| IVOD_ID |
15952 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15952 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-27T08:31:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-27T12:55:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:23:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a6854197e6bbfb965dc71fc48310b441d33d3be8d109af184be47411e51a222cc80e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查
(一)委員林德福等19人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員馬文君等25人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(四)委員涂權吉等17人擬具「就業服務法部分條文修正草案」案。
(五)委員黃建賓等20人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(六)委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。
(七)委員盧縣一等17人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(八)委員鄭正鈐等17人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(九)委員王育敏等17人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(十)委員張嘉郡等30人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(十一)委員王鴻薇等22人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查
(一)委員萬美玲等36人擬具「勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員許宇甄等18人擬具「勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員馬文君等20人擬具「勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案」案。
(四)委員邱若華等16人擬具「勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案」案。
【一（九） ：如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】
【一(十)、(十一) ：如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】
【討論事項綜合詢答】
【5月27日、29日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:20 - 12:55:00 |
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15770.08971875 |
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196.635 |
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196.655 |
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案。 |
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1725.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1725.883 |
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府長還沒到耶。 |
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1811.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1813.547 |
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現在初期委員已足法定人數現在開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1815.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1825.365 |
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好請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年5月22日星期三9時至12時53分5月23日星期四9時至13時4分地點群閑樓801會議室出席委員林月琴等15人列席委員顏寬恒等29人列席官員5月22日環境部部長彭啟明 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1842.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1853.418 |
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五月二十三日勞動部部長何佩珊主席黃兆吉委員秀芳五月二十二日報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況並備質詢本日會議由環境部部長報告後委員蘇清泉等21人提出質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1861.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1881.246 |
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軍經環境部部長及各相關主管等及其答覆。委員陳昭芝、邱振鈞及盧憲伊所提書面質詢,列入紀錄刊登公報。決定一、報告及詢答完畢。二、委員質詢為其答覆或請補充資料者,請相關機關於二週內以書面答覆。委員另要求期限者從其所定。5月23日,邀請勞動部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1883.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1903.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
列席報告業務概況並被質詢本日會議由勞動部部長報告後委員陳昭芝等24人提出質詢軍警勞動部部長及各相關主管等及其答覆委員楊耀、邱振鈞、牛許廷、李燕秀、羅志強及翁曉琳所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報決定一報告及詢答完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1904.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1914.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
二、委員質詢為其答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二周內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從其鎖定通過臨時提案一項宣讀完畢好請問委員會上次議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處好沒有的話我們議事錄確定好接下來本次會議程四之一第一案審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1933.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1957.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
委員林德福等19人委員楊瓊瓔等16人委員馬文君等25人委員圖全吉等17人委員黃建斌等20人委員呂玉琳等16人委員盧憲一等17人委員鄭振淺等17人分別擬具《就業服務法部分條文修正草案》案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1961.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1983.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
事之二第二案審查委員萬美玲等36人委員徐宇珍等18人委員馬文君等20人委員邱若驊等16人分別擬具勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案即四案以上議程採綜合詢答好現在介紹我們在場的委員及列席的官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1993.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2001.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
陳昭芝委員林月琴委員盧憲毅委員林德福委員鄭振淺委員徐宇峥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2019.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2044.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好現在介紹今天出席的我們的官員我們勞動部部長何佩珊勞動力發展署署長蔡孟良職業安全衛生署署長周子蓮勞工保險局局長白立珍 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2046.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2049.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
勞動關係司司長王厚偉勞動保險司司長陳美女勞動福祉退休司司長謝倩倩勞動條件及就業平等司司長黃維琛勞動法務司司長傅惠芝 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2078.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2089.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
衛生福利部長期照顧師師長祝建方護理及健康照護師專門委員曾淑芬社會及家庭署組長游怡君 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2106.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2109.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
國民健康署檢任計政謝佩君內政部移民署移民事務署副署長曹固林國土管理署營建管理署科長曾勝峰經濟部產業發展署主任秘書林德森 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2134.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2158.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
鐘曉吉新創企業署主長黃欣怡經濟部人事處專門委員王煥炎行政院公共工程委員會技術處檢任技政陳奕昌農業部漁業署漁業人力組科長謝慎雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2163.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2169.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
原住民族委員會社會福利處副處長董敬芬財政部國庫署公股管理組副處長李信芬行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員廖玉琳國防部人事參謀次長是人事勤務處處長徐永祥 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2193.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2197.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
教育部人事處專門委員陳佩君國民及學權教育署主任古明哲權序部法規司副司長藍夏瑩行政院人事行政總處培訓考用處副處長林妍珍 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2223.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2235.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
現在請提案委員說明提案要址每位委員每按兩分鐘。現在先請我們一號我們林德福委員說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2247.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2271.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
謝謝主席我想今天針對本院的委員包括個人包括楊瓊瓔、馬文君、圖全吉、李玉玲還有鄭振銓包括張家俊、王育敏、王宏威等我想針對就業服務法第四十六條條文的修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2272.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2296.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
顧足聘外國人從事家庭看護工作被看護者之資格條件若年齡超過80歲以上得免經醫療機構之專業評估。我想為什麼本院有這麼多委員同時提出這樣的一個法案主要就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2297.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2321.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
因為已經步入高齡化的社會而且我們也看到很多過去為了聘僱這些外籍的康護工但是因為他確實是有那個需要結果最後就是透過仲介仲介就用各種的方式來做處理我認為這個對這些高齡者的家庭來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2327.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2350.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
講實在話是另外一種很嚴重的一個負擔那我們希望說透過修法讓這些高齡化社會我們很多長者能夠得到真正他要是需要外籍看護工來照顧的話能夠真正落實來這個彌補我們現在已經不如高齡化社會的一個時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2352.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2374.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為其實一個長者你要給他拚外籍康復工他不一定會接受為什麼?像我一個丈母娘90歲我說我老丈人走了要不要留他來幫你忙他說不要他留著我自己要全都自己來動動了以後他腦筋不會頓化不一定說你給他聘請他就會要 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2375.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2395.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
獎項獎項 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2396.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2398.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案 案 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2427.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2431.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
楊瓊瓔等25人擬具 «就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案件》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2455.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2471.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
主席好本席完全同意剛才林德福委員的提案不過巴士量表裡面如果只有80歲以上的話原住民族的話就沒有被滾動式的修正現在的政府很喜歡講滾動式的修正無論是預算無論是所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2473.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2475.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案。 »: |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2500.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2503.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好 請鄭正前委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2511.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2525.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
謝主席針對舊法第四十六條提案發言2018年台灣已經成為高齡社會到今年4月我國高齡人口達到436萬5984人佔18.65%預計明年就會超過20%邁向超高齡的社會其中80歲以上會有91萬2976人這是預計的統計數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2536.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2563.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
但因為我國勞動力短缺就是本國籍的看護能量有限而且費用高或者家庭主要照顧者負擔非常的沉重那嚴重影響生活品質那麼對於現行申請看護的門檻巴斯亮表示必須低於對應的標準獲得到醫師團隊的專業評量同意否則即使高齡到百歲也沒有辦法請看護那大部分的醫師的評量都比較嚴格那通過難度很高那麼社會其實對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2565.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2573.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案 案件, 其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 案件, 其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 案件, 其中一人擬具:「 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2588.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2590.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具〈就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2614.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2632.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那產業的部分有產業部分的一個聲音大家在去考量或在考量的時候我覺得這樣子說法其實可接受那對於說因為有刻板印象所以就是說就是去反對這樣一個狀態我覺得也不太妥適因為現在之所以會有這樣子覺得有外勞就會覺得這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2633.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2633.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
議員林德福 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2648.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2649.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
萬美玲委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2677.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2678.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好請我們徐宇貞委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2691.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2715.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
謝謝主席本期針對勞動基準法第五十條的條文修正草案提案說明台灣的生育率長期偏低近年來出生的人數也持續低於死亡的人數人口總數從108年達到2360萬人之後就開始下降到去年台灣的生育率已經是全球倒數第一可以說近年來都是生不如死的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2716.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2735.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這不僅反映人口結構的挑戰也是對國家未來的發展構成威脅因此本席在這一次的修法提出了為了順應國際的趨勢並真正的保護母嬰的身心的健康我們應該延長我國女性的勞工的產假日數具體來說我修訂勞動基準法第50條將女性的產假由現行的8週延長至12週 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2745.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2761.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這不僅有助於女性在生育後有充足的時間恢復身心也能更好的照顧心神而減少產後抑鬱的健康問題此外為了配合性別平等工作平等法第15條已經規定未滿三個月流產產假的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2762.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2786.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
故在本法明文規定未滿三個月留產假的工資給付這也體現了對女性在特殊情況下的關懷也能進一步的保障其基本的權益減輕這個經濟的壓力延長產假和明文規定留產假的工資給付將帶來多方面的積極影響首先這將提高女性的就業穩定性和工作的積極性 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2787.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2805.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
檢少因生育或流產而造成的職場歧視其次延長產價有助於新生兒的健康狀況促進母嬰親密的關係為新生兒的健康成長奠定良好的基礎最後這樣的政策調整也能夠提升家庭的生活質量 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2806.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2822.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
促進社會的和諧發展總結來說修正勞動基準法第五十條延長女性產假至十二週並明文規定未滿三個月留產假的公知己夫是保障勞動婦女的權益維護母嬰身心健康的必要措施謝謝接下來我們請璞全級委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2842.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2849.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
好大家好本席就提出之就業服務法部分條文修正草案進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2850.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2877.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
根據國發會的推估很快明年我們國內老年人口就要超過20%臺灣正式邁入超高齡社會階段超過80歲以上的老人也很快突破百萬人照顧服務需求恐急為現行就業服務法第46條申請外籍家庭看護需要通過巴士量表而民眾苦等巴士量表久矣 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2878.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2896.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
有位身患阿茲海默症的80歲老奶奶申請巴氏量表曠日費時而阿茲海默症當下明明就有不可逆之疾病還要被要求需要三年回到指定醫療場所再次進行鑑定以及重新評估狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2898.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2919.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
此外申請巴士量表也經常成為醫病衝突的導火線民眾因申請巴士量表不成毆打醫護人員等情勢也層出不窮因此本席提案修法放寬年滿80歲之被看護者聘僱外國人從事家庭看護工作得免經醫療機構之專業評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2923.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2940.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
雖然相關部會及民間團體指出53.1萬沒有失能的80歲以上老人免評估申請外籍看護將使移工淪為家庭幫傭此外本席要指出現代家庭社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2940.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2960.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
負擔家計者往往無力照顧家中長者此外本席的選區沿海偏鄉社區照顧醫療資源匱乏八十歲以上的老人在家無人照顧在家萬一跌倒受傷患病都是家庭不可承受之重 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2961.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2988.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
如果我們不在老人跌倒之前為他找到外籍看護難道要等到他跌倒致殘了才符合評估的標準才能找這個外籍看護嗎?請各部會的官員、社會各界有事者互以台北看天下的角度看待本次修法請回到被照顧者的立場來思考請把申請外籍看護的權利還給民眾謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2993.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2995.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
接下來我們請勞動部何部長就以上兩案並案說明時間10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3008.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3034.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
各位委員以及我們在場的記者女士先生朋友就這一個今天委員提出來的修法我們很感謝我們衛華人委員會再度邀請我由我來跟委員們所提出來的修法案來進行一個報告我先前已經有提供了書面的這樣子的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3035.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3038.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那麼我想在這邊再進行一些口頭的補充我們第一個我相當肯定委員們為這一個我們整個長照的這一個包括長者他的這個長照服務然後更一步精進來提出這樣一個修法案那麼我也在這裡要向各位委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3061.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3083.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
現行在去年10月之後行政院就已經推出了兩個做法第一個就是我們推出了除了巴士量表以外的多元認定方式那麼這個多元認定方式有三個方式第一個是你只要長照服務超過6個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3084.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3106.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
第二個你只要是輕度失智症者第三個你是中重度的身心障礙者那麼你都可以不用巴斯量表這個其實很多人現在已經開始這麼採用那麼我跟各位委員報告經過這半年來的實施目前使用多元認定的人數已經高達3.2萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3108.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3136.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那麼他跟這個巴士量表的服務兩個比起來已經超越了用使用巴士量表來申請的數字了大概是使用巴士量表大概48%那麼使用多元認定方式的有高達52%那麼然後在這52%裡面還有80歲以上的長者他幾乎都是使用多元認定方式高達70% |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3138.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3158.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
所以這個多元認定方式幾乎是已經相當有效的去某種程度我們不敢說全部克服了這個所謂巴士量表這一個申請的問題這樣子不過當然我們還是可以有跟委員再討論可以有更精進的空間那第二個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3160.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3188.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
在這個多元認定之外還有我們也評估了開始擬定了一個叫做所謂多元照顧陪伴服務施辦方案那這個是什麼東西就是我先前在備選的時候我有提過所謂的移工進入長照體系我精確來講這個是應該是叫做移工進入退化長者的家庭照顧服務那麼我這裡指的退化就是指他不是失能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3188.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3201.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3206.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3211.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那麼第一個好處就是說他這個是自費市場啦他也不會影響目前我們長照體系的本土就業的問題包括我們照服員就業的問題第二個就是說他是一個彈性化的服務因為有的時候我們健康的長者也不需要說24小時都綁在家裡這樣子的移工可能比如說給他4個鐘頭比如說一個半天或一個白天 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3231.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3239.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案件 及公務員擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件 及公務員擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件 及公務員擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案案件 及公務員擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案案件 及公務員擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案案件 及公務員擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條條文修正草案案件 及公務員擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3249.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3252.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那這是一個針對委員所關切的健康或亞健康的長者的陪伴服務發展出來的一個比較創新的模式那麼也在這裡跟委員報告我們會也非常願意向貴委員會來就這個方案來過做進行更深刻的我們來更詳細的報告這樣子讓委員來更瞭解那以上是目前我們準備的 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3271.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3293.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
因應這一個所謂80歲以上那個免保釋量表的這樣子的一個問題來跟委員所進行的目前現行方案的處理的報告那第二個就是這個關於勞基法的關於李玉琳委員這個55條救福法修正案的問題這個部分是免繳安定費啦那衝擊是會相當大啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3297.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3303.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
因為含家庭幫庸跟家庭照顧這個看護工都要免救安費的話那基本上這個數字相當龐大的那可能也會有比較不公平的問題那我們也是請委員會能夠慎思那第三個是勞基法第五十條修正案那麼當然我們也肯定委員們對這一個女性勞工他的這一個產後就的這一個照顧的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3324.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3341.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
不過我要跟委員們報告強調我們跟OECD所有的亞洲國家相比我們幾乎是都已經跟他們一致了所以我們的產價各種產價包括安胎價等等各方面的總和起來我們其實都已經接近這個國際水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3343.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3361.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
不過當然而且另外一個要提醒委員注意就是說這是由雇主付費啦那也要考量這種小微企業的承擔能力啦相對的這種小微企業它又是女性就業的大中市場那麼也很怕這樣子會造成對女性隱形的就業歧視障礙所以這一點也要拜託委員會能夠深思以上報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3370.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3398.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好謝謝部長有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入記錄刊登公報現在開始詢答做以下宣告本會委員詢答時間6加2分鐘列席委員4分鐘10點30分截止發言登記委員如有書面質詢請於三會前提出預期不受理暫定10點30分休息5分鐘依往例審查法案不處理臨時提案現在請登記第一位陳昭芝委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3405.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3406.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
謝謝主席 有請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3412.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3440.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
部長早有關印度移工MOU的事情我在3月的時候有跟前部長許部長有做過相關的討論當時我認為說我們好不容易有個新的來源國我希望能夠是不是有機會來做G2G就是政府對政府的一個國家國對國的執聘制度那當時許部長是有承諾會做這件事情那我不曉得何部長您對於這件事情您的看法您的態度是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3441.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3461.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
公務員報告,我們在台印的MOU裡面其實是雙軌,一個就是居土居,沒問題,我們會來努力發展,第二個當然還是因為你要考慮現行啦,現行這一個就是來源國,尤其印度本身他願不願意居土居,所以我們還是保留一個仲介的這樣的承接的模式這樣子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3462.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3473.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我麻煩部長看一下我這張投影片的右邊這個目前簽訂的是雙軌制但是仲介制仍然存在我們可以看一下過去十年的雙軌制下執聘不到1%0.28、0.4%簡直就是雙軌制下就是仲介制獨大 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3482.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3496.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
等於就是仲介制那相比其他國家韓國做了很久日本也都開始跟進那現在因為各國的這個爭搶的移工還是存在嘛那這樣的話我們如果這樣來做我們為了開放這個印度勞工我們會有競爭力嗎那您認為職聘您如果預估雙軌制您的職聘的比例會是什麼呢部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3504.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3519.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
嗯 就是我要強調第一個當然我們國內的職聘要有檢討的空間啊就像委員們關心的我們職聘中心的那個效率對等等這些我們都應該要更精進不過第二個我就是在強調你要考慮來源國因為這個是相對的問題因為印度平安心講 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3525.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3538.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
他們在這方面他發展沒有比我們更先進所以他的那個職聘我們對他要他願意職聘我們才能職聘是這樣子國對國我是覺得我們還是要積極一點因為未來這個我想臺美貿易協定的那個障礙也是會存在的就想如果能夠做職聘就是第一個當然減少這個這個仲介對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3548.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3550.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具 «就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3565.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3590.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那我們回到今天的這個主題有關這個巴士量表的這個部分那一定年齡以上這個我們本席就是完全的支持那我們本黨的這個主席在競選總統的時候也有提出這樣的一個政見那我要提的是另外一個狀況剛剛其實有一位委員也提到有很多家庭他家裡是有體力比較衰弱的這個長者他不一定有一個特定的診斷但是這些人他需要照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3591.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3605.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
因為他如果發生一些小意外我們都知道很多老人家都是就是一個小意外譬如受傷跌倒之後後來整個情況是這個每下愈況就是整個這個身體都走下坡了那與其到這樣的狀況其實在這個階段他是需要有人照顧的所謂的預防重於治療 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3610.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3631.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那不但就是說讓這個不要發生這些小意外那或是造成後來的後遺症那老實說對於後續的這個健保醫療的支出也是有幫助的這個部分部長您的想法如何呢就是希望能夠有家庭幫庸開放給這些有需求的老弱家庭的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3632.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3647.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
嗯,就是家庭包容的開放齁,因為他的那個體系喔,跟那個看護工也不太一樣。家庭包容是完全符合家庭裡面的服務啦齁。那他的就業安費也比較高,目前是五千塊啦。那所以他的門檻是比較高的。那 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3649.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3656.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我剛剛提的齁所謂的這一個對亞健康與健康長子的多元陪伴服務其實就是為了解決這個問題因為其實這樣的話齁他可以這樣對那是自費市場自費市場可是這樣只可以讓他的價格親民啦他價格是會比較親民的啦那因為那比起家庭包容 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3674.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3689.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
其實他所付出的成本 我知道我們現在很多就是在源頭先做預防嘛後續其實那個支出其實有時候是更大的我還是請部長能夠來好好研議這個部分好那謝謝部長我現在現在是不是請這個長照司的司長謝謝部長請回座好請祝司長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3701.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3722.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
市長,麻煩你先記一下這張標題,這個刊在《天下》雜誌,列揚下長者想提早回家,卻算違規。長照2.0碼別制的一個防弊的困境。我想先請問,市長你知道現在有遇到就是所謂長照2.0實務上有遇到哪些困境嗎?您有沒有掌握? |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3724.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3750.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我不曉得,因為看這樣的一個標題我不是那麼清楚,不過我猜測因為我們之前曾經有針對我們長照的日照中心有去規範一個日照中心必須要服務的時段要半日達到4小時那全日達到8小時的這個規定可是事實上那個是在規範這個服務提供單位你的服務不能壓縮到時間很短 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3752.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3767.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那對於這個家裡面有這個子女要上班的來不及這個回家接長輩就是說等日照中醫有可能縮短服務時間那可能很早早的就把長輩送回家是為了這個我接下來有四種形態的這個困境讓市長 那就市長可以一併再來做一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3773.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3800.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
背景是這樣那其實長輩如果提前回家是沒有問題的沒有所謂的違規跟市長報告這是第一個我想我有四種困境讓市長第一個困境就是說這是真實發生的事情就是說無法當下回應被照顧者的需求譬如說有一個這個居婦人他遇過服務的長輩他本來核准的是A07就是說要協助洗澡但是因為天氣冷長輩不想下床那他進行在這個床上這個擦澡 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3803.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3808.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
但是他如果聽從長輩的這個要求的話他會就很兩難因為這個價格不一樣核准的碼別不一樣那他會被祭奠但是長輩如果他不下床其實他也無法勉強他這是就是說我知道當初是為了防避或是方式甚至有些在聯會居福源做更多的事情但是事實上就會遇到這種沒有辦法回應當下的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3828.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3829.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案 案件中的負責人員並沒有被核准這個項目。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3849.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3856.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那為了修改一個馬別我想市長也了解居服員要通知督導員督導員要通知各管事各管事都很忙的要當下有時間回應那他要在兩個小時內這個服務執行時間如果錯過了那就沒有辦法所以後來這個居服員他就還是說要幫這個案主他們來備餐 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3869.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3891.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
最糟糕的是因為他沒有取得核可證所以第一個他無法申報第二個如果他改他選購其他的項目他等於是偽造文書啦所以修改馬別的行政程序老實說是複雜冗長這是第二種形態的困境讓市長瞭解第三種困境就是說馬別的認定標準不一舉例來說VA13叫陪同外出 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3892.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3896.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那現在各個縣市各個這個主管就認定不一樣那各層級又有不同的行政裁量權導致第一線的人他完全沒有辦法適從請問市長你覺得什麼叫陪同外出如果我在這邊舉例請問陪同外出是從現在我們在群選樓八樓那是到群選樓一樓呢還是在立法院大門口呢還是要走到對面的這個兒童醫院的這個門口才算呢那對個案來說從家裡到大門口這是一樓中庭呢還是要走到社區大門呢還是要對面巷口 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3921.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3949.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這個認定這個督導員跟這個各管事他們認定都不一樣這樣對第一線的工作人員真的是無所適從那次我還有第四種困境第四種困境就是軍賜軍實化的這個制度非常的僵硬忽略不同的需求當然當時是為了管理方便或是為了防弊所以用軍賜軍實也就是每週平均是用平均時間來分配但是我要告訴司長第一個個案剛出院的時候是非常的黃金期 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3950.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3971.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
從初月的時候那個時候需要密集的照顧因為才能夠好好的就恢復但是在目前的制度下他是不允許後面的這個額度他必須平均的分攤在每一週但事實上他在前幾週可能最需要的就是照顧這是第一種狀況那第二個家務的服務是規定半小時或一小時但是很多案主家庭他們其實很髒亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3973.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3997.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
然後甚至有義臭味等等我想很多人都了解那如果可以一開始先用團體的人數就是說先把這個居家環境做一個改善那我想不論是對這個長者本身他感覺被關懷被尊重然後覺得舒適對後來的居扶員他其實也有比較理想的這個工作環境也不用說讓大家都在一個老實說甚至有尿砂味的環境工作這樣也比較友善 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3999.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4017.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那再回到剛剛我看的第一張那個地方就是說阿嬤外出啦那長照2.0的陪伴項目是以30分鐘為單位但是那天是很熱的所以天下雜誌照了那張照片阿嬤不到30分鐘想回家那照專呢就是照顧管理專員他說時間沒到啊他懷疑這個居服員想要偷懶啊所以現在怎麼辦呢所以市長我剛剛提出了四種困境那是不是能夠市長就簡單的回應一下謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4027.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4049.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
好 謝謝委員提出了我們長照第一線確實有一些狀況不是制度使然而有可能是因為相關的一些人為的關係那我在這邊也特別說明像你覺得第一種案例這種樣態本來核定是屬於要要沐浴要到浴室去沐浴後來改成用插藻 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4050.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4069.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那這個部分本來就是在A個管他在跟案家討論的時候其實也要因應個案的一個需求他核定的時候不應該完全只核定到浴室洗澡這個碼別那事實上只要在一剛開始照顧計畫在核定的時候把這些可能考量到需要的碼別都能夠考量進去的話就不會有發生剛剛您提到的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4074.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4083.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
對包括說沒有核定備餐所以家裡突然發生需要備餐就不被允許這個都是剛剛提的在這一樣態裡面所以在照顧計劃擬定的過程其實案家要充分的把他們家的一個狀況一定要說出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4091.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4116.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那A個館才有辦法跟案家討論到底哪些碼別是你有可能會用到的那剛剛前面提到有一些樣態比如說他真的後來他就是沒有核定然後他只是在床上擦澡那申報的時候他就不能申報沐浴服務他申報擦澡是沒有問題的也不會被記點那個是一個狀況是是是所以這個概念上大概就是服務提供單位也必須了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4117.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4130.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
他沒有做這件事情是不能申報,否則會被記點。謝謝市長,不過我還在提醒這個碼別的更動要四個層級,那大家認定不一,這還是很大的問題,請市長回去看怎麼整理一下。好,謝謝。好,謝謝陳昭志委員。接下來我們請林月琴委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4145.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4147.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
麻煩請我們的何部長。請何部長。因為我來自兒少團體,在過往的服務經驗裡邊,如果有照顧需求的話,這樣對家庭造成非常大的壓力,然後也是比較是年輕人對於他在支應家庭的時候是一大負擔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4167.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4188.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那可是現在是全球缺工的狀況都在搶工那大家直接比較衝擊的是移工來台的人數本來就否則不會再去跟印度簽那個MOU所以國內的產業一直都是要求僱主要放寬我們的聘僱的標準那家庭看護工的需求也是這樣不過在這種現實底下 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4189.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4215.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我們國內的移工的政策常涉及到你如果要放寬資格的話真的要格外的小心為什麼因為避免會擠壓到更多更需要移工的產業跟家庭所以就想問部長因為重度需求家庭也一直在來拜會本席這邊一直在申訴說他們對於移工比較喜歡去照顧輕度有自主能力的人所以就會一直沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4216.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4231.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4242.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4247.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案 案件及其中一項委員會議及其中一項委員會議及其中一項委員會議及其中一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4262.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4277.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
目前用一個所謂80歲就來放的話,而不做任何的這樣子的一個區別的話,他確實很可能會造成重度失能者被排擠,然後當然就是轉到輕度失能這邊子比較好顧嘛,比較好賺這樣子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4279.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4294.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
所以我剛剛才強調我們現在的做法是希望能夠把它進行一個區別化就剛剛一塊是用多元認定另外一塊是用陪伴照顧服務然後希望這兩邊都能夠更精進這樣子那多元認定的方式當然貴委員會所提出來的修正動議不 提出來的修正案我們也都很重視是 因為為什麼因為80歲以上像去看資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4305.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4308.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案件 及其中一條條文修正草案案件及其中一條條文修正草案案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4326.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4352.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
他本來事實上是獨立性很強可是相對的這樣子照顧會不會造成依賴跟獨立性被剝奪甚至從數據來看80歲以上的老人68%也是自認健康甚至80歲以上的老人那無衰弱的大概34.25%那輕度衰弱的35.33%那表示大概有70%所以對健康的老人除了陪伴之外不需要移工照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4353.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4367.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
會不會是造成只派去做額外的工作就像我婆婆的看護工來之前她事實上是在被聘用的時候她是在小吃店為什麼她基本上事實上是說被 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4368.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4370.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件件件件件件件 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4384.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4384.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
議員林德福 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4416.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4426.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
當然這個所謂的假看護然後真的打工這確實在民間是有耳聞可是這個覺得是違法的因為我說連我婆婆的耳 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4429.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4446.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那個外傭他在他之前的工作就是……是,這是違法的。我要明確指出這是違法的。當然去年我們常獲得23件。對。算很低耶。可是你看報紙上寫的都還算是……它常常可能是合併性的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4447.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4462.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
所以他又有照顧 也要聲帶一提啦齁因為目前所有的移工類別當中只有家庭看護工跟幫傭不適用勞基法齁那而勞動部一直也沒有針對我們的移工跟僱主落落相殘的問題提出解方齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4463.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4490.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那所以民間團體他們的表示也是說家庭看護工開放的門檻越放寬好像對於移工越不利那勞動部你對這個質疑你怎麼回應是就是因為這樣所以我們比較謹慎那麼我剛剛提的這個移工這個進入這個家庭照顧服務多元陪伴施辦方案其實就是為了這個就是因為我們希望能夠發展一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4494.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4518.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
並不是完全的政府聘僱啦,而是由NGO監管下的。至少他就會有勞保對不對?對,然後他由仲介來聘,然後仲介來派。事實上僱主是仲介啦,不是那個案家。這樣案家也比較輕鬆,不必負僱主責任。然後他也可以給這個移工勞基法跟勞保的保障這樣,而有彈性化的服務,甚至一對多的服務這樣子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4519.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4547.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
好 謝謝部長接下來是不是請我們的長照師的助師長目前我們去年10月13號我們開始用CNS在做評估所以請問一下目前長照照專的人力只有2000多位相當吃緊可是這個問題關係到長照人力是否會遭到新制度的排擠所以請衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4548.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4549.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
aigns. |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4549.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4568.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
使用長照服務六個月以後,我們的聘僱移工是否需要重新做CNS評估?這一直搭,連我民間團體都不太清楚這種狀況,因為2000個照專,那目前有400萬的老人,所以想問一下,目前是不是還要去做重新做評估,如果使用到六個月以後? |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4571.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4599.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
使用6個月以後就是他本來就已經在長照體系的服務對象所以他的CMS的等級這個資料是清楚的那我們目前的CMS的評估基本上是一年負評一次所以要申請如果要走這個多元評估免評的這一塊他基本上是只要把他的那個相關有服務紀錄因為連續要6個月使用照顧服務類的服務那我再問一個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4599.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4624.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
家庭看護工聘僱方式一直都有調整一定會牽動到長照所以除了人力資源的排擠甚至對於長照的使用量也會造成影響所以現在長照的需求等級是二到八級新制度是不是會腐爛到無論需求等級只要使用長照服務達六個月以上就可以銜接移工的聘僱 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4625.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4650.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我們去年推出跟勞動部一起合作推出了多元免貧那個概念是長照服務他必須要使用所謂的B碼照顧服務類的那這個部分持續六個月每個月都有用這樣才可以符合多元免貧的機制長照服務事實上是國家提供的應對政策也要針對於我們因為高齡化的來臨 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4651.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4664.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
可是現在如果提80歲以上都去聘僱所謂的移工對於我們長照會不會影響崩盤接下使用量就反而會變低了?你的評估是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4666.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4691.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這塊確實我們在我們今天的書面報告其實有提到如果以80歲以上我們目前國家是91萬多人那我們手上確實有掌握他是屬於失能的這部分目前只佔41%所以換句話說大概53萬多人其實並不進入到我們所謂的失能的這樣的一個領域裡面那所以他基本是生活可以治理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4692.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4719.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那剛剛也不同的委員都有提到就是說其實我們我們即使是這個我們國家或者是世界的這些相關的國家都強調的是希望要長輩能夠減少依賴能夠訓練自我照顧那我們其實也擔心我們國人過往引進移工有時候會變成就是比較茶來伸手飯來張口那其實有可能靠著這樣的依賴 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4720.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4748.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
所以也擔心說這樣子的能力會退化得更快所以我們的想法還是期待是說如果真的是用家庭看護工這個名義要引進的還是要否這個真的有照顧需求的大概是我們的想法是這樣好 謝謝市長所以本席提出來希望能夠事實上是85歲以上而且是獨居無家人者那這個事實上是我們問民間團體尤其是老人福利團體們他們認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4750.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4771.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
這個可能是在照顧上的一個破口。是不是有這個85歲以上有限定獨居家人者來作為一個聘僱的需求。以上謝謝。接下來我們請邱振鈞委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4779.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4805.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
主席好,我們還是要請我們的何部長好,請何部長委員好部長你好今天進入這個主題之前我想請教您您說勞保其實沒有危機只有政府處理不當才會產生危機那您的意思是要怎麼樣是用撥補到不會破產 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4806.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4831.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
才用這種方式就是沒有危機是嗎我是指的就是說我有解釋過這個撥補它本身就是一個改革啦就是改革的一環那麼因為這個撥補它本身就是所謂我們過去在勞保條例在2017年的時候我們曾經勞保條例修正案進來立院雖然沒有被三讀通甚至連一讀都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4832.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4860.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
對那可是裡面有一條政府付最終支付責任入法這是一個國家負擔最終的勞保支付責任就是撥補就是他的實踐所以他就是改革部長現在就是說上台之後您的責任就是撥補讓他不破產就是您的目的這是我的任務之一任務嘛所以在也就是說在我們賴清德總統任內不會引爆推到下面去就算了就過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4861.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4880.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我說把這個責任往後推就對了嗎?是吧?我們任內一定竭盡所能的來讓勞保財務穩定。因為我看到啦,就是說我們每年這樣撥補1200億根本就是杯水車薪。我們勞保財務精算的報告在 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4881.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4897.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
勞保將在2028年破產,2039年以後將達到給付的高峰,那每年超過一兆,並且連續30年,所以你每年撥一千兩百億根本就是不夠的,那部長這邊有沒有什麼好的辦法呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4897.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4916.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
跟委員報告其實每年撥補一千兩百億在我們的評估裡面是相當足夠喔因為喔就是我要跟您報告整個撥補的歷史從2020年開始本來只有兩百億在很多委員的提案在我們當年勞保年改條例的修正所以你是從幾年開始撥的? |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4917.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4921.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
2020我們從到去年高達1200億馬英九任內他的負債是7.3兆那蔡英文政府執政了8年現在負債13兆也就是說你從2020年開始補這4年來他的負債並沒有減少還是持續的成長不是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4939.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4957.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那是...委員其實那個負債...我們現在用數字說話嘛,好不好?是是是是...委員我們是看政府的實際作為啦我指的就是說在...當然我們2013年嘛政府時代他並沒有拿出撥補的行為啦而2020年我們有拿出來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4961.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4990.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我的意思當時是指的就是說當然這個政府處理的態度不一樣會導致勞工的信心不一樣我有看到你的幾個方式就是說您說勞保多元的改革包括延後的退休增加中高齡的就業讓家庭看護工納保等等這些都是您的想法嘛是吧那只是開源的方式而已那你有預計過這些能夠增加多少人多少的收入嗎讓多少人用納保 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4991.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5002.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
委員,這些開源的方式目前都還在評估中。好,那你評估要多久?目前我盡量來評估,好嗎?那一個禮拜可以給我嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5006.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5007.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
老闆現在的水位是創新高,真的不要擔心,沒有那麼嚴重。 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5029.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5055.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我們在想這個我們就業服務法第46條修正案那11個排審案中也有兩件共同提案的四個連署案本系列主張在46條中應定增訂80歲以上長者或70至79歲患有癌症第二期以上的僱主聘僱外籍外國的看護工免得醫療機構的得免經過醫療機構的評估就是免八十兩表的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5057.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5080.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
部長剛剛我有聽到林委員在講就是說你們怕因為他80歲以後如果免80量表會排擠到我們移工的這個醫院是嗎?剛剛林委員的意思是說會排擠重度失能者就是說因為移工也會選他就是說選比較好照顧的人他的意思是這樣子對 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5081.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5107.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
但是我個人這樣講就是當初提到這個案子的時候我發現這個我們台灣的老百姓幾乎都是非常贊成的我要講的一個重點就是說我們台灣現在是少子化的社會雖然他的長輩他因為可能他可能還是可以照顧自己但是可能因為他就一個人在家那小孩子呢他要為了工作到出外那誰照顧他 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5108.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5127.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
對不對?誰照顧他?所以這個部分我當然認為說你要讓年輕人好好的在外面打拼那老人家我們政府有責任把他照顧好這是我們的初衷啦這是我們的初衷所以部長你怎麼看這樣的事情?對,委員我開頭就講了我還是非常肯定委員們這一次的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5128.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5136.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這真的是苦民所苦的精神所以我們也在委員的這樣的指示底下所以我就是強調說我們盡量來做那麼我們也發展出兩種模式一個就多元認定免貧另外一個就是移工來進入這個家庭照顧服務這樣的兩種方式來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5153.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5171.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
對阿因為我看你們的如果說像你們評估老人家可能就是下肢衰弱的狀況然後比較可能自己可以照顧自己但是呢他又還沒有達到申請外勞的那個標準那我們現在因為我們講說80歲以上為什麼我會這樣講呢如果我們現在不讓他就是還沒有達到申請外勞看護那個等級的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5181.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5198.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那會造成說他就要請這個陪伴嘛 對不對家庭幫庸這種狀況就是一般的陪伴需求用這種方式嘛但是80歲以上你認為80歲以上我們的幫庸的我們是用點數申請的嗎點數你是講家庭幫庸吧對那是點數但是你80歲以上就有16點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5208.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5230.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
沒有,好像我記得只有6個人,所以他根本就沒辦法請。我想部長是不是可以針對這個部分,如果你們認為說這個免巴士量表這邊有困難還是怎麼樣,是不是可以大家來做一個平衡,然後調整,解決我們現在真的需要的人,真的他真的是非常需要,不要因為這樣的一個政策, |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5231.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5255.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
打到他們因為你如果讓他去請一般的家庭幫傭就是臺灣的看護我記得一天是2800塊那時候我有調查過2800塊一個月就要七八萬塊一般人根本是受不了的那他只好年輕的只好乾脆放棄工作來照顧老人家那這樣對我們整個社會是真的是沒有幫助好不好好希望部長針對這個事情大家都用心一點幫我們的年輕人這個減輕他們的負擔好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5263.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5270.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
委員謝謝邱正晶委員的發言接下來我們請我們召委王育明委員謝謝主席我們是不是有請何部長有請部長委員好部長好部長今天本席安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5291.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5305.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案 議員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 議員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 議員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 議員楊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 議員楊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案 議員楊瓔等26人擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5318.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5339.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
都有提出自己的政見跟看法。包括賴清德總統,他說:「臺灣社會的確有照顧服務的需求,巴士量表已經產生問題,到了不得不改的情況。」這句話,何部長,你之前有接收到這樣的訊息嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5342.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5368.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
是我想當時確實那總統他曾經非常重視這個問題沒有錯對那當選之後應該更重視吧當然當然他現在握有權力了那過去巴士量表所引發這一些不必要的爭議甚至讓這個醫師遭受到暴力攻擊我覺得這些家屬應該也不是蓄意的但是是在情急之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5368.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5370.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案案件及其中一項委員會議及其中一項委員會議及其中一項委員會議及其中一項委員會議及其中一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5398.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5401.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
而這樣的一個當時由侯友宜總統候選人所提出來的政見其實真的是廣闊好評在基省裡面很多民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5425.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5432.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
是非常支持的那這個就代表說這樣的需求其實是非常的迫切所以我們才排了這樣的一個議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5433.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5459.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
那這個我請問部長你是贊成還是是反對?委員我非常肯定你們提案的這樣子的一個精神這我這完全當然是肯定的那只是當然我就是剛剛跟你們跟貴會有報告過就是所以在去年之後馬上就發展出兩個模式一個就是多元認定另外一個就移工 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5460.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5482.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
進入這個家庭照顧的這樣子的一個示範方案。那麼我們希望當然今天委員的提案也可以讓我們有更精進的思考啦。那我們如何一起看是不是能夠在您的提案的這樣子的一個能夠去照顧去能夠支持您的提案然後也也能夠這個兼顧不過你還是不容諱言啦因為他會衝擊到整個長照體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5489.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5512.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
因為然後還有包括就現行的這樣的一個管制讓一個私能或非私能的這樣的一個認定界限他會是一個還是一個衝擊因為你把用80歲去放他裡面私能跟非私能的人他這個不容易區分幾乎是那你私能的優先不行嗎所以說他現在只是廢除80兩表這個提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5519.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5535.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
的精神是廢除八十兩票,但回到申請需求的時候,如果你的外籍看護工有限的話,他可以有優先順序啊,從重度到這個輕度,到他有一般這個他只是滿八十歲,他的健康狀況可能還好的, |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5538.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5544.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
當你來源是不夠的時候,你政策上你可以去調整這個重點。這個議案並沒有要處理你那個優先選舉的問題,它只是讓80歲以上不要再舟車勞頓,不用再讓那麼老的老人家還要奔波醫院,只是為了取得這樣的一個證明。所以我覺得有時候是不能混為一談,包括其實你提到的你的多元方式我也很贊成。 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5561.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5567.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案案件及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一� |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5575.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5592.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
也是有這樣子的人所以當你去採取一個放寬的時候不代表會嚴重衝擊到你的長照體系我覺得不是這樣子混為一談在政府的政策工具上面你還是可以去設計我瞭解當然我們多元認定的方式是不是能夠再更精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5592.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5611.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
是啊 是是是 這個我想我們可以一起來討論好不好對啊 你既然可以多元認定 那取消80歲以上的巴士量表 這也不是什麼問題啊這是符合你多元認定上的精神不是嗎 你多元認定不是就是不要用唯一的標準來看嗎其實巴士量表是一個醫學認定的標準啊 我們也必須跟衛福部一起討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5612.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5623.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
是 那就趕快討論吧因為禮拜三我們會就進入主條就是要來討論這樣的一個議案我覺得有時候我們的政策也要與時俱進 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5624.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5643.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
就是要去考量到真正的需求那這個不只是對於80歲以上老人我們就是免這個巴士量表的評估就不用讓他週車勞頓再跑到醫院去那一方面其實讓家裡的這些照顧者特別是年輕人知道說如果當他家裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5643.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5645.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
關於這些年輕人來講,他得到了一線升級。 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5665.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5690.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
有的人不用辭職只是為了照顧家裡的老人因為他會擔心那他可以有一個選擇是我可以花錢去請外籍看護工讓他的爸爸媽媽可以得到一個比較好的照顧他上班的時候可以比較安心我覺得這個為什麼是80歲以上因為現行的我們的平均餘命你知道男生是多少嗎男性不到80歲79的樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5693.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5703.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
大概是77.7欸女性才是84.3所以你說這個是一個很寬鬆的標準嗎?不是喔其實很多的男性 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5703.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5730.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
平均餘命在不到80歲的他其實也使用不到這個政策所以我認為這樣的一個政策我真的希望這個新政府剛上任正當好好思考你的思考角度你必須是多元的你必須從這個一般民眾他現在生活當中的壓力跟痛苦來思考然後讓他們有一個機會可以來做這件事好不好那另外一個除了這個女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5733.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5762.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
的這個產價的問題我們來看一下女性產價的問題坦白講我擔任立委到現在很多委員一提再提都沒有辦法突破但是我們看看為什麼我們鄰近的國家日本南韓中國大陸甚至印度印尼他們都可以做到這樣子但是我們就是產價要延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5764.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5772.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
這件事情其實已經提了很久那勞動部也一直是反對可不可以講反對真正的理由是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5773.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5796.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
公主反對就是怕對女性在就就是這個產後女性齁就業其實會有隱性的歧視啦其實真的就怕這個啦那我要跟委員報告我們那個產價當然現在目前表面看是8週嘛可是包括安胎價包括產檢價合併起來有心部分喔這個部分合併就已經都15週了 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5798.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5817.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
對,所以導動部是覺得已經太多了嗎?不是太多,是絕對不輸這個其他啞鈴國家啦。所以你們還是很堅持?不能改?我們就要謹慎評估,我們願意來評估好不好?我們願意來評估。好啊,我覺得本席擔任第八屆立委的時候, |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5818.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5819.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
王一鳴委員的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5850.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5850.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
盧憲伊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5862.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5862.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
李卓人議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5883.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5903.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
大概是200塊日本大概是210塊我是希望說有沒有一個機制可以比照軍公教如果是逐年調的話是不是有這個機會您講的是時薪嗎?當然我們基本工資已經調8年了那今年最低工資元年對183塊嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5905.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5920.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5929.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5938.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條文修正草案案件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5957.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5962.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案 案件及其中一項擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 案件及其中一項擬具:「 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5982.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5999.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
對 我也完全這個非常敬佩你們提案的精神那您剛剛講的那個週車勞頓其實這個我們也透過各種行政措施來改良比如現在其實已經發展到居家醫療可以到家裡到宅評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6002.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6018.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那第二個我們準備...我想知道現在的申請比例,成功的居家醫療嗎?這恐怕...我是覺得他的困難度還是很高所以我是希望能夠減變當然是如果是居家醫療的醫生可以開也OK可是你要廣為推行還有包括說像未來可不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6024.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6039.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我們就到鄰居的社區診所讓他開我覺得可能用這種行政措施的改良會比我們用整個大地區的衛生所如果可以開就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6039.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6039.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
獲得獎項 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6056.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6080.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
限制嘛。比如說我們現在是爭取重度、中度而已。那輕度跟陪伴的話就給我們國人的看護工。這樣會不會就可以避免他們的一個逃跑。比如說我怎麼說呢?如果現在的他們的薪資是兩萬多塊。那如果現在按照一般薪資是一百八十三塊。如果這樣算的話,他們應該要拿十三萬的。對啊。那如果說你可以把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6080.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6092.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十六條條條文修正草案案件事宜及衛生環境委員會第四十 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6103.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6121.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
因為我常常看到逃跑率很高的是怎麼樣?因為我在訪寮地區服務,有的時候一個移工來,他連一句國語都不會聽,更何況是台語。來了以後,他到了那個家裡才發現他要照顧兩個人,就是照顧一個比較輕度做輪椅的阿公,然後臥床的阿嬤。 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6122.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6122.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6140.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6154.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案 案件及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一項委員會計劃及其中一� |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6165.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6180.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
因此這樣開會排擠重度失能者的被照顧的需求你知道照顧民營住民的外籍移工的逃跑率很低嗎?我幾乎沒有看過逃跑的移工 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6181.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6181.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
請問委員您覺得這個原因是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6211.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6223.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我認為如果就這個方面來講,你們也可以去研究為什麼在照顧原住民的移工他們就比較不容易逃跑。可以把它引用在我們照顧一般家庭這樣好不好?最後我要請園民會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6241.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6266.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
護士長,我想問的就是說我們那個草案有跟我反映就是說他們要去職業訓練比如說大客車駕駛或者是大貨車駕駛的時候沒有班別,那如果有班別的時候會覺得說很像那個他會考量叫做什麼媒合的就業率來審核是不是?你大概可以說明一下嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6268.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6282.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
我們每年的那個職業訓練的班別都會在我們的網站上公告。然後如果我們族人有需要的話就可以來報名。我知道他的經費來源是哪裡。 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6283.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6300.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我們的經衛來源有的是從我們的公益彩券回饋金那為什麼不是從勞動部勞動部也有我們也有跟勞動部合作就是說相關的他們說常常是因為他們被評比的時候不及格所以會被扣錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6302.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6325.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
老公部的部分嗎?那這個部分我們再了解一下。那我們本身也是都有開。我說承載單位可能因為他的每合的一個就業的機率,如果說沒有到達一定的百分比的話,他會把他原本應該給的那個費用是會打折扣的,是有這個情形?對,就是如果說我們本來是補助40萬,然後他整個人數啊, |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6327.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6328.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6352.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6377.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
好等一下林淑芬委員質詢結束休息10分鐘現在請圖全級委員發言好謝謝主席那先請我們長照司司長好不好好請祝司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6386.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6412.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
委員好 市長 因為今天也是剛好討論我們《就業服務法第四十六條條款》那有剛好我們長照師 市長也在這邊我請問一下 那我們因為為了強化我們長照的業務我們有針對長期照顧服務人員繼續教育課程統計 也是你們俗稱的長照小卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6413.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6438.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那這個長照小卡在106年我們有公佈長照服務人員訓練認證繼續教育及登錄辦法那他這個長照小卡你們有規定6年要更新一次然後6年內要完成120個積分對不對是那長照小卡的更新請問他包括我們長期照顧機構內的外籍照護人員嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6441.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6464.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
當然包括包括嘛那我這邊有一個資料來顯示根據我們衛福部長照師機構外及照護人員他們長照小卡的更新率因為有很多機構來跟我們反映就是到今年的6月30號我們看一下到今年的6月30號我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6466.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6486.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
更新認證率這個人數到今年六月底大概只有40個人大概是11%多那可是未完成的有88%有307人然後再到今年年底如果今年年底到期的有25個人更新認證有2433人 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6491.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6507.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
沒有更新認證那如果以我們這樣子來看喔那整個認證更新率不到3%那我想了解一下那如果這些他沒有更新的話到時候會面臨什麼樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6509.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6523.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
跟委員報告其實本來在機構裡面的外籍看護這邊的長照人依法它其實是要每年20小時那這個也是延續之前老人福利法的一個規範一路下來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6525.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6547.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那依據常服法這邊一樣延續就是每年20小時可是因為過去的109年的COVID的關係所以我們也知道說機構裡面的這些外籍這個照顧的人力每年20小時對他們來講因為COVID的關係所以他沒有辦法完成所以其實我們是在110年有在跟這些機構的業者這邊討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6549.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6574.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那特別放寬放寬到今年年底之前等於是去年年底之前112年年底之前我們可以讓他6年比照其他的長照人員6年120那現在最主要就是我們現在面臨到這個問題我們看一下你到今年年底你看目前都不到3%那如果到真的年底有這麼多人2000多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6577.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6588.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6598.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6599.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
那現階段我們其實在委員之前有協商的會議的時候其實我們也是已經請這個就像我們過往希望他們來辦課的他們目前一直沒有辦所以我們現在會處理讓他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6614.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6616.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6642.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6660.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
而且他好像也是不能去做一些其他工作外,像幫佣、掃廁所等等的事情。對,因為這個是依據就是就業服務法第四十六條進來,就是要做依舊的財務。對,所以我們現在就擔心,那如果照這樣子的情況,他如果碰到惡質的僱主, |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6661.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6689.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
那一定想辦法去終止他的契約那我們擔心就會有逃逸移工的問題發生因為像這逃逸移工問題真的非常嚴重那當然如果有良心的僱主繼續用他但是他並沒有經過這個認證他就不能做真的專業長照的服務那就變成閒置的人力他只能去折折棉被整理一些床周邊的事物那變成我們僱主的成本就上升那 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6690.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6699.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我想說這一部分可能會面臨到很嚴重的問題。不知道我們針對我們這一部分衛福部有沒有什麼解決的方法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6700.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6705.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
就是跟委員說明從上次的那個協調會之後其實我們已經請這些那個聯合會和機構的這些聯合會這邊來出面來做辦訓的動作那目前規劃出來大概會優先培訓400名這個機構裡面的這個分數積分不夠的這個對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6721.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6746.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那針對這個其實也有很多的機構有跟我們反映他們面臨這個問題其實他們也很恐慌啦然後他們也提出有反映澄清幾個狀況就是說我們這個線下的課程數量不足那針對這部分我們去了解其實衛福部對於這線下課程的實際的數量也並沒有完全在掌握而且這些外籍的造福員他要外出上課 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6748.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6751.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具 «就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6770.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6786.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這個多國語言這個設計沒有去做到我們看得到勞動部都有做到為什麼衛福部做不到那難怪他這個語言障礙讓他要考試而且考試還用中文去考他要怎麼去得通過這個認證是不是造成很多很多的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6787.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6809.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
各位委員說明是勞動部的那個多國語言的課程事實上我們也整個真的勞動部同意已經把那個課程都放在我們的長照2.0的數位學習平台上所以基本上是都有的多國語言都有那至於我們目前其實跟這些這個服務提供單位這邊的合作就是請他們辦直播視訊那直播視訊是等同實體課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6812.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6826.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
好 我這邊就是幾點建議啦也希望趕快我們衛福部這邊看趕快怎麼去解決我們現在面臨我是說長照小卡是不是有機會再給它更新延期還有我們這個課程應該優化線上課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6829.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6840.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
讓他多國語言還有也希望他們有建議是不是這個線下的課程能夠建構導師團的制度納入通譯專責師之人力然後在這個機構巡迴上課也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6844.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6867.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
我們衛福部針對這幾個部分來研議看看因為我們擔心馬上到這個問題我們現在真的是最擔心逃逸外勞到時候他沒有通過這個認證又不能在機構好好的工作我們擔心逃逸外勞的數量會直線上升所以針對這部分希望我們衛福部針對這部分來好好的研究改善一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6868.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6891.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
好 那個優化課程我們會來努力 那延長 因為已經延過一年了 大概沒有辦法再延了好 沒關係 你們討論 因為我們不希望說 又面臨這個逃逸外勞 這個嚴重逃逸外勞的問題好 那謝謝我們司長 那針對我們今天討論巴士量表的部分 我請問一下 我們之前 之前我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6893.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6913.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
有關於我們在之前針對八四亮表的部分八月29號那時候在選舉的時候那個侯友宜總統參選人就有提出廢除八十歲以上八四亮表這個政見然後到第二天的隔天的時候我們衛福部也表達不反對然後我們也問過那 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6915.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6931.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
衛福部是說如果勞動部放寬到80歲以上的民眾皆可申請衛福部也不反對那是不是可以請問一下我們何部長針對這部分因為這之前勞動部的回應不然我們何部長針對巴士量表放寬到80歲以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6934.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6956.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
免申請的部分您有什麼看法?我非常尊重委員們的提案那也很肯定可是就是說我們已經當時就發展三項多元認定方式所以其實已經有效的取代了巴士量表它已經高達72%的80歲以上老人都用三項多元認定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6958.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6985.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那我們現在了解就是說當初我們放出新三類勞動部說收益有60萬人當初我們衛福部他是說放寬的部分不會衝擊本國服務的發展怎麼後來這個放寬到80歲以後除了這新三類你說前面新三類收益60人不會衝擊那為什麼後來放寬到全面80歲以上又說會衝擊本國的服務發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6988.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6998.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
委員那是因為那個現在放的那三大多元認定三項多元認定是失能者啊你如果是只放80歲他就會擴及健康跟亞健康還有72萬人喔到時候你會有52萬的勞工移工在進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7005.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7031.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那個當然一定會衝擊到本國的就業。對,我是希望,因為我們剛剛在提案說明的時候也有講,也希望我們勞動部跟衛福部,因為現在這個社會很多年輕人都在創業,都在就業,然後也有很多家裡的長輩,其實都沒有人照顧,而且現在醫療很進步,都八九十歲,當然他可能身體還可以,但是說實在話我們一直認為說這外籍看護, |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7031.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7040.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
是不是能夠在健康的時候就去照顧他不要等到跌倒失能之後才符合這個巴士量表的標準變成說 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7042.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7061.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
受傷自殘以後他發生沒有辦法治理以後才達到巴士量表標準才符合申請是不是在這一部分年輕人在外面創業就業家裡長輩沒有人照顧應該在健康的時候照顧他的日常生活起居避免他發生意外 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7062.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7090.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
甚至有些老人家有老人病什麼時候隨時高血壓心臟病等等跌倒不知道應該在健康的時候照顧他所以我們認為說我們衛福部勞動部針對這一部分為了全民的福祉希望還全於民希望針對這一部分我們希望能夠好好的來研議照顧我們80歲以上的長輩真的不要等到他們跌倒失能之後我們才符合八十年表去照顧他 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7092.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7096.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
好,這部分再請我們勞動部衛福部再幫我們多爭取。好,謝謝,謝謝。好,謝謝圖全齊委員。接下來我們請林淑芬委員質詢。呃,主席,各位大家午安喔,適不適合請我們何部長。好,請何部長。委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7120.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7148.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
部長 這個需與曾委員所提的勞基法第五十條的修正草案新增一星期到五日的產假由僱主給新的規定你們的修法意見裡面提到說適用勞基法的女性勞工也可以改依勞工請假規則請普通傷病假一年內沒有超過30日部分工資則辦發給那為僱主不得因這個勞工產假請普通傷病假而扣發其全勤那你們後來又講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7150.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7174.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
為什麼你們反對呢?因為所增加的薪資費用整體雖有限但個別小型微型的企業仍有相當負擔為避免婦女受到隱性的就業歧視影響其工作權益建議審慎評估但是我要在這裡跟你講啊何部長條平司這種答覆真的是歧視我們女性你竟然強調說所增加的薪資費用整體來講有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7176.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7189.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
卻又說避免女性受到隱性的就業歧視,打著怕你被歧視而訂出歧視的政策。 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7190.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7206.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那因為懷孕生產流產的都是女性在承擔半薪的普通雙病假大家都有男女老少通通都有可是我們今天講的是我們唯獨我們女性才會有的女性流產 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7207.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7229.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
您要我們跟大家都有的普通雙病假一樣要扣自己的半薪病假這顯然不公平你都知道女性的生小孩是國家整體勞動力的再生產最重要的而在今天女性為了整體勞動力的再生產而生出來我們說死有過死有出來大家就給他產假死沒出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7234.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7238.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
在這種狀況裏面我是要跟你講這個才是上個月我跟這個許明春部長質詢過然後他答應本席說他也認同而且要進行研議的政策今天你在這裡馬上打臉我打臉許明春然後反對我要再跟你分享一個就是說紐西蘭 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7258.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7267.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
紐西蘭在2021年修法通過流產的女性跟她的伴侶可以請三天的有薪的商駕 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7269.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7294.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我們就不要講說這個價別的名稱啊流產的商價但給予有薪價有薪價不是叫我們請自己的扣自己的餒是看見我們女性流產她不只是生理上而且在心理上都需要時間調適這個就是真正的母性保護你不該只是看見生產的美好 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7294.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7323.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
然後都沒有看到我們女人對於流產的失去心理上的調適的問題所以在這裡啊部長有心的流產假你說啊這個性供法已經有了性供法給假但沒有給薪啊然後基法要給薪未滿三個月兩個月以上沒有給薪啊你都說這個錢才一點點而已為什麼要打著反歧視然後定出歧視的反對呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7328.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7352.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
委員其實我知道您先前一直有在為這件事情在努力那我也很肯定那我並沒有打臉我剛剛也說了我們會來評估那比較重點是這樣定了要有用總點是今天的提案的委員的提案全部都是雇主給啦都是要雇主給事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7353.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7368.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
這部分顧主能不能做得到,這確實是一件要評估的事情。而我會覺得,如果真的要...那你同意,顯然你這樣說法是你同意給價給錢。現在是錢是顧主給還是這個基金給,是這樣子的意思吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7369.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7371.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
其實重點會是在這裡,所以這個方向是對的,錢公共化處理我覺得你要看到我們女性為國家的勞動力在生產這個部分,那我現在就要講說大家還要放寬聘僱的門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7388.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7413.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
救福法第46條的修正條文希望以年齡作為聘僱外籍看護的條件但是我們都知道外籍看護他的提供的是24小時的照顧但是大家所值的理由大概就是說需要有人陪伴需要有人看著他但是提這個他們預估這些委員提案大概預估是要增加多少的外籍人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7415.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7427.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
這樣的話會增加到五十二萬喔五十二萬 那我要問一個問題是請問有沒有遠遠不覺得移工輸出國願意輸出這麼大量的移工然後到台灣來因為大家都覺得通通放寬很好如果有遠遠不覺得外籍移工可以來台灣我也贊成請問有沒有這是一個有考慮的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7443.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7463.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
不是啦我在問你因為現實政策上移工輸入有沒有移工輸出國有沒有這麼大量的勞動力可以輸出?其實現在全球都在搶工啦真的是還蠻困難的為什麼我要講這個是因為80歲以上的長者生活起居可能需要旁人協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7464.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7486.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
但是是不是需要24小時的看護就有待商榷了那我們現在以年齡劃分恐怕會排擠到真正照顧者的被看需要照顧的被看護者讓現在挑工的尤其是重症的缺乏照顧人力的問題更惡劣惡化就大家都覺得我要去照顧輕症的啊這個好看護的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7493.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7508.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
重症的真正需要24小時的如果移工進來聽到你是重度殘障重度失能然後在那裡躺24小時你要不分日夜照顧的我想他們就不想顧了吧不想顧會怎麼樣保證?他們不想顧會怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7511.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7537.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
是啊 所以委員這就是我們擔心的 完結啊 完結了喔 勞僱雙方吵架就會就容易言語肢體 然後就說這個威脅要轉換僱主了 所以你知道現在僱主尤其是重度失能的僱主身心俱疲啊 有移工也是很身心俱疲 因為大家要去顧好顧的 阿拉伯就是要去工廠賺更多錢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7540.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7559.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
所以我在講說大家都要當好人,大家都要當這個容易的都可以來申請看護,那我們要有一個前提,要有一個前提是移工必須要有源源不絕的移工,可是有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7561.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7577.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
那我現在在跟你分享就是說衛福部111年進行老人狀況生活調查報告80歲以上的人口不需要他人協助的有51.93%需要他人協助及項目數比例是48.07%其中 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7580.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7603.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
累計四個項目,就是說它的這個需要需求性比較高的是38%,所以以年齡作為聘僱外籍看護的資格,在現行外籍看護還有仲介也在調工的媒合的狀況裡面,恐怕這樣下去會排擠真正需要24小時重症照顧的需求。 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7604.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7609.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
但是我雖然是這麼說你這樣子80歲就通通可以申請然後呢會排擠到重症可是你也不能否定啊輕度中度的照顧需求也存在那這些人要怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7622.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7640.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
這就是長照2.0我們不是在講長照嗎長照2.0要邁向3.0但是仍然趕不上國人的照顧需求所以這就衛福部的責任就來了你在外籍移工上你沒有全部開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7641.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7658.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
然後你在這裡你又做得不好在長照上又做得不好所以大家都會覺得渴望透過鬆綁外籍移工看護作為解決問題的方案嘛但照顧觀念應該以自力去取代服事嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7659.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7678.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
所以在還沒有完全達到失能以前你就讓這些老人家輕度的中度的就導入24小時的外籍看護反而會有可能會加速退化不利於健康老化可是那衛福部你要做什麼衛福部衛福部3.0衛福部誰來衛福部3.0在哪裡啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7685.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7700.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
一有照顧需求就想到直接聘僱外勞外籍醫工外籍看護24小時的照顧又便宜又方便但這個對沒有完全失能的老人延緩老化不是一件好事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7701.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7718.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
所以這也是我們長照2.0一直在推的日照中心拖老服務最核心的服務可是呢我們現在大家優先想到就一對一24小時的外籍看護優先與長照政策以至於我們要改變社會照顧的觀念真的是很難啦但我現在要問衛福部啦我們總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7723.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7741.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
賴總統當初提出了長照3.0的政見比如說要新增居家或社區晚間到宅照顧夜間緊急服務建立24小時的重度失能者的支持服務還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7743.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7745.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具具具具具具具具具具具具具具具具具 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7773.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7791.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
衛福部你現在坐到哪裡?謝謝委員我們事實上從蔡總統她的卸任8年執政其實兩份的民調都是民眾滿意度最高的我現在不再問你這個問題你答非所問我在問的是賴總統提出的長照3.0我講的是很具體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7796.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7811.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
局家或社區的晚間到宅照顧、夜間緊急服務、建立24小時的重度失能者的支持服務。我不要談我剛才講那麼多,就談這三項好了。這三項,你們的規劃是什麼時候要開始做? |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7812.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7830.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
是,各位委員也報告,剛剛其實你也提到,就是因為國人聘請移工,其實是民國78年就開始,所以遠遠早於國家推動長照政策之前,所以這個部分怎麼樣能夠翻轉國人的觀念,而不是所有的長輩都要24小時。那我們在講的是長照啦,我沒有跟你談這個移工服務啦,政策啦,我現在跟你講長照。 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7840.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7866.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那所以因為這個會關聯因為要帶到24小時目前在長照政策是沒有辦法用一對一到宅去提供24小時的照顧服務這個是賴總統的政見來講新增我們要叫你24小時他在講居家或社區的晚間到宅照顧夜間緊急服務24小時的支持服務又不是叫你整天看著他支持服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7868.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7876.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
你們都沒有認真的看待賴總統的這個長照3.0喔?有沒有做準備?因為2.0是到115年所以我們大概就是115年很快餒今天113年餒你現在沒有準備115年就要憑空就掉下來嗎?所以我們才說為什麼這麼多委員要提案要直接這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7898.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7907.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
因為你的長照先 制度先接不來啊配套沒有來啊所以大家才會說乾脆大家都聘外勞外籍看護就好了啊好 那請回主席我說最後一個重整啦齁外界不斷的倡議要鬆綁聘僱外籍看護門檻但我要講說部長政府更應該關心這個照顧品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7924.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7939.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
在沒有辦法確實檢核來台前90個小時的照顧訓練那來台後的補充訓練實體課程的成效非常差僱主對於看護技術的滿意度七成八 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7940.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7961.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
所以我們在這裡一直在講說第一個 可望競速填補照顧人力的需求下還有法規沒有強制的這個規定下 你的這個事後的補充訓練當然提升照顧品質的成效是有限的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7963.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7973.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這樣要怎麼做?你的實體課程你知道上得多爛嗎?那是長照服務法裡面的規定我是在講外籍看護來台的訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7976.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7981.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我再講的是拼顧外籍看護來台他必須要照顧訓練外國受訓了90小時怎麼訓練我們檢核不出來啦但是來台以後要補充訓練你們實體課還有線上課你知道你們實體課開的多差嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7993.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8011.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
你們開課量能一百班以上五百人以上但實體課程2022年關成功開辦一班一百班以上的準備只成功開一班六個人參訓到宅訓練則是2020以後沒有任何人申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8014.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8037.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我們的意思是說,其實長照不是給他聘僱一個外籍看護來照顧,啊外籍看護來,你們就沒有管了,當然長照品質是衛福部了但是呢,我們外籍看護這個雇傭關係不好,有時候是來自於照顧品質不好,雇主不滿意嘛那現在在這種狀況裡面,我們也把長照的喘息服務計畫也納入了 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8039.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8044.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
長照cover到我們的外籍看護讓他一年有幾天的喘息天數你知道嗎52天那是漸漸增加52天等於是國家幫他買單休息日啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8054.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8068.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
國家幫他們買單休息日但是你不可以政府提供的經費讓你喘息結果其實僱主政府幫你買單了然後你對於這個照顧品質僱主也是獲利者啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8069.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8087.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
也是應該要啊所以你要不要讓這個移工到外面來上課你也是交給僱主決定啊僱主當然是算了最好讓他不要請假最好讓他一直上班比較好大家都知道外籍看護工每個月有放假的比例的是多少你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8088.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8088.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8107.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8125.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
你們說的他們想要賺加班費,其實還有家中無替代照顧人力,那不放假的話,僱主發的加班費大概都有九成五有發,但是是很少很少很少的,其實簡單來講是僱主也不想要他放。 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8126.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8139.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
告主也不想要他放,即便我們有長照喘息服務了,告主也懶得申請啦。52天,告主也不想申請啦,我就是要這一個一直用一直用,全年365天都無休,我也不需要你給我喘息,雖然政府有喘息。所以我跟你講就是說,其實問題還蠻嚴重的,照顧的品質啦,還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8152.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8163.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
關乎者的勞動休息也很重要啦這個真的是問題重重好謝謝林委員那跟著一下我們先休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8555.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8558.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
好我們繼續開會接下來我們請陳穎委員資訊呃麻煩請勞動呃我們何部長好請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8576.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8598.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
委員好部長好就這一次的就服法修法有一個重點在於這個巴氏量表要不要作為評估果仁健康照顧聘用外勞的需求標準那本席有幾個問題要請教那首先是這個問題涉及到醫療專業它對於衛福部的報告你們都有仔細的看過嗎有 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8601.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8612.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
衛福部有說超過80歲的國人大約有91萬人其中重症有健康照顧的比例是41.7%也就是說總共大約有531,902人沒有照顧的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8619.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8635.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那一旦取消了巴士量表的評估是不是有可能超過80歲的人都有資格都可以申請這個外籍勞工的來看護那這樣的情況如果是真的那產生的衝擊影響我不曉得你們勞動部有沒有評估過 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8637.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8659.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
所以我們對這個部分我們當然是很審慎啦對所以一定有一定的衝擊嘛是是是那在過去常常有聽到這個外籍勞工就是假結婚的這個事情發生那一旦就是說如果不需要針對被照顧者的這個健康狀況評估會不會就是反而那種 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8659.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8674.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案 案件中,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 案件中,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 案件中,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 案件中,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 案件中,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案 案件中,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8679.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8682.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
外籍看護工的救安基金每個月是多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8692.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8717.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
兩千好那這個外籍幫傭的是多少五千哇這個有做功課今天有準備的不錯那我們來看一下簡報這個外籍看護的人數有236000人那這個外籍幫傭僅僅只有2000人所以這個社福外社福外勞可以停留最多14年來計算的話呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8717.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8728.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
外籍看護14年,僱主要交給勞動部一共336,000元照顧小孩居多的外籍幫傭84萬元兩種職類的救安基金費 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8732.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8737.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8749.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8772.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
也就是即便符合這個外籍幫傭的申請在這個差額的趨勢上也不少人會想盡辦法就是把它改成申請外籍看護所以那個政府在這個救安基金費的這個設計上變成是有變相的這種誘導民眾去違法之嫌 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8773.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8802.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
而80歲免貧可申請外勞的話將來呢這種就是說違法聘僱的情形反而就是說我們預估啦其實會有增無減所以勞動部到時候這種事情發生的時候你們有能力去處理嗎是委員這也是我們擔心的事情啊就是您剛剛所講的80歲以上免貧的話有53萬的這種健康會員健康人口對那會是一個潛在的需要引進的數量嘛對不對有可能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8803.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8823.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那這個部分的話當然所以我們目前我們沒有要這麼的還是要很慎重的我們目前是用多元認定增加多元認定的項目來評估私能這邊引進的非私能的部分我們也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8825.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8846.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
這我們有另外一塊我剛剛所講的移工引進這一個長照服務這樣子我們今天換個角度來想這個外籍幫傭的人數既然不多那即便每個月少繳3000元其實你們回去自己算一算真的不多那似乎對於這個整個的這個救安基金的水庫也影響不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8847.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8871.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
所以我想要請教就是說我們是否今天我要替我們這個國家這個少子化的這個危機我們都可以來盡一點努力啦就是我們如果將這個社福外籍勞工的救安基金費用把它調整一致不知道部長的看法如何?委員你是指說家庭幫用下調嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8873.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8880.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8890.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8914.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
但是因為我剛剛前面我講的是沒錯有很多就因為外籍看護比較便宜比較好請然後他們甚至很多都變成去做幫用的事了這個其實當然也不這是絕對也是違法的啦啊事實上您講的是一個目前有確實有存在現象這個我承認不過呢是不是家庭幫用這一塊的費用要下調其他人數是很少啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8915.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8917.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
當時一個設計師想要用這個來當門檻,讓大家少用啦,平安心講,因為家庭幫庸這一塊我們並不鼓勵啦。我們過去有請了一位生了,當時他來的時候, |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8936.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8954.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8955.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8972.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
此事相當嚴重,我今天是把這樣的建議拋出來,我也沒有要部長說立即,如果部長有一些疑慮,那也沒關係,你們回去好好的細算,因為畢竟這樣子的這個我剛剛有提了這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8974.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8990.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
獎勵費用自外籍勞工開放以來已經這麼久都沒有調整過了而且過了這麼多年很多的情形是有改變的包括我們少子化的這個情況也越來越嚴重也包括之前來的那一位媽媽 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8991.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9016.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
議員楊瓊瓊等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件 已申到第七個小孩,我不知道會不會有第八個跑出來。」議員楊瓊瓊等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件 已申到第七個小孩,我不知道會不會有第八個跑出來。」議員楊瓊瓊等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件 已申到第七個小孩,我不知道會不會有第八個跑出來。」議員楊瓊瓊等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案案件 已申到第七個小孩,我不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9020.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9042.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
在過去本席也有聽到說民眾反映巴士分太嚴格的意見。那我要請問就是說我們什麼時候開始使用這個巴士量表?三十年前吧。三十年前。對。那這段期間巴士量表有沒有改版?我們用的是三十年前還是幾年前的版本還是這個是最新的版本? |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9044.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9069.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
這是國際標準,所以我們現在才發展多元認定就是這樣。好啦,那國際如果沒有進步的時候我們也可以做先驅啊。可是那個國際沒辦法,那是醫學上的認定。好,反正我也點出這一點,那其實就是說當初這個定下的這個80分的依據是怎麼來的?是哪一年決定的? |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9071.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9099.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
來 我們設計人在這裡設計的人跟委員報告那個當初是我們跟衛福部齁本來是從他的這個失能程度是從一個所謂的完全依賴那一般完全依賴的概念過去就是巴士量20分以下但是因為這個坦白講標準太嚴格所以後來就放寬放寬到一個所謂嚴重依賴目前是用巴士量35分這個標準那現行就是依照這個標準那所以你是哪一年訂的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9100.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9119.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
這個大概在90年那個時候。有這麼晚嗎?我查到的是81年耶。沒有沒有,一開始跟委員八十一年我們沒有採用八十兩條。這樣齁,90年到現在也是很久啦。所以當年我們國人的健康問題,就是說當年的健康問題跟現在有一樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9120.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9137.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
應該也不太一樣吧?其實確實現在其實也整個國內的一個高齡化在整個情況其實有點改變。對,起碼這個80歲的這個平均餘命是一定不一樣的啦。那所以我們的標準理論上也應該就是要定期檢討,甚至要滾動式的修正嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9139.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9163.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
勞動部跟衛福部其實可以一起合作去洽詢相關的比如說醫學會那針對這個量表的評估認定在這個巴士量表的基礎上可以去改良修訂自己的評估方法那或者是說把這個評估的這個把這個標準的分數下修例如說下修到70分或者是更低等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9164.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9187.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
這樣總比你一下子全部拿掉要好啦好大家就是各退一步嘛我們找一個比較合理的一個方式那最後我想就針對這個外籍勞工引進的意義提出我的看法啦在這個日本日本的這個高齡化是比我們早蠻多的那我所知道他們這個外勞的這個引進跟台灣有所不同首先是由這個專業的這個長照機構來引進的 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9190.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9203.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
工作地點在機構裡面。進來之前他們需要經過語言的學習,還有照顧技巧跟專業知識的教育訓練。我順便提到,如果未來是原住民的可能還要加一個文化敏感度。 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9208.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9226.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
兩者都是要及格之後才可以拿到工作許可證。表現良好的一段時間可以入籍。這個就是我所知道的日本的情況。我不曉得勞動部針對這些你們也應該有去日本考察過吧?應該有吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9228.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9245.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
之前有收集議題因為我記得邱P也帶隊都有衛福部的勞動部我沒有印象衛福部是有隨行所以已經外籍勞工從事健康看護那涉及的這個層面還蠻廣的像勞動部、衛福部跟甚至內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9246.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9266.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我是希望說我們各部會可以一起來努力好好的商定討論那最後我要特別謝謝部長就是在於我上次質詢有關於這個勞動檢查報告要和勞保局還有法人連線的部分部長很睿智的當下有裁示了 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9267.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9291.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
對於你們部裡面就是專屬裡面有立即著手準備的同仁們那本席也希望說部長你可以給他們予以這個肯定跟鼓勵那但是對於極少數我不曉得什麼原因還堅持不公開連線的高階主管呢我也請部長可以留意好好去了解到底中間有什麼貓膩好不好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9296.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9298.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
接下來我們請鄭天才委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9324.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9344.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
主席、各位委員,有請部長。好,請何部長。委員好。部長好。今天審查這個《就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案》很多的版本。是。我們先看這個《就業服務法第四十六條》。 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9347.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9358.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
第十款未因應國家重要建設工程或經濟社會發展需要,經中央主管機關指定之工作。 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9363.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9383.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
這個112年3月6號這個我們看這個勞動部跨國勞動力政策協商諮詢小組第35次會議記錄這個當時的陳昭吉委員昭吉的名人蔡富昭吉人孟良代理這個主持這個會議這裡面在112年3月6號的這個會議裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9391.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9415.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
特別提到為了因應原則同意營造業引進營造移工採階段性先行開放總額8000名並視實施執行期可增加到1.5萬名的一個外籍勞工然後合佩率合佩比例為30%合計最高不得超過40% |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9418.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9430.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
這樣的一個就是當然跟這個相關就業服務法46條授權訂定的這個工作資格及審查標準你們也做了修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9431.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9450.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
然後相關的這些本來93年1月13號的這個標準是總金額在新台幣兩萬元以上你們也把它修正為總金額新台幣一億元剛剛本來是兩億現在一億元以上就可以了大大的放寬了 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9452.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9464.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
好,重點是說這個這幾年來這8年多來修正了18次修正了18次非常的頻繁那我們看這個這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9468.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9486.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我的重點就是說民國93年1月13號定定發布這個《外國人從事就業服務法第四十六條第一項第八款至第十一款工作資格及審查標準》一開始的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9487.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9511.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
外國人受第十七條僱主聘僱從事營造工作僱主以取得初次招募許可後每禁用原住民一人得申請引進外國人兩人。那我們現在這幾年這個營造業確實切工沒有錯但是原住民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9512.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9523.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
事業率還是很高。原住民跟非原住民的事業率還是很高。原住民還是很高。所以但是111年4月30號 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9527.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9549.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
你們把這個條文刪除了沒有原住民的保障的條款所以這個部分對原住民主而言要引進外籍勞工從事營造業我們不反對我們也支持但是我們的就業的機會為什麼要刪除所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9550.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9578.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我也曾經在去年質詢了前任的部長,我也質詢了。勞動部部長,我特別質詢是不是能夠回覆這個條文。部長的回答,喜民村部長的回答,這個部分我們再來評估演繹,能夠回覆這個條文。 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9580.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9594.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
但是回覆了結果什麼都沒有提到寫了一大堆都沒有提到回覆還是不回覆都沒有提到就業服務法二十四條明定 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9596.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9622.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
要保障原住民的就業因為原住民的失業率一直都很高所以這個部分要保障但是現在把這個原來的保障條款刪除了本席根據盧憲一我有連署盧憲一的版本他的版本這裡特別提到但這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9624.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9646.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
這個第四十六條有針列但書但前項第九款是家庭康復工其被康復者即有原住民身份者其評估與認定方式應會同衛生福利部及原住民組委員會定制這個你們知此重要的重要的被你們刪除的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9647.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9666.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我提出修正動議所以增加第四十六條的這一款增加最後一項營造業僱主一項第十款規定聘僱外國人以取得招募許可後每禁用原住民一人 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9667.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9690.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
或者是向原住民族,如果他沒有辦法禁用原住民,他要願意繳綜合發展基金的貸金,得先請引進外國人兩人。所以這個不然會比原來的條文,被刪除的條文還好。所以請勞動部能夠支持。以上,可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9691.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9708.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
委員我們這個要評估一下喔因為就46條是規範就醫標準資格的跟這個很內涵這個法制上可能有點沒有問題法制上我寫法律的沒有問題老公也好謝謝好謝謝鄭天才委員接下來我們請洪孟楷委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9720.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9722.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
何佩珊部長新竹兩名消防員不幸罹難事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9737.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9760.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
離難之前曾喊說求救,但是到最後40分鐘之後尋獲喪命。過去到現在其實消防員一直有提到公安、職安跟主公會三大訴求。主公會之前我們稍微有排相關的一個修法,我今天比較想要更重要的是要focus在職安的部分。 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9761.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9777.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
因為這兩名的消防員一個年資19年一位年資14年其實都是非常算是訓練有數的消防員也都才30多歲你我來講我們的年齡都是他們的哥哥姐姐但他們就不幸離開了 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9778.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9806.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
所以到現在來講近10年有45位消防員弟兄已經離開那麼危險的一個事件但是我們一直在講說警消訴求應該要用職安法來納入因為職安法的規定僱主的職災預防責任國家的勞檢制度還有僱主依法防止職災發生的課則都是有所必要的到目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9807.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9833.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我想請教部長您的態度是什麼委員指的是職安法納入消防員這部分這部分因為牽涉到那個法體系的問題那當然因為這牽涉到內政部消防署所以我們還有包括考試院因為這個整個的因為消防員屬於公務人員所以我們原先的這個規劃是因為公務員不是用職安法 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9834.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9853.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
所以說政府是公務員的雇主那沒有防止職業災害或是保障工作者健康的時候沒有任何罰則公務員頂多寄過或是調職但是我們想請教過去到現在消防員殉職的案件消防單位裡面有哪一個主管因為這樣而被懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9856.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9883.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
所以沒有啊 那這也是消防員為什麼會覺得是說他的工作風險度比任何一個行業都來的高但是他的保障卻是最低的對 所以他我了解是內政部消防法已經把職業安全衛生專章送到行政院應該很快就會送立院應該要在那部分規範會更實際啦 有保障而且能實際能運作這樣子你現在看到的是公務人員的安全及衛生辦法是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9884.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9901.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
不是,消防法裡面徵定職業安全衛生專章給消防員,它就是為消防員這個常常有這樣子的意外而徵定的,在民洋大火之後就開始規劃了。但是到目前為止還是沒有看到,但我們又看到了,所以我們其實說實在話,這就是跟時間賽跑嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9905.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9927.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
第一是跟時間賽跑第二是要給消防員足夠的一個保障以及第三真的不要再發生說今天攻進明天忘記的事件那我現在請教的是身為職業安全主管機關部長上一任的部長許明春有承諾說他不會反對公務人員安全衛生辦法保障不要低於職業安全衛生法 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9928.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9956.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那一樣道理如果說未來消防員納入執安法或是另外修法也應該要有跟執安法一樣等同規範的保障您認同嗎當然那個所以我們在消防法職業安全衛生專章我們也有參與我們跟消防組一起會的所以會跟現在的執安法一樣的標準態度包括說本席剛有提到的雇主職災的預防責任國家勞檢的制度以及衛醫法防止職災發生的課則 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9957.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9987.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
都應該要加強對 我們兩單位有會他們消防署有參照我們職安署的這個規定然後然後來看是不是來那本席最後想請教什麼時間點會送出行政院我們來幫忙push好嗎因為其實不是我們的業務啦是內政部可是沒關係政府一體的我們也來幫忙然後跟行政院反映請行政院趕快送立院這樣子因為本席要確定的就是勞動部部長的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9987.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10011.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
當然我也會去詢問內政部部長甚至本期在之後的總諮詢也會要求行政院長表態但最重要的是時間不等人尤其是這件事情已經是過去10年消防員也好警察同仁也好也都認為說勢在必行公安、職安以及主公會三大訴求至少在職安的部分上面我們都要加緊腳步謝謝委員謝謝部長好謝謝洪茉凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10018.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10018.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
王紅薇委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10031.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10048.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
部長好 今天其實我們是要聚焦在就是針對這個巴士良表可不可以開放80歲以上就可以免巴士良表那我剛才看你跟其他委員的答詢基本上你們是不支持的但是我想請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10051.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10077.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
賴清德總統他在選舉的時候針對八十兩表他的政見是依照年齡身心障礙重大傷病罕見疾病癌症中風等不同類別建立多元標準那請問一下那麼你們不支持八十歲以上免八十兩表那請問一下那麼對於總統的政見落實未來八十兩表要怎麼樣的去改善調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10078.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10090.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
委員我們不是不是不支持其實我非常的支持我非常肯定這個提案的精神那可是跟委員報告就是說所以我們現在用多元認定來增進那你要怎麼樣多元認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10094.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10119.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
因我來看每次多元認定就是多錢認定啊我們看到很多有錢的這個家庭裡面他們的這個看護可能非常多但是呢我們一些小老百姓真的就被八十兩表真的是弄到真的都快要抓狂所以你不要跟我講空的那請問一下所謂的多元認定你們未來怎麼樣改善嘛趕快講趕快做好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10119.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10137.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
委員已經在做了,去年10月有新增三項多人認證,第一個是長照服務6個月,第二個是輕度失智的,第三個是重度增長啊。好這是新的證件啊,你不要跟我倒退路啊,我們現在是新的總統啊,你是新的部長啊,那幹嘛還要你上任呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10138.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10157.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
這也是當時賴總統他在重視之後才提出的。所以你的意思是說就是做到去年10月那個新的政策之後就沒有了?啊不,我們可以再精進。這個當然你拜…好那怎麼做?趕快告訴我怎麼做。我們可以再精進啦,就是還有什麼可以放寬的喔。好哪一項?哪一項會放寬?我們會來 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10159.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10162.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我們會來評估來處理好嗎然後可以給我們一個授權非常失望欸你現在空話一堆我現在問你要怎麼樣精進法然後你告訴我去年十月的那幹嘛還要新的部長呢對不對你到現在都沒有任何的具體的東西啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10177.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10198.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
然後我們接著來看那麼事實上我們一直在講因為用這個家庭看護工很多的家庭非常需要尤其一些就是一些這個有失能者的這個家庭那更是非常辛苦其實呢好幾次我們都有召開這樣的公聽會很多的失能家來往前面 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10200.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10227.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
當中對於移工、移戰士的服務認為他們會造成很多的勞資爭議那麼希望能夠廢除移工、移戰士服務因為移工、移戰士服務他落實了之後有他的薪金移工很多因為他移到了這種失能者的家庭他就要求他要移出他就要換僱主那麼而且你也可以看到很多失能者家庭他們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10228.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10252.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
告請這些看護工事實上是非常非常痛苦我們來看下一頁這個也是當時我們在這個公聽會的時候有一位失能者賴先生說因為他找了外籍看護之後呢不停的就是惡意的這個拉他呀而且造成了他事實上韌帶拉傷等等簡直是是被虐待喔那他真的覺得說如果政府今天是這樣的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10253.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10272.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
他寧願希望政府開放安樂死那時候我們講他講完之後我們現場很多人都哽咽落淚在前兩天不是也發生一個新聞嗎就是外籍看護工他事實上在虐待一個也是重度智能者的孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10273.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10290.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
讓他冬天裡面他不能穿衣服然後把他弄到櫃子裡面然後把他蓋被子以後就對他拳打腳踢如果不是家裡有監視器然後他的父母根本不知道他的孩子是這樣被虐待 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10291.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10311.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
所以這些失能者他們找這個看護工非常非常的痛苦但是我們的政府永遠都是這樣我們的外籍看護有人權但是我們的雇主沒有人權我想請問一下像那樣子的一個重度智能的這些兒童在家裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10312.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10329.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
外籍看護這樣的被虐待然後像這樣的一個賴先生他真的是覺得說有安樂死他就去安樂死了那為什麼我們的政府沒有辦法去照顧我們自己的人民然後一天到晚說這外籍看護必須要有人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10331.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10354.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
這個所謂一戰式服務最後呢很多的雇主跟我們反映就是呢他的一個就是你要告訴他所有的權益最後呢到這種失能者家庭他就離開那反而造成我們很多失能者家庭的他們的痛苦跟失能者家庭的負擔所以我想請問一下我們移工一戰式的父母有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10355.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10377.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
來做一個調整,不要變成是一個在那邊他受訓了之後還要雇主付錢然後再告訴他要怎麼樣來最後一到雇主家庭他就可以申請移出這個部分是不是能夠對我們自己本身的這些雇主尤其失能者雇主你們有一點點的人權保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10378.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10387.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
是,我了解。這個當然一開始是基於提升移工人權而設計的一個方式啦。那我們的故事有沒有人權呢?對對,當然當然。就是說您這一個推詢的這一個重點我們來檢討好不好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10393.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10415.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
就是說他未來他未來是他他其實不能隨便轉出捏就是現在是不行的所以他沒有隨便轉出的問題我覺得應該是那個移工訓練啦他的顯然是照顧訓練技巧不足很多的僱主已經啊已經提出很久了就是希望能夠廢除那個一站式服務那你說你們要檢討大概要花多少時間檢討我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10420.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10439.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
三個月來評估檢討好不好好不好三個月好不好三個月給您一個這個回覆給我們一個一件事因為這些雇主為這個事實在是非常非常痛苦好不好好好好謝謝好謝謝王宏威委員接下來我們請楊耀委員繼續謝謝主席請下何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10450.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10473.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
委員國際勞工組織指出在工作中生育保護有兩個目的第一個就是我們要保護母體跟胎兒的健康另外一個就是提供他就業跟收入的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10474.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10496.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
也就是說不受解雇和歧視並且可以保證她產後重返工作權利我們就所有受孕婦女的保障大概就必須要朝這兩個目的來做落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10502.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10503.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
一般來講,國際勞工組織建議的產價最少是18週。我們現在的產價是多少?8週。 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10526.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10540.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我大概可以稍微更正一下,國際公約應該是規定14週。那我們現在,我們的整個產價合併起來。那14週是不是就是跟現在的修法版本是一樣的?對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10544.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10563.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
委員這次的修法是12週啦是12週啊多數是12週那我跟委員報告我們現在的所有產價合起來包括安胎價產檢價產價本身8週有心部分合併已經大概15週了我們都大概符合國際標準15週是怎麼是怎麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10565.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10590.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這是安胎假30天半薪日數沒有上限然後產檢假7天是全薪然後再加產假8週整個有薪部分合併就有15週安胎假不是半薪嗎對安胎假是半薪啦我是指有薪當然也含半薪有薪你剛剛念的是7天加8週欸對 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10594.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10605.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
不是七週加八週耶?是七天加八週耶?對不對?有薪假是九週。全薪九週。半薪還有三十天。 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10613.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10628.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
所以部長覺得我們這樣子對於孕婦職業婦女在受孕期間的保障她的假期是夠的?勞動部這邊的基本立場是不是這樣子? |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10629.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10651.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
當然希望可以更好啦可是這更好要評估啦就是說牽涉到勞僱雙方就是您講的更好可能就是就是就是我國的企業裡面齁大概有有超過97%是30人以下的企業啦微型企業就是未滿5個的大概有超過80%所以延長產價 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10655.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10680.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
怎麼降低中低企業的人力調配?對 這就是問題因為他們一定要有人取代嘛然後呢沒人取代的時候他就會乾脆那我就不請你了就會造成反而對女性就業不利啦對產後的女性就業不利對啊或是有可能懷孕的女性不過部長這樣子回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10681.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10702.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
怪怪的就是說就是說欸延長了以後他就會他可以他可以可以這樣子解雇嗎不是他不能解雇可是我的意思說那他就在這一個在雇用的選擇的時候他就會比較會有歧視出現嗎對啊就是欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10708.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10734.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
對 隱性的 這個是因為我們法律上是不允許的我現在的意思是這樣子就是說這次提出來的修法版本大概都是以12週的參加就是把原本的8週提高到12週那我現在只是在問說因為這個就是牢固雙方要一起看一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10735.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10735.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10752.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10778.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
有沒有什麼想法部長對於降低中小企業人力調配的衝擊有沒有什麼想法啦我現在是問這個啦降低中小企業人力調配這個當然是這樣啦委員就是說如果說您支持這個產業要繼續延長的話重點是要讓它做得到啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10779.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10795.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
阿你如果是要僱主給薪他就會不願意阿所以如果要做可能要朝公共化去設計啦就是所謂的由政府來提供預算支持啦那這個不裡面支持嗎這個我還不敢問欸我們可以往這個方向來研議啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10798.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10818.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我們來往這個方向研議好不好?如果委員支持的話,委員覺得應該要這麼做的話。這個我目前就是沒有答案,所以我也沒有提出來。對,可是即便政府預算支持,它也有人力調配的問題。人力調配就不是我能夠去處理了。而且把很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10823.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10824.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
我問一下巴斯亮表齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10839.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10848.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
所以說衛福部在2022年的老人狀況調查中指出70歲到74歲的長者大概有19%75歲到79歲有25%80歲以上有32%這個比例是什麼呢就是他自認自己的身體狀況不太好或是很不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10866.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10887.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那80歲以下我們不討論就是說80歲以上有32%的人覺得他的身體狀況不太好再加上80歲以上他有的時候身體狀況在健康狀況在下滑的速度是非常快 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10889.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10916.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
所以也就因為這樣子所以才有免82票的主張那剛剛我也聽到部長講大概我們現在有一些配套出來包括長照需求的指數等等那我要問的是這樣子就是說假如說我們放寬了 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10919.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10941.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
怎麼確保外籍移工的引進數量可以滿足因為臺灣馬上要進入超高齡社會其實像在澎湖獨居的老人很多怎麼確保外籍移工的引進數量可以滿足市場需求因為這有前站53萬的 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10943.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10968.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
移工數的需求這是很龐大而且會產生衝擊的問題所以我們要審慎那這個就是布裡面現在有沒有我們沒有我們就是害怕就是我們擔心這個所以我們對這個問題我們會比較審慎對今天的修法雖然精神上我支持啦可是就是說做法上我們是不是可以再更審慎一點這樣子對 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10970.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10985.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
因為其實我還是要講我基本上是贊成的可是我又怕引進的勞動力不足會排擠到原來失能的照顧可是從另外一個角度來看就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10986.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11011.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
我剛才講了嘛我們的平均移民大概男性81女性84左右嘛表示說他到了80歲就有一個臨界點所以確實是有需求才會有委員的版本這個我們必須要先承認這樣子那假如說外籍移工的引進數量你們沒有辦法確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11013.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11033.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
那恐怕第一個就是會有排擠的效應第二個會有移工來挑被照顧者的情況因為80歲不用平定就可以聘請外籍看護工 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11043.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11053.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那他可能是目前需求不大可是他就先申請了 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11054.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11073.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
他財力上可以嘛,所以他先申請了,那他申請了以後就會有一個原本必須要受到照顧的長者沒有辦法受到妥善的照料。這一些問題希望部裡面都能夠趕快去做一些處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11074.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11099.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
特別是引進勞動力的部分這個恐怕必須要加油因為台灣超高齡社會的來臨會很快在離島偏鄉會更快因為離島偏鄉獨居的老人太多因為在地就業的機會太少所以中壯年人口外流 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11100.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11110.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
所以這個請部裡面趕快去做一些計畫。好,謝謝部長。好,謝謝。接下來我們請張志倫委員質詢。好,謝謝主席、各位委員、各位官員。大家早安。有請何部長。請何部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11128.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11152.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
好 部長早 恭喜部長在擔任我們的勞動部長那我有看過部長的一些經歷部長過去不僅是在這個立法院服務過那也過去也擔任過這個行政院的副秘書長那我相信你應該是這個最了解民生 最可以苦民所苦那本席也期待你可以用專業讓我們的人民更好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11153.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11172.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
首先還是要請教部長,有關於賴清德520的就職演說的部分,其實我有讀過,整體讀過。他針對全民現在最關心的,就是我們現在全台灣一千多萬的勞工的勞保,他提了一句話,他說:「大家關心勞保財務,我再次強調,只要政府在,勞保絕對不會倒。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11174.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11198.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
那相信部長現在應該非常清楚現在很多的資料統計現在這個以勞保基金精算的負債是標破13兆那尤其在2023年底勞保基金的負債是13兆4650億照上一年度的2022年的時候是增加了12兆的部分是增加了非常多的金額那請問一下部長這個有關於賴總統講的說這個政府債勞保絕對不會倒 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11204.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11224.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
請問在勞動你們有沒有什麼措施來協助這個部分?委員我已經就一再的強調總統這一個談話他的內涵就是我們那政府執政有能力發展經濟然後確保我們有足夠的財政能力可以對勞保進行挹注跟撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11226.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11231.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
所以勞工朋友不要擔心我們這個撥補就是實踐政府最終支付責任的改革勞工朋友也絕對不要擔心所謂的潛藏負債因為這個潛藏負債其實不是真正的負債它是一個可能產生給負責任這個意思而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11245.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11268.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
就事務上絕對不可能1050萬勞工在同一個時間擬啦。那個是會分階段慢慢發生的。好,部長謝謝你的說明。第2點我要跟您特別報告。這個潛藏負債是因為這個國際上它因為一些準則的規定它不用列到我們每一個國家的總負債當中。可是第一個不代表它不是負債。就像剛剛部長特別提到說如果有人擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11269.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11297.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
他就是要給付所以只要以財快的角度來講只要有人領他就對政府來講他就是一種負債只是說現在依照準則的部分不用列到這個國家的總負債這第一點要跟這個部長來說明了那第二點要跟部長拜託的是說這個金額有一個原理就是我剛有特別提到他的金額一直不斷的在快速的增加當中所以還會累積到13兆所以萬丈高樓平地期他會累積到13兆一定是他 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11298.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11314.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
的金額一直不斷負債一直不斷的增加所以我們當然對待總統講的這一段話不會導事實上打有很大的問號因為其實只要金額不斷累積去增加其實這事實上來講這金額越來越高感覺起來就是沒有解決人民的問題啦因為只要假設 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11316.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11330.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我進去的錢比他領出來的錢還要多造成這個負債金額越來越大其實就是會造成這個金額越來越高所以拜託部長因為你才剛上任我相信這是一個壓力可是也是一個責任所以我今天不是要你去一定要回答這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11331.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11352.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
我直接說希望部長可以來研究一下那你要跟部長請教一下請問在這個今年度的時候有沒有新的勞保的政策會來實行你們有沒有在演繹一些新的政策我覺得這才是全民想要去了解請問部長有嗎我有啊就是除了這一個我們撥補持續的撥補之外而且那金額是相當 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11353.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11369.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
是也會不低於去年度的喔所以這個是大概1200億左右的規格然後呢我們在開源部分我們會做很多努力啦但有沒有可能性啦我只問可能性有沒有可能會增加每一個勞工的勞保費不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11370.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11386.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
不可能嘛齁,好,了解,這點我相信大家最重視的是這一點齁,那因為時間關係有第二個問題齁,台灣現在目前第一個面臨到最嚴重的就是少子化問題齁,經濟統計報告顯示現在一個家庭現在平均生小孩只有1.09個人齁,這是全台灣最 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11387.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11413.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
全世界最低那所以今天我跟部長報告大家很重視的是在養跟育所以今天我相信國民黨團提出來的版本是產價的增加到12週就是希望這個媽媽們願意生小孩那這部分我剛才也聽到部長講你說要做一個縝密性的一個商量所以我還是希望說部長這個部分應該要來幫苦民所苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11414.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11422.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
議員林德福等19人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案 案件及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11443.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11449.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
巴斯亮表的部分剛剛你也提過因為時間的關係我直接跳到最後一題可以看到的部分最後一題最後一題就是保姆的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11456.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11475.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
好最近我一直在這個民間遇到很多的我剛剛一直在講嘛養跟育都很重要可是我要幫我們這個全這個很多現在正在做保姆的人來幫他們申訴就我了解現在有在宅在家裡幫忙帶的保姆的他們的費用一個兩歲以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11476.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11488.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11497.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11512.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
拿不到三萬塊要顧兩個小孩,而且現在草紙化可能要顧慮到兩個家庭的心理的感受。我不是說要幫忙讓很多的家庭負擔更比較重,我相信政府單位這邊應該來協助這邊。部長你怎麼看? |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11518.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11538.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
這是衛福部的責任,可是害的是我們的勞工,所以我希望兩邊可以互相來做資源,就是說兩邊互相做討論。當你們發現說臺灣的勞工,尤其是這些保姆,他取得薪資相對較低的時候,你們應該也要建議衛福部這邊,這個薪資的部分是不是可以著雨調高。 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11539.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11540.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
接下來我們請林德福委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11572.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11586.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
謝謝主席是不是請何部長好請何部長部長你好我請教是因為114年政府行政機關這個辦公日曆表似乎還沒有開會討論確定這個人事行政總署預計何時會開會你知不知道唉 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11600.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11606.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
這我可能要查一下呢這我不是很了解因為齁全民都很期待五一勞動節改為全國 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11609.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11629.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
國定假日。本時是希望說114年起五一勞動節能夠讓全國統一休假。何部長,因為行政院長卓院長有沒有交辦處理與內政部跟人事行政總組到底何時開會,哪時候會有結論? |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11633.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11650.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
那個委員因為這個其實是陳院長時代確實他有處理所以說你們目前我們並沒有接到昨院長有這個指示那個其實齁因為你要統一阿結果現在這個事情其實當很久了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11650.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11667.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那我認為說有的休假有的不休假這個講在外界齁這個批評很多啦齁因為你沒有統一啊造成也很多人很困擾尤其很多家裡有小朋友啦那家長休息或者小朋友怎麼樣反正我認為這個應該要積極去處理啦齁何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11672.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11697.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
第二個根據內政部統計80歲以上的人口至今今年的4月一共有91萬人此外國發會推估到2034年80歲以上的民眾差不多有162萬人許多高齡長者需要有人來照顧但是巴士量表制度卻讓許多家庭感到苦惱更造成許多醫病關係緊張的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11699.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11724.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
那行政院卓院長就任時就宣布說行動創新AI內閣啟動他強調將推動胡國立民的法案本席今天當然我有提出來就是說就業服務法第四十六條的草案就是胡國立民的法案那我希望勞動部這次也能夠支持這個案子那個部長有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11725.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11753.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
委員您的提案我就是非常肯定您的這個提案的精神那我就是說可是就是說我們因為同時必須考慮很多因素不過沒關係就是說在這個其實從去年到現在我們在這個巴士量表的部分已經做了多元認定的改革然後這部分已經有3.2萬人在使用而且它也跟巴士量表幾乎是但是新的政府我認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11755.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11778.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
新人新氣象我希望大家這麼個看法你們應該要去改革部長除季總數公佈113年1到4月消費者物價指數平均較上年的同期漲了2.24%勞工在抱怨說薪資漲幅跟不上物價的上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11780.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11795.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
同樣的問題我問過前部長許明春那現在我來詢問新政府的態度依法最低工資的審議討論將在每年的第三季進行那我請問勞動部何部長你認為何時最低工資會超過三萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11798.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11815.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
何時?委員報告我們最低工資今年是元年最低工資法通過後的最低工資元年那今年第三季我們會很快的來召開諮詢小組會議那高層有沒有指示會不會落在2026年地方選舉前來宣布調整會嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11818.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11834.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
委員我們每年都必須去審議最低工資的這個要不要調漲的問題對每年喔今年也會有做任何事情要積極不要好像都有政治目的才來推每年都會處理那個部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11835.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11862.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
因為根據勞動部113年1月底大專畢業生的勞動概況1、2年畢業生可工作人口差不多19萬人其中有參加勞保、工保、農保差不多合計也有13萬人但是也有6萬人沒有參加勞保、工保、農保換言之1、2年畢業生有31%的人沒有進入就業的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11863.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11869.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那我請問勞動部何部長這算不算是畢業就是失業的狀況當然是我們15到24歲19到24歲這個就業率確實稍微高一些7.8%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11881.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11904.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
可是它有一個狀況就是說他們可能在嘗試中就是年輕人還在嘗試尋求社會福利及衛生環境委員會安排投資青年就業方案的第二期執行進度專案報告以利於外界了解到底青年就業問題到底有沒有改善我認為這很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11904.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11926.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
其實有耶 有喔 對我們其實我們現在失業率是降低的青年失業率是降低的我希望說能夠朝著畢業就有工作那當然不可能百分之百啦但是不要畢業生有百分之三十一因為你有進入職場最起碼你有勞保工保農保最起碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11927.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11940.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
這三寶一定要有一個寶,但是要是沒有的話,達到百分之三十一的畢業生沒有這些寶,我認為說當然講一些好聽的話是沒有意義的啦。好,謝謝委員。好,謝謝林德福委員。接下來我們請洪森漢委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11959.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11982.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
請何部長請部長你好下一張部長其實我們今天要來討論的這個議題齁我想當然跟所謂我們的移工跟看護工的政策有關齁但是其實大家都清楚知道其實這個議題的本質還是是一個照護政策的問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11984.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11996.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
所以照理來說我認為今天在這邊要接受尋答的我認為應該是現在新任的衛福部的邱部長或者是他們至少應該要有次長來到現場因為這個命題的本質是照護問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12001.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12022.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
那所以我第一個我在看到這個題目的時候或者是我們剛剛看到去年選舉的時候大家有些討論的時候坦白說我自己是蠻擔憂的就是我們一方面看到了很多需要照顧的僱主在被照顧上面的需求確實也還有很多的需求沒有被滿足 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12023.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12052.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
可是大家現在想要直接的說那我們是不是就來開救福法那來擴大增加聘僱外籍看護工的這部分我自己很擔心會有一件事不見臨甚至會產生很多對我們原本長照政策的副作用的部分但我要先說我完全可以理解為什麼現在會有一些人覺得我產生照顧上面的需求沒被滿足我就想要開救福法 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12053.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12063.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
原因很簡單我覺得過去8年我們確實有犯了一個問題的錯誤我們把移工政策跟長照政策切得太開了 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12065.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12084.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
尤其是外籍看護工的部分他很重要的源頭是一個照護政策的部分可是我們過去真的把它切得太開了當我們過去切得這麼開的時候我們現在就很難怪有些人他會覺得說我照護需求沒被滿足所以我就想要開移工他不會去想到整體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12085.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12110.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
告知政策或長照政策部分。我自己覺得我們過去也有一些責任。坦白說這部分我們沒有辦法都推卸。但是當這個關口我們還是必須審慎的來檢視現在當下的政策的時候。部長我先問其實按照如果現在幾個一些委員的版本然後直接來開就業服務法第46條的話有沒有評估會對長照政策產生什麼影響? |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12112.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12136.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
呃 是啊 所以這個衛福部今天的報告也有表示啦因為裡面80開80歲這條線上面這一個有含亞健康亞健康的這一種高達他的潛在的可能移工需求數會53萬左右所以這是一個很龐大的數字那第一個你可能會對你如果引進這些移工啦齁那你當然你一定會對長照2.0或3.0會產生排擠啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12139.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12166.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
事實上一定會這樣的我自己認為我其實並不排斥任何政策的調整可是重點是這個政策調整的思維應該經過什麼樣的路徑其實以去年那時候十月的時候當然陳院長時代我們開了三項的這個多元的免金八字兩法評估的多元管道的部分這三項當時確實就我理解我自己辦公室有參與它其實有經過包括醫療團體對 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12168.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12192.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
包括照顧團體包括障礙者團體相對應的多元的利害相關其實都有參與後來定出來了一個這樣子的方向我認為效果好不好我們可以再檢討如果還可以做得更好的地方我覺得還可以再做一些調整跟微調我覺得都OK可是我覺得經過多元的利害相關者一個整體的評估而且經過量化的評估是重要的事情下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12193.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12221.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
下一張我認為其實其中包括裡面有一個團體就是我們這個家庭照護者關懷總會一般稱為家總他其實有一個建議我覺得非常重要這建議是我們接下來在照護政策上各種的調整應該以調查為基礎來制定計劃與預算也就是要調查為基礎而不是大家憑空去想那我認為現在不管是尤其是當然衛福部我今天看到好像只有駐司長來 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12223.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12229.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
對 衛福部也好或者是那個勞動部也好我都覺得我們過去在這方面的基礎調查真的是不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12231.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12256.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
我們其實有很大一群人他可能透過移工外籍移工來滿足他的照顧需求可是這些透過外籍移工滿足照顧需求的人他的主管機關變成是勞動部可是勞動部對於這些被照顧的人到底他的樣態是什麼他的需求是什麼我們其實是並不了解的這是一個很大的問題他的主管機關變你可是你對他的這些人其實並不了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12257.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12273.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
那有這麼一大塊他的需求我們並不真實掌握的狀況下面我們接下來要做各種的政策變動的時候其實都會有點像是蝦子在摸象所以我認為如果參考今天很多NGO專業NGO的討論來說的話我認為勞動部應該要跟衛福部好好討論針對現在他可能是靠 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12277.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12302.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
外籍看護工來滿足照護需求的這些人你怎麼對他的需求有一個清楚完整的甚至需要普查或者是類似的調查我覺得掌握這些事情以後我們才有辦法往下一個階段到底這裡面該怎麼連動討論來去處理主席再給我一分鐘的時間我下面一個問題是那個現在針對之前勞動部有規劃所謂外展看護服務室事辦計畫目前進度到哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12303.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12332.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我們現在正在規劃中了是下半年就會實施不然我覺得這個計畫有一個重要的地方其實我也接到很多外籍看護工的僱主來陳情我覺得他們講的一個地方是有道理的其實我們現在外籍看護有很多的責任他的責任我們會用救福法綁在僱主身上可是在產業移工跟需要照顧的僱主之間其實有差別產業移工是拿這些外籍勞動力去賺錢的他綁更多的責任我覺得我們是同意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12332.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12349.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
但是有很多家庭看護工需要的這些僱主他其實比較像是一個消費者他沒有拿營利他沒有拿營利可是我們一樣在身上綁了很多僱主的責任我覺得怎麼讓這些僱主的責任一個是產業移工或者是外籍看護工之間的僱主責任要有一些區別 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12350.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12364.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
甚至國家政府應該要來協助這些這個家庭看護工需求的僱主承擔他們部分的責任我覺得很重要所以為什麼我會支持向外展看護的事辦計畫的原因那個有部分其實是讓政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12365.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12375.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
在承擔僱主的責任。我覺得這對僱主的負擔來說是有幫助的。我覺得我們應該往這個方向走。這個部長同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12375.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12387.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
那我覺得這個責任需求我希望勞發署或者是勞動部應該要來討論怎麼讓這個有盈利目的的跟沒有盈利目的的僱主之間他的責任有所區別。我覺得這還滿足一般人的需要。接下來我們請黃秀芳委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12399.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12425.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
謝謝主席,我們請部長。好,請部長。部長好。在這一陣子,國內的這個腸病毒是持續在上升當中。那我們也看到這個腸病毒是創下十年來的新高。那我想請教就是說,我們現在這個勞工的一年有七天的家庭照顧假。 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12426.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12446.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
那你們有沒有特別去做一個統計就是在最近這幾年當中就是我們這個勞工請的這個家庭照顧假到底有多少人申請那是不是有的勞工要申請這個家庭照顧假有他的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12447.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12472.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
你們有做這樣的一個統計嗎?你說請假上的困難嗎?委員就是他現在常病像你講剛剛常病毒每週大概100多班停課嘛。退伍每週大概3000到4000人有照顧需求啦。然後他可以請家庭照顧假啊可以運用試假或特休啦。因為可是老公請假他沒有通報我沒有辦法說完全掌握那麼仔細對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12474.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12485.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
所以沒有特別去針對這個勞工請家庭照顧假這樣的一個這個狀況去做一個統計目前沒有做這樣的統計目前沒有做這樣的統計那未來是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12488.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12508.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
所以不需要對他也比較沒辦法掌握數據啦除非我去做民調吧或是做對因為他因為像大量解雇那個雇主要通報來的可是像這個他是不用是或是是對所以比較難掌握這樣比較難掌握那未來有沒有可能針對這一部分去做一個瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12509.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12513.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
老公要請家屬回家。接下來我想請教,因為我們今天有針對這個就業服務法還有勞基法做一個這個這個草案很多人提出來就是說我們這個巴士量表,確實我們在這個基層有 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12531.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12560.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12560.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12575.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
外籍看護。會不會造成實際上有需求的人反而可能會有他的困難。所以我是請勞動部是不是可以針對這部分,你們來說明。未來,剛剛我有聽部長講就是說會有這個外展。 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12580.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12597.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案件 及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一項委員會及其中一� |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12610.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12616.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
我們下半年就會開始試辦上路。下半年會開始試辦,那你會從哪一方面,你們會怎麼試辦?這個是不是可以在這邊先?就跟委員解釋,它是一個這樣的,就是說用NGO跟NGO合作,然後我們請NGO跟仲介合組一個team,然後他們我們會進行評選。 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12635.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12663.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
然後呢這個模式是這個勞工就是移工他是被這個這個仲介雇用可是他是統一雇用的然後他會針對案家的需求他會先讓因為有NGO的監督所以他可以對他進行照顧訓練等等這些技巧的訓練然後他會可以派到案家去跟媒合案家的需求那他是個自費市場那我如果說我家裡面有這個需求的話我要怎麼申請我要向誰申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12664.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12679.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
就是比較像那個NGO單位我們那個NGO單位到時候應該會很多啦就是比如說像我們現在長照體系裡面有很多NGO團體其實當然他們都會可以是潛在的對象對那其實他們都已經散佈在台灣各地方了 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12680.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12697.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
那你預計是這個下半年度你們就要開始試辦的話,那你們現在應該什麼NGO的這個一些組織跟你們有合作,你們應該目前都確定了嗎?目前都確定,所以各縣市它分布的狀況是怎樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12699.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12714.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
我們現在是先選一兩個縣市來試辦啦沒有辦法因為也要總要先試辦看效果好不好我們再大幅度的來推廣滾動式修正那你們試辦你說一兩個縣市目前下半年度要試辦那一兩個縣市是哪一兩個縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12717.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12742.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
委員我這個部分我可不可以找一個比較我看甚至我們可以來委員會做專案報告給我一點時間因為我們這個是必須要有完整的來報告比較好啦你說哪些縣市或哪些團體這些都比較是屬於我們現在還在規劃中的東西那現在就貿然跟您報告對我想也不是很妥當 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12743.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12765.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
那可不可以給我一點時間?那其實我也擔心的就是說因為你剛剛跟我講說下半年度要試辦嘛那應該整個計畫應該也逐漸有一個成型了嘛對啊所以我才會問說那你們未來因為下半年度現在已經五月中了嘛五月底了對那即將就邁入第六 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12766.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12792.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
獲得6月,下半年度應該就是下半年度的開始。我是希望因為地方民眾有這樣的一個需求,當然說我希望你們推出來的這個方式應該是讓民眾申請也方便,有他的可敬性,方便整個流程或者是文件的 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12793.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12794.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
bicyclia Chan |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12810.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12826.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那我覺得開巴士量表還比這個還簡單的話,那就失去它原本的這個美意。我要釐清一下齁,這個就是處理非巴士量表的部分啦。它是佛健康跟亞健康族群的,它是沒失能的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12827.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12841.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
施能那一塊就是我們今天在講的這個修法巴士量表這一塊我會新增我們已經有三個多年認定對不對那麼其實我們當然那禮拜三我們還要逐條嗎那麼其實我們可以再增加項目啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12842.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12848.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12865.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12887.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
家庭照顧假那我在上禮拜我有特別提到就是說有關這個照顧留職停薪是不是未來有可能朝著這個方向就是說比照這個育嬰育嬰留庭的這樣的一個方式不知道有沒有可能是朝著這個方向去謝謝委員支持我確實有這個想法然後當然這部分可是這部分又牽涉到 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12888.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12917.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案 案 要不要給新等等這些規劃要需要一點時間好不好對是是我們會來規劃預計預計什麼時候總是你們要規劃要給一個期程吧對我我盡快來規劃然後對其實已經在開始在在思考這些了對那麽未來你你剛講的我們我們的這個呃有更多元的好這個方式對那其實如果說呃可能兩三個月也許 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12917.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12924.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
議員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12939.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12965.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
對,我們希望能夠讓婦女能夠更多的,因為有的企業她會,有的女性啦,就是因為要照顧嘛,她就不敢出去工作。那如果有照顧流行這種來輔助的話,maybe她的那個出外工作的意願會比較高,我們可以因此更提升婦女的就業率這樣子,對。好,那我希望說這個部分是不是也要一併,也一併要去盡速進來的規劃。 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12967.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12982.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案 案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條條文修正草案 案件,其中一人 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12995.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13000.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
您的看法呢?委員我非常肯定支持您的提案的精神那麼是不是說我們這一個因為目前現行我剛才解釋過已經有針對巴士量表也是因為您的這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13022.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13042.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
您們提案的這個主張所以我們其實在去年10月就已經新增三項多元認定只是增加寬寬一點點但是我們發覺到目前為止之所以會提案提出這個問題就是社會面向它是有需要的它迫切需要在這樣的情況之下我們實質來討論我們大概在2025年會進入到這個高齡人口應該會超過20% |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13049.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13077.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
二十八呢是等於在全世界裡頭是超高齡化的社會那國安會也預估在八年後我們會有超過一百一十八萬私人的人口需要照顧所以面對兩邊燒面對家庭的人口它是越來越少所以換句話說平均年齡會越來越大的這個趨勢那家屬跟病患所需要聘請看護的需求它會增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13078.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13098.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
而且長期照護的費用更是沉重的經濟負擔那所以呢到目前為止包括了財政部也特別將長照的這一塊可以納入寬免額逐年再增加它的寬免額這是整個國家橫向的部會當中每一個部分大家一直在努力協助這些家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13099.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13115.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
那所以之所以本席提出了第46條第四項的部分呢就是僱主聘僱外國人從事家庭看護工作被看護者的資格條件這個是影響到很多的家庭真正需要的他請不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13116.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13136.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
哇 這個很傷痛腦筋 這個影響到整個社會的勞動力很多甚至我乾脆我就放棄工作我就自己來照顧這樣整個是一個惡性循環所以政府有條件而且有義務有責任要好好的來照顧這些所以我們提供了一個也就是年滿80歲以上得免金醫療機構之 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13140.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13168.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
專業評估也就是所謂的巴士量表我希望部長你剛才在回答當中本席都有聽到你要開了很多的這個指向更寬廣的納進來但是你剛才包括的跟NGO團體那也只是要示範找一兩個團體來示範那這個緩不及急本席不反對你去示範但是你要嚴肅的去考慮社會的面向的確需要的時候那整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13169.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13172.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案 案 條件 條件 條件 條件 條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13190.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13211.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
大概77萬左右,但是失聯的8萬5,那本席認為還不止這個數字,這是顯性的,隱性的還沒出來。那當然你在2023年的時候你查處了2萬7的失聯移工,雖然說成效是歷年最佳,但是跟實際上聯繫不上的還有四分之三。 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13211.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13216.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
所以這個數字我希望說我們針對問題來討論針對問題來討論所以在這樣的一個情況之下黑工的問題相對的越來越普遍甚至我們看到有新南向產學的專班 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13229.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13247.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
他來的時候他的工作時間比他學的還要多那這個是不對的一個行為所以在這樣的情況之下本席要請教你身為部長你要怎麼樣避免這個失聯持續惡化請教所以委員這失聯的原因有非常多 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13249.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13277.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
反正結果論就是失聯那你要怎麼樣從結果論去找出你的方案讓他不失聯其實主要這個合理的勞動條件還蠻重要的憑良心講尤其失聯裡面大眾就是看護工啦你看護工就他就逃跑可能就去農場或者是去很就像我們中南部很民間幾乎都是對這個是本期欣賞你直白的部分但是你已經知道目前的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13278.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13306.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
那你應該要去研擬要怎麼樣你身為一個部長你應該大膽的提出建言讓政府聽到而且是執行之民眾要的是結果論我把這個功課給你你好好地去研議好不好我也希望聽到答案我不希望只有聽到一些政治話術對社會沒幫助的最後一個議題本席要跟你討論5月23號你提出的工作重點之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13309.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13329.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
這六個字聽起來很美耶但是在美的過程你要怎麼樣落實本席請教我們在僱主、營善、友善、職場、育兒環境本席非常重視教育育兒環境的這一環特別提出這一環你要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13330.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13358.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
因為你所提出的雙就業雙照顧你要促進工作跟家庭的一個平衡那你勞動部研議的示範方案跟獎勵措施你要找出受僱者可以兼顧工作與家庭這樣子的可行性方案跟彈性的工作方式所以本席要請教你你要怎麼樣落實特別在照顧留職停薪的這一環你要怎麼研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13359.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13374.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
因為我們要怎麼樣讓女性解開家庭的照顧責任的這個束縛這一點非常重要你怎麼做好謝謝委員支持我照顧劉婷的構想對啊你怎麼做其實這是一個新的想法你怎麼做你預計要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13374.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13404.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
目前我正在規劃中我容我找時間來跟您報告因為女性留職提薪之後在回屋職場不到五成很浪費這些都是人才都是國家的勞動力所以針對你所提出的雙就業雙照顧你要怎麼樣能夠替我們女性解開家庭照顧責任的束縛讓我們的勞動力可以加強這個是你非常重要的課題你研議好 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13405.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13406.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
謝謝主席請問部長何部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13437.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13464.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
請我們長期照顧時事長。來,部長。司長,今天審議的這個就業服務法,那其中有一個重點就是巴士量表。你知道巴士量表在一屆還有另外一個名稱嗎?是什麼名字?請示委員。部長,巴士量表又被稱為功德量表。你知道原因嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13465.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13491.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
嗯...是不知道對不對因為醫師開巴士量表是沒有一毛錢可以拿然後這裡這裡有寫啊沒開要被揍沒過會被揍開的出事要被拘提然後去你的巴士量表很多醫師恨透了這個功德量表這是一個醫師在在他的這個FB上面表達的態度喔那我們也看一下影片好了好不好等一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13501.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13515.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
好我們看一下這個影片這就是這個發射量表他沒有開成然後家屬很不滿然後就被揍這樣所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13528.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13543.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
部長你知道一屆除了這個健保點值被壓榨很不爽之外另外一件事就是這個巴士量表啦那請教部長你認不認為放寬這個80歲以上的被看護者以及70到79歲患有癌症二期以上的國人可以免巴士量表是可以解決這樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13545.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13565.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
委員我剛剛都已經強調就是我非常能夠支持這樣子的提案的精神啦對那所以我們在去年提出三個多元認定就是也是要幫忙解決這個巴士量表的困境那其實現在用多元認定的齁跟巴士量表比例已經一半一半了 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13566.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13579.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
有大量減低巴氏量表的使用啦我相信醫界可能對這個應該是會有點感同所以你還是不認同就是說希望可以就是直接放寬這80歲以上和這70到79歲的可以免巴氏量表的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13580.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13605.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
呃 不是說不認同啦 而是說 主要是要考量80歲以上 這個界限 是全放齁 裡面有那個 你是說那個有癌症二期的嗎對 部長 市長 是最重要的是其實這兩項政策的民意支持度都是極高喔 尤其這兩種族群背後的家庭極度需要這個免罰式量表 然後尤其有許多家庭成員也因此要 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13606.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13615.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
必須要放棄工作或者是有許多的增加許多的負擔所以我覺得開放這個免貧才是真正的做功德不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13616.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13637.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
對,其實我們可以來討論,就是那個多元認定也是免憑。那我們如果再多一些放寬的條件,我想在禮拜三主條我們可以來做一些討論好不好。是,是。對,部長,因為我也要再次的強調,這真的很需要。所以,你們勞動部自己在106年有做一個統計,每年有13萬人因為照顧要離職。 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13639.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13667.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
並且去年5月的主計總署也有統計這個25到64歲的未就業者有286.5萬人那其中因為照顧65歲以上家人無法工作者有5.25%那這個就是顯示離職人數每年大概有快15萬人所以部長我想降低照顧離職人數是勞動部跟衛福部都必須去加強跟努力的方向這樣才能夠讓我們勞動力可以釋放對不對但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13668.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13690.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
我覺得看到今天的報告真的是還沒有看到你們想要努力的作為啦因為你說要禮拜三再好好的討論可是我覺得沒有更積極的作為因為你們今天的說明是非常簡陋喔其實只有簡單的四行字那重點就是說勞動部要跟衛福部等跨部會還有專科醫學會學者專家跟相關團體充分討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13691.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13707.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
那這部分我當然是很認同要充分的討論喔但是 行政部長因為去年衛福部跟勞動部針對這些族群免巴適量表的議題其實在上一年的9月12號共同召開諮詢會議那這9月12號其實有距離在野黨當時的總統候選人在8月29號提出這項政見中 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13713.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13735.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
中間只有隔了兩個星期也就是隔了14天喔那也就是說14天其實你們就可以跨部會動起來但是現在這個法案已經一讀通過多久了我覺得看不到你們的效率看不到你們想要改善這件事情的積極度那我想是因為過去上一年是有選舉的壓力嗎所以因為有選舉壓力大家才會這麼積極嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13738.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13765.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
沒有委員其實這個法案今天才開始這個排審啊但是之前一讀一讀已經通過了嘛對不對一讀所以才進來委員會啊一讀並沒有討論啊是今天委員會才開始審查討論你知道這個事情其實已經有一段時間了那當然我想要講的是部長你520才上任啦我剛剛要表達就是你上任其實到現在一個星期我也沒有要怪你的意思但是的確不能怪你喔可是我想要表達的事情是我們在上一年看到這個14天的這樣的效能和效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13767.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13782.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
接下來我們再真的認真在討論這件事情可不可以拜託你們跨部會的效能動起來有有有當然我們針對今天委員的審查以及禮拜三的主條我們是有跨部會在已經積極討論的那我們是可以具體提出一些建議啦對 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13783.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13805.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
好,因為我們今天看到你們的報告是感覺到很多的理由是像是在敷衍和推遲所以本席在這裡對本席在這裡就是要訴求請你們盡速的動起來真的把這個福國立民的法案推動過去或是放寬更多讓這些需要被照顧的人以及這些需要的家庭真的可以充分獲利好不好好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13807.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13829.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
那部長第二個是再來就是有關延長產產價的部分對不對那你們自己的報告都寫明哦認為目前產價看到這上面你們的報告嗎不是產價8週已經足夠者將近44%那認為產價週數不足夠者有56%基本上也就是超過半數以上都認為產價不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13831.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13846.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
而且請教部長你知道受調查的母體都是最近一年有申請產假的這個產假者很多都是新手媽媽嗎?是對部長有生育經驗的媽媽過半數都認為這個產假不足這是很精準的母體為何不能夠增加產假的天數? |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13848.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13872.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
委員就是說不是不能增加而是我們也很希望增加可是真的是要考慮實務上會不會增加女性的反而隱形的就業再就業歧視啦是不是有這個真的是要考慮然後牢固雙方的意願齁牢固雙方的那個然後還有包括說要做的話就要 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13872.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13877.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
對,所以你們報告裡面有說女性針對這個部分因為需求不宜所以你們就是要考量嘛,對不對?是。好,那我覺得...而且那個委員跟委員報告,勞基法是一個很硬的法啦。你要是現在給他延長這種快狀的從8週到12週,他是怎樣呢?他一請他就不能回來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13897.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13920.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
他回來都不行他一定要12週都全部修完所以反而會造成那個部長我告訴你因為你們現在大多數你們從民調就看到民意上面56%認為不足好所以民意是希望延長那你們就算你覺得12週太長或至少應該也要可以討論嘛到底是多久是夠的那現在感覺都不討論你就留下一句說這個要研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13921.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13945.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
建議評估考量。這個是我覺得不是一個合理還負責的做法。我們可以來再更積極的評估好不好。好。對。部長而且你報告裡面還有提到一個我覺得很扯的啦。就是你剛剛有提到這個所謂的影響到在就業的這個女性的一些歧視的問題喔。你在報告裡面有提到對於事業單位的人力調度這上面及運作人有負擔是否間接影響僱用 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13947.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13967.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
獄靈女性之意願應該一併考量。我覺得這句話在勞動部的立場很奇怪,感覺很像是站在資方的立場幫資方講話,然後就說他這樣子就會被歧視。所以你們這句話的潛台詞不就是僱主不會僱用懷孕女性,而且可能因為這樣子會不想要僱用女性。 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13969.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13985.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
所以我覺得這句話很奇怪也充滿歧視我覺得這樣不太合適因為你這樣的意思就是按照你們這樣的邏輯就是任何增加勞工權益的政策都會增加資方的負擔可能會讓他們歧視或是讓他們不想要聘請這個勞工所以不要修這個法 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13986.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14002.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我覺得這個邏輯我真的很想要跟部長說你們要回去好好檢討你的報告為什麼這樣寫因為你這個邏輯你知道大家在外面會怎麼看嗎就勞動部你應該站在勞工的權益上面幫他增加權益但是你用這個說法是不是要改名叫做自動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14003.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14022.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
就是你的講法完全的有問題我們以後要修改這種用語我們以後應該要修改這個用語你用這個角度去思考你就不用想說任何勞工權益要增加啦倒不是說不思考而是說對就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14024.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14043.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
我們主要是針對那個小微企業啦,因為小微企業是這樣,他喔,好端有鹹貢精啦,常常僱主本身也是勞工啦,所以他的這種僱傭形態跟那種我們想像的那種其實是有差距的,不過沒關係,我覺得你的建議很好,我們以後要調整這樣子的用語好不好,對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14044.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14067.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
用語之外最主要是針對這個產價的部分你們應該也是要充分的去演繹說現在不足的部分你自己都做了這麼精準的民調了這麼精準的調查了好好好是謝謝委員提醒好謝謝廖偉翔委員接下來我們請鄭振淺、鄭日前、鄭振淺委員不在謝一鳳、謝一鳳、謝一鳳委員不在那我們先休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14084.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14085.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14395.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14419.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
好我們繼續開會接下來我們請何欣淳何欣淳何欣李燕秀呢那要不要讓劉建國委員先講李燕秀委員還沒來是不是他們已經換了阿仁勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14429.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14431.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
何新淳委員不在,接下來我們先請劉建國委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14453.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14477.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
好 謝謝主席也特別感謝主席今天特別排這個案就是80歲以上免這個巴士量表的評估我想基本上這個是當然也是要支持但是免巴士量表的評估這個界限在80歲以上我覺得這個是要被討論的因為為什麼當時要訂這個巴士量表 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14482.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14489.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
這個公部門要講清楚那現在把它拿掉第一個要把它拿掉免評估第二個80歲以上這個界限為什麼這麼晃 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14494.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14519.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
因為我要謝謝昭偉特別排這個案但是昭偉特別提到台灣人的平均餘命應該是70多到80幾那這個女性的功德做得比較多所以女性都活得比男性久一點長壽一點所以男性還不及到80歲那這樣有沒有歧視男性 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14520.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14548.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
這個大家討論啦,我就希望大家來把這個事情要慎重的來面對那我現在要提到就是說公部門有沒有去說明清楚當時為什麼要訂這個巴士量表透過醫師的評估然後還有加上任何什麼樣的條件他才可以來提出申請這個外籍的看護工我今天完全沒有聽到那是不是要衛福部先來做一個說明啊現在這個取消掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14549.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14552.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
你們的看法是什麼?反而勞動部應該是在第二個階段再來談 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14560.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14589.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
好 謝謝委員那我們有機會把這件事情可以說清楚那確實就陳委員剛剛提的年齡到底要怎麼切那為什麼過往會有一些專業的這個評估那其實回過頭來就是看聘請家戶裡面聘請外籍家庭看護工到底聘進來是要做什麼事情所以在我們的看法是需要這個長輩需要有照顧的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14590.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14595.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14612.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14639.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
他基本上來判定他是有完全依賴嚴重依賴那這個時候就是我們也參考了這個國際的這樣的一個通用的量表就是大家俗稱的巴士量吧可是他事實上他是我們這整個由醫療團隊去執行的一個副表他真正的表是所謂的他要由醫療團隊來處理就叫病證病證及失能診斷證明 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14641.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14644.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具:「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案案 案 及施能診斷證明 。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14653.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14681.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
一些疾病有列了一二十項的疾病由疾病的這個變化出來需要的密集照顧的來判定所以基本上才會由交給醫療團隊而且過往比較嚴的是要公告就是由勞動部這邊我們提供的醫院名單給勞動部公告可是我們其實已經在這個之前就已經開放到診所也可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14681.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14686.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
所以現階段開放出來可以來執行這個所謂的病證及這個虛能診斷證明的醫療團隊醫療院所是235家診所是625家 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14711.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14733.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
第二個還要有病證及私人診斷書那個是一個只有醫生能做的疾病診斷書所以今天如果把巴士量表拿掉不需要巴士量表他是不是還要有病證及私人診斷證明書才可以提出外籍考慮申請巴士量表是副表真正的是那個診斷書判定是那個診斷書 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14736.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14763.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
啊所以今天不能讓外界感覺到我們把巴斯亮表整個免評估取消掉之後那需求者他就可以馬上去申請外籍客戶工嗎?我是可以這麼講嗎?就這部分可能就是要看那個法規的文字是怎麼了?你怎麼可以打我這種問題?因為整個呢?你是主管機關法規的文字怎麼說你現在講清楚啊你今天來備選你應該就準備好了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14766.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14794.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
今天召委排這個案就很清楚明確的就80歲以上要免這個巴斯量表的評估讓需求者不管他是健康也健康他都可以提出外籍看護工的申請喔最主要是要做這件事情非常明確嘛那如果今天巴斯量表拿掉免評估之後你必須還有疾病及私人相關的診斷證明才可以提出外籍看護工的申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14795.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14824.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
這你必須要講清楚啊。跟委員報告因為現在各委員提出的版本都是把醫療的專業評估拿掉而不是拿掉巴氏量表但是今天的主題是要講這個相關委員的版本也要把這個診斷證明私人疾病的診斷證明拿掉這是另外一回事但是外界會感覺當時在選舉的過程裡面講的是80歲以上的這些需求者為什麼還要巴氏量表的評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14824.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14842.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
所以今天召委才排這個案,我講這樣應該沒有錯了。對不對?那如果今天把報射量表的評估拿掉了,還有所謂的疾病及失能的診斷證明,你才可以去申請外籍看護工。這個你公部門要講得非常清楚啊。不是現在委員提的版本怎麼樣怎麼樣啊,還沒有審啊,還不曉得啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14845.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14847.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
市長,我剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛只是在強調現況。 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14862.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14882.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
真正專業評估醫療團的專業評估做的是這個病症暨失能診斷證明書。對嘛,所以你今天要處理的就會變成說不只把80量表的評估拿掉免評,叫免評嘛對不對。你是不是連疾病及相關的失能證明同步功要拿掉。對。今天是變成要處理到這個呢,這個層次的喔。好,那問題來了,那為什麼是80歲以上? |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14888.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14908.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
所以這個部分剛剛才提那個年齡應該不是一個主要考量的而是要考量他的照顧需求對所以這個我們要跟外界講清楚嘛不然到時候我們這些委員大家在共同集思廣益的情況之下要為人民謀取更便利的請到外籍看護工結果我們搞不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14910.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14938.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
只針對80歲以上我剛剛講的這是常委提供的數據嘛臺灣人平均餘命女性就大過於男性男性就不及到80歲那所有這些男性都不用請了都不用請了嘛然後再來衛福部的相關資料在網站上公告是80歲以上的私人佔比是32.68啦故有照顧的需求者是29萬29萬喔那現在我們有效聘僱的外籍看護士 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14939.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14955.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
家庭看護工是18萬,這18萬是不含機構再加2萬,現在就已經有照顧需求者就已經不足9萬了喔!依照務部提供的資料已經不足9萬了,80歲以上喔!那你現在全部開放之後會變成怎麼樣?變成用最高的推估啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14962.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14970.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
就是移工人數可能要高達全原有的需求是29萬到這個等於88.7萬扣掉29萬換算加起來要將近要到72萬左右要到72萬左右好那你現在又有讓這些重症的還有輕度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14987.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
15008.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
啊,這些失智症的病患也可以來申請外籍看護工嘛,對不對?好,那個表格秀出來給大家看嘛。這些,這些不需要80歲以上吧?不需要嘛。這些目前為止有申請外籍看護工的占比是多少?人數是多少?你們應該有,手上都有資料嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
15009.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
15034.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
我現在是要跟大家講說供給跟需求我們要講清楚嘛我們要理解清楚嘛齁因為剛剛有很多委員也特別提到這個方向大家來努力沒有錯啦但是會產生什麼樣的效果這效果是好的效果還是反效果會不會再排擠到這些需求者像你看你這些等級一到十二平衡機制障礙啦智能障礙啦植物人啦失智症 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
15035.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
15053.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
這些到底用的外籍看護工的比例多少?你的維護部就有辦法精算出目前有效聘外籍看護工80歲以上的是18萬家庭看護工了。機構是將近2萬嘛。就20萬嘛。但是80歲以上的需求就已經達到了29萬嘛。就已經落差在9萬的這個數額了喔。你一年可以引進多少的外籍看護工進來?一年。 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15066.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15093.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
我們現在還跟印度簽MOU還線上簽的都還沒有確定那我現在跟各位表達就是說當這個需要的29萬到目前都還沒有到位還差了9萬的80歲以上那80歲以下剛剛也有國民黨委員特別提到70到79歲的這個癌症的病友嘛對不對還有你包含這些14項的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15096.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15120.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
這些需求到底是多少?有沒有精算出來?我要表達說,當你把整個這個發射量表的評估拿掉但是你還需要再有一個病症及失能的診斷證明這是另外一個機制嘛,這個機制如果還是持續確保包含勞動部之前在去年10月三項的多元的這樣的一個放寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15123.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15133.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
那這樣林林總統加起來你有沒有一個很明確的數字讓我們知道這樣的供給跟需求會有什麼樣的結構性的大變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15135.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15154.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
會不會今天有委員在講說那到時候你公佈你去處理啊開放之後免評之後你去處理啊你自己去列優先順序當你列了優先順序重產的先重症的先八十歲以上的先八十歲以上的健康跟亞健康的排序是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15155.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15179.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
可以很清楚跟我們說明嗎?如果你沒有辦法很清楚跟我們說明,那就會出大問題喔。我是外籍看護,我今天來到這個家庭裡面,我看到這一個是到上手的,是每天要灌食的,然後搬也搬不太動的,還要搬到洗澡的,我們現在的外籍看護工是可以自由選擇雇主的喔。我會不會馬上說我不來了? |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15183.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15196.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
幹了三天五天我就跑去跟仲介講說我要換僱主。勞動部你要不要很忙?要不要去督促?要不要去監督?為什麼一直換來換過去?一直換來換過去?換到最後我乾脆就逃跑了。輝華移工已經八萬五,應該是破九萬了啦。這事情會不會更嚴重? |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15209.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15229.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
我只是從幾個面向來提供給大家因為我沒有得到這樣的很明確的數字的時候我會覺得做這個事情基本上它不是不對但是會非常危險就是說前面的開放大家都拍手叫好我也支持啊但是後面產生出來的既然不是一個好效果是一個很嚴重的反效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15230.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15251.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
整個外籍看護在臺灣的流動的狀況不是缺了很多不是需要者有真正的進到這個家庭去做照護還是經常會發生這個外籍看護工一下子來到這個僱主一下子又換到了僱主平均做的時間不會超過一個月不會超過兩個月臺灣怎麼不會大亂所以我希望是在召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15257.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15276.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
今天是沒有針對法律的草案去修正還有一兩天的時間提供更精確的數據給我們所有委員做參考大家都是好意大家都希望朝向更便民的方式但是當這個人力的不足當外籍看護可以自由選擇僱主的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15279.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15305.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
你真的要思考的非常多的面向,包含這些重症的,包含國民黨委員提到的70到79歲的這些人,你的優先順序到底要怎麼排?你不要排到最後全部都是那個健康的都可以請到,都做了很久。我們還說這個台灣給外籍看護工的職場環境非常優,結果重症的,結果真正需求者通通被排擠掉。 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15306.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15331.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
那你現在要修哪條法律說他不可以隨便更換僱主?可以這樣做嗎?有法律可以定成這樣嗎?沒有喔!違反人權喔!請深思!請思考!謝謝!接下來我們請張家俊、張家俊、張家俊委員不在,我們請李燕秀委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15338.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15360.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
謝謝 我請何部長好 請何部長很好謝謝部長 部長辛苦了因為我今天時間不是太長我就直接就我的問題問我們現在過去民進黨執政的八年你也都在部會當中我們都特別關注少子女化的問題之前許部長是女性 你又是女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15361.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15381.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
我希望在這一塊有多一點的琢磨特別是我們過去賴總統也好蔡總統也好我們都關注少子女化的問題但是我非常遺憾的就是說這一次賴清德賴總統在520的就職演說當中其實只有輕描淡寫到托育長照設宅的政策要延續但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15381.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15399.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
對於我們現在今年內政部公布10號公布的這個月公布的我們現在的死亡數事實上已經高於出生數就是說過去40個月都是如此所以我們整體台灣現在是生不如死 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15400.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15427.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
在臺灣是生不如死喔那但是我非常遺憾就是說看到賴總統他對於少子女化的問題他著墨比較多的就是在托嬰托育的部分對於真正生育的部分我們沒有著墨太多他在這個總統的這個就職報告當中對外子說前瞻未來競逐太空佈局全球但是對於我們人民生育率的部分其實沒有著墨太多 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15427.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15448.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
所以外界就對於我們現在臺灣整體少子女化的問題被簡化成脫鈾的政策我相信這個不是我們所要看到的其實身為一個政府還是要想辦法去思考我們下一代下下一代我們如何增加我們的勞動率否則的話我們社會福利政策負擔會非常的重那我們都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15449.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15470.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
部長我長期有關注你也是女性我也是女性產假的部分我們到底要怎麼處理之前我問許部長他有一定的想法但是過去幾年他沒有機會往前再跨一步部長你對於我們剩下產假的延長在OECD國家我們產假現在的8週其實都是在落後當中產假部分的延長你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15471.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15488.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
委員就是我很肯定就是大家對於這個產價延長的這樣子的你的看法你不用肯定我們你的看法我時間不多我當然我也期待說當然能夠這麼做可是就是說我們必須要審慎的來考慮這一 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15491.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15510.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
你的考慮你是要你在哪些階段要做哪些事情我才可以看到就是有往前進一步的跨你永遠在你的部會裡面考慮你沒有往前跨一步這個時間就沒有進程你到底有哪些挑戰哪些阻礙你也要讓外界知道否則我就覺得說你關在你部會裡面這件事情連努力都沒有努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15510.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15525.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
我們必須要對少子女化的政策對外有一個交代包括外界婦女想要結婚產假的部分到底台灣的8週有沒有機會延長到10週、12週甚至14週然後產假的公共化政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15526.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15547.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
你的態度想法是什麼我覺得這幾年從許部長到我不知道你會不會怎麼做但是都在原地踏步對外界我們也沒有一個公聽會會遇到哪些挑戰我都沒有看到任何的數據資料出來所以我都會覺得你們沒有努力那賴總統到底支不支持這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15548.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15571.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
我們未來努力的方向要不要持續地做?我們可以來評估啦,積極來評估好不好,委員?就是說,主要是...過去有評估了許部長擔任幾年?四年還是五年?至少七年吧?七年吧?那你要怎麼評估?評估幾年?你的手段要多久?你的策略工具要多久?你的工具在哪裡?策略在哪裡?你要找哪些人來討論? |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15572.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15600.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
我至少要對外界我可以看得到嘛你至少產業界來開或產官學界來開我至少看到你有在動嘛否則你就是在裡面評估評估我就不要動不要動不要動所以我們現在產價八周是民國工廠法那時候民國18年有的八周到現在都已經都已經100年前的政策18年那時候18年前民國18年我們就是產價八周我們現在還在八周欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15601.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15629.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
部長委員其實我剛剛有說明我們要包括安胎假30天半薪產檢假一週有薪這個都過去但是這顯然部長聽我講因為時間已經到了就是外界對於這些事這就是說我覺得還是要往前跨一步就是說包括在產假的檢查現在只有7天我們公共我們的那個公費的檢查總共有14次所以無論是 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15630.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15633.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
公費檢查現在就有14天我覺得這個部分我希望你仔細的去思考還有包括今天我們討論到很多的就是巴士量表放寬的部分我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15655.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15671.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
每一個面向其實都要去思考就是說國人有這樣的需求特別是我們現在高齡化長照的需求2.0的需求也會越來越多怎麼樣面面俱到面面兼顧讓突然家庭有這個需求的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15672.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15695.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
不要找不到人而且變成要請假或變成我要從職場上我先暫時退出我想這不是你我需要的他不會是指是八十歲以上的問題他可能家中臨時有一個七十幾歲或六十幾歲的長輩突然面臨了突然生病有家裡有這個需求那怎麼去處理我覺得既然我們要修這個法我覺得就要把各式各樣的狀況考慮得更周全這才是 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15699.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15726.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
我覺得我們在長照部分我覺得都要都可以面面俱到的地方好不好那我的產價少子女化的部分我不希望只有賴清德總統停留在這個托育的政策上面我覺得應該是從解決更友善的這個生產環境開始去做處理好不好我期待看到你有一個比較完整的說明政策出來還有期程到底要怎麼做好不好謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15733.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15753.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
蔡易瑜本日會議詢答全部結束委員陳金輝、蘇清泉、邱若驊所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報現在作以下決議一、說明及詢答完畢二、委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15753.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15767.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
請相關機關於兩周內以書面答覆委員令要求其限則從其鎖定本日會議到此結束星期三早上九時三十分繼續審查現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15805.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15805.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
〔鈴響聲〕 |