| IVOD_ID |
15991 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15991 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-06 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-23-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-06T08:31:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-06T12:31:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:00:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd4f41088fe7fdcd9ed2752fdacda41c863be8d109af184be42a51a4f460fe91385ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-06T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、邀請交通部就「台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡滑坡監控作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【合併詢答】【6月3日及6日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:00 - 12:31:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1722.52 |
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1750.24 |
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好繼續開會現在介紹我們在場委員林佩祥委員介紹我們在場的官員國家運輸安全調查委員會林信得主委謝謝請坐葉明山副主委謝謝張文煥委員李延年委員請坐 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1752.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1777.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
姚承安主任秘書請坐林佩達執行長好請坐航空調查組劉東明組長好謝謝水路調查組蘇水兆組長請坐鐵路調查組吳吉川組長好請坐公路調查組曾仁松組長請坐 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1781.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1807.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
運輸安全組曾永安組長,請坐。運輸工程組莊禮章組長,請坐。人事是黃素蘭組長,請坐。政務是康熙平組長。主席是孫淑信組長,謝謝。運輸是楊一文組長,請坐。我們交通部政務次長陳彥博次長,請坐。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1812.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1839.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
綜合國務司張卓榮司長,請坐。路政是黃韻貴司長,請坐。公路局陳文睿局長,請坐。高速公路局趙新華組長,謝謝,請坐。鐵道局呂新喜副局長,請坐。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1842.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1866.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
臺鐵杜薇董事長請坐臺灣高速鐵路股份演員公司鄭光遠總經理鄭總請坐本日進行國家運輸安全調查委員會業務報告及臺二線70K崩塌及道路邊坡滑坡監控作為專題報告好,我們補充介紹林國誠委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1872.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1897.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好,謝謝好好,現在請運安會林主委報告主席各位委員、各位律師、謝謝大家的早今天會有榮幸列席過委員會向主席及各位委員報告運安會業務作業必須各位委員不吝指教本會主 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1899.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1926.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
主要職場是重大運輸事故的調查．調查範圍涵蓋航空、水路、鐵道及公路．其通過系統性的調查．完整發掘可能的噪音及安全風險．提出感染建議．以防止類似事故再次發生。相關業務重點分數如下．第一,重大運輸事故調查業務．第一,重大運輸事故調查進度．本會自108年8月1日成立．即已經5月31日為止．運輸事故立案調查共282件． |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1928.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1950.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
其中256件已經結案相關調查報告業務發布於本會的官房另外有26件根據調查中我們主要說明如下航空成立迄今立案調查16件已經結案13件上有3件調查中共發布33項安全改善建議水路立案215件已結案204件上有11件調查中共發布 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1954.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1973.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
兩百四十六項安全改善建議鐵道立案調查二十九件結案二十七件上有兩件調查中共發布兩百一十五項安全改善建議公路立案二十二件已經結案十二件上有十件調查中共發布一百四十二項安全改善建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1974.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2000.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
二、近期媒體關注的重大運輸事故．關於終結列車轟落公園站撞擊醫護的事故．那麼這個案子我們的調查報告草案已經完成．在今年的5月3日及20日經過本會委員會初審及複審通過．相關被調查單位將在6月14日至本會陳述意見．並經委員會討論後是否決定是否修正報告內容之後．就會發佈最終的調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2002.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2023.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
關乎二、小客車國一往北大亞路段追撞工程緩撞車的事故．那這個案子在去年已經昨夜發布初步的報告．並在調查期間同時下載類似的追蹤工程緩撞車的EDR的資料．以作為事故的樣態及系統性因素的分析依據． |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2025.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2049.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
預計今年的7月發布事實的資料報告今年年底預計要完成最終的調查報告光湖山、康橋校車在現役快速道路往北的文山隧道有荒霧的事故這個是在今年3月11日發生的那麼這個案子我們預計在今年的9月要發布它的事實資料報告可是同時在 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2050.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2069.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
而上個月的5月21日的在這個事故地點同車道往北約175公尺次又有一部康橋的校車發生大滑的失敗事故那麼這個案子我們把兩個案子變案處理因為這個路段在兩個多月裡面發生兩次的類似事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2070.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2085.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
除了道路主管機關台北市政府新工處已經參與我們這個案的調查會議外我們在5月24日也拜會該處那針對這個鋪面的改善還有它降低行車速率這個議題互相來交換安全的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2087.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2103.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
現在報告業務重點第一持續提升航空水路、鐵道及公路事故的調查能量為提升本會調查能量本會藉由參訪、觀摩、研討會、會議、辦理訓練及專題演講的方式持續建置事故的調查能量請參閱相關資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2105.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2132.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那麼在工程能量方面我們已經建設25小時的徽航記錄器鎖壞的解讀裝備更新實驗室的焊接設備導入三維掃描儀器投入硬具殘骸掃描作業以利完成重要證物的數位保存作業並完成台中、高雄兩個主要港區的三維立體視覺數位建模以及海事事故資料複習系統的擴充有助於未來重大水路事故調查的應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2133.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2145.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
第二、強化調查人員訓練及與國際運輸安全的交流本會派員參與國際運輸調查專業訓練與技術研討會以精進調查人員的專業技術相關資料請參與另外以跨國民航事務調查局以及澳洲運輸安全委員會簽署合作意向書 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2156.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2172.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
然後到美國參加事務調查員材料會議。那麼依據今年10月份會到日本參加鐵道事務調查國際論壇。在今年的8月由本會以加州大學伯克萊分校先進交通技術研究中心合作辦理國際論壇以加強與國際運輸安全組織的交流。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2179.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2207.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
參加國際運輸安全協會的所長聯會本屆的國際運輸安全協會所長聯會在今年5月27日到31日在阿安格雲首都布宜洛斯埃利斯舉行共有14個國家代表實體跟或通路線上的參與本會擔任運輸安全調查與檢警單位關係的議題的主談人以及人工智慧自動化與人際見面議題的與談人以各國政府運輸事務調查機關的所長交流分享 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2207.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2216.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
運輸事故調查經驗與安全資訊提升運輸安全調查之多邊互助合作第四有關運輸安全自願報告系統的監制與運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2217.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2242.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
本會去年共接獲航空、水路、鐵道及公路的自願報告93經篩選國內外具分享價值的案例、編傳並發行8期的運輸安全自願報告系統專刊．今年其5月底為止已經接獲43則報告．並發行4期的專刊．其發揮擦身支持全世界的功能．達成事務運航的效益 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2243.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2265.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第五,有關醫術安全改善建議的最終以列管本會迄今共計發佈1705項醫術安全改善建議完成改善結案者有1555項剩下150項各機關共目前仍在積極改善中第三,有關大院委員關切議題執行部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2266.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2292.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第一有關重大運輸事故範圍的修正進度那麼這個案子我們是朝兩個方向朝調整這個認定標準的方向還有就是擴大範圍所以我們把自用大客車跟新興的硬具一定會把他納進來那目前已經開了好幾次會議包括我們去年的時候也跟去年我也邀請中央跟地方機關來共同研商那後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2294.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2302.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
預告完成之後我們會進行法制周圍然後會依法會同交通部報告行政院合併第二、修正具先進駕駛補助系統以及電動車輛的調查程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2306.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2330.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
因為具有先進駕駛輔助系統也就是所謂A-DAS車輛在國道追撞施工工程仿裝車的事故頻傳那麼國內電動車的數量逐漸增加所以本會已經修正了動作公路事故調查標準作為程序那麼所以這個程序修了完之後我們最後事故通報之後馬上可以派遣人員到事故現場收集資料隨即可以成立專案調查小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2333.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2353.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
四、預期釋放施政的績效．第一,藉由重大運輸事故調查．發掘根源噪音．研提各項運輸安全改善建議．協助各機關完成分項執行計畫．與預防類似事故再發生．有效提升我國的運輸安全第二,藉由強化國際合作交流．汲取各國調查及安全概念． |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2355.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2379.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
制度及技術之優點因應未來稀釋運輸發作重大因素事故調查作業所需面臨的挑戰第三,持續討合國內外調查技術及專業訓練增進事故調查人員之調查技術及工程鑑定呼吸能量以強化安全趨勢與預防性的安全研究技術最後報告結語本會將秉持獨立公正專業的精神辦理重大海空運 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2380.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2380.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2409.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2412.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
交通部長今天又會請假請交通部陳次長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2425.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2451.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士先生今天因邀致貴委員會就台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡滑坡監控作為提出本部處理意見報告首先對於委員關切公路系統的道路安全讓本部有機會向各位委員說明了深感榮幸並表達感謝之意本次主要的報告是有關台二線70K的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2454.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2481.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
70K上的一個大規模的一個崩塌的事件以及災後的處理邊坡滑動的監控管理跟未來的策進作為等相關內容那根據本部的瞭解在對災情的掌握崩塌導致許多車輛被掩蓋跟受困造成一萬兩千立方公尺的一個攤房需要進行相關相應的搶修和災害影響程度的評估至於在邊坡 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2482.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2508.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
邊坡滑動監控管理方面在本報告中特別強調邊坡監控的一個監測的一個重要性以及公路總局已經會實施相關的一個監測及未來的測定作為而且本部的部長也對外宣示將在一個月內責請本部有關公路方面公路局、高工局還有台鐵公司甚至是高鐵能夠進行邊坡的一個總體檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2513.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2535.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
來防範此類的事情再一次的一個發生那以下我們就請本部公務總局陳局長就臺二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡滑坡的監控作為進行詳細的一個報告那敬請各位委員指教謝謝好謝謝陳市長請公務局陳局長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2541.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2565.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士先生那以下請就台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡滑坡監控作為進行報告那事件發生是在6月3日的14點28分在台二線的70K發生攤方雙向阻斷交通那攤方的規模長度54公尺、高度41公尺、寬度14公尺攤方量達一萬兩千立方公尺 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2565.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2588.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那在公路局就立即於現場成立這個前進指揮所那由於現場有大量的巨石而且其中最大規模尺寸達到100噸所以我們到目前已經出動了這個PC300型的破碎機兩台200型破碎機八台傾瀉卡車兩台產裝車三台水車一台還有多位工程人員全力進行搶救那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2589.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2613.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這個在中斷期間也公告了這個汽車跟機車的行駛的替代路線對於民生的運輸尚不至有重大的影響另外客運路線受影響的有9線我們也透過多重管道公告最新的乘車資訊那自災的原因出判我們也會同相關的地質跟大地工程的專家學者初步認為台二線的上邊坡因臨海迎風面受風化的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2614.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2642.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
在它的地質構造是屬於厚層塊狀砂岩跟薄葉岩互層那風化後這個岩體又變得比較鬆軟那而且這個砂岩長期風化容易產生這個結裡面也就是裂縫那使這個水容易滲入那研判是近期這個餘震不斷加上5月底到6月初的封面降雨導致這個坡面它裡面的這個關鍵的岩塊軟化鬆動導致由下往上擴災一路抽灘至坡頂 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2643.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2661.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那在邊坡的滑動監測管理部分目前公路局針對全國的省道山區路段的邊坡我們依據這個環境所在跟設施條件有分為ABC加CD五等級那平時依照養護手冊巡查跟做定期的檢測另外在滑坡的這個邊坡監測部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2663.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2689.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個邊坡的監測儀設置的原則主要為山區路段曾經發生邊坡滑動崩塌呈現或順向坡那我們也進行過相關的整治工程為了確保該山坡這個坡地的這個穩定性而且就是說要評估要做這個設置儀器做長期的監測那我們就是說會來做這個看這個監測成果是不是要再擴大整個監測的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2690.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2706.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
因為本次的台二線的70K的這個邊坡他沒有列入這個中高風險的優先關注邊坡所以沒有設置相關的一個監測儀器那目前公路局在這個邊坡安全的監測儀器種類繁多包括有這個設置傾斜計、地滑計、雨量計、所謂觀測警跟地貓嚇眾計 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2711.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2735.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那各項儀器都有綠定相關的管理值那看這個監測結果再來檢討是不是要這個增加監測點位的密度跟擴大監測的範圍那另外在順向坡的部分因為順向坡容易造成整體坡這個這個邊坡的一個滑動所以我們特別利用這個這個無人機這個UAV做這個順向坡面是否有這個侵蝕裂縫這個破壞的徵兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2736.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2754.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
另外目前就是說經過這個專家學者這個現刊我們公路局在孫強坡的監測儀器也設置了18處那對於就是說邊坡的整體的安全其實公路局已經對於這一個省道的這一個邊坡設置這個地盲那有391處有33000餘隻的地盲那在西級以上的邊坡也有74處9472隻的地盲 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2761.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2778.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這些地毛我們在這個108到113年還特別就是說這個有編列公務預算9億元辦理整個這個地毛的安全檢測來瞭解這個地毛相關的這個拉力還有就是說是不是要做相關的一個防死補強 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2780.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2803.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那在優先關注邊坡我們目前公路局有45處都是運用就是說這一個中央地料所他的地質圖地質災害顯示圖然後做相關的套疊以後依照這個邊坡的危害風險分為5級那其中這個優先關注的邊坡我們在每一次的汛期前還有10月前至少都會辦一次的定期的科技巡檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2804.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2820.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那巡檢項目有五大項可以降低這個人為主觀的一個分級的這個錯誤那公路局我們自己自我檢討雖然有許多的管理措施不過因為這一次的台二線的70K的崩塌位置沒有列入這個高風險的路段不在監測範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2822.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2845.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我們會來檢討這個後續依照這個案例來進行整個相關的檢測的一個機制那未來的測定作為有兩項第一個對於就是說這個台二線的70K的邊坡一定要這個防止它的再次崩塌所以目前大概就是說對於這個上邊坡比較這個容易這個掉落的腐蝨已經做相關的清理那之後還會再做這個研栓研定 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2847.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2871.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
然後這鹽釘然後就還有做這個這個坡面的一個噴泥土辦理後續的一個復建工作那對於就是說這個整體制度面的部分我們會加強邊坡的這個滑動的監測管理因為這一次我們自我檢討就是因為整個災點它的坡面其實這個這個直坯就是說可以從這個空照圖看到這個直坯有做相有相關的覆蓋 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2872.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2894.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那所以不易就是說去判斷這個它的這個邊坡坡體內部它的這個沙葉岩的這一個節理主態也就是說它的裂縫的這一個走向跟這一個傾斜的角度所以我們在這個短期在一個月內也會運用經濟部地質調查跟礦業中心他有發布的這個山崩地質 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2895.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2917.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
三峰帝華地質的敏感區先來套跌台二線這個領海的這個西級邊坡那就是說做如果說這個而且也會做這個無人機UAV的建模特別檢測有發現侵蝕現象我們就把它提升到B級那列為優先關注邊坡就會做這個相關的定期的科技的一個巡檢巡查那另外這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2919.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2941.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
一個月內只是做這個西極邊坡的一個盤查那細部的部分因為這個是大尺寸這個經濟部的這個這個地調中心的相關的這個山崩地滑地質敏感區它的尺寸規模比較大那兩萬分之一的地圖所以我們還要做更細的這個的一個調查了解所以我們在年底前也會委託專業機構運用這些地質圖沿線還要做相關的一個地質的一個勘查 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2946.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2962.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那就這個崩塌的位置還有這個裡面的節理的這個主訴跟位態我們進行調查後比較能夠建立這個更完整的這個北海岸公路的邊坡管理機制那這一次的台二線的70K的邊坡的處理我們公路局會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2963.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2981.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這個精進整個邊坡的滑動監測管理機制另外這一次的搶修工作我們也會積極來進行希望透過各項的措施儘快恢復當地的道路交通保障民眾的安全跟生活便利以上報告建請委員會指教好謝謝陳局長局長6月11號要搶工搶完成搶工完成嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2992.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2997.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
現在進行詢答先宣告以下的事項詢答時間初期委員5加1分鐘,列席委員4加1分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3016.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3032.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
委員發言人登記截止在10點30分截止。各委員如果有提案的話請在10點以前提出來,以便醫事委員會整。我們暫定10點半休息10分鐘。中午原則上不休息。現在請登記第一位的林佩祥委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3044.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3070.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
有請林信得主委主委我記得在4月19號上次我來質詢的時候就有特別提醒到說這個高速公路的邊坡要檢測的議題不知道主委還記不記得4月19號的時候我上次在質詢的時候我特地提到這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3072.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3095.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
其實我看到報告基本上本席是對於這報告給予肯定因為我講完之後你們馬上就開始去作業但是本席還是要在這邊特地再提醒一次因為4月3日發生的大地震不會只單單純純對於說我們今天發生事情的地方有所影響甚至說有很多大地震之後還有很多餘震甚至五感地震都會對於我們地質造成一定程度的破壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3095.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3120.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
所以本席還在這邊這邊還是一樣針對這邊只有矽脂難這個矽脂交流到走山那我剛有問過我們這個慾安委員會的同仁們他們說因為這個矽脂當初國三的大走山這件事情我們是那個大安委員會是在那個慾安委員會在4年前成立的所以沒有法追蹤到但是本席在這邊特地以會議紀錄以正式發言會議紀錄的方式建請 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3121.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3143.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我們運輸安全調查委員會針對國三當初在20當初國三在2010年4月25號那時候發那時候發生的大型走山事件的附近做出一定程度的偵測的偵測並與給高空局一定程度的建言因為這是因為我本期主要主要是兩個原因第一個剛剛已經講過有關地震第二個其實是因為說現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3145.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3169.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
只要早上7點之後每天早上7點之後國一跟國塞都會搭塞車那只要有一點點就算沒有出現任何的人命傷亡傷害但是只要出現一點點的這個一點點道路上的問題的話就會造成絕對的搭塞車那變成說上班上課組會變得非常辛苦所以在這邊建請我們應安會主委特地針對這件事情再提供給高空局這邊足夠的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3173.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3188.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這個是道路主管機關跟地方政府的權責但是我們應該會可以從獨立交通機關角度我們可以協助高中局來看怎麼樣改善他的安全我們可以協助他好就麻煩了好謝謝那再來請我們再來請陳部長請陳市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3199.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3221.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
市長請你簡要的針對今天在基隆市八朵子發生的事件跟後面主要是後面大概在什麼時候剛剛有聽到我們我們召委特地有知道說6月11日會退赴通車可是針對現在最後面怎麼樣什麼時候通車那目前狀況是如何你們怎麼樣做出一定程度的後面的補修機制做出簡單的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3223.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3250.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我跟委員報告一下有關11號要通車的這件事情其實從今天媒體上我們也說明了我們分幾個階段在降蛙那邊坡上的腐蝕也做了一些處理那相關的這個工程人員大概日夜的在做一個清除的工作那我們有樂觀省省的樂觀認為可以在安全的情況下在11號的時候如期的來做相關的通車 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3251.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3274.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
至於說後續喔﹖剛才這個報告裡頭也特別提到﹖或者是專委﹖專委有特別提到﹖其實這個邊坡呢﹖它是一個應該是後層的一個塊狀的岩石﹖跟那個薄的這個頁岩相互交織在那裡的﹖所以那個地方的一個邊坡﹖它質批非常良好的時候﹖從外觀上是看不出它有這個問題的﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3275.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3296.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
但是這兩個這個不管是沙岩或者是液岩它因為風化的一個強度的耐風化的強度不一樣又加上有水的因素在這裡面所以造成了所謂關鍵岩石的一個浸潤然後軟化然後這個岩石後來就崩了下來然後就造成了這樣的一個情形所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3297.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3316.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
針對這樣特性的這樣的一個嚴懲的一個結構所以剛才在這個報告裡頭有特別有說明我們大概分三個部分第一個呢當然是對所有的邊坡西級的邊坡部長已經下達指示了就是要做全面的一個總體檢那是對所有的不管是各個公路鐵路要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3317.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3335.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
至於說這個地方呢,剛才有特別提到因為它有一個山崩地滑的一個潛勢的區域所以公路總局第一個步驟會先去套疊這些區域然後就剛才講到的會有這種斜礁的可能斜礁逆向的邊坡可能會崩塌的 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3336.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3359.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
或是差異．我馬上講完重點．有差異化的一個70的話．他會先做一些由C級提升為B級．那就立即要去做一些改善．那長期而言他會跟地質．地質圖做一些套疊．然後邀請專家學者再做一次前面的檢視．就這個台二線的這一個路段．做相關的一個邊坡的一個管理的經濟以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3361.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3376.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
我認為這邊有一些資料未來我想請部長請交通部來交給我們交通委員會第一個對於潛勢土石由地區進行的地盤改良然後以增加邊坡安全的安全性企劃這我希望說我們交通部可以提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3377.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3404.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
第二個是針對公路周邊易崩塌跟土石流淺市區提出調查報告第三個要提供在2010年4月23日國道走山事件2013年在8月31日必殺漁港巨石掉落事件2022年在國一11月1日國一汐止斷走山事件跟現在最新的2024年6月3日潮進的走山事件我們交通委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3405.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3429.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
本席建請我們交通部在3年之間的3年內的邊坡檢測報告都要提供回來畢竟你們才是專業我們必須要讓民眾安心的話我們是需要專業的專業的專業的報告跟評估的另外有幾點我特地要提就是有關你剛剛講的邊坡巡查跟管理機制本席希望說在特別巡查中這次的B級邊坡應該要增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3432.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3457.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
因為經過4月3日大地震之後我剛剛也跟林主委林信得主委在談經過這次大地震之後其實有很多地方本來我們是不知道本來是相對來講就跟今天我們在看到八斗直面一樣看起來是很好的可是隨時可是裡面的結構其實已經被破壞那我覺得在這個前提之下B級的邊坡應該要增加而且一併納入巡查之中甚至連植被完整的邊坡也要一併加強巡視 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3458.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3484.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
另外一方面來講也為了說要確保我們巡檢人員安全無意的狀況之下一般來講我們的巡檢安全人員都是去肉眼或是人員上去巡查但是現在我會強烈建議說利用AI或科技工具來做輔助甚至無人機來去做徹底進行周邊邊坡的檢視一方面是這樣比人工人眼來的準確之外第二方面也是減少所謂人員在檢查的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3486.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3507.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
第二件事情是我這邊要建請我們交通部我在3月26號的時候有跟台鐵公司有辦過一個會刊就是有關基隆市龍安街96巷23號其實那邊的邊坡也是相當的危險而甚至說上面有民宅在那邊住那民眾其實有疑慮那邊的當土牆其實已經有一定程度的軍列了 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3508.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3533.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
但是這是在這個會刊是在3月26號而4月3號大地震之後是否那邊的這個安全係數已經加強我是不是可以請那個董事長來說說是跟委員報告那個我們在4月3號地震以後我們台鐵公司我們有進行我們所有的邊坡的一個檢測那邊我們會予以加強好 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3535.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3559.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
市長我特地要提為什麼把這個會刊提出來因為這個會刊不會是個案而是通案台鐵跟高鐵旁邊的邊坡檢測都要特別注意因為我們都知道說只要有一點點事情發生台鐵高鐵那不只是說阻礙我們的通勤之外甚至很有可能大量的人命傷亡就是因為像這樣的事情發生所以這邊請市長特別要注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3559.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3576.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
第三點就是我這邊特地提到台二線北濱跟基金公路段這附近其實落實的機率很高因為旁邊以旁邊的地址來講旁邊地址裡面有一個自我計用式西岸中山區湖海路的路線可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3576.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3592.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
湖海路路線在過去10年有4次攤幫當然那個是都市計畫那個是屬於基隆市政府的管轄地區沒有錯可是湖海路跟我們的台二線這邊非常的接近相對來講地質其實應該差不了多少所以湖海路在湖 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3593.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3610.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
在中山區湖海路那邊有4次落石掉下來的話本席不禁擔心說我們台二線的另外一邊也就是在金山萬里附近的基金公路段尤其是假日的時候那邊是時常會塞車的所以在這邊在邊坡的檢測上面建請我們部裡面要特別注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3611.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3638.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
本席在這邊一定要說一定要肯定我們部裡面在這次的急難上面的緊急措施但是我還是不禁要提醒這件事情全國都在看之外而且人命關天這次只有在基隆很慶幸的不幸中的大幸只有兩位我們基隆市民受到受到受到輕傷當然也是只有車子在受到一些受到一些損傷財務也沒有損失太多 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3638.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3660.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
但是畢竟來講像這樣的事情本席比較烏鴉嘴一點可能不會是特例可能慢慢的因為這是大地震跟地質的改變可能會慢慢變成個通例那這一點來講請交通部跟我們運安會特別要注意這件事情盡量然後防範於未來越防範於未來越準備越多越好以上謝謝是我們會加強來精進作為是好謝謝林佩祥委員下一位請林國昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3681.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3707.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
請交通部陳市長陳市長請還有我們公路局陳局長高速公路局趙局長趙局長還有我們台鐵公司杜董事長還有我們高速鐵路局的我們的鄭總經理鄭總 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3710.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3739.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
另外那個林主委你等一下注意聽一下因為這個安全跟你們有關你不需要上來啦不需要上來你就稍微聽一下跟你們業務有關拜託你們要去督導一下好好正式其實我個人的看法當然因為民意代表監督政府這是我們的天職但是如果發生天災啊基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3740.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3763.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
這個也是無法抵抗所以我今天請各位上來也不是在指責的意思但是天災難防這沒有人會怪但是如果人後那這個問題所有政務官就必須要去負責那這件事情台二線這件事情當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3765.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3792.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
不是 這個也是一個天災可是問題出在哪邊問題你們把它內入根本一點危險都沒有所以這個就是我們的監控制度到底有沒有問題你們的巡查到底有沒有問題所以你們只要一不小心一不認真就會造成老百姓生命跟財產的受損 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3794.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3811.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所以我還是要拜託我今天主題就是要來檢討到底你們的監控制度以及你們列入你們的這些邊坡管理的監控制度到底有沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3812.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3834.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
所以市長我也知道你從這個公路系統或什麼這個你對這個也是非常在行所以我要拜託你因為你是政務官你必須還是要去監督這幾個跟人民生命財產有關的這個部分一定不能啊一定不能啊去負累的 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3835.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3851.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
所以我現在要請教我剛才看到報告我們公路局的我們的陳局長我們現在列入監控的地方前台灣省所有公路這麼多我看你的報告只有86位是要監控是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3855.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3872.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
86個有裝儀器在做建設其他都還沒有就是已經裝了認為有危險監控的部分來那個高速公路局來趙局長請問你們現在危險的地區或者會危險的地區你們現在裝置有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3872.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3891.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
跟委員報告我們所有的那個西極邊坡都已經裝測了那多少個我要知道多少我們現在所有的邊那個604處的西極邊坡他裝了3131支就是我們高速公路高速公路是不是國一國三國這個所有的604處604處來那個那個那個台灣那個台鐵多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3900.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3928.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
有跟委員報告齁,我們有38處裝有我們的監測儀器另外還有目前已經在正式就是襲擊的嗎?就是所有的,所有的所有的,就是我們所有的沿線有裝監控的另外還有26處我們監控室落實告警那是另外的,還有26處好,那個馮總來,高速公路 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3930.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3932.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
高鐵,你們現在有多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3933.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3934.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
好!好! |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3964.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3983.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
來 那個陳正智 這個就是問題所以我們台 那個台二線 這個部分滑落欸 你們 你們不管是空拍啊或什麼什麼遺棄去偵測 多數安全喔可是為什麼會發生這個事 就是制度有問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3985.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4004.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
所以我還是要建議我們交通部這裡針對這些人民的安全你們監視是已經發現到喔可是今天台二線發生這個事情還好這都是停車場喔如果是人口密集的東西那一定會出人命 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4005.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4020.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
有幸這次沒有出人命只有小傷還有車損的部分用錢可以解決的都沒有問題生命丟了以後這是人命關天所以陳正智我會不跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4022.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4044.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
這種事情不能怠慢為什麼我要請四大所有的公路跟交通這個單位監控的東西不能負累你不要以為裝上被你們發現裝上的都沒有問題是沒有被你們發現的才是有問題像台二線這個事情就是這樣啊不是嗎所以我要建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4045.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4060.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
部長這裡要特別把它當成真正是一回事人民的生命是可貴的財產還可以還可以可以可以來來這個疑問但是生命是無價的 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4060.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4087.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
所以我要拜託你們四個單位一定要針對這些以我現在所了解過去我們盛巷坡不是有走山的問題嗎那你們現在做了以後欸其實沒有這回事啊那個就是落實但是現在發生這些事情根本你們就是不落實嘛用目視啊不然就用空拍那空拍怎麼會拍出真正裡面的事情所以我要建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4089.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4117.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
新加坡就像前幾天台北市它樹木裡面用木式的每一個樹木沒有問題但是裡面已經病蟲侵蚀要倒了所以現在你在台北市是引進新加坡的新遺跡啊也就是它的紅外線紫外線它一倒下去裡面有沒有空洞人家馬上知道所以我要拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4118.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4134.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
當然因為我對高鐵馮總你們這裡對於監控這個機制我是較為肯定上次我執行的時候我就建議我們杜董事長要比照高鐵的規格去做這些事不要以為你們現在有幾個監控 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4136.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4152.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
最危險的地方就是你們沒有在注意的地方才會發生這個事故所以我要拜託我們城市長在這個部分你們要開一個專案把這種東西向我們公路總局拜託你們的編制人員每一個段 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4156.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4179.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
人員都很多你們要成立一個專責小組去做這些只要下雨只要地震只要颱風你們要去做這些危險評估小組也就是不要增加人員但是你們的人有基本常識去目睹以後有問題趕快回報給總局去做這些危機預防的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4183.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4212.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我們沒有做這些我們沒有做這些所以我在本席啊因為時間到了拜託陳正智這個部分我希望四個單位一定要把它當成是你們的重要一個課程那我也要拜託我們這個林主委這個部分你們要提供你們專家可以預防勝過治療的這些政策提供給他們監督他們把它做好這樣台灣人民在行 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4214.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4236.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
陳做這等等他才會有一個安全好不好正是是我跟委員簡單回應兩點啦第一個是有關不管是颱風也好豪雨也好或特殊事件之後其實本部的相關的局或是公司他們都會有做相關的巡檢而且會滾動檢討他那個分級的等級這是一定會去做的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4236.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4259.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
至於說那個剛才特別提到的監控系統的是不是可以再繼續擴大或更落實這部分我們再來跟相關大家共同來討論我們前幾天大概也有發現像剛才特別提到高工局西級以上的邊坡他其實都裝了我覺得這個可以給各單位來做一些考量那個政治我必須要提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4260.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4281.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
這一次發生的事情是沒有監控的就代表是有問題的該監控的監控這個問題是出在這裡所以我要拜託市長回去跟部長講這要責成這四個單位這跟人民生命財產有關的不能開玩笑把它列入一個檢討重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4284.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4298.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
這個最早要正式你們去監督你們去盯那我們也要拜託林初緯在這個部分也要去提供一個專家的意見這個部分希望我不希望下一次每一個單位又會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4299.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4321.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那我在這裡拜託最後最後30秒我要拜託四個單位你們現在襲擊有危險的這些東西提供給本委員會的委員好不好讓我們做參考你們現在有多少個監控的地方還有評估有危險的地方請四個單位提供給我們好不好可以嗎沒有問題好謝謝好謝謝林國成委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4330.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4348.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
下一位請李坤哲召委發言謝謝陳雪生召委請一下陳彥博次長林信得主委以及陳文瑞局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4353.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4371.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
市長好在5月16號本委員會質詢的時候那我就提及因為0403蘇花公路大清水路段嚴重的崩塌他也是屬於西脊的邊坡那 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4372.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4394.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們看到不到半年內發生了兩次襲擊坡的這樣一個重大的事件其實對於公路的安全必須更提高層級來做處理我請教一下林信得主委我們對於這樣半年內襲擊邊坡兩次的重大邊坡運安會會啟動相關的處理跟調查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4400.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4423.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
這個是屬於環境運輸的部分我們會我們有調查的這些相關的設備我們會支援高空局好那所以我必須要提醒你我們雲南會針對公路系統的啟動調查有三大原則第一個原則就是死亡三人以上或者是死亡受傷十人以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4424.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4440.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
死亡加受傷10人以上另外就是受傷15人以上這是第一個原則第二個原則是對於有載送相關的危險物質發生洩漏或是爆炸這也要啟動相關的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4442.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4468.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
第三就是相關的事件重複的發生或者是對相關的運輸安全有重大影響像對人民的生命財產有嚴重衝擊的這些事件也必須要啟動調查那你認為這樣襲擊邊坡在半年內兩次發生這樣一個大攤方是屬於自然的因素所以不用啟動調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4470.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4491.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
這個如果是屬於系統性我們就會用如果重複發生現在半年內已經發生兩次我是要特別提醒你另外我們看到這一次的6月3日的台二線70公里出了這個崩塌當然它自災的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4492.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4521.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
地震以及相關的這種極端型氣候豪雨的沖刷導致土壤邊坡富含水分那我們也看到它的這個土壤上的直坯的植物其實生長也都算正常沒有崩塌的這樣的一個徵兆那近幾年也沒有發生這種土石崩塌的情況它是屬於無預警的這樣的一個崩塌來次長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4522.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4542.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我先請教你部長說6月11日之前要來搶通目前的進度以及狀況必須在安全無虞的狀況下通車來說明一下是我想委員特別提到部長也去當地勘栽了以後了解狀況以後也做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4542.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4568.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
因為有一萬兩千方要處理所以目前預定的時間就是6月11日來恢復通車那我這幾天我也去看了我覺得相關的作業同仁都在很安全的情況下來進行這個通車應該是審慎樂觀的在6月11日之前應該是審慎能夠通車而且是在安全無虞的狀況這是我的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4569.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4583.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
最重要的監督的原則必須要安全無虞是一定安全無虞的情況下那我們剛才看到我們這些ABCD的這四級的邊坡其實它都有它的一個巡查、監測、檢查相關的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4586.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4613.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
像我們在這些邊坡其實都有定期的巡查也有定期的這樣的一個監測還有相關的就是地毛的一個檢查那其實這些部分我們看到相關的這些邊坡我要提醒次長我們西級加上西家級總共有600多處對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4616.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4639.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
總共有603處公路局的方面我要跟各位說明的是C級有明確的定義C加就是介於B跟C之間就叫C加總共有600多處部長有說在一個月內要進行相關的盤點我們的量能夠嗎?人員夠嗎?在一個月內針對這600多處的C加 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4644.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4671.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
以及西級的這些邊坡能夠做盤點嗎 來說明一下我想這部分我的瞭解應該是沒有問題的那是不是詳情我請公路局說明一下公路局說明一下各位報告因為我們會先由這一個經濟部的地質這個調查還有礦物中心他有一個這個山崩雲也就是說山崩地質地滑的一些敏感區那先做大範圍的一個套疊 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4673.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4699.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那到底以後就是說針對就是說在這一個稀奇邊坡又在這個地質敏感區的這個部分的話會特別的檢測那其他的部分的話有一些部分我們必須要做相關的3D建模因為這個是一個月先做一個初步的一個檢測那之後的話因為它的一個就是說經濟部地料中心的一個尺寸規模比較大有些部分我們必須要做更深入的一個一個調查地質的一個踏桿 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4699.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4709.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那這個部分後續還會有其他的一個時程規劃我們目前的檢測的機制有分成三種你們也清楚屬於定期的檢測、隨機的檢測、特別的檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4715.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4735.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我們其實都有相關的這樣的一個機制並不是說西級的邊坡就沒有做巡查跟監測這是不對的我要提醒你們剛才有委員在質詢你們應該提出說明定期的這樣的一個檢測包括邊坡的巡查他基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4737.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4747.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
A級的話是一個月一次B級的話是一季一次C級的話是一年一次D級的話是三年一次是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4749.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4760.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那是檢測我們原則上巡查的部分是每週巡查每週那特別檢那個一般檢測的話就是像我講的就是監測檢測都有這樣的一個機制我們現在半年內這個西極邊坡已經兩次的這個自災啊造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4769.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4791.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
人民生命財產的一個交通安全的威脅那我們應該去檢討這個邊坡的分級機制那我們邊坡改善的前後應該這個分級要納入考量就是說原本AB級如果它經過改善它也有可能變成C級對不對那這些C級變成C級之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4794.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4818.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我們還是要提高它相關的巡查跟檢測的頻率應該是這樣吧 來說明一下各位報告就是說C級的部分就是說透過這個巡查或檢測它有不穩定的話就會升級了就直接把它升級到B級那B級的話就是說這種像這個優先關注邊坡的話每一季我們還做無人機的一個飛行建模這是升級的部分對 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4819.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4843.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
會就是說巡查或是檢測或者是因為他攀方後他B級經過改善之後他有可能會降為對對對他如果穩定以後我現在講的就是說B級如果降為C級或是C級的話他相關的巡查及檢測還是要高於一般C級的這樣的一個檢測是所以我們這一次的包括這個監測跟這個分級的這個部分我們會一併通案的檢討另外我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4845.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4860.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
將頻繁降雨的地區因為它含水性會更高與頻繁地震之後相關的結構穩定性要加以細分來增加各種情境係數的納入考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4861.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4887.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
還有我們要建立復合性的天災如頻繁地震或連續降雨的這樣的一個機制那即使在每一次地震以及豪雨之後我都會提醒交通部門相關單位必須注意相關的土石崩塌以及邊坡的滑死相關的這些土石流的這樣的一個處理這都是次長要去加以督促 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4888.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4911.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
另外我們的這個整體山體來作為單位的全域管理機制因為我們現在有時候上坡邊坡滑落他也會牽動下坡的這樣的一個也會被沖落的這樣一個狀況這樣必須是以整個山體來作為單位的全域管理機制有沒有問題來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4913.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4931.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我想跟委員報告,這樣剛才委員特別提到的這個就是整個上邊坡一直到坡頂的這樣的一個檢查這一個機制呢,其實在我如果沒記錯在國山走山以後其實在公路法就已經有訂定相關應該要檢查而且要處理的一個機制,所以這沒問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4932.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4942.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
最後的時間我認為我們應該要加速辦理邊坡的防護計畫相關的進度我們現在公路局統計現有的邊坡A級有258處B級有49處C級有22處C級有603處D級有776處 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4952.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4960.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
總計列管達到1708處其中A級的邊坡是有45處列為優先改善的邊坡我要請教一下其餘的213處的A級還有49處的B級到目前好像沒有看到提出相關的改善計畫是不是 來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4981.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5007.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
是各位報告就是說相關的這個監測跟改善計劃如果有需要他如果不穩定的話其實都有都有相關的一個持續的一個改善計劃那只是說這個但目前就是沒有期程也沒有計劃嗎對不對如果是還在災害還沒有修復完成的話其實就都有修復復建計劃像4月3號之後的話包括台八台九線的邊坡的部分的話都有相關的一個復建計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5008.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5028.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
我想在地震頻繁的臺灣在全球極端氣候的這樣的一個肆虐的狀況地震加上豪雨可能是未來常見的這樣的一個大自然的現象那對於公路系統相關的引起是邊坡的安全保障是次長是交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5029.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5056.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
以及局長必須要全力督促來保障民眾交通安全的一個基本的這樣的一個保障這個是要全力以赴的以上是好謝謝我們李昆哲召委昆哲召委是非常資深的交通委員他所提到的一些綜合性的一些災害什麼的我想運安會這邊可以多 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5059.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5059.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
好,下一位請我們陳素月委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5092.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5100.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
謝謝主席請主席邀請呃陳次長還有陳局長陳文瑞局長還有局長齁陳局長呃委員好呃次長早安早呃我們交通部對於呃這個公路旁的這個邊坡的一個管理啊就是有依據他的這個呃穩定性跟不穩定性有分為呃五個等級嘛齁就是A級B級C級 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5121.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5121.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5140.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5161.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
那我們看到這一次就是這個6月3號的我們就是台二線70公里處的這一次的這個邊坡滑落的這個意外事件他是屬於西級所以可能就是會造成國人的一些就是比較疑惑或者是擔憂的地方就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5163.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5186.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
西景應該是屬於穩定性不是那麼就是不是那麼不穩定的一個地方那竟然發生這樣子的一個意外那到底之後我們出門國人駕車出門的時候到底哪一個路段是安全的哪一個路段是比較高風險性的我想這個是國人比較關心擔憂的一個地方那是不是可以請我們次長先說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5187.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5188.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
稍後報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5203.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5232.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
發生在這個西級邊坡上還是有這樣的一個崩塌的情形所以剛才在這個簡報裡頭我們大概也特別提到我們會再去針對我們相關邊坡分級管理尤其是西級的部分是不是還有一些因素我們沒有考慮到的那個我們大概會去把它做這檢討檢討出來再滾進去這個這樣的一個邊坡管理制度然後重新來做一些分級上的一個探討跟分類以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5232.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5255.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
是那我們就是針對C級的全盤的一個通盤檢測預計多久時間可以完成原則上C級邊坡的一個檢查那部長是希望相關的單位能夠在一個月裡頭把它完成是就是照次長剛剛回覆的一個月檢測完成之後就是有些路段有可能也是比較不穩定性有可能就是會提升為A級或B級 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5256.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5280.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
是,我們歷次幾次的總體檢完了以後都有做這樣的一個處理就是會再做一個調整區分那調整之後當然我們還是要關心的就是說那針對於A級、B級這種比較高風險的一個路段我們要怎樣去確保這個安全性那我們知道就是說目前我們有這個高風險優先關注的邊坡目前我們是有45處 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5281.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5301.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那這45處的標準我們是怎樣去評估來選定這個路段的因為我們剛剛那個李昆哲召委也有關注嘛A級有258那我們目前優先關注的只有45處那其他的呢那怎麼處理這個應該是大家關心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5301.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5325.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我跟委員稍微簡單的說明一下原則上這裡大家所看到的ABCD級啊這個我們叫做這個叫定量就是大家認為說這是比較危險的用這種描述性的那剛才特別提到的所以在這個定量分析裡面公路局的這個邊坡管理制度他還引進了所謂的那剛才是定性的分析啦那還引進所謂定量的分析就是意思就是說要針對AB級的邊坡 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5327.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5346.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
他會去打他分數看他的這個掉落的情形還有邊坡的一個狀況等等的他會做一些落實的危害的分析的一個評估打完分數了以後他會分成一二三四五級在這種五級裡頭對於三級以上的他找出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5347.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5361.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
就是大家現在在對外投入來講的就是優先的關注名單所以他關注名單是從A、B級裡頭再去把他篩選出來最嚴重要持續關注他的會再去進一步細分五個等級 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5362.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5387.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
意思就是說兼顧了所謂大家講的定性跟定量的分析當然在這樣的分析的制度裡頭其實是還算是有一定的一個嚴謹度那還是有所謂西級邊坡還是有被意思就是說還是沒有列在這裡面那這也就是我剛才講的後續我們會針對西級邊坡也就是我們邊坡分級管理制度有沒有哪些因素我們是沒有考慮到的我們會再做一些檢討以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5388.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5402.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那就是說針對優先關注的邊坡我們就是會有其他的一些工程的加強或技術性的一個改善就對了對那優先的邊坡剛才講三級他會三級以上所以有三級啊那三級的話剛才就講有巡檢啊或者因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5403.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5406.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
來做一些有關類似像邊坡的這個變異的一個分析啦或數值模型的比對啦那找到說這些危害的因素在哪裡我們應該怎麼樣把它處理掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5426.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5442.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
另外我們也有針對可能應該是比較高危險性的路段有裝設這個落實告警系統是不是那這部分我目前裝了哪些地方那這些地方跟剛剛我們所謂的優先關注的路段是會是同樣的路段嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5443.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5468.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
呃原則上會剛才講優先關注以後呢他會就會做一些呃這個呃科技上的一個巡檢科技巡檢完以後他就會改善那如果這些改善的路段是呃人力或是機械無無法到達的地方我們就會裝設所以這個落實告警系統所以原則上是發了我剛才講的優先關注邊坡一直下來的對是是好那那個落實告警系統啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5470.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5490.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
這個所謂的告警系統當然就是說要提醒可能有落實嘛那這樣子的一個告警系統是對內的還是對外就是一般民眾可以看得到嗎可以看得到的我們有些在這個會在前面會示警告訴大家前方有落實等等的會會前方有落實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5491.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5509.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
他掉下來因為我們落實告警如果已經開始在掉了我們就會提醒就是已經有落實下來讓大家知道是會透過簡訊還是說透過怎樣的東西去告我們原則上前面會有CMS的警示的這個來告訴大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5510.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5529.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
電視看板電視看板對電視看板的那種告示對對對對對對是我想因為這個大家都很關心因為畢竟我們出門在外就是在外面就是開車上路也希望就是說一路都能夠平安所以對這樣子比較有高風險性的路段大家都是會比較擔憂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5535.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5554.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
主席再給我兩分鐘時間我再關心一下有關我們的那個機車考照的部分那我們知道就是說目前我們根據這個統計數字看得出來就是說目前機車事故而死亡的人數啊占這個整體的交通事故死亡人數已經超過六成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5555.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5584.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
所以這個我們也知道機車是我們國人最普遍使用的一個交通工具所以要怎樣讓這個機車的行車安全這個事故能夠降低我想也是大家要努力的一個目標那我們也看到就是有一個數字就是我們這個機車要考照那考照如果是透過駕訓班的一個訓練之後它的一個違規率是會大幅的一個下降我想這對整個提升機車騎士的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5585.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5612.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
行車安全也是有很大的一個幫助那這樣子的就是考照我們目前公路局的駕訓部分有補助就是我們國人去考照的時候透過駕訓班考照是可以有補助的那這個補助的一個政策好像是到今年11月30號到期那我想請問一下這個這麼好的一個政策我們是不是可以再跟他延續我的了解應該會繼續是不是請局長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5615.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5641.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
好各位報告就是說這個機車駕訓的補助在今年有實施那未來年度我們也有別人預算這樣子是所以就是可以再延長就對了是是是是好那因為我們也看到就是最近應該是昨天嘛我們也公佈了新的一個機車考試的一個題目一個類型就是會加入的那個感知的一個先感知影片感知影片的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5641.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5643.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好謝謝陳素月委員稍微請 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5671.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5700.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
台南市林俊憲委員市長好謝謝主席本席邀請我們交通部陳市長陳市長請還有工總工總陳文瑞局長好委員好市長好市長我們今天要來關心啊就基隆那個公路邊坡塌下來的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5701.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5728.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
剛剛我們陸委員來關鍵這個事情都要求你要做個總體檢那其實公總應該在去年就完成了總體檢我們在一年前C級以上的邊坡就總體檢完了也就是說總體檢做過了滿一年那在總體檢的報告裡面有沒有提出會有可能有崩塌的邊坡 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5730.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5755.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
沒有啦我的了解總體檢…你的總體檢裡面喔是大概全部都及格啦沒有總體檢完了以後我們有我的了解有其…有些邊坡我們做了一些升級的一個處理如果我想我們可以把委員…你可以送給委員參考啦當然你不可能說完全預知啦但是有危險的你要加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5757.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5780.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
不過今年落實的次數都非常多這就是一個徵兆今年到現在才不到半年已經落實通報件數有19件去年2023年才4件前年11件也就是說今年到5月落實的事件就比前兩年加起來要多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5781.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5804.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那其中今年就是我們真正關心的基隆這個崩塌的事件他是最可怕的就是毫無症狀那你們檢查也及格了那也符合那個門檻就是說不需要特別巡查你知道你有一個特別巡查的門檻你知道嗎?社長你知道吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5805.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5832.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
陳局長,你有出場說話嗎?有。就是說,你們就3小時累積雨量要120啦。對對。然後前兩天累積雨量要350。是。這個都沒有。沒有。這個沒有為什麼塌下來?這種狀況最危險。所以我認為啦,你的門檻要調整。為什麼?因為基隆啊,基隆在最近就有41次的大雨透爆。 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5834.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5862.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
然後我們台灣又發生了大地震花蓮地震是不是這樣子所以這是為什麼造成地震以後光餘震就一千多次了然後基隆大雨特報最近兩個月內從4月到6月發布了41次的大雨特報但是你在對照你的必須特別巡查的那個門檻通通不需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5863.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5891.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
如果有發生事故這個地方,幹什麼呢?是不是這樣?陳局長幹什麼呢?所以我認為啦,你這個特別審查門檻應該要檢討你如果說有地震或者是有連續大雨幾天以內那達到多少次的大雨特報就是說你要有你所謂的檢討,要檢討這一次發生狀況前後的一些因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5893.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5903.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
啊不然你這個邊坡如果他今天沒有塌下來在你公總的紀錄裡面這個是安全的啊也不用特別去檢查他就沒事啊那不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5904.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5923.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我以為有關這個門檻是不是要調整我想我們會請公務局來做一些檢討但是本次事件除了這個門檻這些其實它有一大的因素是地質上的我們沒有嚴格來講我們相關的裡頭沒有把它考慮進去的那這部分是我們後續要檢討的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5924.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5949.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
如果你沒有把他考慮進去也是一樣啊你就覺得那個不用特別去查啊所以以最近的天候狀況也不需要啊是不是這樣當然工種的資源應該要再加強你看高鐵高鐵的那個預警山崩落石高鐵管的邊坡389處其中大概有危險的他幾乎都有裝落石警告系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5950.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5975.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
大家有地震偵測啦邊坡滑動偵測啦風速偵測啦洪水偵測、豪雨偵測甚至闖入的警告偵測啦通通有啦那因為工種你管的邊坡就有1700多個地方啦那你還要再分ABC級你那個硬體設備啊我記得交通部也編了很多錢給你啦那你應該要趕快不足的地方應該要再趕快來補強啦是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5978.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5988.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我想我們會請公務局來檢討至少要達到接近高鐵的標準吧你看他有裝各種那種偵測系統還是高鐵比較有錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5994.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6006.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
不是高鐵靠近啦我覺得高鐵它這個政策系統當然當然就是主要全部都是預防嘛是是而且它本身也是因為高鐵速度快嘛只有烏坤齊開的高鐵會有兩秒鐘煞車啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6010.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6038.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
所以高鐵啊他兩三百公里在開他一定需要這些系統那確實高鐵營運以來就沒有發生邊坡塌下來造成的事故等等對不對我跟委員 是啊我這個我們會來看怎麼樣來做但是高鐵也好或是高工具其他是某種程度是人工變化我認為你那個特別審查的標準要再檢討因為你頂上市啊是是你像某個地區它連續四十幾次的大雨特暴 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6039.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6051.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
你總會覺得緊張吧?或者是說它地震以後那是不是要在特別警示的地方再去看?好,我來請教一下運安會啦,運安會主委主委好我現在比較擔心的是運安會你現在是國家級的機構啦國家運輸安全委員會我擔心你的人才流失的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6069.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6094.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我們的航空組吼,航空調查組吼,調查官吼,裡面有一位調查官吼,他是有執照的機師吼,結果被新的航空給挖去了吼,為什麼?薪水開了三倍,三倍薪水,那個人我也照他吼,對不對?你就留不住這種人才吼,然後我們一位水路的調查官吼, |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6096.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6123.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
這位調查官具有船長的資格他也被挖獎了去擔任那個飲水人那薪水也很高建出港的那種飲水人所以他也跑掉了我們現在的調查官我看還有很多缺額還有缺8個人那航空調查官現在缺了3個航空調查官編制10個那你至少要有一位開過飛機吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6125.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6154.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那你現在剩下7個,你們有飛行經驗的嗎?我們現在有飛行經驗的還有3個你們有嗎?有3個,我記得還有3個那你要怎麼樣留住人才?像這樣的那種狀況的話,你缺額你補得起來嗎?我很擔心啦,因為你最近6年就離職10個啦今年就離職3個啦,通通都是被挖角通通都是被挖角 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6155.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6184.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
所以我們運安會啊藉著你的位階現在是定位國家級的一個單位那為什麼吸引不到人才可能是福利啊薪資等等以外我舉個例子給你參考啦因為我時間有限像澳洲的運安會啊他從學校啊大學跟研究所啊他就跟學術界來配合他就去配合未來他需要的調查官 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6187.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6197.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
這點可以給你當參考要不然你永遠留不住人才因為我們訂的裡面的人力有些要求的標準都很高你要有機師執照你要會開飛機 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6200.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6221.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
或者說你水路調查你要有船長的執照這兩類啊有機師執照和船長執照在調查官裡面是薪水最高的但再怎麼高都不會比不上你民間嘛 對不對那你是不是很容易流失那你怎麼辦啊你現在缺了八個人我看你最近六年每一年都有人離開還是你這樣業務會受影響嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6227.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6256.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
目前是OK啦 那就不用補啦我們現在有人在參訪學校有來參訪我們去宣導的時候我們都會告訴他們說這個地方需要人才那麼事實上人才的缺乏現在不普遍性的航空公司也缺人我們這邊也缺人而且跟國內少子化也有一點關係所以現在我們這個是多管齊下在做那剛剛有人報告譬如說我們航空組的調查官我們的組成分子除了Captain就機師以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6257.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6258.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
好,謝謝林俊憲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6289.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6307.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
待會等徐富奎委員發言完畢休息10分鐘現在請黃建豪委員發言好,謝謝主席,我們先請運輸安全調查委員林主委林主委請 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6316.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6343.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
主委好主委這個你有來自台中關心一件事情去年5月的時候台中的發生捷運事故那目前已經超過一年了那4月22號今年4月22號的時候運輸安會來備詢的時候提到說這個5月底的話終結事故的調查報告會出爐那現在已經6月我想了解一下說因為為什麼還沒看到這個最終調查報告因為這涉及到說台中市政府提到如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6344.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6367.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
預案會報告沒有出來之前他的行政處分或相關調查這個結果他沒有辦法去處理他還是要依據我們預案會的這個結果他才能去後續的責任歸屬去釐清甚至賠償等等的所以我想問說連沒什麼用的監察院都在4月提出了終結事故調查報告那我想專業的這個預案會什麼時候才會有報告出爐 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6368.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6389.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我們最晚最晚6月底一定會出來因為委員會已經加開一次了那現在是在等這個被調查單位的陳述意見來那我們6月14日如果確定他們陳述意見是是可以被接納或者是委員會裡面同意的話我們6月底以前一定會發布被調查單位的陳述意見是台中市政府嗎很多單位還有誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6389.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6409.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
還有捷運局．還有．還有四人羽球公司等等都有很多單位所以他們是6月什麼時候會把這個陳蘇伊健送進我們議員會6月14日以前就會陳蘇伊健會進來這是最後的因為委員會已經開過兩次最後一次會做最後的一個6月14日送進議員會那什麼時候會有這個修正報告最後的結論出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6418.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6442.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
因為我想我還是要跟主委報告因為這份這個議員會的調查報告會影響到後續的不管是行政處分也好後續的賠償也好所以我們才會覺得說已經過了一年喔很多人都忘記了但是因為其實這個我想不管是家屬也好還是市政府台中內部也好其實這個問題一直延續到現在還沒有辦法有一個明確答案所以大家比較急啦所以我想知道這個6月底前確定會有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6443.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6467.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
一定會有好主委謝謝謝謝主委接下來一樣討論到這個邊坡管理的問題我想一樣在同樣在交通委員會因為今年我想地震多這個下雨也多所以說是今年的這種邊坡事故特別多我想今年5月16的時候交通委員會我們才召開針對公路系統道路跟橋樑安全改善辦理情形的專題報告那當初市長也有在場還是請市長一起來好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6470.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6492.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我想這個5月16才開完這所謂的針對邊坡的改善作為那不到一個月又再次發生了基隆山崩的意外那我們希望說這個到底全台灣的C級邊坡的狀況當初有要求要去盤點那預計7月也就是一個月後要來公佈那現在6月就發生這個事情所以想了解一下到底現在交通部盤點的狀況如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6495.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6522.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那排列的過程裡面有沒有包含了包含這一次這個基隆這個事件的這個這個邊坡我想那個事件發生以後部長對外說明就是要在一個月內要把做西級的邊坡總體檢那至於說公路總局的部分他在這個邊坡的這個體檢裡面也一定會包含這樣的一個邊坡而且他會依照這次邊坡的特性局長在這個檢這個報 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6524.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6549.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
書面報告裡頭已經有說過了他會依照地調所的相關的一個徒資再去套疊相關的公路局的相關的邊坡來加強這樣的邊坡的一個體檢市長那像這一次基隆的這個這個邊坡有在你們的目前的範圍裡面嗎在我們的西齊邊坡裡面是有在裡面嗎是所以本來就知道他可能會有潛在的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6551.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6571.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
他是屬於我們列管的邊坡啦是列管的邊坡這個列管邊坡裡面還有一個問題就是我們包含說我們高中的地球科學就知道了這個是因為我這個高中那時候有這個921的問題啊所以林肯大峻是因為發生在順向坡那到底像全台灣這種順向坡逆向坡公路旁邊的順向坡你們有沒有做一次的完整的盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6572.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6596.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我想跟委員報告一下在這個應該是國三走三的時候當時就是全面的就順向坡做一個總停歇而且也做了相關的因應的一個處理如果要加裝地貓地貓檢測等等的這個在不管是公路也好或高速公路上甚至包含台鐵高鐵大概對於順向坡都有做一些處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6597.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6613.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那這一次這個比較特別的是是他一些逆向協調的一個走勢所以這部分我們會在這一次裡頭也會納為這個就是總體檢的一個對象好 次長謝謝那我們再看下一頁其實我們要問一個數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6614.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6637.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我想這個目前公務局提供了相關的公路邊坡的這個問題大概有全台灣有1700多處這個有被列管了這麼多那當初這個新部長上來之後要求一個月內要檢測完那到底第一個問題是說邊坡的分級你們要怎麼分的那第二個是被劃設為C級邊坡他是依靠直批跟外觀來判定有危險嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6637.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6644.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
他用什麼方式來檢測是靠科技還是靠人力就是到底這個你檢測的標準跟定義的標準是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6648.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6668.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
報告一下我剛才有稍微講過他有定性的一個描述跟定量的一個評分來區分這個所謂的這個ABCD級的邊坡甚至還剛才大家有討論到所謂的關注的一個邊坡是用這樣的方式所以他是科學化的而不是說今天數量 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6669.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6694.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
數量這麼多那你剛剛提到的不管是用科技的方式你剛剛去定去測的方式我有沒有辦法在一個月內把這1700多處都測完我們原則上是就在這裡的C級邊坡603處來做一些總體檢做一些檢查那依照以往總體檢的一個結果大概就會做一些原則上會做一些升級啦就是說也會發現到一些問題然後把這個C級往B級的邊坡來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6697.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6722.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
另外一個問題就是民眾也擔心一件事情就是因為過去這是過去訂出來的標準那這今年當然今年特別好像地震比較多一點那再加上這一次基隆崩塌地點的旁邊兩公里之前也發生過類似的事11年前也發生過這個山崩所以在定義的時候還有在這個列管的方向上面會不會因為地震改變了我們的地形地勢之後會有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6723.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6747.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我想這個地震也好或是豪雨也好或是颱風也好這種比較特殊的這個天候的影響或是氣象的影響都會改變我們這個邊坡的一個分級我們都會回饋回來做一些調整會所以這個數據到時候再調整嗎會會調整會會就是這7月份的報告裡面它的數字就不會跟現在一樣了會會一定會會做一些調整好謝謝市長謝謝主委好謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6751.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6772.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
好,謝謝黃健豪委員下一位請徐富奎委員發言徐富奎委員發言之後休息10分鐘謝謝主席,有請交通部陳次長、公路局陳局長陳次長、公路局陳局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6779.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6805.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
委員好市長早安好我想本席在0403大地震過後就有提醒當時我們的王前部長我們要全面的巡檢全台的一個變波不用只詢這個花蓮的那最近因為好大雨那包含南投、嘉義還有最近的基隆都發生穩定的變波有攤方的意外那我們當然不能夠完全否認跟地震有關係所以請教市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6805.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6819.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
究竟我們在所謂這個天候因素之下,包含強震、好雨過後的一個邊坡巡檢的SOP,我們到底是怎麼來進行?請說明一下。我想各個單位,比如交通部各個單位, |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6820.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6846.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
他都會有剛才大家一再提到的邊坡分級的一個管理那在邊坡分級的管理分級完了以後然後他會遇到剛才委員特別提到的降雨的情形地震的情形颱風來的情形然後他會去增加即便是同一個等級裡面他會增加他的巡檢的一個次數或者是一個巡檢的一個方法都會在這裡頭有特別的一個規定是他是一個蠻複雜的一個metric的一個表是 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6847.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6859.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
市長,那我們整個這樣巡檢完全台的邊坡預計要花多久的時間?呃,原則上我們現在是針對這個西級以上的邊坡我們希望能夠在一個月裡頭把它做一個總體檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6861.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6886.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那在做分類的一個重新調整對,西級邊坡做完了以後呢他自然而然就會分級會有一些調整而且原則上是調整就是應該是增加這個很重要因為這一次我們發現基隆灘方的路段也是被評估一個穩定的一個路段而且並沒有設置所謂一個監測的一個系統那但是我們有裝設一個防護防那針對這個裝設監測系統跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6889.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6911.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
防護網的這個作為我們是怎麼樣做來做評估?可以這樣說明一下嗎?原則上這個有關這個鹽酸或掛網噴漿這種這種大概是邊坡上人力可及而且是相關的這個可以做處理的他會是這種方式來做邊坡的一個保護跟防護 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6912.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6938.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
那如果說是人力無法集的或是機械無法處理的他才會有剛才特別提到落實告警的這樣的一個系統是另外本期這邊還是要反映一件事情就是我們最近有霧台我們屏東霧台鄉的鄉親反映說他們有看到我們台二四線32K就是我們所謂的谷川大橋那個附近一個監測系統一次被落實砸到那目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6939.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6940.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
這個我請公路總局說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6956.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6973.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
預警系統基本上就因為如果說落實就是說它的來源還有就是說邊坡能夠整治的部分其實我們就是先把這個落實的來源跟邊坡整治把它做好那如果說它的來源太高或者是有一些落實其實是沒辦法判斷它的一個來源的話我們就會做落實告警系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6973.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6996.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
像這一次的這個4月3日地震之後我們的落實告警系統還會再增加兩座那委員所提到的這一處的話我會去再做一個評估那如果說是他的落實的來源是我們沒辦法去預期的如果來源就是說哪些的地方可以去處理的話我們一定是優先去把他的這個落實來源處理掉不行我們就會加做這個那個落實告警系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6997.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7017.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
本席知道我們局長對於屏東的地形相當的瞭解那尤其是我們針對整個邊坡的一個整治我們也花了很多的心力但是這一點我們還是要提醒一下這個我們的那個整個監控系統的部分瞭解瞭解去看一下對對對如果原來的系統已經不work了我們來做看怎麼樣來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7018.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7040.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
另外本席還要再提醒一下因為我們屏東縣我們的山區很遼闊那以往我們有設置一個民隧道那我們發現這個民隧道發揮了很大的一個作用尤其遇到大規模的一個土石崩落的時候那針對屏東縣的部分交通部這邊是不是有在盤點其他設置民隧道的部分能夠來減少土石滑落的一個危害性 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7041.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7069.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
對,這也是我們山坡道路管理上一個很重要的假設是可以用這個民隧道的方式來做處理我們就會來增設這個民隧道那委員這裡也有提到鋼構的這個民隧道這也是我們近期大量在採用的本起來是要求我們交通部要趕快盡快盤點然後盡快的設置並這個天候的因素隨時發生什麼變化都不曉得我們要加快這個工程的一個進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7070.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7091.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
是是這個我們會來加速來處理另外我再請一下運輸安全調查委員主委我想最近大家也在關心我們這個美國這個波音的這個安全性的疑慮那我們運輸安全調查有沒有掌握相關的一個資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7093.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7120.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我們有在注意但是目前為止是屬於目的市主管機關 美商局有跟我們在聯繫他也有收集一些資料這個我們還是要提醒一下委員會我們不能只有在台灣等待這個別人做的調查報告我們也應該要掌握相關的一個進度畢竟這個現在很多國人都會出國但也對於所謂的飛機飛安的一個安全的考量也相當的重視我們是不是可以加快這個時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7122.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7130.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
掌握這個進度一下我請那個航空組組長來因為他是機師出身他比較有青睞 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7133.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7159.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
跟委員報告您提的議題就是我們有沒有做調查實際上我們有跟民航局在聯繫因為這個飛機在國內的法規裡面是試航的所以我們會高度的關心那另外呢最近對於報災的一些關於777有一些所謂的進電釋放的問題我們也持續的關心那我們也跟航空公司大概有聯繫目前他們做了訂件以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7161.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7174.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
這個問題並沒有產生特別的非案疑慮以上報告對,但是還是請我們要掌握一下相關的訊息畢竟這個是國人很重視的一個議題是好,謝謝好,謝謝委員好,謝謝許富奎委員的發言休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7197.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7212.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7224.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7247.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7254.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7266.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
二、邀請交通部就 «台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡滑坡監控作為»進行專題報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7295.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7298.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
委員會主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7301.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7307.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
二、邀請交通部就 «台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡滑坡監控作為»進行專題報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7341.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7356.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7365.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7369.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
二、邀請交通部就 «台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡滑坡監控作為»進行專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7378.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7400.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7415.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7429.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7437.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7453.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7459.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7481.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
二、邀請交通部就:「台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡滑坡監控作為：一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7489.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7489.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
議員提供提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7508.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7509.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
委員會主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7537.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7559.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7561.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7582.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7583.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7585.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7605.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7630.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7632.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7654.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7654.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7684.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7684.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7706.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7707.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7730.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
二、邀請交通部就:「台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡滑坡監控作為。進行專題報告：二、邀請交通部就:「台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡監控作為。進行專題報告：二、邀請交通部就:「台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡監控作為。進行專題報告：二、邀請交通部就:「台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡監控作為。進行專題報告：二、邀請交通部就:「台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡監控作為。進行專題報告：二、邀請交通部就:「台二線70K |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7731.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7754.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7754.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7755.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
委員會主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7774.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7804.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7804.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7806.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
委員會主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7826.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7834.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
二、邀請交通部就:「台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡滑坡監控作為．並備質詢．並備質詢．三、邀請交通部就:「台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡滑坡監控作為． |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7851.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7854.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7881.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7885.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7922.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7923.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
謝謝主席請交通部陳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7948.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7975.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
市長好今天謝謝主席排了基隆公路邊坡的走山類似像這樣的一個事情我想對於國人而言每一個人都希望能夠快快樂樂出門平平安安回家我想這個是每一個人的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7976.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8004.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
當然我相信有一些事情我們政府能夠做的我們就是盡量預防但有一些事情如果它是意外那它就是意外但是我們希望把意外能夠以配合公務機關預算的投入能夠隨著科技的進步加上交通部更積極勇於面對這些相關可能我們把意外把它降到最低 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8005.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8033.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
這個不可能意外叫做零但意外降到最低我想就是國人的期待也是國會在監督交通部裡面非常重要的任務所以我今天就來跟市長探討一下這個我們有關這個邊坡定性這個部裡面有分級我看了一下我們定性分級分了A、B、C、D四個級 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8034.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8054.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那四個級大概都有定義比如說A級表示這個是最危險的兩年內有災害紀錄且尚未完成復建或明顯不穩定徵兆之邊坡然後一直到D級就是五年內未有災害紀錄且沒有明顯不穩定的徵兆之邊坡所以我們有做了一個處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8056.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8073.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那我以這一個案子我們來看一下交通部對於這個邊坡定性分級我們所做的一些時間表的我們把它整理一下108年的10月我們定義它叫做C級 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8074.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8101.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
到了111年的10月叫D級那換言之108年到111年中間我不知道是因為依規定不用查還是說他都是C級因為這個是就我能找到的資料111年11月交通委員會做了一個臨時提案這個要總體檢但是該段並沒有被納入沒有被納入那112年 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8104.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8131.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
他是第幾總體檢報告發布他是第幾換言之我認為你們可能是根據因為該段未納入所以可能這個第幾是根據111年的10月所做的分類到了112年6月也就是這個5月到6月就是總體檢報告一個月後我們這個地方從第幾也就是最安全等級一下子跳到A級 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8132.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8155.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
就變成它是最危險等級然後呢同一年的10月也就是6月到10月這短短的4個月的時間它又變成C級那有可能是因為工程我猜啦可能有可能是一個在興建中一個工程已經完成所以它又變成了C級那當然6月就發生了這個邊坡攤限的這個情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8159.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8179.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
那我想請問次長就是說我幫你做這個時間序的分類一直在說明交通部對於我們定性分類完之後的ABCD我們到底是他從A變B他的上下移動就是他的分級的變動他依據什麼準則 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8183.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8212.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我跟委員報告委員剛才在前面的那一章裡面當然有描述各種狀況這叫做定性的一個分析但是在這個我們另外還有一個更細緻的一個分類裡頭即便是ABCD級以後他還是會針對這個雨量的天候的氣象的問題雨量、颱風、地震等等的或坍塌的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8213.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8229.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
或有自災等等他會去調整他的一個等級所以在這裡頭你就可以看得到112年他為什麼會變成6月的時候他升級了就是因為那時候呢在我的了解應該是4月多在那個地方有一個小攤房的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8229.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8230.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我想請教這個是一個個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8254.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8261.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我想要請教的問題在於說交通部這個所謂的定性分級啊他是多久檢查多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8262.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8292.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
公告一次也就是說你公告一定是有經過一個體檢或者經過一個什麼事件所以你才會去更動這個公告嗎我跟委員報告有幾個面向剛才我講的說那種天候影響那是立即平常他會有巡檢巡查然後巡查以後然後他也會有定期的檢查那如果檢測完以後發現他是有一些不安全的徵兆他就會做一些調整所以呢所以他是定期 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8292.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8305.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
定期巡查還是不定期巡查?他是定期我剛才講分兩塊啦就是天災那個叫做特別的臨時的特別的檢查那是不定期的那定期的就是有巡檢就像我講一個人看要 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8307.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8328.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8329.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8355.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我的意思就是說我光這個分級裡面我就沒有辦法很明白的告訴大家第一個這個是檢查基本上如果沒有特別事情發生定期一次多久定期一次所以叫你說你定期檢查一結束就像這個人的體檢報告每個每一年你都做一次體檢那你體檢的時間假設都是11月所以你公告的時間這個人健不健康你可能是12月公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8356.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8384.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
所以民眾只要知道我今年我會經過的路段比如說我上班會經過路段我要出去旅遊我在山裡面可能有邊坡那我可以在交通部網站裡面快速去查得這個去年的檢查報告是怎麼樣所以換言之我的意思是說交通部對於定期檢查時間因為你是定期嘛換言之你是一個月內完成所有公路段的體檢然後體檢完之後隔一個月你就公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8386.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8411.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
這個讓大家一目了然說欸這件事情他是經過交通部每一年他都有去那第二個那可能是不定期比如說我不知道什麼時候會豪雨嘛我也不知道什麼時候會地震可能豪雨地震之後那我們可能會不定期的去檢查所以也有可能路段從這個D變成A你要隨時注意喔因為在地震跟豪雨過後我可能會隨時有機動性的變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8414.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8431.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
這樣的查核清楚一目了然清清楚楚明明白白市長這樣可不可以做得到我想我跟委員報告一下現在所有的邊坡它都有一個排面排面上會去告訴大家它現在這個等級是什麼等級 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8432.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8450.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那其實我覺得公務局應該會對每一個邊坡或每一個路段他公告出來的他都有他一個檢測或巡檢的一個類似像紀錄都會在那裡頭我覺得我們可以看公務局說不定有了沒有的話可以把這樣的東西建立起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8451.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8476.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
在那樣的一個牌面上其實只要有一個QR CODE民眾掃一下就可以看到清楚的履歷他做一些什麼時候檢查什麼時候做一些改變請問他去哪裡找到這個牌子這個牌子在現在所有的邊坡上都看得到我的瞭解甚至有可能一個邊坡是兩公里我不就要去那個邊坡巡查看那台牌子在哪裡應該是你經過都會看到我的意思是說這是我們都講到AI |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8481.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8500.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
我們都講到AI啦AI叫你說喔是因為我說這個路端安全嘛那AI直接要告訴我說欸老闆現在你走過這公路局說這是第一很安全的我都還沒有講AI我只是說可不可以讓大家很因為你都已經做了嘛我要強調的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8502.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8528.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我們政府有在做事情我們就要告訴大家有一個制度立法院委員要監督才會清楚清清楚楚啊所以是不是意外它其實在於說我們有沒有按照SOP做如果公務同仁法令的規定就是這樣子我們大家都按照SOP做做完之後不幸的它又發生了坍塌這樣叫做意外 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8529.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8547.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
那如果你不照SOP做啊這個叫做人禍因為你就不按照這個既有的規矩做事情啊所以我才會藉著這個事情我沒有責怪你們的意思啦因為我看了這個報告說要責怪你們說實在話我也不知道責怪什麼但是我要檢討的是這個SOP的流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8548.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8575.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
讓他清清楚楚讓每一個公路段的工程知道他幾月幾號該做這個事情做好之後我也依規定我能做好我就公告你想知道你也可以很清楚的知道所以你都已經做了你就不怕不用怕嘛不一定要到現場那我就開車你想在一個人性我開車去旅遊我開去基隆看到邊坡我要先找到我等一下要過的時候不知道安裝沒有我還要去找先找到牌子然後開始掃QR CODE |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8577.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8604.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
掃完之後,這個是低,沒有問題,慢慢開。掃到,欸,喔,開到香了,因為這整會議案不可能會坍塌。這不合人性嘛,這不符合邏輯嘛。所以我才會建議次長,建議交通部,我們按照SOP來做,做完,我就讓大家知道說,我們都有做,每一年都有做。那豪雨過後,地震過後,我們有特別的這個處理,我們就按照這樣處理。次長你覺得我這樣的建議可不可以做得到? |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8604.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8620.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
我想委員的建議首先要說明的就是說同仁應該是各公務段的同仁應該都是有按照我剛才講的那個SOP的程序我沒有說他們沒有按照啦我只是建議說因為你都定期公告定期那個就大家都清楚嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8621.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8639.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
然後接下來我想我們會跟公務局同仁來討論一下如何讓定期檢測各種檢測完的結果讓他透明的公開來除非你有其他顧慮比如說這是不能讓有國安問題不可以讓共匪知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8640.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8665.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那你當然不公告嘛那其他的我剛才就講說我們相關的ABCD等級我們都有公告在道路的沿線就代表說對這種公告我們是很希望公民公開透明因為我覺得這樣子清清楚楚我們做事情清清楚楚這樣同仁也沒有壓力我都有照規矩做萬一有什麼意外發生大家不會批評因為我都照規矩做就是這個就是意外 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8667.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8680.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
啊不然吼,立法院又要檢討是不是有人禍啊是不是這樣子好,好,沒問題沒問題,是好,謝謝我們蔡其昌副院長現在我們請何欣淳委員執行呃,謝謝林委員我們是不是先請交通部次長好,陳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8697.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8725.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
市長因為我剛剛聽蔡其昌委員在質詢我突然想到最近最夯的就是AI嘛那台灣是AI大國而且連AI揮打的這個黃仁勳都說世界上呢最重要最關鍵的AI的國家就是台灣那我們的這個產業鏈也都非常的完整但是呢我們好像運用在這個交通運輸系統的 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8727.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8740.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
目前看起來反而是不多剛剛有提到我從你給我的報告裡面事實上我們分級所謂的定性分級這個東西是在山區道路 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8742.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8764.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
你們自己在裡面有承認這個我們未來中長期目標115年底會建立更完整的北海岸公路的邊坡管理跟監測制度原來的這個公務局所管的省道的這個邊坡那大部分都應該是99%吧因為你們就界定是在山區道路這是你們報告裡面的第4頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8765.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8773.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
所以也就是說全國不是每一個省公路的邊坡都在你們的納管範圍裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8776.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8798.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
委員報告下沒有啦那個是所有的只要公路總局所轄管的都有納入邊坡管理裡頭也就是剛剛有講的那個分析對然後那個報告裡頭是特別指台二線的一段沿海或者是東北角的附近有這樣的地質提醒會做 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8802.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8809.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
剛剛很多委員都有提到你們自己的報告裡面說這是自然邊坡非人工邊坡所以也沒有納入中高風險的優先關注邊坡所以也沒有設置相關的監測儀器 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8817.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8844.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
是嗎?所以你在報告的最後才說我們要來加強嗎?我們要來滾動檢討嗎?對不對?是,我們會就那一段來按照書面報告來做。但是也會擴展到...其實很多我們今天對於這個東西是在於是說我們的這個分級的一個管理跟監測制度第一個到底有沒有與時俱進第二個你說的滾動式檢討又是如何的滾動式檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8847.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8869.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
這個都是其實大家最關心的因為大家不希望有另外一個意外產生還有剛剛講的能不能公開透明運用AI的這個道路這個其實我覺得可以跟數位發展部或是其他的部會跨部會合作因為大家希望是公開透明或網路 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8870.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8870.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8885.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8904.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我想委員剛才特別提到就是說AI如何運用在這個交通運輸的領域這一部分其實我們在各個系統大概都有都有在在運用那委員剛才特別提到的可是你們的運用的程度運用到什麼程度啊你們現在大部分的運用是在於你們自己公務單位可能是我們工業人呃公務人員或者專業人員他們手上可能跨系統的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8912.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8933.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
呃...銜接啊或者是運用也許OK但是在對從人民的角度來看我對整個大眾運輸系統也好公路運輸系統也好各項的交通運輸系統我人民對於政府給我們的公開透明的資訊的運用嚴重不足啊對不對次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8934.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8951.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
這個部分我想我們來看怎麼樣讓它再更加的有嚴謹這是一個很大的議題但是我只是提醒次長說如果我們是AI大國那我們公部門應該要運用AI這樣子的一個結合應該要更 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8953.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8972.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
應該怎麼講更能夠科技化數位化能夠去結合嘛對不對是我想委員的意見我們會看後續怎麼來做後續可不可以給我一個報告啦我還是希望能夠知道啦包括我們有運燃所啊運燃所裡面有很多是所謂的專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8973.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8993.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
科技人才啊那如何又熟悉交通運輸又熟悉這個數位化科技化的這樣子的一個專業那能夠融合在一起做應用應用很重要從人民的觀點來看我們的很多的交通運輸的安全的一些領域裡面的運用很重要不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8994.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9014.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
是我想委員這部分我們沒有問題其實我們今天有高工局在其實高工局的1968就是一個很典型的這個AI的一個御用那是高工局啊那我們其他的交通御數安全那工種的他其實他講邊坡分級管理上他其實也是利用過去以往很多的一次的這個噴塌的數據啊或者是氣象的 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9015.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9015.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
市長請回林主委來 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9048.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9054.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
台中捷運5月10日發生的事故調查報告5月底要完成現在進度呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9056.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9058.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
6月3日及6日二天發言委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9081.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9083.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我希望可以趕快出來趕快提供你們的一個專業的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9100.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9128.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
專業的意見給我們不管是交通部也好給勞動部也好給台中市政府也好我們希望看到你們最終的這個調查報告然後你們的專業的這個安全的一個建議我們希望一項一項的來要求各相關單位來調整改進改善可不可以好不好你二月底喔我就等你的報告好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝我們何欣淳委員現在請喜智傑委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9137.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9141.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
謝謝主席我們請運安會運安會林主委主委好主委好主委那個運安會現在形象你覺得有提升嗎應該有啊應該有 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9162.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9189.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
當然前一陣子風風雨雨嘛是那人民也在看說到底原來會做什麼事讓人民肯定嘛所以我就說我們應該是有一些需要主動出擊的讓人民知道我們到底做了什麼你可以看到我們的那個太空計畫現在原來會有延攬NASA的退休人才有幾位 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9191.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9206.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
太空人才部分我們現在本來要跟協同組爭取原額他沒有給,沒有給我們就想辦法在目前的航空組裡面調配人力約聘的有幾位 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9210.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9235.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
目前只有兩位在支援但是我們確實覺得是不夠因為組織法要修正通過之後才會配合這個人力所以現在已經有兩位嘛對不對是從航空組裡面調配支援那兩位現在在太空領域上你們有什麼進度這個我是不是挺航空組的組長因為他在籌備不好意思你也不太清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9237.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9248.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
跟委員報告剛剛您指示的我們現在有兩位曾經參加過美國一些實際太空運作的諮詢委員有兩位現在已經諮詢委員到我們雲南會嘛對不對對他來領導我們在因為這是一個全球科學會 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9254.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9275.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
現在他來主要做什麼事他給我們一些諮詢所以我們在我們未來的太空調查方面在四個領域裡面比如說發射場站、太空載具跟衛星載具等等什麼時候來的他是在2022年已經來快兩年了吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9279.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9299.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那組織法你們調整了沒有?組織法目前我們已經成大約了那設備你們買了沒有?目前我們在盤點國內產官學的一些設備避免資源重置所以兩年有什麼實際上我們覺得運安會有做事讓我們感受得到的? |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9300.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9326.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
跟委員報告我們現在目前就是針對人力方面特別是在人力方面因為這是一個新興的領域我們目前在籌劃人力所以在籌劃人力嘛那已經來兩年了總要有一些事情讓人民看得到說這些人才來這邊做了什麼事啊是那基本上跟委員報告沒關係細節就不用論太多那個主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9326.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9344.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
所以我要要求的就是說總是要有一些呈現的部分讓人民看得到嘛啊不然你來到底做什麼大家都不知道啊你自己也說不出具體的東西那等於說領了不少錢啊結果成果沒有表現出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9345.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9367.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
沒有啦,有成果啦,這是太空,太空事故這方面目前是因為他沒有事故上還沒顯現出來是確實是應該要來籌備沒有錯啦對啊所以你都籌備兩年你總是要有一些具體的進度嘛阿進度沒有看到具體的進度當然有我在這邊做研究研究兩年沒有具體的進度那就看不出來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9368.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9389.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
我們會把書面資料提供給委員報告好那其實我之前跟主委要求就是說你類似有一些相關的活動事實上雲南會除了發生事故之外調查事故之外那其他的時間是不是有機會來做一些科普教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9390.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9415.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
上次我也有指示我們有計畫說那現在有什麼具體的行動嗎我們準備年底說如果交通部有在高雄市地區有辦一些交通安全展﹖不只是高雄我想全國都是可以考量你可以看到112年我跟主委問的時候主委說那個會跟交通部相關辦理一起辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9416.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9443.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
然後113年我又問那你們就說那個會同交通部回復就是配合交通部本來是主動變成被動那你可以看到我們的那個鐵路節6月15號6月7號開始鐵路節慶祝活動那我一直要求就是向普悠瑪向太魯閣這個你們可不可以做一下配合鐵路節的慶祝活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9444.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9472.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
你總是有一些成果有一些要求將來有一些怎麼改善那怎麼樣避免將來事故再發生那這些東西是不是你們可以配合把它表現出來讓民眾可以了解可以可以這個我們可以做沒問題6月15恐怕你們已經來不及了啦現在再規劃都來不及了但是我們下半年還有很多活動可以規劃沒有問題沒有問題那可以6月15可以那我可以看得到成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9472.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9501.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
6月15日我請那個質詢不要回答不要隨便回答你可以就可以不可以就說不可以來不及就說來不及你現在跟我說你6月15可以我還有點主委提醒你喔問號啦主委提醒你6月15號喔我們希望你講6月15號我可以先做一些海報啦相關的一些資料那是真正事實的具體東西我們再想辦法所以主委我就說你不要隨便敷衍我我要的是有一些具體的東西是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9501.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9526.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我再舉個例子齁那個我們高雄的大型的活動像2023十月食品展2024三月智慧城市展2024世界人民旅遊高峰會他們也在我們展覽館做一個展覽那你今年年底運安會年會要移師高雄你可不可以有一些表現好我們來規劃我們來規劃沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9530.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9551.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那個主委你看前一張我都有寫日期什麼時候問你啊112年11月2號113年4月19號那今天是那個113年6月6號那年會是年底才辦那你不要敷衍我說到時候只用一張海報說我有宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9552.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9580.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
好不好?你可以看到你看我附上的這些照片智慧城市展跟那個原住民旅遊高峰會其實人家都辦得還有聲有色那你今天就是說除了辦年會之外你其實你本來年會可能規劃到那邊只是就開一開會就結束了吧那你既然來了嘛是不是把它擴大展覽辦理一下讓我們看得到議員會到底做什麼事 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9581.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9584.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
好我們謝謝喜智捷委員現在請游浩委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9624.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9628.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
謝謝謝謝會議主席那先請運安會主委林主委好林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9634.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9652.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
委員好主委好主委就簡單請教您就叫您在520就職大家整個部位上調整之前那時候曾經有跟您提到就是那時候有提到運安會的許多業務跟相關的研究報告的這個人力人力是不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9653.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9671.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那時候在那個改組以前那時候有跟您建議就是說那其實你也知道許多的研究人員他們需要更多的一些不管是薪資上面的一個加急或者是人力上面的需求才能夠加速目前國內所有有關於運安的報告的進度啊那你還記得這件事嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9674.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9694.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
人力的部分就剛剛前面林信委所詢問的這個那你那時候有提到說會跟行政院來提報要增加人力需求那我想請教一下那現在那個都改組了有提報了嗎還沒有提報因為大家預計什麼時候要提報因為你的回答大家同仁在等啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9696.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9724.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
我們一個月之內來檢討看整個人力上怎麼來填飽對啊那個最主要期待的是運輸安全調查委員會能夠實際上發揮功能像是國外許多運輸安全調查委員會他們我相信在許多的報告這個有時候不要等到兩年一年那能夠的話就是加速能夠讓社會大眾能夠清楚知道進度好不好那這個月一個月內看目前來講預計怎麼樣來爭取能力源額的情況跟交通委員會大家來做個回覆好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9725.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9725.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
陳事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9746.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9770.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
委員好市長好那延續剛才許多的委員都有在關心那當然我們知道這是天災啦那天災的話但是我們也期待的就是不管是公路局或者是包括整體交通部在這個許多的一個監測邊坡的部分那都能夠發揮更強大的功能那其實記得2010年那時候也曾經一個山崩 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9771.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9786.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
還在隧道那邊還也奪走了四車五命的一個悲劇那我們再回頭來講這次看到這個也是無預警的一個坍方坍塌那想要直接就到次長就是您對於交通的業務是非常熟悉 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9786.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9801.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
那目前在這個定量分級的部分有分A、B、C、C加還有D級的部分總共列管的1700處那目前在今天這一次發生的這個我們前幾天發生這個邊坡基隆的這一件那有是在裡面的1700處之一嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9804.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9811.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
有,有在我們1008處之內是列為C級的邊坡C級嗎?那C級的話那時候有辦法預警到會隨時有發生這種突發狀況嗎?C級的邊坡就是它是相對穩定的一個邊坡他是在順風坡嗎?順向坡嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9823.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9837.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
他在這個地方是一個逆向坡上逆向坡嘛逆向坡那當初的話有沒有相關的一些監測的這個部分不管是搖管探測還是科技的巡檢在這個邊坡優先關注邊坡裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9839.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9857.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
他是屬於優先關注邊坡裡面的其中之一嗎?他不是。他不是優先關注的邊坡裡面。因為他最主要他實批非常良好。所以在以往的巡檢裡頭大概看不到他有自災的一個跡象。 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9857.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9865.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
那在109年到112年省道改善計畫優先關注邊坡的科技巡檢執行經費1.7億元113年續編4千萬辦理檢測那強化這個46處移住經費20億那所以這46處也沒有涵蓋在這個邊坡 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9874.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9901.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
沒有那個是屬於我的了解應該是屬於優先關注的邊坡對那所以這個沒有在優先關注的那本席要就叫那像這樣子無預警發生的這種邊坡的這種山崩那怎麼樣能夠去強化那這個監測因為今天連您剛才也提到了這叫做植被都算是良好的邊坡但是也會發生這種無預警的那這樣子的話全台灣還有多少除包括在南投縣有沒有這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9902.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9928.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
沒有辦法說看起來好像是質疑不錯但實際上也會突然攤下來我想我跟委員報告原則上現在的邊坡管理為什麼會分ABCD等級就是其實他是想要降低所謂肇事的一個風險所以才會有這樣的一個等級的劃分那列在C等級裡頭但是相對於A、B來講是安全很多而且他經過一定程度的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9929.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9952.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
分析以後才會到C這個等級那至於說C等級裡頭還發生了這樣的一個致災的原因我在前面幾次的報告也都有特別提到我們是不是有其他的一些地質的因素裡頭沒考慮這個我們會來考慮那另外呢剛才也有委員特別提到就是說監測的系統是不是應該來這裡看怎麼樣來布設這個我們也會在後續裡去做一些檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9955.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9971.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
因為時間有限就是說希望說在這個檢測的部分能夠看用更嚴謹的方式能夠讓大家能夠心安因為這個部分如果說是C級它不是AB級那其實它相對大家應該感到安心的地方卻無意中的坍塌 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9972.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9998.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
所以我是認為本席是認為應該要通盤的來去做這個檢討因為今天是發生在基隆我也怕我的選區南投有沒有這種風險那其他各縣市都有可能有這種風險那再來就是剛才有提到他的目前的看牌他檢測那個是什麼級的看牌是立在相關的一個就是道路的旁邊那這個網路上面查不查得到哪一段是大概是多少的一個檢測的級別 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10000.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10018.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那我是建議就是 這個回答就是一看到分手就表示說是沒有在網路上面公佈啦 這個我們來研究吧 把它做網路上的公開揭示 讓大家可以去上網查到家裡附近的或是上班途中經過的這個路段 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10019.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10037.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那是不是屬於什麼級別那大家其實我相信因為這次的事件大家很多人都非常的關心平常行經的路上是不是有這種風險那可以的話讓大家上網也查得到我在想說這樣子也可以有利於大家行車的時候實時注意是是這個我們會來辦理好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝遊浩委員現在請廖宣祥委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10064.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10071.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
好,謝謝主席,那麻煩邀請這個我們交通部陳次長以及我們公路局陳局長請陳次長還有陳局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10077.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10096.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
好 謝謝兩位因為這個台二線嘛 這個70K的地方就在我的選區旁邊也非常接近啦那我想邊坡的防護是非常專業的領域啦我想我們公務單位一定都是非常努力在防範相關事故的發生所以專業的東西我今天沒有要提太多 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10097.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10119.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
首先當然是針對後續搶救的部分我想先確認一下因為我過去在地方政府擔任議員的時候雖然說我們知道說我們公共運輸的許多土方都是載到台北港去做天海照路碼對不對但是我過去在當議員的時候常常會接到地方政府又反映說其實台北港的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10120.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10121.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
請他們說明一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10142.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10168.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
這個部分我們確實這次攤方的土方也是運到台北港那跟台北港這邊我們也協調好了都協調好了嗎?最後去簽約沒有問題嗎?好那就是我想請教就是後續因為這個案子相對來說在搶救或者是之後要再加強防護相對安全因為它的邊坡是算是國有的它是那個旁邊那個海洋科學館的嘛對不對那其實不管是我們相關的道路高速公路 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10169.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10192.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
或是公路或是相關鐵路都會有許多的邊坡那會遇到很多的情況就是我們的邊坡他的土地其實不是國家的或需要在做相關的防護或監測的時候他可能會遇到一些問題我想確認一下這樣的情形普遍不普遍那我們遇到這樣的情形的時候就譬如說我們現在有一段公路旁邊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10193.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10198.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
私有的邊坡不是國有的那我們當他發現有危險的情況下我們可以做什麼樣子的處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10203.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10227.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我簡單說明一下再請那個說明原則上剛才特別提到如果在我們的邊坡的防治的範圍裡面以前都是希望上下邊坡而且邊坡能夠到坡頂去看一下看有沒有相關的一個人為的開發的行為來影響這個邊坡的安全這個在國道走山國山走山以後在我們公路法裡頭大概有修改相關的一個規定要求這個當事人 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10229.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10249.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
要允許我們進去做相關的一個防治的作為我想這個是有但是整體的沿線是不是還有一些私人的土地私人的邊坡那我想私人邊坡從某種程度他也是一個防止這個水保的義務人對他是義務人對他也應該要做相對應的處理對但是原則上他不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10250.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10254.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
一般就是說上邊坡的部分的話確實有些會涉及到其他政府部門的還會跨到就是說可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10266.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10268.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
有可能我們授權我們可以去看可以去觀察 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10293.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10319.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
那立即的時候我們有去處理的一個權利但是比如說像現在這個台二線70K它是一個突然因為它是一個可能原本還是可能直批還是還蠻正常的一個我們原則上不認為它會坍塌的一個地方但是它就是坍塌了那對於這樣子的東西照目前的法令假設它是私人土地的情況下我們現況好像是沒有辦法針對它去做一些邊坡防霧的工程嘛是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10321.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10344.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
目前這塊是那個海科館的這個路權的一個對這個個案是海科館我知道所以當我說這個個案相對單純但是我們全台我其實我不只要針對我們公路局啦而是針對所有鐵路高速公路公路甚至是我們地方政府的一些山路其實大家都會遇到這個問題邊坡公家單位的好獎那如果是私人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10345.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10364.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那我要去怎麼去做防護 我們可以依照我們的程序把它納進我們交通用地或者是道路用地的範圍內去把它做一個取得或是補償或是說怎樣的方式 因為以後這樣的現象一定會持續的發生嘛 私人土地的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10366.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10388.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我想這一部分就我請公務總局去研議一下剛才有講到那個水保義務人他其實本身他就有他的義務了這個不是對他有義務但是他不會去因為東他其實說真的發生事件的時候有相關的一個規定他義務人沒有做相關的水速度保持置身這個相關的一個危害我想這個在水保法有 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10389.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10404.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
對所以我請他們再去研究一下因為發生事故的時候說真的就是我們國家出來扛啦說真的發生事情的時候我們國家沒有辦法去指責但是國家也不能說你怎麼沒有水準保持住好我們人民一定是克責我們公家單位嘛那我現在只是想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10405.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10430.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
既然這樣子今天就要討論這個事情的時候我們應該要整理性的來考慮私人邊坡這件事情我們是不是應該要爭取更多的我們公路機關有更多的一個權利或者是怎樣賦予私人如果說他沒有做好水路保持義務的時候他有沒有更多的一個課則然後才能系統性的來處理全國這個道路邊坡的一個系統性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10431.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10460.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我想跟委員分開兩個啦一個是當然是在我們道路如果是在我們館養的道路的沿線上有因私人他在這個邊坡防治要作為不作為的這部分我想我們尋檢到了可以來通知他改善那另外改善的時候他不作為那其實又是另外一個問題了那就是剛才講水保法相關的規定看怎麼樣來要求他來做那在這部分呢我想如果像現行的法令還有所不足我們跟經濟部再來研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10460.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10483.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
我只是提醒說我們交通單位那後續就是針對我講的情況可能是如果說現在在法令方面賦予的權限不足或是法令可能有需要調整的地方那基於我們全國用戶人的一個安全那我們必須要整整思考私人邊坡這件事情怎麼樣去克服我們公安機關目前沒有辦法去強制去做維護的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10485.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10486.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
好,謝謝我們廖先祥委員現在我們請魯明哲委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10522.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10549.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
謝謝主席,有請我們交通部陳次長跟公路總局的陳局長陳局長,來公路局陳局長委員好說真的,這個兩位都是從公路總局到公路局這個也是我們前局長、現任局長你們對於這個案子應該都非常熟,尤其公路總局邊坡的一個分類我看是從之前的時代一路到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10550.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10567.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我先請教一下那一天6月4日在基隆草津公園入口處這樣的一個崩塌或者走山的一個過程我看第二天我們李部長李孟雲部長就很積極我看到好像是陳局長陪他去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10569.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10593.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
他那天對媒體講的第一段話我是有點嚇到是誰給他這些資料的他這樣子說這次基隆發生崩塌的地點邊坡外觀表面正常直坯生長情況也良好再來他說了過去一無發生崩塌的現象陳局長這是你跟部長說的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10595.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10619.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
還是他自己打破夢到的?就是那個在沒有大規模的一個就有零星落石這個部分的話所以在112年的時候就是說他曾經有零星落石我們有提升邊坡的等級然後修復之後就是說又降為西級所以表面看起來職務很好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10622.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10623.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
因為我重複看了一下現場民眾提供的圖片 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10634.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10653.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
哇 右邊這是112年9月去年9月這次還沒有大崩塌之前也就是說我們部長在形容的右邊這個水泥你們整個大面積整修完的這個結果然後正面積多大啊邊坡噴凝土的一個掛網啊這麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10655.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10682.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
然後部長當然他去的時候是已經崩下來了可是你這樣子跟當地的民眾說奇怪這麼多年來這個植物都生長得很好也看不出來任何的問題我覺得有點莫名其妙過去沒有崩塌這也莫名其妙當然不管是小規模落實民眾反應你們這邊早就圍四月就開始把它圍起來了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10682.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10706.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
而且如果沒有問題你們會做這麼大的面積的工程嗎所以陳局長還是次長這個不能給部長喔部長過去選水利的我們很多人是擔心他到底交通的一個專業夠不夠但後面我們覺得其實這是一個團隊團隊做得起來就OK但是你團隊若不說實話坦白講你說這莫名其妙嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10707.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10730.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
所以過去沒有崩塌你們都補到這樣的去年9月都補到這麼多了你們也花了不少錢嘛我們也肯定你有問題的時候你們有去補嘛所以這個照片出來第一個你們當時有去修補有去預防嘛可是在部長的第一時間講這個我又覺得很奇怪你們自己想想看他到底哪裡拿到錯誤訊息第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10731.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10759.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
你們分級有制度但是其實對一般邏輯上面大家不解的是什麼你們因為都是A、B、C、D按理說他的狀況是順順的上去或順順的下來但是有時候天威難測啦大自然有時候他是D看起來很安全的一個就下來所以你從安全的直接跳到A級我覺得這是沒辦法預測的 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10760.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10785.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
可是如果你要從A級馬上再跳回來CD級我就覺得很奇怪你知道嗎你這樣子去年4月4月份這是4月份的相片看起來好像實在還不錯但是那時候4月份事實上你們還是第一期就最安全的完全無狀況但到了6月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10786.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10809.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
你們開始準備修補了你們就直接跳成A級我覺得這合理嘛因為出事了嘛原本安定的穩定的這個他現在變不安定了嘛我覺得這可以接受可是當你去修補之後修補這一塊之後你馬上也沒有把它列在B級直接跳到C級次長講一下是什麼道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10811.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10829.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
我跟委員報告一下首先這個也是稍微回應一下就是說部長到現場的時候剛才陳局長他在特別講到因為以往是有林信的像這種邊坡的滑動或落石那真的大面積的一個崩塌是沒有所以他大概是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10830.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10853.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
大面積的修補是有嗎?等一下修補我再來講,就是說這樣的他大概想表達是這樣的一個沒有,我就問你A級變C級A級變C級因為這有落石有一些滑落所以依照我們的分級的等級裡頭因為就有災害事件所以我們就把它升級為A級然後來關注它來做一些處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10854.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10856.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
那為什麼不變成B級 我的問題就這樣了嘛 A級最危險了嘛 休一休 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10878.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10888.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
你剛剛已經回答委員囉通常我們修好之後我們會觀察一段時間合理合理觀察一段時間我告訴你這工程9月21日完工112年9月21日報竣工 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10893.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10908.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
你們什麼時候把它變成C級的10月份牛頭對不了馬尾這是莫名其妙你知道嗎你剛剛回答我也覺得啊那第二個你們所謂B級的災害的定義兩年內曾經發生災害 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10912.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10935.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
然後C級是五年內曾有災害他明明就符合說才剛修完我觀察個一年到兩年如果都沒有問題他就符合你B級的定義我這樣講的意思說希望齁你們未來像這樣的有危險的一個地方你明明做修補了A級他應該先降到B級按照你們的規定觀察兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10936.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10956.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
他曾經有落實嘛你被修補了但觀察兩年父親沒有在狀況才要調而不是觀察不到一個月9月21號報竣工然後10月份就把他調到C級我覺得你們可不可以回去檢討一下這種調的方式可以嗎我想委員的意見我們則請公務局再去檢討一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10957.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10957.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
您主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10989.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11011.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這個國家運輸安全調查中心說真的啊你心中是到底想不想做啊因為之前我們洪現在這個洪孟楷委員之前有問過你啦你的意思就是說其實很多跟大學合作啦研究中心合作啊也可以取代類似的功能現在到底是不是這樣啦因為我跟你講喔我們從上屆開始跟你之前的主委為這個事情討論辯論預算為什麼要怎麼編 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11016.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11042.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
講得真的是讓我們太感動了非要不行不然這國家這個運安可能會毀掉就現在怎麼輕輕鬆鬆的好像都沒有事情啊現在到底做不做那現在行政院當時跟你叫暫停的原因是說你原本的規劃沒有把電動車納入我也覺得一定要納入因為這是未來的趨勢那另外一個太空太空的一個檢驗我的天啊也要納入那現在納入情況如何可以做到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11044.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11062.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我們是這樣子啦,我們那棟大樓裡面有消防署,他有三個層樓,那麼他在107年的時候他要搬遷,他談出來的空間,我們有做規劃,剛好可以容納我們要做醫術研究中心的一些設備,可以慢慢進來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11063.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11074.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
剛好,太空也可以容納進去吧?應該可以應該可以因為我們如果要到宜蘭去做太空運動訓練你們三層樓你現在他678是不是三層樓對總面積多少?樓地板面積多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11077.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11078.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
五點七二一的是設備那這個設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11103.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11114.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
有什麼變化嗎?這個設備是這樣子我們當時問題要檢查電動車那設備是要增加又要太空你設備不用增加嗎?你們現在到底有沒有規劃設備經費是5.7億是多還是少夠不夠? |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11119.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11135.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
當時的規劃的設備是建築式的。那麼原來在宜蘭的那個工程中心,當時那個space說要做那個運具的長海、展覽等等。那第一個原因是因為當地的 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11136.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11140.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
所以你現在殘骸要放在哪裡?你不要擴大問題喔?所以殘骸未來要搭電梯上去到678樓嗎?你在說什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11158.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11175.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
就是那個空地放殘骸民眾有意見那整棟大樓你說這些殘骸是你要用678樓取代這個功能好啦我就時間到了我要拜託你這個國家運安工程是不是要新建一個大樓還是你要用什麼樣的線路的樓層去 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11176.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11197.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
取代我希望你要有詳細的規劃跟計劃我們希望就算你不要A案你變B案我下次問你的時候B案要有哪些設備要多少經費你要完全知道你不能告訴我我只是不要這個不要那個我要什麼可不可以下次你們有一個對於六七八樓運用的完整的計劃另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11198.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11214.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
進不去大樓的你們要選擇什麼場子比如說大的殘骸你要放哪裡你不可能坐電梯上去嘛還用吊車吊上去當地民眾會不會會被那個complain呢最後拜託你們要精確的規劃因為上次這個規劃你們用掉了多少萬現在不做了你們用掉了多少錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11219.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11235.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
大概一百來萬做規劃後來就就因為要等交往你們109年的總預算的一個稅數報告是匡列800以執行836萬喔對不對然後有些是租金那實際實際用在規劃設計預先的到底是多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11240.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11268.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
大概...董委員告訴我大概400萬啦一百萬變四百萬因為...因為這個就是...啊你好啦這樣好不好你給交通委員一個報告啦我...我是不是會給你一個書面報告第二個齁你要很清楚的先期規劃第二個先期取得行政院的支持啦你不要現在告訴我們678三層樓消防署他的什麼空軍救總他離開了就是你們的萬一到最後落了半天又不是你們的整個規劃真的... |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11269.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11292.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
真的真的很離譜啦好不好我覺得你要行政院先同意謝謝是是謝謝好謝謝我們魯明哲委員現在請邱若驊委員執行謝謝主席請陳次長公主陳局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11297.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11299.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
交通部我們陳次長陳局長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11305.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11330.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
部長好 局長好首先我們同樣的先來看到基隆超級公園這週一發生的山崩那李部長也要求公路局然後還有鐵道局的單位一個月內都要完成盤點全國C級的邊坡那包含國道鐵道然後還有高鐵台鐵都需要全面來做檢視那我這邊要請教局長在4月16號的時候交通委員會要求公路局重新盤點危險路段還有布 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11331.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11356.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
還有不穩定的邊坡並提出改善那局長也說不穩定的邊坡會增加預計7月公佈那經過這件事之後7月會如期公佈嗎因為這個邊坡的分期的話我們是滾動式檢討那就是在這一個災害發生之後就是我們在做復建工程那復建工程之後的話都都會做相關的一個分期檢討所以上次4月16那時候質詢的時候是說這個像 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11358.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11378.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
臺八線臺九線的一些邊坡的話我們也會都做相關的一個分級的提升的部分那這一次的部分我想因為一樣就是這個一個月內的話我們把西級邊坡做一個通盤的檢視之後那需要提升為B級的部分我想我們也會來做那4月16號至今的盤點的建樹大約是有多少處 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11379.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11403.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
4月16號那個時候其實是主要是因為是這個4月3號地震之後那發生的主要的邊坡的受影響的部分都是在這個台九蘇花公路跟台八的中環公路所以那邊的話就是說這個台九的話跟台八都有十幾處的一個邊坡我們正在做這個相關復建那所以在做這個整個7月份的時候也會一併做檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11405.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11433.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那其實在交通委員會這個會期已經不少委員對於鐵路公路還有國道邊坡的風險管理還有監測還有討論監測的範圍邊坡落石預警都要求要加強管理了那還有偵測預警系統那難道等到災害才能改善嗎那很遺憾是因為這週一發生這起事件那才提出了經濟和調整的管理計畫那我們的盤點方式有什麼經濟跟改善還是依照過去的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11435.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11465.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
因為這一次他其實就是說從這一個這個無人機空拍的話基本上就是說他的直批其實算是良好那比較沒有這個自災的徵兆不過他主要大概就是說在這個土壤岩石的結構裡面他有一些這一個節理的這一個這個主柱的他也增加了而且為他也就是說有點就是說也就是說他的這個雨水滲入去裂縫以後就是說他產生比較多的一個就是說大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11465.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11492.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
局長那我這邊先舉例2020年12月台鐵喉痛斷那也發生大規模的走山那當初原本這一段是被列為C級那是相對穩定的區域那當時那個制度也被遭到質疑那台鐵局也費時3個月來做分級檢討制度嘛那找出潛在的邊坡風險並管理分類那就那件事之後難道我們的鐵道還有國道公路邊坡管理就沒有再重新再做檢討嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11494.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11517.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
那個部分的話其實上次其實對於西級邊坡就是說主要是對於那個比如說坡頂的開發水的一個因素的部分其實已經都做完全面的一個體檢而且上次包括就是說比如說水的因素的部分的話其實在布裡面的各局都有做相關的一個檢視然後而且也做了這個改善跟這個這個邊坡等級的一個提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11518.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11537.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
議員提到科技的方式來做預測1968是我們公路局的APP是嗎?是高工局的APP同樣在氣象署他們也有開發許多的APP都有即時的推播我們的公路局跟高工局這邊有做配合嗎?即時的推播 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11541.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11567.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
我來瞭解趙局長對對對氣象的1968是有的跟委員報告我們現在跟氣象局的部分有合作那目前氣象我們在國道有90處的氣象站那也加上那個整個氣象局那個雨量的一個部分在1968你可以直接看到那個當即時的狀況我覺得那是降雨量那我是說比如說發生就是像這次的公踏事故的話能不能即時的提醒用路人 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11567.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11568.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
OK,那未來可以做結合嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11578.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11604.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
在直接有交通的東西他會下指令只會就是在1968上面就會有顯示就是說假如說道路中斷或怎樣都會先在道路沿線很多的CMS上他會就秀出就是說比如說哪裡來道路阻斷對電池看板上都會有是OK那因為這邊時間的關係我先請鐵道局鐵道局楊楊局長請假來副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11610.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11611.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
市長知道嗎?跟委員報告,現在在那個國發會在審議當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11633.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11650.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
還在審議當中那我這邊要特別提到由於主線的電機系統它的擴充時它的擴充時限於今年的6月19號將近那副局長應該了解如果未依限期那這個機電廠商系統擴充的路段本計劃因為沒有契約 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11652.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11668.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
條款的限制後續可能大幅增加數十億的成本那如果另行公開招標的話那全面更新原本的系統會增加到百億元那交通部可以積極協助避免我們經費大幅增加嗎是這部分我們來協助看是如何來加速處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11669.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11670.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
請王宏威委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11695.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11710.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
好謝謝主席我想先請我們交通部的陳次長好陳次長鐵道局鐵道局李副局長李副局長來鐵道局還有高鐵的總經理好高鐵馮總經理來我也好次長好我想先請教這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11727.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11741.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
因為之前高鐵發生的這個九側就是有列車長規避了九側還上車執行我想請問一下到目前為止有沒有任何的懲處現在是總經理是跟委員報告是有懲處怎麼樣懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11754.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11776.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
這個有關於違規的人就是在列車長跟督導的部分都有做一些懲處這是你們內部懲處?是請問鐵道局有做懲處嗎?我們會依鐵路法現在會做那個裁罰還沒有做裁罰?對,現在我們好,那裁罰要怎麼樣裁罰法? |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11779.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11783.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
就是按照鐵路法那個他那個沒有按規定去做這些90老會去裁罰嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11786.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11813.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
到目前為止沒有做裁罰我要講的是我要講的是大家可以看到在這個甚至去年去年底的時候台鐵也一樣發生了一些相關的缺失其中台鐵沒有落實酒測的部分裁罰60萬元這是鐵道局做的裁罰但是高鐵的部分到目前為止鐵道局還沒有做裁罰所以我要講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11816.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11837.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
台鐵、高鐵他們的這個管理一樣重要。如果是同樣的狀況的話,不應該有兩套標準,對不對?是,是標準一樣。好,那另外請鄭總經理再多做說明一下,你們裡面的懲處是到什麼樣的層級? |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11841.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11865.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
還是就是只有這個列車長跟還有幫他去那個什麼就是沒有幫他做酒測的我們是除了這個當事人有做懲處以外也到督導的這個主管也做了一些懲處督導的主管也做懲處是好那時間暫停一下我再請那個運安會的主委好來林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11870.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11894.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
市長也一起聽因為我之前就包含我跟油耗委員我們都提到因為高鐵最近其實出現了一些重大的一些公安事件那最主要的就是應該依照規定作為按照SOP的一些他必須要斷電的沒有斷電而造成了比如說行駛中的車輛 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11895.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11909.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
就跑到隧道裡面就突然的就是突然的因為停電而停止那又或者呢因為沒有斷電而造成在施工中的人員受傷還好沒有人命的這個危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11910.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11939.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那這個是連續發生他是從4月9號到5月11號短短的一個多月之內連續發生兩件那我想請問一下這個部分勞動部就是而且地方的勞動局會介入調查那當然高鐵也應該做他自己的行政調查我想請問一下這些公安事件他同時的會影響這個他的運輸安全的部分那麼運安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11940.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11967.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
查不查?法不法?這個案子他們是有通報啦但是沒有達到立案的標準所以你們院會沒有立案為什麼?因為根據那個重大運輸事務不重要不是不重要因為他不在調查範圍裡面為什麼不在調查範圍裡面重大運輸事務調查範圍裡面他有幾個規定一定要出事了出事了才要調查是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11969.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11990.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
它有一定的標準我要特別提到就是不要等到出事其實我們一直在盯那個台灣高鐵這些相關的這個事件其實我們會希望能夠未雨綢繆而不要等到發生事故的時候然後呢大家才在做事後的這個來追究處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11991.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12007.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
所以現在連續發聲就是應該要去那個未雨綢繆另外我請教一下我們的交通部次長次長你知不知道因為我們交通部是臺灣高鐵的第一大股東對不對那你知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12010.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12031.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
這個高鐵最近改了他的這個公司章程然後對這個董事長退職可以給予這個退職金所以呢他算起來如果按照我們現在的董事長江耀宗董事長他做8年嘛那他起碼可以拿到560萬的退職金 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12033.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12043.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
在這個即將就是在新舊政府交接之際然後改這個公司章程請問一下交通部有掌握嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12045.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12074.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我想跟委員報告台高公司的相關的一個董事會的處理交通部是有所了解的但是原則上我們尊重他公事治理的相關的一個程序而且他在他這一件事情其實是沒有針對性的他是屬於公司的組織商層的一個條件沒有啊你這個做完當然第一任就是董事長就是江耀宗啊所以我問你就是你們交通部事前知情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12076.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12083.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
我們有瞭解相關的這個董事會裡頭要討論這樣的一個議案所以你們事前知情事後同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12084.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12110.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
我們尊重他們那個公司自己的結果很尊重那其他的公司是不是也可以同樣如法炮製大家都改一下公司章程因為這個新政府上來很可能這些相關的公營事業可能這些董事長甚至總經理可能都會有換人的狀況趕快未雨綢繆還是台灣高鐵比較聰明趕快來為自己的董事長來量身定做做一個他可以領這個560萬退資金 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12113.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12131.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
通通可以嗎?我想跟委員報告每一家公司的營運的情形也都不一樣所以我剛才才會講到說會做這樣的一個處理跟調整是要經過公司董事會而且是公司治理的這樣的一個你左一句公司治理右一句公司治理你們就是最大股東啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12132.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12158.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
最大股東是要去監督瞭解但是整個營運上我覺得還是要尊重公司自己我覺得這件事情這個當然就是有關於董事長總經理尤其董事長的退資金不是不可以討論但是你在這個時候新舊政府交接的時候去弄一個這樣的組織章程難免瓜田李下難免會被人家質疑說這是自肥條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12160.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12177.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
如果今天交通部可以放任這樣的話那其他的你們相關公司可能經濟部下面公司大家都趕快做啊因為也不曉得哪一天我就會被換掉啊趕快來通過這些自肥條款如果此例一開大家都這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12178.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12201.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
所以我覺得這是沒有體制的那我覺得交通部如果可以讓台灣高鐵這樣做其實是並不合理的事情而且你不能用左一句公司治理右一句公司治理你今天交通部你們都同意按照你這樣講你事先就同意那麼下面就是交通部所有的相關的事業單位大家都可以來做我覺得這才合理啊怎麼可以只有一家公司這樣做呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12203.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12220.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我還是要跟委員報告每一家公司它的營運的情形跟狀況是不一樣的所以說我剛才才會一再的強調其實每一家公司都還有獨立的一個公司的人格所以它公司治理在每一家公司都是非常重要的而且是不同看待的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12221.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12249.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
反正你先講半天就是你同意他這樣子所以我也建議大家全部都如法炮製大家趕快來做一做這邊就是他不是按照什麼就是你只要做一年就可以領兩個月做半年也可以領一個月用這種方式嘛這個真的是自肥條款啦好不好這個其實我覺得對社會觀感並不好我想委員的意見可以留供台高公司參考謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12252.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12279.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
好,謝謝我們王宏威委員現在請鄭天才委員發言好,主席,各位委員,還有請次長好,陳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12288.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12312.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
委員好次長好辛苦了是這個0403大地震之後遺震非常非常的多了這一直到前幾天都還有遺震所以很特殊的一個地震所以蘇花公路一再的攤房在5月10號當然我們之前也有攤房過5月10號攤房 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12316.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12337.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
然後這個在6月的時候又攤方所以這個部分6月1日也攤方另外就是在6月3日台九縣蘇拉公路162.9K從德隧道北端又攤方所以這個部分這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12341.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12353.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
還好都沒有造成砸到這個車輛這個是很幸運的一個地方所以這個部分這個交通部公路總局到底有什麼樣因應的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12355.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12374.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
施根委員報告目前因為確實就是10月3日地震之後的話這個余震這個尤其在花蓮市非常多那就是說這個受災比較嚴重的台九的蘇花跟台八的中橫那目前大概就是說落實的部分我們第一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12375.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12401.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
及攤及清6月3日從崩塌的崩塌到隔天早上6點清完就開放通行其他的像台九蘇花公路沿線有一些邊坡的話當然就是說我們開放通行的話第一階段就是它的上邊坡的浮石的部分我們一定是先把它刷下來就是說通行安全上沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12402.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12426.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
另外就是說因為邊坡還是要做整體的一個這個防治那所以台九線的蘇花沿線的這個邊坡受損的部分我們要做到年底要做到年底的話就是說能夠就是說有一些邊坡的整治會有告一個段落那目前蘇花公路其實只剩下就是說下清水橋這邊大概就是它有一個就是說這一個原來的橋樑要做復建所以大型車輛這個5月30日也通車了 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12429.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12452.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
目前只有在這個日間這個早上8點到下午的5點在做施工的時候會有做時段性的管制那夜間的時候沒有管制那基本上就是民眾的通行沒有問題當然就是有時候因為地震或者是降雨比較多他會有零星的落石那那個部分我們如果掌握的話都會及時的這個封路不要讓民眾就是說因為這個會有落石還要開進這個區域 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12455.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12471.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
大清水那邊在5月31日已經通過大車了通過大車這個通過大車之前我也去了通過大車那這段時間有沒有探訪過 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12474.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12475.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12486.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12514.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
防護的那個什麼時候會完成那個大概就是說都是在年底前基本上的防護措施年底前大概邊坡的防護包括這個防落石網還有一些邊坡的整治都會做相關的處理所以這個部分是一個需要積極的來去處理的部分當然工程還是有它的一個極限所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12515.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12531.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
要最安全的就是要趕快把舒華安能夠開始施工而現在就是因為環評出省二月二十號的時候還要補正然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12532.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12557.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
5月14日第二次的專案小組出省會議建議通過而已還要再修正你們送修了沒有對就是5月14日就是這個環評專案小組已經出省建議通過那這個會議的結論是說7月底以前就是要把補充的資料送進去那公路局這邊會加速那大概7月15號我們7月15號會送 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12560.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12566.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
會會會因為他有一些要補充補充的一些調查或是有一些說明資料我們原則上一定會盡快 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12568.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12597.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
這個因為齁這個最重要的是除了你們要趕快送趕快送這個從5月14號到現在也蠻久了所以第一個要趕快送5月22號在這邊的時候也有質詢次長說趕快送送了之後要告訴我我來去協調環境部我也質詢過環境部啊我在5月22號啊我也質詢了環境部啊收到的時候要提早開 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12598.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12621.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
提早開這個環評大會因為這個是真的是拖太久了因為這剛才講的那些落實那些包括 攤房的那個部分都是在舒華安要做的地方嘛所以這個部分越早完成就可以更有安全的一個來往的一個交通道路好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12623.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12623.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
現在請黃國昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12650.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12660.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
議員主席,是否可以麻煩邀請應援會的主委以及交通部的政事陳政事好,應援會林主委還有我們交通部陳次長好,委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12668.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12686.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
兩位,延續了上一次質詢的重點也就是針對自駕車的發展我說過讓人類的生活更美好這樣子一個高科技的發展我基本上是支持的我上次質詢的重點是不要胡搞瞎搞 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12687.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12704.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
找一些莫名其妙的廠商用虛偽不實的得獎紀錄來詐騙台灣政府莫名其妙可惡至極啊結果我們中央政府跟地方政府全部都呆呆傻傻的錢一直掏出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12706.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12729.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
然後給這種像詐騙集團的廠商一樣因為他政治後台比較硬嗎這是我上一次質詢的重點但我今天要繼續沿著是另外一個層次因為這個自駕車的實驗在交通部的主導之下在我國好幾個城市都有在進行吧但我要問的是說你們說現在還在技術驗證 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12733.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12753.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
的階段當中然後在沙盒裡面實驗這個我都聽得懂那問題是什麼問題是你在沙盒裡面實驗啊不可以實驗出問題什麼叫不可以實驗出問題來我跟市長報告一下台61西濱快速道路啊因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12754.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12771.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
不用過路費嘛跟高速公路不一樣嘛所以呢所以有很多大貨車大卡車其實都是乾坡人啦在送貨的時候都走台61嘛所以你看一下4月13號死亡車禍4月6號死亡車禍5月4號死亡車禍都是今年喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12778.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12800.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
我只是很簡單去搜尋過去兩個月在台61西濱快速道路所出現的死亡車禍就這麼多了結果你們在搞自駕車的計畫的時候竟然選在台61搞在整個計畫開始以前就很多人提醒你們說這個台61車禍多狀況複雜大家都在質疑結果你們還是過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12808.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12826.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
還是過了第一個你們在審查的整個過程當中我要問的第一個問題是說公路總局是整個自駕車沙盒的計畫推動機關然後你們自己也是沙盒實驗的審查委員自己的計畫自己審這樣對嗎來請市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12832.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12834.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
我們看一下無人載具科技創新實驗智慧台61公路自駕運行計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12860.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12871.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
你們交通部公路總局的章委員順清說的公總在本案有雙重角色一個是計畫推動機關也是本案在沙盒實驗的審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12874.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12893.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
白紙黑字寫這樣現在有問題很簡單啊你自己推動自己審查可以這樣搞嗎我再跟委員說說明這個沙盒計畫的審查他本來就有邀請各機關來提供他各機關來提供委員所以但是整體沙盒計畫的審查這個是在經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12896.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12910.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
所以我想這個或許是我們當時如果是審查交通部的計畫說不定是這個相關委員是不是有應該要迴避的問題是好你講的很好齁如果在審查你們這個自駕車五輪載具的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12913.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12933.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
你們交通部派出去的特別是公路總局該迴避就要迴避啊怎麼會大剌剌的自己在審查會議講這個計畫我推動的然後這個計畫我還參與審查我扮演雙重角色這不是我說的欸這你們委員自己講的欸可以這樣嗎難怪大家會質疑嘛那台61當初大家在質疑這麼危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12939.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12966.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
死亡車禍這麼多你們在上面搞自駕車的沙盒你們心臟會不會太大顆啊結果今年1月真的你們的自駕車台61擦撞自行車造成騎士受傷我看到這件事情的時候我覺得啊真的是佛祖有保佑只有擦傷佛祖有保佑只有擦傷但這個是一個明顯的事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12968.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12978.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
針對這個明顯的事故對照到你們當初在台六十一推動的時候大家所提出來的質疑公路總局有沒有重新檢討還要執意這樣幹下去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12982.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13002.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
先來說明一下然後看局長要不要補充啊原則上這台六十一的事辦的計畫委員剛才看到雖然是台六十一但是他這是屬於平面路段平面路段因為有高架以後所以平面路段的交通量確實比較少而且沿線大概都是一些漁村所以當時他會選在這裡而且是希望以公共運輸的方式來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13003.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13029.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
但是這一件事情所以事故不是發生了嗎是我要跟委員這個事故發生了以後我了解目前這個計畫目前是在暫停的階段好你說的你說到重點了齁現在計畫是在暫停的階段嘛暫停了以後大家就要評估安不安全嘛可不可以繼續搞下去嘛但我現在得到的資訊是什麼我現在得到的資訊是啊拿到這一億元標案的廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13031.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13059.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
一億元標案嘛這個案子是一億對不對對吧這個可能要要查一下我我全部都查過啦前兩年五千萬後三年五千萬加起來一億啦沙盒如果不繼續錢拿不到所以他一定要讓沙盒進去他後面的錢才拿得到嘛那廠商已經非常大剌剌的在外面講啊這個審查會議我們走過場啊一定會過 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13060.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13082.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
因為不夠我後面的錢拿不到我聽到這樣的聲稱啊我非常的震驚啊來看一下你們在跨部會台61自駕案10月續型評估會議當中審查委員怎麼講的來請次長仔細看我也拜託那個運安會的主委你也一起看一下因為真的出了事哦真的出了事接下來就運安會的事了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13083.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13110.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
安全事故報告應該由公正專業的第三方進行調查安全事故報告應該上網公開美國加州DMV所主責的自駕車上路測試也同樣要求安全事故報告要上網公開所以這個事故的安全事故調查報告應該要重來來我先問一下次長現在這個事故的安全事故調查報告誰在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13114.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13115.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
來請運輸安全調查委員會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13128.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13155.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
站不贊成我們一件事一件事啦站不贊成第17點委員所發表的意見安全事故調查報告應該由公正專業的第三方進行調查主委有贊成嗎?如果經濟部宣布他邀請公正專業第三方進行調查的話我們可以協助但是重大運輸事故的調查會屬於實現性質的事故是不在範圍內的好沒有關係啦我知道你不希望運安會現在就扛這個鍋嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13157.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13180.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
那即使不是你運安會的鍋你也要搞一個公正專業的第三方嘛那公正專業的第三方主委要不要承擔我都尊重啊你說不在你法定職權的範圍嘛但我要請教主委的事情是人家提出來這個意見很中肯啊主委認不認同他提出來的意見他是他不了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13182.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13206.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
不是啦,他只有說公正專業的第三方,人家就沒有講運安會,你不要緊張嘛。對對對,但是如果他有公正專業的第三方進行調查的時候,運安會的相關調查技術可以支援嗎?好,非常好。運安會要支援嘛。來,次長,在不贊成這個事故調查報告應該由公正專業的第三方進行調查?這個我、我們支持。你們支持?現在有這樣做嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13208.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13230.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
現在有這樣做嗎?這就是我的問題了因為現在的調查報告荒謬是什麼?申請拿到沙盒的人自己在提報告自己出事故自己提報告那等於是什麼?出了事故的人自己檢討自己自己評估自己是在檢討什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13231.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13247.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
是在評估什麼?市長你剛答應了嘛說你贊成要由公正專業的第三方進行調查接下來台61自駕車的這個計畫要不要續行下去我們就先請公正專業的第三方來進行事故調查市長可不可以承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13248.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13271.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
我想委員他這裡頭因爲他有一定的一個機制在這裡頭做相關的有關這個沙盒實驗的一個評估那他這裡頭特別特別提到他評估的結論是希望用那個調查的報告到這個應該是一個委員會裡頭去討論所以我想這個委員會裡頭的相關的委員自然都會有一個第三方公證人這個委員會的委員包括這個委員會做的評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13274.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13297.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
不是申請人自己提出來的報告而已喔申請人自己提報告自己調查自己那個是笑話你們成立了這個小組有哪些委員他們評估的內容是不是可以讓社會大眾知道也提供給所有交通委員會的委員這是很重要我已經說了喔出了事是佛祖有保佑所以只是擦傷 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13299.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13319.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
委員這個我們來聯繫我的了解這個的委員會或這個審查會是經濟部在召開的啦好沒關係啦你們跨部會去跟經濟部講好嘛是我們建議他我們在建議他發展自駕車要實驗委員的審議我們都贊成啦你台挑台61線之前就有人警告過了啊現在真的出事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13320.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13340.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
分紅小可啊要嚴肅面對啊是我們會嚴肅面對那至於說經濟部那個委員會希望一些比較公正專業的人士來加入這個我們來建議他我們來建議他你們打算怎麼處理你們跟經濟部聯合起來一週之內交書面報告可以嗎你最起碼讓大家知道你要怎麼處理嘛可以可以我們來一個禮拜之內齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13343.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13358.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
一個禮拜會不會我們怎麼處理來提供讓委員知道啦好不好不要書面提供啊是啊書面提供吧怎麼處理一個禮拜之內可以嗎我們要跟經濟部協商啊兩個禮拜三個禮拜三個禮拜好可以三個禮拜好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13361.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13372.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
謝謝我們黃國昌委員現在請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在現在請林業勤委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13385.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13408.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
麻煩我們交通部次長跟我們的運安會的主委好來陳次長林主委委員好好次長好和主委好下一頁這個事實上是在2022年的時候當時的賴副總統出席運安會研討會三週年的研討會的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13410.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13427.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
對運安的一個期許強調未來運安會應該能夠在專業調查跟資訊公佈以外能夠進一步的話被動為主動並接軌國際化確保臺灣的運輸安全主委你對這兩項期許你是否有把握做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13430.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13449.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
沒有錯,當時的副總統,他當時確實有這樣提,他的意思是說各主管機關都要有一個評鑑機制,確實是沒有錯。據我們所了解目前國內機關的評鑑機制是有的,譬如說衛福部他有對醫療機構有評鑑, |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13452.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13471.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
那民航局對航空公司的安全服務也有一些評鑑那公路局也對遊覽車客運公司他有一些服務譬如安全評鑑等等那相關機關譬如說空勤總隊的評鑑作為未來如果有需要因為他是屬於內政部那我們會協助他來辦因為他有主管機關下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13473.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13494.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
這個過去我在民間在競選基金會服務的時候就一直不斷地強調國內的幼童專用車的安全上是有疑慮的也希望能夠持續有作為那目前上提供的一些相關的服務車輛都非常不安全我始終在跟我們的交通部一直在溝通這件事情可是似乎 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13495.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13511.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
目前事實上是沒有比較更積極的作為下一頁的確等到2023年年底的時候彰化又再度的發生幼童專用車事件那這次沒有翻覆可是直接撞進農田造成15人受傷這一次事故當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13513.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13530.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
會終於看到用途專業車的問題願意針對這次的案件來做調查我也予以高度的肯定下一頁那我想問主委的是這個案子目前的調查進度到哪裡了方向是什麼他調查項目是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13531.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13554.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
目前,雖然這個右頭專車不是屬於汽車運輸業那特殊人員死傷的這個限制沒有但是我們有主動來立案調查我們有成立的三個分組車輛分組、操作分組、生還因素的分組那麼對整個車輛安全、駕駛行為、乘客的安全有進行調查這個案子預定是 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13556.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13568.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
這個月的6月要就是這個月底會發布他的會發布嗎因為我現在看到你們4月份明年的5月會完成最終的報告好預定是這樣子是什麼時候明年的5月完成最終報告好 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13569.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13587.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
因為我們看到的確你們交通委員會當中的確提到這個預計明年的5月可是我要在這邊提醒的是剛剛問的主委說我也提醒要化主動化被動為主動所以也希望你們化被動可不可以調查的方向跟項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13588.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13607.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
的這個範圍的項目不是僅限於這個碰撞事件的本身是不是可以擴大相關法令的檢討還有車輛規格本身跟前端檢驗測試的問題下一頁所以我就來跟你講說到底有多不安全幼童專用車現在目前呢德力卡呢事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13608.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13632.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
當初在20192019年後改款他大肆的做文章說他到底有多安全可是目前我們幼童專用車都是用中華德力卡那他改裝前沒有安全氣囊沒有任何主動主被動的安全系統動態穩定現在目前還有2000多輛的車在幼兒園使用當中下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13633.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13647.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
所以沒得選欸因為99.9%都是德利卡車型所以家長沒得選事實上幼兒園也沒得挑沒辦法就是只能用這個因為整體現在能夠提供的就只有這輛車下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13649.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13663.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
那可是在所謂的策略在上市之前都需要經過測試跟審驗的程序我們目前國家事實上是有所謂的強制跟非強制的這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13665.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13666.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13691.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13717.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
所以交通部就表示為什麼不做碰撞試驗呢因為座椅的高度如果要回答這樣子的話那就來問是說那就把要求教育部是不是把幼童車廂車全部都改裝為所謂的大顆車的狀態而不是用這小型箱型車的時候又沒有辦法做安全碰撞試然後我們現在就又甚至剩下一款車可是每一天在用著幼兒的時候我們相信家長一定是提心吊膽的 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13718.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13742.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
所以我也不太接受交通部的這樣的答覆了下一頁所以希望德力卡的這個車款能不能符合平等試用範圍也是市場這個趨勢的車型的時候可是沒有接受ACP的平等試驗也就是我剛剛講非強制性的來下一頁這個就是交通主管機關不敢面對的這是我們取得國外這是中華德力卡的那個車型 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13744.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13759.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
他會造成駕駛跟副駕駛呢事實上是保護不足然後產生傷害可是今天所有整車的幼童都要靠司機跟隨車來保護的時候結果這兩個人他就已經不被保護的時候那怎麼有辦法去保護我們的幼童呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13761.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13782.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
下一頁最後我期待是不是想問的是次長跟主委我現在提出來的這三點也就是重新檢討我們的車輛審驗的安全規範導入國際認可的碰撞試驗還有呢第二個是是不是有具體的獎勵方案來鼓勵車廠能夠可不可以有更多的車種轉為 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13784.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13784.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
市長及委員可否針對這個能夠做承諾? |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13800.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13816.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
我剛剛報告過我們這個案子有分成車輛分組那車輛分組裡面對又同專用車的車輛安全法規相關我們會進行解釋那至於他這個車輛安全檢測的機組是不是要導入什麼比較科技化的系統裡面這個是不是有交通部來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13819.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13843.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
首先很感佩委員對於幼童專用車或是校車上的一個長期的關注剛才特別提到的這些問題都是問題而且也就是剛才委員剛才特別提到要導入國際認可的或國際的法規裡頭其實就是因為車輛的本身是有國際化的所以剛才講到的現行的德力卡是箱型車所以它不做實車碰撞這是限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13844.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13861.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
委員提到的這個建議我比較具體的建議可以容許我們回去研究一下然後特別跟委員做一個來告訴委員說我們打算怎麼做我覺得站在兒童交通安全上是可以有一些作為具體怎麼做再來跟委員討教 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13862.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13862.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
謝謝我們林業請委員現在請黃珊珊委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13896.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13902.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
好,謝謝主席,我請次長還有公路局好,我們請陳局長還有陳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13911.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13932.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
好的兩位好我想今天大家都非常關心的是基隆的山崩那天我剛好也經過那邊所以大家看到說今天的報告是公路局有非常多的監測的方式跟工具那這個地方長期有做監控或者是有相關的設施在這邊做監控然後這次有做出任何的預警狀況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13934.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13952.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
我們在這個地方因為它是有邊坡分級的所以在邊坡分級上我們在它有沒有監控儀器在這裡頭是沒有的所以它是屬於C級所以沒有邊坡所以接下去今天它崩了接下去它會用什麼樣的方式來列管 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13955.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13983.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
我簡單一下我們會立即把它提升它的邊坡等級然後做相關的一個巡檢也好或之後就會做相關的監控監控我們會依照我們去檢討的結果必要的時候我們會來加監控的一個設備市長我知道公務局要管全國各地的這個邊坡啦其實很大所以如果沒有監控儀器那你們平常是怎麼監控的像這個地方有沒有被預警 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13985.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14004.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
各位報告邊坡的部分的話基本上就是說我們列管的邊坡就是每一週都會巡查一次那再就是說像比如說巡查就是人力去巡查對人力巡查人力巡查有跟地方政府合作嗎就是我因為這個是屬於我們自己管轄的對你們要自己看對對對地方政府有通報機制給你們的話你們也會去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14005.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14023.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14024.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14050.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
我們希望你的監控不單單只是之前發生事情那長期的人力監控其實我們要用更科學的方法第三個可能打通通報的機制如果民眾可以直接反映到公路局公路局可以馬上有一些預警他有一些碎石掉下來的時候就應該做一些算是警示啦或者是你們自己先做一些相關的處理因為這是崩的真的很快速而且滿觸目驚心 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14051.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14071.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
對,所以我覺得監控是一個很以現在的台灣科技不是問題只是你要不要怎麼樣用方式去使用它第二個問題我覺得比較有趣喔這個在發生在基隆最近市長不知道有沒有看到網路上有一位網紅Tony先生他上傳了一支影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14072.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14097.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
他說他在基隆的三雕嶺車站他去旅遊結果呢三雕嶺車站沒有任何的行人通道所以他就拍照嘛所以他就走到了一條維修工人行走的唯一的通道那這條通道因為禁止一般行人通行這個鐵道橋上因為這樣所以他違反鐵路法被罰款一萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14098.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14125.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
那當地的其實這個地方有很多的居民居民平常都是要坐到這個火車站一個車站沒有行人通道讓民眾行走然後讓所有走的人如果被檢舉就會被罰一萬塊然後我們的意思是說我們台鐵是希望所有的人到這個車站之後是要插個翅膀飛過去嗎?次長你知道你有看到這個新聞嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14126.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14150.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
我有看到而且我們非常重視所以而且這個案子就很好笑你知道鐵道局怎麼回我這鐵道警察送的法單所以他只能開法那鐵道警察說有人檢舉我就要開法但是還是要請台鐵提出因應措施所以一個推一個鐵道局推給鐵道警察鐵道警察推給台鐵請問中華民國政府要推給誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14152.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14171.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
是,我想委員的諮詢我們如果不能給人家一個安全合法的通道那你把這個車站給廢了吧你看那些居民在這邊每天在違法你明知道他違法沒有檢舉就沒事有人檢舉就有事重點是有沒有辦法做一條讓人家安全回家的路啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14172.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14176.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
所以我們這個問題我們有看到所以我們大概已經徹徹徹徹徹徹徹徹徹徹徹徹徹徹徹徹 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14193.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14219.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
然後還要我們看到網紅的影片才來處理市長如果台灣還有這種關閉民反明明知道然後讓民眾不斷的在違法視而不見的政府單位我覺得你要好好的整頓一下這我們來檢討明知道而且都知道鐵道局也知道鐵路警察也知道舊台鐵不知道然後要網紅出來才知道這很離譜啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14221.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14237.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
如果我們的政府是讓人民每天要做違法的事這個不是一個有違的政府該做的事而且這件事情這麼小還要讓它上網路上才會被看見委員的一個指教我們有看到所以我們會立即來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14239.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14251.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
不要再發聲了也不要讓人家走在這邊說你都要碰到火車被撞死了是你的責任因為你不能走然後你走上去你就是違法是你的問題你們現在只有一個狀況就是你們推責任給人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14251.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14277.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
委員我們是不是可以一個月內提供書面資料給委員?不是書面資料,你要告訴我你做什麼?這一個月這些人要怎麼走?這些居民這一個月要怎麼回家?我們會提供我們的相關安全的路、合法的路、延宜的一個說明跟延宜的處置的情形。如果我們要推展觀光,我們是讓人家坐火車坐到那邊之後變違法,沒路可走,叫人家再跳上火車再走回去,那你,那你推展,那你放這個車站要幹嘛? |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14278.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14297.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
好嗎?次長?一個禮拜給我一個完整的報告第二個你多久要完成這件事?可能把相關的措施告訴我好我們一個禮拜先把我們打算怎麼做讓委員知道要做變強要做任何事情我想國軍的工兵隊都可以幫你做到只是你要不要做而已好嗎?謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14301.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14309.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
好,謝謝黃珊珊委員、蘇清淺委員、蘇清淺委員、蘇清淺委員不在。 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14313.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14337.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
好,現在登記執行委員已經已發言完畢做以下決定一、報告及執行完畢二、委員以執行中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答詢部分請應安會、交通部儘速以書面回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14339.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14342.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
本日議程處理完畢現在上會謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14359.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14388.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14392.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14412.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14415.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14417.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
委員會主任委員會主席 |