| IVOD_ID |
15971 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15971 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
23 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-30T08:31:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-30T12:39:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:07:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d1dc129ce818bd328b6918ac9a81339753be8d109af184be44836e440ccf81baa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:01 - 12:39:00 |
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報告委員會出席委員10人以主法定人數我們現在開始開會請醫事人員宣讀上次會議事錄 |
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1802.711 |
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1823.671 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第22次全體委員會議一事錄時間中華民國113年5月29日星期三上午9時1分至12時36分地點紅樓301會議室出席委員盧敏林等10人內席委員賴世寶等15人請教委員林益君內席人員國家安全局 |
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1824.191 |
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1851.069 |
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．局長蔡明彥及所屬人員．外交部政務次長田中光．大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑．主席馬昭及委員文君．報告事項．依宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定．二,邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥．外交部大陸委員會報告．第16屆總統就職後．國際及兩岸情勢發展．對我國安之影響．並備質詢國家安全局局長蔡明彥．外交部政務次長田中光．及大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑報告 |
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1852.17 |
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1880.94 |
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委員盧美玲等15人質詢．均由國家安全局局長蔡明彥．外交部政務次長田忠光．及大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑等即席答覆決定一登記質詢在場委員均應發言完畢報告及詢答結束二委員所提口頭及書面質詢未及答覆或要求提供之資訊請相關機關於二周內以書面答覆本會全體委員並複製本會委員令指定期限者從其鎖定三委員林益君及楊瓊英等二人所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報 |
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1881.54 |
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1896.951 |
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宣讀完畢我們稍後再確認那請議事人員宣讀報告事項報告事項 邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況．並備質詢宣讀完畢我們現在介紹在場委員首先介紹陳永康委員 |
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1912.113 |
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1939.558 |
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接下來介紹與會的官員．有外交部．林佳龍林部長．亞東太平洋司藍夏里藍司長．亞西及非洲司賀忠義賀司長．歐洲司黃軍耀黃司長．北美司王良玉王司長．拉美及加勒比海司鄭麗成鄭司長 |
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1943.25 |
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1966.576 |
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條約法律司聯建成聯司長國際組織司李冠德副司長國際合作及經濟事務司聯育平聯司長國際傳播司徐永梅徐司長研究設計會張雅光主任李斌處李志強處長秘書處洪振榮洪處長 |
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1971.758 |
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1980.28 |
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人事處 黃麗玲 黃處長政風處 周志信 周處長主計處 李佩華 李處長資訊及電務處 林啟文 林處長公眾外交協調會 劉永健 執行長非政府組織國際事務會 陳剛毅 執行長臨時事務局 何振環 何局長 |
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2001.397 |
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2029.226 |
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外交及國際事務學院李新穎副院長臺灣日本關係協會范振國秘書長臺灣美國事務委員會薛美宇秘書長財團法人國際合作發展基金會石立軍副秘書長財團法人國際合作發展基...抱歉財團法人臺灣民主基金會代理執行長廖達祺廖執行長 |
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2031.856 |
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2038.083 |
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財團法人﹐太平洋經濟合作理事會﹐中華民國委員會﹐許俊斌秘書長 |
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2054.417 |
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2063.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們現在確認議事錄請問在場委員對於上次會議事錄有遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處沒有那我們議事錄確定本日會議邀請新任外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況．並備質詢請林部長上臺報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2090.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2118.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士先生、大家早安今天是我上任外交部長第一次向貴委員會報告外交施政計畫深感榮幸首先要感謝大院和各位委員對外交工作的支持書面報告請各位委員參閱以下就重點做口頭的說明、敬請指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2120.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2148.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
從今年出總統大選到520總統就職典禮國際共有73個訪問團和687位貴賓來台祝賀這展現了國際社會對台灣又一次完成民主選舉的支持也充分彰顯台灣德不孤必有靈過去8年來在踏實外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2150.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2172.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
的一個方向上已經奠定了良好的基礎臺灣也成為了國際可信賴的夥伴期待未來信賴外交將讓臺灣獲得更多的理念相近的國際友人的支持今後本人也將帶領外交團隊全力推動價值外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2173.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2192.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
以民主和平與繁榮來深化台灣的國際連結建立民主安全及經貿共同體來鞏固邦交的關係以及強化與友好國家的實質關係讓世界上架台灣開創價值外交的新時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2193.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2219.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們將以價值外交為導向整合跨部會國際合作業務搭配科技與經貿外交結合台灣科技產業優勢提供國際社會所需要的各種解決方案強化國際鏈結對區域和國際做出貢獻不僅是台灣can help而能夠做到台灣can lead |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2220.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2246.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們也要善用國家軟實力來推動公眾外交和加強國際傳播展現台灣是世界民主同盟的良善力量和全球可信賴的夥伴傳達台灣為國際民主盟友的和平形象近年來國際局勢及地人政治變動非常的劇烈威權政體河流擴張台灣不管是在自由開放社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2248.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2259.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
產業經濟發展以及台海的安全等各方面都面臨更多的挑戰例如中國上週又在台灣周邊進行軍演 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2261.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2279.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
威脅台灣民主和破壞現況令人遺憾此外中國也持續在國際上透過扭曲聯大2758號決議的方式來鞏固其所謂的一中原則企圖消滅我主權孤立台灣於國際社會之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2280.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2302.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
面對這些艱困的處境,無論是強化我國與友盟的關係,還是展現台灣的良善力量,都需要透過外交來達成而台灣的國際處境又極為特殊,故本能深感責任重大,自當戰戰兢兢,全力以赴此外,本部當前施政計畫主要由以下八個面向 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2303.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2315.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第一深化鞏固邦交關係邦交國是臺灣最親近的朋友我們樂於願意來協助友邦發展本部將建議賴總統適時出訪以增進情誼並強化互信 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2322.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2344.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
為深化邦誼我們將逐步提高我國政府開發協助就是ODA占國民所得毛額的比例並且增加與美國、日本、澳洲等理念相近國家在我國友邦的工作上的合作另外我們也將擴大對邦交國的人才訓練並計劃在兩年內將本部台灣獎學金相關計劃的錄取名額備增 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2352.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2378.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
提升與我理念相近及友好國家的關係目前我國在全球共有111個外館布局全球無論是鄰近的亞洲、大洋洲以及遠距到美洲、歐洲與非洲等地我們將繼續提升與美日歐等理念相近國家以及其他友好國家的關係同時擴展與非洲、中東及拉丁美洲國家的友誼 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2379.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2401.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這些詳細的部分請參閱書面報告的舉例說明第三點擴大國際參與並做出具體貢獻我們將以價值外交為導向爭取參與功能性國際組織也將深化參與已經加入的政府間國際組織此外我們將具體傳達台灣是全球民主盟友中 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2402.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2412.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
首位世界和平第一官的形象尤其要爭取更多國際支持加強反制中國錯誤詮釋聯大第2758號決議以及將其連結所謂的一中原則用來打壓我國主權的這種企圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2421.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2435.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
強化與擴大台灣與全球產經鏈結以全球產業供應鏈角度來看台灣有實力成為經濟日落國我們將結合台灣半導體和ICT產業推動五大信賴產業供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2437.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2451.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
智慧城市與系統整合方案的訴出加強實質合作我們也將持續爭取加入跨太平洋夥伴全面進步協定就是CPTPP等區域經濟整合機制推動洽簽各項雙邊協議同時深化擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2455.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2476.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
全球合作暨訓練架構就是GCTF的這個平台在深化與新南向國家關係方面我們還要強化與理念相近國家在經貿科技上的合作並將新南向政策升級為數位新南向運用臺灣直通訊和智慧製造的優勢提供智慧程式 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2478.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2492.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
創新服務方案藉以聯結印太地區的重要夥伴提升我國優質國際形象本部將善用台灣軟實力在推動公眾外交方面我們將落實賴總統提出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2493.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2518.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
百億青年海外圓夢計畫．並推出相關配套方案．在加強國際宣傳方面．我們將宣揚台灣價值．擴大國際能見度．積極推動數位外交．打造國家品牌．並藉大型國際活動．如配合今年在法國的巴黎奧運．以及明年在日本的大阪世博．擴大國際 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2520.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2532.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
的一個宣傳台灣第6點加強結合及整合民間與政府各部門外交能量我們會推動成立跨部會經貿外交專案小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2533.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2552.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
導引各部會外交主流化協助我國五大信賴產業布局海外此外我們也將持續推動國際非政府組織來台設點使台灣成為印太地區的重要據點提升為民服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2553.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2567.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
的效能與品質提升為民服務效能與品質始終都是外交部工作的重點未來能將秉持依法行政追求效率變民服務等原則以同理心來提供國人最優質的服務第8點 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2569.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2590.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
強化外交同仁跨領域專業與職能尤其在經貿與科技領域的專業能力另外也將擴大外管的區域性專業功能跟角色多元推動人權外交、科技外交、文化外交、城市外交、國會外交、環境外交、體育外交與原住民外交等 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2591.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2619.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
臺灣新世界世界新臺灣展望未來本部將全力推動價值外交讓臺灣成為民主世界的要角世界和平的舵手以及全球繁榮的推手來落實臺灣can help and Taiwan can lead當臺灣走向世界也歡迎世界走進臺灣相信在國人和政府的持續共同努力以及相關部會的通力合作下特別是立法院的一個指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2621.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2632.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
推動．我相信人人都是外交官．部部都是外交部．未來台灣外交將一步一腳印．既往開來．為台灣外交開展新局．以上報告敬請指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2642.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2658.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
現在開始詢答本會委員8加2分鐘﹖非本會委員6分鐘﹖10點30分發言登記截止﹖若有臨時提案請於10點30分之前提出﹖11點左右是詢答情形進行處理﹖現在請沈博洋委員上臺諮詢好 又請部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2671.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2672.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
請部長部長好委員長很高興今天第一個質詢當然因為在這個在招卸部長的時候在這一段時間我們其實質詢了蠻多相關的問題所以我先稍微重整一下然後再往下我覺得有一個big picture那因為畢竟我們這個預算會期也快到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2700.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2722.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我覺得對立法委員來講要怎麼看預算能不能夠滑在島口上是一件重要的事情所以我們大概在今天最主要的是想要問整個整體戰略上的一個問題那在之前的質詢裡面我們不斷的跟外交部強調就是說外交部他一定有必須要接觸的對象那這個對象可以分成最上面的這個政府跟國會那我們立法委員其實自己也是外交的一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2725.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2741.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
2、針對比較中間的智庫、學界、公民組織那時候我們在質詢的時候也一直在強調不是說我們在接觸外國的公民組織而已還包含現在INGO要怎麼在台灣落地等等的問題那最後當然就是面對社會大眾那這個也是最困難的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2741.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2758.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
所以在之前的質詢也有特別提醒就是現在以中國來講他們針對這個社會大眾做的是特別多他們想要藉由社會大眾反過來去影響到他們的政府跟國會所以才會有上次用TikTok打電話等等的事件所以這個大概是在我們之前的質詢的幾個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2760.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2783.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
因為接下來要進入到預算所以我們現在比較想要知道的就是說我們除了這些面對的對象之外我們目前是針對哪一些領域在做因為畢竟外交的領域太多了所以像剛剛有提到價值外交那我們可能有這個學術外交各式各樣的所以在這一邊我是認為說畢竟我們現在面臨中國的威脅是最多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2784.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2805.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那在面臨中國的威脅之下呢這是我們以前在民間的時候去整理就是中國他在這個其他的國家不同的層面的滲透的狀況那這不同層面總共有九個不同的層面我就不一一說那但是呢我們目前來講外交部當然是著重在最右下角的這個外交的部分但就像剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2806.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2806.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
外交部長林佳龍報告業務概況 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2824.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2825.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2844.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2845.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
美國最嚴重的是學術 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2870.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2889.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
所以也就是說假設我們今天在針對美國在做任何外交行動的時候當然包含我們剛剛跟政府啊等等之類的但很明顯他在學術的被滲透是最嚴重那如果我們作為對中國的一個反制措施我們可能要針對學術要多做加強這就是一種但另外一個我覺得比較妙的地方就是比如說以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2890.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2896.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
在這三個月之內我們在觀察這個外交現況的時候我們發現一件事情就是現在中國不是只有在針對他本來很強的部分做他反而會針對比較弱的地方去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2916.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2943.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
比如說他針對這個國家學術做得不夠他反而這幾個月尤其是在520之前他反而是特別針對弱的地方在做不強所以簡單來講呢我會認為說我們今天在針對外交的這一個抵抗或者說我們在交朋友的這個過程當中我們除了針對中國做的很多很強的地方要反制之外他沒做好的地方他現在反而是花最多資源因為中國也想要把他們的資源花在刀口上 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2944.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2967.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
所以這個大概是我們現在的一個whole picture那我相信外交部有自己的戰略判斷我們這邊只是拿民間有做的所以這不代表是正確的外交部自己在外管的判斷應該還是最正確的但我們到最後在接下來的會期我們會想要知道譬如說我們在這個國家的判斷是在哪個地方不足在哪個地方其實是中國做最多那我們就可能要針對那個地方做加強這大概是我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2968.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2983.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
之前的質詢在講的這個問題那接下來我就進入到一個比較細節的部分第一個就是奧地利就是因為最近的新聞奧地利就是不承認我們的駕照這個很麻煩就是因為在歐洲開車有時候是你一下開到德國一下開到奧地利然後一下又開到德國 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2984.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2999.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以會變成說你到一半的時候會變無照駕駛那這個部分呢因為畢竟他是跟剛剛講的執法相關那當然2758號決議是大的是跟國際比較相關那我現在想知道的事情說像這件事情它發生是屬於因為官方不承認 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3000.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3020.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
還是屬於在比如說只是因為地方的租車公司他因為把我們列為中國的一省所以呢我們沒有辦法在這邊被承認所以就沒有辦法運作因為這兩個方向差蠻多的一個是比較官方的一個是屬於像航空公司啊把我們列為的這個一省的這個問題所以不知道目前就這個方向的掌握是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3021.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3032.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
謝謝委員我們當然會先做溝通協調基於外交也是對等互惠所以如果對方是基於政治的原因我們同樣也會採取反應也就是互相承認跟互相都不承認但是因為奧地利畢竟 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3042.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3054.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
他還是一個民主的國家我相信在歐盟裡面經過大家的一個充分的討論我們當然希望既然歐盟是整合希望大家能夠在這裡面能夠這個交通能夠暢順以外也能夠國際間的駕照的一個相互的一個承認跟使用所以我們會先來確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3070.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3091.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
這問題出在哪裡?但是我們也有對應的措施因為我覺得如果他是跟官方有關的可能還尚且簡單因為畢竟可以跟官方溝通怕就是怕說他是個別的公司那個別的公司如果我們真的要去影響的話變成是我們對他們整體社會文化的影響到什麼程度那跟我們在地的媒體跟我們的宣傳等等之類的就會有高度的相關所以希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3092.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3118.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
這個部分到底是往哪個方向希望未來有一個掌握就是之後我們再來追這一題那當然再來就是它的手段是什麼我也覺得很重要因為畢竟對於威脅這件事情對於影響這件事情來講它可能是威脅也有可能是利誘那到底中國在奧地利是利誘做得比較多還是威脅做得比較多這個說真的我們現在在霧裡看花啦那我之前看到這個5月24的時候也就是大概一個禮拜前 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3119.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3140.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我們發現就是有一些新聞報導澳地利的一些特工他是專門在搜集這些機密資訊給俄羅斯的情報機構然後他去搶試圖協助俄羅斯的特工去搶劫一名試圖曝光俄羅斯間諜的一個外國記者的公寓所以很明顯的就是在他們的這個國會裡面也開始注意到 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3141.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3156.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
這個雖然不是跟中國有關,但很明顯的是,因為利用說真的可能要花太多錢了,這種事情對他們來講,比較簡單。所以呢,如果說這種威脅的情勢已經在跟俄羅斯的合作發生之下,我認為中國可能也不遑多讓,那這可能是在奧地利我們必須要去注意的問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3157.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3158.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
澳洲大使館 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3188.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3206.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
中共這些作為是戰狼外交的一部分也引起反彈在一個民主的社會國會議員他在做國際交流或參加一些活動基本上是被保障的而中共的這種極權統治還是甚至跨 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3207.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3210.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
臺灣未來未能夠跟理念相近的國家就是因為我們是在第一線遭受到這樣的一個打壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3233.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3248.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那現在中國的這種威權的擴張已經是在全世界所以已經造成全世界很大的反彈甚至剛剛提到了包括在像法國英國等等歐洲這些國家他們甚至滲透到他們的這些民意機關裡面去 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3249.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3264.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
至於說在整個社群媒體上他發動的這種法律戰、輿論戰、心理戰是無所不在台灣的經驗很能夠分享包括民間你們在從事的這些事情也就是現在必須做一個總和外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3265.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3291.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
因為外交是內政的延伸所以中共怎麼統治中國它就想要去擴張影響世界所以這個時候台灣不但不是麻煩製造者我們是解決問題的鑰匙對台灣的經驗的分享跟各國的交流而這個我相信透過剛剛提到的總和外交就部部都是外交部人人都是外交官我們一定要做整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3291.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3314.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
因為現在已經是一個這個可以說是AIOT這個智慧物聯網的時代所以中共的這一些拓展包括透過TITO或其他的這一些社群媒體也是大家現在在做所謂的Cyber Security或者是說所謂的這個資安跟韌性沒有台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3316.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3344.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
就有缺口,參加世界衛生組織,國際民航的組織,或者是氣候公約的這些組織,乃至於這個國際警政,這個有關於這方面的組織,沒有台灣,那世界就沒有辦法得到很安全的環境,而中共對台灣的打壓是損人不利己,所以他作為一個麻煩製造者,是大家的困擾,所以我們一起來面對跟因應。 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3345.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3363.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
主席抱歉再給我30秒就是說謝謝部長提出總和外交的概念因為我剛在問這個問題的時候像奧地利他如果不給我們駕照我們很簡單的平等互惠我們大不了就是讓他們來這邊也不能使用駕照但是當他們在做這些威脅的行動的時候我們不可能反制跟他們做一樣的事情畢竟我們是民主國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3364.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3381.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
所以在總和外交的概念之上我們在反制的時候呢我們可能可以用本來在這個總和外交的概念裡面的其他的手段來做反制這是我們民主國家能夠做的事情但是我們能夠反制的清單到底有哪些可能是必須要更快速的盤點因為接下來他們的速度可能只會越來越快 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3382.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3403.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
如果說我們在第一個禮拜或是說在第一時間沒有做出反制措施的話他會覺得以後在外交上的打壓沒有成本所以這個部分對我們來講是重要的那以及對於民眾的溝通這就是這個我們在後面這個本來今天要講的就是比如說像聯合早報他們在新加坡那一邊只要看這個報紙他們對中國的想法其實會有非常不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3404.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3404.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
羅美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3431.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3431.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
林佳龍議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3442.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3468.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
部長早部長我剛剛聽了您的這個業務報告基本上我們新政府也就是賴清德總統的這個價值外交其實就是延續我們賴我們蔡英文總統的務實外交那其中也包含了新南向政策那剛剛部長您有提到就是說新南向政策要升級我們要以這個數位新南向來加強跟這個印太 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3471.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3471.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3498.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3501.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
蘇維西南巷是我們從過去單純的商品的買賣其實現在我們要賣的其實就是服務那部長您曾經就有提到就是說像蘇維西南巷我們有鎖定了泰國馬來西亞越南同時我們還要佈局印尼 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3516.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3516.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3535.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3562.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
最少是18個國家有3個區塊東協南亞跟澳紐但東協我們目前還包括馬來西亞那菲律賓也是一個重點只是因為我當時不是主管機關是我就我自己過去比較熟悉的國家那以馬來西亞來講他們跟台灣的合作很互補有將近10萬名的留台的學生的校友 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3563.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3570.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這個是其他國家所沒有像智慧醫療在那個地方因為他們很多在臺灣留學生就是醫藥醫療方面所以這個就是他的強項那怎麼一國一中心我們可以落實在那裡我們會現在因為在外交部我當然會全面的針對新南向國家都來對應有我們可以對接的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3586.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3589.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
馬來西亞的這個橋上政策其實馬來西亞這邊已經來台的這個歷史有60幾年就像剛剛部長所講的回到馬來西亞區的這個橋上大概有10萬人左右而且早期有很多都是來台灣念這個醫學院 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3607.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3607.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
請部長多敘述這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3630.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3656.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
泰國因為它比較是跟整個市場經濟還有相當的法治是比較成熟所以在那邊投資有相對應的保障那最近因為有中國供應鏈的移轉大概以泰國跟越南是最大所以這個就是隨著我們台商這個供應鏈它的佈局那泰國它也是很國際化的一個地方人口也多 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3657.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3687.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
臺灣﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3693.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3708.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
臺灣輸出,不只是製造,是服務,這樣子的整合之後對他智慧城市的轉型,特別是曼谷市長很重視,這個就是我們會有切入點,就是策略,所以泰國他是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3709.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3735.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
也是就是說這個東協方面一個國際化程度最高的城市那從這裡他又11C東部經濟走廊他們國家的政府的政策想要走的方向剛好也是我們台灣這幾年走的比如5加2產業創新六大核心戰略產業所以我們整體輸出軟硬結合那某種程度的系統整合的解決方案像我們的亞洲矽谷的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3737.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3758.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
大概已經有將近200多項都有成功其中100項是輸出這對他們這些國家來講就是台灣經驗不但沒有紅色供應鏈的問題台灣的競爭力物美價廉很多的社會條件也比較相近所以在影響力上面反而比美國日本等國還要大 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3761.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3761.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
林佳龍報告業務概況 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3792.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3792.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
新南向政策8年以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3807.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3810.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
新南向的這個升級呢跟這個新南向國家呢有更多更多的這個連結那除了剛剛我們所提到的這個所謂的數的新南向之外呢那在對新南向的部分我們新政府還有未來還有沒有其他的這個方針比如說可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3837.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3865.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
在這裡面我們沒有提到的,未來我們還有沒有其他的這個想法?是,我們也在就是要推出新南向基金,來幫助我們臺灣經驗的輸出,可以有不管是投資融資的基金,因為我們在中東歐以民主任性國家,我們現在進行了不錯的,不管是捷克,斯洛伐克,立陶宛,甚至擴張到波蘭, |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3866.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3889.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那這種模式跟以前的原著是不太一樣這是共同來繁榮而且不是只是我們產品要輸出而是落地和服務所以這個是政策工具所以我們外交我想總和外交或價值外交就要創造價值那創造價值不是透過政府的資源因為民間的資源無窮像台商像很多的這個僑民 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3891.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3913.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
至少包括留學生甚至很多的移工還有甚至觀光客的往來其實都是很好的媒介所以因為地緣上跟我們就近那臺灣的經驗對他們來講又是最想學習的我們也有整套的所以我現在舉這個例子就我們的政策工具在盤點這是為什麼我們會建議行政院要成立一個跨部會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3914.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3923.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
現在台灣的處境其實外交的工作絕對不是只有外交部的事情應該是跨部會一起來做努力還有一點時間部長我想請教一下剛剛你有提到說巴黎奧運馬上就要開幕不到兩個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3938.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3940.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
在3月初的時候像這個羽球界被視為奧運會測試賽的超級750系列法國羽球公開賽那時候我們的選手在巴黎的時候有發現就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3954.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3954.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3971.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3987.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
巴黎在外國網站指出巴黎在他們統計的453個城市當中安全指數是排名在300名以下所以我們這些選手的安全狀況是令人擔憂的請問我們外管這邊有沒有做加強或是調派人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3991.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4011.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
有我們會來加強當然除了外交部我們外管之外教育部因為體育署另外就是中華奧會對於選手的安全包括甚至旁邊在服務的以前我們可能有一些外包那裡面有沒有一些這個這個安全的一些查核都很重要那這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4013.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4030.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
當然吳志忠大使我也請他留到奧運舉辦完之後再返臺他是前線指揮官也要坐鎮在那邊所以我們跟法國方面也是有很好的一個聯繫透過他們的政府也來協助有關於安全的維護對我們的選手可以讓他無後顧之憂 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4038.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4038.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
韓國瑜議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4067.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4068.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
有請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4089.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4113.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我知道你是一個外交能手對外交的一些基本的一個推動我想你是一個可以相信的一個外交高手那今天我們講一個過去從我們吳前這個部長所推動的外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4115.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4141.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
被稱為統稱叫斷交外交部長所以我希望在你任內不要變成為斷交部長因為我們希望的是在維持我們在國際間的國際地位包含我們國際的認同所以對外交是一個非常很重視的一個外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4142.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4159.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
今天我們訪觀我們看一下新上任的我們的賴總統我也希望有助於我們外交部拓展整個國際間的地位這是非常重要如果我們今天的賴總統對這個兩岸的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4166.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4188.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
老是處在一個緊張的一個狀況之下就變成回頭過來對外交的推動是一個很大的一個考驗所以這個部長你要思考這樣的一個方向未來你可能會很多的要突破很多的一些困境今天講的是一個價值外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4190.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4211.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
價值外交待會我要提到的是價值外交裡面應該要融入原名外交原名外交未來的政府在外交著作這個外交的價值外交中價值指的是什麼那本席看到今天這個外交部所提出的這個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4214.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4239.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
價值外交內容提到要以民主和平繁榮來深化臺灣的國際連結所以外交部所謂的價值就是只有民主和平繁榮嗎那另外就是價值的面向很廣外交部不要自我限縮在政治面或經濟意識形態上只要找到共通性 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4241.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4260.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
都可以作為價值的內容外交上次我特別有跟吳前部長特別提到原民的外交因為原民的外交在我們臺灣的原住民是屬於南島以西的民主的國家民主的南島以西人 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4261.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4281.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
如果按照連結整個南島嶼系的整個國家整個國家總共人口數就2.5億的人口數這相當龐大的一個人口數所以如果我們今天著重在這個南島嶼系的做一個連結外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4283.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4298.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
是不是也可以讓原住民有無認所或是有認所的外交來做一個連結讓我們在目前困境的一個國家現在你看馬上要面臨什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4300.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4304.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
我相信部長你有智慧 即面對這樣危機的時候便轉機 原民外交就是一個重點 我想聽聽你的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4321.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4332.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
是,謝謝委員提醒,確實,原民外交是台灣走和出去,而且這個是符合現在整個普世的價值。 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4333.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4351.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那這個在南島方面特別是太平洋方面所以相關的國際組織或合作計畫我們要積極來參與那有關於包括南島民族論壇、太平洋島國論壇或過去所辦過我們要做一個檢視我們怎麼樣積極來參與甚至我們可以倡議 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4354.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4375.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
臺灣也可以作為一個這樣的一個平臺啊因為來連結我們過去我們外交的資源在多著重在論壇的方面但是實質上有沒有進一步的能夠變成一個建交的實質上的一個建交國這是一個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4376.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4389.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
因為我們訪問一下台灣是南歐以西分化及擴散的源頭那包含夏威夷群島、越南南部、菲律賓、馬來群島 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4392.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4409.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
東到復活節島西到馬加斯加島南到紐西蘭全都是南島語系總共的人口數就2.5億的人口在太平洋島嶼則有100萬人口所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4413.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4431.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
在這個價值的外交的核心裡面那麼也應該把原住民的外交要把它切入到裡面作為你這一次接任外交部的一個重點我希望看到一個成績好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4432.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4444.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
報告委員我有寫進去那個外交部的業務報告裡面原住民的外交原住民的外交因為我們本來就是一個南島共同體嘛是因為我希望說在這個過程因為現在的國際情勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4450.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4466.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
臺灣要走出去現在目前就是因為國際情勢包含兩岸之間現在對岸不斷對我們臺灣的外交一直在壓制限縮我們的國際外交所以這個就是要如何去突破 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4467.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4480.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
因為剛剛我提到這些南島以西的共同體的一個國家也應該推派推認我們未來原名外交的無認所或是有認所你覺得有沒有必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4481.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4497.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
跟委員報告到520因為是上一任的總統是有無人鎖大使是由原名來擔任是啊是那已經新的還在現在已經過了一段時間了部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4497.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4523.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
因為現在我要你的是直接的回答因為這是你現在要接任這個外交部長你要自己本身的主張主張就是要有一個魄力我現在如何把外交能夠在國際間奠定了我們的核心價值包含它的價值的外交這是一個重點你看我們反觀我們過去在前任的部長裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4524.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4542.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
在歐洲跟外交的關係情況持平穩定成長還是已經有警訊雖然我國在歐洲僅有教廷的一個邦交國但外交部這幾年對歐洲的著力點非常大 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4544.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4555.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這個外交部歐洲司的預算逐年增加就可以看出歐洲司的各年度的預算一直在不斷的增加109年8400億110年1.6億111年1.9億112年2.1億 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4567.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4584.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
一百一十三年升高到五點七億這幾年在歐洲的外交投注到一度引起邦交國的眼紅例如二零二年我國在南美洲唯一的邦交國 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4586.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4613.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
在其總統表示臺灣在非邦交國的投資超過60億美元我們想要有10億美元是在巴拉圭投資還有助於我們建立以臺灣的戰略戰略關係的聯盟我國雖然在歐洲投資這麼多的資源但最近看來外交部情況似乎不太好例如一本業 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4614.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4632.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
本月初習近平對法國一口氣與法國共同發布4項聯合聲明18項政府間合作協議第二奧地利突然宣布拒絕承認我國的國際護照第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4633.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4657.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
即將卸任的歐盟外長受訪的時候,歐盟既既定其立場即不承認臺灣的國家地位未來也不會這樣做。第四,立陶宛總統可能將我代表出改名。第五,上同教廷主動向中國大陸表達希望能在北京成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4658.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4659.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4674.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4697.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
當然外交的攻防彼此確實是警訊我們要非常注意其實起早的預警跟因應是非常關鍵的我們一方面也在擴展但是有一些也要守得住所以剛剛提到的這五項我們都會特別來注意其他方面所謂價值外交就是創造台灣的價值可以讓這些跟我們交往的國家因台灣而更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4703.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4714.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我覺得這種的理念跟作為包括原住民的外交因為很多這個文明的社會對於原住民族或少數族群他是視為資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4716.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4716.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4734.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4737.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
所以現在就是把價值外交著重在原命外交這是一個非常好的一個策略為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4757.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4779.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
因為我們台灣的最貴最價值的資產就是原住民啊原住民有豐富的價值文化跟智慧都在這裡那為什麼不好好的善用這個原民的外交然後變成你核心跟他的價值的外交好不好以上這是提供給部長一個參考我們一起來努力謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4788.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4788.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
馬文鈞委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4812.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4839.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
委員好就這一次因為今天非常多的委員大家也關切了非常多我們在外交還有目前的處境上面那其實到目前為止我們的幫交過越來越少這也是我們現在可能要面臨的一個困境在吳釗燮部長現在的國安會的秘書長他 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4840.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4842.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
跟委員報告可以說是哪兩個嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4861.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4889.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
每一個邦交國我們都很重視我覺得我們知道從故邦到龍邦比如這一次我們以瓜地馬拉來講他的總統派了外交部長來外界有報導他們總統就又召開了視訊會議跟我們賴總統就是要來澄清外面可能的一些錯誤他們外交部長到了日本之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4890.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4918.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
又發表了共同對台灣的支持結果我們現在看到瓜地馬拉的這個咖啡跟夏威夷豆有七個貨櫃啊就是現在進不了中國像這個時候我們就是把它當作自己的事情就像之前的立陶宛一樣我是舉這個例子就是說除了預警以外啊我們怎麼樣用總和外交的力量來讓這些國家覺得跟台灣的交往還是長久之道 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4919.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4919.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4947.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4966.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
因為時間的關係就是說我們可能用很多的方式或者可以讓我們的邦交國感受到我們可能才是可以長久交往的一個對象一個邦交的國家我們可能會有很多的方式我們現在只是比較關切的因為過去實在減損了太多的邦交國 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4972.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4972.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
：文貴議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5002.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5024.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我覺得每個國家都要顧好而且我打算除了他們來我們也要去我們希望大概就這個部分我們大概現在只剩下12個要怎麼好好的去兼顧那可能也是未來林部長的考驗跟要努力的方向因為我們邦交國畢竟是 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5026.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5038.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
為一能夠在很多的國際場合上面或者可以實質的替我們提案發言等等他們才有實質的效果這些還是非常的重要那在這裡也要請教部長就我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5043.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5061.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
一般來說有很多的民眾也有這樣的感受我們對對岸就是中共我們的態度越來越強硬可是我們對很多其他的國家我們反而會有一些退讓或怯懦甚至讓大家覺得是怯懦 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5073.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5091.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
其實是沒有得到的反而好像是我們付出的比較多所以在這個部分比如說像有很多的免簽像有很多我們的參訪其實他們都會受制於很多政治的或其他的考量或國家利益的考量其實他對我們並不是像我們這樣因為我們口口聲聲說要對等所以其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5097.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5121.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我們應該是不是也要像其他國家一樣以國家的利益還有我們未來的和平發展各方面的面向去考量這樣我們整個台灣現在的處境還有中華民國在對外的時候其實他才有更廣更遠還有更長還有可能更長治久安的這樣的一個方向可以遵循 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5122.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5139.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
是,確實啦,外交也有它現實的一面就是要互惠互利嘛那比如說以泰國來講,它現在延長對台灣的免簽就是因為我們也是有這個關紅專案嘛那這個就是一個逐漸在累積啊,更多的一個互信的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5140.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5156.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
那至於說對方強硬有時候是因為中共的因素因為在中國周邊國家都受到他很多的影響這個時候我們也了解可是比如我講數位新南向臺灣除了是去紅供應鏈我們的解決方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5157.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5171.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我們5G在台灣實施的一個創新的這種應用的服務的成果就可以幫他解決他國家的問題所以我是覺得提升台灣的價值來創造這一些跟我們交往國家他的價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5172.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5182.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
這個價值不是只有現實的利益還有很多文化還有觀光也都是所以確實我們去理性之後時間的關係我們可能沒辦法大概就這個部分因為新南向的這個政策已經推動很長的時間包括我們保護我們的一些高科技的技術產業還包括我們的農業技術過去其實都一直朝這樣的方向在推動我們去豐富了他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5201.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5205.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
可是我們我剛剛講的是我們的反饋很少我們不是一直講說我們到底對他們做了什麼他們有什麼對我們反而他們在受制於中共的壓力之下他們對我們不敢表現友好這個這個我們並不算成功這部分我們未來可能還有時間來談那就整個外交的策略我們希望說還是有一些新的佈局 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5224.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5237.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
還有可能還有些還是要放下身段當你考量國家利益為上的時候有些事情其實是應該要透過談判或透過外交尤其是外交那不管兩岸關係雖然我們在兩岸關係還有陸委會還有什麼其他的單位可是都必須透過類似外交手段這樣子才可以讓大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5250.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5277.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
都可以獲得其利所以這個部分我們也希望由外交部也可以開始做起因為以前大家都是張牙舞爪其實這樣無助於台灣的整體的外交發展那我想要請教一下我們在5月18號有很多位委員上了太平島在去太平島之前有很多包括執政黨的委員甚至都一直公然指責 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5278.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5288.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我們這樣會破壞區域的安全穩定會製造南海的紛爭等等我想請問我們這一次去有什麼國家抗議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5291.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5308.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我那時候還沒擔任外交部長所以我還不是很清楚當時各國的反應不過我想這是國會委員會的考察那我們政府就是全力來配合那也希望能夠發揮這一次的考察的很正面的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5308.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5332.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我們這一次去就是非常正面因為第一包括衛福部長他在國外的時候都說國家主權不容打折所以像我們這樣去宣示自己的主權我們居然不敢做這樣當你在國內喊著口號當你在做大外宣大內宣說我們的主權不容打折的時候我們的領土居然不敢去 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5333.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5334.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我碰到一個在那裡已經服役6年多的我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5362.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5363.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
委員長林佳龍 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5382.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5400.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
這些傳播其實在那裡在那個島上是不能使用他完全沒有通訊的這些裝備現在目前慢慢有了所以我們可以去看他們其實他們感受到非常的溫暖在這之前是八年前了 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5400.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5405.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
所以我們希望未來更多的機會包括部長有機會跟我們一起上太平島去看看然後這個也是宣示我們主權這是比較具體的方法我們希望在國內不要動不動就拿政治或者拿對岸來把它放大或者來扭曲或者來打壓甚至扣帽子我想這是一個例子啦我特別舉出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5424.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5453.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那我還要利用一點時間我想要請教部長因為在521的時候也就是520賴總統剛就職的這個時間點在媒體的報導說外交部國和會派駐聖路西亞也是我們邦交國技術團的這個替代藝男他涉嫌經營販毒在過境美國的時候就被美方的司法部門逮捕 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5453.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5469.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
可見他光是過境而已他就被逮捕所以他已經被掌握了一段時間他不是在美國發生這樣子的一個違法的事件所以可是我們現在特別要提的因為他犯的都是重罪甚至最高可以判到無期徒刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5470.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5493.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那在這樣的一個情況之下他外交替代藝男他是以計劃助理身份持公務的護照代表國家他是代表國家的他到我們的友邦或友好國家去扶勤那像這樣的情況有沒有什麼樣的行政調查因為這是代表我們國家你當初要去的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5493.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5515.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
是怎麼樣做他的背景調查而且他還是他的專長是一些網路啊科技方面的這些專長我們派到聖路西亞邦交國的時候他甚至還在警察學校擔任講師那現在會不會因為憑藉外交人員身份從事非法活動會讓我們的邦交國也覺得我們這樣是太離譜了 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5519.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5540.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
是跟委員說明當然我們未來這個例子一定要做好好的檢討當然替代易蘭是內政部易政司他在做這個審查但是當然出具了就代表我們國家那這一次其實是美國聯邦調查局跟我們政府其實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5542.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5565.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
在這個調查過程是有一些交流合作所以並不是狀況外只是因為在偵辦中我們也不能夠先有什麼動作不過並不是說報導之後我們才知道是在那個他在轉機過境的時候其實我們跟美國已經有取得這個雙方面的一個聯繫來跟我們也全力在配合他們偵辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5567.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5588.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
因為我們在詢問的時候那時候外交部是說不知道的這個是兩種也然不同的一個狀況因為我們在91年3月的時候曾經簽署臺美行事司法互助協定就這個部分因為美方在逮捕持有臺灣公務護照入境的這樣子的一個代表國家的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5588.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5594.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
如果我們都在狀況外這個也表示我們的聯繫溝通是有很大的問題或者他們也不信任我們所以就這個部分當然部長剛剛有提到說其實我們事先知情那就已經事先知情那為什麼我們不是由我們去採取這樣的動作這也很奇怪是由美國人過境這美國的司法主席沒有那表示他過境的時候才知道我講的外交部不是說就是我們外交部其實我們政府的其他的部會跟我們外交部在駐外的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5617.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5635.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我是有外交部去抓啦我意思是說如果你是事先知情那你已經知道這個人有問題因為他在我們的邦交國他在邦交國他是教警察學校他過境的時候是美國先出手他反而不是我們自己掌握以後我們自己有所動作這是兩個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5638.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5639.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
下面我們請林楚瑩委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5673.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5674.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
謝謝主席 主席有請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5680.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5681.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
沒有聲音是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5719.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5728.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
主席這個時間我們就不暫停但是等一下就再給我多一點時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5742.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5755.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
好,這個我們委員會拜託以後這個真的有測試的話要協助我們一下,不然的話這樣聽不到,對。可以找個時間到委員那裡做一個比較詳盡的報告。好,謝謝政次。 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5769.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5773.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
這段發言跟詢答的內容有沒有覺得哪裡不妥當? |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5777.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5782.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
昨天我在質詢有關於田正四的時候特別提到了那就是參加完520之後那麼這個出席的澳洲的國會議員回去他們就接收到了中國的這個駐澳洲的這個代表處的相關的這個警告信函 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5800.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5812.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那我就問了田正志說那除了澳洲之外還有沒有其他的地方田正志回答我說委員那我是不是下一次我在一個比較妥當的地方不要公開我私下跟您來報告您覺得有沒有什麼不妥當的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5815.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5840.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
一時無法回答是嗎我直接告訴你答案因為剛剛這個放影片已經浪費了大概快兩分鐘是這個未來喔在5月24號修正過之後的立院職權行使法所有相關的外交國防的機密在委員會當中可不是我說了算還得要主席同意是機密才是機密所以說以剛剛那樣的詢答恐怕已經犯了藐視國會罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5842.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5846.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
因為他沒有立刻回答我他得要回去之後才要告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5847.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5874.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
所以其實本席是要特別提醒的是有關於國防或外交很多東西可能無法公開來做但是現在如果立院職權行使法的修正再加上國民黨跟民眾黨所提出的刑法的修正那麼這不只是不回答喔有可能還要有刑事上面的判決喔那麼現在如果說會議主席裁定是機密才能夠保留不回答沒有所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5877.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5901.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
虛偽回應或或者虛偽陳述又或者是不回應那麼我想要問的就是外交部在這裡針對接下來如果這個真的三讀通過要實施的立院職權行使法的時候外交部現在開始應用了嗎怎麼來做剛剛那個詢答您聽不出來有什麼問題我想在場的人可能也都不知道到底哪裡有問題對現在沒問題但接下來如果這個法規過了就恐怕有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5906.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5906.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
是! |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5908.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5910.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
部長我的提醒就是接下來到底那條線要劃在哪裡因為法規上面是非常不明確的所以我只能說今天在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5937.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5954.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
認為未來可以私下跟委員做報告的不表示就可以這樣回答因為只要發問的委員不開心主席決定那不是所謂的秘密就得在這個質詢台上做回應當然另外還有一個就是對於我們民進黨來講我們從頭到尾都認為這度法令是假改革真擴權 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5959.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5959.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
不然 哪裏不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5983.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6001.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那個是屬於調閱權不是調查權那因為我們憲法上的規定不管是司法或監察的調查權有它的專屬但是我們國會要行使職權也必須要有一定的調閱權這是經過大法官會議的解釋那你怎麼樣來充實這個調閱權 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6003.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6030.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
因為我們立法院我當過立委但我現在是外交部長我不能替別人講話就是我們的聽證制度可以再做一個怎麼樣能夠來精進讓它確實比較像聽證制度而這個比較像的時候同時也就它在調位上當然就有相對的權利義務所以它不是對人的調查權或者是說因為無限去擴充所以我們是依照大法官解釋當時的配合修法整套的 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6032.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6058.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
這個是不能夠只看一個,更何況我沒有去提國會藐視國會罪這種字眼因為這是真的是這個定義就會比較模糊一點部長趁這個機會讓你好好解釋一下因為未來很有可能在野黨如果不理解認為他們所提的版本就是當年你所提出來的那你可能就會批評這個所謂換了位子換了腦子那這個部分我也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6059.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6079.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
外交部因為本身有很多的外交秘密在進行甚至有很多的外交的合作他其實是在進行中但無法開誠布公也不是立法委員可以藉由立法院的所謂言論免責權可以特別去把它彰顯出來因為這個危害到的都是國家的安全的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6079.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6106.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
但是怎麼樣去細緻的來做執行恐怕外交部是要有所因應跟討論尤其是到立法院來備詢或者是立委要求所資的部分另外我的時間有限我想部長一定知道昨天有美國的議員來到台灣訪問甚至於來到了我們外交委員會其中我特別關注的這一位是站在我跟王定宇委員中間的這位金映玉因為她曾經提出了不歧視台灣的法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6107.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6117.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
其中非常重要的就是讓台灣可以加入INF那麼剛剛我看到這個部長的報告非常的支持這部分就是台灣can help要變成是台灣can lead那麼INF這個議題台灣加入的部分我曾經質詢過央行總裁彭金龍當時他告訴我說很抱歉因為台灣不是聯合國的會員國但是本席找了資料事實上不是聯合國的會員國科索沃他也有加入 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6134.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6157.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
再來是我們都知道中國的因素會使我們無法來進行進入國際組織但是在INF當中我不知道部長是否知道他並不是所有的會員國一起來投票而是有一個理事會而且這個理事會事實上不是票票等值他是依照有一個所謂的特別提撥權就是SDR他是依照GDP以及他的外匯存底來做比數跟佔比 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6161.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6172.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
因為時間有限我直接讓部長知道在這樣的所謂的特別的理事會當中的所謂特別提款權當中美國他所佔的比重是17%言下之意 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6175.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6185.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
美國這樣一個比重最高的國家會員國支持台灣加入IMF有議員提出來如果這個法案能夠順利在美國過關的話台灣加入IMF的機會就會相對的提高因為在這個全體的表決權當中美國佔17日本佔6.14雖然中國有6%但是我們還有德國法國 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6198.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6211.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
還有英國這些其他的友邦都可以加入讓台灣有機會加入當然我們知道台灣也許在經濟穩定的部分或是金融制度上面是跟得上國際的但是能多增加一個國際組織對我們來說就是有機會能夠跟世界發聲更何況只要加入IFF台灣的金融人員可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6220.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6220.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
外交部部長林佳龍 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6235.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6256.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
是,其實所有的問題都源起於聯大2758號解釋被中國給這個扭曲那這個現在已經引起世界的注意那包括美國,所以2758號決議只處理中國代表權沒有涉及台灣代表權的問題所以台灣可以參加所有的跟聯合國還有周邊國家有關的國際組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6259.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6273.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
所以我們自己外交部也要有這個認識因為這個是中共在發動法律戰他透過他的一些鐵桿的盟友到處在講2758是一個一中原則那美國說他的一中政策是盡量台灣關係法 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6275.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6301.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
另外再加3個公報或6項保證所以台灣關係法才是美國真正的一中政策的基礎所以這個時候就有不同版本了嘛所以我們不要去只聽信一種然後他是為什麼打壓越來越厲害包括在這一次的世界衛生組織的大會就是因為他只包不住火了嘛因為27582長期被壟斷性的這個扭曲的解釋啊已經這個神話已經破了 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6304.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6320.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
全世界都知道台灣要參加因為參加是符合聯合國精神這些普世的價值跟人權比如說我們四個最主要的國際組織沒辦法參加都是因為中共而這個都是損人不利己的包括世界衛生組織國際民航組織還有包括氣候公約的這個組織以及國際刑警的組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6326.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6330.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
這個所有都是跨國界的現象包括衛生還有包括這個航空的安全以及這個氣候變遷甚至是國際性的犯罪包括其實我現在提出來的國際貨幣基金就是RMF部長因為我的時間有限我最後只希望我提出這樣的一個事實以及陳述之後我希望外交部能夠把它當成另外一個你們今年的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6352.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6377.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
包括如何的來積極推動跟參與因為它不是沒有機會但是如果把它放進來對於台灣的金融穩定金融安全甚至於在金融上面不要忘了我們的這個外匯存底高達有5860億美元這對於我們來說都是非常好的一個利器那麼除了這個之前講到的外交邦交跟非邦交國上面的輔助之外積極的參與國際組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6379.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6380.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
接下來請王帝宇委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6410.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6411.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
否則你整期都不可以回去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6414.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6440.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
你這樣我不叫你也很難我本來要叫別人的請部長還有其他所有業館相關的司長我就不另外邀請就自動上來就相關的人聽到題目就可以上來謝謝主席第一個題目要跟部長討論因為身為我們國家的外交部長也是國家對外的發言人最近美國在大概剩下5個月要選總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6442.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6461.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
先任總統拜登首次以總統的身份在西點軍校的畢業典禮發表演說,裡面談到美國會為台灣海峽的和平與穩定挺身而出,後來又接著講說美國是勇於為盟友動用武力來防衛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6463.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6484.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
他講完之後大概不到24小時,華盛頓郵報揭露了川普在一場募款參會,但是他沒有特別點出詳細的地點。川普講的是,美國如果他當總統,俄羅斯入侵烏克蘭,他會轟炸莫斯科,中國入侵台灣,他會轟炸北京。 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6485.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6511.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
那這裡面來自美國的民主共和兩黨的總統候選人的發言當然我們知道在選舉期間會有選舉的用詞而總統或者總統候選人跟未來組成的administration他的所謂的行政部門還是會有點不一樣但我要請教部長你怎麼去回應評論美國兩個他們兩個一定有一個下一任總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6511.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6512.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
謝謝委員其實美國是對台灣的支持特別是台海的 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6539.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6558.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
和平跟穩定是跨黨派而且跨行政立法部門這從最近的撥款法案的通過就可以看到臺灣是在三個國家這個大概可以視為美國社會的主流意見大概對臺灣的支持是主流第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6559.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6585.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
這個是選舉活動所以Bipartisan也就在美國的民主共和兩黨對這個是意見大概也有共識那外顯的行為就是撥完法案台灣其實是最有高度共識的從得票數跟討論過程包含麥考爾和馬靠萊的發言但我現在講的是你作為一個國家現在是外交部長這兩個有一個一定會成為未來的美國總統我們政府要不要回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6587.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6609.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
怎麼回應本席現在在外交委員會正式問你這問題所謂戰略清晰應該講說戰略越來越清晰其實美國的這個對台或對中的政策他是建立在台灣關係法這個是最基本然後才有所謂三個公報跟六項保證那過去好像變成好像變成在所謂的要戰略模糊 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6610.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6632.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
其實你還是要按照美國的實際上的政策去跟他的台灣關係碼去做解釋美國日本其實包含北約他們過去的ambiguity或者strategic ambiguity他代表的大概是大概在2013年以前方便跟台灣跟中國之間的互動保持一個模糊這個模糊裡面有一個核心就是有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6633.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6661.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
是否出兵協助這個事情保持模糊我讓你猜可是那時候是因為中國的兵力遠不及於美國我讀你不敢challenge不敢挑戰那這兩年特別是從川普的任內的最後一年到這兩年那大概在台灣的安全議題上就如同剛才部長講的逐漸走向戰略清晰不管是前官員或現任官員但是我現在這一題我要請教部長的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6662.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6679.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
你認為這兩位的發言可被反映出或者是否代表美國行政部門的態度因為一個是現任三軍統帥一個是承認三軍統帥是不是代表美國對於台灣安全議題的戰略清晰 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6682.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6682.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
外交部長林佳龍 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6700.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6714.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這有沒有代表美國行政部門的態度跟委員報告當然我沒有辦法替他們講不過從我們這個角度來看的話我們是在維持現狀而且是在我們的政策延續之下是中共不斷的改變現狀有所出現新常態 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6716.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6737.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
這個引起了全世界的緊張先從安倍首相他講台灣有事就是日本有事其實他最重要的一句話就是日美安保有事同樣的美國跟這些第一島鏈國家我這一題我要把它結束起來我建議外交部北美是這邊去思考一下這一題要不要回應剛才部長講得很好我們不要替美國政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6739.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6764.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我認為他是首相戰略信息我們不替外國政府去分析這個但我們政府怎麼去回應美國總統大選當中這個議題因為現在才還有五個月才投票這個議題後面還有大選辯論會越來越多所以應該我們國家的外交部對這個事情要有一個看法穩定的看法對我們台灣國家安全戰略有益的看法這是我今天提這一題提醒外交部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6765.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6788.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
第二題是有關眾議院外委會主席 McCall昨天來我們台灣的外交委員會他大概我印象中是第一個美國的外交委員會的主席進到我們外交委員會的會議室以前Ed Royce是到院長室沒有進到這裡來那後來到議場外面拍照的時候他也提到這兩天台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6790.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6802.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
年輕人的民主抗議活動他認為這個是呈現出臺灣的力量民主的象徵他還說臺灣是民主的燈塔他還直接跟習近平講跟Chairman Xi他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6804.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6828.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
這個跟中國的香港也就香港民運跟八九六四天安門不一樣這是一個sign of strength這是一個力量的展現那裡面也提到希望在民主的國家對抗獨裁的威脅美國的民主共和台灣的民進黨國民黨可以一起來合作對抵禦中國的脅迫也提到國防力量等等那我這邊要具體問的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6829.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6857.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
他站在韓國瑜院長身邊提到說有關FMF也就是無償軍援的部分還有軍售的項目的部分他站在那裡代表美國的兩黨表達會儘速交付我請教外交部雖然是軍售項目也許不是你們直接項目但是麥考爾是外委會主席我們有沒有了解他所提的儘速交付是什麼項目儘速是多快 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6859.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6865.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
你們有沒有掌握這個訊息?所有的這些過去答應的項目當然就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6867.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6890.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
因為他產線的問題嘛當然現在進速交付就是他的方向是這樣可是實際上當然有些項目會比較快有些項目會比較慢對啦我當然知道有些項目但現在有沒有他已經表達說他要進速交付了嘛是那他也代表說他是代表By Partisan在那邊表達這個意見那有沒有也許跟美團 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6890.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6891.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
外交部有沒有掌握這個訊息? |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6909.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6928.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
有一些訊息啦當然我那個應該講說他的目的最主要是說因為台灣的國會要支持啦沒有這個不是美國單方要不要交因為有時候涉及到軍購是國會我們的預算其實他來的是說他是百partisan他希望美國百partisan台灣也百partisan我們的預算是都通過囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6929.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6949.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那發架書啊什麼那個在跑流程後來因為COVID又因為二五戰爭還有因為一些軍火問題我的意思說如果沒有掌握或不便講我可以接受我們不見得一定要在那邊討論但我的意思說如果有掌握能夠讓國人了解當然我們越透明是越好啦那所以目前外交部有沒有掌握這個訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6950.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6966.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
我是有看到一些訊息但是因為這個還是要跟國防部還有我們到底哪些項目是那個外電回來跟實際上到底情況這個還有主管機關我也是要不變講我們就這個基於國家利益該守的命令還是要守 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6966.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6990.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
但是我是建議美方跟我們這邊要溝通適度的透明讓國人可以安心我最後請教這一題可能要我們資深的司長來回答2021年本席在這邊提問當時有掌握到我們因為關島越來越重要關島為什麼重要你知道嗎以前是美方軍售我們有些項目他不方便及時交付給我們他會暫存在關島 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6991.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7013.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
現在沒有了啦但是呢關島因為北馬里亞納那邊的空軍基地海軍陸戰隊基地冰海戰鬥軟體都恢復然後呢新加坡的空軍訓練到那裡另外呢你看北約的不管是印度的或者是日本的這些自由民主聯盟的軍事運籌與維握的核心之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7014.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7033.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
是關島所以關島也提升他們的防衛力量然後呢也加強周邊的他們相關的島最近到與那國等等都有做一些部署所以關島可以說是第一島鏈第一島鏈的核心其實是台灣到第二島鏈的關鍵點大概就是關島中間夾的就是西太平洋跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7034.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7034.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
外交部部長林佳龍 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7055.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7070.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
派軍事聯絡組因為我們現在美團我們的軍事聯絡團是在DC但有些軍事聯絡員會在美國的一些像我們在Arizona有空軍授訓就會派駐聯絡官那我們那時候認為關島 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7072.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7085.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我們外交部從關起來把關島的住管關掉好像過兩年吧又副管那時候第一任第一任恢復社管的代表好像是陳一年嘛是派陳一年去嘛後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7087.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7088.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
因為這個派駐的人員都要是臺美雙方溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7114.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7129.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
也不便在這裡多說吧這個在國務院已經跑三年了耶因為涉及到這個跑三年還有一些具體的還是在八點在討價還價或者是說認為不便現在到底進度到哪裡能不能了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7131.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7153.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
現在還有在進行一些溝通所以這個案子是活的還是死的還在還在那為什麼花三年有一些資訊雙方需要再溝通的根據題例如說讓我們知道我們跟美國國會議員溝通的時候我們可以提出這個需要因為這個是實質需求我們要有一個聯絡組在那裡甚至於那邊的跟日本的相關軍演媒體都揭露了我們有人員去過嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7153.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7154.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
接下來請徐巧欣委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7186.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7186.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
林佳龍部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7198.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7218.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
部長首先恭喜你就任,我想不同的部長會有不同的風格,每一任的部長因為他的不同風格,也會為不同的部門帶來不同的成就。所以我想先問一下,你認為你接下來的風格會跟前任有什麼樣的不一樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7219.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7219.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
有 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7243.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7260.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
社群媒體社群媒體的部分都交接好了嗎是那未來你打算要怎麼樣使用這個平台那跟過去的吳部長你覺得會有什麼樣的一些差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7261.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7264.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
以外交部機關要發布的重要或正確訊息為主是你接下來可能在社群平台會使用的風格,我這樣的陳述您同意嗎?同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7287.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7297.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那再來呢前任的外交部長在他還沒有卸任的時候經常在公開的場合發表有關於很多國防的議題舉例來說我這邊放了幾樣吳釗燮說 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7302.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7319.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
中國鎖定台灣是戰爭行為：或者是接受法媒專訪說中國如果開戰台灣將付出重大代價2027年台海爆發戰爭嗎吳釗燮部長說共軍目前並沒有為侵台做準備然後還有很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7320.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7337.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
吳釗燮CNN專訪示警﹚中國試圖對台灣發生戰爭﹚中國正為攻台醞釀新藉口﹚其實從外交的角度來看這些都是已經屬於灰色地帶跟擦邊球了 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7337.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7361.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
甚至很多的議題應該是要由我們的國防部長來做正式的回答而不是由外交部長的這個角色所以我想要請問一下林佳龍部長未來你在任內你是否會依循前一位的部長用這種可能會介入到國防部長職權的方式接受國外媒體的訪問 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7363.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7383.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
跟委員報告我當然會就外交部的業務我主政的為主不過就像說立法院是外交國防委員會這都是國安的一部分這怎麼樣分工合作或有沒有需要更高的這個層次來溝通協調我想這方面我們會多加注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7384.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7404.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
另外,前任部長吳釗燮已經就任了新的位置在國安會的秘書長。就我今天得知的訊息是,到昨天,他還在媒體的群組持續發表新聞稿,說他見了哪一些來自國外的貴賓。 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7405.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7421.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那會不會變成是我們在外交上面有雙頭馬車的問題未來我們在整個外交體系上面外交部跟國安會我們應該要如何協調跟統一想請教部長您的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7422.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7436.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
是當然我們憲法或者是相關的法都有規定包括外交部的職權然後國防部的職權那國安會他是總統會決定國家大政方針設的幕僚機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7438.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7453.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
是那這個部分當然就是他的職權所以比如說我們發生一些事情像這個瓜地馬拉咖啡跟這個夏威夷豆可能受到因為跟我們這個邦交的關係被中共那邊刁難 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7455.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7476.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
但是一般來說國安會就我們過去來講像顧立雄部長在擔任的時候就很少說我見了哪一些訪兵然後我發布新聞稿我來講這個事情如果繼續有類似的情況請問林部長會不會覺得您作為外交部長的職權被逾越了 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7477.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7505.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我做我該做的,說我該說的。所以就這一點,我們外交部也有發新聞稿。那部長您在前任部長任內,我們斷交了8個國家。所以前任的部長也被認為是斷交部長。那您剛上任,剛才馬昭偉也有詢問關於友邦的部分是否有信心。那我還要額外問一個問題是,部長在您的任內,您有沒有信心去爭取到新 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7508.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7535.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我們現在也確實有一些國家想跟我們建立更緊密的關係但是我們就是秉持就是價值外交這樣的一個路線就不是因為說要什麼為了多一個少一個邦交國或涉入到金錢外交但是他們看到臺灣跟我們交往會來他們國家的發展所以確實有一些我們的邦交國的周邊國家可能也覺得說跟我們交往也有很正面的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7535.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7538.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我希望部長可以盡量的去做因為我大概掌握是哪些國家但是呢我覺得不想要在這裡去講讓你們的工作去破局因為能夠增加更多的邦交國這是我們大家引頸期盼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7554.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7571.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
過去的斷交部長如果林佳龍部長能夠變成是增加邦交的部長我相信不管是對您個人對外交部甚至對中華民國都是非常好的發展所以我們很期待在不久的未來能夠看到有新的邦交國的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7572.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7594.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
接下來我也想要請問一下一些外交的時事首先我們有一位23歲的台灣男子涉嫌販毒到紐約被逮捕那外交部證實了是外交替代一男我想要請問一下這個外交替代一男現在目前的情況是如何的那我們這邊會如何去做相關的處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7595.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7619.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
跟委員報告,因為在過境美國紐約的時候,因為其實他們對方美國已經偵辦相當的時間,在這個調查的過程,有跟我們相關的單位有聯繫,所以是有一些掌握,那現在就是因為這個是偵辦是由美國,因為他的司法權所在。 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7619.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7619.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
是﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7649.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7649.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我們會發表抗議嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7667.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7667.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
上週我們有三位同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7683.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7706.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
不分黨派的立委同仁去WHA參加活動我們在疫情期間幫助了很多國家但是我們聯合國的秘書長雖然說給予肯定可是這次卻無法參加還說要看其他會員國但是我們從2009到2016是可以以觀察員的身份參加但從2017年開始就不行了 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7706.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7713.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那這部分部長有沒有信心在未來我們有機會能夠爭取到再次以觀察員身份參加的機會? |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7715.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7740.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
我們要更努力啦,因為確實也更嚴峻嘛,這一個環境但是我們從這一次為台灣發聲的,包括發言或者是聯名性的國家有增加,它那個內容也更強度越來越高所以我想這個對於台灣參加是目的但是這個過程當中我們用各種的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7742.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7763.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
最後一個跟這個外交比較沒關係但跟您個人有關係的我想詢問就是最近被討論的這個王逸川先生民進黨的這個政策會執行長因為他都被認為是您的子弟兵您帶出來的但他最近身為民進黨的執行長卻在節目上表達說他可以取得 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7764.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7781.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
參加不同活動的民眾的各自去比對我個人認為這樣子的行為是違反通保法以及各自法想要請問部長因為他都被說是您的子弟兵所以您的對這件事情的看法是什麼我想我們也想要知道一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7783.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7806.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
王逸川就是王逸川林佳龍是林佳龍我也沒有跟他有什麼討論沒有跟他討論我想由他自己來回應但是您認為就是說從您過去的各種政治參與經驗是有辦法去得到去識別化的個資這樣子的一個事情嗎這個事情我到目前真的沒有很清楚這個個案的情況好 謝謝部長好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7811.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7819.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
好謝謝我們待會王宏威委員質詢完畢以後休息5分鐘現在請陳冠廷委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7840.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7858.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
請部長部長好部長首先先歡迎你回到立法院來備詢這份過程應該是比過去的都還要更挑戰因為他必須要面臨國會的一些質詢等等但這也是一個機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7861.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7863.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
首先部長我們先看一下我們這一個PVT Powerpoint這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7885.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7911.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
這個2024年的5月有一場兩岸選手面對面那活動是在廈門大學舉辦的那其中有包含臺灣統一聯盟黨的黨主席那這位黨主席也是教授他過去也曾經是外交官那裡面有提到說相關關於一個中國原則的論述我想請教部長您看到這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7913.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7940.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
臉書貼文之後有什麼想法跟看法?裡面有什麼錯誤的訊息你希望能夠來給予澄清?我想中共有他們的使觀跟對這個法律他們的解釋不過如果以涉及到的臺灣地位來講那他舉例的這幾個其實都不是在國際法上這個是就是具有國際法直接效力 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7941.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7942.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
請問部長上述的看法你怎麼看? |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7962.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7982.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
因為這個如果從國際法的角度當然是舊青山合約是最重要的那對2758號決議因為這個衍生後面最接近的就是這個聯大的那個決議那這個決議中共最近又有進一步法律戰要把它等同於一中原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7983.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8009.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
事實上2758決議美國講得很清楚世界各國的民主國家也就這個只處理的中國代表權不涉及台灣的這個地位所以這也是為什麼我們現在要參加國際組織不是被一中原則綁住更何況各國有不同版本的一中政策不以美國來講他的一中政是建立在台灣關係法三個公報再加六項保證那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8010.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8031.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
對於像美國國會議員來他遵循的可能台灣關係法更是對他們有直接法律效力沒錯所以部長一中原則就是不等同於一中政策嘛對不對對是不是可以再簡單的跟我們全國國民講一下到底一中原則中國的一中原則是荒謬在哪邊那各國的一中政策是不同在哪裡特別是美國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8033.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8061.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
美國都常講他們版本各國也可以有各國的版本台灣也是我們可以有自己的版本涉及到的一些兩岸政策那一中原則因為中共壟斷對一個中國的解釋他的三段論很清楚就算世界上只有一個中國那這個台灣是中國的一部分那中華人民共和國代表中國所以他連環套之後我們只要進入一中原則台灣的主權就是被中華人民共和國代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8062.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8073.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
可是國際上都不認為台灣是中華人民共和國的一部分台灣的名義也是如此因為我們去參加國際組織只要你開始接受一中原則簡單來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8075.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8093.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
你就變成可能另外一個香港因為一中原則處理就是台灣的主權是歸屬所以這個時候我們要去爭取人權比如說我們加入世界衛生組織我們是一種人權可是如果你犧牲主權那你也換不到人權這個就是現在我們全世界對中國一中原則他認為說他壟斷了解釋那不斷的去造成改變現狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8099.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8121.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
謝謝部長,所以剛才我們提供部長一個機會的意思就是說我們就像你報告裡面講到中國持續在國際場域來鞏固一中的格局不管是用歷史文件用他們的論述用他們的延環套這種方式用一中原則來去壟斷對中國論述的整個在國際社會的聲音那這些都是對我們是有傷害的 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8122.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8148.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
所以透過部長也好或者是我們各位在場的每位外交官也好這每一個場合裡面要確實的把論述從法律的條文也好到我們現在的國際現實的政治也好一一的都要去述明那我必須再強調不管是現任的外交官或者是以後卸任的外交官我們對國家的責任都還是一樣重要對於台灣的國際地位跟空間的論述我們要確實要澄清論述絕對不能夠輸論述絕對不能夠填 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8150.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8169.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8169.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8174.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
美國戰爭研究所和美國企業研究所在5月13日聯合發表《從脅迫到投降,中國如何不戰而奪台》 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8185.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8208.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
恐於恐怕會在賴清德總統的四年任期之間軍事、經濟、訊息還有網路四大領域分階段的來去禁閉台灣那來去分化台灣社會來去嚇阻台灣的反對中國共產黨的人士如果說四年後的時機成熟那中國可能甚至是假意去遞出和平的訊息會提出所謂的和平方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8213.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8230.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
關於這個部份我想要請教部長因為這個不是只跟國防相關這跟外交也有相關這跟國安外交甚至是內政全部都有相關在外交部長的立場上你怎麼看這個部份 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8232.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8259.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
其實沒有主權就沒有人權也沒有產權這個是現在全世界的一個對台灣的支持因為台灣已經是民主的國家至於說台灣內部對於國家的定位或者是什麼樣的走向那是民主過程的一部分可是對外來代表的話其實現在國際法上面有一個趨勢就是和平手段就是這個從G7在廣島 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8261.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8276.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
大家共同的發言就是為什麼中共企圖把台灣問題變成好像中國的內政要把台海內海化而世界各國的反應不是因為台灣而已而是因為這一個改變所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8278.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8301.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
新的一個常態將會改變整個世界的秩序所以台灣過去也許人家覺得說這只是兩岸問題台灣要去面對可是現在發現這是中國有問題世界要來面對所以我覺得台灣是順著這個國際趨勢來講中共不只是對台灣有主權的這個野心他在整個擴張上面已經引起世界的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8302.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8327.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
謝謝部長這個講得非常好那我必須再強調剛才部長提到的新的現狀比如說中國現在要打破軍事中國不要維持現狀那在這個狀況之下過去台灣都是在中國的框架之下被討論所以你看在馬英九前總統時期甚至在更早之前的陳水扁前總統時期只要談到台灣大概就是在中國的框架之下所以台灣沒有本身的主體性沒有談到台灣的產業沒有談到台灣的經濟沒有談到台灣的文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8330.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8357.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
所以現在剛好是一個既是最大的挑戰也是最大的機會所以我們很希望外交部能夠扮演起更重要的角色因為我們剛才提到的包含部長講的你從法律開始講你從過去的國際條約開始講你從每一個訊息開始說因為我們要面對中國的挑戰就是信息戰、法律戰、金融戰甚至是所有的論述我們都要做好準備在這個中共的非戰爭脅迫行動裡面的策略還有一個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8358.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8381.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
就是用廣泛的宣傳降低美國公眾和政治領袖支持台灣的意願這個部分我想部長在昨天拜訪我們辦公室的時候也有提到說跟國會的參眾議員之間的互動之外跟行政系統上面的互動部長各位解釋一下或者是要反映一下怎麼樣來反制降低美國公眾和政治領袖支持台灣的意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8382.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8408.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
是,其實中共是拿台灣對全世界其實發動了所謂的三戰法律戰、心理戰跟輿論戰那透過因為現在它數位集權所掌控的科技它也進行長臂的管轄甚至要統治所以這已經侵犯到很多國家的內政跟他們對於基本人權的保障那在這種情況之下我覺得台灣對面對所謂他們的灰色作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8411.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8435.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
臺灣的經驗很寶貴全世界都想學比如說現在中國跟俄羅斯中國就在教俄羅斯怎麼樣透過俄烏戰爭之後對於歐美這一種所謂的認知作戰臺灣是在受他們攻擊的第一線這個臺灣的價值就出來了所以價值外交這個也是另外一種臺灣存在的價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8437.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8452.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
所以這個總體上來講因為現在中國所採取的企圖改變現狀改變國際秩序已經讓這個中國成為一個潛在就是大家共同的一個挑戰那一起來因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8453.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8479.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
最後請教部長關於我們退職的軍官退職的這一些跟國家安全相關的人員那如果進入中國進入大陸地區者不得從事防害國家安全或利益之活動那我想請教說其實現在不僅僅是退役的將官曾經到中國甚至在中國的這個重要的政治場所裡面發表對台灣不利的言論之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8480.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8503.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
有一些退役的外交官退休的外交官那也常常有類似這樣的做法請問外交部有什麼樣相應的方式來去避免因為我必須強調喔廣泛而持久的認知心理戰也好或者是說透過宣傳降低本國或者是他國的公眾支持台灣的意願都很嚴重我想請教有沒有相關的內規或者是未來有沒有什麼修法的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8504.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8504.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
接下來請王宏威委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8539.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8566.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
謝謝主席請林部長部長在前任部長吳釗燮部長他在卸任之前他曾經接受過媒體的訪問他談了一些就是未來我們外交關係上面的一些處境還有值得要重視的地方在5月9號的時候他接受媒體採訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8568.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8590.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
他說我們有兩個邦交國是有長期隱憂的那麼外交圈是盛傳他所謂的兩個國家可能是指的是海地跟瓜地馬拉那我不曉得在你們交接的過程裡面吳部長有沒有跟你談到就是這個事情有沒有談到這兩個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8592.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8592.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
在短期之內因為在我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8608.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8610.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
外界還是會認為我們的邦交國隨時有可能也會採取突襲式的斷交所以我想請問一下在我們今年底之前部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8631.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8655.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
你不管基於你過去的工作職務或者你現在的任職有沒有可能還會有邦交國對我們採取突襲式的斷交或者是就是斷交那跟委員報告中共是一定會出手的啦會挖我們的邦交國所以我們要做最壞的打算做最好的努力所以最壞打算是還是有可能對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8656.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8681.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
因為他很多的手段我舉個例子來講比如有些國家因為涉及到華為他只要進入那個國家之後可能會影響不只他的電信他的這個資通訊甚至他很多人民的這個需要的建設跟服務美國跟我們理念相近的國家就有乾淨網絡這個時候呢我們的友邦需要一些數位的建設跟服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8682.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8688.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
所以我想請問一下,到目前為止您的任職裡面是跟吳釗燮部長是一樣的嗎?目前兩個國家有長期引用,因為你剛剛這樣又講了一個華為的這個外交站,那是不是事實上是超過兩個國家? |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8710.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8730.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
中共對台灣要挖邦交國是全面的,我們絕對不能把它當作兩個。對,所以你不會那麼樂觀說只有兩個。對,我不是用這個數字來看,我是覺得他們國家發展所需要的台灣能不能參與,然後能不能跟包括友邦,像美國、日本、澳洲一起來參與。我舉個例子,比如說土瓦魯。 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8732.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8733.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
另外請問一下教廷的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8757.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8768.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
因為最近教廷有發表說他們要再跟中國建立更穩定的關係而且準備成立常設辦公室那會不會影響我們跟教廷之間的邦交 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8769.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8791.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我們就持續在發展跟教廷的關係,包括這一次范緹剛有派代表來台灣我們有更深入的了解怎麼去發展雙邊的關係那因為這涉及到教廷他對於天主教的一個傳教他的一個目標可是他有他的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8792.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8805.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
因為涉及到包括在中國傳教所遇到的問題這不是單獨變主教所有宗教都遇到所以就台灣的立場我們會不會把教廷也把它放在我們的邦交的警示的範圍之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8807.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8817.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
因為想說我們要持續甚至更大的努力因為中共的出手都是越來越重的所以他也在警示的範圍之內也不是說警示我對12個國家都當作寶貝每個都要顧好顧好還是要讓他發展的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8822.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8850.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我們只剩下12個國家一個都不能少啦說實在這是我要努力的目標那另外請教一下這個立陶宛因為這次他們在WHA上面也有幫我們發聲但是呢立陶宛總統在他的這個選舉之前曾經講過說準備把台灣代表處未來把它改成台北代表處同樣的位置我問過那個吳部長吳部長說他有一個觀察級就是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8851.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8866.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
10月因為他們的國會全面改選所以現在新的外交部長林部長你能不能保證立陶宛的台灣代表處不會變成台北代表處 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8867.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8885.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
應該是這樣講,因為這是雙方面同意的,那未來當然對方的意見是什麼,我們的主張如何。至少是這個總統連任他有在第一時間就講,其實我們臺灣代表處的名稱是不是更改不是優先的議題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8888.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8891.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
他認為實質上跟台灣的關係要發展這個是雙方面基於因為其實立陶宛他對像惡霧戰爭之後他對台灣是發自內心希望跟我們交往的當然中國的這個壓力很大他也挺過來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8906.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8910.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
最後一個問題這個也是蠻重要就是臺灣民主基金會因為您原來也是董事現在也一定會是董事那麼在6月17號即將要這個新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8931.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8934.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我們就尊重那個程序因為新的董事會召開董事長、秘書長跟相關的人士我對於特定的人選 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8960.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8978.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
我沒有特別的意見但是我覺得那個程序以及互相的諮詢那有一些慣例大家可以參考我想這個都是基於外交是一體那當然所以我只問對外因為韓院長已經非常明確的表示他是要提名盧業忠 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8979.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8998.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
所以在這個部分是不是你們可以就外交部的立場是不是可以尊重韓院長他所提名的人選按照就是組織章程來走因為這是董事會決定啦因為他是一個法人嘛他有相關的規定我們就按照那個程序來走所以如果按照組織章程來走 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9000.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9001.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
所以部長你給我答案感覺還要繼續在這個問題上繼續的糾結喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9011.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9021.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
你們不會糾結啦 這個就是按著程序走我希望能夠尊重韓院長 尊重組織張誠互相尊重啦 因為要尊重就要整個都尊重因為如果要講起來很長的啦包括秘書長的決定 總統的還有這個政府尤其是相關的未來的配合度其實這個民主基金會成立的時候是一個很好的開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9035.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9035.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
休息5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9066.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9070.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
這個黑咖啡是不錯的有些黑咖啡不一定好 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9434.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9448.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我們繼續開會接下來請麥玉珍委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9458.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9481.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
部長好 委員好好久不見還記得你當市長的時候我們共同去推我們的東協廣場正式成立對啊觀光景點的現在是是是是所以要請教部長一下在2016年新南向政策推廣到現在是覺得跟哪個國家是推廣最好 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9484.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9495.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
越南很好啦,其他當然18個國家,越南、泰國應該都算是發展得很好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9497.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9515.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
謝謝部長,對,我們都知道就是臺灣與越南交流不只是投資,還有就是合作交流,還有就是交易、文化,還有醫療的方面,還有很大的潛力可以再發展,因為我們現在在越南 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9517.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9542.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我們部長知道說我們現在在越南的來臺灣投資還有其他國家來投資還有我們臺灣要到越南投資的有多少人我們臺灣到越南投資喔臺商會就很多阿這個真的是應該我想他們來的是當然這兩年的有關留學生這樣前後就將近一兩萬人以上阿我們去的也超過阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9544.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9570.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
所以說這樣就是我們特別觀光的發展還有經濟的發展兩國的貿易的發展都是非常密切的所以在觀光和人的就是這邊的簽證的限制不管是從越南來這邊還是說我們台商過去那一邊都是兩國的之間的合作但是因為沒有開放的簽證所以呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9571.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9575.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
但是目前雙邊都有開放免簽越南就是為了吸引觀光客就是在今年年初的時候就開放免簽證有許多國家有被納入包含我們的鄰近的國家就是日本還有南韓 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9600.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9616.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
但可惜我們台灣並沒有納入這個名單所以南向政策推也是最好的但是沒有納入所以希望說事後我方是不是可以維持就是我們跟越南那邊就是積極爭取就是說雙方的互惠免簽證有沒有這樣子的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9624.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9642.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
當然我們現在有觀紅專案,越南觀光客來還是有嘛,有開放一些那先前疫情期間越南比較緊縮,疫情後也有一些開放那當然他們現在也有電子簽,這當然涉及到因為台越的關係只會越來越發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9643.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9665.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
因為在越南現在投資的台商很多特別是在新增在北越的部分那個供應鏈的移轉所以我們會跟越方來談秉持互惠對等的原則其實有人流才有金流才有各種的交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9670.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9683.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
對,而且不管是婚姻或者是工作還是留學我想在台越之間是越來越會蓬勃發展是,所以部長有沒有說要去爭取就是我們就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9684.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9709.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
越南跟台灣有就是部分的免簽或者是投資的就像我們越南在台灣就是要我我家來台灣我有一本五年的簽證我是隨時可以飛來飛去連我小孩跟先生都有所以我想說我們是不是說我們要去爭取的雙方有這樣子的不同的就是機制不同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9711.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9715.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
的身份來去做免簽證,對兩邊的投資都很有幫助,我們部長有沒有這樣子的未來的規劃? |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9723.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9749.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
有這是我們的目標要來聚集的推動好謝謝我們的部長就是因為呢就是雙方的貿易謝謝部長的支持再來就是我們大家最注重的就是不管嫁到哪裡我們都希望就是要有孝順我們最重要的是孝順父母但是呢我們像我們的東南亞還有我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9751.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9779.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
大陸地區都是說我們要來就是讓父母來台觀光的部分或者探親的部分就像我們越南來探親只有直親就是父母才可以來探親其他兄弟姐妹都不能來探親還有來探親只有三個月最多三個月只有說我們是因為有生孩子在延長就是六個月所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9781.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9789.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
這樣子的探親的部分是不是可以部長這邊讓我們的簽證可以去延長就像我們從越南嫁到美國美國給我們的是一本給父母一本簽證兩年隨時都可以飛來飛去所以我們為了要減少經濟的壓力我們新住民的家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9806.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9834.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
讓他們的父母來探親是不是要給他們一本簽證不要說限制三個月你限制三個月變成大家來探親的人就變減少又會導致大家就是會滴流這樣子還有就是美國只要你們嫁到美國還有就是依親的簽證因為我們臺灣也是很注重孝順不管你去哪裡都要孝順 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9835.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9850.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
是不是這樣子所以我們希望說未來是不是說我們部長這邊可以發放就是讓我們的父母可以來台灣就是簽證延長就是說免簽證是最好了但是說我們簽證可以去延長這個部分因為我們都知道說百善孝為先不管你去任何國家在台灣一樣也是都要養父母 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9869.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9886.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
大方向台灣要跟這個包括新南向國家的交流尤其是這個以人為本這個是一定是會逐漸的在出入境還有拘留甚至移民上 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9888.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9911.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
在確保我們安全因為也有一些拖把的事故但是在這種情況之下他來這邊不管是留學工作移民甚至他整個家庭來依親我想台灣是一個應該是在這個方面是要走向跟新南向國家更多的交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9912.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9913.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
接下來請賴氏寶委員上台諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9954.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9957.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
謝謝主席及各位部長尤其林部長已經在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9961.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9986.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
你是接了新職宣誓就任後第一次來嗎?對,第一次來這裡人是不錯的林佳龍就外面黨外或者在野黨對你不會討厭不會討厭但我們希望你講真話因為我就知道你希望講真話而且你也勇於擔當出事情的交通部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9988.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9989.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
林佳龍報告業務概況． |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10001.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10017.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
不是搜尋喔我聽得懂你講的不是搜尋嘛有更適合的人才的話我們當然這個可以嘛不是說話又說又倒過來講嘛你比較想那個位置去用講去所以之後無奈的結果有就好這樣說對不對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10022.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10048.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這樣說就是這樣,不是你首選啦不是你的首選啦有人要擔比較重的擔子齁,我們應該給他加油對嘛,你這講出來選外之音嘛你應該想去現在卓榮泰的位置嘛卓榮泰什麼位置,行政院長對不對,我也覺得你來做比較好勒你的精力比他多很多勒卓榮泰做院長,你不做院長,我替你報不平勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10050.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10051.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
總統和院長認為我來這裡可以為國家貢獻 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10072.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10095.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
昨天他就做院長,他變了一個長官,很奇怪,你的經歷,他都沒有首長的經歷,你都有,他做立委,你也做過立委,比一比嘛,我們英文流行,你都很清楚嘛,我們叫track record,過去的經歷,對不對,你經歷這麼漂亮,做過台中市長,部會首長,做過立委, |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10096.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10115.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
外交對台灣最重要了啦台灣現在是外交最重要外交很辛苦來家來家做不成績啦來家做不成績啦有一種支持齁我一定會更有成績外交什麼成績你現在能不能講說第一個以後任內你當部長任內絕對不會有一條再斷條你這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10120.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10142.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我們全力以赴,顧好邦交,而且要繁榮我們的邦交國啊,讓他跟我們的關係更親密,不能夠...你再可以拿出來,官位拿出來,有什麼拿出來,我林佳龍你只要講到這樣,我死命感一剎那,靠去屁股,現金還要賺下去,一年內如果斷交一國,下台,敢這樣講,敢這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10146.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10153.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我們要先看比較正向來思考我們的外交工作外交部長沒有外交國你什麼叫外交你認同說臺灣如果邦交國變零沒關係你認同嗎我是全力以赴一定要不只固邦而且要要要龍邦 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10169.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10186.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
就是繁榮我們的,跟我們有交往的國家,特別是我們的邦交國,不是是孤狼,不是叫我們紅狗而已啦,要記得齁,真的是把他的國家的發展,我們台灣can help,好好地去做。我前陣子跟你說,我也是台中人,你做個台中市長,所以給你加一分,你知道嗎?結果你這樣,氣泡都不拿出來,氣泡拿出來,氣泡氣泡,不是農幫,加幫才對啊,我要加一個邦交國,幹嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10199.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10209.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我們一起來努力阿有啦現在很多世界的國家都知道說齁其實像宏都拉斯阿大家都知道阿他現在的白蝦就賣不出去啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10214.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10220.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
所以我們不是說大家...你還叫我來賣我台灣,我給你贈獎要發起感恩喔,高昂還會孤單啦,我們要彭理信去替這些國家講,我們怎麼發展啊後面你都沒好勒,敢不敢承諾斷交就要下台,你也不敢承諾,這樣變成無頭血體喔,斷交五六七八個都沒關係又不下台 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10238.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10264.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
請問您我們用做的真的不是用說的啦真的台灣的外交很艱辛喔外交做好才不會被斷交啊對不對老公打壓不是今天打好讓我再問你現在最危險的邦交國現在大家講叫停很危險啦守得住嗎叫停叫停叫停梵蒂岡對梵蒂岡守得住嗎他很危險你說他沒有很危險啊沒有很危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10267.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10269.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
當然我們要密切的關注如果紅黃綠它應該屬於什麼燈 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10294.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10311.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
我是認為只要我們努力大家都會覺得跟臺灣交往真的是彼此好互惠我剛才跟你亂講就是希望你講真話你都不敢講真話最後另外一個問你一個很重要的消息這一定要認真講我講實話川普說老共要打臺灣他要轟炸北京這句話你聽得怎麼樣你的感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10322.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10322.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
他現在跟拜登兩個在飆車打台灣牌飆車 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10350.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10361.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
拜登說只要打要出兵保衛台灣然後川普覺得這樣不好他要吃馬你打台灣我就轟炸北京嚇嚇叫 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10362.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10366.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
他們要保衛台灣這裡我們要感謝因為台海的和平與穩定涉及到是全世界的利害關係台灣就被打啦台灣用這個來刺激台灣台灣怎麼打都是輸家啦這個你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10393.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10417.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我們台灣就是真的我們是一個跟理念相近國家我們基本上讓大家覺得我們不是在改變現狀是對岸在改變現狀因此世界都要一起來面對這個問題你講這話都像保留一樣都抓不到都沒有給我都沒有回答到好啦那就最後一個你就是要讓我得到我要答案我就下去好不好你感覺川普講這個話是選舉語言嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10423.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10443.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
我覺得也不能這樣子就替他來斷言我們還是要持續關注這個發展拜登說要保衛台灣出兵因為從阿烏灣從越南之後他從來沒有在台灣海外出兵烏克蘭都沒有他會出兵台灣嗎這個看起來就是選舉語言嘛對不對那你給我一個答案嘛你是more than happy聽到還是happy聽到還是no comment |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10454.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10477.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
他們現在就是認為其實比較是像是說因為中共在改變現狀他們希望跟台灣一樣能夠維護現狀在這一點上面我們是立場一致可是至於說大國之間的不管是這一個涉及到的動不動兵的問題我們尤其在選舉我想台灣的我們是密切關注但我們也不去介入他們認真不認但是值得關注喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10482.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10482.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10514.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10516.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
接下來請黃國昌委員上台質詢。謝謝主席,部長好。我想請教一下部長,您接任部長的時候,跟前一任的部長吳釗燮有辦交接嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10540.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10561.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
因為我覺得昨天很奇怪我在問公共工程委員會主委陳金德的時候他說他跟前一任主委完全沒有交接所以導致我昨天問他的問題讓我很驚訝就是格言彼此之間沒有交接我昨天真的聽了嚇一大跳但這件事情沒有發生在外交部非常的好那第二個部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10562.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10586.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
您剛剛提到了說我們不僅重點不是說要不要增加邦交國而你提到一個概念說我們要榮邦就是讓我們的邦交國能夠過得更好更興盛這是你剛剛所講的嘛對 繁榮好 那你知不知道我們大概每一年我們的政府開發援助大概每一年花多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10588.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10617.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
當然我們的這個GNI的數字是還沒有符合國際的標準大概多少錢?就是0.06%所以大概多少錢?4.38億啊4.38億單位是什麼?美元對嘛那就大概就上百億的台幣嘛在這個上百億的台幣當中在我們目前的邦交國在拉美加勒比海 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10618.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10630.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
總共有幾個國家拉美加加勒比海大概7個國家7個國家我就以100億來算好了這7個國家大概佔這100億的百分之多少那不是這樣算因為人口跟那個對啦我說你這100億嘛大概有多少給這7個國家是50億70億60億你知道嗎我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10647.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10652.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
關心的議題也很重要因為今天我看到外交部的業務報告的時候老師說我有點驚訝因為我們現在僅存的12個邦交國有7個 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10676.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10695.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
在拉美跟加勒比海但是您知道您的業務報告提到這些國家有幾句話嗎?您知道嗎?我們八點第一點就是提要這個顧邦到榮邦啊對啊我跟委員也說明一下因為所謂國際援助不是只限於邦交國我們國際合作很多項目都在進行中沒有關係啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10697.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10712.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
我是支持公開透明有哪些到邦交國有哪些非邦交國多少錢做什麼事情清清楚楚的向國人報告為什麼我要從這個角度去切入來請部長看一下我會花一點點時間帶你進入狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10716.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10742.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
NCCRP是一個非常有名的國際反貪腐組織我2020年離開立法院了以後我成立了一個公益階級缺道者保護者協會開始跟這個國際反貪腐組織合作那那個時候我們開始調查的其中的一個project是中美洲銀行卡貝發現卡貝內部非常的腐敗把其他國家的善意 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10744.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10772.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
給他們的錢提供了援助去資助拉丁美洲那邊的獨裁政權甚至暗殺環保人士侵犯人權賄賂貪污錢全部都是從這個地方來的那這件事情為什麼值得關注啊因為來我們來看一下我們的盟友我們民主同盟最重要的朋友美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10774.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10801.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
2023年去年2月的時候CSIS對於卡貝提出嚴厲的批判竟然拿錢去打壓異議人士侵害人權那個時候對台灣也提出了一些呼籲呼籲說台灣不要傻傻的錢一直給卡貝用到哪裡去是不是拿去侵害人權是不是資助獨裁政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10803.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10824.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
他們希望台灣要建立一個非常清楚的監理機制來部長您看一下卡貝的創始會員國區域內的創始會員國區域外的會員國裡面有6個國家在蔡政府實習的時候斷交了那當然這中國扮演很重要的因素扮演很重要的因素那只不過說 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10826.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10848.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我覺得台灣一方面在援助他們但是在援助他們的時候他們裡面人權的狀況非常的差拿了那些錢去打壓他們自己國內的異議人士連美國都看不下去啦所以CSIS才會對台灣提出這樣子的建議嘛那我們跟OCCPR |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10850.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10876.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
所一起合作的調查報告在去年綜藝文版同時出來了以後台灣的立法院上一屆立法院也開始在關注這一件事情因為我們給卡貝真的太多錢了我們現在是卡貝單一會員國持股最高的我們是第一大股東喔美積現在已經給他兩億七千六百萬美元了好 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10877.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10884.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
因此上一屆的國會包括陳佳華委員包括邱承遠委員都要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10885.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10914.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
給卡貝的錢去哪裡花到哪裡要公開透明吳釗燮部長李淳市長都說這個要求非常的合理我們一定要來做而且我們要發揮我們在卡貝裡面的影響力不可以讓卡貝再拿錢去資助獨裁政體打壓人權這個價值非常重要特別台灣現在又希望用民主同盟跟相同價值的國家做朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10915.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10939.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那我在部長卸任前最後一次質詢我請教部長說那去年答應的公開透明說原著的計畫要在網站上面去公開然後結果我現在拿到的回應是說研議具體做法那請問為什麼研議這麼久這個事情部長有跟您交接嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10942.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10942.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
部長你覺得他們應該多久之內做出來? |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10971.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10999.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
他們只是說對這個草對吧我現在要跟部長報告的事情是因為雙方在檢視裡面的數字喔可能要再確認一下應該不是喔這個數字會有什麼問題我們給卡貝多少錢收到多少錢拿去給多少國家這個數字還要double check喔我們一起來催促啦能夠盡快讓他不是喔我催促很久啦去年上一屆國會就有立委提出要求了嘛上一屆的部長也承諾了嘛到今年喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11001.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11026.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
現在已經五月底了嘛然後卡貝是什麼?把台灣當作西韓欸我們是他第一大持股會員國在台灣資本市場卡貝木的資金是全球最高欸援助的金額給他也是最高但他怎麼對我們的來我給部長看一下我就上你們外交部的同仁給我所謂那個台灣專區的連結我一連結上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11028.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11054.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
有跟沒有一樣上面的項目全部都空白那不對啊我們明明給了這麼多錢阿為什麼項目會是空白我再給部長看一下卡貝跟南韓人家就做起來啦南韓比我們加入卡貝晚欸出的錢比我們少欸原住的金額比我們少欸卡貝跟南韓做的起來跟台灣做不起來部長你覺得這樣對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11056.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11085.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我們來努力盡快因為他已經答應了那這個草案也有雙方再確認一下那近期之內啦我們外交部的同仁跟卡貝那邊因為事實上我們自己也有派理事或董事常駐在卡貝嘛這個我想部長你應該有掌握嘛對我們都有理事或董事常駐在卡貝的要求他們做這件事情台灣作為第一大持股會員國原住的金額最高有這麼困難嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11087.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11114.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
我希望卡貝不是把台灣當提款機只認為我們是裡面重要的會員國如果是重要的會員國那我的問題就來了南韓為什麼可以台灣就在這邊推脫拉這很重要是不是請部長拜託同仁跟卡貝最後聯繫的結果他們回覆的內容是不是會後可以說明需要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11115.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11117.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
接下來請洪森和委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11147.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11174.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
好 那個 林部長您站在台上了部長 這當然你第一次到外交國防委員會來備詢那我先開始先有幾個問題先問你我看到前面有幾位委員有談到民主基金會的問題那第一個我想先問部長民主基金會是不是台灣非常非常重要的外交資源是 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11177.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11184.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
第二問題是臺灣整體我們的外交政策那最高的負責人是誰? |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11185.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11187.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
中華民國與中華人民共和國互不隸屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11210.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11211.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
會議結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11225.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11247.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
這個 我想這個剛剛在講的中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬的這個概念其實我想也不只是賴總統說我們這幾天其實看到大大小小的民調這句話拿去做民調基本上在台灣的民意支持度都是超過六成甚至有部分民調我們看到超過七成所以這代表這其實也是有民意基礎的一句話民意基礎的一個立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11248.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11275.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那我今天我們在談到民主基金會的問題的時候其實我並不想要談論任何個別的人選的問題但我只想說一件事情民主基金會如果是我們外交非常非常關鍵的資源的話那民主基金會的運作民主基金會經營的方向要不要符合剛剛說的四個堅持裡面中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬這樣的概念該不該 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11277.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11292.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
應該啊所以部長今天接下來當然明武基金會的執行長他要怎麼產生那不管誰推薦誰提名誰指定尊重誰我覺得這是一回事大家都可以推薦 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11294.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11316.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
韓院長可以推薦或其他的院長也都可以推薦王金平院長也可以推薦誰都可以推薦有各方的我覺得這都很好大家推薦各種人才來但我覺得一個很重要的事情是這一個民主基金會的掌舵者執行長他要是能夠認同中華民國與中華人民共和國互不隸屬這個立場的我覺得這是關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11319.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11337.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
如果他無法認同這個立場或他無法執行這個立場那就會產生在我們整體的外交政策裡面出現很大的憾惡甚至對我們的外交的成效成果很有可能會產生影響那請問最後要負責的是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11341.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11361.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
總統是國家元首對外代表國家那外交權當然是總統所以我要再強調一次民主基金會的人事任命的問題不是一個黨派的問題這是一個責任政治的問題這是一個責任政治的問題因為如果我們的外交沒有搞好我們的外交資源之間彼此漢格跟衝突大眾會找誰救責 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11366.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11390.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
會找外交部長啊會找總統啊這是為什麼大家一直說這個執行長的人選需要尊重總統的原因因為總統負責不是因為他是哪一個黨派的問題所以部長我今天不談個別人選我對個別人選沒有意見任何人推薦的人選都可以盡量來推薦但我認為這個執行長的人選他應該要認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11397.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11426.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
中華民國與中華人民共和國互不隸屬這個清清楚楚而且帶有民意基礎的立場應該沒有問題吧沒有問題所以我今天不談個別人選誰推薦的我都不介意但是我們認為他要能夠滿足這個立場他要能夠執行這個立場不該有衝突很簡單就民主基金會的問題我們就講到這個地方那接下來部長我現在要跟你談下面一個事情其實近期國際上面有很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11429.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11436.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
近期國際上有很多的討論都在討論一個是關於中共的跨境鎮壓部長你有沒有聽過這四個字有 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11438.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11460.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
這四個字跨境鎮壓其實中共的做法其實是很多元的包括可能將台灣人的出生地改成中國或者是我們也看過過去其實他們也曾經派人對我們的駐外人員動粗騷擾毆打台灣的留學生都有我們當然也發現比方在今年3月的時候當時還是駐美代表的蕭美琴這個副總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11461.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11484.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
他去到捷克的時候在布拉格機場裡面被中國的外交人員尾隨甚至會發生一些其實大家不願意看到的意外的可能也包括2000年的時候我們看到我們當時駐斐基的代表其實就有兩位中國外交人員闖入會場甚至毆打我們的外交人員今年4月的時候我們也看到台灣的留學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11486.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11487.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
部長現在各國都在討論中國的跨境鎮壓的問題我們外交部有沒有準備? |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11506.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11520.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
是有當然我們除了保護我們國人在國外的這個安全跟他的人權以外那對應我想中共想要透過一種常備 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11521.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11525.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
部長我們參考一下現在接下來看那個美國他們其實有提的類似像是一個跨境鎮壓的法案這裡面其實很明確要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11549.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11570.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
美國國務院應該要在每年提在人權報告中詳述跨境鎮壓相關的事件樣態而且外交部門也要提出應對跨境鎮壓的戰略也要編列預算培訓外交人員來面對跨境鎮壓的辨識跟理解甚至需要設立跨境鎮壓的通報的專線依照這些通報的專線來擬定未來制裁的名單這不是只有美國再往下 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11573.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11595.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
我們在歐洲的理事會2023年的6月其實他有一份文件談到歐洲理事會對跨境鎮壓反制的措施包括第一個要建立跨境鎮壓的定義和制定防制的指導方針再來是根據歐洲人權法院的判例來制定跨境鎮壓防制的建議那要讓這些行為人受到法律的制裁讓受害人得到賠償 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11597.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11612.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
還有包括Freedom House等等等國際的重要的NGO其實最近都在談論快進增壓這個主題部長 剛剛我如果剛才聽你講的話我覺得好像我們現在外交部針對相關快進增壓議題的因應好像還太抽象了 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11613.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11619.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
部長,臺灣絕對是中國要施以跨境這壓最核心的對象,絕對是最核心的打壓的對象,相比於現在西方國家,美國,歐盟,或者是其他的國家,包括現在NGO都不斷提出報告, |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11643.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11671.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
我為什麼這麼關心這個問題因為我們自己就有相關的國人僑民等等可能會遇到類似的問題而且可能是他們重點在打擊的對象重點在鎮壓騷擾監控的對象所以部長我覺得要請你跟包括我們的國安局國安單位甚至僑委會大家要一起針對跨境鎮壓的問題提出一個明確的應對的策略的方案部長這有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11673.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11701.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
應該沒有問題吧我們來推動好不好那我覺得我們可以來參考現在在國際上面包括這些專業的人權NGO包括幾個這個美國歐盟他們目前其實已經出來的相關的文件的做法但照理來說這件事情我做這件事情的防範我們不應該在這些國家之後我們照理來說應該比這些國家更敏感因為我們是優先被打擊的對象啊所以部長是多久的時間我們可以把這件事情有一個大致的草案出來部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11703.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11715.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
這涉及到當然也包括跨部會我們來跟國安會反映我們外交部的部分也會先展開研究三個月可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11716.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11717.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
好,可以。 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11749.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11751.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
謝謝 接下來請林德輔委員上台質詢謝謝主席 是不是請林部長部長 我請教 因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11774.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11796.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
那個CPTPP這個我們洽簽的進度當初是英國跟台灣都在2021年來提出陸會的申請那英國已經在2023年成功的加入CPTPP反觀我們遲遲沒有辦法加入因為CPTPP |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11798.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11824.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
這個成員國一共有12個那比如說日本、加拿大、英國、澳洲、紐西蘭等許多民眾覺得政府推動加入CPTPP這個具體的成果不明顯那請問外交部你回答本席CPTPP的成員國態度上支持我方的數量到底有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11827.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11851.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
應該有公開表示支持應該有差不多有將近一半有一半那因為同時我們跟英國進去那為什麼說我們到現在為止只有停留在還是這個當初想進去結果恰見的進入幾乎都等於是有跟沒有一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11852.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11867.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
那個部長你有什麼看法因為他基本上採取共識決嘛那當然有一些國家或者是想要申請的國家當然也會影響我們加入的一個情況那照你講這樣就是遙遙無期就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11870.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11886.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我們就是全力以赴在努力中因為輪值主席國也是一個重點因為他的態度像今年加拿大就比較積極我希望能夠有成果不要只有停留在 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11888.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11906.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
講講而已,然後敷衍敷衍,那個部長不會啦,我如果可以參加我們馬上就要參加當然啦,那問題是阿問其他也知道有些不一定是純粹貿易的因素嘛尤其前部長講話都是親在回回公共的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11908.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11930.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
20162016年美國總統大選當時蔡英文總統托人贈送三隻小豬的畫像給民主黨希拉蕾祝福她當選沒想到共和黨的川普獲勝那2020年民進黨人士昏昏高喊我川威武卻沒有想到是由民主黨拜登來獲勝 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11932.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11942.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
現在2024年外界預測今年7月美國共和黨將提名川普成為總統的候選人再次與拜登來對決 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11944.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11967.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
阿本席是希望說外交部阿對美的工作與美國的民主共和兩黨要保持等距阿的一個交往互動保持中立阿那個部長你有什麼看法阿對我們都是跟阿不管兩黨我們都是同時發展很好的關係啦就是都要做啦問題是你過去就壓一邊阿結果另外一邊當選阿這樣不是很尷尬嗎對不對部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11971.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11998.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
現在兩邊都來我希望你們維持中立啦因為其實像最近不管是跨黨派或是涉及行政立法單位其實對台灣的支持都是一致的啦部長包括撥款法案其實一個國家領導人像我們跟日本跟美國甚至於跟對岸我們要在三角的中間啦你跟我好我就拉近一點跟我不好我就疏離一些對不對這才是上上之策啦但是我們都壓一邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11999.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11999.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
為了整個我們國家的利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12024.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12049.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我們希望說一個國家領導人要有智慧那個部長現行國家機密保護法卸任總統或副總統儘管最長可達6年那馬英九前總統2016年卸任當時向當時的蔡英文政府申請出境並在當年11月美國總統大選結束後沒有多久就出訪美國進行演講 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12050.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12052.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
目前還沒有收到相關的需要外交部協助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12074.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12093.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
本席相信外交部絕大多數的同仁都奉公守法此次外交部派駐到聖路西亞替代役易蘭涉嫌架設販毒網站遭美國逮捕讓外界大感意外 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12094.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12120.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
據瞭解該替代藝男接受內政部替代藝男訓練時有驗過尿並沒有出現毒品的反應那請問部長涉及國家機密的外交部同仁不管在國內或外派他國若沾染毒品是否有可能成為國安的破口遭他人來掌控會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12122.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12142.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
是他是販毒啦他應該跟那個他是不是續讀或者是不太一樣但是當然我們內政部或議政司或相當跨部會在審查這些的一個這個例子是要拿回來做我們檢討尤其外交替代役的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12142.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12169.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
你外交部內部到底有沒有查核的機制有沒有查核的機制因為這個是內政部他的審查之後因為兵役嘛外派到外面你們當然有責任啊不是他派去就是對阿所以如果涉及違法的行為我們一定要嚴辦我是希望說你們內部要有一個控管查核的機制不是說你派來我就用你用你結果最後出事 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12169.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12170.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
是是謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12200.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12210.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
謝謝 接下來請鄭正前委員鄭正前鄭正前委員不在請請鄭天才鄭天才鄭天才委員不在請邱志偉委員上台質詢謝謝主席 有請外交部林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12224.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12251.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
謝謝部長 委員好林教授是我很敬佩的學者他寫篇文章是針對中國的外交政策的轉向他說這個戰狼有消退的現象從這個今年以來他的整體的對外的作為作法然後會重新修正到因為他第三個任期習近平第三個任期已經開始了會修正到江澤民或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12252.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12263.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
胡錦濤時代的這個所謂大國外交或是有這個名字叫魅力外交您的觀察中國的外交政策是不是有轉向或是有調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12265.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12286.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我沒有看到他什麼轉向只是說跟國際的衝突越來越大這個是對台灣的打壓也越來越大那當然他們對台灣打壓從來沒有手軟過我是說除了對台灣之外對其他的比方說對美的關係對歐洲的關係對其他這個邦交國的關係是不是也比過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12288.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12291.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
這明顯我的觀察不見得是正確 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12312.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12331.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
美中跟歐盟是這個戰略三角的關係對不對那美中當然是零和基本上是在國家利益上面是零和鬥爭嘛特別不管是拜登或者是川普那這種狀況之下他必須要取得歐盟的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12333.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12351.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
所以從戰略三角理論來看他這樣子改善對歐盟的關係我覺得是合理的他的外交策略一向就會有這樣子習近平他去匈牙利去法國對不對還有去另外一個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12353.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12353.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
塞爾維亞 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12369.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12369.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
多久沒有建立新的邦交國? |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12397.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12404.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
實質關係可以多面向從文化體育科技實質關係可以促進你要有個這個比較創新或新的事為就是邦交國plus計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12417.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12418.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況．並備質詢。． |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12446.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12447.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12465.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12490.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
是基於這個平等互惠的發展他們常常給我們這個給我們很多的這個國際上的壓力這個文攻武嚇或者外交上的壓力我們自己也要有相當相當的這個警覺意識那我說的新的思維就是邦交國PLUS希望你可以參考一下你心裡面也有譜但是這個逐步去推動那希望我們有新的邦交國能夠產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12493.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12515.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
另外去年我跟總統去史瓦帝尼總統出訪的時候總統有提到非洲計畫2.0但是從你的外交部業務報告之至我也提非洲這計畫2.0我在非洲有設服務處 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12518.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12534.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
雖然你們對索馬利蘭﹑奈及利亞﹑東非﹑南非﹑西非都有,北非你們想辦法去,非洲計畫2.0有沒有時間表可以什麼時候提出來? |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12535.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12563.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
因為蔡總統已經有說過希望盡快提出這個非洲計畫2.0目前的進度呢其實像下海海岸就是一個例子嘛他們也是重新去審視跟我們的關係雖然不是說建交的關係但是是可以就是說一起共同發展那以這個斯瓦帝尼來講那這次死亡又來台灣那大家對於長期的合作希望建立非南地區一個發展的一個典範 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12564.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12590.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
所以我們都會重新聚焦那這個時候呢大家就看到成果有沒有這個計劃有沒有計劃2.0有沒有這個東西有我這個期待啦有更多新的思維從經貿從各種層面不是傳統外交而已因為愛沙尼亞這個波海山谷就是愛沙尼亞有沒有射出那愛沙尼亞到底有沒有射出的可能性或有沒有這個計劃都有在談有在談有進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12592.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12617.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
大方向是希望能夠有更正式的關係但是因為這也涉及到國際政治很複雜三個國家都有不同的國情但是他們友好、友台的程度是差不多的從國會的互動愛沙尼亞他們也有友台的角度所以是不是加強力道一下促成愛沙尼亞能夠雙邊社畜 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12619.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12635.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
CBTP當然是這幾年是很關鍵當然對輪值主席國我們要有相關的這個更加強的作為但是CBTP這個所有成員國裡面我們都有住宿對基本上都有住宿要加強經貿人員是 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12638.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12654.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
這樣基本你要設定工作目標工作期程你要隨時去管考到底針對這些成員國你這些住宿到底你要做設立哪些目標達成哪些具體成果這個部長你要去執行管考因為他前線的作為很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12654.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12654.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12685.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12687.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
有請部長我想請教一下部長總統出訪邦交國重不重要重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12706.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12719.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
那總統我們總統過去會有時候藉由出訪邦交國來過境美國嘛那重不重要重要那重要原因是什麼為什麼總統出訪邦交國要去過境美國呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12721.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12741.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
因為現實上就沒有直航嘛沒有辦法直飛一定要藉由轉機那美國對我們轉機也是相當的重視跟禮遇對實際上我們也可以在這個總統來去訪問美國過境美國的這個過程當中也可以做很多的外交的一些成果的一些我們的展示嘛對不對維繫跟美國的良好溝通嘛對不對對好非常謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12746.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12765.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
所以因此我覺得像陳水扁我們的前總統他在卸任的時候然後他是在卸任的那一年的1月2008年你知道他訪問友邦然後有過境美國你知道過境美國哪裡嗎去回 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12768.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12782.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
我告訴你啦安克拉茲啦那時尚陳水扁過境美國也是要來展現說他卸任的時候那我們跟臺美的關係啊然後以及我們的外交成果他也是要做一個相當的一個成果展示嘛對不對當時的情況是啦這你不用擔心啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12790.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12805.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
然後第二個就是說馬英九前總統他在卸任前他是在2016年3月訪問瓜地馬拉跟貝里斯而且還去中美洲議會演講那去回他也過境美國過境美國哪裡你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12807.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12823.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
我告訴你還好休斯頓跟洛杉磯那他也對他的八年的外交政績做了總結因為實際上我們的外交關係美國是非常重要的對不對美國的萌移是我們非常重要的一部分所以這是為什麼要有所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12823.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12827.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
陳水扁和馬英九在卸任前一年都曾經過境美國,請問蔡英文總統卸任前一年有沒有過境美國? |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12841.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12857.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
今年是沒有,卸任的前一年,前一年當然是有,我告訴你沒有了,卸任的一年內,馬英九總統是在2016年3月,蔡英文總統實質上最後一次出訪過境美國是去年的3月, |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12869.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12872.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
陳水扁前總統卸任當年的1月馬英九前總統卸任當年的3月都出訪美國蔡英文總統我記得她已經多次來談說台美關係實際上是她任內達到最高峰那我想請問為什麼沒有過境的安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12896.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12922.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
不然這個是蔡總統的決定嘛對可是剛剛你也講過境外交其實是有意義的因為我也是從總統府這個曾經工作出來的嘛然後擔任副秘書長那時候其實總統出訪業務也是我的業務項目啦所以為什麼我那麼關心這件事因為我看歷屆總統這個不管池水扁馬英九都會藉由所謂過境美國來尤其在卸任的時候為自己的外交做總結 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12923.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12946.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那我是個人是覺得很可惜為什麼蔡英文總統這麼重視台美關係這麼強調台美關係順暢無礙可她卸任前的這一年之內她沒有做沒有出訪然後過境美國呢因為台美關係都相當穩定然後我們邦交國的關係他有這個到瓜地馬拉跟貝里斯嘛那剛去嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12948.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12962.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
那如果說這要過境的這個路線啊就沒有嘛所以我要這樣講沒關係啦我跟你講放一半因為蔡總統已經卸任了那蔡總統也是這三任總統唯一在卸任的一年內卸任前的一年內沒有過境美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12963.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12988.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
這一點我覺得當然會讓我們覺得是不是臺美關係之間我們是不是少了一個重要的一個展現的一個機會那當然原因是蔡英文總統不想去還是美國不讓她去還是什麼樣有什麼壓力我不知道那可能是你們外交部要去來去對外面來說明當然過去就過去了那我就要想請教一下那戴慶德總統他新當選總有過境美國的計畫吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12993.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13009.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
我們外交部每一年都會有規劃元首出訪那現在正在評估中評估中啊那我想請教一下你來聽聽看陳水扁總統2000年上任的時候他是在幾月過境美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13012.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13013.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
我想請教一下我們部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13041.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13069.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
那我們的賴清哲總統他的這個出訪計畫跟過境美國計畫已經在安排當中了嗎現在在呃在總統6月哦如果你要能夠這個早一點的話可能時間也蠻趕的如果是6月的話對不對8月大概還有點作業時間啦對不對還有點作業時間但是我真的要問部長一件事情你知道陳水扁我們過境外交過境外交前提是什麼部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13072.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13094.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
過境外交的前提 要有訪問點才有過境點你知道我們陳水扁他2000年首次過境外交出訪的波明尼加 尼加阿瓜 哥斯大尼加 查德跟甘比亞 布吉納法索請問這些邦交國現在在哪裡 還是邦交國嗎 全部都不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13095.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13108.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
所以我要跟大家講說實際上我希望我們的部長也提醒一下因為你要安排過境外交第一個是要先安排出訪國家但我們出訪國家坦白講選項比以前多還比以前少 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13110.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13111.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
邀請外交部長林佳龍報告業務概況． |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13140.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13167.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
我們的吳部長是邦交國大減計畫腰斬計畫他很成功22國掉到剩12國他腰斬計畫很成功部長多一個就好邦交國PLUS計畫有沒有信心我們來從故邦到榮邦大家一起來努力我們當然有個目標希望能夠增加你還是要像邱志偉委員這麼樣的一個主張要能夠有雄心壯志至少不要腰斬好不好可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13169.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13170.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
接下來請鍾瑞雄委員 請洪孟楷委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13189.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13206.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
部長已經先就位了,也是我們老朋友啦,我們之前在交通委員會跟交通部林佳龍部長有很多的討論,不過部長我們先回顧一下當時102卷第一期的這個公聽會,你有印象嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13207.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13231.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
有 有嗎 因為您在那邊有發言其實我想國會改革紛紛擾擾有在野時候有執政時候大家都有主張但特別我想請林佳龍部長也是之前林佳龍委員來看一下他當時怎麼說林佳龍委員這是您的逐字稿我就先標題讓你知道這是您所說的話來 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13234.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13250.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
您當時認為最重要是立委對政府官員的質詢如果說官員只在那10分鐘當個木頭人被罵幾句事後什麼事情都沒有發生這個質詢沒有法律上的約束而如果官員說謊更是要在國會殿堂所做的不實證 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13252.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13279.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
此或是虛偽證據負起刑法上政治上的責任所以執政執行權很重要所以當時你主張官員在國會如果說法說謊要有形式上跟政治上的責任到目前為止你還是一樣主張嗎對執行權就是要強化那他當然必須要能夠有他的效力是所以當時你的主張到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13281.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13303.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
國民黨跟民眾黨我們通過的修正再修正動議25條幫您達成了官員只限官員如果來立法院說謊或是陳述不實的話會有形式上跟政治上的責任來我們再看下一個您當時也有提到說不只政府官員人民社團法人也要善盡公民的義務及責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13305.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13315.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
所以如果人民社團法人為他的不實證詞或拒絕來就應該要科與罰則至少要科10萬元以下的罰款 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13316.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13341.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
而且你那時候講如果人民社團法人做隱匿或是虛偽的證詞還要負刑法上的責任也就是一年以下或是一顆一百萬元以下到目前為止你還是這樣主張嗎是我跟委員說明因為要調閱權這是大法官的解釋那你立法院要行使職權你要強化你的執行權要讓那個調閱權可以有效 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13342.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13349.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
那這個是一面然後配套的就是你的聽證制度要改革我們現在的公聽會其實有時候是沒有什麼我們自己其實立法院也必須要去強化它所以這個是對應的那但是這不涉及司法的調查權這不涉及喔 跟司法的權來 佳龍部長您先稍等喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13365.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13378.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
這個我們現在討論都是公聽會或是聽證會嘛您當時主張是人民如果來做隱匿或是虛偽的證詞還要負刑法上的責任也就是一年以下或是一科一百萬元以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13379.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13383.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
所以公聽會人民如果來做隱匿或是虛偽證詞就要負刑法上的責任一年以下或是一顆一百萬元以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13397.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13413.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
而且對於反對強化立法院調查權的立委都應該公佈讓社會知道問問他們為什麼自我閹割這個是有前提跟配套我就講是說是大法官解釋你們質疑於調閱權的行指就是資料本身啊不是司法的調查權喔這個要把它分開對沒有錯但是現在都在討論的是聽證權或是公聽會嘛對不對所以本席可以很負責任的告訴您在 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13424.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13445.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
這一次的國會改革再修正動議裡面人民社團或是法人如果說來聽證會及他有做虛偽不實的話是沒有刑責的比您當時在十幾年前所主張的還要輕微你當時主張是要一年以下對於人民有一年以下的刑責 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13447.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13460.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
本席也很負責告訴你反對強化立法院調查權的立委就是民進黨團現在的51席立委問問他們為什麼要自我閹割我們立法院的調查權 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13462.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13481.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
林佳龍部長根據委員報告 因為我的內容跟你不一樣 我有個上位的權利分立一樣依據憲法上對於五權的規定所以有關於具有司法性質的調查權 那是屬於司法院跟監察院在資料的調閱權上面 我們要讓它有效 必須強化國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13483.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13483.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13507.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13531.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
來 謝謝因為外面都有斷章取義我也利用這個機會說明一下沒有問題給你說明我現在還不會跟你講說你現在算是藐視國會不過本席這個我順便說明我沒有藐視國會的文字出現在我的這個我知道你沒有把這個是藐視國會這個我有一說一你從頭到尾你在12年前的這個公聽會上沒有講到藐視國會這個我還你清白來 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13534.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13549.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
部長拉回來啦前兩天本席看到外交部有一個非常好的記者會這個記者會講是說我們也加入了全球隱私執法合作協議那主要的目的跟方式是要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13550.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13552.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
全球隱私執法合作協議 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13567.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13568.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
主要的重點 盼加強各資的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13586.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13615.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
是那我想請教現在要推動並且也有要跟其他的國際夥伴這邊要共同推動隱私執法的合作強化民眾的各自保障那這樣子外交部的具體作為會不會跟我們最近的這個新聞有執政黨的執行長傳出說掌握了公民活動群眾各自的監控會不會跟我們外交部加入這個合作協議的初始初終相抵觸 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13616.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13620.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
因為你提的是個案我對這個個案我並不清楚所以我也沒辦法在這裡針對這個個案來評論但是原則性我們當然台灣不只是說加入這個協議我們也是對於這個聯合國的兩個公約 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13633.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13651.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
還有相關對於隱私保障我們有一整套的法律制度擔不擔心我們國際友邦或是說加入這樣協議的其他的國際會員問起說怎麼會執政黨的執行長居然會去有掌握群眾各自的一個新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13652.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13666.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
因為我不清楚這個個案,所以我也不予評論。在原則上,我們當然要台灣做一個民主法治的國家,透明,或者對隱私的保障。那下一個,因為您之前也是外交部跟曾經擔任過交通部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13666.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13693.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
那之前外交部跟交通部有共同宣誓希望能夠推動再一次的來參與ICAO也就是國際民航組織是國際民航組織相對來講我覺得是非常重要因為對於我們台灣來講這一些都是第一手的資訊那現在換您擔任外交部長了過去可能大家也有講說上一任的外交部長戰狼性格很強那您現在有沒有信心任內有機會我們參與國際民航組織ICAO |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13696.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13716.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
我們就是努力嘛,全力以赴,因為這些國際組織都涉及到很多的對中共的一個影響那另外對於國際法的解釋,所以我們是朝這個目標來努力,因為這個國際銀行組織涉及到的其實非常的安全是跨越國境的因為我覺得您是最有資格講這個話的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13718.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13731.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
您擔任過交通部長之前的民航業務是您主管現在您又擔任外交部長所以能夠對外發聲並且來積極展現參與國際民航組織您是最有資格有多少把握? |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13732.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13747.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
我們努力,因為其實這個組織我以前當然也包括我當交部長跟美國有協調要去推動,但事實上當然因為這個組織的秘書處,他本身目前的狀況我還很需要去再突破。 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13748.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13749.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
接下來請楊瓊英委員上台諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13781.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13784.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
首先來請教部長目前我們的邦交國有多少國?2016年總統蔡英文上任的時候我們的邦交國是幾個? |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13807.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13819.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
大概是22個左右那當時的蔡前總統喊了一個口號叫做踏實外交為策略所以最後留下了8年結果是10個國家斷交 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13824.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13852.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
這是慘痛的記錄當然我們不希望如此我們也知道我們有困境現在剩下的12個國家在這個前部長的時候呢那就斷交了8個所以在這樣的一個情況之下新政府對於整個邦交國的策略尤其您上來您又非常有經驗您有什麼策略您預計要跟以往不一樣的方向是什麼是 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13853.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13875.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
我可以跟委員講大概有三個方面當然一個我們把故邦提升到榮邦不只是說好像為了鞏固這個邦交我們要繁榮這一個邦交國所以我們臺灣的經驗跟發展模式可以幫他找到其實對這第一點第二點我是覺得藉由像美國日本跟澳洲我們一起來榮邦 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13876.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13896.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
第三點我覺得經貿外交是台灣現在其實最可以在我們的邦交國上使力其實包括非邦交國也都很想跟台灣合作你看中東歐包括像捷克、立陶宛雖然不是正式的邦交國但其實我們的外交關係不輸於一般的邦交國 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13898.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13921.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
所以部長你這樣回答我也歡喜聽到你是樂觀與對本來就是要樂觀與對我們才有戰力那要請教部長那目前現在的這個國安會的秘書長吳前部長他在受訪的時候他有說他有說他在卸任的時候他說有兩個邦交國短期沒問題長期有隱憂請問你有掌控這個資訊嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13926.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13944.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
對這12個邦交國我每一個都很關注因此狀況我都有掌握他所謂的短期沒問題長期有引誘他已經點出兩個邦交國我們不希望發生所以這個引誘的狀況是在520之後的變化嗎?你掌控嗎?有沒有這回事? |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13945.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13962.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
其實每一個都很重要都要努力我以前部長所說的有沒有這回事你有沒有掌控這兩個國家因為我不清楚他所謂的這兩個邦交但是是哪一個具體國家對我來講12個邦交國我們都要努力不只故邦而且榮邦 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13962.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13963.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13980.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13997.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
受訪的時候說兩個邦交國短期沒問題長期有隱憂表示是有這回事所以我也希望你充分去了解在這12個國家當中到底到底這兩國你必須要去掌控因為知道問題才能夠解決問題贊不贊同這樣的一個論點 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14001.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14022.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
是,其實最近520總統就職典禮來的國家,我們都有機會跟他進行很深入的討論這是好的現象,但是我還是提點部長,我以前部長所說的這兩個國家短期沒問題,長期有問題,有隱憂,這個你務必要嚴正以待,這是我給你的建議,可以接受吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14023.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14023.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
吳哲 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14033.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14033.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
有責謹慎應對之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14059.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14083.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
我們目前加入的進度究竟是如何?因為我們也了解到中國大陸比台灣早一週來申請所以我們的進度是如何呢?我們就是跟今年的輪值主席國加拿大有很密切的在諮商那因為他是採取共識決可是怎麼樣進入工作小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14084.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14093.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
如果能夠進行的話,我們就能夠就實時面跟這個CPTPP的國家展開一些諮商那這樣就可以具體解決一些問題這個是蠻關鍵的一步 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14099.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14123.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
因為CPP、TPP對於我們整個國家來講是非常的重要所以掌控的時間大陸方面比我們早一個禮拜神奇那我方要怎麼應對我想這個對台灣的經濟很重要在外交部的工作應該是列為重點工作之一吧所以一起加油那針對於本學非常關心的iCare因為我們台中也有我們的機場 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14125.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14132.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
埃克爾德國際民航組織本席認為非常的重要請問目前參與的進度如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14135.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14161.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
因為民航涉及到跨國的飛航的安全所以確實台灣沒有加入是世界的損失那我們也積極在爭取台灣也非常的符合標準那現在還是中共的打壓所以他們秘書處在處理這些事情上面當然還沒有辦法做突破可是我覺得最近對於2758號決議聯大這個決議我想也是一個很重要的攻防 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14161.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14184.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
因為中共企圖用所謂的聯大2758號決議去等同於一中原則可是包括美國跟很多的民主國家認為這個並無涉臺灣的參與所以支持臺灣來申請加入包括RKO WHO UNFCCC 另外是 INTERPOL |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14184.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14210.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
這四個最重要的就是它是一個國際性的一個組織部長你談到這裡這就是我們台灣人的精神台灣人的勇敢你一定要往前走你要看WHA政府還是帶領我們三黨各排一位跟著部長一起我們是不放棄任何的機會這個跨黨派一起走出去這也是很令人感動的這個部份本期還是希望新政府新氣象新部長有新作為本期還是期待之繼續加油 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14211.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14233.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
最後一個議題本席要請教外交是內政的延伸這是您的方向那之前的吳前部長他在他的推特裡頭他也說了媒體封他是一個戰狼部長那你認為他自己也認可說魔法部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14234.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14237.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
他隨時會用他的署名JW在外交部的帳號發言親上火線槍下,您會延續這樣的方式嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14257.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14257.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
臺灣加油!謝謝! |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14290.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14292.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
接下來請武力華委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14303.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14324.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
謝謝主席,有請部長。謝謝部長。部長,辛苦了。很高興看見您,感覺充滿希望。謝謝您。剛才有提到,我們有12個邦交國。想要請教部長,我不知道您有沒有了解,其中有哪幾個國家是南島語族國家? |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14325.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14343.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
當然在太平洋這個比較南島的話就有三個國家嘛是對呀 帛琉那馬紹爾群島還有這個土瓦魯對 四分之一嘛是 對十二分之三對 十二分之三 四分之一那您知不知道南島語族國家占多少的人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14346.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14346.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
將近4億 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14361.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14376.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
好,那我是這樣子想啦,你應該很清楚,如果以其中帛琉來講,他截至目前,他跟蘭嶼達烏族那邊,語言的相似度還維持在60%,60%很高喔,就是表示還是能夠通喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14381.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14403.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
我們越來越清楚知道說很多的南島國家也承認跟台灣有關係甚至都會說是他們的母親那我也知道其實有很多的南島語族的國家他其實對亞洲人是敵視的他不太信任因為他覺得華人太聰明 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14404.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14422.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
所以如果在這樣的狀況之下您同不同意我們臺灣原住民族的族人非常適合來擔任我們南島國家的外交官很適合啊很適合嘛那您知道有嗎有啊誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14427.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14449.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
就是到,因為是蔡總統任內嘛,因為我也是無人鎖大使,所以我知道有一位無人鎖大使嘛,可是他真的有到國外去嗎?他有薪水嗎?沒有對啊那您覺得這個是尊重原住民的做法嗎?因為無人鎖大使是做的設計事項,當然也可以做一些檢討跟看怎麼樣來精進能不能有正式的外交官? |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14454.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14474.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
其實台灣的外交官他有公務員的考試特別是外交特考當然這個正式的制度目前就是有他取材的標準那正式的制度能不能夠特別的來去做我為什麼這樣講其實原住民的背景的我們的外交部的同仁表現都很優秀7位那要把著啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14476.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14503.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
提拔我特別來看一下要把他們挑出來好不好讓他能夠找到最能發揮的位置因為他有這個背景我這樣子說的原因是其實我們有很多外交的空間其實是在夾縫中求生存要找到生機那對我來講我看到這幾年像這個原住民族經濟貿易合作協議這個IPECA它其實是在2022年的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14505.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14533.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
原民會發動那去加入臺灣紐西蘭加拿大澳洲這四個國家是創始會員國也是國際首見的第一個那未來當然我們樂見有更多的國家投入但是這是一個我們參加很重要簽署的一個協議可是我們來看一下2008年部長其實有一位叫Yuhani |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14534.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14563.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
那是陳水扁總統的時候他有把這一位尤哈尼派駐斐濟是我國第一位原住民的駐外大使16年來僅此一位其他都叫無任所大使所以部長您了解我的意思我真的是希望說您能不能夠在這個當中去看到我們國家的機會這是很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14566.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14583.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
當然我不要講文化的層面我舉個例子對我們原住民台灣原住民如果以目前16族來講沒有一個族群是我們可以講無稷不租殺豬對我們的婚喪喜慶是很重要的可是你去看這些帛琉也好土法魯也好跟我們一模一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14584.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14599.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
他們也是都很需要殺豬所以其實我們在文化的交流語言的交流很重要的是他們對台灣原住民是信任的他們真的覺得我們是有血緣的他們很願意來跟我們做朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14600.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14624.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
所以我在這個地方真的是強烈的建議因為我們的賴總統他其實也有特別的提到他說重視栽培原住民特別是外交這一塊所以我是希望說我們來重視好不好那部長我們想辦法把它落實好不好我真的是希望我們能夠有正式的原住民外交官再多一點可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14625.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14630.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
接下來我就是想要延伸因為像我們有一個這個叫做我們台紐的經濟協定那特別是很感謝這個紐西蘭他有特別在FTA當中去增加一個原住民專章 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14646.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14664.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
那這個為什麼我們覺得很珍貴因為這是第一個我們能夠跟非邦交國的一個正式經濟協定所以部長你應該了解這個協定是很重要的對吧很正式吧所以我們覺得很重要啊那現在的話我就想要請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14665.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14694.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
我們在陳水扁總統的時候2002年他有簽一個原住民族與臺灣政府的一個新夥伴關係在肯認他有完成協定簽署協定簽署你剛才說協定是很正式的協定簽署所以我因為很多人這些年都一直問說政府在騙我們民進黨都在騙我們簽那個都是假的一點意義都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14694.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14700.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
部長請問這個2002年完成的這個協定簽署他是國家文件嗎是啊現在原轉會齁其實在蔡總統這8年來是落實了很多裡面的規定所以部長這個是一份正式的國家文件對吧因為我要確認這件因為好多人都會問我們而且都會揶揄都會嘲諷 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14722.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14736.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
先是把宣誓性或是說這種儀式怎麼樣落實為在制度面的保障這個是在原轉會裡面其實真的效果也不錯然後蔡總統當時最後一次開會的時候賴副總統也在場他也表達會繼續來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14739.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14757.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
好,那我想說謝謝部長您今天給予我很多的回應那這些回應對我們原住民族來講都非常的珍貴那謝謝您,未來呢,原住民的外交工作還有外交人才、外交官希望你能夠多多的來提攜 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14758.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14777.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
我可不可以簡單回應一下委員其實台灣我們講台灣是南島語系所以我們除了是西南向的國家也是南島語系的國家所以我在這次業務報告我有特別把原住民族的外交有列進來那台灣就是說can help或台灣can lead |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14778.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14778.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
謝謝部長 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14803.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14822.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
接下來請李博毅委員李博毅李博毅委員不在請陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇委員不在我們今天已登記質詢的委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有林益君委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報請相關機關已書面於兩週內答覆委員口頭質詢未及答覆的部分或要求補充資料者 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14831.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14841.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
亦請相關單位以書面與兩週內提供委員令約定期限者,從其所定本日會議到此結束,散會謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14936.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14937.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
受到不同等 |