| IVOD_ID |
159308 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159308 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第5次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第5次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-18T14:46:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-18T15:16:32+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:30:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1468b0c2f72abc7f36fae4b29dd290e9192e6bfb57ea0be433c96f8bd2881a1ac53c89e6150c5b455ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
廖先翔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:46:03 - 15:16:32 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第5次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。二、3月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、3月18日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好謝謝主席麻煩請卓院長麻煩請卓院長再次備詢院長午安那我今天的質詢大概幾個方向這個幕僚可以先準備一下沒關係首先會先跟您討論這個地方的軌道建設接下來可能是台62延伸的問題然後再來台大金山分院的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
38.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
64.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這個擴建那最後白袍乎 汐止白袍乎的問題那接下來可能還會再跟你討論這個台階的問題啦我今天的順序大概是這樣子喔那也先跟讓幕僚知道可以先做一些我們希望有一些實質的討論啦那第一個就是我們的軌道建設啦我想先請教院長我們通案性的問題通案性的問題就是財化法通過之後原則上我們行政院補助地方的軌道建設的補助比例應該也會有所調整嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
65.789 |
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財化法通過之後現在依照新修正的財化法從中央要少掉3753億那3753億從哪裡來總不能憑空掉下來所以一定會重新核定跟一些地方補助的案件甚至順序、時間、內容都要重新再看過所以我跟院長確認一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.79 |
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101.406 |
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新的案子用新的補助辦法這個我可以理解地方拿到更多錢負擔更多我都贊成所以剛剛院長的意思是已經核定的案件可能也會重新的拿出來審視一下補助的比例跟起承的問題是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
102.347 |
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127.601 |
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我會要求重新再來看看你需要調整可以調整而且必須調整的地方所以所有的案子你們都會調整那我了解OK那沒問題那我今天開始先第一個討論我們汐止汐止的軌道建設第一個我們汐止的軌道建設大概分成兩條線兩條線就是過去的汐止民生線跟基隆捷運那分三個部分因為汐止民生線差離一半就是從汐止到東湖先做東湖到大稻埕 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
129.702 |
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155.549 |
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目前還沒有準備要動工那汐止到東湖這一段預計要在後天3月20號新北市政府就要辦實質的這個主體工程的動工典禮了啦那這個一條線原本有十多站那當初可能因為種種的原因所以切開一半汐止這一邊 汐止到東湖先做那現在台北市也有意願要接續後續的一個工程就是從 也不是工程 就是規劃從東湖大到老城 他們現在也開始規劃了 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
156.849 |
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那一條線當初被切了一半效益一定是比較差的那我請教院長您會不會也是認同這樣的觀念一條線應該要整條的來規劃才會是比較有效益的未來也是會建議地方政府積極的來把他們應該做的工作來完成來給地方 該來給中央政府進行審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
175.722 |
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198.6 |
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細節我請部長講 但我現在表示由此更看得出來 很多的相關工程 軌道 跨年度的 跨縣市的由各縣市去做 不見得是非常順暢的一件事情中央統一來規劃 計劃性的來規劃 才是國家整體建設的發展有過相關的論述 我覺得也是有部分是正確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
199.521 |
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是 報告委員 過去會有這樣子的狀況是因為新北市政府跟台北市政府大家所持的立場對 這背景我知道 我只是想問一下我們的方向是不是支持地方政府來繼續來推動那當然地方政府該做的功課當然要做好嘛其實 其實民生汐止線這一段也相當的有需要啦所以這個部分我們當然希望可以整段一起來規劃那過去的台北市政府或許他沒有這樣子的意願不過現在的台北市政府他們有這樣子的意願我覺得新北市政府跟台北市政府要好好去談 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
228.536 |
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252.576 |
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好,所以我想大家的方向都一樣,那各自要努力,大家就各自努力,好謝謝那另外一個是我們的基隆捷運,因為過去這個基隆捷運的一開始我們行政院核定的方案是700億嘛那前兩天有新聞出來,就大概新北市政府目前原本要送給中央的是1200億嘛,對不對那當然我們現在交通部建議他先依照700億來先送省嘛,這是700億,核定的部分先做加快來啟程 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
253.317 |
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279.522 |
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但是後續還是有這500億的差距啦我們先不討論這個補助集聚的問題這個是整個行政院的方針的問題那我有去跟新北市政府了解那大概500億的差距大概有以下幾項分別是我們這個暫停的一個設計啦過去可能是簡易的後車停那他們就提升標準為中運量的標準設置包括我們的廁所這個收費閘門等等的那包括我們無障礙電梯啊我們手扶梯等等他可能會新增這些項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
280.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
300.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那以及有部分的基隆的路段可能因為跟台鐵路線競合的關係他必須要從平面改成高架還有當然第三點就是大家都會遇到的問題原物料波動的問題那這個就這三項那新北市政府就是可能他們在預估未來在招標的時候可能會實際上要到1200億才能夠把整體的工程來完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
300.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
312.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那我想確認一下我們這個行政院跟交通部的態度只要我們的地方政府核實的編列沒有服報那我們是不是會繼續願意支持他後續的這個修正計畫院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
317.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
334.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這段的捷運其實中央相當的支持我們也希望能夠做好不過當時核定的金額是六百多億快七百億那現在新北市政府拿出一個一千兩百多億的預算而且他沒有經過修正計畫的過程直接就拿出來了那這個對交通部來講會 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
336.411 |
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354.458 |
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他們會依照修正內政交通部的意見來行我認為他應該依照正軌就是走修正的這個方案修正的計畫提出來之後交通部自然會來審有沒有哪個部分是不合理的如果是合理的話這個方向是大家都希望能夠推動的嘛基隆的捷運是大家都希望推動的所以我們也會來幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
355.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
374.182 |
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基隆捷運會繼續的來推動不會因為這可能增加的這可能要給更好的一個搭乘體驗而增加出來的金額而可能去把它中止方向應該是一樣的那當然必須要做的這個地方政府要做的話跟中央的審核那就是照程序來走我們中央會繼續支持這個案子嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
374.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
393.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
要看他提出來的修正合不合理目前我完全沒有看到修正的計畫只有看到一個一千兩百多億的預算那也跟之前所合訂的過程當中包含之前在審這個可行性評估的時候其實新北市政府也都參與在內啊為什麼現在會突然提出一個一千兩百五到目前為止還不知道答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
394.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
423.835 |
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好沒關係這個報告裡面後續應該都在提修正報告的時候都會呈現那就是我們不會因為這一天兩把一看到就嚇到了至少我們會務實的來審查他的必要性我只要確認這一點那當然院長你也放心我說我不知道我們跟您討論過我當然對基隆捷運的規劃是有一點微遲我希望有一個更好的一個部分就是部分的路線是有板南線的延伸那當然既然已經沒有辦法了我們已經定案了我也會跟行政院一樣立場跟地方政府一樣的立場讓這個案子能夠進出了來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
425.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
450.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
三個方向第一個現在沒有送到交通部任何的修正計畫所以沒有所謂打回票這件事因為沒有計畫第二個就算要送修正計畫也要合理要合理的對內容做合理的精算再來新北也好基隆市也好甚至台北市也好都要有同樣的共識才能把這個計畫完成好沒問題地方政府現在就是先把這七百億做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
450.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
478.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
然後之後的修正再請行政院再協助審議那剛剛部長講的部分原則上院長也大概都認同嘛交通部在程序裡面要按照執行但是一定要合理好沒問題好謝謝那軌道的建設先到這邊那接下來是我們這個台六十二線分別有延伸萬里跟萬里金山還有延伸萬里兩個方向都有延伸嘛那在去年的時候也謝謝行政院在3月19號的時候合訂了那合訂了過後 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
480.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
496.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
原本計劃是今生萬里一次送交通部的方案是這樣子但是我們行政院後續合訂了到萬里的部分這是可行性評估的部分交通部也很幫忙地方的期待能夠說我們只要一條路一定是先到萬里 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
496.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
524.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
才會到金山嘛大家都可以理解但是大家希望說未來的這個可行性的評估也都能夠納到延伸萬里的綜合規劃報告裡面在一併的討論因為這次可行就只有延伸到萬里嘛金山沒有核定那藉由到萬里的重規一併把金山的可行再重新納進來討論那這樣子的一個方向交通部有幫忙了有這樣子在做了那我不曉得院方面是不是也支持這樣子的方向繼續來做一些相關的討論跟審核 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
526.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
540.963 |
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報告委員,這個部分其實我們針對萬里的部分,我們會盡量來努力在114年的2月已經提出了綜合規劃的初期報告那您在講金山的這一段,我們後續會繼續來努力好,那我也希望請院長幫忙可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
542.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
570.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
交通部已經知道這個案子的後續的狀況那地方的需求他們當然會很審慎的去回答當然他們已經幫忙了 已經呈現在報告內了啦還是要拜託院長多多幫忙好的 謝謝可以嗎謝謝 幫忙啦好不好我們盡全力地方的需求依照我們的專業的審核盡量的來幫忙 謝謝院長那接下來台六十二線延伸到宜蘭這個比較單純啦因為已經交通部送到國發會了嘛那國發會也已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
571.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
595.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
通過了,也不是通過,就是他們建議繼續往後續的綜合公開報告來推進目前案子已經送到行政院了你也不要請部長回答了因為案子已經在行政院了你們會簽合嗎?讓這個交通部來進行後續的綜合公開報告嗎?我們看看案的內容,同時要看未來整個中央財政跟地方如何來做分擔所以你知道要送過去了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
597.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
618.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我是還沒有看到可能幕僚單位還在看 這沒關係那院長可不可以給我一個時間你們多久以內我們回去以後趕快把這個現在流程跑到哪裡去盡快把它就在你們這邊啦院裡面還有院的流程給個時間好不好多久以內我沒有叫你答應 而是多久時間可以可能有一個明確的回應 有沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
619.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
630.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我會回去馬上跟委員報告說我們現在流程到哪裡了那我們一般正常流程我們把它跑完一個月內有一個出入的方向好不好報告委員我補充一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
631.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
653.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
其實現在不只是總預算的問題還有才化法的問題所以整個中央包含交通部在內到底未來有多少預算可以用在交通上面的建設我們到現在還沒有很具體的把握坦白講所以對於未來的大型的建設尤其是這個比較長線的建設它的經費非常的龐大所以這個的思考我覺得或許會需要一些時間這一點跟您報告好沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
655.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
674.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個應該是部長講,不應該是院長講好啦謝謝,再拜託院長再來看是不是在一個月之內的時間給一個初步的回應好不好,我沒有要求你一定要在一個月內核定但是我希望先了解一下我們現在院已經這個審核到什麼樣的程度這樣子剛剛的意思是我跟委員講現在流程到哪裡那我們可能還需要什麼樣的過程其實部長講的那個是重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
676.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
694.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好 謝謝交通部的案子大概就到這邊接下來討論台大金山分院的案子這個案子比較小啦台大金山分院雖然小但是對地方很重要啦先謝謝台大金山分院長期以來對北海岸鄉親的健康的照顧那也因為他們付出很多大家都評價也非常高 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
696.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
715.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以台大金山分院有一個擴建計畫他們要新蓋一棟長照機醫療綜合大樓那也經過行政院的核定了只是說你也知道院長也知道物價波動有時候發包沒有那麼容易所以說招標不出去目前台大醫院非常的幫忙教育部也幫忙他們可能先留用一下建設經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
717.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
736.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
設備的經費設備經費先流用到建設經費上面來但是後面還是有一些資金的缺口未來可能還是要修正的計畫原本大概十億出頭的一個經費大概只會多一億多啦那這部分是不是院長也能夠在這邊能夠幫忙一下照顧一下我們北海岸的鄉親能夠讓這個建設早日的讓他完成這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
737.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
757.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
謝德委員台大青山分院我的了解一直是一所相當有特色專業經營的一所醫院也深受地方人士所依賴健康上的維持那目前它的長照以及醫療綜合大樓興建工程原編預算總經費是13.12億但是經過兩次的流標都沒有辦法順利的來達成那至於現在預計是 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
764.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
768.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
3月已經又繼續上網公告了預計在4月還要進行以後就會進行5月進行開標 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
772.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
798.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
4月截止5月進行開票我們當然希望這個開票能夠順利他們會很幫忙先上網公報招標但是經費的缺口還是在後續還是會送修正計畫經費現在是編13.1億而已再拜託我們的院長以後如果說教育部送修正計畫上來的時候再拜訪我們的院長能夠多多支持讓工程能夠不希望他順利開票順利開票完之後我們只要有缺口我們行政院都會支持我可以這樣理解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
799.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
805.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我今天跟你很理性的討論院長我們就不要扯那些好不好我今天跟你還滿愉快的那接下來我要討論這個白袍湖的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
820.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
838.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這個白袍湖的案子啦這個年初總預算的時候我有刪除預算嘛這個院長多少可能也有注意到一個民意代表刪了地方的預算你老實講我有沒有壓力我當然有壓力啦但是為了地方好我相信我一定比院長我一定比認證部比規劃的人都還了解細節我為了說這樣子的計畫有調整的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
842.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
858.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
社宅在國外經驗非常多年所以他們也會有一些指引社宅挑選的地點非常重要所以說包括聯合國以及OECD都有一些指引希望說它與既有的社區或者是透過都市開發的手段 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
859.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
879.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
與鄰近的住宅去做結合但是我們白袍湖的社宅它是用這個造陣的方式那當然造陣裡面可能你們還加了一些運動設施或者是社福設施等等的但是你們畢竟還是讀書一格的社會住宅那它可能就會產生了國外長期以來過去發生的這個因為孤立性導致標籤化的問題那這一點我們的規劃單位其實一直都沒有詳盡的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
885.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
911.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那包括還有其他的問題可能交通的問題啊當初原本的規劃我記得不是一千戶現在原本的後來修正到一千戶原本是兩千戶也是因為交通的問題所以說規劃單位自己有去說的量力他們也知道這個問題但是實際的交通影響評估也還沒有出來那包括其實預算去年就編了嘛那今年一月內政部自己內部的會議其實還在進行當中很多的老師都有提出許多的意見就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
913.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
923.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我認為整個過程還沒有經過完善的一個討論那就可能非常匆忙的一個上路那所以說我就是有提案把這個預算刪除那在這邊先跟院長跟部長做一個討論我希望說這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
929.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
953.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
後續的規劃你們目前還是要依照原定的規劃再編一次預算嗎還是說你們願意跟我或是地方再多一點的討論來討論我們白袍湖這塊地到底要怎麼使用才是最恰當的我個人的意見當然是希望說之前部長應該比較清楚我希望說能夠引入一些作為產業的園區因為產業園區它的交通的方向性不一樣它比較不會造成地方交通的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
955.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
983.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那包括可能輝達在找地點啊可能台積電也在拜託總統嘛都是需要大面積的一個土地我覺得都可以去評估看看不一定說一定能成或者是這是最好的方案但是我就希望說能夠有一些多一些的討論那不曉得我們現在院或者部的立場現在目前是怎麼樣首先很遺憾這個社宅的這個預算被刪除掉之後現在而且刪除的結果產生了不合理的狀況那至於我們當然還是希望努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
984.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1004.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
努力能夠讓社宅的這個興建有它的時機的能夠興建的完成但是如果沒有辦法的話那內政部是要改變過去的計畫或是要怎麼做我們請部長來說明其實我先回答院長啊社宅我當然個人非常知我一上任就找了很多的地點在幫忙找地點我相信國家住居中心也非常清楚這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1005.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1022.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我推薦的多少地點給國家住住中心去設置只是我對於地點的選擇跟內政部可能有一些不一樣的意見好不好我在這邊再補充說明一下我們在評估的時候其實新北市政府已經同意我們的想法希望在白袍湖的地方設置社宅而且做一個生態園區他們要生態園區啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1027.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1049.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
很遺憾的就是說總共被刪除了一億六千萬所以包括設宅的興建簡列一千戶或者是生態園區的工程現在完全停擺那這個預算到底未來能不能通過我們都不知道然後再來就是委員所提到的說要變成運動員或運動產業中心到目前為止我們還沒有看到新北市政府是不是同意這樣的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1049.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1071.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那再來委員有提到說未來要讓台積電來設廠等等這些如果只有一個18.95公頃的地方台積電要設廠這個土地的面積未免太小所以我是覺得根本就是退回原來重新再考量我覺得很可惜原來新北市政府跟我們的國土署已經講好做設宅而且是做個小造鎮那在上一次委員在質詢的時候其實我們也把這個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1073.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1095.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
委員報告過 那委員雖然說有不同的見解但是基本上我們原先會覺得是繼續往前走但是沒有想到這一次呢在預算的時候全部被刪除再加上一六千萬之外還有一個三百萬是被倒扣回來的也就是說全部都刪除之外還有個三百萬我們還要再付三百萬的這個支出所以我覺得這個計畫到目前為止大概是完全停擺當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1096.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1122.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
沒關係 那未來的土地利用你們還有沒有要做相關的討論他會不會把地方的民意包括我本人的意見大家一起集思廣益一起來把這塊土地做最完善的利用包括社宅我當初有表明立場除了社宅你的社福設施就是長照的或者是運動等等的這些我都支持嘛但我就是對於社宅的責點我認為他應該要在大眾運輸旁邊包括在汐止的 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1122.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1136.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
火車站旁邊我都建議你們應該要去做一些規劃我想這個目標方向都是一樣的那未來的規劃我想確認一下你們還會不會去做後續的討論那會不會有機會來做一個重新的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1138.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1159.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
報告委員,如果我們所有的預算都被刪減掉的話,我覺得我們現在先不要輕舉妄動就是說如果沒有預算我們怎麼再重新規劃或者重新評估你今天沒預算嘛,你當初規劃是幾年前就開始規劃的,那時候有預算嗎?幾年前開始規劃是幾百萬,剛剛我跟委員報告的部分是說所以你說現在開始規劃,重新討論,討一個大家都支持的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1161.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1188.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
然後之後再依序來規劃所有的公共工程建設都本來就是這樣子哪一個案子一開始規劃就有錢那可能會拖比較長一點的時間也請委員多多支持所以你們還是要堅持百跑湖就是按照原定的計畫在推動嗎我相信中間的新北市政府他們在評估規劃的時候跟我們國土署有專業的考量跟參考台北新北市政府就是要那個生態園區而已啦好沒關係我在這邊跟你做理性的討論我們能夠這樣很理性的討論公共政策很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1188.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1214.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
是不是我們原編的計畫能夠請內政部跟委員在座溝通說明是要加強什麼樣的功能在裡面或是做什麼樣的調整最好是能夠讓這個設宅的計畫能夠在這裡能夠落實下去那周遭的一些如果可以微調的話我們來跟委員商量對地方有利的對未來發展好的委員長承諾了我就相信您那後續就拜託內政部多多的我們這邊再做接洽 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1216.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1226.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
接下來大家互相溝通一下我不想在這邊做任何吵架地方的事情一吵架了就沒有共識了這也不是我願意的先謝謝院長,謝謝部長接下來我想討論一下台積電的問題這個問題可能會比較刺激一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1237.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1250.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我先跟院長確認一下美國總統川普就任之後對美國貿易逆差大的國家提出了很多課徵關稅提高關稅的做法這樣子的做法您認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1251.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1267.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
任何一個國家平衡自己的貿易都應該是他對外經貿政策其中很重要的一部分這也是雙方平等互惠互相幫忙互相成長互相發展平等互惠我支持啦你汽車課我多少我課你多少對大家一樣嘛但不能夠因為貿易逆差 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1268.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1283.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
關稅是一回事貿易逆差是一回事貿易順差還是逆差這是大家的本事怎麼可以用關稅的這個手段來要求別人一定要什麼我賺你錢就要還你錢這樣的道理我個人是非常不支持院長你要幫美國講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1284.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1303.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我說每個國家都會把這件問題當作重要那麼要去如何平衡貿易有很多的路徑跟手段方法很多大家選擇各種不同的方式那因為美國先前也對墨西哥跟加拿大有一些新聞你都有看到嘛提高關稅你來我往什麼的那我們有沒有內部我們討論過假設美國也對我們中華民國對我們台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1307.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1326.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
提出了一些不合理的關稅的加成我們要怎麼因應有沒有討論過模擬過沙盤推演所以美國對外的一些關係也引起不同國家不同的反應有的比較激烈但是至少現在對我們來講我們還在很合理平穩的狀態下雙方進行必要的溝通所以你們會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1327.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1348.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我們當然有一些想法但是現在我們沒有遇到困難外交的問題不需要大家在這裡先好像先下手為強或先大聲我們已經有我們的因應所以你能夠保證如果說美國對我們中華民國對我們台灣有不合理的關稅措施的話我們一定會有反擊措施第一個我們會極力爭取不公平的這個關稅對待我國第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1349.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1370.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
極力爭取避免不公平的關稅第二在對等關稅當中一定要雙方基於平等爭取是一種我可以講你聽不聽是一回事但是我可以做什麼是我可以自己決定現在還沒有發聲請部長來說沒關係你們有沙盤推演你們有覆案你們能夠保護國內的產業不要美國說抬高關稅然後我們什麼事情都沒辦法做 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1371.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1392.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那就可以了當然 我們維持我們的領先而且我們避免 我們絕對要阻止我們的產業空洞化被懷疑另外就是不公平的關稅 我們會極力的避免好沒關係 你們有覆案 你不一定要在這邊講喔我講了出來就好像在對美國嗆聲我也不知道這樣的意思好不好 但是你們至少有覆案那接下來回到晶片關稅本身吼川普之前說對台灣晶片課這100%的關稅那院長了解這100%的關稅是怎麼課的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1399.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1418.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
報告這個委員我想這個100%的關稅只是他們放出來的一種說法但是對我們到目前為止我們並沒有說到這樣的一個我們有去了解嗎我們當然有去了解那他的100%關稅是怎麼克罰100%的關稅怎麼克罰我問的是晶片它不是一個終端銷售的產品嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1421.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1444.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
所以我們到目前為止都一直在收集市場上面然後跟他們對方我們跟他們在溝通到底你這個100%是要怎麼課稅是終端產品還是在PayPal上面的產品還是在用每一個Element去計算這個大家都還在溝通部長講的就是我要問的 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1444.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1464.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
所以我們的政府到目前為止還沒有理解川普政府所說100%的關稅到底是課晶片本身還是後續加工的產品或是終端的手機產品到目前為止我們還沒有任何的訊息他會怎麼課我們不是沒有任何的訊息我們只是我們各種的這個simulation都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1465.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1488.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
我們都有各種評估不會說只有單一像委員你所說的這樣子我們都沒有我們做很多的評估A案 B案 C案 D案 每一種你都評估過了都評估過好 謝謝那我想因為台灣的台積電的產品單就晶片本身出口到美國的比例我看新聞報導上面寫大概是不到5%啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1489.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1510.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
所以說單就晶片來課稅的話老實說對於台積電根本是沒有任何的影響影響微乎其微那如果說是對終端的產品來課稅的話那就會有影響但是好像國際上從來沒有針對終端產品中的某一項的原件去課稅都是對終端產品的物件去課稅嘛所以說我才會去疑惑 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1510.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1531.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
美國政府到底是要對晶片怎麼去克法是 報告委員我想你這個質詢是非常正確啦但是美國到目前為止他也沒有講說他要怎麼克只是講說他要克100%所以對我們來講我們必須要去模擬各種不同的情境然後提出我們因應的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1531.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1555.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
所以台積電他可能也不知道但是他就決定了去美國投資其實說真的我對於其實大家都很不理解台積電為什麼要去美國投資如果說單對晶片來課稅的話就成如剛剛講的不到5%影響維護其為那我不曉得台積電有沒有被美國威脅過台積電不是一個整合上下中油產業的一家企業半導體制程是非常複雜的每一個人都專心在他每一個的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1557.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1585.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
台積電如果說上游的原料被斷掉的話台積電沒有辦法運作就像現在美國要用EUV去這個牽制大陸的一個半導體產業的發展有沒有聽說過美國曾經想要用這個控制原物料原件的方法例如說一些我看一下 比如說晶圓矽晶圓或是光阻劑等等的這些可能在日本獨佔市場的一些原料來牽制台積電 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1586.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1606.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
聽委員講委員的質詢應該是對這個產業有相當的了解不過我們也應該有信心台積電是一個世界性的大公司他到世界全球做佈局他不僅要了解經濟的發展趨勢甚至整個國際政經情勢軍事發展國防他都要了解我們任何一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1607.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1633.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
都不可能的想自己的想法超越整個台積電的評估但是因為台積電在一月法說會過後就很明確的講不會去美國這個去美國門都沒有那兩個月的時間不知道我的世界發生了什麼變化讓他突然改變了心意所以說我才會懷疑是不是台積電有沒有被世界的變化是蠻快的台積電有沒有受到一些不公平的一些對待 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1633.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1660.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我想報告委員我想這個半導體您這麼熟悉這個是相當不簡單但是我要跟您報告的就是說在整個台積電的這個他們這麼優秀的一個公司我想他對海外的這個進出一定有他們所有的考慮那他們這個考慮不會這麼倉促也不會說這麼高的一個投資金額可以就是一個人去做決定所以以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1662.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1688.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
對國際企業了解的程度來講的話他只有兩個目的會到這個海外去做第一個就是思考的是當地的市場有沒有這個市場的需求第二個考慮的是有沒有當地的資源他的說法我大概知道啦那那個台積電的部分我們就反正沒有人證實我們也沒辦法揣測啦我只能亂猜一通嘛那回到我們國內台積電到美國投資一千億這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1689.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1714.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
有沒有影響到輝達在台灣設立研發中心這件事情這件事情有沒有受到相關的一些擱置還是繼續的推動報告委員這個你也是內行我可以跟你報告台積電的這個RD工程師大概分成三種第一種叫Research第二種叫Develop第三個叫做Manufacture也就是improve他良率的工程師 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1716.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1721.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
這個台積電這三種的工程師三種的研發工程師加起來有一萬四千位 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1722.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1751.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
這個就是凝聚我快沒時間了我想問一下輝達在台灣設立研發中心這件事情有沒有因此擱置這兩個沒有正相關所以輝達還是繼續的在找地嗎輝達一定會在台灣我是在繼續輔導嘛跟委員報告台積電在台灣既有的投資計畫不會改變其他的主要的大廠在台灣既有的現代投資計畫也持續會進行我最後一個問題我們有沒有評估過假設台積電的這一千億的美金 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1753.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1779.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
改投資在台灣那這一千億的美金的投資可以為我們國內包括建廠土建工程的從建廠開始的就業機會報我們的他生產晶片所產生的就業機會所創造的GDP或者是我們的每年的稅收包括我們上中下游產業的一些就業人員或者是GDP的影響跟稅收的影響我們有沒有進行評估過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
1781.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
1797.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
報告委員台積電在台灣有11個廠現在要開始做有11個廠他去美國只是對沒關係我就單純討論這1000億如果留在台灣他可以創造多少的就業機會我們的經濟價值我們的GDP我們的稅收我們這點有沒有評估過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
1800.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
1824.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
報告委員我覺得這個不是取代性的問題所以在美國投資的一千億台灣的投資會改變這對台積電來講我當然不能替他發言但是我在觀察對台積電來講希望我們的政府能夠做詳細的評估這個一千億是如虎添翼的一千億又像當初的福茂大家會希望了解對國內經濟的衝擊嗎一樣的這一千億如果說我們的政府能留在台灣這些就是我們台灣的啊並不是取代性希望我們能夠做詳細的評估好 謝謝廖先祥委員的質詢 |