| IVOD_ID |
15951 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15951 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-23-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-27T08:31:05+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-27T13:35:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:03:55 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd4197e6bbfb965dc7dbed544b35c5f3ca3be8d109af184be4dd477df6a4eaebb95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計11案。
【5月27日及29日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:05 - 13:35:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1741.798 |
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初期委員已足法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年5月20日星期一上午9時至11時20分地點本院紅樓201會議室初期委員林沛翔等15人練習委員林德福等9人 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1769.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1795.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立席關於交通部政務次長陳彥博等主席陳昭吉委員學生林委員沛翔代理報告四項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定邀請交通部國家運輸安全調查委員會及經濟部進行專題報告並備質詢本日會議由交通部政務次長陳彥博等報告後繼由委員林沛翔等13人提出質詢均經相關人員分別予以答覆決定一 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1795.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1823.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
報告及尋討完畢二、委員陳素月等11人所提數面執行列入紀錄並刊登公報。三、委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請將部級相關單位盡數以書面答覆。散會宣讀完畢。好請問在座委員對於上次會議的意思錄有沒有意見?沒有意見意思錄確定那現在介紹在場的委員林培祥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1826.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1852.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
廖謙祥委員、林國成委員介紹列席官員我們歡迎數位發展部新的部長黃彥男部長政務次長林怡靜次長數位策略司蔡壽全司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1855.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1881.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
任信建設師鄭明中師長支援管理師牛信仁師長數位政府師王成敏師長民主網路師莊盈智師長多元創新師陳怡君副師長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1884.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1893.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
主計處李錫東處長秘書處陳仲山處長資訊處吳英俊處長人事處莫永榮處長政風處許茂吉處長法制處張學文處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1914.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1940.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
數位產業署呂振華署長資通安全署謝翠娟署長國家資通安全院何全德院長行政院主計總署公務預算處檢任視察李培元 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1943.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1953.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
本日進行數位發展部業務報告及審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計11案。請黃部長報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1972.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1982.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
主席還有各位委員大家早我是數位發展部部長黃彥男以下我做下面大概10分鐘的業務報告下一張這是我們今天簡報大綱請參考下一張這個我們為了實現賴總統的科技智慧島跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1991.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2006.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
數位新社會我們數位發展部在近期提出了數位發展的三支鍵第一支鍵叫推動打詐工作第二支鍵叫強調數位韌性第三支鍵叫做發展數位經濟下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2009.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2037.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
發展數位經濟需要一條安全又快速的數位經濟高速公路數位發展部應該是要負責就是統籌跟協調相關部會來設計建造跟發展及管理這條數位經濟高速公路這條數位經濟公路必須要有韌性的特性也就是說它必須要結合4G、5G、6G、衛星、光纖、海底電纜、微波等通訊技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2039.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2059.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
來確保數位經濟的韌性,發展新興數位經濟產業並管理數位經濟高速公路的安全,訂定一些法律規範安裝網路偵測及防禦工具來防止犯罪集團利用這樣的一條數位經濟高速公路來進行不當或違法的工作下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2061.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2090.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
未來推動的重點就像剛剛所講的大概有三個重點就是一個打詐工作一個是數位任性一個是數位經濟下面簡報我會在每一個工作重點再做進一步的說明下一張好這個第一個工作就是打詐通報所謂這個打詐通報查詢網這個工作裡面其實我們是以大概幾個工作第一個就是我們要民眾可以如果民眾收到任何的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2091.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2108.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2108.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2109.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2131.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2145.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
當然在未來如果說有這個訊息如果確定是有問題的話我們在合法跟法律的容許之下我們會進行所謂的停止解析的工作來阻擋這樣訊息的流通下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2147.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2173.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那在技術面我們事實上有會公司協力來發展一些技術來進行阻詐跟堵詐的機制這裏面包括銀碼技術那包括短碼的跟簡訊的短碼的技術短碼跟然後短網址的技術那當然有一些組織這個這個網域這個阻擋的機制那網域阻擋機制已經我們已經開始在實施了就是說從去年一年我們有已經阻擋了4萬多件的所謂的詐騙網域 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2174.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2187.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那另外就是我們剛剛通過的電子簽章法那這個簽章法會讓我們將來在實施打炸會有更進一步的效果因為它最主要是裡面的數位簽章可以讓我們進行所謂的實名制來下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2189.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2204.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好那這個第三關支付是我們過去的確在詐騙上很多利用這樣的平台在做詐騙那經過我們這樣的處理以後原來第三關支付的業者也登記有一萬多家那經過我們的能量登錄管理以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2205.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2225.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
現在目前只有53家通過我們的所有能量登錄那因為這樣關係所以我們提供了所謂的第三萬支付的查詢跟通報平台那因為這樣的一個平台的設置我們大量阻止的這個所謂的在第三萬支付上的詐騙那有一個資料就是我們阻擋的相當多 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2225.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2239.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那因為這個這樣的一個合作第三次合作跟我們金管會合作在112年我們整個整體政府的效率已經阻擋了大概跟扣押的這個所謂的這個詐騙金額高達將近93億94億左右再下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2246.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2275.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那在這個遊戲點數方面這個金流的詐騙遊戲點數也是一種詐騙的一個管道那我們也在這裡面推動了幾個工作一個就是遊戲的延遲錄點那另外就是點數詐騙的封鎖平台的鎖卡平台那因為這樣的實施我們從過去每個月看到1600個左右的詐騙案到目前在今年的4月已經下降到差不多100多件當然我們還需要努力但是已經看到明顯的成果再下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2277.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2294.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
打詐裝法對我們來講是非常重要那有四個行業是我們所監管的那這四個行業裡面打詐裝法主要是讓我們有權利要求這些業者要落地他必須在法律代表那因為這樣關係他必須要配合我們的打詐的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2295.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2309.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
然後另外也就是說我們會要求他進行所謂的實名制在上面這個不管是廣告的出資人或廣告者本身都要提供實名制那這樣的話也會減少詐騙的可能跟管道再下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2310.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2328.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那在第二個工作就強調數位韌性那數位韌性主要是我們要建構多元易子且安全的通訊網路那裡面包括海陸空的應變網路那我們要提升通傳網路的防護跟普及通傳網路的建設那主要目的當然是後製我們通傳網路的韌性再下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2330.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2346.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那另外工作就是我們必須要開始規劃我們的評估的資源尤其是未來很快的6G就會進行可能會進行開始我們的研發跟部署所以我們在先期研究上我們在研究先推進網路的評估的一個資源的整備跟干擾的研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2346.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2366.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那當然衛星的一些評估的釋放跟衛星評估的準備那衛星還有衛星的主網的驗證然後供這個測量網的一些測試的一些環境的條件那一些還有就是我們數位通傳資源的規規費的制度然後等等等這個工作都是正在進行中再下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2368.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2390.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
再來就是一個治安法的推動。治安法我想有一個很重要的目的是合併我們訴發部的治安署是治安的主要的勸責機關。那我們就可以用這樣的擴大我們集合的範圍。然後另外就強化特定非公務機關的治安的要求。那同時也修正國家私通安全發展方案。那裡面當然包括人才培育等工作。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2390.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2400.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那當然我們必須跟國際合作,資安是個國際的連環。那我們利用這樣的一個工作能夠跟國際進行各樣的演練,跟各樣的親自的交換。再下一張。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2402.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2422.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
再來就是我們要強化國家的治安防護這裡面當然就是對我們的治安的防治機制跟CIP需有更好的防治那我們有個治安的聯防由我們數位發展部來負責那我們在過去這一年已經查獲從我們的公務部門的電子郵件我們大概4.3億電子郵件裡面查獲大概900多萬的二億郵件 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2426.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2436.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那當然這裡面包括有每個月我們攔截了13億次的資安攻擊然後有發布了92萬的親自的威脅的訊息好再下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2437.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2459.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那當然人才是非常重要所以我這邊強調就是說我們在預計在兩年配合1000名的資安人才是公務部門的資安人才那當然我們公務部門的資安人才需要的量也蠻多的那從這樣的一個program我們可以增加那當然另外一個我們也推動國家考試機制能夠從高普考裡面增加資安人才的禁用再下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2461.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2486.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那當然我們在這個政府的這個服務方面資安的服務方面跟這個我們韌性服務方面我們有一個服務的這個韌性巡航的建檢這裡面包括我們有這個資安法的這個防禦的這個集合團跟服務團那當然我們關於這個所謂數位巡檢可以幫提高我們政府資訊系統的可用性、易用性跟可維護性這個工作也是我們未來的工作重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2489.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2513.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
再來我們就談到數位經濟的發展當然數位經濟的發展AI是一個很重要的目標那我們就是要推動AI產業化產業AI化當然一個工作就是投射南北的AI生態園區我們必須上中下游整合這是台灣的機會然後希望這樣的一個推動然後能夠希望在我們在未來能夠在我們的這個產業能夠快速的發展再來下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2514.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2537.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
再來就是我們關於這個資安方面資安產業也是很重要的產業那113年已經大概整個產值我們國內的資安產值已經超過800億那我們預計未來幾年會有更多成長機會尤其是上中下軟硬整合我們應該會有更大的更快速的成長那當然這裡面我們也要強化不只是政府還有產業的資安防護再下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2539.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2560.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這個我們的產值畫面我們目前的所謂的這個產值這個我們把這個這個產值我們預計因為AI的導入推出這個AI還有資安還有整個軟體的這樣整個整合我們預計因為AI的熱潮跟AI的機會也就是說上中下整以後我們在很多產業就會利用AI會有很多應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2561.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2569.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這樣的軟體跟服務我們預計希望在2026年能夠破造這是我們的一個很重要的一個政策的目標再下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2571.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2590.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
人才永遠是一個我們的一個產業的一個很重要的基礎那我們當然就是在數位轉型畫面我們有所謂的提大使訓練年輕人來做從事數位轉型的工作那我們另外也要延展國際數位人才過去我們已經發卡就是所謂數位領域就業卡有303張在這個我們還會繼續持續進行更擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2597.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2612.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
再來就是我們那個數據的應用我們在過去我們的open data我們的資料的開放讓很多產業能夠利用能夠發展那未來我們還會持續的進行尤其是在隱私保護上我們會做更多的加強的技術的研發跟應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2614.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2630.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個以上是我在這個我們的業務報告的一個簡單的一個說明那我們進入所謂的另外一個今天要做的事情是預算解凍案那再下一張我們在113年目前預算被凍結有11案總共計合是6億850萬2000元那再下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2639.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2656.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
希望是因為我們工作包括積極推動達薩工作強化國家數位韌性及驅動數位經濟發展的三支箭達到心力及防病的雙重效果各項施政都需要配合這個數位發展部的循序推動因為因應業務的實際需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2659.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2681.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
以上預算凍結吭請各位委員支持並同意相關經費的凍資能夠讓各項業務能夠順利推動謝謝謝謝委員的支持謝謝現在要進行巡打先宣告一下事項巡打時間出席委員6加1分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2684.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2709.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
列席委員4加1分鐘委員發言登記於10點30分截止各委員如有提案請於10點前提出以便醫事人員會診暫定10點30分休息10分鐘左右中午原則上不休息現在請登記第一位委員廖先祥委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2725.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2727.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
好那就麻煩主席邀請我們黃部長請黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2736.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2757.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
好 部長好 部長 這個其實以我們選區民意代表來說 那選區民意代表大概最關心的應該是選區內的一個網路的一個普及度的一個問題 那我們數位發展部有針對 就是有定性一些辦法 就是針對法定的偏遠地區 那有一些補助的要點 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2759.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2765.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
好那這些補助的要點我不曉得您上任後有沒有同仁跟您報告怎樣叫做法定的偏遠地區 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2768.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2793.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
委員長,這是平原地區的服務的普及,那個矽脂東山里。第一個我想Fundamental原則是我們希望這個數位落差能夠縮減。所以各個鄉里應該都有很好的數位建設,包括網路的建設。所以這是我們推動的一個主要的一個方向。再來未來我上的也是一個操作方向去努力。 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2793.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2819.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
所以原則上我們現在的辦法大概是用行政區的平均人口來當作一個劃設的要點嘛對不對但是其實如果說有接觸過地方民政、理政的這個政府體系應該很清楚其實同一個行政區它的人口密度也會有相當大的落差可能就像一個新北市有一個新北市有一個板橋區可能新北市也有平溪區那在每一個行政區下面它可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2820.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2846.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
每個區可能像有的林口它一個里就兩萬多人了那有些像比較在平溪啊或者是比較偏向的地方它一個里可能就幾百人而已一百多個人所以說如果說單純以行政區來做一個補助的一個當作一個單位的話那可能會發現一個行政區它有的地方它的人口很密集它有些地方的人口它是非常稀少那它的通訊網路是非常的脆弱的 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2846.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2860.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那我不曉得這個補助要點或者是這個補助的對象的這個基準有沒有放寬的一個可能性不是放寬應該是說因地制宜的調整這樣子這個我請我們這個市長來做個更進一步的說明謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2863.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2884.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我想就以委員的以細節我們來為例我們舉例那剛剛委員其實說得很好我們針對普及服務這個機制已經從鄉鎮因為剛剛我們說的很多區他雖然人口低於51%或高於50%平均密度的五分之一但是他其實很多村里 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2884.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2885.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以之後會再調整嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2903.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2927.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
接下來請問一下另外一個問題就是我前一陣子也有去太平島當然我們這一次的業務概況報告裡面有提到我們太平島的通訊我們在113年4月的時候有提供太平島SES的中軌衛星訊號強化島上的通訊衛星但我們同樣的在我們報告裡面有看到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2928.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2954.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
第12頁的部分有提到說我們目前有關於軌道衛星的申請。SES目前是只有阿爾康資料處理股份有限公司有在有申請嘛,申請許可。那我們中華電信股份有限公司是以OneWeb的這個衛星來當作一個衛星的一個合作對象嘛。那我想確認一下因為太平島他算是比較軍事這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2957.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2959.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
中華電信目前有取得SES的合作衛星嗎?夥伴啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2980.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3007.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
因為現在的剛剛提的衛星有兩種一個是用驗證的方式所以中華電信在太平島上面現在SES是驗證是透過POC的方式在處理那原先還有ST2是用商轉的方式是高軌衛星目前太平島因為是軍事區就像委員說的他是管制區所以他的這個比較管制上比較嚴格所以他上面的通訊網路不需要透過這個另外的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3008.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3009.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3035.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3050.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
就以不管是我們台灣本島或是外島將來應該都是可以以100%的涵蓋率來改善我們全台灣的通訊網路設備這應該是沒有問題嗎?應該沒問題啊衛星在天上那個應該沒有什麼特別的視角除了你在山谷裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3050.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3065.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
是,所以100%那我們這樣子數位我們數發部啦如果說以100%為目標的話我們有沒有設定一個目標年希望能夠我們全台灣利用衛星網路在民國幾年之前可以達到100%的數位網路的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3067.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3084 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
今年底他接下來的目標是今年底所以就是今年2024年底2024年底我們全台灣可以透過衛星網路達到全台灣除了剛剛部長講的可能地形的關係原則上是涵蓋全台灣100%的一個網路通訊設備的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3086.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3107.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
好那這部分的一些基礎設置設備建置啦因為微信網路還是有一些需要有一些這個資訊接收的一些設備嘛那原來上這些東西是我們也是同步都會把它建置好嗎對都會引進好就是今年為目標然後全台灣100%的涵蓋率來完成這樣子好謝謝部長謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3112.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3130.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
要先請委員發言完畢,現在請林國成委員發言請我們黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3140.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3140.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3161.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3176.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我要請教我們部長因為過去你在產業界來我要請教你一個就是今天的報告補充理由跟這一本的業務報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3178.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3201.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
到底要用哪一本?沒關係,不用緊張啦,保證我們是來探討問題我要請教你這一本有沒有看過?有,看兩遍那這些是榮收版對,這個是把重點在業務報告的前期也就是把因為我們要做的事情很多那我把重點未來的前期部長,我告訴你這一本我都拜讀過 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3203.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3220.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
就跟唐鳳部長70%完全一模一樣本席非常在乎也一直在提醒我記得NCC就被我退過一次到現在都還沒有補部長我只是告訴你這一篇裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3221.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3241.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
只有第1項、第8項、第9項是新的文字更改其他一模一樣計報告委員因為施政要延續所以我們不肯是我知道啦施政要延續但是新的部長跟舊的部長作法會不一樣嘛就像你這一本 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3242.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3257.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
你就談得很清楚這是你要施政的這些方向所以我要建議部長我要建議部長沒有苛責的意識我希望你這個榮收板再補一份書面資料給各 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3258.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3281.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
委員這個這一本反而是清清楚楚啊知道黃部長要做的跟那個唐部長完全不一樣啊所以這裡不一樣就是你的三支箭跟那個唐部長完全不一樣啊其實我蠻在乎這個風氣也就是不要延續性的政策我贊同 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3281.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3311.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
但是不要一字不漏的這樣去抄這不是一個經營企業或者一個部會應有的所以這點我給部長一個建議好不好所以希望你這個很明確未來你要做的事情是跟委員來報告接下來要審預算所以你叫我們如何去支持你的預算很簡單就是你的方向跟你的報告我們認為可行我們就支持啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3311.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3312.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
不是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3312.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3318.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
所以部長,就是好像說不用緊張啦,這我們就要探討一個理由啦,好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3318.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3335.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
好,謝謝,謝謝。那另外一個齁,另外一個,我還是這樣啦齁,我還是鼓勵啊,你是產官學都做過,所以我還是蠻希望部長在這個部分要發揮你的常財,我一再提醒政務官, |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3335.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3358.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
不能用政黨色彩在做老百姓的事立法委員也是在做老百姓的事部長也是在做老百姓的事所以在這個部分我真的蠻期待我們黃部長在這個部分真的要為老百姓來做事那我看到你的報告基本上當然你有你的新的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3359.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3379.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
另外一個我又要跟部長來探討的就是詐騙礦場的這個部分那當然因為你這個三字件這裡面確確實實有這個部分那這個部分我還是覺得現在包括檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3380.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3408.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
包括任何老百姓的感覺在這個部分已經大家可以看部長你可以看我們近5年來的詐騙案子他日益跟一心喔他完全他的態度跟以前打打電話去詐騙的動作現在不是喔只要簡信傳給你一案就被騙所以他是日心夜意的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3408.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3428.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
的那個方法所以我要認為數位部要比他們更先進這是我個人的主張跟個人的建議所以啊在這個部分我不曉得我們部長針對這個部分應該要如何來應對是不是我時間給你你可以說明一下嗎好謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3429.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3457.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那個我在我的打那個三支箭裡面第一支箭就打炸那打炸我體驗第一個就是說我們今天有個工具就是我們打炸法已經出了行政院希望委員能夠支持然後趕快通立法通過通過之後我們會對這個這個打炸至少有法可罰可以可以管理他們會這個比如說比如說廣告平台上必須落地等等等會實名制都我們都可以強迫他們進行那我們另外的重要工作是我們會有一個打炸的通報查詢網 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3458.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3478.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3478.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3499.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
如果你不要輕易相信收到了任何訊息如果不確定就到我們的打炸查詢網去看是不是已經有人通報過或者希望能夠在所謂的因為我們打炸有幾個步驟試炸是第一步如果我們知道這是詐騙訊息我們就不會被騙所以我們會加強試炸工作從這個服務來提供給民眾做一個很快的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3499.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3523.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
好部長這裡面有兩個問題打詐當然就是要追根就底現在有國內的不管是LINE也好什麼也好有幾個管道這個是國際涉在國際在台灣我們是沒有辦法追的這個第一你如何去突破第二因為打詐的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3525.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3550.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
數位的部分是你負責但是治安調查的部分是內政部負責是跨部會的這個部分所以你如何去把它整合或者建議行政院要有一個指揮專責機構這個很重要喔不要做個人做個人這樣到最後所有的所有的法條過了以後還是前功盡棄這個部分這兩個請部長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3553.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3574.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我們本來就是一個跨部會的合作那行政院這個成績我們已經有個打詐的一個這樣的辦公室但是我們剛剛講這個打詐這個我們這個打詐查詢網會讓我們很快的能夠通報整個包括警政署包括其他部會來進行打詐的工作然後希望能夠很快速做處理來加速我們處理這個打詐的這個這樣的一個時程讓打詐的這個能夠詐騙時間減少很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3579.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3604.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
另外一個就是國外的這些LINE阿或者臉書這個部分打詐專法會要求這些人在台灣要落地或者有法律代表我們會跟這些人就是他們如果不配合包括打詐工作我們可以對他罰款那希望用這個方式來強迫他們跟著我們配合部長我這樣大概啦齁我還是了解但是剛剛我所執行的我希望你剛剛的簡便的報告這個寫的比 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3606.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3629.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
比這個你的報告書裡面更清楚我希望你補給我們委員會所有的委員更了解啦好不好那我也啟齊啊就是部長要好好的來把這份工作把它做好因為打炸這些不管幾支箭啊有成果就有箭沒有成果完全沒有箭好不好我還是啟齊你好不好好謝謝好謝謝林國成委員發言完畢現在請林俊憲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3644.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3647.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
謝謝主席本期邀請我們數法部黃部長請黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3657.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3680.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
部長今天很多人都在關心那個大片的問題我想你剛上任大家一定也期許數發部在未來打詐方面要有相當的作為那你也把打詐好像列為你非常重要的工作所以你特別提出打詐的方法等等之類的那你覺得現在詐騙最嚴重的是在哪裡網路詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3683.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3688.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那根據我們行政檢察局警政署的統計資料現在投資詐騙案就是騙你來買投資買股票大概佔了31% |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3700.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3719.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
可能是因為所謂投資股票就是會有賺錢,人性的貪戀。現在的很多廣告都是以投資詐騙,智能占了三成。比前年,去年就11000多件,比前年多了快80%。 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3721.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3738.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
所以成長最多就是這種所謂騙你來投資詐騙尤其用名人用一些社會的名人當作誘餌那現在你覺得最大問題是什麼為什麼這種網路網路廣告詐騙廣告這麼猖獗 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3740.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3764.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那個 報告委員 那個當然我們有幾個平臺 那個就是剛剛講像Meta的那個Facebook 然後Line 然後像Google這些平臺 那我想這個很多廣告是從這邊出來的啦 那我們當然就是說 我剛剛特別強調就是說我們希望打造專法通過之後 這些廣告平臺商會在台灣設法律代表或是落地啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3764.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3792.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那如果他們能夠那個配合我們政府來做眨眨工作把這些凍結之後我相信這個方面在所謂名人廣告各方面應該會大量而且是我們之前我們推動現在我們現在有電子簽章法然後數位簽章通過之後我們可以要求登廣告的第一個一定要一定要有數位簽章一定要是確認是KYC是本人才能夠包括廣告投放跟出資者都要能夠那現在法例沒有通過以前你就你就沒辦法管他嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3793.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3820.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
法律沒有通過以前我們現在的做法是這個基本上就立法修法需要一段時間啊之前就是因為這個數位服務法卡了那麼久啊對所以你現在不能說我們必須要有法律通過啦你才能做事情所以以前的通報是這樣子跟委員報告以前通報是我們民眾報告到165然後165處理這個時程可能要隔個比如說半天一天以上時間才會通報這個這個向Facebook去處理那我們現在這個剛剛講這個打造通報這個查詢網 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3823.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3848.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
你現在要建立一個打詐的平台你是準備要取代165我們那個還是要做現在是一個疑似詐騙跟真正被詐騙是兩回事所以疑似詐騙就可以到通報來查詢我跟你說啦你現在最重要還是源頭管理啦你現在是他律嘛你現在講的是政府要去約束這些平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3849.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3870.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
但是在所謂的打詐第一個要做的就是這些平台要自律目前他們完全不做相關的事情根據我們政府檢證署統計的資料我們把詐騙的廣告拉下來那數量是非常大好幾萬筆廣告通通拉下來但是你拉下來以後沒多久他又會上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3871.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3891.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
而且廣告內容一模一樣表示說這些平台都是被動在處理當我們發現這是詐騙你通報他他會做啦但是新的上來他不管啦你聽我意思嗎?他要賺錢啊但這些平台都忘記他還是有社會責任啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3894.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3908.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以我們應該要求他們啦你現在要先自律啦你平台應該要先去核實要去了解這些尤其是商業廣告啦目前你剛講的那種實名制政治廣告要不要實名制 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3910.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3932.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
所有廣告都要實名證沒錯嗎現在沒有啦現在只有政治廣告啊現在只有政治廣告要認證啦那商業廣告為什麼不要詐騙在商業廣告嘛所以我們就打詐狀況通過之後他們也對你現在雖然是無法可管對現在是無法但是期望很快但是你應該要求這些平台業者啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3933.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3937.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我會常常找他們來我辦公室喝咖啡啦然後道德勸說啦那這個我們會繼續建立跟他們的關心希望他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3961.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3963.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我會跟他們講,你們如果不配合,我以後就跟大家宣傳,以後在臉書上看到廣告都不會了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3977.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4005.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
他拉下來的照片廣告很多啦跟上去的差不多啦就說這個東西可以用敢講道德在法規通知過以之前道德勸說威脅然後看看能不能就是所以這些平台業者他現在怎麼對付你就是你有通報好我就配合你政府拉下來但是呢新的廣告來錢送上來我廣告費照收一括照片的幾乎啦甚至有些內容一模一樣的照上這樣你怎麼抓得了 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4008.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4032.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
所以既然我們的政治廣告都要求實名制的,未來商業廣告也是一定要,對,這我已經同意已經發生了那麼多那麼多的詐騙案件嘛,是不是這樣子對,我想就是我們從法規從剛剛講就是這個從很多的這個我們私底下我們都可以去要求啦希望他們配合度高一點這樣然後看看這個所謂的這個人民跟詐騙廣告或是各式各樣在平台業者的廣告能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4033.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4034.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
數位服務法你預計的? |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4063.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4075.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
打大專法打大專法打大專法對打大專法將來這些商都要去因為歐盟大概是全世界最早通過數位服務法的地方你看到今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4077.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4092.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我們的數位服務法開第一槍就是去調查推特啦推特上播不實的訊息在那個以色列跟巴勒斯坦那個的那個戰爭的時候你知道吧也就是說所謂的政府該管的不是只有詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4094.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4114.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
現在因為詐騙最嚴重所以我們大家當然關注點在這裡但是我希望你會還有其他很多我們應該要處理的你必須同步的就是我們的法律也必須要跟得上我希望在你上任以後應該盡速推動相關的立法工作好不好跟社會以及跟國會議員應該多做溝通好謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4119.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4138.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
林俊憲委員發言完畢部長先等一下那剛才不是威脅業者應該是督促相關業者請你更正好那我們現在請林佩祥委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4150.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4151.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
主席有請黃部長請黃部長部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4166.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4182.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
歡迎來到這個政治界那這個是一個您的您現在進入是2024年這是個任重道遠的事件最現實就是說我們現在看到的所有民眾關心的全部不只是國家關心甚至全球關心的都是您的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4183.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4207.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
請看一下這邊全球2024年十大風險兩年之內有關直接有關數位發展部的就有一跟四假訊息跟不安全的網路世界十年之內全球關心的裡面就有三項跟我們這個速發部有絕對的關係錯誤訊息AI不良技術跟不安全的網路世界甚至社會的極端化都有關係下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4209.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4238.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
而最現實是今年今年五大大家最關心的風險裡面有兩個一個是AI一個是網路攻擊所以說本席認為您在這上面來講你其實說AI內閣倒不如如果講這是AI內閣的話其實您數位發展部的責任非常的重因為我們想到AI我們不會想到行政院我們不會想到其他什麼法務部內政部我們只會想到讓我們數位發展部做了些什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4239.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4264.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
剛剛林國成委員講的很好那本書如果都是照以前唐鳳部長留下來的話那會讓我們國人非常的失望因為我如果記得沒有錯的話在這個所謂的打架打炸國家隊基本上我對國家隊這三個字都是充滿的失望從頭到尾我沒有聽到國家隊真的對我們民眾特別有感打炸國家隊三大戰犯裡面數位發展部NCC金管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4265.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4270.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那我會認為說這就是上面來講我們先直接從打詐開始講解好了下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4272.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4290.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這是我們知道全國人民認為的事情也就是詐騙訊息接受的經驗加起來不多87.9%比87%好一點將近88%也就是如果直接換算成全國人民的話我們將近2300萬人裡面有2100萬人收到詐騙訊息請問部長您怎麼看這個現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4296.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4326.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4328.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4355.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
我完全認同你講的話但是我也必須幫您開脫一句話這句話我希望您帶給行政院因為打詐也好有關避免我剛剛講的所有風險來好你數位發展部一個部來處理所有的事情你預算不見得比人家高但是你這樣負責的東西比人家重得多而全國民眾看到的都是你他們甚至不會把NCC放在第一線全部都是數位發展部該做什麼數位發展部既然你是科技部數位發展部但是如果做不到就是你的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4356.454 |
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4374.23 |
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因為所有人都只看懶人包所有人都只看標題式標題式的新聞如果有什麼地方做不好打詐詐騙科技詐騙出來賴詐騙出來FB詐騙出來名人詐騙出來第一個想到的數位發展部他們不會想到NCC他們不會想到金管會他們不會想到內政部對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4375.57 |
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4394.519 |
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我剛剛就委員報告就是說這個打炸的這個工作是這是跨部會的整合要有效果一定是資訊流人流跟金流要一起合作那當然這裡面我們在資訊流我們盡量去阻擋那當然我就剛講因為資訊流管道太多不可能完全擋得住所以最重要還是在教導民眾試炸 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4395.439 |
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4424.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那事詐就有所謂的我剛剛講的打詐呼這樣查詢網就通報查詢網就是讓民眾去增加事詐的能力能夠希望能夠民眾減少因為你收到假訊息你也知道說這個是假的你就比較不會進入所謂金流那一段的詐騙部長這就是再下一頁部長這就是講你請看這個我後面的powerpoint這才是最我覺得本席覺得最悲哀最可惜的地方我們居然有43%的民眾如果被詐騙了之後居然是自認理虧耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4425.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4437.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那現在不管說是身為技術deep fake還是說AI生成的工具還是生成是AI的所有東西導致說我們上次看到我們葛如軍委員去質詢前行政院長陳建仁的書後 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4441.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4467.143 |
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那陳建仁陳院長不會覺得這個不會是個幽默感而是直接的大發雷霆因為他覺得他被騙了可是他被騙了之後呢他還有人可以去抱怨因為他知道誰在騙他他知道誰在開這個玩笑但是一般的人有什麼人可以他有什麼人可以去幫忙這件事情呢他們向警政機關求助向反詐騙相關單位求助但是最多的時候啊算了 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4467.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4479.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那我們剛剛前一夜我們看到他們詐騙金額都落在哪裡一萬到五萬甚至再來再要告訴十萬以上在我們我記得去年如果沒有錯的話好像在我們全國的GDP好像將近3%被詐騙的金額這實在是件 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4482.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4495.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
害人聽聞的事情對吧?對,同意不過跟委員報告我剛剛講就是說我們其實你這邊列的是被騙但是事實上我們希望減少是被騙也就是說詐騙的數目的數目不會減少但是我們希望被騙的少很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4499.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4524.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那為什麼可以被騙少很多就是我們用一些科技技術比如AI技術剛剛講用我們這個打造查詢網跟這個這個通報查詢網希望被騙能夠大量減少這是我們一開始能夠做的最主要工作也是希望在短期之內能夠看到的就會我們書發部的一些措施能夠讓民眾知道什麼樣去查詢然後減少被騙的機會跟次數這是我我們其中的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4525.507 |
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4552.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
被騙人的訊息可能不會減少可是被騙的次數一定會減少部長其實我剛剛其實您這個數位發展部裡面最重要的業務好像不是打雜而是所謂的民主網路跟所謂其他的這個數位經濟的發展但是這方面前面我當然讀過你們的整個預算我對你們後來凍結預算我還有其他的意見不過因為時間的關係我想提醒部長一件蠻重要的事也就是剛剛召委特地提過的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4554.43 |
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4582.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我比較希望說我在看到未來的每一位部長上面來講所謂接地氣或言語上面的用詞要相當的精準因為每一個言語上面的用詞不精準的話會讓人家誤解說您是否對這份工作是不是不夠尊重當我們聽到一些接地氣的語言的時候我就不再最初接地氣語言是寫什麼我們希望是down to earth不是單單純純的slang |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4590.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4609.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我希望這句話,我知道部長是長官學的高手我知道部長是有國外經驗的CEO所以請您好好做好您特地從業界轉來CEO的職責。以上。好,謝謝,謝謝委員。謝謝林佩祥委員的發言。下一位我們請李坤澤召委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4616.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4619.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
謝謝主席請一下黃部長有請黃部長部長您好當然林佩祥委員剛才已經提到重點打詐是數位部的一個工作之一當然對於推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4640.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4655.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
護行的這樣的一個數位政府以及推動數位產業經濟甚至是資安這都是數位部的一個重要的工作項目那當然目前大家都集中在於相關的詐騙的這樣的一個議題這也是對於詐騙在數位領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4661.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4676.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
的這樣一個案件竹簾上升成為國家重要的議題因為他造成個人或是企業的重大損失之外對於社會的安全跟穩定其實也造成很大的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4677.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4700.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
所以我想很多的委員大家都重視相關的對於打詐尤其是網路詐欺的這個部分那其實我們看到2023年的詐騙件數的一個統計詐騙的總件數是成長了將近三成那其中最大的部分就是投資詐欺的件數成長了將近八成這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4702.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4730.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
嚴重的狀況大家對於數位部的要求跟期待就會越來越高那相關的前五大的詐騙類型包括投資詐欺解除分歧的這種付款的詐欺ATM或者是這種假網路的拍賣購物或者是一般購物的詐欺就是偽稱買賣這個部分甚至假愛情交友 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4730.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4743.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
都建樹的也都非常的多那我們現在社會大眾對於數位部新的部長我們期待你對於打造有更具體的策略以及你預期的目標給你時間簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4747.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4772.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
謝謝委員我一直強調就是說我們在這裡面第一個當然是法的通過電子簽商法跟這個所謂打造裝法大概應該短期之內通過這給我們一些工具對這個一些我們尊管的業者像網路平台廣告商、電商、第三方制服還有遊戲商能夠做進一步的監管跟處理也可以要求他們配合我們打造的政府的打造的一些行動跟工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4772.944 |
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4798.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
那當然在我剛一直強調說我們希望有個很快的一個打造一個服務我能夠提供這個打造通報跟查詢那民眾可以很快的去查詢我現在收到訊息是不是可能詐騙那用這個方式我們很快把這個東西再分流然後讓這個各個部位能夠很快看到最新的詐騙的方的一些訊息能夠就即時的處理那當然我們會推動像這個所謂的短碼跟簡碼的這樣的短碼跟短網址還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4802.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4819.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
這個所謂的銀馬的系統來讓我們能夠瞭解什麼樣的訊息是可信任就建立可信任訊息的傳遞的方式而讓我們民眾的可信任的這個訊息的這些相關的建構你預計在什麼時候之內可以完成初步的建構呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4819.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4848.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
對111這樣的一個建構已經推動而且我們目前得到的效果還蠻好的就是政府的這個端碼那另外就是說關於這個我也跟其他部會談過像這個以後的像金管會的銀行也會有端碼然後我們的這個其他部會如果是一個可信任的商業的公司都應該要申請端碼這個應該是在短期之內短期是多短期這個目前是期望在年底之前大概在年底之前對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4849.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4868.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
希望趕快的推動當然防患這種數位的詐騙當然要加強第三方的這種支付的管理剛才提到中央政府有反詐釋法洗錢防治法科技偵查及保障法通訊保障及監察法還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4869.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4896.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
打擊犯罪的危害防制條例那我們看到建清檢改就是由很多的檢察官所組成的這個團體他們有多次的研討會也具體的建議要加強第三方支付管理業的這些管理那當然第三方的支付管理其實有三大難處第一個綁定信用卡手機不用進行本人的驗證第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4897.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4900.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管． |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4915.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4934.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我們如何去做有效的這些規範如何要求業者建立數據庫或者是要記錄金流跟交易的這些記錄以及KYC就是身份確認要求平台來做商業的確認要建立聯訪的平台來做處理跟規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4936.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4960.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
數位部有沒有具體的做法跟目前的進度來說明一下?報告委員第一個就是說剛剛這邊有一個數目就是我們有一萬多個第三方支付的業者那我們要求他們現在做能量登錄那能量登錄結果目前只有53家通過那便於我們管理那在這53家裡面我們也要求他對這個申請的人要進行所謂的使名字KYC的驗證 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4962.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4965.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況．一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況． |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4980.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5004.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
謝謝委員給我們補充的機會就是剛剛部長提到的就是現在只有53家那通過我們登錄的部分呢那銀行那邊才能給他做虛擬賬號那虛擬賬號因為這個經過我們檢查也確認了所以不會有一萬多家的因為那個以前在商業司的時候因為他不是特許行業所以他就可以在他的營業項目說要做第三方支付可是有些並沒有來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5005.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5022.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那所以我們就這一陣子將把它建立制度那部長來之後也來支持我們繼續把這樣的聯訪做得更好那打詐專法的部分在我們數位經濟那一個專章針對第三方支付也有相關的條文那所以這個是整體的配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5022.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5037.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那可以讓第三方支付剛剛的委員所提到這些難點的部分那其實在管理上面是有強化那也謝謝金管會來幫我們謝謝好我們還是要進一步的建立就是說嚴厲建立相關的平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5038.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5054.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
範售商家以及廣告人的這個責任規範要去做研議但是這個要非常的謹慎因為爹怕屎啦、飯怕杯啦就是說我們對於相關的這些平台、範售商家及廣告人這種責任的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5055.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5072.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
必須要符合可以實施的這樣的一個基本的規範你太嚴格的話對於相關的這些的數位或是網路的這樣的一個生態我想部長也非常清楚這個是一個必須更謹慎的去來做研議跟處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5073.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5101.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那我們也要建立金流異常的這種市井的機制這個部分來部長說明一下我們同意賬戶依照資本額或者是自行申報的使用金額來設置警戒線或者是出現大筆多筆但是大量超出警戒線的異常金流時或者是系統應該警示提醒第三方置物業者及相關管理人員注意異常的情況這個數位部有沒有具體的一個作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5102.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5117.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
報告委員 這個建議都很好我們已經做一件事情就是我的了解在我上任之前我們有補助向富邦銀行做鷹眼系統那就是在偵測這些所謂金牛的帳號的異常 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5118.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5140.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那經過實施之後效果很好所以現在就是說也跟金管會討論就是說有些類似這樣的系統可以擴散到其他銀行希望從金流去阻擋這個異常的金流所以剛剛委員這邊的建議我們都會再加強跟深化去讓這樣的系統能夠廣佈在所有的金融單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5141.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5155.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
部長現在這種數位或是網路的詐欺啊他的新型態的這樣的一個發聲啊其實是屢見不鮮啊那這個部分我們看看這個美國商業 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5157.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5173.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
商業改進局他有示警就是說相關的新型態的電子郵件的詐騙以AI模擬上司或同事的語氣寄送偽造電子郵件或者是語音信息來指示匯款或是進行語音測錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5175.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5204.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我們常常接到詐欺電話讓你講話他都不講話就是說他要測入你相關的這樣的一個語音的這樣的一個狀況或是智慧電視也可能遭到入侵藉由影音平台APP來竊取各自的問題這些新興科技的詐騙我們如何來強化國際的交流建立聯訪機制或是我們有進一步針對這些新興的這些網路的詐欺的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5205.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5234.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
以及手法我們有沒有進行研究或初步的這樣的一個處理的規範來說明一下謝謝委員那個尤其最近在第一個我們當然跟國際的多合作啦我想國際這個合作一定要因為我們剛剛講說我們要跟國際交流這樣的情資各樣的技術那我們自己本身也有也是在發展一些AI技術比如說像DFAQ的偵測我們還有就是剛剛講的語音的這種假冒的偵測我們當然也希望自己本身有這樣能力能夠做一些判讀那給民眾使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5234.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5262.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
那更重要是現在就是說我們以後聽到電話或是看到語音因為有這種這樣的AI技術其實都不能夠輕易的相信那怎麼做呢就會有人建議比如說要通關密碼有些東西你要確認講話的真的是本人那這個可能也要跟民眾做這樣的教育就是基本上我想在這個這個時代的確我們對很多東西都要帶著一點懷疑那用各式各樣用技術方法用我們指揮的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5263.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5263.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
議員．綜合報告業務概況． |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5286.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5297.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
必須針對相關的防詐不管是法令、政策以及具體的作為這才是主要的一個推動的目標以上一個提醒謝謝現在請魯明哲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5322.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5325.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
好謝謝主席有請我們黃部長請黃部長部長早第一次見面好委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5335.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5353.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
這個因為你在上任之前也看到不管是報章媒體的一個訪問也看到你一個初步的一個想法那我對你是有非常高的一個期待有很多在想法上面我也給你肯定第一個因為這個兩年前我一上台就講 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5355.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5368.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
這個數發部的時候就被唐部長指證他說我們叫數位部不叫數發部兩年之後謝謝你你上任之後其實我們比較在發展方面要特別講出來那我個人是真的認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5369.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5395.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
因為如果數位部長期發展把自己當作一個監管單位或說我自己如果說數位當然就是我們怎麼樣去管別人怎麼樣去管理怎麼樣去研究科技大概比較著重在這個方面那發展的話一個剛剛感覺是煞車啦我們真的是需要一個油門啦因為這個世界數位經濟發展得不得了我們如果每天只研究我們煞車要用哪一種煞車最準 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5395.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5419.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那不是啊那誰帶頭衝啊其實我們當時覺得這個我們數發部是有這種概念那你們要再講一下你的想法對我剛講就是說其實未來的我們國家經濟的發展我們的目我們的機會在數位經濟啦那數位經濟所以我剛講說數位經濟在發展裡面其實有兩個一個當然就是我們要新力當然叫房幣那新力才是我們最重要的目標啦所以本 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5420.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5421.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
數位發展部主管預算凍結案計11案 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5440.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5455.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我們必須對目前看到的所謂的問題要做個處理一個當然是詐騙那另外一個就是治安的這會各自入侵攻擊還有各自竊取各自的問題要先處理那這個也是我在上任之後先要處理的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5456.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5480.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
好 謝謝部長的一個簡要的一個說明那第一個我們看到不同嘛第二個不同的話我也覺得你這個符合我們很多可以講說國民朋友跟我們大部分委員的一個期待因為確實啊因為我們的訴發部是一個新的部會大家都希望他展現功能啦看到功能之後大家覺得你未來有什麼樣的一些不管是出國旅費佔的比重 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5481.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5503.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那就比較大家不會這麼complain那事實上在第二年的時候我們發覺出國旅費的金額是蠻高的而且是可以講說舉國化然那我這邊來講我聽到你的說法但我是簡單來講就是不是那麼重要打詐優先希望把這經費移到最重要的一個部分比如說不出國你說希望能夠減掉20% |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5505.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5520.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
然後呢,之前跟唐副部長也交流很多次啦。他說堅持是眉毛事實上都有很必要的。那我看到你們一個想法不同啊。但是我是覺得我看到你的學經理我個人是非常佩服。台大畢業去美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5521.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5543.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
整個留學到博士然後在美國的一個企業包括 AT&T也擔任要職然後回台灣之後事實上有很長的一段時間在政府的不管是數位、科技、資安的這個領域所以我覺得產官學你都已經經歷過一遍了那我覺得科技人講的是第一個我們就科學很多東西都有數據化 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5544.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5571.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我們要講的有拼有據這是我對你的期待所以你一上任就說要刪掉20%的出國預算一波打炸經費這是正確的嘛那我覺得你要刪掉哪20%的費用哪幾次的出國是你覺得因為我覺得你是科學人嘛我一上台看我不是擲筊就目前你覺得在今年的預算裡面有哪出國到日本出了哪幾次會議你覺得是不要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5571.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5571.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5589.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5616.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
所以你現在也沒有辦法明確說你看到這麼多出國預算因為我講說就事論事嘛齁我們變成這個預算錢是一個問題每一個錢都注入到一次的出國旅遊那我們希望聽到的是未來啦好不好你回去研究一下啦總是有幾次它的重要性是A有些重要性是B有些重要性是C有些是兩年出國一次的這個不能希望聽到科學人的一個說法嘛再來這個刪除20%的預算基礎是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5620.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5627.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
他的基礎就是今年的出國旅費是多少錢?今年是4千就請那個市長再出網報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5628.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5652.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
謝謝委員可以時間補充說明那今年的預算本部加兩署是4400萬那明年的部分是3300萬那主要減少的部分是有些在國際上的合作那我們希望說對方如果可以到台灣來那我們就盡量邀請對方到台灣那這樣就可以減少我們一些費支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5654.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5665.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
民主網絡司司長司長3300萬先扣掉再補強一下到底哪些旅遊你目前明確了嗎明年度明年度的預算已經是3300萬我們部長上來沒幾天還是原來就變3300萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5678.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5706.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
你原來就編3300萬還是部長上去不是原本是編4400萬原本然後你把它撤回來重送嗎在送出去之前我們重新再檢討一次就是有些可以邀請什麼時候送出去的在上個禮拜上禮拜送出去好那你這個部分部長應該要知道我們檢調哪些啦怎麼樣比較清楚報告委員這個是我有這個請就我有仔細看過對就是有覺得可以刪了我們就刪這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5707.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5716.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
好那我想希望部長也理解一下齁因為去年度我們在省今年度的預算其實總出國的經費不是4460萬是5109萬那經過了我們大家因為民間覺得說這樣不行嘛我們是刪掉了468萬才有4460萬啦所以當然你從4460萬往下減齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5729.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5744.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
對那我們覺得重點的精華的A級的會議我們去參加就好了嘛其他的部分總指部隊去回來再教我們啦所以我覺得你這個部分我是支持的那我想這次的解凍報告解凍報告那個有11項部長有看嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5747.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5764.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
但是那個細節不是很清楚但是我看過對解凍的細節你看過吧那你一上任就大家對你期待很深啊我刪除20%的那個出國預算啊可是解凍報告裡面有兩條說我要拜託你們幫我解凍我出國預算啊那是幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5765.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5790.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
不是啊 我們說真的你打仗要立即成效我真的支持你啊所以我今天沒有問我總要看一下你們的表現嘛不要一下就說你們不行可是你今天才講的這件事情對明年的我理解嘛可是你上任有沒有什麼事情可以現在做呢因為那你現在結論報告裡面有兩項其中第6點是你們速發布的速發布的其中1865萬的出國費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5793.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5819.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
其實只凍結十分之一啦只凍結186萬啦就在今天解凍啦你剛上任我也不想找麻煩啦我建議啊既然解凍出來你可能也沒有太了解裡面的實質內容因為有100多頁部長不一定有時間可以看可是你的政策下面在提這個的部分啦還把它寫得洋洋灑灑的我覺得不太妥當啦不太妥當我建議啊就算通過了這186萬你就不要用啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5820.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5832.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
另外我們那個資安署的929萬是整個木去凍結的就算你平均分配到你們那裡面929萬才4%啦你們在提這個報告的時候我最後講一句 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5839.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5859.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
部長的政策我也拜託這邊大部分公務人員我相信大家就是把國家的事情做好就好了可是部長的政策只是你們在治理行間很容易你知道嗎讓他覺得說啊變成因為這是部長簽名嘛部長拜託大家解凍了所以你要解凍的總共啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5860.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5884.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
總共才沒多少錢啊我是希望從今年就開始實現你的承諾這些才凍結差不多兩百萬的預算啊就算解凍給你啊你也暫時框起來不要用好不好跟我們說明一下的確那個因為我們今年跟國外在爭取之下已經有些部分國際的會議願意到台灣來辦了那所以相關的經費會減下來是減下來嗎好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5888.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5907.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
好謝謝魯明哲委員發言完畢現在請徐富奎委員發言謝謝主席有請黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5917.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5942.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
部長早首先我想部長有很豐富的一個學經歷的背景那現在也帶領我們數位部的新的團隊面臨我們現在的一個很大的一個新增的一個挑戰就是所謂的一個打砸自然跟數位產業的一個三個面向我想部長在專訪裡面也特別提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5942.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5946.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
數位經濟的部分部長有提到我們要力拼數位經濟產值兩面破一兆的目標要成立所謂的AI生態園區那請教部長目前有屬意的地點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5964.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5964.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
韓國務卿 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5980.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6004.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
因為這個所謂園區應該講說整個台灣都是數位島就AI島所以這個園區應該是上中下游下游是擴散到可能包括台灣全部地區跟海外所以一定要從上游中游下游上游的人就是我們比較像這個新創或是研發團隊能夠很快的接觸到中游下游所以交通方面是一個要點那至於這個實際的地點還有就是說到底是幾個園區這個都還沒定 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6006.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6035.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
部長本期還是要提醒一下就是因為我們賴總統在這次競選的期間一直提到所謂一個南北區域均衡發展的一個理念那尤其我們現在整個南部地區也在一直所謂發展科技產業尤其是我們屏東我們有科技產業園區也有南科的屏東園區未來是不是有考慮能夠到屏東來設置一下我們的AI生態園區達到一個區域均衡發展的一個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6036.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6062.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我想這個一定會略無考慮那這個等到這個這個我們在我再跟那個劉主委討論之後我們會啟動一些這個工作去做一些做一些查詢這很重要尤其我們很多這個冰凍 他們有這樣相關的一個專長但是他們就是必須到中部北部去工作他們很想回到冰凍故鄉一定會略無考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6065.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6091.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
那第二個就是在請教部長國安局日前表示我們境外的一個網路清騷的部分從今年初的選舉後每天100多萬次到目前提高到每天有250幾萬次尤其主要是針對我們的政府機構來清騷那也造成很大的危害甚至在媒體報導我們在評估友邦的一個機密文件的外洩最大的風險是在所謂的一個外管 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6092.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6112.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
針對這個部分我們說訴發部有沒有什麼樣的因應作為對就是我們現在就是我們治安這個畫面我們叫做治安署就是在治安法通過當然第一個就是目前來講治安署會做在我們的公部門做所謂的治安的集合跟治安的這個巡查跟治安的演練當然我們希望說不只以本身的治安要做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6113.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6124.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
那當然就是說將來我們還會在我們的所謂的關注關鍵基礎建設像是還有這個這些單位也會做同樣的工作至於基安的工作我是不是請那個資安署署長在座 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6128.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6151.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
報告委員我們會有分三大塊第一大塊是情資的交流只要任何地方有類似的攻擊我們就會立刻掌握因為我們有一些很多國家跟很多地方都有跟我們簽MOU所以立刻掌握之後我們就會主動防禦好這第一塊第二塊我們有應變處理所以我們的那個任何的事件我們會集合大家力量立刻做應變然後阻斷他的攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6152.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6175.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
第三塊我們會有後續的那個監控就是持續的監控萬一要是有任何異常的流量我們也會做那個主動的預警跟防禦那當然剛剛部長有講了除了這些之外我們還會平時就會做集合跟演練來讓大家的那個防禦的能量再提高對這個一定要強化的這個也是一個國安的一個危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6176.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6202.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
另外部長我想我還是要再提醒一下我們的資通安全管理法已經上路5年但是我們相對應我們的人力的部分的缺口一直沒有補齊你沒有人你要怎麼做這麼多的事這是一個很大的危機尤其目前我們看到的我們現在目前的編制的人力從中央政府到地方機關總共編制資訊的處理的一個仔細的部分只有編列3600多人遠遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6206.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6208.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6234.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6251.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
這部分是不是有調整的空間?要不然你們怎麼面對這個真財的一個困境?那個保護委員當然就是說這個我們一般但第一個人才我們會從內部很多實時訓練啦我記得有個目標希望兩年之內我們在內部能夠訓練一千個人為我們公部門所用 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6251.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6251.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
韓國瑜 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6267.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6287.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6287.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6302.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
這個還是要請部長我們要加油啦這個讓更多的人人才能那最後一個我想針對這個詐騙部分剛剛我們有聽到我們這個召委也有特別提醒部長部長這些新行樓新地購這有時候我們的發言甚至一些文書的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6304.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6331.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
這個真的要特別要小心尤其這個我記得部長來拜訪的時候有特別提到針對這個網路平台業者的部分應該是蘿蔔跟棍子一定要啟發那針對這部分我想我們目前掌握到的資料從去年7月到今年5月我們通報的一個平台有移除11萬多但是還是層出不窮尤其這些名人詐騙的案子後續的部分有沒有什麼更積極的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6333.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6347.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
對,剛剛就是,剛剛那個我也講過就是說,這個當然一個我們要讓這個一般民眾有這個市詐能力能夠提升啦,這個不要輕易相信網路平台業者的廣告。那當然跟網路平台業者我剛剛講過就是說,我們還希望能夠跟他們多溝通。 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6348.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6376.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
希望能夠多配合當然在打詐法通過專法通過之前用這種方式跟我們多交通然後當然剛剛講如果打詐查詢跟這個通報網也是用這樣的機制能夠很快速的通報這些業者能夠把一些這個所謂的不實廣告下架當然就是多管齊一下啦但是我剛剛就講說真的這個在我們這個通過之前我會盡量跟這些業者溝通啦就是希望他們能夠配合政府的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6376.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6392.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6392.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6418.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
部長我想另外還有一個特別要請部長這邊注意的就是針對老人家這個詐騙案件因爲依據本市的瞭解齁,我們現在整個這個市段齁,氣用騙你齁,但是礙於面子,不敢講啦。齁,這辛苦一輩子打拼的這個錢齁,用騙得了你齁。我想我們現在比較大的困境在於說我們的一個資訊的一個傳播的速度有很明顯的城鄉差距。 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6419.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6445.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我們整個地方的信息都不知道尤其老人家他在滑手機他並不曉得那麼掌握的那麼多的一個訊息那針對這部分我們數位部在各地都有一個數位的一個機位中心甚至我們每個鄉域現在都有所謂的關懷據點未來是不是有辦法針對這個老人家的一個詐騙的預防甚至彌平這個數位差距的這一環能夠來強化一個詐騙的一個作為跟宣達 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6447.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6463.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
有一個方式我要進行的就是我們會把一些詐騙的一些資訊拍成比如說短影音或拍成一些教材然後就可以經過這樣的一個社群平台去做播放讓老人可以看得到這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6463.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6463.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
現在請陳素悅委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6494.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6517.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們先做宣告等一下何清純委員跟蔡其昌委員發言完畢之後我們會休息那請各黨團助理告知接下來的委員蔡其昌委員發言完畢之後休息10分鐘謝謝主席請主席邀請黃部長請黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6527.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6535.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
部長早我想就是今天針對這個數位發布的業務報告那我想大家還是很關心的這個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6536.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6554.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
主帳的部分跟數位相關的部分我們看到相關的資料這個詐騙真的是層出不窮真的是充斥在人民的生活當中我們看到統計的數字從105年到112年有關詐欺發生的件數跟財損的統計可以說是逐年的增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6564.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6582.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
去年112年這個財損已經高達這個88億7895萬多那這樣子的一個創新高真的是在基層真的是民怨很高那本席先請教部長就您平常曾經接到這個詐騙的訊息嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6585.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6610.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
算是長啦但是大概騙不了我因為你有辦法試詐所以對我完全沒有用因為我們在基層真的接觸到民眾的一個心聲就是真的這個詐騙的訊息非常的多那詐騙上當的案例在每個人可能周邊可能就有很多的親戚朋友都有這個受騙上當的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6612.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6620.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
案發生,我們看到這詐騙的訊息的來源主要當然就是有簡訊還有包括這個信件信函電話電話包括就是室內電話行動電話都有還有就是這個網路網站的這個訊息所以這樣子的非常多的一個來源然後層出不窮真的對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6634.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6636.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
議員．綜藝新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6655.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6676.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
能夠讓這個主詐成果拼立竿見影那就是說就這個打詐通報查詢網目前我也不曉得說你們這個功能到底能夠到什麼樣的一個程度那未來就是說就您所說明的如果說針對這個可疑的簡訊網址就是可以透過通報查詢網來確認是否為詐騙訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6680.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6706.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那像目前就光是網路上臉書那每天我在看手機的時候幾乎就是有很多的這個詐騙的一個訊息我來看一下第一則就是像最常被冒用的就是我們的謝金河這個是我早上才看到的那之前真的很多很多不同的一個類型那他本人也曾經提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6707.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6730.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
也曾經就是去報案處理可是還是層出不窮然後第二個就是這個曹新成也是被冒用的這是在這個限動這個限動的這個部分就有可以看得到還有包括我們的這個經濟部長還沒有上任之前就被冒用了就用用他的名義來這個有這個臉書來 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6733.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6742.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
就是詐騙所以這樣子臉書的一個訊息真的是非常的多層出不窮那未來就這個部分你說像這個打詐通報查詢網的話就這個部分你會怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6748.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6764.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
就是像這種東西我們當然我們自己本身會用AI技術會去scan剛講就是剛講說比如說臉書我們希望很快就發現有這樣的這樣一個所謂的疑似假訊息那我們就會處理以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6764.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6784.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
當然就是說這是疑似還沒有人受騙就疑似然後就馬上處理就是我們就會連到比如說臉書跟臉書通知說你這個東西有問題當然我們會希望臉書能夠配合就是我們已經很快速的通知他他能夠馬上下架然後當然這個東西如果將來打詐裝法通過的時候他們必須配合不然我們就要滑拉錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6785.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6806.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6806.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6822.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6822.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6843.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
那謝謝委員那我們有說明的機會那部長就任之後呢大概也積極告訴我們說要做打爆打炸的通報查詢網所以像剛剛提到的郭部長的部分呢大概我們透過行政指導也跟臉書協作大概那兩個都拿下來那我們林次郎呢因為他it背景所以叫我們要這個現在已經在試行就名人的部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6844.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6859.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那我們有一個專責的專案小組就是來那如果他自己來檢舉那我們次長都親自回信跟他說我們收到了那現在進度到哪邊那我們這個網查詢到第一個收件多久然後meta處理多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6860.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6860.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
謝謝,謝謝署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6886.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6909.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我剛剛就是有聽到我們部長跟處長剛剛的回覆就是說如果說針對這樣子的一個網路的一個投資詐騙那剛剛部長說你們scan之後如果說是疑似這個詐騙的一個網頁那你們會通報LINE的話那就是由直接由你們訴發部去通報了不用再由透過警政署我們希望連線跟他們直接連就直接通報對 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6910.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6922.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
是確實可以做到這樣子嗎?我們會要求他們要接受我們的通報我們也是希望是可以這樣子另外就是說事實上在部長你提出的這個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6923.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6928.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6948.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6962.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
會合作,而且我們有說這個查證是多方驗證,不是單一技術,所以我們也會利用這些民間的查詢一起交叉比對、認證我也是希望如此,因為我們也希望資源不要浪費 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6964.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6990.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
另外一個部分就是說我聽到我有看到部長接受訪問的時候你有提到說查詢網會根據內容進行分流健康醫療的方面的詐騙訊息給衛福部農業相關的給農業部去就是交給主管機關去判斷增尾可是我覺得說這樣子的一個流程好像就是會會去delay到這個訊息假訊息的一個處理的一個效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6990.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7012.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
包括委員因為這個有些專業不是我們能夠直接從文字上做判斷比如健康的消息到這個叫事證之下這個藥到底有效沒效這東西還是要回去那個相關部那就我所知我剛剛有提到這個事實查核中心他們好像就是直接可以去判別真偽然後給我們回覆就是說在這個效率上是非常的快又及時 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7013.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7033.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
對但是有關專業剛講像這個藥這個醫藥醫學上面東西我覺得還是要謹慎小心這樣所以我們還是會請部會處理盡速處理就是說其實他們也可以很快的處理但是處理結果會再跟我們講我們就會在網路上PO出來這樣但是我覺得專業還是回歸到專業的主管單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7034.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7035.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
謝謝陳書岳委員發言完畢現在請何欣淳委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7065.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7069.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
好謝謝主席李坤哲召委我們請黃部長請黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7072.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7094.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我另外一位次長不在黃部長好在我進入我的質詢之前我想再請教一件事因為今天有媒體報導這個我們台灣的低軌衛星的一個進度因為在唐鳳部長的時代在花蓮地震的時候我們首次在啟用了低軌衛星那我根據媒體的報導跟唐鳳部長之前跟我講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7096.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7099.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
不僅也是低軌衛星還有中低軌衛星並用用於花蓮的救災當時候的唐鳳部長說訊號優於預期所以我不知道你們預期中的是怎麼樣又是怎樣的判斷優於預期我們合作的是英國的OneWeb而不是馬斯克的星鏈當然這個有一些考量我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7123.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7134.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那尤其這個馬斯克的這個很多的事業重心是在中國那甚至可能因為他是比較親中的態度所以對我們來講是有一點疑慮所以我們沒有選擇星鏈而是one way那我就想請教黃部長那未來台灣在這個地軌衛星的這樣子的一個發展裡面部長你的態度如何?你的預期如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7147.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7162.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
本來這個韌性就需要各式各樣的通信管道衛星是一個非常重要的管道那當然這個OneWeb是目前跟我們合作比較密切的當然是網軌當然我們還有中軌當然還有同步衛星我們都會一起用所以這會是一個整合那個細節是不是請牛司長細節是不是在書面報告給我好不好但是我只是想問部長一下當時的唐峰部長是說低軌衛星我們跟OneWeb合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7175.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7189.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
你剛剛說是多方的合作、多元的合作但是OneWeb現在起碼是我們選擇的重點合作的對象那唐峰部長說到今年下半年度這個OneWeb提供的服務應該到年底會有770個點那這個預期、這個進度如期如實嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7196.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7216.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我目前所收到訊息並沒有說會有問題所以我們還是朝這個目標在努力就是朝這個目標在努力是不是我希望是書面報告給我因為這個關係到未來台灣不管是在戰略上或者是在一個廣泛的服務上甚至他在緊急救災的時候那這個衛星的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7218.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7232.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
確保這個網路訊號能夠正常能夠讓我們所有的訊息都能夠接收得到這個很重要而且接收到的訊息要安全要正常而且要精準對不對然後訊號不能斷嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7235.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7253.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
是不是所以我希望你給我一個詳細的書面報告好不好而且我希望的這個帝國衛星的一個one web的合作這個服務到年底的770個點不會跳票而且甚至要希望能夠增加這樣子才能夠廣泛而且全方位的一個服務那接著呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7254.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7274.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
部長來訪問外訪我的時候有在講到說現在從上到下從行政院到我們幾個都在講打詐那剛剛林俊憲委員有提到這一個我們現在詐騙案量是持續的增加投資詐騙又是增幅最大數字我就不要再講了但是我要講的問題是什麼來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7277.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7294.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我們只有阻絕社團的投資詐騙廣告真的只有通報下架還不夠因為刑事局公布了第一季的網路平台違法的投資廣告臉書拘手我們努力的去反映努力的去要求下架也達到3.2萬則 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7296.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7319.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
但是只有這樣子還不夠因為呢這樣子的投資詐騙廣告層出不窮剛剛陳書悅委員有提到嘛對不對那我就想我們去年3月6月30號通過了一個投顧法70之一條就是希望能夠採實名制的一個這個投資理財廣告採實名制但是光是這一個投顧法修法之後到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7320.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7346.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那就沒啥有好啦因為啥呢這個投顧法的第71條的實名制只是要加強投放方的自我資訊的揭露而已啊並沒有強制性的要求平台一定要怎樣怎樣怎樣啦所以部長你剛剛好像也回其他委員說你要邀請這些平台業者來喝咖啡啦或者是邀請他們來商量啊因為呢還無法可管的情況之下但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7346.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7363.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
部長只有喝咖啡夠嗎?你剛剛講威脅兩個字我是覺得用字不太妥但是呢嚴格的督促甚至用其他的一個政策工具是不是可以來拜託是不是可以來督促我們平台業者可以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7364.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7391.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
更進一步的在源頭管理開始來採更積極的落實實名制。部長你覺得咧?那個沒有錯我剛剛講說一個是要用法去管那法沒有通過以前就是用各式各樣管道跟他們溝通那剛剛有講就是說我們第一個就是還是希望說有這個打造通報這個查詢網能夠把這個通報時間縮短讓下架時間快一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7392.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7416.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
但是我還是很強調一點就是說其實詐騙的方法管道太多所以試詐能力的提升是很重要那我也特別講就是說為什麼要有這樣的一個服務的這樣一個就是說讓民眾看到這樣的訊息比如說將來看到臉書上看到某些名人廣告那就可以馬上到這個查詢網來看這個是不是真的在決定你這個查詢的這個平台要建立要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7417.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7432.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
三個月之內會上架三個月之內可以更快一點好嗎可以更快一點好嗎因為你們的專業技術還要到三個月以後那至於說那個那我就跟你講還有其他的政策工具還有其他我們已經立法的一個工具啊修法的工具啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7433.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7449.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
在唐豐部長時代我們修的這個電子簽章法嘛因為你們一直在講說我們要推平台上架的投資廣告要驗證驗什麼驗數位簽章嘛對不對那現在我們社群平台如何驗證現在你們驗證我的意思是說電子簽章法三讀通過到現在你們的驗證第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7456.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7478.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
對所以是要強迫業者對強迫業者要能夠你們強迫業者但是你們用什麼工具去強迫業者啊對那個打詐法打詐法的第3、4條有這樣的一個但他專法3、4條有這樣的一個要求所以專法還沒通過之前你們也沒有辦法強制業者啊就是說現在投資廣告詐騙正在進行是但是你們還是沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7479.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7489.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
第二個第二個我們現在這些平台業者協調嫁接的進度如何嫁接我們電子簽章法的這個所謂的驗證數位驗證 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7492.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7512.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
平台接受嗎?技術面跟委員報告就是說其實我們部長對這個非常重視因為他列為我們第一個要務那上個禮拜五我們林正路次長已經找了Google Meta9來開會電子簽章法因為他本來就是做數位簽章或電子簽章這樣的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7513.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7517.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那我們在打詐專法的第30條目前行政院送到立法院的版本裡頭就是要用數位簽章或是所謂快速身份識別機制或是就叫FIDO那因為業者上禮拜五來說這兩個他有時候要改系統要到母公司去所以其實我們打詐專法裡頭有或其他安全性相當的技術或方式來驗證來跟你們開會的這個業者說如果要改系統要回到母公司這有時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7543.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7544.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
行政指導的你們所謂的其他方法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7576.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7594.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
委員你好。的確上個禮拜我們在跟那個Google、Line還有Facebook他們在談論這件事情的時候他們就一直跟我們講說因為他們是國外的公司所以他們都要依照他們母國的法律然後另外他們改系統有的說要18個月有的說多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7594.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7618.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那我就跟他們講說第一個你在雖然是你母國可能是美國可能是日本但是你到台灣來你就得遵守台灣法律就像我們台灣的各種網路公司到國外去進行營業的時候我們到美國到日本也必須遵守當地的法律那另外一件事情是像是Facebook他們雖然說他們改系統要18個月但是我也提醒他們說他們之前就是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7619.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7619.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
他有答應嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7639.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7658.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
他們說他們會盡量配合那我們會持續的跟他溝通除了法律面以外我們也希望就是說利用因為台灣現在民意對於這個詐騙尤其這幾個廣告平台上面的詐騙已經非常非常不滿了那我們希望也利用輿論的壓力給他們更大的就是在商業上給他們更大的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7659.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7662.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
何欣淳委員發言完畢現在請蔡其昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7690.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7711.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
謝謝主席請黃部長請黃部長蔡委員好部長早部長我想齁這個你剛到立法院分析對數法部只有一個重中之重 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7713.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7735.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
台灣民眾認為台灣的新三害就是詐騙、認知作戰跟網路犯罪。部長你有沒有被網路詐騙或者是被簡訊詐騙過?收過很多但是沒有被騙過。所以你蠻聰明的,從來沒有上當過。沒有。好。部長那你有沒有被網路犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7738.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7740.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
蘇發部長這個位置很難坐得住部長你有沒有這樣的認知? |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7759.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7761.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
上一個部長叫唐鳳唐鳳我想他也是科技界的奇才但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7785.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7814.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
臺灣部長他做了一些事情但不管怎麼樣民眾是不滿意的所以今天你來當這個訴發部的部長我第一個必須要先提醒你這個是一個善意的提醒如果這個部長沒有辦法把這三件事情做好當然這個特別是詐騙跟網路犯罪認知作戰因為涉及到整個國家整體的體系但至少在詐騙上面那個是所有的臺灣人民每一天必須要遭受的侵犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7815.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7836.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
每一天啊你打開你說到今天剛剛我聽上一個委員在問你啊何委員在問你的時候特別去提到這個這個所謂平台業者這個到今天啊那名人那個詐騙啊我我我隨便打開手機我都可以部長我都可以還都可以看得到啊煩不勝煩啊防不勝煩而且煩不勝煩部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7839.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7867.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
除了道德勸說就是說電子簽章法過了現在行政院打詐的專法也送到立法院來了但是啊到通過三讀開始落實實施相關的規定辦法都出來時間我不知道要多久但是至少人民每天的生活他都要繼續那在這段期間除了剛剛你所回答的道德勸說之外還有沒有其他的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7868.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7883.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
那個報告委員就是我剛剛講就是說我們希望加速發現剛剛講這些假廣告或假訊息能夠要求就是這些平台商快速因為以前通報他們跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7884.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7884.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
這是三個月後的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7902.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7922.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
對三個優勢但是就是說這個是可以幫助那在這個之前我跟委員講就是說我現在還是一樣就是說當然就是我們會定期跟這些平台商再繼續溝通我知道你要溝通也喝咖啡啦除了說咖啡之外除了送上咖啡可不可以送上毒藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7928.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7943.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
民眾很受不了。作為民意代表,我必須要把民眾的憤怒真的轉達給部長知道。所以這部份的工作我們請次長﹖來次長有沒有什麼更厲害的方法? |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7943.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7966.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
老師送上好喝的咖啡業者也是喝一喝就走了嘛可不可以送上一點難喝的或者甚至有毒的是委員說的沒錯那我們現在的策略一方面就是說我們是多管齊下一方面我們是很期待打造專法的通過然後以後這種投資廣告都有實名制但是那個時間實在太久了所以我們希望在 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7967.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7989.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
設法努力要看能不能在三個月之內有這個打架查詢通報網看能不能讓他上線那這個的目的就是說當有人通報的時候其他的民眾我覺得網路上現在民眾都生活在網路上嘛他就很簡單的去到把一個可疑的網址貼上去然後看說是不是已經有人通報了然後我們政府是不是已經有在處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7990.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8004.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
處理的狀況我們給大家知道這是第二第二件事情那剛剛委員有提到事實上三個月還是對民眾來感覺來講好像還太長了所以我們現在其實已經啟動另外一個更短期的那個機制就是建立一個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8005.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8025.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
公眾人物的當他的身份被仿冒的時候他有一個通報的管道那我們現在已經陸續在跟這些名人的就是有一些通報的管道那也希望事實上各位委員如果有這方面的困擾的話我們也很希望把這個服務提供給您那以後您如果說發現您的 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8026.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8027.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我建議你們好好花一點時間去研究政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8054.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8077.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
民不與官鬥啦為什麼因為官有很多種方法官有很多的手段我不相信速發部只有好喝的咖啡啦所以我還是堅信你們還是可以再找出方法我不相信這些平台業者一而再再而三的放縱讓這些詐騙不斷的層出不窮在他的平台上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8078.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8078.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
第二個齁第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8089.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8112.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
這個資安我看現在把那個經濟部把這個所謂的資安院把這個對資安院移到速發部然後我們今年我看你們的這個新聞稿上面去提到說我們這個資安院承接臺灣電腦網路危機處理暨協調中心我看到了這個新聞可是我對一個數字我覺得很疑惑這個數字就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8115.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8131.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這個成立這個平台很重要的是要這個民間跟政府啊所謂的這個一起協力嘛對不對那這個參加廠商企業的人數只有1500人這是這個是怎麼一回事台灣有百萬中小企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8135.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8159.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
委員好,跟委員報告一下因為目前對民間的企業的通報沒有法律的強制的要求所以這邊是自願性的然後自願性接手以後我們就開始怎麼樣提供各種誘因他願意來通報比如講說你參加我們的會議以後我們的情誌可以分享那發生資安事件以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8160.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8188.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我們可以來協助所以透過各種管道來增加民眾的企業來賓來成為會員那第二我們現在開始跟很多民間的企業的供應鏈包括像我們的高科技的產業包括像我們無電面工會我們跟他來做聯防那希望透過這樣的管道把會員數目增加讓我們的資安的情報能夠在第一時間往企業來處理第三個我們要協助中小企業中小企業是很大的一個挑戰也希望中小企業會變成 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8190.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8213.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
將來資安院可以服務的地方以上補充謝謝好部長這個時間的有限這個下一次我會再好好討論那我先提醒你一個資安院接接了一個中心這個中心接到今年的三個月只收到20到30幾件通報會員數只有1500多個這種單位只有兩種狀況一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8220.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8248.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
好好管理讓這個數字快速明顯的增加第二個就把它廢掉就浪費人民的公帑嘛成立這個成立一個協調中心通報二三十件三個月駭客都活不下去了啦一個駭客隨便一駭二二三十家通報二三十家這兩這這個當駭客齁這個產業當駭客這個產業如果只有二三十家這駭客活不會下去啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8249.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8270.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
你現在懂我的意思嗎?所以這個表示成效真的要檢討台灣中小企業有數百件資安的問題對他們來講很困擾啊大部分資料一被駭客駭了之後只好乖乖的看要買以太幣還是買買買其他的這個數位貨幣就直接就快點資料拿回來快點啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8271.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8299.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
那為什麼法令不會強制嘛?為什麼?這是因為你要設計誘因嘛各位試想這麼多無助的中小企業他們不會有資安部門啦今天說40個人、40個人、40個人他要怎麼有資安部門所以他對資安到底要怎麼面對他其實就是現在就是看運氣嘛希望駭客不要找上他或者他沒有價值讓駭客來駭他 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8300.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8328.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
所以呢重點在於說我們一定有誘因讓這些無助的中小企業他覺得我來參加這個很好建戶可以幫我協助什麼我來參加這個我可以怎麼樣我通報之後可以怎麼得到什麼對待這個才是今天成立這個協調中心重要的目的因為有台灣的型態大企業他不需要你他認為他比你書發部還厲害對不對他認為他們自己就可以解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8329.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8340.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那透過工協會我們有太多的中小企業的工協會工協會隨便一個工協會只要參加一半的會員你早就幾十萬了不會是1500個會員 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8344.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8370.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
所以本席提這個主要是告訴你說這個是替中小企業出出聲音我們要用用腦筋想想看什麼樣的方式可以讓中小企業覺得參加這個聯訪是對他們是有用的參加這個聯訪對他們的保護是有幫助的參加這個聯訪他們可以在這個無助的汪洋當中網路犯罪的汪洋當中找到一根伏木 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8371.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8371.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8396.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8397.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8450.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8450.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
議員委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8471.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8477.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
議員：一、邀請數位發展部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計11案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8496.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8504.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計11案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9233.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9255.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
好,現在繼續開會請許智傑委員發言我還是善意的提醒部長不要再有威脅或者是難喝的咖啡這樣的字眼好謝謝主席我們請部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9274.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9287.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
那一天部長到我辦公室事實上我一直在想這個詐騙集團要怎麼樣去防堵那當然詐騙集團本來不見得是蘇衛部的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9288.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9316.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
但是呢用很多新的科技可能就是數位部可能這部分會比其他單位都還要強一點所以是不是數位部可以用你的專業然後來幫助可能警政署或者是電信公司或者是NCC做一個平行的溝通那怎麼樣去創造一個防止詐騙集團可以讓數位部有所發揮的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9317.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9344.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
好那這個部分不知道部長有想到方法了沒有對這個跟委員報告我只有提過就是我們有個打詐通報查詢網就在最源頭就讓民眾或是我們自己去網路去scan去掃描發現可疑的那個訊息我們就會很快速的跟其他部會做溝通會把訊息pass給他們做即時的處理所以就是說你要怎麼去發現這個可能是詐騙的電話或者是可能是詐騙的網路 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9345.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9367.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
民眾當然是民眾主動把他看到的東西PO在我們的那個查詢網號我們會去查這個包括電話的來源網址或是銀行的帳號等等等等還有訊息的內容另外一個當然就是我們也會去網路上去爬可能看到的一些尤其像比如說剛剛講臉書這種就是平常看到很多的詐騙的訊息的地方這樣這個針對民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9370.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9386.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
檢舉或者是去爬臉書這個當然都是很重要的工作不過這個其實有一點是事備公辦所以我上一次有跟部長提到就是說其實你去看一般的商業模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9387.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9408.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
比如說他B2B、B2C、C2B、C2C等等的這些商業模式現在詐騙集團要去詐騙也有他詐騙集團的商業模式所以其實我跟部長提過的就是說這個部分比如說現在中華電信跟三大電信我們來看那個防詐的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9409.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9426.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我記得那個數位部好像有提到說你們自己也會發展一個防炸的APP這個部長當時還沒到不知道裡面有沒有人了解說數位部是不是有在規劃這一個部分防炸電話的APP |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9428.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9452.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
電話是主要還是在那個電信公司嗎?那我們知道就像比如說中華電信他也有一個防詐的一個服務他已經擋掉百分之九十幾現在那個Who's Call啦對 Who's Call也是那個是民間公司嘛事實上他是免費的嘛Who's Call有跟我們談過好幾次然後那個台灣大哥帶有一個反詐戰警對他也是免費的嘛對 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9454.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9475.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那其他的中華電信跟遠傳的好像是都要收費中華電信要收費應該然後我們自己的我記得當時數位部有跟我提過說你們自己也想要努力就類似一個這樣子一個防詐的戰警就是去攔截因為現在就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9477.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9505.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
被電話詐騙的大部分都是比較老人還是比較弱勢啦那當然其實很多人真的是都受過詐騙的電話我覺得你如果先把網路的其實無遠弗屆而且網路廣告有時候你沒有100%你靠去爬書的也不容易通通讓你發現啦但是我覺得這個電話如果防詐電話可以處理的話從源頭來管理不要只是末端的管理也許這是一個好的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9506.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9527.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
對,同意不施請那個呂署長在這方面再做補充謝謝委員讓我們有補充說明的機會那委員剛剛提到之前大概就有這樣的討論不過因為像富士康他就自己不太好嘛所以我們就跟他協作這種有這個需求就請富士康再把它多強化他的模組另外剛剛委員提到台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9528.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9536.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
台灣有一個防炸戰警他有來簽我們的AI領航計劃這就是研發的部分透過數據的分析把AI你現在卡進來有時候那個量突然增多他怎麼做我們沒關係我們現在說我們數位部有發生要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9547.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9571.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
現在因為這種民間的創意比我們多所以我們是用協作的方式我們現在是用打造查詢網這個我們就自己做那時候大概有這樣的討論大概回到民間的創意然後去做研發補助這樣沒關係啦我的意思就是說你要去想前端跟後端嘛那你後端就是說像APP這些都是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9573.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9600.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我要自己那個download下來自己安裝上去我才會有這個功能嘛那這個功能當然就是說不同的電信公司或者是民間公司他們都會去規劃設計嘛那我們處理末端的這個部分就是說我們也希望說數位部可以幫忙啦這不是你的工作啦但是數位部為什麼人家一直去質疑說數位部的工作成效不髒 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9601.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9631.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
就是因為你做的事情沒有去凸顯出來嘛那你今天如果是因為你的數位專業可以去幫忙的話也許你幫了以後人家會發現數位部真的做這事情真的大家惹怒了所以這個才能夠凸顯就是說現在詐騙電話這麼多啦我們現在就是說我們先把詐騙電話先堵掉至少堵掉大部分啦你沒有辦法100%至少堵掉大部分所以就是就這個防詐的APP是不是數位部可以做一個統整 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9632.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9633.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9651.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9671.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
所以可以數位部可以去統整整合做出一個這樣子一個末端的系統的防堵的系統就對了好不好系統可以交互交叉比對就是在末端這邊數位部努力一下啦就了解各個不同的單位嘛能夠做一個末端的防堵防炸的工作好 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9671.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9691.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
那這個部分OK要做前段的也要做前段的就是說其實我一直去研究就是商業模式跟詐騙模式其實他可能就是如果是都是B2C的話事實上現在的電話電信公司都是B2C嘛我們把電信公司當作一個單位嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9692.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9719.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那詐騙集團他也是一個企業單位嘛他這個企業單位去針對每一個個人他就是這樣一直打嘛那如果你如果可以在電信公司或者是我們整體設一個Hub那這個Hub就是說你今天是B2B在吐息嘛那你這個B呢就可以說所有的電話來比如說我從海外電話一天打台灣10通以上的這個海外電話可能就有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9720.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9732.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那我如果用室內電話一天打超過30通比如說民意代表服務處啦或者是企業單位他們業務單位這個就很正常那這個會登錄說這是正常的電話號碼嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9734.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9755.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
如果你如果一般的沒有登錄過的電話號碼除了有這樣子一個現象發生可能就有可能是詐騙電話嘛那你們如果說有一個程式你們來協助然後協助這三大電信公司跟NCC來處理這樣子一個program那有可能你就可以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9756.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9756.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
韓國瑜 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9773.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9773.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
數位部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9788.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9806.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
可以去幫忙做這個部分的整合用你們的專業看怎麼樣去處理因為這個電信公司他要主動想到可能也他也沒想到啦NCC我們剛剛要求的現在是末端前端NCC可能也不見得有這個能力啦那前端這個部分是不是數位部正好是你們的專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9807.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9827.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我們可以跟他講就是整合我們現在在進行這些打爆通訊網去整合這樣的一個能力能夠把它那個我以後會再問啦希望說這個部分我都能夠看到數位部有進度那真的是把我們電話詐騙如果能減少到90%以上95%以上這真的是功德無量 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9828.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9829.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
許委員發言完畢,現在請邱若驊委員發言黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9855.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9879.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
委員好部長好首先先恭喜黃部長上任期待部長可以重建數發部成立的價值因為數發部成立不到成立還不到兩年但已經讓很多國人從期待變到失望從過去的期望演變成失望那前面很多委員都提到詐騙已經是高民怨了那部長的報告中也提到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9880.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9905.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
要打詐先從打詐給民眾一個安心無論是行政院還是黃部長都有推新的措施都是希望可以改善過去的打詐成果那第一支箭推動打詐工作將設置打詐通報查詢網請問部長何時可以檢視這個成效現在預定是三個月三個月是建制那我想請問就是成效對這個次長是不是可以回來未計成效我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9909.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9933.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
報告委員我們這個要成立這個打詐通報查詢網那個因為這個的目標算是蠻大的我們會分階段實行那我們剛開始我們會集中在幾個部分第一個部分就是一些公眾人物他的身份被假冒然後有一些詐騙的廣告這是第一部分那第二個部分呢是很多那種假冒政府單位的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9933.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9959.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
公眾人物的假冒是指廣告嗎?商業廣告?對,就是那個投資詐騙廣告就像那個謝金河先生他常常就是就是短期那中期跟長期的計畫呢?我們剛開始短期的話我們先會用人工來處理等我們熟悉這個處理的流程之後呢那我們就會漸漸轉為用科技的手段用科技來對付科技詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9960.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9969.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
用AI來對付AI的那個詐騙這是我們中長期的計畫那我剛才有聽到部長有說跟Who's Call也有做過去也有做 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9971.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9993.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
對那個報告委員對我們跟因為這個現在民間技術也蠻多也蠻進步的所以我們也將來我是希望這是一個整合啦就是說我們會剛剛講電信公司有些有些這個這個防詐和堵詐的方法然後還有一些金融單位也有一些方法我們都會試著把它整合進來這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9994.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10023.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
我相信很多民眾都有下載包括我在內海小路包括在座的很多就是在座各位都也有下載Who's Call嗎那為什麼民間可以做到我們政府還有速發部做不到呢因為這個速發部的感覺起來像是被動式的Who's Call是主動只要我們接到電話就可以看到是誰來電那為什麼我們不能報告委員Who's Call主要是電話但是我們現在很多詐騙的訊息來自比如說Line或是來自Facebook那沒有跨部會的合作嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10027.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10039.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
我們希望有個東西就是不管你是哪個管道進來訊息能夠把它PO在我們這樣一個服務網然後就可以協助來判斷這樣訊息是不是可能詐騙這樣所以會大於只是電話的偵測 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10042.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10045.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
那剛才提到的強化模組是什麼意思?強化模組跟委員報告齁就是因為詐騙這個有不同的樣態嘛按夫斯科因為過去我們在這樣的業務討論上面他也會持續去做研發所以呢诶詐騙有時候新的模態譬如說剛剛前面幾位委員有一位舉的就是這個謝金河先生嘛他以前都是名子 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10070.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10093.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
那他就會轉成說就不是名詞了可能是謝社長但是他的圖像那這個都是要透過科技的方式讓這個我們在後台處理的時候抓得到說這個其實也是假冒因為一般人因為這是名人嘛看起來就知道這個是就自己會映射成一些就知道是謝社長的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10094.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10112.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那這些都是模組上他在AI訓練model的時候都會用到那我們其實跟剛剛講跟FoodCore他就持續去做研發那另外呢像幾個電信業者因為他們也會做這樣的研發然後大家這種都是有點像機會酒料法大家都盡他的能力提倡謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10117.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10138.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
謝謝委員我們會努力因為過去一直大家都說都會在想為什麼不能從源頭落實啊很多民眾都不解那包括我們委員在內那在我們桃園我們市長張先生市長成立打造桃園對那儘管再怎麼努力啊成功的攔截很多重大照片案但是風氣還是沒有辦法克制就不知道有什麼資本的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10139.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10139.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
報告委員． |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10158.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10178.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
但是呢我覺得最後結果還是希望我們提升民眾視詐的能力就是說能夠能夠看了以後能夠知道說這是一個詐騙那這個方法可以從剛講這個達照通報查詢網去問以外另外就是說我們會推動像短短馬沒關係部長還是請署發部從源頭的這方面對對源頭我知道就源頭就是說源頭的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10179.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10180.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10200.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10224.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
部長與國發為合作設置AI生態園區要扶植AI新創還有投資還有吸引投資要打造我們台版的AI矽谷那希望也是在同樣3個月內提出計劃那我們桃園市政府也有正在爭取推動AI的應用還有引導新創產業的進駐那我們地方資源有限必須要中央的協助相信部長清楚桃園有很多重點的科技產業那部長這方面可以提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10225.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10246.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
協助我想我們可以跟桃園的有些密切合作沒問題就是說希望可以把桃園納入計劃的重點區那這個要可以再提供我們再再來我們會去再去可能去拜訪桃園市的一些關於這個計劃的細節看怎麼跟中央配合或中央怎麼協助來讓桃園將能夠發展能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10247.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10248.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
議員發言完畢現在請黃建豪委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10278.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10281.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
好謝謝主席那我們請速發部黃部長請黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10290.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10317.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
部長好部長首先還是要肯定部長在上任之初提出的政策三支箭第一個就是打詐那當然它包含發展數位經濟產業跟數位韌性那我想這個發展數位經濟產業跟數位韌性這當然是這部裡面的一個主要業務但是我想民眾包含說民意代表這邊大家最關心的還是這個打詐的問題因為這個打詐問題其實真的非常嚴重光是這個地方的警察局地方派出所 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10318.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10330.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
在我選區裡面派出所剛好這兩天要來質詢我了解一下實務狀況派出所大概每天每天喔每個派出所大概可以收到5到6件詐騙的這個的這個通報或者報案 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10334.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10354.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
這是有案的有的可能被騙來不知道沒有來報案的光是每天就有5到6案這個這個這個這個案子所以去詐騙自己對台灣的這個民生經濟影響非常非常重大好那我想部長你剛上任啊也不能太太苛求但是我想剛你知道個數字有一個媒體可能晚一點會做出會公告有個民調講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10356.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10377.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
對於這個新政府會激起打擊詐騙請問您對政府打擊詐騙有沒有信心不太有信心跟很沒有信心的比例不太有信心的17%很沒有信心的31%所以沒有信心的部分合計起來大概48%我想問一下部長你對於這樣的數字有什麼樣的感想或對未來的施政有什麼樣的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10378.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10391.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
打詐是我們新政府的一個很重要的一個政策那已經這個新政府已經啟動這樣一個所謂打詐的這樣推動的一個辦公室的一個做法那我們定期都有在跟各部會因為這次打詐是跨部會的一個合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10392.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10413.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那我個人就覺得我個人是蠻有信心因為我們現在的確在很多作為上包括各個單位各個部位都有提出新的做法然後從資訊流、人流跟金流一起合作、下手然後阻斷這個詐騙的一個管道希望台灣能夠是一個安全的地方而減少詐騙部長謝謝你提到一個關鍵字,阻斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10416.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10431.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
這是最重要的其實我們提的很多修法都只能後續的懲處但是我們的確希望數法部還有NCC在內大家能夠從源頭來把這個東西阻斷所以回到這個政策本身部長提到的打詐部分三個月內要推出所謂的打詐通報查詢網 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10432.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10460.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我也是肯定這樣的做法但是我要問部長一件事情現在就已經有內政部警政署的165全民防騙網的這個這樣的功能那這個165全民防騙網跟你即將推出的打詐通報查詢網這之間有什麼關聯性或者是這兩個東西會不會又跌床架屋因為你要推出一個新的打詐通報查詢網你還要再過三個月那我們現在就有165全民防騙網當然是不同的部門但對民眾來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10461.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10484.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我只要有詐騙相關的訊息我希望有一個單一的管道不管是查詢也好通報也好或是我去各種新的詐騙資訊也好民眾的出發的觀點希望說我就一個網站或是一個窗口了解就好我不需要有這麼多網站所以我想問一下部長到底這個打詐通報查詢網跟這165全民方便網未來是要整合呢還是會有兩個網站的存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10486.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10511.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
報告委員那個你看這個就講很清楚是我已經覺得這個訊息是詐騙或是我已經被騙了我在這邊報案那跟我們這邊是說你收到的訊息你不確定的時候你可以先到我們這個網站來查這個是不是可能的詐騙而不是說我已經知道他是詐騙我要來檢舉我想這有個差異那也就是讓民眾收到訊息的時候他有個方式先來瞭解我現在收到訊息到底可不可以信 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10512.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10532.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
那這個是這個是我們這個這個而且我們這個查詢網會連結各個部位當然我們也會連結警政署的這個單位就是說我們已經看到這個訊息經過AI的偵測確定可能是一個詐騙訊息不需要民眾自動報案我們這邊就把我們看到的訊息通報你意思是說你們推動的打大通報查詢網是屬於進行中的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10534.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10548.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
165全民防騙網查到訊息以確定狀態是這意思嗎?就是說民眾已經決定已經知道民眾已經判斷知道是詐騙或者是他已經被騙他來這邊做我不能說你沒做事但是我還是要拜託一下其實對民眾對我來講對本席來說這個詐騙問題如果你能夠整合我覺得是對民眾來講這個是比較方便你不要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10557.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10582.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
講真的因為現在165全民防騙網已經推一段時間了大家有些想法跟資訊他一定是先上165去查詢不會去上打造通報查詢網來查詢現階段是這樣子當然我們希望一個網站裡面就能夠我們是一個入口啦portal啦會連接到各個單位的我當然希望你要做到是說不要有這麼多的版本就是就像部長剛剛提到的這個打造通報查詢網是進行中可能潛在的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10583.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10610.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
一六五是已經確定了但對我來講或對民眾或對任何一個資訊有落差的人來講他要相信政府他上網查他就是要得到一個可能存在答案嘛你不要說還分兩個我這個上一六五查不到我再上打造通報找找查查看我希望這個事情是能夠結合在一起的我們會整合部長可以嗎可以我們會整合好你們會跟內政部主管整合吧對會好那再來剛剛提到這個這個前面也有很多委員提到包含說名人詐騙的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10612.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10628.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
這件事情就這樣當初在推所謂的電子簽章法的時候當時的數位也是跟我們承諾說推動電子簽章法之後未來能夠減少這種名人冒名詐騙的問題那到底電子簽章法已經正式三讀通過之後到底能不能做到所謂防止名人詐騙的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10629.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10645.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
電子簽章法讓我們有個機制能夠做數位簽章來做就確認是KYC可是那個剛剛講像比如說網告平台商他要不要用數位簽章需要另一個法來要求他們一定要做這個事情那這個法就是我們現在在進行的打炸裝法 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10645.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10659.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
那這個如果通過的話他必須廣告必須要做實名制那實名制一個方法就是用電子簽方數位簽章來做認證這個是一個方法那這個罰你是罰這個廣告商還是罰平台業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10661.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10680.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
這個我們如果推動了新的法律你要罰的是誰對他如果沒有配合我們做這個剛講打詐的話平台上是要被罰對沒錯所以未來有機會因為我很期待說什麼時候你去罰包括Facebook也好Google也好這些跨國公司因為他們在台灣到目前為止這麼詐騙詐騙案例這麼氾濫 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10683.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10706.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
不管臉書也好Line也好Google也好他們是主要的這個詐騙的平台當然你要罰內容業者內容產生者是沒問題但是我要問的是說這些平台他到底有沒有義務去規範那他如果沒有達到我們法律要求他們有去規範那我們的政府什麼時候才會對Facebook也好或對Google或對YouTube或對Line也好開出第一張罰單目前有開過罰單嗎目前都沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10707.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10725.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
打詐裝法通過我們就可以他如果沒有配合做剛剛講這些事情配合下架或者處理或是他沒有做KYC沒有做這個實名制的認證的話我們就可以給他裁法對阿這個當然要還是要有法所以法的部分就是剛剛講的打詐裝法通過之後我們會做這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10726.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10739.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
打造專法通過之後,包含Facebook這個公司,他也會在你們的裁罰範圍裡面,不會只有平台業,不會只有所謂的代理商,廣告業者被罰,連這個平台本身都被罰嗎?對,對,對。好,部長,那最後一個問題,這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10742.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10761.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
你在捲包裡面提到所謂的這個第三方支付也是你們的管制的這個目標但是因為第三方支付跟電子支付不一樣電子支付有金管會的問金管會要認證才有電子支付第三方支付平台他是很多很多有幾千間幾百間這個平台業者是所有的你們都有能力能量去追查嗎還是要透過其他方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10762.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10787.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
我們已經在第三次已經實施比如說那個能量登錄能量登錄已經讓我們這1萬多家登記的第三次現在只有53家通過就是我們可以集中管理這53家那沒登錄怎麼辦我現在其實問題就是說因為登錄很少他沒有那個經過我們能量登錄的人他在銀行就沒辦法拿到所謂的帳號也就是說金管會金融單位根本就是說會排除這些金融單位要給 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10788.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10811.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
這個第三方支付業者的所謂的虛擬帳號必須是有能量登錄過的人那能量過的人他要做什麼事情他要確認他來登廣告或是他要申請這個虛擬帳號的人必須是實名制也就是他必須是真正的所以就是這個讓很多詐騙的人不敢再就沒有辦法再通過我們認證過的53家的這個第三方支付去要拿到所謂的虛擬帳號 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10812.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10825.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10826.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10850.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
第三方支付這個也要謝謝金管會他主導都虛擬帳號那現在他如果沒有在我這裡登錄非這53家的那他就不會給他虛擬帳號他就沒辦法付錢是不是那你說以前他沒做第三方支付那我們還是去查核如果他有願意要做那所以就不會像一萬多家沒辦法控制現在100天以來這官立場我們會來努力所以謝謝委員的指導謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10854.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10876.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
謝謝。黃建豪委員發言完畢。現在請鍾嘉斌委員發言。主席、在場委員先進。列席的政府教授、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生。有請黃部長。請黃部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10885.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10908.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
委員好部長好你有沒有發現今天大家都問打詐有沒有在你意料之中可以期盼對因為這是很重要的議題所以對沒錯那我想很多委員的前面的都講出來了我來自於司法法制委員會法務部一直希望能夠增加檢察官助理或檢察事務官就是說要人手其實我們知道上游們最好隨頭保持底下防堵最困難大家都同意嘛要源頭管理是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10910.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10933.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
來到源頭管理嘛源頭管理很重要但是對我講說大家一起努力這應該是都要一起都要做好那源頭管理大家都提到了網路廣告是一切詐欺的源頭三個月高達三萬件這些內容就是詐欺的源頭你同意嗎這些網路廣告很嚴重而且金額滿高的那目前我們要去管這個網路的廣告他的平台業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10934.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10942.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
以FB來講他可以去偵測你的廣告內容有沒有含政治啦購物啦球球金融內容如果你覺得以FB的能力他們做到可以去偵測詐欺 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10944.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10944.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
他們應該有能力有能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10975.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10995.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
我的了解是我們那個法案通過後我們是可以罰款你們是可以罰款目前的想法是罰款對好後面限制到速度或封網也可以評估好不好對好再往下看那另外呢行政院把他說一定規模他才去處理這個廣告平台業者啦那這個規模的計算他包括數位部或星際你們數位部有想法的嗎什麼叫一定規模以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10995.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11020.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
一定規模以上是不是已經成熟了?簡單講,因為時間有限。謝謝委員。你正在想嗎?對不對?因為這個有在討論。一定規模就是...你剛才講那個裡面Meta、Google這些都會在裡面。好,來,那個部長。但是如果未達你們的規模,不管你們的規模有多大,那詐欺廣告也會化整為零啊,專門找小規模的平台業者啊,找廣告平台。舉例來說,以我們的年紀,我們成長的時候, |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11021.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11039.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
以前的報紙加廣告也都很氾濫射情、詐騙後來要實名登記制結果這些廣告就往哪裡往樓梯間大樓的牆面就亂貼那這些怎麼管那時候的中央政府是新聞局管但是小零星的流竄的就地方政府環保局是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11040.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11067.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
所以如果大規模的廣告平台你們管那小規模的你們要有沒有分工分流有沒有想法小規模這個不好委員這個第一個當然是先管大規模當然先抓大但是小的也不能放小的話再來看如果他的那個到變成是一個問題的時候我們當然也要進去管好很好你們有積極齁好如果你不完全納管他就逃入了法外之地如果你們只管一定規模上的廣告平台小規模的未歸管就容易詐欺那這個時候如果要他實名制有沒有法源 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11068.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11087.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
小規模實名制,我想如果他的片還到來,那個一旦...還是要一旦一定規模嘛,對對跟委員報告齁,因為這個規模因為是授權執法,所以如果他這樣跑去的話,然後社會就覺得說這個要處理,我們機動可以處理啊,因為那是執法嘛,對對對,就是執法上面然後做那些...往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11093.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11119.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
來過去我跟郭委員曾經對於第三方智庫輪迴詐團的幫手召開記者會那當時要求要比照虛擬通貨提出法尊聲明而且要兩個月內完成登記好現在來了過去在他的營燈事項頁目當中有列三支的有12000家實際經營的大概上百家目前通過審核的有82家登錄只通過53家是不是這樣子對那未來我們是不是要繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11122.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11146.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
會嘛齁?只要他做三支你們要審查嗎?這個再請署長拍照跟我們報告齁 現在有13家有同櫃啊來 因為現在還會陸陸續續登啊我們會去審查所以只要他沒有做到洗錢房子服務能量登錄他就不得提供境外公司也是如此嘛對不對然後我們會有一些洗錢房子的查核所以這個洗房法我們有幾點那你們用什麼手段來防止限制他提供服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11147.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11175.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
有沒有辦法禁止金融機構跟他交易?他就沒有那個虛擬帳號所以你如果不是這53金融就不給他虛擬帳號來部長請聽現在我們金融會配合協調的就是已經不合與虛擬帳號如果他不完成登錄但是我認為不合與虛擬帳號是減少他的殺傷力並沒有完全禁止他的破壞力啦簡單講這些三支呢只要沒有完成登錄他高風險金融機構不可以虛擬帳戶但是根據銀行法第45條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11177.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11188.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
銀行要建立內機內控銀行法第129條第1項第7款他可以處於華凡你們可不可以協調金管會直接禁止金融機構跟他交易或者停止解析境外網域可以抓到這一點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11189.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11211.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
我們在跟金管會就是在這裡面有一些共識所以所以會那個那那這個這個停止解析金管委員這個如果有法如果有有法員對有法員那趕快跟我們講我們訂進去好不好跟我們報告這因為過去這多少委員提醒啊這樣子我們會後我們跟金管會看他在銀行法或是銀行法相關規定裡頭怎麼去做執行因為這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11213.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11236.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我們一邊來修嘛好不好我過去有在財政委員會啦我來去協調最後主席站起來了我就做個結論希望你們比照金融機構第三方支付要成立工會啦他律也要自律啦那是不是請今晚會我們去請他徵詢香港工會的意見第三方支付也有專屬的工會比照金融機構成立專屬工會建立自律塊你們樂不樂見 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11238.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11244.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這個我覺得很好很好很好謝謝我會跟今晚會的主委來報告這一點謝謝謝謝鍾嘉斌委員發言完畢現在請王洪威委員發言好謝謝主席我請黃部長請黃部長好委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11268.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11281.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
部長因為我本人對你比較陌生那我今天看到好像今天媒體有問你問題你今天不就是不回答媒體的問題單純只是生理上喉嚨沙啞還是你比較謹言慎行 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11284.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11285.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
剛才確實大家都是提到有關於法詐的 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11313.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11314.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
對,他應該有跟你那個complain這件事情吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11333.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11357.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
有那我也請那個那時候馬上計時處理半月都在處理那時候我們那個那個呂書長有在書長是不是可以說明一下就趕快下架委員報告那因為這個委員也有在新聞上面說這個那副市長就很關心所以我們就因為算名人嘛因為這個部長嘛所以我們就請他去做下架那目前他這兩則的確實都已經下架所以這個以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11358.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11383.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
可是問題是還有很多的名人我上次聽到一個企業主管他是他的老闆跟他抱怨他幾乎每個禮拜都在處理要求他們處理就是冒他的名做這種投資的這種平台這個問題仍然沒有辦法解決那到底是為什麼那另外我們到底這個實名制那個機管會說已經有上路了但是為什麼還是會出現這樣的問題呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11386.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11392.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
還像這個郭部長還是會變成冒名成為詐騙工具呢?但是我們在通過之前能不能跟這些Google Meta請他們要必須予以配合呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11410.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11435.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
經過我們其實在上一屆我們不停的質詢然後我們後來林佑昌部長後來才去代會了包含Google跟Meta那讓他們可以說24小時內下架以前連下架都非常困難可是這樣子大家疲於奔命到底我們一定要等到我們打詐在專訪通過之後才能夠根除這些問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11437.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11459.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
我們現在先成立一個叫打詐通報查詢網那這個問題就是說希望能夠縮短就是說基本上如果我們看到我們自己會主動去去這個像Facebook去scan如果看到這樣的一個廣告我們馬上就通報Facebook希望縮短剛剛講說半天或一天的時間現在我們是希望馬上下架所以這一點第一個我們時間上可以用技術把它縮短第二點就是說剛剛講委員講的沒錯我們會跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11462.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11485.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
這幾個平台公司常常的溝通聯絡然後希望他們完全配合我們的那個政策那目前有逐漸的看到一些效果但是但最後如果要用強制方法還是要靠打砸專法通過我們有棍子可以敲他們現在是說要求他們要在臺灣必須也要設立這個代表人嗎對不對至少要有法尊的代表對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11486.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11504.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那在這之前在法之前的話我們難道就完全沒有任何的工具嗎那還有未來這個打砸磚法是不是對他們會有這個罰則呢有會有罰則那如果打砸磚通過的話基本上就可以罰那罰到一個地步如果他們不配合我們甚至你們準備怎麼罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11507.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11522.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
這個罰的細節就是說每次委員最多可以罰到怎麼樣你們現在準備要怎麼罰對於這些近外的平台然後他們沒有設這個在台灣設代表人或者沒有配合我們這些打詐相關的這些程序要怎麼罰法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11523.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11523.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
網絡廣告平台業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11540.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11566.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
這個每一條文的這個設計法則那這個法則最高可以處罰到這個2500萬那中間當然有一些通知的期限啊等等那這個在行政院在打詐司法討論的時候我們這個打詐專法的第三章其實政委有做跨部會的一個橫平性那這個要拜託委員如果我們這個法律在審查的時候那委員早一點讓法律通過我們能夠有一個法尊的部分謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11568.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11590.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
最高的話是2500萬有連續罰嗎?因為他這個甚至有些如果還經專家會議審議可以有時候限制流量或是阻擋連結這些我們都在條文裡頭有一些規範那我想這個其實大家對打詐都非常的重視也拜託大家委員來給我們做協助以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11591.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11592.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
王宏威委員發言完畢,現在請葛如君委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11623.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11624.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
謝謝主席有請黃彥男部長備詢請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11636.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11660.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
王部長好好久不見其實我們10多年前就已經見過面了當時我坐在您旁邊有很多的學習很高興今天有機會在交通委員會透過質詢來跟您交流那部長今天的業務報告和媒體專訪當中都有提到數位部接下來要推出的這個三件啟發的策略那內容當中有許多方向是與本席的想法相近的同時我也非常肯定您提到這個數位經濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11662.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11679.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
所以經濟是AI未來發展的這個康莊大道同時也是元宇宙的基石我相信這個這幾支箭都是非常有希望的那以下就來針對部長的這三支箭來跟您交流第一點數位發展部過去在電子信箱法的修正案的討論過程當中其實非常的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11679.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11697.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那也說會拿來打擊詐騙各界的共識之下也順利的在4月底三如通過那本席非常樂見這個部長的第一支箭就是推動打詐工作剛剛也提到3個月內要成立這個打詐通查網那你也提到這個裡面希望仰賴民間業者的協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11698.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11718.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
除了剛剛提到的很多廠商之外廣告平台商也是有能力去偵測詐騙帳號的如果這些GAFA可以多做一點事情的話可能會減少很多詐騙請問一下部長有跟哪些平台聯繫的因為剛剛都零星人有提到我這邊就確認一下有跟哪些平台聯繫的聯繫的進度如何廣告平台商對那個那個署長可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11719.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11741.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
委員報告謝謝委員讓我們有說明的機會其實我們次長上禮拜上任第一週禮拜五就已經找Google Meta9來討論針對於打詐專法裡頭相關的一些些規範執行上怎麼處理那以及跟委員所來幫忙大家在一起支持的電子簽詐法之後如何在打詐專法草案的第30條能夠用 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11743.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11768.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
數位簽章或者FIDO或者是其他安全性的技術來驗證所以這些細節的部分應該一邊在你草案同時甚至還有一些執法要討論所以林次長已經有主持會以上報告時間有限感謝你都有達到了剛剛我們這個週末的時候這個在Meta這個平台被洗版看到很多名人接下來其實很多免費的YouTube的用戶也開始被詐騙集團的這些影片廣告給這個投遞那LINE更不用講更是一個大宗 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11773.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11801.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
當然我相信這些公司都沒有意要這個協助犯罪者那我想政府也必然有責任要來跟他們一起連結啦那我們另外一個問題也想請教一下這個通查網在建制的時候很可能也是希望大家來通報嘛對不對那讓你們可以查詢有沒有要導入電子簽章或數位身份的驗證行動自然人憑證TWCA的身份驗證讓檢舉人可以更快的驗證檢舉人的身份來幫助你們通知這些平台更快的下架這些廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11801.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11823.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
因為這些平台在意的是什麼?到底是不是真正的人在檢舉?有沒有思考過要導入這個?這個當然是如果這個是就是如果我們要驗證通報人的身份當然要用這些工具好謝謝希望考慮一下那同時呢也部長也提到強化數位韌性是你的第二支箭那資安非常重要你們有這個資安檢測協助的服務但是目前只針對企業來提供資安檢測的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11827.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11844.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
二零二二年臺大的兩個網站被害二零二三年臺大教務處的網站被害二零二四年期間大高中呢這個這個相關的被害兩萬筆資料流出那有沒有要提供民間團體學校數發部有沒有來輔導這個能不能稍微回應一下我們請那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11845.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11848.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
委員會對有些服務團幫助做一些服務那過去有些績效我是不是請那個署長先說 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11859.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11869.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
好的謝謝委員因為治安的是必須聯防所以其實我們所有發現的那個就是案件或者是他攻擊的樣態我們是會對民間分享我問的是治安檢測服務網目前只針對企業提供服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11878.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11900.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
而且還有30家優惠名額那學校呢?民間團體呢?政府單位呢?我們剛剛提到的全部都不是企業啊除了政府機關以外我們那個中小企業的部分我們今年會來擴大來協助提供這樣的服務對不起我時間有限我打斷你因為我剛剛問的是政府我不要問中小企業我也沒有要問企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11901.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11925.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
麻煩回去稍微了解一下這個資安檢測服務應該要幫助更多人第三支鍵部長提到數位經濟我想數位經濟這兩字很微妙又有數位又有經濟我在這邊這個過去8年我們作為公民來觀察以及本席上任以來100天的質詢經驗裡面我已經發現只要有一個產業超過一個以上的部位在負責相安無事的時候有錢大家分 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11926.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11936.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
但是出事的時候沒有人要扛,最後都在踢皮球。你踢給他,他踢給你。請問一下部長,數位經濟既然是數位又是經濟,數位部打算怎麼和相關部會分工? |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11937.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11961.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
數位經濟我們最主要是剛剛講就是軟體服務業嘛然後資訊服務業這是我們現在主要這個還有就是相關的像電商呢這些軟體出版業所以我們有些產業是我們要輔導那因為這些產業有AI會用AI跟資安的技術所以AI的產業資安產業也是我們要輔導的好希望注意一下分工那南北AI生態園區有預算規模有實成了嗎到底是著重軟體還是硬體 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11963.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11977.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我們跟那個國發會的那個劉部長劉主委現在還在討論中不過現在是這樣子就是基本上我們是希望全島都是一個AI島然後這個AI所謂生態園區應該是跨全島而且是軟硬整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11978.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11985.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
好,真的是有很多事要做,真的拜託這個部長我們一起努力,那最後我問一下這個剛剛我有聽到您的答詢,說這個問您說怎麼來這個阻止這個詐騙盛行,您有提到說這個聲音這個被偽造的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11996.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11997.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
通關密語的方式。 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12011.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12031.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
應該已經知道公告出來了嘛 對不對已經公告了但是呢這個我們這個電子簽章法呢這一次有排除電子簽章法的公告原則上路以後一年以後各部會都不可以排除這一年已經開始倒數到今天已經過了13天過了3%了有沒有建立輔導的機制跟掌握時程的規劃對不起主席再借30秒謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12033.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12053.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12053.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12078.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
政府機關能夠把電子簽章法能夠快速來做導入如果有的話請提供給本席那也特別希望數發部真的要持續幫忙尤其司法體系真的他們的工作量能應該要用數位來協助同時電子簽章法也已經上路總統也公告了我相信各單位還有所有的民眾也都非常的期待希望我們可以一起努力達到便利民眾便利公務人員的流程減輕工作負擔任務謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12079.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12096.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
好,謝謝葛瑜君委員發言完畢。現在請黃珊珊委員發言。謝謝主席,我請部長。請部長。委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12104.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12121.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
是部長我想大家都還是非常關心的都是詐騙的問題那當然數發部是新成立的一個最新的部但是對於詐騙大概也是很重要的一個部門我們是一個ICT大國但是我們的數位建設好像並沒有非常的先進對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12122.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12143.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
數位建設其實我們過去這幾年像比如說數位政府推了20年其實我們推很多東西並不輸給國外像電子花票啦我們網路報稅但是我們如果去一趟美國大概已經不太看得到美金了甚至你去一趟大陸大概也看不到人民幣可是台灣的電子支付還是不夠普遍這可能也是數八部接下去需要做的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12144.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12174.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
好接下來我想問一下有關詐騙因為唐鳳部長在的時候我們有一再問他現在的詐騙案包括虛擬資產包括第三方支付大概都是最新興的產業那這些產業他可能因為他的便利性成為詐騙的工具之一所以現在的問題是我們抓了很多很多的詐騙的犯人但是我們找不到被詐騙的錢主委同意吧部長同意吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12175.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12203.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我們事實上應該這樣講去年就根據我手上的資料去年我們這個阻擋了這個詐騙的錢跟扣留的錢差不多將近100億所以事實上是有些錢還是有追回來的但是很多是追不回來有些是追不回來大部分的被害人都是收到一個判決書然後車手沒錢了再見沒有沒有下一步所以我們希望的是能夠成立一個不管是現在打詐專法還有現在正在審的期錢防治法 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12205.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12229.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
部長現在的問題是我們現在目前為止包括我就舉虛擬資產來當例子好了他跟調查局跟刑事局有一定的溝通的管道他每一個單位要通報銀行他就沒有管道然後跟165跟警察之間要靠傳真來做聯絡甚至法院會跟虛擬資產業者調資料但是也沒有平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12230.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12249.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
檢察官也會調資料也沒有平台那現在這個問題是所有的通報機制都是互相斷開的也就是說大部分目前為止可能我是虛擬資產業者我也很想通報我這邊的異常狀況可是我並沒有任何的機制所以我在唐鳳部長在的時候我就跟他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12250.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12270.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
這些事情其實你要法務部或者是金管會來做其實很困難的數發部大概是目前政府部門裡面對於這些相關的機制包括之前很成功的111政府簡訊平台還有徵信券還有疫情期間其實數發部是應該有能力來建置這個平台部長同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12270.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12297.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
就是我們那個短碼平台本來就是我的意思是說將來的詐騙防詐的平台包括虛擬制裁業者包括第三方支付包括現在有的銀行之間他們現在完全沒有聯絡虛擬制裁業者跟銀行是沒有辦法接觸的但是他們很多賬戶是同一個我要講的是民眾要的是我們要我們扣錢的速度要比詐騙集團來得快我們才扣得住錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12299.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12321.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
對,報告委員所以我從那個打詐通報查詢網就是希望能夠很快的但是現在這些都沒有進到你的查詢網對還沒有查詢網還沒有成為部長我需要你的時間雖然你剛上任我覺得這件事情很重要打詐專法出來了洗錢方針法出來了但是平台沒有建置起來就等於是沒有用所以3個月之後3個月之後我們會建立這個平台3個月對 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12323.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12338.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
我現在有碰到一個問題我們現在正在審洗錢防治法那洗錢防治法我們查了一下數發部到今年為止數發部也是洗錢防治的一個重要的機關但是你們部裡面有關洗錢防治專業證照的人有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12341.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12368.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
因為我們成立一年多那其中一位同仁其實也到國外去受訓所以會有一位有一位有一位他去韓國受訓這個人才培養所以要謝謝委員的指導我們會努力那因為我們負責的是洗錢房子裡頭第三方支付這一塊那虛擬資產這一塊當然就跟經管會來去做協作那經管會不管過去的主委先生主委都要做我們不能夠落後人家我們是洗錢房子就我們人員只有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12370.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12370.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
數位金融 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12389.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12411.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
這些都應該在行前方式上面有一定的功勞就絕對不能夠落後好嗎最後就是你們的你們在管第三方支付那金管會又管電子支付超過一定規模所以部長認為第三方支付應該是你管還是金管會管現在第三方支付我們已經在處理了但是你會管嗎你管金流嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12412.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12427.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
我們就是有個能量登錄他那個那個他要去申請虛擬帳號一定要經過我們能量登錄所以現在就是很多的新興的科技都有不同的管道但是如果打炸要必攻其一役我們希望你能夠把這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12428.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12448.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
包括剛剛講的虛擬資產他在管第三方支付你在管但是平台之間不聯絡這才是我要問的是數發部應該來統合讓這些單位聯絡在一起他用了虛擬賬戶可能又跟第三方支付有關可能又跟銀行賬戶有關他其實是需要一個系統來統合 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12449.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12450.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
謝謝黃森山委員發言完畢 現在請洪孟楷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12480.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12480.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
主席謝謝麻煩請黃部長請黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12489.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12512.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
委員好部長好部長數發部第一次來立法院業務報告大家也都很期待從一年多之前數發部的成立國人都很期待希望數發部真的能夠做實事您接下這個部長本席也對您有所期待首先在打詐的部分國人還是非常的關注那我們現在在講是說因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12513.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12536.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
訴發部決定要加速封網是不是就是說詐騙的一個部分封網要有這個要有法而且要有那個執法單位的同意我們不會說隨意就封網還是要根據法沒有辦法隨意封網但過去大家到現在看到的是說因為詐騙層出不窮那不管是之前的詐騙或是說像之前吵得沸沸揚揚的這個創意私房的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12539.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12566.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
狀況就變成是說山不管地帶啊衛福部推給速發部速發部推給NCCNCC再說所以就變成是說大家在那邊繞圈圈那真的是因為國人群起嘩然之後創意私房才一直公文命令可以火速的封網所以我們要講是說未來還有那麼多不管是創意私房或者是說這些詐騙的網站一夜市的網站一夜市的網頁我們要怎麼樣能夠比較源頭的來解決這樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12568.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12584.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
一頁式的網頁我們目前並沒有辦法去封它因為那個我們用的是像DNS這樣子我們一封就是封整個網所以封整個網需要有法源的依據那一頁式網頁它可能是依附在社群媒體平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12584.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12611.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
對 所以這個東西就會靠我剛剛講就是說我們有開始有些像剛剛講的打炸通報查詢網希望就是讓民眾或是我們自己去scan去找到這種一夜市的網頁之後我們可以很快的通知不管是平台商或是平台服務商或是這樣就這樣要趕快下架希望他們下架的時間能夠縮短好部長您這樣提到一個重點了我們能夠希望預期多久時間能夠讓社群媒體平台下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12613.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12634.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
那個目前這個通報網像我們那個如果那個打詐狀況通過之後我們當然希望即時下因為它如果不即時下架我們是可以罰錢那現在的做法是說我們目前所看到的是像臉書啊這些東西有時候會拖到一天或甚至兩天那經過我們這樣的查詢希望能夠縮短到比如說半天之內把它下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12635.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12635.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
是部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12654.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12682.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
本席提醒喔其實從2021年當時的東京奧運的時候我就開過一個記者會就有媒體就有民眾來跟我反映他看到一夜市詐騙東京奧運中華隊口罩中華隊對一他詐騙集團很聰明啊他們會用最熱門的話題啊WBC世界棒球經典賽紅的時候他們就說是賣世界棒球經典賽的衣服那民眾下單下訂了買到了他用貨到付款的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12682.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12697.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
真的付了錢一打開啊裡面一樣是有寄來衣服啊但他那個衣服跟網頁上的衣服完全不一樣那這就是一頁是詐騙嘛所以這樣的一個網頁我們已經看到了結果通常都還會掛在那邊而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12699.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12721.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
詐騙集團很囂張阿他下面還有那個計時器一直講說現在有多少人買了多少人買了趕快下訂喔那這樣子未來半天內有效可以剛剛下架是嗎就是說我們會跟平台商剛剛講說溝通就是說像這種那個民眾如果是像這種真的去買這種不實的東西的時候的通報所以我希望平台商能夠盡速的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12723.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12749.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12749.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12775.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
提供這樣的一個分數的訊息至少有民眾說我買的東西是假的那這個東西他抱怨了以後他給他一顆心或兩顆心等於是擦皮就對了就我們現在也要把那個炸片網站也可以比說PC或蝦皮他們都有這種分數嘛是那就跟民眾在採購的時候看到這個分數才知道說我可不可以跟這個廠商下單因為這個確實牽涉到廠商心理問題部長這個三個月內可以出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12776.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12776.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
有沒有討論過? |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12803.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12815.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
他們的意向如何?他們是持開放的態度還是覺得說你政府部門不要管我其他國家都沒有這樣用為什麼我要特別配合我們中華民國政府他們的態度如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12816.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12839.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
有人說的沒有錯,事實上我們在上個禮拜五已經跟幾個主要的網路廣泰商跟他們溝通過。他們第一個抱怨就是說他們是因為都是國外很多大型的平台都是國外的公司,他們說他們要遵守母國的那個法律規定等等。那我就提醒他們說既然你們到了台灣做生意,你們還是得遵守台灣的法律。 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12840.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12857.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
是就像台灣的公司到美國日本去做生意一定要遵守他們的法律那另外一件事情就是他們也有在抱怨說他們需要18個月才能修改他們的程式那我們也就提醒他比如說現在臉書他本來就有限制說 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12858.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12862.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
2020年的時候政治類的廣告要投放預算廣告要下廣告最後要實名制了 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12881.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12895.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
2020年的時候就要了就到2024年那些詐騙集團下詐騙廣告還不用實名制莫名其妙嗎是那我們這一這部分我們會分為兩個管道來兩方式來處理一個就是我們在打詐新法 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12896.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12920.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
通過之後我們有一些法律上的手段可以對這些網路平台商處以罰款那另外一方面我們就希望藉由那個輿論還有的壓力就是因為這涉及到他們的商譽那我們也會提醒民眾說來部長最後一分鐘好不好因為主席已經站起來部長其實剛剛這樣子講我想這也是過去我們一直在這些詐騙裡面遇到的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12921.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12945.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
已經說穿了啦 他們沒有什麼18個月才能改程式啦 如果今天可以賺錢的Program 18個小時他們可能工程師加班也都趕出來啊 因為這個不是賺錢的 這個是相對來講會限制他們的收益的 還有就是這個東西是付出成本的 所以當然能拖就拖嘛 我現在沒有指責任何一個社群媒體平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12945.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12967.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
但是我們要的是他要散盡社會責任不能讓社群媒體平台變成是詐騙集團的一個溫床或是詐騙集團的管道來去媒介去投資投放詐騙廣告所以部長除了剛剛講的詐騙專法通過你能不能多跟他們高層也好多約喝幾次咖啡 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12969.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12990.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
來要求他們善盡社會責任對啦就是說會要求然後會希望他們配合我們台灣來做打詐的工作好部長我們會持續的來跟你溝通我也希望真的做出實際的成績好不好好這一點再拜託謝謝洪委員的發言現在請游浩委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13005.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13005.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
請部長請黃部長謝謝趙委員部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13014.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13038.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
委員好部長好那部長就是今天大家許多的議題都環繞在打詐的部分還有包括之前您所提出的三支箭的部分所以其實在今天許多委員的質詢可以看得出大家對於您上任數位發展部部長跟您新的包括次長以及大家整體團隊是有很深的期待尤其是大家更是期待希望能夠在 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13038.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13061.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
您帶領的這個數位發展部跟以前的這個部的情況來講能夠做出明顯的差異跟進步進展那所以說剛才回歸到像孟凱委員有提到就是在打詐的這個通報網的部分以及包括剛才建豪委員有提到那其實在這個通報網還包括專線那以及包括像我們看到現在詐騙的部分是層出不窮 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13061.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13082.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13082.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13104.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
其實民眾尤其在中南部鄉下大家所缺乏的是大家並沒有辦法取得那麼好的一些工具或是包括這些網站或是這些知識或這些宣導的一些要注意的事項那如何能夠來去強化尤其在中南部在鄉下地方來去解決大家對於這個打詐或是防詐騙的這個知識的宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13105.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13129.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我們那個就是會有一些宣導的一些服務跟團隊然後再利用這個地方比如說像DOC這樣去做一些教訓練那當然我也講過就是說我們會把一些詐騙的看到詐騙拍成端影或是文字再利用這個社群平台或是他去做宣導那當然這個鄉下的這個下鄉的很多工作我們已經在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13130.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13146.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
是那個我們系署長這樣子好了我這就是提一下這個部分那也我也不追這個預算變劣跟明年度的這個預算大約目前的這個成效跟執行率那我直接就是今天就是第一次嘛不能一直質詢嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13147.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13169.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
那還是期向是期許啊這個三支線的這個包括打仗的部分能夠有所成效那也知道您跟國發會主委劉靜清交換意見完共同要籌設這個AI的生態園區那在南北還各設一座園區力拼數位經濟產值兩年內突破一兆的目標啊這是好事一件但是本期想要請教一下目前這兩個地方預計這個園區建設在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13172.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13198.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
我還沒有跟劉主委在我們要進一步討論那剛剛有講說其實有很多那個很多地方其實都都都還蠻合適說我們盡量跟地方政府配合不過現在就是這樣就是說有基本原則我跟劉主委談的是有個共識就我們希望這個園區一開始是兩個但以後可能不只兩個但是這兩個一開始應該是要離高鐵站很近就是說大家在彼此的這個這個交通都都可以很快所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13199.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13206.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
應該會在高鐵的附近,那至於說在哪裡,我想我們後面會再做更進一步說明。對,那個,謝謝部長,因為我聽到一個聲音,變成這樣,變成,南島就比較吃虧了。對啊,南島就沒高鐵站了。南島,南島,我們就是剛講,因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13217.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13236.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
這個園區是上中下游都有啦所以不會說只有在那個地方就是說我們上游可能在所謂的這個辦公室但是中游跟下游都是遍佈全省所以為什麼說要交通快就是說我們期望就是這個AI的成果能夠推動到第一個國內第二個到國外所以南投一定是我們一定會有服務在那邊沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13237.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13263.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
因為像賴清德總統他選前提出逃出苗大溪谷計畫其實現在目前許多縣市都遇到土地不夠的問題跟聲音那所以在這裡也特別也跟部長做邀請就是中部地區其實是急劇開發潛力加上其實在中部來進行這個AI生態園區的設置不僅是南投受惠啦整體中張投受惠相信它帶動的外溢效果是包括連北部南部我相信都會受惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13265.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13294.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
我們會再去評估再討論好謝謝那接著是也要再接著請教因為剛才許多的委員都有詢問到一些相關問題但是有幾個部分我也想要接著就教像年輕人現在愛用抖音啊那近期美國要求短影音平台TikTok強制脫離母公司自己的跳動若不遵守就要禁止TikTok在美國音樂城市的平台上架那想要就教部長在台灣會不會也會禁用到TikTok |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13294.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13314.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
我們實際上我們第一個就因為這個TikTok的危害對全世界民主國家都一樣那美國已經在做剛講就是要求他們在那個當地要落地嘛那我們這個大概幾個月就會發生了所以我現在希望是說我們先看美國怎麼做我們就效法美國的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13314.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13339.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
那最壞他如果不願意在台灣落地我就把台灣的那個所謂的TikTok的那個連結連到美國的TikTok而不會去連中國的TikTok所以我們看到的TikTok是美國版的TikTok這是我所期待看到的所以就是說基本上我們可以從網域的設定這個網域的指定去把我們在台灣能夠接觸到的TikTok不會是不會是那種我們認為不好的不良的 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13340.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13355.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
這個部分的一個意見的溝通跟表達有跟TikTok的在就是相關平台的業者來去做?還沒有但是我跟你講第一個第一個是希望他們跟一樣要在台灣落地那當落地如果我剛剛講說如果落地不成我們就就在網路上做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13356.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13375.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
好那接著另外一個議題就是臺灣也是很注重版權的地方啊那雖然發生許多抄襲的事件讓了遺憾但是媒體溢價還讓媒體報導資訊運用可以在網路社群平台利潤公平分配的問題那想要就教一下部長未來數法部有沒有朝向專法的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13376.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13377.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
所以方向上是會往專法的方向來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13396.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13397.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
最後我就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13426.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13446.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
數位身份證數位身份證部長您的態度跟看法數位身份證現在是因為這個當初我們要一個要專法還有個個資保護嘛這個要先過嘛那這個我們就等這個那目前其實有些取代的方法比如說FIDO就是說有些行動自然人憑證這個可以暫時先滿足現在這個網路上認證的需求不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13447.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13473.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
這個數位商證我們看就內政部在主導我們先看這些所謂的這些專法跟就是這個跟這個所謂的這個各自保護法在完備之後如果需要推動我們會配合推動那就是在立場上這個數位發展部還是會支持持續推動網路商證這有很多方法啦那數位商證是一個方法但是我們現在有所謂的FIDO有所謂的自然人憑證新中自然人憑證這個可以這個已經可以再運行我們就先用這一個這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13478.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13485.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
謝謝油花委員,剛才也不小心誤案,跟油花委員抱歉。現在請林月琴委員發言請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13501.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13525.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
您好部長好事實上過去我們台灣大概在NCC管電視台然後報業也有在做自律可是事實上網路事實上是我們最為擔心的就是自律的機制一直是不存在的那加上現在就是我們大概對TikTok這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13526.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13553.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
我們有很多的擔憂所在下一頁那目前TikTok的用戶最大宗的是青少年那青少年下一代又是我們最要守護的那從2023年TikTok的數據報告大概18到24青少年的用戶事實上是最多的那的確他在註冊的時候有限制要年齡使用要需滿13歲可是我們在民間團體的調查裡邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13555.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13576.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
未滿13歲的青少年實際上是有在使用的也就是大概三四年級的兒少就已經開始使用那請問一下這個狀況我不知道訴發部有掌握嗎因為既然成立了當初我們民間團體也是對於訴發部成立有非常高的期待所以也想問一下說部長對這件事情有充分掌握嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13577.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13594.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
這個TikTok我還是想TikTok這個問題我個人是我覺得就像我剛剛講的這個TikTok就是有很多這個它的短影音它的所謂的這個內容是一個問題但是它這個後面所牽涉的假訊息是另外一個嚴重問題所以整個一起處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13595.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13615.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13615.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13616.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13631.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13655.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
那這是另外我們有一些查詢的系統可以查詢TikTok上面的訊息的部長這個當然也是要各部會一起來不是單一可是實際上當數位成立數位發布當然也是期待除了數位的發展可是還是我常常覺得科技帶來文明可是它有時候同時帶來傷害所以抖音這件事情到底對孩子有什麼危害就是它的短影音本來就有 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13656.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13681.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
有一種讓人家上癮的那個演算機制不斷的去推下一個甚至他本身就是一個創作者那所以歐盟2024年大概2月份也提到說要進行一些調查去了解到說到底可能刺激行為成癮跟演算法的一些系統我不知道就是說今天訴發部到底對這個有沒有什麼樣的因應的對策 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13682.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13712.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
就是那個我剛就講說說那個現在就是因為這個影音這個這個這個我們暫時會是也是跨部會合作啦跟NCC等來一起合作那至於說這個TikTok這個問題就像講就是說我們希望未來能夠統一處理就是說能夠比如說有法律或者是說我們就剛剛講就是說如果我們將來這個東西能夠連到美國就美國如果通過TikTok落地我們也希望落地落地來管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13712.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13730.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
當然都會講說教育部這邊可是那事實上緩不濟急所以你可以看到這個影像當中自虐式的危險挑戰像傷痕挑戰這去年歐盟發生的這樣的一個事情甚至有一些昏迷的一個挑戰或者是瞌睡肌肉的一些挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13731.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13731.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
獲得獎項 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13750.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13768.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
做一些心理測驗還讓兒少誤以為自己心理上都有一些疾病狀況那所以我不知道就是訴發部對於這種危險挑戰毒品危害那健康資訊的錯誤到底有沒有一些可以怎麼去做防堵 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13769.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13797.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
對,我們前面有這樣說我們會有打詐查詢跟通報網如果大家民眾將來看到這些短的影音訊息如果不確定他剛講就是說比如說像這個毒品妨害或者是對身體的這個心理我們就會很快的送給比如說衛福部來看心理部處理如果這些訊息如果確實有一些不良的影響我們當然是希望能夠很快的再澄清或者是跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13798.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13823.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
下一頁,因為前面的已經是一個問題可是他們最新版的又推出那個TikTok Lite有一個鼓勵機制讓你可以賺到錢所以呢會鼓勵更多我們的青少年私商師會更想去做使用下一頁,那就TikTok Lite它的整個歐盟已經展開調查那我想先問的是說下一頁,這是未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13825.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13845.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
在臺灣使用TCOG的兒少人數的樣態這邊數法部是不是可以去掌握而且是不是跟著我們打造新法的腳步要求TCOG落地獲得內落地的管理甚至未來可不可以預計一下就在臺執行這種點數的獎勵計畫這邊數法部是不是也可以清楚去掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13845.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13846.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
謝謝林月琴委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13874.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13896.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
現在請李坤誠委員發言在李坤誠委員發言之後張祺凱委員發言完畢我認為必須要讓大家休息沒有拜託因為大家都非常辛苦我也認為12點半之後沒有讓人家吃飯這都是不人性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13897.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13912.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
那我們在張祺凱委員發言完畢之後我們會休息半個小時現在請李昆城委員發言謝謝我們昆喆召委那也請我們黃部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13919.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13944.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
委員好部長好第一次碰面辛苦了這個質詢到中午這個部長剛上任之前也接受蠻多的媒體的質詢詢問我覺得這是蠻好的跟媒體做一個溝通那你提到說這一個有三件有三支件第一支件打詐第二支件數位韌性第三支件是數位經濟那我看今天很多同仁都是聚焦在打詐這方面那我們這個打詐專法也送到立法院來了那打詐專法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13946.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13968.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
有部分條文是跟數位發展部有相關的那我請問一下就是說當然我認為數位發展部在這一個討論之前應該是有跟這一個各個網路平台有溝通過那現在這個已經送到立法院的版本那他們的看法是怎麼樣有跟他們在做後續的協調嗎有那個我們這個請市長因為上禮拜才跟他們開過會他可以做補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13970.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13995.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
因為我們對於這個專法裡面這個要求的我認為是還蠻多的第一個就是說要這個落實實名制然後這個他們在臺灣必須要有這個法律來代表然後呢那如果這個違反我們的規定的話我們有罰款最高是到2500萬然後呢這個那甚至如果說這個不聽的話我們還有這個封網應該類似封網的這個這個這個條文的規定嘛那請教一下次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13999.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14003.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
他們對於這個我們即將推動的打轉專法,他們的看法是怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14005.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14032.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
我們在上個禮拜有跟幾個主要的那個網路跨國網路廣告平台我跟他們做溝通哪些公司就是Meta還有Google還有Line那他們的態度事實上算是相當配合但是有幾件事情第一個他們抱怨說那個他們都是美國或日本的公司所以他們要遵守當地母國的法律那我們也提醒他們說 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14032.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14060.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
沒有錯,但是你們這些跨國公司到臺灣來做生意你們還就得遵守臺灣的法律而且我們的這個打造專法有違反他們在母國的法律嗎?應該是沒有沒有嘛對所以這個我們就是希望他們配合然後另外一件事情是他們有在抱怨說那個他們如果要改程式的話必須報給母國公司然後母國的公司的技術團隊去做改變的話可能需要18個月等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14060.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14076.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
我認為這是推脫啦 是就是推脫之詞啦 是我念一下現在這個實名制 實名制現在是Google有寫實名制了嘛是不是網路廣告的這部分 有沒有投資廣告這部分的話 因為我廣告政治廣告的這個實名制他們也在施行了 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14077.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14102.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
網絡廣告的部分我們在打詐專法的第37條我們就規範說你這時候要用電子簽章或FIDO或相關合乎的技術來去做這樣的一個調整所以這個拜託委員到時候30條才對對不起30條是實名制的部分我們在這一個投信投過法裡面其實就要求你如果是廣告的話你就必須要採實名制那個是之前打詐無法的時候對但是因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14103.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14122.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14123.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14144.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
臉書Line都沒有目前就是因為他說這個要我們現在用行政指導的部分但是因為這個實名制應該法還在修嘛所以這個到時候拜託委員多給我們知道這個我們一定會支持的那我意思是說就算我們通過之後他們還要18個月的時間嗎這個我們次長就會有我知道為什麼喝咖啡啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14144.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14173.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
喝咖啡速度會加快嗎?我們有提醒Meta就是說他們現在在Meta就是臉書上面的那個政治廣告已經要實名制了所以我們是認為說我們是認為說他們其實不用修改那個程式至少不用大幅修改只要把現有的機制把它從政治性廣告擴大到那個投資性的廣告上面只是把它範圍擴大一點而已對啊那所以這個基礎上是可行的那如果這個專法通過之後這個大概要求他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14174.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14190.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
從18個月可以降到多少?可以採市民資?那個如果我們那個通過之後他我們就可以他要求他配合對那如果不配合我們當然隨時可以罰他就罰他對他就可以罰他對好那所以如果這樣子的話他們應該不用18個月的時間吧對那那這個就是說那最快呢最快要多久? |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14191.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14219.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
我們法通過之後馬上就可以進行那當然就是就是如果我們就是剛剛講就是他如果不配合我們打詐的話我們當然就可以隨時發那看這個法什麼時候通過我們什麼時候好那我再問TikTok最後的時間TikTok這個這個前部長他是認為說他是一個危害的產品那我問一下部長的看法勒那個我是我也是一樣的看法就是說這個東西有太多假訊息在上面了所以對確實是我們應該處理好那這個TikTok要如何管理勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14219.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14221.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
在台灣要落地管理嗎?有跟他們先溝通過了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14242.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14243.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
那有關於這個假訊息的管理委員會這部分勒? |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14254.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14275.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
假訊息管理委員會對我看你說想要成立一個假訊息管理委員會這個應該是這樣就我想這個我們剛講就是說訊息的所謂真假一個當然是跟專業比如說衛福部就衛福部然後農業部農業部但是如果有些訊息的真假的話還是需要個Committee來審核那這個我們會來進行就不是一個人或是一個部會能夠決定應該是一個Committee |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14276.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14282.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
好,那下次再問,因為時間有限。主席也站起來了。好,謝謝李坤城委員發言完畢。現在請張祺凱委員發言。張祺凱委員發言完畢之後,我們休息30分鐘。不好意思。 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14315.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14320.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
沒有聲音喔來請議事人員處理請黃部長請保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14332.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14346.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
委員好我可以看你講到說要這個臉書的主管賣的主管說要去喝咖啡 喝咖啡好事啦可是用那個字眼說威脅好像重了一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14349.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14368.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
我們要修正一下 修正一下 修正一下 應該是說 你在故意讓人家看起來嗎 我看你不會講什麼重話 我就在民間待太久 我們修正一下就好了啦 其實老實講 從部長嘴巴講這個話是重的 而且是個跨國公司 我們把它修正一下啦 其實應該是說 我們應該是要勸導嘛 勸導 應該是說 力勸他們 行刑善誘啦 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14374.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14375.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
對台灣傷害是很大啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14385.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14409.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
我們台灣人是受害很嚴重,我們也很憤怒。所以外面循序善後勸導,而且我們也要讓人知道這個對台灣傷害很大。我們說很多人家破人亡,甚至是人命關聯的事情。所以跟他們勸導,可是也要讓他們知道台灣人非常在意這個事情。我們就修正完了,所以一個是勸導,我們沒有用威脅的啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14410.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14417.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
還是說你這麼說他你威脅你這輩子講過最重的話是什麼我看你應該也很少講很重的話對不對很少很少這種人你說要威脅別人沒人要信啦說實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14420.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14448.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
就是我們欠打循行善誘可是也要讓他知道臺灣人受害很深請他們一定要善盡他們的社會責任好不好我們就把他修正完了這個就很清楚了來我來看我們臺灣有兩件事情在全世界明天現在不好就是那就是行人地獄嘛再來就是詐騙之島所以這件事情一定要處理沒問題我們大家看一下我統計了最近這10年所以是10年我們詐騙案件你看那個金額啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14450.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14467.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
103年到33年到今年112這個詐騙金額已經高達89億件數啊也從這個兩萬三千多件以下成長到去年已經是三萬七千件所以老實講這個成長速度特別是不斷去看有沒有有一百空高年開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14468.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14491.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
到112年那充電泡了喔所以這個明面很深明面很深齁那麼看下一張那最主要在什麼地方呢其實是臉書跟LINE嘛就是你在找臉書這兩個國際媒體很重要來我們看一下下一張大家都可以一起來看這一張齁保定你都看了陳文謙這個粉絲專頁看這名謝金河數字台灣的粉絲專頁一般民眾有辦法判別這個是詐騙嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14504.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14517.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
你看旁邊有幾個贊助這贊助代表就是說我如果自己我如果自己要去登我幹嘛去贊助臉書做這個事情所以看到兩個贊助就要稍微懷疑那就是代表有人出錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14518.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14545.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
我自己名人我不用贊助人也要給我點嗎?所以我們有這個專業的部長在那,那全國民眾都聽到部長講就知道怎麼去辯別了你小陳文茜這個,欸歡迎大家加入文茜的純股社團,啊蔣阿民你跟謝金河,欸老實講這個詐騙真的也有做功課啊,他說新能源是未來最大趨勢喔,那這需要這家電池產業的還要私密跟我領取那現在聽部長講了,這個以後大家就注意一下好不好,來我們看下一張,跟著來 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14547.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14568.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
所以另外有一個方法啦大家知道藍勾勾嘛對不對藍勾勾我們提醒民眾如果有藍勾勾的這是一個真實的帳戶現在看麻煩的你現在在臉書上面齁有藍勾勾之外其他你都成文欠了啦什麼謝金了幾堆了啦一二十個你先把它下架完之後它就又上來喔所以這個打詐的速度還要再加快一點我們來看一下這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14570.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14586.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
你看這個是最近行事局公布的最常常被這個冒名的財經專家排行榜這個大家注意一下那我們看下一張下一張時間有限這個是很嚴重的每一天啊台灣人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14587.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14597.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
每一天一百零六十六點八個人接到詐騙的這個可能是臉書或者信息這個問題是嚴重我們看下一張我剛看了我是覺得蠻好的就是部長上台有這個打詐通報查詢網 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14604.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14615.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
打炸3年這很好這我想簽名會鼓掌我們希望一定要講到要做到要落實好不好那我來跟你探討一個就是可能要強化的我們現在在那個臉書的詐騙店面齁我在問就是你們現在數位發展部跟臉書那邊溝通暢不暢通 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14623.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14632.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
還算暢通還算暢通我們上禮拜才跟他溝通更早我有跟他有喝咖啡後來上禮拜跟他做專業溝通我們把它很明確的話第一你要跟臉書或者是跟LINE很清楚說我要取得詐騙就是這個粉絲詐騙假冒這粉絲專頁那個詐騙的帳號跟他那個粉專的統計數據因為我們沒有會給嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14649.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14663.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
到目前為止有多少類似這種假冒的粉絲專頁這種有通帖收集嗎?你在上任之前有跟他們提過這個我希望他以後每個月給我個數字那我會再追這個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14664.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14664.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
第二個我要問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14683.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14702.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
現在那個詐騙的這個粉磚他會行刑到被檢舉這個平均時間大概多久?現在的平均時間你之前有這些統計嗎?就是這個詐騙這個粉磚一開始可以行刑到到被檢查這個多久的時間?那越等越慢對不對?報告委員我們現在還沒有統計但是我們這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14703.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14720.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
馬上要做的我們希望做這個統計我們就是希望把這個從他設立平台到通報然後再到檢舉然後再下架把所有這些時間盡量把它縮短我們就是要知道嘛如果就是被騙的人就越多啦那你一樣一個禮拜內把這個給我好不好另外第三個資料是 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14721.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14722.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
數位發展部的網站上面公開好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14739.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14750.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
我們想在一起,我們觀念是一致的,我覺得我們觀念想到一起去了,你們這個打炸通報查詢網請,也放在上面這打炸通報查詢網出來,裡面就是當時來補,我們當時上過臉書,臉書梳理多久,所以這個資料大家都查詢得到,我們也會把它做在連結到我們書法部的網站,這過去比較久久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14761.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14761.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
我們現在休息1點15分繼續開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14792.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14792.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14835.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14852.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14859.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14865.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
17043.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
17064.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
好,我們繼續開會也先向楊瓊英委員感謝現在請楊瓊英委員發言謝謝主席,楊瓊英發言首先邀請部長請部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
17071.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
17089.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
部長好部長你來自產業而且實際操作過而且也知道產業界的新生所以我們很歡喜是一個專業而且務實的這個部長這是我首先給你的註解所以我希望以你的專業協助政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
17089.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
17111.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
指揮我們的部到底要怎麼做所以首先我要請問你上任之後公部門的各自外卸要怎麼樣防堵那你在上任之前我們第一任的數位部長是唐鳳那麼你覺得你跟唐鳳先生最重要的你這個部長的職務最重要的不同點在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
17112.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
17125.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
報告委員那個我在媒體上講過三支箭那是針對現在政府最需要的工作來做馬上的處理那關於治安這一部分是這樣治安是我覺得第一個單是我們會一個是法規我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
17129.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
17129.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
﹚廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
17148.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
17175.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
需要再加強所以這個我們會加強那當然這裡面有包括就是說我們的一些措施比如說我們有什麼就說就連信任架構這一定要推這個政府雖然在講可是我覺得這個要強化推動如果我們能夠推動連信任架構能夠剛剛講就是用法規讓我們資安署能夠做更擴大的集合跟資安的演練會讓我們資安做得更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
17176.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
17204.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
那將要各自被外洩的這個管道就會下降很多你這麼回答也就是本席剛剛給你提問的您這任部長跟第一任的部長最大的不同點可以解讀是剛剛你所說的這幾項嗎?也就是以往沒有做到而且我們看到了這個問題必須要去做對也不能說以往沒做到就是說以往有這樣的一個目標但是我這邊會深入再去推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
17205.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
17233.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
希望有這個目標但是就是沒做到所以你現在堅韌下來要努力做可以這麼解讀嗎?所以本席要告訴你從2016年開始我們看到包括中華郵政商城勞動部發展署權序部戶政資料這個非常的嚴重建保署華航會員資料庫都有各自外洩的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
17234.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
17249.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
一直到這兩年當然我相信你在業界媒體你都看到這個報道你點頭了但是案碗上面有人在多收千多萬筆的全國人民的戶政資料而且經過大局確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
17250.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
17252.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
第二項本席要請教你媒體溢價法 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
17277.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
17288.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
這個是大家都說都務必必要的都是必要的那但是必要呢那研議了三年多第一任的部長也說必要研議了三年多但都沒看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
17289.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
17313.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
你上任了部長,你認為這必不必要?報告委員,我剛上任,但我對這問題還是蠻關心,因為牽涉到所謂copyright的問題,版權,那同意,但是現在就是說有稍微有點複雜,就是因為現在生成是AI,AI出來以後,這個問題又變得複雜,就是說AI的訓練模型,它一樣有同樣的問題,所以就是說我們要一起處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
17313.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
17331.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
那怎麼處理呢?現在就是還要產生一個共識。但現在有的做凍結權的問題是不是可以用這種方法來處理?或者是要立專法?我覺得這個還在討論中。那我希望很快的能夠有個共識。您說的很快要多久?在第一任的部長3年多告訴我們是必要的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
17332.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
17352.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
那因為呢新聞有價的概念我想大家都都都都贊同的那至於方式以及新加入的AI系統這樣子的一個科技出來那部長你是專家你認為你多久時間可以去研議諸方案出來不管所謂的專法還是任何的方式這個就是我們已經開了8、9次會議好像在對這個你遇過大概多久時間那我想再請署長再 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
17358.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
17361.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
告訴我們大概多久時間,可以告訴我們你的方法、草案．請告訴我時間,因為時間的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
17376.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
17401.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
請告訴我,你大約多久時間?這研議來報告,普通來我們就自己報告,去行政院因為這幫去報名,這行政院要統籌各方的意見那你們自己預定的KPI的時間點在哪裡?因為這個要凝聚大家的共識,因為現在就公開就分析過程我們宣布,你自己你要研議一個方案已經三年多,你總是有一個你希望的KPI的時間點嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
17404.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
17429.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
因為過去都是行政院開會所現在也是一樣你大概要多久?因為你延續性的嘛委員報告我如果幕僚準備各種方案其實之前大概上個月在前面的內閣的部分也到行政院去討論過但是沒做這個政策的決定所以現在新內閣只有一百年所以給我們一些時間然後這個都要跨部會去討論部長你待會主席來部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
17432.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
17451.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
本席還是希望你去盤點好不好因為你已經第一任三年多告訴我們很重要但是沒有答案我們希望你去盤點辛苦加油好不好最後一個議題我給你因為大家都知道這個點面線的打造成效到底是多少因為越打越炸 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
17456.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
17477.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
現在你說我看到你受訪你說你要成立一個打詐通報查詢網是不是對這是你要成立的嗎已經在準備中對準備中齁我們看到很高興因為現在所有的國家隊打架隊打詐司法什麼的越多方案出來面對的問題越多 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
17479.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
17494.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
所以我們有看到你說打詐通報查詢網這個idea不錯你現在準備中大概多久這個我請林市長在負責這個查詢網請他說明你一國來你一國大概多久可以告訴社會大眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
17496.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
17516.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
17517.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
17534.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
對 有了一個開頭就很好所以一個結論就是說那個行政院已經通過打詐專訪那在整個執行過程當中民眾要怎麼樣能夠安心這非常重要所以3個月內你們第一批的這個打詐通報查詢網會上線 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
17537.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
17549.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
到時候出來的時候我們也希望好好的宣傳讓民眾可以運用得到好不好好謝謝楊瓊英委員現在請陳冠廷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
17574.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
17575.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
數位發展部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
17583.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
17604.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
委員好部長好部長今天早上你說在法律工具還沒有完善之前那我們大概是只能請這些社群平台業者來去道德勸說那我在這邊也是呼籲我們所有包含這個在野黨跟其他的這些朋友在許多議題上面我們有分歧但是在打詐的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
17605.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
17626.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
這個是全民共識所以我希望現在行政院的草案已經一讀那我們可以好好做下來及時管預把這些廣泛討論把哪一些法條你覺得未爭之處我們把它尋求共識完整的及時管預一起來守護民眾的權益因為其實現在如果在沒有法律的基礎之下那強硬的叫部長做些什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
17627.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
17628.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
對於TikTok的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
17651.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
17666.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
我們是預計先透過打造專法讓他能夠落地設立代理人才有辦法去納管嘛不然的話我們無法去能夠在非我們的這個國境內去處理嘛我想請問一下部長對TikTok的落地納管的時程可不可以先跟國人報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
17667.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
17690.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
一旦我們的打詐算法通過之後我們就馬上要求剛剛這些平台業者落地那落地如果他不落地那我就是對TikTok我們特別處理就是我們我剛剛在前面解釋過我們如果他不落地我們原則上不會用這個所謂這個比如說中國版的TikTok我們會看美國這邊美國也因為要求他落地 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
17690.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
17692.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
對﹐就是說希望美國黨這邊至少他們在這方面至少假新聞這些問題會比較少 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
17719.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
17736.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
對那字節跳動已經上訴這一個美國聯邦政府到底未來有沒有辦法出售或者是禁用底論上現在還是未知但是傾向可能是會被禁用跟出售的可能性還是相對高啦所以在這段空窗期間剛才部長講的就是你所謂的配套措施嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
17738.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
17766.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
你說那個在美國的時候在美國這個現在是這樣子啊現在說TikTok在目前的情況我們當然就是說如果我們剛講說有個打詐通報查詢網嘛這段時間如果有在TikTok看到這些訊息就是說錯誤訊息不管是對兒少有影響或是一些這個對健康有影響或是這個我們會很快把它到傳給各部位去做判別如果真的是假訊息我們就會要求他再從山裡面下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
17768.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
17788.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
謝謝部長你剛剛講到這個跟兒少相關然後還會競速的來傳遞給各個不同的部門那我們當然是肯定這是很重要的因為其實除了治安餘力之外還有這個兒少方面相關的他們之前那些想昏迷挑戰18個月就導致大概20名15歲以下的兒童死亡所以這些都是現實發生的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
17789.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
17804.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
那當然就是剛才我們提到的這些資安餘力的部分那已經有多達11個前TikTok的員工證實他們是會每隔14天就把資料傳向北京的總部所以這些是已經現實存在的問題那我希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
17805.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
17827.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
緊快我們把這個詐欺犯罪無害防制條例希望能夠跟不管是在野陣營的各個國會議員我們趕快討論完趕快通過之後將由法院依據我們才能夠緊速的來去處理這些問題再來我要請教這個部長紅色供應鏈的部分那今年3月賴總統來到我們嘉義參觀無人機國家隊的時候那有媒體是在報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
17829.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
17844.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
這個有一個螺旋獎的碼頭上有made in China的字樣那這個媒體還有在野黨的立委都有非常深刻的這樣子的批判雖然說這個已經是一個多月前的事情但是我還是想要質詢一下確認我們國家的資安政策針對報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
17846.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
17870.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
政府禁紅利的規定台灣無人機的這個部分到底哪些是可行哪些是不可以哪些是可以用這些包含其他國家的哪些是我們有限定一定要就是以這個新單上面來講一定要用台灣本土製造的或者是比方說跟我們最友善的國家製造的這個部分可不可以請這個部長簡單或者是請相關的這個部會這個已經有在處理是不是很簡單的報告一下好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
17874.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
17892.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
謝謝委員無人機部的部分我們要先跟講要講清楚就是說我們數位部呢包括我們的電競技術中心他基本上是協助交通部對無人機管理上就資安的檢測部分所以剛剛委員您的那個要詢問的部分可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
17892.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
17909.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
要問交通部這一塊會不會比較清楚因為數位發展部去年3月有推動成立無人機資安聯合檢測實驗室數位發展部就是以檢測為主我們協助交通部對所以說也是有在做這樣的事項我們已經檢測很多款了而且我們沒有拿到你們的資料但是我是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
17909.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
17931.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
媒體他們去問資安院,資安院說沒有沒有這個無人機資安檢測那我意思是說部門內部數位部裡面彼此之間要大概知道一下我們有做哪些事情這樣子報告來講說不會說我們完全沒有做然後報告就會不斷的衍生然後可能會在因此而打擊政府的威信說啊這個數位部什麼都沒做但其實是有做的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
17931.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
17947.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
因為你們的檢測實驗室已經協助13家無人機廠商22種機型通過產品驗證所以你們有做有做就要講出來做得好要講出來並且要有一個完善的一個好的界面讓人家知道說這是可以我們有在檢測我們有做出這些成績來好不好好謝謝部長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
17950.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
17964.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
好謝謝陳冠廷委員發言完畢現在請羅志強委員羅志強委員羅志強委員現在請鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員不在現在請吳春成委員吳春成委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
17967.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
17979.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
吳春辰委員不在現在請鄭天才委員鄭天才委員鄭天才委員不在現在請蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員不在現在請陳培宇委員發言謝謝主席那有請書發部部長謝謝請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
17993.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
18023.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
好部長我的時間有限我就快速跟您請教並且想要拜託數發部積極關注這個議題就是關於兒少在數位環境當中所面臨的困境跟風險在安慰的報告裡面提到兩個很重要的事情而且也是很多時候會發生相關嚴重的新聞社會事件就是傳送性相關的訊息給莫名的網友或是不認識的人在網路上傳送自己的性相關訊息或者是在網路上做網路霸凌我們來看相關的數字下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
18023.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
18051.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
在相關的研究當中呢從111年的數據他們說如果有自己傳送性相關訊息經驗的小孩有2.5%可是到了112年增加到4.6%可是我們都認為這個數字可能還是低估了就目前而上在數位環境中的困境是第一個性相關訊息的傳送經驗第二個是關於網路霸凌加害的經驗大幅的增加111年是0.56到了112年增加到百分之 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
18051.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
18073.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
八點八也就是說在數位環境當中而少最容易面對困難就是我剛剛說的那兩個傳送性相關的經驗跟網路霸凌好往下那我們看到你們在你們的業務報告裡面說你們即將針對特殊族群進行數位使用情形分析例如身心障礙者還有網路沉迷但是我這裡沒有看到對於青少年或是兒少的關懷 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
18074.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
18085.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
不知道這個部分是不是可以加入你們相關的研究計畫當中?這個我們可以再可以加入問題這個我想做這個這方面研究是不是那個對我想這個應該是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
18088.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
18115.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
應該是說只要您願意做應該加入相關的研究並不困難事實上我們之前在國科會我們也拜託國科會啟動相關研究確實在相關的學者會議上有很多的學者就說我們確實對青少年的數位時代跟數位時代青少年跟使用環境是不熟悉的那你們既然數發部要開啟相關研究我認為你們要加入對於兒童跟青少年對於數位環境使用經驗的相關分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
18116.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
18143.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
這個我們應該可以做對好可以做嗎確定齁可以好謝謝那我們就記下來了我們辦公室也會持續追蹤好下一題那另外你們有一個數位政府司喔就是要協助跨部會進行很多相關業務的整合那我們要先說明一下我們要感謝教育部跟文化部在去年修訂了相關黃牛票專區我們發現在運動產業類有檢舉黃牛票專區在教育部可是文化部呢有演唱會之類的票可是呢他基本上是兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
18144.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
18163.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
好這是第一個問題好來下一個如果我們有發現大人對當兒少不利的很多事情在衛福部有所謂違反兒少法的公告這是單獨一個網站另外在幼教法的部分關於幼教老師對於兒少相關不當的對待在另外一個網站可是這兩個網站我剛剛說不管是兒少或是黃牛票 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
18164.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
18184.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
一般消費者或是對一般家長公民來說我要去理解你跨部會這些資訊我怎麼知道我要去哪裡查我們可不可以做到辨明這件事情一件事網站查詢資訊整合不知道你們可不可以協助相關部會做跨部會的整合需求先進行相關評估會議在三個月內可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
18185.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
18204.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
市長這個應該可以吧跟委員報告這個沒有問題我們會找相關的部會來討論好那我再跟您確定一下喔市長這是那個數位政府市的市長一個是衛福部跟教育部在兒少相關資料的網頁好下一個上一個是指教育部跟文化部的黃牛票專區喔因為這確實都需要你們協助他們做跨部會的整合好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
18205.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
18224.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
好,沒有問題,那我們辦公室也會持續追蹤那也先謝謝,然後恭喜新的部長上任我相信在很多的議題上,國人對你有非常多期待跟關注跟想像,謝謝好,謝謝部長,謝謝主席,謝謝好,謝謝陳培宇委員,方揚王斌現在請謝一鳳委員謝一鳳委員謝一鳳委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
18226.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
18248.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
登記諮詢委員均已發言完畢．作以下決定．報告及詢討完畢．委員羅志強所提書面諮詢．列入紀錄並刊登公報．委員於諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分．請數位部盡速以書面答覆現在審查數位發展部主管預算凍結案計11案．請議事人員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
18252.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
18275.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
討論思想審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計11案以下數位發展部含簡訊一、通案決議三、行政部門關鍵民生系統經濟雲端備份及回顧計劃專案報告案二、該部決議一、業務費向下委辦費預算凍結四分之一書面報告案 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
18276.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
18291.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
三、該部決議二、一般行政預算凍結兩千萬元書面報告案四、該部決議三、建立全民數位韌性連結民主網路預算凍結十分之一書面報告案五、該部決議四、創新數位跨域 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
18291.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
18317.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
協作訂定智慧應用基礎預算凍結十分之一書面報告案六該部決議五一百一十二年出國成效期一百一三年預期效益專案報告案七該部決議二十八一般行政預算凍結百分之三書面報告案八該部決議二十九網路政策發展規劃預算凍結十分之一書面報告案九資通安全署決議一資通安全業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
18318.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
18329.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
預算凍結兩千萬元數位報告案十之通安全署決議十一之通安全業務預算凍結一千萬元數位報告案十一數位產業署決議一促進數位創新動能轉型升級預算凍結十分之一數面報告案宣讀完畢以上十一案請問各位委員有沒有意見好沒有意見第一案及第六案 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
18345.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
18369.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
準予備查提報院會．其餘9案均同意動之提報院會。針對本次會議作以下決議．討論事項所列113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計11案第一案及第6案準予備查提報院會．其餘9案均同意動之提報院會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
18370.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
18374.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
本日議程處理完畢現在休息5月29日星期三三午9點繼續開會 |