| IVOD_ID |
159382 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159382 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-19T11:48:36+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-19T12:05:24+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:48 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8d8da86eec6b25b858b91ae456b4c0df39fe1519e09d1f6fdee5d615e4ae620bb057e84e5f10c5cb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:48:36 - 12:05:24 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算決議有關勞動部預算凍結報告案19案。【報告事項】【如經復議則不予處理】
三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於勞動部主管部分。
【3月17日、19日及20日三天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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30.3 |
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好 謝謝主席現在還不到12點 已經在發送便當了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
41.552 |
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是不是部長因為從委員當部長瘦了瘦很多然後還是部長要靠藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
69.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
因為剛剛有蘇青委員特別講的因為蘇醫師是蘇青也是醫師嘛所以我是覺得今天部長創造很多的關鍵字延節瘦了 靠藥然後行政院是胖子行政院是胖子所以行政院的預算特別多所以要瘦身把行政院比喻成胖子這有沒有歧視問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
99.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那胖子就一定不健康嗎瘦身之後就一定會健康嗎我沒有看到部長有積極的回應部長請你上來好不好你是不是因為瘦了精神狀況有問題但這樣的比喻真的比喻有點奇怪嘛你不覺得嗎今天如果說胖子來引誉比喻行政院的這個預算的規模然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
100.449 |
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121.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這種邏輯是什麼?我實在不太清楚跟立委說明然後如果行政院預算是比較多然後來營育胖子那代表是胖子的脂肪比較多把行政院預算比喻胖子的脂肪然後瘦身之後會比較健康那站在行政院議員的一個部會首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
126.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
145.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
對這事情怎麼沒有做一個積極的回應我覺得這是有問題喔大總統要打造健康台灣我跟各位比喻一下啦健康兩個字這麼簡單嗎健康不需要付出成本嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
146.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
161.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
事實上你不要顧賺錢啦,你不要顧上班啦,你身體健康要顧好啦,都用嘴說的,這樣就健康了嗎?你可不可以跟各位說,叫那些顧健康的人去顧自己,自己身體要顧到該量工啦? |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
162.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
190.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
所以健康是要付出成本的嘛對不對是當你勞動部增加預算的時候比往前年度增加預算的時候我有沒有聽到你們講出為什麼你比往前年度增加這些預算那你增加這些預算是要做什麼現在部長到任如果相關預算的增加有相關的正式對勞工有利對勞工是正面的我們被刪了我們被動了我們就應該去捍衛我們就該講得清清楚楚啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
191.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
216.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
怎麼人家以綠行政的預算增加了變胖了他就必須要該瘦身這樣會比較健康怎麼沒有聽到你們去做相關的應該去捍衛去表達你們要執行的這個預算的正當性而且不應該被草率的被刪被凍啊況且說被凍一定可以解凍誰說的算 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
218.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
225.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
誰說的算然後要你們提出相關的追加減你們不提出那你們的回應是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
226.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
252.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
當然透過互議是一個行政的各部會大家一起來不需要分辨別的在各個委員會來做這樣的事情處理但是另外一個反之當你真的有相關的政事你必須要去推動的時候你當然在委員會委員會是委員會主義啊你要去捍衛啊你要講啊你如果國民黨召委願意讓我們快速的排進我當然我這個部會我先來發動啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
254.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
264.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那蔣同委員你要不要負責?你要不要協助?你要不要處理?你要不要回到你們黨團?確定之後你才在這個委員會講說你們為什麼不送來?但我沒聽到你們幾天回應這個事情啊我沒聽到你們講這個慷慨啊我會覺得我們在地方聽到很多人民百姓看到預算被刪的如此的離譜 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
283.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
看到昨天監察院的副院長以前親民黨重要的份子李鴻鈞副座都已經出來講了連監察院都已經動彈不得了甚至很多監察人員都必須從口袋掏錢出來才有辦法應付一般的相關事務啊都要出來講話啊都要遇到啊立法院是一個定制度的地方啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
309.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
316.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
但是一直在破壞制度這國家怎麼會正常立法院不正常 台灣怎麼會正常那我希望官員要正常一點吧官員要如何正常新北市在勞動部勞發署發生了霸凌的時候新北市的勞動局跑來勞發署要勞檢可以嗎可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
336.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
349.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
老幫手怎麼回應老幫手怎麼處理昨天台北市的勞動局跑來立法院勞檢某個委員的辦公室可以嗎當然有霸凌的事件當然有什麼樣奇怪的事件我覺得我樂觀其成但是勞檢完之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
360.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
375.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
他到底要對誰做出相關的這些處分是針對立法院還是針對那個委員因為立法院的錢這個助理的薪資是從立法院撥下去的不然這兩件事情你簡單對我做一個回應好不好好 第一個事情是 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
385.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
400.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那個我們沒有辦法接受把行政院預算的增加形容成胖子行政院為什麼他的預算的增加是因為這幾年我們的經濟成長包括稅收的增加也包括我們想要做的事情增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
401.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
421.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
包括剛才在講到的健康台灣或者是想要照顧的人民相關的權益增加我們也覺得現在是有財政餘力來做這件事情才增加並不是只要增加就會形容成胖子就該瘦身沒有這件事情因為現在很多地方政府其實他們的預算也是增加的但並不會因為說你只要預算增加就一定必須被砍這個在剛剛的時候其實我有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
425.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
439.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個預算的審查最重要的事情其實是要看科目你的三檢跟監督到底有沒有道理不是只要這個預算增加就必須要看我想這部分沒有辦法接受這是第一點第二點是關於剛剛委員說剛剛委員提到說這個相關的勞檢單位我們剛剛其實有說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
446.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
461.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我認為其實應該要在兼顧這個我們勞檢要執行的精神跟尊重立法院的這兩個目的之下我們願意來跟立法院討論這些相關的機制包括假設如果要做檢查的機制的話該怎麼進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
463.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
489.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
前面那段剛剛部長也有答覆我也有在主持我有聽到但是我還是覺得力道跟強度部長應該可以再加強這第一點那第二點我特別剛剛會引譽當時的新北市勞動局對勞發署發動這個勞檢然後昨天又有這個台北市的勞工局來對立院的這個國會辦公室來做勞檢基本上我們也在反對但是權責勒權責勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
493.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
505.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我要強調的是全職就像2016年2016年在立法院就發生讓議事人員不斷電的情況之下有過勞送醫的案例北市勞動局當時就到我們立法院來要做勞遣 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
506.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
525.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
但是另外一個意思就是說不適合啊不適用勞基華嘛對不對好今天才七天假啦我又有聽到部長的講的一段話畢竟你是行政院的議員所以當然主管機關是在內政部那你朝向可以正向的來做討論嘛這很好我們勞工有職安法 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
526.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
538.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那工人員有什麼話2012年發生了一次我們在今年1月21號又發生了一次從凌晨5點24分的畫面各位可以看一下1月20號開會這全部都是工人員我們未還我們未還這一組又是最後的一定要等到5點應該是可能12點就要stand by了可能進早然後等到5點24分他們才可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
553.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
578.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
等個議會時間ending完之後他們才可以離開然後離開完之後這已經足足幾個小時你可以看的齁足足從1月23號的10點開會到1月5點40分休息然後1月21號的1點又馬上開會這個中間沒有包含打卡沒有包含休息沒有包含事後的相關資料的準備事前的資料準備然後又馬上接續開會我覺得我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
582.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
606.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我要請部長,因為我們職安法算是完善,但是公務人員他可能是什麼法律來做規範?就是這個公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法,簡稱安慰法,我們簡稱職安法。安慰辦法。對,但我們是法律嘛,他們是辦法。奇怪,對公務人員怎麼用這樣在處理?部長你有什麼看法? |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
608.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
631.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
現在確實是大家會有一些討論說公務員要不要適用治安法的問題在這個議題上面我們幾次的也跟考試院這邊去做確認確實現在考試院還是希望是來修訂他們的公務員保障法還有安慰辦法來去做公務員相關權益的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
631.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
655.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
目前他們還是是希望用他們的這些法制的體系來去保障那就勞動部的角度來說所以也是在這狀況之下但我們現在主要責任法的修訂包括職場霸凌的專章還是真的一般職場的勞工但是這段這幾個月的時間我們也持續的跟考試院這邊在做意見的交換尤其是一些針對辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
656.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
669.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
包括霸凌認定啊包括霸凌相關機制處理我們也跟他們持續在討論之中可是目前他們確實還是認為公務員有一套公務員自己的法規的體系所以他們還是修保障法跟安慰辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
670.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
695.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我這邊有一個資料給部長做參考我是期待說就部長以處理七天假的角度看怎麼來協助這個事情保訓院現在在研裏要將安二法提升為法的位階做得到做不到還是一件事情但是他們目前研裏的方向是未來的上級單位每年至少一次對下級進行職業安全衛生檢查我想站在你們的專業你覺得這樣有嚇阻作用嗎要對立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
698.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
726.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
然後找哪個上級來對這個立法院來做檢查他們可能指的比較不是立法院他們指的應該是政府各個機關或機構啦尤其是有上級機關的機關或機構我現在就比喻立法院開會這種情況在這種樣態的情況之下要怎麼處理說實話這部分當然我們還是要去跟考試院來做來做這部分要跟考試院做討論啦但是確實在立法院裡面其實並不是都是公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
728.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
752.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
就是立法院裡面其實也有是有些是一般的勞工是沒有錯沒有錯但是多數是公務員是對不對對按比例來講嘛對啊那我說因為現在考試院在修訂公園保障法跟安慰辦法過程其實他們有找我們跟他們持續的討論因為在職安衛的專業上面確實是在我們職安署這邊是有過去比較多這樣子的專業所以我們提供這樣的專業給他們去做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
754.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
769.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個是請部長來協助另外可能要請部長趕快來做相關的因應我們自己的這個勞警員有1033位的編制對不對但到目前為止好像一直空缺100多位就是一至兩成都沒辦法補足 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
771.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
791.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這是主要什麼原因?就是我們現在安全衛生背景理工的同仁比較容易離職那在離職部分當然產業科技的發展確實需要比較高科技的人或是有專業的人所以我們一直希望說能夠讓檢查員能夠支持久任留用所以我們部長也特別支持我們目前希望從 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
793.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
809.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
改善我們的檢查方式用科技的方式來做監督檢查跟我們的同仁久任的部分可以鼓勵從不同面向來做展開啦跟他們生鮮汁及那個植奶的發展受限有沒有關係跟委員報告確實我們這一群大概一千多人所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
810.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
824.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
就是從地方檢察機構檢察員科長到檢察機構的處長到治安署可能組長副署長到組長我們在這個圈子就是這樣子所以民間的科技廠哇我們去當安全管理師管理員就非常機會就非常大但是我還認為說我們這是對 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
827.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
842.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
對企業有幫助對事業有幫助的一個工作我們是期待說不管是成就上或者說是生意上我們再做更多的有沒有很大的改善空間嘛好比說爭取為正式的能源編制還是怎樣去改善這樣的一個環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
843.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
871.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
跟劉仁說我們其實也有希望盡量來跟人中來爭取高高人人的編制但是現在在我上任之後其實我們也提出一個勞檢人專業能力以及工作支持的提升方案那希望透過更多的智慧化或者是增加大家專業化的方式來支撐勞檢人讓勞檢人就以他的這個工作為榮那之前其實我們也爭取到其實每個月有5000塊或3000塊的這個風險的加急工作的加急那 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
872.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
896.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
沒有錯 現在勞警員的留任或我們要想辦法留住他們的專業這部分還是有待改善的空間這也是為什麼我們要提出這些勞警員的支持方案因為我到部裡面發現其實勞警員其實要面對很多事業單位的壓力其實這也是他們為什麼其實常常容易想要離職或者想要轉職一個很重要的原因所以我們怎麼樣給他們尊嚴跟包括在專業上面去全力的支持他們這是我們非常重視的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
897.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
911.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我要特別提到這個勞檢人員並非是正式的公務人員他在勞檢的場域過程裡面在執行相關的業務有視瓦性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
914.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
926.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好來請署長報告其實我們有大部分的檢討員是高考特考分發那你講的聘用的部分大概是我們勞動條件檢查人大概有325個所以我們聘用條例聘用了但聘用的部分也是經過我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
928.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
947.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
訓練考核跟年度的考機的審核所以他們工作表現我們做比較上位一些了解所以我們當然希望JP的聘用檢查員他有聘用檢查員升到聘用視察的聘用專業的聘用視察我們連那個他升升現在這系列我們考慮到了所以我們現在反而是聘用檢查員的流動率沒有相對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
948.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
962.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
高太多但是專業的部分有能力的人一定會挖走這個其實是我們公務機關不是只有這個演藍園的這個會有這樣的情況其實很多公務機關專業人士很容易被民間挖走這是看起來是這整體面向的問題啦所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
965.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
981.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
但是我要跟委員說當然民間或者是產業都會有這樣人力的需求但我們部裡面還是會全力做的是把勞檢員的待遇包括專業跟支持提升我覺得這還是不管外界的吸力有多大但這部分我們還是會全力來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
982.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1007.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
所以像任總繼續爭取嘛然後他的升遷然後他的發展我想這個應該還是要請部長跟署長多費一點心思來看怎麼處理好不好是不是可以一個月內給我們一個你們要整體的這樣的改善提升的計畫把這些人可以好好的留住保衛起作用計畫給我們做參考好謝謝好謝謝主席好謝謝下一位我們請陳培宇委員 |