| IVOD_ID |
159409 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159409 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-19T13:35:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-19T13:48:52+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:22 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8d8da86eec6b25b831b1f8e89215403739fe1519e09d1f6fb046c84a64030c6d455f0fb71571eecb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:35:30 - 13:48:52 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算決議有關勞動部預算凍結報告案19案。【報告事項】【如經復議則不予處理】
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於勞動部主管部分。
【3月17日、19日及20日三天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
11.521 |
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謝謝主席 麻煩請部長陳英文好部長好 因為您上任以來本席有發現這段時間勞動部的政策好像大部分我們的觀察是左院長在對外發布的機率比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
34.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
54.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
那我從來也很少就是說看到說有哪一家媒體有提到就是說部長自己對外說明這個所主政的勞動部將有這個什麼重大的這個計畫或改變例如說國定假日要增加勞退要提高那有條件的開放外籍勞工從事服務業等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
79.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
甚至是說像台中百貨公司氣爆事故的救援跟慰問傷患我們看到的大部分都是卓院長在指示優先照顧傷者保障勞工權益 盡速調查事故原因等等我想這些很多行政院在發布集都要說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
80.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
99.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
呃感覺就是說勞團跟工商團體呃對於這個勞動部的這個角色溝通的這個管道就是好像比較弱一點這是有一些奇怪就感覺上有些奇怪然後那反而就是說對於在我們會比較常看到就是過去對於勞動部常有一些需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
102.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
120.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這個補破網的工作 有很多的報導金句 例如說我不吃這一套啦 不用恭喜我啦 就按基金用途改革進行改革進行式等等 或者是說沒動機跟理由迴避這些金句其實大家都反而非常的耳熟能詳 這個報導是看到蠻多的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
124.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
151.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
再來我想要請教就是說部長接任之初喔特別卓院長有給您三個任務請教請問你還記得嗎第一個當然是處理霸凌的問題然後再來一個是處理部內的霸凌整頓的問題然後再來包括是希望能夠提出一個完整的勞工的政策然後也希望做出一些制度的改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
152.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
177.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我想比較還原院長所用的文字就是說穩定勞動部內部同仁的情緒這個是他有講的那我想要請教就是說內部同仁情緒目前都穩定了嗎當然我們這段時間還是會有一些相關的申訴可是我們就是透過該處理的就去處理該面對就面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
178.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
198.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我想這個內部同仁的情緒應該不只不單止就是之前的這個謝怡榮的事件應該還有很多可能有些被揭露有些在調查中有些是在進行中不為人知的我想這些情緒不曉得部長有沒有關注到 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
199.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
220.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
如果有相關的問題的話我想都可以提出來我想這個是很重要的第一個第一件事情部長有這樣提那再來就是要能夠健全友善合理的職場然後讓所有的勞工在安全環境中為國人效力那請問現在大家勞工們都安全了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
222.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
237.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以這部分我想昨天講當時的意思是就是針對我們要求治安法那針對職場霸凌的機制要來把它法制化這部分我們正在當然在進行中然後目前草案已經進入到最後的收尾的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
237.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
264.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我想這個部分大家都一直也都跟部長一直在努力那第三個就是在國家發展過程中對於所有產業人民的需求要提出完整的這個勞工政策那我想請教就是說目前這個部長主要你現在在推動的主要的政策是有哪些然後協助你擬定政策的這些核心人物又是哪些核心人物對 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
268.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
283.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我現在是勞動部長當然我就是要對這些事情負責倒不是什麼核心人物不核心人物的問題那協助你這個就是說擬定決策啦就是的這些人當然部內的同仁很重要就是部內的同仁的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
284.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
300.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
部內的同仁也包括我們其實相關的政策也會諮詢專家學者包括產業先包括勢勞工團體那我再請教部長就是您這三個月沒有築密的歲月裡有沒有好好珍惜自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
305.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
333.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
因為我去查過這個所有的部會很不幸的我沒有找到有任何一個部會的主任秘書一直可以懸缺三個月以上那我是很擔心啦就是說這個我倒要問問就是說勞動部你們這個內部的你們這些資深官員難道你們都不願意擔任部長的主秘嗎你們在幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
336.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
354.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我覺得我們這些相關重要的職缺確實我們有補了一些然後我覺得找到很不錯很適當的人選那可是也有一些持續的在找到在接觸然後在詢問中那我自己心裡也蠻急的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
355.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
382.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以看起來部長蠻嚴格就是您的標準也真的很高這個是好事啦但是三個月的歲月那我們其實都很關心也特別我們過去也都是同事就是說部長是屬於這個輕壯派的部長但現在就是說以在卓內閣的這個放眼望去部長應該算是最年輕的應該是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
385.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
414.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我沒有去問因為有人已經不在了所以你應該是最年輕的那你跟這些可以就是說在輩分上是可以作為您的這個叔叔阿姨輩的這些高階文官那高階文官常常就是高學歷又經驗豐富那部長你如何去領導管理他們然後讓他們看見說你的這個能力然後可以信任你 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
416.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
433.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
因為我們其實都是會很擔心就是說也怕你在勞動部裡面被欺負啊然後或者被蒙蔽而不自知甚至被誤導那這個就是在政策的決策上就會發生很大的問題這個是我們擔心的沒有被欺負的問題我可以很肯定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
434.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
453.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好沒有這個問題這是好事因為如果有人欺負你我們也會幫忙修理他幫忙導正那但是你如果有被蒙蔽的時候我們想幫忙就未必幫得上忙了這是我才我才就是本性比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
454.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
466.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
真正擔心的事情我覺得我們會把這個諮詢的管道盡量的多元然後來聽大家的意見那事實上不管最後的什麼決策我都是要負責的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
467.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
488.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我覺得有一些決策如果錯誤了你嘴巴講說你可以負責但是影響到很多勞工的權益的時候你嘴巴講你可以負責實際上你是沒有辦法負責的我必須要在這裡做這樣提醒雖然我今天的口氣很溫和但是呢我想有些問題是瑞麗的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
490.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
504.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以我做這樣子的提醒那至於哪些部分被蒙蔽我想後續我還會再跟你持續溝通因為你如果繼續被蒙蔽那院長交付你的任務你就沒有辦法完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
506.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
528.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那最近來進入一個實質的問題最近這個職場霸凌的案件還是層出不窮那以最近這個台大醫院某病房的護理站的例子似乎要認定成立了那實務上非常的不容易你們自己北分署的案子也是部長自己親自召集組成有公信力的這些外部委員那最後才能通過的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
529.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
553.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好那而且是在責損一位部長之後然後才被認定成立喔所以部長你也才有機會坐上這個位置那我要請教的是說被霸凌的受害者如果因此罹患精神疾病算不算職業災害算不算這應該算了好你講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
555.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
559.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
这个要经过专业医学的专业认定对 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
559.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
588.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好我想是這樣啦你的回答也沒錯就是畢竟但是這10年來其實大概只有認定25件而已我提供這個數據給部長參考那再來未來即將制定的這個霸凌專章是在他是很奇妙的他是長在職安法裡面那這是不是表示就是說勞動檢查機構將負責未來的這個霸凌調查跟檢查講到這裡我先請教部長就是說調查跟檢查的差別在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
591.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
608.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這當然不一樣對 差別在哪裡檢查是對於我們的很多的防治的做法有沒有做到位必須進行檢查那調查當然就是進入到個案上面那到底發生的事情是什麼進行調查這當然是很不一樣所以其實一個是就是事前的預防跟事後的調查當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
610.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
637.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那再來我要提醒就是說某事業單位的技術長這個新聞被董事長殺害死亡那因為他在他的離職信當中有提及到就是說他在職場上是有被霸凌的狀況所以依據職安法已經進行了勞檢那過去你們的執行裡面並沒有要求就是這個勞檢介入霸凌的調查但是呢你們北分署的案子跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
638.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
649.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
新北的勞檢處也都全部介入他都介入了那這表示就是說那這個將來地方跟中央有可能是不同調的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
651.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
678.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以法令要怎麼定是至關重要那不要造成說將來各縣市就各吹各的調那因為如果說這個事業單位的調查認為霸凌不成立而勞檢調查認定成立的時候部長認為怎麼辦我可以再舉一個例子就是說因為我是想問說那霸凌專章到底能不能處理這一塊因為我來舉這個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
679.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
701.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
嗯 就是職安署如果就說好啦職安署內部的某約顧的同仁被公務人員的同仁霸凌然後勞檢員就是要去調查但是勞檢員又受雇於職安署那你們到底要怎麼處理這些狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
703.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
718.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
跟委員說明剛才講到勞檢的人力他處理的比較不是直接的所謂的調查這個勞檢的部分比方說像新北市的介入他比較是去查他在職場霸凌的問題或者是不法侵害問題上面有沒有做到預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
720.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
746.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那調查的部分還會有調查該有的人力所以這部分會是不太一樣的那當然接下來我們是希望如果治安法的修法有霸凌反霸凌防治專章之後這些都有相關的機制上面的規範對啊那好啦即便是調查沒有預防那你們這些勞檢員要去調查自己的這個顧用他們的人這個治安署有沒有做到預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
748.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
773.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那這個也是另外一個問題啊所以我點出來這樣問題也沒有錯嘛你就是球員兼裁判自己調查自己啊如果涉及到的是這個機構裡面的最高負責人的話當然就設計上面我們會是希望有再由上級機關來做調查就又要就是所以這個專章所以我才清風法也是這樣子啊就是如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
775.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
796.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這個最高負責人是行為人的話那你不太能夠在這個機構只能自己負責我想今天今天我剛提出的這些問題就是一個善意的提醒因為我們畢竟現在就是我們即將要來處理制定這個霸凌專長所以我大概提出這個做以上提醒好那請你們注意謝謝 |