| IVOD_ID |
159865 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159865 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-02T12:08:56+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-02T12:18:01+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:05 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/af9684606460b58233092d8cf9f72b8e36631c288f31339db6cb27fd71dc7bab56ee6e04b9c1f51b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱若華 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:08:56 - 12:18:01 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查國家通訊傳播委員會函為修正「應經核准之電信管制射頻器材」、「電信管制射頻器材製造輸入及申報作業管理辦法」及「電信管理業務規費收費標準」第十四條條文案。
二、審查(一)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「電信管理法第五條、第八條及第七十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「電信管理法第五條及第八條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)委員鍾佳濱等21人擬具「電信管理法第五條、第九條及第七十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「電信管理法第九條及第四十條條文修正草案」案及(五)委員陳俊宇等19人擬具「電信管理法第七十五條條文修正草案」案。
【上午詢答、下午處理】） |
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謝謝主席 主席有請陳黛主委好 陳黛主委主委好 我們今天的會議主要是針對兩項議題進行討論一個是將干擾無人機訊號等相關設備納入第一設平器材的管理規範那再來是針對電信管理法的審查那本席今天就今天 |
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所列之審查一案就叫主委那本期在去年的10月7日打詐專案報告中曾經就第二類電信業者是否應該由NCC直接管理提出質詢那當時是溫柏中副主委備詢那我們先來看到法務部的統計資料顯示 |
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75.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
雖然113年的詐騙案件數跟112年比起來 瑞有下降可是還是高於111年的16801件這顯示出詐騙案根本沒有趨緩的 還是不斷的在發生那今年的1月至2月 全國地方的地檢署它新收到的電信詐騙案 它的案件數則達到3075件 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
107.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
根據打詐儀表板來看同期間的詐騙案件數為兩萬三千八百九十三件那詐騙的金額高達一百五十六億兩千七百三十五萬那不管是哪一個單位的數據來看很明顯詐騙依然橫行受害的人還是不斷增加那我們接著看到電信管理法在一百零八年六月二十六日的時候公佈那當初立法的目的是在於接個原電信法的制度沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
107.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
122.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
是部分接軌它但是也要創造一個讓業者有服務讓整個國家社會有服務創新的一些空間跟動能所以會解除相對跟資訊服務業比較接近那一塊的區塊我們就比較解除列管 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
123.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
140.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
謝謝主委那當時也有要求單位要三年內完成轉軌那隨著轉軌完成那至此第二類的電信業者他不用再向NCC申請那他也不再受到NCC來監理而是改以公司法為主要規範那目前是在經濟部作為主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
142.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
169.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以沒錯吧但是還是會有原來二類還是有持續來登記因為他有些他登記完之後對他的營業會比較有利比方說他要投地方政府的一些標案如果他來登記的話對他而言是一次一個加分的就目前的登記數是多少就有二類目前登記數是60幾家是60幾家那當時電管法上路108年7月的時候當時的全國第二類電信業者大概有幾家 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
170 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
185.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
就有的是216家216家因為我這邊本席這邊看到是386家108年7月的統計那所以這專會完成目前這些業者他有沒有收到NCC |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
185.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
214.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
實質的監理跟我們報告我剛剛講是純粹IASP因為二類的範圍很大它裡都有IASP有MVMO也有其他價值服務今天是386家是所有的二類家種所以你有提到IASP那本席今天要跟您討論的會是著重在MVMO那我們現在我們看到有386家那轉軌以後大多數他們都沒有登記也不受到實質的查核那這些業者是否現在還在提供VOIP還有簡訊SIM卡等服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
217.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
235.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這邊簡訊信卡的服務其實如果他是做MVML的話他可以兩種身份一個是他用MVMLMVML現在還是有一家業者那如果他是他不想用MVML身份那他就變成三大業者的企客那他現在很多他現在很多都是他目前是第二類電信業者那都有走在監理的邊緣您認為這樣的架構合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
239.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
255.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
就是我們在全能說維持社會公益公益打債是社會公益之一是我們要全能還有這個業者的創新發展我們在一直在動態的所以現在您提到打債那電信轉軌制度已經上路那可是第二類的電信業者頻頻捲入詐騙案這是您清楚吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
256.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
279.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
原來的這種情況我們知道我們現在看到前年的2月桃園地檢署查獲不肖的第二類電信業者與詐騙集團合作都在發送了1193萬封的詐騙簡訊這個數量非常的驚人那不僅如此還有中華電信合作的第二類電信業者涉嫌將民眾的個資外洩以防治安危機那更嚴重的是呢前年4月爆發三家第二類 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
280.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
的電信業設詐詐騙案那檢方也查出NCC的前委員也擔任其中一家的業者顧問那並且透過他兒子的帳戶每個月收取1500到1600的酬勞那對於這樣的現象第二類電信業者他已經是打詐的破口之一了主委您怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
320.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
就是針對打架部分我們要針對說比較跟打架有關的我們都持續在努力像MVM我們去年就已經把他納管了那ISP這次的報告我們也提出我們的看法我們也認同說ISP要適度納管要適度納管那可是目前現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
323.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
350.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以納管的 您納管的定義是你們有做出什麼樣的管理跟約束比方說FMO它目前有來登記的在119年轉軌的中間它是7家那電管法施行之後它有7家只要它有來登記它就是電信事業電信事業就會要承擔電信管理法裡頭那去年事業開放電信事業任務號碼管理辦法那您目前掌握到的總共幾家 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
351.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
380.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
如果MVM的話就7家就7家所以他不到10家那這項辦法他有沒有強制力呃有有他有什麼樣的強制力就是說他違反的話因為他是母法授權他違反的話一樣受到電信管理法母法的一些一些罰則注意請教第二類電信業是否一定要向NCC申請看他有沒有符合我們現在第五條的規定說他要取得一些頻率資源那有申請的才會被NCC視為第二類電信業那沒有申請的叫做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
381.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
399.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們是自願登記的那沒有申請的呢沒有申請的話廣義上他就是廣義的資訊服務業者沒有申請的是不是叫企業用戶他是不是以企業用戶的身份存在如果他是跟電信業三大合作的話他是他的企業客戶那是誰來做管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
400.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
420.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
如果是契克的話那他跟三大之間是有契約關係靠契約關係來約束那目前是不是由第一類的電信業者來做管理MVMO那一塊目前因為他有來登記的話他就是要自己承擔責任義務他自己要承擔責任那請教主委這樣的制度第一類的電信業者有法律上的公權力嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
423.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
441.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我知道委員要反映說業者反映說有什麼長臂管理這塊是沒有的我們跟他說過好幾次所以我們都知道第一類的電信業者他不具備法律上的公權力那這樣情況下第二類業者他真的會完全配合第一類業者的約束跟管理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
443.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
463.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
公委報告兩個層次第一個他跟電信業者會有簽約如果他的違反他契約的一些規定的話三大業者可以跟他解約如果您是第二類的電信業者那當第一類的電信業者向您調閱客戶資料的話你會不會提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
464.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
487.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這一部分我們並沒有要求也不在規範你的要求我是說假使如果你是第二類電信業者你會把你的資料交給第一類嗎這一部分應該必須要符合法規法規上不允許的話我是如果是我我是不會你是不會啊那所以你怎麼會覺得那第二類的電信業者他會據實以告所以這一部分我們的執法委員會並沒有要求要做這種事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
488.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
508.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那這個三代固有業者的移入我們可以跟他說明嗎所以我們都看到第一類的電信業者來管理來監督自己的潛在競爭者也就是第二類的電信業者你覺得這樣子合理嗎只是他們誤解啦其實他們有一個過濾因為我們3月20日跟他們說明這是不是制度上面的一個漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
509.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
526.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我沒有跟他說明過關鍵的動作是檢視其實他只要做到一般的檢查義務我們不是要他做到高階的善良管理人的義務本席最後認為因為有鑑於現在第二類的信業者已經是詐騙案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
527.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
539.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
裡面的破口那每次都是第二被查出都是第二類業者的關係那也希望NCC可以重視這個問題那提出具體的改善好沒問題我們會努力謝謝謝謝委員 |