| IVOD_ID |
15957 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15957 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-29T08:30:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-29T12:21:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:50:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528ea75a1f35c7302ecdad9f551ce5fa921f3be8d109af184be47b08eb46e6e87ec25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:15 - 12:21:00 |
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13771.26284375 |
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SPEAKER_06 |
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13770.75659375 |
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SPEAKER_07 |
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13771.11096875 |
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13771.16159375 |
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SPEAKER_06 |
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13771.16159375 |
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13772.03909375 |
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SPEAKER_07 |
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13772.03909375 |
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13794.11159375 |
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SPEAKER_07 |
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13794.73596875 |
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SPEAKER_07 |
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13810.29471875 |
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13813.97346875 |
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SPEAKER_06 |
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13813.97346875 |
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13820.31846875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1866.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1870.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
主席宣布現在開始開會請議事人宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國113年5月10日星期一14時31分至16時37分 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1887.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1905.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
中華民國113年5月22日星期三九十一分至十三十二十一分地點 群仙樓九樓大禮堂出席委員林德福等十四人 列席委員鄭天才等二十五人 列席官員113年5月22日星期一財政部部長莊翠盈 行政院主計總處副主計長陳慧娟等列席官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1907 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1921.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
113 年 5 月 12 日 星期三金融監督管理委員會主任委員彭金隆等主席 羅昭紀委員明財113 年 5 月 24 日 報告事項 宣讀上次會議事錄決定議事錄確定討論事項 審查財政收支劃分法十四案 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1923.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1945.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
1.本院台灣民進黨黨團理據財政收支劃分法修正草案2.本院國民黨黨團委員羅明才等23人委員林思明等20人委員徐宇貞等16人委員洪孟台等22人分別理據財政收支劃分法部分條件修正草案等5萬3.本院委員吳立華等17人理據財政收支劃分法第三條條件修正草案4.本院委員陳玉珍等24人理據 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1946.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1969.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
財政收支劃分法第8條條人修正草案5.本院委員王宏威等24人擬拒財政收支劃分法第8條第12條及第30條條人修正草案6.本院委員陳昌明等17人擬拒財政收支劃分法第8條第12條及第16條之一條人修正草案7.本院委員賴瑞榮等16人委員蔡玉儀等16人分別擬拒財政收支劃分法第16條之一條人修正草案等2案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1970.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1987.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
本院委員賴世保等二十九人擬據財政收支劃分法第十六條之二第三十七條之二及第三十八條之二調研修正常案本院委員賴世保等二十二人擬據財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一調研修正常案經委員洪孟凱兼國民黨黨團代表臺灣民眾黨黨團代表黃珊珊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1990.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2005.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
陳昌明、陳玉珍、賴世寶、羅明才說明提案要旨財政部部長莊卓盈回應黨團委員法律提案後藉由委員林大夫等8人提出質詢均經財政部部長莊卓盈等予以說明及答覆決議本日議程尋答至此令則期繼續開會113年5月22日 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2009.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2026.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金融率所屬機關所長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司監管相關機構有關之財團法人臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司臺灣企業交易所股份有限公司臺灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長總經理列席業務報告並備質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2027.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2053.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
經金融監督管理委員會主任委員彭金榮提出報告後．由委員林德武等21人提出質詢。均經金融監督管理委員會主任委員彭金榮等予以答覆。決定一、報告及詢答完畢。二、委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊。請金融監督管理委員會於一週內以書面答覆。委員另要求期限者從其鎖定。三、委員張家俊所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報。並請金融監督管理委員會以書面答覆。宣布完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2057.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2081.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
請問各位委員對上次議事錄有無異議?無異議議事錄確定請議事人宣讀今日議程邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿率所屬單位主管列席業務報告．並備質詢宣傳品好原理我們介紹在場委員與會官員首先我們介紹我們財政委員會兩位資深的這位委員第一位林德福林委員還有吳秉瑞吳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2086.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2101.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
接著我們介紹我們新任的主計總處主計長陳淑姿陳總計長歡迎主計長還有我們徐雅琳徐祖密中規處李義軍理處長公務處徐勇義許處長基金預算處黃淑娟黃處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2114.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2131.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
會計決算處許玉娟許處長綜合統計處蔡玉泰蔡處長國事普查處潘玲欣潘處長主計資訊處副處長吳淑玲吳副處長人事處游金淳游處長秘書處楊滿兒主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2142.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2171.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
政風是陳美倫主任主計處詹英俊主任好今日一程安排行政院主計總處業務報告現在請陳主計長進行業務報告主席各位委員女士及先生大家好 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2172.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2190.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
今天應邀列席貴委員會來報告本總處業務的一個概況自感榮幸本總處負責政府的預算、會計決算、統計調查和主計資訊業務等以下僅就重要的業務辦理的情形來提出報告那請敬請各位委員來指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2191.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2213.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
預算的業務方面第一個根據實施中層計劃預算作業制度和籌編114年中央政府總預算案及附屬單位預算及中計表那我們是為了使計劃預算能夠緊密結合提升政府資源能夠有使用效益所以我們根據落實中層計劃的一個作業制度各主管機關114到117年度中層 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2217.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2233.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
稅出概算額度,行政院在4月30已經核定,由各機關在核定的額度範圍內配合行政院施政主軸,託為安排預算資源。本總署將在兼顧政府財政健全和國家發展的前提下, |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2234.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2248.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
協助各部會按計劃優先順序合理配置運用整理資源並依預算法規定將114年度中央總預算案和附屬單位預算綜計表在本年8月底送大院審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2251.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2279.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
編制完成113年度中央政府總預算和附屬單位預算及中計表送請大院審議113年度中央總預算和附屬單位預算和中計表包括營業和非營業的部分配合政府施政的目標強化淨零轉型階段目標關鍵戰略加強基金財務控管還有提升營運效能等原則來籌編總收入是部分含基金來源總共有6兆8千零74億 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2280.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2307.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
總支出的部分是6兆7,634億,淨利是440億元和繳庫2,570億元在去年8月31,隨同113年,中央政府總預算案送請大院來審議那截至本月5月1號時,大院各委員會已經審查完畢,審查結果將交由朝野黨團協商我們期盼大院能儘速完成審議,以立個基金業務的一個推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2310.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2330.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
編制完成113年中央政府總預算追加預算案．送請大院來審議為有效減緩國際燃料飆漲導致電價大幅上漲照顧民生穩定物價支持弱勢及兼顧產業競爭力臺灣電力有限公司承擔政策任務以低於用電成本計收電費 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2332.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2356.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
公司本年度仍持續吸收燃料成本導致虧損為支持維繫該公司正常營運使其繼續能夠穩定供電的一個使命經依預算法規定編制113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案在5月2號送請大院來審議那整個追加預算案的部分呢我們雖然先行舉借1000億元來舉債但是我們112年總決算經審定 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2362.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2367.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
審計部審定後將以稅計剩餘來支應。會計決算的業務是編制完成112年度中央政府總決算及附屬單位決算和中計表 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2375.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2395.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
一百二十二月中央總決算副主單位決算中計表營業和穩營業部分依經決算法的規定會邊完成提經行政院會審議通過本年四月三十送監察院其中總稅入決算兩兆九千零七十四億元稅出決算兩兆六千兩百八十四億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2396.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2400.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
稅率稅出相抵剩餘2790億那扣除債務成本1260億以後收支剩餘1530億復讀單位決算收入是7兆1858億元總支出是7兆177億元淨利1680億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2416.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2439.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
深化政府內部控制的監督機制為強化機關能夠自主管理根據輔導行政院所屬各機關學校每年簽署內部控制的聲明書協助機關來充實內部集合人員相關智能增進集合的效率深化內部控制的監督作業提升施政的效能順利達成施政目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2440.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2464.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第三項統計調查的業務 第一個我們是辦理國民所得的統計本年4月30發佈最新國民所得統計113年第1季經濟成長率概括是6.51 主要是人工智慧還有新興科技應用需求揚升以及來台旅客持續擴增 商品和服務輸出成長10.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2466.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2495.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
純潔假期推升零售餐飲航空旅遊等國內外消費持續成長加上房市交易升溫帶動居家用品的一個消費和股市一個熱度的一個延續所以民間消費成長4.14那還有運輸工具這些銀上工程和智慧財產投資的增加雖然在機械設備投資方面有緊縮但是我們這個部分經濟成長還是有看好 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2495.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2497.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
展望113年,標普全國5月預測全球經濟成長2.7%與112年持平,國際貿易基金也預測113年的貿易量由113年度成長0.3%回升至3% |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2514.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2534.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
全球中端一個商品消費也是直接回升加上人工智慧和高效能運算的新興科技應用商機持續擴展出口動能可能回升內需方面的廠商為維持技術領先優勢因應數位以淨零轉型然後持續投入研發和製造成本以及運輸業者為 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2535.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2537.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
本年2月我們預測國內經濟成長是3.43那5月底我們會依照最新的一個情勢來做更新的一個預測 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2564.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2583.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那在下面有近年經濟成長的一個概況表請各位來參閱那我們這第二個是辦理物價的統計那總處按月根據實際實際查價的一個結果編制各種物價指數一到四月消費者物價指數較112年同期漲2.24那食物類是漲3.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2589.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2609.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
主要是外食、水果、肉類和價格仍高,蔬菜和蛋類價格下跌,抵銷部分的一個漲幅,服務類價格上漲,因全數最大的房屋延續緩漲,加上醫療院所調升掛號費,跨境旅遊的需求與服務費用的價格也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2610.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2633.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
有推升所以如果我們扣除蔬果和能源核心CPI是上漲2.12那從購買頻度別來觀賞每個月至少購買一次的部分比去年一直失業比去年漲3.23那明顯高於整體CPI是民眾對物價所以民眾對物價感受會比較深 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2634.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2644.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
生產者物價指數PPI的部分是一至四月是上漲0.49那主要是因為新台幣對美元貶值3.91所以新台幣計價的一個電子零組件和電腦這些等價格上漲加上電價的一個調漲所以我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2654.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2675.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
但是中油它有調降,受於電業用戶的天然氣價格和食品、飾品這些價格下跌,抵銷部分的一個帳戶那國內物價變動的概況,相互表請參閱那再來就是我們有辦理社會保障支出的一個統計那這個我們總處群立在去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2678.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2691.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
編佈111年度的社會保障支出呈現政府提供全民享有健康和最低生活保障支出的一個配置的樣貌111年社會保障支出有2,342億元佔GDP的11.2平均每一個人是10.9萬元那比111 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2699.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2721.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
一百一十年增加一千一百八十一億元或增加4.9那因為政府疫苗採購和接種相關費用的增加健保幾戶的成長與有相關津貼和救血補助提高還有退休幾戶勤勞人員增加和長照服務能量提升所以會整個一個大量的增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2723.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2736.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
社會局各類風險或負擔之保障功能觀察111年度如果用於高齡者有1兆1357億元占45.4然後用於保障疾病和健康功能占36.4以111 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2739.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2740.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
因疫情相關生活補貼減少,所以減少28.8% |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2769.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2772.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
各相關的一個支出的一個詳細的數據請參照表示和表5 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2777.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2802.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那再來就是辦理人力第4個辦理人力供需各樣抽樣調查我們為了掌握就業失業薪資和人力需求我們按月辦理人力資源調查和受雇員工薪資調查然後定期提供最新勞動市場供需的一個資訊按年辦理補充性專案調查收集勞動力的一個運用移轉和就業失業的概況員工勞工報酬條件情形所謂空缺狀況和資訊應用相關公務大數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2808.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2824.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
去編算國人赴海外工作人數統計和薪資中位數的一個統計呈現不同年齡和教育程度等特別特徵別詳細分布的一個狀況來充實就業案薪資一個統計的內涵那113年4月就業人數是1157.9萬人比112年增加7.3萬4月人數呢由40.3萬人減 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2833.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2838.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
-1.4萬人 失業率3.36 年降0.14% 四周失業率3.38 年降0.19% 勞動市場情況整個穩定一到三月的工業和服務業全體受惠員工每年經常薪資46,030 比112年同期增加2.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2855.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2862.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
總薪資也增加3.24,剔除物價因素之後經常薪資減少0.09,實質總薪資增加0.88百分比各項重要指標請參閱表6 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2872.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2884.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那辦理基本國事調查建立國家基本形式發揮統計資源的一個功能呢統計法規定我們有完成110年工業和服務業普查的一個總報告現在正在編 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2887.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2911.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
業別和縣市別的一個報告規劃114年我們要辦農林漁牧業普查一個構想案方案運用相關的公務到數據和機器學習技術我們製造模型編制縣市別常住人口的一個統計那第6個我們也辦理家庭收支的一個統計家庭收支的概況總處辦理年家庭收支調查實地訪問和運用 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2913.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2941.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
相關部會的公務登記的大數據資料編制我國家庭收支統計調查結果然後提供各項改善國民生活案推行社會福利的一個餐具那社會救助法最低生活費那稅者權利保護法基本生活費等的訂定所以每戶可支配所得可以分無等分來關那111年最高20%的家庭和最低20%家庭所得差距是6.15倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2942.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2967.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
以110年度相當那近10年來均在6.05和6.15倍之間那90年呢他是6.3998年是6.34那100年是6.17那由於以戶為單位來衡量家庭所得容易受到戶內人數消長的影響所以如果以每個人來觀察的話可知倍所得近10年介於3.89倍和4.08倍那111年是3.93倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2972.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2992.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
主計資訊業務部分第4個就是辦理中央和地方相關預算會計資訊系統的業務我們為了中央和地方政府各機關能夠順利辦理預算的編制預算的執行會計的處理決算編制和會編等業務提升主計資訊的整合應用效益我們辦理中央政府稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2993.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2997.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我們也辦理統計普查案資料倉儲等開放作業為提升統計普查作業效率和資料品質配合國事普查、按月薪資調查和人力資源調查等期程 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3019.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3038.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
辦理普查母體地址的整編．普查資料的檢務．普查結果表的編制．網路填報等系統的資訊作業．另外我們也建立建制主計資訊倉儲系統．落實資料盤點和分級．建構資料加密．全線控管及存 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3038.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3044.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
取繪跡及記錄機制以推動資料治理並確保機敏資料的安全本總處的開放預算、決算、統計等資料集總共達1896項上線後總達有238萬餘人去瀏覽有16萬餘人次下載 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3062.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3084.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
第5個：立法院第11屆第1會期第三次貴委員會的一個會議主辦事項的處理本會期貴委員會第三次全體委員會議委員就本總處業務報告所提質詢需以會後答覆者有6項我們均以答覆貴委員會相關委員在案 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3085.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3101.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
竭予以上本總處近期工作推展的情形,今後將持續精進主計業務．換會主計資源施政決策的功能．協助推動各項的政務．敬請各位委員女士先生鼎力支持．祝大家健康快樂,萬事如意,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3102.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3123.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
好,謝謝主計長的詳細報告現在我們開始詢答先做以下宣告每位初期委員發言時間為8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘每位列席委員發言時間為5分鐘今日上午10點30分截止發言登記現在依照登記順序請登記第一位的林德福委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3136.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3137.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
主席陳主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3150.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3167.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我想國發會將發布4月緊急的燈號那預期將會連市率而且因為第一季整個出口表現優於預期媒體報導主計總處可望上修今年的整個經濟成長力到3.5%以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3171.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3195.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那主計長租錢主計長5月初說今年以來整個出口的單價出口量雙雙成長那代表貿易條件並未惡化對未來整個景氣謹慎樂觀那我請問你怎麼看今年第二季以後整個國內與國外的景氣狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3199.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3225.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我們今年初估是3.43但是第一季呈現的結果就是高達6.51所以如果我們根據這以上的一個條件來做其他都條件都不動來正調整大概是會有新聞上面所報導的就會超過3.5那你會認為第二季以後會變得更好或者是會不會有什麼其他變化會變得更快反轉等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3227.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3255.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
因為本身我們情況是持續看好那你認為未來就是第三季第四季都會第二季以後都看好原則上因為當然第一季是比較表現很突出但是我覺得我們初估是三點如果說是以三點五以上那你認為會不會持續再好還是會不會有停頓或者是往下走 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3255.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3281.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
編制上應該是維持3點多這個狀況那但是因為我們大概在5月30號我們會有一個初步的小組會在做整個人一個預測那這預測的一個情形我們也會對外面來公布就是說整個預測的情形那因為我們統計法施行細則有規範就是說在預測前我們各項數字我們大概不能對外透露所以這個部分呢我們原則上大概會 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3282.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3303.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
等到明天的一個出估的會議之後有應該要發布的訊息我們就會對外來做發布以上說明那個主計長有媒體報導國外會設定的目標和主計總處今年二月的預測數3.43%相差無幾那上月底由於第一季GDP |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3305.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3321.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
蓋孤優於預期經濟成長預測調升3.57%雖然是調升但並不代表情勢大而且在去年整個同期的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3322.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3322.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
李卓人議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3339.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3361.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
因為我們本來就是說 如果以第一季6.51的各項數據去推算它至少一定是3.57啦 其他維持不變這樣子因為我知道去年是有一些狀況是不好 所以是比較低所以說未來勒 你未來是看好還是走平還是一樣能夠維持至少 我的看法是至少3.5啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3362.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3385.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
就是最少最底線就是3.57%是不是這個數字齁還是要等到明天齁我們退估小組的一個會議之後我們再對外來做公布詳細的公布那個主計長我再請教齁主計總處二月底曾經上調今年的整個消費者物價指數CPI年增率到1.85%但當時還沒有納入電價的調漲喔因為四月份喔電價調漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3392.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3413.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
的因素再加上整個服務服務類的物價有僵固性外食會和房租可以說這個漲勢都沒有停過所以說整體國內的整個物價上漲的壓力依舊是存在那主計長大多數人一日三餐 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3415.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3415.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3440.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3451.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
目前穩定物價小組的機制在貧富差距越來越大的社會形態下請問你認為運作的機制足夠符合多數民意的期待嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3453.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3461.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
原則上因為物價的一個上漲有趨緩有趨緩喔那現在如果說是看就是我本來是預估1.851.85但是問題就是說因為電價的調漲那電價的調漲他一整年影響的一個如果是 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3473.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3477.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
會有影響但是問題是說如果是這樣的話應該是由1.85調升到2.03影響應該會調升到2.03初估 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3494.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3518.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
主顧應該是這樣子一個做調整那這個部分呢因為有時候為什麼會覺得物價指數他會感受到很深因為我們是其實整個是368項來做物價這整個一個做調查但是有的是經常性在買的他感受就比較深有的是他不是很經常性在買的他感受就沒有那麼深像我們譬如說電視機他調降8點多但是沒有感覺因為他很久才會買一次所以這就沒有感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3523.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3551.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
據瞭解行政院穩定物價小組關注了17項重要的民生物價互成長0.16%主要是因為雞蛋這個跌價跌幅22.29%是重要民生物價4年來首次互成長的主因那請問主計長民生物價的漲跌消費市場是不是也應該要如實的反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3553.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3582.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
應該要不要其實我們每次都有針對17項的一個中華民生物價做調查不是調查而已啦是是是那你你漲的時候你漲下跌的時候是不是也應該要下跌要如實的反應那其實物價穩定小組他都有針對這個來做一個反應譬如說有的譬如說想想他原來譬如說我可能價格維持然後那個量減少那這個部分的我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3582.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3606.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
主計長講一些空話都沒有用實際上你物價上漲了那你當然他這個很多這個一些消費市場你像那個我就舉早餐店好了對不對這個其實吼但價回跌但是看不到外食族消費價格有反應啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3607.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3632.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
一顆蛋你在這個買一個不管你任何什麼漢堡什麼的話他還是最少15塊錢啊你蛋價跌他有沒有跌一樣沒有跌啊對不對主計長因為蛋價在市場供過於求的狀況下各地的蛋商面臨囤蛋啊的壓力使得蛋價確定有再降價的可能但是有民眾發現早餐店啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3632.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3649.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
加一顆蛋最少是15塊所以說這個讓這些消費者感到不滿就問早餐店為什麼把人民啊好像當盤子一樣那我請問主計長你認為外食族僵固化是不是必然的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3651.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3673.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
因為有時候是這樣子啊就是說你上漲下去要調漲下來這一點是漲上去很快啦調下來很難啦所以說齁你認為需不需要較為有效的方法或管道能夠打破這些僵固性必然的現象來回歸消費這個正常供需的價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3674.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3701.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我們這個會提供給相關單位來做參考然後請他們來演繹那你要是說真的都找不到的話那只有好像用抵制的方式讓消費者才能夠讓這些價格回歸合理化對不對因為齁一般啦外食族他們現在感受的就你只要漲上去他就下不來了啦大家很清楚你齁過去可能你買一個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3704.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3705.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3724.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3744.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
賬戶都處在2%左右偏高水準今年3月年增率2.24%的漲幅連3個月擴大更是一年以來房租漲得最高的媒體報導主計總處官員分析通膨以及升息等因素是房租漲價居高的關鍵請問主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3746.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3763.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
就國內目前整個市場的狀況你認為已經調漲價格的房屋的租金降租是不是也有僵固性你認為會不會上去會不會下來目前的趨勢是反漲房租是反漲的趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3767.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3779.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
主席長因為根據房仲業者的統計今年首季全台預售屋總銷售金額突破5000億大關創下歷史的新高征服高達124.8% |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3783.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3809.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那房市歷經一連串打草房的政策．以及央行連升息的影響下．房價依舊持續的上揚．不少人等不到房價下跌．來加緊腳步購屋．也推升了整體交易量能．尤其是新浪市場買機非常的驚人．面對萬物起漲唯獨只有薪水不漲那 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3812.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3817.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
買房男阿現在連租屋都快變成男上加男我請問主計長你認為民眾對政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3821.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3847.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
又能夠有什麼樣的一個期待?你認為呢?事實上我們在社會住宅或者是說在租金的一個補貼方面各部會也有提供很多的社會住宅很多而且過去講20萬戶實際上落差很大反不及急很多年輕人真的他們一出了社會他們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3848.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3866.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
沒有辦法就是立足就是我所賺的錢可能護了房租以後延伸委會都有困難啦我相信主計總處你們跟政府各單位平行的單位要好好的去探討研究看怎麼來解決這些問題啦好不好謝謝好謝謝林德夫委員的諮詢緊接著我們請吳秉瑞委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3882.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3883.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
主席麻煩請陳主計長有請主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3889.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3897.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
財政部編列的稅科收入相當高的比例高過後來都是低於後來的實增數後來的實際收到的數目比他的稅務的預算編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3915.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3915.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3932.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3949.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
這個部分據我了解因為財政部他在估算的時候他有一個估算的一個小組然後他也透過各種精算的一個辦法來做一個推估做一個推估那事實上他111跟112他增加了將近4000億 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3951.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3951.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
李卓人議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3970.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3973.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
主理長我跟你說明我在這邊很了解很久了所以我很了解他們的心態他們稍微編的保守達成率都超過百分之百 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3989.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4010.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
是因為這樣的心態結果因為這樣的編列過於保守使得差距過大的時候會衍生非常多的流弊第一個就有了利用這個資訊的落差在講什麼還稅於民啊用一些錯誤的概念什麼超增啊這都是錯誤的概念啊我希望以後不要聽到這樣的概念不要聽到這樣的錯誤的用法 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4011.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4030.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
任何一塊錢的稅因為中華民國是租稅法定主義他收每一塊錢的稅都必須有法律的依據所以沒有超增問題只有預算時增數大於預算數的問題因為預算是一個估計那你把它估得保守的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4031.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4059.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
自然就造成了你的時收數會高於預算數那有人利用這個名詞的字換什麼超增啊就要你還稅於民他要還稅的對象也不是真正繳稅的人所以他都是用一些錯誤的東西在裡面搞其實那個歷史那個原因是很很久以前而且很複雜啦所以是希望你在編列預算的時候要協助財政部不能讓他過於保守坦白講如果今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4060.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4073.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
收到的稅率是預算出的98%、99%大家也是很滿意啊哪有每一年都一定要百分之一百多一百一十幾這樣子的數目所以這一點是希望能夠努力的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4074.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4095.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
第二 很多的考驗很大像現在在野黨因為他們利用國會多數加上民眾黨加在一起就變成一個多數的狀況他給你出很多招我舉一個例子財政收支發文法現在已經送到本委員會在進行審查了 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4097.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4124.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那就現在的版本統計有的要把中央政府裡面的五千億六千億拿過去地方政府最少的也有兩三千億那如果這個版本被通過你有什麼打算你的中央政府的現在的稅出一年今年如果今年對我來講是兩兆八千億一口氣把你砍了六千億你會剩下兩兆兩千億那你要怎麼因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4126.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4149.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
是當然因為財政收支發分法的一個修正是財政部主導那第二個這涉及到的層面很複雜但是如果以各縣市來講他都希望能夠財政自主然後財政自主能夠有所提升如果以前我以台南市政府的立場我都是希望說我能夠分配到更多的財政收支發分的一個財源 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4149.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4158.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
你講的這個是水平分配的部分我現在是要跟你談垂直分配的部分他從中央政府花了6000億你中央政府如果支應你中央政府不會沒有辦法支應這個財政的這個窟窿嗎因為資源是有限的啊又不是無限的 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4175.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4202.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
所以我們財政收支劃分法因為涉及到各縣市要去徵這個財源的部分所以它本身是非常的複雜那但是我們如果這財政收支劃分法當初沒有修正我們在中央的部分呢我們大部分會利用所謂統統分配稅的一個劃分之外呢那我們也會利用一般性的補助一般性的補助來做調劑一個營需你講的這個前面都講過財政部也講過我現在是問你因為他們現在國會多數喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4208.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4222.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
昨天你有看到立法院的院會嗎?他們要硬幹什麼東西都可以做啊那我說萬一發生這樣的狀況你要如何因應我不是在跟你討論財政收支劃分法的這個原理這個大家都知道嘛在這邊那麼久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4222.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4247.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
是那如果說我們真的減少將近6000億的一個裁員的話那將來那將來第一個我們在中央我們沒有調劑營需的一個能力因為為什麼那第二個我們減少的裁員的部分呢我們勢必也必須要減少一般性補助或包括計劃型補助相對對縣市的一個補助因為不然的話你連儲備預算這方面都會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4248.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4248.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
是這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4276.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4300.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
好 這個事情我是要先提醒你 你要預先想 是再來 現在有號稱乾坑法案 譬如說環島高速鐵路建設特別條例 花東快速公路建設特別條例 國道6號東沿花蓮建設特別條例據交通部的統計 這三個案如果通過要支應的預算是兩兆元 你有這個錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4302.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4306.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
財政是數證之母他用法律給你規定要2兆元你有辦法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4308.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4334.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
其實跟委員報告就是說我們原則上我們一般重大建設計畫原則上大概都是要先做可行性的評估各種效益的一個評估那除此之外呢我們也會要提到國發會來做一個審議啦那審定之後才來做決定說要不要去做興建那這個案子金額大的部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4334.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4362.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
如果說這個建設有它的必要經過審查那到底是要怎麼籌措財源也必須要去共同去研商啦也並不是說每個案子我都跟他抵觸而不是但是我們就是說看他的需要但是是要由各部會來研提計畫然後送國發會來審議然後再做那個那整個也必須要做整體財源的一個分配因為我的財源大部分如果以114年初步提 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4363.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4388.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
你認知的都是應該這樣做但是本院現在是講力量不講道理的地方啊你跟他講道理他用力量跟你表決你要怎麼樣我是問你這個問題啊我不是問你說到底應該要怎麼做我也知道這不合理啊沒有經過環境影響評估也沒有經過交通部的這個規劃什麼東西都沒有都沒有調查他就是要跟你立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4389.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4399.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
不是只有這個還沒有立法完成的捏已經要現在再二讀就要審議的原住民保留地禁法補償條例這有非常多錢啊那你要怎麼因應啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4403.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4431.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
按預算程序它一定的財源就一定所以我一般我就說你如果說我稅低估的部分那我在支出方面我就要排擠我就要排列優先順序哪些要列我優先所以在資源的分配上它一定是要排列優先順序但是如果說你這法定了那就會排擠其他很多重大的一個建設那所以這個部分我們也必須要審慎來討論就是說這個案子它的可行性如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4433.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4453.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
對那聽起來就是也不知道怎麼無法因應嘛他硬要錢啊那你不給第一個講法說你欺負花蓮人啊花蓮人的建設東部難道不重要嗎那第二個講法就是你瞧不起原住民嗎建法補償啊這原住民該要照顧的啊都會扣上這種帽子 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4456.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4482.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
本席的小時候我出生地是臺東臺東能建設我當然很高興但是要量力而為那如果一個立委的選區花蓮他就可以要到兩兆的建設經費那我新莊就不是人嗎郭國文他們台南就不是人嗎那每一個立委選區都要兩兆那這樣全部的73個區域立委多少錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4485.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4512.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那有什麼辦法可以支應不然就印錢喔讓全國都是貨幣貶值啊所以這個事情即將要到了行政院要有統一的思考因為行政院所有花錢的支出都在經過你的手啦是所以你應該要很認真的跟這件事情跟院的一層喔要好好的來商討這個事情要如何準備好不好加油啊我們會願意是 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4514.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4515.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
謝謝吳秉瑞委員的諮詢下一位請郭國文委員謝謝主席 有請主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4543.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4567.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
主計長你好很開心在這邊遇見你我們算是老朋友了那我有幾個問題想要就教於您我想你現在擔任的這個主計長的角色當中非常的關鍵也就是說你要掌握住明年的預算而明年的預算如何落實賴總統的這個政見在預算編列當中就要有所考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4568.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4592.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
有些政見內容是屬於蔡英文總統政策的延續性像長照3.0或者社會住宅2.0還有一些屬於世代總統的新興的政見也要有新興的計畫來進行各部會的部分你是不是已經有所掌握明年的這些相關的政見的落實的可能性你內心有沒有譜了 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4595.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4595.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4604.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4604.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
藍總統政見落實? |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4635.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4642.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
如果假設這個法還沒有通過之前呢你是不是已經有所掌握了畢竟還沒有發生嘛你趁還沒有發生之前趕快處理嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4644.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4670.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這個部分對於賴總統的一個政見的部分呢那各部會都已經有提出各項的一個方案那這個方案的部分那我們初估我們在4月底我們也分給各部會有一相關的一個金額額度然後請他們優先在這額度裡面去做調整資應那再來如果說我也就是說賴總統的政見的需求的預算已經有請他們調整資應對所以該調整的該調整該資應的資應 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4672.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4699.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那錢的這個空間有沒有比稍微要增加多少特別是哪個部分能不能透露一下需要花比較多錢的部分因為資源的一個分配呢它必須有它的一個優先順序那當然六大的一個政見裡面它大部分很多都很重要但是問題還是有優先順序所以現在原則上大部分初估的一個金額是照以去年的一個額度像我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4700.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4729.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
公共建設計畫的部分原則上依照去年的額度先河給他但是公共建設計畫很多的一個計畫是今年到了付款的高峰期那付款的高峰期那你很多就必須要支付所以你這個部分公共建設計畫到底他支付的部分我們必須要去細算所以我現在我也沒辦法告訴你說大概他會提高多少但是我們要必須就是說針對各項必須支付的要優先之應的來排列優先順序 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4729.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4753.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
你現在討論的你講的都是原則你都沒有透露任何內容我就問你說你知道透露內容都不行不是因為原則上內容就是跟各位就政見上你認為就優先順序帶總統優先順序當中最重要是哪一個嗎但是現在基本額度給他的就是以去年的額度為主還是去年的額度為基準來做調整可是那新的政見落實要怎麼辦呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4753.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4753.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
你現在講都是原則啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4769.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4798.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
但是我剛剛覺得吳秉樂委員提醒的那一點真的非常重要如果財法法現在如果通過的話我剛剛聽到你的講法是說你現在呢有可能就是在計劃型補助跟一般性的補助來做一個調整嘛因為計劃型跟一般性的補助的話從112年度的話大概8682億啦在今年的話應該會超過9000億這兩年我評估起來地方政府大概短差大概500億啦我是認為地方政府的部分短差500億以上你要優先解決啦優先解決這是真的要思考不然的話他們不是舉債不然就賣土地啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4799.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4824.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
這對社會問題都造成一些負面的影響這個部分我建議這樣子如果說在野黨要求這個的話他們要解決地方問題的話應該先把這個問題先處理好但是第二個部分呢如果他們過度調高的話你現在手頭上可以做調整的是一般性的補助有2121億各部分的補助有2300億但手頭上大概你用計畫型跟一般型大概4500億也就是說如果他拿到太多的統籌分配卡你就會用4500億來做彈性的處理嘛對不對你還是有辦法嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4828.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4851.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
因為一般性補助呢就是去調劑縣市的營需嘛那當然因為有一些縣市它實在是稅數稅數差的很大你又限原則要去填補那第二個呢計劃型補助的部分因為計劃型每個計劃它補助的比例不一定反正你就是有招就是了它如果統籌會不會給你拿比較多你一般的跟計劃型的你就要給它少一點嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4852.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4874.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
關於中央政府怎麼運作你來總統的政見如何落實他用另外一種方式來跟你杯葛把你整個預算稍微幫你處理掉那你怎麼玩亂不下去嘛 對不對所以你還是得因應這個問題嘛那第二個部分呢我是認為不是中央跟地方因為中央橫向的部分還是有負跟貧啦現實上貧負差距還是非常的大我倒是覺得台灣現在的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4876.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4876.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4901.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4929.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
如果說現階段的話南北平衡有問題現在嚴格來說北高平衡相對沒有問題反而是北南南北出現很大問題這一點我要請主計長你要特別注意一下這個部份的這個交通預算的部份要去怎麼配置的部份應該跟相關的單位弄清楚前端計畫接下來五期沒有的時候後面的公共預算怎麼編這些呢後來呢玩到的後來呢沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4930.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4933.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
沒有辦法取得前瞻計畫你要怎麼處理 主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4935.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4962.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
像一般前瞻計畫因為到後面只剩下703億再來就沒有那個但是如果說等於本來放在前瞻計畫的部分將來勢必要回歸啦回歸到一般的預算公務預算上面去那所以是不是能夠容納這麼大一個那個額度的一個深這個我們就必須要資源的分配的部分就要很大的一個我就是要請你想辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4963.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4963.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4980.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5005.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我就再救教你一個問題好了因為本席台南你也是從台南出生嘛台南的部分呢基本上這一個內部還有一個城鄉差距的問題農村人口外移以空污率來計算的話越偏鄉是越嚴重但是這個問題呢在農業部的部分呢他需要透過農債基金可是農債基金到今年2月為止剩下不到500億他原來是1500億要推動第四期的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5006.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5030.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
過去農業部的部分有農民的福利農業的這個政策的調整差別現在農村的一個重造農村的重造農災基金就非常的關鍵現在到農村的這個重化農村如果沒有重化的話那人口一定會勢必再流失也就這個部分能不能請主計長把這個資金的這個規模一來把它先填補二來把它提高的可能性有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5032.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5041.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
融債基金的部分本來就是說一般我們是坦白說我們沒有閒錢去放在那裡但是如果他現在能夠支應將來我們是他實際的一個財務狀況來去做撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5046.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5049.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
總不如等到見底吧 主席長你知道嗎 一般的水位很重要維持 不然我們勞保財務基金為什麼一直要維持900億的原因在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5072.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5073.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
總體來說為什麼我特別你總體討論這個應該優先考量我本期提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5091.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5116.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
整個農委會提升為農業部之後我去換算整個預算結構52%加29%加一般的支出跟一個義務型的支出加起來就超過八成他真的能夠用在新興計畫大概不到兩成升格為一千五百多億到一千六百多億其實微乎其微講白一點關鍵還是在預算所以如何要改造我是覺得這個部分很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5117.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5133.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
最後一個部分剛剛有幾位委員有提到確實我們經濟成長率第一季的時候超乎預期原來是3.43現在變6.51這是好現象但是您的報告書當中我也特別看到你有提到說那個總薪資率有提升但是一般我們在看的都是看實質 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5134.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5140.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
經常性薪資其實經常性薪資是減少的也就是說我們看到的經濟成長就一直攀升我們看到物價一直高最近CPI雖然有盪下來可是對壽星階級來說老實講內心的壓力非常的沉痛為什麼整體經濟成長的時候我們沒有被分享到有相關的數字以後有機會我會給你但是我只是做一個最後一個建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5157.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5185.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
審計部這個部分我有要求他7月的時候提出一個專題低薪改變的一個專案報告你有沒有可能針對這個問題來提出一個報告出來因為其實齁我們不看經常性薪資因為一般公司如果有賺錢他在弘麗啊在那個不是看這個問題我是不是說整體低薪的報告我不要跟你辯論這個啦我應該跟你辯論統計數字哪一個比較重要重點是你有沒有提出一個報告站在一個主計處的一個高位當中相關的預算的配置在你身上你有沒有可能提出一個報告來看到這個問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5186.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5187.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
主席各位列席官員大家早 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5216.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5239.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
主席我想請主計總處陳淑姿來主計長請主計長恭喜喔是謝謝你恭喜恭喜那我想主計長先前也擔任過台南市的主計長那 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5243.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5247.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
對這個業務都非常熟悉來面對預算的編審跟執行監督還有各項數據統計應該會更加的謹慎也會呈現出最真實的數據給我們人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5254.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5271.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
一百一十二年度中央政府總預算實際執行結果稅出稅入剩餘新台幣兩千七百九十億那扣除債務還本一千兩百六十億還有上有這個收支剩餘一千五百三十億這是連續七年來總決算 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5274.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5295.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
稅出稅入都有剩餘那主席長有錢是好事啦但是為什麼這計出來錢要拿去還債就是還債嘛但是問題是說為什麼都會剩餘這麼多是不是一開始一開始在編列的時候就不夠精確你可以幫我們說明一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5297.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5324.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
它主要是因為它稅入有超收啦稅入有超收這個部分那這個稅入超收其實我們一百一十一和一百一十二一百三一百一十三都有做調整有調整增略了將近也是將近四千億但是實際執行的結果它還是稅收的一個情況還是很好所以這個部分就會有一個就是每年都超增了連續三年超增了1.29兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5327.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5331.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
目前有幾項國內長期還有重大的議題包括屏幕差距、薪資、租屋補貼、長照、地方建設等等從4月份開始各機關政府開始編列明年度的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5352.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5352.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5372.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5379.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
臺灣30年前的0.47到110年的0.60財富分配不均的情況持續擴大那主計處前一陣子的這個國富統計報告也顯示說最富跟最窮的家庭資產規模相差66.9倍等於是70倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5402.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5402.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
財政委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5413.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5439.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那把財富重新分配給社會上的弱勢族群用很多種方法比如說租屋補貼育兒津貼中低收入戶的補貼或者是長照的支出但是我認為說我們臺灣的一個資本機制不夠也不夠完整那所以比如說以上市櫃這些高階主管跟基層的一個倍數持續擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5440.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5464.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
來做一個舉例目前能無法避免所以我想要請教主計長臺灣的貧富差距持續擴大我們要怎麼做難道說只能放任這樣的情況一直在一直在擴張然後讓有錢的人持續透過這些炒房啊炒會啊這樣子的方式然後把這些貧富差距拉得更開嗎還有沒有什麼其他的辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5466.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5486.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
事實上我們提出這個所謂的那個家庭財務的一個所的報告那這個裡面呢因為當初30年前他是用國庫調查那現在我們是利用那個一些一個我們現在的一個家庭收支的一個調查然後連同大數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5487.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5487.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
李慧琼議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5509.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5530.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
一百一十三年那我們在社會福利相關的一個支出方面就達到七千八百九十七億元所以等於是說我們可能要透過很多的一個對於比較中低收入戶的一個家庭的一個補助那一轉性的收入來改變來改變他當中的一個這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5532.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5537.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
各家庭和五分位的一個差距是6.05到6.15那所以我們大部分如果透過一些我們社會福利相關的措施就能夠降低這些的一個差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5560.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5579.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那事實上如果說以每個人薪資的所得的一個差距其實是3.93那我們再透過這一個各方面的一個努力大部分也是都會大力降低所以我們當然是希望能夠貧富差距能夠逐漸來縮小經過政府的一些的一個措施的一個辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5580.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5599.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
措施要有效因為人民是如果措施無效或者是數據冰冷的數字是民眾無感收入減少然後成本持續提高我最關心的其實就是收入啦現在國人的收入其實M型社會那 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5601.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5621.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
112年全年每人每月總薪資平均是58545但是我們都知道相對於平均數我們這其實沒什麼意義看中位數好了中位數它能呈現出真實的狀況剔除物價的因素全年實質經常性薪資是41334 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5625.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5647.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
年減0.05%是連續三年負成長重點就是收入負成長這是正確的那實際總收入是53,189元年減1.04%也是七年來的負成長首次的負成長那臺灣薪資漲得慢那但是租金房價物價 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5649.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5673.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
這個就不用我來形容了那這是民眾最不滿的部分那我想這部分也是本席最關心的那我想請教就是說受薪組的部分這個收入短掃以及這個物價通膨通膨的這個越來越大那主計長有沒有什麼有效的作為這第一個部分那再來就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5673.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5695 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
租屋補貼通過租屋補貼、社福支出、育兒津貼、中低收入戶的補助、長照支出將財富重新分配到社會上比較弱勢的部分建議在社福制度完善的情況下才會奏效 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5698.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5714.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
租金補貼的部分到現在明明是一個好的政策但是卻一堆人領不到如果主計長還有各位官員你們不相信的話你們去網路上面這些社團或者是租屋網去查看看就知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5715.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5732.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
很多房東就擺明了就是說你不能用租屋補貼不能用租屋補貼反倒是租屋補貼可以租到的房子還要感謝回過頭來要來感謝房東的一個好像一個感謝房東的施捨那個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5734.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5747.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
這應該不是我們在設定政策的一個初衷原本租金可能是一萬二但是因為如果要申請租屋補貼他就用技巧性的把房租調漲變一萬四一萬五 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5750.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5772.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那我想租入市場是這樣子那這個制定政策還有我們要推動這個政策民眾的抱怨只會更多沒有更少不會減少那這樣子的部分代表這個政策還有很多需要檢討的部分那這個可不可以請主計長說明一下有沒有什麼因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5773.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5791.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
因為其實我們這個是提供數據的一個參考然後實際執行的一個相關的部會他跟像措施如果有不完善的需要檢討的部分我們也會轉達請各部會針對這個部分能夠來做一些檢討因為有時候涉及到比較細項的一個執行的細節 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5792.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5815.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
那可能要各部會再深入去了解因為有時候它在規範的時候可能都是規範屬於大的原則在執行細項的時候會遭遇到哪些的困難或者是申請的時候會有什麼哪些的遭遇的阻礙那這個部分呢應該如何來免除那這個部分我們也會轉達給相關的單位然後讓他來做一些的改進的一個措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5816.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5839.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
主委長我在這邊跟主委長提一下因為我們在上一次到臺中市那主委總處這邊還有省紀部都有派員參加一個地方建設的考察那特別是去看了臺中市的捷運南線還有海線的雙軌高架的部分那雙軌高架的部分那它現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5841.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5856.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
現場考察的時候國發會有表示說目前的評估目前的評估只剩下主計總處還沒有審議完成還沒有審議完成這部分我要請主計長因為你剛上任所以這部分我要提醒你說因為台中市是 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5857.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5883.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
目前人口第二多的城市對於不管是捷運南線不管是海線雙軌高架鐵路捷運化的部分都對台中市的整體發展非常的重要也不只是台中因為不管是旅外的這些從北部或高雄來到台中洽工或者在台中工作租屋買房還有這些的部分都會受惠那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5883.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5906.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
既然國發會這一邊他說只剩下主計總處的審議還沒有提出這個評估報告剩下主計處這一邊那主計處可不可以總處這邊可不可以盡速的來完成這個這項事項是跟委員報告還有還有就是要提高補助的能夠支援台中市政府的補助因為我跟你講齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5907.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5934.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
臺中市雖然被政府列為二級的財政是相對比較好但是因為財政相對比較好所以變成說臺中市自籌的部分都要比其他縣市更高這樣子就相對於說好像在懲罰好學生稅收高他的這個臺中市的治理跟這個城市的管理或許是比較好但是問題這樣子他的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5935.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5936.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
賴慧媛委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5966.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5966.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
有請我們的主計處處長陳處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5979.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5981.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
財政委員會財政委員會財政委員會財政委員會財政委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5997.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6026.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
可是看起來就是說央行開著這一台車那你是央行的眼睛可是如果央行沒有有一個很精準的一個眼睛的話那他的勢力如果不夠好的話主計處的勢力那他提供給他的一個數據如果是不夠精準的時候相對的就是說央行在整體的一個貨幣政策他可能會失準 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6027.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6034.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
所以主計長你的主計處非常非常的重要不知道你有沒有同感 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6037.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6061.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
責任很重大那在之前有很多的一個委員一直在告訴你就是說為什麼這個CPI這個通盤這個跟大家就是民眾的一個體感差距那麼大那當然就是說由地方政府呈報上來的給主計處他其實是有落差的那為什麼會有落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6062.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6062.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6078.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6095.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我們已經就是反映就是這個店家要調整了可是4月份的CPI上漲1.95 遠低於3月份那為什麼會有這樣的一個情形不升緩降呢為什麼我想聽聽主計長你對這一個這個店會的一個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6098.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6121.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
因為事實上電費它是4月才調漲才調漲那這一個部分我們4月份公布的是1.95那所以它會反映在5月份的一個CPI那我們整年預估大概是1.85但是整個一個如果影響率應該是一整年會影響大概約0.024左右那這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6126.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6138.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
加上去的話大概會變成如果說4月到8月的一個影響它會變成如果說用1.85這樣來算再加上影響數應該是0.18左右這樣就會變成2.03就是不會維持原來的1.85是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6146.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6172.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那本身這個你說這個CPI是不是真的能夠真實反映大家的一個通膨的壓力那因為整個CPI它的像數360幾像那這個部分如果因為有一些是屬於比較沒有敏感的有一些是比較敏感的所以大家針對敏感的一個項目它就會影響覺得影響很大但事實上有一些其實是它會沒有感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6175.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6175.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
李慧琼議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6192.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6210.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
主計長其實他的一個看法也是一致的那時候他也知道就是說電價可能是會調漲那怎麼樣讓這一個CBI的數據更貼近民眾的感覺我覺得我們如果從中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6210.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6237.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
中央的一個政府是不是可以跟地方縣市政府的統計數據可以就是有一個一致性剛才那個顏委員也講到了他說他臺中基本上他臺中市政府他的一個稅收是比較好的他是好學生那相對的台南市他不是壞學生他是一個窮苦的學生那窮苦的學生他報上去給你的其實我們不見得就是說我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6238.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6238.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6263.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6285.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
不公平的地方可是真正的一個問題我個人倒是有一個看法就是說目前就是有多少人在做這些查房那各地的物價漲幅當然是一定不同那如何以地方政府的一個制度你去做這樣的一個政策因為我一再的強調說你就是央行的眼睛 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6286.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6312.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
你是央行的眼睛這個央行他的政策的一個制定對你提供數據來講的話是非常重要的那如果你的訪查眼是明顯不足的時候那該怎麼辦呢那你沒有辦法做出真實性準確性的時候你的QA QC做出來的都是其實跟民眾的差距都是這麼遠的那你看喔我用一個簡單的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6313.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6339.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我們黃豬這個黃豬大家有很多委員也一直在提這個問題黃價其實一直漲一直漲可是黃豬的這個指數年增率相對的一個平穩我們從這個數字裡頭去看它那為什麼會是呈現這樣的一個狀況因為你們的訪查員你們是調查你是調查黃柯還是那個黃東 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6341.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6361.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
主計長你知道這些黃茶園是調查黃東還是黃客黃客黃東都有沒有只有黃東有而已只有黃東有當然也不是兩個都有啦對不起兩個都有可是問題就是說他其實基本上是失準的為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6362.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6377.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
因為其實現行的一個做法就是黃東提供的一個計算的一個數據還有黃克提供的一個計算的數據其實是有一個落差的我們看到的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6378.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6395.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
主計總處在111年的那個報告指出就是黃豬的一個指數你私有的住宅樣本才一千一千兩百戶那就是社會住宅的樣本有一點四萬戶為什麼會是有這樣的一個差距我跟你講主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6396.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6411.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
最主要就是社會住宅的資料好拿嘛你私有的一個住宅不好拿嘛那你怎麼樣來看就是說現行的一個調查方式沒有辦法反映真實的房租的一個狀況在你的認知裡頭你怎麼看待這個問題呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6413.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6427.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
其實我們一般調查的話如果是在房租調查我們裡面會抽房東四分之一然後房客抽四分之三那一般調查的戶數大概都是有1400戶左右這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6430.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6438.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
這一個部分呢因為如果說你實際訪查的數據有一些會偏低譬如說黃東他會以多報少這樣的一個狀況或者是說沒有辦法真實呈現但是我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6444.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6460.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
主計總處他還會去參考一些大數據相關的一個數據來做一個調整那所以並不是說各縣市調查出來的一個數據我們就直接呈現不是我們還會做一些和專家學者去做一個討論然後把相關的一些數據做調整是這樣子是 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6463.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6477.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
主計長以你在地方的一個主計處的一個工作經驗是不是可以非常明顯的感受出來就是地方政府他其實在處理主計的一個業務量的人力其實是不夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6479.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6508.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
對事實上是這樣子因為統計調查人員的部分呢他是必須要很專業然後有一些必須要有訪問的技巧才能夠真正的訪問一般又有說像家庭收支他涉及到的是一些機密的資料所以他機敏的資料所以你要去問人家你必須要要很好的一個技巧所以他這個統計調查人員都不需要訓練所以他一般平常他都是各縣市我們會有主計處直接直接統計調查人員大概有 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6508.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6508.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
臺南市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6528.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6539.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
因為以台南市它來講它是兼任統計調查員不是它統計調查員是有22個啦那兼任的它大概有40個左右你看那是明顯的不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6542.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6571.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
事實啊,精神調查也40個,然後他還有一些案件按之計酬的,然後本身我們自己主計處的統計人員也會投入人力是這麼少啦,要做的項目這麼多啦,還有就是荒華,荒華事實上就是說黃東的一個調查數,然後還有黃克的一個調查數明顯我跟你講,你進去的數據是不對的,然後是失準的,你出來的答案也是失準的 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6572.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6593.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
所以說你要提供給就是那個央行的時候這樣子就變成非常非常的吃虧了所以我個人持的態度是嚴有頭債有主啦主計處不應該就是因為通貨膨脹而被責罵這個是央行的責任不過我倒是想問主計長你知道那個臺北的蚵仔麵線一萬多 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6597.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6623.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
你一定要去吃啊,你才會知道大碗一碗多少?因為我那天去士林夜市才問過而已啦我跟你講,你不只在夜市吃,你在一般的商店尤其是西門町,你也要去吃這個是非常重要的,應該大碗不會那麼便宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6624.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6642.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
大碗不會那麼便宜所以就是說你要非常深刻的去體察民意然後對這一個物價指數我跟你講台北什麼都貴啊比我們台南真的是差距太多了我想更細緻更貼切真實的一個CPI的一個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6643.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6667.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們把它用其他的一個方式各種的一個方式把它換算出來你才可以有效的協助央行做好最好的一個貨幣的一個政策然後增加統計數字透明度跟真實性我想真實的反映通膨的一個這個跟民間的一個體感這個是我對那個主計總處的一個要求也是一個拜託好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6668.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6669.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
有請陳主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6699.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6722.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
委員好你好早喔是早那我想大概很多委員對你都一定必問的題目啦GDP啊 CPI啊今年的GDP你們大概預估多少台積業說3.2多啦那我看總額大概3.5差不多這個數字是今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6723.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6723.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
本來預測是3.43% |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6753.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6754.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
蔣麗芸議員蔣麗芸議員蔣麗芸議員蔣麗芸議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6779.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6800.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
同樣的會連帶的影響到GDP啊第一個齁因為如果說能不能先回答這問題是定價長對GDP是加還是減你要告訴我這點應該是負面的啦負面的啦因為第一個他會增加成本嘛是那我們看總薪是七年來開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6804.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6815.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
臺灣你會發現到說我們一直講經濟成長法戰度法戰股市又創新高兩萬多點可是造成的是富者越富窮者越窮這個主計長應該都 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6820.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6836.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
應該同意我的說法嗎?報告委員,實質總薪資我是正成長啦,因為我是七萬兩千多嘛那這是經常性的薪資,如果換算那個物價指數的一個調整率之後他是在實質薪資總成長0.88啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6842.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6845.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
主計長淑姿率所屬單位主管列席業務報告：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6871.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6897.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
過去的預算是編給他上一任的部長用的他能不能調整啊我問你可不可以調整我們現在是這樣我們4月你不能調整你告訴我我們4月30我們有發一個函就是給他一個額度但是在什麼額度就是說初步出核的額度然後再來就是說我會請他在6月中旬的時候針對調整的計畫要報上來是這樣子嘿 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6900.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6927.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
現在有幾個部位跟你報上來要調整我們到6月中旬所以都還沒有6月20目前都還沒有對還沒有所以我們也給各黨現在有一個單位叫速發部或者速衛部都可以是他的國外禮位啊3萬了原來編3千7百萬領土不算了齁我們把他立法院砍了6百萬剩3千1百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6929.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6957.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
但是他編的這是出國費用喔國外旅費喔這個呢等下出去2188人次他總共283個人每一個人一年要出差七點七天啦這個唐鳳原部長前部長編的現在的部長啊姓黃是不是他都說他不要出國啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6959.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6968.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
他這個地方在砍請問他可不可以把這個錢挪到其他單位來用你告訴我可不可以主計長這裏的專業有這裏的專業有 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6975.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7000.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
第一個如果說出國計畫它相關的一個同一個工作計畫它是可以做調整但是不同工作計畫是不可以調整的是這樣子來我先跟你講喔預算法63條定很清楚經過立法院如果刪減的話就不得留用所以這裡面有一個矛盾地方在這裡新的部長來了他不認同這一筆的一個出國費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7001.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7016.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
他要把他挪到其他地方來用他覺得他不應該出國這麼多他還看到外界批評很多說這個數位部等於出國部、旅遊部所以他把他他說我沒這麼緊可能砍一半砍三分之一砍三分之二 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7018.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7035.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
好了那問題預算法63條你不能動啊不能留用啊法定在這裡啊主計長你旁邊的給你校長沒用啊這裡法在這裡不能留用你出不了國你不要出國你就乖乖腳褲對吧這樣對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7036.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7055.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
第一個流用的規範他有分第一個用途別不得流用的一個項目我跟妳講預算法六三條三減以後不得流用阿三減以後不得流用一般三減以後他不會用什麼意思就是說你被三減的預算他本來變成3100萬那3100萬的部分呢他是就3100萬去做執行阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7065.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7090.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
這只要花一千萬啦可能啊你知道我意思嗎他還是嫌多現在新的部長就這樣啊不是 他是你三減的這個計劃裡面你在這個計劃依照預算法規定它在整個計劃裡面它是可以整體調整流用的預算法六三條講假的喔不是預算法六三條經過立法院三減不得流用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7091.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7105.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
這很清楚的啊我刪減又不得不得留用啊不是通刪的部分它是依照規定是可以的什麼空單就是如果是屬於通刪通利刪減的部分這不是通刪欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7109.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7123.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
這不是通山你搞清楚這因為那時候不分黨派大家就很討厭唐鳳把這個錢三六百萬啦是這樣子的不是通山啦不是通山OK主計長要進入狀況你不知道嗎這不是通山我告訴你不是通山 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7133.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7146.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
同山是固定多少這是另外再刪的在委員會裡面刪掉的刪600萬不是同山你回去查一下有結果告訴我再來看那個前瞻5期 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7155.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7156.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
原則上應該是八月底啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7176.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7195.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
因為項目原則上其實當初都有定下來啦所以現在大概就是說會針對有一些譬如說要支付的一個項目會不會左政府上來以後來政府上來左政府會不會編一個前瞻奧廷年會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7199.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7213.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
這個部分要探院你的整個政策還沒有聽到我是有聽到這個聲音你們要編一個簽證要聽聽我們希望你帳門管好這個錢不要亂花不用特別預算財政紀律要顧好最後一個問題你第一次來 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7226.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7234.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
這個奇怪的名人有什麼好理這都台南的呢主席的台南的 旁邊底下的台南的 喔 大家很怕你叫我很怕你叫我阿妹的 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7237.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7256.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
來 謝謝委員那你要對我就提供老實提供資料open data其實主計處主計總處很多資料都很寶貴但是你給的資料都不好用Excel資料都不好用open data你知道什麼叫open data你硬卡會主委做過門 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7261.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7277.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
就現在不是不僅僅只有你政府的單位所提供的資料都不能夠解鎖都是這樣給你啊很難用的啦很難用的所以你們不能在這裡公開承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7278.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7296.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們主計總處以後提供的資料給我們委的資料都是可以全面確認解鎖這樣我們找起來就方便了一看 喔 什麼地方限制這個停車場啦什麼地方有 什麼地方有喔 什麼地方浪費不太清楚可不可以來 你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7297.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7325.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那事實上呢我們送立法院提案的一個相關的一個資料庫我們都有依照規定來公開啦在機關的網站裡面那如果說我們要如果要供外界來加值使用我們也是有一些資料有做開放用open data來開放那但是如果說要有一些民眾查詢要這個我們還是要再回去研議評估啦我告訴你一個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7326.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7339.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
在去年的時候朱主席長前任的朱主席長他就同意了他說今年要給我今年要提供給我們的都是可以retrieval就是可以檢索 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7341.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7343.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
主計總處提供的資料都可以全文檢索 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7361.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7361.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
這個留記錄了 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7377.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7394.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
9月底主計總處提供給立委的資料open data都可以retrieval就是可以檢索這個非常重要各位注意看他提供資料都非常寶貴但是不好用那現在9月底以後可以好用謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8071.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8071.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
主席陳主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8095.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8116.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
委員好主計長好我想就是您現在到了新工作應該現在一切都有進入狀況吧正在熟悉當中但是我想說因為你原來也是在這個領域裡面第一個問題想請教一下在 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8118.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8134.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
剛才我們也有很多的委員會關心有關於通膨的問題那我們比較關心的是如果通膨沒有辦法控制的話那麼就會影響我們這個薪資族薪水族他的收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8135.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8163.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那麼在去年的時候呢有一個數字事實上是讓很多人比較觸目驚心的是我們去年的實質的總薪資在出現了7年來首見的負成長就是說我們的經常薪資雖然都有在成長甚至到了今年的第一季因為大家知道今年第一季可能都會有一些這個獎金啊這個年終獎金的入帳 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8164.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8182.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
所以今年第一季來說我們雖然經常性的薪資也是增加的但是非常非常遺憾的是在去年的實質總薪資出現了負成長之後到了今年第一季我們的實質總薪資仍然是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8183.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8203.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
就是增加的比例是一點點但是實質性的經常性薪資還是有減少所以我想請問一下主計長你認為我們現在的實質總薪資沒有辦法有效的提升是不是主要因素就是通膨的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8205.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8228.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
事實上通盤也是一個因素那我也是再跟委員報告一下雖然經常性薪資它是有增加但是轉換那個就是說整個一個物價指數之後它是減少0.09那實質總薪資是72,000多它本身如果再轉換那個物價一個指數的部分就會增加0.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8231.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8252.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
通膨的影響也會有影響通膨的結果就造成雖然薪資增加但事實上是錢變薄了所以雙管齊下我們要提高實質薪資的增加當然最主要還是要控制通膨另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8253.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8253.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8272.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8288.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
所以其實稅收超徵的狀況之下包含主計處尤其這個中央政府在編預算的時候他的餘裕比較多他這個就是不會這麼辛苦啦會事實上是比較happy的啦但是呢我不曉得 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8289.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8311.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
主計長你到了這個主計處之後主計總處之後你會不會這樣幸運啊?如果這個稅收超徵對於主歧視者在編預算的時候當然會比較好編所以我想請問一下以今年來說2023年大概是3800多億的稅收超徵你們預估今年還會不會出現稅收超徵? |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8314.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8334.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
這個我是不敢講但是如果就經濟成長一個態勢所以我們本身希望說我們不要說估計太保守了那這個部分當然因為財政部他整個有一個一個說一個估測的專案小組在做估測那本身也有一個估測的一些的模型在做預測 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8335.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8360.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那我坦白說他111 112到113年總共他稅收調整也調整了將近4000多億進來那這個部分以我來講如果在預算籌編支出其實他報的概算大概你馬上就要編預算了對他大概都會超過3兆左右所以等於說他報的東西多你如果稅收不太保守我要問你的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8362.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8384.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
因為你馬上就要編預算了所以我才問你今年會不會出現稅收超徵今年我是說今年113年度對113年度因為以第一季來講應該是狀況也還不錯啦不錯是怎麼樣就是第一季稅收的一個情況應該是也不錯所以本身 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8386.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8395.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
第一季的稅收會超徵這我也不敢講因為這稅收方面的一個預估是財政部比較專門但是現在問題為什麼問你這個問題因為稅收超徵的關係所以呢我們就提前了提前的追加預算其實這有點不合原來的這個程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8406.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8424.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
因為這應該是要審計部核定之後你才能夠確定你可以去用這個稅收超徵拿來去追加預算所以呢你們現在才是等於說先用舉債的方式等到這個審計部核定之後呢你們再正式的去可以移用這個稅收超徵的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8427.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8428.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
臺電因虧損累累而牽涉到廣大勞工權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8444.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8467.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
也就是那麼勞保基金你們要怎麼樣撥補呢要怎麼樣撥補因為在這個賴總統的就職演說裡面他說只要政府在勞保就不會倒那後來去問了勞動部長用什麼辦法呢你要拿出什麼辦法那麼看起來還是用撥補的方式好那我現在要請教你了那麼在 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8470.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8494.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
今年這個撥補的金額很龐大當然也是因為這個受益於稅收超徵的關係錢比較多所以可以撥補的比較多因為以往大概200億了不起到三四百億好那我想請問一下明年勞保基金大概還要撥補多少這是很廣大的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8496.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8504.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
就是所有勞工朋友非常關係的事情明年要補多少會不會不低於今年的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8506.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8532.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
原則上因為勞保基金在106年度開始他的保險的收入就不足以支付保險的支出但是因為他有一個就是說他投資的一個利得能夠去cover所以他變成說他的數字沒有那麼的龐大就是等於說虧損的數字但是呢還是一樣等於說如果我們勞保的費率沒有調整的話將來 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8533.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8533.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
113年度預算就編了1200億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8556.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8569.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
所以114年度其實我們也有預估說看到底是要把它來再撥補勞保的一個部分有這樣的打算啦但是經了多少我們還是必須要討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8571.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8584.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
明年一定會撥補但是是不是至少按照今年的一個標準這個部分就必須要看財源的狀況來做討論因為我說今年是已經達到1200億我沒有在講那個億後特別預算那1200億所以在明年你們的估計也應該也起碼要到1200億 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8595.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8611.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
因為這金額我還沒有確定我不敢說啦因為等於說我必須還要去細算它的一個需求然後再去確定因為整個財源分配的部分我必須要看我財源獲得是多少然後才能確定說我分配的一個金額是多少是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8613.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8638.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
對這個當然因為你們在編預算之前一定有很多大家都互相拉扯啦對不對各個部會都會來跟你們要錢但是呢我覺得老保基金的這樣的一個年輕的長年的虧損這樣的一個虧損那麼當然是需要就是你不然的話就是在年紀的部分做相關的比如你的保費要提高啊等等之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8639.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8657.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
但是顯然現在我想新政府應該也沒有意思要採取這樣的一個方式那在沒有採取這樣的方式之前呢那麼你的這個撥補的這個額度恐怕就是說因為你我剛給你看過去這幾年你是越來越多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8657.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8680.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
越來越多然後你如果縮減的話呢都會使得這個勞保基金的整個的整個的財務狀況會更為拮据所以我才想說在我們主計處來說如果未來勞動部他所提供的我覺得我是勞動部我一定跟你講說啊你今年撥我1200億啊你明年你不能少啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8681.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8683.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以是不是可以承諾一個是就是至少在這個撥補的金額上不能夠少於今年的水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8695.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8695.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
王室堅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8733.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8733.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
有請主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8741.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8764.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
委員好主計長這個你上任以來你們有報了一條喜訊就是說四月失業率3.36%那麼這是創24年來同月份最低啦你們有說的這樣那你們說的原因就是說這個失業率降低是因為疫情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8765.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8780.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
以後那麼導致我們內需服務業復甦這大概就是你們說的理由原因不過既然你新上來在我們新內閣 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8782.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8807.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那一政府要開始執政大展身手的時候我具體要求你做到齁做到一個很簡單的事情就是忠實呈現提出警訊不要報喜不報憂因為主計處的重要就是在這裡主計處要提出建言提供給內閣他們去 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8812.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8839.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
調節政策來因應時局的變化這樣才對所以你們的忠實呈現非常重要不要動不動就報喜訊那比方說你說是因為疫情結束以後服務業復甦沒錯啊但是相對的相對的我們在製造業 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8841.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8868.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
光是製造業我們比去年同業來講我們失業人數就增加1萬人講的服務業那製造業呢製造業比去年同業就減了1萬人那麼今年年初的總失業人數40萬5千人也比去年底還要高了要多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8869.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8869.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8884.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8884.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我為什麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8914.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8937.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我們要隨時提出警訊的原因就是說你比方說我們沾沾自喜說好像我們失業率降了可是你相較於其他國家我就講美國好了美國疫情期間平均失業率是5.7%那人家他疫情之後他降了2.1%他來到3.6%南韓啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8944.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8949.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我們的鄰居3.5%降到2.7他也減了0.8那香港更是讓我們意外5.1%減到2.9%新加坡也是3.5%減到2.7%平均都還減0.8減2.2 2.1那這樣我們降個0.3%那有什麼好 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8973.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8973.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
提出警訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8991.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8991.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
謝謝委員的指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9012.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9022.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
主席長有幾個我倒是覺得有隱憂的地方也就是說我們這是因為產業業務緊縮的關係這種結構性失業結構性失業的人數我們再度超過10萬人所以你認為這原因是什麼是 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9036.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9060.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
如何來避免我們這種結構性的失業啦?比方說產業的移轉那這五個月來平均這五個月來從去年底到現在我們都維持在10萬人左右這種結構性的失業你認為這有什麼樣的方式可以避免嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9061.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9086.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
事實上我們最近的結構性失業都維持很穩定就是在10萬人左右所以這本身的這個狀況也都遠遠低於疫情前所以這個部分其實它是也是呈現穩定的一個狀態那整個一個產業結構的一個轉換那導致的一個失業率的一個產生那這是有一些是屬於也不可避免的 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9086.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9110.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
另外一個引誘就是說我們青年失業率青年失業率一直居高不下啦像現在我們平均算青年失業率已經來到11.75%而且傷腦筋的是平均待業99天平均的待業天數99天這是10年來的新高啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9111.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9134.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
所以很可怕的我們青年人失業率這麼高11.75%是整體勞工失業率將近4倍之高欸將近4倍之高所以你看法呢我個人我是覺得說我們青年就業環境就業環境惡化 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9135.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9151.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
在你的看法有沒有什麼方式可以做調整做避免因為青年的失業率一向大部分都是比較高各國也都是一樣這樣的一個狀況那本身青年的失業率像一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9153.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9179.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
一般就是我們的一般輔導措施其實像青年署他裡面都會有一些譬如說給青年一些公讀的機會或者是說暑期有去那個做公讀這樣的一個或者是說非暑期的部分他也都會去協助青年的就業所以在就業基金裡面他也有辦理很多協助青年就業相關的一個措施所以我們一般都會把這些相關的數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9181.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9209.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
提供給相關的單位來做參考然後讓他作為修訂相關措施的一個依據而且主計長很傷勞金的是我們有6成以上的青年勞工他是負債的那麼有平均他們的青年的存款只有13.2萬這也是創下4年以來的新低啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9211.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9229.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
照說我們備質為貶的話那存款應該為增喔結果現在不增反減反減那六成的勞工他們是負債的而且這個負債還導於你說是卡債的佔了31%那麼車貸的佔了20.2%信用貸款36.1%這一些啊都是高利率的 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9241.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9252.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
負債那這一點我覺得沒有給青年人39歲以下的青年朋友他們有任何新的希望所以在這個部分我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9253.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9270.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
你們的數據呈現以後,你們具體提建言給我們行政團隊,可不可以讓他們去調節政策。那還有一點很可怕的就是說,我們竟然有三分之二的勞工領不到平均薪資。 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9273.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9299.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那這方面的傷腦筋的是中等薪資啦中等薪資的所得者他們10年來沒有得到調薪所以主計處我希望你把這些數字統整以後你要建議建議財政部建議經濟部因為現在我們正在審中小企業發展條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9301.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9320.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那我個人跟很多委員我們有提出建言而且我們有提出修法的部分就是說鼓勵對中等薪資調薪者能夠得到更高的優惠的減稅額 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9323.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9325.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我們會把相關的數據提給相關的單位來做一個政策的參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9342.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9344.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
謝謝王世堅委員的諮詢 接著我們請李燕秀委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9369.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9369.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
陳主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9376.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9398.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
委員好主席長好今天是你的立法院的第一天接受我們的質詢首先要先恭喜你但是我想你也非常清楚過去你都是法家你的法家在台南市法家現在掌握整個國家法家是你我想你一定非常清楚了解這個地方的感受 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9399.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9415.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
所以過去無論是地方的財源來自促餐：包括委外的經營：包括地上權：包括市有重劃來去處理想辦法東擠西挪想辦法去找錢但是我們都知道其實巧複為難為無米之錘所以過去無論是臺南市長的賴清德 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9422.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9433.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
當任副總統的賴清德當任行政院長賴清德對於過去長期都用人口來去做這個才化法的劃分跟給各地方縣市的這個財源其實過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9437.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9464.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
賴清德也說對台南市非常不公平以台南是文化的首都單純以人口作為分配的依據其實他覺得是有調整的必要那我先就這個問題財化法現在已經25年沒有修了現在很多區域的立委各政黨對於財化法的處理都有想法也提案那我先請教主計長你對於財化法25年沒修你覺得該不該修 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9466.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9484.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
事實上財劃法的一個這個主導的單位是財政部那這個部分財劃法為什麼會這麼多年一直沒有修是因為他修也有他的一個困難因為本身第一個個限是他的條件不一樣財政的一個負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9485.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9491.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
每個委員也就只有8分鐘而已所以你就直接我只想問你你在地方待過你現在到中央你現在是主計長你對於財化法的修正你覺得有沒有必要修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9510.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9537.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
你如果說我是台南市政府主計處處長我會希望修正因為我希望取得更多的財源越多越好但是我希望如果站在全國的立場我希望能夠調劑營需因為每個縣市他都不一樣他的條件都不相同財政的差距也不相同所以你必須要以中央他必須要有一個能一個額度給他來做調整的作用所以你到底是支持不支持我聽不懂你說幾句沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9538.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9562.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
但是我就說現行的制度是不是有分配到公平因為我以現行來講所以才要討論嘛所以你到底支持哪一個版本我們可以討論但是你覺得該不該處理但是以現在的現狀來講我透過一般的縣市的一個補助包括計劃型計劃的一個補助他都能夠調整各縣市的一個符合各縣市的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9562.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9563.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9577.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9577.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
中央財政委員會委員會長 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9594.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9620.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
市長賴清德臺南市財政大感失利財務法沒有通過自有裁員比例是非常低的但是行政院長賴清德講說財政劃分法修正案行政院一定要正視這個問題兩次的行政院院長賴清德都支持財務法要處理所以這件事情我要提醒你們不要換了一個位置換了一個腦袋這是我今天我想你來這地方你更知道地方的痛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9621.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9643.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
所以這件事情你應該大力疾呼你現在擔任國家的大掌櫃主計長這件事情要怎麼處理既然市長的賴清德支持行政院長賴清德支持你過去在主計長的時候在台南市的時候你也支持沒有道理你擔任國家大掌櫃你換了一個屁股換了一個腦袋我們怎麼樣對人民交代 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9643.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9664.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
至於什麼樣的方向我覺得可以大家再來討論不處理是不能交代的好不好這個是我第一個問題那我不希望這件事情再一次跳票所以過去特別是我們也講說過去幾年中央財政都很好啊稅金剩餘都很多啊今年看起來我們的經濟成長又到6.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9665.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9677.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
看起來不錯啊,你不能中央吃肉,在地方都吃骨頭,連肉渣都沒有看到,這是我的重點所以我還是希望主計長這邊要跟卓院長跟賴總統討論一下,特別這個議題有沒有討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9684.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9685.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
所以卓院長的態度怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9715.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9715.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9725.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9742.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那你內部都沒有討論過我們再來要做業務報告可能要針對這個部分也做好那我期待下一次我還是會繼續追這個問題我來看看過去台南市的主計長現在國家大黨會中央的國際處長現在的我們主計長到底有沒有換了一個屁股換了一個腦袋也要想辦法要落實賴總統賴市長賴行政院長政策到底有沒有做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9752.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9753.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
經濟成長率預估6.51明天舉辦國民所得評審會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9769.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9778.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
最近我看到我們今年其實首一季的經濟成長率是不錯的我們看看2023年的11月經濟成長率是3.35%通膨是1.642022月每三個月做一次經濟成長率3.43通膨1.85我有看到一個數字主計長我們明年要公佈的這個數字經濟成長率是3.57我們通膨是1.9是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9800.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9805.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這個部分像因為第一季我們的經濟成長是6.51所以本身我們本來是預估這個數字3.57跟1.9這個是我在媒體上看到數字是這樣嗎明天我們要開會的國民所得評審會議上是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9816.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9816.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9836.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9838.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
你剛剛講說是其他數字換算加了其他的因素算出來還是3.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9857.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9875.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
就是以1到4月實際發生的狀況去推算的結果其他條件後面的就是原預估的不變這樣的話才有3.57那也是以明天的這個數字會出來那加上其他的因素才會是3.57跟1.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9877.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9878.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
所以結論還是換算出來最後的結果還是3.57跟1.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9900.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9923.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
1.9的部分事實上通貨膨脹的部分我們本來是預估1.85但是我如果把那個間接和直接的因素考慮進去的話按照道理電價的影響他是4月開始5月就會感受到了5月就會感受到然後後面的影響就是大概是沒有一整年就是等於說主席長所以這樣叫大概2.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9925.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9925.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
主席主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9941.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9942.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9967.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9987.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
去年的實質薪資是負成長嗎?你知道負成長多久了?幾年?但是今年有正成長,今年第一季是負的去年是負成長,今年第一季已經正成長了那整年度會不會正成長?應該預估是OK的 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9991.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10002.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
你看好今年是正成長因為今年今年通膨通膨2.0到底2個2到多少還不知道但是如果說我換算通膨現在第一季的通膨換算之後我是成長0.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10005.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10022.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
所以你比過去的朱哲銘 朱大掌櫃 朱哲銘你對於今年這個民眾的這個經濟成長率還有包括通膨的狀況你還是 我覺得你還是蠻樂觀的啦你覺得實質人民的實質 因為過去實質總薪資已經連續幾年負成長你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10026.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10027.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
總薪資只有去年是副成長經常性的實質薪資有三年今年你認為可以轉正就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10041.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10069.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
因為今年其實今年的第一季的那個經常性薪資他是有增加但是他如果換算那個通膨的一個膨脹率的部分通膨的綠綠的話就會變成是減少0.09但還是正的嗎但是總薪資是增加0.88但我問的是受僱人員經常性的實施薪資今年會轉正你覺得會轉正因為朱哲銘之前回答我是一半一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10072.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10097.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
總薪資我知道我問的是受雇人員經常性的實施薪資經常性薪資我不敢講因為經常性薪資大概就是這個水準但是這個水準轉換通貨膨脹率的部分所以你不確定多少的比例多少50 50你還是50 50還是沒有機會你沒有回答我問題你看稍微已經站起來到底你的看法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10098.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10099.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
請黃珊珊委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10136.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10136.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
有請主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10144.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10166.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
委員好是主計長我想您從地方政府來我也從地方政府來所以大家都知道而且應該是所有的政府部門尤其地方政府都很清楚中央跟地方財政收支劃分一直是個很大的問題尤其是88年修法到現在其實沒有再修過 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10167.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10183.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
25年了25年我很認真地去找出主計長你在2008年在台南市主計處長的任內念成大的研究所的碩士論文您在碩士論文的時候您還記得您說過什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10185.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10198.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我那時候是有主張說要修正才劃法啦你那時候在民國88年以後的97年的你的碩士論文說因為配合精神將一頁稅從地方稅劃入國稅認為造成嚴重的縣市財政收支失衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10203.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10220.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
最重要是中央集權又集錢地方有責卻無權也無錢所以你認為目前不足以解決地方政府所面臨的問題還有修法的必要所以才化法應該要儘速修法主計長97年到現在又過了10多年 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10221.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10221.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10243.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10243.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
李慧琼議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10260.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10261.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
不要換了位置就換了腦袋 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10281.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10294.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
您了解地方的財政困難您也了解中央這個法律已經25年沒有修訂您也了解現在中央的分配方式其實是沒有一定的規範所以我只要求一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10295.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10311.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
接下去財政委員會要開始審財政收支劃分法我希望主計處你可以答應我做一件事就是用至少用111年的決算把那一年度的相關的預算跟統籌分配稅款按照現在財委會有16個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10314.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10340.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
這16個版本每個都有不同的公式你用一個年度的預算來計算整個model然後提出各個部分版本可能影響到的地方財政的分配還有中央的預算的執行就這個部分做出一個不同比對的相關的模組出來提供給財委會接下來要審議的委員們大家可以看到說按照A版本應該會怎麼分B版本會怎麼分會影響什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10341.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10353.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
這個在我們的財委會出審的過程中由主計處先把預算針對現有的版本先做出一個基本的模組出來主計處可不可以先做到這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10354.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10380.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
報告委員因為財政這個部分是財政部主導那整個統籌分配稅的部分是財政統籌分配稅是他主導錢是你在分嘛所以你們的模組是你預算執行跟決算的數字由你來做計算按照這個版本你會算出什麼樣的方式你要找財政部去演你我也沒有意見但是我認為這是主計處你們現有的數字就可以推算出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10382.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10397.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
一般性補助 統籌分配稅款是財政部 是不是請委員分配縣市的這個部分 我也會找財政部 您的部分就業管的部分 也做出模組 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10400.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10423.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
這個版本有影響到地方分配的部分跟主計處有關的你也做出這個模組來所以我們是希望說我們跟財政部來配合因為如果財委會的委員要審查接下來的財政收支劃分法必須要很清楚的知道我們接下去的修訂的公式會對地方稅制有什麼樣的影響這個可能需要主計處跟財政部的配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10424.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10425.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
同樣的問題這個修法迫在眉睫到現在為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10440.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10465.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
賴總統在2012年他在台南市長的時候說要修訂2017年他當行政院長的時候也說要修訂我想知道因為蔡英文總統是目前為止唯一一個沒有提過財化法修正的版本的總統接下去的賴總統他請你來當主計長財化法立法院也有版本了我想問一下賴總統有沒有自己的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10466.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10478.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
你來當主計長有沒有人跟你說過你要做自己的版本沒有沒有什麼時候會告訴我們你們會不會有自己的版本或至少配合立法院的版本行政院要有相關的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10480.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10508.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
這要由財政部來做決定這不是我能決定的啦所以我希望一樣不要換了位子換了腦袋地方政府的困難我想你比誰都清楚第二個這個部分應該怎麼樣讓它法制化明文化跟透明化讓地方政府不再養中央的鼻息而它可以有自由裁員而且它可以維持財務的穩健好嗎主計長我這是我對你的期許我也希望你把地方政府的經驗帶到中央來而是讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10509.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10533.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
各個地方政府能夠更加的財政健全第二個部分很特別我想問一下主計處其實一直在推所謂的經費結算系統電子化最後一里路我想知道現在主計處尤其是您在當主計長接下去我們所謂的電子化核銷的作業有沒有什麼進展有沒有什麼計畫時間暫停 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10540.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10555.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
這我請同仁來補充資料那現在呢要不要來講一下是主席處對於電子核銷有沒有什麼想法有沒有什麼計畫有沒有什麼政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10557.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10576.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
報告委員目前我們主計總處有發展一套公用性捷報系統另外我們也協助各單位來制建系統還有那個您用我們主計處的系統主計長我的意思是說在我們在臺北市的時候其實有推動所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10577.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10606.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
政府電子化核銷作業然後臺北市目前為止至少在我們離任之前109年他節省電子化核銷的件數是10萬件節省掉了9100多個工作日省掉了222萬張H4紙也就是我們現在的公務系統還是很多要黏貼要做很多那財政部不斷的在推動電子化電子發票但是這些事情跟我們的政府好像沒什麼關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10607.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10620.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
所以政府有剛剛講你們有建立一個公有的系統但是我要告訴你的是沒有人用啊很少用啊而且最重要的是這些可能會造成大家的困擾所以公務員不習慣變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10622.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10651.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
財政部不斷的推廣電子核銷電子發票但是政府部門沒有往前走我們當然不希望影響到一般的中小店家但是電子化是政府應該走的路主計長這個部分是不是也要有一些未來的計畫我希望你不要多一個月給我一個你初步的想法如果地方政府臺北市政府目前電子核銷到達到99%我不相信地方政府做不到我也不相信中央政府做不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10653.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10668.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我們現在目前112年有448個中央機關來使用經費解報系統我們CBA也有去借台北市政府相關的一個系統所以我們會努力來推動這一個部分顯然還是太過於 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10669.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10696.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
只是鼓勵性質太過於鬆散第二個效益不高第三個跟我們政府的國策好像沒有跟上來尤其是如果財政部拼命在推但是政府部門應該優先來做我希望一個月之內針對電子化的部分請主計長給我一個初步的計畫跟未來的規劃至少有個方向你可以不用一開始強力推但是你總要開始做 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10696.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10697.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
李坤 陳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10724.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10727.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
謝謝主席我們請主計長委員好主計長好請教一下主計長我們這個前瞻計畫的預算是到哪一年結束我們到114年整個8400億然後到114年剩下703億預算是明年還會有前瞻計畫的預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10753.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10780.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
原則上因為這前瞻計劃是整個一個計劃當初有核定通過所以我們原則上是會把整個計劃執行完畢是這樣子我的意思是說這個現在開始要編明年度的預算了嘛那明年度還有這個前瞻預算嗎前瞻計劃的預算嗎還有嗎因為你目前前瞻計劃他8年嘛那最後一年就是114年度有剩下703億的部分那這個部分我們原則上是會把它籌編 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10781.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10803.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
明年的前瞻計畫預算還有700多億就對了現在我比較關心的就是說在我自己的選區不管在三重或是新北市我們有很多的交通建設、軌道建設都是仰賴政府的前瞻的預算那如果說前瞻的預算直到明年就結束了那接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10804.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10804.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10820.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10849.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
明年這個特別預算就沒有了但是接下來這些軌道建設陸陸續續都還在做不是只有新北 台北也在做接下來如果沒有這筆特別預算來挹注的話因為我看光是我們前瞻預算來講8千億軌道建設就佔了一半 佔了4千億如果沒有前瞻預算的挹注的話接下來我們在新北 我們自己的軌道建設該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10851.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10879.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
原則上坦白說我們目前也有很大的壓力因為如果在前瞻計畫沒有的話前瞻預算沒有的話將來各項工程如果進入支付的高峰期那再來都要把它到年度預算裡面來容納那年度預算裡面的那財源是固定的所以你就會有一些優先順序排列就預算就排擠了嗎是就會有排擠的一個狀況所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10879.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10906.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
當然到時候就是114年至少還有703億嘛但是目前交通建設各項的建設都已經進入支付的高峰期所以需求就會變大但是703億分配到軌道建設才多少對所以等於說115年以後籌編就會更為困難對啊光是這個700多億我不知道說有關軌道建設是多少但是光是我自己在新北市的北環南環這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10908.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10912.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
預算大概五六千億以上啦是跑不掉啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10913.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10939.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
對阿 那就像你講的接下來開始在做了那好不容易也發報出去開始在做了那每年每年都要付預算阿那如果說我們政府沒有在特別有這個特別預算下去挹注的話那就會排擠到交通部的本預算那所以我想請問一下主計長那如果這樣子的話接下來還會用特別預算的方式來做處理嗎那還是說這個多出來預算那就編列到各部會那你這個預算這個錢要怎麼編得出來阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10942.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10957.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
因為其實是預算的一個編列是看各部會的一個需求他提出的一個需求那當然你如果說再來就是會如果前瞻計畫沒有的話那將來他勢必要去衝擊到年度的一個預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10958.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10975.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
等於說年度的一個公共建設的一個預算他的額度可能是度勢必要做大幅的一個增加那這個部分也必須要看財源能不能容納容納多少這個部分必須我們必須看財政部他畢竟在1114年或者115年後以後他針針對他稅務財源的一個估算 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10982.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11009.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
就我來講如果你沒有持續用特別預算來指引的話你這個所增加的這些預算一定會大幅排擠本來的這一個各部會的預算尤其是交通部你看嘛交通部我跟他爭取要做地下停車場他說地下停車場的預算已經用完了欸已經用完了欸那他說接下來如果沒有編特別預算的話他要用他交通部的這個部的預算老實講 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11010.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11010.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
主計長的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11041.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11058.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
這也要看我們整個政策是不是要提特別預算也應該要按部會的需求來看我先不用說各部會 因為你是最後各部會送到你這邊去主計長認為說是不是還要再用特別預算的方式來做質疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11059.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11073.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
因為也有很多的委員針對特別預算有所質疑那在這個部分也必須要看院裡頭府城這邊來針對這個部分的一個研議看情形是怎麼樣然後看是怎麼樣來做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11076.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11096.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
但是如果沒有這些特別預算做指引的話我是認為第一個建設延續下去你就會勢必排擠到說其他各部會原本的預算那如果這個你們自己可能自己行政院你們要去討論好如果說到明年這個前瞻預算真的計畫也結束的時候接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11097.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11123.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
其他的只計畫我認為還好但是有關軌道這方面來講的話你如果沒有用特別預算來指引的話我覺得是很困難的事情所以各項一個計畫的一個優先順序的排列就很重要然後各部會也要有所取捨所以這個部分好我再來請教一下這個主計長這個剛剛你有提到說這個今年度的這一個GDPGDP你認為說這個3.5以上沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11126.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11151.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
如果是我以第一季來去估算的話然後其他條件不變我前面三四個月這樣的一個換算來換算應該是超過3.5是OK就是等於我初估如果以前以現在發生實際前三個月情況去估算然後後面條件都維持不動是3.5是OK但是還是要等到明天我們30號會有一個小組針對這個討論以後真正的數據他會做公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11154.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11180.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
我看這個主計長是蠻熱觀的齁這個我們卓院長說希望有3.5然後我看您早上有說這個甚至會更高到這個多少3點多這個數字我不敢講啦但是這個部分我也不能公佈數字但是這個部分明天討論之後我們就會公佈那這個如果按照你現在預算的這個估算的話會比3.5高那你認為會有哪些變數會受到影響因為當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11184.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11211.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
電費調整成本會增加相對的對GDP會有一些的影響這個部分然後包括譬如說如果是政治的因素地緣政治有一些戰爭的一些因素的影響戰爭的影響或是地緣政治的一些影響都會影響到我們整個GDP的那個但整體來講全年度還是樂觀的原則上初步來講以第一季來看是樂觀的 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11212.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11229.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
好那你看有提到那個台電的問題啦台電的話你們有送這個一千億的這個增加預算到立法院來嘛對不對那如果這個立法院因為現在這個國民黨跟民眾黨在國會是多數嘛那如果他不讓這個預算增加預算這個通過的話該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11231.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11250.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
因為如果不給他因為這主要是做虧損的一個補貼啦他因為他有一些燃料成本嘛他必須要有一個如果不調整電價的話他就必須要去做一些虧損的補貼那不然的話他沒有辦法繼續去運作那所以如果這一點不讓你通過的話該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11252.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11275.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
那這個部分就變成是說臺電他應該要再研擬相關的一個措施那他的措施到底是要調整電價還是怎麼樣的一個方式電價他現在也不讓你調整啊他現在電價他修改這個電業法就是說要立法院同意電價才能調整嘛所以我是問你說在這種情況下如果說在野黨他這個追加預算也不讓你過然後臺電他也不讓他漲價的話怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11277.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11293.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
那所以如果台電他在營運的部分呢必須要舉債他就應該要去借錢啦那不然但是借錢的話他的營運成本又增加所以這個部分就是有一些惡性的循環所以最後還是還是回到這個羊毛素在羊身上的這個這個這個問題啊是這個台電齁在112年113年齁連同今年的最佳預算齁你們已經給他3500億啦對不對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11304.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11323.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
這老實講齁 這個台電的虧損齁多少四千億的齁 四千億的那這樣子的話就是說我們去年是因為我們有賺錢那所以我們就多一千億給這個台電那這個對台電來講也不是這個長久的辦法啊對啊 那台電該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11326.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11335.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
所以這個部分因為就它整個營運的狀況來講的話應該是要做一些相關的一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11339.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11342.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
臺電會把他們虧損的預算列在他們的預算裡面但是經濟部那邊好像有些意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11359.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11387.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
是因為我們也有做對台電等於說我們去年兩年4千億總共有一些是屬於增資那如果說真正的不行也可以做那個虧損彌補做一個調整做一個虧損的一個調整那現在營運的話如果營運成本的部分他如果去擠借如果錢不夠去借款那就是增加一些成本大概目前的措施是這樣如果他沒有調整電價的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11389.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11390.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
臺電整個措施要看臺電的作法 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11418.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11418.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
有請主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11425.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11446.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
委員好主計長您好記得這個會期主計總處在3月7號有開過一個記者會當時是宣布2月的物價指數年增率是3.08當時是預估說可能全年要修正從1.64上調到1.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11450.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11455.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
後來說臺電會調漲電價所以我們是預計說可能全年會影響到0.09所以通膨可能會站上1.94逼近2%的警戒線當時我問說需不需要建議央行升息對抗通膨後來我們就看到說在3月21號的時候央行升息了半碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11477.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11477.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11494.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11511.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
在前幾天有一則新聞就是提到說可能會上修今年的一個經濟成長率不過物價上漲的壓力仍在那在這裡呢我們也看到就是央行說不排除再升息 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11512.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11517 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
現在想要請教一下我們主計長因為這個是很兩難嘛我們也看到在會議當中大家的意見也是兩派如果不升席的話難以壓制物價可是如果升席的話呢好像對我們的這個像經濟部啊廠商這些又會有一些些的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11535.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11562.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
在這邊因為主計長您是新上任的所以我想說特別想要了解一下你的想法現在大家都會去討論所謂臺灣好像經濟是一個人的武林我們這些ICT的產業臺積電大家一枝獨秀帶領我們的經濟成長但是好像是無法去讓全民去共享 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11563.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11590.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
所以有時候這個幸福感也不見得會正確啦那這是一個政治的藝術所以想要請教主計長就是您權衡這個消費者物價跟企業經營的成本然後去考量我國的這種產業的結構你認為這個CPI年增率應該控制在什麼數字你覺得比較合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11592.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11614.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
原則上我們因為其實我們是辦理調查然後相關的數據去做提供給各單位去做參考所以等於我們會認為說如果是年增率如果能夠控制在2%以下當然是最好啦但是問題有時候就是有一些其他的因素啊比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11615.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11617.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
因為我們主計總處也有提到景氣有慢慢變好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11640.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11658.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
有提到就是我們的景氣有慢慢變好那我們的一到四月第一季你們也提到說他的經濟成長率是6.51是十一季以來最佳表現三年來的一個最高那在這裡你應該也很清楚是什麼帶動 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11659.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11686.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
可是我們看一下你們做的這個勞動部做的2023年一個社會新鮮人的薪資比較我們看到他的平均全體平均是三萬五千可是細看的時候很明顯的這些資訊通訊科技這些ICT產業他是一枝獨秀 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11687.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11707.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
所以它是明顯高於其他的產業那這些傳統產業、內需產業跟其他的領域我們其實有很多的人是在這個領域去做我們的工作那又例如說你們這個夜報有提到這個辦理的物價統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11709.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11715.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我們的113年的第一季比去年同期是漲了2.24%那細看的時候像食物類是3.51服務類上漲是2.61經常性購買的是比去年同期漲了3.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11732.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11749.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
所以你們也做了一個統計就是我們薪資最低的20%的家庭跟薪資最高的20%的家庭他們的所得跟消費支出的一個占比差異很明顯我們可以看得出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11751.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11777.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
這些低薪資的家庭他的選擇大概就是先管住再管吃再管病那其他的消費性的休閒性的是他們最後的選擇這個跟我們的高收入家庭是不太一樣的占比的重要性也是不太一樣的所以在這邊只是想要就是了解一下我們主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11778.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11798.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
因為我們其實推出很多的政策我們講經濟成長率那為什麼人民會無感因為我們要去看他痛苦會痛苦在什麼地方如果是痛苦在他最基本的每天要面對的必須基本解決的政府做出多好的政策他都不會覺得好 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11798.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11821.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
所以我在這裡就是希望主計長您幫忙就是做一個功課因為像你們這邊我看到有一個主計總處家庭可支配所得變動趨勢在2021年的一個分析我們可以很清楚的看到低所得家庭他的收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11822.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11845.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
在這幾十年他的收入是緩慢的是停滯的可是高所得家庭的收入在這幾十年他其實是越來越高的所以我們雖然經濟成長率看起來是好的GDP是好的可是我們可能有很多的地方他是感受不到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11846.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11872.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
所以這個是一個主計總處其實你們都在做一些很好的分析有很多好的工具那這些你們會不會提供像我們的稅制啊社會救助啊勞工薪資啊產業結構投資市場就是提供給這些各部會讓他們去做一個調整的依據那想要聽一下主計長你們會怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11874.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11885.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
事實上我們相關的一個數據我們都有公開在我們的網站那只是公開喔對 那我們也會提供因為我們各部會有我們各部會的一個會計那我們也會提供給他們和統計人員來做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11894.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11903.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
社會保障支出方面家庭收支所得的最低和最高維持在6.05倍到6.15個人所得部分維持到3.93左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11910.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11939.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那這個部分我們會透過一些比如說租金的補貼因為他住的會有影響所以透過一些政策的一個改善來改善這當中的一個差距或者是說我們會有一些老人交通的一個補助那這也會改善這當中的一個差距這差距那所以呢整個部分這個部分我們就是說我們是希望能夠提供給各部會能夠來參考然後作為他整個改善整個措施的一句 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11939.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11963.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
主計長我的意思就是這樣因為你看一下我們剛才那個圖嘛你看他最後你們是做到2021嘛我要講的是說對你剛剛講的什麼租金補貼都對這個就是我們講的我們政策做很多但是人民之所以無感是那些低所得的人你看一下他的那個成長的幅度 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11965.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11980.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
有時候我們這些年越做越多可是它的差距是越來越大不換寡換不均有時候那個感受是相對的感受所以我才會說我們做很多政策是對的但是為什麼那個差距彌補不起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11981.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12007.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
就是希望說我們主計總處我是希望啦包括我們你們所做的這些什麼國民所得統計、物價統計、社會保障支出、人力工序、中央調查、基本國事調查、家庭收支統計我是希望說更積極主動的去銜接各部會的選擇而且我是希望啦主計總處要作為一個國家警報台啦你們要市警啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12008.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12032.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
因為你們掌握這一些分析統計資料因為我們看到我們真的做很多但是現狀實際你們做出來的分析統計就是沒有嘛所以我希望再更積極一點做市井的角色好不好那最後一個小小的問題啦因為我們經常在處理那個木林什麼工作要點等等之類但是呢每一次呢他們都會說啊我們還要跟主計總處討論啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12035.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12040.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我舉個簡單的例子假設像那個木鈴經費他要他們說因為是噪音所以他只補助他們去做那些什麼隔音的設備他說我總不能天天買冷氣天天做那個窗戶吧你們噪音的時候你應該允許我我那個禮拜我們可以出去旅遊啊他們就會說哎呀那個主計總處會不答應啦有些科目不能織我想請教一下主計長真的是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12062.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12063.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
主席請這個主計長有請陳主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12094.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12094.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12126.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12148.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
因為我們相關的資料吼 調查之後我們會公佈公佈在我們的網站但是你會 會 因為你們有的還要入戶嘛 我知道主計總組還要 主計處還要入戶去統計嘛或者說你家有多少收入有多少錢啊 這一份就副本 詳細的東西就送到我們民黨裝上去啊說明改天我在電視上看到王一川說 哇 這個家裡誰很有錢啊 這個又行動監控去了哪裡去哪裡啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12148.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12156.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
你們會送一份回黨中?你們黨中央嗎?我們這是總體數據的展現,不會有個人的總體,沒有說個體啦我們也沒有你們會做家務調查嘛,對不對?抽樣的嘛,我知道不會有個人的數據出現,都是整體數據的不會喔,你們做家務調查沒有,我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12167.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12169.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
金門縣財力分級問題各職轄縣縣市政府財力級次表 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
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您前一位我就討論過了是依據中央對直轄級縣市政府補助辦法的第8條規定也就是中央對直轄級縣市政府支企劃型補助款應按照財力級式給不同的補助比例在這個財力分級制度下您知道金門被歸為第幾級了第三級李導有幾個縣市哪幾個李導李導有幾個縣市哪幾個 |
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三個阿哪三個阿祖還有呢他們第幾集他們是第五集他們是第五集阿我們第三集哪些城市第三集 |
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台南高雄新竹嘉義新竹縣市你看喔你們的台南是多麼直轄市是多麼受到這個眷顧的地方啊你們畫第三期我們金門跟你們一樣畫第三期你們的財政規模你知道吧台南市的財政規模一年多少啊 |
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一千億我們才一百億然後我們的財力分局跟你們放在同一個這個跟你們這種一千億我們才一百億然後跟你們放在同一個級距裡頭合適嗎 |
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民國108年到112年金門縣資本門預算中央只有補助36.51到55 |
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三十幾趴到五十幾趴我們財政已經有很沉重的負擔近三年來我們稅率稅數決算的這個還審定的還短處高達新台幣59.29億我們已經產生了巨額的短差所以在這個情況下我們那個醫療中心京西醫療中心我們的博裕我們主要的這個幹道的優化工程我們進任國中的停車場我們中正國小的停車場我們有二十幾項的重大計劃總計劃的經費是一百零個億 |
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12327.657 |
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12352.037 |
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中央只要補助我們15億我們縣政府要自己配合87億中央才要補助我們15.19%造成我們縣庫很沉重負擔所以我剛跟你說的這些事情全部都沒有辦法做醫療也沒有辦法做道路主要道路也沒辦法做停車場也沒有辦法做二十幾項重大計畫你們只給我們15%的補助我們都沒有辦法做 |
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我們的自由財政自由財源的規模規模在全國各縣市是倒數第三名除了澎湖跟連江外其他縣市的自由財源稅率最初的規模都比我們多我們整個財源就只有超過澎湖跟連江那其中你們這些縣市有9個縣市自由財源超過100億 |
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你們的自由財源就超過我們整個縣的這個預算好像彰化屏東還有200億啊所以你們對我們的這個你們中央啊對我們這個直轄縣市的這個補助條第8條用自由財源比例你們是用自由財源的比例認定為是財力縣市政府財力及次的標準這個沒有辦法真正的合理展現縣市的這個財政能力 |
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主計長你有關心到嗎? |
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這個部分呢因為有時候財政規模也看人口也看面積啦對好我來跟妳看人口跟面積齁等一下我跟妳講人口跟面積我們的財政規模很小嘛基本線嘛小線嘛那我們基礎建設很弱厚啊我們縣政府大樓是57年蓋的衛生局是59年蓋所有局是66年這些都已經被評為危樓了喔可是我們沒有錢可以改建啊主計長你知道我們要自己負責你知道這個自來水應該是誰負擔嗎按照法律規定應該誰負擔嗎 |
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中央的地方自來水地方也要負擔一部分你知道自來水我們是自己負擔嗎自來水全省的這個臺灣啊包括澎湖啊中央在負擔我們是自己有自來水廠我們自己負擔我們的農林漁牧實驗所全部本來這都中央我們自己有農事所、林務所、敘事所 |
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水市所全部這些以前你們省的時候這個省負擔嘛後來收到中央都中央負擔我們這些全部都我們金門縣自己負擔我們那個水市所也是圍樓啊我們很多公務員辦公的地方都是圍樓啊 |
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我們上次這個新門縣這個之前我們這個中央這個政務委員前政務委員張景生有去開會我們的副主計長也有過去他說這個是很不合理的所以他協調主計總處針對這個補助辦法要重新計算財政級距劃分研議把金門的財政級距直接劃為第5級你知道嗎 |
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委員會主席 |
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不是因為第一個就是說那個是另外補助是另外歸補助然後本身縣市自由產生的一個財源的這個部分的比率他到底是多少然後你看看自由財源你看這個表金門澎湖跟連江我們人是三個我們用離島跟離島比是比較準的跟本島是當然沒有辦法比因為我們14萬澎湖10萬連江1萬我們面積也是最大人口也是最多我們收到的 |
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分配款是最少的我們只有才能自己籌的因為我們努力的賺錢所以你們給我們比較少錢我們收到19億澎湖統籌拿到24億我們跟澎湖比較接近你看喔規模啦齁一般性補助款我們收到14.5億澎湖拿到47億這樣是不是很不成比例啊我們14萬人口比人家多面積比人家大我們的統籌分配款得到比人家還有一般性補助款差這麼多 |
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那在計劃型補助裡頭也是啊因為第3級第5級也影響很大嘛是不是因為這個計劃型補助除了財力分級你們的各縣市的計劃也按照這個你們的財力分級來做補助的標準啊我現在告訴你我們很多事情都做不了先政府的圍樓沒有辦法改建主要的幹道沒有辦法做醫療中心也沒有辦法蓋 |
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是替我們考慮一下我們也不要求跟台灣一樣我們跟離島一樣就好我們跟澎湖一樣就好我們只要求我們離島只要跟離島比我們只要跟澎湖只要跟馬祖就是連江一樣就可以了 |
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因為才藝分級主要是要看你的裁員那你一直在說你一直在說因為我們很會就是說因為我們很努力的賺錢所以你是懲罰好學生嘛不是懲罰但是你如果表現的好這個都有獎勵像如果優秀是你看看那個表格全部獎勵了以後你看看那個表格全部獎勵以後我們的補助款得到14.5億澎湖得到47億統籌分配款我們得到19億澎湖得到24億這是獎勵後的結果嗎 |
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就是你這個制度沒有鼓勵一個很認真在自由財運努力上的這個縣市嘛我剛才說100多億的預算你們只給我們15億那些重大建設我們要自籌80幾億我們沒有辦法中央一直說金門有錢那金門有錢是因為我們也節育縮食我們也很省著用啊我們也很努力在賺對不對我們也很努力在賺但是你們不能這樣子懲罰我們啊不然我們很多重大建設真的做不下去連大橋都要我們自己花一半的錢 |
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謝謝陳玉珍委員的質詢 接著我們請羅明采委員質詢 |
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主席各位主列席官員大家早安大家好主席可不可以請陳淑姿陳主計長有請陳主計長陳主計長你好你可以說是最重要的管錢的財神爺每個人看到你特別是每縣市都是嗷嗷待哺 |
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剛剛有陳玉珍委員講到金門金門是離島要多多照顧因為有您多照顧明天才會變得更好因為離島過去資源不多 |
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主計長還有哪一個地方應該多補助一點 |
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因為要補助的縣市也很多啦那每個縣市都喊窮說沒有錢我看大部分所以這個部分我們一般啦我們在一般性的補助我們都有給他說一個保證保證的產品就是說會成長這樣子所以我們每一年在分配的時候都有跟他有一個是保證說每一年固定成長2%到3這樣子 |
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對,但是因為你是新來的啦先擔任這個職務就這二三十年來看我覺得這個職務是相當重要的啦因為運籌帷幄那怎麼樣來讓地方自主性可以增加以前他們在講說一鄉一特色 |
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或者運用什麼樣的加持的力量讓他可以有一個自主性的發展比如說我看到也是臺灣之光這個NVIDIAJASON黃仁勳他要回來臺灣那要在高雄要設廠 |
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其實他本來在台灣他們就有公司了啦那員工也上千人都有在做那我覺得中央應該統籌一個力量怎麼樣平均的來分配比如說新竹是半導體的重鎮他就有一個特色所以在過去 |
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民國七十幾年的時候因為有打這樣的一個基礎啊所以他開枝山葉半導體核心整個就廣布啊很平均的上下有這個鏈就是生成的我覺得主計長你的位置重要性就是說農林漁牧或者是觀光也好像剛剛講的離島你要賦予他離島 |
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當然每個人都要錢當然錢是越多越好可是你在給錢的給預算的同時也希望能多多跟他們聊聊看當地的教育文化過去的歷史特性有沒有什麼可以重點支持的比如說泰國好了講到泰國主席長你最先想到的是 |
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他的什麼產業比較發達泰國的產業喔觀光吧觀光對你不要害怕啦就是你這個胸有成竹啦你經驗很豐富就是觀光所以他就產業鏈就形成了嘛所以我就希望說在我們一般性補助或者是有特別補助 |
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你們在統籌統治中央的立場在分配的時候是可以除了照顧之外另外還可以求未來未來性的一個發展那接下來我們就有遇到這個才化法的問題最近大概已經等了25年了地方都 |
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澳澳代補本席也是希望多聽聽主計長你多年來在公務生涯的經驗你住在台南待過嗎還在那邊待過省政府省政府也待過行政院主計總處也待過都待過所以你的經驗數字你趕快準備出來希望你能給予大家一個比較 |
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公平給大家一個比較有建設性的建議讓第一個貧富懸殊不要越來越大第二個給錢的同時你要叫他釣魚要怎麼樣帶動他地方的發展或者是缺的部分你們就要媒合啊拜託經濟部啊 |
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上次我跟過去的省部長後來行政院副院長我覺得他對台灣貢獻就很大當初他就是跟這些AI的這些很成功的全世界大概前四大他大概每個都有接觸過然後來台灣的時候都跟他們探討怎麼樣 |
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把這些技術或者他們缺晶片他馬上來把管道讓他連接上所以希望主計長可以辦演好為每個地方為國家多多來做事的這樣的一個重責大任另外就是過去主計的預測好像都失真失準準確度都不高 |
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比如說今年經濟成長率你們估計多少3.43去年估的時候呢去年估2點多然後2點多到3點差很多因為你差一個0.1的百分比就差多少多少的數字 |
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那我也期許主計長就是把餅做大希望在你的這個資源裡面稍微盤點一下然後多多注重民生大家關心的議題 |
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譬如說有些產業你們跟各部份要聊一下比如說ToroToro的價格最近怎麼樣生魚片鮪魚啊降到200塊那是降到200塊更低了更低喔更低了以前是一小片可能就是200、300還到500 |
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現在是那麼大片多了一片價格也變降很多所以這名稱的數字你們希望也多多了解農民的辛苦漁民的困難因為他量多嘛量多你就可以請其他單位未雨綢繆多多促銷 |
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比如說現在一個便當好了我們吃的便當現在一個多少錢?雞腿便當我最近在火車站那邊買他有85到120然後85和100的排骨便當他裡面的內容還是不太一樣所以他還是有各種不同的價格那雞排便當的話大概要120台鐵便當現在一個大概100塊你要雞腿就變成是120 |
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一百二那以前大概六十八十塊都可以就是可以吃得到現在開始都一直飆漲主計長其實你可以在漲的同時你們可以有另外一個機制宣布出來說民眾注意阿現在Toro很便宜阿你們要促銷阿 |
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所以你們第一線去查的這些數字不是放在辦公室吹冷氣是要把這些數字有效精準的給其他單位這點可以做得到嗎 |
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13290.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13311.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我們盡量,我們一定努力然後你可以跟教育部啊,這邊互相聯繫好啊因為小朋友營養午餐等等,要吃得好吃得飽啊你就把這個鮪魚比較低的,叫他們多使用鮪魚啊香蕉量產太多的時候,大家都多吃香蕉啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13314.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13341.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
反正這些民生物資的我看以前彭淮仁總裁他貴為央行的總裁常常為福出巡希望主計長你也可以多多比照多了解一下民間苦人何其多可以多多站在他們立場來想事情最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13342.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13362.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
提醒你新北市人口400多萬人以前升格到現在中央欠新北市很多錢該給的統籌分配稅款一般補助專案補助都比期待值差很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13363.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13381.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
所以希望這一點主計長也能數字多多瞭解一下我們一起共同為新北市的市民來多做爭取可以嗎?是,我們一定盡力好,謝謝好,謝謝榮民財委員質詢接著我們請鄭天才委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13394.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13411.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
主席請主計長有請主計長委員好主計長好恭喜你謝謝委員你曾經在行政院主計總處服務過是民國90年 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13417.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13440.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
我那時候在延明會我是老公務員三四年老公務員從省政府到中央我們在省政府也有共事過所以這個部分還是要請主計長還有我們行政院主計總處的同仁再次了解原住民的困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13442.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13457.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
那我們看111年這個原住民就業者參加勞保的情形原住民無勞保之勞工他是勞工但是沒有勞保的4萬0553人112年這又增加到5萬2002人一直增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13467.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13467.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13483.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13510.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
就已經諮詢過然後勞動部：當時的司長他已經退休了勞保局長退休了當時的司長也開過三次會議最後一次106年7月10號要編的預算但是沒有錢一直到現在都沒有解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13513.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13539.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
事實上嚴住民族基本法26條第二項規定政府對嚴住民參加社會保險無力負擔者得以補助所以這個非常非常的重要這個部分請勞動部跟主計總處能夠互相的協調給最大的支持可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13540.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13559.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
因為就同仁提供資料裡面他就是說在勞工職業災害保險法裡面他已經有提供那個原民勞工的一個職災給護的一個保障那所以這個部分呢他本身如果有這些的保障就能解決那些沒有參加那個部分我來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13561.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13584.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
那個只是其中之一啦有勞保跟沒有勞保差很多啊平常生病平常這個什麼相關的這些勞保的這些協助都有嘛好講到植栽植栽的時候如果他有勞保我們就講這次的0403地震呢有一個開大號車的被大壓石頭壓過濕了 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13589.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13590.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13607.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13633.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
讓主計長瞭解還有我們主計總策同仁也瞭解我們的平均移民落差很大沿漢的平均移民落差很大所以我們常常會有訴求所以像國民年金法就是原住民是55歲公教退休原住民是55歲還有很多還沒有完成的比如說勞工的還有其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13634.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13663.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
都是需要去降低他的年齡我們看這個平均收入我們的差距差距也是很大連漢的平均收入差距也很大所得就有影響我們的失業率我們的這個出債協力教育是向上提升最重要的對不對教育向上提升最重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13664.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13677.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
這裡面為什麼要跟這個主計總處講呢?你看我們107斜年度沿漢的落差那時候107斜年度全國是85.8 原住民53.9 差距是31.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13684.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13705.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
但是到了111斜年度全國88.9原住民56.5雖然我們也上升了但是差距加大了32.4有很大的原因是什麼呢因為我們原住民的那個身血保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13706.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13732.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
原住民族教育法有升學保障那是外加2%外加不影響一般學生的升學我們是外加2%以前沒有以前不是外加只要加分就可以考上現在是外加2%外加2%的結果是怎麼樣呢就跑到私立大學了就繳不起那些學費所以這次選舉前 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13734.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13734.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
主席主席總書記 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13763.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13764.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
要請主計長多多幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13790.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13804.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
今日登記發言的委員已詢答完畢本次會議做如下決定一、報告及詢答完畢二、委員質詢及委員質詢為其答覆或請補充資訊請行政院主計處於一座內 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13806.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13817.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
與書面答覆委員另有要求期限者從其鎖定本次會議議程已進行完畢堂友不在委員補題書面資料一併列入記錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理。散會 |