| IVOD_ID |
15940 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15940 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-23T08:31:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-23T13:05:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:33:44 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a6856cf3c1b5b9bab9d46c0396a52a6677963be8d109af184be4ea68f4dac8804f535ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
【5月22日、23日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:16 - 13:05:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好現在繼續開會本日會議議程為邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況並備質詢現在介紹在場委員及列席官員我們陳昭芝委員明月晴委員王振旭委員今天列席的官員是勞動部何沛山部長勞動力發展署蔡孟良署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1775.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1794.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
勞工保險局 白麗珍局長勞動基金運用局 蘇玉清局長職業安全衛生署 周子蓮署長勞動及職業安全衛生研究所 李伯昌所長綜合規劃司 王厚誠司長勞動關係司 王厚維司長勞動保險司 陳美女司長勞動福祉退休司 謝倩倩司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1804.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1819.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
勞動條件及就業平等司黃惟琛司長勞動法務副惠之司長秘書處丁玉珍處長人事處江碧玲處長政風處邱鴻達處長會計處林美信處長統計處梅嘉源處長資訊處劉淳坤 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1832.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1840.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
處長財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心何俊傑執行長好那接下來請勞動部何部長報告時間5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1853.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1877.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
主席、各位委員還有在場的各位女士先生以及我們直播線上的朋友很高興今天有這個機會能接受我們衛華委員會的邀請來向大院來做報告那麼今天是我的首度的備詢我也要在這裡首先我要感謝我的前任許民春部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1877.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1895.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
給我留下了一個非常好的基礎那麼在我們在座的各位同仁的努力下他們讓我很安心的上路那麼我接下來要向各位委員報告我未來的這個工作的重點首先呢在我們0403的這個地震的這個造成的傷害是我們所有台灣人民的痛那麼我們為了協助花蓮災區的勞工朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1907.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1917.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
勞動部有提出了包括勞保保費減免跟傷病給付災區就業補助、僱用獎助以及訓練獎勵跟保費補貼這樣的措施協助花蓮地區的勞工朋友度過難關裡面我要特別強調的是關於僱用獎助以及保費補貼這兩樣都是特別的為我們震災的花蓮朋友而提出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1932.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1934.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那麼我們動用的就業安定基金大概4.6億然後給這一個雇用獎助希望能夠協助業者以及這一個勞動者一起度過難關 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1945.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1966.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那麼再來我想要跟各位委員強調各位關切這個勞保財務改革的問題那剛剛我也已經有回答媒體的提問那總統在520的就職演說有明白的揭示只要政府在勞保絕對不可能倒 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1968.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1976.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
他的內涵就是說政府執政,我們會發展經濟,致力於發展經濟,確保足夠的財政能力,然後對勞保進行挹注跟撥補。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1984.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1997.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那麼這個就是所謂我們有很多朋友在關切那這樣要不要修法呢?要不要把撥補入法呢?事實上這就是撥補入法裡面的政府負最終支付責任的實踐 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1999.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2004.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以這個其實已經做4年了那麼在這從2020到2024這4年來我們撥補了2670億基金水位來到9941億的創新高 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2014.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2020.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以我們所有的勞工朋友真的不要擔心,勞保絕對不會破產,而且勞保現在財務相對穩健所以請各位勞工朋友能夠千萬的放心,總統所承諾的只要政府在,勞保絕對不可能倒 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2036.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2044.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那麼其實我要跟各位強調我們在第三季會召開最低工資審議委員會因為今年是最低工資法通過的元年我們也會很快的來召開諮詢會議然後會呈報決定最低工資的條幅那麼來報請行政院核定以後實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2059.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2065.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
然後呢我們也會落實賴總統的雙就業雙照顧的生養環境友善生養環境的政策那麼這個就是指我們所謂的育嬰留庭或者以及研議未來可能的照顧留庭我們進一步來把它做一個更有效的結合然後可以讓我們的這個雙新家庭還有包括我們想要生養小孩的這個年輕人都可以獲得更有效的照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2090.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2100.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
其實我們為了回應全球永續發展跟國際淨零排放的目標,我們會跟金管會合作,把一系列的勞權指標納入金管會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2105.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2129.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
把企業併購對員工權益的保障除了透過跨部會合作也會列入併購審查的項目那麼這個部分我們會來跟金管會來積極的一起討論再次我們面對缺工的問題我們這也會建立這個跨部會的合作機制我要強調缺工不等於低薪我希望能夠先充斥我們國內的這一個本土的婦女 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2134.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2159.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
以及中高齡還有我們青年的這個就業率那麼在這個在這個前提下呢我們會檢討法規鬆綁雇主聘雇移工資格的條件及人數比例也會推動移工留才久用方案把移工轉化為中階技術人力進一步擴大同時規劃修法讓橋外生跟個人工作許可留台工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2159.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2174.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那麼以上呢我還有很多其他的需要報告的地方那麼可以請委員來參考我們的業務的書面報告那麼也很謝謝還有包括我最後給給我一點時間強調我要推動這個勞政友善化措施這個就是我們希望能夠讓行動AI內閣他能夠落實在我們每一個施政項目裡面然後讓我們廣大的勞工朋友有感那麼以上我們會建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2188.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2198.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
公共平臺、廣大民意、也擴大民眾的參與。行速行動創新的AI團隊為提升勞工的福祉而努力。以上的報告藉請各位委員指教。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2204.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2232.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報現在開始詢答做以下宣告本會委員詢答時間6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘10點30分截止發言登記委員如有書面質詢請於散會前提出預期不受理暫定10點30分休息10分鐘原則上11點30分處理臨時提案10點30分截止收案 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2232.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2236.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那現在請登記第一位委員陳昭芝委員發言及有請部長請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2248.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2249.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
平均值和中位數 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2265.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2265.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
拜訪委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2288.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2299.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那我們就算不算口試委員然後想請教部長您的論文題目想好了嗎?就是您就任這個部長之後您覺得自己最重要的任務是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2301.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2328.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
跟委員報告我剛剛我的業務報告有一定程度的呈現了我的這一個施政的項目施政的這個重點那麼對時間不夠讓部長來做充分報告那之前有一個民調有調查那個賴清德總統就是人民期待賴清德政府能夠做的優先做的解決的一些問題其中有三件跟勞動議題是相關的第一個就是解決長期的薪資停滯 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2330.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2351.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2353.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2354.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
強化低薪的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2383.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2399.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們希望能夠呼籲企業能夠在這方面落實所以在跟金管會我剛剛有提到您講的那個金管會那部分就是說我們可以會跟金管會合作然後要求上市櫃公司揭露這些薪資的標準跟報酬 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2401.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2427.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們本黨可能近期也會提出所謂七月三法就是有獲利的上市公使可能要做這個部分那部長5月初我們剛結束那個臺美貿易協定的這個第二階段的談判那我想您了解其中有關勞動議題的部分很受重視那美國是希望臺灣要能夠禁止輸入有強迫勞動所製造的這個產品那如果在國內發現的話就必須下架那請問勞動部有沒有開始去盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2429.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2433.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我們進口品當中有哪些是屬於這個所謂強迫勞動產出的產品是委員報告喔勞動部本身有在做跟移民所合作研究計畫正在研究什麼是強迫勞動產品事實上根據我的瞭解喔這個強迫勞動產品的清單應該是可能是必須美方提供啦而不是我方所以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2456.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2477.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
對,所以這個部分未來因為台美這個談判還在持續中事實上他們6月才剛離開那當然等一下我會提到國內部分因為我覺得這個緊張的瞭解不只是說為了幫助這個台美貿易協定的進行另外一方面也讓我們國人能夠有預先準備到底哪一些產品是屬於這個部分我們要準備替代品嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2479.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2496.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們也要避免在這個執行所謂強迫勞動產品認定的過程裡面去引發不必要的民怨你知道台灣本身也有強迫勞動的問題因為美國國務院人權報告就指出台灣仲介向移工收取費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2497.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2499.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這就是用強迫勞動的他們的定義強迫勞動那因為美國勞動部的這個同工跟所謂的這個強迫勞動製品名單臺灣的漁獲漁獲的這個部分也被列為強迫勞動所得的這個產品那我知道這個遠洋漁工是屬於農業部來管理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2515.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2535.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
但是監察院也提出過報告那行政院也有指示就是說是不是要做跨部會勞動部也要參與這個部分因為這些遠洋漁工他們的權益跟勞基法有相當的這個距離那所以勞動部可能也是責無旁貸啦那對於漁工重借費收取重借費不曉得部長您的想法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2536.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2550.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
是我們很努力的在因為這是來源國的問題因為漁工收取仲介費基本上是在我講的是臺灣的仲介收取的部分因為他們據說我們是唯一的一個國家有收取這樣的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2552.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2561.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們的定義是你有服務才能收費啦所以那不是那並不是必要而且是他們雙方合意的所以我本本我們是強烈的建議齁是不是應該這個修法禁止仲介 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2569.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2594.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
像移工收取服務費這是美國國務院的建議啦那如果我們繼續這樣做還是可能影響臺美貿易協定的一個繼續的那個進度嘛所以部長至少是不是能夠承諾一下回去研究一下其他國家其他國家哪些會跟臺灣一樣重借會跟移工收取服務費那另外一個就取消如果取消這個服務費會有什麼影響我們可以就取消會有什麼影響那是不是請勞動部可以做個書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2595.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2600.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好提供我們好謝謝那部長您接任這個勞動部部長消息傳來當然某一些勞動團體他們有反彈因為他們當時認為就是說所謂的在他們眼中是個惡法勞基法是惡法但他們認為您是幕後推手但是很多人也不知道其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2615.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2636.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
您當年曾經積極參加勞工運動帶著工人前往勞委會衝撞然後跟警方發生衝突還因此被判刑您是創下學生參與社會運動第一個被判刑的這個例子雖然最後是緩刑所以我相信勞工仍然是你心中最軟的一塊那也有人說 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2637.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2660.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
就是這個勞工是你血液中的DNA啦那我希望部長就是在您的任期當中能夠努力的推動對勞工權益有幫助的一個法案我覺得您這個表現如果你有好的表現的話那未來就是說這些所謂的質疑它是一個平反的這個機會不曉得部長您對這個部分的想法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2662.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2669.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
謝謝委員您很了解我對那就是說因為我確實35年前曾經有這樣子的一個經驗那麼不過因為當時是年輕那麼有這個當時的人道關懷那麼現在我一樣會秉持我的人道關懷對我們勞工朋友做最大的施政努力這一點請您放100個心我覺得對 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2686.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2693.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那關於那個勞基法二修那一件事情呢事實上我想當時的勞動朋友們可能有些誤解那因為我們在修法的過程裡面其實並沒有修惡我們只是讓他有彈性那事實上這部法律經過修法後但現在已經運作6年了事實上也運作得很好那麼我們的經濟到現在才可以這麼創新高那麼勞工的朋友的薪資跟工時其實都是相對更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2716.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2717.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
接下來請林岳晴委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2751.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2754.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
有請我們的何部長請何部長委員好何部長好恭喜你進入到我們的中央行政部門我自己來自民間團體那也一直在關心兒少那也想先對部長有些期許因為少子化本來就是一個國安問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2777.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2806.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那過去我們在民間一直在倡導說少子化的對應政策裡邊年輕人碰到高工時低薪高房價那剛剛部長有講說未來還是會持續延續著我們過去的蔡總統的政策裡邊會把那個基本工資再往上調可是但也期許除了薪資以外年輕人要生養小孩很重要的可能還要考慮的會是你的配套措施因為過去一直在講給育兒津貼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2806.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2836.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
還有很大的部分是在於我剛剛提的像高工時這一塊你剛剛解決低薪格高工時甚至搭配的措施像育嬰價甚至有的國家事實上對產價因為他一次不同而有不同的產價那還有彈性工時跟企圖這都是期待部長未來在你的任內是不是應該讓我們進一步少子化的一些課題事實上透過這些的 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2837.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2845.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
一切相關的制度來讓他真的事實上更能夠有心力來生養小孩今天就要向來問因為移工 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2849.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2872.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
的一些問題就是二月十六號事實上簽了那個台英的MOU那這之後呢就受到了非常多的不同的聲音十一月就去年十一月大家就有人在公共政策平台裏邊提出反對的反對那四月份呢又移工團體呢事實上他不反對可是呢希望能夠執聘 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2874.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2880.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
後來也有僱主團體明確表示說希望我們的看護工可以作為引進的事辦對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2884.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2911.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
在台印的那個MOU裡邊總共簽訂的協議面容大13條那其中有兩個事實上就是在簡化勞工的聘僱程序跟推動直接聘僱這兩項可是我們看到職聘從96年開辦一路以來一直往下因為它只剩下收件的功能所以從105年之後下滑到去年只剩下5700件只剩下收件的 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2912.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2940.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
一個功能所在下一頁所以想先問部長就是說這個執聘政策看起來事實上是一個很失敗的政策可是勞動部在台印的MOU裡面還是把它列入所以想問政府是不是有沒有要在這個台英合作上去振興執聘的好方法有沒有想到 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2941.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2955.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
對,是,委員我了解這個我也把這個列為是我上任以後最重要的工作執聘的這個有效率化跟友善化將是我最重要的施政重點之一因為太多的僱主他們想要自己聘 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2959.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2977.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
可是反鎖的文書作業確實讓大家都覺得很無力喔那麼尤其害我們讓應該要推動的移工朋友也可以自己申請喔這都可以減緩不必要的這種移工的這樣子的一個對他的在勞動環境條件上的改善喔那 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2979.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3006.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我想在這個部分我們你們前陣子有去親身看過職聘中心我們的署長他也有規劃了未來可以線上申辦5天之內就可以拿到件就可以拿到件他有已經有做出這樣子的因為正在使用者的角度上來看的話那你像這樣子的一個要跟這麼多的齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3007.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3036.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
中央部會然後呢地方那所涉及單位大家至少就5個而且拼護過程當中要使用要簽的相關的文件大家就41件相較下我們其他的各種的拼護關係都沒有這麼樣的一個繁瑣所以想問部長就是在93年公布這個顧主拼護外國人許可及管理辦法到20年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3036.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3056.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那這些的程序簡化了嗎?是。這就是現在要去努力的目標。那我們就期待。謝謝委員這一個提供。是是是,真的非常重要。為什麼?因為很麻煩呢,大家就是找仲介啦。可是我覺得仲介的費用這看起來事實上是政府的一些收費標準。 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3059.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3075.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
可是到底他們真的只有這些費用嗎?家庭內的僱主抱著手上的一個名額常常受制於我們的仲介提出來的條件像買工費又稱為挑工費 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3076.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3076.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
委員． |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3102.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3128.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
具備足夠的代表性所以本期要求在評鑑委員的邀請上應該要同時兼顧我剛剛講的這挑工費一般的如果沒有碰到的你根本大家也不太知道那現在有很多的相關的民間團體是不是他們有使用的經驗成了一個民間團體的時候他們有相對的很多的資訊因為都是他們自己親身碰到的是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3129.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3154.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
才有辦法有能力把我們不良的那個仲介把它汰換掉我不知道部長是不是同意針對你的平健委員應該要考慮到多元性可以可以這個謝謝委員其實現在已經有邀請可是我認為應該還可以再更強化外部委員的監督讓他們來加入這樣子這個我們會跟署長一起來研究然後我們來盡快來處理這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3157.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3180.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
對,我不是讓政府一些公佈的收費標準以外還要去增加僱主的負擔我覺得這是政府要去做把關的事實上這是違法的可是當然在查緝上是不是很有利呢這個確實我們必須要來深刻檢討就是希望你們趕快內部針對這個還要評鑑制度也要去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3181.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3182.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3203.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3222.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我完全沒有看過這個人而且完全依賴仲介給我的這樣的一個第三方來做這樣的一個撮合所以本期要求勞動部是不是可以架設一個提供給雇主 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3223.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3232.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
一共在求才求職時得以免費使用的公共面試平台而且能夠附同步的翻譯功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3232.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3258.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
跟履歷、徵材、資訊相互傳遞功能不管是境外或境外的一個聘僱跟境內的承接都要開放使用那讓有助於兩邊的合作關係因為畢竟他們是要長時間相處的我不知道部長這個訴求你可以可以而且現在正在研究要做了但什麼時間會是在什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3259.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3269.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
市長你覺得呢?跟委員報告,確實我們現在已經要提出一個經濟問題,這個部分已經納入我們大概希望因為透過系統的開發或許在下半年我們盡早來對抗 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3271.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3296.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
下半年大概年底有機會嗎還是要這個我們會越快越好因為它涉及到這個系統的開發我們最慢年底前一定可以完成下個會期的時候是不是可以提出初步的一些相關的對應的一些方向這沒有問題這我們會提出好謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝林月琴委員發言接下來請陳金輝委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3306.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3310.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
主席各位委員各位官員大家早安大家好我也請何部長請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3315.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3337.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
何部長首先恭喜你也很謝謝昨天你有到我辦公室我們一起交流了很多議題謝謝那昨天非常非常多委員會也有稍微提到一點國會改革啊藐視國會啊也有人問了吃早餐等等這都不是本席要問的本席其實要為您表達是很敬佩因為這是您12年前曾經說過的可以幫我播一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3343.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3344.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以部長12年前參與一個改造國會終結亂象的研討會 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3364.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3379.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
曾經說過現在國會最大的問題是被壓抑弱化的跟行政院立法局一樣可是我們今天看到的是執政黨不斷想盡方法的阻撓議事進行所以我也很想知道部長您當時因為剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3380.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3399.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
林月琴委員、陳昭志委員也很關心您是公寓人士出身可是後來可能有一些爭議因此現在很多民團也對您就任有一些不同的看法本席也很想知道說您是不是還令我欽佩支持12年前您對於國會改革的支持呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3402.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3425.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
委員跟您報告12年前那個時候我還是立法院的助理那時候我對就是還在總召的辦公室擔任助理那麼我受邀這個民間的智庫基金會然後來講這個國會改革的議題所以您的意思是說這可能也不是您心中真正的想法是因為當時助理的角色必須如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3425.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3426.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我們看下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3452.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3468.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
昨天有非常多委員會有跟互相官員們交流有關於未來假使有藐視國會罪這件事情我們應該要怎麼樣去定義它但本席絕對不會去質詢比如說吃早餐這樣子的議題不過這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3470.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3491.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
之前呢李淑芬委員在第9屆的時候跟您在這個委員會這個場地所進行的爭執當時李淑芬委員說您藐視國會那現在他是11屆的委員所以本席很希望說我們這個委員會在這個會期還有您在上任的時間都還是可以維持平靜我們也是看一下當時的影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3500.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3505.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那個時候我也會是勞工階級哇這個話講得很好那到底他怎麼回事我們看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3507.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3523.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
勞基法修法,民進黨內部很火爆這兩個哪一個先出?這邊知恩其身,不見其人一度還讓宣讀議事的趙偉停下來看看發生什麼事原來吵架的是民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3534.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3557.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
當天因為主席、官員、委員全部都是同黨所以就不便處理啦否則當時林委員是很堅持您是藐視國會所以我想承諾說請部長承諾我們是不是在這一個上任的期間都可以保持理性面對不要再發生類似這樣第9屆的對嗆事件了 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3558.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3567.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
您放心當然一定是這樣謝謝對因為林淑芬委員還在啊我跟她也非常好啦沒有問題謝謝謝謝好下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3570.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3587.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
這次賴總統在宣誓就職的時候呢很大一個重點是我們全國勞工關心的他說只要政府在勞保絕對不會倒結果呢隔天勞保局經過一次的精算報告指出呢2023年底勞保基金精算負債13兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3588.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3590.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
一千五百億元已經是極限了 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3615.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3627.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
再來撥補的方式只是治標不治本這個你也同意嗎昨天我們有交流了一下所以我想請問說民進黨勞保改革喊了8年年金改革也已經砍完了可是攸關千萬勞工的勞保改革我們什麼時候會啟動你在這邊可以給人民一個答案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3637.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3663.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
跟我演報告,我剛剛在業務報告還有那個媒體回答的時候已經講得很清楚,就是說波普就是改革,我們已經進行改革4年了而且改革到現在基金水位創新高目前老闆財務相對穩健,絕對沒有破產的問題你昨天交流的時候有講到一個狀況,就是只要不要所有的人一起去提領 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3664.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3678.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
是 這就是所謂的潛藏負債的定義啦 我想一般社會大眾不是很了解潛藏負債的意思喔 潛藏負債不是負債 它是可能發生的幾負責任而已我們很難去保證 您也不可能去保證說 不會有全部的人同時去提領的狀況嗎 是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3691.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3712.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這是實務上真的是不可能這樣發生的,這是真的,你絕對不可能,因為這是我們寶寶寶有一千零五十萬人,不可能一千零五十萬人全部都在同一個時間去領所以我們現在你的意思是說撥補也是改革的一環,但你還會有除了撥補以外的其他改革做法嗎?我們努力來開源啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3714.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3714.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
好,我們下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3725.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3752.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這個小子女話昨天您來交流的時候說很多的業務其實是衛福部的業務但其實啦這邊要告訴您光是13項的主要工作中勞動部就佔了7項包括準公共機制兩歲以上月的津貼彈性工時推廣新型態的職場托育提升雇主辦理托兒措施加強產業聚落提供托兒服務還有促進這個補給入室啊等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3754.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3782.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我想要請教一下部長因為小子女化這個已經是刻不容緩的問題我明年度我們可能會推出我國小子女化對策計畫2.0勞動部可以有哪些新的多出來的政策紅利嗎因為您在講這些希望民間機構也可以一起參與開辦彈性育兒育兒工時等等的這些真的是要給人家誘因啊你沒有給人家誘因的話誰要做這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3783.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3811.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
是委員就是目前我們正在事辦御殷留庭彈性化對那麼這個是一個很重要的概念就是未來你可能可以用一用小時去請或是一天去請這樣子而不是一個快狀一定要請那麼久也可以方便他回到職場我們需要能夠把它進一步落實不是只有事辦而已那麼需要倡導更多企業這個是您的主要那其他的你有沒有多出來的政策紅利要再 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3812.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3813.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
下一張下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3831.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3857.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
2012年發生的這個勞動基金弊案經過10年後2022年勞動部發出了官方訊息說追回7157萬元不罰所得但是至今還有陳姓經理人還有前所屬的頭姓3.9億餘人目前尚未追回請問你就任之後對於這個3.9億元我們全國人民的錢就任以後追討的規劃為何呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3859.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3860.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我讓基金局的數據長來答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3861.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3889.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
委員好就有關您剛剛所提到的個案我們已經上訴到最高法院最高法院也有判已經有退回到高等法院再重新來審查目前我們正在高院審查中那我們這個案子其他的部分我們都已經追回了希望這4年的任期我們可以把這3.9億人追回是是是好但是呢我們看一下下一頁行政院有修正了中央廉政委員會設置要點 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3891.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3906.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
好這個是行政院長親自主持的比如經濟部長、內政部長、交通部長、NCC、教育部長幾乎都是構成機關之一為什麼勞動部會被排除在外?經過我們剛剛的弊案不是很應該勞動部也要參加中央廉政委員會的組織架構當中嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3910.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3922.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
謝謝委員提醒了我我倒真的還不大瞭解我可以容我向行政院瞭解一下狀況再回答您可以在原則上同意我應該您會申請勞動部也一起加入吧好我來研究處理然後跟您報告好嗎好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3933.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3953.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
最後我們來講到您是供應人士出身的但是這個後來都有一些勞團認為您是站在資方的立場我也想請教您除了五缺缺地缺電缺水缺工缺財請問勞動部對於企業五缺未來的政策走向最重要的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3955.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3973.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我想比較重要的是我們先開發本土的勞動力尤其我們婦女的勞參率還偏低還有中高齡這個部分我們優先來處理最後一張我們給您一個建議其實剛剛很多委員也已經提到了勞工最在乎的是缺錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3975.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3983.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
所以這絕對的低薪普遍化如果繼續下去會習慣成自然根據112年組計總數統計有408萬人月薪是不超過4.3萬元令人無法理解的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3992.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4020.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
世界最有錢的排名台灣居然人均所得是230萬元是世界第12名所以勞動部最大的任務也希望可以納入幫我們的貧富差距縮短因為他目前正在持續的擴大中所以除了性別還有低薪的這個窘境我都希望勞動部可不可以針對就業服務法進行大修把一個月內將修法的方向提供給我們參考呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4021.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4036.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
委員就業服務法確實應該要來全盤檢視不過要跟您報告就業服務法也是一個大工程容我有時間好好跟您報告好嗎謝謝好我們會未來繼續追這個議題謝謝謝謝陳金輝委員發言接下來請盧憲一委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4050.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4051.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
勞工 勞工 勞工 勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4076.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4104.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
是請委員開示也是生孩子的生生產的意思也就是費盡千辛萬苦的人叫labor所以你時時刻刻都要想到勞工是費盡千辛萬苦的人當然當然我們先看到第8頁的那個報告裡面齁那兩那個我們的勞動參與率那我們國人是這樣那我們原住民你知道嗎是原住民的男性是參與率是多少你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4106.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4134.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
第8月,原住民是將近70男性那平均的話是將近62、63那邊也就是說都高於國人那我們再看到第6月我剛剛早上仔細看了你的報告了所以大概我看一下還有第5月那我們的失業率是多少你知道嗎現在大概3%上下沒有我們的你看到我就要想到原住民是不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4138.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4147.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
實質上現在原住民現在的失業率已經降到跟一般國民差不多同等水準了因為災後我們花蓮地震請問你有去過花蓮嗎最近 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4151.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4173.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
對不起我個人因為也沒有這個因為目前的災害地震受災害的情況不太一樣那有些是花蓮市有些秀林鄉秀林鄉比較嚴重那他們很多人主委跟我說他們兩個月過完那個所謂的這邊有寫嘛臨時工作機會大概是提供兩個月必要時可再延長那現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4174.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4184.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那兩個月如果快到了,那你要怎麼來延長它?已經要延到六個月了。對,您放心,您放心。我剛剛在口頭報告一開始就報告了對於震災,海花蓮震災的這個處理,勞動部的這部分措施。 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4195.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4222.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
因為我們常常我當然還是要說我們常常在分類的時候我們是跟弱勢族群在一起可是你在看第17月的報告你會說身心障礙者、原住民、二度就業婦女我們都是放在這邊沒有關係可是你的比如說你協助弱勢失業11萬2243人你只有總數你沒有把它分類我不知道我們原住民的這個在哪裡懂意思嗎所以還是要把我們原住民把它表列化特別標出來還有25頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4228.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4248.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
因為我們常常會發生一些牢災比如說墜落的這些事情常常發生在我們原住民身上我特別看了一下你說營造業的監督執行率是10328次今年到4月為止也就是說120天裡面你執行了1萬多次也就是每天110次你如何達成的 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4249.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4277.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
這邊我請署長來回答好嗎?委員法我們各有各地勞動檢查機構根據風險做監督檢查是由各檢查機構來做實時檢查所以是每天幾乎有121次然後可是我們的罰款還是有1億多那可是1億多的這個件數是多少件違法然後它的平均的受罰的沒件數的受罰的金額是多少應該也要知道啊你雖然知道是1億多可是我不知道你罰了誰也不知道你罰了多少人我們後續再給委員進一步的資料這個我們都有謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4277.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4277.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
好,好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4299.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4299.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
下一頁下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4325.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4350.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
大部分都是在墜落這邊齁就是我們剛剛講的那個職業的災害的那個所謂的盤點或是說監測啊或是去稽查應該都要知道還有不好意思在上岳還有最多跟我講的是說他們去做工作的時候很多僱主都沒有投保所以他們在上班的時候都沒有安全感你要怎麼去杜絕或者去預防這樣的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4353.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4374.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
職災保險現在是一律都可以投喔可是還是很多勞工我們原住民勞工並不知道他有這樣的一個他可以去哪裡去申辦還是怎麼樣好我們來加強這個宣導然後因為事實上職災保險現在到了7就可以投保了只要到ibon他掉下去了然後就去考的時候就顧主沒有幫他保 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4375.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4377.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
而且資災保險是相對便宜,所以這個我們來加強對營造業工地的宣導,好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4387.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4414.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我們目前我們就講移工的部分我們知道要開放一萬五千名那我們怕就是說我們未來會不會擠壓到我們原住民的就業因為我們大部分也從事勞動這些重工業的工作比如說營建或工程你營建這麼多我們的移工的時候會不會相對的就壓縮了我們的工作的權利要怎麼來預防怎麼來跟我們原住民的勞工來解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4415.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4428.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
是跟我們報告我們對原住民勞工的就業保障一定放在最優先所以其實在這個引進移工前我們會確保他招募這個國內的招募到一定比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4430.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4452.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我請署長可你回覆一下好嗎跟委員報告這個我們在開放但是我們跟內政部會在整個程序當中一定會落實對國內的招募的一個部分要優先來試驗對沒有錯可是我還聽到很多老公朋友說外老朋友把我的工作權拿走了所以我想說這個部分你一定要去想辦法杜絕或者說避免可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4453.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4453.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
謝謝盧憲一委員的發言接下來請舒清泉委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4484.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4486.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
謝謝主席我請部長請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4491.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4491.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4520.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4539.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
新任勞動部長何佩珊,勞團金夫,勞保年金大刀要砍了,有這個事嗎?委員,絕對不會,絕對沒有,我剛剛已經講得很清楚了是你剛剛在報告的時候我在那個辦公室有看喔,你說政府會撥補嗎?是下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4543.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4567.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
政策是多領、少領、延後退,這就消耗了嘛。搞到多的、扭到少的、扭到少的,這就歐巴桑就要了,踏到你。我們那個機構的清潔勞務公司的經理跟我講說,欸現在這個部長是特寫的,我說我不知道耶,我不知道,查看看。他說這就政策這樣,那踏到他。 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4578.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4602.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
委員這個是年改過去年改的在討論的方案基本上這個是蔡總統講出來的他在演講的時候這樣講的蔡總統沒有講過這樣子的方案這是過去8年蔡總統執政的時候曾經討論過的年改方案不過基本上這是在勞保年改是不適用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4603.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4614.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
好,華國只有把退休年齡延長兩年,暴動持續將近兩年,到現在還在亂,你的看法怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4616.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4639.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
這就是我們要如果要進行所謂的這一種多腳少領、延後退縱這個東西事實上它付出的社會代價跟成本是非常高的而且恐怕我們整體社會都承擔不起因為就是老闆是1050萬人的保險那麼他幾乎已經是等於是國民的基礎年金的角色了 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4639.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4656.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
政府的角色在哪裡啦?你搞這個就是把問題丟給勞工,叫他比較慢才拿的,叫他要比較早的,要有心理準備,然後叫僱主說你要搞比較早的,然後政府的角色是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4657.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4678.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
政府公共投資與政策投資要夠嘛這個跟我們醫療是一模一樣的嘛現在醫療搞一個總額預算全部把財務的壓力丟給醫界然後這十幾年來政府很好幹啊他們就沒有壓力啊到年底就是總額預算就是浮動嘛浮動就是一點變成0.8、0.6、0.7都你知道的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4682.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4703.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
現在我們的勞動部不錯,還有博普知道政府的角色在哪裡現在的衛福部就是白爛嘛這樣我看起來這兩個問題是一模一樣就政府你的公共政府你的角色政府你的投入要過多才能穩定這兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4706.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4715.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
醫療是台灣最大的穩定力量醫療的幫全都幫勞工更是我們心中的一塊肉所以我要跟你講下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4717.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4737.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
這個你剛剛有講了嘛,會破產或什麼的。好,我問一個問題。現在他們宣布而已。對,這個合併的過程會走很長的。那這個我比較擔心的,因為我很少再叫外送了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4739.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4765.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我覺得我們做這家人,做吃的人,我這裡要跟他們肯定我去餐廳吃,不管哪一個餐廳吃,我坐下來都很感恩人家要煮飯給我們吃,我就很感恩的好吃壞吃,我從來沒在想的,再來就吃,吃吃的感謝父親欠官欠家的,我坐在這邊,因為煮這吃有夠辛苦好啦,那現在Uber跟Panda如何變成一家? |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4766.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4788.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那現在不用他自己定然後這個接送員的薪水他的權益由他定他說了算會不會這樣部長有可能啊因為他是第一名跟第二名的合併這知識體大對消費者跟對外送員的權益都是很可能會產生嚴重的傷害所以你的看法是不好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4789.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4807.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我們醫界齁兩個國家醫院一個是臺大醫院一個是農民總醫院臺北齁那為什麼以前會扶持兩家醫院都當國家醫院這就競爭嘛具競爭又聯合醫療水準才會提高對齁如果只要醫界派大督大要的老大我想搞的全世界都要想搞齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4810.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4834.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
兩家在評比,你看這一次在國外評比榮總的分數竟然贏過台大,雖然贏不多啦台大的院長很不無氣啊不無氣就拚嘛所以這個Uber跟富邦塔要合併我們是省慎喔,要很省慎部長那再來我要問你一個問題喔,這個剛剛你要講這高峰安的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4837.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4850.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
國會助理的事情你在老柯那邊當過主任啊什麼什麼回間回扣什麼亂七八糟你的幹話是什麼這個很重要因為你是勞動部長所以我問你這個問題拍回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4858.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4870.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
這一題我沒有很了解耶真的抱歉因為這個也是一個大問題啦好下一張那你就準備好再來說吧謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4873.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4899.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那剛剛震災的措施我看你也講的非常多昨天我在屏東縣在小悠球做交通的考察那次長去那部長就親自打電話給交通部長說他陪行政院長在花蓮看災我就給他拍拍手我說去講什麼我不知道但是至少你馬上去所以你這些勞工這邊的措施有什麼亮點 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4901.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4922.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我剛剛有跟特別在剛剛業務報告有提到訓練補助跟雇用獎勵這個是我們第一次救安基金使用在對企業來補助他能夠不解雇勞工這個是第一次使用當然要花4.6億所以這就是所謂的雇用獎助所以這一點請委員務必要支持這樣子對 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4928.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4941.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
這一點我們一定支持那還有幾十秒問一個現在這個立法院在表決這個事情十幾年前你是同意的那十幾年後好像你是保留還是反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4944.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4949.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
美國參眾議員很多都說 這個本來就應該要通過的我們也有注意外面的報導阿你講那一面 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4972.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4973.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
謝謝蘇委員的發言接下來我們請黃秀芳委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5003.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5006.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
謝謝主席。我們請何部長。請何部長。黃委員好。謝謝。何部長今天算是你第一次到委員會來備詢。當然很多委員針對勞動部的一些業務對你有很大的一個期許。尤其是年改的議題還有缺工這個議題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5025.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5043.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
其實勞動部的這個所有的業務都跟所有勞工息息相關而且勞工你們的一舉一動所有的政策其實所有勞工都看在眼裡所以我今天先就叫我們這個何部長有關這個缺工的這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5046.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5065.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
當然就是現在我們整個社會高齡化少子化這個問題真的是還蠻嚴重的所以我們勞動部在幾年前就有針對這個缺工的這個議題有提出一個流採酒用的這個方案那我看到這個實施了幾年之後我看到有這個流採酒 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5066.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5081.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
全部全臺灣的移工70多萬人有企業或者是看護工有申請留財久用目前是2萬多人從2萬多人其實我又看到一個問題就是留財久用產業工差不多52萬有申請是1.6萬家庭看護工24萬申請是1.7萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5095.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5119.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那你就發現到一個問題就是說我們來自基層很多的這個中小企業他一直在講缺工那有很多這個傳統產業他原本的這個外籍移工他的技術非常純熟之後這個僱主希望他能夠繼續留下來才會有這個移工留才久用這個方案嘛對不對那我看到這個議題這個問題就很嚴重就是說產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5123.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5123.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我覺得有可能是齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5145.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5171.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
因為家庭看護工喔他的這個是一對一嘛然後他的這個替代性比較少其實他會留下來大家都把他相當像家人了所以會有更多的家庭看護工會希望留下來他本身希望留下來變台灣人然後他的家庭也希望能夠把他留下來繼續照顧這個應該是比較基本的因素啦第二個可能是這個您講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5172.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5172.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
中小企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5193.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5221.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
前年到現在而已其實才兩年我覺得宣傳不夠啦要擴大到各工業區去宣傳對然後甚至下到這一個我們委員的各選區的這個基層的尤其是中小企業這個層次去宣傳這樣子我記得你們要開始推動這個移工留財久用的這個方案當時我有跟許部長講就是說要到這個基層不論是工會或者是這個工業區甚至 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5222.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5239.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5239.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5265.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
在反映說這個移工他技術很純熟我們希望把他留下來好避免他離開之後又到另外其他國家或者是回到他自己的母國又自己開一間公司來跟原本臺灣的這家公司來競爭所以我是覺得說如果有這樣的一個方案看到產業移工他申請的人數反而是比家庭移工還少我覺得這應該是有一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5267.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5287.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
所以你們後面後續要怎麼去處理?現在已經在各地要成立服務中心 對不對我們請署長來講或者是說你們的申請的流程是非常繁瑣非常不容易所以變成說雇主他也不願意去申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5288.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5311.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
對,我跟委員報告因為我們現在移工流財久用在產業這個部分我們現在加強推動從幾個面向第一個就是剛剛委員提到我們直接深入到工業區跟一些相關的一些地方的一些產業園區那這一部分我們現在像類似跟廠協會現在在合作我們會加強在整個在地的那第二個就是說整個流程跟窗口我們現在已經成立了移工流財久用中心單一窗口 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5311.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5332.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
也就是一站式服務啦 所有的需求只要透過我們這個中心 我們就全程來協助 那這個目前看起來效果已經慢慢出來 那我們會持續來推動 那整個程序跟流程跟表現的簡化 我們現在都在持續在檢討當中 我們跟相關部位我們未來會照樣這個部分 所以你們有預計就是說要達到什麼樣的目標嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5334.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5357.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
其實本來我們在移工流財久用大概就是說以8年來看我們包含資深移工跟就是這個比較年輕移工我們希望能夠達到14萬個流財那目前其實我們都超標了我們大概以目前一年都將近2萬個也就是我們預期大概未來我們絕對可以達到我們原來的這個目標值我們會加強來努力其實這個政策是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5359.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5378.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
之前很多的中小企業一直在反映所以才會有這個移工留才久用這樣的一個方案那既然有這樣的一個方案我也希望你們針對這些中小企業應該要多加的去宣傳讓這些技術純熟的移工真正的能夠留在台灣因為確實這個對中小企業來講是有一些幫助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5382.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5409.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
另外剛剛有很多的委員也很關心就是譬如說我們這個婦女就業或者是中高齡就業的這個議題當然我們希望就是說勞動部針對這一部分確實還有需要再加強就是說婦女她的這個勞參率是偏低的尤其是結婚之後生小孩之後勞參率是偏低的那怎麼樣讓她 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5410.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5428.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5428.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5449.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
確實真的還要再加強因為我覺得看了這個一些數據確實是不滿意那在何部長上來之後我相信很多人對你寄予厚望總是新的部長上來有一些新的作為那是不是可以再請部長針對我剛剛講的這個婦女這個就業還有中高齡的這一部分你未來要怎麼加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5451.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5467.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我用我自身的經歷我覺得到我這個年紀大概也差不多就是如果我有生小孩的話現在大概也是應該要之前有在家庭的話大概應該要回歸那事實上因為我覺得婦女大概在中年以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5468.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5470.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我一個就是說我想要推動這個育嬰留庭跟照顧留庭啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5487.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5504.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我們照顧留庭包括大家委員關切的照顧假這些事情我們大家未來再研議另外就是說未來移工是不是可以進入長照體系來做一個補充式的服務然後幫助婦女能夠把更多的照顧責任能夠把它做一點緩解這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5511.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5526.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
今天確實有很多問題想要問我們希望說部長可以針對缺工的這個議題各產業都有這個缺工的聲音所以你要怎麼樣再去聽到各產業缺工那你們要怎麼去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5527.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5545.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
當然就是說很多人在跟我反映這個傳統產業缺工旅宿業餐飲業缺工好像聽到好像到處都在缺工所以怎麼樣去解決這個議題那我覺得說其實這個也不是勞動部一個人可以去解決應該也要去跨部會很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5546.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5563.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
很多可能從有的我們講說很多這個年輕人也許可以從國中甚至高中可以就有建教合作的方式好這個缺工也許可以這樣子慢慢來解決我覺得這個應該也是要一個跨部會的去合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5565.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5592.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我舉個例,像旅宿業缺工喊得很大聲啦那其實是跟交通部我們必須一起解決可是我也要在這裡強調缺工不能等於低薪啦所以我覺得就是說你這個缺工要先從提升本土勞產率、勞動就業開始然後是在不足的情況下我們才去引進移工那麼引進移工的時候我們也要同時重視你的薪水到底是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5593.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5618.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
對,因為這個東西是我們跟交通部現在目前在討論的重點我們希望他能夠把薪水能夠提高一些啦不要一直用低薪,因為你去低薪的話你無論是本土或是移工其實都很難請啦其實前禮拜一的時候國宴那我們在那個餐廳裡面我們就看到很多是這個大學餐飲科的學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5619.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5645.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那他有這個機會來服務其實他也覺得說是很難得的一個經驗那其實我也看到很多比如說高職學生他要升到大學他有的是用這種產學合作的方式那這方面其實也可以減少一些這個增加就業機會然後又可以減少這個缺工的這個問題啦所以我希望說勞動部應該也要主動然後跨部會的來協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5646.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5647.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
謝謝主席,是不是請部長?請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5678.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5707.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
王昭薇好部長好部長先恭喜你喔謝謝這個長期擔任幕僚然後從幕後走向台前喔謝謝站上舞台的滋味如何美光燈聚焦滋味如何這個謝謝委員的疼惜然後對給我很多信心那麼對這個也請委員多多這個照顧支持目前還適應嗎就是說這麼多媒體會開始追著你跑然後站在背心上 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5708.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5713.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
接下來進入到今天的主題我想全國勞工最關注的就是勞保到底會不會破產的議題而這個議題從蔡英文政府8年當時說軍、工、教、勞、義、齊、改結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5737.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5766.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
蔡總統已經卸任了但是勞保改革的列車完全沒有啟動那這個部分我們看到賴總統520就職演說他說有政府在這個勞保就不會倒當大家的靠山那這是不是意味著賴清德沒有要走蔡英文的路線在賴清德任內不會啟動勞保的任何年金改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5768.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5796.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
委員是這樣子我想施政是延續的那施政過去如果有這個值得檢討的地方那也是必須要面對的我想我也有跟您報告過勞保年改跟這一個軍公教改革是不一樣的問題所以當時蔡總統所說的軍公教勞一起改他其實是在騙軍公教就是其實勞本來就沒有要改還是說他改不了 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5797.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5825.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
其實是嘗試改過的20177年就把勞保年改條例送到立院來可是在立院是完全沒有辦法推動的我們朝野都無法支持所以這我們就是有這樣子失敗的經驗所以也進行了檢討好我只要確認一件事情是不是賴總統任內不會啟動勞保年金改革並沒有這樣的方案說服是唯一的選項 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5826.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5854.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
公務委員報告就是撥補就是改革因為對跟大家的認知差有點有部長我必須糾正你一下撥補不是改革好如果撥補是改革的話我覺得軍公教就用撥補就好了就是撥補是改革然後有政府在其實就不會到如果這個邏輯是通的話我相信軍公教他的這個整個基金的規模比勞保小的更多所以其實我要提醒的是當 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5855.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5878.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
政府就是有責任就是要承擔而面對問題當然你們現在可以提出來說撥補但是我要講一句話撥補叫做治標不治本如果撥補這麼的簡單就像我剛剛講的軍公教根本不用改啊對不對就是有政府在就不會倒啊大家都一致啊當時其實不用啟動任何的改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5879.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5897.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我跟委員報告其實我們現在對軍公家也有進行撥補現在即便是現在但你還是改了對不對你減少了他的你減少了他的這個他的所得的部分所以這個部分我還是要提醒這個我們尊重賴總統就是他不啟動這個勞保年金改革但是撥補他就是一個治療的方案你如果看到這一個圖你就可以知道當時間走在拉長的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5909.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5912.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
撥補真的可以讓勞保基金不倒嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5912.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5920.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這個就只是一個短暫的治標。這個是我要告訴部長的。接下來另外一個就是有關於勞工工時的問題。這個部長你應該知道,這個勞工工時在你們今天的報告裡面也有提到。 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5928.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5949.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
每月工時你們提到現在是162.2換算起來年大概就是我們現在看到這個數字我們勞工全年的正常工時1923.6排名全球第6那這個不是一個好的排名我們比臨近的日本、韓國其實還要多部長你知道嗎當然越高吧日本的話它是日韓的部分工時 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5958.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5959.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
所以部長我請教你你認為臺灣的勞工有過勞的問題嗎公使有菜廠的問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5988.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6003.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這個部分當然我想勞工的感受我可以體會就是說這種疲倦在職場上的這樣子的一個感受那我想我們都必須要去面對勞工這種心理感受 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6004.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6023.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
你覺得只是心理感受但是每個月的加班工時這邊是96小時就是年加班工時96小時這樣不高嗎全球排名第6不高嗎所以這個部分我希望這個部長你還是要注意是勞動部部長所以你的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6024.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6041.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
應該是要跟勞工站在一起的跟過去你是行政院秘書長必須幫行政院幫院長就是在做一些政策的辯護我覺得角色上是不一樣的因為勞工部對你是有期待的以前許民村部長都會說我是勞工的大家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6042.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6068.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
你要不要講一遍你是勞工的大家長當然你是當然當然對那勞工的大家長我就希望你把勞工的權益一定是永遠擺在優先而不是企業當然我想這個角色要非常清楚好不好是是是另外一個既然是勞工的權益最近有一個最關注的是外送平台這個Uber Eats跟那個Foodpanda整個要整併那所以未來台灣就只有一家外送 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6069.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6072.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那獨大的時候其實他衍生的問題這個獨大某種程度就是壟斷那當獨大又壟斷的時候請問這一些外送人員的權益應該要怎麼樣去照顧我這邊提出三個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6085.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6105.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
第一個就是說平台合併變成單一平台之後外送員的溢價能力即使他們有公會在相對上來講這個是不是會更弱勢會不會會喔會當然會那這個部分我們勞動部也會想到所以必須勞動部做他們的後盾是支撐他們一起跟職場談判是 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6108.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6120.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我們會來這樣處理除了是口頭的支撐之外在法令上面不是口頭喔我們是實質作為比如說講具體一點好不好像我們5月29號已經要進行他們雙邊的對話的討論我們資方也會參與是你們召開的對對是我們召開的資方也答應參與了好那主要的內容要談及什麼具體的事項來那個市長要報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6137.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6153.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
跟委員報告我們談了好幾個題目但是第一個題目就是賓購後在衛生員工很關心的相關缺因的問題那我們也把他們的訴求提供給兩家主要的業者特別是Uber那也希望他當天能夠提出比較明確的一些說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6153.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6176.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那如果這個外送員的訴求其實平台並不接受請問勞動部有任何的其他的方法跟工具我們正在想辦法這是委員您點到重點確實這平台是相當強勢的因為他們都是跨國企業跨國企業也要適用台灣的法律如果我們有一部中央的法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6178.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6200.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
來規範來要求我覺得這個才會是強而有力的後盾目前的情況是地方政府去訂定自治條例但坦白講我覺得那個要求其實是很有限但今天如果是由中央政府機關針對這個部分如何去保障外送員的相關權益事項包括他們的訴求一些關鍵的 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6202.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6230.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
讓他入法讓他有法令依據管他是多大的外商平台來到台灣你就得適用台灣的法令來到台灣你就必須把台灣的外送員他們的權益視為是你營運裡面最重要的部分不准有剝削而且不准他去任意的去抬高價格這個不只是外送員的權益他將來他如果任意轟台我們每一個人可能都遭殃 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6231.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6251.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
沒人可能都有點外送的這個經驗愛他怎麼抬高就抬高因為你今天要點外送只剩這一家這個問題我希望勞動部其實是要去好好關切的而過去我們中央並沒有立法現在有委員的版本已經開始進來了我覺得這個部分我們必須展現台灣我們的公權力 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6254.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6274.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
讓這一些外商你要來這邊賺錢沒有關係但請遵守台灣的法令這個部分勞動部可以去研議嗎?是當然這個委員我知道這邊外商平台的專法已經都在委員會裡面了對這東西這部分我們會審慎來研議討論對那其次我們會強化各部會的合作包括對公平會這個併購的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6276.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6276.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6304.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6312.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
謝謝王育明委員發言接下來在這邊先做以下宣告等一下在林淑芬委員質詢結束休息10分鐘現在請圖全級委員發言好謝謝主席那請我們何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6335.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6364.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
委員好好 何部長恭喜你來兼任我們的勞動部長謝謝那我想請問一下我們何部長那針對過去8年我們蔡政府他有針對我們基本工資這8年來他有不斷的調漲那我想請問一下尤其這近5年的調漲那我們基本工資調漲的目的是什麼那我想請問一下何部長你覺得這基本工資調漲的目的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6364.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6387.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
當然是為了保障勞工的權益對那是不是也有一部分他是不是也希望能夠帶動我們勞工整體的薪資當然他會有定貌的效果會有對指標作用對那我們也看一下那因為我們基本工資年年上漲可是據我們看到我們這5年來我們的實質的薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6389.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6415.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
沒有成長停滯不前甚至有些還是倒退的你看我們這個近5年從108年到112年我們這5年基本工資的調漲但是這近5年我們實質經常性薪資尤其從110年到112年他是倒退路的也就是說這3年我們物價的上漲通貨的膨脹大於薪資的調漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6418.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6436.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
那針對這一部分我們之前我們的許明春部長他有講他說基本薪資的調漲就是希望能夠帶動我們基本上我們邊際勞工的收入但是有很多的勞工朋友有跟我們講這個基本工資的調漲其實都沒有漲到他們他說因為這基本工資調漲都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6441.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6441.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6466.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6483.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
公務員報告這有兩點第一點就是說確實漲基本工資未必能漲到基本工資以上的那一群人這是事實那麼那個部分我們要動用其他的政策工具我們現在有進行中小企業加薪抵稅的條例的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6484.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6502.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
把那個抵稅的門檻放高放寬這樣子啟動的門檻也放寬這樣相信可以帶動企業願意再替那個基本工資以上的員工加薪這是第一點第二點就是說這有通膨的因素啦所謂的實質經常性薪資這個通膨的因素是因為它是跨部會的問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6504.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6519.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
那當然主要還有包括新台幣可能有貶值的問題等等各方面對還有包括國際的因素等等這部分勞動部會比較沒有辦法用單一部會來解決可是我會想辦法來向行政院反映好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6520.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6542.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
因為今天會提出這部分就是有很多的勞工朋友他說其實這個最低基本工資怎麼調帳尤其我們蔡政府這8年來的調帳他說其實他們是毫無感受因為都是調最低的他們不要說8年這10年來10幾年來他們都沒有調到薪水所以我們從這個實質薪資我們就看得到因為他們沒有調帳 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6544.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6566.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
所以這個通貨的膨脹造成他實質的薪資不但沒有提升反而是後退所以我們看到這8年來好像蔡政府好像對於這基本工資一直調漲好像薪水一直在調但是都是調最低的反而這大部分的沒有領基本工資的他們都沒有調漲所以這個每年每年的物價上漲通貨膨脹 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6567.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6586.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
就變成說看得到實質薪資是倒退的所以這部分會提出也希望何部長能夠重視這十幾年來他們很多人薪水都沒有調漲的問題希望何部長能夠以勞動部的大家長立場來幫我們來了解希望有機會能夠幫他們研議怎麼去解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6588.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6607.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
好那針對第二項那我也知道我們何部長是野百合世代社會運動公運農運出身所以我相信說對於工會這些組織的部分我認為何部長應該也都是非常關心那我想請問一下我們跳下一頁那針對我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6609.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6622.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
公會的組織門檻有很多的勞工跟我們來反映因為台灣是以中小企業為主有98%的企業他僱用的人數不到30人所以算起來有343萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6625.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6646.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
這受雇的勞工並沒有機會來組織這個工會甚至連我們中央銀行他都贊成降低門檻連我們立法院的法治局也認為30人的門檻對於我們中小企業組織工會的權利是受限制的不知道針對我們何部長針對這一部分你的看法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6648.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6668.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
跟委員報告其實許部長他的這個談話是反映台灣社會的現實我們的中小企業真的占了台灣的產業的98%是非常龐大的一個部門到底工會的門檻下修有沒有幫助勞工的團結權其實這是一個問號 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6671.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6700.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
這真的是我們必須很仔細的去分析到底有沒有用因為事實上他並不見得真正能夠提升勞工的團結權那因為事實上在30人以下的單位他本身在團結上面他會有一定程度的難度因為他跟資方之間就是一個家庭的關係類家庭的關係所以你說叫他去跟資方之間用這種公會抗爭的方式事實上也做不到所以事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6701.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6721.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
所謂下修30人以下是不是多數勞工的中小企業內部勞工的想法這我們說真的要去確認因為針對這一部分我們之前詢問過我們許部長當然他說這個降低工會門檻容易影響企業的營運但是我們一直還是不斷接受到很多中小企業很多勞工他說認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6723.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6723.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我們會來研究討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6750.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6772.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
好這一部分也請我們何部長來重視一下那還有我們最近尤其我們去年民洋大火之後有造成我們市民消防人員的殉職其實這幾年來陸陸續續都有很多很年輕很優秀的消防員因為救火保護我們人民生命財產而讓他自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6773.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6794.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
的生命受到損失而罹難那針對我們消防員組織工會的這一部分我請問一下我們何部長請問你對消防員組織工會的這個態度你是否支持我認為這個消防員還是要回歸公務人員協會法可是他們一直認為說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6796.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6820.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
考試院的公務人員協會法這個門檻過高而且對於他們的協商權他們感覺都是被架空的委員跟您報告我們已經請考試院趕快把這個公務人員協會法關於協商的部分做一些放寬這個是比較實際的處理有效解決消防員的那種問題那如果要用公務人員協會法我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6821.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6844.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
這個門檻的部分要去做個調整還有他們所重視的協商權不應該被架空如果真的沒有辦法改善我們倒認為他組織工會的方式可以比照教師那大家一直都很擔心會有勞資爭議處理的問題我們可以像教師組工會一樣明定就是他們也禁止罷工我認為就應該可以解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6845.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6865.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
當然這部分我們今天來講就是因為何部長新上來我們都把一些我們地方民眾的聲音勞工的聲音也希望能夠反映給我們部長知道還有我們從111年的時候我們有正式來統計也希望何部長來重視這個問題我們這個逃逸外勞逃逸外勞的部分已經超過8萬多人了已經超過8萬人那針對這部分而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6874.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6883.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
這個比例我們看起來是年年增加不知道我們勞動部有沒有什麼方法那何部長針對這部分你有沒有自己的看法跟解決方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6884.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6905.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
因為移工的失聯原因真的是很多啦 有勞動條件的問題啦 這個有一般缺工的問題這樣 可是就是說第一個我們可能要強化那個尤其是家庭看護工這一塊啦 他的薪資啦 有可以再提升的空間啦 然後讓他減少他逃跑的誘因啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6906.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6928.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
這個是我們目前也許可以努力的方向那其次是強化那個職聘的服務讓他能夠可以依自己的意願這樣子來進行各種的這樣子的所以我一直希望勞動部針對這一部分一定要來重視因為這個逃逸外勞不但沒有減少還一直在增加所以我們擔心這以後衍生一些治安的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6929.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6942.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
而且現在我們覺得臺灣缺工已經非常的嚴重像我們內政部移民署他在112年有推這個自首的專案讓一些逃逸的外勞怎麼樣子去解決他們的問題讓他們去自首 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6944.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6958.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那我想說這個台灣這個缺工問題也都非常嚴重也有人建議說因為他是自首專案移工他自首之後他就不能再返台來工作那我們想說是不是也勞動部跟內政部是不是有一個機會來研議是不是針對這個自首專案 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6961.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6977.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
﹚議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6977.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6987.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
這個一方面解決逃逸外遙的問題也一方面希望能夠解決我們臺灣缺工嚴重的問題我來跟移民署來討論好嗎對希望這個部長針對這幾個議題先上任我們後面有無限揮灑的空間我們也對何部長有很大的期待希望以上幾個問題部長能夠為我們這些勞工朋友消防員能夠爭取他們合法的權益謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7005.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7007.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
委員．接下來請林淑芬委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7028.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7043.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
林委員好部長這個保障企業併購勞工權益這個是我們賴總統的勞工政見之一他之前選舉的時候在去年出席工會舉辦的勞動政見發表會主動有談到了企業併購的問題賴總統說 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7052.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7071.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
新的時代已經來臨,未來國內勢必有企業會與國際競爭,可能跟國內甚至跟國際企業合併,但是他反對惡意併購他說如果合併後,勞權無法比之前更好,至少不能比原本更差 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7073.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7077.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
大家本來都很高度期待這個說法 這個政見我們要講這個是因為你知道依據這個資誠2023年企業併購白皮書他們去統計了2022年的總計的企業併購有117件 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7094.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7111.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
其中61%是外資來台併購23%是國內併購然後前十大的併購案件中只有一件是金融併購那為什麼我們特別要指出金融併購這個問題是等一下再來談 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7114.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7137.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那你們今天的業務報告其實你們也有談到說要落實賴總統的政見的規劃你們沒有提出修法的規劃而是在既有的併購的時候而在既有的商定流用的原則之下提出了行政指導要供勞工或工會作為協商參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7138.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7148.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
那因為這樣子的話其實是背離了我之前說本來賴總統這樣說的時候大家社會還有勞工團體都相當高度的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7150.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7178.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
但你今天的業務報告蠻令人失望的那為什麼這個呢因為現在的企業併購法涉及到勞工權益的部分就在企業併購法的15到17條那企業併購法裡面只規定金融併購金融機構的併購要改組或轉讓的時候員工享有的權利要用勞基法去辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7179.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7181.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
那所以在這樣子會變成說 抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7186.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7212.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
金融機構他讓你回到勞基法第20條去檢視勞工的權益保障那金融機構以外的呢我們一般的企業併購勞工的權益如果回到企業併購法裡面其實幾乎是沒有保障的那金融機構的併購是多一層大概回到受勞基法第20條的保障所以在這個裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7216.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7241.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我剛剛一開始就講了企業併購裡面前十大裡面只有一件是金融併購受到勞基法保障的前十大只有一件那其他都要回到這個企業併購法但企業併購法或是勞基法第20條其實對當事人保障都非常非常的少 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7242.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7258.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
所以呢,都是採...大家企業併購的時候大家會談說勞動條件可是勞動條件幾乎都沒有什麼保障啊就勞動契約都可以重來但唯一的就是商定流用到底我能不能確保企業併購的時候我的工作還繼續保有不論是企業併購法 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7263.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7285.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
或是勞基法其實也都說你們兩照雙方自行去商定流用所以商定流用原則幾乎就是台灣的原則可是這個不符合賴總統說的賴總統說病過後的權益如果沒有比以前好至少不能比原本差 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7287.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7294.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
那顯然要做什麼?第一個要確定要有工作啊第二個勞動權益至少也不能改啊那為什麼講這個呢?你知道在歐盟啊2001年啊20幾年前他們的2001、231G指令還有德國的民法的613A條他們不是用商定流用欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7314.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7318.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
他們處理企業併購不是用商定流用原則而是秉持著買賣不破雇佣原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7323.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7336.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
他規定勞工的勞動契約關係在企業跟事業單位之全部或一部分轉讓給在轉讓的時候自動隨同這個契約要自動隨同移轉給受讓人保護勞工免於單純因企業轉讓而喪失工作而且不只如此還要給勞工資訊權、諮商權 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7353.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7355.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
還要給勞工工人異議權 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7357.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7377.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
所以在這個裡面在企業併購的時候勞工有資訊權資訊權在歐盟或是德國的民法的條文裡面都講到讓與人即受讓人應通知轉讓所涉及的勞工及其代表下列的事項轉讓或預期的轉讓日轉讓的原因轉讓對勞工所產生的法律、經濟跟社會上的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7386.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7391.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
然後預期對勞工所採取的措施所以這樣的資訊權還有諮商權還有意義權去到確保在企業併購裡面的最弱勢的人就是勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7403.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7418.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
這個勞工工作還到照他們的買賣不破的僱傭的這個精神裡面這個條文裡面第一個一定確保還有工作不但確保還有工作勞動條件都一併要轉讓勞動契約都要一併轉讓所以我們在期待的是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7428.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7443.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我們目前這種商定留用還不一定有工作那有工作的勞動條件勞動契約也會被改變你留了工作保留了我給你薪資減少降低年資不採集等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7448.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7470.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
所以他當然是非常的有利於雇主去基於重新整合人力資源經營效率的目的但是呢你要想想看這樣子受衝擊的就是勞工勞工失去就業然後在這個裡面大量的解雇或者是解雇 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7471.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7495.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
所以在歐盟的這個指令裡面他本來程序當中的勞動契約或勞動關係所產生的權利義務都要一併轉讓我們跟人家差太多了勞工他不會因為你企業併購而失去了你的工作安全益部長我們真的是你看一年這樣子企業併購多少件我剛剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7497.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7505.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
一百多件那這樣的受衝擊的勞工有多少人對這我必須要再來瞭解是署長你知道嗎一年喔每年都有喔是 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7512.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7539.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
你們沒有統計數字不過委員這個您講的很對因為我們企業併購其實在台灣才剛剛比較大可能比較多啦才現在這幾年才開始比較多所以那個其實包括企業是不是惡意併購那本身的這些問題的法律釐清都還要再進一步去處理然後您講的我們不管惡意併購或善意併購或是協商好併購我們通通不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7540.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7545.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我們就是不能接受商定流用原則我們想要的是買賣不破雇佣我會往這個方向來研議處理勞基法第20條它裡面就是僅限於事業單位的改組轉讓它只談到說我保障年資水桶移轉年資可是我都沒工作我直接fire你就好了我幹嘛留住你的年資呢那勞動條件它都可以隨時改的年資 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7568.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7568.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7585.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7606.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
這個勞基法20條只規定新僱主應繼續予以承認年資以外其餘不保證原有的勞動條件也沒有類似大量解僱的時候的強制協商我們的強制協商是只有大量解僱才有換言之除非涉及到大量解僱的人數的門檻沒有任何協商的機制那併購的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7608.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7616.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
只要前30天通知主管機關也不用資訊公開更沒有工會的協商的權利更不要講資訊權那部長你現在說你要訂一個行政指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7622.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7638.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
現在大家都知道沒有任何法律效力不能說沒有法律效力就是說我們會衝進我們的行政的能力來對這個企業的併購行為做一些跨部會的這種指引跟討論因為事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7641.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7662.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
賴總統說你沒有比之前更好至少不能比原本差那所謂的不能比原本差大概有兩個狀況嘛第一個當然就是說工作要一定有第二個你的勞動契約你的年資你的勞動條件要維持原狀就是這兩個而已那你現在的指導原則是沒有法律效力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7663.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7680.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
你有沒有修法計畫修法的計畫也是要跟跨部會討論的也不是勞動部一個部會可以決定那你會提出嗎我們來努力好嗎買賣不破雇傭我們來努力看看然後請委員支持你的努力是什麼時候我們可以看到你至少有提出去討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7682.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7689.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
你提出去討論,我們就可以看到你有努力。好的,我們會來討論。提到部會裡面去討論。是是是。再跟您報告。好,我們就等著看囉。抱歉,我再講。 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7697.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7698.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
謝謝林淑芬委員 現在休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8344.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8364.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
好現在繼續開會請王振旭委員發言謝謝主席有請部長請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8370.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8398.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
委員好部長好是謝謝委員謝謝而且真的是任重道遠謝謝因為關心這麼廣大的勞工朋友如何能夠持續提升他們的工作環境是同時能夠讓他們更願意來幫助社會提升整體的安全的同時也讓國家的經濟競爭力能夠得以持續的維持是非常的要麻煩部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8398.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8420.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那其實在賴總統的就職演說裡面就告訴我們說我們希望來持續的提升整體優質的勞動環境包括我們要創造更好的薪資環境同時只要政府在 勞保絕對不會倒同時要改善這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8422.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8425.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
請問部長您準備好的嗎?您準備了幾支箭來改善這些問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8440.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8456.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
謝謝委員 其實這都是總統他在就職演說最重要的宣示 那我們在剛剛的業務報告裡面其實也已經有所呈現 那麼就是說我們大概盡我們潔淨所能 然後來進行總統的指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8461.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8477.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我們期待在很快的時間裡面能夠在一白天裡面就看到相關的政策可以逐步的來開展來落實其實本席也非常關心有關於工時的問題因為我們知道其實勞工朋友們 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8478.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8504.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
對於他的工作環境還有在一天裡面或者是一週裡面真的工時的問題如何能夠有機會去優化他改善他那依據貴部就是勞動部在2022年國際勞動統計的資料裡面告訴我們說我國的受僱者平均每天每年的工時還是高居OECD國家的第6名這個意思就是說我們的勞動朋友們 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8507.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8521.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
每一個年度的工作時間相較之下還算是相對的付出時間非常的多那我國從2015年到2022年當中年度的總工時其實已經進步了就是減少96個小時不過相較於韓國這段時間的總工時其實他們減少更多他們減少154個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8530.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8550.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以這個降服真的是還有一些進步的空間就是說過去我們減少96個小時我們覺得是進步很多可是香港韓國之下似乎還是可以有更多的進步的空間那我們目前不知道部長知不知道我們那個勞工所訂的這個國定假日一年會有幾天 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8552.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8567.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
因為日本有16天南韓有15天我們是12天當然我們有時候會把它做一些彈性的調整變成一個連續休假讓勞工朋友在這個過程裡面可以安排更好的一些活動的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8568.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8590.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
請問部長是否支持能夠讓總工時能夠持續的來做一些調整讓他有機會在OECD國家的這個排行裡面可以有更好一些改善的同時那能夠這個國定的假日的安排不知道部長這邊有沒有未來在希望有可以有哪一方面的這些處理的模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8591.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8617.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
跟委員報告其實週休二日他就有助於縮短工時所以我們才會看到從2016年我們一例一休落實以後其實我們年總工時都已經下降了當然可是如果要跟其他國際比較的話我們必須要看那個內涵因為日本跟韓國部分工時的勞工太多 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8618.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8646.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
他們韓國16%日本25%新加坡10%我們才3%而已部分工時就是做part-time的啦對那事實上如果就我們的全時工時其實是占多數比較於日韓新加坡這個東西其實還蠻重要就是說那勞工的幸福感跟安全感其實全時勞工一定比部分工時勞工好 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8648.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8669.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
這是很重要的喔你只要去看日本韓國你去看那種街頭流浪還有包括那下流老人的問題啊等等他那個整個社會的那一個整個因為部分公使他包括貧窮化其實是相當比例是相當相當高的對所以如果就我們可能不能單從公使本身去看這個問題這要從內涵去看這樣子我比較建議這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8673.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8701.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
是,所以未來麻煩部長在公佈這些資料的同時也可以做一些強調加說明或讓我們的這個國人可以同時感受到我們在強調希望讓這個勞動朋友的工時有效的或者是得到適當的這個處理的同時也能夠去把內涵同時讓國人都能夠了解也讓我們這些勞動朋友也知道原來這個比較不是只看數字而已還要看相對的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8702.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8724.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
好那謝謝部長這部分就麻煩部長繼續來協助那有關於促進中高齡就業的部分其實本市一直很關心中高齡的這個就業那這個過程必須要兼顧這個勞資的對等還有世代的正義因為我們知道人口結構的改變的同時真的我們希望能夠讓這些中高齡者有機會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8726.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8744.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
不管是對社會的付出也好或充還職場也好都有它更彈性的一個作業的方式那我們在前幾個禮拜已經完成了相關的一些延後退休的一些修法那委員會已經通過了委員提案了 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8744.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8747.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
對於勞資協商或者是這些舊制新制的部分都已經有初步的規劃也入法了 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8763.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8778.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那針對於那個時候許部長也也知道說要要求資方提供更高的不管是健康檢查或者是身心情況的這些因應持續就業帶來的是需要有一些配套的部分那也麻煩許部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8780.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8792.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
在這個當初的能夠有相關的配套的同時我們也希望何部長能夠多關注一下未來在做相關的這些處理的時候能夠持續的來關注這一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8795.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8822.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
有關於這個中高齡勞動率的相對比較低我們還是希望有機會來多了解尤其我們看這個2022年主要國家勞動率的參與率的部分我們看到的就是到了54歲好像還沒有那麼不好可是一旦過了55歲以後就非常明顯的遠低於南韓跟日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8823.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8844.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這一部分我們很期待就是勞動部這一邊能不能夠有更多對這個數據的掌握跟理解為什麼這樣的落差會明顯的有這麼大的變化因為其實在108年所公布的中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8845.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8868.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
就已經在第6條我們往下看就可以看到往下看的第6條事實上就需要政府根據這部法律要針對於相關的調查跟研究要定期的公布那這部分我們有上去瞭解似乎還有待希望能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8869.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8896.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
謝謝謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8897.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8922.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
好謝謝王振旭委員發言接下來請鄭天才委員發言主席各位委員有請部長請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8926.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8933.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
委員好部長恭喜你謝謝好我們看這個今天勞動部的報告這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8937.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8954.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
因為04、03正災﹖提供災期民眾臨時工作機會提供2000個工作機會但是到5月20日用人單位提出需求以全數核定只有527名527名裡面上工的只有356人 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8962.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8991.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
就以花蓮這麼大的震災然後你的報告裡面前面也提到這個很多有兩個飯店大飯店他提出這個顧獎那個名稱叫什麼顧獎措施前面解雇那個大量解雇你的報告裡面提到大量解雇所以這樣的人數就必須要去了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8992.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9013.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
提出臨時工的一個機會臨時工結果只有356人所以這個到底原因是什麼所以這個部分是不是那個事後去瞭解我就跟委員解釋這有時候都靠花蓮縣政府提供所以我們可能要用我們自己分屬的力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9014.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9036.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
下去自己瞭解這樣子。兩個單位都在,其實都有合作。這個勞動部在花蓮也都有相關的機構。都有都有。所以這個部分我們要瞭解原因。並不是說這個宣傳不足,可能不是。我們最起碼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9037.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9052.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
他已經提出需求527啊,實際上工只有356,他覺得說不符合他的需求還怎麼樣,所以這個部分是了解原因,好不好?好,這個回到這個老問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9054.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9070.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
原住民勞工這個無一定僱主的非常多這個是105年的資料當時沒有勞保沒有納入勞保的擴除軍工教農3萬2000多勞工為加入勞保我們看這個111年剛才是3萬多現在是已經4萬553了 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9084.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9098.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
原住民沒有參加勞保的,擴除中工教農,所以沒有勞保的40,553人,這是111年。112年,原住民就業者參加勞保的狀況,原住民無勞保之勞工, |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9112.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9135.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
又增加到五萬兩千零二人一直在成長根據原住民族基本法第26條第二項政府對原住民參加社會保險無力負擔者得以補助法令明定 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9139.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9155.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
為了要解決這些本席之前在就質詢然後非常謝謝已經退休的施法基師長後來他從勞保級級長退休106年4月13號他開了第一次的會議針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9164.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9174.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
補助原住民勞工參加勞工保險費的可行性然後106年5月11號他真的是很積極聯繫開一個月就開了106年5月11號再開邀請相關的部會來開這個就可行性後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9193.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9216.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
106年7月10日又召開。會議結論綜合相關的這些資料之後包括相關的這些數據以及需求特別在會議結論第二點有關勞保費補助經費部分由勞動部配合編列預算之應並協調主計單位納入108年度的預算辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9224.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9242.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
非常明確但是很遺憾的很可惜的沒有促成沒有完成到現在所以這個部分呢是要去解決的部長這個你從過去在立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9243.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9266.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
到行政院我們也認識很多年了所以這個部分是不是能夠重新檢討就是這麼多人而且一直是一個問題尤其是常常過去前任部長會提到說反正已經有職災了那是發生災害的時候那是發生職災的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9271.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9288.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
這個沒辦法用變成用頂多用最最低的最低的勞保的那個去計算跟實際上又不一樣所以事實上當然很多都需要去去探討的部分是不是重新啟動這個之前已經開過的會議可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9291.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9305.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
委員,我們來努力好嗎?我們來努力看看。這個沒有多少錢啊。其實,委員喔,這個也不是錢我補助,我們可以怎麼樣去協助。主要是原民會要發動啦。其實是,對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9309.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9329.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
當然當然當然當然我會來找原民會一起討論不過我也因為牽涉到那個原住民勞工的勞動跟僱傭型態啦這樣子有沒有幫助原住民就業沒有勞保跟無勞保到底我們就要針對解決他實際上是勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9332.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9344.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我來找移民會研究我來找移民會瞭解是是是是是是好好好謝謝好謝謝鄭天才委員發言接下來請何新淳委員發言謝謝主席黃昭偉我們是不是請何佩珊部長請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9358.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9370.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
委員好部長先恭喜啦但是也是期許啦因為還有很多的挑戰在我們的面前那第一個就是最近紛紛擾擾的有關這個兩大外送平臺Obereats and Foodpanda這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9375.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9400.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
合併了之後會變成是一個獨佔市場的一個局面那我等一下也要去經濟委員會問一下公平會但是呢今天在我們胃環就是要就叫我們何部長在勞動權益上這些外送平台的外送人員我知道呢從過去的許部長到現在我們已經喝咖啡然後開了一些座談會議開了好幾次好像五次還六次對不對對那 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9402.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9421.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
開會開到現在呢,何部長就交給你那您對這些外送人員的權益我們勞動部要如何的來堅守立場保障勞工的權益是,委員現在發生的一個新的形式就是他們提出合併那麼其實他們提出合併的過程必須政府機關審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9422.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9430.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那剛好借這個機會啦我們可以向公平會強烈的表示意見要求公平會在這個合併的審查過程必須會勞動部那麼我也會自己帶頭我們來關切這件事情這樣子一定要的是是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9438.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9455.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
現在正在經濟委員會我看到公平會主委他的態度推脫了那呢也沒有堅定的一個立場而且呢都推給呢目前的真的收件要求兩大平台來補件那未來的都推給這個審議委員會那我認為我們作為這個政府機關的第一個公權力要拿出來第二個呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9461.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9468.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
對於各方的一個利益權益意見我們都要做一個強烈的主張主張什麼第一個維護勞權外送人員的勞動權益跟他的安全第二個我們對於這個兩大平台的合併之後的一個市場變成獨佔 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9480.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9491.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
這樣子一個經濟模式對於消費者的權益對於餐飲業、小吃店、小店家的一個權益我覺得這個都是政府該跨部會去做的事情絕對不是說那是審議委員會的事所以部長要硬起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9496.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9525.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
要主張要主動去要求公平會在審議的過程裡面我們勞動部對於外送平台的一個外送人員的一個權益一定要保障一定要發出聲音拜託部長第二個我發現了一個對你的期許就是我們法規的運用要確保勞工的最佳利益這樣子部長你應該認同吧當然我最近發現一個這個不是個案2月29號出生的勞工他衰嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9526.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9542.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
部長你可能看到這句話你會覺得很納悶為什麼跟勞動部有關係來接下來我們現在所有2月29日出生的勞工他的權益受損這一件事情我從基層的承辦人員問到你們的課長問到你們的組長問到你們的市長問到你們的這個局長沒有人敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9550.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9573.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
做決定而且他們也承認我告訴你這個邏輯在哪裡好不好我們台中市這個是個案但是你可以去談通案這個是你要政策來判定案2月29日4年才過一次生日結果當他借齡滿的時候要申請勞保的一個退休的時候連他的退休金都要被吃虧都要吃虧為什麼你知道嗎有兩個模式一個呢我呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9579.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9603.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
這個個案他的年紀已經42年多了那呢他申請提早退休所以他滿60歲按照規定滿60歲他都可以申請提早退休結果呢因為他是2月29號出生也就是在這個個案裡面他明明已經屆年滿60歲了但是呢你們勞保局不給他提出申請你說呢要3月1號才能申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9604.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9622.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
部長你有講說3月1號申請有什麼不對有為什麼因為呢如果在你們認定裡面他只能3月1號提出申請很抱歉他的申請的退休金少了一個基數他3月提出申請4月才能領所以呢他少領了一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9624.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9651.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
在你們現在的勞保制度裡面是這樣子那不是只有在提早申請退休的這個2月29日出生的勞工才這樣子喔是包括介林滿65歲我要申請退休的2月29日出生的勞工也一樣也一樣你們呢讓滿65歲以上可以申請退休的勞工他2月29日出生你說對不起喔我呢還是讓你3月1日才能夠申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9652.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9659.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
那3月1號申請他影響他又是什麼也是一樣他的退休金的權益他掃領了他掃領了是那我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9664.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9682.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
明明行政程序法裡面所有政府的施政所有制度法規都應該從人民的權益要從優從利從寬來認定為什麼我們在勞保的這個退休的勤領的年齡的認定上我們要這麼的嚴苛這第一點第二點你們的承辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9683.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9709.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
告訴我我們是依據民法來推斷那我就要說你們引用的是民法的第121條是對你們有利對政府機關有利最便宜形式的推斷方式你為什麼不從民法第124條裡面他對於年齡的認定年齡至出生之日期算這一條124條是對勞工對人民有利的你們為什麼不採用為什麼不採記為什麼不認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9713.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9728.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
而是從對行政單位最便宜行事的民法121條而且還不是你們自己勞動部的一個行政命令的解釋而且是用其他部會其他部制度的一個解釋行政命令來 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9731.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9731.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
拜託部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9747.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9748.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
接下來請黃珊珊委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9782.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9804.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
謝謝主席,我請部長。請何部長。部長早。我想今天大家都很關心那個外送平台的問題。是。我想問一下部長,你認為外送員是不是勞工?他當然是勞工。他當然是勞工。對。但是他是非典型的勞工,對吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9805.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9831.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
可以這麼說 對非典型的勞工現在會越來越多而且我們但是我們一直都只有一套法律叫做勞動基準法所以常常會有假、承攬、真、雇傭的事實那同樣的外送員不用朝九晚五打卡但是他們是被APP24小時監控著甚至顧客的評價比一般的雇傭更嚴格也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9831.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9832.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
﹚老公 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9852.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9872.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
委員會有加入職業工會嗎?他會加入我們的職災保護嗎?他們就沒有無固定雇主的意思嗎?也就是他用工會的方式我現在的問題是其實在這麼多年尤其現在已經將近14萬個外送員他們各自不同的權利義務都是用契約關係但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9874.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9889.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
在因為我們來自臺北市我們臺北市很早就訂了外送員管理資質條例那全省各縣市全國各縣市也都有訂各自的相關的條例部長我只想問你為什麼中央不肯訂專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9891.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9908.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
不是說應該不是不肯定專法為什麼一直沒有定專法專法在上一個上一屆的臺灣民眾黨賴香林委員很早就提了因為他也是臺北市的勞動局長對專法裡面其實非常重要他有幾個面向第一個要有傷害保險 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9909.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9931.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
顧主要用不管是顧主平台業者要出傷害保險的錢第二個要有職災的通報第三個要有教育的訓練最重要的是要揭露所有跟勞動有關的條件包括他們的抽成他們的酬金不可以片面的變動這些在地方政府相關的自治條裡面都規定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9932.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9943.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
這些東西並不困難中央定專法也不困難因為你既然不能用勞動基準法規範外送員成立一個專法可能是唯一的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9944.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9962.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
我要說的是如果我們全部都在糾結在我們只能有一套勞動基準法我們是沒有辦法面對未來多元新興的社會形態更何況將來的工作永遠都有所謂的非典現在的人不上班在家工作不打卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9963.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9986.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
不進辦公室他一樣是僱傭以後很多類型的工作都會碰到這樣的狀況所以外送員我希望他會成為臺灣第一個認知他是勞工也給他相對保障給他一個專法更何況各地方政府都已經訂了專法這個專法只是要求更公開更透明更有保障部長你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9987.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10014.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我當然這個非常同意委員這個用一個必須要一個法律的形式來保護外送員但是這個我覺得之前所有的人在這些所謂的公開的相關的平台上面公共政策網路參與平台上面爭取然後我們的行政院回覆是因為涉及不同部門主管者要審慎研議一審慎研議又過了四年 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10015.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10040.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
所以我希望新的部長有新的想法是我來努力可是重點就是說要對外送員這個有幫助啦主要是他們彼此之間的共識甚至都還沒有辦法完全離聚所以為什麼地方政府已經離了表示我們只規定最基本平台業者的責任而不是外送員個人的意見我們給他最基本的保障就比照勞動基準法一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10042.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10058.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
給他傷害保險吧給他職災通報吧給他教育訓練吧給他平台揭露資訊公開透明吧最重要的是他的薪酬不可以片面變更或降低而不經過相關的程序對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10059.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10081.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
對當然委員其實前三頁都有從勞基法的角度我們去面對不要只是糾結在我們只有一部勞動基準法而是我們將來非典工作有各種不同的面向全世界都在面對新的狀態我跟委員解釋齁您這個關係我非常肯定是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10083.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10110.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
主要是外送員要跟平台談判要有助於他們跟平台談判那麼這個專法到底有沒有幫助這個是真的是他們之間彼此至少目前為止在這個六大都的六都的城市裡面至少外送員不用擔心自己出狀況的時候沒有人求助現在就是變成他們沒有談判能力所以只好靠地方政府去幫忙如果中央政府願意伸出援手他們不會沒有談判能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10111.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10137.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
所以我們現在一定要盡全力來幫助他們談判是好不好部長我想捍衛勞工權益跟促進勞資和諧是勞動部最基本的責任所以捍衛勞工權益也是我們對新部長的期許好謝謝好謝謝黃珊珊委員的發言在這邊做以下宣告等一下在陳亭飛委員質詢結束處理臨時提案一案現在請牛許廷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10145.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10148.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
好謝謝主席喔這個何部長有請請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10155.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10174.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
部長早安辛苦了今天第一天來備詢這個我們也做了一些功課您過去年輕的時候其實有在勞工運動裡面應該算是有一定的歷練那這個本席這個第一次的質詢跟您討論一下勞工的一些政策希望您不忘初衷可以幫我們的勞工朋友一起來講話我們就直接單刀直入主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10175.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10190.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
第一個是這個今天這個剛剛的新聞今年的第一號颱風即將生成那麼每一次颱風假要不要放假其實都是一個蠻大大家都很多尤其是我們基層的勞工其實都非常期待可以多放一天颱風假 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10191.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10213.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
大家都說台灣的這個過勞狀況其實很嚴重那目前大部分的人都把颱風架有些當成小確幸有些當成喘口氣的這樣的一個機會但北京關心颱風架背後一個政策的一個細節要跟部長來做一下討論齁這個照理來講我們會放颱風架不應該是因為小確幸啦其實是應該是注重勞工的安全嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10213.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10230.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10230.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10242.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
難道現行的這樣子的一個按照這個表格你可以看到勞動部現在的規定這個除了成立的方式由政府來宣布之外其實真正的關鍵是發不發工資按照現行的條件來計算勞動部鼓勵這個企業即便放了颱風架還是要給這個勞工應有的工資但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10250.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10273.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
只能做到建議跟建議加發所謂的建議就是說如果颱風假這個勞工沒有出勤那就是希望你這個做做工的發個薪水如果颱風假勞工依然出勤就做做工的多發一點但是只是建議性質那我想問一下以目前勞動部的瞭解全台灣這麼多的企業從大財團到中小企業到微型企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10274.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10299.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
真的有按照勞動部的建議去發工資或者是加發工資的企業有哪些?大型企業有喔。各位舉幾個例子。在我們那個跟工商團體他們在討論的時候,那他們有提到說比較大型的企業他們會不扣薪,他們會去替員工來體諒這個事情。 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10302.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10328.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
事業單位名稱就比較不方便去講沒關係我現在今天我們只是做政策討論好不好因為這個我們認真的在思考要不要讓他乾脆入法就既然要保障勞工應該讓他到位這個請勞動部先做一下思考好不好因為我理解啦比如說經濟部的角度對不對我發展經濟是墊高的成本但是政府施政就是這樣嘛我希望部長可以守住勞動部的本位嘛就是我站在勞工立場我當然要這樣子強烈的主張有機會往前進的時候從建議變成應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10330.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10352.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我們應該要做嘗試來做溝通那今天的第一步我希望你先做統整剛剛有講有些大型現在只有最大型的相對優渥的企業有條件可以發這個東西可是台灣其實我想部長應該非常了解啦中小企業為主微型企業其實是最多的那這件事有沒有機會做突破那怎麼來做突破給一點小建議比如說建議加大工資我剛剛為什麼要問舉例 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10354.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10377.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
至少我要從鼓勵願意配合勞動部政策方向的企業我總該標舉一下、獎勵一下吧。對不對?迎賀揚善從揚善開始然後逐步往前推本期是接受用一步一步的方式讓勞權進步的但是至少要看到進步的方向跟進步的成果所以第一個我們希望未來這個颱風降因為我們也講了這個是為了安全的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10377.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10389.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這不純然只是單純說他今天沒有上班沒有對價這個問題希望勞動部針對這件事情有一個檢討跟推動的方向好不好這第一個第二個這個剛剛有蠻多人今天在質詢的時候跟您討論這個有關薪資的問題那麼其實主計總署的統計其實我們的實質薪資啊實質薪資開始出現負成長的一個狀況當然你可以講說因為是通貨膨脹或怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10401.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10415.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
但是其實大家要生活要面對的當然就是用實質薪資來做計算才是貼近真實狀況的一個狀況的一個比較貼近一個真實的一個狀況那麼5月17雖然大家都關注立法院的這個衝突但是其實勞工團體在5月17有召開記者會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10417.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10442.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
他們有提出了一部分的訴求我們今天在這個質詢的過程中跟部長來做個政策對話其實蠻重要的就是大家希望說這個加班費的費率可以做有效的調漲現在講平日的加班費就是延長工作時間1.33再延長之後就1.66如果在一例休息日加班就是2.33跟2.66有沒有機會再往上調?這個部長有沒有接到這樣的訴求?保安部有沒有這樣的規劃? |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10444.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10467.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
委員,這很好,牽涉到勞基法的修法啦。對,對。就勞基法的修法,就修一法動全身。這是大工程。我同意嘛。是,對,我們要顯現言義好不好。好,我們先做政策對話好不好。但是我希望可以,我想很多的勞工團體也希望看到部長的態度啦。勞動部有沒有打算往這個方向來推動,再給勞工朋友多一點的溫暖。 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10468.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10485.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
好不好這部長第一個是加班費費率的提升問題我們希望知道勞動部的態度第二個是加班補修的比例問題啊您可以看到這個表格寫得非常清楚平時加班費1比1.33休息日加班是1比2.33但是加班換補修啊當然就是1比1嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10485.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10505.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
那1比1的時候其實很多實務上這個在做勞資雙方在談判的時候勞方處於弱勢所以就各種實務的操作軟硬兼施就要求變成說加班換補修啊那我本來拿加班費我可以拿1.33拿1.66可是我補修的時候被迫1比1啊那其實是不對的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10506.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10531.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
既然他是要超時出勤應該連補休也應該比照1.33或1.66對不對比如說這個連續加班3天換4天補休這樣子比較合理嘛要跟加班費的比例要一次嘛這個同樣牽涉到勞基法的修正對不對部長所以這件事情加班費率的提升跟補休比例的這個正義希望勞動部做個政策研討提出具體的方向可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10532.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10545.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
好今天時間有限那適用期的部分我們用書面的方式也請勞動部提供修法意見好不好好部長辛苦了謝謝謝謝牛許廷委員的發言接下來請麥玉珍委員發言謝謝主席有請部長請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10563.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10576.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
部長好,想要請教部長一下南向政策產學合作推動很久了就是針對就是國際專班主要就是栽培南向政策產業還有我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10579.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10603.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
國人的人力嚴重的缺工所以呢目前我們國家的缺工就是因為希望更多的就是產學合作的學生過來但是勞工就業環境不紮以及低薪的問題讓我們本國的勞工就是有很多相關的工作沒辦法去做請教一下說我們要招攬外 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10603.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10615.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
提升了期望就是填補這些缺口但是呢有助於我國就業的環境優化嗎這樣的部長你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10617.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10637.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
跟委員報告這是教育部跟僑委會啦是但是說因為希望就是用這樣子的合作嘛對但是就是因為產業需求人口的就是市場的需缺很多所以但是我們要如何去做一個連結所以說我們不能說因為這個是僑委會的當然當然當然但是呢因為我們也希望就是產學合作嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10643.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10668.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
對,所以要怎麼樣做一個連結避免就是我們的外僑生就變剝削所以這個部分﹖對啊,也要防止這個部分是啊,所以我們就是針對外僑生我們大量的就是去東南亞就進來我們臺灣的我們越南是最多嘛所以說希望這個部分我們要如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10669.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10692.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
要優化就業也要有優質也要有說讓大家就是不被剝削大家才有願意留下來是當然當然對所以說我們是有怎麼樣去做這樣子的一個合作機制跟僑委會我們部長這邊有沒有什麼想法我當然我想他這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10694.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10713.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
我覺得我可以來提醒他們就是我們這些跨部會在平台會議的時候我們來提醒他們要注意這一個學校在引進的時候跟企業的合作端的時候是不是有不當剝削的情況發生這些可能要做一些就業保障就是要提醒因為共同合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10717.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10742.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
提醒是你的部署,其他人提醒也是,對的,我要怎麼樣是達成共同合作,這個才真正的是保障外國人在臺灣,就是就學跟就業,這個部分就是希望部長你協助。還有針對就是僑生,僑生在臺灣畢業,照現在的規定企業想要 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10743.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10750.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
聘用我們僑生必須達到就是收支基本額新台幣500萬以上還有營業額到1000萬以上進入口的時機總值也要美金100萬以上還有一些或代理用金達到美金40萬以上的門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10768.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10784.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
才能請我們的僑生留下來工作這個造成很多的老闆的困擾因為我們台中很多中小企業他們覺得說我們台灣有這樣的南上政策希望就是更多的人進來我們要留產 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10785.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10808.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
但是門檻太高,大家就是留不住,這樣子的話變成我們大家去用臺灣人民的納稅錢來去補助外朝生來這邊讀書但是都是幫別人來去栽培人才,但是沒辦法留住人才這個門檻是不是說我們的部長這邊可以放寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10810.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10824.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
這個我們有在考慮,我們有在研討,研究中。而且我們未來還規劃,我在業務報告有講,就是推動個人工作許可給我們的僑外生個人工作許可,讓他就留在台灣了這樣子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10825.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10826.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我們來跟這個僑委會一起討論,然後我會來push這件事好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10845.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10850.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
拜託我們部長因為事實上每一個人來這邊就是要來這邊讀書想要留才也是很多企業他們很缺工也缺人才但是我們門檻要太高了大家又沒辦法留才 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10862.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10878.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10878.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10893.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
所以希望我們勞動部這邊好好就是怎麼樣讓放寬讓我們企業可以找到人才不會把企業就往外流往外變成我們台灣就沒有企業了大家就沒有工作了這個部分就是我們部長好好去協助謝謝,謝謝部長謝謝麥玉珍委員接下來請陳亭飛委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10912.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10915.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
謝謝主席,我們請部長,請何部長部長我想在這個4月22號的時候經濟委員會有特地安排部長到我們台南經濟部長跟台南的產業園區還有工業區去做座談然後當時候其實與會的所有傳產 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10942.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10963.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
他們重點就是一個缺工缺工然後再加班的時數的問題我想這個都是他們現在其實非常急需當他們想去拿更多訂單的時候沒有人他們完全動不了 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10964.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10975.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
他說他每一次有辦法去跟人家談到訂單的時候他必須要再返回來去思考一下我有沒有辦法能力否則違約很慘欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10978.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10994.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
對所以這個部分是我們到底現在政府應該怎麼去幫忙我們的產業界去處理的我們的部長新官上任有沒有好的方向有沒有好的主張我們該怎麼去做這個委員報告這一個也是總統520就職員說有特別要我們促進幫忙產業協助解決缺工的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11006.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11031.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
那其實就是剛剛我回答那個蔓玉珍委員的時候就是說我們那個橋外生評選其實這個我們在考我們已經在研究要放寬了就是包括他的門檻打開配額的門檻打開然後那個雇主的資格也放寬所以甚至未來進一步規劃個人工作許可就讓他留下來所以這個這一塊的補充會是一個蠻大的一個蠻大的一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11035.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11063.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那目前部長你有沒有曾經去估算過現在產業界跟經濟部好好的實際盤點需要的人才他的缺工數到底現在是多少現在奇怪的是失業的有可是缺工的也有那到底這當中怎麼把這樣的一個所謂的一個賣取的部分做到最佳 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11065.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11091.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
這到底我們要怎麼做?對,我們這最主要確實是要跨部會解決啦就是我們跟經濟部本來現在已經有平台在對接啦對,那只是說這個沒合上我那一天問了國發會,國發會說我們有一個所謂的人才的一個平台各部會在這裡面,就是重點產業及重大投資跨部會人力供需合作平台,然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11092.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11113.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
都會定期開會那我就說你的定期開會就是勞動部、經濟部跟教育部那這三個部門請問教育部如何提供人才勞動部如何提供我們的勞工然後我們的經濟部如何所謂的我的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11114.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11128.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
這三方怎麼做一個比較好的溝通如果說我們從過去到現在開了十幾次會我問了國發會主委他說副主委他說開了十幾次會我說那十幾次會請問你們延商到什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11133.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11156.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
其實委員有一步一步的在解決裝難你看像去年就開了製造業、農業還有營造業的已經放了大概3萬多人進來了那現在就是我要突破的是說我們在這一塊這是移工嘛你說的是移工對啊你說的是移工重點就是說我們也不能都只用移工來解決缺工 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11156.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11175.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
我們這個平台是我們教育部的人才培育到底怎麼跟產業做一個最好的一些狀況對就是說我們除了剛剛說的橋外生、移工第三我們國內的人才還有我們的勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11177.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11200.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
這是不同的喔這是不同的領域喔我們為什麼在這個平台當中要定期去開會是我們要不斷的盤整我們要不斷盤整也就是盤整的部分是我們到底經濟部我們有沒有請他盤整過經濟部你到底缺多少工經濟部你到底缺多少人才這個數字有沒有出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11202.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11227.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
這數字有沒有出來就是說經濟部你有沒有盤整這些產業界你缺了多少人才你到底缺了多少的勞工白領跟藍領到底缺了多少當我們沒有這些數字的時候我們怎麼去把所謂的橋外生把這個移工把國內的人才然後能夠在這個平台當中坦開心胸 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11228.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11253.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
要求勞動部、要求經濟部、要求教育部、要求所有各個部門所以我一個建議我覺得我們先要盤整我們要盤整各個產業界的需求你沒有盤整現在其實我們變成說大家都在搶工 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11255.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11284.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
尤其當我們半導體需要人才的時候會有一個磁吸把所有傳產都磁吸到他身上所以到底傳產缺多少工我們半導體缺多少工我們的高科技產業缺多少工我們是不是可以在這個平台當中在第一優先尤其未來我們的賴總統說要AI要發展AI那AI我們有多少人才會不會又再發生磁吸 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11286.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11297.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
所以我們拜託部長就是現在520之後大家都信任了部會首長我們要怎麼在這個平台把這樣的問題很具體的提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11299.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11315.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我覺得還是重要的我們先盤整我們的缺工我們的白領藍領所缺的人才到底有多少才來做所謂的需求的整合這樣才會有方向謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11318.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11338.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
謝謝陳廷飛委員的發言現在處理臨時提案總共有一案請宣讀考量勞動部會同人事行政總副及工程會在合作加強針對各機關宣導之時程及成效設定上予以更進一步明確方可將修改政府機關構運用勞務承攬參考原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11340.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11369.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
所欲保障公部門承攬勞工勞動權益之用意在真正落實於114年度公務特種基金及所屬營業事業預算之勞務採購預算編列規劃當中原此特決議因素於一個月內辦理完畢針對各機關之有效宣導作業事後並向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告提案人委員陳金輝、盧先一、蘇清泉宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11372.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11395.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
請問行政單位有沒有意見是主席我們在勞動部來表達一個意見謝謝陳委員等的提案我們這裡可不可以有一個簡單幾個文字幫我們增加一下就是倒數第二行部分決議因素與期限一個月內邀請人事行政總署及工程會嚴厲完成針對各機關之有效宣導作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11396.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11411.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那也跟委員辦公室也溝通過了好,那請問委員,在場委員OK啦,好,那就照文字修正通過那臨時提案全部處理完畢接下來請洪孟楷委員發言來,主席謝謝,麻煩請何部長請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11426.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11452.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
委員好 何部長第一天來立法院備詢但之前你是用其他的身份不過我想以勞動部長身份第一天我必須要說剛剛看了你接受幾個委員的備詢我覺得你還沒有準備好實在話講為什麼陳廷飛委員、民進黨委員剛剛問的那個問題各產業缺工的人數哪一個部會有整理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11457.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11478.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
國發會整理了可以問一下國發會Google一下就Google得到國發會就有講經濟部各產業缺工現況國發會每三年會做一次報告就有把重點的產業做出來缺工狀況昨天本席在經濟委員會諮詢國發會副主委的時候也有問到相關的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11480.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11508.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
IC產業或是AI產業現在缺工的狀況差不多兩萬五千人各其他行業也有其他的缺工人才所以這個部分可以跨部會了解當然勞動部重要的工作在於是很多委員都有問到年金改革今天我剛看到一個標題寫說撥補就是改革這是現在我們新任部長所講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11510.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11537.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
所以意思是您宣告有可能在您任內不會推動年金改革是這樣嗎這句話撥補就是改革撥補就是改革所以不會有其他的工作我們這四年來不是四年就是未來就是說我們會持續推動撥補的改革持續推動撥補的改革就撥多撥少但不會做其他的部分是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11538.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11566.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我們會有開源的一些做法啦2024年2月29日前任部長許明春他上專訪的時候講勞保缺口不能只靠撥補解決問題還是要改革結果新任部長第一天到立法院講說缺口就是撥補解決問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11569.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11598.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
沒有其他方式了不會要改革了所以我就不禁好奇啊之前一直傳說勞動部長有可能許民春會持續留任但到最後最後一刻變成您是不是因為他講了這句話跟現在新任總統的方向不一致所以就換一個可以貫徹新任總統意志的人所以新任總統的方向就是勞保缺口就是靠撥補就是不用做其他改革是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11601.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11622.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
對啊,這就是我現在的做法好,非常好,留下記錄但是我們也要看到是說您真的認為說現在的這個年金相關的制度都沒有任何需要再調整或是討論改變的地方嗎?賴清德總統之前在選總統的時候有講過當然他講的有一些話很好聽啦有政府,勞保不會倒 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11623.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11635.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
有政府給大家靠但是他也有提過說要社會共識來尋求解決問題的方式那其中我們有提到是說這個提波率6%的部分到目前為止也都沒有調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11636.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11661.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
這是另外一個部分的問題這是勞退勞退條例的部分能不能再提高要修法是這要修進行修法我們會來研議處理會有研議處理是不是所以您認為怎麼樣的一個方向是大家覺得合理有可行的因為今天也在做任何政策對話所以我也要瞭解您新任部長的一個想法你覺得之前大家也都有提過 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11663.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11691.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
勞團也呼籲提高僱主的提撥率那現在6%之前的講法說6%是最低標準啦你們可以用勞資雙方來去協商你們也可以提高提撥率啊但我們現在有沒有掌握本時間想請教另外一個統計掌握的問題有沒有掌握我們目前全國的企業裡面哪一些企業他的提撥率高於6%有多少比例的企業是現在提撥率高於6%的 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11694.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11694.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
多少比例? |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11697.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11725.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
現在的提撥率其實只要是企業的部分其實應該都有提撥吧企業都有啊是嗎6%是最低標準嗎是我們法令規定嘛而且是一定要說一定要嘛但我們之前一直提過勞團一直呼籲說要提高那你們一直強調是說6%只是最低標準你們協商就可以提高那本席現在問題就是那到底有哪個企業是透過協商之後提高提撥率的 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11726.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11730.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
部長,您心目中的目標覺得應該要提高到多少才算是您心中的目標? |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11748.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11759.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
委員這個部分我們還必須跟這個勞資雙方我們要來協商啦所以你覺得現在6%是要提高的但是你目前要提高到多少你還沒有一個定見 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11761.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11779.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
不是沒有訂建是我們還必須討論還是不方便把部長的底牌先出來讓我私下跟您報告好了不要私下我們現在私下很怕都是密會協商我們大家都希望公開透明是是是那部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11780.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11801.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
而且我要跟委員報告喔 這個也要考慮整個景氣變動的因素啦就是說我們可能要這個讓 過去蔡英文政府的時候不是講說臺灣景氣史上最好股市兩萬多點 是啊那這樣的話依您講到景氣如果以現在政府大內宣的狀況我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11803.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11809.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
當然現在我們是準備很積極來推這件事情積極會多久內會有我們盡量不要多用文青式的語言來立法院我想他就不是我們是公開討論政策您能夠推動能夠負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11826.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11852.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
不要預期在野黨給你掌聲但是我相信在野黨一定理性的監督當然不會惡意的來阻撓但是既然講出來我們時間點就要做那另外因為時間到但我最後一分鐘本期從第10屆就一直在推動外送平台跟外送員的保障專訪是第10屆的時候我就有送出相關的草案第11屆我現在也已經送出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11853.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11871.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那剛剛有委員提到就是因為現在兩大平台業者龍頭也要做合併購那在不管併購與否有沒有成案可是對於外送員14萬名的外送員勞工的保障餐廳業者的保障以及消費者權益的保障都應該要有一個專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11873.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11897.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
那對於各縣市現在也都有訂立安全指引但不管指引再怎麼訂立就是比不上正式立法的約束力我先肯定一下前任部長他至少在我講的時候說一個禮拜內要把過去跟外送平台還有相關開會的記錄上網一個禮拜內確實做到了本席也看到了但是還是不夠在於是 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11897.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11926.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
不能每一次跟外送平台的溝通都要靠部長或是都要靠我們官員約他們來喝咖啡而是應該要真的確立有一個最基本的一個保障跟專法想請教部長您的態度當然能不能支持這是我們要去這個努力的方向努力的方向所以部長是支持如果說我們能夠有一個專法外送平台專法因為現在大家也覺得是說外送員不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11928.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11947.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我們之前所提的這個勞基法保障的勞工他算比較非典型勞工非典型勞工我們就應該要有彈性的保障所以我們才強調是說有外送員及外送平台的相關專法能夠保障外送員、保障餐廳、保障消費者權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11948.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11963.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
對,不過我還是要強調一點我們推動專法目的是要幫協助外送委員可以跟強勢的平台談判要對這個有幫助啦那外送委員他們彼此之間是不是有共識這個要考慮你總不可能另一個專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11964.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11982.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
本席其實我說實在話我覺得說不是說讓誰哪一方有強勢而是保障最基本大家的合理的權益這兩者不一樣我沒有說一定是站在如果說哪一天外送員的力量大到是說平台受不了 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11982.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12006.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我也覺得應該要有平衡但重點在於是什麼重點在於是現在很明顯的就是平台的權益大兩個龍頭他們的議價空間他們的制定規則的能力已經大過很多那如果說未來併購之後變成一家龍頭我剛剛也詢問過我們公平會主委公平會主委就是說世界各國到目前為止還沒有哪一家獨大的外送平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12007.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12029.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那你如果說去找其他產業的話就變成是寡占市場、壟斷市場所以部長專法的部分你的態度說會努力本席已經提出來了我相信有其他委員版本我們正式排審的時候我要看到勞動部保障勞工的決心可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12031.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12048.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
最後要回答一下說那個好你沒有錄到音這樣子不行來按個麥克風講一下好真的啦沒有啦我要結束了我要結束了我知道就是最後那個部長說好但是因為你剛剛沒有麥克風這個好都不能留下記錄部長我們加油好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12057.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12065.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
好,因為時間的關係後面還有很多委員要發言好接下來請廖偉祥委員發言主席好,有請我們何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12083.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12093.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
你好部長好,恭喜你喔那我也要這個剛好我今天準備的題目也順著剛剛洪偉仁的來繼續喔那部長我們看一下我們的簡報喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12095.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12114.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
這是網路上一名外送員公布他在上一年的冬天霸王級寒流來的時候外出跑外送的收入截圖那我想要請教部長你知道這個收入是怎麼算出來的嗎?左邊這邊你知道這個收入怎麼算出來的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12115.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12141.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
這是他們的營業資料吧對 這個應該是他們的演算法計算出來的吧演算法計算出來嘛 對不對好那他這裡大概是從12月21號週四喔跑到12月23號456大概三天的時間喔好您剛剛說演算法算出來的好沒關係這是由於這樣的機制很複雜又不透明憑良心講我也不知道怎麼算出來的所以演算法算出來的確是一個說法喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12142.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12158.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
所以部長不能確定內容也很合理那這也是外送員目前面臨的困境之一那依照他該篇文章的所敘述說大概該名外送員大概每天會跑到12個小時總收入是8895元那總單數是132單那平均算起來每單是67元那部長你覺得這樣算多嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12171.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12187.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我可以請署長回答一下因為他們的計算就是以送單的是兩家業者不太一樣有的是用像熊貓他就用里程數還有包括他接單費但是uber確實是依據他不同的時段有一個特別的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12188.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12201.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
那他們每個地方都有沒關係我先問你的問題比較簡單我知道他們有一些不同的計算方式那他每單這裡看到每單是67元你們覺得多還是少以熊夢來講他們起跳是40塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12204.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12230.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
但是就不知道他每一單的距離跟他的遠近那我告訴你每一單67人還是因為這個霸王級的寒流喔點外送的人暴增然後這個外送員的人數又偏少的情況之下他也算是一年中很少數的高峰所以67人每一單算是少數的高峰喔如果換成一般的時間外送員收入會更少喔更何況還沒有包含這個外送員的油資 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12231.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12242.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
設備攤提、罰單、不慎損毀餐點或是沒收到小費等等對不對好那我想要請問部長你覺得每單外送費用多少錢才比較合理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12246.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12262.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
委員這個齁其實就是他們大概是爭議的核心啦因為他們就是平台他們有他們的掌握的資料所以他們用他們的演算法算出他們自認為合理的數字可是對方上演的感受來講他們覺得這樣不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12262.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12279.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
好沒關係部長我覺得你講話有點繞來繞去的我剛剛問說這一單你覺得一單大概要多少錢你覺得比較合理好那我告訴你部長很明顯目前依照外送員工會的自行估計應該是要參考基本薪資的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12280.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12299.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
每單不應低於61元因為他大概一個小時跑三單而且我說的是這個還算是比較巔峰的時期那如果他少一點的時候一個小時可能沒有這麼多單對不對是吧其實我覺得61元都算低了算起來你乘以三單的話183塊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12302.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12324.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
是不是?所以算是很低喔?所以在現行情況之下而且這180幾塊是不含我剛剛講的他所有的設備攤提油脂等等的狀況但目前的現行情況之下以後外送費可能會越來越低你也認同嗎?因為你有點頭你覺得有可能會越來越低有可能好謝謝部長那原因下一張我來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12327 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12349.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
欸抱歉你再上一張好了我再順便講一下這個你可以看到國外的幾個地區喔這個外送員最低報酬的規定包含這個西雅圖他有說不得低於最低薪資那德國的部分還有扣除勞務成本後這個機車耗損不得低於基本薪資還有使用專法並準用最低薪資這個基本薪資這加拿大喔還有這個紐約州最低時薪2023年的時候5.4美元然後2024年上調至18美元喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12357.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12370.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
還有聯合國國際勞工組織報告外送員因為需要自付設備保險稅務因此至少應該為基本薪資的1.5倍這我給你參考一下這個國際上各個地方下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12372.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12399.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
基本上剛剛講到為什麼未來可能會越來越低因為兩大外送平台有可能要合併他現在是購這個他等於是已經併購了可是現在在公平會嘛對不對那不管他未來合不合併啦但即便喔如果未來有可能合併或不合併的情況之下其實現行雙方實質上能夠透過商業的這個整合做出準聯合行為外送員就會更沒有溢價能力了 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12400.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12422.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
那外送費可能會調得更低那這部分部長打算怎麼因應是就是因為有這個合併的衝擊他都會對消費者跟這一個外送人的權益產生影響所以我們已經要求公平會他在合併的過程一定要會我們勞動部的意見那麼我會親自帶領然後來反映意見是好謝謝部長所以我要講喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12423.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12447.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
我就想到你會這樣講但是你沒有說不要說未來有沒有合併的情況你現在要介入阿其實以Uber為例喔去年就已經差點發生平台片面將外送費改為0元的誇張情形未來市場如果獨佔後情況也只有更嚴重那就即便現在還沒有獨佔都已經有這樣的狀況他們是不是也應該要被保障喔這些外送員 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12448.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12471.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
所以無論部長你覺得應該要怎麼因應目前這個中央都沒有統一的專法只能夠靠地方的自治條例來約束可以說是各吹各的調而且其實這個情況還更有可能發生在臺北和新北跨區外送卻受到不同的自治的規則約束的狀況部長覺得這樣合理嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12476.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12503.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
這確實在各縣市的這樣子的一個狀況我們要有效來統合然後把這一個中央跨部會也不是只有縣市的問題其實還有我們中央跨部會的整合要處理所以這個外送專法能不能規範到我們整個中央相關的主管機關都一致的用這個專法來處理這個也是我們要考慮的因素因為平台的問題就出在它沒有一個主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12504.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12506.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
所以你說讓這個專法有效,所以代表你會支持要訂定這個專法對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12524.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12541.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我覺得我們可以來討論好不好委員 我支持你們關懷外送員的權益的這樣子的努力啦 這個是非常值得肯定的請部長可不可以明白的宣誓立場 然後也告訴我國進15萬的外送員 你知不支持透過訂專法讓全國統一 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12544.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12545.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
這些內容都是我們要努力的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12567.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12592.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
哇你這個部長你這樣子沒有回答問題啊你還是要講你支不支持訂定專法我們支持這樣的討論方向沒有細節你覺得怎麼做更好這個是可以未來一條一條來討論的可是你必須表明的立場你要跟這個所有人講你要表明立場你支不支持我們所有這個推動外送員專法這個部分我們支持這樣的討論方向啊支持討論方向還是支持推動外送員專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12593.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12617.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
就是我認為推動外送人專法要能夠有效整合啦 這個這是前提 這還有 這有前提啦那你所謂的整合是哪幾個部分的整合?對 因為一個專法有時候只有一個主管機關啦 你能不能 就是我勞動部管的能不能規範到公平會跟交通部那邊 這是一個大問題所以我們要來討論 如果你有 可以明白宣示你的立場 這件事情就可以往上行 可以跨部會的整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12617.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12640.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
因為你這邊我特別勞動部就是外送員專法嘛我剛剛也把所有數據算出來很清楚喔這個外送員現在面臨的狀況是什麼所以也希望部長可以理解還是真的可以理解到他們現在的情況是很需要我們中央可以統一的專法來幫他們其實委員我們跟他們非常密切的保持聯絡5月29號甚至還要推動他們勞資雙方談判呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12643.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12661 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
另外一個問題,我是想要問yes or no,你要不要支持推動外送員專法?我說我支持這樣的討論方向,那我們一起來努力好嗎?哇,部長你不能用這句話一直打太極啊。部長拜託你講一下,那我可不可以定調你並沒有支持要推動外送員專法? |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12662.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12663.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
我們可以再來討論怎麼創造多引好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12696.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12699.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
謝謝謝謝廖偉祥發言接下來請吳春成委員發言有請何部長請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12711.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12713.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
整個剛才在提到的下一個缺工的問題只是冰山之一角 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12739.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12761.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
其實深層的是臺灣的人口結構的問題高齡化、少子化但是政府並沒有完善的配套措施所以現在有點爛攤子是勞動部在收爛攤子現在政府對於這個高齡化只有福利 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12762.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12787.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
所以幾乎的費用都到衛福部去了到衛福部80%其他部門就是只要遇到高齡就視而不見與我無關但是我在看整個面對未來這可能會成為人口一半的高齡社會倒三角形勞動部反而是要負擔主責 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12789.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12789.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
是﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12809.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12831.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
有對於這個人口未來要勞動部要扮演的角色你不是配合者你可能要變成主導者要把這個棒子搶回來這個是大家都在擔心的事情撫養比我們現在這個高齡者就是當分子嘛被撫養的然後工作的人口當分母嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12832.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12856.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
因為少子化,所以分母就越來越小。因為高齡化,所以分子就越來越大。目前是4比1,4個撫養一個。到2040年會變成2比1,兩個撫養一個。到2057年會1比1。接下來分子就會大於分母。這叫崩潰的時代。那年輕人都被壓垮了,都沒未來了啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12858.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12876.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那怎麼解決我現在沒有看到我沒有看到政府針對這樣的大家學者都知道這個是大家都知道的事情我沒有看到有什麼解決那我在提倘的壯時代其實為這個而來怎麼解決就是把分子拉下來當分母把分子壯起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12878.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12892.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
因為他繼續成為一個生產者 成為一個勞動者 然後消費者 有活躍的第三人生 因為現在人都很長壽 我們現在搞了臥床八年 人家北歐國家目標是兩週 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12894.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12917.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
也就是說以未來的老人只有兩週當老人其他的時間都叫撞世代啦繼續可以勞動可以生產可以消費那這樣子的分母就很強壯起來這撞台灣嘛台灣才會強壯起來嘛而且世代會共融所以要解決這個問題我們現在最大的問題都是引法思維 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12918.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12933.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
政府這幾年各部門當中包括行政院對高齡什麼科技弄了都把只要你過了60歲以後就沒有政策只剩下一個政策叫長照政策養生養病養老但是這些人會有30年未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12936.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12965.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
在沙漠裡面所以我們要把它翻轉成為壯世代那有時間我再跟部長再找時間那壯世代呢我在這個立法院也成立了壯世代政策產業發展促進會那非常深大的有63個立委加入跨黨派的是這個議題是不分黨派的我們都要一起支持所以也請勞動部你們如果要推動這個政策我們可以很多的各部會都來支持你 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12968.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12994.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
然後勞動部目前有推了這項55plus壯士代的就業促進措施還有5050壯士代的就業網絡合作計畫那我看到這個各地的分署都在積極來推動這兩件事情但是除了這兩件事情可能要再更深化一點所以那個巡迴部長很可愛他說他要做壯士代代言人 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12995.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12996.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
接下來﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13015.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13030.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
那另外一個勞基法的修訂那我也跟那個王振旭委員我們聯合修訂了這個勞基法54條讓65歲以後不是強制退休而是可以透過勞資的協議當中得延長值 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13034.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13054.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
希望部長支持而且勞基法對於退休的規定現在實在是太沒人性了也不敢太早退休然後退休也不行退休以後要回來也很困難導致於這些人龐大的人力我們平均退休60歲60歲現在有600萬人卡在這裡卡在耗損的整個國力 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13060.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13061.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
這個要靠勞基法、靠勞動部來釋放這些勞動力 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13065.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13093.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
好那精進所以不是只有剛才那兩頁那個是究極目前的缺工問題當然更深化的就是要請部長繼續的在勞動部來雇主留用65歲要有獎勵措施要有誘因那同時對勞工也要有誘因要有鼓勵各種的措施要提出來然後這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13094.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13113.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
對於現在缺工的行業當中要積極的來引導這個中高齡的就業協助的各種的措施﹖包括宣傳各種的企業的講座各種的方面那第三個要排除重返職場的困境那事實上這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13115.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13131.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
包括個人、很多的這種培訓、個人的生涯的規劃很多人到了50歲以後就抱著代退了代退的、耗損的心力所以像這一方面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13132.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13156.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
讓我們的勞動力能夠多方面的開發啦可以多方面的開發那最重要的還是勞基法還有中高齡的這個就業促進法那這個最好能夠改名字叫做壯士代就業促進法既然那個因為中高齡是45歲就叫中高齡這個真的有點太離譜啦出國念書回來都40歲然後45歲就開始輔導代退 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13159.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13164.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
謝謝吳春成委員發言在這邊做一下宣告我們中午不休息直到質詢結束再散會現在請楊瓊英委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13187.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13189.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
謝謝主席 每席想邀請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13193.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13221.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
委員好部長先恭喜你上任上任我最關心的就是我們勞保的基金我們看到2023年勞保基金大概負債13.4兆多比上一年度12.3兆多那是增加了將近7300億換句話說每一個人平均他的背的負債大概是56萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13222.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13247.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
那在這種情況之下我沒有看到往前推2020年金算負債是11.5兆那到目前為止因為每一任的部長都會說這個年金會要改革那您新官三任你針對這個議題你要怎麼樣做請教說明委員我剛剛大概已經都有回覆請說明是就是我們會持續進行撥補撥補就是改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13253.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13255.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
請你針對議題你現在是勞動部的部長你不是政治的宣傳者 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13282.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13285.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
怎麼說呢?你越撥撥啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13286.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13312.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
你負債越多欸所以你應該要以你勞動部部長的身份去討論我要怎麼樣讓我的勞工能夠安心我的基金能夠增加除了撥補之外還有什麼方法你要宣傳以前沒有以前沒有反而負債沒那麼多你現在負債越來越多你就你現在為什麼要換部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13314.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13343.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
就是因為前任的在執行的當中結果論的答案是不佳的所以你應該針對這個議題啊你怎麼來政治宣傳呢對嗎前座說明我跟委員報告我們波普這4年來勞保的基金水位已經創新高了現在是9941億過去而且是還包括了投資收益所以我們其實要進行開源的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13343.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13345.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
這是全國的共識嘛!你不能從勞工的身上去撥皮嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13366.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13366.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
我們現在用撥部的改革來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13395.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13397.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
接下來本席要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13419.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13419.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
委員會長 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13433.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13460.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
我本期做了一個統計數字會講話平均值我們是只有提高兩趴可是我們的通膨絕對不止這兩趴所以我號稱我們的地心是持續在下降持續在嚴肅的議題所以針對這個部分本期要請教因為我如果以三月份全體受僱的員工的這個部分平均是4.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13461.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13461.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
請出說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13481.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13493.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
當然委員 這個所謂這個加薪追不上通膨 這確實是存在的 這個我是很佩服您有觀察到這樣子的現象當然啦 這個通膨的問題是跨部會要去解決的啦 這我會來持續跟行政院反映 因為這牽涉到央行的政策 牽涉到我們整個跨部會的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13506.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13513.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
我也支持你要去跟上聯繫這也是我一直建議這個政府你不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13514.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13514.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
第三個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13544.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13566.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
大家都非常關心兩個外送平台要合併今天在我們經濟委員會我們的公交會公平會的這個主委他說了他認定因為目前這兩家平台是佔全國平台最多的他也認為這個是獨佔 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13570.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13584.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
會成立,獨佔會成立那因為這兩家是最大嘛商業我們要讚許他但是問題是他如果兩家併起來的時候他現在送送給公民會那公民會會不會同意有四大項第一個我們整個經濟體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13588.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13603.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
第二個會不會達到聯合行為的一個壟斷那現在兩家是最大而且公平會認為他是獨立最大那兩個都是獨立最大兩個加起來當然是巨數啊那所以這個聯合行為哇這個精髓就到了所以這個也是在他們事項在審查的項目之一這是剛剛我們在這個經濟委員會所討論接下來就你的問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13619.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13648.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
公平會的主委他說他會找你因為勞動部我要為我們外送平台外送員要請命外送員要怎麼辦所以這個剛剛我們在經濟委員會我問了公平會公平會主委也說外送平台的這個外送員他們的權益也會納在他們是否同意合併的條件之一我把這個備份告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13649.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13671.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
所以你必須要站在我們勞工的這個立場他會找你這個是也就是跨部會去討論所以到時候我建請我們部長你一定要堅持在我們勞工的這個立場權力的立場好不好這一點是非常非常的重要所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13671.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13699.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
我今天這三項的議題來跟你做討論我們發覺到現在少子化而且勞工這個老闆找不到工我們現在是缺工缺工你應該知道這個原因吧這個社會面向是缺工但是不要搞到無人可用的境界現在是缺工如果持續惡化下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13700.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13723.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
不要走到無人可用的這個境界所以中高年齡的勞工對我們來講是我們的寶貝啊這些沒有功勞又苦啦中高年齡的勞工是我們的寶貝我們要怎麼樣穩住他們我們要怎麼樣鼓勵我們的新娘我們的青年勞工他願意要加入這個陣容鞏固我們的中高年齡這個基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13730.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13756.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
的勞工鼓勵我們的青年勞工能夠加入這個社會才不會變成無緣可用的勞工市場啊對不對部長你頻頻的點頭也因為時間的關係我第三個功課我還是要您做功課你把剛才本席第三個議題中高年齡要怎麼穩固它怎麼鼓勵我們青年 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13757.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13765.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
那麼你也想寫書面資料給本席這三個議題我要你的書面資料結論到時候公平會 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13767.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13788.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
這個主委找你的時候你務必一定要站在我們外送平台的外送員的一個權益一定要鞏固住好不好好謝謝委員支持好謝謝楊瓊英委員那也請勞動部、楊委員所需要的資料會後再提供那接下來請陳培宇委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13795.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13819.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
好謝謝主席那有請勞動部長謝謝 請何部長部長無案第一次跟您在質詢台上討論非常的開心那我想要跟部長就直接切入其實我們一直在跟勞動部討論的就是友善的家庭政策如何讓勞工在這個情況下跟部長分享在2023年去年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13819.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13848.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
親子天下幾乎是台灣最重要的關於親子議題討論的民間公司的雜誌提到當大家接受問卷調查的時候表示什麼時候你會願意出來工作或是選擇工作的時候友善家庭對您的重要度所謂友善家庭指的是企業的相關勞動措施或是政府的相關勞動補助政策對於勞動的員工非常重要大家認為友善家庭非常重要將近七成 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13849.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13868.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
那所謂的友善家庭到底是什麼意思呢?雜誌上面說了一彈性工時65%企業設置零拖幼兒園47%第三個43%是居家上班確實我們看到來下一頁在勞動部今天的業務報告裡面我們很開心看到部長你有寫到 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13870.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13888.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
將協助勞僱雙方透過居家工作、彈性上下班還有協議調整工時的方式合理安排對勞工有利的最適工時這是在您的業務報告裡面我們非常認同但是我們我想我們彼此都知道另外一個很殘酷的現實臺灣中小企業居多 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13889.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13909.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
那中小企業如何去協助政府或是背負大家的期待那我想要跟部長分享我們目前在第一線看到的狀況目前的五六月其實在所有新聞裡面都有看到長病毒是高峰而一旦班上有長病毒的孩子就要停班停課我想這個部長你是清楚的而且有時候如果你是生了兩個小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13910.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13926.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
或者是A這個小孩剛剛停完7天就過幾天班上又來一個小孩然後於是這樣就一直往後延一直往後延我想這個情況大家都非常清楚所以在目前勞動部相關的所有政策裡面目前或是性供法裡面都只有寫到3歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13927.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13956.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
但是我們知道其實小孩在幼兒園階段一直到上小學前甚至其實看到更多的爸媽在告訴我們上小學後6歲到12歲也是很需要非常多所謂臨時的這種工時的調整啦或是居家上班啦或是彈性的工作狀況部長我們當然我剛說在業務報告裡面我們看到勞動部指導這件事情要往這裡走可是往6歲這件事情你覺得我們有沒有可能在未來的工作時日當中我們一起來努力推動這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13957.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13978.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13978.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13984.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
在前部長這個許民村部長的時候我們就也一直跟部長講這件事情甚至我們拜託許部長跟國營事業討論國營事業先試辦試辦的好處是可以收集企業的相關意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13995.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14006.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
當時我們看到目前我們看到勞動部給我們的回覆是說桃機財政部金管會評估可以配合事辦那後續要拜託部長這邊幫我們持續追蹤他們事辦後的狀況因為我再次強調他們的事辦絕對可以給予很多企業作為參考也可以給勞動部作為後續政策調整的參考看到部長點頭謝謝但是我們看到資料裡面呢台糖中油 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14022.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14042.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
臺電臺水回復說如果延長到6歲會增加輪班人力調度增加同仁的負擔會影響業務推動和為民服務的品質我要再次強調就算是國營企業我們當然也認同他們是有困難的這是非常殘酷的現實但是有沒有機會他們也可以再次 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14042.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14060.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14060.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14067.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
我會來跟這一些企業的實施狀況我親自來做一個檢視好嗎跟我們的這個業務單位同仁我們的處長其實他們大概推這個計畫示範已經有一段時間那麼我們當然如何讓企業能夠更願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14080.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14095.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
對,這有時候報德勸說啦或各方面的跨部會或跨部會的努力啦那我們之所以說從國營企業就是也許從部長您的角度去跟他們溝通會更為容易然後也可以讓他們的聲音如實的表達給勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14097.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14097.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14123.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14148.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
好謝謝陳培宇委員發言接下來請羅志強委員羅志強委員羅志強委員不在接下來請謝依鳳委員謝依鳳委員謝依鳳委員不在接下來請翁曉琳委員翁曉琳委員翁曉琳委員不在接下來請賴士寶委員賴士寶委員賴士寶委員不在接下來請蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員不在接下來請林國成委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14156.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14170.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
主席請部長請何部長還有另外老保及白局長來有沒有來有有有請白立正局長好部長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14171.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14196.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
真的看到你早上在打刑到現在其實立法院一直在藐視國會我看起來一點這個法一點用都沒有為什麼大家立法委員尊重部長部長尊重立法委員基本上都是在談你所以根本藐視國會的問題就沒有不存在的所以我們蠻期待啦我們蠻期待這個真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14199.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14220.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
部長跟立法委員彼此之間針對問題要相敬如賓我想沒有任何可以吵的因為部長也為老百姓做事立法委員也是為老百姓在做事所以我第一個還是要恭喜何部長因為我們大家知道你過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14223.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14241.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
確確實實你也是在整個勞工多少有參與當然看到你發布我們很高興一個恭喜另外一個就不忍心你跳入火坑來為勞工做事這兩者之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14242.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14269.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
我在想都是為勞工都是為勞工所以首先恭喜也有一點不忍但是最後還是要共同為勞工做事謝謝委員我今天要談有兩個問題第一個問題我要請教部長新人有新政那當然過去不管是陳菊也好不管是喜民村也好確確實實對勞工基於第一個尊重跟照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14270.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14288.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
好他照顧那我也要聽聽我們何部長對這個新職你最想推動跟最想做的事能不能用我的時間讓你跟全國的勞工說明你未來最重要要推動的什麼事 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14289.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14315.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
當然委員我其實早上也在業務報告有呈現當然對我來講真的很有榮幸有這個機會然後來為全國廣大的勞工朋友來盡一份心力那這也是我當年從事勞工運動的初衷到現在一如往昔不會變的那跟我委員的討論其實一直有提到我們這個所謂的勞保年改的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14316.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14337.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
那麼我也期待說透過我的努力我能讓全國的勞工朋友放心勞保絕對不會倒,勞保絕對不會破產目前的勞保是相對穩健的那麼這個我是各位委員我想我們都有討論過然後也是我想是全國的勞工朋友最大的期待啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14338.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14353.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
其實勞工真的要的不多啦以現在制度來講真的勞工還是體系政府但是我們勞工啊就是一點點保障他就心滿意足以現在的情況來講勞工基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14357.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14382.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
是求個安穩不希望重大的改變這一點我提供給我們何部長做一個政治判斷的一個參考那我現在要來談任何一個政策他要做成決定的時候要把前因後果要很了解這樣才不會誤判才不會誤判所以當然前一段時間一直在講 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14384.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14389.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
這個勞工非常每天工作按時繳錢到最後一天到晚報章雜誌就說勞保什麼時候要倒啊我記得好像十幾年前就要倒到現在還是沒有倒那這個是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14400.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14415.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
委員聳聽對勞工一點保障都沒有這一點我是覺得那我要請教我要請教到底真正虧損的部分是在臺灣省政府臺民地區的勞保局 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14416.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14437.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
那交給中央政府的時候在84年4月1號健保開始開辦把醫療撥給健保局的時候部長我要提供一個自信根本84年以後勞保是不虧損的希望你回去白警長你們去把這個原因找出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14437.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14460.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
真正虧損的地方是臺灣省政府匯率5.5一張保單可以住院可以保障這裡是真正虧損最多那這裡當然因為部長不曉得我要問問白局長到底臺灣省政府交給中央政府的時候你們那個時候有沒有盤點有沒有精算 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14463.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14483.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
委員好 跟委員這邊來做報告 在85年的6月的時候 那時候勞保局改制的時候 當時的勞保基金餘額是1700多億 那當時的確有精算 那因為費率像委員精算 我不是說你們精算 是臺灣省政府交給中央的時候 有沒有精算 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14484.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14505.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
跟委員做報告,當時因為勞保財務裡面有針對勞保局的整個資產跟基金都有做報告你也最後再接的啦我坦白跟你講根本沒有精算虧損多少錢你們完全不知道所以那個時候的執政當然現在國民黨也要負責任啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14506.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14527.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
你們現在當了政府以後你們當然要概括承受所以這一點當然責任都不能推但是我可以告訴你一個問題根本沒有精算虧多少錢都不知道所以到84年健保播出去以後你們那個時候的虧損的黑洞是非常大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14527.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14556.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
所以你們要把這個前因後果把它講清楚所以這個部分我想各黨執政過的都一定要負責任也不能說完全民進黨你現在你是執政黨你要來概括承受但是怎麼樣去交接怎麼樣去做決策勞工的權利是不能去損害的所以這點我要給何部長一個鼓勵也要把真相告訴你把這個查得清清楚楚黑洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14557.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14581.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
我坦白講我這個人講話憑良心也不是民進黨造成啦是日月累積勞保照顧勞工而造成可是要把問題找出來不能讓勞工覺得說我每天繳會啊你們又要叫我繳多要領少那過去是領少那個繳少領多所以造成這個問題把它分析出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14581.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14602.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
這樣才不會挫折對勞工我有乖乖的繳錢但是你們就不乖乖的給付這一點我希望何部長一定要跟院長講這些事實的真相所以這點我要代替勞工拜託我們何部長這個部分真相一定要把它理清楚好不好好謝謝林國成委員發言接下來請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14611.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14620.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
接下來請林黛樺委員、林黛樺委員、林黛樺委員不在。接下來請鄭振淺委員、鄭振淺委員、鄭振淺委員不在。接下來請陳瑩委員發言。好,謝謝趙委員。我們麻煩請何部長。請何部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14637.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14656.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
委員好部長好首先就很高興就是也要誇你一下有這個勇氣跟擔當來擔任勞動部部長這個重責大任這個職位那勞動政策呢他攸關全體國民的這個生活水準與健康安全也是我們國家經濟發展與這個國際競爭力 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14659.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14660.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
首先我有八個字要送給部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14675.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14695.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
偏聽則廢、兼聽則明所以在過去部長有擔任柯總召的辦公室主任以及八年行政院副秘書長的職務我也見證了這些歲月相信部長對於整個溝通協調很難有人可以能出其用 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14697.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14700.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
現在您擔任部長必須要做政策跟決定還有辯護可是問題的專業跟複雜往往都是牽一髮而動全身所以除了文官的意見建議部長未來也可以多聽事業單位跟工會的團體的意見再加上專家學者的意見再去思考問題應該要如何解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14721.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14739.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
那特別是涉及到這個勞動條件還有這個職安位的這個檢查的部分那我要舉一個例子就是在過去我曾經提醒就是說這個勞動條件是否具有這個限期改善的空間我們看一下簡報 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14741.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14761.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
這個部分在這個勞動檢查法25條裡面法有明定確實有改善的空間那我也特別請教過當過你們政務次長的法學教授他也認為是可以的而且這個勞基法第一條本法未規定者適用其他法律之規定也沒有說不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14762.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14786.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
那以前在地方執行的時候也都是有空間的但是自從你們的現任主密也就是過去的這個執安署的這個劉傳明前署長他搞了一個牢條大軍之後就變成抓到就要罰尤其是在這個一例一休的修法期間曾經有事業單位計算勞工薪資因為差了這個1.33元沒有辦法這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14790.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14813.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
就是除禁那沒有四捨五入差了幾塊錢就要被罰兩萬甚至還有官員沾沾自喜的來跟我們說我的記錄是這個差0.6元我也是跟他罰兩萬塊錢而且更可惡的在罰完之後並不代表勞工就可以領到他們應有的權益因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14814.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14829.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
你們就只管收這個罰款那雇主呢沒有支付給這個勞工加班費的部分你們實際上沒有真的很關心啊部長這件事情你是不是願意去了解看看看我講的到底是不是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14830.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14857.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
那我再舉一個例子喔就是職業災害勞工受傷之後呢面對雇主不聞不問那請問職安署呢你們能夠實質幫助到勞工什麼因為我這裡就這幾天我接到的最近接到的一個案例這是來自新竹的一位阿美族的這個原住民喔他是板磨工那他在工作的時候呢他眼睛受傷到現在視力還沒有恢復那 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14858.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14875.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
最近事情這個職災發生之後僱主是沒有通報的那竟然是這個職災勞工的親友自己去通報職災然後呢就被勞檢了嘛僱主被勞檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14876.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14903.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
指安署也是跳過勞檢法25條的改善期直接一共罰了僱主19萬然後就告訴我們這件事情已經結案了還沒完喔並且是請這個職災勞工自己去申請職災調查報告那如果僱主仍然不補償呢那就請這個職災勞工自己上法院去提告 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14904.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14921.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
因為僱主已經被你們職安署給罰了所以僱主認為說我本來要付給勞工的員領工資還有醫療補償等等就不再給付了部長你們職安署原來是在跟這些職債勞工搶錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14924.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14942.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
這很奇怪欸就完全我覺得是很不像話的一件事情喔因為我也很好奇周署長你上任已經邁入第8年了齁那這將近8年來到底這些你為了這些就是說權益受損的這些勞工齁你們實質上幫他們討回了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14946.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14963.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
為什麼不根據這個調查報告的結果主動給予必要的協助?如果職災調查報告只是為了行政上的結案或者是為了要做裁罰的需要而不是為了職災勞工權益的保障這樣的報告到底有什麼意義? |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14965.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14973.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
那你們這個調查報告全部都是封在職安署的這個藏金格裡面喔那負責職災己負的這個勞保局你們看不到嘛那還有這個負責這個照顧職災勞工的法人他們也看不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14982.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14998.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
因為你們的系統是停留在恐龍時代那如果要看這個我覺得就是說調查報告起碼要跟這兩個單位要連線啊省得說你公文往返因為要發文才能調查報告嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14999.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15011.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
甚至說他們這兩個單位甚至我們辦公室能不能拿到調查報告我們都還要看那個州署長的臉色欸那如果給了是不是叫施捨那不給他就講說是個資啊你們都可以這樣講嘛所以部長你知道嗎在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15017.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15043.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
職業安全衛生法裡面的規範都是僱主責任那僱主他必須要提供這個安全衛生的環境還有這個教育訓練那提供安全的設備還有機具跟個人防護的設備那勞工有這個遵守的義務嘛那如果勞工沒有遵守僱主他也就是必須要做這個要這個安全衛生的管理那怎麼可以說發生職貸之後呢就可以不聞不問 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15045.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15073.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
職安署呢就是檢查完之後結果職安署完成了調查報告也跟著不聞不問了那連這個檢查報告也都不能提供所以只藏在他們自己職安署裡面部長這些都是會產生民怨的所以我今天特別再點出來您新上任真的這個問題很普遍常常在發生你真的可以好好去了解一下那我今天跟部長談的呢都是過去我在質詢的時候有提過有遇到的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15074.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15090.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
因為本期是原住民選出的立法委員原住民的勞工實際就業的人數其實是超過26萬人我們總共大概有50多萬人我們實際就有26萬人但是實際加入勞保的人數大概只有18萬人左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15091.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15118.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
那而且這個原住民勞工具有這個三高一低的現象就是職災高、高職災然後非典型的就業也高然後失業率也高唯一低的就是我們的薪資那這些資料可以從這個原住民就業調查報告還有以及你們的這個職災統計的數據就可以知道那為了解決這些問題我提供我的提案就是是不是可以用這個救安基金的這個補助聘用原住民的雇主 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15119.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15126.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
我剛剛講的這些錢不是直接進到雇主的口袋這些錢是最後最後都會全部進入勞工的口袋的幾副 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15140.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15157.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
我覺得這個觀念大家要弄清楚包括這些審議委員大家要弄清楚這些錢最後都是要進入我們原住民勞工的口袋的脊腹勞保局有精算過那費用大概要3億那而且造成這個效益包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15158.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15187.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
老保投保人數的增加保費收入也增加那這些人呢他變成了正式的勞工所以呢非典就業的比例他就降低了那因為成為正式的員工所以他的薪資的資料他就更完整了所得稅的預期也會增加所以呢這個可以說是這個編輯效益更好的結果那但是呢因為有些人故意去提公平性的問題齁而不支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15187.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15202.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
那我要請教囉在這邊,因為救安基金他不就是要促進這個國民就業嗎?那我們對於這個高齡啊、婦女啊、那育嬰留職停薪、職災預防、青少年不是都有利用救安基金來穩定就業嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15204.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15231.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
那這些族群我剛剛點到這些族群的共通點就是他們都是弱勢而原住民的勞工就是在最底層最基層的這些勞動力也更是弱勢中的弱勢他們就很難被協助到嘛所以希望部長可以好好再重新這個思考這個問題請原住民的勞工就是讓原住民我們勞工這個三高一低的這個三高的問題可以因此得到解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15232.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15253.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
最後期許就是說部長可以成為勞工最有感的勞動部長謝謝委員我剛剛講那麼多部長簡短回應一下好不好委員你提的那個治安署的問題我回去會馬上要求這個資料是應該要內部至少要能夠互相串接的 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15254.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15283.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
對,然後內部因為治安署跟植栽中心其實那都是一個大家都在做同樣的事情那應該至少資料互相分享對,以後就不要在那邊發文然後還要看你們說同不同意這樣這我回去我們會內部檢討好嗎對,那提案的部分我剛剛講的最重要的概念是這個錢最後都是要進對,然後那個勞保的主要是救援基金能不能符合去補助原民勞保費用這確實因為有些人說要救保法 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15284.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15312.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
救保法本身也有它的限制啦因為我覺得在前面齁那個救安基金因為部長你剛上任我們還沒有實質跟辦公室齁來實質討論這個問題那我覺得有些資訊可能你前面得到的資訊也未必是完整或者是正確的那我想這個過程當中還有一些我們需要再溝通的部分沒有關係就是救安基金的這個部分我們再來內部來討論看看好嗎好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15314.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15316.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
好,謝謝陳銀委員接下來請劉建國委員發言好,謝謝主席,有請何部長請何部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15339.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15350.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
委員好部長好先跟你恭喜你有信心你有信心我就有信心這句話我不曉得怎麼答覆你 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15353.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15371.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
我的信心是你絕對會做得比許前部長更久因為他是在勞動部創下這個在任最久的部長所以我有信心那你有沒有信心?要看質量啦不要說要看我有信心你就有信心我有信心啦謝謝謝謝謝謝委員支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15373.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15397.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
我想不是做廠還是要做為勞工更多這個良善的勞動環境提高他們更好的這樣的一個權利我想這是應該部長來最主要的一個目標所以就沒有蜜月期了既然沒有蜜月期我就直接有一些要來做無縫接軌來承接許前部長的慰禁 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15398.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15406.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
相關的一些事情像這我特別來在這個委員會質詢許前部長就是提到台灣的8.5萬的失聯勞工那這個議題許部長可以交接嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15412.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15438.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
其實這是一個長久的問題其實在行政院也有跟他有一起討論過其實應該是行政院要我們整個跨部會要來統合處理這個問題這樣子所以其實他一定是先是到跨部會那之前你又貴為是秘書長所以這個事情應該要落職長八點多萬應該不值了一直在攀升這會有國安的問題所以連國安都要來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15442.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15443.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
我簡單舉一個例子還有很多很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15458.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15485.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
然後我們針對這8.5萬的失聯移工全部是仰賴移民署的五百多位的這些專精隊的辛苦的同仁這根本實在不符合比例原則然後在2月﹐今年的2月16台灣及印度要來用已經用了視訊來簽署這個勞務合作然後未來就是台灣的移工引進這項業務部長也應該要承接起來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15486.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15503.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
我們這邊一直要去提到就是說當我們已經有超過8.5萬的這個10年的移工然後現在在印度的印度移工那破口會不會更大然後相對的國安相對的問題會不會要接受更大更嚴峻的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15505.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15524.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
對,這一定要列入考慮啦,因為台印的MOU其實現在還要立院審查事實上還沒有往下談呢因為委員因為我們必須經過立院的審查之後我們才能往下走然後才會觸及要多少人然後那個安全機制要怎麼把關等等這些的我們一定會把它列入這個談判的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15526.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15545.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
OK,但是我還是建議的齁,就是一定的比例引進外勞非常重要啦,一定的比例,現在這個你一定要去做一個通訪,要控管啦,對,那不,勞動部在4月26日有特別發布一個新聞稿,那表示要修修復活法嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15545.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15571.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
要加重僱用非法移工的僱主所以我在這邊要特別要求部長針對這次修法徹底去盤點相關的這樣的一個機制不要再讓私人的移工持續擴大不只如此也不能只有在仰賴500多位的移民署的專勤隊的人員所以這個就新部長要接受新挑戰對,其實跟委員報告我們的外勞管理從早年的20幾萬人到現在快100萬人了 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15574.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15595.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
對,那麼我們的勞動力發展署其實也面臨同樣的困境就是它用很少的人然後來管這麼龐大的移工然後而這又不是只有勞動力發展署一個單位能夠承擔的問題因為它已經是一個小社會了對,它有它的方方面面的那個問題所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15597.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15614.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
就業服務法說真的他必須全盤檢視而且可能還要大調整這樣子這個我覺得是我上任以後也是非常重要的一個努力的工作所以這個事情就要成為部長剛上任的重中之重的議題是是是有有有對我已經請發言署開始來處理了對我們已經開始往這個方向來看怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15621.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15649.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
能夠是不是機關的調整上面有政治報告跟移民署的整合對等等各方面我們也必須跟行政院報告這樣因為我們去年很多的很多相關的機關都都升級起來而且有過大力上的補充嘛對不對那勞動部如果到現在要面對這個事情然後只有專靠移民署還有我們文化署在做處理的話絕對緩不濟急真的是捉襟見蟲好所以就邀請部長把這個事情列為重中之重來因應嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15650.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15674.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
另外一件事情就是說我們知道去年發生這個卡凱案然後也特別在這個地方去凸顯社工師的嚴重缺工問題嘛衛生部在去年統計全國22個縣市社工需求將近4200人但是監控人數差不多3700左右監控率不到9成啦尤其新北市的需求量最高監控率只有7成1 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15675.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15702.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
那未來5年台灣的社工需要是4185人左右然後現在每年願意投入社工師的能力是685結果5年之後他還是還是不足啦甚至於不到9成了喔這個可以精算一下那因為目前的人力不足所以讓社工師陷入到山高高風險、高案量、高壓力和山缺、缺乏督導合作資源在這種惡劣的工作環境中勞動部有公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15703.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15723.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
跟我們勞動部有關係的就是外國人從事就業服務法第46條第1項第1款至第6款工作資格及審查標準的修正草案昨天在經濟委會3個委員才聯席就外國專業人才的攬柴9流的這計畫我特別跟國會副主委當昨天是副主委來備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15727.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15736.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
我跟他講說我們很多地方必須要去做修正我們看到相關的這樣的一個機制我們這個目標是沒辦法達成那國會主委現在去當秘書長我想這個事情他必須要統籌但是站在勞動部這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15743.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15761.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
我們在這個條文將施工師納入這個條文這個修正的標準審查標準跟這個工作資格我已經把施工師納入進去然後也在這個本月的2月就已經公告14天了所以已經過了預告期部長應該有掌握嘛OK |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15764.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15793.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
但是國內的社會團體也都非常歡迎有外籍的社工師加入尤其臺灣就學的喬外生他有過去在臺灣讀完相關的社工學系然後也取得社工師資格卻一直到目前為止無法在臺灣的社工領域裡面去就業這是很矛盾也非常可惜一件事情既然現在有這樣突破我就請部長可能要加緊腳步了盡速的完成這個辦法的修正以及公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15794.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15807.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
那更多的有呼籲這個資格的僑外生還有外籍人士可以投入到臺灣社公司的行列所以我特別要求部長好沒問題我們一個月內一定做得到好謝謝好謝謝那再請部長看這個看這兩張表這部長還不曉得齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15812.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15838.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
司法院不足人數2已進入人數11法庭人數13宜蘭我看我都講中央單位嘛這個全部都是公家單位然後有國家環境研究院不足人數1已進入人數3新竹某個國民小學不足人數1已進入人數4還有我們的少年家事法庭還有這個差到最多的國軍高雄總醫院護生民眾診療服務處 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15840.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15868.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
已見到的是...對不起確實都是一啦二左右那右邊是民間的公司中鋼中鋼往往都排在第一名不足19中頂18還有這個關寶科技12新宇航空10還有偽創資通訊偽創是不是那個AI那一家上市那一家對不對現在通常叫AI嘛他這個不AI了 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15869.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15893.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
不足9還不足9齊機還有高通半導體應該在這邊總共有多少總共有1391家上市上歸一大堆部長你知道我提供這個資料是什麼嗎就是身障勞工未禁用足額的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15895.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15915.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
公佈門一到二月就多達13個單位就左邊這個資料然後在民間的企業就高達1391家我這個後會議點總共35頁然後實際上我已經讓主委這些主委的職缺到目前為止將近2000人 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15917.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15930.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
將近2000人這就很奇怪了莊綱也排第一好像永久他都排第一然後相關的這些上市櫃的公司股票一直漲身上朋友一直不補這沒道理啊我們當然有 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15934.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15956.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
有華哲嘛,但是因為股票漲了,公司賺錢了,會看這個樣子,所以繳錢就免聘了嗎?這真的沒有道理啊,我等一下會把資本資料給部長做參考。你看將近還有2000個這些身障的職缺,這講不過去啦,然後中鋼為什麼一直排第一名? |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15957.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15958.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
總管股票沒有漲嗎?接肉應該是有囉我記得接肉應該是有喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15976.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16004.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
他可能沒有揭露在那個永續報告書裡面吧對他沒有列為永續報告書項目啦我們現在就是要求我們現在就是準備把一系列勞權的事項跟金管會協商要求他列入那個勞權就是那個SDGS的那一個報告裡面這樣子這樣就可以造成他們一點社會壓力啦因為其實台灣的上市跟企業長久以來也沒有被很要求的社會企業責任啦對所以這個確實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16005.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16029.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
必須要檢討的那也是要跨部會處理我們跨傳署有對外表示說有持續在改善中但是部長可以看厚厚這一疊一千三百多兩千個名額然後我希望部長就新冠散熱三八火如果在你的上任沒多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16030.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16058.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
的時間裡面可以讓這些民間還有我們公立單位趕快把這些身障的聯絡把它補足我想這是一個對於台灣社會非常很有交代這件事情然後也是鼓勵身障朋友讓他們有一個這樣的一個工作的機會不只如此其實每次在問這個事情的時候大致上都會講因為某一個公司某一個公立單位就講說就退休了 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16059.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16075.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
退休之後就沒有人來補啊很奇怪啊為什麼都不是退休之前準備要退休之前就開始來做這些動作所以這個交代不過去的齁那另外有些單位你像中鋼他一定會講說我這個單位根本齁就沒有辦法齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16076.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16087.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
讓這些身障的朋友來到這個工作環境裡面這個是推託支持我想盡用你看在之前有個企業他想用盡用這個視障按摩師為正式員工然後專門開一個按摩部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16091.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16114.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
替工作壓力緊張的員工來按摩紓壓營造良好的職場環境這是一個案例啦不只這個案例應該有很多案例我相信勞動部如果說求一下就可以把相關的這個有良也就是說對願意來照顧這些生產朋友然後也願意符合我們相關的規定的好的企業我覺得我們應該去獎勵嘛對對對我們要表揚願意用的企業也要表揚他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16119.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16137.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
讓他們這樣的作為可以散發出去讓各行各業知道人家為什麼可以這樣做你們為什麼做不到為什麼到現在還沒有辦法禁用到主額就交代不過去嗎我相信要用更好的方式來做處理好不好部長 這個是不是一個月內來規劃啦絕對可以來做啦 對不對如果短時間內 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16143.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16169.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
現在就有在表揚金展獎我們邀請委員來一起好嗎不是不是不是你沒有邀請我我是覺得我是覺得不只是表揚應該是對這些到現在不足19人18人13人10人很多對這些單位應該要要怎麼樣來做一個加強的督導加強的要求對2000個員額 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16174.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16179.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
好不好,請部長這一個月可以規劃啦,完成,好謝謝主席,謝謝部長,謝謝好,謝謝劉建國委員的發言陳映委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16193.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16221.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
主席是這樣子我在這邊要具體建議跟要求啦因為像我們在質詢有時候像剛剛我正在講一個很重要的概念很認真在解釋的時候結果那個保險司的司長一直在在那個部長的耳朵旁邊一直講講講講很久那我講什麼我不知道部長到底是聽到我的還是聽到你的我只知道我講完之後部長回了一句結果是錯誤的答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16223.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16246.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
你這樣沒有讓部長你自己沒有注意聽我的質詢然後你也干擾部長沒有讓他聽我的質詢然後你就沒有辦法理解我們這邊的這個概念基礎是怎麼樣結果還給這個部長錯誤的訊息為什麼這個救安基金就不能用於保費過去也有一些案例啊那難道是因為族群的關係嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16250.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16272.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
我想我現在沒有要部長回答那我也歡迎部長就是我們後續再找時間再來討論這個問題但是我還是要提醒各位你沒有給部長打pass沒有關係但是委員在講的時候你要給答案你要不要遞紙條還是你要不要簡短講重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16273.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16299.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
哪有佔據全部的時間都沒有在聽委員的質詢你這樣是干擾部長在聽欸而且根據國民黨現在提出這個國民黨民眾黨提出的版本我們國會質詢行使法第25條47條48條是很有可能會通過的那你這樣不等於也是藐視國會嗎是要被罰款還是要到最後有可能還被抓去關我是在這裡鄭重的提醒謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16300.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16309.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
好謝謝陳英委員那我在這邊是請未來如果部長在上面備詢的話那所有的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16310.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16335.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
我們所有的同仁就是在旁邊協助那一方面也請這個在旁邊協助的同仁不要干擾到那個委員的這個發言、質詢因為有時候你在旁邊發言的話其實部長他可能也分心了沒辦法聽到委員到底在問什麼問題那這一點再請勞動部這邊再注意一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16335.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16363.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
好,那今天本日會議巡打全部結束委員楊耀、邱振鈞、牛許廷、李燕秀、羅志強、翁曉林所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報現在做以下決定報告及巡打完畢委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定本日會議到此結束現在散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16368.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16369.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
獲得獲得獲得獲得 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16392.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16393.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
我真的不看都不行去洗個手吧 |