| IVOD_ID |
15929 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15929 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-20T13:59:58+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-20T16:38:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:38:02 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e884f44d7fbe07480889cb9ecc89e676c3be8d109af184be44fbeefc0906ab1dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-20T14:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：審查「財政收支劃分法」14案：（僅詢答）
(一) 本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法修正草案」案。
(二) 本院國民黨黨團、委員羅明才等23人、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇甄等16人、委員洪孟楷等22人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等5案。
(三) 本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」案。
(四) 本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。
(五) 本院委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案。
(六) 本院委員陳超明等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
(七) 本院委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」等2案。
(八) 本院委員賴士葆等29人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之二、第三十七條之二及第三十八條之二條文修正草案」案。
(九) 本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一條文修正草案」案。
【5月20日及22日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:59:58 - 16:38:00 |
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1914.714 |
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1918.477 |
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請準備報告初期委員人數。現在開始開會。現在開始開會。請議事人員宣讀上次會議思路。 |
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1939.861 |
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1968.714 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議事務時間中華民國113年5月15日星期三90至12時55分中華民國113年5月16日星期四92分至13時18分主席委員郭國文等14人列席委員鍾佳斌等9人列席官員113年5月15日星期三經常監督管理委員會主任委員黃天牧等113年5月16日星期四財政部部長莊翠穎等主席郭昭吉委員郭文 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1970.034 |
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1993.652 |
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113年5月15日報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定討論事項依繼續審查《證券投資信託及顧問法》3案依行政院行刑審議本院委員郭國文等16人擬具《證券投資信託及顧問法》部分條文修正草案等2案而本院委員林楚英等17人擬具《證券投資信託及顧問法》第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案案。決議依併案審查結果 |
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1995.754 |
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2012.487 |
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以法案名稱徵定第二章之一章名、第四章章名、徵定第二節之一章名均照行政院提案通過。二、第一條、第二條、徵定第三條之一補充律法說明。第六條、第七條、第八條、徵定第49條之一、徵定第49條之二、徵定第49條之四 |
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2015.649 |
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2025.435 |
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正定第49條之5、正定第49條之6、正定第49條之7、正定第49條之8、正定第49條之9、正定第49條之10、正定第49條之12、正定第49條之13、正定第49條之16、正定第49條之17、正定第49條之18、正定第49條之20、第63條、第66條、第67條、第68條、第69條、第70條、第70條之1、第71條、第72條、第74條 |
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2043.906 |
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2051.152 |
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徵定第82條之一、徵定第82條之二、徵定第82條之三、徵定第82條之四、徵定第82條之五、第84條、第87條、第94條、第100條、第101條、第104條、徵定第104條之一、第105條、第105條之一 |
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2060.62 |
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2063.142 |
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第106條、第107條、第108條、第112條、第113條、第114條、第115條、增定第117條之一,刪除第121條、刪除第122條,均照行政案提案通過。五。 |
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2075.871 |
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2105.234 |
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三、第五條、增定第49條之三、增定第49條之十一、增定第49條之十四、增定第49條之十五、增定第49條之十九、第111條均保留送院會處理。二、本案審查文具擬具並按擬具審查報告提報院會討論。院會討論前需叫黨團協商。院會討論時由郭昭基委員、郭文補充說明。二、繼續審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具。不當場證券化條例部分條文修正草案案。決議一、審查結果。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2105.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2123.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
以第四條照委員郭國文等三人修正動議通過,第一項第一款橋樑修正為橋樑,第三款修正為山,不動產相關有價證券只經主管機關合併準以投資之不動產證券化商品或金融資產證券化商品,刪除第18條其餘同現行法 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2124.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2151.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
二、第六條趙委員、郭國文等三人修正動議通過。針列第六項為受託機構申請或申報募集或私募不動產投資信託、收益證券時有不確定之投資標的者相關申請書件應載明之項目及其他應遵行事項之辦法由主管機關定之追加募集者亦同其亦同行刑法。三、第二十二條趙委員、郭國文等三人修正動議通過。第一項後段修正為估價報告師並應於 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2153.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2180.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
估價報告書並應於事實發生之日起二日內與受託機構本機構所在地之日報或依主管機關規定之方式辦理公告第三項第三款修正為三專業估價者及其估價人員應與交易當事人無國際會計準則第24條所定第24條所定之關係人或實質關係人之情事刪除第四項其一同現行法是第8條第26條第31條君兆文郭國文等16人提案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2181.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2193.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
第17條保留送院會處理第9條及第19條均維持現行條文其增訂第25條之一不予採納。全案審查完畢。擬具審查報告提報院會討論。院會討論前需交由黨團協商。院會討論時由郭昭君國文補充說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2198.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2224.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
113年5月16日討論事項審查行政院含情審議海關進口稅責部分稅責修正草案案。經財政部政務次長阮清華就行政院提案報告後,具有委員林大夫等14人提出質詢,均經財政部部長莊穗穎等予以說明及答覆。委員羅明才所提書面補充資料,列入記錄刊登公報,並請相關部會予書面答覆。委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊,請相關部會予一周內予書面答覆。委員亦要求其縣者從其所定。決議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2226.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2244.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
照行政院提案通過二、審查環境擬具審查報告提報院會討論院會討論前不須交由黨團協商院會討論時由郭昭吉文、郭文補充說明宣布完畢請問議事部有異議沒有異議議事部確定請議事人宣讀今日議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2246.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2274.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
部分條件修正草案等5案。」三、本院委員吳立華等17人擬具:「財政收支劃分法第三條條件修正草案案。」四、本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具:「財政收支劃分法部分條件修正草案等5案。」五、本院委員吳立華等17人擬具:「財政收支劃分法第三條條件修正草案案。」四、本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具:「財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2274.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2295.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第8條條文修正草案案。五、本院委員王鴻薇等24人擬具財政收支劃分法第8條、第12條及第30條條文修正草案案。六、本院委員陳昌明等17人擬具財政收支劃分法第8條、第12條及第16條之一條文修正草案案。七、本院委員賴銳榮等16人、委員蔡依儀等16人分別擬具財政收支劃分法第16條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2297.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2313.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
條文修正草案等二案。把本院委員賴世保等29人擬具《財政收支劃分法》第16條之二、第37條之二及第38條之二條文修正草案案。九本院委員賴世保等22人擬具《財政收支劃分法》第38條之一條文修正草案案。宣讀完畢。介紹現場 洪孟楷 洪委員林德福 林委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2326.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2343.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
黃珊珊、黃委員陳超明、陳委員邱若驊、邱委員吳秉瑞、吳委員賴仕寶、賴委員介紹財政部莊翠雲部長法制處專門委員謝志玲 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2355.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2383.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
國務署署長陳柏澄復稅署署長宋秀琳官務署署長彭英偉國有財產署署長曾國基城鎮資訊中心主任張文希行政院主計總署副主計長陳慧娟公務預算處署長徐永毅 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2387.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2409.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
內政部明政司檢任視察檢譽金國土管理署檢任政工程師蔡育滿國家發展委員會經濟發展處專委郭永騰原住民族委員會綜合規劃處專門委員曾興忠 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2414.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2437.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
環境部會計處處長陳敬興法部參事林豐文台北市政府財政局專委周淑慧台北市政府財政局副局長黃玉敏 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2441.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2458.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
市政府主計處專門委員張英惠各縣市都有派人來是不是請大家參閱一下名單因為這個名單非常多包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2460.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2479.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
桃園、台中、台南、高雄、新竹、苗栗、南投、彰化、雲林、嘉義、屏東、宜蘭、花蓮、台東、澎湖、金門、連江縣、基隆市、新竹市、嘉義市等,歡迎介紹羅廷偉羅委員陳玉珍陳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2492.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2493.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
部分條文修正草案等五案。」第三條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2523.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2529.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
第8條條文修正草案案。五、委員王宏威等24人擬具《財政收支劃分法》第8條、第12條、第30條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2542.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2558.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第8條、第12條及第16條之一條文修正草案案、七、委員賴瑞榮等16人、委員蔡奕宇等16人分別擬具《財政收支劃分法》第16條之一條文修正草案等二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2563.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2582.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
第16條之二、第34條之二及第38條之二條文修正草案案。九、委員瀨世保等22人擬具《財政收支劃分法》第38條之一條文修正草案案。現在我們請提案黨團代表委員說明提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2583.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2609.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
要職後再請財政部莊部長回應內容那因為先後資訊第一位請洪孟楷、洪委員順便提案要職主席以及我們各位現場的同仁還有我們今天各縣市以及中央官員首先我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2611.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2629.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
今天要很沉重、嚴肅、誠懇地向執政的中央政府提出呼籲各縣市有很多辛苦不為人知就是在編預算的時候這種編不出的痛苦好像媽媽看著孩子嗷嗷待哺米缸裡卻是空著的心情 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2630.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2655.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
還有我們也認為人應該生而平等在台灣卻因為出生在不同縣市而不公平不平等這種不平等還不是因為山川地理的限制而是因為中央主政者用制度用法令用資源分配所造成的不平等而且越來越不平等這些話不是我發明的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2656.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2674.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這些話是2012年民眾黨黨主席蘇貞昌率同當時執政的縣市長包括今天就職的賴清德總統當時是台南市市長今天任命的潘孟安秘書長當時是民眾黨的黨團幹事長共同發出的聲明 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2681.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2708.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
12年前民眾黨在野時候就幾乎要修正財務收支劃分法而當時用的理由到民眾黨執政8年過去完全不想動我們要問如果說當時時空背景環境各縣市在編列預算的時候如同嗷嗷待哺的兒子、小孩卻看到米缸沒有米的這個心情過去8年有沒有更加具有 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2709.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2731.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
因為過去8年我們中央跟地方的收入比例越來越懸殊也因此在1999年財務劃分法修正之後到現在25年未修正我們今天好幾個黨團以及好幾位委員都提出修正的部分就是希望能夠回歸公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2732.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2748.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
把過去中央跟地方能夠有不平等的地方給消滅再者現在我們財政委員會上面兩個大字國家至上人民眾第一也跟今天賴清德總統就職演說所講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2750.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2779.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
國家優先人民第一是一樣的也因此我們說只要錢是用在我們台灣2350萬人身上無論是放在中央、無論是放在地方相信都可以做有合理的分配而地方政府在第一線面對民眾的需求相信一定更了解大家的需求也因此我們支持應該要回歸到常態所以今天本席以及國民黨黨團所提出相關版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2779.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2799.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
就是希望把中央過去在財政收支劃分法裡面認為的60比40多出來的15%稅收還給地方再者也依照照顧弱勢及離島縣市保障基本需求、人人平等以及首都及金融重症保留款等四大原則來進行分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2800.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2813.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
最後,我們也提出,修法後每個縣市所獲得的統籌非饋款金額較調整前都增加,有利於地方施政跟縮短城鄉差距。綜合以上幾點,我們懇請 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2815.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2840.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
在場的所有委員同仁共同的來支持這一次我們所提出來的財務收支劃分法那並且也請中央跟地方不要堅持己見而好好聽到廣大的民意以及大家的需求來共同促成國約25年之後再一次修正的財劃法謝謝謝謝洪孟楷、洪委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2843.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2851.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
第二位,請台灣民眾黨黨團代表黃珊珊、黃委員說明提案要旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2863.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2879.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
提出的財政收支劃分法其實非常的全面我們也希望剛剛彭文凱委員所說的其實每個地方政府都有一樣的痛那財化法在19 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2881.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2901.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
1999年、也就是25年前曾經修正過最後一次。25年來沒有再進一步的做任何修正。而且所有的相關的內容跟細項只有在去年的時候曾經立法院有提案要求財政部去徵詢各地方的意見。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2902.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2918.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
徵詢了一年,到現在還在徵詢所以民眾黨所提出的財法法沒有辦法在等待財政部繼續徵詢所以我們提出了三個重點第一個要擴大統籌分配稅款的規模也就是把柄做大 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2918.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2934.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
第2個要穩定地方政府的財政紀律還有設置統籌分配稅款的分配委員會首先民眾黨團的版本擴大了統籌分配稅款的規模讓營業稅收入歸給地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2935.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2953.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
將菸酒稅同步歸給地方政府。這個估計在民眾黨團的版本之下大概可以增加2700多億的統籌分配稅款透過地方政府給地方政府更多的資源可以強化地方政府不管他在財政紀律上還是他的建設經費上 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2955.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2974.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
第2個部分強化地方政府的財政紀律我們希望透過統籌分配稅款優先彌補地方政府的財政基準需要還有財政基準收入的差額也就是說統籌分配稅款最重要的目的是來協助地方政府平衡他每一年的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2975.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2994.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
只有平衡預算才有餘力進行建設中央政府給予地方的補助才會更有意義也就是說不是讓地方政府仰賴中央的筆息第三個我們版本裡面設計了統籌分配稅款的分配委員會對於中央統籌分配稅款用來協助地方政府發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2996 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3021.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
這地方建設的部分我們不希望中央政府繼續獨攬大權而是透過學者專家各地方政府的代表財政部的代表共同組成分配的委員會來決定分配稅款所以讓各個地方政府可以更有效的發揮地方不同的特色而且由委員會來針對給他適合的補助目前為止現在完全是由中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3023.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3049.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
一意孤行,然後地方政府幾乎沒有任何發聲權力所以我們希望橫貧地方的發展差異還有給予各地方政府更多財政上的支援這是一個非常穩健長期的規範我們希望各地方政府的財政狀況可以同步穩定、改善我們也肯定召委儘速地排審我們也希望財政部在新政府能夠趕快提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3050.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3056.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
久未見到的行政院版本。謝謝。謝謝黃先生、黃委員。好,第三位請陳超明、陳委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3073.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3098.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
今天本期提出財政收支劃分法第8條、第12條及第16條之一的修正草案在我提案說明以前請大家先看一個資料因為財政收支劃分法我在101年就開始提案了那放出來沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3099.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3102.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
全體委員會第11屆第1會期財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3116.038 |
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從95年到112年他繳了4147億那統籌分配款跟一般性的補助款在苗栗縣的補助才2022億那現在在第二章 |
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3139.605 |
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我們以三級的財政縣市來講苗栗縣創稅交給中央4147億我們只分到2022億嘉義縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3154.636 |
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3165.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
他創稅963億他在統籌婚姻備款跟一般性的補助款他拿了2430億那講到屏東縣他交給中央的創稅是2627億中央補助給他3589億等於我曾經我給我兩千 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3180.326 |
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3193.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
兩千幾億給你中用的但是我本料越來越少那嘉義跟屏東縣的話他創稅少但是他分出來的更多所以我覺得非常的不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3194.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3216.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
所以今天財政收支劃分法超過20年都沒有修正那分配的一個公式已經不合現在的狀況造成六都跟匯六都地區的發展日漸差異更大最重要的問題當我們地方政府努力放稅卻沒有得到應有的回饋 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3217.839 |
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3229.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
也就是牟利的孩子我們要慚愧一次越牟利我分別的越少剛剛這張表已經了非常清楚所以在第8條、第12條、第16條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3232.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3255.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我認真的一種建議就是財政收支劃分法應給予牟利造商正在發展的社會制更友善的一個對待所以提出我有提出財政收支劃分法修正有幾個重點擴大統籌分配稅款的來源這第一點第二點 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3255.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3267.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
有19稅回饋在宣誓要提高他分配的比例因為三分鐘說明我只有簡單的講再來第三點土地中值稅應該歸給地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3269.738 |
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3296.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
第四點新增的普通統籌分配款這個指標裡面要避免工廠在鄉村繳稅在都市這裡面的差異很大幾十年都忍受了我第一張表是從一百零一年開始做到現在一百一十二年每一次我在談每一次都講好每一次都沒有改進我們不要求多 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3297.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3312.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
苗栗縣財政被控管,如果依照這個創稅的時候,你撥個300億、200億來補這一些差距,尤其這個差距看起來很令人傷心。我借兩成幾億,我本來那麼少錢,他們創稅少,他們借本那麼少錢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3315.663 |
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3343.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我覺得這個真的要改進我們要求不多給正在努力創稅的苗栗縣給他一個對待不然現在很可憐財政會被監管拜託你們財政部都很保守錢都不敢說多付給我們我只希望用這一條來跟你們談判就好我希望我們部長、各位委員多多支持要有合理分配的比例我們真的很努力啦沒有人說一直在創稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3345.084 |
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創的越多分的越少。我希望各位委員也支持這個談判。謝謝大家。 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3376.029 |
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3390.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
各位官員各位委員我今天所提的跟陳昭明委員提的也是一樣的利潤基礎也是有關菸酒稅法我們今天也是創稅很多在菸酒稅的部分但是是沒有分得不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3391.471 |
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3413.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我們金門早年非常的土地貧瘠現民的收入只有台灣地區的60%那民眾大概都是種植這個高粱跟小麥那後來我們設立金門酒廠42年設立金門酒廠但是不是那個時候就開始賣得很好金門縣政府有一陣子窮得沒有辦法發薪水只好發高粱酒那是到了民國91年以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3414.887 |
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3431.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
才因為我們的品質越做越好所以才開始慢慢地有賺錢那大家就覺得說金門縣好像是比較有錢但是呢以前在91年菸酒新制以前大家都看到我一直在看國庫署署長91年以前我們每一瓶酒的賺賣力只要交51塊多到了實施菸酒新制後我們這個菸酒稅每一瓶0.6的要交111塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3440.379 |
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3453.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
等於是我們的英九稅稅負增加了快將近60塊意思是說我們每一年呢就是多增加給光91年到95年間我們財政短收啦因為我們交給中央就短收了60幾億 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3455.647 |
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3474.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
二、按照這個地方制度法的相關規定比如說有些東西比如說自來水這邊我也提過很多次自來水這些不是縣的自治事項但是我們金門縣自己有自來水廠所有的這個營運成本啊其他的增加的都是我們縣政府自行負擔比如說大家知道我們做一個金門大橋那在像新北金門大橋是金門大、金門道、小金門之間一個大橋 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3479.756 |
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3506.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
新北的什麼淡江大橋、屏東的內灣、內澎灣的跨海大橋、澎湖的跨海大橋這些所有的營銷管理都是中央負擔但是金門縣的金門大橋是由我們金門縣政府這些管理都有我們全數負擔就是說有些地方這是不應該負擔的款項由我們金門的地方政府自己來負擔這個事實上也是非常的不公平所以呢我們在這裡其實今天的要求也不多本期所提出來的這個研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3509.081 |
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3525.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
第8條修正也不是在跟你們爭取額外的錢只是說這個法案我們提出來這個第8條我們提出來是說希望呢就是把這個金馬地區的這個菸酒稅改為增期收入減除1%作為積增及查緝經費其他的80%分回來那這個我提出的這個法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3528.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3547.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
跟這個行政院財政部不管是國民黨執政或是民進黨執政所提出的版本都一模一樣包括這一次的民進黨團的版本國民黨團的版本也都是完全一致的所以呢我了解本期了解說這個財政收支劃很困難垂直分配、水平分配都非常困難但是我們這一條呢事實上是 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3548.812 |
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3568.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
相對單純,不管是各黨各派或是藍綠的各級政府,都是一直以來都是有這樣的主張,那這已經超過20年來我們都是這樣主張,所以希望讓這一條可以優先的考慮修正版本,解決我們金門地區越來越辛苦的財政困境。以上,謝謝。好,謝謝,謝謝陳玉珍、陳委員。來,我們接下來羅明才、羅昭惟。耐斯堡賴委員,來,到你。 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3585.898 |
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3606.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
謝謝主席及各位先進我有兩個提案一邊講第一個就是我們就知道我們的財劃法上一次是1999年在今審之前我們的中央地方的錢比例多少呢6比4結果到現在今天為止變成75對25啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3613.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3637.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
這個中央政府的中央中央政府食髓知味啊錢越積越多錢越抓越多1999年25年前拿60%現在拿75%啊然後地方政府要錢就是像乞丐一樣啊仰望這個中央的 mercy你們打磁棒你們的慈悲 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3642.686 |
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3654.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
給地方來多一點這樣子毫無道理啊所以我的提案是修了第8條、第12、16條之2、37之2、38之2簡單來講我希望把餅做大 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3661.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3681.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我的頒本比我們黨團客氣啊我們黨團希望能夠把你們挖5千7百多億,將近6千億我的頒本一半只有3千億就是所得稅增加20%增加20%這樣一調整過來就很接近了6對4還沒有到這樣子也差不多65對35 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3683.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3711.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
所以還是很客氣的這是我的這個提案有兩個提案第一個提案是這個第二個提案我們現在常常看到我政府來講的話現在來講這個中央政府都是很多的德政比如說馬上要來的里長的年終獎金七萬五大家鼓掌啊說這個很快要通過啊可是這個潛水處呢地方政府出啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3713.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3721.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
地方政府處還有包括警察夜點費的調整也是中央這裡一聲令下要調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3723.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3745.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
提供政委來買單所以都是中央請客、地方買單比一比皆是這樣的案件太多太多了這樣子啊其實讓人家感覺人家感覺這個都是玩假的就是中央現在把錢牢牢的拽在手上然後地方就像乞丐一樣要說你多一點、多一點、多一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3746.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3757.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
所以我們希望這一次我們羅昭瑋派這個案子我們希望能夠認真審下去到目前為止行政院非常不負責任行政院怎麼沒有版本呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3758.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3786.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
1999年到現在快25年了沒有修了地方這個我們的財務法沒有修正財政紀律38條之一也沒有去修正它我的剛剛提到的就是中央請客地方買單的形象一定要遏止它所以我的提案裡面就想得非常清楚只要任何的政策增加支出的一定要說明來源中央立法地方買單的情況要完全遏止 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3787.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3788.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3808.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3821.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
維護財政機率以後只要任何財這個中央要減稅或者是增加這個薪資加薪等等的這些的錢統統由中央政府來買單。謝謝。好。謝謝。謝謝這個賴自寶賴委員。我們來繼續請羅昭偉最後一位。好。來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3832.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3859.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
謝謝主席今天提到《財政收支劃分法》其實25年以來就是很簡單的情況中央集權地方沒權中央有錢地方沒錢說穿了就是分配不公那得到權力的人當然是說最好不要修啦因為每個人都要去拜託中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3860.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3862.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
全體委員會第11屆第1會期財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3890.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3917.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
都是偏差、偏薄我們人均、新北市所受到的補助遠遠大概是敬佩莫作這個對新北市所有的民眾來講是不公平的有很多的不公不義希望在今天財政部長也上任了我們真的要 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3918.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3947.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
好好將心比心我們應該好好地善待地方所有22個包括六都跟縣市其實中央跟地方的關係是夥伴的關係不是對立的關係也不是一定要一個拜託而是應該要把錢花在刀口上我們都知道這幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3948.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3973.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
國家的稅收都是超徵錢很多啊但是也請財政部特別顧慮到台灣現在的貧富懸殊越來越大所以本席主張這一次我有提案有修正版本但是最主要的方向還是希望把柄做大 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3975.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4001.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
最起碼要高於過去的比例當然資料都是有不同的資料、版本但過去的版本就是大概中央集權大概有7成多地方分不到大概3成我們希望能改變這個局勢讓地方權多一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4002.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4028.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
前多一點因為必須要直接對民眾來負責所以本席政程國民黨黨團所提出的版本大概會增加5777億然後由地方大家好好坐下來來看看怎麼協調多多來爭取中央把權力下放給地方直接 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4029.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4031.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
為民眾做最好的服務。」謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4047.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4067.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
主席、各位委員先進大家好今天貴委員會審查台灣民眾黨黨團、國民黨黨團以及各委員分別擬具的財政收支劃分法相關條文修正草案等14案本人呈邀列席自感榮幸僅說明如下進行指教第一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4068.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4077.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
中央與地方的財政概況是近年來中央政府總預算的稅入稅出連續剩餘並計特別預算執行結果則逾處復健其中112年度的總預算並計特別預算後整體的預算認為差短 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4085.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4095.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
至於地方財政透過統籌稅款以及一般性的補助款益助,整體地方稅收的剩餘由105年度的41億元成長到111年度的463億元已經有顯著的改善。 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4103.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4131.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
對於各級政府稅客收入的劃分。稅客收入劃分,它包含了中央和地方財源的垂直分配以及各地方政府間的水平分配。那麼應考量的因素有下面。第一個在垂直分配的部分要通盤審視中央和地方市權劃分以及近年整體的財政概況除了要適度維持中央財政的韌性之外並且應該要兼顧地方的財政需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4132.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4146.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
第2個在水平分配的部分必須要考量強化財政努力兼顧基本建設的需求以及發揮均衡區域發展等功能而且必須要廣泛的徵詢以及收集各界的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4147.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4173.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
對於各委員提案的言析意見首先就中央釋出財源的規模部分各提案涉及增加中央釋出財源者即有國民黨、黨團等10案增加釋出的財源介於333億到5777億元之間如果中央大幅釋出財源那恐怕會影響到國防、社會福利等業務的推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4174.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4201.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
也將排擠到對地方政府的補助在稅收直接分層這個部分各提案涉及到調整稅收直接分層部分既有民眾黨團提案等7案鑒於我國各地的治安環境以及公山發展條件並不一致所以稅源的分布並不均勻這個情況非常的顯著如果我們擴大稅收直接分層的這個財源恐怕會拉大地方財政的一個差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4203.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4223.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
在水平分配的部分,國民黨黨團提案分配公式以人口指標為主,容易導致人口數比較多的縣市,獲配數顯著會優於其他同級的一個縣市。第二,有關民眾黨黨團林委還有林委員思銘等20人以及洪委員等22人的提案, |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4224.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4249.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
主要是採劃依直轄市及縣市分配基礎並優先彌補基準財政收支差短,雖然具有調計營需的效果,但是外界所期待分配公式的指標還要再強化有關財政努力等相關的指標。至於籌組委員會擬定統籌稅款分配辦法以及特別統籌稅款比例有6%, |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4250.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4269.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
降到2%等部分,為了維持財政穩定並且適時支應地方政府緊急及重大事項所需要的經費,這個部分需要審慎的研議。第三個,陳委員昌明等17人以及賴委員瑞榮等16人以及蔡委員易宇等16人的提案, |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4270.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4281.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
有關統籌稅款的分配公式要徵定高污染產業的貢獻等分配指標這一節將會適時徵詢地方政府意見後我們會訂定明確的指標有關徵列農業發展地區以及國土保育區應優先補足基本財政需要這個規定為了落實對財政落實的地方政府的照顧我們會審慎的原議另外對於賴委員、世保等29人的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4300.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4317.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
有關所得稅提撥20%作為補充財源並參酌人口及合理人均稅出等因素分配一節以採劃一的基礎而不宜過度強調人口的因素對於特定區域的扶植可以透過補助的制度來辦理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4318.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4343.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
至於其他的部分,林委員思銘等20人及洪委員孟楷等22人提案有關每徵涉一個直轄市徵撥所得稅10%納入統籌稅款這個部分,鑒於地方財源的分配應該要對應市權的歸屬。如果明定新徵一個直轄市,中央就需要增加四出1800億元,那麼恐怕會影響到中央財政的穩健。 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4345.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4368.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
第二個,紅委員孟楷等22人提案有關徵定直轄市應參酌各區域城鄉差距等因素,分配所轄各該區一節。依照地方制度法的規定,直轄市下面的區不是獨立的地方財政層級,尚無法課徵稅捐以及參與普通統籌分配稅款的分配。 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4369.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4389.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
第三個有關吳立華、吳委員立華等17人的提案將直轄市、園民區納入全國財政收支系統一節根據地方制度法的規定園民區自治事項未包含稅捐及公共債務而且園民區實施自治所需要的財源是由直轄市設算補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4391.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4414.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
所以各級地方自治團體稅客收入劃分應該和事權的歸屬要並同的考量那麼由內政部審慎的評估循修正地方制度法的方式來推動第四個部分有關賴委員、世保等22人提案有關徵定中央制定或修訂涉及影響地方稅收的法律的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4414.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4443.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
地方稅收的損失應該由中央補儲等規定一結查各機關制定或修正法律如果有減少收入的話均由業務相關主管機關一財化法第38條之一或財政紀律法第5條的規定要籌措彌補的財源如果未來中央制或修訂法律涉及地方稅收的減損可以拒於辦理所以沒有重複訂定的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4445.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4459.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
簡於各級政府財政收支劃分牽涉到財政資源的重分配對各級政府財政的影響非常的重要至於為了維持中央財政的韌性並兼顧地方財政的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4460.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4477.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
相關的研修作業已經積極地展開當中本部並已就地方政府所提的分配指標一議在做進一步的釐清當中我們會邀集地方政府協商做審慎的託處以上說明敬請各位委員指教謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4483.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4503.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
現在開始詢答每位初席委員是8加2,列席是5加1我們3點半截止發言登記本日會議委員若有相關修正動議請寄送財政委員會議事人員授卷以立以後後續的審查請第一位林德福委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4511.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4514.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
謝謝主席。是不是請莊部長。請莊部長。我也好。部長你好。部長我請教齁一位前部長蘇建隆啊在任命的時候曾經表示說這個財化法、修法要有很大的協調空間齁那 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4536.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4557.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
以當時整個時空的背景來看是因為各地地方政府討論統籌分配稅款分配公事時都沒有統一的意見那請問部長站在你的立場你認為蘇前部長的看法有沒有道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4559.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4585.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
跟委員報告歷次行政院有提出版本但是都為什麼會沒有完成修法通過就是各地方政府有不同的意見因為我們知道各地方政府其實我們的各個自然環境公三發展條件不一所以各地方政府在提出分配的時候都會就他們各自有利的指標來做輸出我知道那要是大家都沒有共識那請問你有沒有其他另外的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4586.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4604.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
這個部分我們現在正在努力的做也就是說財政部先請各地方政府對於有關提升財政自主還有公共建設的基本需求等等提出指標來那這個指標提出來以後它所涵蓋的內容是什麼要更具體更明確所以我們也在跟地方政府在進一步的釐清我請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4606.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4625.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
因您現在的觀點請問財劃法是不是一定要協調到統一的意見的版本財劃法修正草案才能成案是不是這樣子我想在這個地方政府的分配這個部分最起碼我們要把共識要凝聚起來如果沒有共識的話那這次要是有共識呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4626.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4637.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
如果這次有共識的話,我們在這個分配的部分就能夠得到一個很明確的公式,那我覺得這個就可以往前推進做修法的動作,是。如果是的話,那你認為財政部短期內 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4639.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4661.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
有提出修法的機會嗎?你們?這個部分我們一直在努力比如說我們已經提出修法的原則規劃修法的原則另外在地方政府的部分我們請他們已經提供了相關的指標那目前這個指標來其實還有很大的一個差距所以我們會進一步的釐清然後把指標這個這個之間的差距把它盡量縮小對 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4662.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4679.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那你認為以現在來看行政銀行財政部你們有沒有修法的決心呢?有沒有?我們已經在推展當中我們剛剛在報告也是積極的在展開當中是部長因為媒體報導對於你回應外界財化法修法指出包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4681.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4709.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
為地方增加財源等六大修法的原則。學者一時認為說從此可以看出中央政府仍是極權跟極權的心態不願意放權。我請問部長對於學者認為你回應訴求財化法修正的內容是中央極權跟極權的心態你認為是不是事實? |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4710.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4727.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
不是這樣的事實。那如果不是事實但財政部又沒有積極主動修法的決心那請問部長你又如何能夠讓各界來信服呢?跟委員報告財劃法雖然沒有修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4727.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4746.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
但是透過中央統籌分配稅款還有一般性的補助款以及專案的補助其實對於地方的財政的益助已經有相當大的一個成長我瞭解啊但問題是剛剛有委員提出來你像那個陳超平啊他提的苗栗對不對他一年貢獻多少結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4747.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4773.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
他補助了多少那個落差很大那你說其他嘉義啦齁其他地方他那個本來他就收的很少但是補助很多那個落差讓人家一看就知道這個好像是有黨派之分餒是不是委員您說的這個就涉及到所謂的水平的一個分配所以這個水平的分配的分析我們認為說指標上要更能夠公平部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4774.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4783.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
攸關地方財源統籌分配稅款文化財政收支劃分法已經25年沒有修改,歷經政黨輪替政權 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4787.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4811.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
再加上多了4個城市升格為直轄市稅收上也有極大的變化那事實上應該有修法的必要性今天啊財委會排審有媒體報導依照現在修正的版本重新調整稅收分配恐怕中央要釋出高達6400億元的這個作為統籌分配款 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4816.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4823.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
請問部長不須了解站在財政部的立場對於財劃法你認為有沒有必要和 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4825.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4850.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
有沒有必要性和急迫性?有沒有?委員報告當然因為這麼長的時間沒有修地方跟財政中央跟地方的財政情勢有變更那另外就是這麼長時間以來大家也都感覺到這個分配的公式尤其這個我們知道分配直轄市就直接先分走61%縣市然後在鄉鎮這樣分這個分配的方式事實上在造成剛剛也就陳超明委員所提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4850.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4851.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
提出的委員版中央釋出的稅收分配比例給地方到底有沒有調整的空間啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4874.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4891.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
所以我們在修法的原則裡面就有一個提升財政自主這個部分就會有擴大中央統籌分配稅款的規模但是在擴大這個規模的時候同時要考慮第一個要考慮到地方財政的需要但是也要考慮中央的財政的一個韌性這個部分也要考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4892.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4906.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
並考慮因為中央所要面對的特別的事權包括有國防還有社福支出、重大的公共建設以及國際政經情勢的變化的時候中央必須要有財政的韌性來做應對所以中央的財政韌性也是很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4906.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4932.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
媒體報導對於財化法修正財政部表示還要彙整地方的意見並要以六大原則包含提升財政自主、劃一分配基礎然後調劑財政的營需保障既有的財源以及精進分配機制及地方財源不減等這些修法那部長因為賴清德從總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4934.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4956.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
在院長任內、總統在院長任內支持修正財劃法給地方更多的經費那地方縣市首長也多半認為財劃法早就該修是當務之急那請問部長從賴院長到賴副總統到今天上任的賴總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4957.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4976.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
在財化法、修法的立場你認為他應該言行一致、積極來推動修法還是換了個位置也要換了個腦袋的思維來判斷?你的看法呢?委員這個部分我們其實財政部我們剛剛報告已經在積極展開相關的一些作業當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4977.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4996.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
已經提過就是我們對地方政府的分配的指標就是剛剛提的修法原則裡面劃一分配基礎也就是未來直轄市跟縣市要分配的基礎是一致那目前是根本就先把它分成三大塊然後再來做分配所以這個部分的分配基礎事實上會要做討論的我希望要進擊啦因為要把那個相關的細節可以做更明確因為整個社會情勢跟經濟情勢發展都會有一些變化部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5002.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5025.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
因為草原對財化法修法的建言已經由來已久但財政部一貫的說法不是以地方意見整合必須有共識不然就是用財政分配法制面公平的原則來框架那影射修法有難度那請問部長財政部這樣的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5029.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5056.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
你認為有積極參與推動修法的誠意嗎?財政部的說法也是一個事實但是目前來說我們在積極展開相關的作業當中民進黨政府執政從賴清德擔任院長到現在賴總統上任已經好幾年了地方意見彙整不應該沒有定論財政分配法制面也不應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5058.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5083.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
說沒有具體的內容我請問部長中央政府這個會期有沒有辦法提出對岸的版本參與討論如果再不提出真的會讓外界被貼上世衛素餐的一個標籤了你認為呢委員不會有世衛素餐這樣的一個情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5084.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5104.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
臺法法證實沒有修,中央對地方的財政挹注也一直逐年在增加。以113年跟105年來相較的話,已經都增加了兩千多億。所以臺法法雖然沒有修,但是中央對地方政府的財政挹注是一直是都在做的,而且逐年在增加的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5104.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5129.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
部長上個禮拜財政部公布最新的國債中平均每人負債27.4萬元創歷史的新高所以說又讓很多立委專注在這個議題部長你的回應是短期融資在國庫的調度上是有必要的所以短期債務會增加但會盡快來還債那我請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5133.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5140.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
現在財劃法在償還中央債務與地方財政分配上有沒有調整的空間? |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5142.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5165.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我們在我們的國債中是指中央的債務這中央的債務那為什麼會上個禮拜是27.4萬是因為第一季的時候我們必須要支付軍公教的年終獎金地方的補助款要出去還有增加台電的1000億元的一個增值所以這個部分大額的金額出去以至於國債中它會往上跳那國債中是長債加上短債 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5168.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5179.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那這個部分短債的部分我們會很盡快的去還掉也就是這是國庫資金調度的一個短期的一個現象所以我們在17號又還了481這當時都是在我們的規劃當中那5月6月大額的稅款進來以後我們也會積極的按照年度的預算去還掉1150億元這個部分事實上我們是在債務的控管上是非常的積極而且謹守財政紀律 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5193.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5205.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
最後就是部長如果按照我們目前委員的修法版本你認為對中央債務、地方財政上會發生什麼變動或影響? |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5209.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5235.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
當然這個資源的一個重新分配對各級政府的財政當然會有一些影響所以這部分我們必須要審慎我是認為該修25年了該修還是要修因為地方苦哈哈的啦講實在話那中央集權又集權那這個分配都是有點看顏色在分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5236.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5249.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我講這個分配都是按照公式在分配所以說我們地方政府就是一直在這個哀哀叫我是希望最短的期間你們要提出版本以上謝謝謝謝委員指教謝謝下一位質詢請吳秉瑞吳委員主席麻煩請財政部莊部長請莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5266.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5279.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
委員好部長早剛剛我在那邊坐著聽各位的各個版本的這個修法的那個說明感覺上好像一群人圍著你要債問題是又不是你欠他們這是當家困難很多的指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5291.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5314.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
不可以用單一的我舉個例子你剛剛講到說現在六都直轄市大概分配到60幾%的統籌分配稅款其他的是普通的縣市可是你知道嗎直轄市的總人口數佔全國人口數的70幾%所以你如果完全照人口數來分配那這樣地方窮的縣市就更窮了 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5315.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5338.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那六都分配的就更多了那一個說法就是把柄做大把柄做大就是垂直分配的問題垂直分配又遇到很多問題啊很多重大的公共建設根本就不用地方政府出錢我就一個例子蓋高速公路蓋什麼機場這哪裡有需要地方政府花錢但是中央政府得出這條錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5341.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5352.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
新北市、台北市在蓋捷運其他很多的職項是在蓋捷運中央也都要出很大一筆的補助款所以不是光用想像說拿一個數據來說我這個縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5355.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5378.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
十幾年來我繳了多少稅那我只有分配到多少不夠我跟你說他分配的遠遠就早就都超過他該拿的苗栗縣得要反省的是他為什麼以前人事腐爛去花那麼多奇奇怪怪的錢使他的財政困難不然以前也沒有一個公司特別刁難苗栗縣為什麼苗栗縣的財政狀況會特別的不好呢難道是你的公司裡面有講說苗栗縣就是特別要少分嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5385.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5396.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
恐怕不是這樣所以第一個問題實際要了解說你個人認為在垂直分配上中央有可能可以釋出的這個稅款的比例講比例因為今天不是講獎金額因為獎金額是隨著每一年稅收的狀況不一樣而會有差別你認為中央能夠再釋出的財源大概是會有哪一些範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5414.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5435.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
跟委員報告第一個中央要釋出財源之前我們希望把地方的一個水平分配先把它分配好因為中央要釋出的時候要考慮地方的一個需求所以它的基本財政收支差短我們要能夠先把它彌補所以這個就是你要先分配怎麼樣分配講以後再來看怎麼樣中央釋出多少如果以今天我們的一個統計來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5437.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5466.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
中央如果統籌分配稅款加上一般性補助款加上計劃型補助款的話中央已經釋出了41.4%也就是說這樣全部的收入裡面中央是58.9%地方是41.1%但是剛剛他們不是這樣講喔他剛剛講說你中央75%地方25%你們都在勒死他們的你錢都拿到中央你在集權集錢啦那個是只有統籌分配稅款但是如果加上一般性補助款跟計劃型補助款事實上是遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5466.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5484.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
所以你要講清楚因為今天來這邊講的人我不敢說他講的一定是謊話但是都講對自己有利的話我在這裡20年啦20年來每一屆都在提這個財化法的沒有一屆可以完成無論是哪一個黨執政 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5486.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5503.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
的原因就是在這裡我跟楊耀、澎湖的立委我的好朋友聊天他跟我說我問他說你為什麼當立委當那麼久不選澎湖縣長他跟我講說不要開玩笑了我們澎湖的自有財源一年才6億當那個縣長跟我當立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5509.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5538.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
立委可以跟中央要的補助款去地方反而他認為這樣對他自己的澎湖要更有幫助這是他的想法所以你想想看一個澎湖縣假設他說的差不多自由財源才6億他一年光是公教人員這些的薪水他絕對就付不起啦這基本的開銷一個縣政府至少要幾十億上百億才有辦法嘛所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5539.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5562.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
你一個很大的困難就是說你的這個地方政府雖然是夥伴關係但是因為每一個地方政府的狀況差距非常的大也有的地方政府經過他的努力比如說剛剛陳委員講的他們金門因為現在這經久公司的關係他認為他是多角的可是金門縣政府的社會福利 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5563.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5582.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
就金門憲民的社會福利現在據統計起來已經是全台灣地區最好的所以還有好多台灣人要簽戶口去金門希望當金門憲民可是還有一些門檻你要有一些門檻才有辦法完成我是舉這樣子的例子說每一個縣市的差距非常的大那你這個水平的這個調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5587.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5596.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
第1個要先完成調查嘛調查之後才能跟大家來談談說大家要用什麼樣的公職分配你這個調查要調查多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5597.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5623.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
調查的部分已經回來了但是差距很大每個地方政府所提都是對他自己有利的來做這個指標然後第二個這指標內容的詳細的定義是什麼也要釐清所以這個部分我們第一個看到的差距是很大第二個對於各個指標內容的詳細的情形已經要有一個具體的而且要有一個通用性的那你工作的反所以這個部分已經都一直在進一步的釐清當中對那這個要趕快去進行因為這個已經逼到 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5628.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5652.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
這個時間上你很急迫捏。我跟你講如果你行政院沒有辦法提出自己的版本結果都被在野黨或是這個立委個別的版本拿出來然後在這個地方現在因為這樣的立法院這樣的環境他一給你通過結果你將來會自然而然行喔。你得考慮到這個事情了所以你那個時間你得把握啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5655.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5656.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
全體委員會第11屆第1會期財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5672.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5693.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
剛剛我們這個主席有講啊新北市現在400多萬人口捏結果我們的統籌分配稅款總數還比台北市還不足那這個當然以我們的了解是有歷史因素早年統籌分配稅款的分配是台北市、台灣省、高雄市三個單位先做一級的地方政府做分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5694.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5720.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
後來因為精神所以各個縣市才分配的比例才調整可是在調整的時候台北市跟高雄市都不讓你調啊他們都要盡量維持所以上一次在民國88年就是1999年的修法在非常痛苦的情況之下台北市、高雄市才擠出讓出一點點然後還是中央把柄做大才有辦法修的那我現在問如果這個指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5721.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5735.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
台北市願意跟其他縣市用相同的指標來辦嗎?來分配嗎?還是那句老話老是台北市老是講我們是首都所以我們就要特別好那是當年台北市的立委講的話那今年你辦得到嗎?我覺得這是非常大的考驗台北市的立委可能只有8個但是聲量很大、音量很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5747.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5764.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
跟委員報告所以我們這裡第一個要劃一分配的機率就直轄是跟縣市的分配基礎要一致另外分配的一個精進的一個分配機制要更細一點不是只有人口數那如果你的意思是這樣呢我當然知道人口數如果算人口數對新北市是最好啊那我的意思說 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5765.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5792.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
你能夠讓台北市不要再認為說他必須要優後獨厚於其他的縣市嗎這是你要考驗你的地方所以這個大家都要加油今天如果都沒有共識的狀況之下就要來弄這個東西弄出來的東西是自然難行的這一點我們很欽佩羅昭偉他自己也瞭解這個狀況所以他們一直希望你趕快整合能夠提出行政院版本這一點我們是支持的好不好加油謝謝謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5800.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5826.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們不用急啦我會給大家很多的時間甚至我剛剛跟秘書人員討論我們可能也需要的話也可以開公聽會來聽聽22縣市的聲音找到一個好的方法啦把餅做大嘛因為這個不是說一定誰贏誰輸是大家都要贏所以希望說大家和諧理性的方式來進行接著下一位請陳玉珍陳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5832.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5859.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
請莊部還有莊部長請莊部長還有陳署長委員好部長齁上個月4月1號這個財政委員會之後本席有提出財務法有關燕酒稅變革剛剛在提案說明的時候也說了齁希望財政部按照過往我們行政院的立場齁就是把金馬地區所爭的80%的燕酒稅給我們金馬地區使用那時候有承諾帶回去研究啦那研究的結果是怎樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5861.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5874.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
委員您上次提到就是說這樣的意見我們會在討論分配的時候一併討論放分配進一併去考慮進去那我針對我們這一條我特別問的你們有回去研究嗎我們會一併的研究啊不會只對單一一條來做討論這樣子喔您看喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5877.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5895.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
今天你們的報告裏面有給的答案是納入考量納入考量我給你們看一下這個民國90我提的那個福建省的金門跟連江兩縣徵期收入減除1%作為基徵及查緝經費後支80%分配給各蓋縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5899.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5920.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
其實當然給你們中央來分配那這個東西講過我一直一再的提剛剛在提案說明也說了這個並不是這個並不是說就是說要跟你們要更多是把你們就是給我們多拿的還給我們這菸酒公賣跟這個菸酒稅法以後的這個不一樣你看本期所提的這個草案內容在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5923.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5945.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
實際上如果按照本期所提的這個修法事實上也是國民黨跟民眾黨的版本當然還有等一下我們看到財政部也是一直都這樣主張只是20多年來都沒有修的這個情況下事實上跟現在的制度今天的這個制度比比較的話事實上我們也只有多增加12億元啦您看到嗎以112年時增數421計算嘛對吧那現在我們這個齁上一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5950.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5954.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
一百一十二年的這個時增數計算原來是乘以19等於6億嘛那如果中央還是保有這個325億統籌那這個扣掉的巴士只有多增加12億啦這個事實上對整體的影響是是蠻少的我想這一點您請來特別的幫我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5968.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5988.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
關注一下,沒錯嗎?沒錯,我想這個因為菸酒專賣制度改制以後對於金馬這邊的一個影響所以目前在財務法已經明定對於這個我們在算基準財政收支差短的時候這個菸酒金門現在他們所收的這個菸酒稅是不會納入收入額度這個部分已經特別考量了 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5989.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6010.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
至於委員所提的這個建議,我們會一併納入研究卡裡。對,而且我剛剛有提到很多自治事項,包括自來水,包括大橋的圍管,這些其他縣市都是各個縣市政府在出錢的,我們金門縣都自己出啦。那您知道我們包括比如說金門醫院這個部立的,金門大學這個國立的,教育部的,部立院衛生福利部的, |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6010.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6030.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
以及金門醫院的護士留任獎金也是我們在出金門大學學生在那邊讀書的相關一些費用也是我們在出所以我們給中央的也是應該也不會少於這些錢這個部分請你特別拿我考量因為只要在金門我們都說不管怎麼樣都是一家人那您看一下歷年來藍綠執政的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6033.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6034.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
條解比例101年民國92年是財政部林部長提的減徵1%分配8%各該縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6049.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6073.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
財政委員會第5屆的立法院也是在我們這個委員會所提出的委員會你們的報告裡頭這個是財政部林全部長的報告跟本席提案文字是一致的這個是林全部長你看民國96年剛剛這個96年財政部長是何志清你看他所提出來也在立法院這是第6屆立法院這個怎麼樣的你們的修法方向跟我今天所提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6076.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6097.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
80%分配給我們也不是只有101年不管是藍綠執政你們行政院所提的4次的修法版本都跟我今天提出的修法版本是一致的包括今天不管國民黨團、民眾黨團也是一致的所以說你這個分配比例要是整體分配機制研議結果鑿定這個應該也不用講得那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6101.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6121.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
保守,過去20年來不分藍綠,現在不分政黨,應該不分藍綠,都是有這個立場,所以應該是支持吧?是的,是。支持的,那這個修法這一條應該...一起來研議嘛,放大陸研議。我們要修法支持,所以我們今天跟您說,不是要跟你爭取額外的,所以說要你們落實承諾,沒問題啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6125.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6152.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
報告就是我們剛剛說我們會委員的意見以及歷年其實跟原來的版本都一樣不管藍綠的行政院院長不管國民黨團今年的國民黨民眾黨我們都是按照這個原來的提案嘛只是說一直沒有修這個財劃法這是比較小的問題啦如果說可以的話要跟我們多支持我們就看一下如果各位在稅收分配比例上可以的話我們會一併那種願意國庫署早上有說本席所提的是要中央支出300多億如果按照那個解釋我也是可以接受多分一點我也是非常願意的陳署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6154.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6156.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那我們接著請這個主席、副主席長謝謝,謝謝部長謝謝,謝謝委員部長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6166.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6189.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
陳副主席長,你上回有去金門開會嘛,對吧?就是那時候張景森政委。我帶我回來主持會,張景森政委主持的嘛。你那時候有表示針對我們地方所提出來的財力集市分級的部分,那時候我們提出一些,包括自來水廠。自來水廠的話,也叫我們出錢齁。然後現在財政部還要跟我們要,這個,叫我們墊啦齁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6191.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6191.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
財政部長財政部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6208.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6224.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
副主席長您上次有說了根據媒體報導主計總署陳慧娟副主長表示同意離島具有特殊性要審慎進行研議就是有關這個財力集市分級我們現在是第幾級目前是第三級那我們是要求降到第五級對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6226.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6246.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
對,那你上次不是說要進行研議嗎?我們有在研議,因為基本上這個財力分歧是地方制度法69條要均衡發展所以基本上我們就是對地方政府是按自有財源的比例,就是一個公式來算我都知道,這些我們都知道,但是你上次已經在政委主持的會議說要研議了,研議的進度怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6248.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6269.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
基本上就是我們必須找出金門跟其他地方這種不同的這個特殊性,所以基本上...不同的特殊性就是現在越來越窮啊因為窮,地方政府都說會窮,他們都說很窮嘛而且我們的窮心我們還幫助中央政府很多啊或者是主計總署這邊在協助說一些不應該我們負擔的部分,比如說自來水,比如說大橋 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6271.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6288.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
其他縣市政府都是中央在負擔的,金門縣自己在負擔的這個部分,我們還要借錢給經濟部,我們跟財政部借錢給經濟部用,經濟部兩年後才還我們中間的利息還有金門縣政府來出,那這個是不是比較特殊,有沒有一個縣市這樣做? |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6290.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6318.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
的確我們就是從剛委員所提的就是說屬於比較民生的部分或者是說重大的交通建設那如果說在其他地方政府是由中央來負擔的那個部分那這個部分我們就是目前就在研議基本是由哪一部分是屬於這個就這個民生動水啊這個大橋啊其他縣市都中央在負擔叫我們自己負擔啊那這個部分就跟其他縣市很不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6319.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6324.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
所以我們的集市是不是要考慮調整?什麼時候研議出來?我們可能還需要一點時間齁。多久?沒關係,給你時間,多久? |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6327.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6338.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
你給我壓個時間就可以了。可以給我們半年的時間嗎?為什麼研議的東西要半年啊?因為這個問題,半年後你可能又升官了。因為這個財力集資會聯動到其他的地方政府,所以影響的層面比較廣。那為什麼需要半年?現在是520啦齁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6351.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6360.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
財政收支劃分法、委員羅明才等23人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄等26人、委員許宇甄 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6379.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6392.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
三個月給我們時間提出一個方向提出一個方向,要提出一個完整的,三個月很久喔要給我一個完整的答案喔提出一個方向,努力的方向不是努力的方向,要給我一個答案好不好好,謝謝委員,謝謝現在執行請賴世保、賴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6414.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6419.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請財政部的莊部長請莊部長委員好你好我看到你剛才不斷的一直重複強調說給地方政府的錢越來越多可是最新的資料你的統存分稅款就7525啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6442.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6444.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那我們1999年是6040啊這個差這不管你怎麼講這是數字在這裡啊就是你給給給問題就是給的結果你拿75啊還是頭重腳輕啊這個政府這個國家會辛苦啊因為頭重照在你手上地方政府老實講你們很多的事情也是地方政府幫你們做啊比如說打疫苗 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6471.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6492.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
在你的衛福部那個前年是撥到這個衛生局讓你地方政府的衛生局啊你何不乾脆給他你們的新聞稿你們有看得奇怪認真講起來的話中央部會有的部會地方都有啊除了國防外交陸委會沒有以外都有啊其他都沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6494.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6502.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
每一個縣市都有啊財政局、財政部、經濟局他們慘罷局、經濟部慘罷局對應的都有啊除了國安這一塊沒有以外你何必扛那麼大呢被人罵得要死一下來講的話請問可不可以回到1999年6040可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6516.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6517.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
地方也懲戒很多啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6533.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6561.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
中央會透過補助的方式給地方政府所以在精審的時候省的這個部分是由中央來承接了所以這個部分是有受調整那至於未來中央統籌分配稅款的75、25比例這個部分當然是看中央統籌分配稅款是這樣但是對地方政府的挹注我已經說過包含一般性補助款跟專案性補助款事實上比起來已經是接近是60比40了沒有啦那65對35了早上我們才差的了也是只能少了5%啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6564.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6584.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
65對35啦!還是很多喔!5%還是很多喔!請問你財政部有沒有提出一個財範法的版本有沒有?有沒有在研究有沒有?有在展開但是目前來說沒有版本因為第一個我們要先把這個水平分配的部分把它分配好整個部長你是刁難的話啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6587.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6615.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
水平你就知道這裏面矛盾在水平嘛對嘛,就是矛盾在水平所以先把它有一個公式不是,你們我們立法院協調我們立委門嚴寬委員一定要替台中市講話羅明才委員一定要替新北市講話賴思鵬一定要替台北市講話水平怎麼擺得平呢要先給錢下來請問你現在有沒有公式你告訴我有沒有公式目前沒有沒有公式嘛就完全看你高興才給 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6616.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6633.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
你不是說要發展一個公式嗎?你剛才一直講有公式有公式,怎麼現在又沒有了呢?我們是講水平分配的這個公式啊。水平分配,就是地方政府之間水平分配的公式,要有一個明確的公式來做分配,而這個公式的相關目標要非常明確。現在你怎麼分配啊?就隨便? |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6637.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6638.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
有公式啊!那一般性補助款也有公式啊!但是大家都... |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6655.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6683.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
現行它有公式但是各位委員也好地方政府也好都覺得這個公式目前來說有不均的情況那所以才會提出很多意見認為要修財劃法那現在我們必須要對這個分別提一個本本把公式變成法令可以嗎?對所以我們現在在進行就是這件事什麼時候可以出來?我們這個部分第一個已經跟地方什麼時候可以出來?什麼時候可以出來要看共識什麼時候能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6684.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6684.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
幾個月可以嗎?比較重要的應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6704.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6731.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
中央先割一塊肉給地方啦怎麼分配那另外的事情他們就分配啦對不對垂直分配比較重要啦你捨不得割肉給地方中央如果先割一塊肉先給地方去分配那會負者越負貧者反而沒有得到怎麼會呢怎麼會因為現在譬如說現在的分配公司會有這樣的一個情形所以並不適合這樣做那你剛才已經講了你可以用一般計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6732.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6755.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
或者是草案記錄補回來啊 這都可以補啊 對不對所以這個東西啊 這非常不負責任啊我們都已經積極在展開這頁當中了 是我相信這個不需要你的卓院長來要求你吧到時候我們總是詢問卓院長他什麼時候可以提出來 他給一審定下你馬上就有 我們就看到那個屯房稅2.0 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6758.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6779.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我們這裡十幾個版本你理都不理啊這個那個這個一堆理由結果呢賴清德選舉的時候一聲鈴響你馬上就出來了馬上就通過了到底到底就是部長你不能這樣做啊財政部長要有點健胖有點有點自己的一個主張啊我們確實在我們目前已經在作業了啊我們已經在作業了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6781.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6810.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我相信啊今天如果總統都要告訴你的話你下個禮拜就出來了我保證我跟你保證如果你都出來那如果地方政府如果都沒給他意見的話我跟你保證他要求的話一個禮拜以內就出來就是沒關係我們總組現在要求左院長現在地方政府其實地方大家都很憤怒就是中央最可惡的地方就在於經常是我得陣都是你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6812.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6826.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
你應得掌聲啊,目前的都是地方政府啊最值得里長加給7.5萬,就是如此啊然後我們就有些委員說這個稅減少那個稅減少你們減少結果這個錢通通是地方政府在買單因為啊怎麼沒有啊里長7.5萬就是啊就是啊怎麼不是啊所以我的我們這邊調整的話稅法裡面都必須要彌補財源給他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6842.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6843.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
現在來講我再給你看一個表啦你們說每一年的統總分稅款都增加增加106年你是減少0.6%捏109年減少3.3%地方政府他們的預算都編好了結果你突然減少了怎麼辦捏 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6867.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6888.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
一百零六年減少一百零六年減少其他你增加問題這幾年怎麼辦呢你以後會不會再產生這種情況呢這個減少部分是因為稅收短收了嘛所以就會減少所以我們在編預算的時候第一個就是說我們今年的比如說一一四年編好預算以後我們就會先通知告訴各地方政府預支會有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6888.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6912.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
收入,如果實際上沒有時增數,沒有那麼多的話,那確實就會減少。那怎麼辦?地方政府怎麼辦呢?預算編好了,結果你現在錢來源少了怎麼辦呢?對啊,那中央政府也是編好了,錢也少了,一樣啊。這個部長你現在喔,我覺得對你越來越失望了,就是這麼重要的財奧啊,到現在為止,既然你心裡都沒有半點的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6914.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6941.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
今天我們羅昭偉呢這個拿出勇氣拿出他的膽子來排這個這個排列是我們已經修了10幾年都修不過就是因為水平每一個立委大家的看法都不一樣這時候你但是你要版本嘛不是你說說說說怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣等等的我們在修這個啊這第一次我看到財政部這麼不負責任的我們每次修草案法都有財政部的版本結果你這次沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6943.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6968.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
不能講一直是啊,你回應一下是啊,我跟委員報告我們已經在積極的作業之後修法原則也已經出來了那在公水平分配的部分也已經把相關的指標請地方政府表示所以我們一直在作業你有一句話叫歐隆西道啊哪裡說水平先想法跟我們想法完全不一樣剛好upside down剛好是完全的顛倒了要先割一塊肉出來李素德當初就割962億的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6971.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6994.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我都想問你怎麼不學學理數的可以聰明一點啊你說好我搞多少個地方給我擬保護品那你那會有事啊你終於就可以退掉啦你現在說我一定要等到大家都一致我就告訴你那一天不會來臨大家都滿意那一天不會來臨那一天不會來臨你知道嗎因為他如果同意的話等個幾萬八十知道嗎那一天不會來臨 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7000.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7013.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
要等到大家都有公示,那就沒收了我就告訴你這個法都不要修了,草案都不要修了但是我現在跟你講你不提沒關係我們一定要先把中央倒一塊樓下來給地方政府不公平啊,什麼事情都地方政府在做然後你權力這麼大抓在手上 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7025.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7051.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
讓地方政府出越幹亂來跟你要錢這東西要的都沒有尊嚴啦這個東西為了地方建設奇奇怪怪你說要建設什麼建設那個建設這個國安的問題當然總要來做但是太多都是地方政府在做包括這個剛講的你說長照你們要做長照長照也是通過地方衛生局在做的啊都是基本上地方在做的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7053.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7080.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
我再強調一遍只有國防、外交、國安方面地方做不了要國家來做、中央來做這一部分真的中央要做其他都是給地方啦什麼時代了還抓那麼緊這東西你沒有下放錢沒有下放就代表集權跟集錢這個對在新政府還是一樣還是鐵板一塊我會聽這個事情的 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7089.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7103.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
謝謝現在質詢請嚴寬恆、嚴委員主席各位同仁主席我想邀請財政部莊部長請莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7111.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7136.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
委員好部長好部長恭喜你就任謝謝我們今天主要是審查財政收支劃分法財政部過去喊出六大修法原則第一個是提升財政自主劃一分配基礎調記財政營需保障既有財源精進分配機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7137.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7156.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
地方財源不減,但是這些都僅僅停滯在空泛的口號,欠缺實際的計算公式跟距離作法。」因為部長剛剛在回覆所有委員的質詢的時候都有提到說現在財政部才剛要開始要展開版本的作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7158.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7180.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
已經作業了已經作業了但是版本還沒有出來對不對所以我們現在還看不到看不到這個院版目前財政收支劃分法簡稱財劃法就是在40年的6月制定到現在這個部分在剛剛也有提到過去是6比4但是經審之後民國88年經審之後把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7183.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7209.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
金省的過程當中的15%總收入的15%然後又納入中央所以變75比25現在變75中央越來越有錢那地方越來越窮那人口增加然後地方的財政困難那剛剛也有提到說所有的除了軍事國防之外也都是地方的機關不管是教育、衛生各個部都一樣都是地方的機關人是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7211.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7229.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
在做這樣子的一個服務所以其實對於我們現在的財化法我們版本裡面也有提到就是說要把總收入所得稅總收入的25%以及營業稅總收入減除依法提撥之 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7230.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7248.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
統一編號給獎獎金之後的全部收入的百分之百以及貨物稅的10%以113年度全國總收入15%的規模來計算中央至少要還給地方政府5100多億5100多億讓統籌稅款的規模從現在的3700多億能夠擴增到8900億請教部長你認同這15%還給地方政府的版本嗎?你認不認同? |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7260.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7289.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
委員沒有所謂的還給地方政府也就是說委員這15%可能是算經審前跟經審後的一個差距但是經審的時候把省政府原來做的一些事項以及包含他的負債都是中央承接了那至於地方政府去做原來省的業務的部分中央是給予補助的所以我們把事權事權跟錢其實要相對應是要相對應的我剛剛在聽你的答詢我都有聽到事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7290.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7297.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
審政府就是地方政府,審跟直轄市的位階是同等的。但是後來審、經審以後他的相關職責都到中央來承接了。是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7298.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7320.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
所以我們更要說地方民眾現在是繳稅季我們現在辛辛苦苦把這些稅金交給中央政府那中央如何補助地方或者是分回主要有三大類統籌分配款、一般性補助款、計畫性補助款一般性補助款是縣市政府的稅收上繳中央之後中央再依財政裁劃法 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7321.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7340.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
公式計算比例配撥給地方政府,屬於地方政府的財源,應得的財源。台中市以台中市為例,每年上繳給中央的是1400億,過去4年累計將近6000億,但是中央補助地方每案的額度都不盡相同。我要再說一次,一年是1400億,那4年的話就是將近6000億。 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7345.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7368.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
分配給台中市的每年不到一千億。我想要請部長你做一個持平的說法。你認為這樣子對台中市是不是不公平?當然很多,像我們昭緯新北市、還有很多台北市的委員、很多各縣市、22縣市,沒有一個人覺得是公平。我們上繳的錢太多了。我們地方要做的事情太多了。但是錢都在中央。 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7370.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7392.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所以持平的請部長你持平的講對台中市對其他縣市這樣子來講是不是不公平每一個區域的立委都會為他的區域來爭取我們這可以理解的爭取資源但是台灣每一個區域每一個縣市他的自然環境也好公山發展條件也不同那這個部分差距這麼大的情況下 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7393.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7419.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
財政收支劃分法就有一個要調劑營需的功能然後要促進區域之間的一個均衡的發展這個部分是要做到的那另外就是說在市權的部分中央所承擔的一個市權跟地方所承擔的市權跟錢之間的分配也要有關聯因為中央有很多事情是屬於中央在做的所以中央也需要一定的一個財政的一個能量跟財政的一個韌性所以大家都會覺得說自己的縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7421.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7447.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
分配的不夠多。」我想這個部分我可以理解這也就是說我們在水平分配的時候必須要有一個很清楚很明確的指標讓大家都可以覺得說可以有一個共識來做這個但是我知道難度非常高啦因為大家都會為自己的縣市來爭取比較好的資源這是可以理解是那部長那我再請教齁這個土地增值稅啊土地增值稅是地方稅那是不是地方稅對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7448.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7461.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
是地方稅。地價稅、填付、房屋稅之類都是地方稅。本席認為100%應該要都歸給地方政府才對。為什麼中央還要抽走20%來做統籌分配呢?這是什麼法? |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7465.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7484.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
抽走了以後其實又分配下去還是分配下去不是中央要拿走所以對於這個稅收怎麼將來的分成就是稅收分成的部分將來也會在我們這邊一起考慮要不要直接分還是說因為土生稅本來就是你拿走了他的20%然後再也是一樣20%還給他嗎並不是嘛不是還給他啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7486.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7502.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
並不是嘛,那所以所以一樣就是等於是說這是地方稅可是必須有20%必須由中央來做統籌分配在這去分配出去還是分配出去的對會到縣市裡面去可是為什麼要比如說土地的地價稅的增加這些應該說是 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7504.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7529.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
地方政府努力施政得到的重要成果嘛。台北市的成果、台中市的成果然後我不知道你要分配到哪裡。這怎麼公平呢?你要怎麼做?這叫黑箱嗎?我可以說它是黑箱嗎?沒有分配的話都是按照公式來分配的。公式來分配。然後其實在分配的時候其實有一個很重要的觀點。城市治理部長,部長你也清楚對不對?城市治理當然... |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7530.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7532.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
提供財政收支劃分法：立法院第11屆第1會期財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7550.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7573.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
他不知道或者是他也不能夠了解的這些統籌分配這我覺得不公平所以中央不能拿走這20%啦我用部長這個要我極力的要求這個部分在我們未來的這個新的院版出來我們財政部對於我們財政收支劃分法統籌分配款這一些我們要做一個全面的設計啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7576.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7603.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
這一定要做一個決定的設計因為時過境遷那麼久了民國40年6月到民國88年精神一直到現在對不對從6比4到75比25那沒有得到一個合理公正大家可以認同的當然剛剛也有提到各縣市有各縣市的堅持每個立委有每個立委的一個責任但是我相信只要提出願版然後大家跟黨團的版本來做一個磋商我們討論出一個最好的好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7603.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7609.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
好,謝謝委員。謝謝。那我再來再請教,就是說這個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7613.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7630.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
已經25年沒有修正所以我們期待一個健全財政的統籌法新的版本根據政府公布的國債中截至5月10日中央政府一年以上債務月償還的餘額為5兆5.9938兆這6兆 接近6兆國民黨都十分關注可不可以請部長簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7643.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7665.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
跟委員報告我們的長期債務是5兆9938億那這個部分我們會在5月6月的時候大額稅款進來的時候我們就會去優先去做還債會做還債那我們對債務的控管其實都一直要符合公共債務法的規定那我們現在距離公共債務法的一個一個空間其實還有我們目前實際的債務比例是2626而已對那 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7668.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7670.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
公共債務法是40.6,但是我們實際債務佔我們GDP的比例是26點多 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7674.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7692.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我還要這麼講啦,因為每一年都超徵齁,民眾在意的就是你政府今年又從民眾身上拿了多少錢,連續三年超徵接近1.3兆對不對?不是超徵,我們的稅款每一塊錢都是依法來支收的,只是說收的金額是我比預算數來的高,那是超過預算數的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7699.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7718.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
今天是新政府上台的第一天所以我們所有的委員、我們立法院的同仁都希望說尤其財政部財政部掌管著整個國家的一個財政大權那如何照顧人民、如何法令健全、如何優化我們的財政這個才是最重要的好不好好謝謝委員的質詢謝謝謝謝委員謝謝現在質詢請鄭天財政委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7730.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7758.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
五加一。」主席、各位委員、有請部長。請莊部長。委員好。部長好。這個財政收支劃分法25年沒有修正了。這樣的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7760.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7772.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
對越偏遠的縣越偏遠的鄉那就更不利了基本上會是這樣所以這個部分是財政部這邊要這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7774.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7803.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
要積極地來去,這個如果拿出你們的版本很難拿出來的話,就是應該要依立法委員的版本怎麼樣去做最好的一個來去做修正。好,我們這個援助民主的部分,憲法徵修條文第4條規定得很清楚,要積極維護發展援助民主語言及文化。 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7804.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7827.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
第12項憲法徵修條文因依民主院保障原住民族的地位及政治參與並對其教育文化、交通水利、衛生、醫療、經濟、土地、社會福利、事業予以保障、輔助並促其發展所以這些都是需要經費才有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7828.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7846.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
之所以憲法徵修條文會把它列進去就是這些都是需要積極地來辦理的部分所以根據這個條文憲法徵修條文其辦法另以法律定之所以有了原住民族基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7847.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7874.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
原住民族基本法裏面定了很多需要做的事情基本上主要就在這個部分甚至對於交通水利這些相關的這些需要包括工程的很多的建設原基法也規定要成立建設基金但是這個基金到現在也沒有成立所以第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7876.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7878.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
財化法25年來沒有修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7880.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7906.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我過去也提出這個財化法針對原住民族地區的一個條文也都沒有機會然後原基法也定了說應該設置這個建設基金原住民族建設基金也不成立也不定也不定這個辦法所以這個部分我們就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7908.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7919.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我剛講的一開始講的這個25年來沒有修越偏遠的縣市越偏遠的鄉那絕對是最不利是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7921.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7949.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
目前來說對於原住民這個部分有一些相關的規定尤其在地方制度法裡面也有一些規定我想那另外當然這個部分有原基法或其他憲法裡面對原住民傳統領域的或者是地區的一個保障那至於財化法的部分它有一個功能就是要調節營需然後促進一個均衡的發展所以我想在這個部分對原住民這個區域的一個發展所需要的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7950.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7963.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
依照現行地制法的規定已經有所規定了。這個你們今天的報告裡面你們的結論還要再討論所以這個部分已經討論了20不要說20幾年了最起碼我從第8屆當立法委員就開始大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7976.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8005.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
各地方的立委都一直提,原住民的立委也提,始終沒有辦法提。所以這個部分呢,是我剛就承諾我剛講的,還是如果因為你們這個考慮很多啦,拿不出來的話就能夠希望能夠支持原住民立委的版本。就以這個今天來講的也有原住民的版本。所以針對原住民族第七,事實上你們提到地方制度法,事實上地方制度法也沒有辦法解決嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8006.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8024.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
也沒有辦法解,不要去談那個地方制度法。所以這個部分,所以我剛剛講的,我們就講離島,離島那個也是離島建設基金啊,早就用光了,早就用光了,用了好多年了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8026.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8051.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
也都沒有、也都不修所以類似像這樣的這個當然我也要提出離島結合基金的修正條文所以像這樣的一個這些必須要正式的去面對了這個部長是那我想原住民地區尤其在直轄市裡面的原住民區它因為不是一個地方自治團體說客收入劃分跟參與那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8052.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8071.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
分配的一個主體,那跟地質法有關係,我想這個部分可能要地質法那邊要並同去做考量的。對。那個部長,這個原來的山地鄉有包含對不對?對。對。原來的山地鄉有包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8072.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8101.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
但是後來因為成立五都的時候成立五都的時候有一部分的山地鄉就變成山地行政、山地區所以它本來是在財化法的範圍裡面的那因為這個地方制度法的修正結果就不見了所以這個部分所以應該要去面對啊應該要去修法而不是因為地方制度法基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8102.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8130.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
並沒有去做財源的主要的一個規劃。他有在裡面規定就只想要是必須對三住民要設算補助。那他的方式項目跟程序都要跟三原住民區來做協商。之前的關係要趕高鐵了。不是我趕高鐵,他要趕高鐵了。最後一句話。最後一句話。我就舉例子。譬如說04、03地震那個房屋稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8132.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8153.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
免收,對不對?那地方怎麼辦呢?很窮困的鄉鎮啊,所以中央就應該去補助啊,去補助這個稅,地方稅減少啦,就應該去補助,尤其是花蓮縣這些更窮困的這些鄉好不好?好。好,謝謝。好,謝謝。謝謝二位。下一位質詢請,奈會員、奈委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8157.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8180.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
今天的質詢到這場王室堅委員發言完畢為止,時間可能會延幾分鐘,謝謝。好,謝謝主席,謝謝政委員,因為我今天要趕回台南參加國宴,謝謝。那有請財政部部長,還有我們的副社署署長。副社署,宋署長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8183.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8206.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
部長、委員好、下午好我想今天我們財政委員會在審查整個統籌分配款的一個款項那在這裡我要先請教財政部部長部長請教你整個統籌分配款這個稅款對地方政府你個人認為影響最大的是什麼當然是錢嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8207.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8222.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
全是最大的還有就是說你以這麼豐富的一個部長的一個經驗你認為在這個整體來講就是地方政府受到統籌分配款項最大的一個影響是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8223.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8244.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
這個很籠統,那當然你怎麼回答怎麼對啦,請回答,謝謝。統籌分配稅款分,尤其是普統的部分,我們統籌分配稅款分為兩塊,就是特統跟普統,那普統事實上是屬於地方政府的稅客收入,所以在他裡面是一個他的一個重要的一個財源。是。是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8245.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8265.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
對,重要當然就是地方政府的一個重要的財源那我們從2024年中央的統籌分配款的這一個款項裡頭我們用直轄市的這一個這個大家所分配到那個所分配到的就是說在六都裡頭那台南市拿了最少他只有拿到280億那其實這麼少的一個錢對台南市 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8271.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8297.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
他幾乎就是一直分配的金額都是墊底相對的就是說台北他可以拿到603那在高雄可以拿到434億那在台中也有387那桃園303甚至新北468那相對的就是說我們觀察到台南市他分配的金額他一路的一個墊底那這對於我們台南市的一個整體 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8297.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8324.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
即是地方的一個發展其實受到很大的一個影響那在這裡我要請教部長就是說其實地方財政的自籌率僅佔了10%所以我們地區其實是很難就是說被看見了不曉得就是說這個依賴度就是最高的可是分配又是最少的部長有沒有什麼比較好的一個解決的一個方式呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8325.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8328.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
目前由於統籌分配稅款給直轄市指標有人口還有土地面積還有營業還有財政能力那台南市的人口土地面積還有營業額 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8336.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8354.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
比其他職項低,但自籌財源比例比較低,所以在財政能力這一項是有利的。所以目前來看起來有一項是有利的,所以在其他人口或面積以及營業額部分事實上是因為它比較低,所以它在相對的分配上就會有一些影響。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8355.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8382.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
目前他的自籌財源比例是37.1%但是加計稅款之後自有財源的比例已經達到62.7%了所以這樣子的一個政策面是不是現行的一個分配方式在下頁會不會容易造成就是說窮的更窮那甚至就是說再加重考量自籌利基發展的狀況的叢尼的一個公式呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8384.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8411.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
委員這就是我們目前在作業當中的也就是說對於分配的公式我們認為應該要做一個檢討跟調整那但是呢各地方政府可以提出相關的一些分配公式裡面的指標但是因為目前意見還蠻分歧的所以這個部分我們一直在整合希望能夠有一個共識所以部長如果我們把這整個稅款然後下放到地方會不會比現行的一個制度面更好呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8413.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8431.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
稅款下放給地方,然後放之外還要做什麼樣的分配,能夠達到真正的條件營需跟區域均衡發展,那也更重要的事。那你有沒有把握這樣的分配會比現行的一個制度更好呢?這就是我們要努力讓比現在更好。你認為會更好嗎?看起來是有困難。 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8432.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8452.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
有困難也要做。有困難也要做,那做到什麼樣的程度呢?好,謝謝部長。那我們就針對的就是說,在講到就是台股的指數在一直創新高,那政守稅是不是可能成為一個新的財源?這個是一個很嚴肅的一個問題。我們知道在102年到 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8455.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8476.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
在2005年曾經徵手稅、我們收了政見交易所得稅後來有考慮到停徵的這些問題所以造成了很大很大的股票、股市的下跌在這裡我要請問部長,今年的帳戶已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8480.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8490.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
接近18%了,沿剩餘國際的一個股市,那我們會不會考慮就是說政守稅是不是可能成為我們一個新開闢的一個財源呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8492.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8514.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
有沒有這樣子的一個討論呢?目前並沒有討論所謂政所稅這個部分但是目前來說至於個人出售的上市櫃股票的政所稅事實上是停徵的但是出售未上市櫃股票的交易所得是在110年開始已經課徵的基本所得稅額這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8515.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8523.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
所以你沒有收了正手稅那是不是會造成這些有錢的這些老闆更有錢然後一般的老百姓更窮啊會不會這樣子的一個狀況顯然就是會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8527.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8550.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那你投資沒有投資的收入沒有浪費那這樣子有錢人會是更有錢那就是說這個貧富的懸殊會更嚴重那怎麼辦呢我想現在我們在所得稅的部分呢其實已經有相關的一些機制那對於稅率的部分也是按照有最高是40%有在課證對那顯然40%還不夠啊因為他賺的錢遠遠超過我們收他的一個稅啊嗯是 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8557.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8575.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
所以部長有沒有考慮呢?目前並沒有考慮這方面在政所稅的原來停徵的部分要復徵那會不會考慮呢?萬一就是說股市他看起來顯然就是說台灣現在不是我們台灣錢現在不是銀卡吧?我看是銀到股市啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8576.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8597.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
所以我們是不是可以造就一般的一個百姓他們也可以就是在一個公平的稅制裡頭然後一樣在股市裡頭的一個投資呢?跟委員報告這個必須要審慎的考量因為必須要考量社會經濟的發展還有租稅公平等等各個方面的意見我想這個要有社會各界共識以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8598.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8620.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
所以啊我們希望共享經濟成果啊所以是不是就是說優先把他這些賺的錢用來社會福利的一個政策有沒有辦法我們把合理的一個政所稅的一個制度就是一定比例用於專門的一個社會福利有沒有機會可以操作這一方面去設計嗎政所稅的相關的課徵我們要審慎的研議對 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8623.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8650.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
部長,我這樣跟你提這個問題,我看你比我還緊張。我沒有緊張。好,謝謝。那本席在這裡要求財政部就是評估現行的統籌分配的一個稅款中各區域的分配的一個比例的計算方式是不是合理。那並且評估更有效的將這個統籌分配款項分配給弱勢的縣市的一個做法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8652.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8670.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
第二項我們希望就是跟金管會的合作評估如何在對市場影響最小的前提之下那我們來徵收這個政守稅並且評估能提供多少財源給社會福利制度請一個院內提出書面報告謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8678.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8680.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
今天最後一位執行卿王世堅王委員謝謝主席我請部長莊部長委員好部長恭喜喔你是極少數能夠留任的重要閣員 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8703.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8728.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那也誠如當年當時啦大概一個半月以前吧我對你質詢的時候那時候也是信心滿滿的你還問說怎麼知道我不會留任結果你真的是留任了你有做得很好的部分就是我提的你把我們的國產 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8731.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8760.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
稅金當作你個人的實質價你的表情就告訴了我們全體國人誰也休想搶走我的實質價所以我們要你該不合時宜的稅制該要降的對生斗小民的稅那這個部分你都跟我答覆說你必須找到替代財源 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8762.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8786.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
結果我就舉當年民國107年那時候那天也沒怎麼樣可能太陽大了一點風大了一點財政部一個爽快就把最高級巨的富人稅就取消了也沒有找到任何替代財源之下沒有任何可以替代的之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8787.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8804.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
馬上取消一個年度差了將近100億、98億6個年度到今年下來幫富人省了600億的稅金我今天要跟你提的前幾位委員一開始就提到就是說現在我們國債的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8807.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8827.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我們的國債高達6兆4千億平均我們每一位國民要分擔27.4萬元的債務那這是相當高也相當可怕的一個事情我認為當務之急有幾件事情馬上應該做第一個立刻恢復富人稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8829.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8855.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
財政收支劃分法不止生斗小民極具的叛亂連這些富人啊我相信部長你這麼多年來光聽其他富人我不舉我就舉一位叫郭台銘郭台銘先生講了這句話說政府趕快來科富人稅趕快來科富人稅講了不下十次 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8857.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8869.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
結果我們政府文文不動財政部也是反正刪了就刪了你們說當初刪你們說是要流財攬財 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8873.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8894.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
財能的財啦那那個財有沒有留到我不曉得你們倒是真的留了財財產的財留了財給這些富人們這倒是真的啦那我覺得如果說連富人們連郭台銘都站出來說趕快徵富人稅結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8897.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8925.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
你們視若無睹、自若枉聞那不但深斗小民繼續百思不解而且我們國庫得不到挹注最主要的我們深斗小民們還被這些富人們、被郭台銘吃了豆腐吃了七八年 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8926.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8939.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
他每年講啊來啊來啊來客啊來客啊我願意講啊願意講結果我聽了半天我們生土小民就吃豆腐所以我希望立刻恢復這個富人稅然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8943.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8970.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
針對我們生土小民每年報稅的時候免稅額扣除額的提高這一個部分你們又說這個啊要CPI啊累計跟上次調整有CPI有漲百分之三以上但是部長你很清楚嘛那時候我們找主記長他們來報告的時候都很清楚事實上CPI的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8971.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8994.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
無價指數的部分我用兩個字形容施政不是嗎?我們上次討論以後光這個禮拜光最粗淺的一些電媒的調查我們光是在便利商店用的這些便當、義大利麵、飯糰漲幅平均高達40% |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9002.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9008.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
這些都是每天升讀小名上班族學生們平常要去購買的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9012.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9033.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
這幾項就高達40%其他的飲料大概平均也都漲了一成之多啦所以CPI失增的情況下我認為應該立刻降低這一個限制就是說你如果要調高免稅額扣除額必須CPI年增率高達3%這一個3%我不敢說你把它整個取消 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9039.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9055.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
部長考慮把它降低可以嗎?要不然我們就先降到1.5嘛先減半看看嘛可不可以這是我要求你做的齁等一下我先講完你一次回答齁那麼你比方說這幾年我們調漲這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9062.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9069.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
免稅額寬減額這個部分這麼多年來你這個強硬規定之下我們10年來只調漲3次啦106年開始免稅額8萬8條到 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9076.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9103.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
111年九萬二到今年九萬七都只調大概三千五千那麼其他標準扣除而也是上漲十年調了三次而已再來我希望你夠落實加薪減稅部長加薪減稅何其重要你知道嗎因為我們統計這根據官方的統計我們現在有超過三分之二以上的勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9105.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9131.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
領不到平均薪資,薪資的平均數三分之二的勞工領不到耶,天哪所以我認為我們中階的這些收入的民眾嚴重的在這10年來的薪資實質薪資是下滑的所以我希望加薪減稅這些能夠落實也就是說加薪減稅你另外有一條你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9133.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9144.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這些企業、中小企業啦你們要加薪減稅可以你說啊要失業率連續三年達到3.7%以上我認為我認為這個應該取消因為失業率連續半年你說要連續半年3.7%以上我認為把這一條限制取消立刻取消的話我們就可以鼓勵所有企業主對員工來加薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9162.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9178.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那我們政府也能夠既然他做到了我們就大大方方的減他的稅那最後我要跟你提到的就是不合時宜這些稅制我們這前幾個月講了好多次啦你像娛樂稅、印花稅、汽車關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9179.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9198.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
其機車貨物稅尤其是機車貨物稅還有保健品的關稅這些看起來零零總總不少錢但事實上加加起來都沒有你負人稅一減減了600億這些加加起來連600億都不大那我認為比方說娛樂稅那麼他的荒謬的部分這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9200.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9228.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
於熱帥方面的部分就是說課稅成本太高嘛課稅成本太高近乎擾民啊然後這個印花稅的話是重複課稅那尤其機車的貨物稅我們一年掛牌20萬輛部機車總共課他50萬稅等於每一台機車一台機車才七八萬元課了兩萬多元的稅這實在太殘忍了吧機車現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9230.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9245.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
已經不只是生斗小民的交通工具他是生斗小民的還謀生工具欸 對不對早上在老婆小孩上班上課再來他本人要用這個機車去送貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9247.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9261.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
所以我們不應該對機車族這麼摳那你們現在摳財政部也去幫他們找了一個理由你們說啊這個機車污染太重啦齁結果我一查結果欸PM2.5的排放機車這麼總數這麼大的百萬計的機車總共加起來PM2.5佔整個總污染的 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9274.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9288.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
4.8%而已。原因為什麼?因為現在的機車都是通過七級環保的標準。財政4.8%隨便啊一個行業項目都比他高我就講餐廳就好餐廳10%以上然後你對機車課這麼重的貨物稅這個貨物稅重到比大貨車還重大貨車17%那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9303.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9325.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
計車17%大貨車才15%而已所以林林總統講這邊那個謝謝趙吉仁因為我不去搭高鐵的所以麻煩你再給我這一分鐘我最後要趕快跟他下一個結論一方面部長我請你回答二方面我剛剛提到的這幾個問題我希望你心上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9325.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9333.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
和新氣象的一天,你能夠除了據實的答覆我,同時是不是一個月內能夠對我提的這幾項給我一個具體的答覆,你的看法呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9338.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9346.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
謝謝委員的指教。委員對於107年的有關那個所得稅的稅率從45%降為40%這個部分當時是所得稅制整體的一個考量的一個優化並不是只就這一項那包含在營所稅的部分也從17%提升到20%另外對於標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9358.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9377.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
標準扣除額以及相關的薪資所得特別扣除額還幼兒特別扣除額等等都有把它拉高這個部分就是說對於所得低的部分我們也把它能夠扣減的數字可以增加那可以減少它的繳稅的負擔所以那一次的所得稅制的優化是整體的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9378.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9381.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
從45%降為40%這個部分事實上是確實流財攬財希望能有更多人在台灣來然後投資那也跟委員報告事實上這0.85%的人他繳了我們45%的所得稅所以其實所得高的人他其實交了稅是交了大部分的稅而對於沒有達到一定的我們的課稅門檻的其實他都不用繳所得稅這個部分是跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9405.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9428.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
另外跟委員報告就是您剛剛提到的加薪減稅的部分這一次在經濟部修正中小企業發展條例裡面對於您剛剛提到那些不合理的門檻財政部也同意經濟部的意見把這個門檻可以取消掉同時對於加薪的減成的數額提高還有適用的年限拉長這個部分財政部都同意經濟部相關的一個意見目前也在立法院的一個審議當中剛剛委員所提到的有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9431.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9456.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
不合十一的稅制的部分,我想這個部分我們也會是不是透過書面的部分逐一跟委員做一個書面的一個報告。好,我加薪減稅,這個門檻刪掉這個你同意啦。是,是,我們同意。好,我很高興,我很高興同意你的同意。是,是。好,那其他的你就具體的用一個書面給我答問好不好?是,跟委員回報,是。好,謝謝您。好,謝謝委員,謝謝主席,謝謝。好,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9463.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9467.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
本議程詢答到這裡,則期再繼續開會。現在休息。 |