| IVOD_ID |
159765 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159765 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-27T13:43:55+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-27T13:57:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:52 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ae27c1b40c0db900a969d475303798a37648dfe0a0275fc5c923c0b21f6ae56173d84130179852065ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:43:55 - 13:57:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、國家發展委員會、教育部、法務部針對「少子女化衝擊，如何營造友善托育環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| gazette.lineno |
1799 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
陳委員瑩：（13時44分）謝謝主席。麻煩請呂次長和國健署署長。吳署長又沒來？出國嗎？我看今天出席大概都是副司長以上，只有國健署是派組長來，各單位比較起來，國健署好像比較不關心少子化的問題。既然他沒來，那就組長先上。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請呂次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
呂次長建德：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
陳委員瑩：次長好。目前每年菸捐平均收入金額大約多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
呂次長建德：報告委員，據我粗淺的了解，過去十年平均值大概313億元。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
陳委員瑩：沒錯，15年的資料彙整大概是313億元。用於國健署相關業務組的業務使用是多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
呂次長建德：如果沒記錯，我記得好像是二千多萬元。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
陳委員瑩：沒關係，組長不用緊張。如果你現在翻不到，給你們一週的時間，好好算清楚，給我們辦公室就好了。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
呂次長建德：感謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
陳委員瑩：用於補助董氏基金會等民間團體的經費又是多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
呂次長建德：因為我們有三位次長，這不是我督導的業務。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
陳委員瑩：他們又沒來，但是有國健署。沒關係，因為這個問題我們也找了很久，不好找，我們沒有在你們裡面也是看不到，所以也給你們一週的時間，這個應該以前都有問過，一週喔！兩個數字。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
呂次長建德：好，一週內。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
陳委員瑩：這邊我舉董氏基金會為例，董氏基金會職員的薪資有沒有使用到菸捐？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
呂次長建德：據我了解好像有。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
陳委員瑩：應該是有？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
呂次長建德：應該有。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
陳委員瑩：如果有使用的話，薪資水準有沒有經過衛福部或國健署的審核？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
呂次長建德：一般來說，像我所督導的婦女權益促進基金會和賑災基金會，他們的薪資都要報我們主管機關核備，但我不知道董氏基金會的情況是怎樣，我請同仁回去趕快了解，再回報給委員，一般來說是要。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
陳委員瑩：麻煩你們。請問他們的薪資有沒有隨著公務人員加薪或基本工資的調升而調整？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
呂次長建德：一般來說也是。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
陳委員瑩：請你們一併了解完之後，全部都一週內一起回報我們辦公室。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
呂次長建德：好的。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
陳委員瑩：再請教次長，菸害對人體影響最大的兩個器官是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
呂次長建德：我自己不抽，但我的了解好像是心和肺。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
陳委員瑩：沒錯。鑑別這兩個器官的重要檢查醫療儀器設備是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
呂次長建德：好像是CT和MRI，一個是電腦斷層，一個是核磁共振。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
陳委員瑩：我們絕對沒有洩題給呂次長，謝謝你很厲害的準備。再來，這些是不是都由醫事放射師的專業人員來操作？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
呂次長建德：對，一般來說，這需要專業的放射師來操作相關的程序。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
陳委員瑩：你知道醫事放射師的起薪是多少嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
呂次長建德：如果沒有記錯，好像3萬1,108元，低於中位數。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
陳委員瑩：就你剛剛講的，我待會會給你一個數字。你知道二十年前他們的起薪跟現在差不多嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
呂次長建德：我不太清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
陳委員瑩：我今天的質詢就揭露一件驚人的事情。二十年前的起薪和現在其實是差不多的！這二十年來我們基本工資調整多少，簡報上都幫你們整理了。民國95年的時候是1萬5,840元，那時醫事放射師的薪水就是三萬多元。今年的最低工資是2萬8,590元，這個時候醫事放射師的薪水還是一樣三萬多元。這是上網看的徵人廣告，時間都是上個月，左上角的那家醫院我不好意思說在哪裡，那家醫院薪水就是3萬0,937元。左下角的醫院是3萬3,000元到3萬7,000元之間。最近大家一直在吵，也非常重視護理薪資很低的問題，殊不知醫事放射師的薪資是更低的，我很熱心的換算了一下，他們的時薪每個小時平均是129元。大家知道目前最低時薪是多少嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
呂次長建德：190元。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
陳委員瑩：對，190元，所以這些醫事放射師不如去50嵐打工賣飲料，還有每個小時190元可以賺，而且又不用暴露在輻射的風險，多好！所以你看這樣人會不會都跑光光？你們可以回頭去看一下，主修這個科系的人畢業之後有多少比率是從事這樣的工作？看一下就知道了，非常低啊！次長，維持這樣的水準，搞不好沒多久，他們連起薪都要被最低工資超越了。我想一個通過國家考試、具有專業證照的醫事專業人員，領的薪水竟然跟基本工資差不多，甚至平均起來時薪還比在50嵐賣飲料打工的人還低，這樣合理嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
呂次長建德：因為這不是我業管，但是以我自己個人來看，老實說，委員說的這件事情是讓我滿訝異的，說真的有點偏低。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
陳委員瑩：這個問題跟你有沒有督導這個業務無關，持平來看一下這個薪資水準就很清楚。次長，你知道在疫情期間醫事放射師是第一線接觸病患，為病患提供準確照攝服務的工作人員，但是他們並沒有獲得任何的危險補助，其他醫護人員都有，為何獨獨漏掉他們？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
陳代理副司長青梅：謝謝委員的關切。如果是在COVID-19的時候，事實上政府對於醫護人員、醫事人員的支持是有兩部分：一個叫做津貼補助；一個叫獎勵金。獎勵金的部分，醫院就會根據他們參與的程度，核撥給院內的員工，所以獎勵金的部分應該會有。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
陳委員瑩：他們實際上到底有沒有領到，你也可以去了解一下。獎勵金和危險補助是不太一樣的，且他們起薪三萬多元，又要暴露在游離輻射和病毒細菌的感染風險中，他們領的薪水幾乎是所有醫事人員最低的水準。所以本席要在這裡很嚴肅的提醒衛福部，這樣對待你們第一線的工作人員其實是相當不公平的。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][1] |
另外，有一位自稱是一位心痛為孩子忡忡憂心的媽媽，這是兩年前他寫信給中華民國醫事放射師公會全聯會的信件，他希望杜理事長可以幫忙。這位媽媽將醫事放射師的職業困境做了一個詮釋，主要提到放射師職缺少、薪水被醫院壓得很低、人力又被刪減，美其名是考取一個高考的放射師執照等等。這個媽媽等了兩年，終於有機會輾轉透過本席再把這個信件轉給主管機關衛福部。目前賴總統的健康台灣政策要減少臺灣罹癌人數的增加，更要提早發現來減少罹癌的死亡人數，這些都需要醫事放射師提供準確的機器，讓電腦斷層掃描和磁振造影的操作。因為精準、貴重的儀器設備都非常需要他們的專業去操作，但醫事司居然用牴觸母法的函釋來開後門，要求醫事放射師打對比劑，還有直腸氣球處置的侵入性醫療行為。我講到這些，你們不要否認，說絕對沒有這種情形發生！甚至也不要像有些人說北部的醫院沒有，都是中南部醫院的事情！我覺得你們要好好去了解，我也不是這種專業，但是我卻知道了這個事情，我也不可能憑空捏造出來。像你們都只有提供邊際勞工的薪資待遇給他們，次長，我覺得這其實是一種歧視特定專業的行為，不要這樣不清不楚，不重視他們的勞動權益。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][2] |
再來，次長知道勞動部的勞工職災保險有做職災勞工的職業重建的工作嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
呂次長建德：我知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
陳委員瑩：你不知道沒關係，就當作是一個新知識的吸收。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
呂次長建德：這我知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
陳委員瑩：你怎麼那麼聰明，什麼都知道。這些工作裡面有一塊很重要的復工計畫，就是用職災保險基金來補助事業單位的雇主聘僱職災勞工，給勞工30%到70%的薪資補助。所以我要在這裡具體建議，應該將菸捐的部分用來提升第一線的檢測癌症篩檢的醫事放射師人員的薪資，讓菸捐的使用更加合理。我想這項用途一定比你們業務單位不編列公務預算，反而用基金更有說服力，甚至比提供給民間團體，例如最有名、最強的董氏基金會對於業務及薪資的使用更有意義。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][1] |
最後提醒，不要忘了你們的加熱菸要開放所增加的菸捐金額是非常龐大的，菸捐的使用以及醫事放射師薪資水準的調升，衛福部是不是可以好好的規劃，次長怎麼看這個事情？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
呂次長建德：報告委員，誠如委員剛剛所說的，菸捐的部分其實在本部裡面基本上有一個配置，我覺得剛剛委員的建議相當好，是不是容許我帶回去跟部長報告？這個部分我覺得確實朝委員剛才建議的方向，我覺得這個確實是福國利民的，加熱菸的議題大家也都非常關心，我覺得這應該要積極來處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
陳委員瑩：請你們兩週內把相關規劃以書面提供給本席，當然，菸捐也要落實收到，我們才有可能落實後面講的這些事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
呂次長建德：沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
陳委員瑩：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
呂次長建德：感謝委員指導。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
主席：我剛剛幫你查了區域醫院協會。放射師起薪差不多4萬5,000元，每個月的加給和大小夜加一加，差不多五萬多元。在COVID-19期間，只要有去幫別人照片子，1個月加1萬元，所以那兩、三年有去報的都是12萬元、12萬元，不過還是偏低。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
陳委員瑩：確實還有醫院起薪是三萬多元。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
主席：我剛才是查區域醫院協會，地區醫院是不是有差一點？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
陳委員瑩：區域醫院不多。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
主席：80幾家，醫學中心應該高一點點，不過跑到新加坡去，臺灣的放射師到新加坡一個月薪水差不多16萬元到18萬元。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][1] |
陳培瑜委員改書面質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][2] |
鄭天財委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][3] |
請鄭正鈐委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
120 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-3-26-4 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳昭姿 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
林淑芬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
楊曜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
黃捷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-03-27 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1143301 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1143301_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、國家發展委員會、教育部、法務部針對「少子女化衝擊，如何營造
友善托育環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1143301_00001 |