| IVOD_ID |
159314 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159314 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第5次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第5次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-18T17:18:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-18T17:48:48+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:30:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1468b0c2f72abc7f1690a3dd2e50483e192e6bfb57ea0be42a4a0420ebefc628455f0fb71571eecb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張智倫 |
| 委員發言時間 |
17:18:08 - 17:48:48 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第5次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。二、3月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、3月18日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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院長各位委員各位官員大家午安是有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選 |
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27.919 |
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54.169 |
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院長好院長再過兩個月賴總統跟您就即將就職滿週年那回顧去年113年度賴政府有三高這個院長跟您報告哪三高在113年的稅收新高是高達三兆7619億超增稅收新高稅收超增5283億 |
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57.431 |
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62.519 |
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114年度給政府的預算也是新高原本稅出編列3兆1325億三讀過的預算是2兆9249億 |
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所以跟院長報告你們是過去以來歷史上三高史上最高稅收超收稅高超徵最高也是預算最高的三高政府那政府收了這麼多人民的納稅錢人民也給了政府那麼多的預算 |
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我們今年可以看到萬物皆漲人民幣撥了好幾層的皮我們看到最近三年電價漲了40%台鐵的票價在今年的二月漲了26.8%客運業者國道客運漲了6%今年三月底水價也提出研議要調漲的報告 |
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| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
所以我不想講可是我是不是認為賴清德政府是不是現在變成了漲價總統左院長所帶領的是三高預算新高的內閣我是不是可以請教我看到這樣的資料我非常的納悶因為今年的公務人員的加薪只有3%那我可以請教一下部長為何台鐵票價漲了26%國道客運也漲了6% |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
143.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
168.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
要跟部長說明的是這些人會搭這些的通常都是上班族或者是這個學生公務人員都是一些比較需要搭乘的這些的人這樣子的上漲請問第一個造成物價整個上漲現在很多的這個菜籃族都跟我講現在拿一千塊去菜市場買東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
170.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
191.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
過去有都可以買了很多 收穫滿滿現在可能買了一些青菜 買了一些肉就發現一千塊都不見了我想要先請教 這個部長有上來請問漲價漲那麼多對人民如何解釋謝謝 我覺得也不只山高啦我們經濟成長率也很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
192.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
203.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們的GDP國家生產總額26兆也很高我們的股票也很高你可以繼續講沒事我認為針對問題我覺得民眾想要了解預算新高漲價也新高我認為說我認定在進步可是我必須對辛苦的蔡蘭族辛苦的很多的人民針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
216.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
229.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
只有漲 薪水不漲 比如說公務員只漲3%台鐵為什麼漲了這麼多 客運為什麼漲了那麼多您知道台鐵已經30年沒有漲票價了嗎我了解 可是我還是要 政府應該要來補貼這些辛苦的人我們率先前幾年就提出TPAS |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
237.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
250.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
短程的固定的這些乘客用T-Bus對這些漲價對他影響是最少的而且我們T-Bus又有新的2.0版對常客又有一些新的規劃其實院長我都非常認同你說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
253.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
271.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
可是我的建議就是說可不可以一次我認為漲超過3%的就是要還漲我不是說政府不能漲價可是你一次漲26%或是漲得比人民的加薪的幅度漲得多人民的痛苦指數就會增高就像你講的GDP成長也沒有成長20幾% |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
273.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
301.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以我這一說 院長我希望的是說可以苦民所苦我沒有說您準確或錯只是反映人民的心聲如果台鐵反映成本的話絕對不死漲這些幅度我們只要請部長認為他就是應該緩緩的漲調整到合理的票價就可以所以我認為成長百分之二十幾沒有說明原因來 部長請說明你要說明原因其實說明了很多之後可以私下向您報告那你有沒有現在直接檢查好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
302.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
326.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第一您剛剛所說的GDP只漲3%或者是薪水只漲3%但過去30年薪水漲了幾%您有算過嗎部長你要針對問題回答問你的是台鐵為什麼要漲票價你沒有回答你說過去到現在30年沒有漲它的成本已經成長非常多而且他們的薪資也調漲了意思就是說只要過去沒有漲的你就可以是漲那麼多那剛剛院長講的還漲你有聽清楚嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
328.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
院長說全市台鐵票價漲26%就造成人民的痛苦啊報告委員您大概很少搭台鐵也很少在通勤您不曉得現在只要用T-pass基本上是漲不到不管台鐵漲幾趴所以您的意思是說對通勤的民眾來說人民在台鐵票價漲二十幾趴人民無感覺得政府漲26%是OK的通勤的民眾不會受到影響您沒有在通勤所以您大概不曉得 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
358.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
363 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那個我跟等一下等一下主席稍等一下這樣子質詢的方式可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
363.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
390.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
沒問題,呼籲一下官員不要反諮詢好不好請委員諮詢之後再回答我是為了民眾來講,你講到我個人身上這就是非常不好的示範好不好好,那如果您不願意回答漲價的原因只要用過去的歷史漲價的原因我剛剛講很多了你要講的是漲價不是不是他的服務也必須要成長,在他的員工的薪水必須要成長你要講的原因是說你這樣子的漲價,人民就 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
390.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
411.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
不會有感覺,然後你的意思是說台鐵就不會虧損嗎我會減少通勤民眾的衝擊,他們幾乎不會有衝擊到尤其現在有很多台鐵它的成本都一樣就是因為台鐵過去都沒有漲所以您當這個部長來,你看到這個問題就把這二三十年來的一起漲意思就是這樣,好,沒有,你有解釋我就可以了好,那我們看下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
413.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
437.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好所以我希望讓院長知道這個我不希望我們的總統變成漲價總統那卓榮泰院長是三高的內閣那現在這張圖片是民眾跟我檢舉傳給我的他說院長很辛苦現在台灣不管國際國內都遇到嚴重的這個一些影響他不希望說我們的院長在週末的時候是參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
438.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
452.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
類似政治尤其是有相關罷免的宣講活動企圖要罷免在野黨的立委所以我拿到這張照片請院長你是不是覺得這張照片不是很適當 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
453.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
481.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這張照片加油很適當啊我的意思是說全民罷免這個舊章話這個章者這樣的照片適當嗎來聽的民眾他身上有什麼樣的標誌衣服他表達什麼意願我們尊重所有來參加活動的所以你的意思是說這個公務員員沒有這個遵守行政中立的這樣的做法我們絕對遵守行政中立那你請問你在場知不知道這是有關於相關罷免的活動我不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
482.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
510.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們是做政策的宣導好 那我會跟那個人民反映說你是做政策的宣導委員長在新北的那一場 歡迎委員來現場聽到現場聽 有沒有罷免的活動我們有沒有談到等一下 院長我們都尊重人民尋死任何的權利可是我認為行政官員不應該參與這樣的活動而且人民應該要了解說這是怎麼樣的活動比如說你前一場活動就知道了你下一場活動如果還去的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
537.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我認為第一場活動你不知道那我們還可以這樣你的幕僚這麼多下一場如果還是這樣的活動我認為民主社會國家不應該行政首長來去參加這個去罷免在野黨立委意圖要就是我們努力想要監督政府的活動我認為如果有這樣的活動的話沒有我這是人民檢舉提供過的照片請院長深思我也沒有說第一場跟第二場聽的人都很清楚我在講總預算的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
538.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
561.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我就說 因為我在這裡講 委員有些聽不懂到那邊講 民 群眾 人民都聽得懂好 可是我要跟院長報告一次這樣的照片就是人民提供給我的他認為這樣是很不適當的請院長三思好 下一頁委員可以來現場拿一張反罷免的那也許也可以被拍成照片我們不要造成社會的衝突跟對立啊好不好我們在這裡做政策的宣導我們接受任何公開的好 那接下來我必須要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
563.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
580.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個其實最近大家也討論很多尤其現在剛剛講的很多台鐵票價漲國道客運漲這些東西其實很重要的一個點是電力的問題那我們一直在跟其實我們一直在跟院長跟我們經濟部的郭部長也上來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
581.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
586.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
在講說其實台電113年的稅前虧損高達411億元已經營運連三年虧損那今年114年台電孔繼續虧損那我們必須要講的是台113年的決算已經顯示了 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
599.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
621.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
每度電的燃料成本已經大減20%為什麼台電還是繼續虧損呢根據清大的一個教授葉教授葉忠光的分析其實這我之前也跟院長報告過了其實問題就出在台電外購電力的價格遠高於台電自發電力的價格我們可以看到這一張在112年的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
625.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
636.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
台電燃煤的發電成本是3.4%基本上來講它都會加價跟我們的民營業者去買電它在112點的時候是加20%意思就是說它多給了民營電廠20%的獲利 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
643.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
663.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
結果想不到113年的時候大家可以看到我們台電的自發電力只剩2.5代表就是因為國際燃油價格下降讓我們的台電的燃煤的發電成本比較少可是沒有想到台電居然跟我們的民營電廠買燃煤的時候加價變成34% |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
666.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
675.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這意思是什麼呢?當時我就請教很多台電的好朋友問他說是不是這個我們所有台電的這個外購的自營廠商他沒有去 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
677.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
699.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
依照國際能源下降的部分去給台電相關應的節省這樣的成本所以顧名思義我要跟部長跟院長講的是難道台電就要用這樣的高價跟民營電廠買電嗎是不是可以請部長回答這個應該你要去看他們當初所訂下來的這個合約內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
701.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
730.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
合約內容怎麼樣規範我想我們的國營機構他必須要按照訂約的內容去執行所以不一定是向委員所指證的是故意去加價去跟他買這合約上面所寫的我們必須要遵法所以我們會依照合約的內容去進行當然也許有委員所看到的這個現象不過這個我們回去以後會充分的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
731.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
759.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以謝謝部長上次已經跟你報告過了我們希望說台電基本上盡量用自發的電力我們委託民營電廠的時候應該給他合理的利潤而不是讓這個民營電廠可以賺那麼多的錢那第二個我們來看看我剛也跟大家報告在113年的時候因為國際能源下降所以所有的這個台電的自力發電它的價格都比112年度的來低 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
760.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
787.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
可是我們看到風力發電跟太陽能光電尤其是風力發電我們自發電力是4.4可是我們113年外購是6.59的成本我們這個加價了將近50%跟民營電廠來去收電費就是我要跟這個部長講的是說可以讓民營電廠賺那麼多錢嗎那我們後續可以得知的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
788.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
813.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們了解這個台電的這個短購物價短購電費的這個整個的公式過去以來就是因為這些風力發電的民營業者他針對台電所提出的這些的電力的政策他不能接受所以就從103年以後就用了一個前10年跟後10年不同的電費收費的方式所以才早知台電去買一度的綠電 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
814.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
833.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
有時候6塊錢甚至7塊錢這樣的狀況可是這個問題到108年以後因為台電的這個電力的政策改變了以後沒有人要跟台電做生意以及未來本席所擔心的是台電未來只能購買到昂貴的綠電等到這些綠電業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
835.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
854.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
幫他過去天的前十年跟後十年他要到後十年要賣便宜的電的時候比如說一對電3.5、4塊的時候他那時候會跟台電回額就像剛剛郭部長講的他不會依照合約規定來走所以台電過去來講只能買到高額的綠電請問這個郭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
857.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
886.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
最近的這個牽引的廠商是104年即將在114年10年就要到期了請問他會不會繼續跟賣電給台電綠電業者會繼續賣電給台電嗎我們基本上要去看他們當初所訂的合約到底是怎麼樣我想我們政府一定就是要依法來這個進行他的這個這個合約的內容那所以如果這個委員您認為他是不合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
887.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
914.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們來考慮我們來還是要在法的框架下來尋求解決的辦法當然我現在在督導這個台電的時候我都跟他們講他要從各種的方式去考慮他的這個成本的競爭力如果我今天買的這個電價格比較高的話那我可以從其他的一樣的這個再生能源我可以從其他地方去買我不一定要跟他買 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
915.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
928.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
它如果太貴我就不可能因為這個影響到我整個的台股的競爭力過去十年這些綠能業者就像之前跟您報告的這些綠能業者都賺飽飽一度店都賣到賣給台電六七塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
931.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
950.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
結果現在10年到他們之前賣貴的電的時候已經結束了他們要賣便宜的電去做Balance的時候這些綠電業者通基本上都會跟台電選擇解約把這些電賣給外面的比如說大型的上數位公司來去賺取更多的電的這些收入那台電不是就變成 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
954.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
971.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這個這個冤大頭了嗎而且現在就我所知啦現在你們還在計算這個台電所稱的叫做分手費在計算的時候還沒有一個正確的公式來去來去做未來的這個檢討報告委員這個部分的話就表示他是違約的如果我們訂的約是20年 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
973.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
992.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那麼前面高後面低但是他後面不執行的話我想這個一定有可能我要請教一下那這樣可能部長這樣的分手會有算出來的嗎他可以違約不可能那違約我們應該是說這些違約業者無法違約嗎他有可能違約但是我們一定會處分他 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
994.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1016.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
他一定會處分他可是處分他他是以利益為導向如果你處分他不夠重所以在這邊我也拜託部長是不是可以給他這個懲罰上的委員他的店是要透過我們台電的電網才有辦法賣給他想要賣的客人所以我就是不讓他執行的話他也沒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1016.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1039.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
好那我希望部長因為現在整個台電跟民營業者這些綠電公司過去賺那麼多錢現在其實還沒有討論出了一個如何未來解約的一個公式跟計算方式那我也希望說部長可以拿出guards就像你講的應該用懲罰性的方式讓他們繼續跟台電合作來去賣便宜的綠電給台電讓台電不要虧損 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1041.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1048.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
不然的話我們前十年已經供養他們那麼久了後十年連現在沒有辦法拿出Gas的話我認為台電只會繼續虧損了 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1051.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1074.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
好所以在這邊我要跟院長跟部長講的我認為立法院他在114年的時候刪減掉給台電的補助一千億不是沒有道理我們是希望說不是不補貼台電這一千億是我們希望說過去台灣人民已經拿了三千億的納稅錢補助了台電原因是很單純就是因為能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1075.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1103.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
現在戰爭的能源價格上漲那如果你現在在補貼台電你沒有一個正確能源政策難道不是把人民的納稅險這一千億拿去補貼綠電業者以及民間業者嗎報告員是這個樣子就是說我們當初為了要補助我們這個國內的國人用電所以我們一共花了六千億但是這個大院給我們只有三千億 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1105.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1111.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
所以我們實際上還是有3000億所以我們在討論的時候我們在經濟委員會專業的經濟委員會裡面討論過的時候這1000億他只刪了30億但是我們來到大院以後整個被拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1120.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1147.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
如果你們有提出更好可以解決我們立法院一些委員的問題的時候就像我講的我們不是不願意補助台電是因為不願意補助台電就像我講的用高價給民營業者或是高價買綠電而且未來只要台電這些綠電業者跟台電解約台電目前沒有辦法拿出一個對台電有利的解約方式報告委員我們的補助只是減少我們財務上面的負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1148.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1176.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
只是減少我們財務的負擔並不是來補助我們台電在運作上面的虧損我們講過了我們會再努力從我們現在的運作的方式包括我們的商業模式包括我們的這個創電的方式包括我們所有的行政包括我們的運籌模式從各方面來精進所以我們會努力但是我們在請大佑同意我們1000億是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1178.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1207.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
消除我們過去補助同國人的這個財務的這個方面因為我們還是要去借錢我們要借錢來彌補所以那個利息的部分我們大概增加了好幾十億的這個利息所以如果大院給我們補助讓我們財務能夠更健全政府已經補貼台電利息也蠻多的好不好好不好我們就接下來講好那接下來齁需要說部長也還是要提出具體的政策跟立法院來報告好那我們下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1209.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1236.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
好 接下來我們要請教院長的部分這是我一直很重視的一個問題我們台灣發展那麼多的綠電 綠能有關於這個太陽能板以及這個風力發電的這個大型的風液板其實現在在大家在台灣的認定說這些東西未來是台灣積極要做的事其實我們有認同可是我要跟院長報告的是過去從108年到113年過去六年來我們有五家的回收處理那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1237.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1255.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
太陽能板的業者處理了將近一千噸公噸的太陽能板在未來的即將的七年即將會有一萬噸的廢棄的太陽能板再加七年十四年總共有十萬噸的廢棄的太陽能板 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1255.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1270.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
可是現在讓人民沒辦法接受的是這樣我們的理解就是太陽能板應該是要可以回收的可是現在這五家處理業者他們不是做回收他們是做處理將近或者是報廢的這樣的舉動所以而且尤其是 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1270.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1295.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
太陽能板過去有跟院長報告它過去就是因為這個玻璃跟這個EVA的這個膜它黏的痕跡沒有辦法分離所以我知道說現在環境部也積極在努力來做整個的太陽能板的一個處理可是到現在目前來講是沒有辦法處理的也沒有辦法回收的只能做報廢的這樣的動作是不是請院長或者是我們部長或 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1296.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1323.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
可以來解釋一下 這樣子未來這麼多的廢棄物過去喔 尤其是過去除了這一千噸政府有補助的只有一百多噸沒有補助的 給這些回收業者的不曉得丟到哪裡去我收到消息啊 就是給一些民間業者拿去跟其他的玻璃業 全部混在一起拿去丟這樣子不會造成臺灣未來的這個整個的環保的而且垃圾的危機嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1324.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1342.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
報告委員我想我們update一下現在科技的狀況太陽能回收的話我們早就已經有看到這樣的一個問題所以工業技術研究院已經完全開發出來可以計轉處理太陽能廢棄物的技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1347.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1367.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好,謝謝部長。部長,為了了解中研院有去做這樣的事情,他也有不管是計轉或是做一些授權給相關的民間業者。可是就我了解,其實你會後是不是可以提供給我,現在是不是有在生產相關的產品?就我得知是完全沒有。 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1368.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1379.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
而且現在整個政府單位其實也沒有辦法掌握有生產多少的狀況所以現在是沒有辦法生產的狀況所以就算中原業有在做如果沒有辦法生產 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1380.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1405.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
報告委員其實第一個是我們國內的太陽能板是從2000年開始用到2010年是因為當時推動百萬陽光屋頂所以那時候開始多了很多我們是2018年19年才訂定等於是太陽能板必須要付那個費用清除處理的費用所以現在我們現在處理的是以前很舊的那目前來看的話的確因為那時候成本不符所以大概只能做這樣的用途 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1406.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1429.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
但是因為現在有五家 未來還有幾家正在審核當中我們希望他們可以全循環的再利用因為那個裡面不是廢棄物是一個很好的資產 還可以再循環的所以目前現在還不是最高量的時候所以委員不用擔心預計是2039年是最高量的時候一年大概會有10萬噸的產出那我們預計現在的量可以到13萬噸所以委員這個問題不是很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1431.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1458.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
謝謝彭部長那我們看下一張圖就這張圖這張圖是這個民間的業者給我的這張圖他說原本希望說現在環境部其實有在努力我們也知道也有補貼這些的回收業者一頓是兩萬三千塊可是想不到在我了解有很多民間業者跟我反映說這些回收業者拿到了補助我們看上一頁回收業者在上一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1460.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1474.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
太陽能這個光電廠設置了光電板了以後等它到了這個年限了以後會有請這個清除業者去清除然後環境部會收到這些繳費的太陽能光電業者的繳費資金以後來去做補貼清除業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1477.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1500.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那補貼完了以後會到處理機構就是我剛剛講這五家處理機構這五家處理機構一頓現在都拿這個政府兩萬三的這個補貼費然後政府有去集合可是沒有想到這個環境部的集合我不知道是環境部被騙了還是怎麼樣他的集合只是做一般就是做一個自治化的集合所以我們來看一下下兩個月拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1502.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1518.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
左邊這一頁是現代太陽能廢棄板這環境部給我的資料從處理前原本在一個光電板可以處理完以後分成兩種的玻璃一種是處理後玻璃碎質較多的或者是處理很乾淨的可是當這些回收頁子我剛剛講的現在的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1521.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1533.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
就像我們所擔心的這些回收業者在處理完了以後它其實是交由一些民間業者比如說一些剝離廠叫他說因為量少拿去幫我順便回收丟掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1534.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1555.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那一些這些是一些沒有拿到補作業者有拿到補作業者他拿到的資料跟給環境部的完全不一樣他跟環境部說做的事很好可以清理得很乾淨可是他當他打給下游業者的時候他是拿給他的事這些下游業者這些要做真的去回收再利用的業者沒辦法接受資料所以這就是我要跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1557.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1568.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
部長講的真實的情況是太陽能板的災血破碎料根本就沒有環境部所拿到的資料這麼樣的漂亮這些是在利用的業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1571.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1595.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
私下給我的照片他說要拿現場的食物給我看所以拜託部長跟院長這個東西如果不提早來做的話會是台灣的能源跟生態的耗節這些東西都混在一般的玻璃業者因為量少塞進去拿去丟掉一起拿去丟掉好不好所以謝謝委員提供資料我們一定派人去查然後如果是違法的話我們一定會嚴懲 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1596.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1625.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以拜託一下我希望部長下次查討的時候也通知我我們一起去看一看謝謝好下頁第二個另外一個也是我們覺得綠人政策的問題我們的大型的風機葉片你們知道台電光是台電我們的太陽能板跟風機葉片光是台電它有辦法處理嗎多少的閒置的在我們的台電裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1626.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1650.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
報告委員,據我的了解,因為這個大概現在只有幾十噸而已那目前來說的話,因為過去發生這個議題的時候環保局有去查,然後也有稽查那現在台電已經承諾放到他們的機房去了,不是裸露在外所以這個看到的景象已經不出現了那台電自己也承諾,因為這個東西一定要去做特別的處理的那這個都是早期 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1650.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1668.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
很早很早的大概都是多少k瓦的很小的所以未來我們預計大量是2040年那目前我們的量能也都開始起來當然現在的處理技術還不好但是我所知道的其實風機的這個業片是可以再回收再利用再循環的這個都是我們期待可以做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1669.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1698.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
好 謝謝院長所以我認為台灣要發展綠能政策我們都支持只是剛剛跟院長報告不要補助這些綠營業者可以補助可是加這麼多錢補助而且尤其是我們這樣的這個太陽能板我們的大型的風月完全沒有辦法處理的狀況台灣還一直努力而且做那麼大的計畫來去做這樣子的東西其實對台灣的整個未來的環境有非常嚴重的影響是的 政府有補助的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1699.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1714.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
接受政府的補貼就要遵照政府的規定否則我們一定嚴查嚴辦好 謝謝好 下一頁好 接下來我要請教有關於這個台積電的問題那台積電我相信很多委員有請教過這個院長跟部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1716.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1738.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
3月4號美國總統川普跟台積電董事魏董事長共同宣布台積電在美國設廠投資金額高達1000億美金因為時間的關係我簡單問一下院長跟部長川普在3月9號的時候說加碼投資到2000億美金請問是真的嗎他應該是把之前的650億加上1000億加起來1650億 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1742.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1757.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
所以你的意思是說他不是說他不是說這一千億要加碼到兩千億是過去的一千億加上之前已經提供已經投資六百五十億那差的三百五十億是他的加淨位法 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1758.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1781.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我們沒有辦法去評論一個外國的領袖他們所說的內容到底是什麼但是我想這個外界的報導或者各方面在講說一千億或者兩千億一千億這個是事實那之前的投資是六百五十億加上一千億那也許他我們沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
1782.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
1786.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
沒有必要去評論兩千億這件事情我跟委員報告台積電要投資到美積電這個錢要出去一定要經過經濟部的投審會許可這裡面投審會一定會把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
1807.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
1834.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
一定會把握謝謝院長跟部長實現關係最後我還是要幫我們國人因為外資三大法人已經15年賣超了我們都很擔心台積電這樣子有點被美國半恐嚇式的投資美國投資台積電投資美國這樣的事情對於台灣整體的未來的就業我們產業的外流等等的這些東西我們還希望說部長跟院長可以提供一個報告給我們所有的委員讓我們可以來放心也讓國人來放心好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
1835.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
1837.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
政府跟所有產業都會保持最好的 |