| IVOD_ID |
159697 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159697 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-27T10:48:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-27T11:06:44+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:17:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ae27c1b40c0db9007715fe5d9fb7ff1b7648dfe0a0275fc5b9e3eaef4bc790333e63146d6c8f82985ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:48:45 - 11:06:44 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、國家發展委員會、教育部、法務部針對「少子女化衝擊，如何營造友善托育環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 謝謝主席 主席辛苦 主席今天排這個案非常的棒也代表少子化事情我們都還有很多努力改善的空間所以請理事好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
21.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
44.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
也是剛剛一句話很感動每一個都是我們的心肝寶貝那每一個竟然都是我們心肝寶貝那我們就面對這樣的少數化環境然後採用全世界各國比較優劣的政策套在我們台灣是否可行那其他的各國如果相關的政策是執行不當不好那我們當然就不能引用錯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
64.894 |
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還是重蹈覆轍的這樣的政策在台灣實施嗎應該是怎麼說才對嗎那好我要講少子化的過程裡面我們先來討論剛剛就最後黃委員在詢問的這種劣童的事件是否只有加重其刑者的手段而已他可能是要還是要全面向來做討論應該最好就是要事先的預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
68.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
97.857 |
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然後如果一旦發生之後就應該有相對應的這些措施來讓這樣傷害降到最低嘛那新北市跟台北市當時為了承接這個小朋友互踢皮球這個大家應該記得猶新嘛怎麼會發生這個事情然後這個事情到底公部門又站在衛生最高的主管機關還有教育的主管機關還有法務的這個主管機關到底三個單位做如何相關的應用措施不讓這樣的憾事持續在發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
98.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
101.506 |
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有過共同檢討之後得出相對應的結論可以讓我們簡單扼要清楚一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
106.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
128.577 |
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報告委員 這個部分陳文剛我們市長剛剛有報告就是說這裡面有現在有我們那個兒少權利權利法裡面有加重刑責的規定另外在刑法裡面也有那這個部分是不是請是委員針對那兩岸的檢討我們都有一個重大的一個檢討機制那目前看起來說的確在橫向在地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
129.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
154.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
橫向聯繫上面還有一些環節可以再加強那我想這個部分已經目前透過不管監察院也好這個行政機關也好我們都加緊在這個部分做一些防範那另外對這個特別是性侵害的議題那將來在修正上面可能不能單純就單一事件甚至還有一些潛在被害人這個部分我想法務部他們也做了一些調整以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
156.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
183.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
好,是您自己提到了嘛,剛才講列統,你現在講到信心的部分的那你現在講的最後的結論是華為部現在在做相關調整那衛務部、那教育單位有做什麼樣的積極的因應的一些作為,有嗎?來,是不是請教育部,來來,請教育部跟華為部就上來好不好因為他剛剛特別提到嘛,信心的部分我們先提到列統致死,那現在提到信心,那我就來請教你們信心的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
185.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
188.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
現在出現了一個新的名字叫劣童者各位聽過吧 劣童者他們在潛伏學童的周遭用自己師長、長輩的權勢去傷害幼童可能會做性侵 也可能會做暴力甚至以劣童相關的一個行為所以應該各位都還耳熟能詳 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
209.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
229.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
台北市幼兒園毛案 毛俊生案 都清楚嗎目前到底是累積幾名受害者我們現在就來檢視了啦 好不好你們所有相關的因應作為我們現在目前 我們的幾乎是39名39名 39名是自己掌握還是監察院的新聞稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
232.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
248.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
是在整個通報案件裡面掌握的通報案件掌握的從2022年最初最初是查獲6名血統累積2022年兩年過後現在累積到39名這是具體有查出來的會不會再有遺漏的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
249.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
266.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
會不會還有潛在受到學童的數量會再爆出來我想潛在可能包括有聽聞或目睹這些都是那我想目前我知道北市政府他們有成立一個兒童的輔導專案叫幼童的輔導專案 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
269.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
288.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
針對這種潛在的被害人還是有機制可以去輔導好 那我們等一下就來討論輔導的機制在哪裡好不好判決書上有清楚記載證明狼屍仗著自己是負責任的孩子然後又有管理監視器的權限 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
290.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
315.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
華為部針對這樣有前科還是說有這樣跡象的情況之下怎麼去讓持有監視器權限的人有相關的規範嗎有嗎這個事件是他因為有監視器的權限才無地放矢到極致那這事情發生之後華為部有針對這部分跟衛護部跟教育部來做相關的研擬這部分要怎麼解決要怎麼處理要怎麼因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
317.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
342.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
報告委員那有關於監視器的部分是屬於教育部的權責那我們法務部的部分呢其實就是在當下我們是就是及早啟動相關的偵查機制然後盡早去做一個保全證據的動作我知道因為我的時間有限啦抱歉啦齁我說說這一個這一個這一個加害人他本身就是有掌握監視器的權限那我們知道這個案子是這樣那我們相關的單位有針對這個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
345.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
372.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
的這個點有去做相關的未來的因應作為嗎有嗎因為他有掌握監視器的權限所以他才可以無敵放矢到極致嘛有嗎那報告委員因為在幼兒園裡面他並沒有強制一定得要設監視器但是如果他有設監視器的話那國教署是有一個注意事項引導縣市政府應該怎麼做後續的處理同時也要求縣市政府在我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
372.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
390.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
注意事項後面再訂定相關的規範所以目前是有相關的引導機制是 相關的引導機制但是因為我們沒有強制他一定要架設這個監視系統所以我們也沒有辦法去規範這個有使用監視系統權限的人他必須要有什麼樣的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
391.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
420.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以就沒有嘛這個事件就是這樣發生嘛所以我們針對這個事件我們沒有特別再去做相關的一些討論跟因應嘛簡單講就這樣嘛 有就有 沒有就沒有好不好我的時間有限齁所以我要表達說郵照法沒有強制要求一定要但是如果有設一定要有相關的處理機制包含他影像的保存怎麼去做調閱那教育部國教署是有一個注意事項給縣市政府來引導他們包含學校跟幼兒園 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
421.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
432.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
來遵循以上如果有事他就是要遵從相關的機制去做這樣的保存嘛對不對那我談的是保存的這個人就是加害者你們怎麼規範我的問題就很這麼簡單你應該是回答我這個點才對嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
437.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
457.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
沒有 就是沒有嘛這個事件就是他嘛那這個事件你們就是沒有處理嘛簡單講就這樣 這第一件事情請次長聽看看啦所以這一個藍絲財政院犯案毫不掩飾嘛他可以利用小朋友午休時間還是等待家長接送時間就可以馬上上下其手速度之快 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
460.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
488.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
數字是變而且小朋友午休的時間是單獨的小朋友一張床嗎還是一個通鋪而且他是在通鋪裡面做對小朋友信心的事情你們有調查嗎在他做這個事情的過程裡面旁邊的小朋友有看到這些小朋友要怎麼處理他雖然沒有被直接侵害但是他有看到你們有掌握有如何做處理簡單回答我就好 簡單時間的關係好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
490.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
516.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
有嗎就有關在幼兒園裡面他的睡鋪究竟是通鋪或床鋪目前在設施設備標準裡面他沒有建議一定得要做什麼處理但是要有相關的這個機制那另外就是說對幼兒部分來講我們是加強對孩子自身保護的部分一定會有那園內如果有任何人看到有這樣的事項來講目前的通報是要在24小時裡面一定要通報他如果沒有通報在幼照法裡面的罰則是 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
517.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
541.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
你怎麼一直講我們都沒有辦法對上話就很奇怪了偵查院調查報告你們剛才跟我講的受害的小朋友39位那我現在跟你講的已經有間接的小朋友你們有掌握嗎?有嗎?那我只把那個死警講給你聽他或許是在一個通風裡面做這樣的一個行為那也有小朋友看到你們有掌握嗎?你就簡單回答這樣就好了嘛有嗎?如果在這邊再延伸出來會有多少人? |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
547.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
562.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
會有多少人你們有實際坐下來好好去討論我簡單講一個例子就好嘛一個班級可能一個小朋友他因為家庭的因素他因為意外他因為車禍他因為因為家長殺傷自殺這個小朋友這一班可能全班都要接受輔導了現在是一個加害人在做性侵的行為的時候另外很多小朋友又看到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
577.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
604.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個部分你們有處理嗎你們有掌握嗎先講掌握再講應應再講處理啦有嗎報告委員所有的氣象都是教育局在做調查如果調查之後這個班級有目睹相關的我們目前會補助相關的輔導經費可以來協助這個幼兒園的運作怎麼叫做你們有相關的輔導經費現在在講什麼我在問你前置作業你再跟我講你有經費所以你們背三的還不夠就對了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
607.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
612.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你怎麼一直不針對我的問題來做回答呢?你怎麼一直不針對我的問題來做回答呢?你怎麼一直不針對我的問題來做回答呢?你怎麼一直不針對我的問題來做回答呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
624.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
648.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我只是說 他有直接影響的 直接侵害的現在跟你講到間接的 你們怎麼做舞蹈然後掌握迷路器這一個人 你們怎麼去做相關的一些營業再規範我現在聽起來這兩個面向幾乎都沒有啊你再跟我講所有相關的預算去做什麼你們就沒有去掌握你有預算邊站的地方 你也是一樣沒有辦法去申請啊沒有辦法去執行啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
650.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
661.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你看喔 針對目睹的狀況你們有掌握嗎我就focus在這地方目睹的狀況的幼兒你們有掌握嗎沒有就講沒有嘛我剛跟委員報告因為所有細項是教育局在做查查但如果說他們真的有目睹的孩子我們在輔導的機制裡面是可以來做處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
680.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
703.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你有找過他們有沒有教育局跟你回報還是你主動去跟教育局了解說你們有針對這一塊去做處理嗎?有嗎?沒有就沒有嘛高院判決書上又寫的這是另外一個層次問題,你再聽一下判決書上又寫得很清楚其中受害的B童是因為以受害的A童跟自己的媽媽透露 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
704.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
728.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
有看到狼屍在捕摸米桶也因此才發現米桶也受害這是慢慢延伸出來的這些都是直接受害的喔那我剛剛講的是間接受害的我用了一個班級可能有其中一個小朋友他因為車禍死亡他因為家庭巨變他因為公共意外死亡全班都必須接受輔導喔對不對那這個間接的有目睹的你們怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
733.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
750.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你們有掌握嗎人數是多少你簡單跟我回應一下就好嘛有處理嗎有掌握嗎跟委員報告分兩個層次一個是具體個案以台北市信義區那個案件因為案發之後他很快教育局就讓這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
751.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
764.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個機構停招然後解散那所以在這個案件上面的確那個孩子我們說的哀傷輔導這一部分的確在那個情境下面是沒有辦法進行但北市也發現這個問題因此他在幼兒部分他做 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
768.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
793.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
做了專業輔導的一個專案也就是說這些孩子可能到移到其他學校去上課如果有需要他還是可以申請這個部分是北市確實有掌握這個部分那我覺得委員監的那針對整個制度部分我們可以在判決書中其實你們如果有細看你們確實有做下來把相關的資料彙整完之後這個寫得清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
795.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
809.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
既有性侵的同時 也有暴力的對待那我們要不要詢問一下兩個層次來談性侵的有幾位被暴力對待的有幾位間接看到性侵的有幾位被暴 間接看到暴力的對象有幾位你們有盤整出來嗎有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
813.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
841.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
你現在是面對多大的群體受害的情況之下直接跟間接的有相關的站在衛生主管機關、教育主管機關、保護主管機關去做好好的探討、調查、探討然後研究然後來做相關的一些因應嗎?有嗎?監察院在2月5號要求台北市政府保護部督促所屬的這些單位重啟行政調查及司法偵查 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
842.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
865.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
怎麼會搞到這樣所以我在這邊要求我要請召委我們一起要求衛福部、教育部、保護部除了繼續調查有沒有其他受害的血統必須針對110年10月一直到112年的7月這個幼兒的小朋友要存立的專案輔導因為不僅是受害者其他與狼屍接觸到的小朋友會不會因為其言行受到影響都要追蹤與關懷有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
868.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
894.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
如果沒有一個月一個月給我們完整的你們怎麼樣的應應的作為趕快去補強然後給委會做一個報告可以嗎可以嗎可以啦齁不只如此不是只有台北市這一案還有新北市還有這個台中某國小棒教練姓七學童那新北市的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
896.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
922.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
在昨天的報紙就出來嘛對不對利用上為期時間侵犯學童目前發現有12名學童受害整個時間誇長達三年這個是誇兩年另外新北市誇三年喔會不會跟台北市一樣陸續爆發更多而且你知道報道中家長特別管理當主動學院校方伺服可以提供諮商資源時校方輔導是 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
924.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
946.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
請回答剛發生再觀察看看是不是事實對不對好不只如此不只如此事發一個月後家長意外得知校方輔導室借檔繁殖家長不願學校提供協助然後造成孩子在古董諮商支援時錯過黃金治療時間確診創傷壓力症候群這誰要負責這件事情誰要負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
957.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
976.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
然後新北市的加防中心回應是加防中心強調經過資源整合以安排孩子進行諮商輔導孩子要接受諮商輔導還要等到你們大人們去做資源整合之後才有辦法做這些事情一個凱凱案已經造成多大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
977.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
991.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
傷害然後讓整個公部門啊你們要疲於奔命的去做相關的回應跟修正啊對不對現在一下子台北市39位這是直接喔還有間接的喔現在又有新北市還有台中台灣如果是持續這樣的環境你的少子化再怎樣去加碼不要過去的456變成567你就變成789啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1008.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1019.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
小朋友生出來的是出生率的你還是一樣沒辦法往上啦小朋友出生之後他可能在幼兒園就必須要夭折了不可能只有看出生率不看成長率吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1025.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1038.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
所以我請次長好不好我剛剛提到這些問題是不是通通一個月相關單位嘛對不對 你會著急嘛大家如何來做因應的作為嘛然後實際上掌握的人數你們主動來跟我們報告嘛可以嗎 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1041.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1048.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
謝謝 委員真的非常感謝您的那個基礎我知道你剛才說的不是直接又間接啦那些又潛在 那些相關的輔導措施我們趕快來組成一個專案 還有包括相關的地方政府我們都拿出來 一個月以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1060.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1066.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
因為這個營運很大啦,小孩子雖然沒有穿穿到,小孩子沒有穿穿到,但是他看到他尊重老師,對這個孩子做這個行為,對這個孩子來營運,你看多厲害。所以很恐怖的事情啦,好不好?市長,謝謝趙偉,謝謝。 |