| IVOD_ID |
159690 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159690 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-27T10:31:18+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-27T10:48:28+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:17:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ae27c1b40c0db9008314d583a985e4651e62e9fce1db2a031f25d2de176b75bc6283ac1051a9c2f15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳超明 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:31:18 - 10:48:28 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、農業部部長、內政部首長、財政部首長、行政院主計總處首長就「鄉村發展總體檢討及如何提升城鄉發展韌性之規劃方向」進行報告，並備質詢。【3月26日及27日二天一次會】） |
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主席好首先有請我們農業部副市長我們那個國安會我們彭富職委還有我們內政部國土管理使我們的習副市長好那以上幾位委員長早安早安第一個啦 |
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我向你請教一下,那個副市長,你以前住在哪裡?我台南台南、中華還是哪裡?中華,我住鮮華你住過四合院嗎?有啊,我們都三合院,我不是三合院三合院,好,那個彭副主委是 |
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阿你不讀四合院嗎?我有讀過,因為...還是像現在說的喔,你是建築師,新年快樂快樂...在台東我外公家是三合院阿我們的市副市長,阿你有讀過?我讀了幾年你讀了幾年嗎?幾年...七年啦七年,阿我讀過三合院還是四合院嗎?我為什麼會問這個問題? |
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| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
其實剛剛我們趙薇講的,我非常肯定,而且很認同,跟我今天問的都是一樣。在村落裡面,以前的人都怕分家、丟面子,結果那期待一直傳下來,多行都沒有辦法解決。所以你要把鄉村的一個提升它的韌性,我告訴你,不是只有吹哨子就行, |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
102.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
107.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
不然大家都在空口講白話講一講 講給農民高興 講給誰高興那都不是做事情的方式我對這個問題 我要來彭斯指揮副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
121.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
147.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
你跟我們的鄉村基路你絕對要往區亂徵收依照那個面積要有多大包括公共設施要重新劃定下來沒有那個路消防車都進不去那個騎腳踏車才能進去這都我們面臨的問題衛生的環境非常差我們就是進步的國家我們一點在鄉村也不進步所以我告訴你第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
148.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
171.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
你要擺變這鄉村肌肉 你就要做一個器官蒸熟料跟這裡的人說 土地換土地你才有辦法成功 這第一步一定要有這樣的想法那我今天為什麼這麼講我們國土事務司長你們一定要配合尤其農業部他非常擔心農運團體講話或外農事長不用怕啦 台灣的土地還要很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
176.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
201.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你要真的改造農村好就剛剛我講的第一步包括我們稍微講的基建要成立起來第二步我跟你講你現在看到幾個匯六都以外的那個交流道的地區或是中要聯絡的地區都是在鄉村區裡面你要去改變這個觀念現在這些人沒有錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
205.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
226.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
小地址大電農 那些都是做人看的一些有這樣的情形底下你應該在交流到那個地方要特別劃幾個地區跟鄉村區互相應用你才有辦法提升鄉村的韌性但是你現在看我們高速公路連絡重要的連絡道路都在農村區都不能動 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
227.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
247.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
等一下你要怎麼活啊?因為交通現在變成人生必須的共進你只要交通方便,大家都會延遇回來還有一點,人往高速跑,水往低速流你交通不便,他要去外國參加,還是要回家 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
249.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
266.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
他只有有賺錢的機會只要生活過得好很多人回來鄉村可以把都市的人口拿過來所以就換了一個大的錯誤都市計畫內的農業道路六都的農業都市計畫農業區都可以改為建築 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
267.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
286.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
鑑定商業用地溫泉跟土地要怎麼維修等一下等一下說講人口不夠哪裡不夠你沒有製造好的環境所以要過來這個要大膽嘗試要大刀剋武我不曉得聽了這幾句話你們鄉村長大你們的感受如何跟我講一下這樣我說的你聽得到嗎有清楚嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
294.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
319.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我沒有選擇,你也跟我說一下,大家不跟我說話,我沒有辦法判斷你這樣有選擇的時候,我都沒有在館裡去做這個沒有,我告訴你,當時你要協調,很多都是在農業部擋掉啦我按外公社委,我們十幾年的民意代表,這個問題常常存在彭副主委、胡處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
321.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
342.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
還有我們的副市長真的要去溝通協調不認輸幾十名沒有一次成功的以前還有農村再生還有地方創生但是這些都是電話死你真的改造農村你一定要想好策略農村改造就像都市的都更一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
343.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
371.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
你可以各種狀況去設定如何跟生態配合這樣我們討論想不出來 做得出來我覺得彭副主委這個責任很重大我想你以建築師出身為什麼請你來當副主委這跟地方暢生 農村再生最重要土地的管理是在我們內政部國土管理室這邊所以三個要密切的配合才能把這個達成有沒有信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
372.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
394.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我是很有信心啦我是很有信心,但是...大家一起密切配合,然後...真的要這樣,不然你不可以固定,綁手綁腳不敢大刀剋斧,你農村再...農村提升什麼改造農村都不好真的要用新的思維去做啊在這,國土計畫吧,再給我一下澳門農業縣85% |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
400.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
418.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
四山坡頂 阿堤丘返坡 我在這裡 我要特別跟農業部講你們那時候有一個 那個叫農水的什麼?蓋農社的那個 蓋農社 蓋農社 農村局農田水 水保署啦不是不是 農水署不是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
418.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
420.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
蓋農社的鄉鎮啦 那不是你們在說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
431.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
455.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
農事的興建是我們去補啦,去補沒有啦,那是我們農業部裡面去補那是我們補喔,那是資源永續利用,那是我們發明啦不是資源永續利用,我現在在總科我看一看苗栗縣85%的三坡林,我們一塊地三千坪挖你們台北市的一公尺,十坪挖不去你說有比例嗎?這有公平嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
459.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
466.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我覺得六都的市長也沒有什麼好他靠土地變更來賺錢的他一變更的話幾十億 幾十億的收入 那多好我們的鄉村其實叫做廢六 六都叫鄉村區 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
474.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
492.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我常常在想苗栗縣的地方環境比較特殊,它是低區環坡,我一直在講。您好,我來做。成為一個低區環坡示範區,你看到美國高級社區的話,都是在低區環坡裡面這樣做出來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
494.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
510.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你看鄉長澤就是在這樣地區環波做出來現在在山頂沒水、沒工人、沒人去做事一片荒蕪在那一邊你給人家報仇說怕農運團體抗爭沒水夠人家、沒米人家我們糧食生產過剩現在赤貢山頂沒人要去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
518.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
546.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以我在苗栗縣一直要推遲一個地區環保但是我發現本市長這裏有一條農舍用地應既行配置以農地之地界線及臨界道路那是北京的農舍改善你山坡地怎麼可以這樣規範再來要兼備叫人改善但特殊地形者中央並沒有定義什麼叫做特殊地形者 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
547.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
568.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你來新的本領要帶動啦人把人已經地球環保做到很好地了外國都用地球環保是補貼捏你居然限制我們農民使用現在沒人敢,你越搞越晚還有農民耕種,還要種什麼食材要種,那都好笑,我要剪得漂亮高單價的東西不可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
571.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
586.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那當然可以啊可以啊 你們都整天在嘻嘻 只叫我們講漢字只叫我們不是啦市長我不是跟你計較啦 我已經摸了很多了嘛我一直在強調這一點 你們給我定義清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
588.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
613.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們地方來頂頂自治法規我一家五十個一百個我有地方去開路水保都做得好你現在不用怕大家煩惱水保的問題自己的房子自己蓋水保它比誰還更重視你們都沒有煩惱一下排水系統都給你做得很好啊你為什麼這樣懷疑百姓感覺你們政府在搞限制啊你不要怕農營團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
615.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
626.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
現在農民整個財產都沒有你限制到多少錢我是很良心真心的講我現在農業部這一條我還未再圖出來你那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
630.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
659.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
農村農舍的興建尤其我們地區環坡我帶你去看真的很漂亮尤其苗栗特殊台北下來40分鐘就到苗栗30分鐘到每個地方去這個是最好失散人口的地區像我天天搭高鐵上來又回去很近你老爸用這個觀念你用全國統一的一個思想每一個地方的地理環境不一樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
661.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
669.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
董事長三坡地的這些我真的領工農村改造這個都要改變公民路來都沒錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
671.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
690.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
的確應該要因地制宜啦因為委員這苗栗比較多是散春嘛所以那個村落的狀態跟南部比如說那個昭偉這邊他們嘉義這邊就比較集村所以跟昭偉講給我多講一點他那邊也有那個地球環坡的山坡的地方你那邊是甚麼來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
695.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
722.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你還憑什麼跟我闖瘓我現在說三句那邊但是這個我一定要改進我希望農業部要支持也希望國土署你們要喊我到岸就靠近路邊就要計算方針你整天都在想什麼我跟你講這個改造成功你要種什麼食材水果大家種的一定會變成農工隊出來把你地方弄得很漂亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
723.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
735.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你們如果要跟我說要叫你們做,你們怕農運團裡面嗎?那些都沒有種田的人在講話,哪比在組織種田的?你們這個政府真的要改進,你剛才這個看法怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
739.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
751.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
現在國土計畫法是各縣市政府按照地方的發展需求每五年可以同盤檢討那如果認為有必要的話可以去做相關的規劃因為我們地球環保障85%你來看就很漂亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
755.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
782.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
真的很漂亮你去的話 你想說在苗栗圍長好 到台北 到台中都會很近台灣就在掃紙化 去一個飯櫥 要賣什麼啊還是要做白粽子那個退休的地方 人家有錢人家要賣什麼 要賣什麼人在那邊端著豆豉的 讓給年輕人我們老老在這邊 要看身子坐著高鐵上去所以這就跟觀念大家不一樣要賣什麼人我們要想的我們要站在 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
784.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
796.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
國土長治久安的立場你國土長治久安你把山坡定給都市人禮拜一到禮拜五登峰久定他們在賺錢他們在台北 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
799.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
827.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
你把我鄉下禮拜六禮拜天給他們去散步看青山綠水啊我們得到什麼有啦 休閒農業你休閒農業 唉唷你輸不出錢啦這也是一種風險我們做散步地不可以搞得這樣適度的開花這涉及到國土保安啦這國家的國土保安的話不差這一塊啦我講真的啦環境會比原來保持得更好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
828.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
841.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
你怎麼常常在國土保安我們要站在公平正義啦我這就叫做公平正義嘛我告訴你都市 都市內的農業區一直在改變 變更為自在區 商業區他們在賺錢 其他人要做農奴 去整理 整齊 再讓人家吃飯你為什麼不用這樣反悔 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
854.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
875.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
一個市委去判斷你都在顧主席人欸不然你整個越來越丟臉 越丟臉我主席管不了啦 抱歉你主席管不了 我跟你說怎麼整個衝就好了啦不然你這個保證叫我來做啦我真的講 觀念的市委要改變嘛我現在跟你說我們已經受到不公平的待遇了 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
883.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
910.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
啊你怎麼說這樣社會要公平啊就是不叫他農地都不要跟我辯農興都還好嗎那以前農地他現在怎麼可以變為自宅區、商業區去獨立、去暴力為什麼環境會差得那麼多為什麼會少數化所以我今天講你這個觀念沒辯鎂大家平等普通我只在問一句話你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
913.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
926.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
六都裡面的都市計畫類的農業區為什麼每一個人都在變不是天之教主啊我們都不是六都要人不是都市的農業區都要變 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
928.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
956.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
沒有,都市計畫地區如果是農業區要變,也有相關的規範我展要有相關的規範,你跟我講都在變我現在跟你講公平勝利嘛一樣的你幫我留下來重點,什麼都不能變大家公平你如果讓我這樣思維在講話我意思很不滿這一點所謂的鄉村區我現在跟你證明就是揮六度叫做鄉村區 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
958.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
980.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
你們都偏向有選票六都越多的地方你們越重視你們哪裡在關心鄉村區關心灰六都的我這個一定堅持這個是叫做不公平聲音國土保安大家都會去做一樣的國土保安六都跟灰六都的都要一樣你們只顧他們賺錢你為什麼要整個人都不顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
987.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1001.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
怎么他们可以变我们都不能变连速度的利用都不可以还有一个是现在都市的环境会高把这一个开放出来自然的环境就降低了 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1003.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1030.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
臺灣不要那麼多米以前你糧食生產過剩了天天再講糧食安全以前的觀念帶來現在現在的糧食你們藝人成名多少你們外銷虧損多少你拿去你去做那個照明做了多少這個觀念要改啊不可以這樣稀稀地啊好不好 謝謝好我給你兩杯 |