iVOD / 15927

Field Value
IVOD_ID 15927
IVOD_URL https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15927
日期 2024-05-17
會議資料.會議代碼 黨團協商-2024051758
會議資料.會議代碼:str 立法院朝野黨團協商
會議資料.屆 11
會議資料.會期 1
會議資料.種類 黨團協商
會議資料.標題 立法院朝野黨團協商
影片種類 Full
開始時間 2024-05-17T11:50:52+08:00
結束時間 2024-05-17T14:26:00+08:00
影片長度 02:35:08
支援功能[0] ai-transcript
video_url https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/cbbd4ed0b5fcd3a0f43c3fffc0f3f32d1221ff1cca7eaff53be8d109af184be4407f16fe312f92db5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8
會議時間 2024-05-17T12:00:00+08:00
會議名稱 立法院黨團協商(事由:議案協商)
委員名稱 完整會議
委員發言時間 11:50:52 - 14:26:00
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transcript.whisperx[0].text 本院江副院長、周民事長、各位黨團幹部辛苦了大家今天要協商部分是本次院會的後續程序因為目前包括事項處理完畢,後續是處理變更議程討論事項請問大家、各位黨團幹部有什麼寶貴意見?請好,院長、各位市長代表
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transcript.whisperx[1].text 今天早上九點鐘以後我到院長室跟院長談我想大家昨天也是跟你談一樣的話我在一直在呼籲在臉書上一直講就是說台灣的民主能夠發展到今天
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transcript.whisperx[2].text 三十年來我們都走過你今天有我們三十年人選一起當位立委你有幸當院長我有幸見證整個民主的發展民主是非常可貴的在這以前台灣三代台灣人犧牲奉獻幾萬人才走到今天來那我們這個民主是相當可貴
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transcript.whisperx[3].text 但是這個民主要被摧毀在擔心之中尤其今天是最終那一天所以我要求要朝野學章那前幾次朝野鄉大家都很清楚這樣走過來
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transcript.whisperx[4].text 我們走過來的中間,我一直很捍衛一個事情,而且沒有辦法妥協的事情,就是說我們第一個要依法來做,第二個要有程序爭議才有實質爭議
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transcript.whisperx[5].text 整個國會之間新司法不管內容怎麼樣只要透過大家協商然後最後簽字表決我們本來就會輸阿
transcript.whisperx[6].start 744.937
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transcript.whisperx[6].text 1980年到2016年30年民進黨在立法院表決幾萬次不管是院會、委會、程序委會都輸我沒有任何越湊越勇我個人來進來讓立法院
transcript.whisperx[7].start 765.165
transcript.whisperx[7].end 786.751
transcript.whisperx[7].text 從一九九三到二零一九二十二年間從來沒有贏過這段意思大家都很清楚即使賴總統在立法院十二年他當時說當市長我們一樣沒有贏但是呢我們是百折不老讓台灣民主能夠往前走這是一個很重要的
transcript.whisperx[8].start 787.871
transcript.whisperx[8].end 811.251
transcript.whisperx[8].text 所以我有兩點一個在這時候法院長你的意識中意的角色是一個非常重要凡事在你一念之間你不要欺負於一人欺負就不好意思就是說我們等排這麼久你今天不處理你怎麼辦
transcript.whisperx[9].start 813.386
transcript.whisperx[9].end 839.594
transcript.whisperx[9].text 這不是這樣的一回事也不要對於議事規則解釋上你過去不要不瞭解當本席在這裡31年來我總共參加過700場的潮流協商這差不多整整兩年每天都在協商我當然瞭解這中間的過程應該是怎樣
transcript.whisperx[10].start 842.018
transcript.whisperx[10].end 868.994
transcript.whisperx[10].text 如果從吳聰恩院長、王晉民院長、蘇貞賢院長來質疑到最後劉喜倫院長坐在這個位置上大家就會很喜歡協商協商到最後大家講完了以後有人以後簽名然後表決那到院會也是要人家充分發言那院會表決的時候要怎麼幾個人發言這個都是厭阻服輸的這是民主
transcript.whisperx[11].start 870.171
transcript.whisperx[11].end 893.761
transcript.whisperx[11].text 未來四年中間,我也可以公私告訴你,也告訴副總召、黃總召未來四年你們聯手起來,我們沒有一件會贏的這是事實,因為存在時候我表決幾次,就好像非常受不了我這件事情非常淡定、了解、清楚的很
transcript.whisperx[12].start 894.961
transcript.whisperx[12].end 923.701
transcript.whisperx[12].text 所以我要講的就是說假如今天大家不依法不依照沒有承依正義的話所以我昨天臉書會講會發生史上最大嚴重的衝突為什麼我們要捍衛立法院捍衛民主黨院的存在讓國會功能能夠存在民主能夠繼續發展稅刑否則台灣的國會變成中國人大化變成香港化
transcript.whisperx[13].start 924.946
transcript.whisperx[13].end 945.833
transcript.whisperx[13].text 只要變香港話,難保台灣不會香港話嗎?這影響所及不是指國會的意思,民主的意思是台灣,我要把話講清楚,不要急好不好我這個是一個非常關鍵的這排寫台灣,這樣的情形,我在整個民主國家當中怎麼看待台灣是一個可以合作的夥伴呢?
transcript.whisperx[14].start 947.355
transcript.whisperx[14].end 970.123
transcript.whisperx[14].text 外媒不會關心嗎?自辦單位不會關心嗎?歐小昌為什麼會這麼關心?因為他還到底未來發展社會本能怎麼樣?所以我在這議案肯定講回到一個原點院長還是你原點之間那這個中間的過程我都不要講太清楚我只要講兩點就好了
transcript.whisperx[15].start 972.185
transcript.whisperx[15].end 990.567
transcript.whisperx[15].text 我怎麼這樣說要營養依法執行新法規定很清楚不存在所謂房國昌講的一個月到就要有表決我每次要跟他編輯他就走然後每次講話都講那些誰有插話誰怎麼樣講話太久就這種直接問題不敢面對真正問題來面對問題
transcript.whisperx[16].start 993.123
transcript.whisperx[16].end 1020.306
transcript.whisperx[16].text 執行刑事法規定71條之一這是國會無法 當年1993到1999年1月我曾經參與的才有國會無法 才有執行刑事法 才有立法議事規則才有立法委員行為法 才有立法委員處處法 各委員處處法是劉恩生番時代留給國會最重要的事情所以很清楚執行刑事法過去是四個月以後
transcript.whisperx[17].start 1021.673
transcript.whisperx[17].end 1046.213
transcript.whisperx[17].text 他會講話下去,四個月以後就表決那時候經過整個程序走過來,依法有正常的程序正義後來馬英九上台以後他會,那時候我們二七期的時候他在國會絕對多數,後來他把它改回一個月以後那這個法是怎麼寫
transcript.whisperx[18].start 1047.734
transcript.whisperx[18].end 1056.838
transcript.whisperx[18].text 委員會協商以後沒有結論然後一個月有表決這是定期表決這時候就回到立法院之間 68條很清楚
transcript.whisperx[19].start 1058.871
transcript.whisperx[19].end 1077.922
transcript.whisperx[19].text 要不然很清楚就是說M長功能就在這個地方你所有的潛力就有在這個地方你對國會的負責對整個國會你要當領導者這個聰明的角色你的角色就出現了為什麼呢跟老闆協商他是有爭議事項我邀請你協商一定要協商
transcript.whisperx[20].start 1079.315
transcript.whisperx[20].end 1098.344
transcript.whisperx[20].text 你要求大家來,我們一定來,過去這麼多年來,王院長或者任何院長,標籍朝野協商,我從來不會歇息就是因為用朝野協商來進行這個民主,大家在裡面能夠辯論
transcript.whisperx[21].start 1100.441
transcript.whisperx[21].end 1124.204
transcript.whisperx[21].text 但是我二零一委員回憶選舉的時候 黃國昌議員主張說我們擔任協商那個是法規定的 直播就直播 更樂意這樣直播 所以我來辯論請問黃國昌委員 你所謂委員中心主義要辯論你把這個誠信都摸索 整個國會 整個執行心事法 在委員會是怎麼樣
transcript.whisperx[22].start 1126.145
transcript.whisperx[22].end 1151.19
transcript.whisperx[22].text 在委員會是我們的被丟包甚至黃文凱委員你的版本也被丟包那只審理你們的那一路要過去當然我要主張商會一直讓他誠信不服往前走但是很困難還是照常押出去我們就知道這是副委員會所設立5月17號賴總統上台以前的國權報告
transcript.whisperx[23].start 1153.65
transcript.whisperx[23].end 1159.628
transcript.whisperx[23].text 也是一個階段的你們所謂的一個大勝利這是表象
transcript.whisperx[24].start 1161.212
transcript.whisperx[24].end 1188.194
transcript.whisperx[24].text 但是呢我們換鍾佳斌委員開了五次以後每一次都散會動議換言之立法院現在可以沒收委員會這過厲害吧哪一個委員會你開了不讓他開你就來散會甚至有一次副總裁拍桌然後也是散會國會天搖地動這個是最近的事情很清楚
transcript.whisperx[25].start 1189.4
transcript.whisperx[25].end 1199.107
transcript.whisperx[25].text 然後經過委員會草原協商那草原協商是怎麼樣呢我中間委員主持胡志堯幹事長和童韋雄書長都去討論三條總共資源新書這一大包有60條
transcript.whisperx[26].start 1207.56
transcript.whisperx[26].end 1231.068
transcript.whisperx[26].text 然後三條以後是國民黨強行出委員會的黃國昌說他不想走就走人了胡宗憲順勢說好就到院長協商請問這樣就是可以表決嗎我要請問黃國昌委員你這樣就可以表決嗎你的法律常識你是法律博士直接依法行使的
transcript.whisperx[27].start 1233.021
transcript.whisperx[27].end 1259.575
transcript.whisperx[27].text 這是很嚴肅的事情七七八六十八家車你每次在挑戰說到昨天為止你還是說要表決沒有什麼好協商的就直接表決這是第一個第二個我要講沒有程旭正義何來失日正義假如這樣可以遂行的話那以後兩黨加起來聯合起來在程旭委員黨的案子
transcript.whisperx[28].start 1261.482
transcript.whisperx[28].end 1285.852
transcript.whisperx[28].text 在議會裡面把中央法案抽出經過圖就不會看到委員會討論了你委員在幹什麼你沒有拖直播沒有辦法知道你在幹什麼一路蓋牌那到最後也不吵一聲就直接表決表決我當然知道嘛講一講次以後就停止討論就表決一路上下去
transcript.whisperx[29].start 1287.272
transcript.whisperx[29].end 1312.12
transcript.whisperx[29].text 這樣的國會是不是有存在的價值嗎?這樣的國會和中國人大不是差不多嗎?和香港人大不是差不多嗎?院長這是一個非常嚴肅的事情你的幕僚應該給你告訴事情你的幕僚不應該給你講說這可以我要請問周恩來秘書長我今天早上還在院長室被你問過
transcript.whisperx[30].start 1313.669
transcript.whisperx[30].end 1316.652
transcript.whisperx[30].text 你舉一個例子議院的院長誰搞過這樣的程序誰敢這樣搞
transcript.whisperx[31].start 1320.785
transcript.whisperx[31].end 1348.18
transcript.whisperx[31].text 沒有人敢這樣搞沒有人敢這樣搞所以我很懇切講說來 大家來朝野協商我把整段講完沒有 我把整段講完好 院長當郭文貴你講話的時候你從來不會說這樣但我也忍受沒有關係我把整段講完好不好我今天都講實情每次都做直播郭文貴你講話的時候你敢說欸欸欸 不會看到黃國昌講話你可能欸欸欸 不敢嘛
transcript.whisperx[32].start 1349.389
transcript.whisperx[32].end 1374.303
transcript.whisperx[32].text 吳世豪講話,我們這三個人講話一定是這樣,但是你對我比較客氣一點,我appreciate沒有關係,這個是很重要的一課,我必須把話講清楚沒有,我們要講完才能夠進入程序所以我已經施圖說,我們如果解決這個僵局,我只能早一點講我們今天可以當然好好談
transcript.whisperx[33].start 1375.711
transcript.whisperx[33].end 1394.924
transcript.whisperx[33].text 也就是說執辯論總統來國會做國情報告那個我們講過很多次兩次而且今天是憲法題的辯論但是當然各自而各言而治我一直講說這個憲法題字的問題你們說不是沒有關係這個當然是很清楚的憲法規定是
transcript.whisperx[34].start 1404.252
transcript.whisperx[34].end 1427.15
transcript.whisperx[34].text 行政院長是主要行政機關對立法院負責 立法院只有執行所以我試圖做這樣的大家能夠解這個局也讓立法院立下我們以後國會不會讓人家擔心是很危險的國會我們選議委來幹什麼來數人頭就好了 法案也不必審了
transcript.whisperx[35].start 1428.631
transcript.whisperx[35].end 1454.257
transcript.whisperx[35].text 這是民主的晚歌 也是國會的晚歌所以我繼續主張 今天這也很吭怯的好 假如說 針對國務卿報告的話 雖然那個要交給朝鮮一個月針對國務卿報告的話 這職員刑事法裡面有我們講過只有三條 訴條之一 訴條之二訴條之四 四條而已
transcript.whisperx[36].start 1455.197
transcript.whisperx[36].end 1471.218
transcript.whisperx[36].text 待會我們大家稍微談一下,然後簽名抄一項結論但是,待會討論要多少人十條之一,這只有三條,一條討論要多少人,發言完畢,要進行表決
transcript.whisperx[37].start 1472.804
transcript.whisperx[37].end 1488.865
transcript.whisperx[37].text 讓這個事情有一個Ending 讓國會至少在這裡 搶救國會的最後的時刻 讓國會的遮羞布引拿回來這是一個民主在懸崖的時候 最關鍵的時刻
transcript.whisperx[38].start 1490.819
transcript.whisperx[38].end 1512.545
transcript.whisperx[38].text 假如說已經要把所有今天委員排的,我們排了三天,我們所有的病毒疫情的三案都有通過,黃國昌委員提出今天開會到十二點,硬幹我會在這裡講,對不起那個衝突很大啦,那個衝突絕對很大,我們在恐嚇,這個很清楚嘛
transcript.whisperx[39].start 1513.669
transcript.whisperx[39].end 1527.069
transcript.whisperx[39].text 我們要挽救國會 要挽救民主 挽救台灣你們要一路沒有協商就要一路下去 其他都還沒協商你所謂的五八五四字 乃至於藐視國會 全部還沒協商
transcript.whisperx[40].start 1529.492
transcript.whisperx[40].end 1549.327
transcript.whisperx[40].text 雖然還沒協商的,你就抓緊,然後你就幹下去,你就表決下去這不會有衝突嗎?這衝突是為了,為了什麼?挽救國會的衝突不是為了個人,也不是為了黨團所以我很懇願的建議,總統委員,你那開會,到晚上十二點你可能要斟酌一下
transcript.whisperx[41].start 1550.171
transcript.whisperx[41].end 1568.176
transcript.whisperx[41].text 今天,我剛才跟婦女講得很清楚,其他沒有協商的部分,再任期排協商,協商以後沒有問題,總部下去,那就是表決反正未來四年中,任何時間點,差一個月,差一個禮拜,差一年,我永遠是表決輸的
transcript.whisperx[42].start 1571.014
transcript.whisperx[42].end 1579.972
transcript.whisperx[42].text 包括分析委員所在意的發動快以及煩惱高鐵你明明朝夕協商發了兩次都要談這個
transcript.whisperx[43].start 1581.573
transcript.whisperx[43].end 1603.105
transcript.whisperx[43].text 昨天談到最後的時候我們還是講說我找副委員還有您還有黃明凱吳幹事長我們在旁邊講話我說乾脆這樣啦活動派也是一樣啦我們在先人原則上這預算權是行政院的預算權是他獨享的
transcript.whisperx[44].start 1604.125
transcript.whisperx[44].end 1617.4
transcript.whisperx[44].text 不是你把 立法院沒有 議決法案 議決遺傳案 又可以配列遺傳案所以這必須 這個是新的問題所以我們把它 大家講好 把它做完也沒有關係 要表決
transcript.whisperx[45].start 1619.342
transcript.whisperx[45].end 1640.564
transcript.whisperx[45].text 黃國昌開始反對這個等到520再講那協商這麼多次怎麼沒等金老師講到520再講突然出現520再講520以後新聞會改變嗎?不可能嘛所以今天副總召以及在座的黃總召我很懇切的講要講道理就來這裡講道理
transcript.whisperx[46].start 1642.125
transcript.whisperx[46].end 1665.632
transcript.whisperx[46].text 不要等一下講一半,黑黑叫就跑掉,我知道目前為止沒有做任何人身上的攻擊這是一個非常重要的觀點上,一個極點而已,以上謝謝謝謝柯建民總召,接下來請問我們國民黨黨團有沒有包括意見稍微等一下好不好,我們交叉嘛好不好
transcript.whisperx[47].start 1672.437
transcript.whisperx[47].end 1696.359
transcript.whisperx[47].text 我們請洪孟楷署議長 請發言謝謝院長 院長剛剛我們非常有風度的聽柯建民總召講了18分鐘的歷史回顧19分鐘的歷史回顧 說實在的話還是沒有看到說今天到底有誠意坐下來好好協調我們要先請教民進黨團 是不是今天一定要耍流氓
transcript.whisperx[48].start 1697.583
transcript.whisperx[48].end 1708.181
transcript.whisperx[48].text 是不是賴清德主席下的命令要你們今天一定要來暴力衝突是不是民進黨都可以只要想怎麼做插隊都可以做
transcript.whisperx[49].start 1709.13
transcript.whisperx[49].end 1737.071
transcript.whisperx[49].text 我先說我不會像你一樣歷史回顧我只講這三天的事情禮拜三上午八點鐘我們就已經在議場前面排隊大家也都清楚我們也講得非常明確國民黨團要的是我們能夠在禮拜五的時候順利進行議案也因此我們在禮拜三上午八點鐘黨團大會之後我們就排隊在禮拜三的中午左右民眾黨團也加入排隊一直都在做排隊
transcript.whisperx[50].start 1738.112
transcript.whisperx[50].end 1754.731
transcript.whisperx[50].text 但直到今天早上6點40分民進黨黨團才多位委員過來沒有一句話直接用肢體衝突暴力想要硬來插隊我們要問這種耍流氓的行為是誰指使的誰下令的
transcript.whisperx[51].start 1756.377
transcript.whisperx[51].end 1775.916
transcript.whisperx[51].text 民主 包含耍流氓嗎?捍衛國會 包含耍流氓嗎?我們在進行任何議事 程序正義 包含耍流氓嗎?插隊式嗎?再者 今天早上 所有的衝突點 我再強調一次 我們講過
transcript.whisperx[52].start 1779.938
transcript.whisperx[52].end 1796.748
transcript.whisperx[52].text 行霹靂手段方能使菩薩心腸我們沒有主動動過一次手我們在今天早上每一次的暴力衝突全都是民進黨的委員先動手而我在這邊也要非常強力的譴責剛剛
transcript.whisperx[53].start 1802.219
transcript.whisperx[53].end 1830.448
transcript.whisperx[53].text 在國會的殿堂裡面就距離院長不到一公尺的位置民進黨級的中嘉賓委員還可以直接跳上院長台然後把我們女性的委員整個熊抱然後撲倒壓倒在地這就是你們民進黨委員的水準嗎就是你們男性委員把一個女性委員肢體接觸肢體暴力
transcript.whisperx[54].start 1832.23
transcript.whisperx[54].end 1850.139
transcript.whisperx[54].text 有辦法接受嗎?有任何一個人可以接受嗎?我請教在場的每一個人有任何一個人可以接受這樣的行為嗎?如果說今天這位女性委員是你的媽媽、你的太太、你的女兒你有辦法能夠接受嗎?剛剛柯總召一直強調七十一之一條
transcript.whisperx[55].start 1859.673
transcript.whisperx[55].end 1880.234
transcript.whisperx[55].text 他主張與法無拒我們認為職權新釋法寫得非常清楚就是一個月提出來之後可以來做議事處理昨天我們也提出來了民進黨在過去第九屆第十屆的時候也都有相關的法案包括我講到公投法
transcript.whisperx[56].start 1881.575
transcript.whisperx[56].end 1890.6
transcript.whisperx[56].text 2018年因公投綁大選讓民進黨縣市長選舉選輸之後民進黨怕影響2020年的總統大選也因此民進黨在第九屆會期2019年5月17日進覆二讀公投法脫鉤從原本的公投綁大選變成兩年頭一次
transcript.whisperx[57].start 1903.268
transcript.whisperx[57].end 1920.041
transcript.whisperx[57].text 五月十七進負二讀六月十七號直接院會三讀表決通過一個月的時間而且六月十七當時的會期還是以加開臨時會的方式為的是什麼為的就是怕民進黨怕影響到2020你們的總統大選嗎所以一個月能不能進行當然可以再者
transcript.whisperx[58].start 1930.563
transcript.whisperx[58].end 1940.814
transcript.whisperx[58].text 如果說真的 迂法有沒有拒有沒有不法迂規有沒有合乎規定不是你說了算 不是我說了算我們請
transcript.whisperx[59].start 1942.369
transcript.whisperx[59].end 1969.032
transcript.whisperx[59].text 院長指示我們一定有秘書長﹑法案助理﹑法案主任由議事人員清楚明白說明解釋我不知道他等一下怎麼解釋但我只知道不是你說了算不是我說了算議事人員講清楚之後我們就按照議事規則走所以你不要再吵我也不用再吵不用再吵是說你覺得這個不合規定我覺得這合規定議事人員講了大家照做最後
transcript.whisperx[60].start 1970.356
transcript.whisperx[60].end 1985.925
transcript.whisperx[60].text 您剛一直提到過去30年你有輸有贏過去4年我們全輸過去4年我們國民黨團在立法院全輸但我很驕傲很自豪是我沒有一次主動動手
transcript.whisperx[61].start 1990.111
transcript.whisperx[61].end 2011.246
transcript.whisperx[61].text 我明白跟你說你看著我眼睛我也看著你的眼睛很真誠的講我過去四年全書但我沒有主動動手過有動手也是被動動手所以國會要尊嚴國會要秩序就請從各黨團的山長約束自己的委員開始
transcript.whisperx[62].start 2013.415
transcript.whisperx[62].end 2038.1
transcript.whisperx[62].text 國會不會因此 中華民國不會因此 什麼人大化香港化如果在蔡英文總統要下台的時候賴清德總統下禮拜要上台的時候國會居然如同柯總召所講的 要香港化人大化你是在唱衰賴清德總統嗎?蔡英文主政之下 國會變成香港化人大化賴清德要上台前 國會變成香港化人大化
transcript.whisperx[63].start 2040.021
transcript.whisperx[63].end 2055.679
transcript.whisperx[63].text 中華民國永遠存在沒有人復合任何人我們是民意代表我是一百一十三十之一你也是一百一十三十之一我們都要為歷史負責但請不要
transcript.whisperx[64].start 2056.8
transcript.whisperx[64].end 2057.761
transcript.whisperx[64].text 謝謝紅書記長的發言接下來民眾黨團請表示意見
transcript.whisperx[65].start 2088.064
transcript.whisperx[65].end 2103.178
transcript.whisperx[65].text 院長不好意思至於對院長的尊重所以我們還是參與這次的黨團協商因為院長協商的主題是針對接下去的會議到底要怎麼處理的事情我想還是扣合著這個主題避免在討論的過程當中
transcript.whisperx[66].start 2104.859
transcript.whisperx[66].end 2129.344
transcript.whisperx[66].text 出現了太多誣衊、抹黑、指鹿為馬的言論我們就把他章程都沒有聽見那否則在這邊吵這些其他的事情只是不斷地在拖延我們整個院會應該進行所有的效率那在我發言之完在我發言完之後那我也想請院長大概跟大家宣布一下
transcript.whisperx[67].start 2130.104
transcript.whisperx[67].end 2130.284
transcript.whisperx[67].text 三個黨團論流發言
transcript.whisperx[68].start 2145.915
transcript.whisperx[68].end 2169.236
transcript.whisperx[68].text 因為院長也不會看要舉手,看得眼花繚亂有時候誰舉得快,有時候誰舉得慢有時候誰舉得久,有時候誰舉得短要院長用勢力去做這些判斷我就建立一個非常基本、文明又簡單的方式就三個黨團輪流發言至於說要有哪一位黨團幹部針對這個程序性的事項發言當然尊重
transcript.whisperx[69].start 2172.239
transcript.whisperx[69].end 2193.099
transcript.whisperx[69].text 各個黨團的意見第二點是說針對有關於民主進步黨要求院長協商剛剛柯建民總召前面那些莫名其妙的言論我說過了為了院會整個接下來議事進行的效率我都不想在這邊回應
transcript.whisperx[70].start 2195.762
transcript.whisperx[70].end 2216.318
transcript.whisperx[70].text 不過針對他所提出來他只打算要處理第15條之一以下的那幾個條文今天只處理這些條文台灣民眾黨黨團競表不同意競表不同意的理由非常的簡單也非常的清楚國會改革的法案
transcript.whisperx[71].start 2218.087
transcript.whisperx[71].end 2239.225
transcript.whisperx[71].text 國會改革的法案民主進步黨已經跳票了八年了台灣社會等得夠久了台灣社會等得夠久了建立國會天真調查制度也是當初蔡英文總統在2016年她所做出來的莊嚴承諾八年過去了我們的國會建立了國會天真調查制度嗎沒有
transcript.whisperx[72].start 2240.106
transcript.whisperx[72].end 2253.962
transcript.whisperx[72].text 沒有所以我們無法同意那最後一點有關於立法院職權行使法71條之一的規定其實之前在這個協商的會場我已經把這個問題提出來過了
transcript.whisperx[73].start 2255.664
transcript.whisperx[73].end 2280.746
transcript.whisperx[73].text 在這一次協商的時候,我相信不管是秘書長的解釋,或者是院長的裁釋對立法院職權行使法71條之一到底要怎麼樣解釋適用這件事情我相信應該有一個蠻清楚的解釋跟規則出來了更何況在我們之前非常多的潛力當中
transcript.whisperx[74].start 2282.809
transcript.whisperx[74].end 2299.41
transcript.whisperx[74].text 經過委員會的協商一個月內沒有辦法達成共識本來就可以交給院會依照一致規則來加以處理這不僅僅是立法院職權行事法71條之一的規定那也出現在我們非常多的歷史
transcript.whisperx[75].start 2300.331
transcript.whisperx[75].end 2304.252
transcript.whisperx[75].text 各位黨團幹部 我知道 等一下各位黨團幹部 我嘗試性的 剛剛三位黨團都已經發言過了那
transcript.whisperx[76].start 2328.001
transcript.whisperx[76].end 2353.376
transcript.whisperx[76].text 我想針對剛剛發言部份我們先告一個段落之後我來總結一些下面我們開會要進行的一些方式那如果...不急嘛我等我念完之後你們起碼消化思考一下你們再來發言我覺得發言的急切性還超過我所要做的這個小結論這個急切性暫時不用嘛等一下你還是有發言機會嘛
transcript.whisperx[77].start 2355.918
transcript.whisperx[77].end 2384.607
transcript.whisperx[77].text 我想三點第一點,廣泛討論的部分我建議由各黨團派稍微幾位立法委員來進行發言大概一位到三位等一下可以請大家共同議決第二,逐條討論的部分各黨團請推派一位委員來發言發言後,我們就依送案的先後依序進行各黨團版本的條文的表決
transcript.whisperx[78].start 2387.452
transcript.whisperx[78].end 2391.475
transcript.whisperx[78].text 謝謝院長剛剛試圖做出來的結論但是不好意思民主進步黨團競表不同意
transcript.whisperx[79].start 2412.668
transcript.whisperx[79].end 2436.489
transcript.whisperx[79].text 我看到我們韓院長跟江啟臣副院長身上別的這個中華民國國旗的別針坐在我們中華民國的國會上真的是百感交集我非常同意院長早上在協商我們私下談的時候院長說的話再過兩三天520新任的總統就要交接了國會要拿出什麼樣子的大禮給國人
transcript.whisperx[80].start 2439.268
transcript.whisperx[80].end 2465.968
transcript.whisperx[80].text 現在有73個外國的訪團來到臺灣有高達687位國外的訪兵正在臺灣國會在最關鍵的520之前我們拿出什麼樣子的內容形象不只給社會國人也是給世界看我們坐在這裡我們都要非常嚴肅的思考所以我非常同意院長期待您一早就說不要有衝突
transcript.whisperx[81].start 2466.829
transcript.whisperx[81].end 2466.929
transcript.whisperx[81].text 李慧琼議員
transcript.whisperx[82].start 2488.8
transcript.whisperx[82].end 2509.948
transcript.whisperx[82].text 數十年來立法院從來沒有發生過的事我再說一次要停止暴力我們都不希望發生任何人受傷的狀況我們都不希望在520之前端給國人是一個非常負面的國會形象唯一的方式就是請求院長行使院長應當行使的職權就是要把未經協商的議案
transcript.whisperx[83].start 2516.77
transcript.whisperx[83].end 2539.253
transcript.whisperx[83].text 透過協商之後才能表決這是程序的正義我當立委九年但是我年輕的時候就在立法院當助理加起來二十年的時間我很不明瞭我也是要跟院長表達一下我從來沒有看到立法院的一場內有這麼多的警察
transcript.whisperx[84].start 2540.592
transcript.whisperx[84].end 2568.453
transcript.whisperx[84].text 我今天看到好多的員警也許是要保護委員可是我從來沒有看過這麼多的警察在立法院的議場在我有限的職業的時間我也沒有看到立法院的警察每一個人身上都有一個密錄器我從來沒有看過柯總召可能經驗更多我第一次看到每一個警察配戴一個密錄器
transcript.whisperx[85].start 2569.844
transcript.whisperx[85].end 2587.933
transcript.whisperx[85].text 然後是把每個委員當作罪犯嗎?我也沒有看過早上七點鐘開門是有警察擋在門口不讓委員進場我從來沒有看過但是今天發生了
transcript.whisperx[86].start 2589.369
transcript.whisperx[86].end 2617.396
transcript.whisperx[86].text 院長說要主持我們的議事 秩序我再次強調我們都不想要有暴力可是議長 議長您早上的制止很好有委員拿著喇叭您宣讀了我們的議事規則他就應該沒收 沒入但是同樣也許院長沒有看到今天有在野黨的委員是戴著拳擊手套進場的那是要傷人的武器就是在野黨的委員還是粉紅色的
transcript.whisperx[87].start 2619.107
transcript.whisperx[87].end 2648.12
transcript.whisperx[87].text 有委員帶著布條還有旗幟類的東西剛剛在拉扯當中是要纏住委員勒住委員的所以請求院長我們要避免暴力這些不應當拿入議場的boxing的這個這個我不知道叫什麼然後這個布條要纏住人的這種都是違禁品我們要把傷害降到最低然後呢如何能夠制止暴力
transcript.whisperx[88].start 2649.249
transcript.whisperx[88].end 2675.191
transcript.whisperx[88].text 今天民主進步黨如同國民黨我們都有權力提出變更議程我們的變更議程我先講國民黨的變更議程就是優先處理國會擴權的法案一到三案第二就是國情咨文之類往後推所以就是國民黨團端出來而且等一下要進行的變更議程裡頭還是僅限列也就是說只能夠處理國民黨的
transcript.whisperx[89].start 2678.325
transcript.whisperx[89].end 2678.565
transcript.whisperx[89].text 衛華委員會衛華委員會衛華委員會衛華委員會
transcript.whisperx[90].start 2699.813
transcript.whisperx[90].end 2714.08
transcript.whisperx[90].text 再生醫療治劑管理條例也就是所謂的再生醫療雙法是我們今天第一案希望給國人這麼多的癌症病患重症病患慢性病患他們期待的最先進的再生醫療的療法
transcript.whisperx[91].start 2715.541
transcript.whisperx[91].end 2734.677
transcript.whisperx[91].text 能夠趕快上路這樣一個議案雙法是在未還委員會通過充分討論不經協商可以直接表決的但是被國民黨擋在國會擴權法案之後也就是政治性的法案優先民生救命的法案擱一邊民主進步黨議程的第二案是什麼就是也通過內政委員會充分的討論
transcript.whisperx[92].start 2741.271
transcript.whisperx[92].end 2745.554
transcript.whisperx[92].text 民進黨希望今天能夠在五二零國會端給國人最好的禮物第一案是救命的法案再生醫療雙法可以在今天
transcript.whisperx[93].start 2762.42
transcript.whisperx[93].end 2775.929
transcript.whisperx[93].text 競輸來三讀第二案就是村里長的福利以及地方助理的待遇提升的福利我想山安姐我們過去都臺北市議員我們多麼努力奮力的替議員的助理爭取了二十幾年
transcript.whisperx[94].start 2777.67
transcript.whisperx[94].end 2794.177
transcript.whisperx[94].text 這兩個都是民生議案 服國立民 沒有政治性 沒有針對性更重要的前提是 這兩個法案都是通過未還委員會跟內政委員會充分討論履行了委員會中心主義 而且都簽字 不需要協商的
transcript.whisperx[95].start 2795.194
transcript.whisperx[95].end 2801.837
transcript.whisperx[95].text 所以這樣的議程沒有辦法在tie table上面被優先處理而是國民黨的變更議程強行的要讓國會擴權法案優先處理而國會擴權法案是委員會沒有審查黨團協商沒有進行只進行了三條就散會以及韓院長主持的協商半條都還沒有開啟討論
transcript.whisperx[96].start 2820.024
transcript.whisperx[96].end 2836.698
transcript.whisperx[96].text 所以把這樣一個政治性的衝突性的沒有經過合理的程序正義連韓院長主持協商都沒有進行就要強行表決這是過去立法院從來沒有發生的我不曉得在野黨委員是不信任韓院長的協商能力嗎我對韓院長充滿著信心給韓院長機會給大家彼此一個機會我們讓
transcript.whisperx[97].start 2847.386
transcript.whisperx[97].end 2876.63
transcript.whisperx[97].text 立法院的職權行事法 刑法大家有提的都可以在協商的場域好好討論這是進行程序正義最重要的一個不可以遺漏翻轉跳過的過程黃國昌總召說一定要優先處理國會擴選法案因為民進黨八年沒有做我要呼籲要跟黃國昌總召呼籲再生醫療的雙法民間等了二三十年
transcript.whisperx[98].start 2878.902
transcript.whisperx[98].end 2881.898
transcript.whisperx[98].text 多少人﹐病患的家屬在暗夜錯氣
transcript.whisperx[99].start 2883.817
transcript.whisperx[99].end 2910.143
transcript.whisperx[99].text 等待今天沒有辦法在立法院處理就為了優先處理在野黨在意的國會擴權的法案好 我要收拾我的發言就是回應一下洪孟凱委員昨天在協商的會長我已經跟您報告說明過了不要再拿錯誤的議案來做非常讓人笑掉大牙的指涉公民投票法七個條文
transcript.whisperx[100].start 2911.463
transcript.whisperx[100].end 2917.504
transcript.whisperx[100].text 經過內政委員會的討論在2019年5月30號張宏祿召委主持過協商2019年6月17號蘇嘉全院長主持過協商所以宏孟凱委員說的公投法沒有協商一個月就表決是錯的宏孟凱說錯了宏孟凱說錯了宏孟凱說錯了
transcript.whisperx[101].start 2936.849
transcript.whisperx[101].end 2946.854
transcript.whisperx[101].text 立經張宏祿內政委員會的召委召開的協商以及蘇嘉絕院長在這個場域舉行的協商因為協商沒有共識才表決所以院長任何一個爭議性的議案必須在院長的高度調和鼎賴之下
transcript.whisperx[102].start 2956.238
transcript.whisperx[102].end 2981.617
transcript.whisperx[102].text 透過協商才能表決這是程序的正義這是國會要捍衛的底線這是院長職權神聖不可侵犯的部分這也是化解今天不要發生暴力衝突唯一的解方就是依照議事規則依照國會的慣例我們好好來做福國利民的事
transcript.whisperx[103].start 2983.514
transcript.whisperx[103].end 3005.496
transcript.whisperx[103].text 吳司業委員剛剛講警察今天在議場空前的多而且密錄器今天早上我要跟大家報告為了維護議場的安全還有委員安全事實上今天早上我把所有的警察我們諸位警的幹部都找來了我下的指令非常清楚其實在幾個月前我都下達了因為立法院
transcript.whisperx[104].start 3007.113
transcript.whisperx[104].end 3035.073
transcript.whisperx[104].text 有一些餐廳跟出入口我們嘗試去管制非常的困難所以我加派了便衣哨就是可能大家沒有注意事實上有很多我們駐夜警變成便衣哨來維護整個立法院的安全那針對今天5月17號的院會昨天晚上我們也在巡邏跟正式的員警不停的巡邏因為有一些女性的立委晚上如果在這邊
transcript.whisperx[105].start 3037.898
transcript.whisperx[105].end 3058.399
transcript.whisperx[105].text 注手的話,你要考慮到安全問題第三,今天早上我把所有駐警隊長都找來再三強調每個委員的安全跟尊嚴一定要維護但是有小小不法分子,如果要破壞我們立法院議事廳的話這時候警察同仁,一定不能夠疏失掉自己的職責
transcript.whisperx[106].start 3060.839
transcript.whisperx[106].end 3082.921
transcript.whisperx[106].text 所以你說債務事業委員剛剛形容我把這個變成一個警察國家 絕對不是的因為你看到警察那麼多 其實過去很多啦你剛剛講的太強調了 強調太多了其實過去也有 可是今天所有的警察第一個要項就是保護每個委員的安全跟尊嚴第二個 異常的次序第三 怕小小份子趁火打劫
transcript.whisperx[107].start 3083.482
transcript.whisperx[107].end 3107.177
transcript.whisperx[107].text 我特別交代,所以絕對沒有說要讓什麼委員,像你講的心生恐懼一樣你已經把它延伸到心生恐懼你這個意思就是說,從來沒看過這麼多警察帶著密錄器不,保護大家的安全,這是我當院長的職責好不好,我特別要澄清一下至於其他議案的內容討論,我們都尊重你的發言我們要在行政管理上那接下來我們請黃珊珊幹事長請發言
transcript.whisperx[108].start 3108.885
transcript.whisperx[108].end 3137.468
transcript.whisperx[108].text 好,那個謝謝院長,因為事要委員點名我,我還是要回一下,對不起我想很簡單,就是今天大家都在這裡都很清楚各黨團的立場那剛剛事要委員所說的兩個案,一個是再生醫療,一個是地方民代還有基層的福利我想這兩個案子都在上一屆的立法院躺了很久,我也不明白今天為什麼突然變成特別悠閒的法案
transcript.whisperx[109].start 3138.035
transcript.whisperx[109].end 3164.372
transcript.whisperx[109].text 如果要做其實上一屆應該是民進黨完全執政完全執政的情況下不做今天突然間變成非常優先的法案我覺得很奇怪該做的事情早就該做而且上一屆好像是都已經要表決了但是後來民進黨沒有排入議程所以我還是覺得這麼多的醫療團體這麼多的病人家屬他們其實很期待那就應該大家一起趕快把這個東西過去而不是用這個來
transcript.whisperx[110].start 3166.686
transcript.whisperx[110].end 3171.293
transcript.whisperx[110].text 來當成今天案子的藉口我覺得這是另外一回事所以這個案子
transcript.whisperx[111].start 3172.028
transcript.whisperx[111].end 3198.948
transcript.whisperx[111].text 包括國會改革是我們從大選前就提出的東西那我們一開議就提出的版本那我想民進黨團也提出了很多他們的想法跟立場今天大家都已經把所有東西不要說經不經過協商我想在媒體上也辯論很久了我覺得還是一樣如果按照議事規則該怎麼做就怎麼做那各自有各自的立場那這一屆的國會當然他因為屬性的不同但是我還是認為說如果
transcript.whisperx[112].start 3200.009
transcript.whisperx[112].end 3201.169
transcript.whisperx[112].text 謝謝黃珊珊委員 接下來我們請傅坤祺總召發言
transcript.whisperx[113].start 3229.935
transcript.whisperx[113].end 3243.999
transcript.whisperx[113].text 謝謝院長,我要特別表達民進黨的兩位代表的發言人,第一位發言18分鐘,第二位發言9分35秒我現在就重新來,我們現在開始發言
transcript.whisperx[114].start 3256.857
transcript.whisperx[114].end 3284.171
transcript.whisperx[114].text 我想我們這個會場就是要有次序我想院長多次在協商過程中一直表達我們在國會的形象起碼要有一個次序而不是漫無邊際的不斷的騷擾性的發言人身攻擊的發言抹黑式的發言而完全跟本題無關院長召集了多次的協商
transcript.whisperx[115].start 3285.236
transcript.whisperx[115].end 3298.665
transcript.whisperx[115].text 本題的部分甚至都沒有進入任何的討論其實這也算是院長您召集有協商過不管時間怎麼使用我想這以後要建成一個立法院的慣例
transcript.whisperx[116].start 3301.232
transcript.whisperx[116].end 3329.289
transcript.whisperx[116].text 時間院長召集的期間內就是這些議案你們要討論也可以你們要浪費在其他的事項其他侮辱人的事項抹黑攻擊的事項尊重在你們的權利但是你把時間用掉了以後就回歸院長已經召集協商過這個才是一個有制度的國會而不是藉由冗長耽誤所有政黨全國國人的時間來看這個不必要的猴戲
transcript.whisperx[117].start 3331.223
transcript.whisperx[117].end 3332.184
transcript.whisperx[117].text 民進黨對人民的承諾
transcript.whisperx[118].start 3360.953
transcript.whisperx[118].end 3389.08
transcript.whisperx[118].text 我們實在無法了解對人民的承諾要落實為什麼這麼困難而且這是一個超級陽光的法案而這八年來民進黨完全不會去面對他當時選舉的時候給全國國人的保證現在在野黨把他提出來以後也按照大法官五八五號解釋令都沒有涉及刑責的部分都是民事的部分
transcript.whisperx[119].start 3391.776
transcript.whisperx[119].end 3399.963
transcript.whisperx[119].text 聽證、調查、不能藐視國會權等等民間更不會有刑事的問題那政府官員有沒有涉及刑事的問題
transcript.whisperx[120].start 3401.277
transcript.whisperx[120].end 3422.973
transcript.whisperx[120].text 那是如果他有具體的偽造文書跟偽證罪那個本來就由刑法去處理而不在立法院的職權刑法修法範圍內所以這個都很明確的一個條文也符合大法官的解釋我想我們也都把條文公告了我不曉得民進黨到底在恐懼什麼不斷地強調說
transcript.whisperx[121].start 3424.614
transcript.whisperx[121].end 3446.366
transcript.whisperx[121].text 不斷地一直在強調一定要含院長協商我不了解為什麼一定要含院長協商一個院長要面對立法院千百條的法案千百件的法案國會議長哪有這麼多的時間來做協商而且委員會中心主義本來在委員會就經過緊密的討論而且委員會的討論
transcript.whisperx[122].start 3451.491
transcript.whisperx[122].end 3476.833
transcript.whisperx[122].text 是在剛好民進黨的三長都在司法委員會都共同的參與全體的討論而且從早上下午到下午五點冗長的發言也提過44次的散會決議我不曉得為什麼討論國會改革法案我們實在不懂民進黨為什麼要提44次的散會動議
transcript.whisperx[123].start 3479.025
transcript.whisperx[123].end 3500.639
transcript.whisperx[123].text 有什麼東西是見不了人為什麼不能在委員會做實質的討論而在民進黨提了44次三會動議以後接下來的朝野協商由委員會召委吳宗憲召集的協商民進黨也派了三長
transcript.whisperx[124].start 3502.563
transcript.whisperx[124].end 3526.17
transcript.whisperx[124].text 三長中間都有到場所以我們在這個過程當中我們很好奇他不斷在強調要院長來幫民進黨背書我們實在不懂法案是國民黨提的在委員會完全細密的討論民進黨不是沒有討論的時間他們三長都在現場
transcript.whisperx[125].start 3527.455
transcript.whisperx[125].end 3540.521
transcript.whisperx[125].text 而且迴避討論不敢討論通通都提上會動議提了44次歷史上都會見證所以我們到今天我們還是要強調還是要強調為什麼民進黨這麼懼怕有一個陽光的國會我還是要再一次強調在2016年民進黨
transcript.whisperx[126].start 3553.8
transcript.whisperx[126].end 3569.995
transcript.whisperx[126].text 大勝以後執政國會過半數立刻在3月25號禁覆二讀所謂普通高中國文及社會領域課綱要微調105年3月25號民進黨把它禁覆二讀105年4月29號
transcript.whisperx[127].start 3581.334
transcript.whisperx[127].end 3600.665
transcript.whisperx[127].text 實際通過變更議程未曾召集過協商進行在院會做表決 三讀通過如果民進黨有需要拿資料我可以提供給你們沒有問題再過來 剛剛公投法的事情講得很清楚我就不再贅述再過來2019年內政委員會
transcript.whisperx[128].start 3606.624
transcript.whisperx[128].end 3612.185
transcript.whisperx[128].text 所提出來的這個4月22號4月22號在審訊以後委員會審訊以後也是在5月31號就進付二讀進付三讀再過來我們要再一次表決三讀完成
transcript.whisperx[129].start 3634.946
transcript.whisperx[129].end 3660.456
transcript.whisperx[129].text 再過來2016年4月29號民進黨執政以後而且由蘇嘉全院長 擔任立法院的院長講得非常清楚在105年4月29號他講得很清楚有關議案協商一個月的爭議
transcript.whisperx[130].start 3666.035
transcript.whisperx[130].end 3691.836
transcript.whisperx[130].text 一定 一定要經過一次的協商 召集我想我們這一次的所有的這些議案的召集一次的召集之後就有運匯來處理這是蘇嘉全院長所表達的那我們一直很好奇 一直標榜
transcript.whisperx[131].start 3693.295
transcript.whisperx[131].end 3720.953
transcript.whisperx[131].text 國會形象標榜520全世界的貴賓都在臺灣但是我們很好奇執政黨今天用這種完全的暴力用干戈的手段來對付守護寸鐵的在野黨今天不只在立法院攻擊警察而且民進黨的男性立委竟然對女性用暴摔的方式來對付在野黨的女性立委
transcript.whisperx[132].start 3722.048
transcript.whisperx[132].end 3749.671
transcript.whisperx[132].text 我們完全無法想像這就是民進黨所要求的國會正義就是這個樣子沒有照你們的意識一定要照你們的意識不需要照國會的意識要照你們的意識不然的話就暴力相向這就是很奇怪這就是民進黨他們所謂的民主我覺得院長這時候要硬起來若一再的軟土深挖
transcript.whisperx[133].start 3751.084
transcript.whisperx[133].end 3751.224
transcript.whisperx[133].text 國會尊嚴會蕩然無存
transcript.whisperx[134].start 3782.503
transcript.whisperx[134].end 3782.903
transcript.whisperx[134].text 法定人數不足
transcript.whisperx[135].start 3804.537
transcript.whisperx[135].end 3826.553
transcript.whisperx[135].text 都低於他們的時間謝謝傅坤祺總召 呃 容許我發言一下大家意見目前為止還沒有溝通一致那針對推派委員發言的一節 我想請大家繼續溝通我們先大家先休息用餐都講兩個
transcript.whisperx[136].start 3827.654
transcript.whisperx[136].end 3849.415
transcript.whisperx[136].text 民進黨兩位 國民黨兩位 民眾黨兩位 我們都已經講完了 平衡了嘛 等一下再 我們還要繼續開啊我們到兩點休息 大家吃個飯休息一下 好不好 再來兩點回來嗎 民進黨您休息到兩點
transcript.whisperx[137].start 3857.925
transcript.whisperx[137].end 3865.089
transcript.whisperx[137].text 委員長您先休息,我只是簡單跟你講,你剛提那個題目,短範討論每個政黨的一到三個,然後除掉討論每個政黨的五位,對,這個很好,那你等下正式發言沒關係,休息一下,我也沒時間,乾杯吃飯
transcript.whisperx[138].start 8370.592
transcript.whisperx[138].end 8396.328
transcript.whisperx[138].text 好,謝謝各位黨團幹部,現在我們繼續開會在休息之前,民進黨第三位發言舉手的端瑞雄委員,請發言謝謝,謝謝院長還有各位協商代表我想今天早上,我們從朝野協商到現在大家彼此在講話都不好聽啦,都不好聽啦
transcript.whisperx[139].start 8398.329
transcript.whisperx[139].end 8422.609
transcript.whisperx[139].text 從國民黨今天早上一直在指控民進黨什麼暴力然後講話好像是人身攻擊其實這樣講話都不對啊今天國民黨的穿著大家愛怎麼穿大家也很清楚嘛你們也穿今天看起來就一副軍容壯盛那本來氣氛就搞得很緊張不過倒是我院長我要提出來就是說
transcript.whisperx[140].start 8423.67
transcript.whisperx[140].end 8431.822
transcript.whisperx[140].text 我們立法院你說有很多諸位警這很合理但是把他搞得肅殺真的也不好
transcript.whisperx[141].start 8433.188
transcript.whisperx[141].end 8456.475
transcript.whisperx[141].text 真的也不好 因為平常沒有密怒器 今天特別弄個密怒器沒有對不對的問題 我這氣氛真的就搞得緊張了而且也從來 不通政黨的委員在排隊的時候也不會擺兩個警察在那個地方 這真的都不好啦氣氛真的弄得太過於緊張了那今天為什麼我們一直在講說
transcript.whisperx[142].start 8458.115
transcript.whisperx[142].end 8486.413
transcript.whisperx[142].text 整個國民黨提出來的一個所謂的擴權法案為什麼我一直不同意的一個地方就是說每一個政黨會有不同的一個看法還非常非常的合理你國民黨的委員也就因為前陣子這段時間以來大家不斷的批評你你們白板板板才去修正本來是把人民聽證的部分你確實也是科與刑罰
transcript.whisperx[143].start 8488.444
transcript.whisperx[143].end 8510.972
transcript.whisperx[143].text 本來就是這樣子啊那因為民進黨就跟你講說你這個不符合比例原則啊你被對官員的部分是一年以下的有期徒刑啊你對老百姓為什麼是三年啊後來是啊國民黨也會來改啦那為什麼會改不是你自然改的欸是我們這段期間來我們不斷的在議場裡面跟你講說你這是不對的
transcript.whisperx[144].start 8512.256
transcript.whisperx[144].end 8526.571
transcript.whisperx[144].text 是這個原因改的這個大家要弄清楚那我也一直認為說到底今天的表決會怎麼樣要不要繼續進行下去我再來還原昨天昨天我記得非常清楚
transcript.whisperx[145].start 8527.932
transcript.whisperx[145].end 8546.96
transcript.whisperx[145].text 院長也拿出你的高度你就說 欸 王國才交通部長他確實人家要卸任了那這一些環島高速鐵路再請他來實在是在那個地方表態也很奇怪這個是院長的高度所以你昨天也去裁示了是不是等新的院長來了以後那這個部分大家再來做處理嘛那既然是如此了你這個
transcript.whisperx[146].start 8552.762
transcript.whisperx[146].end 8577.711
transcript.whisperx[146].text 環島高速鐵路這個部分你說今天要來做表決的話這個就讓院長難堪了這第一個那另外第二個就是說我們昨天在整個國會我們在整個國會立法委員的執政行事法裡面我一直不曉得國民黨的委員雖然是改了以後你們自己版本你自己也都沒看清楚一直在強調我們刑罰拉掉了我們只剩下民事的處罰民事哪來的處罰這我連聽我都聽不懂
transcript.whisperx[147].start 8582.762
transcript.whisperx[147].end 8585.606
transcript.whisperx[147].text 你至少你的版本裡面你要講得讓人家懂不是我跟你找茬是我根本就不知道什麼叫做民事的處罰我今天光看副總召今天談了那麼多次一直在談民事處罰那是什麼話你也幫我清澈讓人家不要管有這個東西嗎
transcript.whisperx[148].start 8600.339
transcript.whisperx[148].end 8629.11
transcript.whisperx[148].text 那是不是昨天我這樣具體的一個建議啦我話也不想講太多啦今天這個整個議事喔這個攻防是非常激烈國民黨今天對我們指控你像比如說孟凱雄你今天你剛剛你就站在這整個主席台上你一直點著我的名啊要約書啊民進黨安吶安吶不然這樣我很不喜歡去人家的人的名字每一個人每一個人的忌諱有的人被摸個頭他覺得很開心有的人被你指一下
transcript.whisperx[149].start 8631.21
transcript.whisperx[149].end 8637.757
transcript.whisperx[149].text 他都不舒服 院長每一個人的氣氛不一樣你霸佔了主席台 站在那邊你指責我 我會覺得你也真不尊重 也不是我去管理的
transcript.whisperx[150].start 8642.847
transcript.whisperx[150].end 8648.329
transcript.whisperx[150].text 我第八屆去買 第九屆 第十屆 現在第十一屆沒有哪一屆 我這世界沒有哪一屆 碰到立法院沒有衝突的狼都又有肢體衝突嘛 很合理嘛 意識攻防難免大家會有情緒嘛但是你們剛在哪 你就朝野協商就朝野協商 你就秀出什麼宗家拼去攻擊暴力怎麼樣 這對嗎
transcript.whisperx[151].start 8665.936
transcript.whisperx[151].end 8685.549
transcript.whisperx[151].text 真的是這樣子嗎?你們為什麼要截那個圖呢?是宗家兵要爬上去你們陳委員要把他推上去結果上去他就倒下去了嘛不然哪有什麼宗家兵倒在地下然後你們陳委員在上面你不覺得這畫面很怪嗎?都當到立法委員了大家都拿片段出來這樣攻擊這個我就不喜歡了你說我今天有沒有跟我們其他的國民黨委員衝突有啊 我都承認啊那你要去講說為什麼會去衝突嘛
transcript.whisperx[152].start 8695.489
transcript.whisperx[152].end 8710.86
transcript.whisperx[152].text 看到吳世瑤就講你那麼老了看到我柯建銘也講你那麼老了看到邱盈盈你也這樣攻擊我要去買7點你排前面你就走進去就好啦你怎麼你排在前面你不走進去你擋著我進去這個在搞什麼院長在這種情況之下以你當年幹國會議員難道不會衝突嗎這哪有人不會衝突
transcript.whisperx[153].start 8719.594
transcript.whisperx[153].end 8726.42
transcript.whisperx[153].text 什麼七點到了你排在前面你排在前面你就走進去嘛你排在前面是為了擋我進去?那是我害怕你喔?還是我小孩子?這是莫名其妙啦所以我認為啊我具體的建議啦我們昨天有協商過的部分表決民進黨沒有意見
transcript.whisperx[154].start 8738.81
transcript.whisperx[154].end 8759.838
transcript.whisperx[154].text 輸了我們就輸了但是沒有協商完成的你說這樣要你強行的輾壓過去噢 這個知識體大這個我看連海運長你都擔待不起沒有這樣的啊站了主席台我們也站過啊但是總是站了主席台以後還一直罵著說哎喲 你們幹嘛要協商的幹嘛這樣暴力啊你說得很奇怪你怎麼說為了協商的要氣氛好一點你們自己下來啊
transcript.whisperx[155].start 8768.902
transcript.whisperx[155].end 8772.965
transcript.whisperx[155].text 我倒是這樣建議的,大家參考看看有諧商過的,我們就輸有肢體衝突的
transcript.whisperx[156].start 8781.857
transcript.whisperx[156].end 8808.763
transcript.whisperx[156].text 要互相在控訴我沒意見但是不要用那種擷取片段這個在我看來就不夠光明磊落啦這個都不好啦我出手就出手啦意識抗爭靠那個就什麼沒辦法那個就磨砰砰啊請水水來的意識抗爭那沒有嘛你今天軍農狀勝來的捏你那眼鏡都拿下來都戴著眼鏡眼鏡捏我也都尊重啊那是你們的自由啊我講了一副你們是紳士站了主席台很說紳士然後控訴別人是暴力不通
transcript.whisperx[157].start 8814.42
transcript.whisperx[157].end 8827.313
transcript.whisperx[157].text 謝謝,四名委員你們要補充?謝謝院長,我們對院長剛才採視的就是說我們在大體討論的時候是一到三人那主條的時候是一人,我們競表同意
transcript.whisperx[158].start 8828.359
transcript.whisperx[158].end 8850.376
transcript.whisperx[158].text 那我想整個議事程序的進行我們如果是依照相關的議事規則在進行那我沒有再去用諸多的議事干擾來阻礙或者冗長的發言阻礙我們法案審查的必要所以對院長的這個提議我們這個非常的贊同那另外我想
transcript.whisperx[159].start 8852.09
transcript.whisperx[159].end 8854.23
transcript.whisperx[159].text 總是我們都依照相關的意識規則在審查這部法案
transcript.whisperx[160].start 8878.576
transcript.whisperx[160].end 8903.191
transcript.whisperx[160].text 就算最後沒有達成共識大家沒有共識但是我們都有依照相關的程序在進行所以我想大家不要再去一直對說這什麼程序沒有正義這怎麼沒有程序正義不過講到程序正義柯總長你還記得一件事嗎我們過去在地方制度法第七條有關大新竹合併這個案子
transcript.whisperx[161].start 8905.209
transcript.whisperx[161].end 8934.224
transcript.whisperx[161].text 總召提了一個版本把我們這個身隔六都的一個條件就是我們要人口數要125萬而且它要是政治教育文化的一個福爾都市化的一個市才來做一個合併但是那時候柯總召您的版本您一個人的版本有大委會去討論嗎有嗎沒有然後您是不是抽出來進福爾都
transcript.whisperx[162].start 8935.219
transcript.whisperx[162].end 8959.968
transcript.whisperx[162].text 也抽出來進夫二讀阿所以你現在跟我們講什麼程序正義這個是真的很打臉自己啦所以我想我們的法案的進行每一個黨都有自己的一個立場更何況我們國民黨在這個法案裡面我們做了那麼多的一個努力那只是你們在委員會我們在審查主條討論的時候40次的散會動議到底是誰不要去討論這個案子阿充分給你討論的機會你不要去討論
transcript.whisperx[163].start 8964.708
transcript.whisperx[163].end 8980.491
transcript.whisperx[163].text 一直講那些跟這個核心本案核心沒有相關的甚至我可以這個大膽的講當時在大體討論的時候你們對每一個條文其實你們都遼若指掌都已經討論過了啦我們不要去再自欺欺人啦
transcript.whisperx[164].start 8981.632
transcript.whisperx[164].end 9005.79
transcript.whisperx[164].text 這個大家對整個案子的條文的內容其實都已經瞭若指掌了我們的版本長什麼樣子你們都非常了解了怎麼到現在還一直講說沒有經過實質的討論真的經過充分的討論了好 以上 謝謝村長現在要不要補充 第三位發言沒有 好各位 各位黨員 黨部我特別報告一下我們現在金與發言完畢
transcript.whisperx[165].start 9008.721
transcript.whisperx[165].end 9021.836
transcript.whisperx[165].text 這樣講我要回答我現在因為大家第一輪都已經發言完畢了但是我們並沒有達成共識那這個協商我們現在大家也都
transcript.whisperx[166].start 9024.449
transcript.whisperx[166].end 9040.619
transcript.whisperx[166].text 各自言而治,大家都把自己的想法都表達出來,我們還是等一下來院會來共同決議好不好等一下等一下,謝謝大家院長你可以這樣搞吧院長,您的協商權,我們要捍衛院長的權利,這沒有時間問題
transcript.whisperx[167].start 9047.345
transcript.whisperx[167].end 9050.728
transcript.whisperx[167].text 委員會他們就印出去然後呢
transcript.whisperx[168].start 9079.579
transcript.whisperx[168].end 9085.085
transcript.whisperx[168].text 然後呢?院長真的,就在您一念之間就在一念之間
transcript.whisperx[169].start 9095.913
transcript.whisperx[169].end 9096.534
transcript.whisperx[169].text 我講環境就好了
transcript.whisperx[170].start 9111.773
transcript.whisperx[170].end 9115.294
transcript.whisperx[170].text 那這樣就結束了那我還是想問一下
transcript.whisperx[171].start 9139.093
transcript.whisperx[171].end 9139.816
transcript.whisperx[171].text 都是這樣的意思
transcript.whisperx[172].start 9144.251
transcript.whisperx[172].end 9145.071
transcript.whisperx[172].text 主席主席
transcript.whisperx[173].start 9173.557
transcript.whisperx[173].end 9193.623
transcript.whisperx[173].text 來那邊黨團協商 委員會協商 委員會有啊 牧草草有就會把牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧牧
transcript.whisperx[174].start 9210.44
transcript.whisperx[174].end 9212.521
transcript.whisperx[174].text 法定人數不足