我們清楚所以我們現在感受的也很深那我們會去在最後評估我們現在在評估階段我們一定不會忘記委員特別一直跟我們銷售的台南的好處我們會認真的來考慮這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4278.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4301.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
因為現在整個護國神山的所有它的機能還有它所有的零星產業基本上都落腳在台南而且我們有我們的腹地所以如果在這樣的一個前提之下我覺得我們的態度要更確認說到底AI的生態園區它是要實體還是虛擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4304.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4331.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
實體跟虛擬不一樣我們現在是這樣子實體跟虛擬都會同時存在的原因是在AI的世界裡面它必須串聯全世界所以我們除了會建立實體的中心之外我們也會我想數位發展部也在積極的建立一個國際的脈絡的聯網包括讓沒辦法進入園區的一些單位也都可以參與進來變成一個整合性的一個虛實整合的一個AI生態園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4332.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4343.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那土地重要嗎?土地重要就是有私底的地方可以做更好的討論那所以這兩者會同時並行土地重要經費呢?那經費來源呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4348.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4365.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
經費來源是第一個國發基金我們現在正在作業中如果得到核准的話我們會有100億投到這個領域來所以我們現在預估在AI生態園區在實體的部分我們預計要投入的是國發基金100億的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4366.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4385.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
而且100億主要是在投資創新創業就是進駐廠商還有在虛擬進駐廠商的投資那硬體的部分其實現在因為公建預算正在審核當中那我們也請各單位盡快的提出來進入我們的審核程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4386.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4408.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
所以主委你的意思是說國發基金這100億我們是希望創新創業進入到這樣的一個實體的生態園區然後在其他各部會的我們還會再去另外編列相關的預算然後進入到這個AI的方向是不是所以不只100億 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4409.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4435.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
不只,它這個工件預算是另計那現在在等實體,我們是審核單位所以我們有幾個單位在規劃上面從國科會跟數發部他們會送上這樣的一個工件計畫那在於實體的所以國科會是負責實體然後數發部是負責虛擬,是這樣意思嗎?沒有,他們都有,都會有實體的運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4436.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4447.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
都有實體的運作那你要了解速發部的速發部最近他所講的並不是如此他所講的是他要把實體變虛擬也許是不是可以讓速發部次長來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4454.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4467.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
到底你們現在的態度是什麼如果以主委所說的我們是實體然後跟虛擬同步並進可是你們最近在媒體當中所講的是被誤解說實體要變虛擬你們負責的是虛擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4472.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4478.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
是跟委員報告因為在政府的分工上面國發會這邊會負責包含台灣的硬體產業跟軟體產業而我們數發部負責的是軟體產業然後軟體產業一個特性所以你們數發部負責的就是在虛擬的部分嗎是實體用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4490.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4510.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
實體的部分因為我們現在重點是在於生態而不在於園區那軟體產業的特性是第一個就是上下游產業之間並沒有零組件的運輸的需求所以上下游的這些產業並不需要在同一個地方再來就是說在軟體產業現在遠距上班也都是一件常見的現象所以我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4511.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4530.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
所以市長你的意思就是說是你們數發部負責就是虛擬的部分是所以沒有實體的部分是對不對好那主委所以就有一點不一樣囉所以我們現在看到的確實是如此嘛數發部從實體變虛擬好那現在實體聚落的部分實體生態園區到底是誰在負責國科會嗎國科會也講的有一點保守欸他說我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4542.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4563.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
這個產業園區我們都可以配合他們是就他們目前目前的狀態那我們如果依照主委所講的我們是要做到我們是要做到我們除了國發基金以外我們還有公建計劃這是沒工的所以我們的方向到底怎麼拿捏來 國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4568.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4570.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
實體的部分你們負責的嗎?跟委員報告基本上我們還是會以沙輪 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4576.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4577.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4600.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4615.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
南部擴散目前都還在規劃中因為沙崙它有中央研究院南部院區然後又有你們國科會相關的一些所謂研發的地點 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4616.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4643.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
所以我們看到的是綠能科技產業園區在沙崙我們把它這一塊土地放在這裡是很可惜的還有成大我們的相關還有交通大學這些研發的能量都在裡面但是並沒有發揮啊所以我為什麼說要爭取AI的生態園區在台南當然就是在我們的沙崙這個區塊嘛從過去到現在我們看到的是能量沒有發揮嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4644.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4660.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那如果是這樣子的話我們再加上有些隱形產業我們必須是實體跟虛擬要並進嘛是不是一個負責實體一個負責虛擬嘛這樣才對嘛然後國發會是know-how嘛他做串聯嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4661.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4677.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
是不是這樣子所以我們期待的AI生態園區除了有像黃仁勳執行長所說的他必須是AI的研發中心他可以併進來嘛對不對他可以把1加1大於2嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4678.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4696.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
如果我們有這樣的一個生態園區他在投注他們的一些原本預期的計劃跟目標對我們來講是加分了所以我覺得說AI生態園區在整個地理位置經費當中最適合的就是台南就在沙崙 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4697.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4715.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
這非常的清楚主委謝謝委員我會負責來整合兩個部會的結果然後再跟你們報告再拜託那還有一個部分您的誠意我們是一直感受很深對因為我覺得我們臺南現缺的就是一個整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4716.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4738.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
如果把它整合起來我們的能量是無限大我們有那個條件但是缺了一個整合那我相信今天有一點我覺得還是要澄清清楚我們請這個經濟部長就是說外媒說台灣缺電會衝擊全球的產業基本上我覺得今天起碼台灣的能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4739.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4762.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
我們的經濟能量、企業能量是被外媒所看到的這個對我們來講是好的可是因為被看到大家會擔心我們是不是會有缺電的問題部長我們應該準備好了尤其我們現在投注AIAI的用電非常的大那這個部分呢我們準備好了沒報告委員準備好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4762.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4789.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
準備好了所以我們不會像外媒所講的會因為有這個缺電而影響到我們整個全球產業因為大家已經把台灣變成是一個全球產業包括半導體的一個指標囉這對我們來講其實是一個非常棒的可是他們擔心我們要把他擔心把他斷絕台灣電的部分沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4790.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4812.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
是不是這樣?是的,缺電影響全球是事實但是我們沒有缺電我們沒有缺電,我們準備好了對不對?我們在準備,應該是好的好,我想AI產業如果進到我們在整個整合的體系當中電、水,它永遠都是最重要再麻煩部長,謝謝好,謝謝接下來我們請邱毅文委員請做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4834.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4857.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
謝謝昭緯我現在是不是請一下經濟部跟教育部好了好 郭部長跟教育部正次好 這個來 部長好 郭部長這個我想從您上個禮拜來做業務報告裡頭您有談到 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4861.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4874.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
4年之內要培育20萬個AI人才所以台灣大概是全世界少數搭上這個第一波的AI浪潮的國家但我們其實看得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4875.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4897.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
就實際面來說台灣在所謂的半導體的先進製程在AI伺服器的這個製造其實我們是有優勢但是在AI相關的IC設計或生成式AI應用服務的這些人才上面其實台灣的優勢是不大的您同意我的看法嗎同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4899.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4920.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
如果是這樣我們今天要來談這個未來搭上這一波AI浪潮之後首先要談的是要培育20萬名AI人才請問一下部長這20萬名AI人才是全部是自己培育嗎還是你有包括一部分是從國外攬才進來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4922.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4946.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我們大概在這個LM的部分必須要從國外攬產所以我有請來台灣投資的這些比較大的國外廠商我都告訴他們你最少要帶一半的人才進來所以像這個輝達它要有1000位工程師所以我們就強烈的要求它要有帶500位工程師進來可是輝達現在大概只能帶10%的人進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4949.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4958.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那個是過去我後來有跟他們在溝通如果未來是這樣那經濟部就不是培育20萬名AI人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4960.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4982.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
應該是培育加攬財對不對因為我為什麼會請教育部上來是今天很可惜沒有辦法聽到教育部的這個報告但是我看了一下教育部的書面你們所有的AI教育這一些數位的教育通常都是從高等教育才開始做起包括你的在職專班包括你的碩博士班等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4983.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5003.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
比如說你110年開始透過國家重點領域產學合作培育人才創新條例要招攬972名碩士博士生就我看了你們這個所謂的招攬名額要達到20萬名四年內根本做不到那請問教育部有什麼方式嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5005.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5020.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我看到韓國韓國他們現在是要從國民教育裡頭去推廣AI數位教育2025年開始韓國就會在中小學導入AI數位教科書那請問台灣呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5022.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5046.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
市長跟委員報告我想我們在AI人才培育這一塊我們過去一個非常重要的就是我們透過國家重點領域產學合作及人才培育創新條例我們有重點科技學院這重點科技學院十三家裡面有其中五家是跟人工智慧有關的我們每年在這裡面我們大概有 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5046.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5059.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
培養大概972位教授博士對嘛你一年才培養900多名嘛那要達到部長講的20萬名那個差距是很大的還沒講嗎還沒講剛才講是說博士那我們大學部這一邊的話因為我們有這個每年我們這個有這個大專院校 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5067.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5069.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
智慧科技及資訊安全碩士人才計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5098.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5118.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
跟委員報告我們在這個教育部現在在研擬這個數位教學指引這個預計在10月會出來那這個指引其實蠻全面包括說我們會告訴校長如果像一些跟不管跟數位跟AI的導入要怎麼做然後老師還有家長10月會出來數位教學指引那預計什麼時候會開始實施其實它出來以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5121.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5148.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
下個學期就開始了下個學期就會開始實施所以這個是一個非常重大的教育的改變我覺得教育部應該是要好好的規劃然後要好好的宣導我們有這個所謂的生生用平板的這樣的一個很好的政策所以你們在推廣所謂的AI數位教科書的這個課綱其實對他們來講應該是要更快上手所以我期待如果是有一個這麼好的政策的話教育部應該是要好好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5149.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5149.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
來作規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5165.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5190.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們自己中央廚房設計出這樣的課線上課程再搭配各個高中的種子學老師那來推這個也是我們未來會努力的目標我覺得就是說創造台灣的整體AI環境不會是只有國發會也不會是只有經濟部我覺得教育部我們在整個的教育體系裡頭共同去努力創造這個是很重要的一件事來那個教育部次長那您請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5191.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5194.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那那個郭部長你也可以請回我請一下國發會請問一下國發會 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5203.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5230.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
來 劉主委您剛剛在那個報告的時候其實你有特別談到未來導入AI包括我們的流財、纜財等等你要用企業的方法所以剛剛其實也有委員問到我們的流財、纜財政策裡頭其實對於您在海外纜財的這一些誘因技術人員的誘因其實是不太夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5231.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5248.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
包括稅責包括他們的居留等等您覺得正在國家發展的角度上面台灣有沒有必要檢討我們現行的所謂的移民政策如何讓您這些企業方法的這些攬財的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5251.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5279.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
讓它更人性化或者是說讓它更具備誘因比如說剛剛講的人才來到這裡之後他的課稅問題他的居留問題子女的教育問題這個過去我們在攬財專案的法規討論上面其實都討論了很多但是對於這些海外的人不管他是華人也好不管是台裔也好或者是他是外國籍的人也好他要到台灣來 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5280.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5297.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
右鷹其實不太夠就是跟台灣的整個移民政策是有相關的就國發會的立場您覺得台灣的移民政策是不是需要檢討或者是在我們要攬AI人才的這個區塊上面我們是不是應該要有一些更大幅的開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5298.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5321.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
是的我們目前看起來是需要檢討才會具備國際的競爭力要更加的開放也才有機會去吸引人才好那這樣子國發會有沒有就這個部分跟其他的各部會比如說移民署、內政部或者是說你們有沒有做一個總體的規劃總體檢你們先要提AI的基本法經濟部要培育 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5322.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5332.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
20萬的AI人才要從國外攬財進來你說輝達進來投資他必須帶一半以上的人是從海外進來的那海外進來的這一些人要怎麼樣留在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5334.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5360.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
他要符合台灣的什麼樣的法令你要怎麼樣把這些人讓他有足夠的誘因留在這這個其實是都需要你們有一個跨部會的檢討我其實不太喜歡你們每次都講說什麼東西就會變成第二座護國神山現在你們已經有把AI捧得很高又說AI是第二座護國神山你真的要當護國神山的時候其實你是必須要各部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5362.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5380.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
所有相關的法令配套都必須要完整人才的獲得這個劣材都其實都是需要一個完整的配套但我現在看不出來你們所謂完整的配套上面比如說AI生態園區到底它是實體還是虛擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5382.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5408.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
你們都講不清楚啦國發會跟事務發布的態度意見根本就完全講不清楚啊然後包括你們跟經濟部的配合包括跟教育部的配合甚至跟財務財政部的配合這個其實是需要花很長的時間去討論而不是你自己今天一個國發會隨便就丟一個東西出來就我不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5409.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5435.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
你們在行政院裡面到底有沒有就這一塊去做過討論我們現在就初步的意見是有溝通過但是細部的部分我們其實已經在整理我們現在整理了六個國家的優缺點因為我們要定位我們的競爭定位在哪裡那也跟委員報告不只是剛才講的稅包括這些人進來他的小孩的教育等等其實我們都會整體規劃以後然後去溝通各部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5435.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5457.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
好 這個主委我覺得這個動作可能要快啦這個如果說你們要把AI變成第二座護國神山的話相關的所有的法令配套各部會的配合各部會的推動遇到有致愛難行的地方我覺得大家都應該要趕快把這個問題都丟出來然後來集思廣益趕快來解決你才有辦法來 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5459.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5477.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
很快速的把台灣變成是一個AI島那甚至說你現在要做的這些AI的產業不只是中小企業產業要有AI化我們的醫療、農業是不是都能夠運用這樣的一個AI技術把它全面的推廣出去那你講到農業講到醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5479.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5496.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
你要牽扯到的又會到農業部、衛福部所以其實它整個就是一個大行政院、大政府的架構去推動這個所謂的AI產業這個其實千頭萬緒但是我們期待跟你們一起努力好不好好 謝謝委員接下來我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5511.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5513.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
謝謝召委 請郭部長我們請郭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5520.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5541.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
部長好委員好部長在近期來輝達的旋風席捲全台那尤其是輝達的執行長黃仁勳他也特別表示說台灣AI跟我們的半導體產業是非常重要的國家未來會在台灣會設立第二的研發中心跟總部這可見得台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5542.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5563.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
在全球的科技產業鏈通通會來台灣來投資但是黃仁勳臨走的時候特別擔憂也警示我們說臺灣電力整個配電的要充足產業才能來投資才不會影響到全球的發展整個AI的發展可是早上我們看到一個新聞就是美國智庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5564.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5592.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
美國智庫說臺灣的電力短缺部長早上的報告裡面也說臺灣的電力是不會缺電的那這樣子的話那是表示美國智庫在造謠那你要不要抗議報告委員我想美國智庫他只是他的那個新聞的這個說明他是說如果臺灣電力短缺會造成世界經濟的影響並沒有說臺灣這個電力他指明是臺灣電力短缺喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5594.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5608.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
他只是假設性的假設性的那所以你對於我們台灣電力是有信心我們不缺電是的那那跳電停電都是動物惹的禍目前來講的話這個妥善率其實是有一些不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5609.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5628.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
因為AI產業的話你要拿到全球的訂單必須要是綠電那你2026年的話要達到20%的再生能源的綠電2030年要達到30%你一直說有信心除了用光電除了還有我們的離岸風電外你還有什麼方式可以達成你的信心呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5628.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5646.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我們現在朝著這兩個方面在努力跟委員報告說現在我們有一些新的科技進來包括地熱、包括氫能這些都是我們在考慮的部分是,好,部長本席會這麼講的原因就是因為我們再生能源的話離岸風電我們目前採取示範獎勵跟我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5651.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5657.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
展覽廠子及區塊開發已經進入第三階段第二期選廠商在6月底前都要把這個廠商給選出來那能不能完成為什麼這樣子問因為你第一期的區塊開發就已經延期了都已經delay了在2026年跟2027年你的併電 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5678.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5690.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
並往發電你要做到那現在你連選商都還沒有完成的話那會不會等第二期也會無限的延期下去就不到你的這個離岸風電不能完成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5691.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5707.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
在之前會有點延遲主要是因為這個世界上面的環境的影響那這個歐洲它也一直在朝這個風力在這邊發電所以它有一些這個船的問題沒有辦法來到我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5709.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5734.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
因為你第一期延期成本就提高了第二期的話你如果再延期的話成本又會提高你要怎麼提升這樣產業能夠繼續的來台灣開發你的電力是要非常非常的充足他們才能夠成本穩定才會有競爭力 是不是是 讓這個廠商有競爭力我們會把這個電價的部分做充分的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5735.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5736.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
因為你規劃說2030年我們整個離岸風電它的這整個總發電量要達到13.1GW能不能完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5749.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5777.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我想以目前的這個進度我會督促我們的這個團隊照表就先把這個計畫13.6G的這樣的一個目標訂出來然後我們逐年逐月去檢討然後過去為什麼會慢把這個慢的因素拿掉然後這個全力去衝刺是你要全力衝刺我希望你能如期並往發電好不好是再來部長請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5779.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5796.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
經濟部撤銷了桃園市市府終止三家SRF入住桃科的處分請問部長是你拍板決定的嗎?這個不是我拍板決定 這個是有一個審議委員會有11位專家學者然後他們開會決定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5803.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5830.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
部長 在你們中央一直說尊重地方地方有自主的裁決權 是不是那所以地方做出了決定要終止它入園那你們到了接受這個這個溯源的時候你們又廢止了我們這個處分那這樣子的話你有尊重到地方嗎你在決定這些事情之前有沒有跟我們地方去溝通的 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5832.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5851.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我們是從法律面去看的這件事情因為那個入園許可是地方政府的是地方政府的地方政府決定了嘛終止他入園啦要考量民眾大家對空屋的影響會讓大家的健康堪慮所以終止了所以你就要尊重地方啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5852.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5861.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
你為什麼要懷財執照?一定要這樣做呢?不是,我們沒有這個決定權那地方政府決定了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5862.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5888.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
所以當時部長你來我辦公室的時候我跟你說明了很清楚所以我相信你這件事情你應該是很了解的在當時的王前部長的時候專案會議專案許可要讓他進來就是推薦函結果我們地方反彈的時候他說這個只是表述而已沒有法律效益收回兩度收回11月去年的11月12月兩度收回這個推薦函 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5889.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5917.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那所以說你們又一直表示說尊重地方政府那地方政府做出了決定你又撤銷了他的處分我沒有撤銷他的處分啊你現在撤銷啊要繼續要他進來啊正來書院然後這個是書院會我們召集專家、學者就他的這個內容來做出這個這樣的一個決定這裡面11位的委員有9位是大學教授跟這個法學專家所以他們一致做出這個決定不是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5919.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5930.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
所以這個決定權不在地方政府了嗎?中央說尊重地方,地方做了決定,中央又撤銷了這個處分啊所以我們是讓這個書院委員會來做決定,不是我們經濟部做決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5932.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5949.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
部長我們希望我們的政府既然尊重地方就要看到地方的民意地方重視他們的健康你們就不要當作沒看到不顧民意不顧民眾的健康到時候我們會努力的來跟你們抗爭因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5950.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5972.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
你知道嗎?這觀音、陶科三家這個是固體的發電廠這發電廠的廢棄有多大?你應該都知道吧?那你們呢?你們的那個環境部環境部你自己不去修法這個是標準排廢量的標準你不去修法認為很困難結果你就大開後門然後大開綠燈讓他們進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5975.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5999.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
每一次都在專案的我們桃園去年就已經反對了在陣前市長的時候就已經反對了你們用專案要他入園那結果後來又說選舉期限到了要尊重地方你們自己決定沒有法律效益那地方做出決定之後你們又說專家委員大家決定的要撤銷你的處分都跟你們沒關係甩鍋給地方嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6001.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6024.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
我們經濟部本來就不是這個對這個工業區有主管的權利這委員會經濟部你們的專案會議部長王美花部長就開了專案會議你們能源局的給他們這個同意這個設備的這個文件這都是你們這整個發下來的不是跟經濟部沒有關係啊報告委員現在這個問題已經是實際上是存在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6028.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6043.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我現在跟這個台灣市政府我們也都在協商如何處理這個問題那麼現在環境部他有提出他的態度就是說入園許可必須用歐盟的標準那你不修法啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6044.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6066.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我們就去修法我們要討論這個事情那你的修法我們會依法去嚴格審查它的標準多少面積有多少的排放就是固定的啊是不是所以在製之前你們就要尊重地方我們是尊重地方才會進行你說地方是決定權在於地方啊是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6067.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6088.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
所以現在台灣市政府他現在要求我們要給一個國際的定位跟管理的辦法所以我們現在提出一個新的這個定位在你們還沒決定下來我不曉得這個一再的被撤回一再的禁止入園一而再再而再從前朝的經濟部到現在的經濟部不曉得後面有什麼龐大的這個勢力還是有什麼利益你們一定要幫他們開別墾一定要讓他們進來報告委員這個是完全沒有的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6097.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6116.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我們現在就是說我必須要說我們共同都有討論到台灣電力是要穩定供電不管我們整個產業AI或者是半導體等等我們要穩定供電所以我們還想說現在電力真的是不足連國際連美國智庫都這麼說了所以我們要努力尤其是綠電的問題那但是部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6120.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6139.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
當時我們討論的時候我們必須要讓電力穩定必須要把核能列入考量做機載的用電才能夠穩定結果你現在被民進黨的高層校正回饋一下你就回來就爽說非核加鹽還是最終的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6141.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6166.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
這個是依法啦依法可是電力不穩定的話我們台灣怎麼發展我們的AI怎麼發展全球的產業鏈都怎麼來投資呢這個我們會努力因為現在發電的方法還是有很多不要因為沒有辦法拿到綠電就要我們桃科、觀音三個廢棄物的發電廠在我們這邊危害我們鄉親的健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6167.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6173.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
部長請你們要尊重民意也尊重我們地方政府好不好是好 謝謝接下來我們請張祺凱委員請做巡討 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6197.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6203.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
謝謝主席請主委及部長好我們請主委跟郭部長兩位請 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6214.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6230.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
主要的補充是內閣的新亮點 大家對你們算是肯定啦 很多的期許不過現在看起來好像被那個電擋住了 對不對我們先看一下你們的老朋友 黃承信讓他講來記者問他說 你會煩惱台灣欠點嗎 你的朋友黃承信讓他講 他說 台灣需要比較多的點 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6237.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6261.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那未來幾年如果擴大對台灣投資呢?黃宁勳說電力限制當然是個挑戰是個挑戰所以對兩位是很大的挑戰其實有欠電沒欠電啦不是用嘴巴講他應該是科學問題嘛對不對至少兩個事情要做到嘛第一個你們任內不能大停電不能大停電第二個你要推AI、半導體 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6263.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6277.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
產業要跟你講它便利是過的你求防人心你待會看就淡淡嘛這次是你要解決的問題了好來我直接問部長一個比較這幾天大家都在忙你的問題啦你看一下齁有人說你對核電的態度是不是因為一變再變 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6279.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6302.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
你壓力太大嗎?你變了嗎?我練給你聽,你先看,看下螢幕你四月十六,準部長郭志輝說核電廠要不要研議啊?取決於前面評估五月十五你說核電、核能是乾淨的能源核電部分是由多數人同意來做決定,最重要是六月七個一個禮拜前你就站在這邊嘛,對不對?那時候我問你喔,你怎麼說? |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6305.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6318.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我們會考慮條件是要安全如果安全無疑法令的許可就要做更重要是下面那句話如果修法安全都通過了合二合三可以用20年到30年 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6321.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6339.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
那最大轉變其實就是6月6號那天嘛 對不對?周院長叫你應該諸位也有在嘛 那天都有在嘛 對不對?周院長那天 宴請了民進黨立委那天 被震撼教育了你後來改口說 核電是沒有考慮的一部分 輝和家園的態度沒有改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6341.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6356.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
這會不會轉得太大人民現在看的話對你們有期許對不對以前大家民調很高或者有期許的郭智輝郭部長是一個專業務實的負責的經濟部長可是你現在是被政治被意識形態綁架了 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6358.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6381.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
報告委員 這個還是一樣我的前提就是非核家園是沒有變只是我那個時候在講的時候沒有講這一句話所以我的用詞不夠精準這點我非常抱歉但是我想我的意思就是說非核家園是沒有變但是其他的這些假設性問題我在敘述假設性的問題也就是說今天如果我們講說這個法 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6382.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6396.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
已經解掉了然後我們去盤點然後去看他安全無虞然後這個核安會他也通過了認為他是可行的所以我是在講說前面都有前提 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6397.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6425.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那現在大概很多的朋友就是會比較不注意前面的那個假設部長你沒有很委屈啦沒有被震撼教育啦沒有沒有沒有沒有被震撼教育我問你一下你知道經濟部長你任的經濟部長任期最短的是誰嗎現在大家在關心你啦大家對你有問問嘛希望你當久一點啦謝謝在產業界希望你當久一點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6426.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6449.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
可是你知道嗎?經濟部長有的任期很短喔左邊這一位中材宜你知道中材宜是幾岁嗎?你不知道?40多岁你應該不是誤闖叢林的小白兔啦你經驗那麼豐富企業界對你有期待嘛我期待你可以像王美花一樣王美花當了快四年 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6450.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6471.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
可是你到底是一個短命的經濟部長還是一個長命的經濟部長這個很重要喔是一方面任期長不長第二個有沒有幫產業界解決問題我都要講了你任期絕對不要發生大停電產業界的人對你說說你講的是謊話或者你不了解我我根本不敢投資這兩個事情一出現我跟你講你明天就掉下來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6472.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6495.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
好不好不要大停電讓產業界講真心話真的幫他們解決問題期待你是王美花的任期不是中產儀可是相對你要幫產業界解決問題好不好不要讓人家覺得說那個以前務實專業的鍋子會不見了好不好主委你要不要幫你的老朋友打打氣主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6496.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6521.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
他可以解決剛剛講那兩個問題嘛對不對規大停電 滿足企業界的用電嗎用電是要不足夠喔要是穩定的電喔 低碳的電喔你記得你的老朋友 郭志輝 郭部長可以做得到嗎這個幾乎我們每天都有溝通啦我對他信心十足我信心啦好 所以希望可以做久一點而且可以解決問題啦來 可是啊 我剛才講過啦電夠不夠啊 是科學問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6523.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6541.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
不是意識形態跟政治的問題,它還是簡單的數學問題。我們來看你的挑戰在這裡你現在河山廠的一號機727要停了明年五月二號機要停了減了7%的電力我們的電力少了7% |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6542.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6565.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
然後呢你自己講的過去5年我們的平均用電每一年是成長2.03%郭部長你自己講的加上AI進來之後AI需求爆發的影響我們台灣每一年增加的電力是3%你到2029年剩多少萬用5年來算就好了我們的電力至少要增加16%少7%增加16%你去找這麼多電出來你去找這麼多電出來所以那個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6570.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6588.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
把核電當成一個備援的電力對不對然後第二個你現在看起來你的電量生出來你是從大潭電廠的7號機跟9號機嘛對不對可是現在看起來三接到現在端也見完啊你到時候會不會接不上來報告委員那個三接在明年的4月就會見完幾位 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6592.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6617.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
這有把握啦不要不要用那個現在看起來4號跟4J跟5J環境我去看過了你去看過了下禁令狀喔每年4月是啦一定要搞喔是是是有夠的話有3J有成的話才有可能你的大潭電廠的7號機跟9號機才有天然氣可以用是是要不然的話你就真的是缺電了是好不好好來我們再看下一個除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6619.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6648.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
4.5G要真的接上來之外還有一個問題就是低碳AI需要穩定的電嘛對不對而且是低碳嘛現在連環保環境部的部長都講2050年淨零碳排台灣不可能另外我提醒一個點發展產業之外台灣人的健康要顧到對不對我相信你有這個體認主委跟部長應該都很注意這個台灣人的費是比較耐操嗎台灣現在用電一年是3000 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6649.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6668.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
三千億度,製造了多少?產生了多少的這個碳?1.27億噸!我們現在肺癌跟肺腺癌發生的是全世界第15離癌的、死掉的致死率最高的也是肺癌跟肺腺癌 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6669.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6687.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
可是現在看起來你的替代方案你核電停掉了低碳的核電停掉了可是你現在都是天然氣喔都是燃煤喔甚至有個內幕很重要你前幾天啊你還把麥寮的燃煤的這個電廠它是民間的你本來跟它五月就是停止合約的嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6689.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6717.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
你跟他續約到明年底那個是用燃煤那個是對我自己人那個是對嘉義地區對雲林地區對台中、彰化地區那個健康影響是很大的我現在提醒要有足夠的電穩定的電低碳的電的同時顧到人民的健康好不好好的不過那個是報告委員那是婚姻管政府的要求婚姻管政府要求減煤的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6719.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6739.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
問題是你台電在買啊,你如果為了人民的健康,其實我覺得它是那麼古老的電廠,那麼古老的電廠,而且影響是燒的施展煤,為什麼不停呢?你如果電力夠的話,部長,你如果電力夠的話,我鄭重呼籲,我要再買它的電了,因為時間就是到了啊,而且又是施展煤了 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6743.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6767.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
是的 是如您所指導的但是這個部分就是契約契約就夠了 契約就是5月31日夠了你們現在是延期 為什麼要延到明年底啊好不好 這個我們早先再來追啦我跟你講 站在人民的健康其實不是只有雲嘉蘭、彰化跟台中啦你看那個中南部的那個肺腺癌跟肺癌那麼嚴重好不好 人命關天 也注意一下最後我要求兩個東西好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6769.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6795.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
第一個部長你提出電力設施如果銜接不上你有什麼緊急的方案好不好你本來7%的電力硬要把它停掉我知道你可能也為難因為你是政務官嘛你可能也為難河山廠也要計劃停可是緊急發生狀況銜接不上的時候你有什麼緊急方案第二個你現在核能不研議了增加多少的未來一年好了好不好未來一年因為河山廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6796.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6819.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
一要及OIT停完之後,你增加多少的碳排跟發電的成本?你兩個禮拜給我的報告好不好?好的好,加油期待不是一個短命的經濟部長可是,如果像黃部長要當4年的話不要大停電而且電力要充,充足的同時要是低碳的,又是一個穩定的電好不好?讓產業真正可以發展好不好?是是好,謝謝部長,也謝謝主委好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6830.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6838.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
謝謝 那我們待會主席還要宣告一下到鄭振權委員質詢我們休息三分鐘請楊瓊議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6861.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6864.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
謝謝主席 楊全元發言首先邀請郭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6872.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6894.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
國務部長好在主委跟您的報告當中我們聽到了幾點重點這個主委說他說沒有台灣很難看到世界因為我們台灣佔有關鍵的位置這個非常nice但是他也提到世界人才荒的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6895.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6919.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
所以我也歡喜在你的報告當中你首先會提出人才培育的問題在人才培育的問題之前我們上次有說過這個電力等於國力你也認同這樣子的一個論點所以本期呢要告訴你在你還沒有擔任經濟部長的時候那我們在立法院大院裡頭通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6920.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6942.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
也就是當3月份電價委員會審議的時候4月1號開始漲價漲價之餘呢我們立即提出也就是人民在這個時間非常的辛苦所以9月份因為一年要開兩次會9月份不能再漲要動漲今天我很高興的看到經濟報呢寫了卓葵暗示9月不漲電價請教部長卓葵聽到了民眾的聲音您聽到了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6950.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6979.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
是不是9月我們會朝這個方向來進行請做說明報告委員我經濟部就是尊重這個院的這個指示啦院的指示所以昨回暗示9月部長店家就是動長就這個方向嘛是嗎我還沒有得到這個院長的這個直接的你看到經濟報吧我沒有看你沒有看啊我現在秀給你看謝謝你趕快看你看這麼大一片 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6980.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6988.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那是不是會朝這個方向呢?立法院大會也已經通過了也建議給行政部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6989.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7007.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
報告委員 這個我們回去以後會請示院長那它是不是這樣的一個方向如果是這個方向我們就按照這個方向來做好 我們也希望能夠得到好的方向就是九月動漲 不漲電價大家一起來照顧我們的民生照顧我們的產業好 你拼命地點頭我們就繼續來討論這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7011.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7025.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
大家要清楚你提出宣示2028年要培育20萬名AI的應用工程師來協助我們整個中小產業導入AI智慧跟製造那依照你的規劃你必須要結盟產業工協會 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7029.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7058.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
國際大廠、學校、職業訓練等機構來協助產業AI的課程﹐輔導企業導入AI的應用所以今天教育部也在現場市長也在現場也就是怎麼樣橫向的部會提升製造AI應用普及這個50%至少50%這是您所提出的所以本期要請教這是一個非常對的方向但是是一個大工程我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7058.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7085.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
不是只有口號而是真正能夠落實所以請教部長四年培育的20萬名AI的人才你預估有多少是我們的國人是我們的國人大部分都是我們國人大部分都是我們國人我想這個劉主委他在講的部分是跟那個教育部在談的就是這個最高階的在做這個模型的這個工程師這個部分大概從外部進來大概我想大概兩三千人 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7086.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7098.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
但是我要訓練的是實作的在現場操作的工程師跟微調設計的工程師所以這一部分我想大部分都是我們國人也就是20萬裡面我想應該有18萬都是國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7101.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7117.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
好 20萬名你要訓練的有18萬名是我國我們自己中華民國的國人我們一起努力所以本期給你一個功課因為國防部也在這邊教育部也在這邊應該要將我國的這一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7118.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7129.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
AI的人才必須要做一個橫向前瞻性的一個完整的計劃我也希望你們橫向組織聯繫也一份書面資料給本席那接下來我們還是來講電的問題微軟的創辦人比爾蓋茲他主導的他在美國建了這個第四代的核電廠開工他也表示這是美國潮者 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7147.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7164.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
安全、豐富以及零碳能源。」所以這一項工作成功之後對於美國未來的國家整個的競爭力是非常的重要請教郭部長你認同這樣的說法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7170.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7188.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這個國外的新的技術我們都有在觀察有在留意因為它現在還是在做一些實驗還不是完全做商業運轉所以我們還沒有辦法看到它的基本所需求的安全、核廢料如果是這個樣子的話我們當然會再討論會來參考、豐富、安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7197.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7225.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
還有零碳的這個能源這個是大家都希望的嘛所以我們也希望能夠跟世界來接軌主席我也請我們國防委主委主委對於比爾蓋茲所提出的這樣子的第四代核電廠的一個開工他的論點剛剛郭部長說如果是這個方向你們會來參考那您的立場呢?你的看法呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7227.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7247.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
報委員我大概有一點瞭解他現在是用鈉然後取代過去的水他的輻射量會低一些但是因為鈉碰到空氣會燃燒所以他的安全性還有待觀察那他現在是先凍土還沒有辦法到進一步的核准執照所以我們還要持續觀察他的結果才能定論 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7248.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7264.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
好 這個回答非常好也就是我們各個部門都必須要能夠跟世界來接軌因為全球都在搶人才全球也都對於整個電力給予高度的關注我們必須要好好的去了解因為國力 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7266.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7273.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
電力等於國力。」沒有電力,什麼都不用講了,對不對?好,所以在這樣的一個情況之下,我繼續要來請問那個郭部長,台電公司的財務問題也是一直我關心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7281.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7305.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
您在上一次本席請教的時候您說了一句話你說你不支持以公務預算來指引但是目前情況會讓我們嚇一跳所以在這種情況之下呢本席要來請教目前我們自產的一度電2.3塊你買的電不夠你要買的是5.09塊你買了綠能風力發電的一度電多少一度電多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7308.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7313.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
Open Book已經在上面你自己看我已經給你Open Book了鋒利綠電多少?你買了多少?6.8塊所以在這樣情況之下台電的財務如果不解決它一直虧損你沒有辦法穩定供電 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7333.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7358.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
這怎麼辦所以您跟我有約定兩件事情第一個在這個會期結束前你會公布包括AI所加入的電力的需求量第二個台電財務的問題要怎麼處理你都還是會在這個會期結束前會告訴我們國人嗎是的是的所以我們就拭目以待好好來做那最後我請國發會 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7362.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7386.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
部長你請回國科會的主委吳主委他說了他說台灣廠商如果不走出去就是面臨嚴重的五缺缺工缺地缺資源等等這是吳主委所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7387.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7410.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
但是在剛剛郭部長所說的他要培育20萬人他也認為我們的電沒問題當然不包括AI的部分還要再統計所以本期要請教國科會主委台灣廠商如果真的不走出去是不是真的會面臨到缺工、缺地、缺資源的問題請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7413.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7437.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
謝謝委員我輔導過很多廠商走出去他主要的目的主要是前進國際市場然後加入整個國際供應鏈的需求那這是整個國際的趨勢那也是台灣要進入一個日不落帝國的請回答本席的提問如果我們的廠商不出走我們會面臨在國內的缺工缺地缺資源嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7438.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7457.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
目前來看我認為台灣比較辛苦的會是土地面積的問題社會缺嗎所以你也認同國會會吳主委的說法只有土地因為我們現在你認同他的一部分好一部分接下來我要告訴你他講的是真的你們不要粉飾太平要面對問題去解決問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7460.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7483.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
因為在我們的國科會半導體晶片研發的績效來說他申請的人數你看本期的資料OpenBook給你他是往下降的案件也在減少AI的這個A4代的半導體前瞻半導體及量子這個技術研究的計畫裡頭110年申請的是376年111年是201人112年是138人 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7489.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7508.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
今年剩下25人所以你們的橫向必須要去看他那一邊已經短出那麼多了而且我們看到新興晶片設計研發的計畫跟次世代核物半導體的研發計畫申請的人數一直在低減今年剩下多少 30人 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7510.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7536.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
主委本席給你這個數字在國科會的數量是如此心驚驚的真的會怕你不缺人嗎本席有疑慮有疑慮所以我希望的我們要如何的去協助推動產業橫向的聯繫不會非常的重要好不好因為我們要去面對這個問題一個國會委員會主委已經告訴你如果不出走會怎麼樣了那到時候台灣怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7538.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7547.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
台灣怎麼辦?所以本席非常的希望因為這是一個大功課也是一個人類改變的關鍵時刻就誠如你所說的沒有台灣看不到全世界我們很高興的我們的人才都在台灣產生在全世界發揚光大我們更要實際去面對問題橫向政府有這個職責必須要協助產業這是本席給你的功課請你去把它整理好 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7566.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7579.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
去把它整理好我們該缺的要怎麼樣去應對這是我們必要做的好不好你把它整理好順便資料給本席好嗎我會跟國科會討論一下謝謝好 謝謝劉書偉請回好 謝謝接下來我們請謝一鋒委員請做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7600.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7607.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
謝謝主席我想要請我們國發會的劉主委跟我們經濟部的郭部長我們再請劉主委跟郭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7617.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7635.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我想請教一下今天早上我們郭部長說如果計算進去就是說我們AI的這個用電的話那未來是3%的這個成長用電的成長那我想要了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7636.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7653.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這個3%的用電成長是我們原先預估的就是在AI沒有蓬勃發展的情況下我們所預估的3%還是在我們看到了AI產業有回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7654.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7654.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
這兩個用電的估算還是3%嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7673.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7693.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
跟委員報告上禮拜我剛好有參加這方面的會議的確是上禮拜重新估計的上禮拜重新估計但是我說了你說的是上禮拜重新估計但是我說的是估計的是原先預估保守的這種成長還是是爆炸性的成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7694.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7709.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
這是含AI的成長我知道這是含AI過去你的3%就是含AI的成長了但是我們所說的是說如果AI蓬勃發展的時候你的用電供電的成長還是3%嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7713.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7741.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我們現在是以目前的狀態評估出來的數字是目前的那我不清楚委員彭博的定義大概會到什麼程度那目前我們大概我的了解是郭部長他們去問了很多業界然後台電也問了很多業界綜合出來業界所反映的訊息整理出來的也許郭部長可以做進一步的說可是如果按照回答他的架構他的新產品他的用電量會激增2到3倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7742.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7770.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那這樣子的情況下我們的用電量是否還是3%每年的成長?國部長你有數字嗎?報告委員這個這一部分它們雖然是會增加但是它新的這個晶片也會降能會降能對對對就是說降低它的這個電的能耗所以它未來的用電的成長不會像 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7771.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7795.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我們大家一般業界的評估的這麼高嗎?是不是?不會這樣這麼高,是不是?而且我跟委員報告主要是這樣子就是說他們現在所晶片有在有降能那另外做成的這個伺服器啊伺服器也會因為這個他剛開始要做這個數據中心他可能不會用那麼大的這個伺服器 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7795.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7811.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
所以他會漸漸地看然後看完以後他最後他那個比較大台的比如說那個350M的或者500M的那個那個一定都是放在比較後面的投資不會一開始就投資那麼大我想對投資者來講他也會慢慢地去 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7812.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7827.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
去測試我們的電到底是有沒有那麼多啦我想這個是事實嘛大家都清楚啦不可能一聲就國伯要勤奮三八五十年勤奮所以初期是不會那麼高對 初期一定不會那麼高所以我們過去的這個現在雖然講說3%我們認為3%其實是應該可以滿足這個市場的需求但2028年以後如果這個AI的熱潮整個非常的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7839.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7865.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
那麼我們就是要比較擔心但是我想因為我們現在在看了觀察我們是動態的在觀察所以我們現在另外一個我可以在這個地方跟各位報告就是說大家都擔心我們店可能不夠不過我們從現在一直在檢討做這個節能的這個方案所以這個方案如果我推的下去的話我事實上非常有機會來滿足 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7869.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7883.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
這個2025到2028的成長那我想要了解的就是目前大家都認為說你說未來就是政府部門不應該再就是撥補給台電嗎那電價電價會不會漲是不是你看這是台電的資產負債表4月底的資產負債表它累計的虧損是4400億這樣子高的數字那如果未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7896.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7915.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
政府部門過去都是由政府部門吸收以及當初你也講的你原本是要降低就是平均的發電的成本因為從你過去的經驗你認為台電應該要降低平均發電的成本那未來有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7915.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7932.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
在如果目前大家看來好像核能是比較成本是相對比較低的這個情況下那未來沒有可能降低那政府部門又不撥補的情況下那是不是勢必電價就會 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7934.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7962.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
如果我們沒有從效益上面去推估那麼只從這個成本上面去考量的話就會像這個委員你所指教的不過我認為啦這個一個公司的經營必須要看我這個營運的效益跟我所使用材料的成本跟我人力我想這個成本的部分我們除了這個材料的成本以外人力的成本然後運作的這個效益 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7962.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7983.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
這些都是我可以去努力的部分那雖然我們材料成本佔非常的高不過我們現在就是就是女人的成本嗎天然氣跟燃煤的成本嗎您所說的關心的這個核能的這個成本如果核能成本我全部替換了以後我事實上每一度增加的成本並不高 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7984.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7990.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
並不高因為過去我們的這個可能只佔了這個目前是只佔了這個6%到7%所以他真的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7996.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8024.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
90幾%的成本在那邊是固定的啦這個部分真的能佔的部分太小它所影響出來的這個價格是非常的小的那我必須要由這個一些這個妥善率啊或者是漏食的部分啊或者是一些績效不好的地方去努力報告委員我們現在最快的方式就是去推動節能方案節能方案就是ESCO這個方案那麼這個方案呢我可以讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8025.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8025.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8026.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8055.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
他們也可以降低它的電費那多久可以執行?你節能的方向多久可以執行?因為你必須要在缺口產生之前你如果這樣子說這樣子會增加企業多少的成本?你不能只用高科技產業來看你必須要看影響就業人口最多數的中小企業的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8056.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8081.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
他會增加多少成本?基本上我們先滿足中小企業以及一般的商家跟一般的住家的用電我們朝向這一部分剛才我想楊委員也有特別指導我們這一部分的話就是按照院長他如果說只是這一部分我們不長的話我們就努力朝這個部分來努力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8082.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8098.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
所以你在不漲電價的情況下你是以節能的方式去因應嗎對對對我們會朝著這個節能的部分來努力臺電的成本呢臺電的虧損呢臺電不會產生虧損不會產生虧損如果我們這個推的數據的話臺電會不會倒閉不會不會倒閉不會不會倒閉是你說的是不是我說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8112.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8139.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
經營公司我想我們不可能讓它倒閉啦這個財務有財務的問題我們會去努力但是我個人認為經營一個公司最重要是效益跟效率的問題台電會不會倒閉那如果不會倒閉就不會產生你的認知是這樣是不是你是說不會缺電不會缺電也不會倒閉不會也不會增加成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8141.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8153.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
不會增加成本也不會有虧損虧損就過去的虧損是新的不會虧損對新的不會虧損那總經理要不要說一下是不是不會虧損 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8156.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8170.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
報告委員部長因為來自於企業界他對整個成本方面都會有要求那我們會把整個的細節再分析給部長聽到時候會做比較詳細的一個瞭解之後再判斷好 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8183.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8203.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我給部長補充因為前任的部長說有政府台電就不會倒你要大方一點沒問題當然我們也歡喜聽到你是以經營的方式台電不會倒這個是讓國人有信心但是你說台電不增加成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8204.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8214.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那不會虧損這個有一點疑慮啦我們也拭目以待你可以提出方案好 接下來我們請鄭振賢委員請做巡討謝主席我想請一下國防匯流主委、經濟部郭部長還有我們國科會的林部主委請以上三位 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8240.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8264.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
謝謝主席今天特別針對AI這個部分做了一個安排的一個專題報告那我在想說過去這一兩個禮拜以來因為Computex就是那個輝達NVIDIA他們經常到台灣來的時候也引起了一個很大的一個旋風那讓全世界都看到台灣在AI這領域的一個重要性那也讓台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8265.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8293.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
就是認為除了在半導體這個護國神山之外的時候我們可能還會有很多護國神山會陸續的一個生成我們也非常的開心可是在講AI這部分的時候我覺得有三個力三力一定要去處理的一個是人力一個是算力一個是電力這三力我覺得是發展我們AI很重要的三個不同的領域那我在想說我目前因為很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8295.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8320.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
委員同仁也都提到了人力跟電力的一個部分那我覺得這個部分我想先從算力這邊來切入算力這邊比較少人講那我這邊也要特別先問一下國防會主委這邊因為我們在講發展AI當中的時候可是好像沒有看到一個從政府的一個角度對於整個國家算力提升的部分有一個很具體的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8321.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8334.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
這個部分有沒有一些具體的後續要去做的部分那個主委這邊可不可以先講一下報告委員這個分工上能不能請國科會來他主導我請他是不是先做說明我再補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8336.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8350.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
讓國科會做說明是不是這個部分我本來是要講說整個AI相關的部分因為算力是整個AI裡面很重要的一環那整個AI這個部分的時候如果說你要讓國科會這邊先講的時候也沒問題我想說讓國科會這邊先來回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8355.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8373.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那個跟委員報告目前整個國網的算力大概是36的Peta Flow的PF那相較於這個韓國跟日本比起來的確是差很多現在韓國跟日本都有四五百以上那麼所以呢我們未來如果要以 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8374.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8402.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
AI去發展百工百業然後讓台灣成為一個AI的大國的話的確是我們在算力事要大幅增進 確實不夠嘛 因為其實本席從上一屆當中的時候對於整個國家算力的部分就非常的關注我們國網中心 坦白說我舉個簡單的例子我們國網中心支援了半導體研究中心半導體研究中心它支援了很多高校裡面大家的一個研究的一個計畫一堆學生在抱怨 裡面根本都跑不動 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8404.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8423.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
就是排程跑不動那時間都跑不動然後光是一個學術單位都沒辦法支援的時候你要怎麼樣去帶動產業這個部分我其實是很懷疑的我後來去看了一下調了一下我們所有的預算就看到我們跟整個算力提供有關的大概只有在整個國研院下面 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8424.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8444.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
有一個高效能計算技術研發建置與維運今年113的預算總共只有6.6億,非常的少總共只有6.2億,抱歉只有6.2億,其實非常的少這裡面還包括維運的部分建置的部分又再砍一半所以我覺得以這樣的部分要用 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8445.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8468.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
國家的力量來支援算力我就本席是非常擔心的可是我覺得因為算力其實當我們現在整個在做尤其像今天在做AI的一個主題當中我們還希望讓整個產業從數位轉型走到AI轉型的時候那政府就必須要更有一些算力掌控在手上作為我們一些政策的工具我這樣講應該是對的嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8470.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8494.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
所以目前看起來若只靠國網中因為國網中本來就是在支援學術研究的一個機制對產業來說其實是遠遠的不夠所以我在這邊要請教一下郭部長因為我在看你在針對之前那個業務報告的時候你有特別提到就是在整個推動產業AI應用的部分你提到說本部爭取國際大廠免費提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8495.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8511.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
AI超級電腦部分算力資源提到算力資源那麼要加速建構台灣專屬生成式AI核心技術這個部分所以就是說以經濟部的角度來看的時候經濟部的算力也是要依靠企業這邊來支持是這樣子嗎經濟部的算力有經濟部的這個預算吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8517.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8519.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
經濟部有哪些具體預算在提升算力? |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8549.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8572.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
這個是目前就台灣幾個比較重要的一個超級電腦的一個部分目前排第一個是台北萬是輝達提供的那提供部分這當然就是經濟部這邊有大Aplus計畫當中有支持60億左右的一個預算所以我在想說部長這邊提到說要用企業的資源我以為你要用的是這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8573.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8597.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
那這個部分本席也接受因為經濟部有補助經費那麼要從台北灣這邊去share資源給政府來使用給企業使用我都覺得可以沒有不行所以你剛剛提到說我們經濟部有另外的一個算力的一個研究中心算力中心的一個計畫你再提供給我因為我目前看預算書是沒有看到的那我要講的狀態是目前台灣的這幾個重要的超級電腦當中排名第二個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8604.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8630.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
氣象署的超級電腦第三個就是台三二號這個部分排名目前是排名106全世界排名106他剛成立的時候排名第20排名第20本來是很好的一個狀態現在完全往後退了那我們接下來再看到就是接下來的部分呢台灣這邊排名比較前面的這些超級電腦的部分就是兩個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8633.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8647.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
兩個是氣象署的 兩個是國網中心的兩個氣象署 兩個國網中心然後一個是額蘇時 另外一個是輝達大概就是這樣子那以這個部分來看的時候呢我覺得台灣的算力其實是明顯的不足我剛剛舉這個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8648.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8668.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
就從前年的時候我在看在質詢就是我們國防中心預算的時候我就覺得整個這部分是不夠的可是雖然今年的預算有增加十幾%可是金額還是非常的小對於台灣要去成就這樣的一個算力中心我覺得是非常的不夠那所以這部分我希望說就國發會主委這一邊你能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8670.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8685.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
跟橫向聯繫跟我們經濟部跟我們國科會這邊一起來提升看怎麼樣子來讓台灣的算力是夠的因為算力不夠的時候AI要去發展其實是緣木求魚我覺得這部分在這邊特別提這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8686.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8715.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
謝謝委員我順便補充一下我們現在國科會在沙倫這邊規劃一個超級電腦中心會超過100的Peta Flow那另外在金創計畫以後再往上加那應該會額外增加100多的Peta Flow所以我們在金創計畫當中的時候要成立就是新的我們的算力中心是這樣子嘛 對不對在金創計畫接下來10年過程當中我們要建立兩個我們的算力中心 對不對國科會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8716.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8718.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這個部分我們就拭目以待那接下來的部分我覺得我還是要特別提到電力因為事實上算力器就是電力 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8736.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8751.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那我這邊要特別問一下郭部長因為坦白說你在就職之前的時候來拜訪的時候你就特別提到了說我們也建築媒體就是說你就是電力提供充足是最重要的一個關鍵從企業界來一定需要有電力嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8752.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8760.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
那當時你也提到河山研議其實是選項之一因為到時候要如果不夠的時候河山研議可是因為你吃了一頓飯之後我發現變了那這個部分我要講一個點就是說說實話你從企業界來接這個位置大家對你有很多的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8769.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8795.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
因為大家認為也許你可以把企業經營的概念跟務實的態度引進政府的部門所以我們希望你能夠堅持對的事情那我這邊要特別講其實整個河南的狀態其實整個世界也在改變你上次你有回答我說你們也在關注很多新科技的一個部分那至少目前為止在發展整個高科技產業當中包括微軟包括Amazon |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8796.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8811.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
包括openAI他們都已經很具體要自己去投入核電站那這個部分就是因為他們覺得電力供應非常非常的重要那你從高科技來我希望你對於電力的供應能夠更務實那你 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8811.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8827.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
去吃了飯之後你跟我們講說現在電力是夠的未來也都會夠即使碰到了AI的一個爆炸期之後還會夠那我希望你到時候到本辦公室做一個更細部的一個說明那我這邊也要給你一個鼓勵啦因為你去吃了飯之後呢這個政策改變的時候很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8829.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8854.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
竹科的朋友開始擔心你會做不久說實話因為他們覺得你會不適應可是問題是大家又希望你能夠帶來一些改變針對這個部分你可以簡單做一個回應報告委員我想這個河山的問題這個是有很多假設性跟前提我可能說話不夠精準不過我想這部分這個報告的部分我會更精準來跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8855.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8874.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
那麼這個新的核能剛才您所指導的這三家公司它是第四代的核能那麼我們對新的核能科技我們會持續的觀察持續的注意那如果它能夠得到我們國人大家的同意我想我們會有一些考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8876.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8900.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
所以說針對第四代合理反而是可以考慮的一個方向那今天我再補一個CNBC美國一個很重要的財經媒體他今天也特別報導了台灣面臨缺電的一個問題當我們整個全國都在熱情地表達支持半導體產業表達支持AI的部分可是我們也不能夠忽略這兩個確實都是吃電的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8901.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8917.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
特別的一個產業所以連美國的財經媒體都擔心台灣電力不夠的時候我希望部長這邊的時候也能夠加快的去做一些調整然後到時候給本辦公室一個很詳細的一個報告好不好好的謝謝 以上好 謝謝好 我們現在休息三分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8934.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8947.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
臺山三秒是GP,不是GP,臺山二秒是GP,不是GP,不是GP, |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8963.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8965.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
全球首發展委員會主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8977.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8983.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這個他都看不到捏,我們傳寄他都看不到啊我們是這隻啊我們是這隻的啊暗掉的對啊他沒有開啊他都沒開啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8993.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9009.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
不是,都沒看到,因為部長這樣弄,他不會去按那個,所以他剛剛都沒看到,我們傳他都沒看到啊,因為我在這邊看,他才,對,保證這樣看不到了,我們傳東西他就看不到,他這樣看不到了,對,你要按那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9019.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9028.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
有有有,我們有,我家群組有看到署長可是他看不到這樣夠大嗎?應該是要這樣這個這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9035.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9042.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
啊你看看那張圖好好好謝謝謝謝師傅那你那個框框框框框框框框框框框框框框框框框框框框 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9320.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9348.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
好謝謝大家辛苦了我們繼續開會來請就座我們現在請鄭天才委員請做詢答主席、各位委員有請那個國發會主委、經濟部部長好請兩位謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9350.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9377.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
再加上這個教育部外部次長大家好這個對於這個國部長對於核電又改變這樣的一個我還是要其免上次在這裡我也特別跟這個國部長提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9381.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9403.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
這個核能、核電它是一個專業的部分所以在你上次的報告裡面,郭部長上次的報告核安、核電議題三大前提核安要確保、核廢墟處理社會有共識尊重國會審議及討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9406.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9432.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
這些都是涉及到專業上次我也特別提到就算立法院要審議立法委員大部分沒有這個專業所以還是要靠專業請問一下郭部長你上任到現在有沒有跟台電各 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9434.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9463.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
負責核電的這些台電的人員討論過?負責核電的同仁是沒有討論過啦但是跟台電的同仁是幾乎每天都在討論好這個我建議部長要跟台電負責核電的同仁還有核能研究所要討論也許還有其他的相關涉及到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9464.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9491.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這個部會這個是涉及到專業的而且這個涉及到我們今天討論的AI各方面都是需要電力的這個我不是專業但是我認為應該是要去好好的討論這個當然我們之所以合適 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9493.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9512.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
這個整個關閉就是因為福島事故嘛日本的福島事故但是日本馬上就很快的就重啟了對不對他很快重啟所以他這個整個已經重啟了10部機組所以他從目前的 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9513.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9527.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
百分之不到百分之五在2030年提高到百分之二十之二十二這是他們日本對核電的一個處理所以這個部分是科技一直在進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9528.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9546.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
所以相關的這些過去引發的這些事故都也會因為科技的進步然後去解決所以這個怎麼樣讓人民安心產業更安心這很重要回到今天的主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9550.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9558.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這個經濟部的這裏面提到AI運用普及力能從目前12.3%提升至50%製造業以及2028年製造業AI運用普及力能從目前12.3%提升至50%這個是要這個積極的來達成這個目標當然這裏面 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9578.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9604.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
無論是經濟部的報告、國發會的報告或者是數發部的報告都提到AI人才、AI人才的培育百工百業的這些應用然後相關的認證、發展各方面而且是跨部會,確實是跨部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9606.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9629.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
請問一下部長還是或者是國安會主委這個跨部會誰來負責整合或是說來召集國安會主委你來回答可能比較適合是的跨部會是國安會會來負責國安會當然你的人力也是有限這個國安會負責很多的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9634.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9662.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
這個相關的這些各部會的業務都有關係中長程計劃的核定各方面審議人力怎麼樣去這個人力最多的書發部都請他們多發揮這方面的這樣可以節省你們的人力因為我是老公務員我會強調會比較考慮這個我是30年公務員會比較考慮這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9663.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9689.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
好 這個那個主委你就先回座部長還有那個教育部因為時間的關係這個我還是要談到原住民的部分畢竟原住民的立委我要讓部長還有教育部了解我過去在台灣省政府服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9691.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9712.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
20年然後經審之後到中央服務常務副主委當過6年多民國85年民國85年當時的省政府教育廳跟明智工專明智工專也就是王永慶這個企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9716.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9743.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
對原住民開設專班在明治公專最早的專班就是這個專班開設專班培育原住民的人才能夠到台售的企業所以當時這些人這些開設專班的人大部分現在都在雲林雲林的台售廠我講這個部分就是說AI |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9745.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9773.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
這個部分我上次也有跟部長提到AI原住民的人才怎麼樣能夠鼓勵他們所以這必須要產業跟教育教育部大專校院怎麼樣能夠合作也讓原住民的人才會往這個方向去發展因為這個原住民的教育我再講一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9774.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9801.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
沿漢的教育落差帶大專校園的出債協力出債協力高達30%的落差但是很多的學校尤其是科技大學它去開專班之後到產業界就有很好的一個發展所以這個部分要請 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9803.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9814 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
經濟部跟教育部這邊共同的來去合作及推動這個部長要不要先發表一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9815.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9837.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
報告委員我們的百工百業對AI的人才沒有訓練那麼高階的LLM的部分但是我們是訓練在微調跟使用上面那這個就是說它除了接受一段的訓練以後它就可以發揮所以這個是訓練很快它可能是半年的訓練以後就馬上可以再 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9838.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9866.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
馬上可以在它工作上面應用所以我才有辦法說訓練那麼多人那麼多人來以後因為透過AI來訓練AI我想那個是更快所以可以讓整個經濟提升提升那個價值減少那個loss這個就是我們推動AI的最大的目的好 那個教育部政策我先簡要說明剛才部長講得也非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9868.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9889.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
當初啊我那時候在省政府原住民行政局當副局長去協調這個教育廳然後這個明治公專其實他也不是正式的那個我所謂的這個專班啊也不是正式的協程啊他就是利用暑假開了那個專班 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9891.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9909.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
然後就去學會一技之長然後就到台塑企業是這樣所以剛剛部長也講了他不一定是要一個是一個整個大學的四年的學程部長可以往這方向去市長可以往這方向去努力嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9910.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9933.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
跟這個委員報告那其實像剛剛委員提到我們現在這個在技職這一塊我們有這個產業這個產業產息這2.0這個計畫他基本上就是要結合這個技高還有這個科大跟企業合在一起就讓這些學生其他學的技術因為以前都是學技術之後可能還要考試但是我們現在就是讓他可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9934.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9960.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
順利的在科大的即高畢業就可以就業然後可以領薪水然後一邊工作然後一邊也可以這個學技術然後在科大然後可以得到學位那這個部分的人數其實目前全台灣其實大概是7000多人其實一直在往上提升那我們未來也會繼續推動這一塊讓這個那特別是另外也跟委員報告就是說我們在原住民這邊其實在我們在目前在我們有25個大學我們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9961.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9982.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
這個設立25個專班那也給這些大學經費鼓勵他們就是在這邊給原住民的同學他有一些一好的training所以我想這部分是教育部是在持續的都一直在努力在做希望教育部能夠跟經濟部合作對這個AI產業的部分對原住民的部分能夠給他們這個學習的機會進入產業界的機會好不好 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9990.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10012.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
這個就是之前教育部我們推的是4加1現在又來一個3加2所以我們就很希望說委員所希望的就是你要針對需求者去讓他落實在產業當中這樣子不是只有口號啊所以你現在是改3加2應該要給委員說明清楚謝謝來接下來我們請張家俊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10020.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10037.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
主席我想先請國發會主委 劉主委我們再請劉主委主委今天委員會的這個主題聚焦在產業AI化請教一下主委您覺得目前台灣的AI指數在全世界的排名如何你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10041.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10063.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這有很多不同方面的排名目前根據英國的機構公布的2023全球AI指數的排名我們台灣排名全世界的第26名美國跟中國大陸分居第一名跟第二名新加坡是第三名根據這個排名我們還有很大的進步空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10065.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10086.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
尤其如何增加投資規模、增加企業數量以及實踐都是重要的指標這一點有賴國發會繼續去鬆綁相關的規範法規在刺激民間的投資再請教主委有沒有看過由人工智慧科技基金會進行的台灣產業AI化的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10090.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10116.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
這份沒有看過好 沒有看過那這個調查裡面主要我細節就不講了主要就是說開始將AI導入公司的運營流程裡面這個報導裡面說有將近54%都開始已經導入了這就證明了實務界總是跑在這個政府的政策之前那本席想請教的就是說行政體系AI化有沒有做過相關的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10119.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10133.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
行政體系AI化我目前了解應該是沒有是沒有嗎?那有沒有想過一些公部門在哪些方面可以很迅速的導入AI優化這個行政流程呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10135.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10154.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
這個部分就我了解就是各單位都有用到CHAP GDP然後去主要去做資料的搜尋報表的整理那本席舉幾個例子給這個國發會主委建議譬如這個交通管控系統可以透過AI適度的來減少員警的工作量 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10154.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10170.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
然後減少用路人的行車時間包括各級政府的1999通報系統也可以透過AI的運用來提高服務品質那包括各級司法單位的意識系統都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10170.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10185.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
用AI來協助書記官做筆錄甚至可以更公正客觀這都仰賴國發會去制定一套進程讓各級政府可以去遵守請問主委你覺得本席所提的這個您同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10187.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10213.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
這一點我同意也順便跟委員報告這些我過去在一些地方政府也規劃過類似的專案譬如說救護車經過的時候透過5G沿路就可以亮綠燈然後車上跟計程車連線就可以開始控制那有些醫院現在也開始導入這樣的系統所以希望未來提AI化的部分絕對不要忘記增列我們行政機關其實也迫切需要導入一些AI的這個系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10214.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10217.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
那我可不可以請經濟部長也一起上來請過部長部長就是說今天我們討論AI的議題那AI的伺服器耗電量是傳統伺服器的3至20倍以上大家都知道包括說這個GPT每天 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10238.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10241.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
在美國是要耗56萬度電大約是我們台灣這個每日4萬戶的平均用電量那這樣子來說我們的這個電力問題我也想部長跟主委必須要重視因為現在我們的半導體主要競爭對手就是韓國 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10259.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10261.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
韓國他現在一直在操作說我們台灣有能源問題所以我們政府一定要不要再粉飾太平了你看這麼多的韓國集體的在抹黑我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10274.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10276.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
不只韓國,連美國的財經媒體CNBC都報導身為全球半導體的重鎮台灣正面臨電力短缺的疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10296.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10318.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
那比爾蓋茲投資的泰拉能源也在昨天宣布要蓋這個新的核電廠那NVIDIA的黃仁勳執行長他在離開台灣之前他也說他說台灣的能源問題將會是他設廠的一大挑戰那你們都說不用擔心可不可以告訴我為什麼我們不用擔心能源問題報告委員我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10323.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10330.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
不用擔心的意思就是我的供電的容量跟需求我的供電還是大於需求的 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10331.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10355.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
就是您自己說的你們要推動這個AI未來會增加每年3%以上的用電那這個核電減少之後核三廠退役之後我們還會有個7%的電力缺口加起來有10%的電力缺口你現在告訴我不用擔心的理由到底是什麼我們為什麼可以不用擔心我們在之前就已經把這個都考慮進去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10357.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10358.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我們的基礎是在這幾年會一直上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10374.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10391.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
怎麼上來?有哪些基礎?可不可以一一跟我說明說有哪些發電的基礎是今年、明年會跟上可以補正10%的缺口之外還可以再支持AI產業來推動?報告委員我可以請台電的總經理跟您 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10392.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10410.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我想要部長說因為部長本來包括主委都告訴我說核能是選項之一結果最近你們兩位都轉向了我想要知道說兩位是不是有受到上級單位指示說不要再講你們支持核能了報告委員我們過去個人的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10418.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10423.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
言論我想這個是有時間的差還差不到幾天就變化這麼大你告訴我是因為時間差時空背景不一樣本席不能接受所以部長跟主委我真心希望你們不要違背你們自己的初衷你們是產業界的希望這是未來我們台灣放眼50年產業界的希望是決定在你們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10447.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10468.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
所以你們一定要拿出大刀闊斧的精神講出實話讓我們台灣面對能源有問題能源供應有問題的真相你不要在這裡告訴我說沒有問題我們都準備好了你們準備好的東西在哪裡在哪裡到目前為止從早上到現在沒有一個講得出說我們能源問題有解決的方法在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10475.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10493.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我們還是有發電的機組會在未來的45年不斷的上來所以我們到2030年的時候我們會有產生900多萬千瓦的電然後我們實際需求只有700 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10494.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10497.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
那部長我問你喔就在你上任之前你知道桃園兩個月跳多少次電嗎?報告委員桃園跳電跟電母50幾次耶而且還在全台灣就只有備載容量3%就要全台大停電的狀態之下了所以部長還有主委我真心希望你們要認真的去考慮這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10520.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10541.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
而且呢是不是可以向本委員會提出說你們具體的因應方式是什麼你們具體的告訴我們說不用擔心缺電的理由是什麼而不是在告訴我說不用擔心我們絕對沒有問題這樣子的話我不只是本委員會沒有辦法相信甚至整個國際喔我們的競爭對手韓國還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10545.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10548.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
這個美國他們要不要投資他們都在觀察我們台灣的這個能源的這個政策那是不是可以有一些具體的說法說服本委員會也說服這些外媒讓他們知道說我們台灣的確是才有競爭力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10562.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10581.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
包括委員我們會把這個未來每一年增加多少然後這個會降多少然後從哪裡增加從什麼機組增加對包括說這些機組到底它的它蓋到什麼程度它會不會有其他的原因去影響它供電的這個程度呢這個我們會提供好 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10589.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10597.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
謝謝 不知道每個人問的問題都一樣就期待你7月16號以前所公布的答案 謝謝接下來我們請邱智偉委員請做詢答謝謝主席 請這個速發部林次長請速發部林次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10620.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10641.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
市長這個賴總統在出席這個臺北電腦展他提出三項的政策目標是你們報告裡面寫的穩定供電穩定供電大概這部分主管機關是經濟部是台電請台電王總經理也一起來那個建制超級電腦那個市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10645.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10646.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
穩定供電這點,總統的要求有沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10659.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10673.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
在未來這幾年我們大概有十幾部機組正在興建或規劃中你要說中期短期一年中期3到5年長於10年你要做電力的規劃按照這個AI的這個產業的發展這個你我覺得這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10677.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10701.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
電力供應我最信任你啊!是!跟委員報告齁目前能不能穩定?我們趕工中光趕工中齁已經正在興建中的機組就有包括大潭7號到9號新達的1號到3號還有台中的1號到2號這麼多部的機組正在興建中你也來動用看看沒問題!沒問題啦!中期、長期都沒問題!還有包括抓標中的還有已經通過環評還沒有通過環評的短中長期為了AI的產業發展你也來動用看看沒問題!沒問題!請回座! |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10707.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10717.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
是這個建制超級電腦我們在2018這個我們誕生了台灣三對不對是那個時候我們投入多少的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10720.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10740.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我跟你講你不要東張西望我跟你講4.3億啦那時候是科技部提供給這個所謂這個國網中心4.3億在2018年建立這個台灣三嘛因為台灣三是台灣特有種嘛是他那時候的這個計算能量在全球排名是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10744.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10768.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
因為這個是國科會的主管變成你們的業務我跟你講但是那個國網中心現在不是由數位部負責的現在他的這個計算比當時在2018年上線的時候是全球95名那這個建制的超級電腦是你的工作還是這個國華會的工作是國科會的工作國科會來請國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10773.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10800.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
請國科會我剛剛講的數據您知道嗎我知道你都知道喔可是我好像問錯對象了喔不好意思難怪你這個這個你現在的農量啊在2024到今年年底你要到16 petaflop對不對到明年你要到100 petaflop到2028你要200 petaflop這種的這個超級電腦的算力啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10801.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10811.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
你在2018我們的計算能量是全球排名第95按照你的目標值你到2028才到200要投入多少經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10817.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10842.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
跟委員大概講一個數字我們最近有看過就是如果我們採用NVIDIA最新的如果要200 petaflop的話要一百多億嘛一百三十幾億那你是告訴我這個我剛提出的數據你的目標2028要到200 petaflop那這個你要建置這個算力提升算力要增加多少預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10843.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10866.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
就光電腦本身要一百三十幾億那當然你還要蓋Data CenterData Center裡面要有空調然後有一些其他的基礎設施那個還要另外三四十億所以加起來兩百億兩百億你到2028才提到提升到兩百Petal Flop 對不對是你那個虛擬的這個園區啊虛擬的園區本來是那個你們主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10871.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10880.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
有說的園區是虛擬的概念嗎?那個虛擬就是基本上是在寫軟體那個是那個速發部的主則你現在生態園區是虛擬的還是實體的?這個速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10884.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10897.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
跟委員報告現在我們政府的那個工作職長的分工是這樣子就是說國發部國發會這邊是要負責那個有硬體跟軟體都是他們都是要負責這邊都有規劃那我們那個數發部主要是負責軟體那因為軟體產業這個特性是 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10904.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10930.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
因為在上下游產業之間並沒有實體貨物的運輸而且現在軟體人才大部分都是...所以我的感覺就是說數位發展部、國科會跟國發會好像大家沒有完全整合大家工作雖然有分工但是沒有有效整合所以包括國發會的報告你的微笑曲線是失衡的 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10932.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10956.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
在這個製造的部分是最底端然後這個前端的技術研發它的條件非常好但是智慧應用全球佔比是非常低的所以這部分你說智慧應用的部分這是軟體的部分軟體的部分是誰負責的軟體部分是速發部對啊你速發部速發部你要怎麼樣把目前的佔比低於1%要提升到什麼目標值 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10957.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10974.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
也沒有一個目標值你現況智慧應用全球佔比是低1%嘛所以微笑體驗是不均衡的微笑嘛那你要把這微笑變得更美好的微笑不能這樣好像歪嘴巴的微笑 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10975.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10997.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
你這微笑曲線你要把它提升到多少目標你這微笑曲線才會更漂亮各位委員報告我們現在有一個目標那我們原來在這個部分佔全國GDP的比重是1.2%我們希望把它成倍到2.4%的GDP那全球占比你要大概要達到多少目標如果是這樣的話全球占比也是要翻倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10998.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11023.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
反正就是從不到1%變成2%目前的短期目標是這樣長期我們當然希望它能夠佔30%以上所以你覺得現在的微效曲線是不是一個不均衡的微效曲線目前是不均衡所以我們才要大力的讓它均衡那尤其是抓到我們可以高速成長的地方所以在軟體的部分是速發部要負責的是的我們會一起共同做我們開過兩次會議了那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11028.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11044.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
建制超級電腦我繼續請教你剛剛說的到2028要到200 petaflop如果這個算力到2028你們達標在國際上的這個計算能力計算能量那個評比大概是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11047.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11070.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
我請那個國防中心主任跟您報告報告委員 這個每年都在改變 照現在來看如果有200 petaflops大概可以列到前10名以內我們本來2018是全世界95名那如果2028到你們的目標200 petaflops可以到全球前10名 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11071.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11085.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
報告委員我稍微更正一下2018的時候台灣32號其實是排20名第20名是AI的MACHINE是這樣子嗎對你剛剛提的那個CPU MACHINE那你的目標2028前任到全球前10名在亞洲我們相對的這個競爭的國家比方韓國日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11088.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11109.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
他的這方面的這個計算能量有沒有超出台灣當然 兩個國家都超過台灣日本是多少日本他是超級電腦的大國所以他其實都是可以說上千的配套化所以這200會不會太未保守我個人意見是有一點但是我們現在已經在規劃擴充當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11111.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11126.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
所以你說你的目標就是建制超級電腦就是你的算力要提升嘛還有伺服器要增加嘛對不對你說所謂的重點就是伺服器跟這個算力那你算力他說這個市長就說這個國防中心主任就說這個太過於保守 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11127.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11154.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
那為什麼不能double到400呢?是是 跟委員報告因為政府的整體的科技預算還是有限制所以我們現在做的就是也是在尋求國際廠商的合作例如我們會跟國際這些大廠他既然要來台灣生產的話他是不是也應該要協助台灣建立超級電腦我們現在是朝這一方面那如果兩相加成的話應該會超過200 超過蠻多的我覺得這個目標實在太過於保守了你最起碼要double到400你看日本有多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11155.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11169.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
日本現況是多少?五百到一千五百到一千?我們二零二八才到兩百欸那太過去了吧?那我們怎麼樣跟其他國家競爭呢?另外部長齁,最後這個壓軸請部長,經濟部部長我們請郭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11177.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11203.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
部長我完全由你的報告來跟您請教這個經濟部在建立專屬生成式AI核心技術運用在台灣的製造跟服務業這個部分什麼時候可以完成我們的計畫應該是在這個你們要建立專屬生成式的AI核心技術這核心技術是什麼東西馬上會這個計畫馬上會送出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11207.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11235.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
那要花多少錢你們要建立這你們報告寫的我用你的報告來問你啊你要目標是要協助產業AI化產業包括傳統產業也包括中小企業對不對你要讓所有產業都能夠達到AI化所以你要建置我們自己專屬的AI核心技術那什麼時候會出來我們應該馬上今年會送出來但是我們大概要花兩億的這個預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11237.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11245.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
兩億就可以把這個生成式的AI因為我是最底層最底層的應用工程師兩億就可以讓所有產業讓它AI化 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11247.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11270.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
對 那是運用嘛 就是說一個它操作的訓練你講的還是太空泛 還是太抽象能夠更具體的把你們怎麼做 這個核心技術的內涵是什麼能夠達到預學效果 是不是可以有一個書面資料給我們然後你引進國際大廠 你目前有沒有口袋名單有有幾家目前有三家目前有三家 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11271.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11297.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那我就不問你是哪三家有時候是機密問題另外最後一頁第三頁你要說你的具體的措施要透過驗證或代小方式來普及擴散然後建立產業導入AI指引這個部分你們船上條例也要修10-1對不對讓租稅優惠能夠調整這個部分我來幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11300.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11320.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
我來幫忙你加快速度把它送進來那你要怎麼樣建立這個產業導入AI的指引這個什麼時候會出來一樣我們這個應該是在這個一個月裡面應該可以把這個計畫送出來那你製造業的AI普及加速那服務業的AI有沒有可能普及 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11321.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11337.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
服務業也是一樣我一直覺得你們偏重在製造業那對於就是中小企業對於這服務業這如何讓他這個產業AI化這也是很重要服務業的話我們大概會在那個scan他的那個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11338.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11364.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
所以一般坊間這些產業就說我們是重視製造業製造業裡面的高階或高科技產業傳統的製造業或中小型的製造業卻得不到政府的太多的關愛報告委員服務業或商業我們對盤點庫存或是銷售的都可以這個擴大宣傳讓這些中小型跟服務業知道說我們經濟部、政府幫他們做了哪些前瞻性的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11365.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11393.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
跟政策的作為﹐這個要廣為宣傳是好 謝謝好 謝謝好 接下來我們請陳昌明委員請做詢答卓鑫各位委員大家好 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11394.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11416.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
今天討論AI的主題臺北六月份天空都是在AI在飄我要特別深化我們的招委這個主題寫得好用詞非常精準為掌握生成式AI等關鍵的技術帶來產業的革命臺灣如何深化AI生態 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11417.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11446.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
充實AI人才與產業AI化，來促動我們台灣數位的一個轉型與應用AI的人才與產業AI化，來擴展我們產業的發展打造智慧的未來這是台灣兩個未來最重要經濟參觀的一個動力站今天莊委我特別稱讚你真的寫得好最重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11447.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11458.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
你厲害在哪裡?你把所有單位找過來不管經濟部、不管國安會、不管數位部、不管教育部、不管國安會因為我們的AI |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11461.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11481.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
這個產業化發展其實真的要做幾個單位通力的合作同心協力才有辦法打造打造我們未來的AI產業那今天我第一個要詢問的是誰我們臺電的王總經理你不曉得我把你請上來我們請臺電王總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11490.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11509.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
黃總經理你好你好大家都很擔心缺點我曉得你壓力很大但是我認識你那麼久我相信這幾年以來你電力公司一定要有充足的電力有沒有信心有信心包括AI的一個發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11509.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11527.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
有,我們這一部分都在盤點我們可能要用電量很大,要規劃好你不要讓我們郭部長下台,要小心、要努力、加油好不好電一定足夠,是好,你可以請回座那第一個我要來請教我們郭部長我們再請經濟部郭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11533.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11551.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
委員好部長好我請教一個這個比較沒有關心但是跟AI生存是未來發展有關心今天所有報紙都在講蓮花坑我們台版的晶片法案那軟體的話都為您享受到 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11553.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11569.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
經變化的一個優惠尤其蓮花哥所以代表台灣的IC設計那裡面說我們的政府只種硬的不種軟的那蓮花哥出來這個代表未來你很多生存式的應用裡面跟這個有關係喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11571.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11597.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
所以關於聯發科聯發科我們台新晶片的法案我相信要幫他解決他是台灣人之光在晶片領域裡面能跟美國幾個晶片的設計對抗的話他的成就實在不得了你要多協助你的看法是如何這部分我們會來幫忙真的要加強因為你未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11599.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11624.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
這個AI的軟體是非常重要重要的你就又再講你說AI這個產業我們可以在台灣吃五十年所以我們的AI的產業裡面軟體你要排名變成世界第二你有沒有信心軟體排名世界第二我想我們現在在半導體來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11628.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11651.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
這是你工作報告寫的不是我講的你不要忘了你可能忘了報告委員那個是工作報告裡面講的是IC設計世界第二不是IC設計IC設計美國人掌握在我們不可能說變成第二你那時的報告是講AI產業的那個生成那個應用的AI裡面的軟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11653.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11677.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
您的策略我都趴在旁邊你講過都忘記了要檢討一下好不好好這個你可以看你的報告那個我相信你講的沒有錯AI有兩個一個半導體一個生成式的AI就是運算力非常的重要那因為生成AI完成了以後它的應用那一端也是很複雜不是我們想像那麼簡單它還有各種參數來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11681.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11700.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
好不好,你加強努力那現在我要請我們國外委我們的劉志偉沒有問到的可以請回座我們請劉志偉我們問的話比較輕鬆部長回座指揮我給你請教一下我們行政院長的一個施政報告裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11706.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11711.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
你知道他說要來創新、創業、變化、創新、你知道嗎?知道,1500億,我們4年後要達到每年1500億4年後要達到每年1500億 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11719.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11733.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
的創新創業投資4年要達到1500億每一年對好好有認真因為我特別看了這一段你的創新創業你說要創新創業以零生態你每一年要編1500億連續5年還是4年 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11743.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11754.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
是到第四年後每一年有1500億是到第四年還是從現在開始從現在開始第四年那逐年會增加是每一年1500億還是四年1500億到了第四年的時候每一年1500億你講得很模糊我聽不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11762.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11778.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
是一年1500億,還是1500億?現在一年差不多700億,我們現在逐年增加,就每年多多少年多多少年?你給他依舊說的不一樣,你看他的施政報告,每年1500億,5年之內創造2萬個就業的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11784.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11802.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
好嗎?再談一談,把疫情給救掉,繼續為我們台灣做出貢獻,好不好?這一點很重要,我跟您請教,那個,世衛部,我來請回座,世衛部是誰? |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11814.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11826.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
現在可能跟你們國外會跟經濟部有關係剛剛你們講如果要開發一個生成式的AI剛剛我是聽到哪一個部大概講說200億台幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11830.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11858.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
報告委員,如果要做那個大型語言模型的話要開發一個生成式AI大型語言模型的話一千億台幣大概都不夠你是衛部的處長,你講的就實在所以你講的那幾百億台幣,那個人手是AI主權台灣既然是要做成AI生態關鍵的一個地區你曉得,一個生成式的AI |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11860.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11887.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
要做到像美國的輝達、微軟、Google、臉書的話還有OpenAI你曉得最起碼多少起跳50億美金起跳那還是普通的如果要做好了好大概100億美金所以我現在跟國安會主委、經濟部長這個是基本的所以要投資很大你要當為一個關鍵核心要帶動台灣的經濟成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11890.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11917.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
不要那麼小氣你去看他們我得到資訊最少50億美金做得好百億美金台灣要把這個起碼錢要花下去當為你一個訓練的中心我們有國際的水準不然你會被那幾個大公司控制死掉台灣永遠掌握在人家的手中也不能達成像我們經濟部長不是IC軟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11918.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11945.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
你的報告裡面是講關於AI未來的軟體裡面我們要進出我們不好意思搶美國但是你說排名第二我覺得你這個策略也是對的所以各位官員你們這幾個部最起碼50億起跳做得好要100億美金我是告訴大家不是我們想像的那麼容易好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11948.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11964.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
請回座今天討論到很多的AIAI的人才非常的重要現在你們真的我相信部長你在產業界都了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11965.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11988.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
那個劉子瑞你也都了解那美國大公司來那個薪水非常的高啊!咱台灣出名啊!咱是為人做家咧!講到台灣人是打工的咧!咱這裡知道這大公司來當然它的研發信息設在台灣我們都非常歡迎但是人才一定要教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11990.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12017.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
這個人才培養非常的重要像以前的QICOM我們7億美金本來要賠償的單位投資來他把薪水拉的高其他台積電我講了一次台積電去到他研發科的研發科的就開始他所有那些IC設計軟體產業一定造成這樣不要把台灣電工力很高跟世界每一個國家要合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12017.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12040.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
你被掏空都不曉得啊所謂台灣的人才自己培養、自己用不要說此材什麼用啊經用還是經用此材你們不要有這種想法這個是降生的世界啊我們好不容易訓練這麼多的人才出來怎麼隨隨便便可以流出去啊我希望你們特別注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12042.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12068.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
再來要運用外來的人才暫時我們所得稅那大概都超過五百萬以上的現在你看Amelia在招人都起碼幾百萬台幣以上五百萬的很多阿你扣稅40%所以這個地方特別注意一下人才如何跟國際交流都加強一下因為這個都是要硬算力的人才非常非常的重要謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12072.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12084.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
謝謝我們陳昌明委員貼心的提醒謝謝接下來我們請賴瑞榮委員請做詢答那麼我們中午不休息一直到今天會議結束謝謝請發言好 謝謝昭偉我先請那個劉朱偉跟郭部長我們請兩位 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12093.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12119.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
主委跟部長辛苦了總統其實在6月4號的臺北國際電腦展其實有提到未來的三大的發展策略是把台灣打造成AI島我先請教兩位國務部長就是AI這件事情其實經濟部也做了相當長一段時間那現在投入多少資源未來一定要投入多少資源來爭取讓台灣成為AI島甚至更多的國際大廠來到台灣來投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12121.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12141.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
報告委員我們現在就是積極的在對國外的大廠來請他們來台灣投資那麼研發中心或者數據中心那剛才我想順便在這邊補充一下我們在邀請國際大廠來台灣的時候因為我們現在的人才就可能剛才陳委員他在講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12143.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12167.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
就是怕擔心這樣子所以我們現在改變改變的就是說他要來台灣如果每一家公司要1000位人才我們都希望他帶進50%的人才進來這部分都是由我自己在溝通所以我們現在目前大概談了三家就是要來台灣設數據中心的那麼他應該是不會發生來我們台灣搶人才的這個現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12168.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12197.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
哪三家可以講嗎這個是保密那個可不可以請司長也補充一下吧我們過去來花的錢跟未來一定要投入的錢好不好我們應該花了相當多的經費了啦司長要不要補充一下我們如果是連包含外商補助的錢的話幫一些技術的一些研發外商的一些補助的話超過100億以上超過100億了啦包括所以現在在進行當中不管是輝達或是AMD都是啦政府都投入了錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12197.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12221.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
就像當年在半導體產業我們也投入相當多的資源然後引進來台灣這個也在做部長我也希望未來持續好不好就是說一方面當然是國家資源但我們希望把AI島建立起來的話就需要投入更多的資源我們希望這個持續來進行那再來問一下國發會主委好不好國發會未來我們再請主委主委對包括國發基金包括一定要投入多少資源來做這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12222.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12242.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
國家基金目前我們是已經同意目前是同意速發部我們投入第一個是100億的創業創新基金專門給AI的部分那另外其實我們另外之前有有Funding這個經濟部大概100億那現在用了7億還有90多億所以投入200億的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12243.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12264.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
之外我們今年也匡列國發基金的投資可以有到188億所以這些都可以拿來運用那其中專注AI的至少有100億如果我們要落實這樣的AI導的概念的話事實上當然政府的投入重要的然後看國發基金還有報告基金或相關資源都是重要的一環我們希望來整個匡列出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12265.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12279.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
那我要提醒的是這個到現在為止其實全台灣當然是不缺電但是其實北部電力上是有缺口的電力上有缺口南部的在如果沒有更新那個統計其實有470萬的一個缺口北部 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12281.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12304.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
臺灣的南部的部分,高雄是有,我也講過很多次,高雄用電60%,40%是中宋北宋那現在還在,包括新達跟大嶺燃氣機組都還在興建那我要講的是說,就是不斷的提醒這件事情,區域均衡發展上不要讓南部在電力上面不斷的供應的同時的時候,產業的聚落都形成在北部 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12304.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12326.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
所以現在包括大家在談的很多不管是從輝達或者是AMD的部分都在談的這個研發中心的投資的時候那我們希望這些思考不要比如說像輝達現在傳起來有可能大家考慮的點是臺北、台南、高雄但我們希望他能夠更清楚的知道我剛剛講到政府其實是有給予補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12328.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12353.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
這個補貼的那我們希望這樣在引導的過程中也要不斷讓他們知道說一方面政府希望南北兩大核心的發展這個AI生態系統是應該南北聚落多去完成它這個才是北部相對容易完成但是南部會比較辛苦一點但是也就是因為這樣而政府要施加一些力道包括電力的部分當南部這麼充分供應電力說AI也是相當耗掉相當多的電力的時候那更應該往 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12354.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12377.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
南部來移動。」我先問一下部長同意這樣的看法嗎?報告委員 我想我們經濟部的立場就是所有的外商要來台灣我們都歡迎到達哪一個城市我們尊重他的選擇不過我在這邊跟委員報告廠商他在選擇的時候不會只考慮水跟電他考慮的是他可以找到多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12378.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12404.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
所以水、電、人才包括場地都是重要的一些句對但是這個東西一定要不斷的長期的去做如果我們不有意識去處理的話所有的東西基本北部的聚落是容易形成的所以我還講的是既然國家有資源下去的時候南部的聚落也形成的時候但我會請蘇發波為什麼我們現在講南北兩大AI的聚落也就是這樣希望他能夠有一個形成好的一個聚落的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12405.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12431.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
那如果只是順著所有的話那基本上你可以預期基本上多數都會在台北所以我還希望說這件事情部長要很有意識的那我也知道現在經濟部有一些計畫在進行當中我也希望部長能夠承諾既有進行的計畫不要去改變跟影響到好嗎我們不會去影響既有進行的計畫進行這種計畫務必要去落實來完成是的好那接下來要請教一下主委因為時間非常有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12432.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12446.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
主委認同我這樣的看法嗎就國發基金的投入之後我也希望南北兩大那我知道現在國發會跟數發部有在進行一些南北的這個AI的生態系統AI生態園區的這樣的一個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12448.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12467.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
主委,朝這個方向來規劃,讓實體園區讓南北形成兩大聚落,主委同意這樣的看法嗎?是的,均衡台灣是總統的政策,所以我們會落實這個政策實體園區其實是個政策嘛,我要講啦,當時我知道有一些壓力之後又變成虛擬,如果走為虛擬的話,那其實就是空的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12468.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12488.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
其實它一定要是實體而且台灣的兩大聚落必然是南北兩大聚落北部以台北為核心包括到新竹這一塊一定是一個聚落南部一定是以高雄跟台南為核心的一個聚落而現在不管是從亞灣或者是台南的這個南科的園區等等其實都看得出來其實已經有聚落形成了包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12489.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12506.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
臺積電的一個進駐等我認為那個聚落已經形成那現在是要政府更加大那個力道那我也希望在實體園區的部分國發會未來能夠大力支持這個實體園區南北兩大聚落完成主委可以嗎?可以可以好 這個請主委那個啦好 兩位請坐我接下來請教一下速發部好嗎?副主委啦請回座我們請速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12513.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12538.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
次長請教一下現在的這個南北的AI生態園區的規劃的方向目前是怎麼樣就如同剛才郭部長所講的其實我們在發展科技的時候最重要是人才對於軟體業來講尤其是這樣子那軟體業的主要的對於那個廠商的設廠的那個應該說設公司主要的考量不是在土地跟廠房而是在於人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12539.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12553.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
而人才總是會選擇他覺得最好的地方他最想住的地方去居住我們看美國的那個軟體產業的興起其實也是走這條路那至於說這個聚落的形成我請教一下南北的AI生態園區的設施這個持續在進行當中嗎什麼時候會把它規劃出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12559.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12585.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
跟委員報告因為我們的數發部負責的是軟體那軟體的尤其軟體產業這個地方我們並目前重點是在於生態而不在於園區那國發會這邊會有整體考量因為國發會這邊會那這件事情是由數發部主導還是由國發會來主導就是如果包含硬體的話是由國發部主導如果是單單軟體的部分的話是由數發部來主導那是由誰整體的總的規劃是由誰來他一定有一個還是主委講一下好了好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12590.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12608.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
整體總的部分我們現在正在是我們這邊在主導那整個均衡在北、中、南都會我希望規劃出來的方案給我們一份參考好不好那我也希望國發基金再大力支持這樣的一個計畫好的再不影響那個保密原則我們會送過去好 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12610.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12627.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
然後再來我也要提醒其實我們現在的包括半導體學院這個不管是中山大學的甚至清大包括陽明交大的部分其實都在高雄也設置了這些半導體學院我覺得善加運用這樣的一個優勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12628.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12648.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
那我要講的是其實人才的聚落其實一定是不斷的政府有刻意去引導教育部的次長在這邊我也希望持續的支持南部的這個人才的一個養成的部分不要讓南部永遠只是作為工業不管是電力或者是石化或者是這個港口所需的東西都不斷的供應而已但是在於 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12649.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12673.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
新產業的形成或人才聚落的形成的時候反倒缺乏力道我認為那個對於整個南北的均衡發展是不利的我希望這件事情國發會主委還有各位部長、次長要不斷地放在心上我認為這個才是執政的一個重要的價值位置都會來來去去但是未來怎麼樣讓台灣留下一個均衡發展讓人才能夠留在每個地方事才事所的發展我認為這個才是執政上最重要的價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12674.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12703.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
好不好 與各位共勉啦好 謝謝我們一定會在北中發展均衡還好主委你講北中南我剛才聽了心驚膽跳一直南北南北AI生態園區我們台中跟南跟北都一樣都符合最好的條件北中南才能夠均衡還好你講到這一點好 因為你有答應我台中一定要納入 謝謝接下來我們請賴司保委員請做詢問 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12709.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12715.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
謝謝主席一切各位先進有請經濟部長、郭部長我們再請郭部長委員好部長你好你上台之後不斷地說不缺電不缺電我就給你看一張圖這是台電的圖備轉容量 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12740.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12751.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
在過去已經有7天低於10%了最近的6月9號今天是6月12號6月9號備轉容量9.49備轉容量284.5萬千瓦 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12764.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12776.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
夏天還沒有到勒前幾天我們梅雨季節天氣很涼快用電來掃勒你已經有7次低於10%我就問你你說不確定那為什麼你們對台塑的賣鳥一號機還要給它延長一年勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12789.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12802.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
他是藍美的他把他蓋成藍氣體的結果你們就是怕沒電60萬、千萬趕快賣掉再延一年到明年底你要不要回答一下報告委員這個低於10%大概就是這麼一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12810.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12833.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
那我們的意思就是說這個在10%左右這個因為還可以容許幾個機組他如果有狀況的時候這個是這個這些備載的狀況這樣所以應該不至於在這個情況之下會跳馬上夏天喔夏天日和現在超過30度喔來我就納悶了納得悶了部長聽好喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12840.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12850.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
河山廠的1號機裝置容量有多少?你告訴我台電應該知道,打發試一下98萬千萬我這裡數字95萬,將近100萬這個東西我們法都給你改了讓你可以申請不要前面5年結果你後來丟棄了你原來講河河山修完完畢以後就可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12867.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12867.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
演繹 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12898.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12923.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
你還有意思說你希望能夠做滿四年你知道哪一個經濟部長做滿四年你告訴我我是回答說一個任期是四年你查一查那跟院長一齊院長沒有做過四年的除了蘇貞昌第二次會過過去從2000年以後的院長有的一年多賴清德兩年左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12924.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12938.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
跟院長一起的啊這個啊,你講這個話要坐滿四年有一點類似喔這句話沒有很老聽啦但是我的感覺就這樣我的feel就這樣叫青蛙打哈欠好大的口氣你知道嗎跟著院長走啊院長沒有四年的除了蘇貞昌是很奇怪的剛好這樣讓他轉告幾乎沒有四年的有的一年有的兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12953.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12979.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
跟著院長走你說你要做四年這代表你也不進入狀況然後你現在我們感覺到是SRF你怎麼突然又發一個可以推薦函呢你們可能又發給桃園那三家可以進推進這個推進它進桃園觀音呢桃殼呢為什麼你要發我請教你為什麼你要發 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12981.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12995.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
這一部分我們不是主管單位桃園才是主管單位你還被罰了我沒有罰我們只是他來這個場來訴願然後我們透過訴願委員會然後把他退回去這樣他是訴願委員會決定的不是經濟部決定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13008.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13031.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
書院委員就是你經濟部的底下的沒有沒有沒有那個報告委員這個書院委員會一共有11位委員其實底下都是經濟部的官員沒有經濟部的官員只有兩位其他的九位是外面的學者跟專家主要是你們主導我跟你講我們的立法委員國民黨的立法委員有一個將軍陳永康上將他推了 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13037.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13061.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
兵推他講了一個概念不要再擔心老共打我們能夠撐多久啊什麼之類的重要是一打仗台灣能不能撐電能不能撐兩天48小時醫療能不能撐48小時我就去詢問你我發現國安局長問了他說你才有答案能不能撐48小時就打仗的時候撐48小時供電無虞請你回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13065.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13087.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
這一部分我不是專家我沒有幫我回答打仗的時候打仗的時候打仗的時候我想這個是由國家調度的不是經濟部可以調度的我剛才去國安局局長問他說經濟部管的要經濟部長回答所以我來這裡問你那這個如果以電網的韌性我們是可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13089.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13117.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
兩48小時撐得住是撐得住是因為電很重要喔電如果撐不住的話你醫療就有問題血漿就有問題冷鏈就有問題沒有問題你參加過兵推沒有兵推沒有沒有有機會參加兵推請你特別注意這一關現在大家都覺得說兩岸打仗怎麼樣其實兩岸打仗電最重要電的韌性電最重要我 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13119.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13142.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
這是臺電董事館告訴你的啦我請你回去study一下好好做功課啦不要張大口下做死年如果你這樣子完全沒有自己的一個mindset然後隨波逐流這樣你是做不死的啦真的我都覺得你shake it shake it好好加油吧謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13144.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13155.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
剛剛賴司保委員講的是推薦文你們回答的是蘇院委員會的結果所以雞同鴨講還是要給賴司保委員說明清楚 謝謝接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員請做詢答10分鐘 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13167.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13173.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
主席、在場的委員先進、列席的正午江蘇黨官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生有請我們國發會劉主委和經濟部郭部長請兩位 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13181.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13201.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
主委好部長好來先請教部長部長最近你很紅我們提到AI它的應用跟生產耗能大不只它的製造它的硬體的運作跟冷卻用電需求量很大那這裡有一個綠色的民主制指出我們台灣到2023的工業耗電佔了55%那到了這個台積電它的半耗力產業到2021年到2030年要增加兩倍多是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13210.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13238.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
那這麼大的數量我們來看一下當然是這麼多的半導體產業台積電要蓋7座3奈米預估到2030年台積電用電占全台六分之一經濟部有把握嗎有有把握好那你還告訴他一個好消息因為這個各縣市首長都在搶回答你說沒有關係沒有關係2030年至少還有10座的資料中心要建置對不對大家趕快去分那請問一下這10座資料中心耗不耗能用不用電 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13239.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13259.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
耗能與用電那好 那請教一下那就是為了滿足未來半導體製造還有人工智慧的硬體運作及冷卻需求你們有對未來的用電需求做了評估了嗎有那也知道要怎麼樣去把目前的供電提高到未來的滿足對未來的需求有做了一個計畫了嗎有做這樣的這個假設了好 那我就開始來問一下了 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13260.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13286.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
2030年您是說不會缺電除非明年起AI用電暴增我這個不太清楚去年我們國家台灣大概用了2821度多的電那其中的再生能源占了大概267億多大概占比大概9%是這樣子那請問到了2030年你預估台灣的用電需求要多少2030年台灣需要用到多少電我聽說是3400億度是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13288.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13313.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
數字正確吧是那這當中的綠電要多少綠電需求我們的規劃是30%30%大概就是408億度的電好那從不到300億度要增大到400億度那怎麼來呢我們往下看那目前國際企業要求RE100供應內要100%的綠能那這其中的綠能有1、2、3、4、5你覺得台灣都有具備嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13316.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13324.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
目前生智能是比較少的有潛力風光不錯水利在發展當中那有包含核電嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13326.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13354.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
R100R100沒有包含所以其實大家要去關心的未來因應台灣的產業的外銷需求我們需要的綠電不包含核電英文過第三次了接下來那請問你估計國際企業在台灣建制數據中心及高科技產業的廠商要合乎R100的再生能源需求未來的綠電供應足夠了嗎你如何來提高這些綠電滿足他們的需求報告委員經過我們的盤算是足夠的足夠那有什麼手段嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13356.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13376.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
我們會把綠電需求的廠商我們就給他綠電那不需要綠電的廠商我們就給他其他的綠電綠電不夠賣目前那要買綠電買不到那目前有一個說法說1000度的綠電被台階拿走900度了中小企業買不到為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13378.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13405.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
這是在過去啦那報告委員這是我來了以後我們現在馬上要成立一個綠電平台是所以我想這些中小企業都買得到好 那我們來往下看其實呢大廠購電的合約可以讓風光業者、風電業者去融資這您知道吧目前光電、風電它需要很大的融資嘛是所以這些購電契約它可能要用專業融資你知道為什麼中小企業拿不到這個購電契約嗎因為銀行不同意貸款那怎麼解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13408.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13421.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
我封電廠我要跟銀行融資嘛我拿上市會公司購電契約我可以拿去做專案融資中小企業來跟我買電打的契約沒有用怎麼辦這部分我想我們經濟部會來處理我想我們會給他一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13425.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13444.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
他可以他也可以賣給我們會可能會去撮合一下所以你們希望用電價分級的方式來處理是這個目的嗎是最近就是說你們就買綠電、一般電、低碳電分開來需要綠電的去買你中小企業就算沒有辦法去跟風電業者取得購電契約你都可以透過這個平台來購買是不是這樣意思是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13445.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13472.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
好 那就要明白的說出來 不然大家搞不清楚為什麼店家要分級是看我家的用電多寡還是用什麼方式好 往下看所以現在來請教我們國發會的主委我們風光發電機的建設性我們供應機載用電是不是要輕能輕能是我們的一部分一部分 儲能的部分輕能很重要對好 那你目前台灣的輕能除了儲能之外還有待發展的空間各部會怎麼去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13474.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13494.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
我們目前除了這個儲能的部分以外我們其實跟中研院現在也會跟他有一些計畫做來練習的發展那另外其實我們最近也在探尋地熱因為菲律賓就已經有一點多Gigawatt已經在運轉的地熱所以這些都是多元力的人是我們現在在探尋的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13494.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13518.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
您說得很好,多元力能這是我搜尋到的上一頁包括電解海水去置氫包括把天然氣轉成綠氫或藍綠氫以及我們要燃料電池要來作為我們的儲能設備很重要的一個基礎,是不是這樣?是的所以國科也要盤點這些技術了,是嗎?是的好,最後所以未來氫能的發展和技術補助要從基礎設施切入有沒有大幅的擴大民生需求有沒有具體的計畫? |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13520.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13537.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
目前我們這個部分因為它的成本比較高我們還是在實驗階段但是只是預備否未來比較長期的發展好 最後再請郭部長請經濟部能夠盤點未來國際企業及台廠需求就符合R1-100再生能源供給是否足夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13537.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13562.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
提出一個符合R100增增能源的商業模式評估。」可以嗎?可以就是商業模式我剛剛講到了小企業買不到電你有商業模式怎麼樣讓他買得到綠電第二個請國發會研議未達成2050淨零碳…對不起淨寫錯了能源結構的轉化行政院推動汽能產業的部會分工部會有分工可以提出來評估後給本席嗎?好沒問題好謝謝部長謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13565.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13573.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
接下來我們請張智倫委員、張智倫、張智倫委員我們請陳沛宇委員請發言10分鐘 謝謝4分鐘喔4分鐘好 謝謝主席有請國發會主委還有經濟部長 謝謝主席我感覺我身分清曉好 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13591.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13615.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
請兩位謝謝那部長好那主委好部長我之前已經跟您請教過關於中小企業的部分那我今天要繼續針對中小企業在AI這個面向要拜託國發會跟經濟部在你們所有所有人都只提到黃仁勛所有人都提到Supermicro的時候大家不要忘記了台灣的經濟主力是所有的中小企業這件事情我相信部長跟主委一定有放在心上對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13617.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13646.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
在賴總統的競選政見當中他有特別提到一定要在走向人工智慧島上的這個路上不要忘記台灣的傳統產業還有相關的服務業所以今天我雖然只有4分鐘但是我想要快速跟兩位請教在你們日後的政策規劃當中或是眼前已經在分配的資源當中是不是有協助到中小企業深化AI生態系還有相關AI轉型這件事情不要讓中小企業在這整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13647.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13669.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
在這個浪潮當中他們已經開始感到恐懼跟焦慮不知道政府將即將如何協助他們好嗎來下一頁我想要談的是傳統產業有非常多的樣態而且樣態上他們所需要的AI的協助截然的不同但是經濟部跟國發會你們在盤點相關政策跟資源的時候目前是不是已經開啟跟相關中小企業或是傳統產業的團體對話了呢已經開始了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13672.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13677.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
還是只有跟所謂的大廠、大公司、國際大廠碰過面?」我想要積極地問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13679.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13706.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
我們這邊是有跟一些中南部的業者開始在溝通了解他們的需求這個是中南部的業者嗎?可能是單一?都是中小企業這個我覺得沒有問題主要是均衡台灣是總統政策包含產業的均衡所以我們對中小企業目前是有在明確的規劃但是聽起來好像沒有更具體的東西那經濟部這邊呢?報告委員經濟部這邊是先了解這些業者他們的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13707.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13715.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
那因為這個智慧化、智能化我想我們瞭解他的需求我才會針對他們的需求下去講那我們就離開科技我們來回到所謂傳統產業或者是服務產業這件事情那我就先講出結論好了我希望經濟部跟國發會必須要積極 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13727.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13740.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
整合你們必須要一起去想如何促進在地產業升級因為這也可以積極協助他們缺工的問題我相信兩位來自業界一定非常清楚傳統產業面臨缺工的困境最後提供策略性的協助我就先講結論我們辦公室之後會積極跟國發會和經濟部討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13743.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13772.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
這個相關的Discovery紀錄片裡面談到台灣的創新能量非常的強他們表現在智慧機械上這件事情我相信你們來自產業一定明白那目前的困境就是台灣這些中小企業有沒有辦法承擔支付這樣的研發經費或者是他們有沒有辦法找到相關的研究單位協助他們去客製化他們的需求我相信一定有困境那例如說我時間有限我就不再舉例我以我在教育文化委員會最理解我們之前在推動的一個法案就是營養午餐法 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13773.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13788.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
營養午餐產業大量的缺工而且很多中年的或者是已經靠近60歲70歲的很多阿姨還有叔叔伯伯在現場他們要搬運他們要煮食然後他們有非常多細緻的工作有沒有機會透過協作機器人去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13789.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13815.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
我相信是有的台灣也有很多產業我們就不一一點名這些公司我想你們都非常清楚所以我要說有沒有機會你們真的針對不同業種的需求去理解他們去傾聽他們甚至幫他們找到適當的資源因為你們要跟大公司對話真的非常非常容易可是我們非常多中小企業的團體跟朋友如同您說的在中南部的很多業者我相信他們現在非常非常的焦慮那我就不再一一舉例了我想要問 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13815.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13844.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
目前我們可以提供給他們的我覺得是技術上他們非常不熟悉相關技術還有相關的成本他們到底要花出多少錢能夠得到多少效益他們也是沒有把握的所以我這邊想要拜託國發會跟經濟部可不可以協助他們在三個部分一個是專業的顧問服務第二個是經費補助第三個是我們有沒有機會協助他們產業升級創新發展讓他們持續在台灣這個島上做自己喜歡而且做自己擅長的中小企業這件事情不要被AI的浪潮甩在後面 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13845.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13872.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
謝謝委員的這個方向指導 謝謝所以你要不要多說一點就是我們會按照這樣的去做好 那我相信相關的政策我們日後會有機會再討論那國發會這邊呢剛剛在不同的委員的質詢當中你們提到有100億、100億、188億有非常多的經費都已經開始要動用下去了那在中小企業相關AI產業升級人才這些照顧上呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13873.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13892.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
這個部分我們也會來強化再跟委員回覆好,我們希望有沒有機會在一個月內我們跟國發會跟經濟部開啟相關會議跟討論有機會在一個月內嗎?一個月應該可以可以,國發會可以,那經濟部呢?可以好,可以,謝謝,謝謝主席,謝謝部長跟主委,謝謝好,謝謝接下來我們請林一錦委員請做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13908.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13916 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
謝謝主席 有請國發會劉主委、經濟部郭部長、國科會林副主委、教育部葉次長好 請以上四位 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13920.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13941.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
我們台灣需要民主AI的創新需要在AI的使用上牢記民主自由不歧視、不侵犯他人人格權的精神這是昨天卓榮泰院長在院會答詢的時候對我國AI發展期許的回答本席今天想在經濟委員會中強調我國在AI產業的發展除了產業聚落的群聚效應 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13947.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13976.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
以外以及技術持續的提升．我想必須要留意的就是開發者以及使用者的人文社科素養要發展以人為本的AI本席上週在教育委員會質詢國科會的時候就提醒國科會在Tide的生成式AI對話引擎的時候要避免歧視跟偏見的出現並且要在AI監管的法制作業上建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13976.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13995.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
好智慧財產權的完善保護．既然智慧財產權的業務是經濟部主管．那就要請問部長．AI生成的創作．在智慧財產權的保護上．有什麼需要法規補強的部分．或者說哪些情況．又不應該落入智慧財產權的保護的範疇呢．部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13998.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14024.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
這部分的話我想我們會研擬我目前是沒有收到這方面的關心所以我想我們會回去以後會來討論這件事情再給委員一個報告包括入納入智慧財產權法規的補強跟哪些範疇是不用的好那我想這幾週AI的旋風席捲了全台那不少委員都希望AI的產業園區能在各自委員的有 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14024.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14045.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
有擁有科學園區的城市裡頭在這裡我也想給予經濟部長跟國發會的主委一些建議目前擴建中的南科三期臺南市政府目前有發布新聞稿指出我們這個地方都市機能、交通建設、水電的供應都非常的充分、無虞 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14045.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14062.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
那台南市相關的上下游的產業垂直的產業的整合也非常完整具備半導體整個企業發展最好的利基所以台南市政府跟我們所有台南市民都歡迎半導體跟高科技的廠商來台南設廠所以請問經濟部長還有國發部的主委還有國科會的副主委南科三期的AI生態系這個建構是否可能那產業的AI化 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14074.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14094.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
可不可能在南科來加速實現?我想我們如果能夠把這些這個區域的環境打造成AI最佳的環境的話應該業者都會去就是說花若盛開蝴蝶自來 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14095.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14112.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
因為南科確實現在整個半導體產值已經超越竹科這個副主委應該非常清楚所以我想這部分再請多參照一下台南這塊沃土那我另外最後是想請教教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14113.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14115.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
讓AI的開發者以及使用者具備相關的人文社科素養希望科學的發展快速之外AI的發展能兼顧人文社會關懷的基本素養 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14132.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14157.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
那未來教育現場會大量的使用AI那這也應該是個趨勢所以想要請教一下說有沒有把握在日新月異的這個AI發展的浪潮下我們可以推出相對應的教育政策提供正確的AI使用的這個教育同時卓友院長期待的民主AI的創新這個概念未來會不會融入在教育裡面那目前的規劃如何?次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14158.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14187.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
我想跟委員報告就是說這個我們目前其實都有在加強這個資訊素養跟倫理的課程我們想這件事是非常非常重要就是他在用科技的時候怎麼樣這些用科技要用在好的地方那另外其實在中小學這部分我們在8月底的時候會公布這個數位教學指引的2.0這裡面其實就會有談到就是說幫他數位的還有AI的這些很多這些關鍵的資訊素養數位素養這些孩子們應該要懂的然後老師要怎麼樣去教育小孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14189.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14215.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
從小養成到一個正確的觀念他長大的時候再用這技術就不會歪掉最後一小題我們如何讓AI的人才留在學界而非在一窩蜂的湧進產業界因為學界如果人才有的話我們才能培育下一代所謂的人才培育所以請問次長你對於這部分一窩蜂要湧進產業界你有什麼解方嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14216.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14242.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
我想這個大概就是還是要透過這個攬柴跟這個彈性心智那另外我想這個其實AI的這個師資的培育其實我想特別是在高教裡面的這些老師這其實也是我們未來可能透過這博士班這邊很多的一些力度下去讓更多的同學有志於學術的可以往這邊走這是我們也是現在在做的事情好 謝謝次長 謝謝主席 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14247.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14252.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
謝謝接下來我們請羅明財委員羅明財羅明財委員不在現場我們請蔡育宇委員請做詢問好謝謝主席那我們是不是請國發會留主委好我們請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14276.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14288.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
委員午安各位好 嗯 主委那因為今天這個議題是這個AI的議題那這幾個禮拜來大概整個台灣都是席選了這個AI的這個浪潮齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14290.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14310.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
事實上今天也是討論了包括針對AI的產業應用甚至人才培育講了很多我想先就教主委就AI的這個產業公部門部分有哪些是公部門可以開始來採用AI的技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14312.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14338.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
跟委員報告公部門很早就開始使用生成式AI做一些資料的分析整理跟查詢所以國科會也因為這樣它有因為它這也有安全跟效率兩個構面安全面國科會有提出了一個使用生成式AI的參考指引確保在資料上的安全那另外在政府的應用部分目前是速發部有一個智慧政府辦公室專門在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14340.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14363.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
這個整個公部門數位化的跟智慧化的部分就說公部門部分當然是用生成式AI嘛那這包括說未來很多公部門的一些政策的制定那甚至說一些包括說可能來立法院來做的最簡單的這樣的一些報告是不是都未來會用AI然後來做基礎的一些架構 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14364.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14380.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
是的 各單位就我的我們上次稍微大家聊了一下幾乎每個部會都在使用中每個單位都在使用然後速發部也特別政府特別成立了智慧政府辦公室專門在推動我們整個智慧政府的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14381.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14397.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
所以現在公部門的教育訓練這一塊就是說大家都會使用嗎?還是說會用的人會用,不會的人就讓他們自己去學習?以本會而言,我們普遍都有全部都有上過課全部都有上過課,所以大家都大概會去使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14397.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14415.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
好那這第一個齁那第二個在就叫這個主委就是說因為這個是生成式AI嘛齁他主要還是所謂的生成式就是說必須他的生成要有他的未資料齁所謂的未資料那這部分會不會有涉及到政府的 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14416.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14442.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
這個機密的一些資訊外洩的一個問題那如何去預防謝謝委員 這裡面有兩個構面就像如同我前面講的當我們在查詢整理資料的時候怎麼樣做到安全國科會已經給了一個指引那第二個部分是就我了解國科會現在正在做一個AI基本法它的目的就希望做到主權AI讓台灣的資料能夠保存在台灣而不會被其他地方拿到 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14444.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14466.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
這個進一步說明當然我們可以請國科會來補充,但是就我了解目前政府很積極在做這個步驟那如果涉及到機密資料已經跑進去了呢?如果涉及到真的有一些屬於比較機密、機敏性的結果它已經在AI的基本資料裡面,但是你也沒辦法把它抽離啊那這部分你要怎麼樣去做未來的預防? |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14468.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14482.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
這裡以政府目前現在是有在做資料治理的管控那這個資料治理管控是不會讓機密資料進去的所以一開始就必須一開始先管控好嗎我想這個應該也不只台灣啦全世界大概都 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14482.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14484 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
主權AI的確是目前台灣很重要的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14507.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14521.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
在第三個再來就叫這個主委那當然是說台灣過去也有在發展類似台版的這個叫做CHAT、GDP的台版的叫做TIDE |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14523.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14546.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
那這樣的一個泰德的這樣的一個他的跟確實比較不一樣是他比較靠台灣B啦他的使用的可能是以繁體中文然後可能比較有一些台灣的一些語言本土語言的一些特色那但是呢畢竟市場有限所以如果要打向國際的話他可能還要更多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14547.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14547.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
所以,未來, |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14555.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14579.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
臺灣的政策會在這一個這一個開發自己的這個AI的軟體還是說因為畢竟現在黃仁勳他也是帶著臺灣的產業對不對所以還是我們就是說在這兩個抉擇上我們還是要發展自己的開發自己的軟體還是說就讓他順其自然業界本來這個業界本來就是強者很強如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14581.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14607.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
不夠強的話自然會被淘汰那這個國發會你們的具體的策略是怎樣這個部分我有整個看過TED的展示那的確台灣需要有自己的工具原因是他不論是用台語也好或者是用中文也好他所得到的資料的精準度都會比國外的產品好 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14608.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14623.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
那英文的部分國外本來就會有所以呢基本上它會兼具英文兼具中文兼具台語那它所能夠服務台灣人民的資料查詢的精準度我看到的展示都會比國外的來得好很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14623.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14639.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
那對服務國民、人民的一些政府服務也都可以做得會比較好一點所以泰德他的優勢就是說他比較本土化啦可能是我們的台語啦或是我們比較講的比較一些方言的東西他這一套軟體他是有辦法掌握的 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14639.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14668.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
但是它的掌握度總是在專業度上可能會不夠不會像其他的軟體它為的資料可能比較多而且比較多元可能會有這樣的問題那所以主委你的說法是說這一套軟體還是有它的優勢所以未來我們還是會扶持這一套軟體讓它繼續壯大嘍是就我了解國科會目前的做法是這樣好那除了除了扶持它之外可是我們要怎麼鼓勵大家使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14669.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14698.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
他現在等到他們應該是有一個發展進程接收之後他應該就會開始開放出來是不是我請國科會這邊來說明一下跟委員報告那基本上台德這個計畫原來是到4月底可是我們會把它延續到12月底就是讓台德他在這個資料的收集還有模型的訓練能夠各號台灣V然後明年開始我們會加強他的推廣跟應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14698.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14714.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
那目前來講我們這個調整後的那個model我們是會把新的版本都會公佈然後讓這個業界還有讓那個什麼我們講的公務機關都能夠下載然後它經過微調之後就可以來使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14715.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14742.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
就是說過去類似這樣的我想在幾年前就是說像那個LINE剛在興起的時候台灣也有一度說要去開發我們自己的通訊軟體那但是後來也是卡在市場因素整個市場大家就是都用LINE所以台灣的通訊軟體後來在當時也差不多無聲而起了所以我現在也開心你現在去開發這一套Tide但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14745.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14762.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
他的市場的優勢究竟在哪邊以及他這個市場優勢足以讓他未來是可以支撐在這個競爭的環境中這件事情我是問號的所以你若沒有講出一套你未來要怎麼去推廣去行銷我感覺起來我們這套軟體要怎麼跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14765.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14791.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
講白了要怎麼跟CHAT的GDP他們現在還不斷的在成長中我們要怎麼跟人家競爭啊這個有兩個部分喔它跟LINE比較不像喔這裡面其實對服務台灣人民我們整個是大人其實它需要用台語來服務或是客語來服務那所以呢它對於本土性的服務對於做智慧政府或者是廠商要做智慧醫療智慧零售都會有很好所以主委你的意思說我們的優勢就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14793.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14808.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
他對於台語對於方言的適應度是更高的那將來辨別度也會比較好對東南亞市場的華人市場我們都還是可以進入那另外因為他的邏輯是一樣的他轉回到英文跟中文的時候在華人市場跟海外市場還是有機會做進展 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14810.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14829.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
所以它跟LINE會比較不太一樣當然我LINE只是一個舉例啦但是未必是類似的狀況但是我只要跟強調就是說我們既然要發展這一套軟體我們要怎麼把它的優勢發揮到我相信啊CHAT的GDP總有一天它的台語的功能也許會變強喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14831.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14841.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
哪一天他覺得這一塊有市場的時候,他就會在哪一塊強化?等他那一塊強化的時候,我們的優勢就會對得起所以我們既然要在這個軟體上要做競逐的話,我們一定要有一個我們要如何提供的一個重點,好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14850.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14865.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
我認為這可以再研究看看我是給你們鼓勵啦但是我也知道說台灣以我們的市場我們要開發出足以支撐然後讓它能夠賺錢的軟體那是很困難的我也是在你們鼓勵啦好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來我們請羅志祥委員請做詢答 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14885.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14888.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
主席有請郭部長我們再請郭部長部長好委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14897.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14921.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
最近台灣因為輝達的執行長黃仁勛AMD的執行長蘇之鋒先後訪問然後黃仁勛說要輝達在5年內在台灣要興建大型的設計公司至少要僱用1000名工程師那當然各地方政府爭相邀請那我這邊倒不是在跟你討論他們落腳何處而是事實上落腳台灣之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14922.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14928.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
我們能否給輝達或超為足夠的一個我們講發展的環境有沒有信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14929.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14953.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
在這部分的話因為輝達要來他想說他要招聘一千位工程師我們是比較擔心我們這樣會不會把我們台灣的人才給大量用走那起這個連鎖效應所以我有後來剛開始是講說10個person他們要帶10person的engineer進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14954.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14978.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
但是我到經濟部服務以後,我跟輝達,我有直接要求他要提升到50%所以基本上你也會擔心產生人才排擠,工程師的部分所以你要求是要50%的那個比例那我想請教除了說人才的concern之外的話,你對他們的用電的部分你有信心嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14979.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15008.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
用電的部分因為他不會一開始就用這很高的電那我們當然是根據他的這個計畫我們來盤點我們自己的這個準備那跟委員報告到目前為止到2030年的這樣的一個規劃我們是有信心的好 非常謝謝部長的信心齁其實我談的也不是回答的個案啦因為將來部長也是希望能夠來我們AI是未來一個發展重心嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15008.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15033.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
但大家全世界都知道說AI其實是個耗電的產業對不對可是我們剛好又看到就是說外媒對台灣有一個嚴重的示警認為我們電力短缺而且動輒缺水那美國的財經媒體CNBC說過去七年時間台灣發生了三次規模較大的停電那過去一年則有一系列小規模的停電 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15034.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15055.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
北台灣近年4月更在3天內發生停電多起的事件﹐那台灣有97%的能源依賴進口﹐那主要是煤炭跟天然氣﹐很容易使得台灣受到能源供應中斷的影響我覺得﹐請問一下你覺得這個﹐國外的財經媒體對這樣的一個產業的擔心﹐是不是其來有據呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15057.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15065.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
國外的媒體擔心如果台灣缺電的話會造成世界經濟上的問題我在這邊要跟委員報告根據我們現在的盤點我們是不會缺電 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15073.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15092.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
可是我們上次有跟部長在詢答過你也坦承嘛停電的狀況實質上也讓民眾非常不安嘛對不對因為現在政府其實一直否認缺電啦但是我也慢慢懂大家的邏輯因為缺不缺齁是你的判斷問題但對人民來講我家有停電跟沒停電就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15093.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15119.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
一分為二的問題嘛 對不對可是現在也確實從數據來看的話我們停電的狀況變得當然你也可能是電網的問題所以我們要強韌電網嘛 對不對但有一部分是不是因為這供電上的一個不足造成說今天配電上的一些其他問題當然也有人有這些疑慮啦可是不管怎麼樣講現在連國際媒體看到都是停電增加跟停電平衡的這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15120.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15131.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
你原因不歸為缺電你要歸為電網也好但停電就是最鐵針針的狀況啊那我想請問部長你怎麼去消滅外資或是其他的廠商對這樣的疑慮呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15133.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15150.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
我們談點電的容量是夠的但是委員你所指導的這一部分我們電網的韌性我們會快速的來修改就是說有比較weak的地方我最後做一個簡單的結論其實電網的韌性我們已經談了很多年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15153.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15174.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
但如果交出的成績單是這樣子的話你也不要怪國際媒體懷疑我們其實是不是缺電造成的所以這個我想部長因為您才剛上來希望不只在所謂供電無虞不缺電的問題上電網韌性上總而言之我們要追求一個結果就是至少停電不能比以前嚴重嘛是不是是的好我們一起努力好不好謝謝部長好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15181.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15201.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
接下來我們請盧君委員請做詢問好 謝謝主席 大家都辛苦了有請經濟部部長、國發會主委、國科會林法政副主委備詢好 我們請以上三位 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15208.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15228.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
謝謝也都辛苦了昨天本席在總質詢的時候有提到AI人型機器人的議題院長說政府都有在做那今天剛好經濟部、國發會、國科會都在這裡想請教您三個部會誰在主導國家的AI人型機器人Humanoid的政策三個部會是不是都有相關的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15232.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15250.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
我看到有人在這個很誠實的搖頭我覺得這是很好的不然的話早上說A下午變成B也不好有關計劃的話我想還是給各位一點時間去搜羅一下也許有可能比較小規模怎麼樣能不能在今天下班前將資料提供給本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15251.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15272.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
就有的話就提供沒有的話我們就知道沒有也沒有關係那機器人裡頭也很多軟體包括像是對話因為你要跟機器人講話眼睛機器人的眼睛要能夠看得懂這個世界同時也可能有新的IC需要被設計所以今天有媒體報導指出產業創新條例第十之二條的租稅抵減 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15273.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15289.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
吃硬不吃軟 優惠硬體生產廠 獨露IC設計業過去本席在質詢AI和晶片產業創新的議題的時候一直都在講四個字軟硬兼施隨著全球IC設計的產業競爭激烈 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15291.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15313.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
同時生成式AI也可能導入到IC設計的行業裡頭我們有沒有可能由政府單位在租稅優惠上擴大範圍來幫助台廠的IC設計業甚至更多的AI或機器人或人型機器人的軟體業拉高研發的動能?國務部長、劉主委你們覺得廠商的建議合理嗎?國際趨勢是否將軟體研發的經費也納入稅務優惠的範圍? |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15318.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15337.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
報告委員,這個早上的這個吃軟不吃硬這個它沒有達到我們的標準它沒有達到標準不是我們沒有,我們的產創條例是有的不過您的這個指導我在想說我們可以在為了將來的這整個IC業的這個設計業的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15341.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15361.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
我們可以再來討論一下那個條件放寬一下其實就怕搞錯所以我後面直接就附了第12條真的是有一點吃硬不吃軟但沒有關係我們都一起來評估目前這個競爭很激烈希望請經濟部和國發會共同研議一個月內能不能提供本席的書面報告關於這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15363.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15381.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
報告委員可以好謝謝謝謝國發會在今天的報告當中也提到定標AI國際頂尖人才開展全球劣才計劃昨天這個院長我早上質詢完說美國白宮這個每一個部會都要有AI人才下午院長就說部部有AI |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15382.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15406.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
那我想我們的就業金卡還有人才AI人才不足我們希望能夠往外部往內就是從外部往內來往羅那我們一直在外流我們希望可以有入超所以半導體AI的產業演進快速人才的需求迫在眉睫現在就業金卡顯然不足能不能請教國發會留主委除了就業金卡以外我們能否研議新增條件較為彈性的AI就業銀卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15410.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15413.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
擴大對全球攬AI人才的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15415.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15442.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
跟委員報告我們目前是因為現在是人才戰爭那它不僅僅是AI數位人才也很缺所以呢我們現在是要準備正在我們現在找了6個國家做比較我們準備全面把它放寬太好了我們今天也太感動了不是只有AI因為各個地方的人才我們都需要吸引進來軟硬兼施好不好然後呢這個AI的產業因為既然都已經AI內閣我覺得稍微重視一下也不為過啦最後針對能源議題郭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15444.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15470.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
本席知道您這段時間內也許內心有一定的掙扎、煎熬或評估我昨天本來要問你但時間有點衝觸今天有沒有更新說法因為過去這個我想這都不是大家的本意因為科學、事實、理性就擺在眼前那我想在此能不能爭取主席給我一點時間那我給郭部長一點時間能不能表達一下您現在對於核電廠演藝的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15471.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15485.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
核電廠我的看法都沒有改變以現在的法規定我沒有辦法討論除去這個法以外就核電的部分我想它還是沒有辦法滿足綠電的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15489.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15516.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
那如果說就其他的這個討論我想這個我們要討論這個核酸的核酸或者核二這些問題都不是在我們可以討論的範圍之內所以這一點我們會關注這個新的核能新的核電的這個發展因為美國我想美國日本這些先進國家他們也都在關注這些議題我們當然也是關注這個議題但是以目前來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15517.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15534.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
我們現在的畢竟還是核廢料是非常大的處理的問題那這個安全上面我們確實目前是沒有辦法而且運作了40年它必須要下來下來以後再重新再檢討檢討它確實沒有問題了我們才來考慮現在這個都不是在議題裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15538.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15553.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
非常抱歉謝謝部長您的回應我覺得還是相對客觀那我們也會持續的來交流核電的研議其實除了法規的修正我們希望行政院可以提出之外研議其實也是需要時間需要機組的整修這些其實是可以評估的 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15556.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15579.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
而不是說我們有委員在這邊質詢結果就說目前為止有電那這樣以後我們只要燈還亮著我們是不是就不用質詢核電的議題其實不是這樣所以能源政策非常務實客觀那您昨天院長也有提到這個基本法有這個限制什麼時候突然我們的院長又對我們的這個法令對我們大院這個出台的法案又這麼的尊重我今天才從剛剛才從程序委員會用衝的衝過來我們就在處理複議案我們很尊重他的複議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15584.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15606.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
但是我們立出來的法令結果變成這樣所以我想能源政策很科學客觀希望半導體和AI產業的未來提高了能源需求能不能請經濟部具體提出近5年因為半導體行業可能還會倍數增長我們講的是年增3%很可能都還是低估能不能提出近5年具備可行性的電力規劃讓產業安心好的 可以謝謝 謝謝部長好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15616.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15635.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
謝謝接下來我們請羅庭惠委員、羅庭惠委員不在現場我們請林楚英委員、林楚英、林楚英委員不在現場請陳冠廷委員、陳冠廷、陳冠廷委員請洪孟楷委員、洪孟楷、洪孟楷委員請莊瑞雄委員、莊瑞雄、莊瑞雄委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15642.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15663.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
我們現在登記發言的委員除了不在場之外其餘都已經發言完畢那詢談結束我們有莊瑞雄委員以及陳冠廷委員所提書面質詢請列入記錄刊登公報那書面質詢以及位置答覆的部分請於相關單位於一週以內以書面答覆並複製本委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15665.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15681.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
今天要特別感謝我們所有列席的官員因為這是一個產業的革命所以我們透過這樣的一個交流一個互相的了解我們希望這只是開端也給行政部門一點時間好好去盤點包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15683.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15711.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
未來我們的方向走向但是有一點也就是希望國發會這邊因為其他的國家我們在跟進的時候人家量體都500到1000了如果我們未來的設定只有200那我們不知道以後怎麼應對所以我們也希望將實際國際的情況呢在國發會所handle的這個相關部會給行政院報告我們不要未來到最後人家都已經1000了我們設定了3年4年之後才200 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15711.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15733.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
那我想跟我們的國際要接軌是有困難的所以這一點也特別請國防會以及經濟部等相關單位也據實的給行政院來說明來重新規劃我想唯一的我們的目標就是大家團結一致讓台灣能夠在世界能夠發光所以我們今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15737.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15741.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
我們本日的議程處理完畢明天星期四繼續開會現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15745.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15748.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
好 我們的議事主任也辛苦了辛苦 辛苦 辛苦 辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15774.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15777.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
全體委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |