| IVOD_ID |
159923 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159923 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-09T09:28:09+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-09T09:41:27+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/984603a5a250cdcedd1fcb38aba248d3a9dd72f8e909e2235ddd900faaa498be672f50a45871b9275ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳昭姿 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:28:09 - 09:41:27 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長對於「勞動部所屬基金違規使用如何追回及究責」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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陳委員早部長早 部長就這個川普的關稅海嘯即將來襲那你目前的掌握哪一些產業的勞工會受到最嚴重的衝擊你手邊有這樣的評估嗎就目前其實因為美方其實在提供相關的資訊其實陸陸續續都還有一些新的資訊我想大家都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.402 |
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所以應該是說目前還沒有具體的沒有應變的那個措施不是當然有我剛才講的是說因為美方確實現在他的相關的做法上面還陸續在提供一些新的資訊但我們目前是有認為確實來自一些傳統產業尤其是製造業出口的製造業可能會是受到影響比較重比方說機械 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.611 |
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汽車零組件包括橡膠、塑膠、石化、水五金等等我們其實重點在關注這些產業相關的勞工希望你的政策能夠讓勞工比較安心但是我要講說現在已經有企業開始裁員停工放無薪假了你知道這件事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.244 |
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93.09 |
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我們其實最近在媒體上面有看到我們收到很多在野黨的立委都收到很多有看到這事情那我們現在把通報的機制給建立起來包括這些資訊的回報的機制給建立起來那媒體上面有目前聽聞的我們也會打電話過去我們也跟他們主動的去了解實際的狀況會如何來掌握這些最快速的掌握這些訊息 |
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93.69 |
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我的目的是告訴你星期一我們也一起到行政院去跟卓院長共商國事啦那因為本黨立場非常清楚我們一定是國家利益高於政黨利益啦面對這個難關大家一起要來度過那如果說為了因應這個關稅的衝擊假設勞動部有任何特別的預算你要提出來那我們覺得只要是這個合理而且預期有效那我們一定支持好嗎我就先告訴部長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
119.454 |
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部長那我們還是要回到今天的你的報告主題啦就業安定基金啦那這個你當然在善後啦你現在在善後當然我相信你會很頭大我不曉得你睡不睡了早不覺啦那當然這個總統講了用了一句不太下當的這個做法至少我們還有音樂不過那個部長你知道現在音樂會不能再用就業安定基金來處理了嗎部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
141.607 |
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154.663 |
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是不是以後就業安定基金不可以用在這個只有我們會把就業安定基金的用途做出更清楚的規範部長那我現在想請教你因為剛剛幾個部首會 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
156.886 |
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181.173 |
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不會算都報告了許前部長的演唱會記錄曝光他的法律依據竟然就是提升勞工福祉那個部分那審計部也揪出前5年救安基金違法大概有7224萬是不符合他們用的是關聯性不高啦那關聯性不高就是不符合法定用途對嗎不符合法定用途嗎關聯性不高不符合嘛我跟委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.077 |
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審計部的報告他的那最後的判定是關聯性不高因於修正收回但是否違法這部分還是需要由司法單位來去做這個你的意思說不符合法定用途就不等於違法你這個邏輯人民可以接受嗎不符合法定的用途就不等於違法這個邏輯大家可以接受嗎那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
208.519 |
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我要說的是說 審計部的判定是和關聯性不高當然他是跟救安基金的法定用途來去做對照 認為關聯性不高但是否是違法使用 是否違法營私是否人謀不章 這樣子的違法這部分當然這是另外一個層次我想要繼續請教你七千多萬被亂花了 只需要修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
236.969 |
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247.299 |
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那你要怎麼究責目前我要看到的是不是修正的部分因為這是確定的部分那你這個究責的部分因為你說這個是歸納科目不當啦那這個很離譜啊我覺得這個玩文字遊戲啊那早期的蔡英文總統的那個專輯啊明明就是那個走私就是說是超買啊那你現在這個東西這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
261.272 |
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270.099 |
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歸納成不當用法這個歸納不當那就是說意思是說如果用就業安定性辦演唱會不行那我們換個名目就行了嗎你的意思就變這樣啊這是歸納的名目不當成為你用的應該是我在臉書上面其實寫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
279.087 |
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304.964 |
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這個我上面的說明是說明什麼叫做修正修正的意思是什麼所以我這句話的意思是如果被判定修正的話過去可能會有哪些種樣態歸納科目不當是其中一種樣態我的整個完整的句子是這樣的敘述的我也有繼續看你講了一句是說你要先行政院爭取編列明年的公務預算來這個歸還就業安定基金這個很離譜 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
306.425 |
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311.731 |
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意思是說勞動部亂花人民的錢納稅錢你現在要叫人民的納稅錢再挖一筆錢來補這個洞這樣對嗎這樣對嗎這個預算能不砍嗎你先亂花了一筆人民錢現在叫人民的納稅錢再來補這個洞這是你的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
326.847 |
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351.717 |
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陳委員我向你說明第一個我們其實必須 勞動部是一個行政部門我們必須要尊重也依照審計部的審計結果以及相關規範來辦理那過去如果有被判定為修正檢列並收回的話編列公務預算來歸電是做法之一被判定為修正檢列 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
353.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
364.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
要追回那編列公務預算規定是做法之一那我是一個行政部門我必須要依照審計的審計結果跟審計的規範來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
388.086 |
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我們還有別的方法部長你現在在說明這個但人民能不能接受我們來談預算法第25條政府不得於預算所定之外動用公款那有違背的支出應該以民法的規定請求返還那我現在要請教你勞動部有沒有對許明春謝怡榮提告 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
389.742 |
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400.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這是預算法跟陳委員說明我們接下來因為現在我知道大家很關心比方說決策者的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
402.428 |
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427.896 |
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你先說你有沒有打算提告大家關心絕對責任目前我們關於追究責任的部分我們會配合檢調跟司法的結果來追究部長你又來了檢調它追查的是一個圖利貪污的刑事責任我現在談的是民事責任根據預算法這個是兩件事請你要先分開根據預算法你可以去打民事官司討回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
429.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.87 |
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你不要什麼事都丟給丟皮球給檢調檢調辦的是刑事的我沒有丟皮球給檢調所以我請問勞動部你有沒有要對許明春謝宜榮提告什麼時候提告我們相關的責任的追究我們會配合目前檢調跟司法都在辦我們會配合檢調跟司法的結果來去做追究 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
449.897 |
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470.205 |
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你就是不想按照預算法來處理民事行政的部分看來你是不會做這個提告你還是要納稅人權來補動那我現在下一題我問你這個警消組工會你在上一屆跟本屆立委的時候 您都有連署這個支持警消組工會的法案我想問你 你現在立場還一樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
473.673 |
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483.501 |
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部長因為你簽署過嘛你的立場還一樣嗎你不要跟我說時空背景不同你最新的一份是去年五月不到一年不到一年沒有時空背景不同的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
485.069 |
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502.32 |
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那個跟陳委員說明目前其實針對這個相關組工會的問題目前我們這是兩院在做討論目前考試院還是目前考試院會是以公務員學會法的方式來去處理團結權 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
504.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
525.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
公會法是但是我說這個議題是兩院在討論目前在行政跟考試院因為公會法是你管的那我可以問你的態度你的態度是什麼就是這個議題是兩院在討論那目前考試院還是希望用協會法來去處理包括警校跟公務員的團結權跟協商權 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
528.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
549.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你擔心罷工權對不對你是擔心罷工權嗎你是擔心當初你連署那我先問你一件事老師可不可以組工會教師可以組工會現在教師是可以組工會的那教師沒有罷工權嘛對不對現在是組工會跟罷工權是可以討論的嘛第一個層次是你要不要讓他組工會然後再來才是說你要有哪些權利嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
550.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
575.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那你的態度是什麼所以我跟陳委員說明在這個議題上面兩院目前的討論是希望用協會法你是勞動部長你一直在跟我說兩院啊你的工會法你在管啊你的態度是但是我是兩院的成員之一啊沒有你就代表勞動部去談啊談這件事啊對但是我的意思是說我這樣講可不可以就是說如果警消不給予罷工權那你同意他們組工會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
577.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
601.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
呃陳委目前確實在兩院在商量這件事情在討論這件事情的時候目前還是以公務員協會法現在都不當勞動部長了就是病院的部長了好啦那我問你齁那個你們家柯總召齁說警消組工會齁會造成那個中共侵台啊你同意嗎你同意嗎齁寫得很清楚喔你同意嗎你就告訴我你同意這個說法嗎呃我尊重柯總召的你尊重他的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
603.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
612.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
他這個抹紅基層這個員工的警消的這個姓抹紅他們你還是打擊工會存在的意義你尊重他的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
614.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
639.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我的意思是說這是柯總召他的認為我問你嘛 他的說法那你同意嗎那我還是回到在兩院在討論這些相關議題的時候我們還是希望能夠盡量的去協助團結權跟協商權罷工是很不得已是最後手段你知道政府要爛到一個程度罷工權才會處理我問你 你知道醫院已經有工會了你知道醫院有工會嗎那你擔心醫院會罷工嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
646.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
665.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個上次我說那個盧媽媽的事情她叫盧媽媽你叫盧媽媽那你就回到家庭去服務就好了我問你說為了性平你好好在那個時候做一個宣傳這個性平那你也不肯你說你們總召做這個你們也不肯現在總召說這個會清台景霄的主公會也會清台 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
666.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
677.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你也沒有態度喔?你怎麼這麼軟趴趴?你什麼都不敢講?你只敢罵我們家國昌喔?你只會罵這個國昌對不對?我不想講他的名字,他在去年審議宣的時候,他說他要保證三道讓國人有感啦!我問大家! |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
689.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
715.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們的總預算被這樣亂刪亂砍你有感的嗎你憤怒嗎我知道已經憤怒到都已經坐不住了對不對人民當然憤怒啊你把這個錢拿去開演唱會拿去裝潢豪華的辦公室人民當然憤怒啊所以這個我覺得部長我再跟你最後講一句話我禮拜一進去行政院的時候因為卓院長說這一次的這是我面對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
717.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
739.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
關稅的海嘯我們有很多事要立法院配合不是只有關稅部分有很多非關稅貿易障礙的部分還有一些法規要鬆綁他希望我們配合我跟他講了一句話我說好你要大家配合那你現在不要搞這個你再搞大罷免這個部分那如果說民間團體我們尊重他立法院我們尊重他但是行政官員你現在要立法院配合啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
739.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
761.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那我可不可以勸你一句話你聽聽看因為我也跟左院長這樣講的可不可以行政官員行政人員不要上台不要去上大罷免的舞台去高談闊論發佈假訊息你可以嗎你可以嗎你做得到嗎我這樣跟左院長講的第一個事情是這個罷免與否跟行政部門的關聯比較不大那你上台啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
763.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
769.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我上面講我其實是復述黃委員的說法因為這個保證三道讓國人有感這是他講的話國難當前我剛剛就跟你講你要拿公務預算去補一個公務人員亂花的錢這個錢不砍怎麼行啊所以我還是要強調關於審計的部分我們必須尊重也依照審計的結果還有相關的規範來去做辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
787.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
795.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
好啦部長謝謝你要記得你是勞動部部長不要動不著跟我說病院病院兩個人一起談你都沒有自己態度這樣行不行部長你自己要記得勞動部長好謝謝 |