| IVOD_ID |
15967 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15967 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-30T08:31:32+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-30T12:09:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:37:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a6851dc129ce818bd32883679203eefbeec03be8d109af184be4d992f9d6f5cfe58f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：審查
一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具「老人福利法增訂第二十二條之一條文草案」案。
二、委員馬文君等16人擬具「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。
三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
四、國民黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
五、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
七、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。
【第七案，如經復議，則不予審查】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:32 - 12:09:00 |
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好,初席委員已足法定人數,我們現在開會。請議事員宣讀上次會議議事錄。立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年5月27日星期一9時1分至12時54分5月29日星期三9時31分至12時9分地點群憲樓801會議室初席委員陳昭芝等13人列席委員鄭天才等26人 |
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請假委員王振旭、陳金輝均參加第77屆世界衛生大會立法院事導團。列席官員勞動部部長何佩珊等相關人員主席王兆吉委員喻敏5月27日報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定、確定、討論事項一 |
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1784.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
檢察委員林德福等19人擬具楊瓊英等16人擬具馬文君等25人擬具屠村基等17人擬具黃建斌等20人擬具呂玉林等16人擬具盧憲一等17人擬具鄭振前等17人擬具分別擬具就業服務法部分條文修正草案等8案。擬具討論事項二 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1786.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1813.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
審查委員萬美玲等36人、徐宇甄等18人、馬文君等20人、邱若驊等16人分別擬具:「勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案。」等四案。本次會議採綜合詢答。經委員林德福等20人提出質詢。均經勞動部部長、衛生福利部長期照顧司司長祝建方及援助民族委員會社會福利處副處長董敬芬及各相關主管等及其答覆。委員陳金輝、蘇清泉及 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1815.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1838.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
及秋洛華所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報。決議一、說明及詢答完畢。二、委員質詢為其答覆或請補充資料者,請於二周內書面答覆。委員令要求期限者從其所定。五月二十九日討論事項一、審查《就業服務法部分條文修正草案》等八案,及併案審查委員王育敏等17人擬具《就業服務法第46條條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1841.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1848.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
由委員盧憲一、蘇清泉、廖偉翔、鄭天才等4人、委員林月琴、楊耀、黃修邦等3人、委員黃修邦、劉建國等4人分別提出就業服務法第46條條文修正動議、委員林月琴等4人提出就業服務法第55條條文修正動議共4案。決議本案令則其繼續審查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1864.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1892.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
﹝討論事項二﹞審查厲動基準法第五十條條文修正草案等四案。決議本案令則期繼續審查。宣讀完畢。請問委員會上市議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處?沒有。議事錄確定。本日議程為審查一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具《老人福利法增訂第二十二條之一條文草案》案。二、委員馬文君等16人擬具《老人福利法 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1892.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1901.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
第三、委員王建豪等17人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案。」案。三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條及第二十五條條文修正草案。」以上共計7案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1920.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1948.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
現在介紹在場委員及列席官員陳昭之委員許宇甄委員林月琴委員介紹今天出席的官員衛生福利部呂建德政務司長社會及家庭署簡惠娟署長社會保險司陳真惠副司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1951.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1980.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
中央健康保險署李承華副署長法規會陳信成參事食品藥物管理署池蘭惠組長內政部國家公園署油氣管理組張順發組長農業部林業及自然保育署莊哲偉科長生物多樣性研究所楊耀龍助理研究員 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1982.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2008.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
交通部公共運輸及監理司王濟洲檢任記證杭政司楊博文檢任記證觀光署黃怡平組長經濟部國營事業管理司黃旭輝專門委員水利署李雅如科長國軍退出役官兵輔導委員會事業管理處楊文慧檢任記證 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2012.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2040.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
文化部綜合規劃司嚴榮鑫副司長行政院主計總處公務預算處廖玉琳專門委員教育部終身教育司紀賢陽專門委員好那我們現在請提案委員提案委員說明提案要職每位委員兩分鐘首先我們請徐宇甄委員說明並代表國民黨黨團一併說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2050.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2071.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
主席還有在場的各位同仁還有各位官員大家早目前中央政府僅對70歲以上的老人的這個中低戶中低收入戶提供健保的補助然而在台灣各縣市的老人健保費的補助制度卻不一致目前僅有六都跟基隆市有不同程度的一個健保費的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2072.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2083.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2097.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2126.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
而台北桃園景補助所得稅率未達百分之二十的老人而台中市跟台南高雄則補助所得稅率在5%以下的老人這樣不一致的標準使得老人們在不同的城市間享受到了不同的福利而這樣的差別待遇也嚴重了違背了憲法所保障的平等的原則那憲法也明文規定所有中華民國人民在法律上一律平等不應該是因為居住地的不同而有著不公平的待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2127.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2142.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
而基於這樣的原則本席提出了增訂老人福利法第二十二條之一的提案並希望能夠通過這樣子的一個中央政府的統一補助我們的針對近一年申報的綜合所得稅未達百分之二十歲以上的這個65歲以上的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2145.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2174.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
老者應繳納的健保費全額補助,這樣的政策也可以深圳的實現老人健保補助的公平,避免因為財政狀況不同而帶來不公平的一個待遇。國民黨團也提案修正了老人福利法第二十二條是比照臺北市跟桃園市的一個施政經驗,在所得稅率在百分之二十以下的老人65歲以上的老人由中央提供健保的全額補助。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2175.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2177.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
以上是本期提案說明。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2195.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2219.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
謝謝主席老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案提案說明台灣在2018年就進入高齡社會老年人口迅速增長明年我們就會步入超高齡社會但我們針對長者的健保補助費用卻存在著明顯窮縣市與富縣市之間的不平等的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2220.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2224.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案。厲如台北市、新北市、桃園市、台中市 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2237.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2252.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
檯南市、高雄市及基隆市對65歲長者提供的健保補助但其他的縣市地區就無法享受同樣的待遇這樣的差異導致了老年人福利保障的不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2254.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2280.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
也違憲法第七條所揭示的國民平等原則老年人作為我們社會中的重要群體應該享有同等的福利與權利無論他們居住在哪一個地區然而財政問題永遠是窮縣市的痛但這個痛不能讓長者因此擁有不公平的待遇為了解決這一個問題本席提案由中央政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2281.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2283.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2304.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2326.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
則同意補助能夠有效減輕地方政府的財政壓力本案的通過也將助於建立一個更加平等合理可持續的老人福利制度促進我們的社會穩定與和諧所以懇請各位委員審議並支持本提案以保障所有長者的基本權利實現我們對社會公平正義的承諾謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2329.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2334.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好,謝謝張嘉郡委員的說明。接下來我們請陳昭之委員代表台灣民眾黨黨團說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2342.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2365.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
謝謝主席。大家早。台灣民眾黨黨團對於2025年要邁入超高齡這個社會的議題十分的關注。因為隨著老人年口的增加還有平均移民的提高,老年人的這個醫療的這個負擔跟經濟的負擔是會越來越沉重。但是目前我們國家對老年人的健保補助的部分,因為各 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2366.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2395.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
各都或各縣市的財政狀態不一所以目前六個直轄市及部分縣市有不同的條件補助沒有一致性的政策措施那導致多數縣市無法提供相關的補助這在憲法上是一個違反憲法的平等原則因此臺灣民眾黨提案認為應該明定65歲以上近一年綜合所得稅未達申報標準或是未達20%以上者其健保費由中央主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2395.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2396.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2411.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2425.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委員會第19次全體委 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2434.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2453.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
設施抗日場所時也可以享有相關的優待。敬請各位委員同仁能夠支持這樣的修法提案。謝謝。好,謝謝陳昭志委員的說明。剛剛有地震,大家小心。現在還在搖嗎?是喔?好。好,手機沒有響應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2463.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2468.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2483.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2499.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
主席、各位委員、女士、先生大家好今天大院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會召開第19次的全體委員會議審查老人福利法條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2500.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2514.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
本部呃呈邀列席報告。敬請各位委員不吝指教。那麼有關委員啊及黨團建議修正老人福利法第二十二條增訂第二十二條之一本部意見如下第一為協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2516.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2537.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
經濟困難及減輕老人繳納保險費之負擔以老人參加全民健康保險無力負擔費用補助辦法第五條規定已經以排付優先照顧弱勢為原則由本部全額補助中低收入70歲以上老人之保險費所以這一點我們事實上在全國已經是一致平等的這一個補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2538.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2555.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
第二有關委員及黨團建議中央主管機關針對最近一年綜合所得稅綜合所得總額合計未達申報標準或綜合所得稅稅率未達百分之二十至老人全額補助參加全民健康保險制保險費 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2556.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2575.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
獲分負擔費用或保險給付為涵蓋之醫療費用,橫著我國全民健康保險是透過全民納保以發揮自助互助、風險分擔以及基本保障之功能,簡單來說就是各取所需,但是也要各盡所能。 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2577.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2592.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
而且我國已進入高齡社會推估115年將邁入超高齡社會青壯年人口負擔已日益加重保費制度除基於量能負擔的精神之外事實上我們也應該要來考量世代公平的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2593.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2622.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第三現行老人如有部分負擔費用或保險給付為涵蓋之醫療費用無力負擔情形各縣市政府已經頁抑現行規定予以補助而且提供老人的適切服務原本案建議維持原條文至於有關於委員及黨團建議修正老人福利法第二十五條本部意見如下有關條文修正訂訂老人應需人陪伴者其必要陪伴者一人 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2623.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2639.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
與達成國內大眾運輸工具及進行康樂場所、文教設施得享有與老人同等之優待一節,考量大眾運輸風景區。康樂場所之精靈是以自給自足為原則,並朝永續創造財政收益為目標。 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2642.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2657.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
而鑒於老人人口快速增加,倘立法再擴大優惠範圍或票價調整,涉及跨部會、各地方政府財政支出、補貼機制與民間業者營運事宜,考量世代正義原則,尚需通盤審慎研議,本案建議維持現行條文。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2661.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2680.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
各位委員、各位同仁我國將於一一五年邁入超高齡社會而行政院也將於一一零年九月二十七日修正合訂高齡社會白皮書另於一一一年十一月十日合訂因應超高齡社會對策方案一一二至一一五年 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2680.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2702.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
而一、三年度我們預計將投入250億元推動345項重要工作透過公司協力跨域合作來積極回應高齡者社會的高齡者的多元需求換句話說我們強調錢還是必須要花在刀口上面我們這邊也會全力來推動以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2704.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2731.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好謝謝呂次長的說明有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報現在開始詢答做以下選告一、本會委員詢答時間6加2分鐘列席委員4分鐘10點30分截止發言登記委員如有書面質詢請於散會前提出預期不受理暫定10點30分休息5分鐘依往例審查法案不處理臨時提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2732.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2734.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
現在請登記第一位陳昭芝委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2752.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2767.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
次長早。這是我們第一次的詢答。前次在研討會有交換過名片。恭喜次長。辛苦你。我想請教次長,您知道6月15號是什麼日子嗎?6月15號是什麼日子嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2775.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2797.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
委員馬文君等16人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案。׳ 聯合國從2011年開始,就訂定每年的6月15號是世界老人虐待的警醒日。我們非常感謝社團法人臺灣防暴聯盟響應這個活動,一直在進行相關的倡議。每個家庭每個 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2799.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2816.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
五、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利法增訂第二十五條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利法第二十五條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利法增訂第二十五條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利法增訂第二十五條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利法增訂第二十五條條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利法增訂第二十 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2824.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2851.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
是是,謝謝次長。對,疏忽照顧身體照顧那經濟虐待那精神虐待這個部分確實是最容易被忽視的可能是精神虐待因為照顧者可能是因為長期照顧之後的身心懼乏、懼疲那入帽跟吼叫就是最常發生在長輩身上的一種精神虐待那所謂的疏忽型的照顧其實蠻多元的蠻多元的包括沒有提供這個適當的飲食衣物還有沒有去幫助維持 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2857.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2877.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
議員請看這個圖我們可以看到65歲以上老人受到家庭暴力的這個通報案件近年來其實一直是持續上升老人受虐的問題加劇那其中下面是以女性受暴比例較高想問市長根據您的經驗發生在老人虐待的原因主要是什麼呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2878.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2899.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
報告委員,其實過去我也在臺中擔任過社會局長,那其實就是主要加防中心的業務。我的瞭解主要大概就是親屬間的相處,就是剛剛委員說像有關照顧上的問題,還有一些財務問題,照顧的議題,有時候也會合併有一些這一個精神疾病或者藥酒飲的這一個情況。 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2901.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2913.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
謝謝次長應該包括還有家暴死啦缺乏社會的支持社會的支持我想這個部分也很重要那再請問次長您覺得施暴者以哪一個群體占比最高 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2914.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2937.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
一般來說大概還是這一個家庭成員是家庭成員齁其中大概我們直系血親還有悲親屬齁是確實就是屬於家庭內的我們知道的資料也是如此齁這個部分還是直系這個悲親屬這個戰略是最高的去年接獲老人這個保護案件大概有兩萬多件那其中有一半是直系悲親屬施虐者 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2937.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2962.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
大概佔了55%另外其次再來就是親密關係的對象跟伴侶施暴大概是26百分比那其他家庭成員是14那非家庭成員大概是佔5%所以這個一跟我們大眾的想像有時候像造福員、外籍刊物比較容易施暴的情況是有很大的差異那請問市長您知道受虐有哪些通報的管道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2963.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2978.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
包括委員我們一般通常都可以有兩個方式啦就是電話的話就113的通報專線那或者呢網路人員的話我們可以透過我們本部關懷一起來的網路通報平台來進行這個通報就是兩個這個管道好是好好謝謝次長那 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2979.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2999.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
除了11310可以通報我們現在是剛剛次長也提到有關懷這個一起來在網站可以做線上的通報不過就算有這些通報的管道我想有幾個原因可以討論第一個長者可能不見得有能力去使用這個線上通報第二個就是常受到傳統的觀念所影響他認為這是家醜不可外揚 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3004.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3008.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案。一、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案。二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3031.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3045.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
所以也造成許多老人虐待案件沒有被通報成為社福機關沒有辦法去介入進行協助的一個黑數這個是存在那請問次長任務會不會做如何的改善呢在這些狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3046.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3066.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
是,報告委員,我們一般我們大概就是會有會根據個案的需求跟風險來提供或連結一些像庇護安置,或者緊急就醫、長照服務、經濟輔助、法律輔助、就業服務,還有其實最重要事實上是有一個所謂加害者處遇計畫,這事實上是一個多元的一個服務方案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3067.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3094.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
市長認為這個是有效益的嗎?因為剛剛我們看到他整個的通報案數是當然很多是可能沒有通報但是我們想通報案數再增加的話未通報的其實相對也是高的所以這些所以我們其實我們也在這個保護師其實也會協調各地方政府在有關於這個老人虐待這個部分我們在廣為來進行相關的宣傳來提醒社會各界來注意這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3096.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3114.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
對,既然超高齡社會已經到了嘛,那衍生的經濟問題等等剛剛的問題,所以我想這個部分這個社會這個次長要多辛苦來處理這個部分,但有關我們回到這個相關的辦法,就是我們的老人保護通報及處理辦法規定了醫事人員跟社工 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3115.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3128.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
關工作者發現疑似老人這個虐待案的時候應該要在24小時內通報但是這個辦法並沒有規定直轄市或縣市主管機關接獲通報以後要進行訪視調查的這個期限 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3131.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3149.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那這樣的機制可能讓受命令老人即便通報了可是他沒有得到及時的協助所以想請問次長你覺得這個應該如何來進行改善呢包括委員我們為了要落實這個部分其實我們會來透過剛剛委員剛剛所說的我們會推廣老人忽略 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3150.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3164.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
檢視工具還有服務分流指引來趕快及早發現然後來發現社區當中老人失誤割換那其實這裡面我們也會結合其實長照那邊其實我們照服員等等這些他如果說有發現類似的一個情況的話趕快來進行通報來強調長照跟我們退家 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3168.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3168.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
議員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3186.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3211.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我想市長沒就任前也知道一連串的這個兒女重大育兒事件他其實當中也有發生很多這個相關的機構橫向的聯繫直向聯繫都沒有去做所以後來整個社會安全網就網不住這個這些孩子所以這個當然我們沒有辦法預取老人虐待案是不是可能也是一個類似的狀況那這個部分是要持續的去做改善沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3212.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3240.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
至少近年來社會相關部會就有在推動所謂的在地老化等政策那也成立了很多社區照顧關懷據點本席很肯定這樣的一個做法但是我認為還是有進步的空間啦例如免付費的這個老人諮詢服務專線很長的耶0800228585我覺得利益良善但是大部分國民可能不知道不要說這個宣傳的力道還是可以再大一點而且如果可能改成四個字通報是更好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3241.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3245.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3279.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3282.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
而有請我們的旅次。好請次長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3294.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3310.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
委員長因為我常年都在從事青少年的服務工作那也比較關注於我們年輕人的生活狀況那109年我們台灣的人口已經事實上是呈現負成長的趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3313.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3340.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
老人人口持續在成長大概2050年大概就會達到高峰從這表格裡邊可以去預估到就是我們大概到2028年的一個時間點大概15到64歲的勞動人口會降到67%到時候年輕人大概就會覺得生活非常的壓力非常大因為15到64 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3341.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3356.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12� |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3370.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3371.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3392.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3413.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案»案。netesi, 臺灣的社會福利政策制定的概念看起來好像是只要把老人照顧好那就等於有好的社會福利 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3413.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3434.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
委員馬文君等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案 案件 、老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案 案件 、老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案 案件 、老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案 案件 、老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案 案件 、老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案 案件 、老人福利法第二十五條條條文修正草案案 案件 、老人福利法第二十五條條條文修正草案案 案件 、老人福利法第二十五條條條文修正草案案 案件 、老 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3440.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3452.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案 案 、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案 案 、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案 案 、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案 案 、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條條文修正草案案 案 、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條條文修正草案案 案 、委員張嘉郡等20人 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3468.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3472.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案 案 》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3493.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3517.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
現在就是說整個優先順序上來說陳副委員剛剛所秀的我們現在目前似乎就是這個部分我想可能在比例上我想可以來做一些考量對因為我長期在服務青少年的時候他們覺得整個社會到底對他們能不能很公平的去看待因為在有限的資源分配上大家比較想到的是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3517.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3518.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3537.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3556.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3563.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3589.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
是否正義的問題?是,非常感謝委員。其實我們現在目前如果說國家我們用國家經濟我想我相信一定會越來越好但是現在就是說在這一個這個餅就這麼大嘛那我想就是說確實在整個優先順序上來說本部的一個基本的一個理念其實基本上還是我們根據賴清德總統他所提出的社會投資所以我們現在目前就是說我們是期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3590.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3592.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案案 》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3615.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3633.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
來這一個因為你服務的話其實也創造更多的就業機會出來我跟委員報告長照2.0以長照2.0為例我們從一開始1.0的時候照顧服務員只有兩萬到目前為止已經成長到將近快九萬兩千那麼原先的薪資從原先只是兩萬九目前已經提高到三萬八 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3634.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3634.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
二、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3654.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3667.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案»案。adequate to the national security and social security of the country, and the national security and social security of the country. |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3683.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3708.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
已經高過於我們的社會救助跟社會福利項目的24人這就是我們為什麼會擔憂的所以請問一下從民國84年政府就針對70歲以上的中低收入老人提供健保的保費全額補助針對65歲到69歲由地方的開辦的福利政策來支應現今中央的政策跟多數的地方政府大家都有一些排富設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3710.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3710.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
二、委員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3731.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3758.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
是,報告委員,其實陳副委員剛剛所說的,我們現在其實我們在這個中央的部分,針對70歲以上低收以及中低收,我們都已經有補助,那這個部分的話,我們大概是10億。那麼65到69歲的話,這是根據各地方政府,他們現在,他們目前的財力,他們個別都有一些相關的措施,但是我還是必須要強調就是說,我們錢真的還是要用在刀口上,那這一個部分真的有限的資源,我們是不是能夠有一些最好的運用。 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3758.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3782.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
如果不排付的話,中央加地方一年要支出多少錢?如果不排付的話,我們現在目前的估算,現在目前是354億。那預估到這個2049,這個部分的數字可能會提高到691億。隨著人口老化的程度,那逐年又要增加多少費用的比例? |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3783.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3810.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
包括我因為每一年我們的這一個長輩每年是以這個20萬的速度在成長所以這個確實整個這一個財政上來說真的是會必須要省省來應該考慮所以這邊有一個具體建議整個福利支出可能要考慮到世代增益因為大餅就是只有這樣所以支出項目也要避免過度集中還有真的要珍惜資源因為能使用資源是有限的時候可能要考慮排富那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3811.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3811.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
接下來我們請廖偉祥委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3840.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3865.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
謝謝主席那請我們的次長好請次長次長你好喔次長想要請問喔再生醫療法即將在院會三讀通過次長你知道嗎知道你知道喔那在這個禮拜二院會的時候院會也發生一個突發事件喔就是這個邱義營委員打了羅志強委員一巴掌喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3865.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3878.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那這個部分呢其實就跟這個再生醫療通過有關係了因為他們在可能在吵的就是這件事那我也想要問一下次長請問你對於這樣的救命法案被通過你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3880.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3904.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
非常感謝委員對於本案的一個關心我想再生醫療法要維護確實很多很多患者的這個權利那麼過去在過去這段時間的很多委員其實也包括邱益英委員等等許多委員都努力的來推動那事實上站在本部立場站在國際民生的立場我們也希望能夠來加速來推動是很好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3905.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3931.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那我相信所有的人都樂見再生醫療法被通過我想這個應該次長您也同意吧那這也是為什麼週二院會表決的時候是否延長會議的時候以101票的高票通過那出現這次很多難得的朝野攻勢喔可是現在可以看到新聞和社群卻不斷造謠說在野黨為了通過國會改革法案要擋下再生醫療法的三讀程序次長你認為有這回事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3933.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3956.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
包括委員我們相信其實委員們應該都是在全力來支持那其實確實就像我剛剛說就是也包括邱委員在內我想我們都來一起來努力來推動所以換言之就是藍綠白的委員的同意研會也就是希望能夠在10縣內競速通過那也兼顧這個國會改革法案跟這個再生醫療法的三讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3958.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3980.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
所以下午三點的時候反而是就已經有提出了這個散會動議那如果散會動議通過的話是不是才會讓這個醫療法的三讀通過的法案被延後呢你認為是不是因為當天下午三點的時候有提散會動議如果真的散會動議成功的話那是不是會延後到我們再生醫療法的三讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3981.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4008.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我們其實有關議程的部分我們完全都尊重那個大院的這一個程序。好,不過沒關係,事實上其實再生醫療法並不是本屆才納入這個立法審議而是10年前就已經開始被提出來討論而且並且當時其實行政院已經有將版本送到我們立法院來審議那未還委員會也是不斷地排審那送出委員後也經過朝野協商那個黨團協商但最後還是沒有通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4009.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4038.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
次長這一次的會期其實從2月1號開議至今大概是120天那120天裡面也包含所有的假期農曆七天、228啦或是這個復幼節兩天跟每週的六日所以實際上班天數大概是79天那再生雙法在下週三預計要三讀那其實八十幾天完成兩部法律的三讀程序其實應該算是蠻快的立法速度對不對次長是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4039.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4062.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
是,算蠻快的首先真的是辛苦委員這個為了民眾的利益在發聲那我想我們站在本部的立場就是誠如委員剛剛所說的這個已經我們討論10年那這個事實上是對於很多民眾他們也大概都是希望趕快來通過那我們本部的立場我們也期待趕快來新立 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4065.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4091.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
所以我想八十幾天完成這個兩個法案的三讀通過應該不算是拖延啦在這個會期裡面所以再來我剛剛有提到再生醫療法其實看到我們這個powerpoint首次在立法院被討論以來已經超過十年了2019年的時候首度要拼三讀立法甚至那個時候朝野的立委大概藍綠的委員都有共識卻因為時任的立委邱太元 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4092.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4096.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
委員強力的杯葛而未能通過。請問次長知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4098.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4124.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
包括委員我想應該所有的委員大家都覺得這應該是非常重要所以我想我們應該委員們都好那我們來看到這張powerpoint2020年換到這個第10屆納入優先法案那也打算盡快通過沒想到當時的邱太元委員時任執政黨的立委居然提出一個自己的版本跟這個院版來互槓最後又導致法案無疾而終 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4125.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4150.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
最有趣的是當時的這個邱委員也是現在的邱部長堅持這個再生醫療製劑應該要改為製品以至於當時通常被尋的這些食藥署當時的食藥署署長吳秀美直接說這會導致再生醫療製品的主管機關變成了經濟部也就是非藥品而是商品層次所以才會變成改由經濟部主管請問次長認為這樣合理嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4152.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4170.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
八、委員我相信所有的委員一定都是希望就是說這個法案是好我知道你剛剛說過很多次了好沒關係確實是這樣我想好我懂我懂好那我直接再繼續講2023年的第10屆看到我們這個跑跑朋友2023年的第10屆的時候那個會期看起來是最有機會拼這個三獨的末班車 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4173.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4188.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
當時發生了什麼事?發生了包含邱部長跟現任邱部長也是當時的邱委員跟林靜怡委員也是現在的次長在內的執政黨立委聯手炮轟行政機關的奇觀最終法案依然未能通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4189.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4202.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
所以從上述來看你認為過去十年當時的邱立委、林委員就是現在的邱部長跟林次長的立場是不是都站在反對再生醫療法通過的那一邊? |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4203.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4227.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
包括委員我覺得我們共同的目標都是一致但是或許方法上面大家有一些不一樣但是我想大家都是為了我們再生醫療還有我們所有病患還有民眾的權利好謝謝次長因為我去爬書一下資料整理一下所以這些過往的事實被本席找到了直接證明這個過往的邱太元立委現在的邱太元部長跟林靜怡委員現在的林靜怡次長的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4228.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4245.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
則是導致過去十年來再生醫療法停滯不前的主因。所以我在這裡也想要跟這個邱毅英委員說其實看到這十年來大家都很辛苦沒有錯尤其是邱委員也很努力喔可是你當天要打的人應該是邱委員邱泰源委員跟林靜穎委員吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4245.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4268.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那老實說這次的次長對自己長官的立場阿和他的過去的言行要教教你評價實在是太苛刻了阿所以為什麼我現在要問這個題目就是要來討論想要來問這個邱部長跟接下來的林次長對於這件事情的態度是什麼那找你回答是為難你但是我還是希望等他們回來的時候我會再對他們提出質詢阿那再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4271.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4291.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這次在立法院附近的陳抗大概分了四場那每天都到12點我想這個民主的集會遊行我們都尊重但這次我想音量真的是太誇張到入夜還在吵讓人根本沒辦法休息即便是一項很有耐心的護理師也不得不在網路上抱怨你可以看到我們的powerpoint |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4291.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4303.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那這個臺大醫院的院長也表示他還表示說期待抗議者可以互相尊重能夠自我控制降低營量不要影響到看診及住院病童的就醫權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4305.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4332.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以我想要請問次長你覺得這次是不是真的有炒到整體病房的安寧跟影響病患的權益?非常感謝委員對本案的關心那這個部分我們當然就是說就是說人民的集會結社還有這一個整個我們病患的這個部長你覺得有沒有影響到他們的權益?那因為這是屬於台北市政府的權責這是屬於台北市政府的權責那我們事實上也積極的協調市府屬於他的權責可是醫院歸你們衛福不管不是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4333.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4356.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
你覺得有沒有吵到這個病患的權益?這個是臺大醫院是教育部那邊那這個病患的權益有沒有給你們管?現在就是說這裡面當然就是說有一些權責分工嘛我想大家我們都希望對於這個民眾就是能夠兼顧這一個這個病患還有這個權益的利益那所以你也希望要兼顧病患的權益嘛對不對?您的態度應該是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4357.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4379.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
結果這個事件經過媒體曝光後上網抱怨的這些護士跟病人反而被出征而且被指責很吵的樂團還說要送病童們免費去看他們的演唱會你可以看到這裡黑色的這一段市長你知道他們演唱會的名稱叫什麼嗎?不知道?好那你看看這個文件喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4380.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4404.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
這個文宣的內容叫做《今夜台北市的邊緣Final墓地將進行一場深入骨髓的末日盛宴。一曲絕望的晚歌,我們將在城市的廢葉上刻上最後的秘密。部長我告訴你這場演唱會的名稱居然叫做死亡通告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4405.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4426.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
他要邀請這些病患和病童去看他們的演唱會,這樣演唱會叫死亡通告。我想問這是什麼黑色幽默?看到這個內容,你覺得病童他們的爸媽跟他的爺爺奶奶是什麼感想?他是在嘲諷這些兒童嗎?次長你能夠接受這樣的內容嗎?你覺得他是道歉還是詛咒?報告委員我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4432.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4458.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
就是我想是有一些宣傳的一些方式那我想這個裡面應該我們都有同理心我們也希望就是誠如剛剛說的我們希望兼顧各方的一個權益很好 謝謝次長所以剛剛講到同理心所以我剛剛有提到衛福部身為醫院的主管機關能不能代表全體的醫療機構尤其是這個脆弱的臺大兒童醫院病童 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4459.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4469.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
未來在立院成抗的時候跟警政署協調,能夠過十點以後控制營量,以照顧病患的身心的健康。可以嗎?你可以答應本席嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4473.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4497.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
其實這個部分其實主要還是因為因為這一個相關的部分還是那個臺北市政府的權責我想基於這個這一個權責分工我想我們這邊也會來跟臺北市政府這邊來來轉請他們來妥善來處理謝謝好好那謝謝本席沒有謝謝廖委員謝謝好謝謝廖偉強委員的資訊接下來我們請黃秀芳委員資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4508.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4516.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
謝謝,我們請呂次長還有教育部,今天教育部,終身教育師專委。好,我們請呂次長跟紀專委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4523.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4528.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
謝謝次長剛剛廖委員講的我們這個再生醫療雙法當然是歷經了這個10年將近10年的這個時間從第9屆、第10屆、第11屆那當然就是在第9屆跟第11屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4540.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4556.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
第十屆這兩屆民進黨即便在這個立法院是過半那因為委員在未完委員會委員或者是其他委員會委員都有不同的意見那即便是民進黨的立委是過半可是我們也沒有強度關山 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4558.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4587.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
則是要聽取各方的意見那將最好的這個方式最好的這個這個條例能夠進到這個委員會大家再充分的討論所以在5月初的本席在當章委的時候我就把它排入我們委員會的這個議程那也充分的討論用了兩天的時間將再生醫療雙法充分的討論之後送出委員會那原本是希望能夠建樹在大會能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4587.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4607.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案 通過,那非常的可惜,就是沒辦法在最短的時間來二三讀。因為我覺得說這個再生醫療雙法可以在委員會充分的討論之後,完全都沒有保留,就是條文都完全沒有保留,也不需要送協商,那全部都送到大會要二三讀。 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4608.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4608.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
二、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4626.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4627.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
二、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4644.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4666.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
因為這個老人福利法的部分其實牽涉的蠻多的不論是主管、業管的這個衛福部那教育部甚至我看到交通部那還有內政部都會受到影響那我想請教就是說教育部在這個今天的這個報告當中第一項有寫到說有助於營造敬老、親老的高齡友善環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4666.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4688.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
adequare他們原本是寫說尊重委員的提案然後那第二個又寫到說其與條文教育部尊重衛生福利部的意見那我想請教就是說到底教育部的這個說法跟主管機關的意見不同那又說自己尊重主管機關的意見那到底教育部到底是什麼意見是不是可以先請教育部說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4689.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4714.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
好,委員好。那委員報告說是因為今天要討論的這個法案條文是包括第二十二條還有第二十五條那本部主要是先針對第二十五條的部分然後我們經過評估是有助於營造敬老的高齡友善環境所以尊重委員提案但是我們後面是表示說至於其他像第二十二條的部分因為比較沒有涉及本部的業務所以我們就尊重衛福部的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4717.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4733.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
一般的民眾,如果說是委員的意見、委員的條文有關於進入康樂場所或參觀文教設施,陪伴者享有跟老人同等的優待 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4735.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4754.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
則,教育部認為有助於青老、近老的友善環境。請問教育部,這樣的措施需要花費多少的公務支出?有的可能是私人的場所,可能是私人的那種藝文場所。你們有去算過業者需要多少的補貼嗎?如果這個法條通過之後。 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4757.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4784.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
向委員報告我們這部分目前的確是沒有辦法在短時間之內去進行一個的估算那因為這個文教設施可能也有涉及到其他部會的設施那只是說我們在政策面上面來看的話因為目前的草案條文是針對說如果老人有需要陪伴者的話才有優惠所以我們是在整個所以你們自己本身也沒有去去估算到底65歲的這個老人 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4786.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4806.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
而他需要的陪伴加65歲的老人然後再加上要陪伴的這樣子如果是同等優惠的話那你們大約要支出多少的這個公務預算或者是私人也許是你們管的藝文場所好這些業者到底要補貼多少你們到底到底有沒有一個概念有沒有一個概算 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4807.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4830.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
跟委員報告,我們目前並沒有做這樣子一個概算,但是我們在這個評估上面來講的話,我們先就我們教育部所主管的國立的社交機構去做評估。好,那你們針對你們國立的這個,你們所俠管的這些國立的這些場所,如果是全面免費的話,到底會支出多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4831.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4860.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
現在委員報告因為國立的那個管所的門票收入其實它是規費的一種所以如果說是免費去提供的話其實是減收那個規費並不是額外的一個支出那當然我們會去評估就是說目前的社交機構目前參觀的民眾概估上面來看的話最主要是那個就是學生、兒童然後以及家長那老年人的部分可能在比例上來講不會佔那麼大的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4860.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4884.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
現在是老人還要加上一個陪伴者嗎?是。對啊。所以這樣子到底是要付多少?你們目前沒有一個概算嗎?對,可能要先去統計就是說以往就是去道館參觀至於老年人的部分是多少人。好,那接下來我是不是可以請內政部?內政部是誰?來,上來一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4891.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4915.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
請問內政部的張順發組長這邊我想主長我想請教就是內政部所管轄的這個國家公園所屬的各國家公園管理這個景點那還有可能就是國家公園所屬的這個國家公園或者是地方的共造產那如果像這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4916.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4934.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
條例通過之後除了65歲以上的老人免費那陪伴者這樣到底是你們本身要支付多少或者是你們有沒有去想到地方的公共造產他們也許會減收或者是需要補貼多少這個你們有去做一個統計嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4936.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4963.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
剛委員報告就是說其實目前華公園只有四個地方是有收費的那主要的公共造產是在墾丁華公園那包含那個俄安比這邊所以依我們目前的這個資料來看的話雖然沒有實際的一個統計數據不過一般來說老人的這個敬老票的部分大概會佔我們三分之一以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4964.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4964.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
三分之一左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4988.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5007.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
要看實際的一個因為每年的那個遊客人數其實不一定是對所以你們也沒有一個大約統計是那是不是說你們可以將你們所有的資料就我今天所問的你們這個資料這個可能在一個禮拜或兩個禮拜內是不是可以提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5008.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5034.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
好,我們回去來統計好,那接下來我想請教呂次我想請教就是說五月份是報稅月我相信很多在座各位大家都有報稅那我們看到這個老人福利法通過之後這個委員的版本就是說這個稅率未達百分之二十的這個老人健保全額補助那我想請教就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5035.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5059.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
而這個目前的這個青壯年每月的月薪平均可能就是差不多四萬五萬的人這個占多數那有可能一個現象就是說收入如果照這樣子這個老人福利法如果照委員的版本就是說百分之二十未達百分之二十可能一個概念就是說他可能月領十萬塊的老人 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5060.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5066.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5088.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5099.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
非常感謝委員的意見確實就是說如果按照現在目前這個版本的話如果稅率20%我跟各位報告因為最近大家都在報稅嘛這個擬具是年所得在121萬到242萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5104.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5120.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
則這一個擬具。那我們平均起來我們取那個平均值的話對不對我們換算起來一個月大概這樣的一個長輩一個月可能他是12萬那我們現在我跟委員報告一下我們現在目前的年輕人的您剛說平均那如果說以中位所得 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5120.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5121.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5139.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5139.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
二、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5163.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5191.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
次長我是不是可以要求就是說其實我們針對65歲以上的低收、中低收或者是需要照顧的這些老人也許他沒有中低收或是沒有低收可是他確實是邊緣戶可能就是他也沒有達到那個標準那我覺得說這些人是更需要政府的幫忙所以我是認為未來針對這部分我覺得你們應該要去好好的去思考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5192.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5193.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
bicylson 沒錯。 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5213.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5239.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
所以我們當然是希望福利越來越好可是我們也希望說年輕人他也能夠不要有那種感覺好像他被剝奪的那種感覺所以我覺得如果今天我們要照顧一個長輩的話我覺得應該如果以他真正需要低收、中低收甚至邊緣戶的這一種我覺得我們把他照顧好這個我覺得是政府理所當然的 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5240.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5260.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那針對這部分我希望說你們可能還要再好好的去思考一下,好不好?我這麼簡單回應一下,就是說剛剛委員剛剛說的部分,我們社會救助法這邊也會來做相應的一個調整。確實這個部分,我們就是說您剛剛說邊緣戶的部分,我們是不是也能夠來把它一一照顧。但是錢真的要花在刀口上,而且要幫助最需要幫助的長輩。謝謝。好,謝謝。我們有請這個王玉明委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5277.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5281.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
好,謝謝主席。我們是不是有請呂次長。呂次長好。呂次長先恭喜你,擔任這個專務次長。那今天討論有關於老人福利法的這個修正。剛剛也聽到你很多的想法跟意見。但是我要先讓次長看一下,就是說現在的健保費, |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5306.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5325.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案。」案。一、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案。」案。一、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案。」案。一、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案。」案。一、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條條文修正草案。」案。一、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5335.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5362.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
則六十五歲以上老人,那你都可以享有健保費的補助。那離島是中央全額補助。基隆市是六十五歲以上通通都可以免繳健保費。那有的縣市是採5%以下。所以你可以看到一個臺灣一國多治,可以看到這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5363.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5385.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
如果我們把它視為是社會福利的一環的話,可以這樣嗎?因為一個老人家他所處的縣市不同,他享有的福利資源待遇不同,這個有符合公平的原則嗎?OK,非常感謝委員對於本案的關心。我想大概三個重點,第一個就是說,全民健保它是屬於社會保險的一種。 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5386.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5413.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
社會保險基本上事實上是這一個量能付費、風險分擔並且各盡所能、各自所需。社長你可以不用再講學理。我就讓你看到現況,現在就是一國多製。請問你要怎麼處理?保安委員我們現在目前,剛剛已經報告了70歲以上第一收、中低收最需要的我們是全部由本部我們每年以10億來幫助。所以這邊事實上我們事實上是全國一致的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5414.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5443.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我跟你說65歲啊65歲到69歲就不一致啊這個攤開事實就是這麼明顯嘛那你作為中央主管機關你怎麼來處理這一塊呢那報告委員現在有關這部分有關65到69的部分呢其實事實上就是說我們就是就是看各地方政府他們以目前的這一個財力他們自己來那現在最重要就是說是必要性的問題這個就是現在不公平嘛我們看到很明顯的不同的縣市的差異另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5444.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5463.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
在大選之前總統候選人侯友宜跟柯文哲他們都拋出來是65歲以上免繳健保費那當時這個衛福部部長薛瑞元他因為看到其他兩黨的總統候選人有提出來所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5464.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5489.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
他也跟鄭文燦副院長開了一個會考慮要針對第6類109萬人來研議補助方式請問你們的政策有延續嗎你有被交辦這個政策要繼續辦下去嗎報告委員第6類是屬於地區那當時我的瞭解薛部長跟鄭副院長他們所說是第6類裡面的低收中低收的部分有109萬人有嗎沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5493.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5518.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
對啊這個是媒體報導的喔市長好像你接受到了訊息你怎麼落差這麼大呢他說他要針對109萬人每月全額補助健保費826元出工要編100億的公務預算支應而且詳細的方案去年講補助方案會出爐明年正式上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5520.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5545.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
這是新聞媒體報導的。那你作為政務次長,你完全沒有接收到任何訊息,在交接的時候沒有交接到這項政策。包委,我收到的是就是剛剛說的,就是第六類裡面的低收中低收的部分。低收中低收,你們不是老早就有在補助了嗎?我們是針對弱勢的部分。那這一則新聞是怎麼回事? |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5546.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5552.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
不認帳了。就是反正薛部長也走了。所以這項方案那我就問你,這項方案還在不在要多編100億的公務預算來補助109萬65歲以上的長者,這一個政策還在不在? |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5565.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5586.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
包括委員除了瞭解那個薛副部長當時交接我們當時還只是就是說我們會來研議喔我們是研議這一個是誰要研議你要研議對我們這邊當然會來研議阿但現在就是說我還是必須要澄清這個是對媒體公開講的是針對地區地區裡面的這一個低收跟中低收的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5586.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5603.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那你們預估你們新政府上來之後否定了前朝,那你們預計要新增加多少人?他們之前承諾大家是有一百萬人喔,一百億的公務預算。那請問新的賴政府是要補助多少人?擴大補助多少人?多少預算? |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5604.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5631.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
二、委員我們當時我們只是說就是說會來加強對於就是說不管怎麼樣我們一定是對於弱勢的照顧你看你們現在又全盤否定了嘛這個是媒體大家回去查2023年9月6號各大媒體都有每一個媒體都有而且是薛部長跟鄭文燦副院長很緊急的開完會之後對外拍板說的非常的清楚就是100億的規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5632.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5651.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
八、委員因為齁我必須要澄清齁所以那次市長你也可以講說你們全盤否定了就是反正蔡政府已經結束了賴政府就是沒有要認這項政策就對了對不對八、委員我們的這個政策一定是延續的但是我現在必須要澄清就是那你的規文告訴本席啊是多少人多少預算嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5652.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5653.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
委員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5674.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5675.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5695.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5705.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
二、委員馬文君等16人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5719.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5723.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5748.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5751.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
二、委員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5782.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5798.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
報告委員,食藥署藥品組這邊報告。那有關於永豐在停工之前呢,他有供應臨床的藥品一共有20項。那我們食藥署呢,其實在事件的第一時間,就針對這些藥品去尋找國內有許可證、廠商合格的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5799.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5825.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
來取代這些臨床上面的缺口有14項的藥品呢國內的廠商都可以接的上來那其中有4項的藥品的部分呢永豐公司這邊至少有兩個月以上的庫存我們有徵求這個專案進口以及專案製造的部分那最近大家比較關切的是生理食鹽水沖洗用以及注射用的部分我們除了請國內的廠商來增加產能之外呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5825.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5845.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
議員馬文君等16人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案：立法院第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11會期社會福利及 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5847.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5875.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那其實加上永豐的原本的一些庫存還有我們專案數量的話六、七月的話是不會有問題的數量是足夠的那七月以後呢七月以後呢目前廠商所提報上來的數字到十月之前呢專案輸入的廠商跟國內的產能的話加起來的數字是可以符合臨床上面的一個需求所以你們保證不會缺貨不會有醫院有短缺的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5876.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5876.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
委員馬文君等16人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5890.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5890.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5909.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5933.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
而造成這樣的一個短缺的情況,然後還要這個相關的廠商,要這些勞工就是沒有獲得保障,把他的加班的時數上限給取消掉。這個是犧牲勞工的時間來彌補你們的過失,這個是非常離譜的。另外一個,你們現在的專案是不是三倍的價格? |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5935.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5958.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
欸,專案輸入的價格的部分是昨天健保署有依照程序召開共理會,然後跟廠商討論溢價之後的一個結果。那詳細的藥品價格的數字的話,健保署這邊比較清楚。你們不清楚,今天要來開會本期已經有提醒。你們還不清楚。媒體不是說是多了高達三倍的價格嗎?你們不清楚媒體都清楚。 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5964.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5978.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
目前專案進口因為要讓他快速所以我們大概用到兩到三倍的價格是啊所以你看這一次整個的衛福部的疏失我們又要更多的公帑剛剛次長還說這個大家的這個財政永續啊人民的稅收啊要用在這個刀口上啊請問這是刀口上嗎這是因為疏失你要用三倍的價格然後讓廠商來買 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5989.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6014.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
另外還要勞工就是讓他們去加更多班還要取消現在我們勞基法對他的保障我覺得這一個專案之後一定要要求衛福部徹徹底底的檢討而且也不允許未來還發生這樣的事情是浪費國家公帑還要犧牲勞工的這一個工時然後來彌補這一個過失這個是未來不可以再發生的事情喔好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6028.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6041.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
接下來我們請黃建豪委員質詢。好,謝謝主席。那我們先請這個衛福部次長,呂次長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6058.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6082.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
好,市長。這個先恭喜喔,擔任這個衛部的政務次長。那我想今天本席要討論的是這個老人福利法22條的部分啊。那其實如果如同剛剛這麼多人的討論,如果單純要來談所謂青壯世代跟老年人的這個負擔的問題,跟這個世代公平之間的問題的話,我想啊,這個如果要把這個話題導到這邊來,我覺得乾脆就廢除老人福利法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6083.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6105.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
因為如果我想現行老人福利法跟各項的社會福利制度每一項基本上都是使用人民納稅錢如果要去談這個問題的話因為剛剛提到年輕人低薪房價過高少子化未來負擔等等這個是代表當代政府的無能但是不能把這個責任苛責歸咎於是因為我們要去負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6106.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6120.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
議員馬文君等16人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案。」案。閱讀委員長馬文君等16人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案。」案。閱讀委員長馬文君等16人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6130.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6152.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
全民健康保險法提到為了增進的是全體國民健康所以辦理這個全民健康保險所以合併起來看起來其實這個全民健康保險那在65歲上的這個老人的部分在本席的認知裡面他應該是全體整體整個國家的一個重大政策才對次長你對這個想對這樣的看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6153.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6153.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6176.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6196.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
還是要界定就是說我們現在目前老人福利法這邊有關的這一個20稅率20還是基本上還是社會保險那我想社會保險陳副委員您在您的論文大作裡面其實有提到其實基本上還是確實就是說風險分擔而且呢是要量能來負擔那我想這個部分我想這個其實基本的原則還是要來確立我認同當然是這個風險分擔那這個風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6201.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6201.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6228.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6248.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
全民健康保險費的負擔的部分明定丟給了職家縣市主管機關。但是我們又看回說老人福利法的第一條跟全民健康保險法的第一條他是為了增進全體國民健康那既然是增進全體國民健康他就理論上他應該是由中央直接來處理而不是讓各地方政府去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6249.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6271.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
因為像各地方政府去處理就會發生現在的問題就是各縣市的財政是不一樣的所以好的地方政府有錢地方政府他的確可以提供比較多補助但沒有錢地方政府他就等於沒有補助所以這件事情就等於違背了老人福利法也好全民健康保險法也好他一開始的立法的宗旨這是本席的見解啦所以說我為什麼要提這一條那再來喔這個次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6274.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6302.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
這個幾個名詞啊,老人共餐、長平學院、老人承認補助、老人裝置活動獎勵補助、長期照顧服務、增至老人送餐中心,這些名詞有沒有很熟悉?報告委員,我個人非常熟悉。市長為什麼提這個,因為這是您過去在台中市的德政。不敢不敢。那這個德政怎麼來的?當初是因為台中市那時候是沒有老人健保補助,所以把這個預算挪出來做這件事情。所以我們今天提這個就希望說,中央如果能夠來負擔了這個全民健康保險65歲以上的部分, |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6302.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6323.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
議員馬文君等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案 案 規定,大家可以再細究,我是定20%,但多少才符合公平正義,這個來細究,所以再討論。但是如果中央能夠把這一塊的預算,這一塊的福利制度,把它由中央來承擔,各地方政府去執行剛剛提到的這幾項地方上的福利政策的時候,它就有更多的餘裕。 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6324.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6324.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
議員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6343.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6355.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利法第11屆第2會期社會福利法第11屆第2會期社會福利法第11屆第2會期社會福利法第11屆第2會期社會福利法第11屆第2會期社會福利法第11屆第2會期社會福利法第11屆第2會期社會福利法第11屆第2會期社會福利法第11屆第2會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6358.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6358.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
五、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6387.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6388.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6414.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6414.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
二、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6437.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6439.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
二、委員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6456.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6479.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
委員長照老人福利等等的這個經費他能夠去執行這些事情我想未來也會遇到這個問題如果你衛福部要把所有的責任擔在身上我也沒有意見我是樂觀其成但是我今天提到說既然執行面是在地方政府裡面如果在這個執行面上是由地方政府來承擔的話那在財務面上如果能夠讓中央讓衛福部能夠幫他地方政府建 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6480.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6499.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
檢清財政負擔,我想對於未來的整體的老人的福利政策在執行面上才會比較有餘裕。好,謝謝市長。非常感謝委員,謝謝。好,謝謝黃建豪委員。接下來我們請張志倫委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6512.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6518.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
主席好,各位官員,各位委員,大家早安。是不是有請次長。好,請旅次長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6524.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6545.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
市長好,今天本席我們要來討論的就是有關於老人健保費的問題。可是在請教這個問題之前,我想要先顧一下全民的健康。我想請問一下現在這個癌症,全台灣十大癌症,排名前三名的癌症是哪三個?你清楚嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6551.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6571.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
對,應該是肺癌。謝謝,謝謝這個神救援。我想請教一下,肺癌過去以來,它是在這個癌症排名前三名裡面,可是它最近幾年一直排在我們全台灣癌症的第一名。想請問一下這個肺癌發生的原因是什麼?高發的原因是什麼?你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6572.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6573.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
二、委員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6589.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6616.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
罪癌已經現在卻榮升為第一名,國人得到癌症的第一名。新聞報導有指出除了抽菸以外,其實真正主要的原因就是空氣污染,就是臺灣錯誤的能源政策。所以這邊我再請教一下,次長這邊有沒有統計,現在全臺各縣市尤其在六都哪一個縣市肺癌發生的比例有增加,有沒有人可以回答這個問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6618.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6646.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
抱歉,是不是容我們再確認一下可以嗎?不好意思。好,那我這邊有統計六都的部分當然就我的得到資料臺中的部分真的成長的非常多所以基本上就是空污的問題錯誤的能源政策的問題那我請教次長我這邊想要來提出是不是這個衛福部應該跟環境部來討論讓人民有知的權利就是說現在我們空氣污染的這個警示燈號 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6647.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6653.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6676.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6677.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
議員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6695.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6696.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6712.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6740.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
好,謝謝次長從善如流其實這邊我也拜託這個跨部門大家要溝通應該讓人民有知的權利就是說如果今天的空氣品質是差的我出門我至少戴一個口罩而不是讓全民都好像活在這個不知道身邊就有空汙的情況下導致現在肺癌已經成為全台灣空汙排名的第一名所以這邊跟次長報告我也拜託環境部這邊大家一起共同來努力讓人民有知的權利第二個要跟請教次長的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6743.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6768.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
這個邱太元接任我們的衛福部的部長他有出一個健康白皮書他裡面有特別提到就是我們現在在講老人健保的65歲以上需要東東免拉健保費政府補助現在財源上有問題所以他特別有提到說調高政府投資保費支出從36%到38%他裡面特別有提出來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6769.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6771.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
而他特別提到說過去政府吹的什麼政策要花錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6785.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6807.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
而且他認為健保總額要用在醫療,過去政府推了什麼政策要花錢,編總預算很麻煩,因此常常便宜行事。就是沒有應該總額付出的錢也放在裡面,尤其他說之前好像有這個健保他把一些資料上傳到雲端這些的支出也放在總額裡面。所以這個次長你同不同意部長講的,你們應該趕快去爭取啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6808.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6832.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
條高政府投資指數從36%從36調到38%這樣就有多的預算來支持我們黨團的這個政策。報告委員我想邱部長他現在目前這個方向我想確實我想是非常好把這一個相關的這一個我們餅把它做大但是現在目前我必須要提醒就是說按照現在目前這個版本恐怕恐怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6833.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6834.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
二、委員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6852.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6852.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
二、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6878.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6879.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6903.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6930.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
二、委員我們現在是以那個就是類似日本的這個措施的那個方法就是說是一學期一學區一日照就是說你的整個整個這個交通範圍的這一個我們那我們也長照市這邊也全力在推動這一個整個這個日照中心的這個部件計畫我們是不是容我們會後我們再將官資料提供給委員非常感謝次長因為這是我非常關心我的政策其實當時也是想要一里一日照那希望大家一起來努力中央地方一條心一學區 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6932.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6957.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
一學區,現在改成一國中學區一日照。大家一起共同來努力。謝謝,謝謝次長。一學區一日照就是現在正在做的,並沒有擴大。這個次長你要講清楚,這沒有擴大,現行就只是一學區一日照。一學區是以國中,而且是國中,所以並沒有擴大。這個要澄清。 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6959.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6962.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
李燕秀委員次長我請次長謝謝次長我剛聽到你回答張委員的說法就是說健保要永續所以要去思考這個老人福利法我還是要提醒你就是說其實包括這個這個老保的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6987.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6989.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
議員馬文君等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7017.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7018.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7034.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7035.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7061.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7065.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案 案件》案件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7084.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7111.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
每月依舊有196萬瓶的缺口,但我們衛福部在這段時間重新去定義缺藥只是供貨吃緊。這個輸益很重要,沒有輸益開不了刀,然後病房有缺輸益,這是很大的大事。這不是供貨吃緊的問題,這是大事。市長,現在到底是怎樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7113.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7114.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
議員,有剛剛所提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7130.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7130.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7154.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7176.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我們也有請國內的業者持續的提高產能。國內業者搞一條生產限制是要半年以上的時間,拜託。搞一條生產限制要半年以上的時間。目前這些廠商。現在市場醫院大量的需求,衛福部這個是寡占市場,你們這個不提供出來是大事。 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7177.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7177.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
二、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7195.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7199.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7219.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7220.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7229.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7253.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
都同樣的換一個部長也是同樣的口號啊換一個政次也是啊所以怎麼處理那報告委員其實我們在去年112年3月的時候藥品供應通報處理中心的話其實我們有建立這個專人專者跨司署的一個合作的一個計畫然後這些日子以來我們除了這個建置這個我們在底下的你們在底下的人齁都是同一批人四年前到現在你們都是同一批人 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7258.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7274.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我覺得我看起來都是藉口,寫這些文青式的解決方案跟方式都是藉口但是對民眾端來講,病人來講或醫院端來講、需求者端來講我覺得你們都沒有真正解決缺藥的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7276.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7276.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7301.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7321.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
提降低到施打年齡層當然是好事但是這只是暫時未來會不會這個政策會不會持續這是我第一個問題肺炎練球桿菌市長第二個問題這個校期是到多少到什麼時候你們這一次突然開放是因為校期快到了所以才突然開放嗎不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7324.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7325.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
委員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7338.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7355.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
市長我要提醒你如果是因為我覺得當然肺炎練球桿菌可以降到50歲以上可以施打我個人是支持這個政策我希望不是暫時性的但是今年是因為我們庫存過多才鼓勵大家施打那我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7357.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7357.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7370.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7390.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我覺得未來的決策可能要重新去做調整否則的話要不然的話你們未來就是50歲以上都用公費施打我支持但是不要在最後我不知道什麼時候JP什麼時候過期什麼時候過期不知道我聽到的是6月底之前就要過期所以你們現在趕快叫人家趕快來施打我覺得這樣不好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7391.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7410.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我提醒你們這樣這個政策這樣是有問題的這個決策是有問題的你要不就提早管控五月中五月初可能庫存很多趕快鼓勵大家趕快降低年齡層免費公費施打這個時候再來才來叫我覺得你們決策有問題好謝謝OK非常感謝委員謝謝好謝謝李恩秀委員我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7425.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7437.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7450.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7470.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
二、委員王熙宏等22人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案。」案。adequate 2、委員張嘉郡等22人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案。」案。adequate 3、委員張嘉郡等22人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案。案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7780.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7806.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
好 我們繼續開會接下來我們請鄭天才 鄭天才 鄭天才委員不在鄭振淺 鄭振淺 鄭振淺委員不在羅賓才 羅賓才 羅賓才委員不在張嘉郡 張嘉郡 張嘉郡委員不在我們請林淑芬委員質詢主席 各位大家早安是不是還請我們次長好 請李次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7817.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7841.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
市長你好。最近一次你到餐廳用餐是什麼時候?最近一次到餐廳用餐?包括委員我想不起來了。沒關係。那你有沒有用過QR Code點餐?點餐以後有使用線上支付結帳嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7843.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7858.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
現上支付。你!你是別人替你服務的吧?你有沒有到過麥當勞肯德基摩斯漢堡的自助點餐機點過餐,自己操作? |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7860.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7876.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
拜託委員沒有 我都用現金的啦 抱歉抱歉 不是啦 不是現金 我是自助點餐機欸 自己去操作 沒有櫃台 沒有那個點餐人員的 因為我 我算比較有錢人齁 你幾歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7882.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7897.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
抱歉 這個是不應該回答的抱歉抱歉抱歉我再次必須要請你回答因為這個跟這個有關你幾歲了抱歉可是這個跟我的主題有關啊我太壞了我太壞了我國國歷史啦1962年國國啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7905.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7924.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
五十五年次啊。五十八,今年五十八。好,我就要跟你講喔。數目發布在2023年,發布了一個112年數位發展調查報告。它的報告內容指出啊,從年齡差異來看,個人上網率大概以60歲為分界。12到59歲的民眾上網率達91.9%以上。但是60到64歲就下降到剩下83.7%。 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7934.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7963.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
六十五歲以上的民眾上網率是只有51.6%,那換言之大概六十歲,抱歉我問你年齡是因為這個原因,六十歲以上就有數位落差,那近五成的六十五歲以上的長者不會使用網路。再來只是使用網路喔,你只要會用LINE就有在使用網路喔。是沒錯。現在我告訴你,可是這裡面有一個更精準的一個分析喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7964.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7981.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
報告裏面有一個叫資訊與通信科技禁用權ICT這個禁用權和使用和素養的年齡一同匯整表那可以看得出來資訊查詢如果不要講直上網從資訊查詢和行動支付兩項指標來看60到64歲都開始就低於全體的平均值但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7993.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8008.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
六十五歲以上呈現雪崩式下滑。六十五歲以上他使用網路做資訊查詢的只有18%,那使用行動支付的? |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8008.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8026.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
只有10%,10.6%所以對於這個65歲以上使用資訊查詢和行動支付的這個兩個指標來看的話,其實是雪崩式,幾乎沒效啦!高聲沒在用電子支付的啦!你剛才說你有在用還是沒有?電子支付,你有沒有來配?Google配?台灣配?市長有沒有?沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8038.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8039.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
五十八歲的沒有啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8043.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8050.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8072.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8083.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
現在AI的發展日新月異長者的日常生活注定跟社會環境其實是越來越衝突的因為高齡上的數位落差變成高齡的挫折外出的挫折然後變成高齡歧視後來就變成高齡被邊緣化 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8095.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8117.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
欸這是一個階段一個階段社會好像年輕人越來越方便網路越來越方便可是呢欸老人越來越邊緣啊因為數位落差讓老人結果不敢走出去不敢走出來那我講點餐來講光是你知道餐廳很多手機和平板點餐那對高齡者來講他有什麼考驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8118.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8142.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
市長,你想得到它會有什麼障礙?包括其實有幾個部分,第一個就是說可能字體大小,還有另外一方面就是說... 太小字,老花眼,手指不靈敏,不會使用這個系統。那根據紅道老人福利基金會的處長陳煥宇他表示,長者的科技落差在於科技點餐越來越普及的現代社會中越來越困窘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8143.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8158.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
连到超市买东西都因为不擅长使用APP然后招牌队等待客人嘲讽有人会冷言冷语说不会买就不要出来所以即使不是长者不关你你中年的中年 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8160.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8188.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
對於科技點餐也有障礙。然後即便你要去適應和學習也要花時間。所以紅道基金會也收到長輩遇到類似的困擾,像手機點餐點了老半天,他一直點都沒有辦法進入下一步,或是點到最後一個步驟了,然後不小心又滑到了,變成回到上一頁又得重來了。那有時候點餐時的螢幕字體太小,老花眼看不到,其實都是從重重的障礙和阻礙。 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8189.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8189.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8216.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8216.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8238.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8239.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8255.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8255.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
議員主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8285.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8304.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
坐到中午一直坐,一直就坐在那裡。所以你知道大型醫院會協助所謂的長輩敬老,會提供協助的是幾歲的嗎?大型醫院。不是啦,那志工都提供幾歲的你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8306.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8330.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
所謂的敬老醫院給他們的協助是幾歲你知道嗎?市長85歲市長這些問題都很嚴重我們今天講說給老人什麼福利給老人什麼照顧連他生活上的這個數位落差讓他所受到的困擾和遭遇他其實就是很大的社會排斥了和排擠了你知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8331.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8346.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
而如果使用現場查詢下載醫院的APP可以推估但他沒有辦法推估時間所以只能一直等而且對經常出入醫院的長輩來講只要就診回診不是太早到就是預估錯誤晚到導致過號所以就是時間都耗在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8349.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8376.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
所以不是只有這個團體老人福利團體在觀察連年輕人都自己觀察到說如果沒有我們年輕人自己的爸爸媽媽也是一樣可是很多爸爸媽媽說我不要麻煩你年輕人然後到時候就說沒有年輕人幫忙也不想麻煩年輕人的話我們就乾脆不要外出去消費但是這個符合我們國家提升高齡者跟社會連結的政策目標嗎?次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8378.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8392.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
包括委員那個確實我們現在目前就是說資訊社會裡面就您剛剛說的這個數位落差這個我們要趕快來趕上去那我跟委員報告我們現在目前在社區照顧關懷據點長青學院我們現在目前都有推類似像這樣的一個的一個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8393.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8415.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
對啦,我們說得很好聽。2022年我們行政院核定了因應超高齡社會對策方案啦然後提到我們2026年會進入超高齡社會老人人口賺總人口的比率會20.8到2036年會達到28%進入極高齡社會的國家那所以你們當然也有一些政策啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8415.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8424.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
提升高齡者數位連結,降低高齡者數位落差的政策。如果你所說在社區大學裡面教,可是你知道社區大學裡面教什麼嗎?教什麼?內容。 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8427.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8451.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
一般通常就是說以我在國際台中服務的經驗大概就是說像如何上網啦還有對於一些整個這一個就是設備使用的一些的一些knowledge你講了一部分而已啦他在教社區大學關懷據點教你怎麼使用FB啊怎麼使用通訊軟體LINE啊你怎麼玩遊戲調記身心啊但是跟我剛才講的那一些都不一步 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8451.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8452.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8476.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8501.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
人手一機但是完全不會那他也沒有辦法辨別網路詐騙更不要講用手機進行網路掛號和看準的進度而且重點是社區大學你所謂的整個國家整體的改善數位落差的政策和教學都是紙上談兵在那裡啊看這個放影片然後就是照這樣你就照這樣做聽完以後老人家就是鴨子聽雷啦對 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8503.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8506.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8533.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8546.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
你就知道說我們真的整個衛福部從來都沒有思考解決這部分的障礙和問題。韓國2022年因為疫情所以加速了它整個社會的數位化的時代。全韓國電子自助機台 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8551.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8562.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15會期社會福利及� |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8576.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8596.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
但又害怕說很丟臉所以乾脆不外出避免消費所以讓這樣的數位落差讓高齡者其實更遠離社會的所以首爾後來首爾就做了什麼知道嗎他就增設慢機台專門給這個長輩給他慢慢操作你不要有壓力這是長輩慢慢操作台然後經濟到的地區也幫長輩們上幾數位課把電子機台 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8604.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8618.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
一、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案。」案件說明到使用程序一切手把手教學還讓長輩直接上機練習除此之外疫情期間韓國因為銀行業務全面調整那兩年關閉了600家銀行分行 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8623.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8629.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
所以全面擴大網路金融服務但是全韓國60到70歲的民眾網路銀行使用率到目前只有37%然後70歲以上的長者只有一成南韓的銀髮族說沒有人幫我下載這個網銀APP |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8639.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8640.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8665.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8685.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
所謂的女大社會福祉學系的教授提到數位落差使長輩的社交範圍縮小甚至遭到破壞他們會因此感到孤單孤獨老人輕生率可能提高而縮小生活中的數位落差防止長輩們出現社會疏離感 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8688.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8717.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
打造友善的高齡環境是後疫情時代的重要課題所以因應這樣子邁向超高齡社會勢必一定要加速調整精進你的政策的重點市長數位落差的現行執行策略和具體工作你一定要好好的去盤點不要在那裡紙上談兵而且不是實際生活需要的你要針對高齡者的日常生活進行數位科技應用擴大所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8719.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8733.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
關懷據點：所有社區大學裏面的具體生活能力的教導的課程。你都沒有做,基本上我們完全不需要思考過這項問題。你自己就沒效。謝謝林書柯委員的資訊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8747.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8769.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
接下來我們請楊瓊英委員質詢。謝謝主席。楊瓊英發言,邀請次長。好,請理事長。次長好。委員好。本席跟黃家豪委員等22人所提出的條文第22條,你贊同嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8771.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8795.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
報告委員我想那個關心那個長輩都是我們共同的因為東北總是說對我們國家對我們家庭都很有貢獻但是就是我就是我們一再強調這個基本上還是社會保險社會保險還是要就是說大家有年齡有年齡我們是不是社會保險大家有年齡但是沒年齡的時候政府就要來協助你來自台中沒錯最清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8796.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8796.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
二、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8812.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8830.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案 案 令一、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案 案 令一、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案 案 令一、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案 案 令一、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條條文修正草案 案 令一、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條條文修正草案 案 令一、委員張嘉 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8840.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8868.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
總人口的總比應該是20.28那年輕人口的這個定義呢就老年人口是21%那我們已經快要達到了2036年我們預估更會達到28%進入極高年化的這個國家那台灣漫入這樣的一個情況我們國人的醫療需求也是正向的快速在成長那要怎麼樣能夠降低國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8869.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8871.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案。」案 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8884.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8906.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
各地要有讓它有一致性的一個公平所以本席跟黃建豪委員所提出的第22條的修正條例也希望待會在實質討論的時候能夠得到行政部門的一個支持所以請教你是否再一次請教支持對於最近一年綜合所得稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8908.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8926.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
總額合計未達到申報標準或中俄的稅率未達到百分之二十以上的老人由中央主管機關全額補助健保費,以符合整個世代的正義精神。 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8929.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8953.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
我非常感謝委員的意見但是我還是來回復一下委員就是如果說我們相關財源我想當然很好可是現在有個問題在於剛剛說就是說我大概兩個數字跟委員報告如果按照現在目前20%的話大概就佔我們所有老人84% |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8955.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8978.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
所以更可以去看到這個問題的需求條但是問題就是說我們的老人我跟委員報告一個數字因為我們最近都在報稅嘛稅率百分之二十以前家戶所得是一百二十一萬到兩百到兩百五十到兩百五十二萬我們現在年輕的那個我們中衛所得是三萬七千五三萬七千五我平均起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8979.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8985.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9001.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9003.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9020.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9022.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
二、委員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9041.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9060.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
雖然我們八次被排擠在台灣人很勇敢的我們還是將會帶隊各政黨派一位去我們部長在那裡我們不斷的吶喊這是台灣人的精神這才是真正在做事不要政治話術所以呢本席要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9061.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9083.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我們要怎麼樣改善護理人力的一個短處的問題。那我們這一次去我也希望部長可以帶回來一些可以借鏡因為在一月份的公告三班互併比的這個標準三月一號開始來執行來實施那搭配了三班輪流夜班的人員給予獎勵我要請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9086.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9108.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
目前實施三月一號開始實施到現在你認為實質改善的成果到底是怎麼樣因為基層的護理師人員的工作越來越繁複加入的因子越來越多在這樣的情況之下勞動強度不減因子會越來越多所以換句話說他休假會一再的受到阻撓 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9110.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9134.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
甚至要跨科來支援。跨科來支援,外科要來支援內科,沒有人就是淡路。所以護理人員很辛苦。我們要怎麼樣的去滾動式的來修正。因為護理工作是我們醫療體系當中非常重要的一環。那部長,你要怎麼樣作為護理人員的後盾?請說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9134.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9164.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
非常感謝委員對於這個部分的關心,我想也非常非常敬佩。那我兩個重點,第一就是我們在去年12月已經有核定新政院那邊有12項的一個對策。那互併比只是其中之一,我想這個要多元。另外第二個就是剛剛委員有非常關心的,有關於這一個跨科的部分,其實這個部分會牽涉到勞動部,他們那邊有一些相關的規範。我想這個部分,我想委員的關心我們非常佩服,而且這也是全民大家共同的...你佩服本席提出問題,但是你沒有回答本席的問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9165.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9185.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
從3月1號開始來執行現在是5月底本席請問的是你認為到目前為止成效如何?去年行政院核定的12項也是我們積極吶喊所以本席已經有這樣的政策本席請問你的成效會不會改變?是 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9186.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9201.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
本席是要請你去看我們的政策執行的當中我們的成效怎麼樣好給予加冕不好我們要滾動式的檢討所以我請你詳細的書面資料給本席你執行到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9201.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9220.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
你要怎麼樣滾動式的調整讓他們真正有這個成效。第二個三班制的互併比跟跨科因為本席說的內科跟外科一起差很多雖然都是護理師所以在這個跨科的情況你回答的是說是這個勞動部的問題不許這樣回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9224.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9251.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
因為這是你管控的是你主管機關你要去了解跨科目前到底有多少實際我們缺少了多少人你要去探問問題出來你才可以去解決問題啊你堆給勞動部幹什麼那你就不要站在這裡了嘛所以我是以重心長啦因為護理師人員真的好辛苦我們每一天服務處都在接受陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9253.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9268.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
護理人員真的太辛苦了。福利中心從根源要護理師科系的相關科系可以做的要怎麼樣誘引讓他們可以來。現在他們做的工作所限缺需要的到底是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9269.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9290.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這才是我們要解決問題不要隨隨便便的答覆這是勞動部這本席不予認同所以一樣的跨科系的這個問題可以怎麼樣去解決請你詳實去了解因素那你講你預計你可以改善的方式給本席好不好這個才是我們實質在討論最後一個議題長病毒的問題我們呢從6月17號臺北市 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9296.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9318.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
全額補助弱勢的那71型疫苗的這個一兩劑那麼台北市預計有800名的兒童受惠新北從5月23、3歲以下弱勢幼兒也可以免費來接送所以我要請教部長預防重瘀治療部長你有沒有研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9319.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9320.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9337.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9339.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
委員許宇甄等22人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案 案。」案 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9354.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9356.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
議員馬文君等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9387.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9390.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我以為一般上來通常備詢的首長都會說委員好先。委員好。好,次長好,因為我想跟你問好。好,沒關係。不要緊張。那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9415.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9416.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9445.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9463.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
署長不用擔心我今天沒有要跟你argue要不要調到55歲齁所以這個你可以會後再跟次長講那次長你有沒有看過這個資料有的有齁這個我有看到你覺得他寫的好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9466.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9489.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
好了沒關係我們來我是故意問你一下那這是這個原住民檢疫生命表的分析內容那這個分析表的資料是每年由衛福部提供給內政部然後再由內政部進行統計分析整理之後公佈那當然呢也包括把資料回饋給衛福部作為施政的參考我們現在看到的是110年的資料那下一張是這個111年的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9495.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9522.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
市長你既然看過這個結論你有沒有發現什麼問題?我們現在目前大概就是說平均餘命大概都在延長那這是一個一般的一個趨勢當然也是因為跟我們整個這個公共衛生健保的貢獻但確實就是說原住民的這個部分確實叫一般我們一般我想這個也不光台灣我想這個像比如澳洲紐西蘭等等這些都有類似的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9524.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9537.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
我們這個部分我們會來持續推動這部分我想是這樣子就是說數據的如實分析沒關係我等一下我們先繼續看好了啦我來帶你做一下這個數學 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9539.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9568.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
那我們就是這個結論的這個內容標題都是一樣那原住民的平均餘命就是成上升趨勢對沒錯還有跟全體國民差距成縮小趨勢前面喔都有加這個長期兩個字喔對好像看起來都是沒有錯的可是這幾年的變化是真的是這樣嗎那次長依照你的瞭解這就是如此嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9574.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9575.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我確實不太確定,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9585.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9605.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
沒關係我們再來看一下這是原住民平均逾一命的各年資料是乘這個上升的趨勢沒有錯這個是原住民跟這個全體國民的平均逾一命的差距的資料看起來也是在縮小也沒錯但是我們再看下一張問題來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9607.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9633.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
如果我們看這個表這個答案就不簡單了之前大家有個說法包括去年審查原住民族健康法的時候衛福部也提供相同的資訊那105年到109年間這五年原住民的平均餘命總共提高了1.74歲我把速度放慢105年到109年原住民的平均餘命提高1.74歲是 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9635.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9656.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
大家就四舍五入說我們平均移民都提高將近兩歲可是全體國人也是提高1.32歲所以這五年原住民的平均移民提高的情況並不是單純的就是說我們的這個好像想像中就是提高了這個將近兩歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9660.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9680.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
如果我們講到原住民與全體國人的差距政府公布的資訊是109年到111年之間這三年縮短了1.47歲你如果沒有follow到我的速度我可以再重複放慢沒關係但是你要告訴我可是實際上是這樣這麼單純嗎我們來看一下這個表二 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9686.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9700.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
各年齡層這三年間平均餘命差距都縮小了1.5歲左右可是我們看到下一排紅字的數據這三年全體國人的平均餘命 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9701.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9704.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
全體國人平均餘命下降的結果而不是原住民的平均餘命上升 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9716.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9733.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我再講一次這個是全體國人平均餘命下降的結果不是我們原住民平均餘命上升所以次長用單一數據然後說明原住民的平均餘命有大幅的改善你不覺得這個有很大的盲點嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9735.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9739.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
市長,這次用單一數據說故事的問題,連衛福部送給行政院核定的原鄉健康不平等改善策略行動計畫也是這麼寫的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9753.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9771.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
結果害去年行政院頒布的新聞稿也是只寫平均餘命縮短差距幾歲卻沒有提到其他的數據其實這三年原住民的平均餘命是稍微下降大概少了0.01歲所以次長這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9776.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9802.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
衛福部內的機關的單位包括社家署、照護司、統計處等等都會用這個數據的單位你們一定要全面檢討而且要特別注意因為這樣很容易造成民眾的誤解而且你們每年提供資料給內政部的時候也都應該要跟內政部好好的溝通一下這個問題當一個數據交到你們手上的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9806.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9807.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
不是都只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9809.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9835.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
應該要有很多的計算方式橫向、縱向看到底要怎麼加加減減會有不一樣的結果出來所以數據的分析我們的如實分析其實是要找出問題的是要研擬對策然後要解決問題不是說要來美化然後粉飾太平所以我在這裡特別做這樣的提醒那我待會會後我會給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9837.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9859.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這個不是假新聞這是一個真新聞但是它不是一個專業的新聞那你參考一下這個文件站的這個新聞稿那因為你新上任我多送你這個36秒讓你休息我簡單回答一下就是說我們在研究法裡面其實就是說你不同的測量就不同的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9860.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9862.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
五、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9890.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9904.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
接下來我們請劉建國委員質詢。好,謝謝主席。有請部長,呃,社長。要升官了。來,理事長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9907.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9921.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
好,這樣邱部長就危險了。好,先恭喜我們的李建德次長來接任這個農論衛生部的次長。那這個應該都有掌握嘛,衛環委會召開了一些相關的會議,還有相關的業務都清楚嘛。趕快在進入狀況再學習。那你知道3月28號衛環委會排什麼專案報告嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9934.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9945.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
三、二十八齁?對、對、對。你不是進入狀況了?抱歉、委員、抱歉。三、二十八因為我以前還沒準備好。你剛才說他還沒來。對。你也是說他從這裡來的。對。你是說他從醫藥這裡來的。對、對、對。你有進入狀況嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9953.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9966.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
你有沒有掌握衛福委員會召開的相關...我在努力學習當中。學習跟掌握是兩回事。是是是。那一天召開社會安全缺失檢討及具體改進的作法的專案報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9971.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10000.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那市長當時知道那是為了什麼事件召開嗎?我知道,就是那個我們現在那個新北,那個凱凱的那個那時候我在諮詢,也在這個委員會諮詢學前部長就發現這個有蠻多缺失的,急需要來改善那其中一個最大的缺失是這個針對凱凱案有特殊家庭的小朋友未婦原有訂這個直轄室縣市政府運用居家托育人員照顧家外安置 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10000.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10019.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案案的原則,有些規定有三項,第一,建立至少每六個月盤點適合照顧安置個案之居托人員名單。第二,提供居托人員照顧家外安置兒童相關專業訓練。第三,訓練課程建設包括安置個案類型創傷階級問題輔導。 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10024.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10031.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
都有這樣的原則把關。最後還是凱凱案的悲劇發生。這原因出在什麼地方? |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10032.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10056.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
拜託委員,我想這裡面大概就是說有幾個部分,一個是就是說我們社工同仁對於這個部分的一個認知,還有整個收出養的這一個制度的一個完善。還有另外一個其實事實上就是中央跟地方的這一邊的一個相關的一個協調的部分,橫向的這個聯繫。主席時間是不是可以暫停一下,因為我要放那個放不出來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10059.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10088.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我今天沒辦法放。前面都可以啊。你的問題,你要講你的問題啊。好,對不起。好,謝謝。我是這樣啦齁,我當時看待是說因為台北市政府覺得他的安置資源是充足啦齁。對。啊所以就不需要照這個處理原則來處理啦。嗯,沒錯。所以才發生這個憾事齁。那時候薛、薛布也很生氣啦齁。對。啊生氣就沒有用啦。嗯。然後,然後導致這個台北市沒有這樣的名單。 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10088.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10112.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那那那也硬要誇區到這個沒有建置到家外安置的托育人員的臺北市所以一步一步把這個凱凱推向死亡的這樣的一個一個結局嘛吼也因此啦吼世家署有經過檢討所以他在4月30又公佈了一個叫做自家縣市的政府居家托育服務中心訪視工作指引要來強化這個居家托育的服務的這個訪視工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10113.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10122.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
但是這個工作指引會不會又變成台北市還是哪一個縣市覺得要自己支援足夠或怎麼樣又不遵照這個指引了那你們怎麼處理? |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10124.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10126.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
委員馬文君等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10151.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10172.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
市長,你那邊坐啦,你站在那邊我覺得很難過啦。對啊,好像我在懲罰你。今天之前有定原者,那地方政府就不知道這樣辦理。你現在定了指引,他如果又不知道這樣,他覺得指引夠,他就不需要,又發生事情了,然後怎樣,你們又在那邊震怒,震怒有用嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10173.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10197.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
已經要丟了一條人命了?還是發生悲劇?我們現在目前有已經有通過一個整個市安網2.0那之前在那個林萬一林政委他那邊的一個指導之下我們現在目前的整個這個人力上面我們現在目前會來有一個倍增計畫還有另外一個就是說您剛剛像委員剛剛所說的我們現在也會定班就是說這一個他的整個這個地方政府他們的整個處理原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10197.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10197.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10215.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10238.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
現在不是只有我們社交組、衛福部的社交組遇到這個問題啦。連社交組也遇到之前的蘇丹農事件。也有相關之前我們針對食品的相關的手冊沒有特定。這個手冊早已經被要點、新的要點取代了。那地方政府後來拿著這個手冊來跟對方在那邊、跟我們中央在那邊argue。 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10238.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10260.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我覺得這個事情,所以當我們訂原則,當我們訂職員,如果地方政府不遵守的話,你們怎麼處理嗎?報告委員,我們現在目前就是說,另外就是我們有那個社福考核,績效考核,那他如果說那個不符合的話對不對,那對不起,那我們的可能以後的整個補助上面分數會低。只有這樣的手段而已? |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10261.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10261.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
二、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10277.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10278.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
議員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10292.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10292.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10308.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10333.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
所以依照衛福的資料22個縣市的施工需求是將近4200人現在禁用差不多3700左右 監控率不到九成尤其新北市的需求人數最高它的監控率也只有七成一那同時我這邊有個資料就是五年內台灣的社工需求又高達4185但是現在每年願意投入到社工師的行列每年才685我把它算起來不到八成 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10335.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10358.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
六八五乘以五,再除以四一八五,又不到八成。就越來越少。現在又依據台灣社會工作教育協會在一百零九年所做的調查,它是一百零九年,因為我後面調不到資料。世工系所總計遭受的學生碩士博士有三零八一人,三千出。但現在每年投入到世工師職場才六百多人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10358.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10385.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
也就是差不多25%左右剩下75%他不投入這個職場裡面什麼原因?包括委員大概我想主要三個部分因為我自己也在大學裡面教書了那大概有三個部分一個是教考訓練這個B之間的這一個整個結合問題另外第二個其實最重要還是剛剛委員剛剛所說的社工他自己本身的薪資、勞動條件的部分那薪資的部分我們現在目前在社安網2.0我們之前已經也已經有一個相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10386.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10409.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
有一個社工倍增策略,委員當然說你倍增的問題也誘因,誘因的部分我們現在就有兩個部分,薪資薪資的部分我們公部門薪資我們現在目前已經有提高另外第二個是在私部門的話我們又有一個整個這一個相關的整個這個補助那另外一個就是說我們現在會加強你這個社工系的學生在大三、大四的時候你就可以到我們的機關裡面做實習 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10411.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10413.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案 案 》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10436.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10443.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
日本我都沒記錯應該八四五一比八四五八四五日本韓國瑜 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10446.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10472.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
韓國...沒關係啦,就這樣討論啦,我們不是要故意跟次長...如果韓國沒有記錯的話,大概...他比我們略好一點,大概一...如果沒記錯他一零二多吧?一零二多?對不起,我這邊資料是不是有錯誤?就請部長再double check。你剛講日本是一比八百多嘛對不對?我這邊是一比四三六。那你剛剛講韓國是一比一零多嘛,一千多嘛。我這邊是一比二八九。 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10474.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10480.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
韓國對香港是一比四一樣韓國我可能如果我的數據錯馬上提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10482.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10506.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
對,我講這樣啦,我講這樣,你看臺灣就是一比一二多,我這邊是一跟你的數據差不多喔,你是一二三五,我是一二四九啦,所以應該我底下這個數據應該也不會有多大的落差啦,但是剛剛聽市長講這個落差是蠻大的,那如果這樣的市場環境怎麼會好?對不對,畢業的學生、婆氏、碩士怎麼願意來投入? |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10507.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10508.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
五、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10537.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10538.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10566.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10573.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
可以達到我們讓這個社工的人力房可以解決了好不好一個月內這個我就要求時間比較快一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10574.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10578.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10599.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10617.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
但是當地方政府首長他要去展現他對65歲以上的不管什麼樣態的這些長輩讓他們減輕相關的一些負擔這個方向絕對是正確的無庸置疑但是到底要不要要不要要不要有一次的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10618.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10646.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
不要有城鄉落差不要有縣市之間的差異有的就像這是我看到的資料65歲的台北市的老人綜合所得稅率未達20%台南市女友中度65歲以上中度輕度身心障礙所涉且經稅監機關核定最近一年綜合所得稅未達12%台中市綜合所得稅稅率5%以下大大大大這是六都 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10647.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10662.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
則狀況就完全沒有一致性。當你完全沒有一致性的情況之下,現在全國是22個縣市,對不對?六都就有六個版本。22個縣市扣掉,是不是要變成17個版本?17個樣態。坦白說,也不為過。 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10670.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10687.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
而不而過的情況之下,你中央在主管健保的這個單位,這個主管機關,你要怎麼處理,要怎麼應應?我覺得要面對啦,要處理啦。中央為什麼有這個底氣,他願意來讓65歲以上的這些長輩免除了這個健保費這樣的一個負擔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10696.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10696.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
二、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10713.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10740.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
這個真的是要好好去盤點好好去做一些資料的一些調查我覺得是時候是不是部長回來之後社長就可以跟部長來做這個討論給他一些意見甚至也把主計單位找過來中央補助地方相關包含的專案計畫還有特同那個統籌密稅款的試算方法是不是一併要做一些大調整呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10743.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10766.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
委員馬文君等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案 案 及其中一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案 案 及其中一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案 案 及其中一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案 案 及其中一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條條文修正草案 案 及其中一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具:「老人福利法第二十二條條條文修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10767.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10768.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
議員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10785.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10786.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10803.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10808.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10832.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10837.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10859.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10886.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
市長您是社福專家不敢政學兩系不敢不敢那您說要把台中市的經驗推到全國本席想請教您您對於現在我們在全國實施的社區關懷據點的政策和施行的現況瞭解嗎報告委員正在瞭解中瞭解中對因為您剛上任是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10888.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10889.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
二、委員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10903.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10926.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
現在我們社區關懷據點的業務費發放的標準我們是按照開設的服務的時段但是你想想看同樣開設五個時段一週一週五個時段你的獎補助的經費是一樣的可是有的社區30人有的社區50人有的社區100多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10929.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10933.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
像這個就不合理嗎?是不是可以檢討?可以調整嗎?我想委員的這個意見非常好就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10939.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10939.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
二、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10963.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10982.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
是,包委員是不是可以容我們回去,我想我過去台中,我知道這個關懷據點對於長輩,我想那個鼓勵長輩能走出來,我想這是一個非常好的一個政策,那我們就是相關的補助,您剛剛說的這個部分,是不是我想我們來做一些檢討。 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10985.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10985.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11005.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11018.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及� |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11033.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11054.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
所以你看30個人跟80個人跟100個人其實這個費用上差異就很大了所以這個部分是不是一併可以來檢討好不好好OK好謝謝委員謝謝那這個部分一定要給我們一個回應因為這個真的地方我相信應該各地都有這個反應才對是其實我 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11055.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11073.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
其實我也了解不過我也跟委員報告就是說我們現在目前就是說有兩個部分一個事實上就是說剛剛委員剛剛關心的是說已經已有的我們如何深入可是我們現在另外還有一個必須要開拓要再開拓要開拓所以現在目前就是說我們現在是把這一個整個coverage就是把它覆蓋的範圍我們盡量 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11075.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11098.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
來我們先來先來做一個整個廣布因為其實現在目前現有一些我也知道就是有一些非常成功但現有對做得很好的你們還是要讓他不要讓他營運上困難啊對但我們還是希望就是說因為也跟我們報告就是說真的是國家這個資源還是就是說有限的情況之下我們是不是現階段先從面的擴充那至於就是說其實我們也有一個政策嘛就是說很多的一些不不不你那個人數你還是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11099.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11117.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
看依據情況嘛有的地方你面很廣但他需求不多你一定兩、二、三十個當然二、三十個我們也是要照顧但那個一百個的他真的很需求的你還是要照顧到啊你都已經辦了但是你這樣會讓人家感覺你就是辦個樣子你就是有做就好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11120.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11142.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
委員我們還是希望就是說已經就是說已經上已經這個表現好的那他們表現好但是他現在就是很困難你變成他你就你就有一點你其實扼殺他你你他表現好你不讓他繼續做嗎或者他沒有辦法好好的好好的往下所以這一塊我請你們一定要檢討接著第二點我我 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11143.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11148.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
請主席再給本席30秒。我們要反映一下有關健保總額點數的問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11151.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11176.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
而我們這個整個健保點數由這個天花板嘛總額管制對不對這點您應該知道所以在這種情況下這個全國分成六大區嘛你是按照各區你給他一個天花板那你桃竹竹苗區人口在近幾年增加率是全國算非常高的那你你這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11178.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11194.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12� |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11205.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11214.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
OK,我想委員說的確實,就是說我們那個在總額支付的一個制度之下,我想這個因為人口成長,我想這個相對的應該也來做一些考量。 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11217.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11236.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
對對對對但是你們這個一定要拿出辦法來這個是不是也可以在一個月內給我們一個回應因為我覺得這個情況這個衛福部一定很清楚啊我們趕快我想這個一個月給書面的資料好不好不是資料是要回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11239.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11254.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
這個情況十年來其實桃竹竹苗這一趨勢一直受到很大不公平的待遇好OK我們來那個把相關的我們再會來會來待會來演繹感謝感謝委員謝謝好謝謝好謝謝許卿委員接下來我們請楊耀委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11270.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11271.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
謝謝主席主席我請一下呂次長好請呂次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11279.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11296.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
市長我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案那有關健保費的補助的部分我想要先提一個問題所以我們健保的頭髮分為 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11299.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11323.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
六類的投保對象我覺得與其從年齡來做劃分我覺得第六類的投保對象通常都是經濟比較弱勢的他可能沒有雇主也可能是人民融券 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11326.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11352.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
現在就你們的瞭解第六類的投保對象他的保費跟他的造成的經濟負擔會是怎麼樣?好,非常感謝委員對於這部分的關心,我想兩個重點第一個就是說我們現在確實就是六類數目那第六類呢其實基本上就是所謂地區人口那地區人口裡面就是剛剛陳委員所說就是說他就是說沒有任何職業或者說無一定雇主 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11353.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11354.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11370.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11383.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
自營商也有可能。自營商、自營作業也在裡面。所以我意思就是說這個裡面,所以之前那個其實這個薛部長他確實也有承諾就是說我們對於第六類,對於有關於這個弱勢的部分,我們這邊確實在,我們會來趕快來有一個應用措施。對,或者是你們再把第六類再細分一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11395.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11422.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
真的有需要的我覺得我們還是必須要有錢給補助我可以跟委員報告一下就是說這裡面你詳細講沒關係就是說這裡面其實也簽了我們社會救助法社會救助法裡面我們現在目前有低收中低收嘛然後低收裡面有分一二三款那其實我們現在也跟委員報告就是說我們也希望就是說在這邊其實我們知道有一些是屬於所謂禁品 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11423.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11453.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11453.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11481.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
最需要去關注的反而是邊緣戶的部分。沒錯沒錯那你們就是趕快回去繳第六類然後不是像比較特殊的特殊金利等等這些然後又沒有福保的沒錯你們把它獨立出來我覺得這個是最需要而且是不分年齡的沒錯沒錯他是以家庭來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11483.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11483.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
我非常佩服委員的這個高見。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11512.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11526.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
因為我這邊看到的資料是未付出統計假如說全面的補助65歲以上的長者健保費呢中央必須要增加400億啊大概約359 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11530.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11541.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那我跟委員報告就是說因為每一年我們現在高齡化嘛那預估到2054會增加到627億627億那這個其實老實說20多少20542054會到增加到627億等於double嘛double其實這樣會排擠掉我們現在目前已經推動很多很多像長照2.3.0啊我們價錢的這個費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11556.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11575.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
所以這個這個假如法有通過這個還是要用公務預算來當然當然對好其他的我們等一下討論法條的時候再講好的我問一下就是因為我們現在已經允許外國外國 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11578.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11601.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
五月初勞動部預告了外國人從事就業服務法的46條大概就是允許外國人可以在臺灣考取取得社公司的國保執照可是沒有辦法工作啊是不是?他考取了不能工作嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11602.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11627.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
主席他目前預告要放寬我們現在已經預告了準備要來放寬各位委員我知道這個很多事實上就是說那等於是喬生對喬生他們我覺得這也很好因為喬生他們事實上因為我們的社會工作裡面也有一些像針對新住民等等這些他需要有一些文化敏感度那其實由他們他們在語言上面這個會有很多很多的一些這個共同性所以我想這個我們會來放寬我講我的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11629.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11630.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
二、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11645.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11646.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
委員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11676.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11693.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
則在這四百個小時內,他大概就必須要有,他會有適度的進入。一樣關心一下社工師。社工以及社工人員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11696.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11704.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
工作量越來越大。沒錯沒錯。因為他長期累積了負能量。是。那有可能他會跟著個案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11710.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11711.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11738.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11748.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11767.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11786.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我們重點都在被照顧者,其實照顧者本身的問題也不少。這個次長有什麼想法?你今天可以大概講一下就好了。我想整個有關社工的勞動條件,其實委員最重要的是心理諮商。 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11788.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11806.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
具有所知像主席王詠敏王委員其實他也是長期過去也是社工方面出身非常非常關心那這個部分有關於像這個部分我們大概兩個重點第一個就是說我們從107年起我們有公益彩券的回饋金有一個提升社工人員職業安全計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11807.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11831.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
這裡面包括就是說整個這一個對於我們的整個這個社公司的這一個社會心理的這一個諮商還有甚至還有包括律師諮詢費這個都從這個account他來支付另外第二個其實我們現在目前從去我們從這個去年開始有一個心理健康師針對15到30歲的這一個民眾他都有這一個他都有三次 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11832.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11844.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11862.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11891.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
對,然後你們回去大概也再看看從107年到現在我們執行的成效怎麼樣。好的。不要讓照顧者,我還是要講一下台灣社會對照顧者的關懷跟支持顯然太少了一點。好的。好,謝謝次長,謝謝主席。好的,非常感謝楊耀文的指教,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11893.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11918.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
好,謝謝楊耀委員。本日會議詢答全部結束。委員陳金輝、盧憲、易圖權及蘇清泉、張嘉俊所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報。現在作以下決議。一、說明及詢答完畢。二、委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者。請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆。委員另要求期限者從其所定。現在請宣讀提案條文內容。 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11919.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11933.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
老人福利法條文修正草案、委員許宇甄等22人提案、委員馬文君等16人提案、委員張嘉郡等20人提案、國民黨黨團提案、委員黃建豪等17人提案、委員王育敏等19人提案、臺灣民眾黨黨團提案、現行法條文對照表。 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11936.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11962.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
委員許宇甄等22人提案增訂第二十二條之一如下:「老人或申報老人為受撫養人之納稅義務人就參加全民健康保險之保險費經稅捐基徵機關核定之最近一年綜合所得總額合計未達申報標準或綜合所得稅稅率未達百分之二十者由中央主管機關應與補助。」委員張嘉郡等20人國民黨黨團提案第二十二條修正第一項及第二項如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11963.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11980.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
老人或其法定撫養醫務人就老人參加全民健康保險之保險費經稅捐基深機關核定其最近一年綜合所得總額合計未達申報標準或綜合所得稅稅率未達百分之二十者由中央主管機關全額補助。部分負擔費用或保險給付為涵蓋致醫療費用無力負擔者 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11982.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11993.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
由中央主管機關全額補助現行第二項移列為第三項委員黃建豪等17人提案第二十二條老人參加全民健康保險之保險費經稅捐積增機關核定其最近一年綜合所得總額合計未達申報標準或綜合所得稅稅率未達百分之二十者 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12000.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12024.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
由中央主管機關全額補助,老人或其法定撫養醫務人就老人參加全民健康保險之部分負擔費用或保險給付未涵蓋之醫療費用無力負擔者由中央主管機關全額補助,前二項補助之對象、項目、基準及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之。委員王玉敏等19人提案第二十二條修正第二項及第三項如下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12025.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12037.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
前項之保險費經稅捐積增機關核定其最近一年綜合所得總額合計未達申報標準或綜合所得稅稅率未達一定級距者由中央主管機關補助之。前二項補助之對象、項目、基準及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之。於與現行法同臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第二十二條修正第二項如下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12048.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12064.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
前項之保險費經稅捐基深機關核定其最近一年綜合所得總額合計未達申報標準或綜合所得稅稅率未達百分之二十者由……未達百分之二十者中央主管機關應補助之于與委員王育敏等19人提案同 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12064.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12089.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
委員馬文君等16人提案第二十五條增訂第三項如下:「年滿七十五歲以上之老人,其必要陪伴者以一人為縣,得享有前二項之優待措施,予以現行法同。」台灣民眾黨黨團提案第二十五條增訂第三項如下:「老人應需要陪伴者,其必要陪伴者以一人為縣,得享有前二項之優待措施,予以現行法同。」宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12092.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12107.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
好,謝謝。那上午出席跟修法無關的官員可以先行離開。好,那我們現在進行老人福利法第二十二條、第二十二條之一及第二十五條條文修正草案、繼期案之逐條審查。請委員表示意見。好,來,我們先請許宇甄委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12116.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12135.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
本席提出的這個針對增訂22條之一的老人福利法的這個草案主要是因為因為其實我們現在的狀況是因為各個縣市目前針對65歲以上的長者的健保費的補助其實都不一樣那目前大概就六都跟基隆 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12135.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12158.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
而有補助而且補助的標準也不一那因為正在一個憲法平權的一個概念其實我覺得針對全國的老者不應該因為他居住的縣市的不同該縣市的財務狀況不同而有補助的不同的一個標準所以我這邊特別提出了要增訂老人福利法第二十二條之一希望能夠就 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12159.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12161.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12187.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12210.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
謝謝許宇甄委員接下來我們請楊耀委員這個我看了一下是有大概有類似排富的形態可是65歲以上多數是退休的所以稅率本來就很難達到20%這個第一點第二點就是我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12217.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12222.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
還是就是健保費的政府補貼還是應該要用經濟的強弱來做區分補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12232.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12246.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
年齡可能比較不是一個比較妥適的方法而且剛剛我問過了大概每年要350幾億然後30年後要到600這個會不會造成國家的財政負擔這個也要考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12260.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12278.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
再加上前兩個禮拜討論的建保點值保障議員一點議員就會變成好像整個建保制度從支出到收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12279.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12305.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
有很多東西都是由政府政府以以公務預算來做補助這個會不會破壞到原本保險的本質這個我提供這樣子的意見供各位委員做參考謝謝好謝謝我們請陳昭志委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12312.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12339.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
剛剛謝謝主席剛剛楊耀文提到的部分我們臺灣的這個醫療健康醫療支出本來就是落後了這個所謂OECD國家許多如果純粹就就是所謂NH National Health Expenditure我們才6.1%百分之GDP百分之6.1OECD國家平均百分之九我們是倒數第二名就這個部分連韓國都是以這個方法計算大概他是八八或九日本是十一左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12339.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12340.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12358.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12360.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12382.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12382.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12402.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12403.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
委員許宇甄等22人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12430.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12430.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
黃秀芳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12450.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12475.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
我想請教就是說如果切65歲以上就是健保完全由中央支付那保費由中央全部支付那這樣子除了我們剛剛講的這個所得稅率未達百分之二十可能會增加三百多億嘛那在健保方面在健保方面你們會增加多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12476.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12489.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
則說原本可能是會有一些收入那這樣子如果是全部由中央支付的話那健保這邊到底會或者是說減少收入啦到底會減少多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12496.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12518.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
報告委員如果說那個全部補助那個65歲向老人的健保費那由公務預算去依註嗎所以我們健保的基金我們預估啦大概113年的統計大概會少就是會短收將近400億左右這樣子就是會基金的收入會短收400億 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12520.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12535.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
所以如果短收400億的話那你們這短收的部分是還需要公務預算來補貼或者是說你們本身就目前基金預算就已經很有餘裕來可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12536.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12555.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
目前基金預算的部分因為政府在今年度已經公務預算預租了兩百億特別預算預租了兩百億去年一二年預租了兩百四十億所以目前我們在計算我們的財務的部分其實到今年底還好就是還可以達到安全準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12556.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12557.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
議員馬文君等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12586.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12590.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12612.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12615.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12634.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12655.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
我覺得你們應該要再精算那我是不是可以建議主席今天這個是不是可以擇期再審那等到這個部長回來之後我覺得很多問題應該部長回來之後應該再把你們所精算出來的再跟委員會這邊做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12657.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12684.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
接下來我們請楊耀委員發言我也先復議黃秀芳委員的主張就是我們應該等到部長跟健保署署長回歸再審一次不過我們今天還是委員會還是召開我覺得陳昭芝委員講的沒有錯就是我們可能在健康投資的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12686.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12686.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12711.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12724.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
老人看病的比例次數比較多,這個也是事實,因為人本來就這樣子。免健保費跟免部分負擔,哪個方向比較好? |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12731.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12751.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
這個是不是大家也可以考慮一下就是說他看病的次數比較多那減免減或免他的部分負擔是不是更符合實際的需要這個提供大家做一下參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12753.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12754.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
委員陳昌智委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12776.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12782.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2會期社會福利及衛生 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12803.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12809.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 «老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12820.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12820.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12835.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12836.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12864.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12865.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12887.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12887.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
二、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12901.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12902.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
二、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12926.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12952.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
好,兩位要發言出委員會也是要介紹不過我還是覺得也沒差一兩個禮拜就是等部長跟署長回來我們再做一次充分的討論那大家把應該講的講完再出委員會好,那謝謝各位委員的發言那我想的確部長不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12954.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12982.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
現在還在國外那我們可以等部長部長回來我們就會做決定跟處理那這兩個禮拜的時間就拜託這個次長相關的一些數據就是在整理分析的更清楚因為委員提案目前各縣是有是那個未達5%就是健保補助的你們今天缺乏這部分資料好不好那就把這個資料都準備清楚那我們則期再審議那現在做一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12985.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12995.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
決議:「老人福利法第二十二條之一及第二十五條條文修正草案 令則其繼續審查。」本次會議到此結束,現在散會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13044.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13048.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
委員張嘉郡等20人擬具:「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案 案。」案。 |