| IVOD_ID |
15941 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15941 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-22-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-23T08:30:39+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-23T12:58:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:27:21 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d6cf3c1b5b9bab9d4a74692de86cf8f7f3be8d109af184be4f27e357327e0c02f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算(公務預算)解凍案7案。
【5月22日及23日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:39 - 12:58:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1338.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1338.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
發言委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1766.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1792.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
報告委員會現在繼續開會。今天議程有兩項。第一、邀請國家科學及技術委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況．並備質詢。第二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算公務預算解凍案共7案。我們首先介紹在場的委員。我們看到柯智恩召委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1795.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1812.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
黃孟楷委員我們來介紹我們新任的國科會主任委員吳誠文還有兩位副主委陳秉宇還有陳宗全副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1814.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1837.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1839.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1845.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那我們首先就先請吳主委來進行口頭的報告時間10分鐘主席各位委員先進大家好感謝各位委員對國家科技政策的重視很榮幸出席大院教育及文化委員會就國科會業務進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1870.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1899.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
全球面臨氣候變遷激烈人口結構失衡地緣政治變化的多重挑戰臺灣天然資源有限應以無限之科技潛力化挑戰為契機打造智慧科技島國科會與薄化科技政策資源基礎研究推動創新創業完善科學園區等四大任務之下秉持專業穩健前瞻的傳承信念 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1900.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1915.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
配合總統五大信賴產業持續引領台灣邁向2035前瞻創新、民主包容、韌性永續的科技願景。緊就未來施政重點說明如何首先 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1916.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1931.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
接棒雙軸轉型領跑科技新舉2023年底科技顧問會議對我國半導體及AI和近鄰科技這兩項重大議題發展提出高端原組的建言 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1932.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1953.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
國科會與此兩大領域已有穩健務實的前瞻佈局後續將以行動創新精神推展今年啟動之精創台灣方案強化先進及成熟製程晶片在各類產業的多元應用期望透過AI的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1955.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1957.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1972.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1991.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
將相關科技應用於太空、量子、6G、次世代通信等未來潛力領域讓不同產業互相加值向上進進。相得益彰。於淨零領域持續協同相關部會落實淨零科技方案透過能源低碳 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1993.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2018.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
負擔、循環、人設等面向協助產業近鄰轉型同時發揮海洋國家優勢探索海洋科研全方位邁向永續台灣此外今年底將召開12次全國科學技術會議廣納產官學院各界意見破壞未來4年具體可行的國家科學技術發展計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2021.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2047.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
第二、扶植基礎研究培育多元人才尖端技術奠基於基礎科學的長期成果國科會核心使命是鞏固基礎科研透過穩定且適度成長的預算支持學研界持續深化前瞻科研也藉由鼓勵基礎科研的各項獎補助措施吸引更多學生投入研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2048.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2070.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
後指未來科研人才同時兼顧援助民主性別平衡生育支持等多元需求營造友善的科研環境藉由有形及無形質量兼具的全面支持策略起始學研界無後顧之憂的深耕基礎科研進而開發結果高階人才是國家創新的資本國科會也將透過 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2083.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2096.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
科研國際合作的推動因地制宜策略性的引進國際人才鼓勵海外科研人才回流逐步培養我國系統城市的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2098.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2120.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
進而吸引國際投資臺灣提升科技與產業的競爭力讓我國人才及技術比肩全球科技來自人性科技亦需結合人文方能大放異彩近來AI大舉影響各行各業轉型的浪潮下也是人文社會導入科研 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2121.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2139.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
擴展跨域的契機人工智慧以人為首國科會將力推跨領域研究引導科技資源投入創新解決方案並鼓勵人文及科技對話交流萌生創新研發的文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2140.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2151.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
以蘊含人文精神的科技協助改善社會議題進一步培養出兼具洞察社會需求能力的創新人才塑造多元包容的社會文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2153.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2177.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第三催生健康台灣共創全民幸福國人運動風氣日盛國科會將發展適合全民的運動科技除了藉助創新技術協助選手量身精進訓練期待能在巴黎奧運再創佳績同時普及全民運動鼓勵產學界開發AI相關產品協助民眾強健身心體魄 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2178.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2199.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
國科會將藉助台灣半導體優勢、跨部會合作、深耕精準醫療、藉助前瞻學術研究並善用大數據與AI運算能量致力於早期篩檢重大疾病之技術研發、發展預防醫學、開發新穎生物標記及疾病風險評估模式。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2200.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2214.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
持續整合生醫等跨領域研發能量投入精準健康智慧醫療運動科技高齡產業等領域增進國人健康共創全民幸福 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2215.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2234.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第四、致力創新轉型、構築永續園區推動科研創業為國科會政策重點之一將透過強化引進國際創投資金、吸引各國創業精英等途徑策略性鏈結全球資源、壯大台灣創新創業生態系 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2236.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2245.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
此外規劃提供先進運算能力磨合市場法務財快等專業領域發展異業AI新創提升產業競爭力國科會以全國高度規劃發展科學園區3個園區目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2256.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2276.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
共進駐1100余家廠商,帶動超過32萬高階人才就業,創造3.9兆元的產值,將兼顧區域及生態均衡發展,全力推動各案新設及擴建計劃如期如止完成。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2277.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2295.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
除了全力鞏固我國半導體全球領先地位更要全心協助產業升值轉型展現台灣整體產業群聚價值強化全球競爭力朝向精緻多元節能永續的典範科學園區邁進 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2297.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2321.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
最後有關113年度主管公務預算的解凍案包括採團法人國家實驗研究院國家同步輻射研究中心及非營業特種基金等共凍結7案約3900萬元針對委員關心的議題國會已督促國研院等法人強化推廣研發成果專利應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2322.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2342.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
並均衡支援各地區大學院校的服務能量持續完善核心設施並積極落實科發基金預算案推動整體科技發展的相關工作國家的科技政策應長期累積且延續國科會將持續推動各項前瞻政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2343.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2368.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
在規劃層面強調跨部會協作整合國家科技資源跨領域融合人文與科技跨產業協助創新轉型發揮跨界縱向資源層面與創新突破與普惠共享間宏觀且前瞻的配置科技預算將科技運用在社會民生福祉有關的領域與議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2371.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2382.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
穩步引領台灣共創包容永續的智慧科技島以上報告懇請委員鼎力支持並敬祝各位身體健康順心如意謝謝好謝謝謝謝我們吳主委的口頭報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2394.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2404.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們現在進行綜合詢答每位初期委員質詢8分鐘必要時延長2分鐘立期委員質詢時間為4分鐘發言登記截止時間為上午10點30分委員落臨時提案僅於10點30分前提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2415.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2433.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
並於本會委員羅廷偉委員質詢結束後進行解凍案及臨時提案的處理處理提案時若提案委員及聯署委員均不在場原例不予處理我們首先就請發言登記第一位我們的柯之恩昭委質詢謝謝昭委我們請我們的吳主委好有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2446.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2453.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
主委好你今天站在立法院備詢跟你過去當少棒國手站在投手球上面的感覺是如何?雖然是不同的不同的場合但是身為先發投手我一定投好球但是你今天不是先發投手今天是我當投手你來接球好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2472.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2477.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
而且你過去當過投手當過二壘手你當過游擊手都是一個非常所以今天給你當一個你從來沒有當過的捕手的角色看你有沒有辦法接到我所發出的球好不好好我們先來看一下這個賴總統呢他認為這自詡他的團隊是AI內閣所以我想他對於這個半導體的科技計畫是非常的重視你也是這方面的一個專家我們就一一來檢視雖然你剛剛上任但是你應該看過國科會過去一些補助大專院校的這些的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2501.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2507.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你對於他們推動相關的半導體科技的計畫的成效你有掌握還是你會不會滿意到目前為止我其實有相當程度的掌握因為我也是其中一位你滿意嗎?國科會過去補助的計畫的成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2521.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2539.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
算是滿意啦算是滿意那我們來看看數據來說話一下好不好你們過去花了非常多的時間在不同的計劃方案上面可是呢我不用一一條列這個數字不同的方案但是你會發現一個共同的公約數就是呢逐年年次的申請的人數是逐年下降的那這樣一個逐年下降來說的話主委為什麼會造成這樣一個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2545.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2565.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
你們說經費變多了但是申請的人數案件反而變少了你覺得這最大的原因是什麼?不瞞主委說其實我們整個高等教育的人力包含教授人數跟學生人數其實是在下降當中這一點其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2566.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2578.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以你認為可能是因為人數下降的關係所以他們投注在你們所花費最多的半導體的人才上面可能因為這樣就讓人才的申請案就會慢慢下降嗎?這是一個原因是?人數下降?好啦那就是人才的問題了我們再看往下來看一下啊主委員你不要緊張啊這個絕對比你這個還要那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2587.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2587.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
議員吳誠文列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2606.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2622.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
而且呢你跟其他國家是完全不能比而且呢跟過去10年前動輒打到9.8經費的占比來說我們的基礎研究你也知道基礎研究是非常重要的到目前為止我們的比例是非常低的你有沒有什麼其他有用的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2624.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2638.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
謝謝委員指教這一點我是認同就是過去我們的科研的投入的這個經費其實跟先進國家比起來是那你有沒有其他積極性的一個做法我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2640.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2653.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
其實在前政委吳正宗的支持已經有擴充了我們的科技預算未來會持續再增加對你就提到了你們擴大的科技預算但是還是一句話你們申請的建樹 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2660.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2665.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
還有包括的這個人數我來給你看一個數據啊競參連的申請的這個件數啊少了1333件你合定少了625件所以你們不斷的告訴我們你們的確是非常的重視這樣的一個產業啊但是呢也給了一些的錢但是呢從數據來看的話顯然沒有達到很大的一個效果而且我特別的強調如果你沒有基礎研究這個半導體的話啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2686.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2691.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我覺得賴總統所謂的要信賴這個產業我個人覺得是畫上一個非常大的一個問號的我們再來看一下我們來看一下下一頁這就是為什麼我特別提到的因為呢上一次我們在這裡的時候你們李敏崇副主委他特別坦誠因為國家投入基礎研究的預算太低 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2706.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2719.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
但8年過去了到底有什麼方法可以來做這樣的一個處理而且呢我告訴各位因為你們認為說希望民間能夠鼓勵更多的投入基礎的研究但稀累全國的基礎研究大概685億企業部門只佔9.4%一成都不到所以你們雖然喊出一個很大的一個口號希望企業界能夠投入可是目前為止成效是非常糟糕的還有呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2734.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2752.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
主委你也在學校待過嘛每個人都說你只要學校框上一個AI的名號就有辦法申請比較多的一個經費你看看嘛加了一個人工智慧加上一個電腦科學跟人工智慧加上什麼連包了一個智能應用組名字都取得非常的好聽但是主委你也知道老師如果不再出去進修老師如果不會跟業界再繼續做結合光是同學老師用20年前的教材怎麼有辦法改個名字就有辦法讓我們的AI的人才的進步就可以存在這點你同意吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2763.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2779.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
同意這個球就是直接接到了他們說三振或者是好球很straight非常好但是我還是要告訴你做了哪些很不好的地方你看我們歷年申請的件數我一直覺得這個申請的件數雖然是一個量化可是它是一個參考值來說那你會看到這個申請的一個件數包括你們過去非常強調的新秀學者、年輕學者、優秀年輕學者你看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2790.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2797.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
整個的件數來說的話足足少了目前只剩下1158主委數學算一下足足少了635個人這是比率是非常高幾乎像是腰斬一樣我們再看下面一個我現在只呈現這些數據給主委回去做一個參考你看我們今天人次的表講座教授、課座教授、國會會的講座人數也逐次的降低我覺得讓我最擔心的一件事情是什麼你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2816.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2822.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
你十年來的計劃補助在台灣參與你花了這麼多的錢即使我認為人才是應該流通事業性流通的但是我們資助的這些本國籍的博士後你看一城市是提早離開的在簽約完一城市提早離開的那外國籍的這個人更不要講他根本有四成的人是返回他母國任教的雖然人才是流通但是我們花這些錢把這些培養好每個人都走掉了那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2844.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2861.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
的確這是一個問題但是也是值得我們高興的就是說這些人才其實都提早進到產業界了那我們的計畫的件數下降還有一個原因就是因為我們有多年期的計畫在鼓勵所以計畫的件數是下降但是他們的經費是大幅的提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2861.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2861.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2882.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2882.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
議員吳誠文 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2904.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2916.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
打倒你當初的預期目標在你回應這個問題之前我先告訴你一下因為我們目前為止有關於化合物半導體的發展在國外我們晚了非常的多中國大陸他大概是花了44兆來全力發展第三代的半導體而且我們現在目前來說歐美已經掌握了90%的關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2924.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2941.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
﹏﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2943.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2965.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
所以你看他通常都會投一個直球對不對都不會有曲、彎曲你會達到喔那你到底認為有這麼大的一個信心喔我還是要提醒喔因為我們目前為止在這一塊很多原料會因為地緣政治非常多因素的一些的影響所以呢他會做到這樣的一個程度喔不管你是政法專家我還是給你賦予你比較大的一個鼓勵啦但是呢我還是要特別提到除了你剛剛說的這個層面來之外下面一個我覺得這是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2971.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2976.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
因為這也是你剛報告當中你也認為近鄰轉型也是你們國科會裡面非常重要的但是你看看這個數據你覺得這會是賴總統舊時候跳到第一張票嗎為什麼你看看看我們設定的所有的近鄰排碳的這個目標我問過中研院的廖院長他認為要達到這樣的目標是非常非常困難的我肯定他講出一個實話 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2993.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3014.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
同樣是學者出身這沒有藐視國會這個問題完全沒有好不好這反案還沒有通過我們也不會問這些無聊的問題但是呢你看各國所設定的這些的目標裡面來看的話我們距離賴總統告訴我們要達到淨零排碳的這樣的目標以我們現在的發展的方式來說是遠遠遠遠落後非常多你自己認為呢這也是你們主軸的一個計畫方案嗎這個任務非常艱難我們會努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3021.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3025.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
所以各位這個學者專家講的還是比較客觀一個說非常的困難一個說非常的艱難所以呢你們都不願意講其實很困難根本不可能達到因為呢國會已經提到了這個2023到2026你們會每年投入150億的這個經費150億的經費你覺得你的效果可以達到什麼樣的一個程度這是我們很可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3041.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3063.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
因為這是賴總統特別承諾大家的往後要這個部分中研院跟國科會這兩個我們號稱全國最聰明的腦袋的人才都在這個地方所以我只問你嘛五大精靈科技到底能夠有沒有辦法提前落實有沒有辦法在2030達到24%減碳的目標主委一句話只求行或不行沒有需求行或不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3069.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3070.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
接下來請洪孟楷委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3104.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3107.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
主席謝謝麻煩請吳誠文主委好有請吳主委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3114.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3141.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
主委好,主委非常有拼勁喔昨天帶著新任團隊一致排開跟媒體見面會喔那也誇出海口說三個月要做出有感的成績阿不是規劃,會宣布規劃,不是成績喔,不是做出阿,是規劃要做有感的政策是不是那有感的政策,我還正想要稱讚您說現在敢誇出海口的政務官不多了沒想到你連讓我稱讚的機會都不給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3143.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3150.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我們會把方案推出來好方案推出來那方案推出來什麼樣的一個部分是認為說之前是沒有做好或沒有做主的 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3152.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3181.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
之前比較照顧大型的企業我們將來依照賴總統的指示一定要均衡所有的產業我們希望都能夠受惠於臺灣高科技的實力所以說之前有一些中小企業是比較沒有受惠到嘛所以你要講是說要用數位轉型的計畫對不對有數位轉型的計畫也有跨部會的方案就代表說過去在數位的科技運用在中小企業上是比較薄弱的是不是過去比較比較小但是這是市場機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3182.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3210.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我們現在就是藉助政府的力量來協助來彌補市場機制的不足所以你的方向是會以補助的方式還是引導的方式還是政策導向的方式兩個都有會以什麼樣的方式兩個都有我們希望在學界由國科會來補助在業界由經濟部來補助我們配合教育部來修正我們在學制的發展上面鼓勵教授帶著學生也可以做這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3211.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3212.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
國科會學界國科會產業界經濟部協調經濟部共同執行本席要問的另外一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3230.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3249.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
因為你自己有透露說這個整個團隊裡面來講現在外交部林佳龍部長也問說何時可以一起喝咖啡說要討論說如何用科技來協助友邦那另外經濟部長也提出說台灣要到海外設晶片園區的想法是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3250.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3271.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
這一點還在構想還在討論當中還在構想但是因為這個是從媒體這邊看到是您這邊講出來嘛那請教經濟部長既然你現在有跟他有這個talk說海外設晶片園區那請教是到友邦還是非友邦我們沒有講晶片園區其實產業非常多元當然很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3272.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3272.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
議員吳誠文列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3296.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3299.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我們心心念念認為說AI人工智慧基本法在今年可以推出 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3314.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3332.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我們規劃中是今年會推出我們是希望說在年底之前一定會做到一定會做到是指送到行政院還是行政院可以推出版本來給立法院審議國會負責就是要送到行政院那目前的方向勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3334.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3349.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
目前的方向因為本席心心念念本席我們幾位委員在立法院也已經有AI人工智慧基本法的草案已經出來那當然大家也是希望輸出能夠排審就是最主要要院板這邊要出來大家可以針對這個議題來去做討論嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3352.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3367.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我們現在正在廣泛的諮詢各界的意見包括學界、業界、民間在國科會在出來之前我相信應該也會有諮詢其他這個公聽會或說相關的一個意見那什麼時候能夠讓大家可以看到一個雛形 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3368.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3392.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
既然你有講是說年底一定會出來那什麼時候能夠有個雛形至少讓大家知道說你的方向以及之前本席也問過其他之前的主委我們到底我們的方向是什麼是要比較走向的是美日兩國這種相對比較開放的地方還是說我們要對於歐盟這邊是相對比較保守或說比較謹慎的地方您的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3393.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3419.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我認為兩者要兼顧也就是說保護保護民眾這是非常重要的但是我們不能夠忽略掉產業的發展所以我們會兩者兼顧我們在在這個以前少胖的時候沒有二刀流喔不然我覺得你很像大谷祥平喔又投又打講的面面俱到一拼八拼雙拼根啊但是有講好像沒講 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3420.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3440.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
您比較衝著本席第一次見面我覺得大家都是以禮相待而且只要是專業我們以專業論專業這沒有問題但說實在話你一定有你的方向之前主委講是說我們應該會比較朝向美日就是以開放但是我們希望能夠借重AI但是我認為兩者要兼顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3442.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3468.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
兩者兼顧我們期待看你的這個版本出來之後到底是怎麼樣的兩者兼顧希望您說到做到再來有提到是說台積電二奈米廠要進駐希望台積電能夠跟流台灣當然我相信台積電也一定全國國人沒有人不相信台積電會跟流台灣因為台積電也是我們中華民國的驕傲但是過去很多台積電的設廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3470.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3490.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
應該是由台積電本身來發布但沒有很多時候都是被政府部門被這一些有心人士刻意的發布到最後也是被破取那我們現在想請教您之前有提到是說南部有可能也會有設廠請教現在的進度跟規劃現在沒有具體只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3494.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3523.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
只是還在進程當中那當然確確的這個時程應該是由廠商來宣布是,但是您有提到說相信台積電跟流台灣嘛但也有提到南部會有二奈米廠應該會有應該會有我們當然不希望有什麼樣的變數啦大家都不希望有變數但這樣已經有提到嘛所以這個南部會是之前提過的縣市還是有其他的縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3525.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3536.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
在高雄所以預計什麼時程?已經進到建廠的階段了建廠階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3539.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3563.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
最後啦本席還是想要請教一下能源的議題啦我看到就是今天我們相關大家也都有顧慮到能源的議題那國科會這邊也有委員委員有包括說我們的童子賢董事長他也是我們現在國科會委員之一那最近童子賢董事長他有提過就說能源的議題他認為能源供應到轉型的時刻而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3565.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3579.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
過去他是反核但他現在認為說核能會是一個能夠協助淨零碳排也能夠加速綠能再生的一個過渡的一個階段的取代能源您自己怎麼看有沒有跟這個委員這邊有開過會 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3581.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3610.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
還沒有,目前還沒有那有沒有跟委員這邊有交換過意見我也是從媒體看到這個訊息我認為賴總統他已經宣示我們的施政一定要傾聽民意所以如果說我們的這個社會傾向在能源的發展能夠多元多元的去探討將來我們政府的施政當然還是會以民意為依歸所以沒有所謂的反核生主牌 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3611.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3612.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我認同反核的意見裡面對於民眾、對於社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3638.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3638.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
議員吳誠文 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3654.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3683.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
當然沒有一個人希望我們使用的能源是不安全的但現在包括說不管是火力發電風力發電太陽能發電或是核能發電其實每一項發電也都有它的優點跟缺點我一直強調能源是選擇選擇的部分在於是說你怎麼樣來就取捨因為大家都要用能源嘛所以不應該是汙名化任何一種能源再加上最近七大工業國也有發表聲明他們不再反對核能不再發表反核的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3684.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3685.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
國科會會以科學研究的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3699.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3720.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
來探討這個議題那我們也會兼顧在人文社會領域對這個議題的關注達到如果有全民的共識那我們當然政府就會依循全民的共識來執行什麼樣的全民共識是你認為的全民共識當然就是在貴院立法院能夠同意政府的施政方向所以如果說不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3722.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3731.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
本席這邊講現在我們有一些委員在提到是說我們要延長使用核能的部分所以立法院這邊沒有延長使用核能的議題我們這邊都不會推動是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3735.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3745.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
如果在民間討論的結果民意為基礎,我們當然會傾聽民意。我相信立法院是代表民意的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3755.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3775.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
之前啊,各位我說實在話啦,這這樣子就有點便宜心事啊,之前啊,一直講是說這個政府就是抱著反核的一個神主牌啊,尤其這是民進黨政府的神主牌啊,那只要這個立法院這邊有提到或說這個藍營這邊有提到是說要使用核能就把 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3776.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3799.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
摸黑徹役攻擊講說這個是危害那現在當然我是尊重您以一個專業的立場可是如果說什麼事情都是在推給立法院現在在做這個研議的時候又要講是說你看這是不是又要再傷害民眾甚至講到那種不實的言論講到說那這樣核廢料怎麼處理核廢料放你家好不好這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3801.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3823.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
刻意的扭曲的話術我覺得這都不是一個專業的話術所以其實還是拉過頭來最後我只請教你一個問題2050淨零碳排是現在政府目標方向也是立法院通過的氣候變遷因應法裡面立法的一個明確的一個目標2050淨零碳排能源配比有講到再生能源要佔幾% |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3829.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3838.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
當然這個目標現在是蠻困難的但是我們會努力那至於這個核能的議題本席現在在請教說再生能源要佔幾% |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3843.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3869.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
60到70%啦 來啦主委本席不是要跟你在這種蜘蛛壁教這種地方來考你我只是說再生能源之前提出來的方向2050精靈碳排以現在民進黨政府規劃是要60%到70%是要全再生能源那以現在的技術跟科技你認為可以做得到嗎不要再講說要努力大家都要努力啦你覺得能做到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3870.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3897.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
相當困難相當困難嘛所以我們要比較務實的來看待有什麼樣的能源是可以我還是強調能源是選擇火力發電是一種能源核能發電是一種能源再生能源是一種能源但是怎麼樣務實的滿足國人的需求滿足產業的需求能夠供電無虞又電價相對大家能夠負擔的情況下我們找出最好的能源配比我想這才是一個做科學的精神也才是一個務實的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3898.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3905.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
所以既然再生能源60到70%非常困難是不是應該真的要進入到能源轉型的轉型時刻我們會在國科會我們會請專家群來研討這個議題過去並沒有很未來有機會賴總統要 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3918.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3928.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
請教國科會專業意見的時候請一定要本於專業的提出正確的方向來讓總統跟上位者來做決策 可以嗎?同意 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝洪孟楷委員好 我們接下來請葛如君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3950.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3952.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
謝謝主席,有請吳誠文主委備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3964.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3969.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
主委好,我們都是科技人2019 2019年的時候我去參加ACM Mob研討會的時候就了解到災防簡訊是有可能也可以被駭客劫持並且偽造發送的我們這邊做一個情境我們收到了一個簡訊而且是總統級的警報 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3983.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3989.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
說這個北部沿海地區發生地震引發了海嘯預計著請大家趕快疏散然後英文說destructive force caused by typhoon in this area take shelter as soon as possible而且還連續發了兩則看起來煞有其事 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4001.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4025.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
如果駭客透過政府的平台發出了這個訊息給全國的民眾大家趕快移動結果發現並沒有海嘯一開始還有點猶豫到底是颱風還是海嘯主委覺得這樣的情況對民眾來說算不算一種犯罪算不算一種詐欺故意傳送錯誤訊息而且還透過國科會底下的災防告檢系統來散布政府該不該將這個駭客繩之以法 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4028.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4045.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
應該的應該的應該嗎?真的什麼不好意思我也覺得應該民眾散佈假訊息可能被查辦但今天如果散佈假訊息的是政府呢?政委是不是也覺得應該要主委同時也是政委是不是應該比照辦理主委還記不記得今年總統大選是哪一天我直接回答1月13號選舉前4天1月9號我們國家發生了一件很轟動的事主委記得是什麼嗎?1月9號我們其實有提示 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4057.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4064.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那個飛彈的信息3點16分1月9號國家級飛彈警報您對這個警報有印象嗎我是從媒體看到看起來您有沒有收到應該有2300人都有收到如果您手機沒收到你可能要檢查一下應該都要有否則就是你們的系統可能有點問題或者你主動關掉希望您打開因為您的身份現在很重要好不好我們希望您可以很安全好 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4083.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4110.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這個警報看起來很像真的還連發兩則英文寫的MISO當時的陳建仁院長說看錯了是衛星但他一開始說是飛彈我們現場在座有記者就是外國朋友許多的國人還有外國的單位都收到這個警報的時候都嚇壞了以為真的軍事攻擊好在後來國防部在一個小時以後也就是4點15分開了記者會澄清但是一個小時民眾已經可以從台北逃難搭高鐵到台中 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4112.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4138.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
但是災防細胞的這個簡訊廣播的系統在你們CBS的網站上有公告各部會的訊息範本這些範本有很大的重要性應該要照範本來我們才能知道哪些訊息是真的政府發出來而不是駭客發出來的那本席曾經詢問過國會說這個訊息我們是不是要查核有沒有符合範本你們說災防中心建立的廣播系統只是平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4138.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4157.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
你們沒有權力檢核各部會發出的訊息內容對嗎我們幫你看一下國防部到昨天5月22日為止的CBS網站訊息範本可以看到只有飛彈相關的範本沒有衛星但是國防部1月9號的警報首先發出了中文衛星的訊息明顯不是訊息範本內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4160.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4183.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
而且還連發兩次後來雖然英文改正為launch vehicle但是現在launch vehicle這個詞也還沒有更新到這個訊息上飛彈的訊息不夠而且衛星的內容也沒有launch vehicle也沒有更新再次凸顯依然不是訊息範本的內容國科會到底有沒有要來確認我先確認國科會的邏輯來說發出警報的單位是不是應該要負責確認發出警報訊息的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4193.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4219.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
信息的內容是由主責單位負責我們只是建立平台而已很好很好所以後續的更正是不是也是由發出警報的單位來處理CBS網站上的記錄這邊除了說改正後的訊息外備注國防部更正我想請教這裡的國防部更正是誰要求更正誰要求備注還是國科會自主發起還是國防部提出是國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4220.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4238.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
國防部提出嘛那請國科學簡單說明一下3點16分發出飛彈警報17分第二則到CBS網站上注記國防部更正4點50分中間這段時間發生了什麼事情誰聯繫災防中心破獲什麼方式聯絡歷史記錄在哪裡有沒有公務預算的記錄我請不然我們怎麼知道是不是駭客打電話去跟你們說我是國防部請你們更正啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4246.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4249.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這個細節是不是請我們在防中心主任回答委員好從3點16分以後到他更正的4點50分的左右我們有確認就是說發布的這個要更改的那一位國防部的承辦人還有國防部的窗口兩方面都確認好有訊息嗎有沒有公文 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4272.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4285.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
有,我們...雙方有沒有公文?雙方有email有來往好,我們未來後續來了解一下但是我們來看事情發生啦相關的後續因應的程序有沒有明確留下聯絡的資訊事後應該要做什麼樣的程序補正這個呢我們都接下來要來關注啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4289.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4318.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
但是我們現在再來繼續追問1月30日行政院發布了優化災防警報的系統然後是說什麼呢剛剛我們已經經歷了這個很驚險很緊張因為這個範本對比不起來結果行政院1月30日發文的是什麼呢可以更加彈性必要的時候可以手動輸入訊息也就是現在這個moment幾分鐘之後你可能會收到總統及警報說我愛Hello Kitty因為這是任何一個單位都可以發出 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4320.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4327.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
國會也不用檢查是嗎?照我們剛剛邏輯錄下來是這樣對嗎?政委您可以回答這個是政委的職責因為是行政院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4332.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4348.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我們會做資安檢查因為內容不是我們主責所以內容還是必須要有主責單位來修正這一點我是不是很理解但未來我們希望可以再多一點互動0109的事件曝落就是人工手動修改有高度的風險因為會有錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4350.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4353.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
但是行政院討論完的結論卻是再擴大彈性這樣合理嗎?我想透過這樣的烏龍到底是在發送芒果乾還是用國家為名再傳遞訊息給2300萬大眾而且時機又這麼的特別剛剛我們又看到了如果是一般人 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4369.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4387.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
通過這樣的訊息來發送這種錯假的訊息會被移送法辦您也同意但是現在呢我們民進黨政府發出來的訊息呢我們目前還不知道真相之間很多細節也都沒有公開而且這件事情發生以後相關的網站上甚至找不到我們本來收到的這一則訊息的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4388.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4389.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
獲得獲得獲得獲得 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4408.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4432.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
包括突發應變處理程序並且包含突發事件後相關公文的補正程序而且希望能夠溯及記網針對CPS網站上的災防訊息希望能夠有資料下載的專區你們的API檢索竟然只能回溯7天而不是全部應該要可以回溯全部而且應該要演繹未來要上鏈這是我們的歷史以上兩點能不能有機會在一個月內完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4433.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4453.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我們尊重委員的意見我們檢討修正一個月謝謝喔那我想這個這次還是很感動啦我們相關的部會呢真的是非常肯認責那第二個部分我想今天是AI你們是AI內閣我也一直被說是AI阿宅所以我一定要來關心一下這個科技領域關於AI的想法您對半導體AI也都非常了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4454.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4457.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
從今年開始行政院推動的晶片驅動台灣產業創新方案10年計劃就要開始預計要預入3000億的經費我再講一次3000億的經費多次詢問沒有人能夠好好的講清楚這10年3000億預算到底怎麼來要怎麼用 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4476.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4501.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
難道只是一個口號嗎?透過晶片與生成式AI的結合大家真的都很期待啦我認為如果有好的計劃花更多的錢都可以考慮但如果沒有計劃這些錢我們就應該好好檢討韓國維利今年度投入了218億台幣預期要讓各式各樣的AI功能在南韓成為日常那台灣呢我想請教一下主委我們的目標是什麼優勢是什麼主委你也是科技政委你覺得我們的願景是怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4503.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4527.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
AI是一個人類很重要的工具我們當然是希望說透過AI可以協助我們各行各業的發展這是我們重要的方向我想您也同意這樣的論點的話我下一個問題就很合理了主委怎麼看待AI的法治規範現在全球都在討論AI的法治框架還有我們的社會發展的框架吳振中主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4528.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4544.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
前主委兩個多月前說行政院今年年底會推出AI基本法草案您上任以後還是朝著這個方向規劃進行嗎?這個速度夠嗎?還是有沒有不同的想法?目前朝著原來的規劃方向在進行有沒有考慮更快一點? |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4546.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4562.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
好這個AI發展真的我看到一顆直球來了我接觸了主委我接觸了真的很感謝如果你有看我過去的質詢你可以理解到我們真的是非常憂心也非常希望台灣的AI要加速我都幫台德講話我都幫台灣LLM講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4566.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4568.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我們認為這些平台這些技術的訓練應用還有跨部會資料的開源是我上任以來持續高度關注的議題我想提醒一下主委我們有許多部會都有跟AI相關的政策您是政委所以我跟您說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4581.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4610.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
行政院有國家AI推動小組台灣有AI行動計畫2.0要走到3.0了行政院所屬機關有使用深層式AI的參考指引速發部有AI產品系統評測參考指引金管會也即將公告金融業運用AI的指引教育部也即將嚴定AI教學指引可能還有更多的單位相關的單位還會陸續推出更多AI相關的指引希望主委同時升為科技政委能夠更全面的瞭解各部會對於AI相關政策的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4611.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4625.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
拜託拜託統整性的來思考資源的分配政策的發展我們能不能軟硬兼施而不要只偏重硬我們可不可以棍子跟蘿蔔都要有而不是只有棍子盡量避免多頭馬車的狀況不要汙名化AI |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4627.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4656.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
不要去這種避鎖我們的資源讓我們的學生在跟AI對話的時候看到的都是對岸的用語這是我們要一起來努力的最後我還是非常期待主委帶領之下臺下也有我的老師老師好那我想我們一起透過產官學研界努力共同塑造臺灣成為全球半導體以及AI科技應用創新的領頭羊部長 主委我們那個好球來一發 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4657.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4667.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我們同意,那個委員的老師也同意。好,兩根好球,謝謝,謝謝主席,謝謝主委。謝謝,謝謝耿如君委員。好,主委請回。我們接下來請郭育晴委員。謝謝主席,有請主委。好,有請吳主委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4688.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4711.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
主委早安我想今天其實我們都聚焦在AI啦那我想人工智慧近年來其實是越來越成熟了那但是其實在使用上或者是在規範上其實還是需要有一些指引啦包含就是它的名詞的定義啦法律的名詞定義啦那隱私的部分啦還有就是使用的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4712.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4712.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4727.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4755.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
但是目前為止好像還沒有有一個比較具體的一個共識我想這個歐盟在今年的3月其實他們也通過了所謂的人工的智慧法另外在韓國的部分他們也有智慧資訊化的一個基本法在世界各國其實紛紛在就這個部分來開始立法的時候您覺得台灣應該要站在什麼樣的一個立場將來有可能在這個立法的草案的推動的進程大概是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4756.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4782.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我們的規劃小組現在當然也在參考歐盟已經公布的這個AI的法案那台灣的過去在制定相關的法案的時候其實非常注重我們經濟的發展但是現在身為一個已經比較進步的一個國家我覺得在保護人權的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4783.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4809.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
也要關注所以目前的討論我們會兩者兼具就是說對於人權對於隱私的保護以及產業的發展我們希望兩者可以相輔相成所以主委的意思是說我們要先有一個指引然後再比較統合一些意見跟共識然後再來做立法那今年年底有可能這個草案會出來嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4810.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4840.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4841.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4841.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
議員吳誠文列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4871.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4877.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
也希望能夠協助大學還有一些相關的產業的轉型然後AI化但是其實我們比較擔心的一個部分是當大家一窩蜂的把它設為所謂的熱門的相關的科系的時候反而會讓有一些包含人文或者是一些像商學院文學院的這個相關的科系變減少了我舉一個例子來講像是敏時科大他們後來其實當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4900.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4901.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4923.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4945.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4945.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4964.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我非常同意委員的看法其實我個人也是很關注這個議題我希望說利用台灣科技的優勢可以來協助傳統的甚至11住行、育樂各行各業都能夠善用AI的工具來協助他們轉型而且也可以留住人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4965.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4987.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
除了要流出人才其實這些科系還是有必要性的一個存在啦那只是說在這樣子的一個轉型的部分比方說我們剛剛看到一些像電視啦網路行銷啦或者是商務啦觀光英語啦或者是餐飲啦像類似這樣子或者是一般的所謂的文學院或商學院它怎麼樣跟AI這個部分來做結合或者是怎麼樣來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4989.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4989.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告業務概況． |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5010.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5011.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5036.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5059.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
其實我們比較擔心的是因為這個一窩蜂的AI啦反而會讓原本他們比方說我剛剛講的那些人文科系的一些學校因為招不到學生反而會停招這個也是將來有可能會碰到的面臨的一個問題這是真的就是活生生的會出現在這個教育界當中那這個部分可能我們也是要要再來再來做更進一步的一個研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5061.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5080.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
第三個問題其實我想要問到的是當然這個其實我們必須說也非常的肯定啦這個國科會對於所謂的這個女性朋友的一個福利啦那其實世界上有許多國家正在面臨所謂的這個性別比較比例不均的一個狀況啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5082.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5094.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
國科會2023年公布了111年度性別分析的報告投入所謂的科技產業的男女比例上其實還是3比1 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5096.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5096.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5111.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5123.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
就是讓女性能夠進入到高科技產業的一個職場那當然也要幫助她們比方說在育兒的一個部分那我們知道國科會其實在2021年的時候在職場互助教保服務中心這個部分其實也服務了蠻多就是在職的女性那她們的小朋友這兩歲到這個學齡前有這樣子的一個等於是招收在 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5139.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5139.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
請相關人員來回答這個問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5155.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5174.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
委員跟您報告一下就是我們國科會教保中心目前是收50個那是依照教育部國教署他訂了一些職域那按照我們的那個規定所以我們現在是50個是因為師生比的關係是訂50個因為最多其實本來應該是可以到60個對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5177.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5177.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
獲得獲得獲得 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5195.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5214.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
有在繼續調教但是我相信應該需求會更多啦因為我們知道其實在國科會不管是資策會啦公研院啦或者是國研院等等相關的這樣子的一個部門啦我是說應該需求的人其實應該會比較多那你們沒有想要再增設這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5215.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5216.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
議員吳誠文列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5238.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5254.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
獲得的資料是從40個變成48個因為這個數字也是教育部國教所核定給我們的那有沒有可能再往更多的部分來做努力就不管在空間或其他的部分這個部分我們會努力再跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5255.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5255.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5272.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5288.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5288.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5315.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
主委這邊我認同委員的看法再來演你我們會跟教育部來協調看有沒有機會我們來增加一些名額然後增加照顧的人員然後把那個師生筆的部分能夠再符合條件然後讓更多的女性朋友能夠安心的投入我們必須符合法規但是我看看有沒有這個機會有空間可以做好謝謝謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝謝謝郭育晴委員主委請回我們接下來請萬美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5324.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5325.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5334.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5362.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
委員長好主委好主委我想這個在這個賴總統的就職演說當中我們看到他特別提到要發展AI產業推動台灣成為AI之島那您先前在受訪當中本期有注意到您也說願意接任國科會主委這個位置是因為認同了賴總統的一個政見那您也說到人工智慧是未來台灣產業轉型社會跟教育發展的一個重要關鍵那可見您的心中是不是對於台灣AI發展已經有個明確的想法了 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5365.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5391.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我們的看法就是AI的技術本身的基礎研究會持續進行我們一直在資助同時AI的應用不能夠只去應用到科技的領域還要應用到其他各行各業當然所以主委我想要打造成為AI之島主委您應該要非常清楚要掌握目前台灣產業AI化的狀況現況您是必須要清楚的所以就您目前所知台灣目前產業AI化的程度是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5394.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5404.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
還有相當的距離跟什麼還有相當的距離跟在高科技上面的應用還是跟賴總統口中的AI指導還有相當的距離 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5406.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5425.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
是,這是我們努力的方式。也是嘛。好,那我想這個根據財團法人人工智慧科技基金會他所公布的一份資料我們看到2023台灣產業AI化大調查顯示在個人或者部門內使用生成式AI工具約有38.2%但是導入公司營運流程的只有16% |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5426.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5447.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
﹏﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5448.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5473.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
僅僅就在半導體先進製程上這個利基上面我們就說我們要來做AI指導了好像有點不切實際了所以呢陳柔宁今天的這個答詢除了硬體軟體的開發之外我們要導入企業或者是民眾生活上面的應用其實非常的重要那我相信您對於這個智慧教育啦智慧家電醫療或交通等等那應該都有一個藍圖在心中才有可能去成為這個AI指導這是您心中的想法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5475.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5478.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
您剛才說距離我們整個台灣產業要AI化的這個程度以及距離賴總統所謂的AI指導還有一個這個好像聽起來蠻遠的距離在那國科會您上任的你有沒有心理去打算要用多少的時間來規劃打造這個AI指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5499.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5517.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
AI其實在不同的產業的應用它有不同的難度那我們會循序漸進那您的循序漸進如果以短中長程來說的話不要問你太遠短程你的目標是什麼短程在未來4年內希望能夠改善特定的一些傳統產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5518.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5537.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
哪一些特定的傳統產業包含在IC設計領域跟我們的製造業的結合再來就是說在其他的服務業的部分我們特別重視的是國民健康所以在健康照護的領域我們也會先去推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5538.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5545.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
在上個月我們看到風傳媒在專訪我們臺大施工系的一個副教授那也指出來台灣的AI現在處於落後的階段這學者專家講的而且面臨了四個挑戰這四個挑戰我不曉得主委您知不知道那我在這裡跟您說一下第一個監管法規的一個制定這您一定知道第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5560.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5577.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我們缺乏完整的繁體中文資料庫這過去我想我們在委員會提過很多次再來呢我們只重硬體輕軟體的產業界的一個狀況這您一定也有掌握那麼第四個也就是說AI時代教育我們到底要怎麼因應那這四個問題你有去思考過嗎有思考過嗯 覺得哪一個問題最嚴重都嚴重都嚴重可解決嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5585.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5600.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
可以解決誰可以來解決我們全部的人都要一起努力都要一起努力是不是有把握嗎有把握很好第一天來備訓這麼有信心為你的信心我們真的覺得很振奮但是我想主委AI快速的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5600.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5622.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5622.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5639.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5640.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5665.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
但是它的內容其實對AI是採用高度嚴格的監管然後依照風險的劃分也有高額的罰款甚至禁用的規定都在裡面看起來就是整部是比較嚴厲的之前吳政中主委有說他說他自己講說台灣他說不會去走歐盟的路他會朝向日本、美國、英國的方向去走早上我也聽到您在說您會延續吳政中部長的做法是這樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5670.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5673.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我們會兩者兼顧,就是說 哪兩者兼顧? |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5673.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5686.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
監管跟發展,兩個都要兼顧。我們要照顧到,我們要照顧到人權。 很厲害,這樣聽起來就是說又可以有這個歐盟很嚴格的監管,又可以有日本美國現在這個的方向去做,那如何做到兩者兼顧? |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5687.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5702.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我舉個簡單的例子啦因為AI是工具人類的工具就好像你去買一把菜刀這個菜刀就是做菜的用途你要把它控制在那個範圍不能拿它來做壞事啊所以一定是兩者要兼顧啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5703.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5709.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
各位,我想兩者兼顧這一句話說得非常好但絕對沒有你想得這麼簡單如果有這麼簡單其實就不會有歐盟採取某一項那可能日本、美國、英國又採取某一項那如何做到兩者兼顧其實我想我們拭目以待如果能夠兩者兼顧當然是最好啦不過我想國科會其實在去年9月就提出了這個AI基本法的草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5726.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5744.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
﹏﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5744.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5745.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我們希望10月能夠具體看到好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5761.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5790.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
最後我想本席在這邊提醒一下我想我們在AI的發展上面其實已經落後了所以AI專法的草案在研擬的時候除了您心中有已經思考到的面向之外對於現在在開發訓練本土AI模型我想對於AI要去收集還有學習這大量的資料尤其是凡文中文的資料的缺乏還有著作權相關的問題我希望我們在考慮保護人權產業發展之餘以上本席所提醒的希望主委也要能夠注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5791.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5806.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
另外再來關於我們也是一樣賴總統在就職演說當中也有提到要發展通訊低軌衛星然後帶領台灣要進軍全球的太空產業事實上過去幾年國科會編列了69.4億推動B5G低軌通訊衛星的計畫要自行研發兩顆低軌通訊衛星而當中的通訊籌載的製作研發是委由工研院進行兩顆製作 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5821.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5841.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
您知道嗎?我瞭解你瞭解很好那總經費8億多那當初去選擇我們國內自行研發而沒有向國外購買其實我們非常支持也肯定因為一方面我們可以增加這個關鍵技術的自主能力二方面我們可以帶動我們自己盆土衛星相關產業鏈的發展這一點主委認同嗎?認同認同很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5844.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5848.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我這個據本期了解原本這兩顆都是要由工研院來研發的通訊籌載其中一顆我們變成要向國外來做採購那上個月我還質詢我們這個林明聰前副主委的時候他回答說原本這兩顆 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5860.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5875.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
就是我們都是給工研院做然後去年年底要完成的工程體變成今年才能完成喔那原因是因為你聽喔原因是因為工研院積怨不足遇到技術瓶頸導致時程延誤所以改弦易撤然後來一顆向國外購買是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5878.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5900.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這個細節我還不知道我可以請太空中心主委來我跟你講完這正是上個月在這裡我們這個林明聰副主委回答的但是經過本席詳細去了解以後發現公研院根本就沒有遇到瓶頸也不是經驗不足做不出來而是他已經做好了這個工程體然後只是因為他要送到外國實驗室去測試跟驗證然後因為疫情的關係這外國的實驗室因為關閉後來疫情過了以後這個實驗室打開 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5907.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5932.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
但時間性打開以後案量太大所以大家在排隊因為這個排隊受測所以才延誤了所以根本不是國科會之前副主委在這裡所說的這樣那我想請教一下事實到底是什麼我們到底為什麼工研院做得好好的那我們講出一個根本不是事實的理由去誣陷工研院然後呢我們就把其中一顆向國外去購買原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5933.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5949.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
可不可以允許臺灣中心主任來回答?委員好,我是臺灣中心主任吳宗鑫我想這個我們原來的計畫是B5G是兩顆然後確定是第一顆是由委有公園發展這個通訊所在 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5951.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5975.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
然後照我們原來規劃是在2025第一顆要發射那個我只想請教一下啦你後來一顆改向國外來購買是因為工研院的這個經驗不足技術遇到瓶頸導致是很延誤是這樣嗎?他們現在的根據跟我們那個對不起喔我想您這邊說的話要負責任喔之前那個副主委已經不在了他已經不在這個位置上了一定不在這個位置上了所以您今天所說法我覺得要符合事實喔好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5978.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5984.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
因為他們現在只能就原來是2025、26然後第一顆我們是答應給他們做第二顆那時候沒有決定然後他們現在2025要發射那一顆現在已經確定延遲到2028根據他們跟我們的報告就是公務預算所以已經延遲會3年然後在因為我們除了這個我們發展上面衛星籌載的技術以外我們同時上去要提供國內的因為國內有非常大的IT網通產業在做地面的設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6007.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6023.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
要做end-to-end的測試所以我們為了不要讓這個整個騎乘延宕太久所以我們第二個是我們是希望可以引進好主委我想喔其實並沒有回答本席剛才所提出來的一個疑慮喔因為呢上一次林明聰副主委在這邊提的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6024.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6029.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
很清楚是因為工研院的經驗不足嘛然後呢他延宕但是呢得到的訊息其實不是這樣而是他們已經完成了工程體但是因為在授冊這個驗證的過程當中那這個在國外的實驗室去延誤了所以我想這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6042.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6061.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
一周之內必須給我一個真相如果這個真相不是像今天所回答的那我想今天國科會必須要負責任那我們當然希望說我們所有的計畫都能夠按照期程來做中間有了一些變化不是不能夠調整但是事實真相是什麼我們是覺得應該要說清楚講明白這個部分主委你認同嗎好我們一周之內給委員書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6069.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6071.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
最後一分鐘非常重要我想我們在海外成立的第一個基地海外基地在捷克在布拉格這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6084.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6084.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
﹝無言﹞ |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6114.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6114.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
獲得獎項 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6131.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6157.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
委員可以允許我請同仁科技...我想這樣因為今天我時間也到了雖然這個召委人很好沒有心理我時間但是我想這個部分是不是會後一樣一週內我請主委要來做說明因為您剛上任我就不太為難您但是呢我們第一個海外科技基地非常的重要我們這個過程要怎麼走那我們預計達到的目標要怎麼做那我希望主委了解以後到我辦公室來詳細說明好不好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6163.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6168.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
好,謝謝。謝謝萬美玲委員。主委請回。我們接下來請林倩琦委員。好,有請吳主委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6188.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6202.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
主委好,我們知道你才上任4天可是非常有效度的昨天我們就見了面那在見面的時候我們也聊了一下那當然你有一些行程所以同任也是很有效度的來安排這整個行程 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6203.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6218.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那因為昨天本席在這個昨天的質詢就現場碰到一些小狀況所以我今天的質詢不是針對您個人但是提醒您過去在國科會裡面有一些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6220.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6220.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
議員吳誠文列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6241.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6258.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
獲定近億元預算只為幾個月的臨時計劃。此部分可不可以請主委再做個瞭解因為在前三處的科技辦公室要求國研院提了一個113年台灣的可信任生存式AI語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6259.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6265.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
大語言模型精進與素養能力的推動計劃短期計劃早就安排審議會議為什麽要趕在上班日前將預算全部用完有什麽理由要這麽趕嗎?經議員補助不能留待您上任再決定嗎?所以是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6281.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6286.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我相信許多部會首長讓我們有耳目一新的感覺但是我想每一些單位可能都有一些東西需要你們做一個整理 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6309.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6336.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
今天一整天大家都在談AI就像您昨天講的我們國家的政策如果是對人民有益我們通通都支持但是今天也有很多人討論我們不能以AI為名去影響到跟跨越到很多的不應該的界限所以我想了解這個事情的來龍去脈這個流程到底出了什麼問題所以我想這個部分是不是待會大家再一起回答如果有時間的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6337.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6363.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
所以我這邊要求如果這個案子本身有一些問題在您的檢視下那應該要送到法務部檢查局還有調查局跟那個緣證署要一起來檢視這件事情我會了解一下是的那不知道是圖利的程度還是賭值好那第二個部分呢國研院這個科技中心感覺好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6364.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6365.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
公務委員會主管預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6387.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6388.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6410.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6434.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
推動中芯專案計劃我們一聽到什麼中芯專案計劃這都很容易讓人家聯想到一些某一些平台那這個平台裡面有太多的可能性所以這個部分這個計劃也請主委這邊瞭解那麼113年台灣可信任生成式的AI大員模型精進與素養能力這是我剛才講的都是很大的案子那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6435.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6454.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
在民生公共物聯網的數據應用及產業開展計畫和邁向智慧國家決策支援暨科技計畫推動諮詢這些感覺很像軟性的東西這兩個計畫裡面分包的情形有沒有如所規定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6456.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6481.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
一樣也是請主委檢視然後給我一個專案報告或者是主委到我辦公室來好好的我們再溝通一下當然昨天我們的共通性我相信這一次的內閣大概把所有的相關的委員的資料都讀得很好所以也都投其所好的來做相關的一個溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6482.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6496.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我想主委這邊也知道一些問題不是說只有在這個你的單位組織裡面所以我相信主委應該是有這個能力而且還有這樣子的一個公平性能夠去處理本席這邊所提出來的疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6500.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6514.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
學術倫理這幾年大家都在談有別的學術倫理在公部門的部分常常是公家的一些研究的成果會成為個人的發表 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6516.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6536.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
這個部分我想可以再更審慎地做一個檢討基本上也給學界樹立一個比較好的風範當然我們知道這個國研院也擔任了很多國科會的一個相關的連結支撐跟計畫的一些補助執行所以這個部分你們怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6538.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6552.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
獲得更好的分析．或是讓事情有效度但是也是要注意裡面這個整合的平台當中有沒有超乎你們的規範的好那第三大家常會講的就是出國旅費的一個編列那這邊有一個產業創新人才海外培訓計畫那我還是請主委去檢視有沒有沒有編列在計畫裡面的人但是一起跟著出去那 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6565.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6586.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
你們可以同問同答那補助跟執行單位有沒有把關因為其他的部會可能會出現一些可能不是內容性上的問題但是在發包出去的過程當中或者是執行的過程當中出現了一些不太嚴謹的行政作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6586.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6613.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
及行政執行,請主委這會比較細當然您管的是很多的大政策跟策略可是很多的細節裡面藏了魔鬼但是這中間的細節會讓整個計畫執行變得掉所以我們都期待您的大政策大方向能夠在一些細節上的處理更為精細所以能夠符合整個大方向的 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6613.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6640.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
推動所以這件事情本期也希望能夠了解整個的來龍去脈那知道國科會在這個部分的把關如何好那有一個部分就是我們研究單位比較相對比較專業但是我們也不希望有這個左手補助然後右手領錢的狀況所以呢您是不是也檢視一下110年的這個科技創新政策研議與資源促進計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6643.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6652.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
到112年的邁向智慧國家決策支援及科技計劃推動諮詢請您親自查詢掛名的人員裡面有沒有在國科會工作但是在其他單位領津貼的狀況以上有幾點 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6669.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6672.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
主委這邊檢視了那覺得有這個必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6674.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6703.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
檢察官、調查局、廉政署我希望來共同了解到底這是在什麼樣一個層次彈弧、圖利、賭值這個部分今天絕對不是針對主委但是您剛接了有一些讓外界感覺打假球的狀況我一直對研究的單位抱有很大的一個寄望我期待研究單位可以做我們的一個典範 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6704.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6724.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
但是這些細節在行政的處理上有的時候可能就會導引整個的計畫跟成果或者是推動的方向會失去了它的整體的動能是同意委員委員剛剛提到幾個包含大型計畫的核電還有我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6728.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6742.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
國研院科證中心在處理外包案還有學術倫理等等這幾個議題我們會再整理我了解一下然後再整理然後專門到委員辦公室跟您報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6744.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6767.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
謝謝主委在我的辦公室其實我們還可以繼續就昨天講的議題做進一步的討論以本席跟您的交流的結果我相信有很多的細節我們都知道它是導致最後成果很重要的環節所以我們希望您能夠好好的徹查這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6769.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6789.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
謝謝您剛到昨天也感謝這個會議院同仁讓我們有機會做一個交流那未來我們會就交流部分跟專業的一個討論那我們也希望透過您讓國科會的招牌再重新打亮好謝謝謝謝好那您也知道是原住民所以最後還是對您講一句謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6796.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6802.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
好,謝謝。謝謝林倩琦委員。來,主委請回。接下來請陳秀巴委員。謝謝主席。有請吳誠文主委。有請吳主委。委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6819.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6844.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
歡迎吳主委上任也期待吳主委帶領我們國家的科技發展能夠持續的領先在世界的前段班昨天呢國科會這邊有舉辦媒體見面會那主委有提到說一些未來的展望包括推動產業數位轉型淨零排放AI研發等等的這些應用那都是現在台灣科技發展的重中之重 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6845.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6847.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
今年科技預算編列1570億,明年國科會預計在科技預算要擴大編列到1800億但是國科會在科技佈局投入最多的部分是金狀台灣接近有60億第二個是太空科技的部分也有47億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6864.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6890.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
但是近年科技與AI的發展這個合起來只有十億億多請問主委重點布局的預算投入我們在接下來會不會調整例如主委您昨天提到的就是產業的數位轉型近年排放或是AI這個部分您都非常的關心還有就是像您關心的運動科技預算的部分會不會調整這個不到1%的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6895.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6923.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
報告委員近年科技其實現在我們有部分其實相當的這個能量是在中央研究院是在有關這個科技的研究的部分那產業的發展的部分其實不一定是在科技預算在我們的那個經濟部其實有相當的能量那我們是通力合作希望能夠朝這個目標前進但是如果民間的 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6923.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6928.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
所以說主管的意思是說對於這個預算的這個占比的調整還是會做一些相關的因應將來可以做一些調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6940.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6957.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
這邊其實要提醒國科會我們2050年進行排放在即目前的技術都還在基礎研究的階段還沒有辦法跟產業來互相運用所以說再加上說AI的發展是科技的趨勢但是畢竟我們的預算還是有限的 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6957.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6976.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
所以在整個的預算的占比的調整也希望國科會這邊要妥善的來做一個分布那這邊請教主委賴清德總統在5月20的時候宣示台灣將進入太空以及發展低軌衛星那國科會這邊也說會加速推動太空科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6977.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6987.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
包括低軌通訊衛星、入軌火箭、太空產業鏈以及人才的培育。國會從2019年開始推動為期10年的國家太空科技發展長程計劃總經費有250億元預計要發展共10枚的衛星到現在是執行的到第6年了這邊要請教主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6998.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7010.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
﹏﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7011.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7034.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
委員可以允許我們太空中心主任來回答報告委員我們大概衛星有三個大面向一個是光學的遙測一個是合成孔徑雷達一個是低軌道通訊衛星然後第一個大概光學就浮會8號大概明年明年大概就會第一顆上去的總共會有8顆是完全還是上去打上去打上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7035.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7058.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
發射到軌道明年就會發射是明年就可以發射對然後是每一年至少會一顆所以我們預定到2031把8顆全部打上去然後在2728的時候是合成孔徑雷達合成孔徑雷達就是它可以穿透雲層半夜可以拍的那種衛星然後低軌道通訊衛星還是現在逐步在建置當中以上那我們的發射場址的選址的進度呢報告委員那個發射場址是 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7064.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7091.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
二階二省的三階三省的方式現在進入第二個階段所以我們現在跟各個地方政府像花蓮像台東像屏東這個縣政府昨天才到台東縣政府跟他們副縣長來說明然後我們的相關長職我們自己預計的時程呢預計在三階段是到年底的時候今年年底今年年底那選址如果確認了之後呢我們建制的作業大概要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7091.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7115.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們建置的作業那就是工電計劃要預算我們大概是兩到三年的時間要建置這個場域將它設置完成因為我們今年已經是計劃執行的第六年了所以在後續我們的時間其實也非常的緊迫在這個部分也希望說你們加快你們的腳步該去進行的該去做溝通的還是我們該去推動的這個部分也希望說你們這邊可以盡快的來完成這個進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7118.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7136.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那再請教喔在火箭的研發方面呢去年逢甲大學有成功發射了單節混合式的小型的科研火箭那請問今年我們有沒有火箭試射的計畫喔逢甲大學理論上今年要發射今年對我想逢甲大學淡江大學他們大概今年都會 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7137.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7161.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
都會發生都有這樣的計畫那請問關於入軌火箭的計畫目前執行的進度是什麼樣因為是去年才啟動現在很多持續在進行進行一些引擎測試還有相關的東西的建置大概我們預定是2028開始會做次軌道的飛試希望在2030年可以大概一支到兩支的入軌火箭的展示以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7162.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7187.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
好謝謝你的回答其實國科會在太空科技投入預算是在重點布局的第二高民眾也都非常關心我們國家在太空科技的技術的發展所以這邊本席希望說國科會跟太空中心要落實社會溝通我們定期的公布相關計劃的進度半年或是三個月我們就是定期的來公布讓民眾很關心的民眾可以了解說相關的資訊這個部分請國科會這邊來努力好謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7190.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7200.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
接下來要請教主委關於AI的應用因應我們世界AI技術的趨勢國科會這邊也啟動TIDE計劃要堅持可以應用在繁體中文適合台灣使用的生成式AI那今日國科會也公布了就是TIDE經過一年的訓練是可以用台語跟英語來對話甚至還可以快速生成立委諮詢稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7216.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7222.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
本席就按電腦規格試用了兩個版本的TED跟CHATGTP來做比較有發現一些問題首先我們看頭影片這個是像CHATGTP的提問2024年5月20日之後台灣總統是誰他的回答是賴清德總統大概有回答出去年選舉的狀況還有賴總統的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7238.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7248.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
只是呢在語句上不是很通順因為在確GDP它的語言模型在我們使用的時候是需要轉譯的所以說它轉譯出來的這個文句不通順的話我們是沒有辦法直接使用可能還在調整過那這也是我們國科會為什麼要發展Tide的原因我們要建置自己使用的這個AI那接下來就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7257.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7271.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我這邊向泰德提問的版本第一個部分我們先找科普頻道上面推薦的一個版本來使用同樣的問題同樣的問法泰德回答的是說目前所掌握到的資訊是2023年9月所以只能告訴本席蔡英文的總統任期到2024年5月那2023年9月以後發生的事情呢要自行去找最新的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7280.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7284.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
也就是說這個版本的態度在沒有辦法回答2023年9月以後的事情那第二個版本是本席向國科會這邊詢問說可以生成立委執行稿的這個版本但是主委你也看到這個版本的回覆比剛剛的有更大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7297.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7323.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
因為他回答說2024年5月20日以後的台灣總統是現任總統蔡英文這是非常大的錯誤喔那本席接著問他說那最新一次你們更新資料庫的時間呢他沒有辦法回答說具體的時間但是他有說啦他有回答涵蓋截至2021年9月為止的廣泛主題就是說在這之後的事情他是沒有辦法回答的也沒辦法問如果你覺得泰德這樣的表現你是滿意的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7330.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7338.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
報告委員因為這個態度是人工智慧人工智慧絕對不可能有委員的智慧所以他只是一個工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7340.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7355.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
其實這樣子的一個這個能工智慧說是這個AI的這個應用是你給他越多資料你越使用他他會越正確所以表示說你們資料沒有更新從2023年9月到現在超過半年了你們沒有資訊更新進去他當然就沒有辦法給正確的答案是我們會檢討我們會改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7359.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7362.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
提供的都沒有所以這個資料庫你們有沒有制定一個定期的更新的目標目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7380.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7399.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
報告委員我們這個TED其實它不是一個通用型的對話引擎我們那時候在公布的時候我們是這個TED發展是五大目標寫文章寫信摘要英翻中跟中翻英它最主要用途目前公布的是五大用途這樣子那未來我們怎麼樣來會參考委員的意見怎麼樣來精進這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7401.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7421.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
﹏︎ |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7421.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7433.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我們就要把它做到好做到完備而且陸陸續續該去更新的因為AI的發展是未來的趨勢所以說既然我們已經有建制的民眾也都知道了也會像我一樣去試試看了你們給他這樣的訊息這樣的使用的體驗我覺得民眾會非常的失望我覺得你們剛剛那樣子解釋我其實我不能接受報告委員我也有點失望我們一定要改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7443.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7467.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
好那主委您承諾了這個部分的你們盡快的來做就是相關資料的更新我們要越多的資料更新進去給他越多越龐大的訊息他才能提供正確的資訊給這個使用者那因為我時間也到了其實後面還蠻多要問的那我在你們有時間的話我請你盡快排到我辦公室我們來討論後續的這些謝謝主委謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7473.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7483.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
謝謝陳秀寶委員主委請回那我們等一下在吳佩奕委員質詢完我們休息五分鐘那我們現在請張雅玲委員有請主委但宣科完沒關係有請主委請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7503.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7525.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
主委,還要再喝一口嗎?沒關係沒關係,真的可以有點時間,還需要嗎?好好好,那我們就繼續,就是說首先非常恭喜這個主委就任,您的經歷非常的豐富,也備受肯定在清大跟成大服務的期間,大家都是戰略有價。當然所以我們對你的期待也是非常非常深,希望可以為我國的科學跟學術發展帶來一個嶄新的氣象。 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7527.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7550.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
首先我想要請教主委的是說未來是AI的世代新的內閣也不停的提到說像是左院長也有說主行中內閣賴總統就職演說你有提到現在的台灣掌握半導體先進製程技術站在AI革命的中心是全球民主供應鏈的關鍵也影響世界的經濟發展以及人類的幸福 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7553.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7573.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
昨天主委在受訪的時候也有提到說AI導入全產業除了學界開發技術之外關鍵在於應用落地那陳秉宇副主委就是AI的專家那因為其實像我自己從2022年CheckGPT剛上線的時候我就開始使用我自己是非常的樂中的在使用這個CheckGPT |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7574.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7590.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那包括像最近的這個Copilot啦或是我之前也常常用這個Gamma去做的簡報那但是呢我就丟了這個問題為了checkGPT就是說欸AI可以做什麼那它會帶來危害又是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7591.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7618.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那AI告訴：這ChairGP告訴我說他可以做很多事情他可以做自然的語言學習還有學習機器的學習和深度學習數據的分析和運測等等非常非常多我想大家對他現在應用已經非常熟悉了但是他也告訴我他可以帶來的危害可能是失業職業的轉變隱私問題甚至安全威脅二一使用AI技術可能導致的問題包含了駭客攻擊假新聞虛假信息和網路攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7619.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7642.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
所以就是說AI可能會帶來好處也有壞處所以AI要發展但也需要控管像例如剛剛我問了這些AI可以做什麼它就可以有得到我們有很多不同的一些好處的回答那例如我們現在也知道說這個其實已經應用在許多的教學場域包含剛剛大家也都有提到這個台語學習的機器人 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7643.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7665.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
但是如果錯誤的使用AI有可能會有負面的問題有譬如說可能會造成詐騙更難的防範或是這個包括它直接像偽造影像啊偽造聲音等等的所以我想請教主委就是說你對於AI可能帶來的影響你的看法是什麼那我們是樂觀呢那還是持平還是我們需要擔憂什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7667.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7687.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我們其實同意委員的看法就是他是一個非常重要非常有用的工具但是這個工具可以做好的事情也可以做壞的事情所以一定要有所規範所以我們現在在制定AIG本法的時候我們會兩者兼顧也就是說在保障人權維護我們的安全的狀態之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7692.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7692.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
解凍案8案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7722.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7739.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
我國先是參考了因每日的做法先有指引才去立法那目前也都已經有做這個今年年主委副主委昨天也有說基本法會在今年底就會出爐了那所以我想確認一下這個時程上面是還是在今年底呢還是你們預計規劃我們再把這時程往前提 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7742.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7767.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
翻台也有幾位委員也關心這個事情那我們會努力的來提前希望在10月底可以送到行政院10月底齁那這邊我想要插一個題目就是我剛好聽到秀寶委員在網講那個台德GPT這件事情那我也想要再請教一下主委就是說你認為台德的中文版跟切爾GPT因為現在大家都在做中文版喔我們台德的競爭優勢到底在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7771.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7795.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
這個好問題當然我們訓練的這個資料很重要但是即使我們建了這個平台它本身是一個平台我們當然鼓勵各行各業來應用它但是應用的時候其實在應用的範圍裡面的資料也很重要需要是一個把它客製化就像人在學習一樣人可以學習不同的專長你要讓他全能很快 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7795.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7819.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我了解我了解但是我只是很好奇也就是說我們做的台德GPT這個台德的版本跟CHAT GPT跟這麼多的到底競爭力在哪裡我覺得這是非常重要因為我們如果還要持續投資這件事情上我們的獨特性跟差異性這就非常重要像我們在半導體的製程上也許醫學或是等等的領域可能還是我們應該要發展的重點那這個部分我想我們可以會後再繼續的跟邀請主委來繼續討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7820.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7820.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
獲得獎項 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7839.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7840.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
獲得獲得獲得獲得 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7870.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7872.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
議員可不可以允許我請國防中心主任 可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7899.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7925.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
報告委員今年16這只是第一期先期的建制明年會投入另外40億會建一個大概120配搭符號所以今年是完成16還是在今年底的時候完成今年年底的時候年底16然後明年是今年會有一個對會大概120左右100到120左右100到120對那總共5年的期程希望能建到200到300配搭符號之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7925.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7946.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
但是我想要因為這個的部分因為其實日本跟韓國都已經達到非常非常高的一個算力了那我們現在這樣子的速度是不是有點太慢了我們是不是要再來檢討一下因為這真的是攸關到像賴總統一直非常強調這件事情引導了整個國家的發展所以這件事情我希望主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7947.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7975.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
一定要來看看我們是不是可以怎麼樣再加強部署如果有經費不足的地方盡量的去爭取這個預算一定要去持續的支持超級電腦的開發謝謝謝謝委員好那在下一題就是說我想要請教一下有關於一個延續性的政策問題就是太空中心那因為太空計畫也是在這一次賴總統的在就職演說也有講到我們這個是我們非常重中之重的一個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7977.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7997.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那太空中心在2005年成立的時候呢當時是設立這個國家實驗研究院在2022年的時候三讀通過這個國家太空中心設置條例所以現在已經變成一個行政法人那依照我們現在中心的規劃呢2023年是要招募300人擴充人力到600人的規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7999.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8027.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
預估希望可以在2025年達到600人但是我想問因為現在行政院其實已經核定了第三期國家太空科技的發展長程計畫主要投入了經費有251億元要發展高解析度光學遙測衛星超高解析度光學衛星以及合成孔徑雷達衛星組成完整的衛星星系來守護台灣保障國人的生命安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8028.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8056.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
然後在去年的時候蔡總統參加國際太空年會的時候又再加碼了這400億那我想問國主委就是說預算增加了任務增加了牽扯到第三期的太空計畫修正但是目前我想了解的是目前的修正計畫到了哪邊然後呢任務增加這些人是不是也需要增加呢那這部分規劃又是什麼是那我請太空中心主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8058.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8084.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
謝謝委員,跟委員報告一下這個第三期的太空的修正期我們現在正在緊密的討論當中我們希望是今年可以投到今年大概是什麼時候呢?因為這個好像也蠻長一段時間的去年10月到現在都已經加碼要那現在來講的話就是在裡面內容細節的一些嚴明那大概是今年年底的時候呢我們希望能夠提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8084.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8109.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
今年年底提出來是嗎那我們目前人數上面招募的工作人力我們真的招募是預定到2028的時候有670個根據我們原來這樣的擴展的計畫今年是應該107明年大概是我印象是五十幾個不是八十個我們是逐步這樣增加所以我們在增加人數的計畫是根據我們想要做的擴展計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8110.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8124.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
對可是因為我但是主任報告師想請教一下喔報告師再給我一點時間齁讓我問完這一題就是說因為我們其實原本的計畫齁但是我們加碼超過400億了欸那我們的人數還是在跟之前的600人的規模是不是那這些錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8126.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8147.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
計劃的人力在哪裡?其實原來是有一個太空三期250億但是在2021開始就有一個比較搭檔像B5G低軌道通訊衛星但是它沒有掛在裡面其實那時候已經有政策預算一直在進行所以我們有根據這一個兩個加總期的人數的鋪排就是你聽到了670個就是這樣所以那次已經250億加410億之後你的編制就是671嗎?基本上是往這個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8153.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8155.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
主委請回接下來請吳佩奕委員謝謝主席我請博客會吳承文主委好有請吳主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8183.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8199.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
主委好首先要歡迎主委來到國科會加入我們行政院團隊的議員那因為我也是清大的校友那我看了一下我2013年從清大社研所畢業然後後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8200.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8204.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
主委你當時就2014年來擔任副校長所以首先歡迎你但是人在公門也好修行啦所以這一屆的這個行政的團隊我想是有很大的使命因為我們賴清德總統其實在就職的時候也告訴大家未來我們有五大六大的產業台灣其實正在一個轉型的這個轉捩點我們正在要去步入國際的舞台 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8225.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8226.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8255.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8259.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
是已經有在跟經濟部討論海灣科學園區的計劃嗎?它目前是一個已經討論好的計劃還是一個初步的構想?初步的構想所以是我們經濟部主動來跟國科會討論還是我們國科會提出來的? |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8273.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8280.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我跟郭部長見面的時候有聊到這個議題所以目前還沒有開始規劃還沒有開始規劃但是我們已經有一些構想那這個海外科學園區的構想主要我們是希望要達成什麼樣的目標每個政策都要有目標目標是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8294.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8320.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我們的目標包含協助我們的產業的發展要擴散到國際因為台灣現在本身有一些資源已經不足的狀況包含人力的資源包含土地包含這個水電等等這些資源不足的狀況之下我們的產業要再發展能夠影響國際不能夠把所有的製造都放在台灣所以我們往國際發展但往國際發展當然要搭配我們的外交 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8322.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8344.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
到這個友善的國家也能夠協助友善國家他們當地的發展同時也彌補我們的資源不足讓雙方各盟齊力在這種狀況之下我們是很認同對台灣也好對整個賴總統提到的協助全球和平繁榮穩定的這個任務台灣也可以扮演這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8344.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8347.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
對這個目標我也很認同但是主委你知道一件事情他很可能被詮釋成不同的觀點例如說我們產業的海外擴散換一個說法也有人可能會說這叫做產業的外移 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8360.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8379.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
所以我看你在報道裡面你有提到說有幾個要件一定要達成第一個是必須要達到互惠互利然後必須要有誘因再來必須要符合國家利益所以我還是想要請教我們由政府的力量來設置海外科學園區協助台灣的產業到海外擴散對我們來說我們什麼樣叫做互惠互利 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8386.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8401.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我們其實是在因應我們本身產業的需求的狀況之下才會去做對我們台灣我們本地的產業要有利對我們本地產業有利那我們必須要擴展我們的市場擴展我們的製造基地 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8402.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8411.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
這是我們自己產業的需求但是在我們的資源不足的狀況之下國內資源已經產業發展到這個程度我想國內一定都支持我們台灣本地產業的提升但是產業的利益如何來分享到成為國民的利益也就是主委你說的嘛國家利益這一點我希望你們先初步的構想我相信相關都有在討論當中未來我們這個計畫整體來說我覺得非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8431.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8450.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
從計劃的擬定到計劃的溝通我相信這一個海外的科學園區倘若是對我們台灣來說我們跟其他國家也可以達到互惠互利甚至未來經濟部外交部通通都要一起加入這個會是我們需要好好的跟社會來提出說明的有沒有預計在什麼時間我們要來提出這樣的計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8454.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8482.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
如果明年的預算應該都已經報編了所以明年都報了沒有錯所以預計是在什麼時候我們這個會搭配民間的發展所以將來的這個投資不會全部是政府一定是民間會搭配進來至於園區是當地的政府一定要搭配所以我希望用我們自己國家最少的資源能夠達成最高的這個效益那這個詳細的這個做法等我跟這個郭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8482.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8483.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8507.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8517.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
中心的董事長所以我還是先必須問你一個行政上面的問題我們運科中心的董事長你辭了沒有啊已經辭了送出辭呈了董事會開了沒有我不知道他們開了已經辭了啦我已經辭了已經好這一個是要處理得清楚那因為我在我的選區在台北市的中正萬華我們萬華有一支也是世界知名的球隊東原國小的少棒隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8535.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8542.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我長期就跟我們在地的家長也在推廣全國的燒棒錦標賽所以我可以看見像我們的賴總教練他已經三十幾年的教練非常努力的投入在我們基層的選手的培訓因為我們國科會今天的報告當中也有運科 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8553.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8574.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我想這非常重要我們這個計畫已經來到第二期了嘛擴大運科研究量的這個計畫是我們國科會經濟部教育部衛福部跟速發部五個部會一起來合作的我們現在進入到第二期主要目標是什麼因為我看到你們說還需要來做這個科學成果的轉譯跟推廣所謂的轉譯跟推廣是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8577.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8599.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我們除了在學界去鼓勵教授去做運動科技不是只有科學的研究科技也就是說結合科技的產業將來能夠提出來很多的方法、工具、系統甚至器材能夠協助我們的運動水準提升所以委員提到的這個哨棒我們其實在軍機部也有計畫在協助這個哨棒 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8602.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8602.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
獲得公務預算。 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8610.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8612.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我們目前已經有相當多的研究成果所以你們提到轉移我就覺得特別重要因為在今天的報告裡我們看到你們執行的成果有我們的杭州亞運游泳銀牌選手王冠宏拳擊手選手陳彥琴這國人都非常熟悉但這都已經是世界級的頂尖選手所以我想如何把我們政府國家投入資源研究的成果能夠推廣到基層 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8638.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8648.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
能夠應用到國民體育我覺得也相當重要但目前我沒有看到比較具體的計畫跟規劃跟成果也許已經有在做所以我希望未來能夠提供相關的報告給我們那我給一個參考因為過去我在台北市擔任議員我們體育署有一個基層運動訓練站的計畫過去它都是在學校裡面各個學校裡面來設立運動站所以在既有學校裡面的資源以外我們另外投入了一個資源給在地基層的選手 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8667.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8678.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
但是我們也有一個條款是不一定要設在學校裡面例如說我一直在協助的霹靂舞它是一個新興運動我們也有選手正在要拼奧運的門票但是學校裡面還沒有霹靂舞校隊所以假設訓練站只在學校裡面那我們基層的選手永遠沒有辦法從基層開始訓練所以呢基層訓練站也可以由民間的團隊來成立這個我希望國科會能夠運用你們的專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8695.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8720.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
來跟我們其他像體育署、教育部等等相關的部會一起來合作。是同意。除了運科以外呢國科會研究成果的運用還有一個我覺得也很重要因為國科會的副主委同時也是我們文策院的當然董事所以呢在我們國家的文化政策推廣裡面國科會也是一個重要的角色例如我們講到的科技數位的運用比方說像我們國立歷史博物館就有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8724.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8729.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
相關的數位展覽的計畫那這個計畫有什麼重要性有很多的偏鄉學校的小朋友他們比較沒有那麼多的機會來故宮參觀來國立歷史博物館參觀所以倘若我們可以運用我們的科技把這些展覽的內容把它數位化也是達到一個文化的平權所以我們目前國科會還有沒有相關的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8750.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8755.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
推動國家文化記憶庫及數位博物館計畫那我特別就要提醒諸位因為我想你的專長比較是科技那還有運科也是您過去的專長那文化的科技也是非常的重要那我們看到這個推動國家文化記憶庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8779.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8780.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
議員吳佩儀委員主委請回那我們現在休息5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8821.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8822.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8857.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8860.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
公務委員會主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8874.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8888.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
公務委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8898.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8917.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
公務委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8927.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8931.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8955.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8977.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
公務委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8986.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8998.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9001.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9024.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
二、邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9031.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9038.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9097.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9103.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9114.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9114.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
好,我們會議繼續進行接下來請林益錦委員進行諮詢好,謝謝,謝謝主席有請吳主委好,請國發會吳誠文主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9141.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9142.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
國科會吳誠文主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9147.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9172.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
剛就職上任的賴清德總統在就職演說的時候他有提到說我們要進軍全球的太空產業那並從積極發展這個通訊相關的中低軌道衛星來開始那太空中心的吳宗信主任也有在近期受訪有進一步指出說希望台灣能發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9174.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9175.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9195.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9212.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
相信指日可待那國科會的業務報告裡頭有寫說我們會逐年來編列預算投入太空的相關計畫那到2031年加碼到400億以上那本席想了解說 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9214.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9234.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
到底要提出什麼時候要提出具體的這個工作計畫那工作計畫的內容方向又是什麼那是不是在下個會期審預算的時候我們就可以優先看到這個比較細部的工作計畫或者優先的工作計畫諸位 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9238.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9258.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
謝謝委員的確太空科技的發展對我們國家非常重要那我們要利用這樣的這個機會建立我們自己的產業太空科技跟這個產業那這個是對我們國防以及這個民間的發展都很重要所以我們未來經費會逐年增加那這個逐年增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9258.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9278.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
獲得金費的來源也是要基於我們對現有的優勢產業的發展能夠增加我們的這個經濟的實力獲得稅收提升我們的這個預算才有辦法支持太空科技的發展這個我們會同步進行那確確的這個第二期未來期程的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9279.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9296 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我會跟這個太空中心主任在討論因為我今天下午其實排定就要到太空中心去他們會跟我做業務報告我們會詳細來討論這個時程那所以下個會期審預算的時候就會看到這個太空優先的太空計畫嗎我們希望可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9299.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9313.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
另外就是說本席在去年11月我們審國科會預算的時候在像那個時候吳政中主委就提出說研議設置太空發展基金的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9314.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9340.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那去年國科會那當然主委那他也有那個說他可以來好好的這個研議那所以我們也要求說要6個月給他提出可行性研議的計畫那6個月到現在其實也到了所以請問主委有關這個太空發展基金的設置可行性研議的這個報告我們什麼時候可以收到 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9342.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9347.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
很抱歉我不知道有這件事是不是太空阿伯會比較清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9347.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9377.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
跟委員報告一下那現在太空中心的內部有在做這一方面的研議但是跟委員報告太空基金畢竟是基金它屬於特種基金特種基金它要符合我們相關的基金的法規那在行政院有這種規定所以一般來講的話還要經過行政院的同意之後這基金才有辦法設立對因為當初審預算的時候就要求說6個月要提書面報告那個時候主委也有答應 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9377.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9377.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9378.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9408.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9410.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9419.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
宇宙戰略基金因為我們要有這種宏大的想法發展這個太空產業就是要這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9422.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9425.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我們看到國科會最近幾個月陸續有去澳洲、法國進行交流跟簽署一些合作的協議展現我們跟外國進行科技交流的積極 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9449.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9463.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那我們太空中心吳主任也跟公研院有共同率團去美國那參加這個國際太空衛星展會有策展那增加這個台灣太空技術的國際能見度 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9465.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9488.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
那目前日前這個印度的智庫觀察家研究基金會有指出印度因與台灣提升太空領域的合作因為台灣展現出這個技術合作夥伴這個多元化的意願那想要請問主委就是說除了印度的智庫肯定 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9490.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9496.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
台灣也願意就是說說我們跟印度有所謂的太空技術交流可能以外我們還 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9498.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9519.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
可以跟哪些國家有這個太空技術交流的合作那在具體內容上例如說這個衛星的製造啊火箭的發射啊等等這些主委你怎麼看我們除了跟印度就印度現在說要跟我們有交流合作嘛那我們還可以跟哪些國家積極做一些太空的交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9521.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9542.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
因為太空科技其實牽涉到非常敏感的技術在各個國家應該都是屬於保護的一些科技的項目所以我們可以合作的國家因為台灣是起步當中所以可以合作的國家我們當然希望越多越好只要是對台灣友善的國家有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9543.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9543.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告業務概況． |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9562.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9568.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
南科今年一到二月的營業額已經超車足科已經有2700多億那想必南科三期的擴建會帶來更高產值並在半導體也好智慧機械精準健康還有新興科技這產業的引進之下會提升台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9586.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9588.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9609.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9629.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
應該沒有問題。我們南科管理局書籍長是非常能幹的。是。好。那就如期如止的完工了。OK。那就永續發展的部分我還是想請教一下說提升南科這個事業廢棄物的再利用率到底有什麼樣的方式? |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9630.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9654.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我看報告書是有要興建掩埋場那除了這個以外有沒有其他的對於失業廢棄物的處理方式我們在南科現在最重要的廠商就是台積電他的廠子在南科已經超過八成了他現在正在我們在南科的園區裡面正在建造零廢製造的這個設備邀請相關的這個廠商進駐 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9660.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9674.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
協助跟台積電一起協助在這個4月廢棄物的這個債利用率可以達到百分之百就是零費往這個目標再前進那目前我們三期擴建這個我們現在4月廢棄物的債利用率已經超過9成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9674.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9674.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
解凍案7案 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9690.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9711.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
最後想跟主委聊聊就是說在您跟昨天在跟國科會的媒體見面會中你充滿自信說要三個月內以產業數位化為內容要提出跨部會的這個方案剛剛也有很多委員在垂詢拼三個月有感的政績我想以你的專長是電機資訊工程我想當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9715.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9737.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
會致力於台灣的這個半導體跟AI的技術所以想請教我們數位治理跟AI的應用涉及那麼多的面向那在你的規劃中在你的腦袋中你想你會優先在這三個月提出哪些有感的這個政策我知道你說三個月後啦可是你是不是現在可以提供一些方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9737.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9758.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我們的目標是先協助我們台灣很重要的社會需求面很重要的這個產業的發展因為現在大家關注就是我們的高科技的產業發展很好但是怎麼樣利用我們高科技的優勢來協助其他的產業包含我在媒體前面也舉了一個例子就是我們的工具機的業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9764.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9779.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我們希望能夠逐漸轉成真正的智慧設備,智慧設備也協助其他的製造業可以同步的發展,那這個就是利用我們科技的實力,這個實力包含半導體很重要一定要進來,還有我們的資通訊,還有這個AI的技術都要進來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9782.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9797.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
這是一個我們立即有產業的需求也民間的需求我們會先去推動另外一個就是我們在健康台灣的願景之下我們在醫療照護健康大健康產業的發展也很需要我們的高科技產業來協助這兩個方向我們會先去規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9800.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9810.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
哇!非常好!因為其實我們的傳統產業其實還是我們台灣的基底啦!所以你如果能引用高科技數位AI這種高科技來協助傳統產業的升級讓傳統產業可以跟高科技這個無縫接軌我覺得這是一個非常好的不然未來高科技一直在發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9821.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9851.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9854.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9873.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
議員的見解非常好我們正好就是想要發展我們從這個醫療院所照顧傷病患者將來其實是要減低他的負擔希望能夠在居家不但可以做照護還可以做簡單的醫療這個就需要AI來協助那個把智慧化的這個醫療能夠推廣到居家到社區 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9874.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9875.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
謝謝林一金委員,請主委回座。 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9903.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9905.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
有請吳主委有請吳主委主委好我有看到你3月份在 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9928.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9950.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
自由共和國發表的頭文健康台灣在科技與人文的共融並進的文章可以看得出來主委是一個有人文思維的科學家我覺得我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9953.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9968.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
這幾年啊 有一點科技萬能啊 什麼事情都要找科技 什麼事情都AI 好像AI萬能然後所有事情包括我們政府都要AI政府 什麼事情只要掛上一個科技 好像事情就解決了 諸位你認可嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9971.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9997.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
認可科技萬人可以解決所有問題我不認可對不起嚇我一跳我是認可委員提出來的批評提出來的批評對所以可以看得出來因為科技需要整合那我看到這一篇文章也談健康台灣提出三個面向要有健康的國民健康的文化不僅是文化應該是政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9999.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10015.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
關於健康產業因為這三個面向才是邁向健康台灣的重要元素也要連結不同年齡層的國民這個議題用科技的實力來幫助台灣逐步達成目標我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10016.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10026.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
這一個事實上是跟我在推動的壯世代不某而合。這一個主委是大學校長過來。我們有大學制道。大學制道三個是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10035.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10041.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
這就是你剛才講的那三個目標在明明的就是健康的國民明明的就是明白做人的道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10055.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10074.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
明白現在國民,我們現在處境裡是特別是對一個高齡者他怎麼自我認知他是一個無用的人還是一個有貢獻的人這叫明明的在親民就是政府的角色政府不是在發展經濟不是在發展科技是在怎麼樣在親民 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10075.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10075.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
解凍案7案 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10095.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10117.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
這是國科會幫我們行政院打造的高齡產業高齡科技產業會議去年提出來的那個主委你看一下不要先看內容你看那個圖像想像的就是這兩個人偶是國科會所想像的高齡社會的樣態嗎?你認同嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10121.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10149.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
還可以再改善還可以再改善有改善空間啦好所有的就是安養晚年嘛安心舒適成就富足OK再看一下那現在的普惠科技現在談的大概就是什麼醫院、養老院、藥局、公園、樂齡宅、社區、文藝中心反正呢高齡者就是在這一些地方不是在要去醫院就是在醫院的路上然後科技就協助他們在這邊繞來繞去的時候更方便是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10150.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10178.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
不應該是這樣不應該是這樣但是現國科會的想像是不是這樣子好OK這個是以前的事情跟你無關但是呢OK就是講說我國科會是一個整合的單位整合最重要是策略嘛策略是什麼策略最重要是方向嘛方向搞錯了後面所弄的都白搞了啦是嗎這個同意認同好 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10180.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10184.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
跟著我講說我這個來立法院三四個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10186.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10214.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
你是新科主委我也是新科立委我們一起努力我也來在學習但是我非常驚訝到每一個部會台灣明年進入超高齡社會2025年接下來是以全世界最快的速度邁向人口老化少子化是像斷崖式的一種墜落但是我發現所有的部會都沒有警覺都沒有覺悟 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10215.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10218.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這兩個數字1970年我們台灣的年齡中位數這是國發會的資料19.3歲2011年年齡中位數52.4歲1970年65歲上的高齡者人口2.9% |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10237.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10260.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
2014年是30.1% 這什麼意思翻天覆地翻天覆地的改變但是呢我發現我們各部會有關高齡政策的制定都活在1970年用1970年這個金字塔的人口圖在想像我們的高齡政策說的部會對高齡的幾乎都是方會 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10262.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10290.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
幾乎所有的經費都是在衛福部80%的經費在衛福部各部會有的也是配合衛福部差花一下而已沒有在重視在這一個方向我期待這個國科會來接下來所以行政院提出的版本就會產生這個樣子我也問陳建仁院長他說院長這個是要給你用的你哪一些地方會讓你有需要他說通通都不需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10292.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10302.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
我說那你做這個東西給誰用啊?是啊,我們政府在做的,沒有了解這一個高齡這個世代,現在台灣60歲以上的,我們談壯世代是55歲以上,55歲以上現在台灣800萬人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10307.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10335.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
八百萬人竟然沒有政策沒有方向沒有產業所以整個未來年輕人也被壓垮了因為所有的財富在這些人在壯世代的手中三分之二財富在壯世代手中竟然沒有壯世代產業沒有這些人的產業全部的人要去賺年輕人的錢扭曲的社會扭曲的政策嘛再有什麼樣的科技有什麼用 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10336.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10351.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
方向都錯誤所以在這裡我們現在為什麼這樣因為大家都用引法族思維我要把它翻轉成為壯世代思維這以後有機會再跟族委好好的來請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10354.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10381.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
但是這個可以講的我們現在這個Maslow的這個人的需求我們現在都在生理系的安全需求這個最低層次啦就剛才這個朱偉祥健康台灣那三個層次完全都沒有啦完全沒有就是未來我們應該朝向這個層面你原來這個普惠的那一個都是低層次的最低層次的應該要努力的這種科技會讓人沒有距離讓人更幸福 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10383.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10397.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
所以這裡對整個國會在引導我們的產業引導我們關於高齡產業的想像空間那這個現在想像的空間太局限了啦就是高齡者只有800萬人只有養老養生養老養病啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10404.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10424.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
只要往這個方向事實上他是美好的第三人生台灣最大的動力最大的財富在這一塊所以呢在這一塊當中的國科會應該要落實高齡科技產業的全面市場的需求調查現在相相都把它想像只有那一個啦整個市場的缺乏 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10426.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10447.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
最後呢這個6月44號國科會要回覆本席在這裡對國科會提出的這個提案我跟萬美玲跟黃孟楷委員在這裡的提案也就國科會應該規劃高齡科技產業的市場需求調查我到現在沒有收到那第二條就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10449.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10470.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
就是精進高齡科技產業相關計畫及提出專者市場需求系統性的研究方案要在三個月之內來提到教育委員會這個6月14日到期因為你剛來所以我提醒一下因為現在還沒有交過來所以就拜託主委謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10476.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10480.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
好,謝謝吳淳澄委員。主委請回接下來請葉元之委員麻煩請主委,謝謝有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10502.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10518.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
主委好第一次見面但是我從媒體有看到一些關於你的報導個人非常的敬佩像今天有媒體報導說你說無意讓大陸科技持續落後然後也不會介入中美的禁足然後呼籲對方放棄敵意這是報紙報導應該是沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10521.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10547.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我覺得你非常好就是我們沒有意識形態完全站在產業跟科技但是我非常擔心你這樣發言在民進黨政府我不知道說能不能被接受因為我印象當中在2019年的時候民進黨的立委也在我們的委員會范雲女士她就曾經公開抹紅你就是說你在清大當時好像曾經有參加過一些兩岸交流的學術活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10547.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10562.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
就說你們清代已經已經被這個中共控制了然後當時我們有國民黨委員質詢蘇貞昌院長結果說怎麼可以這樣抹紅呢那結果蘇貞昌院長說沒有抹紅他就是紅然後甚至於講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10563.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10565.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10587.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10597.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
當時我是擔任清華大學副校長當時是馬英九總統任內鼓勵兩岸的交流2015年嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10600.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10625.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
2015﹚還是2015、2016嘛你們有兩件事情被罵啦一件事情是2015啦你去參加一個街牌啦就是一個清華的一個學術中心的街牌還有一個是2019年當時是清華大他們對岸的清華大學副校長來訪嘛所以清大校長去接待嘛然後就說清大被滲透了啦當時有沒有在學校看到很多匪諜有沒有舉報 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10628.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10644.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
這個跟我無關啦。我不知道有沒有。民進黨講有就有啊。黨說有就有啦。我當時當副校長是奉命接待啦。那時候校長令有其他的事情不在。那時候心路歷程是怎樣?就是被抹紅的心路歷程是怎樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10644.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10671.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
當然是非常委屈嘛我本人是一切是以台灣為優先我關心我們的社會關心我們的國家的發展所以我的生涯裡面所有的工作不管是在學術界還是在公務員服務擔任校長等等我從來就是不會以政治意識為考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10672.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10694.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
我會以國家本土的發展為優先的考量其實大家都是了但是有些人就很喜歡抹紅別人扣人家帽子那當時罵你最兇的是范雲女士也是我們教育文化委員會我是不知道她質詢過了沒還沒你有沒有什麼話要跟她講嗎說委員你誤會我了我是一生以台灣為優先不要動不動扣帽子你會這樣子跟她講嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10697.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10715.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
我想委員應該最後還是會明瞭我的心意啦我是為台灣他很難瞭解別人心意啊真的一個有色眼鏡戴酒的人啊很難瞭解別人心意啦很會吃自助餐啦女權自助餐就是要攻擊別人的時候就搬女權然後呢要袒護自己人的時候就看不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10716.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10739.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
所以當時你就是他攻擊的目標啦他很難看到啦我建議你還是要跟他講一下因為現在你的位置特別重要到時候不要國科會推動一些兩岸交流相關事務因為尤其是你在報紙上也講了嘛你說這個不會無意讓大陸科技持續落後啊然後不會介入中美進逐哦等一下可能又被罵了我認為你在第一時間要講清楚好不好我們都是為了台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10743.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10754.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
為台灣為台灣正常的交流不要抹紅對吧我尊照身為政府官我尊照賴總統的指示我們要建造一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10755.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10757.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10776.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10776.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
解凍案7案 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10792.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10817.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
因為大家當然延續兩岸的話題大家擔心說兩岸未來會不會有一些國安的問題開戰美國路透社有個報導說荷蘭的ASSML就是一個光刻機的廠商他說他可以跟我們台積電在遠端只要台灣遇到一些國安問題可以在遠端關閉台積電的一些設備這個不知道你有沒有看到這個新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10818.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10843.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
有 有看到新聞那 那 因為當時 這個新聞出來之後大家覺得說 欸 那麼厲害喔原來可以做到這樣的技術 那到時候 就算開戰好像台積電也不太容易就淪落到他人之手嘛那 所以大家很關注啦 那 因為 很多專家後來媒體報導之後出來就進口了 就不講了這個事情 我想請教一下主委你對這個事情的了解是怎樣 有可能在技術上做得到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10844.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10867.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
以現在在半導體產業的智慧製造的技術是可以做得到是可以做得到所以他們是有能力遠端關閉全球最先進的晶片製造設備EUV是不是 是可以的技術上是可以的那所以這個新聞就是沒有錯嘛你有證實有這樣的一個技術嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10870.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10896.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
到底國家科學會針對這方面的技術有任何的比如說鼓勵研發嗎或增加相關的能量有嗎這個本身是智慧製造的技術我們各行各業各種設備只要能夠連上網路就可以利用這個智慧製造的這種技術可以來監控遠方的設備包含停機這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10897.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10920.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
好,再來這是我個人接受的一個陳情因為主委剛上任其實這個議題我關心很久了上任主委本來在我執行的時候有答應我說要提出一個解決方案不過每次都是這樣在委員會講的官員的承諾到最後都沒有然後要求給報告給個報告就是講一些無關痛癢的背景從來不針對問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10922.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10943.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
所以我利用這個機會也跟主委再講一下希望說主委真的能夠解決這個問題這個問題是因為國科會有一個博士生的研究獎學金的試辦方案去年開始的那去年9月的時候開了一個記者會然後隨即隔一個月立刻就收件那就收件一個月的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10945.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10969.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
獎學金主要是要補助新入學的博士生大概是這樣但它裡面有幾個問題會發生第一個問題就是因為它是在一月多的時候就公布得到獎學金的名單九月收件、一個月收件、隔年一月公布導致於說很多是一月之後才決定要讀博士班的學生他是沒有辦法去申請這個獎學金的 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10971.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10997.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
他們就成為漏網之魚啦然後第二個是我覺得這個宣傳是完全不足因為當時我問了很多學校的學生跟學校的老師還有一些本來想要讀博士班的學生他們通通都不知道這個訊息所以我們就質疑說是不是只有巷子內的人才知道有這個東西宣傳不足收件時間又很短 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10998.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11017.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
只有跟國科會比較熟的人或者是跟國科會裡面官員比較熟的人才有可能得到這個訊息才能夠來申請這也是一個非常大的問題後來就在博士班裡面造成一個話題很多在學的博士班學生不能接受就認為說這個獎金到底在幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11019.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11039.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那很多人是已經一年級了嘛,已經一年級他就不能夠去申請這個補習班嘛,獎學金嘛,因為這個獎學金是針對還沒入學的。所以很多一年級的學生他變成說那他再去重新去先爭取到資格然後再去考一個博士班,然後想要取得這個獎學金的資格。 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11040.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11069.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我上次已經針對相關的問題有質詢過原來的國會主委那時候國會主委也覺得說這有點怪怪的說要提供一個解決方案那那個影片在網路上我也都有公開我也有把這影片傳給我們的民眾說我們會願意解決可是後來就沒有了就不了了之啊然後給的報告就是那種敷衍的啊那這個東西已經隔了兩個月了啊我們又得到一個答案我們對於我們的民眾也沒辦法交代啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11069.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11076.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那既然國會會要編這個預算為什麼不能把它做到好呢?我可以請我們科國處來?可以可以可以因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11079.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11099.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
報告啊那其實我們在辦理這個獎學金的時候我們其實有找各個大學的主要大學叫學員長或是國際長有來做個說明那我們也有發過新聞稿對你現在就是不夠我剛剛講的是11發生的問題你現在講的是說你做了什麼你做比如說你考試啊你考5分啊我現在跟你講說你沒有到100分結果你說有啊我對了數學一題 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11102.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11129.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那你還差95分嘛所以你不要告訴我這5分的事情我現在是告訴你說你沒有做到100分甚至80分都沒有到你要怎麼解決那我們今年你要怎麼解決因為已經講很久了解決方案解決方案是什麼針對已經發生的因為現在很多博士班一年級二年級的在學生他們也沒有辦法申請嘛那為什麼你只圖利一些就知道這訊息的人呢你為什麼不能夠擴大讓大多數人都可以得到這個獎學金呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11129.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11155.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那我們回去會再...不要回去了啦!又要回去,回去就沒有啦!欸!主委!主委!那個...我前面都對你很客氣我都...我對你都非常客氣那...可是我不喜歡人家呼嚨我但是我已經被國科會呼嚨了兩個月了已經呼嚨兩個月那以後大家也不是沒有見面的機會如果說國會以後來這邊備學的態度都是我在這邊反正我有時間限制嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11156.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11183.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
先騙一下或者是每次回答問題都從女娲補天開始講然後講到把我時間拖完然後剩下就說回去回去然後最後又沒有補那我覺得這種態度我沒辦法接受所以卓偉我現在就嚴厲的要求就是說我因為已經兩個月了什麼時候可以給我一個真正解決的方案下個禮拜下個禮拜卓偉你講的喔卓偉他那個卓偉講的卓偉他不理我 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11185.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11210.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
那你幫我跟主委講一下因為我們國民黨的國科會比較不理我們民進黨幫我講一下因為我在這邊質詢也是委員會的委員嘛好不好你跟委員會講一下說上次已經呼嚨一次了希望他們尊重我們教文委員會可以嗎?不會再呼嚨啦解決方案喔不是說給我一個說從米挖普天開始講這種東西喔考100分然後說我考了5分很棒了這種東西喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11211.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11221.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
我們只要補救就好了補救解決嘛上次問題你講很清楚了好不好大家維持一個互相尊重的良善的互動方式好嗎沒問題好謝謝好謝謝葉淵芝委員也請吳主委務必拿出解決的具體的方法速速速度快 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11236.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11246.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
好,我再來請羅廷瑋委員那我再宣告一下等陳佩玉委員諮詢完之後我們來處理臨時提案跟解凍案好謝謝主席有請吳主委好有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11257.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11284.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
委員好吳主委好恭喜上任歡迎加入我們教文的大家庭叫你吳主委感覺很親切因為上一個也是吳主委我今年年初才來立法院就職跟吳正宗主委相處時間比較短相信接下來時間我們有很長的一段時間會合作本期感到非常的期待為什麼開頭要聊到這個正宗主委因為今年3月的時候吳主委進行了業務報告兩個月後 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11285.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11309.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
您新上任也做了業務報告當然我們有共同關注到幾個重要的科學議題但是我想民眾會想更知道的一件事情是您接任國科會主委您跟吳政宗主委有什麼差別在業務上的執行上有什麼風格不同未來有什麼特別要處理的政策可不可以簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11310.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11336.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
我想我們過去非常注重經濟的發展因為經濟發展好的話我們才有足夠的能力來協助我們整個社會文化的提升所以我想在我的任內除了延續我們原來在科技產業很努力的做研發做產業的推動之外我們也會努力的來協助整個社會文化提升各行各業利用我們科技的優勢來協助他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11338.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11355.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
好,我們一起努力各行各業我希望不管是從上到下基層的很多行業也需要幫忙不要讓他們覺得國科會很遠不要讓他們不知道有國科會的存在本期想要向主委詢問一下精創方案回到我們施政的主軸上 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11356.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11368.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
這個方案目前加速推動了四大佈局也就是所謂推動深層式AI幫助百工百業強化國內培育環境吸納全球頂尖人才那你本身自己有在用深層式AI嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11371.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11393.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
坦白講我個人有用過但是還不是很滿意有用過是對生成式AI不是很滿意還是你使用的過程不是很滿意對生成式AI來講我們要知道他的能力然後他的限制是因為他使用了這個AI統計式的方法他是不可能達到100%準確你要的答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11395.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11421.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
但是你有研究我們所謂年輕人說的深圳市AI有所謂的這個魔咒咒語你會使用相關的咒語嗎我目前沒有所謂的咒語就是他的指令我想這個是要去了解深圳市AI可能需要掀起的一個先前目的那我想經濟部合作推動加速一直整合以及先進的技術開發最後就是要推動系導的一個實力我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11421.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11444.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我們更希望能夠在國內外新創的同時吸引投資來台這個計畫預計10年內要投資3000億今年第一年就投入120億之前國科會期許5年會有多家IC的新創國內誕生那我想半年過去的具體執行狀況如何有沒有進展我可以請我們負責同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11450.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11470.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
請說關於IC新創其實我們因為開始執行我們已經正式那個開始弄取一個那個全球公安的一個競賽的規劃那因為剛開始嘛所以我們在未來幾個月在年底之前會再跟委員報告整個的狀態因為已經半年了那所以就只是目前這樣子主委你覺得呢聽完他剛剛說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11476.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11480.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
聽起來就是好像有做事但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11497.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11526.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
主軸具體好像也看不出來是半年了大概做些什麼但沒關係我會關注一下這過程我相信有努力啦剛剛你講了很多的這個算是日程嗎或者是你們的一些會議OK但是我們希望的是半年了有沒有具體有沒有準備要做什麼那有沒有進展的一個具體方向讓我們能夠更確定的知道我想想問問主委在CHAP GPT剛問事的時候你有沒有試問過 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11527.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11550.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
剛剛有說有沒有什麼使用過對有啊有使用過那現在可以說是LAN一個世代為什麼這樣說因為目前國歌會的泰的模型聯發科有自己的模型台智雲有福爾摩沙大模型群創光電有白龍模型大家都致力於在打造繁體中文模組的一個AI模型那因為上個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11551.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11577.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
四月十五國科會才釋出了Tide 7B的模型說是結合台灣文化擁有七十億參數的大型語言模組我想緊接著呢Meta又釋出了自己的一個相關的模組國科會立馬又在四月二十九號又發表了Lama3 Alpha的一個模組模型 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11579.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11594.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
請問這個研發速度可以說是AI的軍備競賽感受到你們的積極度但我想詢問一下包括關你們的這個資料庫的來源目前可以提供說大概來源資料庫來源大概都來自哪一國嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11595.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11611.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我們資料庫的來源應該都是台灣的都是台灣自己是在台灣本土收集的所以70億全數都來自台灣我想我不敢說自己是專家我也不敢在你們面前說我多了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11612.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11637.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
但我想有自己去稍微了解一下我們目前發展的基礎以META開發的一個LM2的一個模組模型也就是我們現在使用試用開源的一個資料他在pressuring的過程中就已經有簡體資料的一個簡體中文的資料我們頂多可以給他看繁體資料但不能避免這個開源模型已經有簡體資料對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11640.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11665.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
這個可能會存在的對如果我們想要完全避免檢體資料進而開發一個全面的繁體資料應該會遇到兩個問題第一個問題就是本體的資料不足數據量遠遠不足我想跟全世界來比第二個更大的問題就是如果是只有繁體的資料就需要重新訓練是對吧是就本期 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11666.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11686.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
自己查的資料去了解重新訓練沒有幾萬片H100的GPU辦不到目前台灣國家隊大概只有72片遠遠低於國外的新創團隊與大企業請問要如何重新訓練我們正在努力在加速建置我們的運算的資源我剛說GPU數量有錯嗎那個國王我請國王中心主任來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11695.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11714.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
不好意思因為我看到您不是很肯定的我想說給你回答都沒關係我們可以互相的報告委員那個去年台德計劃展開的時候我們構置了72片的H100的GPU對嘛72片這是你剛剛提的但是我們台灣32號本來就有2000片的V100在國王掌控裡面有1000片 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11715.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11739.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
所以我剛說的重新訓練我們估計要幾萬片的一個GPU那目前我們只有72片如果我們只能基於還是有簡體資料的前提下多加入了繁體資料只能做到繁體中文的微調本席想了解那麼就這樣的基礎所開發的AI模型與OpenAI、ChapGPT也好Google的具體落差在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11740.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11748.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
目前繁體中文與所謂的簡體中文資料在訓練數據中比例各佔多少?是否具體的數據可以提供一下? |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11751.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11777.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
這個簡體跟繁體的比率其實沒有一個精確的統計但是Lama事出的時候他有提到他的中文的比率是多少那可以拿來做參考但是並不是說本來是簡體他就一定會你如果為很多的繁體中文他事實上說會改變他的參數繁體中文的表現會越來越好好所以我說剛剛以我們的AI模型跟OpenAI、ChapGPT、Google的具體落差在哪? |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11779.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11807.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
他們的模型是非常大的模型是從頭訓練起我們是fine tuning和continuous retraining所以當然是有他的差距在我想那聽出來我們的差距不是微幅是非常的巨大因為畢竟我們要跟國外相比我們也要看使用者到底未來想使用的他的具體希望得到的成效是什麼他當然會希望不管是語言模組或者是後續的資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11809.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11836.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
獲得大量資料支撐生成式AI或生成式的東西才可以加大它的生成式出來的資料是有確定性或者是穩定性甚至是我們說的準確性能夠提高這是一個使用者他希望能夠追求的那本席目前有看到國科會定調希望作為一個資助開源模型的資助產業例如工研院電光所可以運用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11837.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11845.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
結合相關的技術或是針對鋼鐵的產業知識提供智慧化的問答檢索詢問高爐或電弧爐的相關產業知識除了這些我們還計畫將泰的7B運用在哪些具體的產業上 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11855.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11869.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
委員報告吼,我們現在那個是對於產業的協助吼,其實我們是以那個公開釋出,那麼他們可以去來使用的吼,那目前表達興趣的像醫療體系他們有表達興趣來使用這個type這樣子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11870.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11893.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
我想就是公開大家各自使用啦是因為不同的專業要用不同的資格來訓練主委討論到這樣子我們不覺得很奇怪嗎國科會的會真的有具體了解到台灣產業的需求嗎我們到底要提供百工百業在生成式AI未來能夠使用上有什麼樣的具體幫助我認為發展本土化翻體中文LM |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11895.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11913.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
模型我們支持我們也不希望看到簡體中文但是在本土化的過程中到底我們的資料能不能期待他能夠有更多元能夠納到跟國外的相關的我們說的GPT OpenAI的資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11914.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11943.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
來做一個比擬我想台灣如果發展了一個只能搜尋少量英文、繁體中文、本土資訊的搜尋引擎這個其價值、商業價值我相信是比較低的為什麼?因為我認為還是要回歸到AI工具實不實用所以我想講白了OpenAI、ChapGVT如果沒有大量全球的知識去擴充只有台灣本土的知識主委你個人覺得它實用嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11944.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11962.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
通用型AI跟比較專業的AI是不一樣的這是訓練資料的差異所以我們在台灣我們要發展各行各業用的AI它的訓練資料就要用各行各業的資料那甚至是AI的好處就是說你的資料量不足但是廣度夠的話它可以產生非常多的訓練資料幫它做得很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11963.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
11990.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我想國科會應該要實事求是我們應該要去擴充發展自己的LLM的一個工具讓企業廣泛來使用本席具體的要求國科會研議企業LLM訓練方案台灣需要的不是那種很簡單的手續引擎我想台灣需要的是發展適合中小企業可以訓練LLM的一個簡易工具主委能夠答應我們來研議嗎我們會鼓勵學界努力做這個事情我們大家一起來努力好不好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
11993.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
11995.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
主委請問主委一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12021.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12036.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
剛剛國民黨葉元之委員在跟您質詢的時候他提了那五個字我實在是不想再念一次喔對於長年從事性別平等教育的我來說我不想再念剛剛葉元之委員講的那五個字我想主委應該也不想重複齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12037.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12058.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
但是我要強調從剛剛葉元芝的委員發言主委你認不認同性別平權教育不能再等待他應該也要是國科會從之前很多位主委一直流傳下來到未來應該也會是您非常重要的施政方向請您做回應是是你要不要再多說一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12059.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12084.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
同意同意同意好同意那我們就不要再講那五個字了啦我也希望所有的不管是哪一黨的委員自己的性別平權相關概念如果不足是不是應該要更加強應該加強這也是國科會不管是在做相關政策的推動或者是相關研究的關懷甚至是你們我們等一下會提到的科普列車我也期許主委您在相關的性別平權這件事情上絕對絕對要再持續好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12087.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12102.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
免得又發生像剛剛那樣的發言好 謝謝主委昨天您跟舊的主委交接了 前吳主委我很好奇他有沒有跟您說到什麼是他任內還來不及做完的他還有一些關懷跟熱情的希望您可以持續推動的他其實有很多的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12110.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12117.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
一、國際的拓展我們跟很多國家簽訂了雙邊的科技協議再來就是說我們在促進台灣的產業發展雖然國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12125.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12150.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
以這個學界的力量做研發的工作但是最後還是要落地到能夠協助產業發展這一部分他也很努力那我也希望能夠持續那這個產業的發展不但是我們的科技業我剛剛有提到我們將來也是想要協助比較傳統的產業也可以利用我們的科技的優勢來互相的這個合作能夠把我們的傳統產業也能夠把它拉升上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12150.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12155.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
好 謝謝主委您剛提到了現有的科技產業或是正在發展的科技產業還有傳統產業都希望有學界研究的力量加以支持我們當然也非常認同可是除此之外我也要拜託主委跟您分享 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12166.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12191.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
從我去年上任到現在我們一直在跟前主委談的事情就是關於對於台灣兒童跟青少年的研究其中我們一直標榜我們一直在意拜託國科會開啟相關兒少身心健康的研究我想要先給主委看一下這張報表15歲到24歲自殺死亡率近10年持續上升我想您身為科學家你看到這個數字就不用我再多說 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12192.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12219.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
這張數字、這張表格我想更清楚它告訴我們15歲到24歲自殺通報最多但更令人擔心害怕的是0到14歲持續上升之前在賴總統跟青少年座談當中其實也有很多小學生也提出來他們確實也因為功課壓力家庭或是社區文化或是整個網路環境的變遷確實有越來越多的孩子們感覺到自己身心健康而且是需要大人幫忙的 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12219.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12234.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
之前在跟國科會的討論當中國科會也告訴我們確實有很多專家學者表示對於數位時代青少年身心健康的狀態其實大家是不熟悉的那我們來看一下我們之前一直在跟國科會講 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12235.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12262.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
其實在國外已經有非常非常多的相關研究已經在開展甚至已經有很多研究成果在分享出來但是回到台灣本地對於台灣自己的社區議題家庭議題、教育議題其實跟國外非常多國家非常多的不同那我們有沒有機會在這個不同點上促使台灣更多專家學者願意在國科會的支持下投入相關研究不知道主委您聽到目前為止你有什麼看法不知道主委您認不認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12263.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12270.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
用國科會的力量來支持台灣的專家學者教授進行兒少身心健康的相關研究。 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12271.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12287.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
我認同希望能夠增加所以主委在您的認知底下我們到底還能夠做哪些事情在去年的10月18號我們拜託前主委在相關的研究可以開啟我們也非常感謝國科會確實當時也協同教育部還有衛福部開啟相關會議的討論可是看起來大家認為有跨部會的問題或者是如何取得這些學生資料的問題或者是一旦有很多研究他必須要進入校園當中他可能會有很多實務上的困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12301.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12328.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
所以我要再次強調這件事情在新主委您上任之後您剛剛也說你非常認同那您覺得在實際的做法上您可以怎麼樣鼓勵相關專案研究的開啟或者是一個更大的計畫來主動積極的邀請台灣不同領域但是跟身心健康有關跟認識兒少有關甚至是跟家庭教育學校學習環境有關共同開啟一個跨部會的研究或是跨科別的研究主委這邊可以簡單表示一下意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12331.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12335.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
據同仁跟我講我們已經在啟動了這是委員關心這個事情已經在啟動我會關注這個事我會持續來協助來連結我們其他的部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12345.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12347.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
接下來我們要談一下主委您自己的LINE裡面有沒有加入災防中心的這個社群? |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12362.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12377.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
你這樣微笑看就是沒有啦我跟你分享一下這個也是去年我們在跟國科會開會的時候國科會建議我說委員你可以加入我們就真的有加入囉然後在地震之後呢果然是很有幫助的齁那主委你知不知道我們這個災防中心的LINE帳號 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12378.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12403.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
他不僅可以闢謠,重點是他可以第一時間提供正確資訊。0403大地震的時候當天除了很多各地的災情回報之外,第一個我的手機所收到的謠言就是龜山島的那個頭啊,掉了。大家就很緊張瘋傳,但是呢當時就有正確資訊出來闢謠。那主委你知道嗎目前台灣有多少人加入這個災防中心的LINE帳號? |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12405.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12425.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
一百六十三萬有有你的同仁很近者一百六十三萬可是少你一個主委拜託要加入這樣那我們去年呢這個災防中心的LINE帳號發出了三億七千萬則訊息主委你眉毛抬了一下你很驚訝對不對這個數字而且這些訊息非常非常重要好我們來往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12428.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12429.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
我請主任來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12451.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12458.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
委員你好也就是4月22號啊他因為超過了一個月是超過了8000萬折對那現在我們跟那公司啊這個談妥了他要給我們吳上線也就是吃到飽啊那後續這個合作會持續下去嗎會持續下去好我們希望這個要持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12468.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12469.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
主委您是來自運客中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12489.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12489.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
您認同嗎?認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12507.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12521.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
你認為在運動科學是這樣那一般的科學或是更廣泛包含剛剛有非常多委員問到AI你覺得這些科學知識需不需要更花力氣更花很多的方法跟新時代的公民溝通是好 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12523.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12543.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
除了這個溝通之外您認為我們其實照國科會在過往在科普活動上你們做了列車然後也做了這個競效員的活動那甚至呢在去年吧今年新增了這所謂小孩的角度的視角Kids Science你們有人文沙龍有TTA Talk活動但是我們要再次提醒國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12544.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12564.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
其實在科學技術基本法入法之後相關會與所謂科學普及這件事情在立法說明裡面有一段我想要再次拜託國科會也許過往不在國科會的視野當中但是未來我希望國科會可以努力提升這件事情就是所有的科學技術研究發展預算的研究計畫制定的時候應納入科普推廣的考量要讓國人可以進一步了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12570.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12584.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
國內科研預算的使用成果提高一般民眾對於科學知識瞭解跟興趣還可以成為知識經濟產業升級的動力主委您怎麼看這件事情不管是知識的傳播或是知識經濟產業升級 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12587.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12606.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
或是你可以請你的幕僚回答好,我個人認為這是很正面的,我們應該做,是好需要我們,處長來好,謝謝能問出跟委員報告就是其實這個概念是非常正確的因為各行各業包括我們的所有的專業領域裡面最後其實這幾年已經真的在調整了 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12607.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12629.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
過去我們都認為說應該是作為專注在基礎研究但是我相信我們已經都開始在拍影片不只是科國處而已連各處都已經在做這些事情所以請委員放心好那這個部分我辦公室當然會持續的追蹤我時間到了好沒關係那就我準時把握時間那我要最後再一次拜託主委最後主席再給我30秒就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12631.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12653.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
這件事情很重要性別平權教育不能等相關的國科會推廣研究或是相關政策推進拜託主委在您的任內一定要持續關注這件事情當然我們剛剛說青少年身經營康科普推廣或是知識經濟產業升級這件事情也非常重要但我覺得這個基本公民常識也要拜託主委跟國科會拜託更多學者專家一起努力謝謝謝謝主席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12660.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12663.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝陳培宇委員主委請回那我們現在就先來處理解凍案7案請議事委員員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12671.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12690.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
國家科學及技術委員會行為103年度中央政府總預算決議解凍財團法人國家實驗研究院發展計劃預算凍結1000萬元書面報告警察詔案國家科學及技術委員會行為113年度中央政府總預算決議解凍財團法人國家同步輻射研究中心發展計劃預算凍結500萬元書面報告警察詔案 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12692.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12706.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
國家科學及技術委員會行為113年度中央政府總預算決議解凍非營業特種基金預算凍結2000萬元順便報告警察照案國家科學及技術委員會行為113年度中央政府總預算決議解凍資訊服務費預算凍結5%順便報告警察照案 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12711.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12733.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
國家科學及技術委員會含為103年度中央政府總預算決議解凍新竹科學園區管理局決議園區業務推展預算動機二十萬元數密報告警察詐案國家科學及技術委員會含為103年度中央政府總預算決議解凍中部科學園區管理局決議園區業務推展預算動機二十萬元數密報告警察詐案 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12733.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12745.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
國家科學及技術委員會行為113年度中央政府總預算決議解送南部科學園區管理局決議園區業務推展預算動機二十萬元數願包含警察詐案宣讀案 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12749.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12765.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
總共有7案喔那我們先來處理第一案第一案是國歌會的第4幕財團法人國家實驗與研究院發展計畫預算編列72億4500億3萬1千元凍結1000萬元那這個案子要解凍有沒有意見那如果沒有意見那我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12780.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12797.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
我們就準以動之提報院會第二案第二案是有關於第五幕國家同步輻射研究中心發展計劃的預算編列有21億3435萬3千元凍結500萬元這個案子有沒有其他的意見解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12807.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12813.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
好那如果沒有意見那我們就准予動之提報院會那第三案第三案是第6目非營業特種基金預算編列430億3187萬6千元凍結2000萬元有沒有委員有任何的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12833.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12862.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
好,我們請陳佩玉委員我先說啦,我們沒有人要堅持但是還是要再次提醒國科會關於科普列車的擴大辦理啊、特色車廂之前其實也有很多委員提醒過我記得已經委員有提醒過就是不是花很多錢在行銷上然後把那個列車畫得漂漂亮亮可是關於實質的內容或者是如何更把這個科普教育這件事情深入校園或者是做更多的社會溝通這件事情我覺得要請新的主委上任之後相關的政策必須要有一些調整跟改進 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12862.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12868.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
但是在預算的部分我們沒有堅持。謝謝。好,那主委要回應嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
12870.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
12895.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
謝謝委員我們會檢討改建好那這個案子我也有一些提醒跟意見就是有關於這個AI我想這個AI現在未來要大家一起是不可忽略的趨勢可是我覺得不只這個所謂的倫理的使用規範我們要來好好的這個研究處理法制面也應該要來做一些規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
12897.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
12922.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
關注AI的合理使用那我想這個也是很大的重點所以我想要敦請國科會應該要制定這個相關的這個法制就是說來不只是發展指引而已應該是說這個整個的法制相關的法制這樣才能讓這個AI的使用未來越法制化我想這點是一個提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
12923.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
12923.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
獲得獎項 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
12940.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
12940.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
解凍案7案 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
12960.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
12965.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
第4案第4案是第一幕一般行政向下的資訊管理中的資訊服務費預算編列5888萬4千元當初是凍結5%那解凍大家有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
12988.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13006.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
那沒有意見我們就足以動之提報院會第5案第5案是有關於新竹科學管理局第4幕原區業務發展編列預算15143萬4千元凍結20萬元大家對於竹科的解凍案有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13015.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13043.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
那如果沒有意見的話那我們就準予動之提報院會第6案有關於中科中科的園區業務發展也是編列一億一千零二十六萬七千元凍結二十萬元對於中科的解凍案有沒有意見那如果沒有意見我們就準予動之提報院會第7案是關於南科 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13044.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13047.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
南科當初的編列預算是1億3430萬8千元,凍結20萬元。對南科的解凍有沒有意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13056.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13073.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
好,沒有意見那本席有一點小小的提醒因為當初會凍結其實就是因為我們有一些租金預期租金沒有收回那我知道你們現在有努力也有收回部分可是好像還是沒有完全所以這個執行的力道再加強再積極一些OK,好 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13077.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13092.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
好,那我們第7案那我們就也諸與眾之提報院會好,那我們7個案子的案子解凍案都處理完畢那我們接著處理臨時提案那處理臨時提案有林建啟的提案林建啟委員在場齁好,那我們請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13103.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13125.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
有鑑於前專處跟科技辦公室緊急要求國研院技術提出113年台灣可信任生存式AI大語言模型精進與素養能力推動計畫並安排審查會議該計畫執行期間僅數月編入進議員並趕在主委交接前衝突分配定案完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13126.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13139.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
請國家科學對於該計劃始末流程進行解釋是否有突圍堵值之嫌並盡速回覆立法院教育文化委員會提案人林倩琦克之恩、洪孟凱宣讀完畢請國家科學來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13151.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13166.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
這件事情我們同意要來檢討但是是不是我們在用字上面是否有圖例獨持之前我想可不可以刪除這一段那我們答應會在一個月內來回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13168.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13183.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
好,那就是等於是把最後一行字的是否有圖例、獨職之嫌刪掉那並盡速,主委有答應說就是並於一個月內回復立法院、教育及文化委員會好,那我們這個案子就修正通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13191.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13201.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
那各提案若委員補簽,那我們請議事委員詳細登載在議事錄,那補簽在我的左手邊好那我們再來接著請賴氏寶委員謝謝主席有請國科會的吳主委好有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13224.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13244.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
委員好各位好那麼我相信你知道國科會有開發一個這個叫Tide就是AI的OpenAI的台灣版你知不知道現在平均在線上使用的多少人用你們國科會開發的這個相對較的就是ChatGPT |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13253.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13274.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
簽了GPTU你有利用嗎?有有有有用過啦 不常常在用你給個名啦齁 阿你 咱台灣給你開發的TAIDA你有利用嗎?要不會要不會都不知道 你知道沒有啦 我知道你知道TAIDA T-A-I-D-E 我來國家科學才知道阿你國家科學才知道啦齁 阿你知道有幾個人幾個人 幾個人利用 你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13278.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13281.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
多少人?多少人?多少人?多少人?多少人?多少人? |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13308.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13309.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
現下現下現下在在現下我們沒辦法統計但是我們放在那個那個github上面讓大家當現下1萬人啦現上600現下1萬啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13324.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13345.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
主委你聽一下 主委啊 這你的業務哩 台獨你的業務哩 人家很普遍地說 全世界有open AI 台灣有台獨 喔 講五大聲而已 你看讚不讚 但是呢 你看喔 我們做學倫的測驗 仔細看我的那個powerpoint 主委啊你看一下 你看一下 你看我 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13347.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13376.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
報告委員我補充一下下載的數目您剛剛提的是下載的數目對啦下載就1萬啦8B的模型現在有3萬多個下載你知不知道台灣有多少人用checked GPT來來來去你處長繼續講我不知道你不知道就讓我告訴你另外一個人講checked GPT有多少人用你知道嗎台灣喔台灣有多少人用你知道嗎你不知道喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13377.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13386.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
有四分之一的台灣人口用checkGPT了,四分之一,五百九十一萬左右啦啊人家齁,都沒門檻捏,啊你這支機票貸的都台灣外賺捏,用這個門檻捏 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13398.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13421.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
請問你啊,什麼時候可以變成全民版的,這樣不用去專業教育給別人,路人甲路人椅,只要有手機就可以用,什麼時候?你告訴我,你都不知道耶,你也稍微準備一下,你還沒準備一下?什麼時候可以用啊?什麼時候全民可以用?什麼時候全民可以用啦?不要工程師版,什麼時候啦?講一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13425.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13437.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
我們初期開發的階段是放在下載是希望人家拿去以後可以放在他的APP裡面直接用所以這個數字我們沒辦法統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13438.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13458.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
什麼時間可以讓ChatGPT這麼方便變App很簡單的報告委員那他這樣回答我了解就是說現在發展這個Tide他其實是要讓各界專業領域再去訓練他自己專業的模型並不是那種我們叫general AI是讓一般人可以主動使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13460.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13460.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告業務概況． |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13481.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13481.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
有什麼?衛星 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13509.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13513.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
你沒有一個太空中心你知道嗎?有嗎?我們總共打上去幾顆衛星?16顆幾顆?16顆16在那裡打在那裡發射了在那裡發射大部分都美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13528.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13530.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
總共15顆是在美國發射,一顆在法屬圭亞納在赤道附近。 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13545.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13548.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
我所知到的是因為當地居民都不願意啦欸我要插到然後也是扁扁腳這樣噪音什麼之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13574.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13597.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
來跟委員說明一下那個屏東那個蓄海他是學研用的就是做研究用的只有0.9公頃但是現在來講的話無論這個在相公所或是地方的居民我們是說使用的時候都經過他們的一些投票同意的百分之八十以上是同意的小問題我就可以這個要結束了 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13598.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13600.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我們國艦國造、國機國造、潛艦國造、火箭衛星要不要國造 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13606.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13610.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13630.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13648.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
你沒有回答我什麼時候可以我們在臺灣自己發射根據我們現在的規劃這是很重要的航太技術全世界很重要的一個指標根據我們現在的規劃是在20302030可以自己在臺灣發包括火箭因為你衛星是火箭設計的衛星我們自己設計製造在臺灣現在沒有問題火箭呢火箭就是到20302030好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13661.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13674.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
謝謝賴世保委員我們再來請謝依鳳委員主委請回謝依鳳委員不在請鄭振前委員鄭振前委員不在我們再來請范雲委員謝謝召委有請主委有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13687.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13689.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
主委早安先跟您借一兩分鐘因為我剛剛在辦公室聽質詢的時候居然赫然發現一元之委員他剛還在我想說他最好不要走 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13702.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13727.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
他除了在議會被發現定期會議10次會議中簽到10次開會零次上政論節目枉顧議員的職責之外來我們立法院剛新任委員我是上一任全勤委員新任委員翹班放棄質詢權被大家指責現在比較收斂一點可是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13728.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13746.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
他居然在我們的立委的質詢台把質詢當政論節目我也上過政論節目政論節目也可以嚴謹發言但是他未經查證信口開河栽贓同事言論行為如同網軍這難道不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13748.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13766.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
瞄視國會嗎?這種行為才是瞄視國會。好,我今天的主題不是性騷,我講范雲人生沒有任意抹紅過任何人,抹紅,也沒有任意說誰性騷。我人生只有指稱過一位立委性騷,後來就被法院認證,人證、物證齊全,法院認證性騷犯。 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13771.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13775.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
他剛剛說我女權雙標我不敢說我對他黨本黨的做法完全一致我們移警委員可以作證本黨的委員會主委被報導性騷性別歧視的時候我們經過嚴整瞭解發現他們內部性騷制度的確有漏洞我們公開主動要求行政院要調查而且我們說的是調查說的是嫌疑我們也沒有說他就是性騷犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13800.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13821.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
後來果然他被刑罪人調查他的確有性別歧視相關的部分就下台了其他的政務委員有相關的事情如果找我我也協助他們該道歉就道歉民進黨的me too事件發生我主動協助內部建立健全的性別制度我一直覺得制度比較好可是我們國會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13823.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13839.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
憲憑改革民進黨接受的版本葉元芝你敢跟你們的性騷嫌疑犯我非常尊重他因為他們總召的傅昆奇的案子未經調查敢跟他說不應該阻撓立法院就是說就是不分黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13840.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13840.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告業務概況． |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13860.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
13870.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
不要罵人家雙標了連標準都沒有連性騷定義都沒有我們回到今天主題我一定要嚴正駁斥剛剛主委我覺得您話沒有講清楚2021年我跟誰開記者會質疑清華大學您任教的地方我是跟經濟民主聯合他是一個非常嚴謹的公民團體也是最近非常的擔心我們國會亂象團體那他們發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
13889.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
13917.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
我經過查證之後覺得有這個問題清華海峽研究院他是清大的校友會跟對岸廈門市政府北京清華大學成立的未經政府申報就在清華大學校內的裕城大樓內成立一個辦公室攬財投資引發各界擔心挖角我國高科技人才竊取技術疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
13919.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
13943.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
當今明年開記者會的時候親大校方說未曾知悉您剛剛有回應您當時是校長指派你去的我當年也知道說你不是路人甲您是副校長校長指派你去表示校方知悉所以我沒有對你做人身攻擊我是以副校長不是路人甲 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
13944.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
13960.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
這件事情我想請問主委我們當時有亂指控嗎請問您這個被指控背後有中國資金中方勢力的這個單位海峽清華海峽研究院目前有沒有在營運請問主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
13962.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
13977.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
我目前不知道因為...您真的不知道那您真的不關心跟您有關的事目前沒有在營運因為當時也不是我的業務我知道因為那是2016年的事情您當時也...我也收到好幾方人有幫您澄清我說我們針對的是清華您是 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
13980.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
13993.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
新聞報道就是您是代表校長請你去揭幕那是2016年事情了那您知不知道後來這個自強基金會清大校友會就是這背後的這個台灣的民營團體有沒有被經濟部裁罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
13995.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14010.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
您也不知道齁?那我告訴你他們有被裁罰齁那您知不知道清華這個齁目前已經沒有在營運的清華海峽研究院有沒有被教育部齁裁罰您也不知道齁? |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14011.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14026.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
根據我跟教育部的確認那教育部的網站也有公告2021年11月8號教育部公告這個清華海峽研究院違反法令請示立即停止其使用並立即撤離為什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14028.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14042.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
他違反我們國家的兩岸人民關係條例大陸地區40支二條大陸地區之非營利法人團體或其他機構非經各該主管機關許可不得在台灣地區設立辦事處或分支機構從事業務活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14045.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14064.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
這是違法的事我們針對違法的事情我們對於清大校方派副校長去揭幕參加相關活動說自己不知悉我當天最重的話也只有說清大這樣子校方是不是有說謊公然說謊的嫌疑後來的確證明這個案子他就是違反法令 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14065.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14082.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
就是那他已經沒有在運作經濟部已經裁罰自強基金會教育部也裁罰了清華海峽研究院的執行長我們就不用說他是誰了所以我想這是民間團體跟我做一個教育文化委員會我們有證據說到哪裡然後剛才業員之委員可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14086.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14106.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14107.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14132.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
如何防範國家科學及技術成為中國滲透的工具大家知道教育部跟經濟部很少財閥學術相關的交流對不對因為我們一向尊重大學自主這也是為什麼會有這麼多人跟我陳情我會去參加那個記者會而且當時主要的證據就是金明聯的研究員講的那我就我看到的部分覺得清華大學不可能不知曦 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14133.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14134.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
這件事情難道不嚴重嗎?我們看一下美國說要採取小院高牆那他的晶片法案就是都必須要不准在中國擴展然後怎麼樣的技術必須要有國安審查外資交易都要有國安審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14152.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14180.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
美國最興奉自由市場了連美國都擔心半導體AI生技這些的外資交易要國安審查你就知道台灣是不是在最前線那我們也給大家一點例子就是加拿大今年公佈的敏感技術研究領域點名來自中國85個機構試圖竊取加拿大的技術優勢所以呢要求加拿大研究人員避開這些研究組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14181.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14196.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
離開這些研究組織我們剛講到的清華的例子大家可以看到我們的國立大學都有這樣子的一個我講的是危機了跟不夠敏感了我並沒有說他主觀想要怎麼做否則就無法獲得聯邦資金您是國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14198.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14206.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
過去的事情我知道您有澄清過了所以我也沒有任何的發言可是這件事情到現在還有人在帶這種方向風向我真的覺得我們必須在敏感的科技領域的研究防中滲透策略那之前我們的前主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14217.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14222.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
他非常關心這個議題那也有做出相關的一些機制那他也跟我們報告我們有國家核心關鍵技術認定辦法持續滾動檢討評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14232.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14253.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
今天剛好發生業援制就是信口開河的事情是不是主委您可以再談一下您在國家核心關鍵的技術的防中滲透策略在我們前主委的努力下您的看法跟立場是什麼有沒有什麼要積極未來處理的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14254.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14267.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
我們沒有改變態度我們政府當然是以我們國家的發展安全為優先所以在我們在自由民主的社會所訂定的相關的這個國際的規範我們也會遵循 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14272.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14292.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
政府的政策法令我們都會遵循剛剛范委員所提到的協助我們國內的學術界大學去遵循這些法令限制我們也會努力去做我相信很多人是希望能夠做國際學術交流包含對岸 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14292.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14316.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
但是敏感科技的部分不能觸犯國家的法令什麼是敏感科技我覺得國科會有善盡提醒的義務我們不希望任何一個人像清華大學一樣再度觸犯法律被裁罰這是有國家的法令在那主委您可以承諾就是確定這件事情嗎善盡提醒的義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14316.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14336.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
是,會承諾那也請主委您說您完全不知道那個案子的後續發展因為您被捲入其中那您是副校長那您當時不知道可以理解那您捲入其中也希望您了解一下後續發展好嗎?好,謝謝因為這也是您職責相關的事情好不好?謝謝好,那謝謝主委謝謝委員好,謝謝范雲委員范雲委員加油好,主委請回那我們現在請蔡易餘委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14362.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14367.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
好謝謝主席那我們是不是有請我們國科會吳主委好有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14372.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14401.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
委員好主委首先先跟你恭喜就任我想這是一個責任我們也希望你可以帶領台灣未來包括我們要推動的所有的國際的信賴產業讓台灣的所有的產業科技面都可以帶走向邁向國際我想要首先就第一個先跟主委來分享日本政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14401.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14424.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
為了這一次熊本台積電的設廠他們可以說是役注了很多預算甚至協助台積電在熊本設廠設廠的錢也補助包括周邊的交通周邊的相關的一些產業所需要的大大小小市日本可以說為了台積電設廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14427.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14435.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
這個設想的無微不至,用得真好。那所以主委你看到了日本這樣做,那你會有怎樣的想法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14436.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14460.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
我感覺非常的高興就是說台灣的科技的實力現在被全球能夠看得到在友善國家的邀請之下我們也鼓勵我們的廠商可以去拓展我們的國際的這個業務能夠把建廠能夠擴散到友好國家也可以協助當地的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14461.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14462.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14488.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14497.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
議員的一個新台幣那甚至有新聞說如果台積電要在熊本設立二廠的話日本也排版要補助7320億的日元 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14501.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14524.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
來建二廠所以他總計他投入的會高達1.2兆的日元就新台幣2500億所以日本投入了這樣的資源就為了他知道未來半導體加上AI是整個掌握未來的時代的一個脈動跟趨勢那我們台灣呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14526.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14540.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
我們要台灣呢?那我們為了台積電他們事實上他們會要跟流台灣那我們要協助台積電在台灣落實好設廠的每一件事情我們有這樣的協助嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14541.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14562.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
有,我們協助台積電在台灣繼續擴散它的製造基地應該有的協助政府一定都會幫政府都一定會協助嘛一定會協助我現在跟主委分享一件事啦事實上以台積電來說齁他們不用說台積電如果以半導體來說整個半導體我們知道它的原料都是進口的 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14563.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14584.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
那我們台積電或者是所有的半導體廠商他們所生產出來的不管是成熟製程或者是先進製程我們目的就是要出口我們準備看出口的錢那我們現在所有的出口不管是我們的設備原料的進口那跟他們產品的出口我們是靠什麼靠靠哪一種運輸 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14589.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14607.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
出口當然海運空運都有吧應該都是空運吧你如果是晶片當然是空運晶片是空運嗎那原料都不一定原料是不一定那所以咧那如果以現在空運如果我們出口好出口是走空運的話那我們現在空運的機場夠嗎機場要走到空運的空運是OK啦是夠嗎是夠的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14619.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14623.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
就我所知啦,台灣的空運超過百分之九十都是怕脫穿國際基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14626.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14655.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
是吧?你說既定的數量就對了?對啊,既定的數量,都是怕通風啦。這樣我們南部應該要有就對了,你意思是什麼?啊對啦,好啦好,啊南部,我現在要跟主委說啦,你現在都知道通風啦,我們現在也南部從高雄、台南甚至未來嘉義的封莊,它已經變成一個半導體的聚落基地了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14655.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14667.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
那是這些半導體勒他要出口他又要通透過一個很長途的陸運運到了桃園的國際機場然後再轉空運然後運到全世界去 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14669.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14692.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
現在的生態就是這樣那如果日本你看他對他為了要雄本台積電設廠他們可以願意花了這麼多錢只是為了台積電設廠那我們台灣很幸福我們已經有台積電而且台積電持續在我們台灣在佈局那為什麼我們的基礎設施不能因應半導體產業那再來做這個強化勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14695.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
14707.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
欸這個很好的見解喔我也很希望有啊好啊那主委我學了這件事就麻煩國科會跳進來主導那南部有一個巨規模的喀國機場 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
14709.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
14724.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
好不管是落腳在哪裡總是要走出這一步對不對那未來我們的不管是原料的進口我們半導體我們所有封測後封裝後的產品要出口是不是我們就需要這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
14726.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
14749.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
委員很好的建議我會來報告行政院因為這個國土規劃對我覺得你們真的是好好的去跟行政院去盤整然後甚至可以去詢問所有半導體的這些設備商他們目前他們的運輸的成本最重的是站在哪一塊我相信不是在空運那一端是在入運那一端那為什麼在入運那一端呢就是因為入運距離太長 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
14751.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
14751.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
接下來請楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
14782.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
14785.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
主席本席想邀請吳主委好,有請吳主委委員好主委好總統先生宣誓台灣將進駐太空以及發展低軌衛星國會也表示政府會運用台灣的半導體 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
14806.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
14825.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
以及ICT的產業的優勢來加速推動太空相關的科技那其中包括了低軌的通訊衛星那入軌的這個火箭產業推動與人才培訓國家設廠建置等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
14826.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
14850.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
因此本席要請教主委您可以說是半導體產業的推手那您要怎麼樣帶領著現在您的角色是國科會的主委您要怎麼樣帶領著這個國科會來進軍全球的太空產業尤其我們知道我們在2022年我們制定了太空發展法 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
14853.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
14858.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
提案2023年國家太空中心改制為行政法人 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
14861.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
14884.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
在之前我們一直在努力那你對於臺灣呢你認為臺灣在太空這個發展呢會有什麼樣的進展因為本期也看到您曾經主持了全國第一個經濟部學界的科專計劃那你也推動了產學合作這個非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
14884.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
14900.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
各項的計轉成果也有豐碩我們也看到這個成果那你未來要怎麼樣繼續的來發揮你的專長尤其在產學合作這一塊是非常重要將經驗跟國科會來相吻合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
14901.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
14921.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
可以怎麼進行呢?好 謝謝委員這個提問很好我正好利用這個機會跟委員報告我們在太空科技的研究除了我們現在的太空中心結合我們學界的力量之外委員提到關心這個議題就是說我們產業的發展如果沒有同步 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
14922.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
14938.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
您沒有記載沒有用啊沒有同步建立起來的話這個未來要發展光靠政府資源一直不斷投入是不夠的所以我的確會將來會希望我們的太空中心不但是只有結合學術界也一定要結合產業界發展相關的產業謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
14941.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
14958.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
這也是你的專業啦,因為你以往在技轉或者是在這個科專的這個部分產學合作跟民間的相關的產業都有密切,所以本身也希望這個國家是大家的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
14959.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
14975.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
民間非常的努力政府的政策如果是方向正確大家這個合作起來引介起來國科會佔了一個非常重要的這個角色所以本期也希望樂觀其成的看到這個我們方向是一致的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
14976.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
14991.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
也就是政府部門、國科會跟我們的產業界、跟我們的技術、跟我們的學界大家一起來合作。接下來本席要請教也就是人才的問題因為我們看到四年花了4.1億 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
14993.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15014.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
四年花了4.11我們看到半導體創新暨產業新創的高峰論壇像全球的科技人才我們發出了英雄帖一定要摘兵買馬歡迎全球的科技人你可以提出創新的發想來台灣築夢 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15015.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15033.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
但是我們看到我們在留財、攬財、預財方面這個政策4年4.1億我們總共參與者131人留住了多少?留住了多少吳助委你知道嗎?留住了多少人你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15035.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15039.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
留住了多少人?97人了對啊 我已經open book給你了97人 這個成效你滿意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15039.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15044.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
不滿意4.11 4年的時間我們總共參與攬道的只有131人好不容易攬道的131人也只有97人願意留下這個問題該當怎麼辦?部長你有什麼誘因?你有什麼誘因? |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15065.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15082.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
很有可能這些人才來到台灣以後學了更好的技能以後被產業界挖角這個其實也是我們的成果你這樣樂觀其成的看待本行不滿意你的回覆因為這個是嚴肅的議題四年你只有參與的4.1億只有131人 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15090.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15113.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
你還可以開玩笑的說如果他跑到企業你樂觀其成本席跟你討論的是4年4.1億你剛剛回答的是你不滿意這樣的結果所以本席接著問你有什麼方案可以將這個政策可以更精進你今天留不住人才你今天攬不到參與的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15116.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15125.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
那我們是不是方向方法要去做調整未來我們的調整應該是要搭配著產業的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15127.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15154.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
學界一直留住人才當然是一個好的事情但是其實現在我們的學生人數在減少那學界是要精英但是我們培育的人才訓練完以後其實是要服務社會要服務產業的所以我是很認真的回答這個問題所以本席給你時間就這個議題你很認真在回答我也希望可以看到你的方向你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15156.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15177.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
懶財補助機制你的友善措施要怎麼去結盟請你去盤點然後順便資料給本席好不好這個非常的重要我最後給你一個議題2050年的淨零碳排的這個政策方向是全球也是我們國家的政策我想你也朝這個方向來努力嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15178.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15179.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告議員吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15202.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15202.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
議員吳誠文列席報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15225.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15237.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
可以瞭解我們國科會您的立場到底是什麼?您也順便資料給本席針對於2050年的淨零碳排我們要做的政策方向好不好?您順便資料給本席我們再繼續來討論好謝謝謝謝楊瓊英委員主委請回好我們請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在我們請何欣淳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15252.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15254.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
其實我今天關心一點點時間我關心的是還是人才的問題我們國科會就是為國舉財培養人才是我們國科會不管在各個專業領域科學領域都必須要做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15278.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15281.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
但是如同剛剛楊委員提到的我們在流財攬財的部分這個400多人為什麼4年裡面只有97人留下我覺得不是楊委員的這樣子的一個想法我覺得吳助委你的回答我覺得也不夠完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15298.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15314.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
因為在過去這幾年來我過去有6年在這個12個會期在教育委員會那時候我們關係從這個國科會到科技部到國科會那我們都在講說我們的基礎科學人才的培育到底足不足夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15316.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15326.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
我們從內部台灣內部我們自己要培育我們自己的基礎科學人才那我們現在碰到的是少子化的關係所以呢我們的基礎科學人才呢在這幾年來是不夠的是不夠的而這個不夠會影響到什麼影響到未來各個專業領域各個科學領域他們的在從進階的一個研究或者是發展他都會受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15341.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15364.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
這是台灣未來我們必須要認真嚴肅去面對的一個問題第二個問題我們才會說除了我們自己國內的這個基礎科學人才從小到大我們如何在這個教育正規教育體系裡面或者是在高階的研究領域裡面我們如何培訓怎麼去盤點怎麼去檢討那第二個我們如何引進國外的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15365.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15367.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15386.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15409.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
給了這樣的政策方向所以呢才會有這個所謂的國外學人呢或是國外的科學家可以來到台灣我們希望留下他但是目前為止我認為為什麼只有97人留下第一個新知福祉我們是不是可以比得上國外的學術單位研究單位這第一個主委你自己應該也知道啦為什麼會留不住 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15412.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15433.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
第二、我們國內的研究環境是否足以提供這些國外的學者或者是呢甚至我們當時候認為說全世界如果有華人學者是願意選擇台灣來做他的研究基礎我們都展開雙臂來歡迎他但是為什麼他留不下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15434.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15463.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
二、除了薪資扶植之外在於他的生活他的家庭能不能在台灣落地生根而這些都必須要由國科會我們自己主動跨部會的去盤點去爬輸出問題要怎麼去解決要去爭取讓這個機制能夠更好讓更多的國外的人才願意選擇台灣作為他們研究基礎的安心安身立命的地方主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
15465.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
15487.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
我希望你能夠承諾我們好好地去盤點而不是說這是為產業所用如果我們留下的人才可以為國內的產業界所用我也很高興啊可是我們到目前為止這個97人留下是不夠好的這是不真的事實嘛就表示這個有出了一些問題嘛那問題在哪裡我們能不能解決嘛來 諸位 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
15489.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
15505.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
我們會檢視一下看看問題是在哪裡當然我們留在學術界的人力不一定要太多啦因為我們產業需求非常的高而且在產業發展的話它的待遇比在學術界高很多這是不爭的事實我知道啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
15507.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
15522.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
但是如何以國科會為國舉財為國培育人才的這個角色裡面欸你想一下有那麼多那麼多的這個高端專業非常高科技的這些研究各單位欸你認為你們的人才就夠了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
15525.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
15547.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
當然不夠啦但是我們的預算還是有限我們預算有限實在也很難靠政府的力量一直擴充我當然知道預算有限啦我現在是說我們要為國家培育這些基礎科學的人才或者是其他各領域的高端的高科技的這些科學人才而我們國科會是有這個責任因為國科會必須為我們政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
15551.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
15566.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
第11個有現在有未來甚至有潛在性有遠見的一個科技政策這個科技政策呢不是只有科技計畫而已他還包括科技人才的培育 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
15567.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
15588.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
是這個是台灣國立之所在啊那尤其在面臨現在的少子化的現在我們如何去做一個精進調整我覺得我事實上剛剛楊委員在問的時候我期待吳主委能夠提供一個更紅光更有一個時程性的或者是有階段性的有 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
15589.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
15593.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
我期待的是這個當然呢我希望國科會在做這些事的時候不僅僅是為了我們自己國內的科學學界在做不是為了國科會自己在做當然也是為了產業界在做啊是不是主委我期待啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
15615.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
15631.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
希望會後我可以提到一個比較完整的吳主委你的想法在你主政之下的國科會可以對我們各個領域的基礎科學也好各個不同階段的科學的研究的一個人才的培育我希望能夠有一個藍圖好不好謝謝謝謝何欣淳委員主委請回我們接下來請邱志偉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
15647.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
15674.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
首先感謝跟肯定主席在這邊發言還有4分鐘比在院會發言還長院會發言只有3分鐘本席得票有12萬多只給我3分鐘針對立法院執行刑事法那今天在這邊4分鐘還是比院會發言時間還長但是我知道這個主席會給我4加N分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
15675.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
15679.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
有請國科會吳主委南科管理局書局長有請吳主委還有書局長三個園區管理局 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
15689.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
15708.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
目前營業額最高是哪一個園區?南科大概一兆五千多億超越竹科、超越松科目前三個園區管理局的預算跟人力配置是哪一個局最少?南科很奇怪產值最高、轄區最廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
15711.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
15735.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
南科之外還有高雄科學園區高雄科學園區包括路竹包括橋頭未來還有嘉義再來屏東我會來檢測我來檢測啦人不夠人吳誠又不夠要產生他管是啦不是要台灣要均衡嗎是是是總統說台灣要均衡均衡台灣總統有交代了總統有交代所以我會來爭取你從人力從預算就要增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
15737.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
15763.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
從夏威夷要審預算,我希望夏威夷就可以立竿見影,可以嗎?好,謝謝委員支持。你平平點頭啊。好,謝謝委員支持。一定要預算反映出來喔。那個,市長,你們有話要說?他一定同意的,他一定同意的。你們有苦呢?你們要訴苦一下呢?沒有啊?辛苦啦齁,人家管那麼多圓曲圓曲真的是不簡單啦。還是要努力啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
15765.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
15785.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
海外設置科學園區把科學園區的這個我們成功的經驗這個模式來到海外那當然郭志輝這個部長也有這個概念對不對最有可能成型的是哪一個區域東北亞的日本韓國還是東南亞的越南還是哪些國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
15786.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
15805.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
我想日本他們自己在經營園區已經很有經驗了大概不需要我們協助啦日本反而需要耶日本需要我們的廠商進駐是啊那我們去把這個海外台灣的這個科學園區啦科學園區的海外版啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
15806.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
15806.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
獲得獎項 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
15829.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
15847.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
日本政府願意學習台灣經驗,我們當然很樂意。據我瞭解,郭部長也跟他們接觸過,他們是很有意願。也不是相對於本州或者是四國。九州的條件,第一個離台灣近。 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
15850.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
15857.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
二、販毒體的產業鏈慢慢逐漸在形成因為台積電的效應嘛除了日本之外東南亞 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
15858.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
15884.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
哪一個國家比較可能複製台灣的海外版的科學園區?其實我們目前已經有協助民間業者到印度去經營這個...印度,印度的勞動力充沛,而且相關的半導體相關能財也多。除了印度之外,越南有沒有可能?越南其實也是一個我們設想中有可能的國家。所以這個概念很好,那怎麼要具體落實? |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
15885.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
15908.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
僅要有一個詳細的計畫然後執行的時程然後別人相關的預算所以我會跟經濟部這邊來合作那另外就是喬科正在如火如荼在興建那招商都非常好現在已經規劃第2期了那個部長主委有沒有去過喬科 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
15909.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
15913.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主任委員會主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
15929.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
15954.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
所以也是世界半導體的重鎮所以未來發展是非常重要所以我希望說主委能夠有時間去看一下也給我們這個南科的相關同仁加油鼓勵打氣一下好 謝謝委員因為我要遵守時間的紀律剩下問題我在私底下再以後有機會跟委員再報告以後還有機會謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
15958.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
15965.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
好,謝謝邱志偉委員模板真的是典範耶主委請回我們再來請吳思堯委員吳思堯,吳思堯委員不在請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌,鍾嘉斌委員不在今天登記質詢委員均已發言完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
15987.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16015.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
關於今天的會議注如下決議報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢及相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報關於委員質詢要求提供相關資料及未及答覆的部分請相關機關盡速書面答覆113年度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算公務預算解凍案7案業已審訊完 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16018.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16026.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
應審查完均云與豆枝提報院會報文會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位 |