| IVOD_ID |
15994 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15994 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-06 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-06T08:31:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-06T11:47:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:16:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d4f41088fe7fdcd9edbed544b35c5f3ca3be8d109af184be42c1218b1380c6e6c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-06T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:00 - 11:47:00 |
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1766.121 |
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1775.762 |
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報告委員會出席委員9人以足法定人數好我們現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1777.608 |
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1797.482 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議．事入．時間中華民國113年6月5日星期三上午9時3分至11時12分．點黃樓山林一會議室．出席委員羅梅林等10人．列席委員羅明才等15人．請教委員林玉君．列席人員國軍退出與官兵輔導委員會主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1799.163 |
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1812.751 |
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．發及所屬人員．主席．王召集委員．予．報告是．一宣讀上次會議．思路決定．確定．二．邀請國軍退出與官兵．輔導委員會主任委員．顏德發報告業務概況．並備質詢。．國軍退出與官兵．輔導委員會主任委員．顏德發報告．委員盧敏林等13人質詢．均由國軍退出與官兵．輔導委員會主任委員． |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1820.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1837.599 |
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袁德發．舊學就業處處長．玉南．退除己副處處長．羅馬可．臺北榮民總醫院院長．陳威民．屏東榮民總醫院院長．吳東寧．及財團法人．榮民榮眷基金會．秘書長．李世國等即席答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1838.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1865.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
決定一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二委員所提口頭及書面質詢未及答覆或要求提供資訊請國軍退出與官兵輔導委員會與二周年以書面答覆本會全體委員並附資本會委員另指定期限者從期鎖定三委員陳永康林業軍及李博義等三人所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報宣錄完畢在場委員對於上一次的會議事錄有遺漏錯誤或需要更正的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1867.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1888.231 |
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沒有的話,我們議事錄確定。請議事人員宣讀報告事項。報告事項,邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況．並備質詢。宣讀完畢。我們現在先介紹已經到場的委員。謝謝陳永康委員,他是永遠準時。謝謝。接下來是我們沈伯陽委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1892.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1901.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
今天是顧立雄先生擔任國防部長首次的業務報告非常歡迎今天與會列席的官員有顧立雄部長副參謀總長執行官鄭榮峰上將常務次長楊基榮中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1913.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1930.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
另外我補充說明這個因為今天禮拜四禮拜四有軍談的關係那所以我們原往例在禮拜四的中午12點以後那顧立雄部長要去參加總統府的軍談所以我們原例準價 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1931.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1931.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
總督察長李榮華 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1962.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1990.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
政務辦公室主任 廖建新政戰局局長 陳玉玲軍備局局長 林文祥主計局局長 謝其賢軍醫局局長 蔡建松政規司司長 李士強資規司司長 鄧克雄法律司司長 沈世偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1992.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2015.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
整評司司長苗慧芬國防採購事主任趙雅萍人事參謀次長是次長劉佩智勤次是次長顏有賢作戰及計劃參謀次長是次長陳文新後勤參謀次長是次長陳道輝通信電子資訊參謀次長是次長盧建宗 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2023.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2033.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
訓司室次長張俊志陸軍參謀長陳建毅海軍參謀長邱俊榮空軍參謀長曹敬平後備指揮部參謀長薛淵泉縣指部參謀長呂正芳陸軍後勤指揮部參謀長劉清薰支通電軍指揮部參謀長陳俊良 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2055.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2071.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
軍情局第一處處長鄧敦仁電展室執行長許益新中科院院長張忠誠本日會議邀請新任國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況．並備質詢我們請顧部長上台報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2086.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2102.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
各位委員先進,面對區域安全情勢變化、中共軍力擴張及共軍持續對我軍事威懾等嚴峻挑戰,國軍持續推動各項建軍備戰工作,今天應邀至大院委員會實施業務報告,將針對當前11項重要國防事任計劃進行報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2108.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2130.281 |
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1.掌握敵情威脅,共軍持續以台海周邊進行灰色地帶侵擾,並共軍以海空兵力聯合警巡漁業中線抵近24里線給予國防軍事壓力。2.藉由海空兵力沿海長航、火箭機飛彈試射及兩棲部隊登陸演習等軍事行動, |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2132.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2148.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
驗證了對台作戰能力,面對共軍各類擒擾太陽,國軍持續整合情資,爭取早期預警,結合三軍戰備徵詢任務,世界部署海空徵收系統及載航基建, |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2150.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2157.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
積極應處共軍各種軍事違則另一共軍可能軍事行動設計各類想定狀況納入各部隊戰備訓練項目保持常態演練以提升部隊應變能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2164.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2180.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
2.漢光演習漢光演習4月下旬已完成電腦輔助指揮所演習至重點以平站轉換機制去中心化指管及首次驗證接戰規定等並將首獲結論納入7月實兵驗證科目規劃實兵演練預化於7月22至26日依整體防空聯合階級作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2188.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2189.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
及聯合國土防衛作戰進程實施實兵實彈操演。實戰化訓練國軍應年度計劃執行各 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2199.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2218.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
執行各項戰訓工作,採實兵實地實作方式,遂行作戰演練,提升防衛作戰能力。各部隊以駐基地與連戰演訓貫穿年度訓練,以責任作戰地境或海空域實施戰術巡軍、野戰輸引、戰場經營、海空聯合執管與接戰程序演練等實戰化訓練項目。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2224.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2251.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
等實戰化訓練科目：使官兵首人戰場環境驗證幹部職參作業及狀況處置能力．強化防衛作戰能力．同時於敵情威脅以敵可能行動及設計演訓想定．結合戰力保存及防衛作戰場景．備提升作戰計劃執行能力及後勤支援能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2252.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2263.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
一年期義務役113年1月1日起開始徵集94年次以後出生義男服一年期義務役期5月底接訓3500預言為強化訓練內容四個月軍事訓練役及一年期義務役113年期 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2270.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2297.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
陸武訓練均調整為8週,增加快反射擊、戰傷救護、近戰格鬥等項目。期末建設正和交易以野外3天2夜、晝夜連續實施行軍、宿營及戰鬥狀況演練,使義南達合格戰鬥兵標準。新式陸武訓練課程執行期間,期末建設合格率達9成以上。陸武完訓後分發守備部隊服役,持續強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2299.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2323.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
單兵戰技等訓練並以作戰任務及編制專長師訓結合年度訓練流入接受基地測考驗證訓練成效為落實藝男照顧及增進其權益依依藝男徒役期間處支領薪額及專業佳績外是單位駐地可在支領地域佳績應應增集人數逐年遞增113年規劃完成營運 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2330.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2357.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
臨雲崗營區等7處新安裝範新建兵設提供一覽優質住用環境提升作戰韌性﹐國軍持恆建構自主保修能量提升戰備存量多重指管備援及強化戰傷救護等作為以保持戰力完整支持防衛作戰需求為及時掌握全軍部隊後勤現況﹐持續強化用兵後勤系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2359.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2371.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
後勤資訊系統可有效提升後勤志願效率,為強化戰鬥持續力,以完成糧木、油料及彈藥等補給品戰備儲量調整,可滿足暫時所需,同時持續編列預算採購F16等試行機, |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2377.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2397.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所需零附件令整合作戰區內所有建置數據執行補給品前進囤儲等整備作業以降低戰損及縮短增補的時效並藉由漢光演習針對民務力增購用軍需工業加速產制實施驗證非暫時維持防衛作戰韌性為支援連戰指管 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2404.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2425.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
機制持恆運作,國軍持續提升職管通知韌性,建立多重職管備援手段。有關降低人員傷亡方面,參考美軍戰傷救護發展,在戰傷救護訓練方面,年度規劃實施1萬餘人次訓練,讓第一線作戰官兵具備自救護救能力。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2426.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2436.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
6.全民防衛動員,年度全民防衛動員及災害防救民安10號演習於4月至7月實施,以暫時情況下複合式災害搶救為主軸,並首度結合民間緊急應變隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2443.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2452.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
協助就在應用,協助5月底完成桃園市等6場次,軍民聯合防空的萬安47號演習域7月22至25日結合漢光兵隊演習實施,以強化整備作為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2458.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2473.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
令同步實施物力動員自強40號演習,執行軍需物資與軍事運輸動員等科目,藉以提升動員準備效能,強化軍民整合機制。加強後備戰力,為加強後備戰力113年教召訓練、調整射擊訓練及戰鬥教練等課程時數,令增加14天教召訓和7900餘演。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2486.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2500.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
．定堅持後備戰力基礎．年度軍事人力動員的童星34號演習．以漢邦兵推．漢邦實兵的演習想定．以在地動員．在地運用原則．各種 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2501.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2515.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
演練各種狀況,磨練後備部隊,立即動員,立即作戰效能,把建構不對稱佔領,針對中共快速奪取台灣,避免外力介入,不對稱建軍目標進行兵力整建, |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2517.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2539.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
在國防自主部份籌建、入設建構新型野戰防空系統等裝備,在對美軍購部份則籌購愛國者三型增程防空飛彈、新式戰機及空對面、對空、對海之遠程精準武器導入無人化及人工智慧,持續強化防衛作戰人性。 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2540.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2564.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
本部透過國防自主及對美軍購方式籌建所需武器裝備,113年度軍事投資預算獲付1,255億元,其中持續案編列1,077億元,持續推動基建國造等重大計劃,令新增案編列178億元,致重點於建構無人載具及強化分散制止管系統及防護能量。 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2565.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2579.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
美國會制定《強化台灣任性法》授權美行政部門應用外國軍事融資等方式協助我國提升現代化防衛作戰能力,通過迄今以2023獲得1.35億元無償FMF外,國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2586.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2601.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
2024年3月通過《綜合撥款法》提供臺灣不少於3億美元之FMF,4月國安補充撥款法額外依註,包含臺灣在內等印太區域國家20億美元FMF, |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2603.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2615.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
美國務院更在2025年度會計年度預算內首度指明編列1億美元FMF於我國,其能將原台FMF制度化。此外,112年7月28日以PDA |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2619.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2638.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
無償提供我3.45億美元軍事裝備,亦將我國IMET等級調升,使我國得以較優惠價格護美諮詢,軍事教育訓練。本部與我國實際防衛作戰需求與美方討論並逐步推動各項兵力整建,持續強化防衛作戰韌性,並維護區域和平穩定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2642.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2654.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
實施推動國防自主,本部積極紮根國防自主,整合國內產學研究科研能量,推展國防先進科技研究及武器系統研製,其能帶動國防產業供應鏈發展,擴大產業規模。國際國造規劃自106年至115年產至新式高焦機66架,113年預計焦機18架。國建國造持續推動新一代輕型巡防艦等五型艦籌建。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2672.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2687.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
高相能戰艦艇第一批以113年全速交軍服務、潛艦刻意節點執行裝備功能及博港測試作業、以新型救難艦及新一代新型群防艦經按計劃節點管制、海空戰力提升計劃規劃以125年完成9型精準彈藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2692.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2721.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
精準飛彈的量產作業,迄今產至進度軍政廠。本部持續督管中科醫醫計劃目標,籌建三軍所需武器裝備,以達成建軍目標。十一,照顧官兵生活。本部陸力推動軍人的服務照顧,積極完善生活設施,並要求幹部主動關懷協處疑難,使官兵得以專注於戰訓本務工作。為使官兵享有完整醫療照顧,提供官兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2723.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2749.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
就醫醫療優惠令官兵每年可接受一年一次年度體檢及早防患各項疾病確為官兵健康近期國軍發生豎起自殺自傷事件令人遺憾及不捨照顧官兵健康包括心理健康國軍責無旁貸為降低再發生相同憾事的風險部隊應積極提供醫療諮商及輔導資源建立心理 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2750.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2779.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
之心理健康之正確觀念鼓勵官兵在生活上遇到任何問題時能夠向同袍、長官或專業醫療人士救助避免心理健康遭污名化令持續協助官兵財務規劃及緊急紓困需求以強化官兵財務管理及防患詐騙職能本部持續推動銀色整建專案建造符合部隊助訓用功能完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2781.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2807.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
且溫馨舒適之現代化影射其113年累計完工87案另為滿足官兵幼兒托育需求113年完成公共化教保設施立案30處76班有效落實軍人安家軍艦安心之政策本部隊軍人權益保障及照顧官兵及官兵生活照顧則無旁貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2809.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2823.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
其藉創造優質溫馨的服役環境,促進部隊團結向行,使官兵安心服役,入力戰備訓練工作。國軍更需配合政府執行各類災害防救任務, |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2824.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2825.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
好,謝謝顧部長,請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2848.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2870.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那我們補充介紹黃仁委員跟洪森漢委員那兩位還沒有到場我剛剛已經有宣告三件事情我再補充宣告一次第一個因為禮拜四都有軍團所以我們國防委員會原力軍團都一定會準價所以顧部長在12點的時候會先行離席去參加三軍統帥所召開的軍團那 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2874.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2874.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
本會委員6加2分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2895.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2914.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
非本會委員4分鐘10點半發言登記截止如果有臨時提案請於10點半前提出那11點左右我會看詢答的狀況來進行處理首先進行詢答的是沈博洋委員你是史上第一個質詢顧立雄部長的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2922.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2923.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
謝謝主席 那有請顧部長 謝謝來 部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2933.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2954.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
政務委員好部長好沒有想到在這個地方又再遇到了我今天因為時間因素我就直接切入主題最主要就是因為現在是新的部長新的氣象之前我們都有整理一些跟改革計畫有關的一個表格我們通常把改革分成四大類第一大類是跟管理有關的也是最多的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2955.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2980.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
譬如說我們常常講說要簡化業務但是我們在跟國軍這個訪談的時候就發現有時候簡化業務又變成一個新的業務所以就變得更忙那所以這一類管理類的我待會可能會問一些問題那第二個是跟戰訓類的像這個提政部啊等等之類的那軍備呢蠻多都是在辦公室呢其實都有做一些協調所以今天我不提那最後法規類的因為它涉及到比較長期的所以這個我可能會放在後面 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2980.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3007.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
所以今天我最主要想問兩大類一個就是跟戰訓有關的一個是跟管理有關的那戰訓有關這一邊是因為剛好看到的就是馬上這是520之後的這個新聞就是說我們當然都希望部隊能夠專注在這個戰訓本務那我們有看到今年這個校慶說取消聯兵旅政部以回歸這個戰訓本務看起來是一個蠻好的開始那想問部長就是針對這一個部分提政部這件事情目前來講規劃是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3010.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3037.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
跟委員報告首先第一個就是聯兵旅的部分本來有六個聯兵旅各派一個聯來參與這一個黃埔百年的校慶那這個部分我將它取消也就是說讓聯兵旅回到他的戰訓本部不用那因為這個百年的校慶還是以官兵學生為主體所以聯兵旅的部分就就不用再參與這個黃埔的百年校慶那另外呢這個有關這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3039.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3059.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
黃埔的校慶的學生連的部分因為之前就已經說要已經他們已經訓練提政部有好幾個月了那我想我尊重原來邱部長的這個決策我就不改變他但我現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3061.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3087.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
要求他們就是說以後呢我們就以齊步的方式為主也就是說之後的校慶呢就以齊步的方式來進行就不再提政部這樣子謝謝部長那關於這個提政部的部分另外還有就是我常提到這個刺槍那這一個呢就是單純是因為我們現在呢前面有這一個所謂的這個防火帽那當然呢如果真的在接戰的時候呢這種刺槍所以有時候真的是也是蠻慢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3088.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3117.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
現在我有看到在訪談國軍的過程當中有提到有另外一種衝擊型的防火帽就它防火帽本身就已經有能夠刺傷敵人的效果了這個其實對於我們自己的兵工廠可能也會有生產的可能所以這一個部分只是一個建議這個部分並非需要回答但可能之後看相關的部會是不是能夠說明看看有沒有這方面的一個方向因為對我們來講作戰需求才是最重要的事情這跟替正部級有點類似的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3118.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3138.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我們現在有一個近戰格鬥的一個項目的一個基本訓練所以凡是不符合近戰格鬥的這個概念範圍之內的我們都會將它取消所以傳統那個突刺突刺的那一種比較不具有近戰格鬥的部分我們會加以取消好 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3138.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3166.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那另外呢就是回歸到今天比較重要的就是跟管理有關的問題那這個部長應該也知道在這一段時間就是呢這一個國軍自傷的這些案件是頻傳那我們當然都知道呢國軍畢竟在作戰這個壓力什麼等等之類的是需要被解消的那他其實這個壓力的來源非常多多元我們不可能今天在這邊完全的一一盤點那這邊我提出兩個比較重要的第一個就是因為畢竟我們除了這方面的問題之外呢我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3167.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3171.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
關於這個方面是不是部長有相關的一些規劃對於減輕這個不管是主觀或關閉壓力的一些政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3192.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3220.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我想因為經過這幾年的這個相關的這個對於我們現在臺海這個周邊的這些敵情的應處大家都已經有相關的處置的經驗跟能力的提升所以我想我就決定就是說回到我們2023就是112年經常戰備時期的突發狀況處置規定來做就可以了也就是說回歸到說原來他就有一個相關的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3221.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3222.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
現在可以休假了 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3238.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3265.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那休假對南北洋也是好事但我們休假有這種互助回報的機制這個在營休假還要參加點名各級對夏普斯加訪就是說左邊這個很多匿名的一些意見我們就把它放在這邊也就是說這個休假到現在還要做這種互助回報他到底有沒有辦法真的有效去提高戰力還是說反而造成他們在休假的一個困擾沒有辦法真的達到休假這件事情所以不知道部長在這邊有沒有什麼一個往下改善的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3265.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3281.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
是,我們已經確定有關於每天都要回報的那個部分要把它廢除掉也就是說有事再回報那另外我們會在離任的時候呢會跟他做一個宣教也就是說在休假期間要注意的事項就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3282.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3309.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
所以我總的來講是這樣子我們現在應該要回到戰訓本務所以相關的一些作為我們用檢法的方式來加以處理剛剛委員所問的問題都會是涉及到我們檢法比如說我們近戰格鬥是屬於實戰化訓練的一部分那如果形式主義的部分過多那這個不符合戰訓的本務我們把它取消那每天都要回報這件事情也過於形式主義我們會把它取消掉那有關說自由行或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3310.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3325.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
不能參加自由行這個部分我想這也過於形式主義所以我們也會把這個部分取消掉也就是說盡量來主義來檢討哪些部分那我們用檢法的方式來取消那專注於這個人員裝備訓練這個部分的戰訓戰備整備的任務的本質這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3330.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3357.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
謝謝部長,那我們之後應該都會往這個大方向來追蹤,就是說我們大方向就是要回歸戰訓本務,然後我們也希望用檢法的方式,所以就是希望不要說是,今天檢法的時候,結果到最後又變成每一個人為了這個檢法,然後竟然還要申出一份報告,然後往上去說,我們有做到檢法這件事情,那這個會造成大家的困擾。我們就主一,不再增加業務說要去檢討這件事情,我們就是看到什麼問題,然後我們就把它檢掉,這樣直接檢掉就可以了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3358.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3375.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
感謝部長那最後因為作為這個文人部長最後還是就是很希望就是說因為國防部長跟參謀總長我們有軍備我們有這個軍令還有軍證那當然還是希望就是部長的專注在這個軍證跟軍備上面然後支持國軍然後那這個軍令的部分跟這一個參謀總長依照現在國防二法有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3378.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3378.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
國防部長關注政策戰略及建軍整體評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3405.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3423.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
戰略層級以下的作戰跟戰術層級的部分我會交給參謀總長來負責因為本來依照國防部組織法的規定就是指揮三軍作戰本來就是參謀總長應該要做的事情但是在戰略層級上面我還是會專注於跟總長一起來討論我們執行建構我們的防衛構想的戰略 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3434.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3434.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
接下來進行詢答的委員是洪森翰委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3472.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3495.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
謝謝主席,請顧部長來,部長請部長,今天是你第一次到我們國防外交委員會來備詢你知不知道我現在照片裡面的兩位是誰右邊這一位是不是ISPA |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3499.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3523.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
左邊這一位呢是在甘迺迪時期也是很有名的文人的國防部長麥拉瑪拉他以前是世界銀行的行長那也幫助美國度過古巴的飛彈危機右邊其實是倫斯斐那他曾經擔任過福特跟小布希時期的國防部長那他很經典的是用企業管理的方法來幫助國軍改革效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3525.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3542.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
現在大家都知道其實國防的改革是重中之重國防是非常非常關鍵的台灣接下來能夠繼續生存下去關鍵的工作所以我覺得我們要讓社會大眾包括軍民都要有信心的地方是我們要讓大家知道為什麼在這個階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3545.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3571.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
賴清德總統或我們新的政府要用一位文人部長我覺得這部分我們應該讓社會更清楚知道這件事情這段時間我們也看到有些媒體對於你擔任國防部長有些挑戰所以我們現在跟大家講得很清楚其實在其他的國家很多的民主國家大家看到使用用文人部長來用文人來擔任國防部長這是一個常態性的事情其實甚至相比這個如果用球隊來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3573.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3599.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
假設總統就像是球隊老闆來決定這個球隊的方向其實國防部長就像是我們的管理的經理他是要做資源的管理配置的工作那參謀總長其實就像是總教練要領導比賽要來打仗這其實就是在這裡面一個非常非常重要的權責上面的分工那部長剛才在回答省委員的質詢裡面其實有講到你一直講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3600.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3603.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
部長,接下來我想問幾件事情。第一個事情是 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3624.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3640.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
在今年3月的時候其實我那時候就有質詢前出國政部長關於我們看到我們大概有18萬的國軍的人員軍職人員不管你是軍人還是隸屬在國防部下的還是是在國防醫學院下的 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3640.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3659.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
不管是醫護人員都要受到所謂出國的管制你只要出國對不起你就必須一定要跟團這幾乎是幾十年來的規定那當時我們說這樣子為什麼要這樣做的目的是因為保安保安或者是防止洩密可是大家發現不對啊這個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3663.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3678.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3678.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3680.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
部長,很高興你這幾天給出了具體的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3699.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3729.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
對,我們已經要廢止這個強制要跟團的這樣的規定也就是說自由行是可以的那只是說要提醒這些官兵在出遊的時候要注意這個旅遊的警示然後疫情的警示那另外我們可能還是要提醒他們要避免被滲透進行一些反滲透的宣教的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3729.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3739.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我昨天已經拿到這個國防部他新頒布的溝文6月5號也就是過去的國軍人員出國業務作業規定即日起停止適用那在這裡面看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3741.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3770.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
加了一個自助旅遊我們看到這是已經從昨天6月5號開始發布的規定其實從昨天發布的這個規定以後我們今天從早上開始其實收到非常非常多國軍弟兄透過各種留言的方式表達感謝包括感謝國防部感謝新的部長也感謝過去邱部長也開始做這些事情的檢討因為真的有太多不只是軍人包括軍眷有些跟我們反映他可能嫁給了一個軍人 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3771.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3775.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
可是因為這樣子的規定可能已經十多年沒有跟先生出過國了 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3777.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3806.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
沒有跟先生出過國因為想自由行沒有跟先生出過國可是我們要強調一件事情過去國防部這個做法的理由是說我們要保安跟防止洩密反滲透但我們現在是說這是無效的所以我們還是要要求重點這不是只是鬆綁而已這個是要用有效的取代無效的所以剛剛部長你說接下來我們對於軍人出國可能會帶來的這些洩密或者是被滲透的風險我們具體的做法可能會有哪些 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3808.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3823.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我們剛剛提到我們還是會做一些這個房子被滲透的一些宣教的規定要做好保密房點的這樣子的一個配套措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3824.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3848.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那順便跟委員報告一下也就是說我們另外這些揭密的人員我們現在在做安全查核上面也會仿效於美軍的做法就是說有揭密的有揭密看他揭密的程度就做出分級的做出他揭密的等級是然後我們要做好這個安全人員的查核OK |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3848.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3867.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我自己當時在質詢的時候我們有建議國防部其實也許可以參考比如說像中科院或者是國安局他們的做法也就是說我要再強調一次這不是只是鬆綁因為國安對我們來說當然至關重要但是要用有效的管理方法來取代無效的管理方法所以部長我們也很期待接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3868.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3868.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3891.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3919.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
密等的這個程度我們做了分級然後不同的級別我們做出不同的管理的措施這其實是一個相對比較科學化的管理的方法部長對因為我們最近才完成初步的一個擴大的安全查核那接下來我想我們會再進一步做第二階段的這個安全查核那基本上我的看法就是依照美軍的做法就按照你不是你階級而是你接觸機密的這個等級來做這個必要的安全查核跟人員的管制這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3920.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3940.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我們很希望這是一個重要的新的一步我覺得這也讓大家知道其實一個文人部長在國防部可以扮演的角色尤其是帶來一些新的管理的思維不管是剛剛部長說的檢法的思維或者是資源新的配置的思維其實可以讓我們國軍弟兄包括我們在軍中各種 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3941.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3942.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
接下來進行詢答委員陳永康委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3991.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3992.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
國防部長顧立雄報告業務概況 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4011.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4026.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
如果不能培養足夠的優秀人才國家進步的速度會跟不上國際的動態變化國軍戰力的提升因為人才不足受限於很多先進裝備來自美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4028.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4029.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
各位你看這張圖表就是我們三軍的軍事院校 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4055.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4076.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那右邊的是國立的七所國立大學當然臺大永遠是第一名但是臺大的人均的平均起來北京清華大學是它的六倍第七名的復旦大學是臺大的三倍那臺灣大學又是我們的十倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4078.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4102.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
各位看一下國軍的八所軍事院校總共才27億5000多萬元海洋大學人口人數只有9000多人是30億我這裡面特別要提出的國軍為了培養人才送到美國去高階的子參教育跟戰略教育站院一個人一年13萬美金 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4104.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4132.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那13萬美金在我們國內是開一班全年的教育經費所以教育水準的提升包括國防大學本身內理工學院政戰學院管理學院他都有碩博士班而國軍要接受教育部的教育評鑑可是卻不能參加教育部的高等教育深耕計劃這是一個不公平的 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4133.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4158.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
所以我的建言就是我們的教育經費不只是投資人才我們國防大學也有國際班我們還有辦遠鵬班還接受外國來台的中高階的軍官提供教育可是我們的預算就這麼一點點我個人的建議就是逐年調整五年內能夠要跟中山大學中央大學的這個水平來評 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4160.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4180.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
最主要的就是我們在學校教育裡面科技教育法治教育國際法武裝種族法戰服公約這都要納入教育在國外的只參教育是賦予學分戰略教育念完了就給予碩士學位這個可以振興我們的士氣也可以提升水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4181.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4209.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那麼下個題目現在無人機啊已經是全世界的大趨勢我們國內民間跟中科院也都在發展但是民間發展的無人機啊我要提出一個建言就是它的通訊頻道頻寬以及它的展示效益不等於國軍接受以後你部隊用的頻寬我想請教一下我們現在光通訊裝備啊三拐C營集單位有多少部 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4216.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4224.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
因為你把無人機交給國軍到部隊去以後不能由國軍再去跟NCC講我要多少頻道 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4225.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4248.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我的蹤跡是如何這個部分特別提醒注意現階段還沒有到無人機交艦但是因為無人機的國家隊這個產量非常大那這個飛機到了陸海空三軍以後是你軍種用你自己的通訊頻道來操作還是跟NCC申請這個能不能做一個簡單的回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4250.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4268.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
委員好,我是連六次長。針對於頻寬跟頻率的分配,我們針對不同形式的無人機,我們有跟NCC做一個頻段的分配。針對於近程、中程跟遠程,再去做一個裡面一個頻譜的調整,可以適應我們現在的一個整個未來的一個購案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4273.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4302.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我這邊提醒注意不管是中華電信也好只要是微波的它的中繼塔如果斷掉了你在local就沒有用了我就是講這種輕型無人機每一架無人機就是一個手機門牌號當手機不通的時候你這種微型無人機就不能用了所以在獲取裝備之前我們要預留這種tolerance怎麼講呢中繼的天線它是固定塔我們改成機動台這樣子就可以支持你 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4303.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4327.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
所以飛機的本身不是問題我這邊提請注意謝謝委員這個部分我們中繼的部分我們也把它都有列入到考量包含我們手機的這些中繼的一些SIM卡的一個擴充這都有考量進去另外特別用俄烏戰爭跟以哈戰爭俄烏戰爭無人機發揮的效果因為幅員廣大目標識別容易但是以哈衝突以色列這麼先進 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4328.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4344.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4345.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4345.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4366.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4390.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
一到七以下由大學做八以上中科院所以四五六七中科院跟大學同步做因為大學有的時候專業的教授帶著研究生做完了計畫走人那或者技術外流因此我個人強烈的建議四五六七是要同步做而不是說七以上中科院這個不是刀切豆腐兩段的這個僅供參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4392.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4400.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
另外一個就是現在就說成立的國防科技作戰處直接公告選商我強烈建議要會辦軍備局 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4401.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4402.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4425.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4444.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
李公學院李公學院幫他彙整李公學院拿給中科院中科院拿給君總君總說我還是看不懂所以這個程序非常複雜我想中科院院長體會的出來我們站在立場是絕對支持最後就是講一個利健演習這邊只是帶過我們提供一個方法論 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4447.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4463.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我們要一個共同圖像含括不只光台灣台灣周邊那麼這個是我們國防部苗機的演習範圍再套上我們的上兵伐謀發交發兵工程如何用手段最後邊右邊這張圖就是陸軍的UTM圖這個圖20年了還沒有變成數畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4469.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4494.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4495.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4511.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我想數位的地圖我們現在正在進行當中,中科院的部分也如你所講的不是一刀兩切,但是一定要有一定的技術備變的水平,我們來進行這樣子,日後再請委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4513.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4540.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
最後30秒這次我們這是一個模擬的就是想定就是中共這次他有些是講他的意圖但並沒有做我們如何用一個方法論用一套這個資料庫的方法把他的這個目的方法手段反推找出我們的弱點反映時間這個東西我們在民間兵推已經可以公開但是數據全部是來自開放的開源資料所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4541.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4541.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
接下來進行詢答的委員是羅梅林委員﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4573.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4576.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
謝謝主席 有請顧部長來 部長請羅委員好部長好部長 自從您520上任以來呢已經發生兩起這個國軍自傷的這個事件如果說我們往前推到今年初的話包含中科院在內 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4599.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4626.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
其實已經發生了18起的這個自傷事件那其實我們國防部在2016年以來一直強調就要讓軍中零自傷可是我們從2017年到今年的5月我們發現國軍總計有134人自殺身亡所以我們不禁要問到底我們的這個輔導機制哪裡出了問題是不是失靈了而且是不是要做通盤的這個檢討那是否我們要制定一個更有效的這個輔導的這個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4629.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4639.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
本席今天想就這個事前輔導跟事後調查這兩部分來請教我們部長從1990年開始其實國防部我們就有建立了三級防處的這個機制那這個機制主要是要促進這個關閉的心理健康跟這個防範自殺可是我們發現說從1999年建立以來其實我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4654.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4680.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
關兵自殺的這個案例其實並沒有減少那其實這個是不是說其實單單從這個三級防處這部分我們就已經要來做檢討了經過這麼多年到底機制出了什麼的問題那我們從初級發掘預防到二級專業輔導到三級醫療處域我們從國防部提供的資料裡面覺得好像好像都有做到實際上 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4682.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4698.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
如果真的都有做到心理輔導讓這個官兵都心理的這個因素可以被紓解的話我在想這麼多年以來不會每一年都有十幾二十起的這個官兵智商的事件發生那我們從這個初級發掘預防這個部分像我們這個初級發掘預防是由來負責呢就是由各級的基層領導幹部來負責也就是說我們的輔導長那輔導長的工作是什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4710.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4727.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
不是單單只有進行這個心理輔導而已他還有政戰業務他還有公文的處理他還要保密防諜等等是不是真的有辦法去發覺他身邊的同袍其實心裡產生了這個需要協助的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4728.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4752.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
所以我覺得說我們由政戰來堅韌這就是有問題那第二級的專業輔導也是一樣也是由各級的輔導志工及民間諮詢機構來提供篩選其實我知道說這部分是由新輔官來負責那我們的新輔官真的全部都是專業嗎不單單輔導長沒專業新輔官其實有一半以上都沒有心理輔導相關的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4754.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4754.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
請國防部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4781.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4804.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我先跟委員說明,因為詹再吉跟我報告都很多次了,那我個人的一個想法就是說第一集的部分他基本上經濟因素、感情因素、或者是家庭因素等等的那這些跟他同儕的這些人,跟他同儕 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4806.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4823.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
同儕的這些同袍他可能比較容易發覺他的相關的這些可能的一些異常的狀況那我覺得這些同儕也好或者是跟他比較接近的這些士官也好他們如果能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4824.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4853.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
通報能夠來然後來進行一個防處的話我們必須要給他獎勵那要提供一個誘因給他讓讓這一個同儕跟這個士官們能夠在第一層的做好那第二層的專業輔導的部分確實如委員所講的就是說我們具有證照的辛苦能力還不足那我個人覺得就是說我們要引進民間的能量已經民間能量也就是說要 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4855.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4882.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
因為有一些人他不願意跟我們的本身的新服員來做那個,因為可能他感受到可能部隊會給他異樣的眼光這樣,所以他如果要到民間去做諮商的話,我個人覺得在這個部分應該要提供一個資源讓他到民間去做這樣,這是我初步兩點想法,那詳細還有很多的狀況,如果可以的話是請鄭蘭菊做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4884.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4888.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
委員好,我是政戰局局長,跟委員報告,我們第一級初級防處的部分,並不是全部都是由這個政戰府老長來負責,我們的基層的這個排班的幹部,他們都是我們第一級就是預防發掘的重要的這個守門員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4906.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4910.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那我們有匯整了相關就是維安防處的徵後有12大類包含家庭婚姻精神等等方面提供給他們做參考那另外鏈結民間新府資源提供給我們的官兵多一層的選擇我們今年有鏈結116所我們會努力去做當然發生這樣遺憾的事情我們深切的在檢討那部長也有指導我們就是在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4936.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4937.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
連結民間心腹資源的這一塊我們是不是可以再擴大或者說我們引進民間的具有證照的心腹源我們來增加這個為官兵的健康來把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4952.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4952.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4982.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4983.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
國防大學及國防部訓練中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4998.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5021.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
不像台灣這樣子他這個國軍很大部分有時是用征戰來兼任他們的這些心腹人員大部分都是屬於軍醫體系而且大部分臨床心理人員都是在軍醫院來做服務你們所說的這個由這個民間來兼任那有沒有要走美國的這個方式就是說他們有所謂的軍務嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5023.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5025.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
跟這個宗教也有關係,軍務他們也都有,我在想你們應該都有去取經過可是為什麼就是沒有看到有這個雛形出現到現在還在說我們可能試著跟民間來做鏈接 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5038.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5040.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
國防大學跟國防部都已經去過美國取經了為什麼美國的這個制度我們沒有辦法來做研擬了這部分我想我們會馬上來推動這樣子的一個那另外有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5064.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5077.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
委員我補充報告一下我們三級的這個機制裡面我們所有軍醫院的身心科跟精神科的這個醫生專業醫生所以馬局長有時候連二級都走不到了對不對所以你們第一級就出問題了可能有時候要從第一級 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5084.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5088.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我真的覺得這個真的要通盤來做檢討,到底我們的這個輔導機真的出了問題,對不對?零智商其實就是一個很好笑的口號,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5099.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5100.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
接下來進行勳答委員徐曉欣委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5132.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5134.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
謝謝主席 我們有請顧部長來 部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5143.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5168.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
社區委員好是部長您是文官上任所以對您未來在軍中的大刀闊斧改革我們有很多的期待首先要先肯定您哦取消實施兩年多以來因為兩岸情勢緊張的政府主觀不得同時理應相關規定以及呢開放國軍的自由行因為有太多我們過去對於軍人的限制再加上他們的負擔工作量很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5169.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5189.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
願意當兵的人肯定會變少以及想離營的人一定會變多所以我們希望在很多的制度上面可以做改革讓願意從軍的人他可以變多那不想待在部隊裡面的人變少那我想這個是第一個部分那再來呢我們要討論到今天很多人都談到了這個國軍的自傷案 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5191.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5220.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那就我們所掌握到的資訊呢自傷未遂的案件我想要請問部長有沒有了解近期內到底還有幾期這是請責任局幫忙回答一下其實因為我覺得時間有限啦直接講就是還有四期的自傷未遂那所以等於說呢今年到五月的案件數量我想要請問一下部長你有沒有關心到跟去年的同期是幾倍差距有幾倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5221.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5235.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
您說智商的部分就今年5月跟去年同期的比較有幾倍我的理解我並不知道確確的幾倍但是我知道今年到現在為止算是高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5251.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5263.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
資商資格的人力不足,剛才委員有提到,您知道目前配置具備資格的等級是要到我們國軍的哪一個層級才有具備資商資格的相關人力嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5266.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5280.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
報告委員我們目前有我知道您知道啦我們是在問部長知不知道那沒關係齁因為我們時間很有限我直接告訴部長好不好是屢或群級以上的單位才配置對吧這個我跟您討論過很多次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5282.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5300.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
所以就算要向外求援也要呈報到旅籍的單位經同意後才到民間輔導單位去諮商而這沒有什麼道理我談過很多次了所以我們希望說可以扁平化在營籍或是下放權限到連籍第一線的主觀發現問題的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5302.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5302.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
我請問一下國務部長的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5330.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5350.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
您贊同我的意見,會往這個方向去辦理。好,謝謝。那再來我要詢問的是,據了解您是律師出身,所以也擔任過社團法人的臺灣人權促進會的會長。相信您對侵害人權、違反平權還有傷害他人隱私的事件應該是深惡痛絕的吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5351.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5372.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
應該同意我還沒有要問你轉型爭議我要問你的是軍隊的改革的部分我相信是如此的那我們看一下下一張通訊片實際上我們在收到的這個戰情報告他們在5月30號的時候要求軍團要發下國防部全軍生育率調查表 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5372.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5391.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
然後呢要你呢在5月31號10點的時候把單位軍職及聘僱人員的生日情形回傳人行科然後我想要請問一下那個部長您因我不太確定您知不知道這件事情但您看到這樣子的說法之後您第一個時間的感受是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5393.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5416.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
跟委員報告這個詳細經營我不是非常好我理解來我們看下一張請先都不要幫不好回答因為我們都問過你們很多次了這個統計表長這樣部長您看一下他分成育有子女人數跟生育子女人數配偶同為均值人數然後配偶同為均值人數跟生育子女人數他的報表統計表長這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5418.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5446.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
在5月30到5月31號填寫完畢那因為被報出來之後6月1號截止這樣子的一個過程可是我想問一下部長您作為律師你看到育有子女人數跟生育子女人數的差異在哪裡啊我這個部分我到現在都不懂我想要請教一下我看不懂我不知道要理解他們育有子女人數跟生育子女人數這兩者的差別在什麼地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5448.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5472.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
報告委員因為我完全沒有看過這個統計表來幫忙說明一下這可以說明了因為我真的很想知道答案委員我先說明一下這個秘密是我下的主要的目的是因為要統計我們全球所有的官士兵的子女因為我們現在都有育兒的教育就育兒托兒所那我們想統計的時候瞭解一下這個我們育兒 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5473.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5496.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我問的問題是育幼跟生育的分別在哪?我問過你們了,我現在問的問題很單純,因為我們時間真的很有限,我只想知道育幼跟生育的差別在哪裡?如果我是一個國軍的士兵,我被我的長官要求要提供這樣的報表,那我要怎麼區分說育幼跟生育,差異到底在哪? |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5496.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5496.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
請你先別說了部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5514.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5533.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我認為這樣的一個調查是相當傷害他人隱私權而且也引起了部隊裡面很多的人的不滿我知道你們可能是好意但是那你們是不是就救我們的這個國軍子女有沒有所謂的需要照顧或是照料來做申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5534.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5558.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
讓他們主動來申請嘛來我們看前一張你們是要求部隊在一天之內回報生育情形欸如果我是一個國軍我收到我是一個基層的軍人我收到你們對我有這樣子的要求第一個傻眼到不行第二個我會懷疑因為您剛講了您的意思可是我就我作為一個基層國軍我會懷疑說你現在是想要問我有沒有想要生小孩嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5559.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5576.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
這是一個非常個人隱私Personal的問題因為育有子女說跟生育子女人數我看不出上面您剛講的說是離婚不離婚的差別部長你可不可以簡單敘述一下我把整個案情跟您做一個釐清你怎麼看待這樣子的事情在我們的軍中不斷的發生呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5576.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5605.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
第一個我同意委員的看法就是我們應該要檢討第二個就是說任何這個統計都要核目的性也就是說他的目的是為了什麼才去設計這樣的表格那這個表格跟他的這個核目的性的看起來沒有辦法能夠取得足夠的連結我想我們這個部分是所以呢再來因為您是律師我要再請教你一個問題這樣子的一個統計調查有沒有違反性別平等相關還有就業服務法相關的一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5606.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5623.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我想這一個他本身的用意可能是良善的但是表格的設計可能是不是很適切的因為我們在救福法的第5條第2項第2款裡面其實寫得很清楚我們不得要求這個就業需要這個隱私的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5624.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5642.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
雖然我知道軍人跟在外面的工作不太一樣但是本席還是希望我們能夠多導入一些牢記法的精神到我們的部隊裡面不能的部分我們尊重國軍但像這種明顯可以的部分我們希望軍隊能夠改善部長能夠承諾嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5644.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5654.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
是,就這個部分我想我們下去會來檢討。會做檢討,那後續的檢討再請您再來跟我們做說明,好嗎?好,是。謝謝許曉清委員,部長請回。接下來進行詢答的委員是黃仁委員。謝謝主席,有請顧部長。來,部長請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5678.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5701.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
關於國軍的自衛反擊的要件請教一下部長可下達自衛反擊指令的要件到底是什麼那邱國正前任的部長指出國軍對第一級的界定已因應證實只有航空跟海運的實體 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5703.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5721.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
無論是建議或氣球侵入到我的領空無需對我開槍開炮我方就可以加以擊落但國際法院對於自衛權的主張明確界定其中最重要的概念就是必須要存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5722.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5723.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
國防部應該要先設定想好部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5743.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5757.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我想自衛權的設定在聯合國憲章相關規定應該是說我們遭受到武裝攻擊或者是威脅的時候應該就想有一個合比例的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5758.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5781.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
自我防衛的一個固有權利好你是法律出身應該清楚這知道這1928年非戰公約定義除了自衛或內戰外的戰爭都是違法的如果我們在未達自衛條件即發出發動自衛反擊恐怕會演變成發動戰爭的一方所以再問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5784.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5794.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
國基因的自衛反擊要見如何同時滿足對領土的絕對權利自衛和不思先機的時候那如何處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5795.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5817.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我們現在對於自衛權的行使就是說共軍若攻擊我在航機艦能設施還有共軍攻擊我本外離島還有未經許可任何的飛航實體進入我12海裡的領空跟領海所以這個就是非常公約我們要釐清清楚的那另外是對於太平島 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5819.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5833.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
請教一下部長,你去過太平島嗎?沒有太平島是島還是礁?就我的理解好像對這個部分各方有不同的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5835.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5837.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
很多現在國人現在對於太平島的概念基本的概念有很多人認為說島還是礁今天我們必須釐清一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5858.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5881.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
根據2016年的七月仲裁法院的仲裁結果不承認中共對南海九段線即我國所說的十一段線的主張更認為我國的太平島是礁而非是島部長你同意這個仲裁的說辭嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5883.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5900.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我想我們對於南海的政策一向是資源共享然後不挑釁不引起爭端委員我現在是講是交跟倒的一個仲裁的一個就我方來認定我們是認為是倒嘛好對 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5902.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5928.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
你這個說詞我贊同對於仲裁的結果當時外交部及總統府都表示對於不接受仲裁的裁判的判決本席相信任何中華民國的國人都認為太平島是島而非是礁再請教一下部長你是否認為太平島官兵應該在島上種植蔬菜或 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5929.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5934.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
養育畜牧牛羊豬等因為第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5936.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5961.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
在太平島的近離高雄港有1600公里,運輔確實存在有風險,且運輔伙食都為罐頭或冷凍的食品,島上官兵種植蔬菜或養殖畜牧牛羊豬可以相當程度的補充為新鮮的食材。為什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5962.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5978.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
因為本席在5月18號親自有到太平島太平島一年的椰子樹有兩萬棵而且是當地的指揮官做一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5979.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6001.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
所以在島上種植的椰子樹包含植物是非常的豐盛所以如果養殖這一些畜牧來萬一因應颱風天的話在運補的過程裡面有困難他們就可以自主自給那第二個是他們有養應該是60隻的生誕雞 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6006.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6030.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
然後養竹自起可以自供自給是你要曉得切蛋之前是切蛋但是他們有養這個生雞蛋的雞所以既然那個地方而且也足夠提供水源足夠提供水源因為那個地方有淡水現在還有海水淡化可以提供的 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6031.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6054.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
所以我相信如果在養魚畜牧提供他們因應颱風天的時候因為高雄到太平島有1萬6千多公里火石上我們應該要考慮提高他們的火石為什麼因為離島的心情不是跟本島一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6054.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6062.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我曾經到金門馬祖當兵,所以我們的伙食都非常好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6063.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6090.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
那如果他們在離島上在各方面的生活非常的單調但是我們應該鼓勵他們的伙食上能夠更充實更好部長你新上任的你是不是為這個離島的不管他們是海巡署還有國軍官兵將近600多個我想常務政策有趣我們都有去太平島去了解地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6092.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6103.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
你認為有沒有必要我的了解是我們從114年度開始每月調增為5947元叫113年度增加了1168元那至於剛剛委員提到的我了解是應該是當地有蔬菜 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6114.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6116.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
你能不能給專者來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6138.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6166.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我臨時次長跟您報告一下剛剛部長提到行政院在114年的時候的確有照顧到我們所有的官兵那在太平島部分委員非常清楚我們是在海巡署我們是海巡署那邊搭火的所以我們等於說把這個所有的您剛剛提到的這個冷凍食品我們做一下改善島上所有的冷凍的器材跟這個設施都已經做過更新所以它冷凍食品是沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6166.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6174.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那您剛剛提到的所有的畜牧業剛剛那邊有種一些青菜水果可以提供他們比較新鮮的一些食物這都有在做就剛剛有提到就是說有關於環保的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6182.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6204.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
因為在太平島那邊他的確有這方面的問題總之來講我們會跟海巡署一起來合作研究研究好不好讓官兵吃的更健康因為我是那邊的心得啦那跟大家分享非常謝謝委員關心好謝謝謝謝黃委員那邊的水很缺好謝謝部長請回那個用來種會死掉好謝謝我們請林楚英委員進行詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6215.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6216.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
謝謝主席 主席有請我們顧部長來 部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6225.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6254.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
林委員好部長好很開心在這個國防外交委員會又遇到您我在上一屆的時候其實是您在擔任警管會主委的時候那麼我相信文人部長上任就是希望我們國家對於部隊的管理能夠更與時俱進我想其實之前我的詢答都非常緊扣就是有關於我們在國防安全的部分那麼在軍人守密捍衛國家這個部分不要背叛自己的國家但是我們知道其實這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6255.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6285.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
中共又或者是說我們的敵對勢力對於國軍的這個所謂滲透無孔不入那麼是不是現在連國軍的這個金融借貸都變成一個滲透的新方法我們在財政委員會很多委員都會提到的是有關於金融陷阱包括這種所謂的金融借貸的陷阱那這個是不是也變成了是一個新的手法我請主委看一下我相信您對金融的了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6286.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6311.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
華南貸款資金規劃還說是上市貸款公司您覺得這個您一眼可以看出他的問題在哪嗎華南貸款也是在有沒有在做我特別框起來了華南貸放資金規劃是對對資金規劃然後還說有上市貸款公司如果這一看是不是以你來講這 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6313.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6321.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
上市貸款公司就是很奇怪的一個但是這個可能我們軍中的弟兄不見得一眼能看得出來他只看到的是職業軍人優好貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6324.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6347.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
然後有軍政立刻貸信用小白債務整合信用瑕疵房貸增加包括安心貸這些都是你在網路上現在在社群平台就可以找到的但是本席找到的是2023年就是去年8月的時候一個案例就是彭防部的上校就是因為他付不出這種貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6349.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6377.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
直接拿軍中的機密來做交換其實他兩年只換得了一百多萬一百零四萬這個金額不多但是他居然把軍中的極機密給洩漏出去所以這會不會是成為一個滲透的新方法而這樣的借款借貸方式他依舊存在主委上任之後有沒有覺得這是一個可以或者是應該要去面對待解決的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6379.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6390.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
事實上我在國安會任職期間有關於利用金錢借貸或者是利誘的方式來作為生態手法我們就有看到相關的案例了 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6391.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6413.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
好,所以其實本席在跟您來拜會的時候我就提過了我希望能夠提升軍中的金融素養其實我知道其實我們有所謂的財務觀也有些金融的講座的規劃但是它常常流於就是照本宣科那很多時候我急著用錢的時候坦白講啦,軍中弟兄的勤務已經夠忙了 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6416.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6430.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
來聽這個課大概就是一個上有政策下有對策所以第一當然我希望這樣的理財的金融素養能夠更活化一點另外一個就是我們有沒有可能提供一個更好的管道我要舉出這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6430.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6457.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
希望部長今天回去可以了解一下就是軍中其實有宣導那在這個所謂開源節流儲蓄裡面有個叫做國軍同袍儲蓄會我不知道部長知不知道如果不知道的話回去我現在希望請能夠給部長一個正確的資訊這個軍中軍人儲蓄會其實在2000年的時候就被監察院糾舉了9年之後也就是2018年監察院也認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6459.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6481.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
這個完全他的存在是沒有一個合法陣身的主委你應該都知道相關的這種所謂存放款業務都要符合我們銀行法但是在2000年的時候這個所謂存在在軍中的國軍同袍儲蓄會他完全不符合金融法規不符合銀行法結果怎麼樣呢國防部直接就我把這個裡面的法規我把它廢掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6484.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6508.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
他就變成是一個在軍中大家彼此私相授受嗎或者是說他就存在有一個財務官把弟兄的錢收了之後統合整理起來之後拿到台銀去存那我要來提醒部長的是這個2009年被糾正到現在其實國軍同袍除夕會他的法制化還沒有完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6509.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6525.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那我去特別調了一下資料他是放在內政部的軍人及其家屬優惠條例這個優惠條例在111年也就是2022年有修正過但他依舊沒有給他一個法制化的法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6526.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6553.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
所以我相信一個曾經擔任過金管會主委的部長這是一個你可以來思考要不要讓他法制化另外我提到這一點的原因就在於其實我查了一下國軍同袍除序會他在2024年第一季他的金額有215億新台幣言下之意他法制化之後他可能就可以做一些運用本席去查了幾個國內的基金國內有幾件上市上櫃的基金的規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6556.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6577.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
其實都不高他是215億他可以高於不少我們現有的投信公司的基金規模如果一旦法治化之後他可以做一些運用跟調度包括做於緊急的借款因為現在國軍的儲蓄會他同袍儲蓄會他只能存放款他不能放款他只能存款 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6578.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6589.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
他連放款的業務都沒有因為他沒有一個法規可以讓他合法正身來做這件事情本席今天提出這個事情只是希望主委能夠去思考他有215億的規模在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6593.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6622.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
如果法制化了剛剛我們前面講到的這些所謂的金融詐騙借貸詐騙的陷阱我們可以避免國軍內部我們都知道有國防管理學院應該裡面有不少金融相關的管理人才也有這樣的素養可以來做協助所以我把這個舉出來希望主委可以把它當成是你任內可以思考的一個方向今天如果軍中弟兄真的覺得一定要用 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6623.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6648.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
軍人證才能在所謂的這種借貸非銀行的借貸能夠借得快借得好那要不要軍中自己來合法化又或者是說軍中覺得要去制定這一部法令可能曠日廢時那麼至少我們現在看到的國軍同袍除序會他完全沒有法制沒有法規的底下 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6649.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6674.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們就乾脆把它廢掉那有兩條路可走主委你怎麼看跟委員報告就我現在的理解就是說過去在組織法裡面已經加入了這個組織的組織法裡面那作用法的部分呢就是好像之前卡在要先要想要訂一個軍人福利條例後來沒有訂那現在最後的是在113年4月29號他們內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6677.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6695.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
就這一個您剛提到軍人及其家屬要在條例的部分要還請本部來重新檢視我現在我下去以後我會盡快的來理解有關這一個部分的條文的內容卡在什麼地方那我會盡快的把它在作用法的部分把它法治化這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6696.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6696.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我會盡快的來了解那個條文的內容好 謝謝林楚英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6731.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6745.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
接下來請往定宇召委好謝謝主席麻煩顧部長顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6756.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6775.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
部長早,作為一個國防部長在這個時候其實最重要是明年度的國防預算大概6、7、8月你們要進行相關的編審那9月份就會送進我們立法院那你又是近年來首位的文人部長所以本期今天第一個比較大的題目是要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6777.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6798.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
目前在你心中的計畫明年度我們的國防預算是否會增加或者顯著增加因為之前蔡英文總統的任內你是國安會秘書長在前4年當時蔡總統有承諾每一年以佔國防預算至少2%的幅度往上成長所以本席這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6800.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6813.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
統計一個表單純看這個預算數國防預算近10年來特別從2018年預算數是逐年顯著增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6814.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6823.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
如果你拿2015年的預算數那個是根據2014年的GDP到2024年的預算數那是根據2023年的GDP在預算數我講的是金額大概成長了38.9%你把4,345億去除3,127億不含特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6843.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6852.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那以這一個我們國內生產毛額來看就是我們的總體經濟來看從2015年反映出的20142024年反映出的2023我們的GDP成長是46% |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6860.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6882.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以用這樣來對照我們的金額是有成長但是還沒有完全跟我們的GDP成長去完全去吻合當然這有很多因素社會福利各項的支出那如果單純看佔GDP比率這個大概是各盟友主要在看的說歐洲的國防預算有沒有達到2%台灣的國防預算有沒有到2.53大概是看這一塊這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6888.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6903.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
如果單純看我們的預算數平常心講雖然我們金額成長了百分之三十多三成以上但我們的GDP佔比呢看起來其實是沒有明顯的成長但是這漏掉一個數據所以本席特別把 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6905.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6930.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
馬政府因為沒有特別預算那在蔡英文政府因為國防採購跨年度先進戰機或者是提高防衛力量的需求我們分別在2020年跟2022年有兩次的特別預算涵蓋年度我都寫在後面的特別預算你把那個金額平均加進去我先提醒平均未必正確因為他有說前面比較少後面比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6930.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6958.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
你把平均加進去的話也確實蔡英文政府的國防預算呢相較於以往是有明顯的增加但是大概這兩年到2.09、2.08左右我把這個基礎數字跟部長做了分析之後我的問題是請問部長你接下來6、7、8、9月大概就要準備編這個預算了會不會增加相較以往金額跟佔比會不會增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6959.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6974.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
跟委員報告,就我的理解明後年的軍頭好像是在支付的高峰期,對,那我們的作業維持會也不斷的增加,所以我當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6976.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7003.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我們會務實的來檢討這個依照這個防衛作案需求來務實檢討不過我當然希望我們的額度這個配付的額度能夠持續穩定的成長那這個部分還需要跟主計長要好好的溝通你如果說說我陪你們去為主計長我也是樂見但我現在提的事情說他有兩個數據顯示出其實盟友常常問我們說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7004.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7023.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
保護自己國家的決心大概不管是預期還有預算大概常問的是這兩件事情那在預算的話有兩個數字一個是金額的總數那這牽涉到我們總體經濟概況如果經濟萎縮金額的總數一定會往下掉另外一個就是佔比 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7025.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7043.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
暫比因為我們有特別預算暫比跟我們的年度國防預算合併計算的話我們現在大概已經超過歐盟的標準我們這2%以上了但是有人會不把特別預算納進去算但是還是合併計算比較妥當所以我還是期待顧立雄部長這一邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7045.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7067.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
在明年我們的國防預算的展現上因為美國他用總統的PDA他用他們的FMF當然也回過頭他們在審議的時候也說那臺灣自己的決心在哪裡部長這邊你心裡的盤算你當然希望越多越好了但世間沒有這麼好的事情我是說你明年的國防預算按照這個數據上來看會不會持續往上走 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7071.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7098.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
就我的理解應該會持續往上走只是增加的幅度到底有多大持續往上走就是一個趨勢嘛對對但是我過去我過去在國安會前也常常說到對啦委員講的沒有錯就是說我們展現自我防衛的決心有時候不是單靠國防預算的量化但是國防預算的量化的這個確實是他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7100.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7119.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那是個外顯現象防衛自己的決心跟能耐未必完全要看這個數字但這個數字常常是檢視的窗口所以我是認為我們國防的進一步改革包括實戰法訓練加防部隊戰力等等這些部分搭配我們國防 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7120.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7120.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
第2個題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7134.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7160.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
最近不管是美國的外委會主席來或之前的蓋拉格來我大概跟他們談的都這三件事情在背景是2023年美國的NDAA也就是他們的財政年度國防授權法案特別把一個美國的叫做這個TERA叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7164.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7179.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
臺灣強韌法,把他的精神納進去,那這個臺灣Enhance Resilience Act這個叫TERRA,他把他納進去之後呢那這邊就有三個面向,可能我要詢問來自於國安會的國防部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7179.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7207.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
第一個根據2023年TERRA的5507條裡面有載明外國軍售計畫下要加速對台軍售那這個我有看到寫在您今天的報告書的第10頁很好那有沒有具體的做法就是說他加速既有已經答應軍售給我們加趕快提早交付給我們以及未來軍售案的能夠提高速度這是第一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7208.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7232.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
第2個在2023年的NDA裡面的TERRA相關的條款對照起來5510條裡面這點就跟最近大家談的很重要美國這個條例是要求把美國的智慧財產權移轉到台灣等於尋找合作廠商來協助台灣在台生產潛在的合作商員來合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7233.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7251.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
這個是根據這個TERRA510條那我們一直在爭取跟美國簽署這個RDPRDP就是互惠國防採購協定供應安全安排SOSA這兩個合併起來講就是讓美國跟台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7252.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7266.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
合作在台灣生產先進的裝備那我綜合起來請你一併回答也就是說這個好處是第一個台灣能夠國防自主那也能夠因應未來的可能性的封鎖 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7268.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7287.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
提升臺灣國防工業及技術能力臺灣可以藉由不管是RDP或者SOSA能夠進入美方跟他盟友的供應鏈這對臺灣的工業界來講是一個很大的利多所以以上這一個部分是不是請部長綜合回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7288.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7310.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
是那個第一個快速對台軍售就我的理解就是已經成立一個叫做Tiger TeamTiger Team 2.0那一段時間了對那就這個部分他結合應該是國會國防部跟國務院那這個Tiger Team的加速對台軍售那具體的哪一些部分他把我們的交運的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7311.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7311.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7330.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7354.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那另外這個共同的就是所謂的co-production在這個部份我想這個部份我們一直積極的在爭取因為我們是一個海島的國家那暫時的時候我們必須要維持一定的這個產業的國防工業的概念這兩年有沒有辦法簽 有沒有可能我 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7357.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7371.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我們在近期爭取,近期可能會有一些結果,再跟委員報告,我想可能在私下再跟委員報告。對,難得看到你結巴,我們不宜公開講了,你就不要公開講。好,謝謝。好,謝謝。我們接下來進行詢答是林德福委員,時間4分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7390.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7395.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
因為AIT官網美國歷史的簡介冷戰、寒戰跟越戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7415.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7434.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
提到戰爭犧牲數十萬的生命也在美國國內造成很大激烈的對立美國人對此也在美國國內除了對立以外從此也謹防再次深陷海外的泥鬧 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7436.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7453.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那人民都希望安居樂業當然本席也不希望台灣成為下一個烏克蘭變成大國角力下的犧牲品本席希望國防部備戰而不起戰用實力來確保和平不輕易的開啟戰端你的看法勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7454.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7474.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
所以委員的看法我想以我們加強我們自我防衛能力來協同區域的盟邦來進行一個協同性的嚇阻來避免戰事的發生我想這個看法跟委員剛剛講的以實力來嚇阻這個是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7476.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7481.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
顧部長賴總統過去在金門當過兵他也去視察過金門大橋若能在823砲戰66週年以總統的升溫再次前往金門來視察瞭解金門 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7493.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7510.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
的這個相關的建設進度請聽金門在地這些鄉親的心聲甚至於發表帶有善意的兩岸談話或許能加速兩岸重啟交流以上建議我也希望顧部長在適當的場合來轉達給賴總統讓他似乎能夠做一個參佐你的幹話呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7518.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7532.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
總統會進行外離島視察我想這個應該是會的那時辰的安排可能會要由總統的辦公室來進行那國防部配合這個總統的視察行程 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7533.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7555.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
至於總統講話要如何我想總統自有他的這個定見我想這個我不是以在這裡幫助自有定見當然有時候你們要適度善意的給他建言因為這一次整個就是交接典禮的時候你提到中華民國、中華人民共和國不不立屬這個根本就是遮本話本來這些話就可以不必講 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7556.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7572.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
現階段本來就是如此但是你為什麼要講出來這個刻意的嘛然後你搞成兵兇戰危對不對老百姓要的是安居樂業阿那個顧部長媒體報導我想國防部的立場就是強化我們的自我防衛能力來達到這個嚇阻共軍不樂意報貓 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7578.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7579.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
國防部長顧立雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7600.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7626.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
是不是因為部隊業務繁重還是部隊內有一些霸凌甚至於管教不當等等還是感情因素財務因素那個部長你有什麼看法我的了解好像還是以這個經濟的因素家庭的因素還有感情因素也有等等這些都有但沒有在特定的哪一個單位好像是分屬不同的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7627.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7644.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
副部長,官兵不分官階都是國家栽培本身是希望顧部長好好的深入了解維護整個國軍官兵的權利不要讓這些基層過勞甚至於顧部長要好好的秉公處理該補的人還是要補人,你來看我勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7645.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7655.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
是,我想這個我們的新府的作為有在加強的地方剛剛有其他委員也有在指教那另外就是說相關的這些戰訓本務之外的這些減少一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7660.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7666.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
顧部長最後一個提議顧部長您過去曾擔任國安會的秘書長蔡總統時期也打算修改全民防衛動員的準備法引發社會的一些議論那被社會大眾批評為為何要動員高中生後來暫緩修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7689.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7709.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
那教育部也停止造冊按照權動法的規定要對學校青年動員來扶勤進行規劃那請問顧部長如果進入動員實施階段全國高中生自我可以留在家裡避難不出門可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7710.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7730.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我想這個部分相關的這些權動法下底下的這相關各部會的一些相關的作為都需要有值得檢討的地方我相信不會有什麼高中生參軍的這樣子的一個作為存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7731.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7740.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
顧部長,全國高中生是否會被國防部和交易部動員到指定的地方來執行保鄉保土甚至於保校的任務,會不會? |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7742.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7766.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
就我的理解應該是沒有這樣子報告委員有關於高中生的部分是教育部他們會依據這個民防法的規定納入這個民防團隊裡面的一個青年扶勤那基本上他們是以自願的方式去扶勤然後再者就是對再者就是他也只會負責一些簡單的服務不會從事任何軍事情務 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7766.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7767.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
謝謝主席,麻煩請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7793.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7799.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
關委員好部長好部長我們剛剛也聽到委員其實都在關切而且最近我們國內也非常熱鬧所有的軍工產業其實都非常熱絡所以就我們剛剛有提到我們的國防預算要增加的部分其實我們更期待的是我們過去我們所支付的款項除了加速軍購以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7819.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7841.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
應該要加速把我們已經付款的部分而且我們急需的這些戰備的武器裝備其實要先到位這個部分可能在這裡也要先提醒一下另外就是部長您也是國防二法執行以後第三位文人部長那在依國防二法裡面它規範明定 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7843.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7852.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
總統率全國陸海空軍指揮軍隊其實主要在國防法第2章第8條裡面總統率全國陸海空軍為三軍統率行使統率權指揮軍隊直接則呈國防部部長由部長命令參謀總長 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7863.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7872.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
指揮執行之那在第13條也提到國防部設參謀本部為部長之軍令幕僚及三軍聯合作戰指揮機構至參謀總長一人陳部長之命令負責軍令事項指揮軍隊換言之軍政跟軍令在我們目前的國防二法裡面還是由國防部長要全權負責因為部長您剛上任 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7891.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7908.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
雖然過去也是在國安會對整個國防可能也都有所接觸不過以現在我們現在看起來因為在國防部今天的報告也有提到共軍常態越過海峽中線以外目前已經抵近我們台灣24海里的部分以現在的機載飛彈能力24海里其實早就可以發起攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7920.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7926.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
所以部長在0523解放軍在維台軍演的時候只花了20分鐘聽取各單位的簡報就離開恆山指揮所然後請參謀總長直接主持長達5到6小時的戰備會議部長沒有做正指揮當然這是您非常信任參謀總長這個也是一個部分不過就我們的國防法裡面規範的其實國防部長還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7947.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7961.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
做最後統整指揮的一個重要的靈魂人物部長在那裡做政指揮有兩個非常重要的一個指標性的一個方向第一就是穩定軍心 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7962.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7970.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
因為過去每次在一些演習或者像這樣碰到一些緊急狀況的時候部長在裡面其實他是可以讓我們所有的三軍他的軍心是可以比較安定隨時都可以掌握狀況另外第二個當然就是掌握即時的狀況因為雖然您把他交付給參謀總長可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7986.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7987.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
對於其他的． |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8014.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8032.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
可能還是可以做第二階段的考量這是在這裡要特別提出來的那因為部長您是剛開始接任是不是在這裡我們也要為一些軍事官兵來請命就是在我們可以看得到部長剛剛我詢問的部分就這個部分你有什麼樣的說明或看法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8042.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8066.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我想跟委員報告我想5月23號那一天早上在7點半就開暫敵警匯報那在這個中間就已經接獲這個共軍要實施這一個聯合力艦的演習所以在當下就已經做了一些指示就是說我們馬上開設應變中心在國防部那因為事實上如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8067.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8095.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
在這個演習的這個期間,國防部的應變中心的相關的這個作業的這個還有他的這個配備呢,其實跟這個橫山指揮所裡面是差不多,不好意思,因為時間的關係,所以我的意思就是說,我事實上做了相關的這個才事,那相關我剛剛也提到了,就這個作戰成績,或者是戰術成績的這個部分呢, |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8095.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8096.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我們沒有第一集,我們就只有智慧權的行使 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8121.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8124.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
自衛權你要什麼時候行使自衛權這個就是一個關鍵的節點如果部長您在他可能參謀總長可能在發生有某些狀況的時候他就不需要再詢問因為你只要轉個頭下個指令因為你已經掌握全局了所以就這個部分我們今天是特別提出來的那另外部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8142.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8143.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
國防部長顧立雄報告業務概況 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8166.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8177.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
已經有很長的一段時間大概都有做這樣的反應就是我們的副食費我們的一些伙食其實是不夠理想那就這個部分因為我們看到這個表格一樣是像替代義男他在民國107年等於是這個幾年了至少 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8189.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8199.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
七八年好久了七年前他們就已經做了調整他們光是每個月的伙食金額已經在本島地區就已經有3200塊可是我們的國軍官兵他的一些伙食副食費的標準本島才2969塊等於說100塊都不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8210.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8214.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
那現在包括像在大直實踐大學一個便當都要120塊那我們一天才99塊三餐喔所以就這個部分很多的藝男其實大概都有做這樣的一個建議希望可以調高這樣的一個金額預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8229.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8229.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
國防部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8260.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8270.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
行政院114年都已經有照顧所有的官兵能夠調高至於你講的那個外島委員提到外島跟外島離島這部分因為金門馬祖跟東沙這幾個地方東引這幾個地方都沒有復工站 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8275.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8275.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8293.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8314.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
除了伙食費外還有一個夜點費夜點費從民國86年到目前為止那個已經經過多少時間夜點費到現在還只有60塊就是宵夜的部分如果大家需要熬夜或者需要很長的時間做這樣子的一個任務的時候我們只有60塊這個部分是不是部長也可以一併的去做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8316.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8324.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
業點會的部分我的瞭解是已經調整了,調整的輔助還蠻大的,所以我們在規劃中還向行政院來溝通,不是我們已經內部已經有一個調整作業的那個,然後我們會參與物價波動型向行政院溝通來整理 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8333.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8351.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
因為我們到目前得到的看到的資訊都是86年前就是現在目前所有詢問所有的官士兵他們大概的夜點費大概就是60塊我們還沒有看到你有新的做法在這個部分如果有我們當然也是希望可以盡快實施那另外還有一個時間不好意思因為時間比較緊迫我們現在在叫招的部分有叫招到因為過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8359.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8365.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
男性的那個護理師其實是比較少的可是現在越來越多現在我們全國的醫院就是醫病比其實是護病比其實是高達1比6或1比15所以當我們叫召這樣的人員進來的時候等於醫院甚至有一個醫院也會是同時叫召到兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8382.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8386.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
所以如果你少掉一個護士或者兩個護士的時候等於你必須要關床15人到30人這對我們現在對於我們的整個醫療院所缺護理人員這樣子的一個狀況是雪上加霜這個部分是不是我們可以做一個事實的調整讓他們可以在醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8405.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8423.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
不影響我們所有就醫的這樣子的一個情況之下我們去做一些調整不是說不要爭而是在現階段我們缺護理人員這麼嚴重的情況之下不一定要先爭他們你可以先爭像那些衛教人員好像這個部分是不是可以做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8424.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8426.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
委員好有關於委員這部分因為我們有訂這個緩竹緊招的相關規定那也有相關的作業規定那細部的部分因為目前是沒有把這相關人員列入那委員的建議我們會回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8439.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8440.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
請提供資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8465.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8487.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
剛才那個夜點費跟伙食相關的有調整的資料麻煩報本委員會就是確定的案子確定的版本第一個詢問一下我們剛才有財事休息但因為今天國防部長有軍談我還是希望讓每個委員都能問到顧部長本人我先問一下那個部長需不需要休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8487.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8489.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進,有請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8511.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8537.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
市長老委員好市長部長你好你辛苦啦沒有休息齁這個我也是很佩服啊這個天眾英明啊你要什麼職位都可以做了齁從黨長會做到金管會做到國安會現在國防部啊下一次不知道做什麼不知道啦齁剩下就是當院長還怎麼用還是要升總統還是怎麼樣你什麼都不做勒為什麼最後是你當國防部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8541.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8568.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
我當然知道你很難回答啦齁你你你可能覺得自己看一看自己有什麼特徵跟我問為什麼蔡英文這麼傻你啊賴清德也傻你還是說蔡英文是託付給賴清德說這個人一定要用是怎麼樣報告委員我想我我只能說我戰戰基金竊勝以對竊下這份工作這樣子有心情可以做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8569.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8594.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我努力,我盡我最大努力要接了就要做好喔,國防部長謝謝全台灣人民的生命財產交到你手上喔來我們來看看喔這個最近美國在選總統的兩個人一個拜登一個川普 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8595.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8622.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
講的話拜登說解讀的意思外面很多解讀他的原文不是這樣子解讀是說如果台灣被中國大陸入侵了拜登會防衛台灣有人把解讀說出兵我是打一個問號川普說轟炸北京這個請問你你是國防部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8625.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8651.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
你是不是得到這樣的訊息說如果大陸打台灣美國會去打大陸是這樣子嗎跟委員報告我覺得我簡單的回應三點第一點這個是只是顯示我想台海和平的穩定是全球安全與繁榮不可或缺的一部分也就是說它涉及到整個台灣或者台海地區和平穩定的重要性你精簡的回答我 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8652.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8654.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
川普說要打大陸,封炸大陸有沒有這個可能? |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8677.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8695.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我想這個我已經說過了我並不清楚川普整個演講的全文這樣的去脈絡化的言語我沒有辦法加以評論這樣子你不覺得他們兩個都在飆車嗎因為今年的年底美國的總統要選舉了競爭非常激烈打台灣牌 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8697.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8700.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
現在我就是請問你美國真的要幫助台灣不管真的出兵假的出兵其實我都提出很多問題為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8716.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8727.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
6月開始29屆的環太平洋軍事演習沒有邀我們啊連觀察員都沒有6月26號到8月2號舉行的我們都沒參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8729.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8748.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我們中間真的要幫台灣來打仗的話怎麼打呢?所以這些東西到底的選舉語言我現在就問你說這個前提川普也好拜登也好那個前提是台灣已經變戰場了台灣已經被打得稀巴爛了這是我們所關心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8750.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8766.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
我想我還是強調這個是一個所謂的一個為了維護這個印太地區的和平穩定所實施的一種以實力來跟決心來避免戰爭的發生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8769.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8789.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我想為最高的一個美國的最大的利益講得很謹慎你的意思白話文可不可以這樣解讀就是說要不要清兵你不知道模糊的然後呢一切就希望台灣能夠台海安定就這樣這是符合我想符合全世界的利益那我講完好不好那把這一句要講完 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8791.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8807.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
是你是認為你現在跟上一任的部長完全做不一樣喔邱部長是認為兩岸很緊張所以呢這個相關的這個政府主管不可以通俗休假你現在全部放了是你認為你現在看得太很太平 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8808.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8810.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
最後一個我要講一個這兩天27家將近30家軍火商拜會賴清德你有沒有在旁邊作賠 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8836.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8839.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我不知道他有拜會,沒有拜會賴總統吧?沒有這樣的狀況存在私下跟賴委員報告一下好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8851.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8853.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我沒有這樣的訊息我要講一下喔這個如果真的這樣一個軍火商跑到總統府去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8880.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8895.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
指向太難看了,我們交的錢軍火也不交報告賴委我本身沒有接獲任何這方面的訊息謝謝賴世保委員,部長請回我們接下來進行詢問的委員是林黛華委員時間4分鐘有請部長來,部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8907.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8931.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
好本席針對軍隊文化跟心理輔導預防機制的矛盾跟失衡本席剛才呢這個聽了您的質詢之後我覺得難怪我們的這個心腹工作會崩潰第一個沒有釐清到底我的心腹工作是一個醫療行為還是一般的軍事業務的運作這是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8932.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8948.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
第二,你一直尋求外援的諮商,他們確實是專業,但是他們是不懂軍中文化的,軍中文化是封閉的,高壓的,我們軍人是24小時365天工作的,在軍中之外的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8949.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8966.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
是依照牢機法所以這一般的心理治療師他可以知道這樣的軍中文化嗎所以你一直尋求外援當然沒有辦法來了解這個我們軍中的弟兄心理智商應該怎麼符合我們的生態去做質詢所以縱觀來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8969.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8991.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
部長跟我們現在的政戰局長你們叫做外行好所以呢我針對這幾個議題三個第一個心腹功能力不足的二進循環第三你們號稱的心理輔導三級房主本期認為這個房主呈現了三缺缺少心理專業人員缺少深談時間缺少空心腹空間的基層困境第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8992.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9009.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
新府工作室醫療行為還是軍隊管理的組織治理這一點是重點部長你也必須很清楚的在這個質詢台當中去明確的表達這樣的主張或者你們拉拉扎扎的剛才這個局長這個爬出了我們維安徵後12個樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9012.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9029.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
在錯誤的心理輔導的一個你們的認定上他是一般軍務那你就是這個叫什麼你們叫做人道關懷心理輔導叫做人道關懷跟我在醫療臨床的心理諮商 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9030.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9057.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
這是兩碼子的事難怪我的國軍軍袍會整個的心裡崩潰當我看到那個數據從今年1月到5月我們累積了快18、19個案例你第19個案例是我拒文再來在你上任之後兩個案例那是多麼讓人家震撼啊跟慚愧的畫面啊竟然你上來之後我一個弟兄就活生生的從國防部部本部給我跳下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9060.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9077.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
這個如果在我地方首長阿或哪一個我們這個區域選出的他不趕快不會被民意壓垮才快竟然我們可以毫無動靜的我們的局長還拉拉扎扎的講了這12項的爬書以為你在做研究工作阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9078.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9099.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
他部長您是這個國安也好律師也好對各諮商啊真的是完全是真的是外行所以倒的我的同袍他在整個軍備的前線在應戰的時候結果我的心裡他是人耶我們同袍是人耶他的壓力無所無所依戒 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9099.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9123.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
好,在這最後我有具體的要求什麼叫做我們人力不足的二線循環連監察院的報告都說我國軍的心腹機制是流於形勢喔服從跟紀律是軍人的目標軍中生活的封閉跟高壓因為金石案、金金案、金粹案以及加上我今天的少者而造成軍中人力的短缺工作量過於繁重而衍生不合理的情況國軍的編制從45萬精檢到15萬8千 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9127.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9156.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
再加上我臺海局勢的急轉直下國防壓力的巨深能力比以前少但我任務是比以前多的現在你們各位長官部長你們現在所有的都是舊思維希望我們凡事都能兼顧所以不願正式跟原理合理的這個任務分配心腹工作長期未落實這就剛才本行覺得非常竟然你們可以這麼的淡定的處理從1月到5會有17位智商 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9157.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9171.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
以稅喔!然後呢有兩起是在你任內你上任之後就兩起喔!還有我據聞沒有公布的在這一個禮拜一又一名同儕養藥而自殺未遂所以你們的零智商從2016年起現在累積136人 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9174.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9201.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
好我們看這個表本辦公室爬書出來你最後的那17、18從1月到5月這張表然後呢再來我們的所謂新府三級房主是三缺這當中的缺少專業人員你們現在長期的推動叫做心理輔導三級房主你們什麼長期房主呢初級的發掘預防啊我們這叫做二級專業輔導啊如果真不行就送醫院了 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9202.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9222.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那幾乎就是就幾乎是精神精神病的狀態了怎麼會是有這個這個這到第三級就已經是無不可逆的醫療醫療的處置了好我軍中的第一線負責的輔導長本身就缺乏專業的心腹症狀你知道我們輔導長平均多少多少歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9223.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9225.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
24到28歲耶幾乎一個碩士剛畢業耶他要面對比自己年長的這軍事官你覺得他合適來做心理輔導嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9235.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9254.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
再來,你國軍警檢之後,面對岸的兵官,好,OK,缺乏,這個,包括你們的聲談喔,你們現在聲談的時間都沒有,因為軍務操務得很繁重,連要聲談都沒有時間,好,基層的心理空間,你們不是,心理空間不是輔導長,是 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9256.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9270.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
兼用呢就是這個慘白的牆壁門窗上鎖且毫無溫暖所以呢現在你們的三級防築呢叫做人人是自殺防制守門人的一個口號再來你是要以部隊為重還是以人為重當領導與輔導身份發生衝突的時候該如何是好 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9275.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9297.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
本席點出你的輔導長跟新輔官的職長衝突第一個輔導長的職長是政長第二個軍中的官階封閉性及服從的特有性第三新輔工作是醫療行為還是軍中管理的組織治理行為最後在這邊你知道在全部的軍種我們158000 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9302.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9317.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
全軍種15萬人但是你只有紙張的心理證照69張也就是一位心腹員你要負責2289個心腹工作你只有69張合格的好那我再爬書你們現在叫做你們這個人道關懷 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9320.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9332.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
軍中當中的心腹工具跟我民間醫療臨床的心理諮商工具我就把它爬梳出來你現在軍方叫做大兵手記然後再來叫做檢視、量表、測、測、測、測、測是用手機賴群處理喔最後叫互談紀錄表好那民間呢跟醫療的臨床是什麼面對面的諮商、多元、多元型態的藝術治療及電腦的檢測評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9347.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9364.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
的這個系統最後把你所得的這個樣態個案追蹤網路化的大數據的樣態分析最後這張我的軍職人員跟專業心腹人員的16萬的士官兵對照69張的專業我的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9367.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9374.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
你是1700億的一個人事費對比240萬的這個心理輔訓訓練費這張表240萬是你們提供的最後本期的具體建議我最後講因為這個其實沒有人這樣講過他們第一個我具體建議單任輔導長心理輔導一定要具備心理諮商師或社工師的證照 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9390.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9411.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
我個人主張從軍醫系統你凡是要有你軍醫當中有心理諮商系有社工系你要畢業一定要拿到證照他們才能夠執業你現在畢業不用拿到證照你一直尋求外援只有你在軍醫系統第二個接近美國軍醫的心理系統與隨軍的神職人員所以呢在這邊本國是多元宗教文化所以呢研議在軍營當中設置小型的檢疫參拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9418.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9423.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
是一個可以沉澱的這個場域比照我們各大醫院跟機場最後現其改善新衛中心的內部佈置第4點在你的陣戰組織下把心理輔導心理之三單獨一個處提出來以上建言謝謝林委員那部長您介不接受請提供書面給國防部主席是不是讓他表達他完全否定 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9445.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9447.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
還是說你接受這樣的建議還是要繼續的英雄苟且部長再要回答就好然後繼續讓我們的同胞再繼續往下掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9455.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9474.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
跟剛剛委員報告剛剛委員提出的三缺我想我有相當程度的認同那我們會按照委員的指示我們來積極那你認為他是一個醫療行為還是一個還是一個是一個醫療行為還是軍務的操作那個林委員你比較少來我們這邊我們時間真的要控管抱歉一下因為他今天有軍談他待會要離開其他委員還要問部長你再繼續你再繼續如果你不重視我們的醫療就會一直跳你還憑什麼你有什麼資格做我三軍統帥之下的海陸空三軍的領導人 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9484.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9485.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
謝謝主席,我請部長來部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9509.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9532.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
首先謝謝主席跟部長就是取消休息時間讓我們可以多問一點我想先請教部長您的前任邱部長曾經說臺海之間嚴峻的情勢讓他睡不著覺那你剛才在回答馬文君委員的時候也講說臺海之間的情勢依然嚴峻所以我想請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9534.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9543.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
部長你從接任國防部長之後你有失眠過嗎?你有像邱部長一樣也會因為嚴峻的情勢睡不著覺嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9545.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9547.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
另外請教你上任第4天在中共就做環島軍演 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9571.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9597.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那麼而且呢他的軍演代號是聯合力艦2024A那麼在之前我也問了國安局局長認不認為這樣的一個環島軍演會常態化因為他代號是A所以被認為說未來還可能有B還可能有C所以以部長現在你的評估這個環島軍演還有今年會不會再上演這樣的環島軍演 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9599.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9617.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
跟委員報告,我們持續的密切關注中共的動態,我們也都能夠掌握相關的動態。那我們沒辦法排除,但我們會密注這個相關的這個情況。好,所以不排除。那請問一下,在23號的環島軍演,你們是什麼時候得到就是有軍演的訊息? |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9619.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9645.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
科文委員報告我想這個辦法沒有辦法說明為什麼沒有辦法說明我只能夠說我們會有一些徵喉然後會有一些預判那相關的這個預判在他們召開記者會之前我們掌握到訊息嗎在他們發布之前我們有一些徵喉就已經在只有徵喉但是沒有訊息我們根據相關的徵喉就會做一些預判 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9646.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9671.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
好但是我覺得從剛才聽到部長其實都有四兩步欠金但是另外一個剛才馬文俊委員也特別問到就是在環島軍演的時候我們國防部開記者會說第一級也還是由我們國防部長來下令那剛才講說沒有第一級是自衛權好那我想請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9673.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9680.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
你針對如果你會下令展開自衛權也好或者第一級也好你的定義是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9682.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9700.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
跟委員報告還是就是說我們是只有共軍對我們發動第一擊我們是行使自衛權那共軍的第一擊你的定義是什麼就是共軍攻擊我在航基建設施共軍攻擊我本外離島或者未經許可任何飛航實體進入我12海裏的領空領海 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9704.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9729.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
所以你包括了就是只要進入領海或領空你就可以下令做自衛權對因為是威脅的程度我們會和比例的做自衛緩急所以你包含開炮開槍就是攻擊我們的航空器或攻擊我們的基地等等之類的還有包含就是只要進入領海領空那麼就是你第一級的一個定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9730.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9742.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
基本上就是說,任何飛航實體沒有經過許可的話,我們進入我們的領空領海的話,我們就會視它的威脅程度進行合比例的自衛反擊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9744.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9765.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
另外請教一下就是當時在這個他的環島軍演的時候你去參加應變作戰會議你只停留了5分鐘請問一下部長這個外界其實有很大的質疑為什麼當天你只停留5分鐘跟委員報告我想這個不是一個停留5分鐘的 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9767.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9785.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這個狀況事實上是在7點半我們就開始做了這個暫提情匯報你聽了幾分鐘我們在7點半就開始實施暫提情匯報在暫提情匯報的期間中共發布要實行歷屆演習我就已經在會中做下了一些指示指示之後呢開始應變中心應變中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9787.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9807.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
開設之後我進去聽取相關的敵情的當時敵情的狀況之後那我接下去處置的一些措施交由總長來負責主持所以你不否認得知軍演就得知軍演之後你去聽敵情的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9809.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9809.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
在7點40幾分的時候就已經發佈了 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9820.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9846.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
部長這個事情其實讓外界對你第一個可能很多人覺得你是不是沒有進入狀況另外一個是不是你聽了之後你是我想你不至於聽不懂但是這個五分鐘事實上是讓外界對你能不能掌握敵情然後你可不可以下達指令你可不可以行使你國防部職權大家非常大的一個質疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9846.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9847.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這一次去開行政院院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9873.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9874.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
接下來進行詢答委員是黃國昌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9901.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9904.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
部長,您接任那個位置的時候,跟前任的部長有沒有交接? |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9919.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9920.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
上一任在部長的時候我有請教部長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9948.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9967.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
因為這個公管營區的弊案他直接牽涉到的說這位負責的少將他在一場關鍵的會議當中他去更改了整個招標的規格那減少施作了很多的評訴也減少施作了很多的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9968.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9993.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
其中一個關鍵的會議是在4月24號的時候因為我看了國防部的行政調查報告包括舊版跟新版新版是起訴以後的調查報告其實你們後來提供我又在拜讀其實跟起訴前的調查報告基本上實質上可以說是一模一樣我在新版的調查報告的時候我一樣沒有看到說為什麼在4月24號的關鍵會議沒有會議記錄上一次巡查的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9998.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10015.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
回答的當部長回答的我們國防部的同仁說這樣沒有會議記錄是不正常的事情那針對這件事情我想要理解說部內後來有沒有在檢討這麼重要的會議竟然去修改了招標規格為什麼沒有會議記錄請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10019.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10032.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
我粗淺的了解,等一下再請法律事務所長講,因為我之前就有相關了解就是說在這個部分確實有疏失的樣子,因為他好像原來在軍備局,後來到轉換另外一個他從空軍到軍備局 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10033.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10035.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我相信國人很痛心沒有人可以忍受 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10059.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10087.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我們在討論這件事情其實取決於兩個第一個事情是責任的追究該追究的責任要追究但追究責任不僅僅是追究責任我們要預防未來不會再發生所以我現在具體的問題是說我們現在大家確認了剛剛部長也說了這個是一個疏失那未來我們在有關於採購的這個SOP上面我們是不是應該要去建立一個最基本的規範如果牽涉到招標規格的修改 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10088.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10114.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
要有文字紀錄要有人負責部長或司長在不贊成我跟委員報告這個案子發生了之後我記得我們後續的檢討還有軍備局現在有的一些相關的規定裡面就這個部分已經有更改如果說一定程度的關係約時間的關係你會後齁把你們法規怎麼更改的好更改前的法規更改後的法規送一份給我這樣可以嗎好可以嗎好第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10116.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10128.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
統包需求的修訂軍備局可以管嗎?請部長要請市長代答我也OK啦統包需求的修訂是軍備局可以管的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10131.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10152.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
因為這個牽涉到層層的環節啊30億公管營區的案子要給空子部我們大家都支持啊但發生這麼嚴重的貪賭案件我們一定要去檢討行政流程到底出了哪裡的問題讓不孝的人可以上下其手嘛所以剛剛說以後這種修改規格的必須要有會議紀錄這個我認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10154.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10161.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
但是規範在哪裡 要寫清楚那第二個 統高需求修訂是軍備局可以管的嗎要部長還是市長都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10162.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10180.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
我跟委員報告,他的整個作業流程,因為我不是管工程的,我沒有記得這麼清楚,但是...合共會主席站起來,你會後跟我講,可以嗎?我事實上跟你們講啦,你們自己的調查報告,白紙黑字就寫,這不是軍備局可以管的啦!這不是軍備局可以管的啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10184.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10205.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
你們怎麼對自己的調查報告比我還不熟最後一件事情我只花30秒我要特別拜託部長演一件事情因為過去兩個禮拜有一個畫面讓我看了很心酸其實我認識他但是我看他每天在那邊吹風淋雨在立法院外面我看了心裡滿難過的就蔡雪良的媽媽 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10206.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10223.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我不曉得部長今天來的時候是不是有看到蔡媽媽還有她的布條那其實她要的很簡單她要的只有一個真相因為在2020年的時候臺大法醫研究所做出來的鑑定報告說她兒子死亡的時候根本就不是T-65K2步槍及子彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10226.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10249.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
所造成的那當然因為他所發現的這個新的證據已經超過了我們對於再審期間的限制所以他提再審沒有過他提再審沒有過並不是因為沒有再審的事由而是超過了那個再審的期間部長您過去曾經講過面對過去的冤案我們應該要翻箱倒櫃的追問 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10251.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10276.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這個精神我非常的認同我們在面對軍煙的時候特別是傷心欲絕的家人的時候我們政府其實真的有責任將心比心給對方一個真相一個公道所以我最後的懇求是這個樣子我不知道國防部有沒有收到蔡媽媽的陳情國防部可不可以慎重的在考慮重啟一次行政調查把最近 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10277.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10289.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
法院研究所他們所抽出來的鑑定的報告納入你們重啟行政調查的範圍當中最起碼告慰家屬給家屬一個真相跟交代部長這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10290.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10311.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
跟委員報告,因為這個案子之前我就有瞭解,我的瞭解是平淵協會那一邊已經幫他窮盡了所有相關司法的程序所以光部即使再次重啟行政調查,是不是能夠讓他在司法救濟上能夠有所得,我想在法律上 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10312.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10337.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
施法救濟的途徑我相信顧部長之前是個大律師我們都很了解訴訟法相關的規定但我現在在跳脫的已經不是施法救濟程序是他現在卡在心中的那個真相他兒子到底怎麼走的那法醫研究所驗出來的跟當初的結果不一致就這個部分國防部願意再重啟調查給這位傷心欲絕的媽媽一個基本的交代嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10338.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10351.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
因為司法的調查,據我的了解已經把所有相關的證人都找去了,我們如果要再重啟行政調查,這可能那個權限的範圍是相當有限是 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10352.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10381.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
但是我覺得阿你們最起碼把他心中卡的這個疑點因為他現在提出來的鑑定報告阿就不是那個行的步槍所導致的嘛黃委員這個我想雙方立場表達清楚啦我建議國防部研議一下啦畢竟是一個跑者的性命一個媽媽的擔憂是你也可以慎重考慮因為我每天上班都看到蔡媽媽在立法院門口我看了心裡很難過啦部長這樣可以嗎其實上禮拜好像有找過他啦上禮拜我們有碰過面阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10382.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10395.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
國防部有主動找他們那是不是相關情形再跟黃委員進行溝通其實不用跟我溝通啦跟蔡媽媽溝通讓蔡媽媽可以接受我覺得這才是最重要的事情我們持續來跟他進行這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10400.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10425.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
這件事情請部長思考怎麼處理比較妥適當然有法律的有媽媽希望一個答案各方面的也呈現國防部對我們炮轍如果有冤的時候我們處理的方式跟態度那也許法律方式都已窮盡怎麼樣呈現我們對人關懷的這一塊那你們有主動找蔡媽媽這是好事情這是好的開始好謝謝接下來進行詢答的委員是李昆城委員時間4分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10433.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10459.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
好,謝謝主席,請顧部長來,部長請來,部長辛苦了李委員好謝謝,那也先恭喜部長這個是歷史上第七位文人部長那因為時間有限的關係我先請教部長這個有媒體傳出來就是說在參訊的時候你有提到說你要仿效美軍國防創新單位成立一個先進國防科技小組請問一下有沒有這回事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10460.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10463.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
有那他的任務的編組主要是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10465.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10491.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
現在是一個附加編組的一個狀態那我們現在是放在整平室國防部的整平室裡面那主要的任務是什麼主要的任務當然就是說我們去訪尋訪這個國內外相關相對成熟的這個技術然後將這個成熟的技術依照作戰的這一個需求能夠快速的納入到我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10494.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10520.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
臺海防衛作戰構想,特別是在不對稱作戰這一塊。對,因為我看報道是說,關於不對稱作戰這一部分,部長也相當的重視,然後要相對成熟的一些科技項目,比如說新型無人機、船舶,確保臺海防衛不對稱作戰的優勢。那這個也是先進國防科技小組的主要任務嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10522.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10544.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
就是說我們著重在不對稱作戰的這一塊那當然無人機無人體對然後還有指管AI的這個運用因為AI的運用可能可以在指管的部分然後還有擊殺鏈的建構部分都發揮相當大的作用所以我們會大致上會在這一塊裡面先行琢磨那另外還有其他我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10546.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10549.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
現在無人機有軍用軍規的無人機,中科院主導,還有軍用商規的無人機,這個民間的無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10571.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10595.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
其實現在產業也正在蓬勃的發展那我請教一下部長這個軍用商規的無人機我按照這個立法院預算中心的評估報告指出在2024到2028年間這個軍用商規的數量會達到6款總共3422架的規模那我先請教一下我們的部長我們的軍用軍規無人機有沒有抗GPS干擾的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10596.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10611.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我想有一些這個抗GPS干擾就是我們現在應該要來努力所以部長你這樣講是說目前我們的軍用軍規無人機沒有抗GPS的干擾嗎這個中科院說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10613.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10636.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
軍用軍規最主要是用軍規的標準來做那這個抗GPS的功能是一定有但是我想這邊還是容我保留,會後再跟委員做說明是有抗GPS還是抗無線電的干擾我們是防人家的干擾主要是抗相關對我們導航系統的干擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10637.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10652.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
至少我知道了啦從這個媒體上面有兩種干擾啦一種是GPS的干擾另外一個是無線電的干擾嘛還有一種就是電子干擾電子干擾那我好那我們軍用軍規的這個無人機能夠抗這三種干擾嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10654.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10657.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
在規格裡面我們有把它列入評審的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10682.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10711.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
委員請說明一下我們在規格裡面有把它列為評選加分的標準但是沒有一定規定說一定要有這個抗GPS的干擾就對了應該是說它的抗干擾能力越強它越容易被我們評選我是建議啦但當然你們是專家我只是就這個民意代表一般普通的常識來判斷啦不管是軍用軍規軍用商規我都希望它能夠有抗GPS的干擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10712.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10712.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10742.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10743.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
接下來進行詢答的委員是陳冠廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10787.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10788.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
主席麻煩請部長來部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10797.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10817.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
陳委員好部長好部長剛才李委員有提到說這個DIU國防創新小組那這一個概念其實在2015年美國就已經在國防部就已經成立這一個國防創新小組他是希望用更快速的方式來取得相關的武器裝備系統服務後勤等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10818.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10818.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10837.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10862.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
那蕭副總統在2月份的時候也有預錄影片的時候主要是講科技與國安的關係所以我想請問一下在這個國防創新小組之外還有一個叫做Defense Innovation Board就是國防創新委員會我想請教部長有沒有針對這個部分從上而下從戰略到戰術的執行部分有沒有相關的計畫未來都有做相關的處置再問什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10864.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10877.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
針對DIB的部分它其實是美國國防部針對未來科技運用它的一個臨時性的組織它網絡民間的人士和軍方專業的人士我們也都會有這樣子的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10878.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10903.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
因為他這個臨時性的組織到現在已經好幾年了那包含商業界學術界生物化學科技還有包含我們國防安全產業鏈都納入他裡面討論包含前Google的CEO這個史密特這些重要的科技巨頭全部都可以直接進來然後去跟國防安全相關的產業來進行對話我們來看一下來第三頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10907.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10926.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
現在我們要面臨的中國威脅我們必須要用更快速的方式更創新的方式更致命的方式我為什麼把三大階段把它放在上面就是希望從教育開始就能夠讓這一個不同產業界的人能夠進入那我想大家應該很熟悉Hacking for Defense的這種相關的課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10927.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10927.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
國防部長顧立雄報告業務概況 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10942.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10942.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
國防部長顧立雄報告業務概況：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10970.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10971.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
立法院第11屆第1會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10995.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11019.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
讓這些原型產品的開發競速驗證能夠加速最後再透過合作跟協作的管道讓科技界、新創產業界甚至是成熟的商業界的巨頭能夠加入所以從最開始的科技的研發到投資到資本擴充到從一個新創產業變成有規模的產業它是有一個Pipeline這個Pipeline就是生產的管道創新的管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11021.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11046.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
如果美國這一個其實他並不太需要說所謂用這個不對策戰爭因為他不管是在任何陸海空不對策戰爭裡面他都是大概是國防安全領域裡面最強的霸主但是他們都還願意去嘗試用新的管道從教育到加速到合作到協作讓每一個不同產業界的人都能夠產業進入到這一個市場裡面我認為這是我們必須要正視的 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11047.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11067.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
剛才幾位國民黨的立法委員不斷地在針對這些美國的國防的供應商來台灣大家都好像非常的忌憚說好像我們講的這個就是跟軍火商有關我們就非常的擔心我們就非常的害怕就這個都必須要三尖其口最好是不要發表任何的意見最好是跟這些國防產業鏈都沒有關係最好我認為這是錯誤的 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11069.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11096.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
不要把這些美國的國防產業當成是怎麼會變成是我們國安上面這是我們最重要的供應商之一然後我們把他講的好像要跟他劃清界限一樣並不是這樣子他們也在美國的國防產業裡面扮演重要的角色啊我們同時也需要這些重要的武器設備系統後勤啊我們怎麼可以把他們好像說最好是不要見最好是不要看到最好新聞不要講到好像他們來的時候我們就是好像是我們跟他採買就好像出現什麼狀況一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11097.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11122.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
這是不對的沒有一個國家需要安全設備需要國防戰略的資產像我們一樣的我們必須要面對是中國的挑戰我們自己一個人沒有辦法去面對必須要跟我們其他國家合作嘛包含日本包含菲律賓包含美國這些國防產業鏈我們必須要進入而且不必害怕說我們要進入這些產業鏈不僅是對方的市場能夠進來我方的市場我方的市場也可以進入對方的市場阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11123.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11146.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
臺中也好或者是我們中南部有這麼多我這個相關機密機械的零件的製造商怎麼會不能夠參加呢所以我必須講到剛才我們提到這三大階段其實這些階段性任務裡面包含教育裡面都可以歡迎我們的產業鏈的這些重要的企業的這些供應商進駐他還知道說現在的國防產業裡面他們缺少什麼樣的狀況缺少什麼樣的設備他們才可以進入這個產業鏈嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11147.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11165.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
所以我們說用快速的方式用創新的方式來去加入我們這樣的產業的這個國防產業的這個更加蓬勃我認為這是有必要的那部長我想剛剛講這麼多我是希望說呃部長可以畢竟是文人部長他不見得是要用過去的思維 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11166.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11185.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
您覺得接下來有沒有辦法讓更多不同的業界的人士也不見得是只有跟國防相關人士進入我們的國防體系跟委員報告現在的國防工業它有一個比較大幅的一個變化是過去都是幾大軍火工業商 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11185.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11210.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
但事實上現在因為這個AI的技術發展的結果很多矽谷的他已經加入了這個國防產業鏈的一部分那所以我們在這一塊不管是在我當任國安會期間或到國防部我想我們當時發想在成立DIU的這個時候的目的就是在引進這些相對於他們已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11213.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11213.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
謝謝部長,那我們來談一下這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11238.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11258.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
另外一個非常重要的就是無人機跟軍工產業的部分特別是在我們的民雄航太園區那我想民雄航太園區裡面有中科院的航太及無人機園區那還會規劃西側的這個產業園區那之前我們也一再的跟之前的前任的院長跟部長來去詢問說有沒有辦法可以協助我們西側產業園區的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11260.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11284.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
我認為就如同我們剛才講到的這一個三大階段裡面的加速加速器就是把創新管道能夠提供實驗室資源設備資源等等讓這些加速原型產品的開發核心技術的驗證所以過去在美國是有把一些先進的這一個包含這一個火箭推動的實驗室是有讓一些民間的企業跟國防產業上的企業可以去租用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11285.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11285.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
民運雄航太園區西側基地 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11301.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11323.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
就是要引入這個民間的包括這個相關的這些不管是航太或無人機的相關研發的產製的工作那再結合我們東側的中科院園區的研發試驗的能量然後再結合經濟部的想像的亞創中心的創新研發一組的無人機的測試場我們來共同打造嘉義無人機的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11323.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11323.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
韓蓋經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11349.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11353.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
接下來進行詢答的委員是羅廷偉委員謝主席有請部長來部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11370.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11388.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
部長好,台灣維俄有主權意涵的象徵,我想外交部跟國防部,一個捍衛國家利益,不容侵犯,一個守護國家的主權。作為少數非君子出身的文人部長,國人對部長有很多的期待,比如國人希望部長能夠讓解放軍不敢武力犯台。 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11389.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11412.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
國軍的眷屬會希望部長可以找回軍人的尊嚴國軍的弟兄姊妹希望部長可以多照顧好國軍這個大家庭讓軍人保衛國家可以安心安家部長安心安家這一點我認為非常重要那我想跟你探討一下我們邊線比偏低的一個問題部長請問理論上國軍邊線比要達到百分之多少才是正常戰力的結構 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11418.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11440.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
請問國防部目前各軍種的邊線比是多少?方便透露嗎?呃,跟委員我想,各比就不透露,總的來講現在是78。78?就我手上知道,國軍戰鬥部隊,因為不管是陸軍的聯兵連,或者是空軍的聯隊,海軍的艦隊,後備線兵支通電的一個軍線比,我們不一一細談。 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11441.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11457.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
但是我要跟大家報告的是國軍戰鬥部隊的邊線比大多都低於80%如同你剛剛說的齁要達到80%我們現在只有78代表著現在正常的戰力結構但現在低於80請問問題您覺得大概數在哪裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11458.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11472.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
跟委員報告我了解就是說我們主戰部隊特別在北部地區的邊線筆確實是過地了是那我們必須要針對這些主戰部隊的邊線筆過地的這個原因呢要 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11474.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11501.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
對陣下要來提升北部地區的主戰部隊的邊線比因為這個第13專區加衛戍作戰是我們的重中之重所以我想這個部分我已經責成他們就是針對這個特別是北部地區的主戰部隊我們要來適切的來提出一個具體的一個好的方案來增加招募以外也增加流營率這個是很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11502.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11529.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
謝謝部長重視這個問題我們都擔心武力犯台我們都希望守護中華民國而現在我們看到台灣面臨少子化的問題我就不細談了少子化已經造成人口數越來越少因應敵情各部隊的邊線比比例較低又卻又不斷的擴編喔兵力的成長能力我們擔憂到底從何而來國防部因應少子化以及一級變革部隊擴編等現象造成國軍部隊的邊線比偏低如何提升誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11530.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11541.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
福利以及薪資結構招募更多的人對於這個薪資結構的部分您覺得替我們的國軍弟兄來爭取更多的福利來加薪這個您可以認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11544.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11571.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
對這個這個我我我我看他們給我這個加級啊這個加級一覽表啊就相當的長啊是那我覺得呃我們要跟主計呃總處要來爭取的時候啊我覺得我剛剛已經講了戰鬥部隊的加級等等的那呃這這些部分啊我們是不是要能夠對症下藥在這一點上對症下藥然後來持續的研擬喔因為時間有限啦我是在舉例啦齁因為包括現在流營的獎勵目前怎麼發放 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11574.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11602.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
劉銀的獎勵跟委員說明一下就是我們現在劉銀第一年就是一萬七第二年三萬三第三年五萬目前我們在積極爭取這三年內來領十萬那我先講啦不好意思時間有限沒有要考導你只是希望能夠有更多的建議為什麼預備役有劉銀獎勵為什麼常備役卻沒有軍人的福利我們希望能夠一一的慢慢的提升我舉例國軍返鄉的車程能不能補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11603.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11618.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
這個我們應該好好的討論外離島的服役的官士兵從外離島返台的車程不管是船或者是飛機都有補助但是從到回到台灣本島回到自己的各縣市這個有沒有補助這個我們是不是應該來研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11619.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11641.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
新資的結構軍人是一種專職的工作和醫生護理師公務人員都一樣負的責任可能更特殊一點軍人的年資業務量工作環境等等部長您來自民間也當過金管會的主委應該很清楚民間企業的狀況國軍的新資待遇以及對於民間企業的新資部長我認為有提升很大的幅度的空間當然主戰部隊更應該加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11642.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11644.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
接下來進行詢答委員﹚中加兵委員﹚中加兵委員﹚中加兵委員不在﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11665.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11682.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
羅智強委員 羅智強委員 羅智強委員不在吳思瑤委員 吳思瑤委員 吳思瑤委員不在蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員不在游浩委員 游浩委員 游浩委員不在林俊憲委員 林俊憲委員 林俊憲委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11683.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11702.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
今日已登記質詢委員出不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有林益君委員、羅志祥委員、蘇清泉委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報相關單位已書面於兩週內答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11704.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11723.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
委員口頭質詢未及答覆部分：或者要求補充資料者亦請相關單位以書面於兩週內提供若委員與相關單位約定期限則依其所定本日會議到此結束大家辛苦了散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11741.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11758.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11776.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11789.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
主持這麼多天夜報啊,只有國防部夜報的時候沒有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11800.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11816.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
委員會主席 |