| IVOD_ID |
159335 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159335 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-35-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-19T10:01:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-19T10:14:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8d8da86eec6b25b834dadd17d94c0def6ce92bacf16b99bf8962b2f3400241f649b407c8523db5195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王定宇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:01:16 - 10:14:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況暨「四年期國防總檢討」，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
麻煩部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
12.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
35.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
第一個我們看到昨天美國國務院他其實是大概近幾年來口氣最重的來批判中國解放軍在2月26號無預警的在屏東外海74公里的地方臨時突然的劃設一個實彈的操演區域他把聯合戰備警巡團轉做實彈軍演 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
37.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
59.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那其實在那一個禮拜我們看了一下資料2月19號共軍在台海進行聯合戰備警巡大概每一週都一次但是21號在第二島鏈塔斯曼海域也就是澳洲跟紐西蘭中間他們在那邊也是進行實戰軍演而且真的是在澳洲的大門口開了炮2月25號 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
62.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
80.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
共軍派出南部軍區的一個海軍支隊來到越南跟菲律賓之間的南海進行實彈演練那26號就突然間在高雄屏東外海40海里大概74公里的地方無預警的突然宣布了一個射擊訓練的場域等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
81.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
104.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那這是2月份大概從19號到26號發生的事情昨天3月18號不知道是約好的還是國際的共識之前那個操演是讓世界各國都予以譴責支持台海的和平穩定澳洲對中國也展示了一個抗議的態度但昨天18號國務院 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
107.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
126.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
重批中國做出的是個魯莽不負責任的動作而且支持台灣一切的自我防衛的措施瑞士更特別瑞士是一個永久中立國罕見到瑞士的外交部長外交部長發言就代表國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
127.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
144.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
他不僅表達譴責這樣的行為支持台海的和平穩定南海第一島鏈等地方的和平以外瑞士還表達說他們有把中國駐瑞士大使館的人叫來罵就表達他們的嚴正立場然後我們台灣的國防部在3月17號 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
146.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
165.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
大概這個是第二次的立即備戰操演去年12月其實有一次了立即備戰操演我看媒體寫都說這個禮拜是第一次應該是去年的12月21日左右是第一次那立即備戰操演本席是支持這個做法也就是當威脅方有可能由演轉戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
167.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
182.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那我們的陸海空軍就要有能力從平時轉為戰備轉為備戰狀態所以這一個3月17號部長在今年度有人說小汗光宣布了立即備戰操演我的問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
184.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
202.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
解放軍是不是有什麼徵後或者你們有什麼樣的情資見到什麼樣的危險徵後必須進行這樣子的嚇阻包含國際上力量部長可以說就說或者不清楚不清楚我們看到這個局勢那你宣布在3月17號開始立即備戰操演 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
205.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
226.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
是有什麼樣的情誌跟徵後嗎?3月17號到21號這個是屬於計畫性的備戰草原它是預定的?對那非計畫性的備戰草原就是如剛剛委員所提到如果它實施一個針對性的一個軍事草原的這個活動那我們會按照它的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
227.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
250.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
操演的強度,我們現在有一個灰色地帶應儲的一個地中高那我們就會想由總統下令之後我們就會進行一個立即備戰操演來做一個對應也就是說由指揮官下定這個他們操演的可能的狀況讓我們也立即做出回應來訓練我們的那個是由參謀本部直接來處理還是交給各作戰區 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
251.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
268.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
由總統下令然後各州安區層級以下要做立即陪戰朝延的一個動作那等於是把敵情也就是說解放軍的動作如果有針對性的我們會做對應的動作我們針對我們所獲得的這一些相關的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
269.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
296.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
秦先生所獲得的情誌然後由指揮官他自己去想定可能發生的一些情況他如何要進行因應這個部分做一個這樣子來強化他的一個一個實戰化的訓練這對我們國軍的戰力實戰化訓練是有幫助的目前舊國防部的監測狀況解放軍不管在人員物資各方面的動作上有沒有異狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
298.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
311.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
在禮拜一嘛就禮拜一嘛禮拜一他聯合戰備警巡那這個聯合戰備警巡當然首見的就是說他是在上午的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
312.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
331.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
從六點多開始實施過一次然後到下午的應該是兩點他又再實施一次那所以這個是一個比較首度看到的一個狀況所以當然我們剛好也在實施栗子集備戰草原所以可以剛好做相對應的動作全市或去定義他們的聯合戰備組決心的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
340.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
356.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個我們有看到這個中國的外交部好像有在回應這個這應該都是套好的吧就是說他問一個問題然後他就回答說因為國務院這個對於下架的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
357.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
385.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
不支持台獨的那個部分他認為是境外的勢力來所以他當然他們永遠都套好的啦但他把這個軍事動作詮釋為對G7對美國的一些外交的回應他的記者會當然很長啦有很多的問題那他特別有一題是說他的從事的這個操演 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
387.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
410.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
主要的針對是什麼?那一題他的回答是說他是針對美國他針對所以國務院18號也譴責他盧莽不負責任但是我現在回到這個國務院的回應也是第一次看到美國國務院這一次講的比較重用這個所謂明目張膽且不負責任的這個而且他後面多一個就是支持就全面支持台灣的自我防衛但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
411.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
436.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
剛才講的是政治外交上的定義我的意思是說他聯合戰備警巡罕見的變成上午一次凌晨一次下午一次在軍事上你們認為他在幹嘛我我們我們有各種可能的判斷那他這樣的一個兩次的聯合戰備警巡如果從這一次看起來的話應該他 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
440.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
459.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他特別外交部在回應的時候他講說這是一個軍事行動那事實上他是一個操演所以我認為他在現實的這個狀況之下現在這個狀況之下他能夠做到的程度是在這一個兩次的聯合戰備進行的情況之下加強他的這個強度來回應當下的這個形勢所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
467.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
488.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
當然還是不能夠掉以輕心啦不過看起來他一定要對這個相關現在的這個有關您剛剛提到的G7也好美日這個峰會所表達對台灣的知己也好還有這個美國國務院這個相關的動作也好他一定要做一些回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
496.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
510.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們現在所謂的軍審第一個軍法從來沒有停過陸海空軍刑法一直是在試用當中只是在馬政府時期把它改到一般的檢察官一般的法院去做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
512.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
534.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
部長我這樣詮釋沒有錯嘛軍閥沒有廢過啦人家說要恢復軍閥軍閥一直都在那裡就實體法它是一直是存在的那程序法它變成二元化了也就是說它平時移到一般司法機關暫時還要恢復那所以這個地方有一直在講說那為什麼要這樣這個是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
537.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
565.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
當然一直在質疑我啦那我要說明的就是說從我們國防部的立場來看的話我們要平時如果不打造一個軍事審判的一個制度的話就在那暫時的時候幾乎沒有辦法運作老闆娘部長我在這個委員會十年左右了從大概每一年我都會聽到不同黨派的委員呼籲把軍審制度恢復也就是用軍事檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
566.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
591.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
軍事審判來處理軍人這樣可以維持紀律 維持管理大概我們如果在這委員會時間夠久的話每一年都會聽到 也會看到一些提案那這一次我看賴清德總統提出來的第一個他是限縮限縮軍人涉犯國安 軍事犯罪才會採取軍事審判的程序那第二個呢 這個還要國會修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
592.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
615.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
要經過立法院修法那我看行政院長說這個修法呢一個月內會把他review那我們私底下討論過我看到那個一個月內要把所有配套的法要擬出來其實那個是很多很多套法比我們想像多太多因為很多新的犯罪樣態刑法的修改你要對接那個你們一個月內可以提出修法的計畫嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
617.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
642.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們會提出一個修法的綱要綱要就很難了 那個量很大所以其實限縮在軍人涉犯軍事犯罪 國安犯罪那這個原因也是來自於中國對台灣的滲透不管是共諜案 泄密案等等我們發現軍人背景的確實是他們鎖定的目標所以法律是用來維繫國家安全那也要經過國會的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
643.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
667.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那我這邊有兩個疑問邀請部長也許現在不用回答第一個我們當然希望提升軍法官軍檢的考選跟素質也就是軍事法官跟軍事檢察官我們在考選的制度那個都要經過考選部去考的考選的選考選之後的訓練養成希望他們有具備法律的素養 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
668.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
690.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
以及就是說軍人有軍人的專業法律人有法律人的專業一個軍人法律人他的專業哪邊應該著重這個在養成的時候可能要把那個中心定出來第二個建議是獨立性這個最難我們未來的軍法那個沈司長在這裡我們未來的軍法官要還在不在指揮鏈裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
694.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
714.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我想我們大家也討論過啦 已經事實上討論過很多次這個是一個不好討論的命題啊就是說我們希望軍事審判要獨立嘛就像一般審判 檢察官獨立作業 法官獨立審判但是軍法官如果在指揮鏈 有學長學弟 有長官部署 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
715.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
735.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以他就會變成是一個有外部人員加入的一個人事審議委員會他會被懷疑,我不是說一定,他會被懷疑會有外部的干擾嘛所以他的這個有關他的相關的這些生煎啊,烤雞啊,那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
737.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
756.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以你們現在還是沒有辦法回答說那未來的軍神有沒有在指揮鏈裡面我尊重好好研議這一題就是說我怎麼確保他的獨立性不會因為他在指揮鏈裡面要接受命令在判決在起訴上會受到 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
757.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
778.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
被操控的懷疑這一點可以很明確回答委員在這個審判這個部分不可能會在指揮鏈裡面法官不會法官不會檢察官是屬於檢查一體他是屬於行政權的一個部分他是一個外部獨立但是內部檢查一體我們就這樣來這個命題等你們剛要出來我們再好好討論謝謝部長的時間 謝謝趙偉 |