| IVOD_ID |
15917 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15917 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2024051093 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-15T13:30:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-15T15:22:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:52:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea43dc8870a7b167e2fe8674a6c77669833be8d109af184be4d2b4af89d44453b95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-15T14:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：一、本院內政、司法及法制兩委員會報告併案審查委員高金素梅等21人及委員鄭天財SraKacaw等17人分別擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、委員盧縣一等16人擬具「地方制度法部分條文修正草案」，請審議案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:30:00 - 15:22:00 |
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響鐘 |
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主席宣告現在開始開會各位黨團代表還有行政機關代表大家午安我們今天進行的黨團協商主題是內政、司法及法制兩委員會報告併案審查委員高金素梅等21人以及委員鄭天財等17人分別擬具地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2290.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2301.025 |
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案經院會晉附二讀與相關提案必案協商之本院委員盧縣一等16人擬具《地方制度法部分條文修正草案》的黨團協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2313.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2317.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
政天財委員鍾嘉斌委員盧縣一委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2321.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2336.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
出席的官員我們來介紹一下內政部中務次長吳榮輝次長謝謝辛苦民政司代理司長鄭英宏原住民主委員會副主委鍾欣華綜合規劃處專務委員曾欣忠中央選舉委員會選務處處長余淑儀副處長王曉林科長賴忠祐 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2349.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2356.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
國家發展委員會社會發展處專門委員吳怡銘財政部政務次長阮清華國庫署署長陳柏成負稅署副署長陳慧琪主計總處公務預算處專門委員李育柔 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2376.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2377.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
法務部參事廖江憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2399.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2427.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
謝謝主席那本席這邊就是針對我們縣市議員的區議員的那個方式是希望能夠比較目前的直詳式的來進行我就不一念然後我們還有鄉鎮市民代表的部分我特別有提到如果是像潮州竹東這些有居住超過1500人應該要有民意代表的部分提出修正的說明以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2433.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2448.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
有關本日的協商會議本席具體建議因為本案在內政和司法還有法制兩委員會聯席審查的時候與會的委員對於審查會通過的條文作為都有高度的共識就是以淨富二獨的提案人盧縣一委員的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2448.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2476.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
除了第33條與審查會通過的修正有關聯性之外另外盧縣一委員有版本就是新修正新增自治線也就是他的第四條之一以及財政收支劃分法跟相關稅捐之分配與原住民地區的提案的83條之二以下的條文跟我們審查會通過僅僅只針對第33條修訂增加原住民名義代表的期期有所區別 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2477.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2492.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以為了要減少大家寶貴的時間我們集中討論焦點並且提升法案的協商效率如果大家對這個審查會通過的地質法第三十三條沒有意見的話我是覺得大家看一下現在手上也有一個 |
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2494.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2521.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
修正動議的版本大家看一下那麼如果大家看一下我們的這個修正動議的條文所以盧縣一委員所提的其餘條文我們先不予增訂或維持現行條文好不好盧委員可以嗎好謝謝您謝謝您好那我們現在就開始看一下修正動議的條文看一下就是請一下在場的委員有沒有要代表發言的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2522.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2522.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
政天財委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2533.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2559.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
好 謝謝可能因為過去這個議題上比較沒有什麼機會來內政委員會但因為自然司法法制聯席我想趁這個機會很感謝我們召委邀集這個協商那我來說明一下因為過去的爭點大部分是放在以原住民在地方的地方層級的代表或議員他的人數要怎麼去計算那我在這裡首先表達我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2561.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2582.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因為一向以來我們對於原住民的自治是完全支持成路過去有說到國中之國原住民的自治要完全尊重那因為台灣的因為歷史發展的原格我們有特別有所謂的三地鄉的設置那也因此呢我們的三地鄉又有分成 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2584.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2601.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
在我們的族群分部上呢又因為當時的憲法徵求條文有分成以前叫做3D三包、平地三包後來經過證明後叫3D原住民跟平地原住民但是事實上這些不同族群的不同類的原住民同胞他其實不是必然的住在所謂的3D或平地 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2602.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2604.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
三園平原分布居住範圍限制由於過去行政區設置只有三地鄉的行政區設置以至於居住在非三地鄉的平原同胞取得法律上特別保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2625.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2653.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
民意機關的席次可是呢同樣的山園的同胞就沒有因居住在山地鄉以外的山園同胞在法律上就漏了給他們同樣有居住地民意機關的席次那我們個人我們都支持這樣的概念那最好呢其實關於山園跟平原的區分還要繼續維持這個可以另案討論但是在屏東縣有一個特殊的情況因為屏東縣雖然已經有八個山地鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2654.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2680.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以基本上山原同胞在八個山地鄉的一個參政權是得到保障的但是相對的他們在於非山地鄉的平原的參政權也是得到保障那現在我們的修法是說要把居住在山地鄉以外山原的這個同胞的參政權也加以保障這個部分我們覺得剛剛的原則我們都是競表同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2680.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2692.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
但是現在涉及到我們原來第三十三條他在第二款吧應該是第二款第二款關於縣市議員的總額他這裡面有一個部分其實也應該一併拿來審視 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2697.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2720.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他這邊說到說在縣市人口一萬人以下是十一人二十萬人以下十九人以內四十萬人以下不能超過三十三八十萬以下四十三人一百六十萬以下不得超過五十七超過一百六十萬的不得超過六十那目前呢又講的是縣市議員當時的這樣一個人口的擬具你可以看得出來的規律性簡單講就是一萬再來就是二十萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2722.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2747.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
二十萬再翻倍就是四十萬四十萬再翻倍就是八十萬八十萬翻倍就是一百六十萬但是事實上整個台灣的人口成長到幾年前已經是生不如死了出生人口不如死亡人口了我們的人口成長已經停滯了那事實上按照這樣的一個方式除了六都之外目前彰化大概是落在八十萬以上一百六十萬以下但是呢獨獨在八十萬到四十萬之間就是從這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2749.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2749.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
韓國瑜 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2770.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2790.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
差一點點不達到八十萬都是從三十三人來計算那原來屏東縣的他現在在八十萬以上他是有四十三人那這個一算一來一往的原來的條文就差了十人所以如果依照我們原來的這樣的一個級距的規定屏東縣會是在從八十萬的級距掉到四十萬的級距當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2791.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2816.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
短少了10個人而跟其他60萬、50萬的縣市的人口的議會的規模是相當的那這樣的話恐怕比較粗略所以我這邊是希望說內政部可不可以一併我們在這個當中把這樣的人口的擬具一併做個思考因為少子化的結果排除了六都其實各縣市的人口都在往下掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2816.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2840.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那哪一天張嬅她從這個不能不要這樣說好不要特別舉特別哪個縣市的例就是說這樣的人口級距的安排是不是要從原來的這樣的一個算數級數的差距等差級數的差距或者幾何級數的差距呢我們重新來做一個調整那以避免呢像屏東縣呢因為這一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2842.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2842.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2860.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2875.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
三元的三地鄉的每鄉一席的三元的議員席次保障還有一席平原的議員席次的保障在我們55席當中原住民的議員代表佔了9席那差不多將近六分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2877.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2901.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
六分之一的人口數如果我們回推當然我們不希望以人口因為原住民的地方自治權不應該以人口規模為唯一依據這個有它的重要跟代表性但是呢這樣的情況之下長期以來在屏東地方上非原民區的這個選民他們已經強烈的感受到相對剝奪感那如果我們不去調整這個八十萬、四十萬的級距的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2901.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2926.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那未來屏東縣的縣議員我們要少掉從原來的55那我們會調到成46會調到46那這46呢再扣掉原鄉的9席變成35那所以說在未來從57到46這樣的一個墜落的過程當中呢會無形中去放大了原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2927.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2954.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
原住民民意代表的席次佔比那這會強烈的衝擊到當地的區域選民他們的認知那以至於會再推到目前我們幾位屏東縣級的原住民的委員包括盧委員包括我們的吳委員那麼我們又去主張說還要進而再去增加對於居住在非山地鄉的其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2955.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2978.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
三元的同胞的這個民意代表的保障名額會引起一個很大的反差跟誤解所以我在這裡懇請我們在思考的時候以屏東縣為例在我們同時去保障居住在非三地鄉的三元同胞的民意機關的保障名額的同時要事故的考量到不同的縣市他們在總體人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2980.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2992.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
衰減之下那麼產生的總體席次的減少的當中是不是也可以得到一併平衡的處理避免我們一方面希望保障我們這個原住民同胞的參政權卻讓非原住民同胞他們覺得他們參政的空間被壓縮這個絕對不是我們所熱見的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
3001.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
3011.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以我希望說我們委員會在協商的時候能夠一併考量到第33條這個應該是第二項的第三第一幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
3013.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
3040.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
第二款第一幕那其中的縣市的第二款第一幕的當中的縣市人口的這個部分是不是可以請內政部一併提出一個方案適當的就調整避免當我們在保障原住民同胞的參政席次的同時造成了非原住民同胞他們的感覺的相對剝奪感那這個不只是有屏東可能我知道的雲林啊張雲林這些都要一併下去涉算那不去涉算的話我們不太好去抓 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
3041.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
3043.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
十萬二十萬四十萬八十萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
3070.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
3071.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
主席吳釗偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3088.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3117.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好 蔡委你好我們各位同仁我們內政部同仁那其實我剛來聽宗教兵委員所提到的因為我們的試算的方法是不是有落差當然我們原住民我們都是非常的尊重我擔任立法委員以來主要是原住民的法案我都會全力的來支持但是支持之下因為剛才宗教兵所講的我們區域的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3118.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3118.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
請鄭天財委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3147.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3175.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
今天這個召委所綜合這個大家的意見之後所提的修正動議的條文基本上就是去保障了這個像基隆市像這個彰化縣這些有山地原住民人口都超過1500甚至2000多人的都可以規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3177.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3199.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那這樣的一個修正動議的條文基本上都已經沒有去都是額外外加了外加的就是不影響不影響7億的議員或者是代表的一個名額因為現行的地方制度法現行的現行的地方制度法他是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3199.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3227.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
在這個總額內總額內之後就會影響所以這個部分我們今天所提的修正動議條文都不會影響到7億的議員或者是代表的名額這個是一個很重要的一個部分那至於剛才宗嘉斌宗嘉斌這個所提的這個意見是非常好的意見因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3229.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3244.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
確實是臺灣少子女化少子女化除了少子女化之外就另外就是遺跡都會期了遺跡都會期然後遺跡都會期的這個就光都會期也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3245.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3245.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
內政部檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3264.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3283.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
趕快去檢討這個總額就是說7億的7億的因為整個人口數的一個增減確實是我們這個不是今天才發生的少子女化的一個這個歧視是一個不斷的一個在減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3285.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3286.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
而這次針對原住民的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3300.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3306.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
二、委員盧縣一等16人分別擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案．請審議案．請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3324.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3329.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個部分到底應該要怎麼樣的一個數字數字數字數據這應該要去內政部要去趕快的去檢討以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3337.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3366.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
好我們現在請蘇喬惠委員好謝謝主席那我想我就跟著鄭委員的後面發言我沒有要挑戰鄭委員我只是因為鄭委員的談話我想到了上一次我們在審查的過程當中其實王美惠王委員就有提出這樣子的一個問題那不曉得內政部有沒有已經要回答了因為我覺得我們今天在做這個第二次討論的時候其實就是應該要有內政部的這個資料意思就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3367.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3384.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
對,我們都支持在有原名的地方尤其是山園的地方如果他就算是非原鄉但是他就是有我們的山園的同胞族人住在那裡那我們是不是應該要給他一個席次讓他有機會發聲對,我想這是大家比較多人的共識是在這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3384.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3403.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
可是後面牽涉到數字的部分怎麼處理的部分的時候就開始有分歧的原因是我們始終沒有拿到一個標準的數字那鄭委員上一次就已經說我們其實都傾向於外加名額所以不會影響現在目前區域的對不對可是上次王美惠委員就是在這裡的時候講到啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3404.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3408.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
大家都是做這個行業的人都知道我們除了自己能夠當選的這個席次之外每一個議會裡面的組成成員原住民的席次多少席佔比多少和這個來自每個地區不一樣的成分組成最後那個數字其實會影響的是議會的生態所以到底要怎麼調整其實每個議會每個縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3432.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3444.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
只要他受到影響,那都是大事情,那個好像不是只是,我們上一次我記得上一次的結論就是說,那不是只有我們幾席立法委員坐在這裡講一講,把人家數字調一調,全國的選區選制就跟著改了。所以我們那時候是要求內政部要提出到底哪幾個縣市會受到影響,然後受影響的席次是多少,占比是多少, |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3457.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3470.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
你這個東西要拿出來我們才敢說噢好那這個東西可以出委員會嘛我記得是這樣不曉得我的印象跟大家是不是一樣我記得我們要的是這個剛好接在政委員後面講所以不是只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3471.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3471.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
韓國瑜委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3506.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3526.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
每次都會得到很多的回饋意見那就有點類似巧惠委員剛才所提的就是數字算不出來就很難具體的去告訴人家而且就算自己算得出來往往好像有時候也會被詬病說那個可能算法有誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3527.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3548.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
所以我這次又提出一個修正動議是基於我提這個版本的初衷就是要解決現在不合理的現況那什麼叫做不合理的現況就是有很多沒有山地鄉的這一些縣市他是選不出山地原住民議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3549.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3562.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那也有很多沒有山地鄉的這些地方的鄉鎮市他是選不出我們山地的代表所以我要講的初衷就是要解決現行法規這種不合理的現象但是我們還是希望能夠幫我們的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3568.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3574.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
去精算出一個數字出來好讓我們在面對未來整個社會的一個反彈的時候還是接納的時候我們能夠有所本所以我再簡單的說明那我第二款第一幕呢就是剛才中交兵委員鄭天財委員都有提到人口急劇的問題因為我有收集到非常多的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3593.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3609.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我是希望說我在這邊有修一個就是人口在八十改成七十萬人以下者不得超過四十三人就是把八改成七那為什麼會這樣子因為好幾個縣包括台東、雲林都會面臨這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3613.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3627.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
對那第二個部分就是也是在這個第一幕的最後我加一個有離島鄉且該鄉人口在兩千五百人以上者與本幕總額內應有該鄉選出之現役人名額其實這個人字是沒差跟現行一樣沒差只是說希望把它寫清楚那未來能夠有一個依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3638.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3660.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
另外在第二幕的部分原來的這個我們送委員會審查通過的這個版本已經有處理過的就是平地原住民一千五百人以上應有平地原住民選出的議員有三地原住民人口一千五百人以上有三地原住民選出的議員這個是委員會送出的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3663.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3685.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
第二要處理的是有三地鄉者應有三地原住民選出之縣議員名額其實這個也是沒差因為這個就是縣型的然後第三要真正要處理的就是無三地鄉之縣市三地原住民平地原住民均 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3686.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3709.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
未達一千五百人因我們發現還是有這種漏網之語但有山地原住民及平地原住民人口合計在一千五百人以上者應有山地原住民或平地原住民選出之一元名額因為我們盤點之後發現還是有這樣的漏網之語所以再用修正動議的方式再把它補足那再來就是第三款 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3710.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3733.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
第二幕第二幕的部分是要去處理鄉鎮市的代表所以我這邊還是有增加就是原來一樣的就是鄉鎮市有平地原住民人口在1500人以上者於前幕總額內應有平地原住民選出之鄉鎮市民代表名額然後另外就是再增加山地鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3735.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3747.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
以外之鄉鎮市有3地原住民人口在1500人以上者於前目總額內應由3地原住民選出之鄉鎮市民代表名額然後做以上的說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3749.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3776.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
好謝謝吳立華委員的說明我們現在請內政部來針對鍾嘉斌委員所疑慮的部分是不是來做一些說明那吳委員的修正動議其實跟我們現在提的修正動議是這個這個這個我們待會再來討論好不好吼那我們先針對那個鍾嘉斌委員的部分來請我們的內政部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3777.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3778.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
灰顏名鄉三地原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3797.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3809.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我們要保障他的參政權但是這個保障的另外又涉及到三十三條的這個極具的問題那就像屏東你有可能在這個下一次的這個選舉會少掉12席 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3812.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3841.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這一部分的確有檢討那個局局的這個空間了那因為如果這樣一檢的話那像台東可能下下次他會檢掉11席的這個席次那大概有這個會影響到區域的部分這一部分另外一個是這樣的影響可能會跟整個政治生態可能也會有影響也會有影響那我只針對這一部分還是還有其他要 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3842.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3844.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
主席我可以補充說明嗎?我剛剛漏掉說明齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3857.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3882.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
議員的部分我是外加那個上次跟委員會版本我一開始版本都是外加那只是因為這個鄉鎮市代表的部分我有去仔細詢問過那個內政部專業的幾個人的意見我後來才發現說原來設計不同那如果是說用外加我也支持啦只是說那個變異會變得很大所以我就看大家的意見 謝謝這個我也說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3887.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3910.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
內加跟外加,如果假設是內涵,如果假設內涵的話,保障了3D原住民內涵的話,你就有可能會減少了區域的部分。那這樣區域部分統不統一,這個有理嗎?代表,我講代表,我講代表的部分。所以內涵跟外加是不一樣,你會影響到他的氣質,所以代表,而且代表又按那個比例,人口比例來算。 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3911.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3924.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
所以可能假設你是外加的話又跟他的比例有關係又跟他有關係所以你保障除非就跟好像保障婦女名額一樣反正我內行我就保障你三體驗住院這一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3925.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3951.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
因為我們還這一部分沒有跟代表大家去談過如果因為保障了山地原住民的一千五可以選出這個代表的話那區域就一定會減少就相對會減少這個大概我提醒一下那外加的部分可能因為比例關係他也會減少席次他會減少我們跟他統計一下大概減少一到五席一到五席 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3953.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3963.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
市長這樣好不好你現在手上這資料是不是請我們議事人員去影印一下然後呢給大家看一下然後我們趁這個機會大家也討論一下休息一下好不好謝謝好謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3966.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3966.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4693.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4693.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
財政部財政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4785.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4815.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
市長市長不好意思麻煩來一下好不好你覺得這個兩個修正東西的條文齁是哪一個才哪一個比較適當好不好你來發那個發表你的意見我們現在是三年平衡不加了嘛齁不把它加在一起嘛阿比較單純的是用那個高金委員那個沒有關係用那個版本來來調比較單純因為那個你已經改了那比較清楚可以啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4818.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4833.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
剛才次長講的沒有錯這高金委員提的這個修正動議他會他的體系就是跟直轄市直轄市議員一樣所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4837.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4857.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
因為你那個部分還有總額內的問題就總額內對 一樣啊代表而已也是會影響到那個像竹東他們也會意見我剛剛有講了你要外交我也沒意見那個只是因為他的計算方式不同設計方式不同我們為了要計交的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4860.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4883.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
為了要計較的話,我們是不是先以昭偉的修正動議,看怎麼再更好,還是用這樣的方式啦。用這樣的方式,這樣還會計較啦。那這樣好,好不好。那那個昭偉,我大概就是,目前那個你們修正動議版本,目前我比較需要增加的就是那個擬具。 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4884.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4886.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
第二款第一幕因為他們都同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4905.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4905.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4937.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4939.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4971.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4997.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
因為剛才中委員他們疑慮的那個因為也很多人跟我反映所以我後來才改說我們為了解除疑慮就是已經有三立香的就是應有三立香的就應有然後另外寫無三立香的就怎麼樣這樣就可能就不會有那個他們擔心那個報多無三立香對因為我們本來就是要解決無三立香的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4998.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
5001.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
韓國三地鄉三地原住民平原居民團 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
5004.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
5024.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
你這個意思是什麼意思有山地鄉的就是有山地的選出的縣議員嘛對不對然後沒有山地鄉的山地原住民跟平地原住民都沒有打1500人然後這個豆點這個我不要了這個我放棄了因為你們的那個修正東西已經拿掉我要跟著拿掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
5034.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
5059.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我們就聚在一起齁,非常緊密的討論啦好,那因為還是,還是要讓他們可以收音啦,用他們收音啦我還是要提醒一下齁,剛剛主席,感謝主席有請內政部去算了以屏東跟台東為例好,我們先處理那個總人口的擬具一萬、十萬、二十萬、四十萬、八十萬對對對,我們幾個部分來切 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
5065.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
5093.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
第二款第一幕那我先說因為目前修正這是您的版本嘛但是修正動議當中它是分成一萬、二十萬、四十萬、八十萬、一百六十萬這是原來的擬具這個擬具都是兩倍兩倍在跳那我們以這個擬具來看的話為什麼我覺得說要先請內政部回去重新按照現在各縣市的人口的趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
5096.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
5113.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
議員 對 那算出來我就跟大家說明嘛算出來如果是按照這個擬具那會產生什麼結果那我們更改的擬具會產生什麼結果這是兩件就是說我們要做這兩個狀況的推演那我先以現在擬具普通的情況之下下一屆屏東縣的議員總數會從55席調成43席 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
5118.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
5142.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那原來五十五席當中原住民的議員原來是九席在五十五席當中佔九席佔了將近六分之一落那如果調到了四十三席原住民可能不是九席是十席因為按照我們後面的修正我們會再增加非三鄉地區的三員他如果住在 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
5143.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
5143.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
5160.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
5180.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
三元的住在飛山立鄉的也應該保障嘛那這種情況之下屏東的原住民議員會從九席再增加一席就是十席那原來的五十五席現在的限制原住民是佔了九席佔了六分之一落未來屏東會剩下四十三席原住民會變成十席也是將近四分之一會將近四分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
5180.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
5207.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那我覺得外加的精神是沒有錯因為我們要保障原住民同胞不管在什麼地方居住他都有同等的參政權但是呢這個參政權因為我們牽起自由所以我們可看到到的是剛剛政委員也講了現在不管是三原平原住在三很多在三地鄉的都會往都市集中那我以屏東來講屏東市跟潮州鎮都是非三地鄉但是這幾年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
5209.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
5219.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
原住民同胞的人口是在成長的是在成長的所以我們現在準時精神保障他們到了非三地鄉的參政權那麼三元的部分一定要再補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
5221.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
5245.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
有補充嗎?那這是對的但是呢你考量到整個屏東縣人口的消長他是下跌的總席是從55降到43可是原住民議員的比例是上升的那我是覺得我們不要忽略了大家一般民眾在認知上會一個錯覺那我們不希望為了保障原住民的平等參政權而造成了大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
5246.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
5246.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
5271.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
5291.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
現在會掉到四十幾?四十三會掉到四十三那如果不是掉到四十三那麼這個時候的原住民的保障他的佔比不會造成那麼大的懸殊的一個失落感或者是一個相對剝奪感那麼我們比較好在地方上共同去推不要忘了我們都是代表整個全中華民國的無名無數席 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
5293.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
5302.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
五十五現在是九席以後四十三席會變成十席我都贊成這個但是不要太強調那個比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
5308.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
5314.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我覺得我濃縮他的話一下啦我濃縮他的話一下我按照現在內政部給的這個人口數的話以這個現在113年4月的人口結構屏東縣113年4月的人口結構來講的話那現在的算是原住民族群3人56000加上平原是5000所以大概是6萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
5336.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
5354.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
區域區域的意思就是非原民吧73萬73萬所以是73比6對吧用人口數來講的話是73比6那現在的現在的數字是9比55嗎原住民其實是9比55 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
5358.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
5362.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那我可不可以再補充一個既然是這樣子齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
5389.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
5407.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
為什麼要不要一個人?為什麼?要去談比喻就好。為什麼?不是談感情的問題。因為我們就講立委好了。對不對?立委啊,我們有六席。比喻也很高啊。所以真的不要講。我講給大家聽。 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
5413.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
5439.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
當時226個議員的時候,原住民是80,砍一半的時候,我們沒有送砍一半,所以這個比例不要太巧妙了,所以我就不用麥克風,但是那個局勢確實是,因為少子女化我們的理由確實啊,少子女化然後移居都會起, |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
5439.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
5442.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
沒有,因為我想回答你的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
5447.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
5470.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我這樣講我也是認為不要去擴張比例但是我只是說明說我們擔心我們在地方會面對這樣的質疑所以我們希望透過擬具來緩和這樣的質疑我為了要說明一下我強調這個一個比例其實是因為民間會有這樣的質疑但是我們可以透過擬具來減緩這樣的一個比例差距的一種相對剝奪感 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
5474.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
5478.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
第二,因為歷史的嚴格,我們過去沒有對於鄉鎮市民代表的部分去處理,那現在既然縣議員的部分有處理到非山地門鄉的參政權, |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
5494.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
5522.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那當然我們在鄉鎮民事代表也會遇到類似的情況這同一個邏輯嘛那只是說我們如果要延伸來處理鄉鎮市民代表的這個原住民的參政權的保障的時候我是建議還要再區分三元跟平元嗎就是我們可不可以把它當作是一個總和的數額來算那這當然因為在先元的部分我們現在本來就有非三地鄉的平元的保障那我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
5523.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
5524.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
委員盧縣一等16人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
5545.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
5568.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
反而是要保障那個非原民的平地人住在山地鄉的反而是有保障那現在非山地鄉的原住民要怎麼去保障他的參政權是不是我們也就可以用一個比較簡單劃分的方式來處理我們處理到縣議員這一層級再往下推到鄉鎮市民代表會很複雜因為你會變成非常的零碎化 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
5568.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
5585.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以我們才會說會發生五委員說的這個這個兩邊都不到一千五的併起來好過我們就給他一席這個我支持因為你才能完整的保障到不管他是山園還是平原他在非山地鄉他要參與鄉鎮市民代表的選舉他的參政權這個我是支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
5585.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
5613.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
但是可不可以我們思考一下除了剛剛縣市人口的擬具的調整之外我們也考量到在地方民意代表的部分因為他不是中央民代地方民意代表的部分其實並沒有法律的剛性規定去分山園跟平原我們只有規定山地鄉跟非山地鄉那山地鄉也沒有規定說平原不能去住啊非山地鄉也沒有規定山園不能去住啊那我們可不可以純粹的就山地鄉已經有保障了 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
5614.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
5614.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
韓國瑜 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
5636.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
5655.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
草州鎮還好但是因為草州鎮他鄰近的都是山地鄉所以理論上他搬來的都是山園那如果我們山園單獨一個項目他一定會過關可是他的平原就不過關了因為屏東也有平原可是住在草州鎮的平原不多可是他們不能參加什麼不能參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
5656.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
5660.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
目前我有算過大概目前超過1500的那個山園的門口就是竹東鎮、埔里鎮、屏東市、潮州鎮跟內浦鄉就只有這五個地區要解決現在的代表的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
5686.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
5712.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
只有這五個地區對所以我是覺得如果你想到全國的話當然很難去去要統一我們保障保障三年這個都OK啦我想這個大家都有共識但是保障三年之後會不會影響到人家區域的這個我們要去考量剛剛我們講的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
5715.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
5720.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
因為我想大家都很有共識,我們其實只是為了要解決現況的不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
5739.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
5760.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
希望那些該有的就要選出來所以我們還去修這些文字但是我一直在聽那個中委員講所以我其實也有聽到這樣的聲音所以我就特別再加了我再重述一次我們已經解決的就是說縣市有平地原住民人口在一千五百人以上則應有平地原住民議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
5761.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5784.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
有3D原住民人口1500人應有3D原住民因緣這個我們都已經修了嘛就是讓它修出來了嘛就是連那種沒有3D箱的都可以有了嘛但是為了要避免疑慮所以我說我們是不是可以再加一個文字有3D箱者應有3D原住民選出之縣議員名額就讓那些已經像有3D箱的就是保持現況 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5787.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5787.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
委員盧縣一等16人擬具．請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5816.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5816.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5841.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5868.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
第一、第二、第二款的那個有三地鄉者應有三地原住民選出的縣議員名額然後後面再放立法委員那個三地原住民、平地原住民均未達一千五百人但有三地原住民及平地原住民人口合計在一千五百人以上者應有三地原住民或平地原住民選出的議員名額好不好把它放到這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5870.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5887.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5887.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5892.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
二、委員盧縣一等16人分別擬具:「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案．請審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5904.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5932.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
好,你核對一下,你看一下但平地原住民或山地原住民人口數未達一千五百人且原住民人口在一千五百人以上者應有原住民顯出之一言明耳一樣的意思不是,兩個加起來的意思用詞 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5936.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5936.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
軍衛達1500人 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5947.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5950.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5977.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5977.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
6016.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
6021.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
好看一下大家看一下這上面的文字這樣是最後的這個內政部內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
6036.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
6037.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
只有雲林而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
6064.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
6065.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
6089.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
6093.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
主席是不是可以齁 因為我覺得齁能不能完整的給我們看 因為我還是要強調一下齁 其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
6113.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
6136.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這是嚴格造成的歷史的嚴格造成先有保障飛山立鄉的平原現在擴及到飛山立鄉的山原可是這樣造成的結果我們的加法是層層疊疊所以我們都只有修正前面一個的不足但是總體來講系統上來講實況上來講我同意剛剛次長所說的目前如果我們按照我剛剛那個一個理念可能現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
6138.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
6139.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
蕭薇文人 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
6155.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
6181.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
好 謝謝主席也謝謝昭文真的很用心排這個案那確實大家都坐在這裡坐這麼久而且都不是開玩笑的都很認真在想這樣的問題就是要解決問題那現在看起來也融成一個版本了那我是不是可以請求我們再給內政部按照這個版本去算一次然後看看到底有哪些台灣的哪些地方哪些縣市哪些鄉鎮 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
6183.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
6196.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
本來有問題的是不是因為這個條文會被解決然後有沒有因為這個條文衍生了什麼新的問題之類之類是不是過一次過一次之後那主席你再開一次嘛又開這個委員會的這種協調也可以啊你再開一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
6200.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
6223.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那我們真的都說大家都看過了這樣子我們要過我也才比較有感這樣子我是不是覺得不然這樣我真的覺得這是很重大的事情這不是這樣講一講就我是覺得我們不要好心辦壞事啦這樣子你看你看你看你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
6228.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
6228.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
6243.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
6260.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
好 我們看一下齁 其實齁 其實這應該要有點分 分項啦就是說 有3D箱的跟無3D箱的分列為兩具啦有3D箱的因有3D原住民選出之縣議員再來換一行 不是 不是要換一行啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
6262.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
6281.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
就要分層分行分具書寫啦這一句寫完了寫吾山地鄉者那才是去講後面的山源跟平原怎麼樣兩邊都加起來為他一千五要有一個保障啦這樣才能夠把它區分開來啦我那個原來的版本所以我們做完整一點告訴我們分析給你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
6301.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
6319.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我覺得我們的文字盡量精簡一點然後就是把那個精神放進去就可以了這個精神其實就是說你要在平地地區保障山地原住民的參政權這是第一個要被保障的 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
6320.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
6320.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
還沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
6348.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
6348.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,那樣寫就對了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
6372.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
6384.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
沒有蛋了啦沒有蛋了主席就用說精神講的讓他提讓他提我們提方案啦你們提方案啦我覺得剛剛主席講的很清楚就好不好用因為我覺得法律上條例上 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
6406.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
6415.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
所以如果說吳委員不在意的話我們就請這個內政部調一個文字出來好不好最重要的一個精神啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
6418.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
6419.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
6437.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
6440.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
6455.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
6485.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
6486.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
6498.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
一定要嗎?一定要啊,因為十三條就算了要不然我們很難跟人家解釋離島的在總和離島的也是在總和在總和對好,贊成,我覺得這樣對,他已經花掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
6520.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
6521.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
6537.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
6538.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
6593.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
6594.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
6614.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
6641.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我剛講到的就是在這個平地原住民地區要保障山地原住民他的參政權的部分要被保障到然後如果在平地原住民地區在都會區裡面人口一千五以上然後平地原住民跟山地原住民都沒有達到一千五以上怎麼樣讓他們也產生一席這個代表或議員好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
6642.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
6644.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
建議內政部以今天大家的比較往前的共識的條文然後再更精進一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
6665.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
6690.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
今天已經有出來了這些然後你再看一下再從這邊的文字裡面更修訂更精簡的部分那最重要的是精神一定要保障到好不好再來就是那個擬具的部分擬具的部分我們再請內政部來提供這個更精確的數字讓我們今天協商的委員們再有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
6693.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
6693.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
6728.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
6730.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
法定人數不足 |